Cadet Kelly with Keah Brown

I'm a fifteen year old girl. Well, now that you put it like that, it sounds really cool and appealing, and I will also be in love with it. Let's kiss, And that's the plot of today's movie. Us Bedel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante. And uh, this is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point. Jamie, what is it? What's

the Bechdel TESTT right? The Bechdel Test is a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test. Uh, there's many variants on it. What we use it requires that two people of a marginalized gender with names must speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. A lot of movies don't pass two lines of dialogue or also, again, are kind of new? Are the newest

caveat meaning ometer? Yeah? Is it a meaningful conversation that could the conversation be removed from the movie and nothing would be impacted kind of thing. Fortunately, I don't think a problem will really be having today because today we are unlocking one of our favorite episodes from our Patreon a k a. Matreon. We do this, but we've only done this a couple of times. There's over eighty episodes

in the Matreon. If you're in, if you've run out of main feed episodes, that is where we cover maybe like not even less requested movies, just kind of like more niche goofy goofy movies, an extremely goofy movie. I can't believe we haven't covered any goofy movies. We'll get there. I know that Danny Fernandez wants us to come on and talk about goofy movie. Thank goodness, but yeah, we're unlocking one of our favorite episodes today. Uh, and it's

a returning guests to the main feed. Kiabron talks to us about Cadet Kelly, d Colm classic sexual awakening for many Yes, I, as you'll hear on the episode, I until very recently didn't know what a d coom was, so Cadet Kelly was one of the first ones I had ever seen. You've come a long way since we recorded this too, I mean I have, You've been radicalized

a little bit. It's it's true, it's true. But you know, we did a d Come Month last year on the Matreon and this episode that we're unlocking is one of the ones from that. And um, yes, now I'm now I'm full on d com head. We've literally had an iconic d com star on our damn show at this point. It's incredible. Gracie Gillham, you know where d com heads

die hard for life. Uh. And Cadet Kelly, certainly, I feel like is among many generations at this point considered a top tier d com in spite of all its military industrial themes. Yes, so there you go. So this is um, this is a Matreon episode, So you might notice it's a little loose. It's a little it is extremely goofy. If you're like, hey, I love these vibes, you can sign up for it if you if you said choose, yes, this is our plug for the Matreon.

And because we usually plug it at the end of the episodes and I'm like, people probably you know, they skip over that. So here we are at the beginning plugging the Matreon. Go to patreon dot com slash pectel cast. It is five dollars a month. It gets you these two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the as you said, Jamie, eighty or more episodes that we have accumulated. Yeah, I'll read off some recent some you seen episodes to what your appetite. We just we just finished. Okay, this

is one of our worst themes. This is not borat Titanic month. We did borat subsequent movie film and Titanic again. We've also recently did we We observed Molina March this year with Ralph Breath day Internet and the Da Vinci code. We did I forget what we called this movies with an animal in the title February. Oh yes, it was something very clunky like that. Yea with Chicken Wren and Coyote Ugly, and then we did Amy Adams. She can do it all. She can act in any genre. January

uh with Enchanted and Arrival. And that's just a taste. That's just a taste. There's eighty six episodes on the Matriot. Good lord cow Wait is that the letterboxed list that you're pulling from. No, I'm pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia. That is up but wow, incredible. Shout out to our whoever edits our Wikipedia page because it is up to date. I please, if it is you, apologies for us forgetting that it's you. Please let us know who you are

so that we can properly credit you. And like we I just I feel indebted to you because you know more about our show than I do. I referred to this page all the time. Amazing. Um, so enjoy this episode, this unlocked episode on Cadet Kelly and enjoy Kia Brown the bel cast High Matron Im matronds it's part too of d Calm July. I have genuinely been enjoying this um this DCLM dually. I mean, as with every d

coom july a k we've never done this before. But but I I, Caitlin, You're becoming a full fledged d com stand. After years of saying things like what is this? I don't like these? These are all of a sudden You've seen the light. I truly owe you, Jamie and everyone an apology because I did not know how influential these films were. I just I didn't realize that everyone had grown up with them except for me. I didn't realize how important they were to so many people and

still are for some of them. I just I completely somehow missed. I mean, I know how. It's because I grew up without cable, and I also again I was I'm the age where as they were becoming popular, I was aging out of like that demographic of media intended for children and families. So that's how I haven't seen any of them. But now that I've seen a few of them, and like a fair number of the ones

I've seen, including you, went off curriculum. I went off not for the podcast or anything, although I think it would be really interesting to cover this movie someday is teen Beach movie. It is my favorite movie now. It's so good. It's just it's like back to the Future meets Pleasantville meets west Side Story. It's great. I loved it. So um yeah, I mean I'm I guess you could say I'm I'm a d coom stand I yes, I'm so glad that you're here with us, with the d

com community. Let's keep covering d coms. The podcast is pivoted now, but we have been covering some so many we just did we have when you listen to this, There's an upcoming Cheetah Girls episode that I'm really excited about and so but today, so we we conducted a survey to see taking the temp what the d coms he felt strongest about. Also, it Warrant saying that when we were soliciting options on Twitter and Instagram, the most overwhelming response we've ever gotten to anything ever in the

history of ever. Truly, people feel really strongly. I had no idea, but so the options we gave you. And if you're listening, I guess you already had access to this info. But we had a Smart House motocross Cadet Kelly spoiler or thirteen here on double teams. It was it was a tight ish race between Smart Housing Cadet Kelly. I thought Smart House was gonna win. But what did I know? You can't I I felt I felt like

Cadet Kelly was going to take it. But we should cover smart Houses sometime because it's like techno future dystopia. I haven't seen it in like at least ten years, but I feel like maybe it holds up. But you know that's not always true. Well, next year for d Coom July will cover teen Beach Movie and Smart House. We might even cover Decome July. We might observe Decom July this September. We just don't know. Wow, the calendar is unpredictable. On the Matreon, something is July comes in September.

