Crazy Rich Asians with Teresa Lee and Ceda Xiong

We do? The Bechtel test if You're not familiar, is a test that requires that a movie has two female identifying characters. They have to have names, they have to speak to each other, and they cannot be talking about men. Hey, can we by the test really quick? Let's do it? Okay? Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie, you were really good at soccer this morning. Thank you so much for coming to Mike game. You're welcome. Wholesome doesn't have to be funny, it can

be very awesome. Yeah, just very sincere. Yeah, Jamie, you came to my game, and I really I just need everyone to know what a good and supportive friend. You are. Yeah, it's really more about me than it is about you know, you're it was great, it was fun. Yeah, all women's it's all women's league. So yeah. My soccer games always passed the Bechtel tests every game and then, except when you start screaming about the takedown of the patriarchy in

the middle during the halftime, which is great. Well, sometimes we do yell at the usually male ref so I guess those don't pass. But most of our conversations are about soccer, so we use that test, the Bechtel test, as a jumping off point to initiate larger conversations about the general representation and portrayal of women in cinema. And we are here to talk about a movie a popular request. I'm still in theaters. Yes, we're talking about crazy rich Asians.

And with us, we've got two guests, super Um our first guest new to the pod. She's a TV writer, a comedian, Cita Sean. And we have a returning guest, a friend of the cast. You may remember her from our Transformers episode of the What's Up Network. Yeah, and she hosts her own podcast called You Can Tell Me Anything. Theresa. Both of you guys have been on it's true which one of us is the crazy and which one of us is the rich? I mean, we to draw straw. I just want to be the agent. So Teresa will

start with you. What's your history with this? Oh? I read the book when it came out. It's a good read. It's like a you know, a beatree, you know, a summer romp if you will, uh, And I obviously identify with the main character because she's from the Bay and then went to n y U. Yeah she is is Taiwanese. Well maybe not if there's a sequel anyways, but she thinks she's Taiwanese. And so yeah, I read the book. I remember when it came out. I read it and I even I found a tweet from a long time ago.

I was like, I hope they make a movie out of this, and I hope I'm in Hollywood when that happens. That didn't happen. I didn't make it that far. So you were physically in Hollywood? YEA, Yeah, I should have been more specific about my wish, So yeah, manifest more specifically, right right? And Cita, how about you? I think I read the book when it came out to because the title was you know, like that was like click bait

before clickbait. But I really enjoyed it. You know. It was like I read a lot of Joan Collins when I was a kid because I just had bargain books in my house all the time because my mom would buy me new books. So I read a lot of like eighties Joan Collins. And that's what Crazy Rich Agents reminds me of, like super shoulder padded like extravagance, Jamie. I read the book. I received the first book as a gift, and I read it on a couple different

It was just my plane book for a while. I liked the book that it was like a fun beach read that I happened to be reading on a plane. Sure, and then I saw the movie last week and really liked the movie. Yeah, we saw it together. We did. It was fun. I did not read the book, but I did watch the movie three times in theaters. So let's basically, wow, you beat me. I saw it twice. Oay, you beat both of us, both of the Asians here. I just wanted to make sure I was adequately prepared,

so I saw it many many times. So I'll do the recap. Yeah, sure, okay, So the story focus. Well, first we opened on a scene where Eleanor Young is trying to check into a hotel in London and a bunch of white people are like, you don't belong here, please go away, and she's like, actually, I'm buying this hotel, so fu y'all. So that sort of sets up the Young family fun you can't get off. And then we see Nick Young as a little boy, um in that scene, and I think he's with is it astrid? I think

so that's that makes sense because his cousin. And then we cut to present day. We meet Rachel Chew. She is an econ professor at n y U. She is dating Nick Young, who is very hot and who is very good at wearing pants. Um, he wears a lot of pants. He just knows how to wear a parapets, a tailored parapets. I was like, were these made four your butt? It's wild? Well, I mean he can afford it, so probably imagine being able to afford pants with your

butt in mind. Unbelievable. Jamie. When we were watching this together, you turned to me at a certain point in the movie. I'm pretty sure, or you had tears in your eyes and you said Nick Young is just so handsome. I was fully at Nick just too hot at one point that I just was sent over the edge and I began to cry. It was a worldwide casting for Nick Young's character, and apparently one of my friends told me that he was on one of those travel shows that

shows on the back of airplane. As he wasn't even an actor, He's never done something like this. He was just a host that was very charismatic, and they were like, how about that guy. I'm I honestly, I'm like, I don't know. I'm like he I'm sure he did a great job acting, but I was just like, I just

was really overwhelmed. Um. I also, you know, and I would say that the Mike's hard lemonade I brought to the theater with I probably contributed to sending me over the edge in the first twenty minutes of the movie. But yeah, understandable. So Rachel and Nick are dating and Nick invites her to Singapore because his best friend Colin

is getting married and he's the best man. So he's like, why don't we use this as an excuse for you to come and meet my family, and you can visit your friend while you're there and it'll be a great time. And she's like okay. So they go to they're like at the airport and she's like, I've got my tupperware of food. We're all good. And then the airline people come up to them and they're like, we'll get you checked into first class and she's like, um, excuse me,

what do you mean. And then they're like, here's some champagne, here's an airplane bedroom. And she's like, wait a minute, um, are you rich or something? And he's like addie, kay, I guess and she's like wait a minute. For a while, he's like, I mean we're comfortable, like dog, you're rich. So she learns that he comes from an extremely wealthy family of like real estate moguls and like finance people

and all this stuff. So she goes and meets his mom, Nick's mom, Eleanor, and Eleanor is like, this girl is not rich, so gross, She's not crazy or rich. So basically the story revolves around Rachel trying to earn the respect and the blessing of Eleanor because it seems like she and Nick are on like the track for marriage. And because Rachel is Chinese American, she was raised in the US, and she just has sort of like a

different set of values, is what we called them? Wait, what is that American born Chinese they call us when we went to Taiwan. Oh that's what Aquafina says in the movie, which is like yellow on the outside. I've never heard that either. Okay, So, because she just sort of has like a different set of values than like the Young family, Eleanor is all like she's not the right person, like she's not the one for you Nick, but Nick is like enamored and in love with Rachel.

Over the course of the story, you know, Rachel's like trying to like make Eleanor like her basically, and Eleanor

keeps being like, you will never be enough. And then finally at the wedding that they've gone to Singapore four, Eleanor has hired a private investigator and reveals some information about Rachel's mom's history that would have caused like a huge scandal where her mom had unfair with another man who wasn't her husband, got pregnant with his baby and then left him in China and moved to the US.

So that was like grounds for like basically dismissal for like eleanor to be like go away, never talked to

us again. That part is like I feel like one of the most believable things too, because i mean, I'm sure American culture people hide things all the time, but especially in Chinese culture, I feel like there's just so many secrets, but their secrets where it's like families will just be like so overbearing in one way, but then also so like, oh no, I just didn't tell you that your grandma died because it's the I decided it was best for you. And so there's things like that

all the time. And then so like the fact that all these families have these secrets, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's exactly so weird. Like because her and my mom have a good relationship. Yeah, she's just like life yeah yeah. But then it's revealed that whenever Rachel like kind of confronts her mom about it, her mom's like, oh, well, my husband was abusive and I left him because he was hurting me. But yeah, they have a really good relationship.

So then Nick proposes to Rachel and he's like, I will leave my family behind, like you know he's supposed to be next in line to run the Young corporation. He's like, I'll walk away from all of that. I just want to be with you. And then we cut immediately to a scene where she has invited Eleanor to play majong with her, and she's like, I'm playing losing

hand either way. Like Nick either leaves his family and then like that's not good because he doesn't have a family, or he chooses his family and doesn't stay with me, and then he will end up resenting you his mom. So she basically rejects him his marriage proposal, so that she's basically making the choice for him. And then that is the thing that makes Eleanor be like, oh my god, she is enough. She's strong and she's a fighter, and

she's good enough for me. So then she finally gives her blessing because then Nick reproposes with his mom's ring, um, and we're all like it up. So that was set up so well, I feel like, and I think the ring was great because the ring was the ring that Eleanor husband Nick Young's dad had to create especially for her because the patriarch wouldn't give up her old ring.

