Empire Records with Shelli Nicole

to see it. It seems like they shot a full one. Yeah. I was kind of into like until you get to know him better. I was kind of interacts Manning's like sound. I was like, you know, I was like, you know, I I know he's he's there for the moms, but I would show up. What's the song? Say no more mona more? It's really good? I was like, you know, I could I can put that in my morning rotation, No problem. Sure, how are you going to be observing Rex Manning Day? I am going to I was gonna say,

remember when he punches a teenager? I was gonna say, I'm gonna punch a teenager. But I'm not going to do that. Remember what the protagonist of the movie also punches a teenager. You have Joe punch as a teenager. But they're like no, but it's a paternal thing. You're like, well, that does make it worse. But okay, so much happens in this movie, and yet not that much happens in the movies. To me. The main character is liv Tyler's crop top, and that is very important to me. The

true protagonists. I love it, I want it, I can't pull it off. Uh, it's the Empire Records episode of the Back Took. Yes. So this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Tests simply as a jumping off point for our discussion. Jamie, can you remind me on this bright and sunny mix Rex Manning Day the mixed Franny? Yikes, my brain is tired. Can you remind me what the Bechtel cast Nope podcast about it? It's a dark okay. The Bechtel test is

was like, Caitlin, wake up, wake up, you're dreaming. He's going great. I ate some weed brownies and now I'm in a gar eight music video. Oh. I was like, Kyla, you can't. You don't do that. I ate fruit and nuts this morning and I got like grate. I started like, I got mad at I don't sometimes when make healthy choices, I'm like, who the funk do you think you are? I was like looking at my fruit and nuts like, oh, oh,

you're really going to make a change. Get a grip. Anyways, the Bectel test is, and those internal monologues past the Bechtel test. Wow, true, Yeah, because my rage it myself is about women. So the Bechtel test is a media

metric created by alsin Bechtels, sometimes called the Bucktel Wallace test. Uh. Many different versions of this test, but the one that we use on the show requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names must speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And as you will learn in our Empire Records episode, it doesn't matter how weird or chaotic that dialogue is. So that's the Becktel test. We're covering

Empire Records today. It's been a request for quite some time, and we have an amazing guest to observe, Rex Manning Day with Oh my Gosh, I can't wait. So. She is a culture editor at Auto Straddle. She's also written for Thrillist, Bitch Media, and Vogue Magazine. She is Shelley Nicole. Welcome. Um. We were toying off Mike with introducing I mean, we're all in on it, but possibly bring you in as Shreky Nicole and just seeing how far into the episode we at the end. That is exactly what I'd like

to be referred. I will change my Twitter handle if I have to. I promise you I will like Shreky. What's your history with records? I think so Like Caitlin was talking about taking me brownies in Agua video before you mentioned the Guar video, I was just like, so, that's what kind of podcast this is. I knew it all. I wish I could do weed every time I consume,

not do Weedkit. You sound like you're in the CIA when you say stuff like that, Hello, fellow kids, want to do some weed and listen to some war on our walkman, like on the clock at work while I'm literally supposed to be like working. Is that before or after he Um low key assaults a woman by grabbing her foot and kissing at her foot. I think that was after when she was just trying to do ballet and mind her own business and he kisses her feet. Yeah, and he tries to kiss her head. Also. Yeah, it's

not a good look. Mark. It's not a good look. Mark is a disaster. I'm so excited to talk about this movie, especially just like learning about the production of this movie is so wild, and some of the results of that is you just get like bizarro disembodied shots like that that you're like, what is happening? What am I? What is the takeaway? And sometimes they're like, that was just kind of a vibes based shot that we chose. We just kind of felt like doing it, and it's

so we're gonna do it. Let's party Party. The narrative trajectory in this movie is so hard to track and fall I was getting so much whiplash. I'll save it. But Okay, Shelly, I'm sorry. Shreky, Shreky, thank you very much. Thank you. Tell us about your history, your relationship with Empire Records. Um, it literally started with Live Tyler's crap top and I'm commented, So when you said that, I was like, Yeah, that's it. I watched this movie in middle school and found it when I was in Blackbuster.

I used to go to Blackbuster with my dad. Sorry, I used to force my father to take me to Blackbuster on Friday. And I would always been like an insane amount of time, like trying to pick out one video, and it was to the point where he would eventually start waiting in the car, and then I would bang on the Blockbuster window and be like I'm ready to check out, Like that's how long it would take me, like pick a movie. But I found this movie. I go through still like spurts of like I only want

to watch movies about this specific subject. And at that time, I was obsessed with school girls. Into me that meant that anybody wearing a plaid skirt was clearly a school girl. Right,

that's incorrect. But I saw this movie like on one of the shelves, and I grabbed it because of her crop top and because of the skirt, but also I grabbed it because I recognized her from And this wasn't like two thousand when I saw it, right, I recognized her from the Aerosmith video as the other girl who was with Share because I just knew yeah, I just knew at leash was Silverstona's share Um, and I had

never really seen her in anything else. But that video is also kind of a queer route for me, so I all that, and I was just like, so, if she's in this, I don't know, maybe share might show up, but also maybe it'll be a little gay. I obviously wasn't using the word gay at that time in my life, but I thought maybe I would get a crossover. And I saw it, I rented it, and then I proceeded to rent it like maybe every week for the next two months. Instead of just asking to fucking buy movie.

You like, sunk fifty dollars into the Empire Record industrial complex. They needed the money. They lost a lot of money. They absolutely lost a lot of fucking cash. But I made up for at least within two months of Blockbuster video fees. Um and I rented it over and over. I watched it, and I just loved it because at the time, I was trying to insert myself into movies.

I've always loved films and stuff like that, but at that time in my life, I was trying to like insert myself in some way into that world of whatever movie I was watching, so it's epically teen films. And I have an obsession still to this day with movies that take place in one day, because it's easier for me to put myself inside of that world if it's just one day, Like what would I wear? Which one

of these characters would I be friends with? So like in Ferris Bueller, two hundred Cigarettes, the Breakfast Club, Mall Rats, all those movies one day and say with Empire Records, and then I just got obsessed with the storyline. And then I was like thirteen or something when I tried to like go and work at this record store in Ferndale, Michigan.

I'm from Detroit, and they were like a year thirteen, and I was like, yeah, but I've been watching this fucking movie man, and I like really want to work at a record store. And they were like, you're you can't work here. So you were like the Warren. I was absolutely Warren, and I Warren is a wild character, but he's probably like my second favorite character in the movie. But that's my connection with it, my love it to

this day. And then you wrote a wonderful piece on the film in which you discuss your connection with it. And the friendship between Gina and Corey. And yeah, well we'll very excited to get into that. We'll talk about that, but um, yeah, well we're so excited to discuss further, Jamie, what's your relationship with this movie? No history with this movie. I had not seen it before, which I don't know. I guess I am having kind of a tricky time

knowing and like, how popular is this movie. I know that it was like a flop on release and then it has become kind of a cult classic, but I don't I'm like, I don't know how many people I know have seen this movie if I'm unusual for having not seen it. There are so many famous people and it also so I hadn't seen this movie. I've got

such intense whiplash watching it. But there were parts I really enjoyed and and learning about I think I may be like learning about the production of this movie even more than I liked the movie itself, because it's just such a wild story and once you know, like basically for for listeners who are not familiar with it, it's this movie was just like hacked to death by studio executives. It was originally forty minutes longer. I guess they cut

three major characters. I have some guesses. Is it what they are that Lady Jane. I feel like I had to have had something else, Like you can just see it, like there was a really, really like good script at some point, and then they just cut out whole chunks of it. So then you get stuff like liv Tyler is addicted to pills, and it's like, there's only ten minutes left in the movie, what are you talking about, um, etcetera. I just thought it was a chaotic, weird wild ride.

I'm very excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your history with Empire Records? I also had no history. I thought I had seen this movie. I thought this is one of those movies that I like watched in college because I was like, I have to watch all these you know, cult classics and all this stuff. And I think I had just seen a bunch of similar movies, such as Reality Bites, Small Rats, High Fidelity, Dazed and Confused, maybe, like I'd seen all those and I just thought, this

is a lot of Rene's Elwigger movies. Really, But then I started watching the movie and none of it was familiar and I realized I in fact had never seen it, So, um, I don't want to be the villain of the episode.