It's technically Portman July right now, but I heard that this year that falls in next March. Well, also, we can't forget about j LO July, which we last year observed in September. That's true, And when j Lo July comes back around again, who knows, it's always July, but it's never July, so it's Decome March and uh my head hurts now anyways, connect Kelly one by over a hundred votes on on the Matreon, and so true. We are discussing Cadet Kelly. I am very excited to talk

about this movie with you, Caitlin. Um, this was your first time saying it correct? Correct? Okay, this was one of my favorite D coms as a kid, but like many D coms, I remembered basically zero plot points. Um, but I did. Um, you know, I just this was a movie that I really liked as a kid, and I like to watch it over and over, and I like to watch certain parts over and over, and then you get older and you're like, I see, I see what was going on there? Um. Cadet Kelly is fascinating

and it's good and quick context. I guess before we do the recap because we also have a secret surprise guest today, UM to talk about all of the queer glory and Cadet Kelly. So we'll cut to that little segment a little later on. But yeah, be ready for that. But so, this movie came out in two thousand and two. At the time, it was the highest, like the most viewed Disney Channel original movie ever. Eight million people tuned in on the premier night of this movie, which is

pretty pretty huge. Um, And I think that a lot of the reason that was was because they pulled out all the stops for this Deacon. They took two of their most popular stars on the channel, Hilary duff A k Lizzie McGuire, which was like kicking off at this and then Reren Stevens Ak Christy Carlson Romano ak also Kim Possible, but I don't think Impossible was out yet

at this point. Anyways, to Disney Channel icons who had never been in anything before, and so it was an epic crossover and it and Gary Cole, I'm sure was very cold in the movie. Tween girls loved, they demanded it, so you know, I think that some people would say it was Hillary and Christy Carlson Romano who brought us, but I can say, as a tween who was there as a nine year old at this time, I can tell you for sure we were tuning in for Gary Cole.

Very cool. I know, I was shocked because normally I feel like, I mean, d comes cast, you know, not not that Gary Cole is like an A lister, but he tends to be in cinema that is like getting wide studio releases, and you know, he's like a he's a recognizable person, a character actor, and then like d coms will pull from like the like F or G list actor. My theory is that because I looked this up because I was like, I feel like I know

what Gary Cole did this movie. I think it's because he had a twin daughter at this time, so I think it was one of those I mean, also, I can't imagine these movies paid particularly well for their supporting cast. Again, they have fourteen dollars for their budget per each d COM, and you know twelve of those dollars are going to Hillary Duff. So but but I think I looked it up and Gary Cole has has a daughter who I think would have been like seven or eight when this

movie came out. So I bet it was like one of those choices to say, like, guess what, I'm cool, and then he was cast as the lamest character. So it's too bad. Yeah, that makes sense though, cool. Are we ready for the recap? Let's recap cadet Kelly? So we meet Kelly Collins. That's Hillary Duff. She goes to an arts school in New York City? Ever heard of it? Who is she? The Cheetah Girls? I love? This was also like a peek I'm sorry, I'm already like getting excited,

but this was like peak. I mean, I guess this is still peak, but like tween entertainment loves teen art schools in New York. There was also a show out at this time. It's called Tyana on Nickelodeon. I think I brought it up before because the title character is in Freaky Friday. But um, it was all a about a girl pursuing her artistic dreams in New York but she was only fifteen. Very exciting, very compelling plot. Sorry, Okay,

So she goes this art school. We meet her parents, who are divorced from each other, but they still have their unfriendly terms. Her dad is a has a job. I'm not sure he's a photojournalist. I think I think something. Yeah, it's kind of vague, but they're clothes. I did really appreciate that they made it, and I feel like amicable divorce, not life ruining divorce on screen. Um is pretty rare representation, to the point that even wanting I was like, WHOA,

you don't that's so nice. You don't see that a lot? Like they broke up because they simply were not in love anymore. And it's fine. Yeah, also like just the fact that Disney acknowledges divorce at all, something that surprised zing because like they're like, yeah, well maybe one of the parents is in the picture, but it's because she's dead. There. No, I found that very But that's that's the beauty of the dcon. That's where they test these ideas, is that true?

Are we is America ready? And then the tweens are always ready? And then it makes its way into the theatrical releases. Sure, and then we get Moana, the most progressive text of all toy I think we can draw a direct line from this to Moan. Okay, so um. We also meet her mom, who's a working woman. Her job is also a little unclear. She's an editor and that I'm done editing. When she su she's like, I'm done, I'm done edit video editors. Is she the editor of

a like a major magazine trope? I mean, if we're to guess based on tropes, she's almost in the magazine. She's like, she's like Jenna from Yes, Wow. Can't belief I got that reference. We look at us, look at us wowe. So, Kelly's mom announces that she is getting married to this guy. Joe that's Gary cole Um. He is a retired military general. And Kelly takes this news well.

But then there's another surprise coming Kelly's way, and it is that they are all going to move to upstate New York because Joe got a job as the commandant whatever that is. I don't know. I didn't fact track to see if any of this stuff was correct. That this is cannon true, this is canon for the military. Yeah. So he's the commandant of a military school where Kelly will have to attend. And Kelly is very upset by this, but she has no choice in the matter. So she

arrives to the military school. She does not fit in. She is not like the other military school students. Also, at this point we get it's set up that there are students tossing around plastic rifles in unison um aka the drill team, which will become important. It becomes a

plat point. Yeah. Then she meets Carlo. That's Andrea Lewis, who is nice and for for listeners who were very watching television all the time at this time, Hazel from Degrassi Andrea Lewis, they're so all my Degrassi heads, Yes, that is Hazel got It never watched that show. She later dates Drake on DeGrassie. She was Drake's girlfriend on degrassi and She but then she broke up with him because he was being an asshole. Well speaking of assholes.

So Carla is nice. But then Kelly meets Captain Jennifer Stone ak Christie Carlson Romano, who is mean um, and Kelly is like, you know what, this military school needs to be a kinder, gentler place and it's up to me to change it, which never ends up happening, by the way. Um. Then Kelly has another run in with Jennifer, but Carla is like, hey, I'll teach Kelly how to military and Jennifer is like fine. We also meet Brad. That's Sean Ashmore. He's the cutest boy on campus who

all the girls like. But Captain Stone likes him, but does she will talk about that later. Um, so he is he is off limits to all the other girls. There's a welcome back dance later that week, and then Kelly takes Carla to her house so she can try on her dresses. Carla doesn't have any dresses of her own. It feels like there's an implication that she comes from like a low socioeconomic background, and the movie simply refuses to get more specific, frustrating. Then we see all the

students doing drills. Kelly is struggling with this or I don't what is that what you call it? I don't know they're doing. They're like crawling in the mud whatever that's there. It's not obstacle code, like I don't know. Yeah, I don't know a military jargon and I don't care to find out. Okay, Kelly struggling. Jennifer continues to give her a hard time, and she's like, you're going to stay here and do this until you get it right, which means that Kelly misses the dance um because she's

like doing this obstacle course again with Gloria. But it's also raining and so there it's like kind of like hot, like it's weird, like they're they're like, oh, we're so like it's so we we're bonding dear like clothes or clinging to my body and I don't I don't mean to like, I'm not I'm not trying to sexualize Hillary Duff. I'm saying my experience watching this as a kid was like there wet like that. It was the vibe. Yes,