So The ring is also like symbolic of like a marriage that wasn't approved by the families and now it passed on to another and the idea that traditions can be malleable because now it's the tradition because it's her his mom. But when I was created, it was because she wasn't allowed to continue the tradition. So like it's a new tradition, tradition yea unapproved wives, the unapproved wives. Um so then she says yes this time, and then they go and have like an engagement party on a

rooftop in Singapore. There's a few subplots where Nick's cousin Astrid is dealing with her marriage to a guy named Michael. He was like also a commoner who marries into this rich family named Michael is always a red flag no matter what. Um So there's that subplot, and then we meet many of other Nick's families, and then um we meet Paklin, which is Aquafina's character and like her family, so we've got a whole cast of characters. But yeah, so that's the main storyline. There's also a lot of

twin representation in this film. I feel like nobody's talking about there are three pairs of twins that I recognized the maybe more if I watched Aquafina her sister's twins, Aquafina's little basis sister. And there's the adult gossipy twins that are at the battelerette that they called the twins. And then there's the Flower girls are also twins, and they couldn't be Aquafinea sisters because it wouldn't make sense.

They weren't sister, right, So there's always three pairs of Asian girl twins, which I feel like it is like a big win for me because I am an Asian girl twins and I was a flower girl in a wedding in Malaysia but the rehearsal was in Singapore. It's like it's basically a story of my life. Like Asian girl twins are hot, come outity during wedding season and they're just like, look at the pair of cutes walking on the aisle. Yeah, we crushed it. Full twin season.

It's well, I mean Gemini season in the spring. Anyways, So are twins especially lucky? No, I think they're unlucky, especially because they're girls. I guess I just want to start by saying that I mean, this movie is a box office hit right now. It's what everyone's talking about second weekend number one. It's like a genuine blockbuster. I feel like it's like a rom com, but also like it's funny and it's tight. It feels like a blockbuster. Yeah, it's a it's a solid flick and we've sold. My

mom saw it with her former colleague. There were airline ladies what are the flight attendants together in Taiwan and they're still friends, and she came to visit her from Taiwan and they went and watched it, and I was like, that's so awesome. A friend is kind of like a crazy rich Asian though she like, she's not this crazy rich, but she's very like just more like an educated rich Asian rich enough to be like I can relate. Yeah,

I think she's into it. Cool, cool, All right, let's take a quick break and then we will come back to discuss crazy rich Asians. And we're back. We're here, we're here. It's Sunday. We're literally a brunch club right now. Yes, it's great. Yeah, I read that A lot of like Asian immigrants people and parents, ones who normally never go to the movies are seeing this movie because they're seeing

themselves represented for like the first time. This is the first American movie that's an all Asian cast since I think Joy Luck Club, like twenty five years ago. I mean it's funny too because it's like even if you don't because a lot of the criticism before the movie came out was that it's not relatable because it's about crazy rich people. But I think it's like, I mean, like when we watch Superhero movie, is it's like is

that relatable? I think that's a dumb thing because it's like, I don't know, we gotta start somewhere, like do you really want to watch a movie about people doing nothing sitting around getting high? I mean maybe actually that's like haroldon Cumar. Also, by the way, haroldon Kumar is also leading Asian cast, and people keep forgetting that that's that's because people build as a stoner movie, not an Asian movie. But I guess that wasn't a major studio movie. Maybe

it did really well. There's also it's there's a lot of white people in this so it's not like an entirely Asian characters cast, like, but the lease are Asian so more leads should have been Asian after that, but everybody seemed to forget that. That did well, but it was mainly a boon. Yeah, white is in the name. That's the only way they could get the movie to make. It's like, put something white in this title to trick the audience. Did you guys know that there was a

very herald and Kumar three D Christmas? Yeah? I think because it was on TV one year without the sweety glasses you saw it. Yeah, there was something about a Christmas tree. That's why I think that's what. Yeah. Yeah, well, either way, we've we've come a long way from like Mickey Rooney's character and Breakfast a Tiffany's from like Dot Dong in sixteen Candles, even from like Scott Pilgrim where like knives Chow so much like tone deaf stuff is

said about that character. So I mean we're still a far cry from what it should be representation wise for nearly everybody. Well, we're interested in, like what what your thoughts on that? Yeah? Well, I actually think because for me it's not representation isn't just half of it is visual Because of course, the more Asians people we see them more will realize like, Okay, like we can be

in movies. But I also really like that the story itself is representative because it's just like someone I saw it with said this, well, it's like it's just it's funny because jokes are new because it's a new point of view, so that like does well for everyone. It's not something we've heard before. But it's not explicitly an Asian movie. Like the story about family and about tradition isn't explicitly Asian. It's very tied to Asian culture, so

that I think obviously we relate to it more. But um, anybody can watch it and not think like, oh, this isn't for me, because everybody it has a mom like that, I think we can all relate to it. So I really like that it's representative in um, the story itself just like the point of view for sure. Yeah, And I was thinking about this because my boyfriends are watching The Godfather Trilogy over again and watching that movie over again, which is probably like the most famous movie in America.

You realized that, like the Godfather Trilogy is an immigrant story. It's it's really American, but it's also about an immigrant story. So I was thinking about that in context of crazy rich Asians, and I was like, oh, this is an immigrant story. It's like, uh, finding your identity, making a new like for yourself, all those things that are kind of what being American is all about. So that to

me was really relatable. I actually bought tickets for my parents to go see it, and my mom was like, this is good, but this is very also just more about my mom than anything else. Her notes were that it was too loud, that she was like, loud, it's funny, like moms don't realize. I don't know if my mom recognizes herself and Ellen or young. She's not that strict, but like, like it's funny because I don't think people recognize themselves in it. Yeah, And I my mom's point

about their wealth was also really funny too. She was just like, oh, it was so over the top, was so extravagant, like nobody lives like that. And I was like, well, that's the point of the title. It's in the title. But I think I think a lot of the criticism leveled at the movie. I mean, I enjoyed it. I sort of see the shortcomings, like, but I think it's because there's not enough of this kind of movie. There's not enough movies where there's like a majority Asian cast.

There's not enough movies kind of with an Asian centers story, you have like a variety of like a body of work to choose from. Like we've been able to name like five movies made over like the last forty years, which is like not a body of work. That's like five movies. So if you had a body of work to actually critique against and then it would be interesting.

Right now, we're just like picking, Like if there were like more stories about Asian people who are middle class, yeah, and then you could be like, okay, well then like crazy roach Asians, Like yeah, that's a lifestyle that most people don't lead. But like there are many other examples of Asian stories, but they're the problem is it's there

aren't many other examples. I even think as a rom com, it's diverse in the storytelling because most rom coms will have a meet cute, But this starts in a point

of the relationship when it's healthy, nothing's going wrong. They do introduce his mom, and it's like there's some lives that have been told, but like, you know, every relationship has its bumps and then they deal with and it still feels cohesive and there's an arc, and usually I feel like rom coms aren't like that, and it doesn't end in their wedding, So it's it feels like a realistic sort of sliver of their life where it's like, this is the thing they had to get through. They

got through it. I feel a resolution. Right. The main the arc of the story has to do with the relationship between Rachel and eleanor not really Rachel and Nick. So it's it's yeah, it's more about like a class struggle, a generation gap kind of thing, a like American Asian person versus an Asian person from Asia. Like it's right, So yeah, it's like those are the themes of the movie, and about like Americans caring about passion like got to me so much. I was just like, oh, why am

I doing comedy? I've let my people down. It's just what am I doing? There's this big It's it's very much East versus West. You know, it's individualism versus collectivism, and Eleanor is on the side of collectivism because she'll do anything she's not see. That's also why I feel like it's a diverse angle because I don't think any side is really portrayed as like the right side, and

this Rachel is not really portrayed holy right. She's a little selfish, but Eleanor's she says she's all about the collective. But look at her house. I mean, like I handed out food to the poor people. I don't like she cared about our country, but like does she? I mean, like they're starving people. She care about her family, and that's pretty much it. Yeah, so it's like everybody is

kind of selfish. The unit is the family, which is a larger unit than the self, which is like until the family, until there's a black sheep in the family, and then you cut that person out and then they're not in your family, so your family can be perfect. I feel like that's a very Asian thing to do. Well. The character of Oliver says that he's like the rainbow sheep of the family because he's like the one like

out queer person. But then it seems like he still has good enough relationships with like all of his like aunties and stuff. Well, I'm curious your guys thoughts too, because I do feel like, obviously so much as tied to Chinese culture, but it's all those like themes of just like your you know, the filial piety is really

tied to Chinese culture. But also I feel like people I can follow along where there are things that to you felt so new that was like, oh that's something that like I don't understand, or like that doesn't click or did it all like feel like yeah, this all makes sense I can track. To me, it all tracked.

