On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and Best start changing it with the bel Cast. Hello, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our podcast in which it's really long and it really seems like it's heading somewhere, and then at the last second we tell you we're British.
O we it's go don of thieves heads will know. I'm like, I don't. Are there don of thieves heads out there? I have to you know, there's there's a lot of dad's out there. The But this is this is our podcast about movies. It is we take an intersectional feminist approach to analyzing movies, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point, which, of course is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our version of this test is
as follows. Uh, two people of a marginalized gender have to have names, and they have to speak to each other about something other than a man or at least two lines. There is there is a next. I think we just added a caveat though, because if it is yes, Um Jackson and suddenly having a British accent, it does automatically pass the Bechdel tests. There is correct, There are of course, you know, it's a complicated, ongoing conversation about
it's always it's always evolving. It's yeah, it's always evolving, it's always growing. Um. There's there's a lot of caveats that we keep including, and that is yes. That is a very important one. I think you'll agree. I agree, Um. But today we are going to do something a little different than we normally do, UM, because we have an incredible guest, Um that we want to talk about her most recent work before we kind of get into today's movie, which is den of Thieves, Um, which is the longest
movie in the entire world. Even though it's not the longest movie I've ever seen, it felt so long and it is in like I don't I'm like it is. I feel like it's a copaganda Ganda trend for the whole movie to appear like CPI a tone for reasons I don't know. Um, yeah, certain subgenres of copaganda do that. Yeah, it's a thing. But but first we we really wanted to spotlight our guests where she's really amazing. So let's let's get her in here. Yes, let's do it. She
is a freelance reporter. She is UH covering, has covered currently being released a story in knock l a entitled A Tradition of Violence the History of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. It's series Castle Welcome, Hi, welcome, than so much for having me. Of course you being here, We're yeah, we're super excited to talk to you about UM, about your your work and this. It's going to be thirteen parts, is that correct? Yeah, so that was our
original plan. Um. This week, UM, a bunch of information was released about the band Too's gang on Monday. There was some additional names attached to a lawsuit that was brought by a deputy against UM the Bandito's Gang at the East Los Angeles station. So that's sort of adding to my plate. So that series might get a little bit longer, just surpending on UM, you know what happens. But as of now, Gas thirteen parts incredible. I mean, as of as of this recording, five parts are out
and it's I mean, it's so well reported. Thank you so much for for doing it. I know how much you know labor had to have gone into it, and I want to make sure that our listeners UM sort of have a baseline of knowledge of of what the series is UM about. So could you tell us a little bit about, UM how you know, how you went about reporting this and UM kind of what the what the arc of of what you're talking about in this
series is. Yeah. So I this started when I received a list of litigation that the County of Los Angeles keeps track of of cases that were brought where deputies were alleged to be involved in deputy gangs. And from that case, it's about sixty different cases totaling about fifty
five million dollar ers in settlements. UM I just started looking into the different deputies that were involved in those cases, and it turned out that they had been involved in other shootings and other beatings and all other kinds of UM crime. And from there, UM I started putting things together and was able to UM sort of figure out
the history of deputy gangs in Los Angeles County. UM. They've been in existence since at least the early nineteen seventies, and over that time they have cost tax payers UM at least a hundred million dollars in settlement money UM from people that they have killed or beaten or otherwise UM physically harmed. UM. The deputy gangs have a lot
of influence UM. They generally are UM. Their members are in positions of power at different stations throughout the department, so they can UM in charge of things like scheduling, UM, who gets promoted, who UM goes out to, what call when? Who gets back up, who doesn't UM. They essentially run the department. UM. We know of about eighteen different gangs
UM that are present throughout the department. UM. There's probably more that we don't know about UM, but we have been able to come up with solid reporting on eighteen different gangs, and we are releasing what we found in this series that will be running through the end of the month. It's I mean, it's so incredibly well reported in the way that you're you're kind of laying it out historically of how far things go back, and it quickly becomes a very depressing UM. You know, what is
like the corkboard with five hundred strings attached. UM, because there is I mean it, there's so much overlap in the and you continue to see people who have murdered people being promoted and UM that your piece room today that I thought was fascinating and very bleak, was that internally, any whistleblower who even attempted to um, to speak out against something like that internally would be it seems like
consistently punished and never promoted. All right, So I go ahead, yeah, oh yeah, I was just gonna say that's the case for most of the whistleblowers. I mean, there were some cases that you know, I know about that unfortunately I wasn't even able to report on because they're under protective seal. That's UM an interesting element for a lot of these cases, you know, because a lot so many of them are settled.
Nine times out of ten they settle, a lot of this information remains secret when it doesn't go to trial, that stuff remains sealed, whereas when it does go to trial, it becomes public record. So a lot of these whistleblowers, when they settled, the Department had them sign agreements that they cannot speak about the terms of their settlement, their case, UM, you know, what their agreement was, etcetera. So there's a lot more dirt there that unfortunately, it's it's very difficult
to find out about. That's like, and the fact that you you have been able to report so much based on what is available, which sounds like a fraction of what actually has happened, speaks uh a lot. I'm curious about the process of UM reporting this story UM, and I feel like that it will be interesting to our listeners as well. I mean, I think you're you're sort of just referencing it. But what were the sort of UM roadblocks you were coming up against in the process
of reporting this story over the past is it six months? Yeah? Okay, yeah, I think probably the first UM roadblock UM one that I was quickly able to get over thanks to the help of knock l A is just the cost of this stuff. I mean, all this stuff is public record, but you still have to pay for it, and that quickly adds up. UM. Just reporting this piece cost about three thousand dollars alone. UM. Yeah, and there's there's a lot more that I want to continue to do, so
it will cost more money. But I think you know, that's one thing that people don't really think about, is you know, just like the access to this stuff. It's it's very hard to get, Like for me a journalist, like not to just like think how hard it might be to a family that's trying to you know, navigate the system and you know, get some kind of justice for their loved one. Another roadblock that I ran up against is just UM. You know, these files have a
habit of strangely disappearing UM. Even though these records are supposed to be kept UM, several of them had been destroyed when I went down to pick them up UM, and I never really got a full explanation of that. UM. The clerks that it had been a mistake or UM some unusual occurrence. I believe it was the term that he used. But there were several files that UM had been destroyed or they just couldn't locate that they were supposed to be in the courthouse, and when I went
down there, the clerk just couldn't find them. UM. There have also I've also had UM just like crazy sort of scenarios happened when I've tried to pick things up, Like I was trying to pick up something that was on micro film, and the the person working told me that the water main in the basement of the courthouse had broken and destroyed all the micro film and I would have to write a letter to the county UM explaining why I needed it, and then the county would
decide whether or not to grant my request. UM. And that's something that I'm still dealing with. But yeah, it can be. It can be really crazy trying to just like deal with it's you know, getting your hands on public records. There's always some like random obstacle that will pop up in your way, and it's not always clear why that's happening. Yeah, it's always, I mean, it is always. So it doesn't feel like it should be legal to charge such high rates to access what are I mean?