But I do like the movie, especially from like a screenwriting standpoint, and we'll talk about how the story that unfolds, and as kind of like muddled and random and like whiplashy as it often gets, it's like not the fault of the screenwriter, because, like you said, Jamie, there's a lot of studio notes and and changes and also like post product action changes that made the from a screenwriting point of view, the story really right, which which tell

you like laid out really clearly in in your piece as well of just like how much was hacked out of this A lot of stuff went through it because I got to talk to Carol Hypening, so I got to talk to like the writer and everything about it, and it was really cool and she was telling me just like and woke get into it obviously, but like just how hacked up the movie ended up being like for the audience when it actually came out versus the cult classic when like maybe ten years later when people

like me found it and like still loved it. But it went through a lot. It went through a lot so just like watching the movie with having no nostalgia attached to it, having never seen it, watching it for the first time in two as a person in my mid thirties, I don't have quite the same attachment to it. It was rooting for Mitch, it was, it was rooting for Mitch. Was like, yeah, music Town, She's like making up a day store again. Music sucks, Tower Records me.

That's what I want. Capitalism, Yes, I do love I mean that nineties convention where they're like, capitalism is one guy exactly capitalism. It's just this one person in and he wants to sail toilets, so and he's not that bad, and You're like, what is happening? I love it. So the movie isn't necessarily for me, but there's a lot to talk about, so I'm excited to get into it. Yeah, I guess I will attempt to recap the movie good Luck. I think will be the greatest challenge of my career.

Shelley jump in. Whenever you you know the text, I refuse because I've been like listening and I've been being like, okay during the recap, shut the buck up, and I will probably chime in two to seven times. But like, other than that, I don't think this is going to be a very long recap. Is also that it's longer than you think. Oh my gosh. Yeah, but there's all these things that happened, and then it's like, well, it's never referenced again, but it didn't technically happen. It did

kind of happen. Yeah, so I'll jump in occasionally. Okay, cool, All right, here we go. So we meet Lucas played by Rory Cochrane. He is one of the employees of Empire Records, which is an indie record store in We're not sure what part of the country. He briefly chats with his colleague Gina played by Rene's Elwigger about how tonight is a big night for him because their boss, Joe is trusting Lucas to lock up, which means counting

the money dropping in to say all that stuff. And as he's doing that, Lucas notices some paperwork about a corporate buyout of Empire Records by this conglomerate music town. This is all like narrated by Lucas in this opening sequence, which is it's just one of the many bizarre things this movie does that makes me laugh. That kind of comes and goes, and there's not really any rules about it where he's like narrating it like he's fucking Hunter

s Thompson. He's like, oh, oh no, we're being bought out. And then he was like sometimes I'm like, is he talking to camera? And then sometimes people are talking to camera, but then most of the time they're not. Sometimes they're just talking to themselves. It's so confusing, right, it doesn't happen enough to make it a consistent motif, but it does.

It does happen often enough that you notice it, so that I wish it happen more because it's whenever I do, like when someone turns to camera, I'm like, that's such a goofy choice, and I always like it. It's my favorite thing, and it's even more of a thing when it's unnecessary, and then in consistent it's even better. If it's a mess. I want more of it. So anyway, clearly the store is in financial trouble because of this

like corporate buyout that's about to happen. So Lucas gets the idea to take the money that they earned that day. I think, or I don't know if it's like all the money in the safe. I'm not sure, but it's nine thou dollars. Take it to Atlantic City and gamble with it to try to earn enough to save the store Capitalism. Unfortunately, Lucas loses all of the money and then heads out of town the next morning on his motorcycle. But don't worry, he'll be He'll be right back. Um.

But the boss Joe comes into the store. He can't find the money. He's freaking out. Meanwhile, we meet the other staff as they come into work that day, a j played by Johnny Whitworth. Mark played by Ethan embry Aj is like this artsy sensitive type. Mark is like stoner doofis. We also meet Corey played by Liv Tyler. She's like little miss perfect. I'm going to go to Harvard and she's wearing that crop top. Yes, she just wanted to shout it out. It's important feminist icon blue sweater.

And then we see Gina again again. That's Renee Selwigger. She's like this sloody one quote unquote. They all come into work. They are all teenagers, question mark. We're not sure how old these people are really, except for Liv Tyler, who seems to be a senior in high school, right. I think they're like between eighteen and like twenty three four. Yeah, I think so too, because it's really only clear that it's her because she's going to hard she's going to Harvard, right. Yeah.

Other than that, I think everyone's like un think it right because it's like implied that some of them are like working at Empire Records instead of going to college or something. Don't worry, there's not going to be a talk about loans or any people in movies don't have college loans. It's just not a thing, right. But they're just like I don't know, like do I want to keep chilling out here or do I want to go to art school in Boston? Like, honestly, as someone who

did that, don't go to art school in Boston. Keep your record store job. You're wasting your fucking money and your life. Okay, don't do it. Zero at attention, would not do again, and so much debt for no fucking reason. Didn't learn a single thing. No, I um as someone who went to screenwriting school and got a screenwriting master's degree, I mean you use it every week, Caitlyn. I use it every single week, every single week. Can I tell you how much I wanted you to say that you

bring not that you bring it up a lot. You know, no bigs. I would never, I would never bring it. You're not Hanna person. But I'm so excited and hoping that you would just occasionally a little bit. There it is, and it's true. It's all true. It's all true. Okay. So we meet the staff and also that day is Rex Manning Day at the store. So a pop star named Rex Manning who kind of had his heyday in the eighties, it seems, is coming into the store to

sign autographs and promote his new album. I think they're mapping him on like Barry Manila. I was trying to is it Barry Manila? Okay, because I was like, visually he's giving Barry Manilo. And I do love that he's so furious that all of his like listeners are his age. I'm like, what did you what did you expect, sir? Leave, These mothers are paying your rent. Show some respect. I have a whole thing about his fan base in the movie,

and like what that telegraphs to the audience. Yeah, that's well, I mean it's like classic gen X movie like people over thirty should die like God, the most annoying generation. Sorry to our listeners who are remember of it. I mean whatever, our our generation takes plenty of ship. I mean maybe every generation is bad, just putting it on, wipe out the species. Done. We've had our chance and we blew it as humans. Whatever, Millennials and we have

ugly pants like, it's fine. Whatever. Our generation never figured out pants, and I stand by that. I really just don't. I think we tried like several times to like get down pants that would work on more than one body type conceptually, and we just like kept fumbling it into an interesting way. Excuse me, my boot cut flair legs from American Eagle. We're awesome. I'm wearing skinny jeans that I glued to my body and I think that they

actually look and feel really comfortable. Just like, alright, we we fucked up pants? Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay. So we established that it's Rex Manning day. Corey wants to lose her virginity to Rex Manning while he's there. We also learned that a J is secretly in love with Corey, and today is the day that he plans to tell her. We meet another employee who comes in, Deborah, played by Robin Tuney. She comes in, she shaves her head, She has a bandage on her wrist, which some of the

other staff notices. She also has a pretty antagonistic relationship with many other members of the staff, especially Corey and Gina. Yeah, she's a guy's guy. I feel that's fun of the more frustrating things about this movie, where it's like, there's there's clearly was so much more to Deb's story, our devs ory at one point, and it it just feels so obvious that so much of it went away, And it's like, I want, I want this context of why you struggle to connect with other women, because I feel

like it would have landed so much better. When she's it seems like she has issues with her mom, and I just I was like, Oh, there was a story in there, but we didn't we didn't get to see it anyways. Um. Then Lucas shows back up the guy who had taken the nine thousand dollars at the beginning of the movie. Joe is like, where's my money, and Lucas tells Joe that it is recirculating in Atlantic City, which is very funny. Then Joe is like, Okay, well

what the hell? And he considers calling the cops and pressing charges against Lucas, but he does not do that because fathers and sons. I can't do that. And then Joe explains that he had gotten together enough money to buy the store from the owner, this guy Mitch a Mr Capitalism, Mr Capitalism, and this would have allowed Joe to stop Mitch from selling the store to Music Town. But now he can't do that because this nine thou dollars is gone because apparently it costs nine only nine

thousand dollars. Like where do they live? And that's the thing, especially because he comes back so fast, like even if he gets back the next day, like where are they? But then also they're like on this like really pretty seaside, because when Mark goes out to take a break, you see that, and then when I go pick up Corey, you see all that. I don't know, but it only costs nine thousand dollars to save a record store, so

not to save, but to buy. Right, that has like beach front property, yeah, and three floors, right, so much square footage, so much square footage. It's downtown. There's three floors. It's beach front property. It has a beautiful smoke break section and a place for staff to live because Berkele lives back there. Oh wait, I didn't even realize that. Yeah, he like comes from back and so I don't know. It's a very good live work space for nine thousand dollars.

