Eight Crazy Nights with Alex Danton-Klein

On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zeph and Bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

How is it?

It's like it's like Hi, I'm Jamie, him Jamie, and then like hi, I'm Ji, Like how do you There's so many scenes that are like three different out of Sandler voices, and.

They're all annoying their way.

Well, yes comes with the territory, Yes, indeed, and meanwhile bringing New Hampshire into like, leave New England out of this, Leave New England. I have so many thoughts I leave New England.

Out of this. I was.

I was mad they called it Dukesbury. I think that they were I Alex, let me know what you think. Sorry, we're just gonna the episode started. They're like I thought they were like making a weird reference to Tuksbury, which is not in New Hampshire. My dad used to work at a mental hospital in Tooks, so I was like, you leave ticks Burry out of it.

I don't know.

I actually spent a long time googling what potential town this could be in New Hampshire, because I was like, so, I'm obviously we're skipping. We'll tup back to the introductions later. I am a Jewish person. I grew up in New York City, which obviously has a very large portion of Jews are there, like many many people are Jewish there, and if you're not Jewish, you obviously.

Know many Jews. So it's just like infused in the culture of New York.

I'm a fourth or fourth generation Brooklyn Night so hardcore like Brooklyn Jewish history here. And then I moved to New England around two thousand and eight, so I have the.

Jewish experience in New York.

And then also this like cultural whiplash of being in New England and being Jewish in New England, which is really different than being Jewish in New York. So the whole time watching this movie, I spent a lot of time googling life but what town could this be?

Though?

Like there aren't enough Jewish, like what town in New Hampshire? Like it's I have a whole list of notes, It's just not true.

Like like I thought it was such a weird place to set it. Yeah, I mean, and they made it sound like there's a very small Jewish population in this town. But I'm like, why are we setting it there, because then Hanaka doesn't really happen, Like it's just confusing.

Yes, it's confusing, and that is the whole movie what we're talking about today, which is eight Crazy Nights. Hello, and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. It's us here, we are, and the voice you heard is that of our guest. She is a Jewish leftist fiber artist. She works in fundraising and is the tech director of a middle school theater program. It's Alex Stanton Klein. Hello and welcome.

Hi. I'm so glad to be here.

Tell us more about your fiber artistry to start, and then we'll get back into dumping on Crazy Nights.

Yeah.

And also just like, if you don't know what the Bechdel Test is or what this show is, just look it up. It's fine, we've been on for eight years. Like do your homework.

Yeah, very happy to be here.

I do a lot of embroidery and textile art and like I said, I'm in New England. I sell in New England markets. You can find me on Instagram at Zinia Socialist Supply company just co ginnya socialist supply co on Instagram. Also in addition to making leftist art and make an embarrassing amount of musical theater themed stickers and postcards and so on. So if you need something that is a very very specific reference to just one line in Rent, I'm your girl.

Love that. I love that.

We still haven't we actually still have not covered Chris Columbus's Rent two thousand and five, if you like to return, as someone would ay, I still like I because I didn't see the show before that. I'm like, that movie is good, and then you watch it You're like, no, it's not. But even as I'm watching it like it's perfect, it's great.

No, I have the deepest amount of love and hate for that movie. Like it's like they're both there in my soul. And I'd be happy to talk more about it. And you know that we have a whole group of friends in a little chat that would be delighted to join in us as well.

So thrilling too.

I remember that I for a listener context, Alex is a dear friend of mine, and the night before I moved to La so like almost ten years ago, Jake was driving me from I forgot something, I'd like lost something, Jake being her husband or her husband refer to him as nothing else. But Jake and I were driving somewhere and we were listening to the Rent movie soundtrack, like just screaming and reaching the conclusion that maybe this is not very good and it was just the best.

Wait, is Jake not who you saw I Frankenstein with?

Yes, Jake actually has deep Buchdel castlere like Jake and I saw I Frankenstein, I would say easily three times. And this was before the AMC stubs days, so we were paying twenty bucks a pop, which we were really heavily investing in the I Frankenstein lore universe. Always have, always will, same with the Master of Disguise.

Yeah, not to keep bringing like mad into the Backdel cast because.

Wow, but sorry, we're talking about We're talking about Jake, We're talking about Frankenstein.

But we're gonna talking about Grant too, because Jamie and Jake forced me and Grant to watch I Frankenstide like all of us, very late at night one night pretty recently actually, like within the past six months or so, and we had to sit down and watch it.

It was actually pretty violent, because yeah, it was already like one in the morning, was like, we have to start watching I Frankenstein and pause and rewind the part where he's swinging nunchucks at nobody on the top of a mountain, which is still my favorite part.

I am a demon Prince.

Jammie bought our baby a demon prince, Onesie. So before is going to continue to.

The next generation, Kitlin, I forgot to tell you I did order a custom I Frankenstein baby once for.

Baby kline.

Wow, that's amazing. So okay, sorry your fiver art right slash. Tell us about your relationship with the movie Eight Crazy Nights.

Okay.

So Jamie texted me and said, would you like to come on beckdelcast and talk a little bit about this movie? And I said, oh, yeah, I think I've seen it before. And then it horrifically like played before my eyes in slow motion as I was like re experiencing this event.

What a time.

It was really lovely, and I was one of smattering of Jewish people on campus, and I can't remember it was my roommate or someone who like lived in my door, my near us, but at the time they were like, you have to watch this movie.

It's really funny.

And I'll say, similarly to the I Frankenstein watch, it was inflicted upon me, but unlike I Frankenstein, I didn't laugh at all. And I remember just sitting there letting them watch me watch this movie. And it was like the weirdest experience of like a group of non Jews of boys just like sitting there watching me experience a movie that they thought was like the epidity of Jewish culture. I was just like, why, why, why is this a part of my life? Yeah?

Unfair, unfair.

I am curious because this is the second I believe Hanuka movie we have on the show. Both movies, as Kaylin and I both have in our notes, ultimately end up being more about youth basketball than Hanukkah. So I'm curious, is there Do you have a favorite and it doesn't have to be a movie, but do you a favorite piece of Hanukkah media?

Yeah?

I mean I think before we talk about that, I will just say because it would be weird for me.

I feel like my grandmother would be really mad if I didn't say.

This, Like, Hankkah is only it's not one of the major Jewish holidays, which often surprises people who aren't Jewish, like there are many other holidays that actually are of greater significance, and so Hannaka is just it's it's in the winter time. It has this weird sort of competitive thing with Christmas sort of.

Which is why people like place so much emphasis on it, because it's actually just like, well it's Christmas time, but we'll acknowledge all their holidays that are happening around this ends up, but ultimately it's just very Christmas centric, right, Yeah.

I feel like a lot of Hanukka material relates like exists only in relationship to Christmas. It doesn't have its own thing, which is just sort of Obviously, we live in a fairly Christian society, even if we're not legally yet just pure Christian society.

Not quite a christ sho fascist regime yet.

But yeah, just take note of when this is released, because by the time you listen to it, we may be.

So.