So then Kelly falls down. She's already muddy, and then she falls down a muddy hill, tumbles through the doors into the dance, right into Jennifer, the most intense hill tumble of also like this, I guess Lizzie McGuire already would have at this point, but like, this movie solidifies Hillary Duff's queen of the prat fall. I mean, she prat falls NonStop, but this prop fall, she the falling has stopped, but she continues to fall into Christie Carlson

romana for thirty seconds. She's like what what like, how have you not regained equilibrium at this point? Like she can't stop falling. It's because she she runs long after she would have like she would the momentum would have slowed by that point, but she keeps barreling through the dance, crashes into Jennifer and then like is hanging off of her and falling onto an into her for another thirty seconds and it's incredible. And then Brad is like not

helping Jennifer at all. He's like, oh, I didn't know you could get down in dirty or something. It's what he thinks is a hilarious joke, and you're like, Brad, shut up, shut up, Brad. Anyway, so Kelly has gotten mud all over Jennifer's white dress, and Kelly just continues to have a tough time at school. Her mother tells her that she is regnant with Joe's baby. Gree gnat as hell will talk about it. It's the plot baby she got pregnant with the second act of the movie.

Oh God, Okay, and then um, Jennifer is continuing to harass Kelly. Um. So then Kelly puts paint in Jennifer's hair, which she gets in huge trouble for there's a whole hearing and her stepdad punishes Kelly by assigning her to help the drill team. This is a team that flings around plastic rifles, um, and she has to like shine

their shoes and stuff. Then she starts to notice that what she thought was like not cool thing that was done by robots is actually really beautiful um, and she's like, maybe I could do this, Maybe I could fling rifles around. She tries, and she's not really She's really bad at it, but she's still Her interest remains. And then there's this meat where the team underperforms, and Brad is like, Oh, we need inspiration, we need originality, we need creativity, and

Kelly's like, wait a minute, we need increative dancing. She's like, I went to an arts school in New York City. Ever heard of it? I think I'm creative. And then she asks Gloria, who we saw in like the obstacle course scene, to coach her and teach her how to do the drill rifle flinging, and so we get a training montage. Then Kelly tries out for the team and she makes it, and she and Jennifer have that amazing

dance off in the quad. It's this isn't this is If you don't remember anything that happened in the movie, you still remember this scene the quad dancing for sure. So Brad sees them dancing and he's like, wow, yes, this is the kind of stuff we need. So then Kelly approaches Jennifer and she's like, Hey, what if we're like partners and we like do this dancing thing at the regional competition that's coming up. Because I guess they don't hate each other anymore. Well, they've always been in

love and then it's the day of the regionals. But wait a minute, Kelly's dad, who was supposed to be there, isn't there, and she's worried that something might have happened to him, so she decides to leave the competition with her stepdad Joe Mr Gary Cole trying to impress his daughter aka sir, which is what he is. I think in IMDb his character's name is sir, which is so

funny to me. Yes, this is well, that's also like, that is such a weird trend at this there well, not like calling an executive male figure sir is not a trend, but or it's a very long trend. But there there was. Do you remember there was a character named sir In Holes? John Voight plays a character named yes, Mr Sir, Mr Sir. And then there was also in a series of unfortunate events like mysterious male figure who only identified as sir. It was a thing in the

early aughts. Wow. Also, where's our Holes episode? Where is our Holes episode? Honestly, I am still like struggling with deciding what my birthday picks are. Maybe Holes is gonna knock off something, well, I would love that. Jamie Love Holes I love Holes, Zero in Holes, one of my biggest childhood crushes. Loved him. Oh my gosh, yeah, I

love the book, love the movie. Okay, So Joe and Kelly are like, we gotta go find my dad, and they go to look for him in the wildern in the wilderness, and he has fallen off of a cliff, which, again, this is basically the same climactic sequence from Cheetah Girls where a dog falls in a hole. Instead we have Dad falls off a cliff. This is funny. It's funny because he has following up a cliff, is not hurt,

is not hurt? Not right. There is that shot of him turning over his shoulder, unscathed, not even like a makeup scratch. He's just like, Kelly, you're here. I was like, what was preventing you from getting up? You seem fine? Like even though he felt what was like, I don't know, forty or more feet off of this cliff onto a rock, and it's like, he, how did you survive? He would have been so hurt if he had survived the fall, but instead he's literally not a mark on the man.

But then he's still pulled onto like a gurney. Yes, it's really weird. It's really I don't understand. Also, in both this movie and in Cheetah Girls, where again the climactic sequence at least partly involves a character falling in some way, in both cases those things don't have any thing to do with the rest of the story, Like why suddenly are we focusing on the dad again? And it's like, what, she's in the middle of a competition

right now. I feel like the d com playbook takes the save the cat mentality very seriously, literally to the point where you, yeah, they're like, we need to save someone, because they do interrupt the climax of the movie. Basically, Hillary Duff misses a lot of the climax of the movie to go save the dad, Like it's a whole I don't know why it happens. I do. I will say I prefer the way it resolves and Cheata Girls better, which is they sing the dog out of the hole.