Then it's almost like, well I hesitate to even call it public records if they're if they're not available um to anybody. And introducing that cost barrier is such a huge thing, and it sounds like, um, you know, based on what you're just describing that it's a full time job, like getting your hands on on these records. And it's of course especially with UM with families and friends of
people who have been victimized by the police. They like, not everyone has that time, you know, it's like everyone has a live their lives, and that's UM so frustrating. I'm I'm glad that you were able to, you know, kind of get as much as as you did, but it sounds incredibly frustrating and complicated. UM oh yeah, oh yeah. You have to like make appointments to go down there. Um. Everything is time limited because of COVID protocols UM, which
adds a whole other layers. Sometimes if your record is UM past a certain year, UM, they just won't give it to you. UM. And that's something that I'm dealing with right now. There are some records that I wanted that they're past a certain cutoff date, and because that they're in a room that is reserved for old records, I've been told that they're just not going into that room because of coronavirus and there is no end date to COVID, So they're telling me that there's theoretically no
date that they'll be going into that room, which is illegal. UM. But you know, like I said, you get all kinds of crazy things when you're when you're trying to navigate that. Yeah. Especially, it's like I don't even understand that argument of like, oh, coronavirus is lurking in that no one goes into like it doesn't make it sounds like an excuse. It sounds like a lot of these quote public records are like
public with a lot of caveats. Yeah. Um, to get into a little more, I I really um appreciated how at the beginning of and we're gonna link um that all the pieces for um, if you're listening the it will be linked in the description of this episode. But um, you open each um section by listing what the legal definition of a gang is, and then um, each installment sort of um, you know, unpacks another element or incident um that the L A s. D. Gangs have committed.
Uh So I wanted to just read that definition because I know that particularly it seems like older people sometimes have difficulty wrapping their head around gangs within the police and they're like, well, how how how could that be? And you lay it out at the beginning and of every single piece. Um, so it's oh my gosh, it's under section one six point to two of the California
Penal Code. UM, a criminal gang is described as any organization or group of three or more people that one has a common name or identifying sign or symbol, two has as one of its primary activities the commission of one of the long list of California criminal offenses, and three whose members have engaged in a pattern of criminal gang activity, either alone or together. And so, of course the sheriff's gangs you're reporting on very much, uh fit
that description. So I wanted to ask, just for our listeners who aren't really aware, what are the kind of through lines of activities it happened with in these gangs and um, yeah, just kind of common patterns that you identified throughout the reporting process. Yeah. The the one, you know, commission of crime that we've seen in you know, almost every gang that we've covered is of course murder. Um. No,
we've also seen extortion of other deputies in the station. Um. They'll hold these what they call fund raisers where it's unclear where the money is exactly going, and they'll pressure their colleagues into giving them money. UM. Paul Tanaka actually UM had this special cigar smoking club at the Sheriff's headquarters and you could get in if you gave them five hundred dollars. Um, that's a big one. They regularly beat people up. Um, I've heard accounts of rape. UM.
So I mean, like it's really anything mhm. It's in particularly in the I think it's the third piece Lynwood's Worst Nightmare that details the crimes of the Vikings Gang is you know, have heavy content warning, but was just so completely eye opening for me that those were crimes that I had never heard about before, and it seems like it was just they were absolutely rampaging and targeting you know, black and brown people in Lyndwood NonStop for
for weeks and months. Yeah. Yeah, that the Lynwood stuff. I mean that that went on for years. And one thing that really um makes me really upset is just hearing about, um, hearing from some of the deputies that participated in this stuff. Um. You know, one guy that I wrote about in in that piece was Cliff Yates, who went on to be involved in the beating death of a man at Men's Central Jail about twelve years ago, almost to the day. That man's name was John Horton
UM and Cliff Yates, UM. You know, he went on to have he was promoted within the department. Um, he retired and receives a six figure pension. UM. He lives in Florida, and as far as I know, he was never really disciplined UM for any of the incidents that I'm that I know that he was involved in. UM. He's written a book where he details his career as a law enforcement officer over the past thirty years. UM.
He describes police work as hunting for humans UM. And he's just like, I'm very frightened really by how someone can view UM their work in a in a way like that, Like how they can look at the terror that they inflicted on a community and such a in such a distorted light. It really frightens me. Absolutely. Yeah, it's in the I don't know, it's just the normalization
of that attitude. It's like, I don't know, something that you you know, but then just just hearing it come out of someone's mouth, and to know that they're being they're absurdly wealthy, you know, and then they're like still living on the taxpayers dime after not being held to account for murder, and and now they're you know, living in a mansion in Florida. Whatever it is that UM that they're doing. Yeah, I I Um, that piece in particular, really was I mean, it's disturbing like that, the way
in the in the way that it's laid out. UM. Yeah, I guess another question that I had, were there any I guess in the process of reporting this, Were there any moments where you truly like, were there is there like one moment that kind of sticks out when interview just um, yeah, because I know it was such a
long process. Um. God, I would say probably there are several moments that stick out, And I would say the ones that really stick with me are when I contact a family to tell them that the person that killed their loved one killed somebody else. Um. And that really sucks. Um. And that's probably like what sticks with me the most, just being that like bearer of bad news um, and just like having to tell them that, you know, like
your case didn't really make a difference. Um, nothing changed, This person was promoted, this person is still on the streets like doing the same ship that he did to your family. UM. And that just like really brings the story home to me. I mean that's like, you know why I did it. I Mean, this stuff has been going on for years. I've been hearing about gangs in
the Sheriff's apartment since I was a kid. Um, So you know, I hope that by talking about it and bringing more attention to this, we can hopefully see some changes in the structure. Absolutely, I mean I I sincerely hope that this series ends up having a demonstrable effect because there's there's just just so so much. It's overwhelming. Um yeah, I'm I'm And that sounds incredibly emotionally taxing for for everyone. I mean yeah, for for for you