So that is so funny because I and again I'm like, I also like jen X, don't yell at me. I love you guys. It's all good. But like, I'm just like, what are you guys so upset about it costs nine thousand dollars to have a three floor house downtown, Like enjoy it? Well at last, bit like, what are you so mad about? Anyways? I don't know, man, it's all man the man. Shuck the man. The man. Mr Cavilism

is peeing on my floor like ass like all right, okay. So, because Lucas lost this nine thousand dollars, Joe has no choice but to transition the store into a music town very soon, which means that they would have to again answer to the man, they'd lose the cool indie vibe of the store, they'd have to follow all these strict rules, so no one who works at Empire Records is happy

about this, which is true. I mean I like that, like this is like all based on Tower Records and like that whole story and like saving Indian like that end of stuff. I'm like, oh, that's like very compelling and cool, and places like that truly do not exist anymore. Like Tower Records I think been out of business and

like oh five or something. Yeah, I mean it reminds me of working at like an indie alts comedy venue, which I did for several years, and like the vibe and the camaraderie with your fellow staff, and that was my favorite aspect of the movie. But um, yeah, so I get I get that. Yeah, So what's the next scene that happens? Because it's truly just like and then another scene happens so hard to keep track of, but I think it's that Lucas stops a shoplifter, Warren, who

is trying to steal a bunch of CDs. The staff shames Warren and then they make him stick around just sitting on a couch while they wait for the cops to show up. I was just like, there is this

weird like no exit vibe to that room. Like it's just kind of like Empire Records Purgatory, where it's like, if you're in trouble, you just have to sit in this room and you could leave at any time, but for whatever reason, you don't, right, yeah, yeah, because Joe is like, Lucas, you stole nine dollars from me, Well, gosh darn it, you better sit on this couch and don't you dare get up from that couch, And then Lucas just stays on the couch for like the first

half of the movie. Daddy said, so okay. So then, so the people are lining up for Rex Manning day. Rex Manning shows up with someone who might be his assistant, it might be his publicist. We're not really sure what Jane's job is. I'm convinced this is one of the characters that got super super cut down because she seems like there yeaheah, and it's sad here too, which is

justing like incredible. Who I'd like to nominate for the Eyebrow Hall of Fame to this day, Yes, yes, Like if you see her on Younger where she plays like, I don't know, the coolest dyke in the world. Um, eyebrows are still like, I'm like doing a rewatch of Younger right now. Um, but she's like incredible eyebrows. But also in nineteen Nighties, like she had beautiful nine eyebrows.

She did. Yeah, she's I It took me until her second appearance in Empire Records to be like, she's from Younger, Younger, Underrated baby, underrated show. She's so great. Yeah, that character. Like again, I mean, so many characters are full chaos, but her in particular, where she's like there and then she has a scene and then she's like I quit. But she says I quit to Joe, and I'm like, do you work for him? And then later she comes back and she's like, Okay, Joe, I want to go

on a date with you. And I was like, how old are any of these characters? I don't understand how do they know each other? I thought that they were meeting at the beginning of that our thought so too. Yeah, but apparently Empire Records is going to Empire Records in that I don't know what the funk is happening at any given point in the movie. Oh gosh, Okay, So Rex starts signing autographs. He seems very resentful that His

fan base is largely middle aged women. Mostly. Everyone who works at Empire Records thinks that Rex Manning sucks and Jane is like, oh, yeah, I guess he does suck. I quit working for him, but I'm going to tell Joe and not Rex and tell someone unrelated. Then another employee shows up Burko. He and Deborrah seem to have

some history. There's also been other scenes, you know, scattered throughout the movie of things like stuff putting on music and dancing around the store, quick conversations between various characters to establish more of their like relationship dynamic, other random things here and there. Those scenes are fun. I love the concept of Veto. That was my one of my favorite.

I was like, oh, that is such a record store, Like it's so cool and definitely something I tried to implement in drama club and in high school, except no one fucking you know what I was talking about. So I just like, I had to eat my bag of skittles and I was like, it's fine. Just because you guys don't know film doesn't mean that that has anything to do with me. But whatever, They're like, what is

Shreky talking about? Shreky, please sit down, and I was just like, you know what, in about ten years, I'm gonna have my day about this movie. So it'll be fine. But also click side note, the guy who played Burko was Live tyler stepdad at the time. Yes, oh, Coyote Shivers is his name? Yeah, of course. Okay, first of all, of course, Live Tyler. How's a stepdad named Coyote. I've never been less shocked in my life. Live Tyler's had

such a wildlife. I was gonna say, if you ever have an opportunity, you just want to go for a quick ride on Wikipedia, go to Live Tyler's Wikipedia page. It's a roller coaster. Sometimes it's like sometimes I get annoyed at nepotism stuff, and then you read Live Tyler's Wikipedia page and it's like she deserves everything she has because she's been through enough. There is so much weirdness

in that poor woman's life. And and if you want a real journey of the spirit, watch Live Tyler's Architectural Digest video because it's like she's a weird lady. Do you okay? This is taking I love a good Kismet moment. Sorry, Caitlin, just like, um, can you all shut this is my seventh and final interruption. By the way, don't limit yourself. I hate this. Was making my partner watch Architectural Digest videos.

We've been watching them all morning and it started because I was like, let's watch Little Tyler like and we've been watching them older. It's my favorite one because I want it. I want it all right. Sorry, back to the insane plot that is Empire. I don't know where we are in it, but I don't know. You love Tyler and Dakota Johnson, two weird nepotisms giving the Architectural

Digest tours of a lifetime. You're just like, oh, no one's ever told you that you're weird before because you're so beautiful and you grew up with so much money. But you're being so weird right now with Tyler. But you're fucking weird, man. Yeah, I love it. Okay. Um. The next thing that happens is Mitch, the guy who owns Empire Records, shows up to pick up yesterday's money.

Joe decides not to rat Lucas out for stealing it, and instead, Joe stuffs the like money pouch thing full of scrap paper to make it seem like it's full of cash, and then he gives that to Mitch. Then Corey insists on fixing lunch for Rex Manning because that's going to be her opportunity to seduce him, which she tries to do and he's basically like, okay, well you can suck my dick, and then she realizes like, oh no, yeah.

She feels humiliated. She runs up to the roof, where she bumps into a J who finally professes his love for her, but she is distraught and she wants to be alone, so he leaves feeling very rejected. Then Gina tries to comfort Corey about this Rex Manning thing, but Corey ends up aggressively slut shaming Gina. So then Gina decides to seduce Rex Manning and she has sex with him. While that's going on, Corey goes up to a J and says, I'm sorry I freaked out before, but I

just don't think of you like that. You're my best friend, and I'm like, that's news to me because I thought your best friend was Gina or what, like, are you friends at all? We haven't seen you talk on screen yet. I'm sure that, I was like, I'm sure that they I thought they. I feel like the movie was like and she doesn't even know I exist. But then she's like, you're my best friend. I was like, she doesn't. She just wants nothing to do with you. Very Maniloian enough

for her, apparently, I guess, but yeah, I know. And then it was like she at the I mean, whatever, things are about to get so out of control. But she's like, you're such a talented artist. And I was like, have we seen him do any art? Do we know why his art looks like what is he? Eddy good fluide some quarters to the floor called that art? We do see him like sketching some things here and there, and he don't seem to be a pretty talented artist,

so I'll allow it. But good for him. That scene did remind me of what is it when like Steve's on Cat from Stuart Little, or someone's like fresh friend, best friend, there, role, move over, every everything he's ever done. Steven'son as Cat from Stewart Little is so funny. Noble, you're my best friend? Oh my god, it's so funny. He should he could have been. He could have been in this movie. He would have fit into this world.