There were certainly things that like I hadn't experienced firsthand in my family setting or anything like that, because like I'm like German in Italian but like so far removed from those cultures that I really feel like I was brought up to be like culture less somehow, Like I didn't have like an Italian grandma like cooking us big Italian dinners or anything like they're just like really just like the most boring flat American experience where Hamburger helper

like so like not Camber. So nothing was so unfamiliar to me that I was like what I don't this doesn't make sense or this doesn't track. But um, it

was certainly experiences that I have not had. But that's why it's so important to have movies like this where you know, people like me, and I would say a large portion of white America can like see these stories and see these cultures represented and say like, wow, this is different from my own and and it's you know, delivered to us respectfully and in a way where you

know we can learn about a different culture. Yeah. I feel like it did a good job of being critical with that, Like it was authentic so that I because I'm critical in my own culture, as we all should be of everything. Right, No, nothing is perfect, That's how we get better. So I feel like it did a good job of being critical without feeling like it was like exotifying anything. It didn't feel like it was like white gay zey, like oh look how weird they are.

It felt like it was like criticizing from with him, but also understanding where they're coming from. Like the table scene when they're making the dumplings. That was I really like that scene because you see the generations and the kids joking even like asked her who understands because she grew up there makes a joke about like, oh, like they don't guild their kids, and it's like you see how there are flaws. I don't think we should just

be like Asian people on TV. They're perfect because they're not. Like, We've got a lot of issues. We believe in ghosts, like all this, it's like what's going on over there, but we can't have any TV. Depression is not real, but that'sal illnesses an issue. Sexism is such a problem Asia, Like that's why there's so many girls that are left in orphanages because you know, the sons are favored. So that's it's that kind of talked about in the movie.

But there's a reason why Henry Golding's character is so important because he's the son. Like they didn't have a daughter that was taking over the Young Corporation with son, which like is like a big I think you're The movie makes it so that we're able to be critical of it without feeling like we're like antagonizing or like vilifying the whole culture, because it's very well rounded in

its criticism. Yeah, I feel I feel like if the most of the stuff that I just was like, oh, that's not something I'm familiar with or or fully understand, were specifics inside of a larger narrative that you know is a rom calm, which seems really smart, and like, what's love? I didn't get that and also said I'm a virgin of me don't understand, but no, it was

like I don't know. I mean, in terms of presenting a movie with a culture that the majority of the audience won't be familiar with, I feel like it was like, it's so smart to put it in a construct that

everyone's gonna understand. Everyone, whether they like it or not, have seen rom com and that understands the general conventions for better or whereas of a rom com and and seeing things I didn't fully understand plugged into a larger structure that I definitely understand was cool and like made it easier for me on first feeling at least two, to be like, Okay, here are the things that I didn't completely understand her that was just new to me, and now I can just go and try to learn

about those things and figure out what their context were in this kind of not entirely familiar story but like a romantic comedy that wasn't like wait, what's happening? You know? Well, like the un familiar stuff I'm curious, Well, like the mang scene where I was like, they're playing a game

that I have no idea how to play. And I read an article after I saw the movie that explains, like there's a very important like significance to like Rachel's hand where she gives up a specific tile and it's symbolic of like her basically giving up her relationship with Nick, so that there's like all that symbolism there. I wasn't allowed to play Majong because my mom's dad like gambled away their house when they're a little and he was a big gambler. So I was not a low to play,

and so I've never understood how to play. I just associated with like the amahs in the like smoky room, and I'm not allowed to go in, Like I understood what it culturally meant, but I didn't know the tiles.

But I thought they did such a great job setting up the first scene about game theory because when they mapped it back and it's like the Chinese version, you instantly know what's gonna happen because they've set it up already with poker with you, you do understand exactly exactly, like here's something American audiences will definitely know, and then here is like something that you probably haven't seen or understand, but there's some context for it, and it makes it,

I don't know, like it. It does make it accessible for someone who's not familiar with Chinese culture at all, because even if you don't know the game, what's happening in the scene is still like Rachel is basically sacrificing her own happiness because she loves Nick so much to be like, I'm giving him up for you, Eleanor like, and then luckily that's the catalyst that makes Eleanor see, yeah, she's cool. Play in the game dynamic is right, which

was just really good writing on like two different levels. Yeah. But I think the fact that this movie it's representation that we don't normally see. It's respectful American, Like I just truly did not know that much about Singapore as a city at Also a lot of those like images and you know, even establishing shots, I'm like, oh, whoa, this is like just not a city I see very frequently in my day to day media consumption. Gonna say bullshit, because everything idea is it a city and a country,

I believe, so it's like governs itself. It's like a sovereign so it's like a city state. It's kind of like Hong Kong where it's like its own So yeah, got it, sovereign city state. Thank you, superproducer and Sophie. So basically, the fact that we see this representation it's handled responsibly that I think is largely due to the fact that it's direct by an Asian man, it's co written by a white guy and an Asian woman. It's based on a book by an Asian guy. So it's

it's stories by this community and about this community. So when that happens, as we see in many of the movies that we've covered, where you know, if it's Michael Bay trying to like depict anything, he does it terribly crazy. Ex. Once was there a geisha and she was a robot.

But you know, if it's like Ryan Kugler directing Black Panther, if it's John Chew directing crazy rich Asians, like it's that's is why we have just the stories and the characters and everything depicted in much more positive ways than we're used to seeing those types of characters on screen. And it's also just like a really well written movie. So yeah, I think the thing with having like Asians do this particular movie. I'm not saying like all Asian movies have to be made by Asians, but there are

particular things that they pay attention to. I think that helped the process along and makes it feel more authentic, because I think it's like the Hollywood development machine. You just you get scripts that are very broad, and so there's just things in the movie where you're like, oh, I get it, this is like what being Asians like. And I think John M. Chew and especially Adele Lim who is a Malaysian, a born screenwriter, like she's very

adjacent to Singapore, which is also very different from China. China. It's like it's it's the island parts of Asia, which have their own culture and their own way of doing things too. So I think that specificity really helped them pull it together. Yeah, for sure. One of the things that I wanted to point out, and I'm interested in sort of everyone's takes on this, but um, the like older men who could be in the story basically like the patriarchs, are largely absent from it because we do

not ever meet Nick's dad. We get to know next mom a lot. He's like off on business. We meet Mama. But Nick's grandfather has passed away, so we never know him, but we get to know Ama. We spend a lot of time with like Nick's aunties, but we never meet any of the uncles. I don't think I feel like this is kind of accurate because I think it's very much like the home life is matriarchal. I mean, I

didn't grow up in Singapore. I don't know how accurate that is, but I feel like in Taiwan culture, it's like it is very much around the like Ama, like in the house. Um. But you know, it's like doesn't mean it's necessarily elevating woman. It's just like the home is their place. So it's like kind of a double edged sword because they do run ship, but also it's

like they run ship at home. Um. But I don't know because even like my great aunt, she's like the first female architect in Taiwan, and so she worked, so it's not like she's home because she didn't work, but like at home, it's like everything is about her. So I think there's like this more emphasis on the woman at home for sure in Chinese culture. Frankly, I found it refreshing that to have a patriarchal, we didn't need

to man. Yeah. And then Eleanor also met her husband at Cambridge, like they were college friends, so she gave up like a promising law career to support her husband. So I think that also means, I guess in the subtext is that she was so smart and brilliant that she was able to help her husband grow her business, which was the acceptable gendered role at the time. Um, but that without you know, her backing him, maybe like the Young Empire would not have been as successful as

it was. That kind of seems like the implication. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, it's interesting because um, I did notice that too, and I think it felt for me that felt more authentic, um not having the grandpa around or the the dad's around. But also because it's a story

about the mom and the daughter. And I think even though that's universal specifically with an ancient culture, like the in law relationship is also very unique because there is always like a lot of conflict with that, especially because oftentimes they end up living with you and so then it's like two women of the house and the sun, and that's like a common living situation, and so even in circumstances where it's not like a huge difference in

like socio economic class and stuff like that. Is there still like kind of like a lot of tension in a lot of those scenarios. Yeah, I think so my mom doesn't get along with my dad mom, and I see it a lot in other places to feel like that. The inlaw thing that is like a univer I don't think they always have to live with you, but there's kind of an expectation if you're the oldest son, like your mom will live with you as you get older,

got it. And so there's like you're taking on caring for someone that's not your mom and maybe resenting a little bit because you can't, like you can't take on your mom right because it's not right to do that because you're actually in Chinese, like we did differentiate, like your grandma and your mom's side's called white pool and why means outsider, So within the word you're if you're a woman, you're considered an outside of your own family.