and for the families, and it's just absolutely brutal. But I'm I'm glad that Um it's you know, there's been light shed on it, um, and so I guess, uh to to kind of close out unless there's stuff we haven't touched on that you would like to Um, what do you you know? But by the time this series has concluded, what do you hope, um, people take away from it or what effect do you hope that that the series has? Ah? Well, I mean, I'd love everyone
in Los Angeles County who have read the series. I don't know how realistic that is, but that that would be my dream. I would love everyone in l A County just to be aware of what's happening in the department these you know, I think I really think this has been able to be an open secret for the past fifty years, and I think we really knew people actively engaged and talking about it. UM. That would be my primary goal. I'd love to I'd love to see the Board of Supervisors UM call me in to talk
about my reporting. And you know, I'd love to help them with an investigation. I'd love to assess, like any anyone with an investigation, I'm happy to turn over what I know. UM, That's what I'd love to see. UM. I think at the very minimum, there needs to be an audit of the department. UM. At the minimum. And there are people that have been in this space for a lot longer than I have that have come up
with some great solutions. UM that you know, if people are so inclined to engage with that, like, I'd really recommend checking them out, like to check the Shaff Coalition for example. UM. Yeah, I'd love to see more people tapped in with them. UM. That's what I'd love to see. Yeah, absolutely, And I would recommend. I mean, even if you live outside of l A County, it's the lessons and that you and and what you can take away from having
read this series is applicable to anyone. UM, you know, living in a place with the Sheriff's Department like the l A s D is egregiously bad. But it's not like you know, these crimes are beholden to l A like that. It's it's widely applicable reporting that everyone should
definitely UM check out. And and I do think it's UM it's great that not l A was able to help fund and publish it as well, because it seems like the kind of report that you know, it could only be done at an independent news source where it seems like there's always so many UM blockages when you when you're working with a huge mainstream source, which I know you have. UM, I just think that they don't want to do it to be perfect really honest with
you speak to that. I'm so curious, UM what your thoughts on that are, because I know you've worked on kind of both both sides of that line. Yeah, I mean, just to be candid, I mean, this information has been out there for the past fifty years. Major institutions have had the funding UM to go after this information. They've had the access to the information. UM. The reason that they didn't do it, and from where I'm standing is
it just wasn't an interest. This affects black and brown people, This affects low income people, and those aren't communities that newspapers have seen or not just newspapers, but that major media outlets have not viewed as a priority. UM really ever, So that's why it didn't get done. It's the same reason that the Grim Sleeper UM, a serial killer in South Los Angeles was able to terrorize the community for almost forty years and kill with impunity that never really
got any news coverage. It's the same reason why deputy gangs in those same neighborhoods don't get any news coverage. Absolutely, yeah, I thank you, thank you for your insight on that too, because it's UM. It's also it's shocking just reading through your reporting, how you know like it it would have taken reporting and funding, but like you say, it has it's not like there's ever been any shortage of available
funds to do that. It's the willingness and UM prioritizing uh black and brown people in reporting, which just doesn't seem to ever happen in mainstream reporting. Um, yeah, I is there is there anything else you want to hit on before we kind of start transitioning into den of thieves stuff. Yeah, I would just say, um, you know, please check out the series, and you know, we've talked about how expensive this is. If you're so inclined, like,
please send a dollar to to the knock Patreon. I'd love to continue doing this research and you know, any help I can get as much appreciated. Absolutely, and I guess I should full disclosure and say that I right there as well. I was like, I don't know what the right point in the episode to put it is,
but it's now. Um yeah, thank you, yeah, thank you again for doing this reporting and putting in all of this time and effort to shed light on this thing that I'll admit I really didn't know anything about until I started reading Your Peace. I knew about, you know, corruption and racism and violence inflicted on different communities by law enforcement, but I didn't know the extent to which they were like things you could, like you can classify
as gangs operating in the sheriff's department. So I was I was just like, oh, well, I mean it makes sense, but but I just didn't know anything about it. So, yeah, thank you again for for doing this reporting and shedding light on this. Yeah, it's my pleasure so to kind of transition into what into like getting us to den of thieves stuff, because there's so much to talk about their. UM. We really want to talk with you about how cops
are presented to us in media. It's something we've talked about in this on the show before, but I don't think extremely in depth. UM. And Yeah, I guess I'm just kind of curious of your um, your opinion on how particularly movies for our purposes, but how media UM has very deliberately shaped what our view of cops and and in this case specifically UM, the Sheriff's Department has been over the years. Yeah, I've been watching a lot of cop um media UM while reporting this piece. UM,
I've just really been living with it. My favorite Hell, I don't know, I just I don't know. I've really like solidly in like corrupt cop world. My favorite show right now is The Shield, which is UM a whole other thing. UM. But yeah, I one thing that really fascinates me about how cops are presented and all of these cases is that they're Um, they're always sort of given this um personality of like the the hard charging,
like badass rule breaker. Um, they're never like we never hear a story about a quote unquote like good cop who like does every thing by the book. Um, you know, has like a good relationship with their community. It's always these like assholes that are shooting everybody and like that's accepted as really cool in the world that they live in.
It's so and it's like even there's a moment in then of Thieves that I will get to where it's like, yeah, if if a cop is like doing something by the book, like everyone just calls him a dork and they like call him a loser and make fun of his shoes and then continue to uh break the law, it's yeah wild. Yeah. The framing of a lot of like just movies and
media about cops is yeah, you're totally right. It's like these you know, I don't play by the ruse kind of cowboys that they're they're but they're still framed is like the heroes who do this competent police work and who saved the day and who catch the quote bad guys and you know, just like all the framing of this, um which it is like straight up propaganda this you know this, And I didn't even again I'll admit that, like I didn't. I fell for it for so long,
and um, it's just like oh God. And then and then of Thieves, I mean, we'll get into it, but it's it's doing a lot of the same stuff that we've seen before, except it's five hours long and like so absurdly, I who and then he's British at the end, and then and then I feel like we all really learned something. Um, well, should we take a quick break and then come back and get into the movie? All right, we'll be back in a moment, and we're back. We're back.