Alfred Molina could have played Joe, yeah, because with his name and Joe is played by Anthony Lapolio Paglia Apolia. I'm not sure. I did not know who this man was, but I did figure out halfway through that he is definitely Australian because he kept forgetting that his character wasn't Australian, where he just like it was a little thing when he was just like, I forget. He was like talking to Lucas about something and he's like, you give the

money back. You're like, whoa wait, hold on, where are we? Oh? I kept being like, I know that's not Bill Pullman, but is it Bill Pullman? Yeah? Big Bill Pullman wasn't

available vibes, I mean, Okay. So Corey has told a j she thinks of him as her best friend and that's why she's not interested in him romantically, and he's like that's bullshit and he storms off, and then we see Corey take a pill, which I think is the first time we've seen her do that, the implication being that she is like dealing with addiction or you know, drug abuse issues. So then there's a scene where the entire store starts dancing to Rex Manning's song while Rex

Manning and Gina are having sex in another room. But then Joe comes down into the store and he's like, well, enjoy this while you can, because this time next week this is gonna be a music town. He just like runs downstairs and it's like steaks and you're like, oh my god. But there there's enough stakes we need to like finish the storyline, don't start another one. And this is when he gets really angry at Lucas and punches him.

He beats up. From my screenwriting standpoint, this movie, the inciting incident happens like three minutes into the movie, which it's more standard for that to be like fifteen minutes into a feature length film, So it happens right away before there's any exposition, before we know anything about anyone,

We get the inciting incident. Then there are there's a full i would say, sixty to seventy minutes of after this conflict of compelling conflict being established of like we have to save the store, but oh no, the money is lost. What do we do to recoup that money and save the store? That conflict basically goes away for like sixty to seventy minutes, and then at the very end, which we're getting too soon. He's like, remember the movie, and I was like, no, I don't, but I'm having

so much fun being confused. Okay, so but before we get to the very end, so um Joe assaults Lucas, but their fight quickly blows over, and then everyone finds out that Gina is having sex with Rex Manning, including Corey, who feels especially betrayed. So then a J attacks Rex Manning, and then a J gets punched another another teenager or like young person getting punched by a full adult man. Then they kick Rex out of the store. Gina and

Corey get into a screaming match. Gina outs Corey's drug abuse. Corey starts trashing the store, but then her coworkers stop her. She calms down, and then Debrah provides some emotional support

to Corey. They have a nice moment together. Then several random scenes where we see Mark eating we brownies and fantasizing about being in Aguar music video, where it always just feels like sometimes this movie just does stuff where I feel like they're like, so that was pretty heavy, right, here's a here's a little palate cleanser, And I remember watching that the first time, and I actually every time I rented it, and honestly still when I watched it

to this day, I passed forward through that scene. Now a little bit, it's a little bit more blended, as like, I guess now that I do like culture writing and critiquing of films and stuff like that, but honestly, most of it is just because I hate it. It makes no sense, it doesn't need to be there, and I hate every moment of that. It's the worst shot out of everything they cut out of everything that's on the cutting room floor. The final this movie, they were like,

now that stays, don't you touch it? And I was like, okay, I guess, Well probably because they like paid guar. Oh yeah, I guess. And then they're like, well, we can't just have wasted that money, So I bet that that is it. Yeah, what a mess. I'm laughing. What a mess. So then Jane comes back. She asks Joe out for dinner and he's like, sounds great. Then the staff has a mock funeral for Deborah, during which everyone you know, divuloges some

personal things. They bond with each other, and this is also when Gina shows back up and she and Corey makeup. I love a good plot resolution via well timed eavesdrop where she just happens to walk in the room and lived Tyler was like, I miss Gina. I love her so much. She's so she's a She's the woman I can never be. And then Gina's like no, And then Gina says what her stakes were the whole time? Apparently where she walks in, she's like, I don't want to

be like my mother. You're like, who's your mother? And she's like, I want to be a singer. I was like, you do. And then one scene later she's a singer and we're like, good for her. I guess, like yeah. Um So then Warren, the kid who had tried to shoplift from the store, comes back with a gun and starts shooting the store up, but it's okay because they're blanks. It is. It turns out he just wanted to work

at the record store the whole time. What is happening like, which is like the most white teenager with a gun thing ever to to just have it be like, oh, he was just having a bad day. It's all good. Let's give him a job at the record store and that'll help, but you're just like, no, no, don't do that. It's mind boggling. But yeah, he gets taken away by the cops again sort of, but they're just like, well, the gun was filled with blanks and he's a miner,

so we can't really do anything. And then in the next scene he's back at the store working and also drinking and drinking, and even though he's like fifteen or something, yeah, he's real little like I just don't know what was happening. Like, there did reach a point where I was just like, my brain is smooth, like anything could happen. And so when it goes to like she's on pills, the store is going to close down. I love you. I don't want to be like my mom, we're doing a fake

funeral now someone shooting up the store. You're just like, yeah, okay, I guess, but a weird day. That was me watching it. I was like, yeah, okay, cool, Like when I first saw it was the tracks. I want to go work out a record store. Actually, so Floren could. He's thirteen, apparently, so why can't I Right, Yeah, who can't? Who can't get a job at this place? And you'll never get fired despite all the really wild things. Joe needs to

be daddy. Oh gosh. Okay, So Warren coming back with a gun actually comes plot relevant because then news anchors show up to report on the story. So then Mark jumps into the newscast to promote a fundraiser event that the store is going to hold that night, which I guess Mark just decided, Oh, let's do a fundraiser. So they put it together. A bunch of people show up, They have a big party. Gina Burko and some other

guy play live music. Everyone's dancing there, drinking. Uh. They raise a bunch of money, and then Mitch the owner shows up again and he's like, what is going on? And then Joe takes the money they raised and buys the store from Mitch for again ballpark of nine thousand dollars salad maybe two d seventy four dollars. I don't know, yeah, because there's not there's not nine thousand dollars in that not like bucket thing. Yeah, there's maybe a grand talk.

Maybe Buddy buys the store from Mitch. Nonetheless, and so everyone is celebrating. Corey goes to a j and screams at him and pushes him and hits him, telling him you're so talented and you need to go to art school. And he's like, okay, I'll go to art school and I'm going to go in Boston so I can be near you when you're at Harvard, and she's like awesome. And then they kiss and she goes really that they kiss, and you're like, I did I forgot that they knew

each other. Um and then and then the movie ends with everyone dancing on the roof, which is fun. So that's the story. Let's take a quick break and we will come back to discuss and we're back. Okay, what is hello? Like? What? Well? Shelly? Yeah, Shelly, kick us up? What do you what do you want to talk about? Because I'm like, I mean, here's the thing, like, as I watched this movie, like I've watched this with completely

different eyes at first. And that's why when I talk about the movie, I know every single one of its faults that it has. Like don't get me wrong, but there are certain movies that I'm not excusing some of them. A lot of the faults on this I am like, it's fine, I don't care perfect, But other ones I am like, what, like, you know, with like Corey and

Rex Manning and all that kind of stuff. But as chaotic as it is, I think it for me, I love it because again it's one day, and it makes so much sense to me appear that even the cut of it so much can happen in a day, like if we were to cut up our own one day my Friday, Like we were talking about all the craziness that I had with like breaking my computer, and then

I could all this stuff. It's a bunch of smash cuts, and this film is a bunch of essentially a bunch of small pets of stories with a really good soundtrack and a lot of it can be excused the other ones. I just kind of live in that film world when