They just lift the dad off the clip. I would rather they sang him up the clip. But well, I guess. And so in the cheats they're using there, they're using their singing skills, which we which is a huge part of the story. Cadet Kelly ll she's using her obstacle course training to save her dad, so there's still some plan payoff there. I guess there's definitely planned. I think that that was very intentionally done. I just I think it's more fun to watch the cheaty girls sing a

dog out of a hole. But that's just you know, we're all different also, and I didn't realize this until my second watch of the movie, where him having a tendency to fall is also planted, because in the very beginning of the movie, when he is picking her up at her arts school, he's like balancing on a ledge

and then just falls off of it. So I guess they're the screenwriters like, well, we have to establish that he tends to fall girls, the climax won't make any sense, which is like really looking out for the viewer, maybe a little too much. It's not absurd that anyone on a cliff might fall off of it, right then, Harry it to cliffs they're slippery. But but I appreciate the plant. Yes,

it was very narratively important. So then they saved the dad And this is the conclusion of a weird subplot that I don't think needs to be there where like, well, I guess we can discuss it. But she's like, oh, my stepdad, who has been this rigid military man this whole time, is finally learning feelings, learning how to be a dad, blah blah blah. I don't hate it, Yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess it's like, why is so much real estate given to the dad's all of a sudden,

I don't hate that. Like men learn how to have feelings. That's nice, like military and men specifically too. I thought that was like a cool thing. We'll talk about it. Yeah. Um. Anyway, so they returned to the competition just in time for Kelly and Jennifer to do their dancing thing um, which is a part of the rifle slinging. Then Kelly's school gets second place in the competition, and then I think, like,

Jennifer promotes Kelly. She's like, you're the cadet captain now, which I didn't realize she had the power to do, right. I don't know if it's like I hope this happens for you, or if she's like, I'm promoting you because I have the authority to do that. What she should be doing is apologizing. But that that's just not what this movie is going to do, but it does so many other things. Their relationship is still kind of abusive them. Yeah,

and then that's the story. I think they get second place and then um, yeah, she learns the value of having gone to military school. I get question Mark, I guess.

So what we're gonna do with this episode was we're going to now to a discussion we had with the wonderful writer Kia Brown, who is just a full on Cadet Kelly stand an expert, and we're going to start by having a discussion with her about a lot of things, but mainly focusing around um, the queer coded or perhaps just queer themes of Cadet Kelly, and then we'll pop back in at the end and talk about a few other things. So enjoying Kia. So the first thing we want to do is to go into a segment with

a special guest. She is a journalist. She's the author of the book The Pretty One on Life, pop culture, disability, and other Reasons to Fall in Love with Me. It's Kia Brown. Hi, thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. I'm really pump you're a Cadet Kelly scholar. Yes, that's my resumetor my website or something. Yeah, I am

a scholar, thank you. So a major thing about this movie that a lot of people have latched onto is the relationship between Kelly and Jennifer among other characters, and the romantic tension, the queer subtext, or in some case for some people, like it's like a queer text for them, not just so, it's almost exclusively what's been written about this movie since to all do with the queer Let's let's go with text. Let's go with text. But yeah, we're so excited to hear to hear your your thoughts

on this. You know you've spoken to this before one of our favorite podcasts, Let's hang out. Yes, yes, so we'll start. But yeah, just tell us what your relationship is, what your history with the movie is. Um, well, I grew up like we all did, Hailary Duff, and so when her and Raven Simone were carrying Disney on their backs for that like section of time when nobody else was doing anything worthy, they were like, fine, we'll do it. It's okay, and um no, Hillary Duff was like, I'll

give you by time. Daven was like yeah, me too, sure whatever, pay me um and Cadet Kelly came out and I was like, I was like, wow, this is so great. Like I was like, well, first of all, I've never really been a big fan of like military stuff, but I was like, we love Hilary Duff, so I'll be watching. And then I watched it and I was like, oh, this is like really not straight. It is decidedly very gay. Yeah,

like this side of it. And then I got older and I was like, oh, I was really right in my the thanking thank you for being correct, because what there's nothing a bit straight about that everybody at all, Like, there's there's nothing, not even the of interest tracks that doesn't even Mark Brad Why is he there? Get him out? Almost see the little sparkle in his eyes of like he's like, I don't belong here, Get me out of

this movie. He's this vehicle is not for me. Here's so I can get paid and I respect Otherwise it's just what are he there for? He doesn't do anything really, like, he doesn't have any big moments. He spits on a shoe it's so gross, which just goes to that scene. I hate it to this I'm like, do you have to? I mean, like it's this whole thing, and I'm like, that's disgusting. Thanks. Yeah, he does it twice because at first he's like, that's not how you shine a shoe,

and then he spits on it. And then later I guess when they're meant to be the movie is trying to get you to think that Kelly is flirting with him. She's like, I could really use some more spit, and then he spits again. Yeah. I was like, Kelly, I don't know. I mean, Kelly is like not a very effective flirt with anyone, but that, but that was just that pushed me over the edge. I was like, stop asking. Isn't he like the X man who turns into ice?

Isn't that what happened to him? I don't know much about the man, but one of some who knows, but she keeps asking him to spit. And I felt watching it as a child, that we were supposed to be like and even though I just didn't, and I was like, I didn't think anyone felt that way when they watched it, you know, I didn't. I was like, this is too much.

Can we move on? Thank you? I think, I mean, I was very curious about like if Hillary Duff or Christie Carlson Romano, Ren Stevens my queen had spoken to this at all, and Christie Carlson Romano spoke about it in but it was very like, I don't know, very dodgy. I wish she had just been like, no, it's a queer movie, obviously, because she is giving like the most flirtatious performance I have ever seen. She like, she makes like maggot kink, like getting just like whoa. But Christie

caross Rama kind of like talks around it. She's like, I think that Disney films usually are very much about a sport or a family, and this one is about kids living on their own a boarding school. And then the reporter kind of repeated the question was like, okay, but is it a queer movie? Like you just described a movie. Uh, And Christie cross and Romana said, What I make of that is that this is art. Even

if it's a Disney Channel film, it's still art. And the reason why my films and TV shows have done well over time is because they have substantial value that obviously rings true with fans and fans of all ages. I feel blessed to have played Jennifer Stone, because I do think if she could have an influence over people going through all sorts of different things, then that's very flattering to me. So she doesn't answer the question, Oh

she really, She really talked around. She talked all the way around, and then she was like, god, bye bye. So I swear there must be something like when you sign a contract with Disney, there's some clause or something where it's like, do not talk about gay stuff. It has there's no gay stuff in our movie, like the Scientology. It's like, for twenty thousand years, you cannot. It's like that. It had to be contract. It's literally the only reason.