Um so yeah, I I donna Thieves. Is I mean ripe for discussion of how cops and how specifically the L A s D is portrayed in mediate series. You probably you definitely know way way more about this than we do. Is this, does the L A s D is are they? Like? I know, the L A p D comes up in movies and media constantly, but does the l S l A s D come up very
much in in media that you know of? Yeah, I've actually started compiling a list of m l A law enforcement in media as far as l A s D to my knowledge, Um, they have a documentary about them called l A County seven that was produced for TV I believe in the late eighties or early nineties. Den of Thieves of course. Um. And there's a recent movie out with Jared Leto and Denzel Washington called The Little Things, which and Robbie Malick, and that's about the Los Angeles
County Sheriff's apartment as well. Is there anything you've seen that you feel like? I haven't seen The Little Things, Um yet I forgot that it came out, honestly, but like it is. Are there any portrayals of the l A s D that you think have been appropriately critical that has come out or is it mostly kind of like badass cop stuff? Um? I've never seen anything critical of law enforcement in a movie or television show. I mean,
I like to say that this shield is satire. Um, But my girlfriend just sort of rolls her eyes at me and walks away when I bring that conversations at the table the Galaxy brain take, Yeah, I was thinking of I was going through just kind of like the list of episodes we've done that I was like, oh there, Yeah, the protagonists of this movie is like a night Like even movies like fucking Fargo. You're like, oh no, I've I've been duped into thinking that, like, well cop is
a woman now, so it's all all good. It's like, oh yeah. The media around a sheriff's department, not the Los Angeles one but that. But that I've been most exposed to has been Reno on One, which is a show that I do love and think is very funny, but it's like one of the things that duped me where I'm like, oh, this show about these sheriffs, they're all such lovable goofs t he and uh that's probably
not how they actually are in real life. Yeah, there's it's it's it is over like it's genuinely overwhelming of how much copaganda there is and how many genres it spans, because like you're saying, Caitlin, like, there's cop comedies, and there's like you know, there's kind of the the Den of Thieves genre of like Sepia toned intense glorification of being a horrible cop, and then there's like the procedurals. There's just there's it's so pervasive that it's I don't know, yeah,
I got um. I became overwhelmed by it. And then there's literally the show Cops, which is like every um my, my uncle's love it so much and it is so harmful and scary. Um. But yeah, so today we're we're kind of zoning in. Um um. I guess this is like more of what I think of automatically when I think of copaganda, is like the den of thieves, vibe of the badass cop who he can't leave his work
at work. And there were like moments in this movie where I was I guess I was like kind of like you watching the Shield series, where like are they are they trying to say something critical? But then in the next thing you're like, oh, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding, He's amazing. He just drinks a little bit. Like it's just so it's a lot, let's talk about it. Yeah. Um, well, I guess is the um Should I just do the recap? Then? Well, yeah, discuss, yes,
feel free to jump in during the recap. I can't tell if this movie has a really convoluted plot or if it's like three sentences long. The plot doesn't make any sense. There are several like key plot holes, like the first being that oh, Jackson like couldn't have joined the Marine Corps with a juvenile criminal record, Like I didn't think of that. Yeah. Also, there's so many like convenient things that happen, like the ordering of the food
and getting delivered and the exact right, like I don't know. Yeah, So here's the story that doesn't make a lot of sense. Um by Christian Buda Gast. I like to like that. It's it's an outtour piece by Mr Christian Buda Gast and we're like who um. So the movie opens with like text on the screen with statistics that say, um, that in Los Angeles, uh, which is the bank robbery capital of the world. Um, banks are robbed times a year. Uh. We see then an armored car being robbed. The cups
show up. There's a big shootout between the gang of robbers or the Den of Thieves and yeah, them and the police and the Den of thieves managed to escape with the armored car and the their leader is Ray Merriman. UM. Fifty cent is also there playing a character whose name I never figured out. Um, my favorite I heard about the fifty cent character is that at one point because he like works out in his garage and you see he has a stadium arcadium red hot chiliea yester. I
was like, wait, does that get's in my notes? I was like, whose poster is that the stadium arcadium? My mind? I was like his cent my brother, Like what going on? I loved that little character detail. He's a red hot chili pepper. His fan his name Hagan. Let me look at IMDb. His name is oh ensign Laveau. Yeah. Um. And then Donnie is also there. That's o'she Jackson Jr. Um. There's also this guy named Bosco, so that's that's the Den of Thieves. Then we cut to big nick a K.
Gerard Butler himself. Wait that that that is? Who? Oh my gosh, that completely slipped my mind. Yeah, it's the unfortunate truth that he played the Phantom of the Opera really badly. Holy sh it. I don't know who I thought it was, but I did not remember it being Gerard Butler. Wow, um, and settle you with that. I'm broken, so broken right now. M Gerard Butler and I I was an extra on a movie that he was the star of. If anyone remembers. I think it was called
The Bounty Hunter for Anniston's also in it. Um, I was an extra in that movie. You're welcome, everybody, congratulations. Um, Gerard Butler and I did make eye contact on that set for a brief moment, and um, that is my that's my story about Gerard Butler. Anyway, his career is very um all over the place. There's just like a lot going because wasn't he in that movie p S. I Love You? Is that was that him? Or remember
that Irish guy? Yes? Oh he was like dead husband and damn I that movie was really forced down my throat in like middle school or whenever I came in. He's also in that. There's a rom com it's called like The Ugly Truth or something with with Katherine Heigel. I want to say, isn't it He's It's just he's got what we're saying wild. Um, yeah, he's He's. It's but it's like he really he's bad. He's been bad in every genre. It's really interesting. He's a great example.
Yeah yeah, yeah, he's He's really blown it in so many different genres. I almost respect it. Yeah. Okay, So anyway, Big Nick is the head of Major Crimes of the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. I think, I don't know what anyone's title is, but he's in charge of this investigation. He goes to the crime scene. We learned that the armored truck that the den of thieves stole was empty, and so they're like, well, why would they steal an empty ruck? What's going on? And how did they know
about the drop offs and the roots and all this stuff? Um, And then they know of Merriman. Merriman if what is his name, Mary Mary Mary Merriman and his band of Merryman to either of you remember he was like in a bunch of Disney Channel original movies, Ryan Merriman. He played the little leprechron in Luck of the Irish. That's who I was thinking of the entire movie. That actors in a bunch of d cops he said, like old old ones, like he was in Luck of the Irish.
He I think he was decapitated in Final Destination three, amongst other Those are his top two credits I could think of. Of course, Wow, Okay, so they know about Merriman and they think that he might behind it. He might be like behind this rubbery. Where did they get his name from? Like, we don't literally just were like, what if it's Merriman? Like I did not even think. I was like, I guess I just didn't question it. But they didn't, like they just they just knew about it. Yeah,
he's famous. He's a famous den of thief. Um. So he So then Nick pays a visit to Donnie, who the cops um you know, to be an associate of Merriman. I'm not really sure how they know that either, but anyway, ah, Nick and his deputies interrogate Donnie, and Donnie breaks and tells them that he is, in fact kidnap. They kidnap him, Yeah, they they him. They kidnap him, take him to a hotel room where they're partying with some sex workers. Unceremoniously.