I watch it and I'm like, everything's fine. That one gift that will Cat or whatever sitting with the flames behind him, that's me watching this movie and I'm like, it's fine, It's fine totally, And I like, so We've been dunking on the like plot of the movie pretty hard throughout the recap and stuff, but at its core, it's a movie about like a ragtag group of misfits who come together. They found a community at this store they have fairly interesting relationship dynamics among them. And that's

a very relatable story from many, many people. And that's the reason this movie has developed such a cult following. It's you know, it really speaks to anyone who might feel like an oddball or anyone who is drawn to the idea of a chosen family exactly and stuff like that. So I totally get that. I enjoyed that aspect of

the movie. And then there's also like the anti corporate we have to maintain the integrity of this cool India space, you know, screw the man down with the establishment, which in the form that it takes in this movie is a very like nineties gen X, Like that's exactly it version that of Like, you know, as long as I can work in this indie record store without the man breathing down my neck, I don't really care what else is going on in the world. I don't have I

don't have time for more pressing social issues. Yeah. I just want to listen to guns and roses man and why. And I just want to eat skittles and burn CDs, and I just want to live on this cow to carry it around with me. And I don't care about anything else that's happening in the world. But the whole my whole world is this store, this that I or wait open to midnight. Sorry, yeah, and my records open until midnight. Can I tell you how many times I answered my house phone like that, And so my dad

was like, we're done, We're finished, We're not doing this anymore. Also, I would answer my phone hello, Fawlty Towers, any show that had to pick up. I was just like, nice, yeah, weird time in the household with me anyway. But yeah, I think it was just like so nineties space, and I was always obsessed with the nineties, like you can be like born in a time but not be an

adult in that time. And I was like, that's how it is, and that's how it's gonna that's how it was, that's what I missed, and that's what it's going to be like when I'm a grown up too. So that's why I just was like, this is dope. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean it does feel so like of its time in a way that it's like kind of fun and nostalgic where I'm just like, you know, with these characters, it's it's so funny, it was what is the I always forget the name of it, the Matthew Lillard movie

about selling out and it's about the man slunk. Yeah, yes, selc Punk. I feel like it's a more self aware version of this storyline where it's like very clear by looking at like and also just like knowing how generations tend to pan out of like half of these kids are going to be like Wall Street bankers and cause

the recession. But this is their moment. Corey is going to Harvard, right, you know, Like no, yeah, it's not things are like not gonna you know, and then you know a j or is that Yeah, Like he's gonna like change to business major one semester in and they're going to be the most boring people to ever ever live. And you know whatever, no offense to business majors ecept actually I don't think I actually think offense because like what do you Yeah, you should go to art school

like me, Why did you get a master's green screenwriting? Hello? Yeah, we're the moral authority of the fucking planet. Anyway. It's it's just it's it's so nineties and I mean, but so much of like you reference us in your piece Shelley of like how it seems like this story had really good bones, and those bones were just like repeatedly like a crowbar was taken to the bones by the editors, And like I was fascinated to find out that um in the original draft of this movie, Corey was not

trying to lose her virginity at all. She was just a big fan of Rex. And I think what kind of like blew me with that too, like all the different changes that I could find. And also when I did interview Carol, I didn't I didn't want to interview her in a sense of being like, how did this end up this way? You feel me? I did, but I had so many of those questions that I wanted to ask, but she kind of just like let it out anyway and told me a lot of different things.

But what was a big part of a lot of the changes to this movie, honestly was clueless, Like there was already so many high school movies either in production and posts being made, scripts had already been bought that they were trying to like stand out in some way, and this is already a movie about a rag tag bunch of emo kids, And I don't know East Jesus Nowhere Seattle like, and they couldn't figure out what to do with it, and so they cut it up. They

tore it apart. And then when I think they tried to bring it back on was the music, Because who would watch this movie, right, the kids that think they hear certain songs first, the kids that think that they're the only one who knows like one band and things like that. But even that couldn't save it at the

box office. It had to wait years for us to find it for me and to be like, this is the most important movie of all times, so right, Yeah, Well, I'm also interested to hear more about something you talk a lot about in your piece which was published in Marie Claire entitled Old Empire Records helped Me understand my queerness, and you site the friendship between Gina and Corey you kind of like, yeah, I don't know if it was like a shipping thing necessarily, but like you drew inspiration

from that in terms of like that powerful friendship and that was sort of like the basis of what you were kind of looking for in romantic relationships. And yeah, I just I'd love to hear you speak more about that. Yeah, no, it was because like when I was watching at that time, this is like middle school, and like all of us, right, had shitty time in middle school. But I always say, like my middle school experience just by hey, it's terrible, right, And I used, I was ready to get out, But

you're in sixth grade. You have two more years left, you know, You're like, but the only way out was through movies like this and the teen movies that I would watch about high school, because I would be like, this is what's coming next for me, And this isn't only what's gonna come next to me with friends, Maybe this is what comes next to me for like romantic kind of ships to you know. But I was never really attaching. I wasn't looking for queerness in this film.

I was just looking. I loved watching movies where girls were best friends because like I didn't have really like a best friend that was just like that close, you know. And then when I started to grow up and I went to apology and stuff like that, I learned about the lesbian or queer girl trope where they're like all lesbians or queer girls like end up falling in love with their best friends. You know what I mean, whether

it's reciprocated or not. And I had never fallen in love with any friend except for one girl in like

elementary school, where I realized that I was queer. But when I was watching this specific movie, this was the first one where the two best friends had like a hell of falling out and it made me really sad because they thought they were never I thought it wasn't going to get back together, and I thought they weren't going to have a friendship anymore, which for me was breaking down my little cute world of what friendship is and what queerness could be with another girl. Because in Clueless,

they were always best friends and job breaker. They didn't like each other from me to begin with, and then like and can't hardly wait that was an under like unrequited love, but it was between assists male and then assist girl and stuff. So this was the only movie where I saw two outcasts essentially be best friends and then fall out and then come back together in a stronger way. And that's all I thought I wanted in

friendships and then eventually relationships when I grew up. So I found clearness in it, even though that wasn't a queer relationship at all, But at the heart of so many peer girl relationships is friendship. So that's how I

connected fearness to it. And that's I mean, that's what's really cool about a movie like this, where again, even if I'm like dragging it from a screenwriting point of view, like, you can still like latch onto really meaningful things like that, And clearly so many people have because of this movie is like cult fan base and everything. Yeah, I think that's just like a wonderful thing. And I'll try to

stop making fun of its lack of three X structure. No, please, don't mean the film is chaotic and crazy and unorganized and all this, But there was just so many things that I found in it, like from a screenwriting standpoint of view, from a culture critic point of view, like even if I was watching this movie and trying to take my personal feelings out of it, would I rip it apart? No, But I would not be giving it four stars on letterbox like I do now. Most of

those stars are because I loved it, you know. Also, another good thing that I saw in this movie that I connected with was a character we lost a lot of Gina with her um not Gina Um deborra. Yeah, and she was clearly like cutting right because she talks about it with like a lady bick and stuff. And at that time in my life, I was also self harming,

you know, when I was doing it. So I was seeing I saw that something I hadn't seen in a movie that had a happy ending, you know, essentially like but a happy ending that was so true to the character, like that character having that funeral and stuff. It wasn't like outlanded. She was one of the only things that kind of made sense that look a bit um. But when I saw that, I thought that was cool because I was just like, damn, she's like going through something.

She's not telling everybody about it, she's private, she's cutting her risk is messed up. But then she's like, all right, I want these girls to be best friends again, so I'm gonna put myself in my ship on the table and hope they do too. And then they did and

maybe friends again. And that there was another thing that made me be like, I don't care that this record store costs only nine thousand dollars, just be's incredible the whole I want to get into that, like Nest of relationships between the girls in this movie or the women. I don't know how old they are. I don't yeah,

uh these young adults. But the Gina Corey stuff, it's again, it's like I feel like you almost have to like headcan in your way through it a little bit, but I don't know I was able to get there and having a friendship like that that, I mean, the slut

Shaminus was very true to that time. And while I would have liked to see more like apologies of like I shouldn't have talked about you like that, Like that was me being because it's clear they're projecting onto each other in a way that it's like just talk it out, like just have a conversation. Yeah, because Corey is feeling insecure about like she thought she was ready to lose her virginity and then it's like she had this traumatic

experience and she's like I'm not. But instead of talking that out, she is projecting onto her friend who she is jealous of, and it's like, well, you have sex all the time and you're a slut. And then Redazelwager, I mean she I appreciated how how Gina was like fuck you like you can't talk to me like that.

I did too. That was a cool moment. Yeah, and then Debora I struggled with similar stuff as well, and like I wish that it's and you're giving these nuggets of like, oh, there was a real story in here at one point. There's so much there because it's like you get the smallest bit of context of because I was like, we talked about this in the show all the time, of like why are women randomly turned against

each other? Which I think in this movie it kind of comes off a little like they're randomly turned against each other because of how much is cut out, But it seems like there was enough context at one point in the final draft. Not really, but you have that one scene with Deborah and Joe where Deborah's doing Joe's taxes and like I was like, I don't order taxes. Yeah, she's literally doing the taxes in like the recording prole phone. Both thing like why can't she go to the office.