And I remember she she has a YouTube channel, Christie Girls in Romano, and she like filmed herself rewatching Candet Kelly, like her scenes in Kennet Kelly, and she was like yeah. She was like because some of the songs were different, I guess in the Disney Plus version, and like she was like, we had rainbow flags. I remember they're not like that in the Disney Plus version of it, but

she's like, I feel like they were a rainbow. And then it was just like weird because then she said it and then she paused herself and then swiftly moved on to something else, And I was like, oh, the c Or contract. Do you think they did well? There is a lot of rainbow imagery in this movie, between the blanket that Kelly is like, this is my blanket and I'm gonna have it on my bed, and then the hair that she like, the painting of the hair

that she puts on Jennifer is like in a rainbow. Yeah, right, So I I when I saw this movie when I was a kid, I knew that I really liked it, and I liked to watch it over and over and I couldn't articulate really why what it was that I liked about it so much, But I knew I really

liked it. But watching it now, it is like it feels like as close to a queer d coom as especially for this time as you were ever gonna get with with like the rainbow imagery of like it's Hillary Dove trying to, you know, be herself in this really oppressive environment and her like treasured object is a rainbow blanket. And then you have Christy Carlson Romano, who is you know, trying to basically like assimilate and thrive within the suppressive environment.

And she destroys the blanket, but she secretly thinks it's cool and like it's just the symbolism theism. I found this list on something called auto Straddle dot com um, where a contributor is my favorite website um, a contributor by the name of may ranks all one hundred Disney Channel original movies by lesbianism. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen, and it's it's just a list of literally over a hundred d cooms, right, and Cadet Kelly comes

in third, like the third most lesbians. Number one is Princess Protection Program. Yeah. Yeah, it is always kind of those like weirdly like military premises that like, you know, let this, I forgot about Princess Protection Program, all right. And then number two, which is one that we got a Bazilian request for as we were gathering requests for d comsum, was Moto Crossed. Okay, this is a good list. It's because even down to like the haircut, absolutely like

they were really on one. I really am, Like, I mean, the chemistry that these two have in this movie is incredible. It's like you're talking about Kelly, Kelly and Jennifer right, because to me, there are so many combinations of characters that you can like ship and like that there's like romantic tension between them because I was getting very strong. Carla has a biggest crush I've ever seen on Kelly.

Can we can we talk about it? Please? Because this is the hill I'm ready to die on, Like tired is you know, bless the Heart's tired is Kelly and Jennifer wired is Carla and Kelly all the way through you just she's like looking at it all loggingly. She

was like, Oh, I'll help you figure it out. Sure, I'll take over your little spit cleaning job so you can join the little gun whatever, uh like the gun whatever, the drill team, Like yeah, I'll stay over at your house and like we can pick out dresses for the dance. And I love you. I mean what Like that's that's her whole vibe the entire movie. And she's just like, I love you. I mean, if you're down for cool, it's not, it's fine. But I love Carla first, first

and foremost. Because I'm a huge Degrassy fan. It's Hazel like one of the iconic o G degrassy characters. I don't think i'd ever seen her in anything else. I forgot that this character was played by her, and uh, she's great. I wish that we knew more about her. I feel like everything we learned about her is extremely vague, to the point where I was like, is this going

to come back? Where she kind of makes it sound like she didn't have a great home life, but she words it like, well, if I could choose, it wouldn't have been the one I would have chosen, and then that that's kind of the last we hear of it. I wish that we got to know her better outside of like saying what a big crush she has on Kelly, which is amazing. I wish I wish the Kelly knew more about her, right, I wish that they've made some more illusions because it's like, Okay, so your whole life

wasn't great, but don't they have to pay for military school? Right? So like for it? You know, I wish like what is going is going on there? They didn't really give her more, but I wish that they did, for sure, because I love the actress who plays her. Andrew Lewis yes, she's she's like a two thousand's two thous I mean,

she's just an icon. She's the best, and she gives such a like sweet performance here too, of like when I just every time she walks away from the crowd because she's shy and like, so we're like, Carla, no, come come hang out with a group Carla, Like, um, yeah, I do wish we had just had gotten to learn more about her because at least with Jennifer, they kind of just say, like, oh, she's from a military family, so there's pressure on her, like and it's just a

sentence of context, but it is helpful in like knowing where she's coming from. But for some but like with Carla, it just seems like it comes up a few times, but it's just completely beaten around the bush and talked around and then you never find out. Yeah, it feels like deliberately glossed over. But then it's just it's such a bummer too, because like Kelly tells Carla a bunch of stuff about herself, but it's like, but Carla never gets yeah, Kelly, give Carla a chance to talk about herself.

I found it so one of my favorite even though it breaks my heart. But that scene when Carla sees Kelly called Amanda her best friend and then I'm like, it's like, oh, I did that. I did that. It was so sweet and she was so broken hearted. And then it was like wild because Kelly still didn't get it until her stepdad was like, you can have more than one best friend and she was like okay, dude, She's like, oh she's You're right, and I love it.

He was like two bed friends, two dads. You're like, which is another like even just quote straight marriage between Kelly's mom and Joe. It's like, no, I'm like shipping Joe and Kelly's dad. Right, they had a look between each other that was much more powerful than any look. Why else would Joe insist on like, Okay, we have to go find They don't even know what's why he's not there at the recital or whatever they're doing, but he's like we have to go. He's like, we have

to go find him. He might be hurt in the woods. And it's like Joe, like, you've got like you have to stay behind it your recital, Like this is such a big deal. But there's this whole weird subplot that like starts to overwhelm the main plot, but it's like the subplot between Kelly and her stepdad and then also like Kelly and her dad, Like it's all these weird dad related subplots that like start to take up too

much space. It was a very long scene, but the point is that, um, I'm pretty sure there was also a romantic tension between m Kelly's dad and two dads. Two dads. She even says like, I have two dads. They're definitely because the random baby on the way I was like, maybe the baby on the way is the compromise for them introducing Kelly's dad into their relationship Galaxy brain the plot baby, there's another weird thing with that, and this will bring it back to the relationship with Carla.

But there's a very bizarre interaction that Kelly has with her mom um when Kelly's mom is like, by the way, I'm gregnant, and she's like, don't worry, Kelly, I'll still love you. That was so I was like, Kelly did not that's not your first thought when you find out or that I was that that's not what you say to your child. I don't love you. And I've been thinking about that too, but but I probably still will

and I've loved you longer. I was like, but then she said something in between that She's like, I'll probably still love you, and then she says and I'm sure I'm going to love this baby. Like that's too much uncertainty. I have to have like headcanon theory about Kelly's mom. I think that Kelly's mom is going to wake up one morning and be like what am I doing? Because she like she she is. I don't know. I feel

like Kelly. Kelly's mom is kind of the atom of the plot in a lot of ways because it's like she's like a working mom and she's like an editor in New York and then she needs Gary Cole boom drops everything. She's like, Okay, I'm retired. I cook full time.