I was like, I don't even even think they got featured extra, Like they unceremoniously are they're dismissed from the scene without ever having said a word. They're just and they were just guided out and you're like, oh, okay, And they are the first women who even appear on the screen in the entire movie. And it takes about twenty minutes for them to show up. So until then, it's just a lot of toxic men, and then it's still a lot of toxic men after that. But sometimes
you see a woman sprinkled throughout a scene. Um, okay, So yeah, Nick abducts Uh and interrogates Donnie, and Donnie breaks and tells him that he is a driver from Merriman, and he tells him about a previous job they pulled together, and then Nick, let's Donnie go, and he's like, we'll be in touch. Another thing I want to bring up is that in that scene he shows Donnie his regulator tattoo, Which, Okay, let's let's because I felt like those early scenes were the most specific to the l A. S D and
break it down for us. Yeah, so I mean that whole interrogation thing, like I've read through um like reviews that the county puts out of incidents that officers get in trouble for it, and that's like not too far off from some real instances that I've read about with l A County Sheriff's deputy is um the tattoo, I mean, that's a real deputy gang. The Regulators is a deputy gang that operated out of the Century Station. Um, and yeah, I mean all of that is very very true, looking
very not true, far from reality. Um, that's that's how these deputy gangs go down. It's so and it's it's like the way it's presented is so bizarre too, because it, especially after reading your reporting, you're like, oh, this is something that could conceivably have happened, but we're not supposed to think it's bad. Like it's the way that it's framed to the viewer is so manipulative and bizarre, even though it seems like it's showing some pretty true to life,
um interaction potential interactions. Yeah, yeah, I almost like missed it the first time I watched the movie. He was just like, see my tattoo where what you might call part of a gang. And then yeah, at least we're a clique, which is what which is the term that you know people in law enforcement currently is when they're talking about these gangs, like they're very happy to admit most of the time under oath that they're part of a clique a deputy click. Um. So yeah, I mean
that was very true to life. Two things that he said that I wrote down was we just shoot you it's less paperwork, um, which I mean yeah, I mean attorneys have told me as much that it's easier for these deputies to kill people rather than have them live. When they live. They've had an attorney say to me, that's the deputy's worst nightmare because they can challenge the police as narrative of them being in fear for the life, and it just makes things a lot harder. So yeah,
that attitude is very true to life. Um. He also tells Donnie, you're not the bad guys we are, which is again it's like it's so it like made my head hurt, um Like, because if you see that on paper, you're like, oh, yeah, that seems to be pretty accurate. But the way that the movie frames it and the where that like exists in context with the rest of the story makes it seem like this like bizarre joke.
I don't know. It's so I kept, yeah, I kept expecting like the arc of the rest of the story to go very very differently, that like you'd see more examples of them being the bad guys in a way that like the movie is actually framing them as being the bad guys, but the movie frames them as like Nope, they're good at police, and they're the people you're supposed to be rooting for. I think I don't know who you're supposed to be rooting for in this movie, actually
because I found no one to be redeemable. No, no one was redeemable. But I mean I definitely wasn't rooting for the regulators. Um. I mean I think as far as like when we're looking at like who did the most harm? Like, I think the den of thieves like hurt a lot less people, right. I think Donnie's worst crime was, you know, giving those two poor women some expired Chinese hoods. It does seem like they were mostly uh yeah, I mean it was like they were the
crimes were victimless. They were taking money. Oh maybe that's wait. I just had a moment. I think I know why he's called merry men. Is it like, isn't that a Robin hood thing? Robin and taking from the rich and giving to the Oh, my seventh grade English teacher is
so th hells right now? Um yeah, it's like that they were not hurting anybody in there, or at least originally, it seems like, I mean, the regulators are Throughout the plot um, like hurting people, at least if they you know, like you're introduct like your introduction to o'sh Jackson in any details him being abducted and physically harmed and all sorts of offensive, like they say racist stuff to him, they say homophobic stuff to him. They it's just they
locked his body in a really weird way. It's so like there. But then the marketing for this movie, so I think that that was I would be really curious to know the the editing process for a script like this, or like if the original draft of this script could have potentially been more ambiguous, I guess, than than what
you kind of end up with. But the marketing definitely wants you to think good guys versus bad guys, Like even down to the way that the poster is designed, it's the bad guys are like in like their upside down, and the good guys a k a. As the movie would have you believe that the regulators are like in the kind of dominant position. And I was even watching,
I was curious what the press tour for this movie was, like. Um, so I watched and it was mostly just like fift and Gerard Butler being friends in a way that was like I don't need to watch this, um, but I watched them. But but they would also present the story, uh in that way, like when introducing the movie, it's like, oh, you know, it's like a good guy bad guy. It's kind of like Heat a movie I've never seen but I know is about cops. Another long boring like Tuk
that movie. Ah, but but I just found it, like yeah, like that this at least the marketing narrative for this movie, even though there are lines like we are the bad guys, is that the regulators are in fact the good guys, or that's the pitch. It's very it's so it made my head hurt. And part of what like and we'll talk about this too, but the well, what's what happens next in the story is that um Nick's his wife
leaves him because he's been cheating on her. But I feel like the women are there too, like humanize Big Nick a bit and like make us feel empathy or try to make the audience feel empathetic towards him. Um So that's that's happening. He's being divorced. Um And then meanwhile, Merriman, Donny and the rest of the den of thieves, UH start make start making plans to rob the Los Angeles branch of the Federal Reserve, which is the only bank in l A that's never been successfully robbed because it's
under such tight security. And their plan is that an average of thirty million dollars in cash gets destroyed every day, which I was curious if that's true, because if it is, what a horrifying fact um A great idea, just there's literally So they're planning to rob this thirty million dollars in cash on this particular day and it gets destroyed because it's considered like old and unfit um, which means that it's untraceable and no one's going to be looking
for it, so they're going to try to steal it. Um. Meanwhile, Nick and his crew of deputies start tailing uh Merriman's den of thieves. They're fucking with them, They're letting them know you we're on to you. Uh. And then Donnie is kind of playing both sides. You know, He's he's telling the cops stuff about this heist. He's telling Merriman
that he's been talking to the cops. You know, he's kind of in the middle This is where the part of the movie that I began to grow very confused, Like, there's the middle of this movie is really long, and I couldn't I don't. I didn't understand what was going on well enough to tell when someone was lying about what was going on, and UM ended up really becoming distressed.
I did not know what right. And then okay, so then the before the big heist, the Den of Thieves rob a small local bank, which Big Nick has been tipped off about, so he heads there. Um, but the robbers, the Den of Thieves, they don't do their usual thing. This time. They make demands, they take and kill hostages, or so we are led to believe. Um, but wait
a minute. Turns out that this was all to create a diversion to distract the cops and give the Den of Thieves time to pull off the real heist at the Federal at the Federal Reserve, which Nick eventually figures out is what's happening, And then we see the heist in progress. They use the armored truck that they stole to pose as And I don't know if they're like guys who work for the Federal Reserve or it's like some entity that like drops the money off at the
serve from the banks. So they pretend to be these guys. They drop off the money that they stole from this small bank um at the Federal Reserve. Donnie is inside one of the containers of money and then we see him do a bunch of heist stuff when when they like a little cube, You're like, oh, it's nice. They were like twenty minutes of this movie that I was like, oh, I'm this is because I love a heist movie. I love to watch a heist and I was I was like, Okay,
this is this is fun. I'm enjoying this. They they're cutting the power, you know, there's all that kind of heisty stuff fall very national treasure. It's exciting. Yeah. So then um, Donnie gets the money that was going to be destroyed. He prevents it from being shredded. He puts it in bags and then he throws it in I guess like a trash shoot. And then all of the
den of thieves managed to escape. Uh. They high jack the dump truck and get the bags of money, but oh no, Big Nick and his deputies pick up Donnie. Then they find the rest of the robbers there's this huge shootout with all of the Den of thieves being It's like so many cars around them, Um, how many civilian casualties were? Like it seemed like they're the highway was full of people, but then all of a sudden there were only the four main cast members like it was.