All that said, knowing that Hankkah is like a major holiday, I think there are other Jewish movies that are awesome and amazing and are about Jewish culture and are really fun and exciting.

Crossing Delancey is a delight.

It's a rom com and this woman gets set up by like a matchmaker with a man who sells pickles at a deli, and it's very, very cute, and it's a woman director too. I think that one's lovely, not a Hanuka movie, but a very lovely Jewish movie. I honestly have a really problematic as hell, but I have a really large soft spot in my heart for.

Hanka. Oh my god, sorry, pregnancy brain.

The big like Honega, like the juice ploitation type Honka movie that came out with Adam.

Is it the Hebrew Hammer?

Yeah?

Yeah, my dad and I watched that all the time. We love it.

Yeah, it's problematic as hell. It is supposed to be like a black exploitation movie. But with Jews, and it's sexist. I mean, it's like, got terrible problems with it, but I find.

It very funny.

And the idea is that he has to save Hankah again from some like evil kind of Christian fascist type played by Andy Dick.

So yeah, I was like.

Yeah, this this this cast so Adam Goldberg, Judy Greer, Andy Dick, Mario Van Peebles, Peter Coyote, I mean of e t Fame, of et No No, of the Hebrew Hammer fame.

Sorry, So yeah, that's a.

That's a fun one.

Yeah.

I'm not saying it's good. I want to stress it's not good. It is fun, sure, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was the name of the dcom that we covered a couple of years ago, Jamie, that's also about youth basketball. It was called Full Court Miracle, right.

We had fay or Love on for that, And I think at the time we discussed I mean, I am not Jewish, and I grew up with such limited exposure to Jewish culture because, as we've alluded to, I did not grow up in a community where there were a lot of Jewish people, and so I think my main understanding of this holiday specifically would have been an episode of Rugrats, and honestly.

That pretty accurate. I would say I grew that.

I was like, all right, yeah, that.

Gives you a good working knowledge of the basics of the holiday.

What's weird is there's iconography in the movie vaguely that relate to Hankah, but like, you never see him. I don't think lighting a manora or doing like none of the characters are doing Honkkah right, unless I'm misremembering.

No.

I also was a little bit confused at like at the beginning, I'm like, maybe, honestly, I found it very hard to focus on this movie and I refuse to watch it twice, so there may be And.

It's only eighty six minutes long, not even it's like seventy six minutes long.

It definitely has like Master of Guy's syndrome, where it's so short but it feels unbelievably long, grueling. Yeah, but there, I think at the beginning, Whitey aka also Adam Sandler says that he is not Jewish, but then by the end they invite everyone over for Hanukkah, and I was like, wait, didn't this start with this character stating he like he doesn't celebrate Hanukkah.

Right, and then also, but is his sister not extremely like Jewish coded Yes, in an offensive and stereotypical way. Yes, but they're not a Jewish family, so you really just wonder what's happening there.

So why did they go so far out of their way to be like, these siblings are not Jewish, but then by the end they are.

It was like, I don't know, this movie's a mess. It's all ye, and.

I'll say I even at one point when they showed the exter of Whitey and his sister's house, I've paused it because you can see I think that there are Christmas and Hanuka decorations just to add extra confusion, so like they have a large amount of Christmas decorations and also some Honica decorations too, Like I saw some blues white in there.

Ultimately, this family is considering celebrating Hanukkah, and it's unclear why.

They just appreciate a whole cultures question.

Mark, Yeah, there, I mean unproblematic, simply duo.

So wait, Jamie, what's your history if any with this movie.

I hadn't seen it, I although I've heard it like referenced so many times I've heard there's I don't know, like I wouldn't have seen this, Like I was too young to see this when it came out, but I do remember like later on, just like boys doing impressions of the Whitey character. I do have like probably around the same like Borat impression era, just like a really

So I knew about Whitey weirdly.

And that is all I knew about this movie. I'd never seen it before. What about you, Caitlin.

I did see it for the first time only like probably two or three years ago. I don't know what compelled me exactly to like it's time take it upon myself to watch it, but I was just like shot up in the middle of the night.

Yeah, I must do this.

I mean, we've been talking about potentially covering this movie on the podcast for years because around this time we almost always do like a very Christian centric Christmas movie slate of movies, and we were like, let's diversify the slate of movies. So because this is one of the few mainstream, you know, Hollywood movies that centers Hanukkah or that at least has Honkah as a backdrop, because this movie is kind of not about Honkah at all, that I was like, Oh, I should watch this. I've heard

Wow, incredible.

And also the animation sucks. Sorry, Like I said, the like sync between the mouth and the the vocal performances.

Is never SINGCD.

And then there is something I kind of like. I was bothered by it at first, but then I kind of grew to like it.

Over time.

Anytime there's a group like a wide shot of everyone singing, no one's mouth this movie, I think they like were not able to.

Like afford to make everyone sing.

But it's just like you hear, especially like that big number towards the end and they pull out, it's like the whole community center singing and dancing. Everyone's mouth is totally shut like like it's I found it scary at first, and then they do it again in the end end scene at the mall. Still couldn't afford to open the mouths. Why make it a group scene if that is you know, it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.

It's a perfect movie.

No, that's.

No.

I think that I do at some point want to talk about the music from it because like some of us talking are very musical theater kids at our hearts, and like the music is so bad it's like hurt my I was like, this isn't how music, Like, like I understand they're supposed to be funny and the songs are funny, like I'm not I did not get that part, but right it just like like to me, I was.

Like, but this is it.

Like when you think about an animated movie that has music or musical or something else that where people sing like none of the there weren't reasons for them to sing. He was just like, I guess the musical number will go here, and then another one will go here, and like they just don't function well as musical numbers.

And that was, yeah, honestly very stressful for me.

Why technical.

I think it was the song technical foul that broke me. Oh my gosh, where and it was stuck in my head. That's why I had to go see Wicked immediately after, because I was like, I can't go to sleep, but that's.

A technical foul, like stuck in my head. That song was.

I mean, none of the songs are really necessary, but that one just comes out of nowhere. It's so long and has nothing to do with anything. The best song in the movie is a decade old song they use in the credits, the Honka song Like, which is also clearly why the movie exists, because the line eight crazy nights appears in the song and it's a classic.

It's super funny.

Like Adam Sandler does is not He's not one of my guys, but I get why people like him. When I listen to the Hankkah song. I don't get why people like him. When I watch Eight Crazy.

Nights, do you know that the big joke among at least someone of my friends and family about the Hanka song is just like our whole family would.

Just go, I mean, Adam, what are you doing? Why are you just giving people a list of Jews?

Nobody needs that that secret like, don't make a list of us, It's not safe. And yeah, I would have actually kind of enjoyed a movie if it featured eight Crazy Nights and eat Crazy Night or like sorry, if the the Hanka song had been like a part of the story.

In some way.

Why not? Really, yeah, why just do that?

I would have had fun with that. You know, that would have been a really enjoyable movie.

Maybe maybe, Well, let's take a quick break and then we will come back and do the recap of this seventy six minute long feature film.