Which there's a lot we'll we'll talk about that as well, of like the military life and the pressures put on military wives, Like that's a very real thing, but the way that the plot frames it is kind of goofy, and it just seems like her life does a one eighty entirely. And then and then it sealed it for me when she was like, I think I'll love this baby. I'm like, I don't know that you're totally sold on the decisions you're making. Mom, Like I feel for her.

I do too, because I was like, like, when I watched it recent week, I was like, well, wait, so she just drops everything in New York forces her kid to go into military school. Feels like this is the right decision. So like you went from and I understand that people want to be homemakers like cool, but it just seems so odd to me that you you're dating this man and then you marry him and you're like, well,

I don't want to work anymore. All that work I don't want to do, and then bam, I'm gonna ship my kid off to military school when she's like in the middle of a school year and everything right art school and take her from everything she knows to be like, this is gonna be great for you, Kelly. No, it's that it's not. It's gonna be so bad. And I even tweeted, I was like, did she go to does she have to go into the army after military school? And people were like, no, chill, it's okay, she doesn't.

I'm like, thank god, because she probably doesn't want to. No, no, she believes in gun control. I love that, she explained, but she and then and then also that's also kind of on like her biological dad too for not like speaking up. He's like, oh yeah, like I'm just kind of a photographer. So I guess we're going to military school. I'm like, someone should be Maybee questioning the military school besides Kelly. Like even Kelly's best friend Amanda doesn't question it.

She's like, I'm gonna miss you this ups was like, why is no one standing up for Kelly. Yeah, that's the whole thing. But bringing it back to the Carla thing, so her mom is like, you know, I think I'll probably still love you. I'll probably also love this baby, probably, but I will love you longer Kelly. And that's what Kelly says to Carla, where it's like, yes, you're also my best friend. It's just that I haven't liked you as long as my other best friend. And it's like

this weird callback it's so weird. But as far as the Kelly Carla friendship slash potential romantic relationship, that was like the big one that I was shipping in the movie. That makes me so happy because I feel like a bazillion like articles. You know, it's not necessarily like prestige journalism that's being a lot of these. I've had a lot of sub stacked newsletters that are just like my favorite My favorite title was when a newsletter that came

out last year. Then the headline is just Cadet Kelly was lesbians, and then and the story continues. It's really fun. But yeah, they mostly focus on Jennifer and Kelly when there really is I mean, there's a whole menu of ships to be had because we also we haven't brought

up Gloria yet. Gloria love so oh my god, she's got she is and we get I mean we at least we get more backstory for her as well, which I thought was like that scene with her and Kelly is so nice and then they like stay friends and build their friendship and I like, I don't remember picking up on that ship as much when I was a kid, but this time I was like, I think Gloria was my top ship this year. Glory is just gorgeous. I felt like she had more of a thing with Jennifer

than Oh sure there was a vibe there. Yeah, they were they like, I mean, because it was they were like I don't know, I don't know how military school relationships work, but they were together all the time. Maybe I don't know, well so much weird stuff with Brad. But there's that scene where like Brad's in the distance and Jennifer thinks that she likes spread because like either she's suppressing her queer feelings or she doesn't know that she's gay yet or something. But she's just like, how

does my hair look? And then Glory is like it looks perfect, it always does. Well, yeah, you're just like, okay, Gloria. I yeah, I really like Gloria. I'm glad that she I kind of like forgot what her exact thread through the story was, and I was worried that we weren't going to get her back after and Kelly have, like I few, what she and Kelly have is just like a really strong, like powerful queer friendship and I love it.

And then and then when she comes back and she like teaches her how to guns, I don't know, there's like that's the that's it's the perfect way to describe Kelly's like teach me how two guns, and Gloria was like, Okay, I'll do it, and she teaches her to how guns and she gets really good at guns, and I don't I mean, the military industrial part of their friendship isn't my favorite, but it is very sweet. Like that friendship

is very sweet. I wish you got like another like last moment with Gloria and Jennifer, because that's the thing. Kelly also realizes the importance of paying someone for their time and effort. She's like, I need you to train me two guns, but I'm not gonna I insist on paying you. So here good, but I have to offer s spar She was like, welcome to my etap like

she's what she's like. And then isn't there some like occasional like the occasional use of a Hillary Duff voiceover was like accessories are always the way to a girl's heart. I'm like, all right, yeah, even when she was like I have to figure out how to fix this family and raise this baby and it's gonna be hard, and I'm like, aren't you fifty? Like she's right young, Like go out the side and play what do you mean, Kelly?

In general, I just just rewatching it this time, like Kelly is such a like good and open minded and like thoughtful person. I love her. She's when her when she finds out her mom is pregnant, She's like, I guess I have to be in the military because I

don't want my mom to get upset. While she's agnant, I'm like what what, Like she's just so concern the two women in the family, between Kelly and her mom, they make way too many compromises, just like, no, stop it, stop compromising for especially because you get the feeling that Kelly's mom is waiting for her to say, let's get out of here, and then she's like, oh, thank god, and then they could, they would just flee, but they're like not kid, because because Kelly wants to appease her mom,

her mom wants to appease Kelly and her new husband, and then they're just trapped in the military right and not when they get a thing. But Joe feels like the type of guy who you know, gets off of work on the weekend, drinks a little too much, says something like smart and like it's kind of nasty when he drinks, Like I don't know, I just kind of have I I was like, are you sure you want to,

but do you want to stay here? You could, like you guys could you could have the baby and then you could go, like you don't have to stay here at the military school around He's like the principle of the pact. Really, you really gave up your life so that you could go be a principle. That's cool, which is a choice. But I just I've always thought that, like in some way, she was like, can we go, Like we'll take Carla too, Like let's right, let's yeah,

we'll take Carla and the baby. We're fleeing the state, like we're getting out of here. It makes no sense why Kelly's mom would marry this guy like they have such I don't. I don't understand that relationship. I did, and I wish that I feel like even though I appreciate and we'll talk about this as well, but like I do appreciate like the Amica Bull divorce uh plot point, which I feel like you never get in movies, even though it is like not uncommon at all and just