It was was so confusing, I'm not sure. Um. So they kill all the car the deputy, the Sheriff's kill the den of thieves. But wait a minute, the money that they stole, it's not there. And then when Nick gets back to his car, Donnie has escaped because it turns out Donnie was the mastermind of the whole heigh He had been tricking everyone. He's the one who got
the money. And then we cut to him in London with a British accent that I I Am not sure how authentic we're convincing it is, um, and he's you know, he's planning another heist. He goes diamond exchange drinks on me. Mates. You're like, okay, sure, so that's the story. Let's take another quick break and then we'll come back to discuss car back. Um, I guess to start um series, we we we sort of talked a little bit about the the interrogation scene at the beginning of the movie already
when they kidnapped Donnie. Um, were there other um elements Uh, regardless, kind of I guess regardless to start of how they're being framed, But were there other specifics about the L A s. D. That jumped out to you in in the way UM that this movie is kind of written and presented. Yeah, it was really just like sort of like taken by like how many references to the gangs that they were in this movie. I Mean there's that
scene UM where he shows the tattoo and he's beating Donnie. UM. Donnie also makes reference to being incarcerated at Wayside UM, which is a facility that's home to another deputy gang called the Wayside Whitey's, which UM is like a KKK type gang that regularly terrorizes UM black inmates. UM. So that was also just sort of like huh okay, like
another open secret. UM. Gerard Butler big Nick when they're outside the bank and they're sort of running surveillance on this UM smaller bank that the den of Thieves is going to rob UM, he says that they let it go down because the Dunafee has had to commit a
crime um in order for them to do something. As soon as they got out of the car with those assault rifles, the crime was being committed, which I mean it tracks um as far as the L A S d UM just sort of like you know, letting things happen and stepping in, you know, when they think it will be to their advantage. There have been several cases like that that I've covered. Um. Yeah, that seemed very
realistic to me. Wow, it's it. So this movie is written and directed by Christian Gooda Gast, who is from what I can tell, he's soap opera nepotism and also Caitlin relevant to our interest, the guy who plays John Jacob asked her in Titanic Christian Gourda Ghast is his son, so he's also Titanic nepotism. Whoa John Jacobaster the richest man on the ship famously the riches man on the ship. R I P. It's just kidding. He probably was horrible, UM,
but Christian Goods is nepotism of that. UM. I would be really curious to know where his because it does seem like you're saying series he's referencing a lot of hyper specifics UM and he grew up in l A. So I'm like, it maybe is some cultural osmosis going
on there. And then I also read that UM there was a former special agent that consulted on this movie as well, So it sounds like it's very possible that they had consulted someone who had been somehow affiliated with the l A. S D to make this movie, which sort of opens up something that I feel like we we've talked about in passing over the years, which is that you know when you're writing about or when they're It's like often when there's movies that are about cops
or especially about the military, UM consultants are brought on who are very pro cop and pro military, and it's you never see consultants being brought on to a movie like this that have the same knowledge base but would be perhaps critical of murder, Like I feel like we
we hear that all the time with UM. I forget what the what the job title is, but there's like a high ranking military person whose job is to work with Hollywood and say, okay, you can use our tanks and transformers if you get a B and C. You know, sneaking into the movie, and it's such a traceable pattern that I would guess whatever consulting was done on this movie is kind of the same, the same thing as going on year. Um. Yeah, I wish I knew more
about the consulting process with this movie. There's it seems like people were really not interested in this movie because I couldn't find a lot about the production other than um, Gerard Butler love going on talk shows together and chatting. Um, that's all. But but yeah, I think that the consulting process on movies like this is really critical because it is like, it's bizarre that there's that level of specificity
in a completely uncritical way. M Well, I would also argue that because I watched this movie for the first time before I had read any of the parts of your piece on these Gangs in the Sheriff's Department in l A. And I don't know if I'm just dense, but like I again, I I was aware of like just the trope of you know, cops in movies, you know, being these kind of hard ass I don't play by the rules. I do my own thing, and that's how
I catch the bad guys. Sort of just like mentalities, especially for the big Nick character, but like the references to the gang he's in, Like I just kind of missed that, you know, I know he's like pointing out a tattoo, but I don't I don't know like what
exactly that was in reference to. So even though there are these specific references, I think if you don't already have some kind of baseline of knowledge about these gangs in sheriff's apartments, which I'd imagine the general public doesn't know that much about, which is why it's so important for everyone to read your writing series. But like I was just like, oh, and so I didn't even connect the dots really until after I had read the parts
that have been published so far of your writing. So, um, I guess I was. I ended up being just very surprised that how not prized. But I was expecting, um, if there are going to be these references in the movie, that it would that it would be more critical about it.
But again, the framing of these of these deputy characters in the movie is like, yeah, they're grizzled, they're rough around the edges, they drink, they smoke, they cheat on their wives, they get divorced, you know, all these things, but ultimately, at the end of the day, they're good cops and they're doing good work and where you know,
we're supposed to be rooting for them. And even though the three of us watching this movie are not rooting for Big Nick and his deputies because of how we know, uh, like just all of the horror and terror and everything that cops inflicts on the communities they're supposed to be protecting. Um, they are not redeemable to us. But again, I think the movie is like framing them is like, Nope, these are the good guys. See see how empathetic they are. Oh,
don't you feel bad for him? He's crying because he can't see his daughter like that kind of stuff. Yeah. The way that daughters are bandied about in this goddamn movie is so it's it is like the you're referencing
this earlier Caitlin. But yeah, the the way that uh, the women in this movie are used are generally too endeare you to uh male character, especially the daughters with juror Oh, my god, Gerard Butler, like my daughter and my daughter and my daughter I'm so sick of Like he's like just God, I've my daughter culture we gotta
kill it. It's so boring and manipulative in the way that it's kind of weaponized because you could, I mean, you could take them my daughter of it all out of Gerard Butler's storyline, and the only result of it would be that you would like his character less, which this movie seems pretty invested in you, uh, remaining somehow like somewhat loyal to him. Um. And then you kind of get a similar moment with fifty cents character where I don't know in the way that the daughters are ustress.