Bear it back and we're back, and we're back.

Yes, this does have another feature of a movie that just couldn't make it to feature length, which is that it also has an incredibly long credit sequence.

So it looks like it's eighty minutes long, but it is not.

It just they play the Hanakah song all the way through, but it's like a new improvised version, so it's like six minutes long.

As soon as you get the title card where it's like directed bye blah blah blah, I turned it off. I couldn't listen to another second, so I missed that the whole credit song, unfortunately, but oh no, it would darn it missed it. Okay, So here's the recap. We open on voiceover narration from Rob Schneider. And if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know right at the top, I.

Just also the narrator.

I know that they're trying to like do like a holiday movie pastige there, but also anytime the narrator talks, it just makes it sound like the movie is insecure, that you don't understand what's happening.

You're like, I know, I got it.

I know he's walking around, and then cut to Rob Schneider doing an offensive accent. Yes, first spoken line of dialogue is Rob Schneider.

This movie is so firmly rooted in two thousand and two, like in particular with the racism, the offensiveness, the weight jokes, the joke. We'll get to all of that, but like you when you open, when the movie opens with Rob Schneider doing something offensive, you're like, it's really two thousand and two.

In here, it stinks in here.

It's wild that this is like this is also this is the same year as my favorite Adam Sandler performance in Punch Drunk Love. Oh yeah, and then he just had to end the year like this, no accounting.

For it, you know. He he has range from something that's pretty good to something that's really.

Fucking terrible, too horrible.

Yeah, yeah, okay. So the voiceover is explaining that Christmas is right around the corner and that tonight is the first night of Hanukkah, although some people aren't excited about the holidays, including a man named Davy Stone. This is the main Adam Sandler character who is designed to look like Adam Sandler. Yes, very much.

I will be calling him Adam Sandler. I can't be bothered to call him daddy.

So he is a down on his luck guy. He's at a Chinese restaurant getting drunk. He leaves without paying, so the cops start chasing him, but not before he drunkenly makes with his car. For some reason.

That is a note on my many list of things I don't like. I just said, do not like him making out with his car at all? Not a good joke comment not good bad.

Is well, you're you're correct, it is not good and it doesn't even crack the top fifty percentile of bad, which is which is wild.

Yeah.

So then he starts like snowboarding around town on the lid of a trash can or something. He's singing a song, Oh.

My God, and the songs are even the song's titles are lazy. Davy's song is the first song, and he's like, I don't like Hanukkah or Christmas. I don't like this time of year. And you're like, oh, all right, this thinks I don't like it.

Yeah, that's the whole song.

The chorus is I hate love, I hate you, I hate me, and you're like, cool, go to therapy, sir.

There's I mean, it's like there, that is a reasonable starting point. I mean, he's like, he's scrooging around. Okay, but what is this going to build to? And the answer is not very much.

I do want to know in the opening bits, and this is something that I noticed when I moved to New England, is that they had this the Ice Santa and the Ice Manora side by side, and they are of equal height and of equal importance in this town that supposedly of Jewish people, right, Yeah, the percentage of the percentage of the Jewish population in New Hampshire is around zero point eight percent.

So I don't think I googled it after living because it's eight.

Yeah, it's small, and I think there's like a few towns that have like concentrations, but it's not like there's a huge you know, So it doesn't make sense to Jamie's point earlier to have it set in New Hampshire.

But also my point is living.

In New England, it's very rare to see Honeka be treated with the same level of decorative important as Christmas. And I just like straight from the beginning, I was like, well,

So it just felt so not accurate.

Like right from the beginning, I'm like, ad a buddy, like, what what are you doing? This isn't how this is not an authentic to me anyway, based on my experience and how I experienced a hanika.

In New England or outside of a major metropolis.

I was very confused at the choice to set it in New England if they were not going to make it a point that like Christmas is so dominant in New England and like have that be sort of like a plot point or something that's referenced in more than a couple of passing jokes. But it just feels like an excuse for the movie to not actually be about Hanakah.

It's really bizarre. I was like, what is this movie about?

Is Adam Sandler? Is he from New England? Is that I'm kind of guessing he's from New York?

Okay, I just assumed he was, Like, let's just set it up in New England for the.

Hell of it.

Oh, I guess he moved to Manchester when he was a kid. Okay, Okay, so he did go to high school in New Hampshire. I guess that explains New Hampshire at least.

Right, Yeah, but the like vibe seems very off. As you said, Alex, in any case, he's snowboarding around, he's singing about how he hates everybody, and he's just being cruel and awful to everyone he encounters. And like you said, Jamie, like, sure, if he's like a gringe type, fine place for a character to start, assuming he'll have an arc. But they like went way too far in that direction of just being so horrible that he is like irredeemable.

I think I couldn't find myself rooting for him. No, in anyway I.

Felt that, especially the second we meet Jennifer, I'm like, I can't believe she has to end up with this guy.

This is so unfair to her, like I know this is the only woman. And also I mean, we'll get to it, but just the animation style.

We talked about this a lot in animated movies in general, but just how like the tropes in how women are animated, and then the love interest just looks like a hot lady. You're just like And then any woman who the Adam Sandler character doesn't want to have sex with is designed so wildly differently, so like offensive that the lady with three.

Boobs, I'm like, what are what is? What is that?

And she comes out of nowhere in nax and I was like, wait, we haven't met this character before. She shows up so late in the movie.

She's like, here's me.

I was like, what is this?

She is established early on, but like for what reason? It's it's so annoying anyway. So he's being awful to everyone, and then he gets arrested and goes before a judge who is about to give him a harsh sentence because he has a history of like just being awful and disruptive in the community. But then a man named Whitey Duval who is also voiced by Adam Sandler, is this a.

Whitey Bulger joke?

Like?

What? What?

I don't I don't know.

If so, it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. He interjects and suggests that Davy do community service in the form of helping Whitey referee youth basketball games. That's because that's gonna set him straight.

That's a that's a hefty dose of white privilege right at right at the top where it's like, oh, you've been sentenced to not even community service, you've been sentenced to a part time job, right like he got a job out of almost getting a dy Yes.

And then Davy reluctantly agrees to this after saying a whole string of very ablest things to Whitey. But he's like, fine, I'll do it because otherwise he's going to be sentenced to like ten years in prison. So he's like, I guess i'll referee youth basketball instead ten.

Years in prison, or we'll give you a job. I'm like, uh, huh huh. Justice system makes sense.

And meanwhile, there's a subplot where Whitey is hoping to win the All Star patch at the youth league basketball banquet that's coming up.

I will say I was I was a little invested in the patch. I wanted him to get the patch that makes one of us because I didn't give a shit.

Now I was rooting for him.

I think it like Jamie is saying, there's a movie that appears to like middle school boys, and then they do the voice, and like, the Whitey voice just made me like physically tends up because I was like, oh, it's every boy from my middle school. It just like as you just that, it just brought it all back, and I just couldn't.

I couldn't support Whitey because of that.

Yeah, I totally understand. I don't know.