like normalizes it. But but yeah, like the really only know that they met at a wedding. That's kind of the only I don't know. I just feel like something is really sinister is going on there. It just seems strange for like a woman you know, like well into her career and seeming to thrive at it. Like I wish we hadn't seen a discussion between Gary Cole and Kelly's mom just to get some context for like, you know, even just a line from Kelly's mom like this is

actually great. Like I feel like i I've finished what i wanted to do in this profession. I'm ready to move on. I'm sick of this city. Whatever it is, something not just like I feel like at this point, the reason she's with Joe is because he's more stable, right, But like he's so boring and like his whole thing was like, oh, well, you know, my dad was the principal of this school and his dad was also the principal, And it's like okay, but like do you do anything

for fun? Like what do you like? What do you do for fun? Do you watch TV? He used to guns for fun. It was so weird to how they were like, oh, the guns stuff. It's like super important, super serious, like don't make a makari of it. But it's also like, so you guys go to competitions and you play with guns and then you leave. How serious is that? Really? It is a gun recital. Like you hate to say it and you hate to hear it, but it's fully a gun recital. They're dancing that also.

I mean that that day dancing cemented in One Forever, well, the one where they're like kind of improvising the one and they have a dance off or yeah, whatever you would call that, but they're like, oh that was for me, that was my rewind moment. That and all the scenes where Christie Carol to Romano gets really close to Hillary Doub's face I know so often between a bunch of different characters and it's like just kiss already. It is

so funny time. I mean it is not, but like curious that Christie Crosson Romano like gave that performance and then was like all coy about it, you know, fifteen years later, Like I don't know, I was like, you know, Christie crows the Romano so close to Hillary Dub's face. Um, but yeah, this is just there. There really is just a full menu of queer ships in this movie, and it makes me very happy. I wish we'd just gotten more.

Carla agreed. Also, I think that the dances they make me laugh because the one on the quad is better than the one. Yeah, no, we like it's just like the one on the quad is better, and I'm like, how does that work? Look? Okay? Great? They were just like improv They're like yes and zips upsp or it's gonna like improv this whatever. And then the one that's like rehearsed, which like, there's some weird editing choices made in that scene, and I was like, who the funk

edited this movie? And I looked it up and it's a woman, And I felt really bad for thinking it was horrible editing because I was like, oh, women never get to be editors and movies when it can be mediocre too. That's true that that's always been our goal on this show, But you're right, the dance on the quad was much more enjoyable to watch, just better choreographed

than the weird one at the gun recital. And it's really like it also isn't saying much because they both weren't great, but given the shorts, the one in the quad was definitely better. Yes, yeah, and then you mentioned this earlier, Kia, But the fact that Carla ends up kind of being a part of the drill team, not like actually on the on the team, but she just like basically, Kelly's just like, I don't like to shine shoes. Will you like help me or we can you just

be here with me? And Carlos just like, yes, I have an enormous crush on you, so I will be I will go wherever you are. Literally that's the only explanation because I would not be like, oh yeah, I'll shine shoes even though I don't have to write, because like Kelly is doing it as a punishment. And then she's just like, hey, can you do my punishment with me?

And Carlos like yes. It's like, well I think kids, I don't know, like and then and then Carla tries to reverse engineer and she's like, this is actually because the military means that I should shine shooes with you because I'm in love with you, But it's actually because of the military, did you know? And Kelly was like, okay, is so oblivious to Carla's crush on her. It is she needs to open her eyes and see the light. Um, well, Kia, do you have any other thoughts about yes, I do

that quickly, Yes, I didn't like at the end. Okay, so when Jennifer is like, oh, my family is moving and like I hope that you become a whatever and like get a little maggot just like you or whatever, and I was like, but how we don't glorify this little rank thing that you have going on and tell tell you to leave military school. I just like you're giving her the wrong message, like she's not supposed to

be all hard and mean or whatever. Like I don't know, I just I thought about that when I was rewatching it. I was like, no, I don't want her to get another magat. I want her to go home. I want I also was like that choice. I I vaguely remember that, but it felt a little bit cruel where so many of these d coms, like it was assumed that there was going to be a sequel, but this, this kind of the end of this movie kind of like slams

the promise of a sequel. It just like slams the door in your face, like, no, they don't go to school and they're never gonna kiss. Stop dreaming Jamie, Like they're like they're never going to kiss, and um, that was hurtful. Why did they do that? Yeah, they had They gave you no opening. They were like a sequel in High School Musical. They're like, well, maybe we'll kiss

next year, you know. Like but you're right, like with the dynamic between I mean kind of separating it, separating the queer read from it, just like the dynamic between Kelly and Jennifer is this very like Jennifer's higher ranking and she's this like militant, like you maggot, you suck. I hate you, and I'm gonna rip your blanket apart, and just like all this stuff, but ripping your blanket the same thing happens in Full Metal Jacket too, I'm

pretty sure. But she but then they become friends, as the movie wants you to think that it's just a platonic friendship, but like, this is something we see in a lot of like straight romantic relationships in movies as well, where it starts out as this either antagonistic or like a man is stalking a woman or a man is abusive to a woman, and then suddenly or gradually they are in love with each other, and it feels like it's just like a weird trope and this exists with

like in other movies of um like female friendships where or something that starts out as a very antagonistic female relationship, UM that kind of grows over time, and I don't again, I'm always like trying to figure out, like, what is the use of this or what's the purpose or what

are you trying to say with all of this. Yeah, like that enemies to lovers trope, but I think a lot of times it can be harmful in the grand scheme of things because they never when they get to the point of being friends, right, they never really discussed the previous abuse. They don't believe in rectifying that situation.

It's just like, oh, we're friends now, so we're not going to talk about, you know, how you made me feel like crap, or how you pushed me in the dirt, ripping my blanket, did X, Y and Z just to get back at me? And I think that that's not as cute as people seem to believe when they're like praising them, Like, I feel like there should be a an aspect to these stories where it's like, I'm also going to apologize for my previous and that would be

much more healthy than just what they do now. She's just like I'm moving to Europe by hopefully you get someone that you get to abuse later too. And it also it ties into the like women in competition trope as well, where again the story has you believe that they're kind of competing for the affection of this brad guy because there's that scene where they're like they both spot him across the quad and then they like speedwalk over to him to like try to like make a

good impression on him. So and then just like on top of that again just like the antagonistic female relationship, and it's for no other reason than like Jennifer is just like mean and it's like I don't I can't really make sense of it, but it happens a lot in both like children's media and like rom coms, where it's just like the two people, the two leads of this movie, they hate each other. Why because reasons right,

because plot devices like it is. It's it's funny because even as a person who enjoys a lot of enemies to lovers fan fit, I only ever enjoy the ones where they like where there's an apology like that's my wheelhouse. I'm I don't understand when it's like I slashed your tires, I keep your a car, I punched your mom in the face. But we're not gonna talk about any of that.