So if you marry a man, you're always going to be referred to as outsider within your family, even by your kids. Not your kids, but like your kids kids call you like outside grandma, so there is like this in bed it Um idea that like the woman's side of the family, you're an outsider, and so that's why there's so I think there's so much tension because like, let's say you have to take care of your husband's mom and then meanwhile, you're you treated like an outsider.

You're never going to be part of the family, and you can't even treat your mom because you've married out of your family. So now you're not You've left your family to take care of another family. And Eleanor does that, especially by handing Nick over for the amma to raise, because she knows that she's the outside person, so she

essentially she gives her son up to the family. And so that's also an interesting thing too because that means like the powers kind of like passed between the women and the generations, like the Ama is the one who's going to determine the favorite of the next in line and when when the grandfather's gone. So that's also like a cool thing that they did in the movie. I liked it. Yeah, yeah, that's all very fascinating. Yeah, a question I had and when we were briefly having technical difficulties,

we were discussing it a little more. Is the various accents? Oh, yes, can we talk? Because I genuinely just have no context for any I was like, okay, some people have British accents. And then and then, and I think a lot of people who learn British English or the Queen's English because Singapore was like a colony. It doesn't want me. But

the accents, I thought, you talking about Chinese accents. So many of the Chinese accents are so bad, Like Nick Young's Chinese Mandarin is horrendous, and Rachel's is pretty bad. That's okay, that's normal for an ABC. But um, I think the Grandma had the best. I think she's Taiwanese. She sound in Taiwanese the way she spoke Mandarin, which they're not Taiwanese. But a lot of I don't know, that's not what I'm used to. But Mamas from joy Lot Club, Oh that makes sense. But so much of

the Mandarin was just bad. And I was like, and then the Asian accents, like the Singaporean accents like very specific to and not a lot of the actors had like the Singaporean accent because it was like a really international cast you know. Ronnie's Australian, a Pinus from Queens, you know, and Nico Santos is from like here, I think, right, yeah, he's a Berry. And then Jimmy Oh Yang's also you know, it's crazy and in like literally every single movie right

now too. He's also in the Melissa McCarthy puppet movie. Yes, that's so funny. I love the pigs and valleys for Jimmia Yang past couple of weeks. If you watch Chinese soaps, whenever they have like a white character, she's just like very caricature, like blonde girl whatever, and she's usually some sort of like either like hot model or like evil girl. It's like she's either like really great or really bad. But usually their accents are bad too, so it goes

both ways. I think they're just like, well, people here don't speak English. It's usually like a ustern European person because closer maybe I don't know whoever is available in Taiwan Hollywood, but it'll be like I don't know what you're doing, like that's not an American. But they'll be like she just flew in from New York. No she did not. I'm mean, I'm more forgiving. I guess because

they do it there too, and whatever. Yeah, accents in all Hollywood movies, I mean, even like American dialect, accents in Hollywood movies can be very like you're supposed to be from where. Every time there's a Boston accent in a movie, I need just get furious in my head spins. You know, what's a good Charlie from Stranger Things as British, but I feel like his I didn't know this when I watched. I did know he was arrested for cocaine possession. He's a trouble young boy. Oh no, okay, we've got

to take a break. We're gonna go rescue Charlie from STUPENTI from this coke pile. We'll be right back, and we're back Rachel. I mean, I love Rachel. She's constant woo is amazing. But um, Rachel's character, I thought, especially for the rom com genre, Um, we've sort of touched on it already, but like kind of is as stand out for like you're saying to Resent, like we don't

have that meet cute scene. It's like clearly betrayed that she has a career that makes sense, which never happens in right, it's always like she is our curator, like I worked for a magazine, fashion magazine. Right, She's like I own a bakery, but my house is huge. So that like that trap is kind of like where she has this successful career. She's like the youngest faculty member at NYU. She's like, she's like very impressive. They go to great links to make you know that she is

like smart, capable, etcetera. And and we have a very well fleshed out background for her as well, where we meet her mother. We learned about like the interpersonal dynamics of her family. We see do we see friends that are just her friends or she mostly meeting I think? Right, right, I mean and and so it's I think especially for this genre, she's like a well written character that we know more about them we would know about the average

rom com lead. Yeah, she has a lot of agency, and I like that her next relationships very honest, Like after the fish gutting, she just tells him and she's like, yeah, it was gross. But I feel like even like in real life, a lot of people be like, well, I don't want to mention it done getting the satisfaction, but

it's like, no, should tell you should tell him? And he is surprisingly unlike many you know, male love interests in rom coms, like he's not actively lying to her or actively manipulating her or the beginning, well he withholds information with yeah, But I mean he's also very committed, which is also something that's really nice to see in a male love interest because I feel like a lot of rom coms are like back and forth, back and forth.

Who likes people more? And he's always like very steadfastly committed to Rachel and that's hot and does something that men never do in movies in any genre, which is apologized when they do something wrong, where it's like he is laying at the beginning of the movie, but once she is like, hey, you're lying, he's like, yes, I'm sorry, and you're just like like it sucks that. It's such

a relief to see that. But there's so many I mean, we just did an episode on Ten Things I Hate About You where like the lie last the whole movie and then at the end she asked for an apology and he led her cuts her off by like making out with her, So you know, men don't apologize in the movies, so it's rarely nice to see his character.

We also don't know what he does. In the book, he's a professor, but also in the book, speaking of line, so Amanda, his ex is mentioned in the movie, but in the book, um, she is an ex and he had a threason with her and one of the other girls was on the bast trip. So they bring it up in the book and uh, and it's like, that's why Michel so pissed because you didn't he didn't tell me that your ex was coming, but you didn't tell me this childhood friend of yours that you mentioned was

a girl. You got a threesome with your ex, and they all want to marry you, so they hate me. She deserved a heads up about all of Yeah. Yeah, so we don't In the book he's a professor. In the movie, we don't even We know like what Rachel does and that she's very good at her job, and

then like Nick is just the guy that she's writ Um. Yeah, I liked Nick's character a lot, but there he does at certain points fall into the trappings of like man who withholds conversation and then it's like, whoops, might be you're already Matt, you know. But he does apologize, which I don't even want to give him too much credit for it, but that never happens in and she makes him wait for it, like she is obviously heartbook, but

she didn't take it him back right away. So I like that he apologized and has to deal with the consequence. It's like has to work for it, as should everyone. Right, we're going next. We've talked a lot about Eleanor, but is there are there any thoughts on Eleanor that we haven't For some good, she's like in everything, I feel like she's such a like acclaimed actress. Yeah, I thought that character was really well written, just like even the idea of her having been treated that way and still

doing it, it's very accurate. Like I tweeted something my mom used on Twitter, just a joke about how like my mom was really hard on me growing up or whatever, and she saw it and then responded like because I told her, I was like, it's a joke. I don't think you're hard on me. Whatever she might listen to anyways, but you know, I was like, obviously, it's like a joke about having high expectations, even though I know it's

for the best. And then she made a joke back and she was like, oh, well, like I'm not like that, but you did, you know my mom was like that, and I was like, but you are like that, but she said my grandma once my mom brought home like a test and she said she did the best out of seven kids. And then my grandma's answer was like, why didn't you get Yeah, but I guess it's like the cycle, like an Eleanor character kind of embodies that, Like she was treated that way, but it didn't make

her more sympathetic. It made her actually harder because she in her mind she's like, oh, you have it easy. I had it harder. But she's doing the same thing. Right.

If you kind of compared this movie to something like Meet the Parents, which has a similar premise in terms of just like you know, meeting your future in laws kind of thing in a standard like you know, Hollywood Garden Variety romcom like that, Robert Nero's character is like pulling out all the stops to like make sure he's like sabotaging men Stiller, and it's just like really goofy and like silly in a lot of ways. Whereas, like with Eleanor's character, like she's very grounded and it doesn't

resort to these like really stupid silly moment. I mean, I mean there maybe there's going to be a movie like that, but in this case, it's just like, yeah, like you can see where she's coming from, Like you can tell based on her background and her upbringing and her like just that cultural context. Like even if we don't agree with her, we're still like, yes, this makes sense, like this, this tracks for her character, and yeah, she's

developed really well. I think thinking of another in laws movie I was like, which apparently is a subgenre of movies, we receive Monster in Law and right where that is such a like classically like woman on woman Haiti, and the reasons given are very vague, and it's just like you just know by the poster that it's going to be Jane Fonda yelling at j Low for two hours. And if you choose to see that, then you choose

to see that. But and and so anytime there's like a future daughter in law, mother in law or even just like any woman and woman conflict in a big movie, you're like, oh, boy, like this could fall into so many like tropes, but like you were saying, Caitlin, like we've been talking about in general, it's just like everything is so grounded and we're given all the information we need to understand, and both characters grow and have a

better understanding of each other by the end. And it was like, oh, that is like a very well managed conflict between women in movies were usually if we're given almost nothing, well the two characters are written as the conflict is sort of central to how they understand themselves, and I think that's what makes the conflict feel so grounded. It's not like like you were saying vague reasons like I don't like your hair color like that that a reason to fight, or like the color of the wedding

or whatever. It's really how they see themselves in the world.