I mean, I I he's the only character that I mean, he's just so abused when he's put in the in the shit statue.

Oh, he is a sympathetic character. Yeah, because you feel sorry for him, you feel pretty for it. We'll talk all about it.

But yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not like, why don't you guys like Whitey. I understand, I understand. I just wanted him to get the patch. I mean, he gets spoiler or he gets five of them.

Yeah. Okay. So it's the first basketball game that Davy is meant to be refereeing, but he's not really doing his job. He then makes another string of extremely fat phobic remarks to one of the players on one of the teams, and the game ends and Whitey is upset about the way Davy is treating people, so he takes Davy to the mall.

Maybe that's why I like Whitey. I like going to the mall because he I find it comforting.

To the going to the dunkin Donuts in the mall.

Yeah, I'm doing that too. I'm hitting up the dunks at the Glendell Gallery. I'm unknown entity there. So maybe that's why I connect with him.

I don't know, I understand.

Yeah, that's a technical file. It's sucking my head again much anyway.

So Whitey is teaching Davy a lesson at the mall, of course, and he's telling Davy he needs to be more respectful. And there a woman named Jennifer Friedman who is voiced by Jackie Sandler aka Adam Sandler's his wife. Although I don't think they were married at the time. I don't know if this is how they met or what, but this is pre their marriage, I believe.

Interesting. Yes, I did not realize that it's true.

That is baffling that you could fall in love during the production of this movie.

Yeah.

Yeah, they got married the next.

Year, So I feel like it's kind of safe to say that eight Crazy Nights, I mean, something good came out of it.

So they brought them together there good for them anyway. So Jennifer and her son Benjamin are there at the mall because I believe she works at Dunkin Donuts. She detonomically.

I looked into it because I Caitlin, as you know, I love keeping track of product placement. There is so much of this. What I learned though, is that they got permission for none of it. None of it, well none of it, so there's not even a reason for it, Like, but you've got which because at first, when Whitey was showing Adam Sandler every store at the mall, first reason, I was like, oh, this must have been how they

Do you like this?

It's just for the love of them all. Yeah, they just had to. I mean, I like, how did you feel, how did you.

Feel about the Dunks situation? Because I know your feelings on Dunks.

But like representation matters, like it's I I liked that there was a Dunks in New Hampshire.

That makes sense to me.

And I like Jennifer all one thing I know about her. I'm I'm rooting for Jennifer to somehow bust through the fourth wall.

And be in a different movie. But I do.

I like a girl who works at Dunkin Donuts. Yeah, hell yeah, working class hero, exactly.

Exact single mother.

But then she ends Honestly, she ends this movie worse off than when she started because now she has like a second.

Son, not even a boyfriend.

She's a single mother to a man child, ten year old and a thirty three year old.

It's just it's unpleasant. Yeah.

In any case, Jennifer and her son are there and they bring donuts to Whitey. This is something she does regularly, and Davy is like, you know, noticing her and sexually harassing her and insulting her son. But then he realizes that he knows her because they went to school together and they used to be friends. But he's been an asshole for the past twenty years and so he probably doesn't have a chance with her. Just kidding. Jennifer is Davy's love.

Interest I for some reason, I mean not that I mean, I like, there's never a point in the movie where I'm on Davy's side, but it like make me extra angry that he didn't even recognize her. I was like, she like of all of the like he didn't even remember who she was his best friend from childhood.

Like that's it makes no sense.

They dated, like they were like tween boyfriend girlfriend, you had a little kiss in the flashback.

You would recognize that person. It doesn't matter how different they look, you would recognize them.

That's like he's just too busy bullying her son, like he loves bullying children.

That I found that like so wildly off putting, Like on top of everything else. I was like if I if my childhood sweetheart didn't recognize me, I would be like fuck this guy, Like I know.

Also worth noting that Jennifer and her son are seem to be the only other two Jewish characters besides Davy in the story, because Benjamin is describing the Hanuka give he has received so far, so it's established that Jennifer is also Jewish. So then Whitey takes Davy home, but gets stuck in the snow outside Davy's house and Davy doesn't care or do anything to help, So Whitey's just like out there for hours until he gets unstuck with the help of some plot deer that keep showing up.

The deer also played by Adam Sandler.

Yes, yeah, so when they.

Go that's important.

That's Adam Taylor's voice.

Another fun fact.

From Scholgarly Journal Wikipedia is that in the test screenings of this, Whitey's voice was originally even more high pitched and they brought it down, and that Sandler was begged to remove some of the deer shitting jokes, but he was like, that's a bridge too far.

I will not.

I'm keeping them, all of them, all of them, all, forty of them. I think though you honestly see deer shitting on screen more than you hear Jennifer speak.

I think that's accurate.

Anyways, this movie wrong.

So in Davy's house, he is drinking and also looking at a picture of his parents, who are implied to have died. Then Whitey finally gets home and we meet his sister, Eleanor, who he lives with. Eleanor is also voiced by Adam Sandler and we'll talk more about Eleanor. But then we get voiceover narration that says that Whitey tends to do odd jobs around town to make ends meet.

And that's I think we can all agree. That's a technical owl.

That's a technical that's a technical fowl. That's comedy, baby, you know. That's does hilarious jokes and we love it. And then Davy sprays him with a hose which freezes because it's winter in New Hampshire. And then the deer help Whitey again by licking the shit ice off of him, and we're just like, why is this movie like this.

It's also implied that he gets like sort of a blowhop. Dear o sorrow.

I'm sorry, that's referenced in a one off joke Crazy.

Day licked my balls or whatever.

This is.

This is a movie for ten year old boys.

That night, Davy Whitey and Benjamin Jenniferson are at the basketball courts where a few adult men are playing pickup, and Davy's like, I could beat all you guys at basketball.

Oh this pissed me off. This pissed me off.

When it's implied that he does nothing but drink beer and then he's shirtless and like ripped, I was like, this is this is ego gone wild? This character canonically and this is not a judgment, but it just felt like Adam Sandler being like, oh my cartoon avatar has to be hot ripped. Like yeah, it just it felt like it was an email.

Also, I formed a theory in this scene where I was like, oh, I wonder if the reason this is animated is because Adam Sandler wants to be portrayed as being way better at basketball than he normally is. But then I saw some clips of him playing basketball. I he seems all right. I guess he could probably have done it live.

ASHI played those at those like famous oh my gosh, what am I thinking? Those famous Gary Shandling basketball games. He was like a common attender. I know that he really likes basketball. I think that this is only animated because he was trying to which again like doesn't worry.

It was trying to.

Like visually parody old animated Christmas Specials. But I don't know where the thirty four million dollars went here because the.

Mouths don't even move. It's just I don't know.

And did it look to you like the old Christmas Specials animated example, Yeah, I didn't get that feel like the the the animation style didn't feel like it was connected to a specific era and was like in conversation with that era if you welcome, right.

I didn't feel like it was like referencing anything in particular, which I guess I find somewhat explained by the fact that like ten animation studios ended up working on this, so I don't know like what was going on behind the scenes, but like.