Why can't you via that room where everyone actually, yeah, that's true, you can focus on taxes. Yeah, But like Joe goes in and Joe is daddy and he's like, I'm worried about you. Are you okay? Should I call your mom? And she says like, well, I can't find my mom. Like she it's implied that she has a very very strained, possibly like abandonment related relationship with her mom, which would contextualize why she struggles to connect with other women.

But you don't ever fully get there. And that would have worked for me too. It's like if if you had just been able to gether. And then there's an implication that, like Gina has an issue with her mom too. It's only referenced once, and it seems like the screenwriter like had a plan for how these relationships were going, like and how these women were going to resolve their issues and yeah, and it's just like you, I wish we had gotten to see it. I would love to

see like a director's cut of this movie. Hell yeah, does it exist? Especially like I don't know. I think then I asked that because I was gonna go back and watch, like you know how you have the interviews and stuff, but so much kids cut out. But because I interviewed Carol through zoom, and I think I did ask that, and I think the answer to that is like yes, but what we see it probably not you

feel me. But because I think if we had gotten more story too, it would have on her it would have made sense as to why she was so helpful to her in the bathroom to Live Taylor and Bathroom, because that was so personal and so like sweet, but the way, like if you didn't really pay attention to that character, you wouldn't have been like, oh, that makes sense for her to do that. But I would like

to see how they even got that. And also her situation with Berko, like what was going on there, Like there was like half contact because she's like Debra and Burko, who I always forget Burkos even a character, because he like shows up happen wearing a wig. I don't think so. I think it's just that just really bad hair. I was like, is that what's going on on his head? Like I don't like it, but I feel like it's implied that they have some kind of like romantic history

and he's like are you okay? And she's like what do you care? You didn't care last night and then he's like, well, I don't know. And then she's like, you know, this isn't about you, But I thought about what happened last night and last week and last year, and I just what happened and we don't know, we are thinking about it too, And then she just says like,

but this is already told you. This isn't about you, and it's like okay, But also like what is the context of this relationship and like does that inform anything? And there's just like isn't enough information given there, which I feel like is kind of a dangerous thing to do, especially when you're trying to talk about suicidal ideation. The movie is handling of that felt pretty irresponsible and like

know how to handle it. And also like how they introduced her to the other two girls, like when they came to trade cash drawers and stuff like that, and she was like shocked me, shock me, shocked me. But it's just like why is she so hateful to these other two girls? Is it because they are so girly girl and she just happens to be like a punk kind of girl who just hates those kinds of girly girls or is it more than that or is that

just how they're playing that. I don't know, they put all the girls so against each other and also with like Debbie Maser's character too low Key a little bit like how the girls saw her because she was hanging out with Rex and she was it just they put everybody so against each other, but I wasn't paying attention that so much of that. I was always so focused

on Prey and Gina, like throughout all of it. And they put them against each other too though, right, It's like they eventually they started united and then they were very abruptly torn apart. And like again, I'm just like, I'm sure that there was a version of this where it made more sense, but I do I agree with what you're saying as well, Caitlin, of like, when you're dealing with a narrative about self harm, it's like you have to have all of the context there or it

becomes potentially harmful. And the cut of this movie that was released, like it's not intentionally harmful, but it could come off as like a little bit romanticizing, like old girl who doesn't fit in does this because that was how like I mean, I think we've talked about this on the show before, but like I learned how to self harm from an episode of Degrassi, which I don't think was their intention at all, but it was like that was something that was like I wouldn't have known

how to do that, but when my favorite character on a TV show started doing I was like, oh, that's something I can do. And then it became a problem immediately, like it's just you can you can would be real careful. You have to be careful. Especially Also another way they had they kind of really should have explained a little bit more, why was Live Tyler's character? So, I mean, I know they changed it obviously she went to this Oprirgina and I really but even like why was she

such a fan of this this older man? And the way that she talked about her dad too, She was like, my dad pressures me and he just wants me to like go to Harvard and he wants me to do all my work. There's twenty four usable hours and every day. The way they made her talk about the older men in her life but didn't really explain why she wants to do that, it could it made it look like it was like romantic until he was like, I don't want to make love to you. You can definitely just

stuck my dick or whatever. But I really wanted because for a second I was like, oh, that's when I was watching, and I was younger. I was like, that's kind of hot that she just like thinks this guy is so hot and she wants to do all this stuff with him. Movie frames it that way. Yeah, it frames it that way. Oh my god. The way the camera moves on in Live Tyler is a teenager in this movie, and that's exactly movements on her is really exploitative and gross. Yeah, I'm like, let this leave this

girl alone. Let's get her into the Lord of the Rings movies. Let's give her some sleeves, Let's let her live her life, Let's get it going, Let's get her out of here, Let's get her keep the crap top, but let's get her into the Lord of the Rings. Like, Yeah, it's and I would say the same thing with um. And it's so abrupt that I think that the deborah of the issue of self harm was a bigger red

flag to me. But the way that Live Tyler's character is addiction storyline is dealt with very abruptly was also. I mean, it's like that one was so clearly half big in the way it's presented in the movie that I was like, we barely had time to deal with it, but it's like she's not really offered any resolution in that, like it's you're told very abruptly she is addicted to it seems like adderall or like a speed, like some kind of stimulant speed. And then she is outed by

her friend. Another traumatic thing she has like a small like fit or like a break. She panics and she like lashes out, and then she gets a boyfriend. And I'm like, this doesn't like heterosexuality saves her or something like like what what are we gonna do about the

addiction stuff? Well, when she goes to Harvard, he's going to take care of her because he'll be really close by, so he'll definitely just take care of her and take care of everything, and she doesn't have to worry about anything, and she'll be okay because now she's in love with this boy. But her friend was the one who saved her, not saved her, but not even her friend was the one who saved her. Was another girl who helped her, who used to hate her, but then who used to

hate her. Yeah, but then we got on the rooftop and everything's fine. But also what I kind of another thing that I kind of thing was good don't, yeah, quote me. It's a podcast, you have to um, but it'll be out here forever and ever. But another thing I kind of thought that the movie kind of did a bit right was and I mean light right, was um Renai Zeliger kind of being like, yeah, I love sex, I am this girl because she didn't apologize a lot

for it. She did she should not have done that to like get back at her friend and stuff like that, but it didn't seem like she had an issue being a sexual, cool person. And I think she was of age. I think we don't know. I think I think it's implied that she's a little bit older than that. And I don't even know why I think that, but yeah, I think they just wanted to make it clear that she's at least eighteen when she was fucking like rexpanding. I think that's why they didn't have her talk a

lot about school and stuff. But I kind of did that they were just having her like not be apologetic for it. She didn't want to be like her mom, So I'm assuming that was coming from like the job aspects of it, and maybe just like it was with sex to some some of it. But she didn't seem to have an issue with it, and I kind of thought that was kind of cool a little bit, not

like Hella a lot, but it was kind of cool. Yeah, it seems that the it's far more the other characters who shame her for her have an issue with it, yeah, than than the movie itself, right, um having any issue with like her being a sexually liberated person who's interesting, right,