And when that point of view clashes, that's when you get these really strong, you know, moments, but you also just understand what both of them are coming from speaking of like I mean bringing it back to the beachdal test like because even though they're fighting kind of of a man, they're not quite because it's like they talk even in that dumplings thing they're talking about like career and tradition and like values, so indirectly, like Nick is wrapped up in that as an example of values, but

like replace it with anything else, Like Rachel wants something that Eleanor has and their values are clashing, so it's like it's not really about the man. It's about like what does Rachel value, is it? Like their passion and happyness and love, and Eleanor is like, no, no, you value hard work and building relationships and sacrifice. Sacrifice, That's what love is. It's sacrifice. It's giving up what you want. So therefore you should give up what you want so

I can have what I want. Like that's kind of like what she's saying, yeah, and so I don't think it really is about the man, even though indirectly, Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean, right, And like Jaman you were saying, like oftentimes, if there is an antagonistic female relationship, it's usually because like one woman will just hate another woman simply because she's a woman and she sees her

as competition. Or you know, it's if we see like a high school movie where there's like just like pettiness between two women, it's never really established why that is. Or like there's no background or context given as to like why two female characters might not like each other. It's usually just like relying on, you know, the stereotype of you know, Hollywood being like, hey, you know how girls can't get along, Well, here's a movie about it.

So to me, even though this is largely a story about kind of what starts out as an antagonistic relationship between two women, it's not what we usually see in movies. It's like we said, it's there's the context that explains why they are butting heads. It's more of a difference of like values than it really is like them, you know, fighting over a man, which is weird to say because one of them is his mom. But but yeah, it's like I think it's handled much better than it normally is.

It's like a double wind too, because it's like you not only have a very well written female conflict, because there is like sometimes in the wide ways there are to criticize movies now and the different mediums to do sometimes I feel like it gets lost and I've I've definitely read is it Gillian or Jillian Flynn? Is it

Gillian Flynn? I thought it was Jilly Gillian. I don't know for the purposes of this little sound bite, it's Jillian, but she wrote this great thing about like having female characters in conflict and how because it's never historically been written very well. Um, there was sort of like this prevalent criticism that was like, there just shouldn't we just

shouldn't show women in conflict at all. And it's like, no, you can and should have women like that happens in the world all the time, but just don't not give us any context for why it's happening. And so seeing it effectively written and it's but it's grounded and who they are as people like it just I don't know, it's great and it's some of the best things in the movie. What do you guys think of Araminta the

girl getting married? Um? Oh so for her? For me, I think it's she I don't know if she's complicit in like the really horrible treatment that like Rachel receives Allah like aromantous friends, who is kind of a fish in her bed right because she knows about she feels

like she's a good example of trying to write. She yeah, like they write varieties of types of rich people and I feel like she's almost like when she's not the worst kind, but she's kind where it's like they get off scott free because they're not actually being horrible, so in comparison, they're good, but they also are obviously turning blinders to other people who aren't privileged, Like they're the kind of people who are like, oh, poor people make

me sad like that exactly, like every once in a while, like her extravagant party and then she's like, I'm gonna be cute to invite Rachel, but also like maybe funny, but I'll stay out of it. Right, she creates the environment for the conflict to happen, and she's like, conflict, this happened drama at the party. I think she's kind of I don't know if she's actually based on Angela Baby, but do you guys know who Angela Baby is. She's

like one of the most famous people in China. She's just like she looks kind of like what a computer program version of a perfect Chinese person would look because she's got so much classic surgery. But she's just like on everything. And her wedding was like three times Kim Karre's wedding or something I think she's in some big Hollywood movies, but she has like very yeah, not a lot of words, very CG. Yeah, but they'll put her

and stuff to sell tickets. Got and she's like that she like four wedding dresses and like a carouse al wedding cake and stuff like that. So yeah, and Aaron and just character was one of the few characters in this movie that to me, like I saw it and registered just like, oh, that's a round com stock character that's being used in this movie. Another one that I felt like was very I think Killen. We talked about

this after the movie. Aquafina's brother and who's like it's funny because he's a pervert and he's trying to take pictures of her naked, Like that is such a com trope. That was like, alright, I guess that's like Aquafina. Ever she's they're noticing it happening, and she's never like hey, brother, like stop that that's gross and creepy, Like no one challenges it, and it's just that was like the one part of the movie I was like, oh, to take a pictures of a naked not naked, but like always

he's stopped. Yeah, like just the stockerd narrative in that character. I thought it was because he was going to post on social media, but I guess that makes more sense that he just wanted it first collection I thought he

was that's that's what it seems like at first. Either way, he's taking photos of her without her permission, over and over and over, and then there's a scene where she's like lying in bed with her mom and they're having this big heartfelt moment, and then like the button of that scene is like him taking the pictures and they're just like, oh you how long have you been there? A short while? And they're like t and it's like

he's invading scene. And especially that coming to the button at the end of a really well done scene about abuse, like and here's this creepy boy I'd taken. I was like, get out of here? Why are It was totally really weird. It was yeah, I was like who lets you know? They're like, hey, jed Apata right the ending to this, let's just see what how right Ken John's character and that the end of that scene. The other super Stock character I really liked was the film producer and his

his trashy girlfriend's fun comedic. He's like producing a movie where like his girlfriend is tied up and like a guy is like nearby like fighting. It's like, what is this the end of Spider Man two mentioned, So, yeah, are meant to just read to me as like, yeah, like this is like kind of a less written out roumcom character. Yeah, she's a little plotty because everyone's going to her wedding too, so she's kind of disturbing story. Um,

let's talk about Astrid. She is the i would say, other main female character with like kind of her own story arc, and it's there partly to sort of like mirror what's happening with Rachel and Nick, because she is this like rich like charity organizer, socialite like fashion icons five at the beginning, but she's like Nicks like one relative that he's really bonded with and like they're actually like friends and stuff like that, and then she and

Rachel will kind of forge a friendship over the course of the movie. But then so her main storyline is she discovers that her husband, who was like a military officer I think that's the captain in the army Michael, but like does not come from a wealthy family so that was like caused for some controversy. And you know the family where like he married into money, she married like a poor guy. Yeah, so for her, I have a lot of thoughts about her. I don't feel like

she's as innocent as she tries to act like. I think she's the kind of person who wants to be so perfect. She has done all the right things, went

to the right school, whatever, it looks beautiful. But I don't think she's like like, I think she wants to be with a man of lower status, even though she would never say that to him, but because she enjoys being high status and she enjoys being not wrong, so she I think in her mind is like maybe I think in her mind she's like, he would never stray because look what he gets, Like in no world would he ever get this, and I'm giving it to him,

and so it hurts more when he strays. But then when he does stray, she can't be wrong because nobody will be like, oh what does she do wrong? Because it's like, no, she's like hot, rich, famous and perfect and smart, So he must not be a man, he must be insecure. It must be his fault. And I think she builds that situation purposefully or maybe subconsciously. But I think she's the kind of person who wants to be always right and always perfect, and that's why she's

not actually that innocent. And there's yeah, there's like hints of that in the movie in fact, like her husband's even like you always have to be like the prettiest, most port Like you're not like reacting to learning that I'm having an affair because like you can't be bother is he having a fair hot take hot Michael take. I'm not one to be a Michael apologist, but I mean, I definitely see what you're saying. That was something that I remember being like presented more effectively in the book.