There's no there's no cohesive creative vision going on here.

Yeah. It kind of reminds me of Sausage Party, which also had a lot of like animation stuff going on, and.

I was like they were like breaking union, like they were crossing picket lines to do Sausage Party.

It's awesome, Yeah, worth it?

Oh gosh, Okay, So Davy is like I can beat all you guys a basketball. So he plays two on two first with Whitey, who gets immediately injured, and it's supposed to be a hilarious.

Joke technical foul.

It was a technical foul. Then Davey plays with Benjamin as his teammate and they win. We'll talk more about that in the discussion, but I'll just breeze right past all the fat phobia inherent in this scene. But Jennifer then comes by to pick Benjamin up up and she sees Davy and her son playing together, and she's like hmm. But then she's also like mmmmm, yeah, because she hates Davy, but also maybe she's starting to like him.

I wouldn't want my kid around Davy, to be perfectly honest, he's a bad guy, yes, And then anytime she's like, hey, get away from my kid. You're a bad guy, he's like, what do you mean by that?

He spent the beginning of the movie bullying other children and then also bullied.

Yeah.

Right, Like it's very reasonable for her to be like, based on my past experiences with you, I don't think that you'll treat my son well, you know, Like that seems like a very normal Jennifer, that's very normal.

Right, She's got to do it, She's got to do And meanwhile, like Adam Saylor is standing next to an unconscious old man and is like.

What is wrong with me? And it's like, dude. Anyways.

Then there's another song where Davy and Jennifer reminisced about their youth. There's a whole flashback sequence. They used to be friends and like young lovers as tweens, and but obviously everything has changed. Then Davy comes home to discover that the men that he had just beaten at basketball are lighting his house on fire. So now his home is gone, and Whitey offers Davy to let him stay with him and his sister Eleanor.

Things get very dark in the back half of this movie. The most and this is like not the most, the most depressing thing is yet to come, which I was truly shocked by.

Yeah, So then Davey comes to stay with them for a while, and this is where we get the it's a.

Technical foul motivated by anything. No, it's just like farting.

Yet that that's a technical foul, Like it's just this in my mind, technical foul is half the run time of this movie, it.

Just felt like it would not stop.

It goes on so long. Yeah, it's basically just Whitey explaining the rules that Davey has to follow because he's so disrespectful. And it seems to actually kind of work, because the next time we see Davy, he is behaving a little bit more respectfully. He seems to be like kinder and more sensitive.

Kind of like that's what worked on him. The song is technically.

Right, it doesn't make sense. But then sometime passes and I think it is now the eighth day of Hanukkah, and now you're realizing, oh, this movie is called Eight Crazy Nights. You have an expectation that it's going to be about eight crazy nights, and yet most of it happens off screen, and none of the nights are actually crazy quote unquote.

And so a couple of like vaguely eventful days. But because this, like because the main character doesn't celebrate Hanukkah anymore for a reason, where about to learn? And because it doesn't seem like anyone except Jennifer and Benjamin celebrate Hanukkah, and we never see them celebrate Hannakah because we don't care about them. The fact that it's Hanakkah is very easy to forget because you only see Christmas decorations and no one is celebrating Hankah.

So I saw because I went deep down a rabbit hole reading like reviews from that time, and then I ended up on like a Reddit talking about this movie, and somebody from many years ago wrote in that this was their favorite movie to watch during the Christmas season and it just really exemplified Christmas.

For them, which I thought was just a really great point. Like, it doesn't it's not a Hanukkah movie. I don't know what to say. It's not.

There's no Ronica's not present. It's not a character in the movie. It's not it's just not there.

It's a whole movie about why this one character no longer celebrates Hanukkah due to brutal childhood trauma, which is a story, but not really a Hanakah story.

Right, Okay, So we are now at the eighth day of Hanukkah. Davy is hanging out with Whitey and Eleanor and white He tells the story of how Davy learned that his parents had been killed in a car accident when he was a kid. Like twenty years prior, and this grief and traumatic loss is what has made Davy so horrible to everyone around him.

I was not prepared for something that heavy that the movie is, like, you know, the second you learn that his parents died in this horrible way, you're like, well, this movie isn't equipped to have this conversation remotely.

Why even try?

Oh but yeah, I was like, wow, it's a dark turn at the very end.

Yeah, I think they put it in. I mean it felt to me very strongly like they put it in there just to be like and that, uh, that excuses every single thing he's ever.

Done so far. Right, You're right, that's the solution.

And it's just you know, I used to teach it at preschool and we used I mean we used to say a.

Lot of like that may explain the behavior, but it.

Does not excuse it. And I feel like that phrase works really well here for Davy, Like that might give some explanation for why he's he acts like an asshole, but like, ultimately it's on him to still be a good person in the world, right, Like, we still participate, we live in a society, Davy, Like, come on, get it together. You can't just put people import of bodies and throw them off a cliff, like, we don't do that.

It won't bring your parents back. Davy, to throw an old man off a cliff.

Well, that's the lesson he learns by the end.

I guess that's what he learns by the end.

I shouldn't have thrown that old man off of a cliff. Okay, girlfriend, please, son, please, I learned to my lesson.

Where's my reward?

Where's my reward in the form of a human woman who I now get to claim as my property anyway? Okay. The reminder of this story about the loss of his parents sets Davy off. He lashes out at Whitey and Eleanor and he storms off. He gets drunk again and then breaks into the mall because ninety percent of this movie either takes place at the mall or at a

Mark really interesting, you know, And then they sing to Davy and they tell him to cry and to let it all out because he has never dealt with his grief over the loss of his parents in a way that is like healthy or effective or anything like that, and he's really didn't to cry.

Wouldn't it be amazing if that message came from a character we've met before and not.

Some weird like foot Locker animated like hallucination or something like.

I know we could talk about this in the discussion too, but like you can't even get away from the misogyny in the mall.

Like it's Tyra Banks as an.

Empty dress which from Victoria's Secret that still gets sexually harassed by a jar of vitamins or like protein powder oh from Chance, Yeah yeah, Tyra Banks as an empty dress that is still getting hit on really sums up the movie's views on women to me.

And I love again that you were saying that he didn't. It wasn't like he was sponsored by this movie. He was just like what if corporate? What if like the embodiment of corporations told me how to have feelings?

It's so good that, like I became all the more confused by this movie when it when I found out that he was like sort of doing something like illegal by having done that, because you're supposed to get the consent of but it's really weird.

I don't know. But yeah, they're like, well, okay, we've introduced five thousand characters for some reason, but at the emotional peak of the movie, let's have none of them there and it'll just be logos from the mall.

Yeah. Awesome, good storytelling.

Yeah.

Anyway, so they're telling him to let it all out and to open up about his feelings, and he's reluctant to do so, but then he opens the Hanaka card that his parents wrote for him and that he received the night that they died, and he finally cries. And then some cops come into the mall because he's broken in, and he's like, you know, trespassing, and they're about to arrest him, but Davy escapes and he gets on a

You're like, oh, right, that plotline, still rooting for him, and.