It's just so corny and trophy too, because for fifty like, this is my daughter's prom date. You better not be mean to my daughter or or all of my friends will. And then it's like, God, it's so corny. It's a scene we've seen a bazillion times. It's scary and possessive. And then he closes the door and it's a stadium arcadium poster and I'm like, and the daughter never comes back, and like they never see her again. We don't even
know how the prom went. I was invested. Um. I love how win Gerard Butler's daughter has a line on screen her. The first thing she says to her other is what are you doing? Same valid question question, especially after because his his his wife just said to him like,
you smell really bad. And then he got extremely close to his very young daughter, and I was like, stinky Gerard Butler getting close to his kid to get I don't know, I mean, I guess the one act of agency that a woman has in the whole movie is Gerard Butler's wife being like, Nope, we're getting out of here, um,
which again was something that I thought. I don't know why I kept like, I just like, there were a few moments where I'm like, oh, benefit of the doubt, maybe this is going somewhere, and then it never was. But it's I thought it was interesting. I guess interesting
is as close as you'll get. But um, that they gave Gerard Butler like a disastrous home life, and they made it like the movie went really out of its way to show that he was just a plague to everyone in his personal life, um, and that he was pretty like unloved by his family, which I feel like it is. I mean that that's doesn't necessarily happen in
all copaganda movies. A lot of times you have like the like a cop that has a very well structured home life and maybe he goes rogue a little bit and maybe he like focks around with other women, but he still has this like nuclear family unit. But that's not I mean, it's very much not the case for him. I was wondering because there is such a well documented high rate of domestic abuse and um coming from cops, usually to their wives, but just to their spouses in general.
I was like, is that where this is going? But then it was It turns out it was going actually nowhere. Yeah, there's that very long scene where he like shows up to his wife's like little dinner party one of her other friends. What was going on there? And he's like terrorizing everybody, And I'm just like, again, like, who are we supposed to be rooting for in this movie? Because
everyone's so toxic and awful. I think that was supposed to sort of like put her in a bad light, right because she was there with her boyfriend, and which I think was supposed to be imply at all, like she's been unfaithful as well. Everyone is right, and like when you when you first meet her, it's in the same scene that she's leaving him, so again, like I look at that, I'm like, yes, you were clearly very justified in leaving this very shitty Why did you marry
this person? Is my question. But the way that these scenes like this get framed in movies in like just sort of the way that storytelling manipulates audiences, is it makes us like we're not meant to like that his wife character or side with her because of like she's doing something mean to the guy that we're supposed to be rooting for. So yeah, and then he just shows up at his daughter's like playground at school, and no
teachers being like who is this man? Don't talk to this weird man who's lingering at a playground, like what it's so like? Yeah, him lingering at a playground was I was like, Oh, I need to get me out of here, get me out of here, and I don't want to be here anymore. I it's I. I I was so confused, like what are we supposed to in what world is this going to endear you to this man? And then I was just like, well, you know, um,
we're clearly not the target audience for this movie. I would honestly I'm just like, I want to talk to whoever the target movie, Like who is the target audience for this movie? And I would like to have a word with them because they have they have a twisted mind.
Um yeah, the way that and that's mainly I mean, that's kind of the only way that in terms for for in terms of talking about like maybe this movie obviously doesn't pass the Bechdel test, Like women are just there too make you feel away about a good guy or a bad guy. And I think, well, another the other female characters you have. You have a number of sex workers who are presented nameless, faceless, usually as set dressing, um and either to be shamed or to be set dressing.
And then you have um, what's his name, Leev Schreiber's brother, Pop, what's Merriman? Uh, Merryman, Merriman's girlfriend or his wife, I'm not sure which. Wait, he's leave Schreibers. Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's a lot of nepotism going on in this time. It's nepotism top to bottom, except well, actually, I guess Leave Schreiber's brother, and o'she Jackson Jr. Is ice Cube's son, and Christian Guda Gasta is John Jacob Astor from Titanic Son.
So whatever nepotism feels the world, we know this. Um. But yeah, so so that Merriman's partner, I don't know. I don't know, like really, um what their relationship is because the movie doesn't tell you, but he weaponizes her as well and kind of sens her out on. Can someone explain to me what was going on there? Because I was confused? I mean, it didn't That's another thing
that didn't really make any sense. I feel like she seduced him and in that in that interaction she was able to she informed him where the robbery was going to be, But like, I don't really that part didn't really make sense to me, Like why would that come up? Like in a trist Like I think my boyfriend's driving a bag because you might want to know about this, right, Yeah,
what Mary? Mary? You learned that Merriman puts her up to it, and like she's he tells her to deliberately give him this information so that those deputies go to that place, so that they are adequately distracted from the real heist. But right, like so it's this he's oh god, He's like pimping out his girlfriend who like be better
at crimes, and I'm just like, oh my god. And then there's that scene where there's like just like a dick measuring contest at the shooting range between Merriman and Gerard Butler, and they're just like, I can shoot my
gun better than it's who who is this? But it seems like that is like cop culture in like just the the embarrassing dick measuring hyper masculine cowboy culture is so I don't it's so, I guess I'm I'm curious about your your thoughts on that two series where it's like it seems like these two things kind of feed into each other in this very insidious way where it's
like all media surrounding cops reinforced this cowboy mentality. And I I mean, there's countless examples of people who decide they want to become cops based off of watching movies like this. And then it sounds like, based on your your reporting, that the culture that it actually exists very much reflects that it It just seems like a kind of a snake eating its own tail in terms of how the how the culture works there. Yeah, I think
you summed it up perfectly. I mean everything that was depicted in this movie, like that kind of stuff is celebrated in law enforcement, you know, like after there's a shooting. Um, a lot of the times they're going out and having drinks and you know, celebrating it. Um. Oh yeah, I think you very much hit it on the head. Like people, A lot of people, unfortunately, I think, join law enforcement
so they can participate in stuff like this. Yeah, and like fulfill this you know, whether it seems like like a dominant fantasy basically um right yeah, and then yeah, I mean again, framing is everything. The way these characters are framed in media is often like, Wow, they're so cool, they're such badasses. You know, they play by their own rules. They're the heroes. They're like, you know, quote unquote saving the day, and it just perpetuates this cycle of propaganda. Yeah,
it's not good. It's it's uh, I'll say it. I don't like it. Um wow, brave, thank you. And I also thought it was like a very deliberate choice to make them to make the den of thieves, the you know who the movie wants you to feel it are the bad guys, to make them all veterans as well. It's like, I think, a very trophy and deliberate choice. They were very um wait it was it was a
specific branch. They were from Marsock Marine Special Forces, right, And so it's like, you're all there's also this other narrative that's kind of going on there that implies that, uh, you know, veterans are inclined to behave a type of way in a way that's just I don't know, it's it's obviously extremely unnuanced, but it doesn't really I mean, this movie interrogates nothing except like why does Gerard Butler looks so bad? But um? And the other the other