Maybe there just wasn't enough time for it in the movie. It's already a two hour movie. They didn't get too much into it. But I think the credit sequence they have a quick sneak peek about her running into Charlie, which is her ex um But I think in the book she's not having an affair, but she keeps talking to Charlie about how she thinks Michael's having an affair, and it's like you're hiding the fact that you're talking to your ex from your husband, and this is your

ex that you almost married. So who is actively in love with you? And who you know that? Which is not like covered in the movie at all. Yeah. Actually, I mean she didn't really have as much to do, no, but I think she wants to be not wrong, So I think she talks, you know, if she's talking to her X was in love with her, complaining about her marriage, she gets to then be the hero of that story to him. She gets to be rescued too. I appreciate

her presence in this story. And I don't know if this was done purposefully or not by like the writer and the filmmakers, but her being in the story and making like forming a friendship with Rachel sort of balances out the antagonistic relationship that she's having with Eleanor. So if you the only female relationship you saw in the movie was Rachel and Eleanor, we might be like, oh,

that's like there's other options. Um, So, I mean we get that relationship, we get her relationship with Aquafina's character, we get a relationship with her mom, right, the whole spectrum of woman interaction. But I think because she's like so rich and like, you know, this like high status woman. She could easily you know, ignore or pay no mind

to Rachel. But the fact that she's like, I'm going to make an effort to actually like be her friend, uh, I think is like maybe a conscious effort to be like, hey, look, rich people can be nice too. But he cares a lot about her image, Like she invited Alma to the wedding after Michael left her so that nobody would wonder why Michael wasn't there, and that's why she walked in

with Alma. That's why Alma says, that's why she says thank you to her Alma when they're walking down and people are like, oh, she never comes, And so that's like a hint to like how much she cares so

much about image, she's like neglected her actual relationships. Yeah, I felt the Michael Asterid storyline felt I mean, I think it was just because it was like more addressed in the book, but like it it felt it felt weird in the movie a little bit where it's like I in the movie I like felt for Michael a little bit where it was kind of like cutting dry in a movie that it does very well with a nuance storyline there felt a little bit less like you cheated on me, yes, queen bye, like that was kind

of but I really enjoyed her relationship with Rachel. Uh that was like presented awesome and seen with them on the beach and like where they're bonding and said and You're like, oh, this is great and asked actually didn't want to go on the bachelorette party each other because she says to Michael, how would you feel if I came and worked at the office, and I was That was the scene where I was like, oh, this is

like actually a real marriage. This isn't just like some pretty thing, because like she's offering to give up some like fabulous vacation time to spend time with her husband, and so when she's on the vacation, it very much feels like she's like giving up her husband. And the trip itself was wasn't something that she really wanted to do.

It was like a constellation prize. So like then when when Michael says that like she never loved and I was like, well, dude, you haven't been paying attention, Like well, so I really do, Like, as I know, I'm going to be super hard on her but because I like her and she's the one that I feel like I'm the most aspirational too, like I would love to be in her shoes. But I also feel like I recognized

her flaws of wanting to be this perfect image. But I also don't think that relation to her relation with Rachel is all that innocent. I think again, her wanted to be high status draws her to Rachel because she can be the nice high status because Rachel is a commoner, and so being around Rachel, she's kind of like immune, Whereas if she gets involved with the girls, she's not immune because they're of her level and so they can play Caddy with her too, and she could get hurt.

And so I think that it was all very calculated. And I think even her offering to help out at the office is calculated because it would be taken as an active sacrifice, and she wants everything she does to be recognized as an active sacrifice. So I think, I don't know, like I really like her, but I also I'm really hard on her because I feel like she's like this embodiment of like the sort of Chinese need to succeed and be perfect, but also being so privileged.

You don't see how you are privileged. I don't know, right, she isn't perfect. Well, the fact that you're able to say so much about her means that she's written in such a way that you can actually clean this kind of stuff, because so many female characters and movies are just like, we don't know anything about that person or her personality or her background or anything like that. So the fact that she is presented with different you know, choices and situations and that you are, you know, kind

of reading. Also, she neglects her son, like they say, your son wants to see you, and she's like okay, and she's like reading some French and she doesn't understand, like she's already trying to make him into this perfect little international kids, Like I think you just don't have to spend time with you, Like she was shopping all day, like spending a million dollars on ear rings. Come on, also, I want herrings were really nice? Yeah? Should talking about Picklin? Yeah,

Aquafina love her. Yeah, I mean she's like the kind of stock like comic relief best friend character as you see in many potoms. They're like, oh, we're going to hire a stand up to do this, like her main contributions to the story I think are making sure that Rachel looks the part basically. So there is the scene early on where she gives her address to wear to the party at Alma's house, and then later there's the makeover scene. About the makeover scene, I can't wait for

the Crazy Rotations episode. Comma this is I mean, for me, this is just a trapping of the genre that could have been avoided but wasn't. I don't know. I didn't hate it. I don't have a good montage. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, it's like the thing about this particular makeover scene that wasn't I don't know like it. It didn't bother me where our mentions got flooded about like red

flag makeover scene. But the way this one is done, I feel like, if it's like, Okay, we have to have a makeover scene, there has to be a montage

scene whatever. Some good looks are seen, but it's not like the Princess Diaries makeover scene, where it's like you're becoming another person and we're stripping you of your identity, which is what so many makeover your scenes are coated as of like you know, take off the glasses, lift up your tips, like the whole not enough, You're not good enough, stops using three syllable words, like the whole thing like it's a personality make over to where this

was sort of just I don't know my reading. It was like, all right, she just needs a nice dress for the wedding. That's true, though the whole thing is like you're not gonna be enough, and she's like, just watch me become a different person, right right? What if she just shut up in sweatpants? Was like, I am enough. I'm so enough that I'm going to scale back. How

enough I am? I? Well, so we'll talk about the makeover scene in a second, but I do kind of wish One of my issues with this movie is that I wish Rachel who has a PhD and e con comics, who's an expert in game theory, which admittedly I don't know what that is. I should have googled it, but I literally always gave very in dating all the time. Well you gotta use it. It's all about a pickup artisses the game. No, I don't mean it that way, but I'm your emotional losses. It's not about like like

trying to pick up people. But it's like the game theory is just like in all the options and deciding like all the outcomes and the word and then going off the worst instead of the best. Right, So then the world if I hide how I feel the worst case scenarios, I'm always going to be lying to myself. So then no matter what, even if you tell the truth then it hurts, it's still better than the one where you're lying to yourself. That's how I use game theory. God, interesting,

I should try that if I ever date again. Um So, Rachel is an ECON professor, so she knows about economics. She surely knows that capitalism is maybe not the best thing. So I what I wish for this movie is that she just did a little bit more to challenge just the extravagance and the real the wealth and the opulence and all of that, because I mean, anyone who gets

that rich has exploited people. They have probably not done some great things maybe, And that doesn't seem like they're aside from Asterid, they don't seem to be that charitable. They seem to just be kind of hoarding their wealth and time, like Aquafina. I think at one point says like that house is two hundred million dollars, like that's crazy. So I just wish that maybe in a in a perfect world, Rachel would have been like, hey, you guys, and all of your wealth, uh growth, like, maybe share

some of this? I d k anyway, Um, basically I wanted Rachel to be a socialist icon. So back to the makeover scene. So we talked in the I think

it was the Aladdin episode. I think we made them as sake of saying that it's kind of rare to see a movie about a lower status or lower class woman getting together with a higher status guy, but that that we weren't right about that that was busted because there are plenty of movies like that, this one being one of them, Cinderella, Pride and Prejudice and these all

that Manahan, Pretty Woman, My Fair Lady, Slash Dance. You know, there's kind of different examples coming to America, but in many of these examples, the woman does have to get a makeover or kind of lie about her status to

be more appealing to the man. So in Crazy Rich Asians, the makeover, as we said, isn't it's literally just to be like, hey, there's not even a makeover, it's it's a dress trying on montage so that I can wear a nice dress to the wedding that I've been I've been planning to go to, and it's not built around a lie. Exactly happens. Yeah, it's not like I need to make myself more physically appealing to the man so

that he will realize that he loves me. But in movies where it's a like lower status man who ends up with an upper status woman, and we see that in things like Aladdin, Titanic, obviously, Wish wish, Um, the Notebook, lad in the Tramp, dirty Dancing, Look, I'm not really um. We see like in Star Wars with like Han and Leah, even like there's all these different examples. Usually in in those cases, the man doesn't really have to do much

of anything to change rarely even changes his clothes. In Aladdin, yes he becomes a prince, but that I think is kind of an exception to the rule. The beast puts on that nice but he's already he's the rich one. He's the prince, and she and Bell is a commoner. Yeah, he's the dog the Dog Prince coming to CDs. Honestly, wait, really quick, scientist. Has anyone ever seen the Like Network series from the late eighties about Beauty and the Beast? Oh,

the one produced by g RR Martin? Yes? Where, Oh my gosh, it's Ditty the Beast in late eighties New York City. Beauty is a high powered lawyer's best and she's Linda Hamilton's Yes, what the beast herminator boyfriend. The beast is what's his name? The guy from Sons of Anarchy? I can't remember Ron Pearlman Cowboys, so it's like hell boy Terminator, come boy it is. I won't say it's a good show. I'll say it is a wild ride,

and I highly recommend him. He lives in a layer underneath the city, so Linda Hamilton's forced to come see him whenever she has trouble with a case. He's like growling amongst his books. Let me help a man. He's the best. He's an actual beast. It feels like such a weird like, oh my god, like a furry entry. It feels like such like a focus group workshop show. It was like, Okay, people like beauty and people like

lawyer's people like New York City. I just have to remind everyone that without that furry beauty and the Beast, we would not have Game of Thrones because that's where gry got started. Just a click hot Red so much in the best TV series. It's real like he looks like a Grench he does. The Beast looks very uncandy belly in this show. Anyways, what a time to be alive. To close the book on the dress montage scene, Um,