He does this because Davy wants to apologize to Whitey for his behavior. And then we cut to the banquet. Whitey does not win the patch, so he is devastated. It goes to sub guy voiced by John Lovetz. I think, yeah, sure, So Whitey and Eleanor leave because Whitey is so upset

But their mouths are they're lockdobs.

Okay, First, first, it's just Whitey and Eleanor at the mall, and Whitey is crying because everyone in town thinks he's a joke and I didn't vote for him for the patch. But then Davy and the whole rest of the town show up, and the mayor is like, here, Whitey, here's the patch after all. And then everyone who had previously won the patch from the past thirty five years also are like, yeah, Whitey, here's my patch because you're the

Discuss, and we're back. My first, I'd like to open the conversation by saying, why isn't David Spade in this movie?

Were they fighting?

Wow?

I feel like he's.

The one, you know, Sandler verse guy who who's not popping up. True, that's all the thoughts I have in the movie.

Everyone else, take it away, Yeah, take it away. Episode.

I guess the context for this movie. I couldn't find a whole lot on the development of it. But the title, as we've referenced, is taken from the line of the Honkkah song that Adam Sandler wrote and performed and so that's they were like, Hey, there's a line in the song it says eight crazy nights if that was a movie where most of the nights take place off screen and the ones we do see are pretty tame.

I mean, they've they've built SNL spin off movies on less, so that's not even disqualifying.

Yeah, necessarily right, but uh, it just like is a bummer that one of the few American movies that centers a Jewish holiday is like also one of the worst movies ever made.

And also not about the holiday that it's advertising that it's about, right, Yeah, Alex, Alex, what was it like for you to, uh to revisit this this gem?

Well, well so again, I think I said to Caitlin before we started, it is really something to watch a purported comedy just in complete silence, Like Jake and I were sitting I were sitting there.

We just sat there like the whole time.

Like, I don't think either of us laughed at anything pertaining to the movie. I think during the corporate day scene, I might have just blacked out, Like I almost don't remember it at all because I was just like, what is happening here? Yeah, utterly bizarre.

I you know, the message of Honicah is really it's you.

Know about the I mean every I don't want to speak for every disperson, but I feel like there are a lot of different ways that you can interpret it and talk about it, and none of them were present in this movie.

I don't even think we ever saw a minora being lit at all.

I don't think so.

And again, as you said, it wasn't eight crazy nights.

It was eight mostly during the days, and nothing to do with Hankah really, and we're in New Hampshire.

Yeah, yeah, it just felt I mean like I feel like because yeah, I was also had a hard time finding any sort of meaningful background on this. But given the number of like credited writers and credited animation companies.

I feel like it's it's safe to say that.

Maybe this was coherent at one point being generous, but it definitely did not like end that way.

I don't know why.

It seems like Adam Sandler was really you know, like, no, we will not like he had a lot of creative control to the point where he could be like, you cannot take out the deer shitting scenes, so like, I don't know, I don't know what to make of this. It's like it's so bad and like you were saying earlier, Alex, like is just sort of like this charcutory board of like offensive early two thousands jokes where we have not one but two characters that are strictly there to be

Plot, But there's a child who.

Just like Adam Sandler's fat shaming, who is crying, and I feel like that plays into bullying and also plays into like tropes around bad people being really sensitive I guess, and like overly emotional. And then we cut to like a joke of like he Adam Sandler's like, kid, you gotta get a bra, like just middle school bullying as a.

Thirty three year old character.

Yeah, and then when we go to Victoria's secret apparently against Victoria's secrets, Will not that that's a great company, but it's just so weird that he didn't ask. But then we see like that kid trying on. It's a very like incoherent joke.

Yeah, not only are the jokes incredibly problematic and reductive and punching down to marginalize people. They often don't make sense and are very sad.

And then it never comes back, which is not like, oh I wish there was a third beat of that joke, but like it's still You're like, why is why is any of it here?

I don't know right.

Similarly, the adult who is relentlessly fat shamed is shown on screen. The brief moment that he's on screen, he's depicted as being like very uncoordinated and clueless, and then the losing players of the two on two game have to eat his jockstrap because that is like the worst punishment conceivable, You have to eat a fat person's undergarment.

Like, but it's also like that should be true if anyone's undergarded.

That shouldn't for.

The punishment for anybody, Like body type should not be a factor in why you wouldn't want to do that.

They're like, well, if it was.

If it was like a guy, I would need to cuss jockstrap if it was his, if he had a different body type.

Well that's the joke. It's just like it's especially gross because it belongs to a fat person. So it's just like nonsensical jokes like that. There's, as we referenced already, the anti Asian racism in a care who works at a Chinese restaurant who is voiced by Rob Schneider doing.

His definitely not the only time Rob Schneider's done this, I cannot I could pull a second example out of my head, but I know he's done this before.

We know.

We talked about this on I think it was our fifty First Dates episode. There are like the whole pieces written about the long list of often anti Asian racist jokes and characters that he does in movies like I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry is an example. He does it in fifty First Day, every movie, it's almost every movie he's in, honestly, So he's just doing another

I have a real problem with how they treated Eleanor in the movie. I mean it just it starts bad and then it gets so much worse. And then the thing with the like she her hair is a wig, and that's a big funny joke for a while that she loses her wig, and it just felt like everything they were doing to Whitey but made it worse because she's a woman, you know what I mean, Like they're like it's already bad. And then we added in a lot of misogyny too.

Because they seem to have they're like fraternal twins, they seem to have been born with the same physical disability, and so there's a ton of ablest jokes made about them. But like you said, yeah, it's even the offensive jokes that are leveled at Eleanor are even more so because she is a woman and she's like voiced with this very like shrill, annoying voice that Adam Sandler is doing that's like very intentionally annoying.

And apparently could have been worse, which is so wild.

Yeah, and then for those two characters, the character design is way more cartoonish than every single other character. Every single other character you see at least resemble like human people, But for these two characters, Whitey and Eleanor, they're very very very cartoonish looking, like they they don't resemble human beings the way that humans look. So it's just another way that the movie doesn't take them seriously, that the

Me a bit break doesn't make Yeah, that's I feel like that's an Adam Sandler email, like hold on, hold on, make me way.

Yeah, he's a loser, but he's got to be sexy because he looks like me, Like, I don't know, I don't know how much creative control should one person be.

Permitted to have, do your dumb man, this guy would not have chiseled abs like and the fact that like that is sort of used to justify why he's like treating other characters so fat phobic, like is well.

Because he's got You're like that doesn't make narrative sense given his the only.

Thing we see him consume the entire movie is.

Beer anyways, right, I don't even know? And yeah, I mean going back to Eleanor a little bit, I mean I just found it. Really I felt like she was treated I mean, she's treated horrifically, but it also felt like she was like they were leaning on like Jewish stereotypes with her, but her character was. It was very unclear.

He's doing it like a stereotypical Jewish old lady voice, and like we picked up on that right away when I was watching it. I was like, that's so weird because like, again, they're not they're not Jews away.