So yeah, that I thought that was interesting too. It's so but then it's like again the movie you can just like see the studio it's happening in the last ten minutes of the movie, because she kind of doubles back on that at the end where she like enters the funeral and it's like, no, I'm not a cool, sexually liberated girl. This is actually I'm going to be just like my mother. And we don't know what that means because we know nothing about in this family where

like that could mean anything. And so she kind of like I feel like she she was like holding her ground the whole movie of like how fucking dare you shame me? And then at the end she's like, but really, I'm just having sex because I'm afraid to be a singer and I'm like, you can be a singer who

has sex like you? Is it like this sex weird binary of like lah lah lah Like, but I did that said I did love that Live Tyler line read where it was said, like there's just like there's a few of these lines that I just they're so teen movie in a way that really warms my heart, no matter if I know what's going on or not. Where like Live Tyler is like, you're not going to be like your mother if you don't want to be like

your mother. And I'm like, oh, I wish that was true, but but what a seventeen what an eighteen year old thing to be sure of? To be like, I don't I don't want to be like my mom, so I'm not going to be like that's just not how generational

trauma works. But so off, Yeah, it's I think it's like it's it's a very messy show for a film, but I just feel like there was Maybe that's another reason why I'm so attached to it, because I feel like there's a cut where there's reasoning behind some of it, and it doesn't I think it leaves all the actual connections on the cutting room floor and I think if we had a chance to power those up and if the studio and stuff wasn't so it's scared about, oh,

here's just another teen movie with another girl like nowadays, I don't think they would have given a funk. They would have been like, there's another movie coming out that's exactly the same as this, but we're gonna put it out anyway. But they did, you know, they were just like too scared, and I bet it would have done well. It would have done well. Yeah, I really liked this. The there's like an anecdote about how the executive who like bought Empire Records because there was like which is

always excited, especially for a female screenwriter. There was like a kind of like a small bidding. More over the Empire Records original script, which I would really love to read. I want to know how this movie was supposed to go, because it was less about capitalism and virginity in the first one. It was all about like found you know,

chosen family, which I love um. But there was an executive executive who like bought it and like greenlit Empire Records was then the next day approached with the script for Clueless, and he was like I don't need Clueless. I already have a teen movie. And I'm like, oh, you fumbled so hard one and l that's so embarrassing that he's like, I don't need it. I got I have a hit on my hands, and I'm like, I

already have lived Tyler and Renee Zelwiger. I don't know who they really are yet, but I'm I'm doing this instead. I mean, I see where he was going with that, but he was wrong. He was incorrect, especially because Clueless was such a like surprise box office hit in itself. Empire Records had a ten million dollar budget and only grossed like sorry, and only gross like three hundred dollars or something like that. But it was the studio killed it.

It wasn't because people didn't want to see it. It's because the studio made it impossible for people to see because they sucked it up so hard that they then had to kill it themselves. And it's like and everyone lost as a result. Because Carrol was also telling me, like they started pulling theaters like they were just like okay, well maybe not here maybe. And then the run was also very short. It was only in theaters for like maybe a month. Weeks or something. Yeah, something like that,

and in such a small amount of theaters. You they didn't even give it a chance. They just and then yeah, they just so happened to Like later it'd be like this like big hit or whatever with like the people who really wasn't meant for but at the time, yeah they killed it. Yeah fucked. I don't like it because there is a really cool coherent movie here. It's just not the one that ends up on the screen. It's

not the one. But like there's so much potential for a movie to be about what it's about, which again is like misfits coming together as this chosen family having issues, resolving those issues, like finding ways to bond, all that stuff, all that stuff that's like very emotionally compelling and extremely relatable and human. It's just that it's so bogged down by so many weird random, like totally incongruous like scenes

here and there, and just other kind of weirdness. And I feel like characters being rewritten to make weird choices, or things like suicidality and like drug addiction not being handled well. I mean, the overall cultural emotional and eligience of the mid nineties was like not equipped to deal with this kind of stuff, but I appreciate that they were trying. They tried, and there's a lot of potential

in this premise. I mean, again from a teenagers watching this in the mid to late nineties and like finding so much to latch onto, like that is very cool and I can understand why. And I'm sure I would have if I had I seen this as a like tween and like or something like that, Like I would have had a different response. But it's just I understand that, like seeing it for the first time four days ago as a thirty five year old person living in I mean,

it's easier to criticize from that advantage point. We got to take a quick break, but we will come right back. Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I just think like on top of that, I just think it's we have so much to talk about about the relationship between the girls and then with the guys. I'm just like sometimes I forgot which guy was which I'm like,

these are all the same goofball. There's no conflict between except between like daddy and son, like that's the only real but like there's no Frick there's only universal support between these goofy boys, Like they're all just like, oh, you're fucking wild man like in a way that it's like it's goofy because they should maybe be in conflict

a little more with each other. But also it just is like such a stark contrast to like the women in this movie are constantly in conflict, only in conflict really, and then the guys are just like, yoh whatever, man like,

like it's so stark. It was just like bizarre, which is complicated because it's like the implication being women being in the same space together, well, they're obviously gonna hate each other conflict, but then it also means that those are the far more interesting and nuanced relationships in this movie, whereas like all the relationships with the men are just like who are you again? Who is this? They just want to smoke, they want to eat pizza, they bring

each other snacks like, and they don't. And that's the weird thing because the major, the biggest conflict is like he's stole nine grand from him, but like that doesn't even create conflict in the story. Yeah, it's like, what's to fight about is the fact that I want to lose my opportinity to this guy, and for some reason, we're going to fight about it on our break as this really cute little cafe, Like it's weird. Yeah, it's weird.

It's weird, and they're fighting over a disgusting creep who wants to do sexual things with a high school student, So absolutely fuck that guy. And then also, real quick, the Rex Manning fan base thing. So obviously he's resentful that only women over the age of like thirty five, who he doesn't deem to be quote unquote fuckable, like they're not sexually viable to him, they are the main demographic of his fan base, and he hates that that's

who likes his music. And then there's a scene where Jane is talking about how Rex Manning's music tested well with teen boys actually, and then Lucas says something like, oh, well, did you compare the teen boys who like Rex Manning's

music to the incidents of homosexuality among teen boys? So fucking nineties homophobic, like, and that's like, but also I feel like the movie is saying the fact that older women and gay men that's who likes this guy, and that is part of why we're not supposed to like Rex Manning as a character, and it's like, um, look, older women and gay men have a lot of disposable income and and put some risk. Good taste, Yeah, had

good tast. They're paying your rent, Like he just didn't care because I think the main point of is that they wanted us to take away was the fact that he didn't see them as buckable, which is again another trope of being like older women or whatever are no longer hot after what or something like that, and he's just like after that, even though like that is his whole fan base is literally those were that when you look at the line outside, those were the people that

showed up, and we would have under I don't think that's why I wanted more understanding of like why liv Tyler loved him so much, Like she didn't fit it. And I think we would have knew that if we would have talked about more about the stuff with her dad, because she clearly had issues with him, but we didn't. They skipped over all that. Yeah, it was weird. It was weird. It's very bizarre. This movie is just so weird. Um,

does anyone else have any other stuff? I just don't understand why Lucas didn't clearly explain to Joe or anyone else what his intentions were with taking the money, Like he could have just been like I saw that we were in trouble and I tried to save us, but oops, I lost all the money gambling. I'm so sorry. But he never says that. Every time all they provides exposition

to himself, he doesn't provide it to other characters. And he came back with a bunch of quarters instead, which just get glued to the floor for the sake of art. For art, oh gosh. But every time he tries to explain why he did what he did, it's just so like metaphorical and cryptic, and it's like your intentions were pure, you can just tell what your intentions were. You were trying to help Daddy, Like he wanted to say that, you know, but he can't. He's an agent of chaos.

Like Luke isn't such an annoying character, but I couldn't help but love him, and like his heart's in the right place, but he just like he just will not say the right thing at the right time. What a what a sweetie, what a what a weird kid? And you get a little glimpse into his past too, that I assume was originally a bigger part of the story where it sounds like, um, he was put in like

foster care. He took him in, Yeah right, he took him in, Daddy, So Daddy can't punish the kid all he took in, Yeah right, because he's like, well that I got this kid like out of a bad situation, I'm not going to put him back into one. But it's just like movie wise, it would have been nice to have that scene and had, you know, get Lucas to communicate at some point in the movie, but he just kind of never does about what's and then at the end he's like, Daddy, I'm happy for you, and

he's like thanks son. Yeah. But instead of any of that, like further context or development that we needed, instead we get a scene where Mark is dusting near a woman who's just you know, jamming out. She's closing her eyes, she was like listening to the music, and then he tries to assault her like he's just trying to kiss her, and the movie plays it off as isn't this funny and quirky and cute? Isn't that a funny thing? For Mark to do cut Mark from the movie, Like that's

the character that is most goable. Why didn't they cut Mark? They cut who? Did they cut? Three people? They didn't cut Mark? Come on, This is unrelated, but just like in a post pandemic era, not that you could even get COVID from a pair of those headphones, but I was like, oh, that's so gross that we used to do that, that we used to just record stores and yeah, it's so it's so nasty. Why God wipe us out?