big question does fifty cent listen to stadium Marquadium? Um? But in terms of like really intentionally choosing, I feel like it's really tropey to be like, oh, he's an ex marine, so of course he's like really tough and really violent without interrogating like, well, where does that trope
come from? And can the government not be held to account as being extremely complicit and um marine violence and then providing veterans with no resources, um, you know, or job prospects often once they're out of the forces, and just I don't know that kind of pain to me as well, of like, oh, of course this movie is going to be poorly written enough just to be like, um, ex marine, sure sounds good. Um yeah, are there was like we definitely ran out of women. Um I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
There anything um you'd like to add about anything series or I guess I'm specifically interested in your thoughts on how media can handle the representation of law enforcements and that kind of things more responsibly or in a way that is, um, just more critical and shedding light on the again, the like very often racially charged violence that
they're inflicting on individuals and communities. Any any thoughts. Yeah, I mean I think we just need to stop having movies like this, right, I mean yeah, And if you I don't think police violence should be glorified in movies, like I definitely think like there's perhaps a way to you know, have films that discuss the terror that police inflict on community news, but it's done in such a way that it's you know, amplifying the voices of the
people that survived the horror and you know, speaking about the implications of that and the toll that it's taken on their lives. I'm much more interested in seeing that rather than some asshole with a gun, you know, gives the R word and kill a bunch of people and
then go home and collect. Think one of the few movies I've seen about that or like, like from that perspective would be straight out of Compton Um the hate you give, and then maybe handful of others, but they're just yeah, those stories just aren't being told nearly as often as all of these compaganda movies because there's just so many of them, and a lot of them, Like I'm like, damn it, this is a movie that I like, it's about cops, and I just have to there's just
like so much of that that I've had to un learn. I think it does come into like there there there are you know, there is media that exists that is critical of police, but they're also just like not funded
or promoted um to anywhere near the same extent. Like no one has ever heard of Dennett of Thieves, and yet it made eighty million dollars, Like it is such an industry as well that it's like it I don't know, it's it feels so frustrating and so hopeless and I think that there there is potential, especially um when reporting like yours comes out series that it's like, the more that the public is generally aware that this is just total bullshit that um, we've kind of been spoon fed
as like easy content to consume that hopefully that you know, the desires of of of the general public will change and be less open and accommodating and willing to just fork over money to stuff like this. Um yeah, I don't know. It's it's very dark. And then it's also just like so intuitive in the same way that it's just like, yeah, if you want to make a movie that's uh an accurate depiction of of what Like, it's just the idea that the only option is to center
and consult cops. Like, in what world are you going to come out with something that isn't just promoting cops? And it just seems like that is the that's the media habit we're stuck in. And it's and and it's only recently kind of being um questioned. I mean, it's like dogs are Cops. That's like the most popular show for children is cop Dogs. Yea. And I feel like in the in the last several years, there's been I mean,
there's been so many different takes on copaganda. There's so many ways to come at at um discussion, but it just seems like, yeah, like movies like Ten of Thieves don't serve anyone, Like it's just kind of garbage. And yeah, it's like referencing these gangs the Christian whatever the ship his name is I was aware of, but then doing absolutely nothing to like criticize or comment on the behavior.
I mean, aside from you know, again, they're showing the these deputies like you know, roughing up Donnie and they, yes, they do do a big shootout and Um murder a lot of people. But again, it's all about the framing. It's like, well, they were bad guys, they were robbers, and they're justified at the end when Big Nick kills um Leave Shriver's brother. The way that it's framed is like and this is like so hard for him and he doesn't actually want to do it, He just he
has to do it. And it's like no one has to murder anybody, and and and the disingenuous framing of like, oh don't you feel for this guy because he has to murder It's like I don't know. Yeah, it makes my head hurt. But it's like, but it is so normalized in that genre that when you watch it unfold,
these characters who literally admit to being the villain repeatedly. Um, it's so stuck into this genre that it's like believen if they say they're the villain, they're actually not, and we love them and we're gonna market it like that and we're gonna make eighty million bucking dollars. Um. So on that note, it doesn't pass the backbuilt tapest It really doesn't nowhere closed. Sorry, it does past the stadium
arcadium test, which most movies don't. Um. So that's positive. Um. And then as far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on an intersectional examination of the movie, I'll just go ahead and give this zero nipples. So I don't think it really deserves anything. Um, let's give it a zero. Yeah, that's gonna be. That's going to be a zero. Um, what would you like to rate it?
It was horrible? I mean I am, I am genuinely very happy that you brought this to us though, because this is not normally the movie that we would cover, and like we just don't cover this genre very much, but it is definitely like important to talk about because a lot of people watch these movies like religiously, and and it definitely affects I mean, it unquestionably affects the way that they view law enforcement and what they're they're
like willing to permit from law enforcement because, like you pointed it out, the most famous cop characters are constantly being terrible cops like and that's a part of the glorified image. UM. And so much of the the incredible reporting you've you've been releasing UM reflects that to absolutely horrific extent. UM. So yeah, UM, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.
We really we really really appreciate it. Um. And thank you for bringing us uh feminist masterpiece Done of Thieves my new favorite movie. I would have never discovered this without YEA, So thank you so much. UM. And where can we um, where can we find your work? And where can we find um this this series you're you're releasing this pisod's going to come out tomorrow. Yeah. You can follow me on Twitter at series Castle and you can find me on Instagram. UM by you know, typing
that in as well. Um, you can read the series on the Deputy Gangs at Knock dot l A tomorrow or today when this podcast is dropping, we will actually be releasing our UM chapter about the Regulators, so you can read all about Yes, perfect timing, so head over there and you can read all about the Deputy gang that Big Nick was in and all the horrible ship that they do. God damn, thank you so much for for coming. Thank you so much for the incredible reporting
that you're doing. And um, yeah, I guess you can find the vectal cast and all in all the regular places, the Twitter, the Instagram, you can the Patreon, etcetera. Yeah, um yeah, please read the reporting that's Reese has done is continuing to do. And uh the Patreon. Can you can you plug the patroon again for nack l a yeah, or please support ournock Patreon. Um. Like I said, UM, this work is it costs a lot of money to do and I'd like to keep doing it. Um, So
anything that you can spare is much appreciated. Yes, please, UM, and thanks for listening. Come back next week because we have UM, I think maybe our most impactful episode that we've ever released is coming out next week, so definitely yes for that. It's going to be it's very important, all right, Bye bye