Right, like the first thing we learned about those, right And like you said, like even if they were Jewish characters, to then lean into that stereotype is just lazy and reductive.

Problematic and confusing. Every joke in this movie.

I was pleasantly surprised that, I mean, are we ready to talk about We're ready.

To talk to Jennifer.

Let's let's do it.

I was pleasantly surprised that Jennifer didn't seem to fulfill any Jewish like women's stereotypes. Really, I mean, in all of that, I'm saying it as if it's a compliment, but also as I angrily texted Jamie, we know like six facts about Jennifer, Like, what do we really know about Jennifer. She's not a well defined character. She's a woman, she's a brunette.

She's a mom, she works at Dunkin Donuts, she's Jewish, she's generous.

Yeah, yeah, she's a nice person.

And she doesn't put up with Davy's shit a lot of the time. And until that very it makes you wonder why she's willing to like get with him, because has he redeemed himself because he's so irredeemable that like he doesn't do enough.

I think No, it's she's treated as a trophy at the end, I mean, which I think has made pretty explicit.

By how like and they make eleanor do it where it's.

Like, if you guys don't, Kish shall kick you in the teeth.

And then Jennifer is like, yep, makes sense. I guess. I guess you're my son now too. You're like Jesus, come.

You know, honestly, Then I'm going to retract my previous statement that it was nice that she wasn't treated with Jewish stereotypes, because the reason they probably didn't imbue her with Jewish stereotypes is because she was a trophy at the end, right, Like a lot in a lot of movies like that, the Jewish woman character really does only exist to be sort of mocked in a number of different a variety of different fun ways. And so I feel like you can you can have one or the other.

It's very bleak, right, especially because the like the woman trophy in so many movies is like very waspy. Everything is bad in the movie.

It's like where does ivid?

Yeah, the I guess I don't have anything to say about the Dead Parents except like, what a wildly serious plot point to deploy with like ten minutes left in the movie. But yeah, I think, like Alex you said it perfectly earlier, where it's like it's that is presented as a justification for all of his behavior, which obviously it isn't, and then when he makes the smallest bit of progress as a person, he's immediately given trophy. Jennifer who like stands up for him kind of in a

So it's like they just either to be made fun of.

Yeah, right, the same as you know, mister Chang and like yeah, they're just like oh yeah, these are like this is the joke we always make in the Adam Sandler movie, so we have to make it here too, and it's just like lazy and bad what else.

They're similarly a very brief but noticeable transphobic joke in one of the songs in Songs song Form emblematic of the type of stuff that this movie thinks is funny.

The protein powder hits on the victorious decrodrazy. You're just at the point you're like, all right, I'm just like I've I've stopped.

Feeling I didn't even write that down because I had like checked out so hard at that point that I was like, I can't My brain is mush, I can't even.

It's honestly like, yeah, listeners, let us know if we've forgotten anything, because I found it so hard to lock in on this movie, and I kept pausing it to be.

Like, yeah, we'll do an earlier point.

Like It's one thing. If there is a character who hasn't properly dealt with grief, who is like turning to substance use to cope, and who like with the help of their community perhaps is able to like turn things around and deal with things in a healthier way. There's

Yeah, absolutely a.

League of their own. Like it's the Tom Hanks character.

Okay, that's half like TV pilots too. He's back.

So if anyone has any other I know I'm missing so many. Oh there was actually a movie that I was an extra in called The Winning Season starring Sam Rockwell and Emma Roberts, that I think never got a theatrical release.

But like that sounds like a mad lib.

I'm basically the star of it as I walk through one cafeteria scene with no speaking role. But it's like, yeah, Sam Rockwell like gets community service and has to coach a girls basketball team. So like, there's just so many

I think that his character, like I was saying, a lot of his behavior, I mean, there's no coming back from some of the things he did, Like when you throw you know, when you throw an old man off a cliff inside a porner body and let him get covered in shit, like there's really I mean, there's no redemption.

There's no redemption to be how No, And I think that even and I think that's probably why they drop the dead parents in at the end. They're like today and it.

Just doesn't that doesn't make it better. And I also think that is redeeming himself by saying maybe white he should win the Patch Award, Like that's not.

Is that redemption? Is that enough? Did he balance the scales of justice? I feel like he did not right.

We've talked about this before, but male redemption arcs and stories like this is something we see all the time, where a man will be really awful to people and do things that are arguably irredeemable, but because he does one tiny little thing he does not even the bare minimum, He does less than the bare minimum, but still gets a redemption arc because culturally we just allow bad male behavior far more than we permit or tolerate any kind of bad behavior from marginalized genders.

Well, yeah, like the thresholds for a man's redemption is far lower, and the threshold for punishment of anyone who's not a man.

Is also a far lower.

Like, you know, we see women get punished all the time for existing and then like you know, characters like this do the most horrific shit possible and then are nice one time, and then it's like, no.

You're right, you're right, here's your woman property after me too.

There were all those apologies that came out, and I'm thinking in particular of I want to say Mario Batali and he was like, I'm sorry I sectually harassed people.

Here is a cinnamon role recipe. Everything's good, And it was.

Just like, what, Well, that's the thing. Yeah, Like, if you're a white man in society and you do something horrible, you have a shot or redemption.

Caitlyn, I keep forgetting to bring this up. I think about it every couple of months. I want to do a Matreon theme that's like white male O Tour post Me Too movie, because there were so many of them that were like, I get it, guys, I get it, my bad and then it's like the only movie they'll

Like doesn't work. I actually think one of the better ones is The Last Duel. Oh, the Last Duel is a good example that men.

For example, is a that's the Alex Garland post me to movies.

There's just a lot of them.

It's Bombshell, directed by j Rod.

Yes, that's that might be bottom of the barrel for me. That movie is dog shit And at the time I was and they tried to kill me.

At the time I got called by the newspaper.

When I said the Bombshell was like dog shit and bad for women.

They're like, what do you mean you hate you hate women, Like.

Yes, yeah, that's exactly what that means there is that it. Does anyone have any other thoughts about Eight Crazy Nights?

Yeah, I mean, I think I forget when we last had this conversation, but I do want to just sort of like take a second for us to acknowledge Adam Sandler's politics, which are actually quite relevant to this movie in spite of it not really being about Hanakah.

Right, yeah, yeah, So Adam Sandler has a history of having a very pro Israel stance. A couple examples of this seems like a lot of it happened in twenty fifteen, at least publicly, where he was reported as saying, quote, I will always stand with Israel. I can't tolerate people who criticize Israel without walking in their shoes. I hate the lies they spread and their lack of knowledge. I

Yeah, no, it's a different choice I think than he had been making in the past. And part of me wants to the optimistic part of me wants to see that as a sign of progress. I mean, I think going from supporting Howard Stern's vile statements that are incredibly racist to saying Palaestins are also people who deserve safety is like, you know, again, that is it's a step.

We can call it.