I didn't hate it. It's I think they're because you can't have a romantic movie without people trying on different clothes. But I think because it's unlike many movies where we see a lower status woman having to basically change everything about herself in order to be usually physically appealing to the man, because so much of women's worth is attached

to their looks. Unfortunately, so for a woman in many of these movies to be even a viable romantic option, she has to take off her disgusting glasses and get rid of her horrible pony tail and put on rich people clothes. So that doesn't really happen in this movie. It's really just her trying on some dresses. Could the movie have done without it. Short, it's not a cornerstone plot point of the film, so it easily could have been gotten rid of and the movie would essentially be

no different a loot that we're talking about it. I almost feel like maybe it is included because this is a romantic comedy and that is such a familiar scene in that genre, and so maybe it's just like the movie's way of being like, Okay, here's this scene, but it's not. There's not the same implied toxicity that this

scene would normally have. True. Well, before that scene, Rachel says to Peck and she's thinking about not going to the wedding, So the scene sort of serves that, I think as like a supportive scene from her friends, like that we're kind of arming you for the battle of this wedding, Like this wedding is the thing that you came to Singapore for. And so the closer like almost like a symbol of how to get ready for something as big as this, which is kind of nice, you know.

It's it's really it's like about her community helping her, right, And that scene is part of a larger kind of sequence where before that they're like eating dinner and Picklin is basically like gearing her up to be like you have to like you have to challenge this woman, like you need to show her that she that you're like a fighter, that you are enough. There's that whole like bock box thing. And then she said to the wedding yeah. And then at the end of that scene, Rachel's like,

what are you doing tonight? She's like, I don't I'm probably just hanging out of FedEx. Funniest it I would say, I was like, what are you doing? I got I guess do my send the mail? Doesn't take all night? I guess like myself up to do it and I might not even leave my bed so stressful thinking about FedEx um. And then in the aftermath of the wedding is Piglin again being a very supportive friend and you know she goes to stay with her. I really like

that friendship and how that all plays out. Yeah, so Makeover seen, you know, it's it's there. It's not the worst example we've ever seen. When did you guys first cry? In this? Okay, we are coming on what when I saw there? There are quite a few like kind of female gaze shots in this movie, where like when Michael's taking a shower and I just like it's like, but I love that because like Asian men, I feel like

often are de sexualized in Hollywood. Soul they made a point to like almost so much where you like, I get it, and they're like really linger on makeout scenes to be like these are sexual beans. Like there's a lot of Asian people, what do you think they come from? Sex? It's also a trope in Asian dramas. There's always a shower scene to introduce a male love interest. In the Asian drama, there's always like what who it is showering? You're just like, okay, I've seen it all, so it's

like a nice nod, did that? So my Okay. We're coming off of our MoMA Mia episode in which I talk a lot about how I'm not a huge fan of wedding culture. I you know, don't like a whole lot of what weddings are about. The wedding scene in this movie made me cry each time I saw, each of the three times I saw it. It's really whenever the lights go down, like the illuminated little like fireflies or kind of and then it's it's so beautiful. This whole movie is very beautiful. When it really gets me,

I know, it's crazy. I was like that scene, it's just like the number of wet facts taken to this room. Afterwards, it's when Nick mouth I love you and she mails it back, and I was just like, I've never cried at a wedding in real life. I've never cried at a wedding scene in any movie ever until this one. And I just don't know who I am anymore. So I cried a lot of the moms scenes. I cried at the wedding, but I was also thinking about wet facts.

It's like, I want to see the scene of the poor people who have to clean this wedding, the pas so much like there's just so or like in the world in the movie, like the janitorial staff were like, well, good for them, like like fire up their wet bags. H would see that short film. But anyways, cried at the scene at the end between Rachel and her mom and her mom just even when her mom showed up

and man, yeah, mom seems to make me cry. Mine was at the very end when Eleanor gives her that look it's like barely an acknowledgement but there's like just so much in that moment or I was just like, yeah, they get it. It was I really like the restraint that that scene showed too, because it could have been like they met up again. Oh I'm so sorry for being Oh it's okay, thank you for accepting me into your family, and it's like none of that happened, none

of that needed to happen. That like classic and I always cry at this the version of the scene as well, where it's like you are my daughter now, but there You're right. There is a ton of restraint in that scene and is communicated with a look nice. Yeah. Is there anything else anyone wants to say about the movie? Not too late to cast me in the sequel? It's dee say to you too, I'll be picking. So the only white people you see in this movie who have

lines are being racist? Um, which is the British guys. Yeah, the British guys at the hotel at the beginning, except for the one white guy comes in and he's all like eleanor my friend here, let me sell you my hotel, So he's being nice. But other than that, really, the only white people you see are either being racist or they are kind of just in the background, sort of the scenery of the movie, much like people of color

usually are in most movies. So it's really refreshing. I think minorities to get to embody racism movies, that's usually right unfortunately. Um but yeah, so this is a movie where white people are treated the same way that people of color normally are in white stories. So that was a great kind of reversal. There was like an article that said early on, when they're adapting, the scriptive producer asked Kevin if he would consider making Rachel white, and

what the fuck that would be? Like a white girlfriend and going to see the crazy rich Asian world. I'm so glad they didn't do that. God. That's so of course some would be like, hey, just throwing this out. Have you thought about Emma Stone, Crazy Scarlet, a gal Story, the Holy Trinity Asian American actors? So oh god. Um. There's also been some um criticism about the erasure of South Asian people. I don't know exactly population wise what they comprise in Singapore, but we do see like a

few brown people guards. Yeah, but that makes sense to me because the world, Like, again, I don't think this world is a free of criticism, Like they're really rich, privileged people, but I think their world is really elitist, so they probably do have a class thing. Yeah, and I feel like, totally it would be nice to see more movies about that. But totally it would have been weird if we then saw I don't know the workers or something and just like a serious scene about how

it's really hard and the decades. I feel like vaccine, vaccine. Yeah. I mean we do see the market and there is more diversity there. Yeah. I mean, if if anything, no movie isn't pervious to criticism. But to me, we just indicate, Okay, so we need more movies showing a wider range of different types of Asian people. Um, alright, well should we should we determine whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel tests, Yes we should, and yes it does A

million billion times a lot. I stopped counting. Right. There's a lot of different combinations, Um, Rachel and Araminta, Rachel and Pikulin, Rachel and her mom, Rachel and Eleanor. Although I would say the vast majority of conversations between women are about nick Or, the subtext is that gets For example, like when Aramont is like, hey, come to my bachelorette party and Rachel's like, I'd love to. Does that pass the Bechtel tests because they don't specifically say a man's name.