Like it's just like nasty. Anyways, I think that that's my last comment is those headphones are so gross you

couldn't pay me to put them on. My last comment is at the very beginning, when Lucas goes to Atlantic City and gambles and the first time he's playing craps, right, and he doubles his money or he wins money the first time he wins, and then the like sexy lady that's next to him his like, you know, kind of cuddled up against him, and then she's like, you are sex is a thing that she says to him, You are sex, Like I don't know about that, but it's so funny. I know exactly about that. Um, yeah, so

that was amazing, and you are sex. We're all sex. We're all sex, especially Gina. Apparently that's what they wanted us especially, right, But how does she feel about it? We'll never know, never know. Does this fast back to test? Yeah, not a lot. Yeah, but like not as much as you would think I was going to say. Yeah. I think my favorite exchange is when Deborah says, hey, miss Tina America, here's a button I made for you. Don't worry. I didn't spit on it, and then Corey reads what

it says and it just says dishonesty. So she's like, dishonesty and that passes the test. There's a lot of sinister Yeah, there's a lot of sinister passes in this movie, but it does pass, which I accept. Yeah, and I didn't know that's the one I choose to like that one that looks dishadesty, and it's like, well, we passed, So we did it, ladies, we did it. Feminist win, Oh gosh. And then as far as our nipple scale on, we rate the movie based on examining it through an

intersectional feminist lens. I guess my takeaway from this is that I appreciate that so many people have been able to latch onto this movie for relatable premise of like misfits being represented on screen, finding a community, finding a chosen family, because not many movies were about that, especially in this era. So I understand why it was so appealing to people who had so little representation. That said, the movie is extremely white, It is extremely hetero, It

is extremely like middle class. Even though some of these like it suggested that a lot of the characters are struggling financially, we don't actually see any manifestations of that. It's just like because we just see them one day in a record store and we're just kind of assuming everyone's, like, everyone's fine. So it's just it only represents a very small demographic of people. It leaves a lot of people out.

It does not handle a lot of uh serious topics such as sue, subtle ideation, and addiction, does not know how to approach handling those things, executes those things not well.

But it's extremely valid for you know, the people who saw themselves represented in the movie and like, well, like you were talking about Shelley, like, even though there's there's no explicit queerness, even though you know, there's you're still able to see yourself in it and and and see parts of like what you long for in it, and like that's extremely valid. And with all of that in mind, I will give the movie two nipples. Maybe is that too many? Way? I thought you were going to go

lower than I thought I was too. Jamie's like, I got you, Okay, I love it. I do like that A lot of the most interesting relationships in the movie are among women, and a lot of the most interest arcs are afforded to the female characters. There's still a lot of tropes present there. But what are you expecting from guess? Um, Yeah, I think this is maybe too high and on I like, did I enjoy watching this movie?

From a zero to five scale, I would give this movie zero nipples, but sorry, But from a you know, is it doing some interesting things? Sure? I guess two nipples, and I'll give one two live Tyler's crop top, and I'll give one to the line of dialogue you are six. I'm gonna do something weird here, and I'm gonna give nipple rating to the actual movie and a nipple writing to the movie that I think it was going to

be prior to being released. Okay, the actual movie, I'm going to give one nipple too, because it's so messy and it's like, I there are the like seeds of so many interesting things. But because of the way the movie was edited and marketed and rewritten outside of like the writer's original vision, I feel like it does miss the mark a lot of the time, and I like totally echo I mean the nineties like extreme you know, white middle class heterosexuality, which is true of basically the

whole genre at this time. But even on top of that, like it's so it's like I see, I would say I had a five out of five nipple experience watching this movie because we were we were just like I was paying such close attention, waiting for something that makes sense, and like it was so fun to be like, huh, what he's got a gun? Like what is happening? Um,

So healing experience was incredible. I it's it's always like, you know, kind of disappointing in a way again that it's like not the writer or director's fault to see a teen movie try to approach serious issues that could have been impactful if they had been given some room to breathe and then see a kind of undercut. So I give one nipple to the movie that came out,

and I'll give that to Live Tyler's Crop Top. I'm going to give three nipples to the movie that I like think was in there, maybe even three and a half, Like if you had gotten like Debrah's you know, full backstory and like gotten to fully realize a self harm narrative that had a positive ending for the character in a teen movie. I think that that could have been a really cool, impactful storyline if it was done thoughtfully.

Sam goes for the Lift Tyler storyline. Sam goes for the sludge shaming storyline with Gina like I and um, like Carol was saying in her interview with you, Shelly, like it sounds like the Gina Corey friendship was so much more integral to the movie she wanted to make. And I would have loved to have seen that. So I'll give I'll have three and a half to the movie that I that I think it was at one point, And I'll give those nipples to you are sex, I'll

give them to the dirty headphones. I'll give them to the newscaster who's like the news is on live and I'm like, yeah, we know, uh, and I'll give my

last half to the eyebrows. Yeah. I think like with everything that you were saying about, you know, the sistness, the whiteness, everything a part of it, putting on that in and also taking all of that apart and being like, yeah, there's this, there was more here than meets the eye, or that's on the cuting room floor somewhere or in someone's basement and rating the movie that we actually got, I would definitely just give it like two stars and

or sorry to nipples letterbox, I'm sorry, how could you cut it out? Sorry? That wasn't me. Actually that was

Shreky that said stars. I would give it to nipples um and the one Nipple, of course, goes to live Tie was crap top like that will forever get one and the other one I think goes for like what it was trying to do, like everything that it was trying to do, what it could have been, all the holes in the story and stuff like that, because I think they're saying something if you can not only find the holes in the story but then be like, oh,

there's more to this. I think if your mind when you're watching it is like, instead of just being like, oh, that doesn't make sense and then throwing it aside, if instead, when you're watching a movie and you're like, wait a minute, there was something actually there and something just got sucked up, then you can be like, you can appreciate it a little bit more. So that's what my nipple rating scale is.

But in a universe where none of this happened, and I'm in middle school and I'm watching this this movie that was not meant for this, like black Girl, Midwest middle class, like Weirdo come in, I give it like five because it made me fucking happy, Like it made me happy. It made me happy, and I made memories

with it. I danced around my room to it. I would like acted out in certain scenes when I would watch at different times, like and then I got to like write about it for twenty five year anniversary and stuff and talk to the person who made it. So for that, I give it five in that world. But that's it amazing. I'm thank you for bringing up this movie because it really was like, of course fun worm hole. This is like one of my favorite chaos conversations on

the show. And sometimes truly, Yeah, come back anytime I want. And um, tell us where people can follow you on social media, read your writing, anything else you want to plug. Well, if you just type in Shreky on Twitter, you'll find you. Just type that in, you'll find me. It's totally fine. Um No, I'm mostly on Twitter at Hi Shelley, and then I'm on Instagram at a Yo Shelley. On Twitter, I just talked last year about movies and TV that I want people to watch that I think they should

be watching. Um. And on Instagram, I'm just supposed to keep pictures of myself. But yeah, and then I write culture writer at auto Straddle and I write you know, a lot of pieces there, but I also just edit a lot of really dope new and emerging writers over there too, actually black and brown fear writers. Um. And then other than that, I writed a few other places. I just anybody that wants to let me talk about in a movie and pay me for it pretty much

to do it. So I'm there. You're real good at it, Please keep doing it. Thank you, thank you. But that's a truly come back anytime. Oh dope, I love you guys. This is such a dope podcast. I remember when I found it, and I really dig it every since, and yeah, it's just dope. We're h and uh, yeah, I guess. You can follow us on social media Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. We've got our Patreon ak Matreon that

gets you to bonus episodes every single month. It's five dollars a month, and you can hear such episodes as the Stewart Little one, where Steve's on who again should be in this movie? He says you with this friends there man, some of my favorite matrons. You're like, you'd think there's nothing to talk about in Stuart Little, but there's a whole Gina Davis feminism conversation to be had. So that's that's where. If you want more chaos. Uh, you can also get our merch at t public dot

com slash v Becktel Cast. If you're so inclined, follow us on Instagram, follow us on Twitter or don't, all right or don't or do or do? Also give us five nipples on Apple podcasts or whatever. Oh my gosh. Yeah, because because people were getting really mad about the Zootopia hive came for our comments section on Apple Podcasts. If you could help out there that would actually rock because I didn't realize how much people love um animal cops anyways.

All right, well that concludes rex spanning day on the Bechtel cast Let's close up. It's midnight, so we gotta go and for the fundraise their bye bye bye