Let's just call a step. I don't think it needs to be complimented. I don't think it needs to be like celebrated. It's just like a hey, so we did do and that's cool, you know. And I think that like a lot of the support for Israel is generational. So Adam Sandler just want to note what generation is he and he's how old is he?

Gen X?

Yeah, so there's actually been a real shift in like millennials and gen z around Israel. And I think a lot of it is that there's social media and that you can really see the harm that is being done into Palestindian So I think that there's that component of it that younger people are just a little bit more in the know about that sort of thing and a

Own thoughts, of course, of course, yeah, so I guess, yeah, unsurprising that he has these various stances over the years. But it feels like what so much of Hollywood is doing, which is just like remaining mostly silent on the.

Matter, right, which which is? Which is? Which is still saying something? Which is very.

Point to say something, because when a genocide is happening, and when a decades long subjugation of an entire population of people is not being acknowledged, that is being complicit and that is very much part of the violence.

I'm I'm a member of Jewish Voices for Peace, which is a nonprofit that's anti Sionist. I feel like that's important to say, and a big part of Jewish Voices for Peace is talking about how so many Jews have just like a deep understanding of what state sanctioned violence looks like and what a genocide looks like, because this is unfortunately, a big part of our history, from programs to blood libel claims and so much more all the way,

I can't.

I mean, yeah, I have felt so like heartened bias seeing work like the La branch of Jewish Voices for Peace is wonderful.

I've been going to a lot of events.

Actually, one of our previous guests on the show, Sammerfera, recently did an event with writers against the war on Gaza out here, and like it does feel, and I just like I've been tremendously educated by groups like these, and particularly by Palestinian writers, and I am glad for like and younger generations that there has been such movement because we have, you know, flawed tools, but tools to be able to better understand that makes the propaganda less

So we don't know, but something.

That I have seen just again of how this continues to affect. I mean, obviously we should be centering the Palestinian people first and foremost, but as sort of we see these issues continue to be discussed less and less in media. I was really surprised. There's a recent story where Gladiator Too just came out I'm going somewhere with this, and there was originally an Egyptian Palestinian actor, I hope I'm saying her name correctly, Mae Kalamawi, who was originally

I'm so like surprised. I guess at this point that that is like.

Not a story that seems to have broken through in any meaningful way, in spite of the fact that like the movie is out and doing very well.

So yeah, I don't know, it's.

Just I mean, it's just indicative of medias of Hollywood's of society's apathy. Yeah, if not outward cruelty and violence toward Palestinians, and it's so disheartening, and that's why we must continue.

That's why we must talk about eight Crazy Nights on the Betel cast.

If it's a vehicle for us to then also talk about Palestinian liberation.

Then yeah, we're also in the in the new year, going to be covering a few Palestinian films as well. Like we want to keep the conversation going. But yeah, we wanted to talk to you about it because I know you're you're involved with Jewish voices for peace and just in general are the best. I've learned so much from you. You've You've educated my whole family truly, Yeah about.

What well my brother lived with you.

Yeah, it's trying to radicalize your brother.

And then my dad visited you guys on the stoop during the pandemic and he learned things too.

He was like communist. Alex Is added again.

He called he called me the world's friendliest socialist.

I think he.

Gave me that feels like an attack on me.

As opposed to my daughter, who's the world's bitchiest socialist.

Because I just say in a really friendly way.

I'm like, wouldn't that be neat if?

Oh my gosh, anyway, thank you for talking with us about this, and yeah, does does anyone have anything else they want to talk about?

This movie sucks ass, it's quite bad. And if you think it's good, considered, did you see it when you were ten? And if not, there's something seriously wrong with you.

This is the time. Usually it's like, you love what you love.

If you love this movie, you're sick and need you need help?

Oh, we didn't talk about this, but very briefly did a woman talk to another woman ever in the course of the movie.

Because I tried to keep track of that.

I think that the closest it comes is when Eleanor tells them to kiss. But she's not just talking to Jennifer. She's also talking today, she's.

Talking to the royal Yeah, right, the collective we.

And the context is like, have a heterosexual kiss, please?

Yes?

Yeah, don't think it passes the Bechdel test even remotely. Yeah, Jennifer doesn't have any friends. Also, like if she was like on a basketball team with Davey when they were kids, Like she's a basketball player, why doesn't like there could have easily been a thing where like she's playing basketball with her son or shooting hoops or whatever like, but the movie doesn't care at all about characterizing her except to have her be like an attractive person that Davy can win as a trophy at the end.

Yeah, which is too bad because they give her like some potentially interesting characteristics but have no interest in exploring any of them, any of her interiority, Like she is just a cardboard cutout at them all, and I will give.

It to her that she's kind of the she's one of the few people who will call Davy out for his cruel awful behavior light he does it too, But that feels.

Very like attempted feminism of the time, where it's like they say one thing and then they do another. Because she still ends up with them at the end, like there's there is no real consequence other than a delay of less than a week, it seems like.

Well, also, there's a fine line between a character who we are not meant to like making reductive and problematic remarks to people and the movie framing that as being wrong, And there is some degree of that in this movie, because he does get called out quite a bit. But then the movie also relies on jokes that are like, for example, any time Whitey has a seizure or a lot of Whitey's behavior is like the movie making fun

Nice the end, I think I will do the same, and I have nothing else to say about it, like, honestly, yeah, what about.

You, Alex?

Yeah, I think negative five feels fair. Can I give it like negative stars of David too? Maybe like half a half a star of David? Just because like, where is the Hanukah? I saw some menorahs in the background. They were ice sculptures. That's it, basically, So I'm gonna give it half a star of David.

Hmm, That's all I got.

It's brutal I also, I think, as we've talked through this, I think now that in an earlier draft of the movie that Whitey and Eleanor were Jewish, and that's why the ending doesn't make sense. But then they changed it. Why they changed it is anyone's guess, but I would guess that they added that because they say it's in that one line that we that unfortunately introduces Whitey where he they're like, Whitey, you're.

Not even Jewish. He's like, I know. But so I don't know why they added that. They could have just taken it out.

Anyways, I have nothing else to say.

Well, Alex, thank you so much for joining us for this discussion.

Thanks for having me.

I'm sorry.

Tell us more about your your art and your work and where people can find you and plug away.

Excellent.

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, Zinnia Socialist Supply Company. I make radical art stickers, all sorts of stuff like that, lots of rent theme stickers as we discussed before, but don't worry, other musical theater stickers as well.

Thank god.

Yeah, I know we got to keep the all.

We need it all.

So you can find me on there and yeah, yeah, that's.

That you can get our stickers on our merch store. So but the best way to support our show is to go to patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast and subscribe to our Matreon where you get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access to the back catalog. Also, we have live shows coming up in La San Francisco and Portland, so if you go to link tree slash Bechtel Cast, you can grab tickets to those shows. We'd

And yeah, that's Alex.

We owe you a good movie, so come back with your favorite movie and we will cover that next.

That sounds amazing.

Come on board, all right, gang, and yeah, with on that note, let's.

This movie has been a technical foul.

Perfect Bye bye.

The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichtermann, edited by Moe laboord Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechdel Cast