But she's saying, hey, come to the party that celebrates me being single before I marry a man. Kind of thing. We can fall We can fall down that rabbit a day. Um. But there are like whenever Rachel's like, piglin, you have a cocktail dress in your trunk and she's like, yeah, I'm not an animal that passes. Are doing tonight? I don't know? Going to is my favorite? Passively they're like wow, okay, cool and her and the princess talk about something in

the front. Yeah. They talked about micro loans and how how giving women micro loans uplifts the economy. So feminist icon princess whatever her name was, she had a name, and therefore it passes. Yeah, it passes a bunch of times. And and like we were saying, speaking to just like the way women are portrayed. I mean we see a lot of different types of relationships between women, which is good for any movie for sure, definitely, And a lot

of twins and plantation. Oh, I remember the one thing I didn't say that was in the book that wasn't in the movie. One, so that she has three Pecanese dogs in the movie. I don't remember what the first one was called, but it's like Rockefeller and Vanderbilt. But the third one in the book is named Trump, as they changed for the movie. Well, they do say like Piglin says, like, my mom like designed her house after Donald Trump's back. That was funny. But I think they

were like, we shouldn't have this dog named Trump. It's so crazy because the book was written five years ago already. Yeah, Dystopia amazing. Let's write the movie on a nipple scale, where we rate based on its portrayal and representation of women zero to five nipples. Did you feel like how women are exists in Chinese culture was represented accurately by this movie or were there blind spots that were like

missed because that was the one. I mean, when I was thinking about my rating, I'm like, I just like I have lower knowledge of like is this an accurate representation of women in this culture? I think they had a lot of different kinds of women in this culture too. In the movie, which I liked. I mean, Rachel's the classic like high achieving Asian American. Her mom is, you know, like an immigrant that came up through her own education.

And then there's the very wealthy people. I would say there weren't enough average Asian representation, like people who were mediocre. There were extraordinary Asians represented that was fine, But yeah, I would say overall, did a good job. Yeah, yeah, I don't feel like that, like I probably put like a gay girl in there or something that a gay guy, but they also exploited, didn't expecisely say who was gay. I feel like it was applied. So I feel like

it's still very broadcast applied coded gay characters. Man, right, we gotta say, yeah, well, the same with Oliver's character is and mom listeners if we have any you know, queer listeners that went away in about this Oliver character, I think because he identifies himself as the rainbow sheep of the family, I think that's to me, that's identifying himself as being queer. Um. So I don't even know if he's coded queer. I think he's like pretty explicitly

that way. He just he doesn't like scream I'm gay, but you know by him staying rainbow sheep of the family, I think that's him identifying himself as queer. I do wonder if he sort of falls into sort of a trope queer character, especially a gay man who loves fashion and it's like all about like look at your earrings and look at your shoes and dress and like. So I also the Vita Rooster test came to mind, where it's like, Okay, is there identifiably queer characters in the story.

Would removing them have an impact on the story? I would argue with his character, it wouldn't make that much of a difference, and that Paklin would basically take over whatever. And again that was another thing where I'm like, this is more of a failure of this genre that this movie doesn't correct per se. Yeah, but I also think it's a little bit like culturally, like that's probably that if they started talking about it would just be its

own movie. But like I do think he I don't know how accepting his family is of him being gay, So maybe that is one of the reasons he's kind of marginalized in the story and also maybe indirectly like to the main arc as well. Yeah, right, and just like mainstream movies are still so hesitant to like have out characters, right, I don't know, Like Rainbow Sheep, I do. I I agree that is identifying as queer, but it's just like, I don't know. Yeah, it's still be handled better,

still feels a little bit tropy, Yeah, for sure. So then I guess from my rating, I'm going to give it a four and a half. I mean, just the obvious wonderful that this movie exists in terms of its representation. Hope to see many more movies like this to come. Hopefully this is the beginning of a large trend of seeing many more Asian characters represented on screen, many more Asian stories mainstream Hollywood story. I think that the female characters who we do get to know, which there are

quite a few, are developed well. They're written carefully. We are given much more context and background for most of them than we're usually afforded in most movies. I do wish that Rachel was a socialist and that she was meeting now she probably goes a brunch. Brunch is such

a thing. But yeah, and I like that this movie doesn't adhere to a lot of the tropes of a rom com and maybe because it's not even really a rom com, like it's not about the pursuit and the developing of that romantic it's a but Yeah, I think I would say most of the characters are developed well, written responsibly. Four and a half nips? Who are you

giving them too? I'm going to give two to Aquafina, I'm gonna give to to Constance Wu, and I'll give my half nip to Oliver because I like his character too. I'm gonna give us a four point to five. Yeah, yeah, because I just feel like, kick give a or then we'll feel like satisfied with ourselves and stop making movies. Keep you know, you gotta have a little bit of aspirational growth. It's Thetaan way. Yeah, the game theory, I felt like it was a really strong story, like really

well written. All the women had an agency. I mean, obviously it's about love, so it's still going to go back down to the idea of like being with a man, but you know, it works with any you know, I didn't have to be a man. It's any relationship is hard and meeting the family's conflict and it's all about sacrifice. So I didn't think him being a man and like control in her life was central to and he wasn't asking to control her life too, which is nice for sure.

Um so yeah, so I high high score. And also just Rachel is like, you know, I don't know, it's just like me privileged bitch. Are you giv to um? Yeah, I'll give up. Let's see, I'll give I'll give two to Constant Woo. I'll give one to Aquafina. Can I give one to the soundtrack. I really like the for it. Okay, I'm gonna give one to the soundtrack. Great soundtrack, and then i'll give I'll get the quarter to the director. I feel like you did a good job of realizing

the well rounded vision. Hell yeah, so I'm gonna be five nipples because everyone should see this movie again next weekend, trying to promote it as much as I can. Who would I give nipples to? I would give two to Adelaie Limb, the writer. I just didn't feel like there's

such great um cultural stuff that she did. One to Constance Woo, went to Eleanor, went to I'm sorry Michelle the goddess Michelle, Yo, she's amazing, And then I would agree with Teresa went to the soundtrack as well, because I think the soundtrack did this really good job of showing like the cultural dissonance of being Chinese in American and it kind of gave that to the white audience because it was familiar, but it was different at the same time. So I thought it did a great job.

I want to take back one of my nips from Constant to give it to Michelle tough Luck Conscious maybe next time go back here syndicated show. I'm gonna go four and a half. I really like this movie. I'm excited to see it again, like knowing everything we've talked about, it's like cool too, I don't know, just like I feel like it will be a slightly different, more informed viewing,

which I'm excited for. The only half nip I'm docking it for is the times it falls into the rom com traps that I don't love as much, the creepy brother trope that the few things and I just wish that. And this is again a genre thing, but I wish that Picklin had more of an arc herself other than getting to see cool, rich people stuff. She's already rich right right where It's like she I felt there were like there was room in the story for her to have a small arc of her own, and that character,

for whatever reason, just didn't have it. And Aquafina is amazing and every scene and can do more. So I would have liked to see her be you know, allowed to do more as a you know, comic relief character as well. Anyways, four and a half given too to MICHELLEO because I love her, Giving one to Constance, give one an Aquafina, And I'll just toss my last half one out to Jimmy O Yang, who we didn't mention the whole damn time. Bernard Tye. He wears shiny underwear.

That's what we know about him. It's what we know, and he gets my half nip. Well, thank you so much, Teresa and Sita. What a treat, What a treat it's been. Thank you for having us so fun. What would you like to plug anything? Where can people follow you? And I'm sure I have a podcast what you guys about have been on It's called You Can Tell Me Anything, So you guys can check it out. Checked it out? Check it out. Yeah, people confess secrets to me, So

that's on on the podcast. Places that's great, And where can people follow you and oh, I'm on Twitter at Larisa t l e R s t E Nice Perfect, And I'm on Twitter as Slowbear s l O b e a R. And I run a monthly show Interior Defined, which is a couch store, but you can come and enjoy the couches and the store feeds you one and pizza, So look out for it on my Twitter. Great, well, thank you so much for coming in. You can find us on the Bechtel Cast at Bechtel Cast on all

of the Things. If you have any thoughts on this episode, on this movie, we always love to hear from you. We have a Patreon a k Matreon at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast where we do to bonus episodes of months. This comes out in the very end of August, so okay, we've already heard our Doubt episode, so we're closing out Jamie's Bed a month. Doubt and Hackers comes

out the feminist text Hackers with Matthew Lillard topless. Also, don't forget to go to our website Bactel cast dot com and there you can access our t public store where we have all of our freaking merch at your feminist Icon t shirts. Get your queer icon t shirts. To get your alphre Melina feminist icon t shirts. Get your cat facts with Caitlin. There were no cats in this movie, but just a reminder the cats to have eight nipples. And that's cat facts with Caitlin. Yeah, we've

got clothes, we've got mugs, we've got wall art. So get whatever that is and hang it on your wall. Also, if you live in the Los Angeles area, you we are doing a live show in l A on September fifteenth at nine pm. It's at a venue called The Ruby on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood. We are talking about Edward Scissor Hands and our guest is Maggie may Fish. So if you go to our website, beckelcast dot com and you click on the live appearances tab, you'll be

able to find the link to get tickets. So come check us out September fifteen, nine pm. We will see there and thanks for listening. Thank you for listening. Go see this movie. Bye bye,