We're just gonna We're too busy kissing now, right. It is like what I mean, It's like, it's pretty clear that jenniferes Kelly a pretty huge apology before lead, and I feel like it is just kind of glazed over, like by the fact that she gave Kelly a compliment one time that it's like, oh, and all is forgiven, which obviously is not true or realistic, and it kind of like glazes over. A lot of what she was

doing was not like like I don't know. I mean, I guess I've never been to a military school, full disclosure. But in theory, you cannot just target a single person and harass them and destroy their stuff relentlessly, um and then be like it's because I had a crash, like because I thought she was cute. Like no, I think her parents also owe her. Kelly's parents also owe her

an apology. I'm like dead set on that because you just uprooted her and like you didn't ask for her opinion, And I think it's a larger ultural issue where we don't talk to children about what they want and need because we think that because we're parents, we have the ultimate day. But you know, that's maybe a little too too deep for the conversation. But I thought about it.

I'm like, you really just changed her life forced to attend to military school because I guess i'mline classes were an option, and then you were think you were like, you're gonna enjoy it, Like I just I don't know. I think that they need to apology to her and then also promised the baby that comes that the baby doesn't have to go to military school. Yes, the baby

that may or may not be loved by its mother. Um. Yeah, it's such a drastic change that Kelly has to It's like one thing if like a family has to move, or like there's a remarriage, and like things get slightly uprooted. But to take her from an arts school in New York City to a rigid Millet Harry industrial complex education that has to be pretty traumatic. But the movie doesn't do that much to explore that. Really. Um, I guess the last thing I wanted to talk about in relation

to the queer subtext slash text is Brad. So, what's his name? Sean Ashmore, who I guess has a twin. Didn't know until I did some research for the movie. Um, yeah, he was a twin who was in I think Aaron Ashmore, who is in Veronica Mars the whole thing. Anyway, Brad is like the hottest boy in school all the movie. Again, the movie wants you to think that all the girls

love him, and it's like, um okay. But there's a really confusing aspect to the movie where Carlos says something to Kelly towards the beginning that makes you think that Jennifer and Brad are dating, but then Jennifer has to try to get him interested in her again, Like I don't think, like are they dating or that she just have a crush on hitting they were that I my read was that they were not like officially, at least

not in like in an an official way. Otherwise Brad is a terrible that's the thing, because like, I'm still a little unclear, but I think the movie's idea is that they are dating because they like go to the dance together. Carla says, Oh, that's Jennifer's man, so he's off limits to all the other girls, like all this

stuff that makes you think that they're like together. But he treats Jennifer so horribly, like ignores her, like he's like, I don't really care like what you have to say, and he laughs at her when she gets mud, like when Kelly gets muddle over her dress. If I saw my boyfriend spitting on another girl's shoe, I would be like, excuse you, there's an agreement that you do not sp it on another girl's shoe, like even the even the hat thing. When she had to show her hair, he

was like, you have to show, it's regulation. He humiliates her publicly in the little um Cadet hearing I'm upset by this, Like, oh, Brad, all the girls like Bred, but Bred even like girls is the question I might not even like girls. It was like, I don't I want to go home. He was like, I didn't ask for this. Talk about characters we know nothing about, like Brad, You're just like, what could possibly be going on with Brad? We don't know, We'll never know, Like his background is

unclear to us. He seems pretty mediocre at what he does, like if he really is canonically supposed to be Jennifer's boyfriend who likes her. He's doing He's a mean, terrible, neglectful boyfriend. Truly. I guess at least I appreciated the at that storyline just kind of tapers off and doesn't come into anything. And it's not as though, like I had a feeling because I hadn't seen this before and I didn't know how the story was going to go.

What I thought was going to happen was that they had really wedge in a love story between Kelly and Brad, where you know, Brad is dating Jennifer at first, but then he starts to see how mean she is, and then he starts to like Kelly because she's nice and quirky and fun. And so the fact that the movie doesn't go in that direction and what was being set up there sort of doesn't pay off at all. I do appreciate that, because this feels like a movie where

a hetero romantic subplot was not necessary. I think that was too because of the age difference at the time of me, I think he was much older than he three duffs. They probably didn't true oh like in real life. Okay, yeah, that makes sense because Hilary Duff was like fourteen on this movie was shot, which you for it because she's such a talented actress, but she was quite young. And then I think, um, Chrissy Carlson Romano is seventeen in

this movie. Everyone is children, but I think isn't Shawanna Ashmore he was like in his early twenties. Is not children? Yeah, And the Gloria wasn't either I or something. She's everything to me. So it's like my wife just checking it on her. But it's I think that that's part of it too, where she's like they were like, bro, we can't have this child and this grown man like kids on Disney Channel. But I wasn't. I wasn't upset by that at all because it felt like it was forced.

Like the most that I remember Brad say in the movie, even seconds after watching it, is you make me smile connect Kelly, Like I don't remember anything else he says.

So I'm like, well that was weak anyway, Like it was like maybe the person who wrote it felt like they needed to be a love interest, but also realized while they were writing it that the more interesting relationship was between the relationships, and like all of the the girls and not the men, Like the men seemed to be props that they were, which I think is revolutionary for the time being. Quick Yeah, no, these guys are just props, like they're here for this and this and this,

but we're not really here for them. So it was like that was nice. We appreciate that. Yeah, I agree, Yeah, Kia. Any other thoughts, I mean, I think I covered I think I covered off. This was just like the most life affirming discussion. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was tons of fun. And where can people follow you? Where can people check out your stuff? Etcetera. Yeah, um, I for first of all, thank you for having me.

That was really genuinely so much fun. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Kia k e A h Underscore Maria m A I A. I have a website Kia brown dot com and a Facebook page at the Kia Brown, so I'm in all those spaces. And then um, you can buy my book to pretty One available now for purchase, and then in fall of I have a picture book coming out called Sam's Super Seats for the Children via cople of Books. So all those good things I can keep you updated with, Yes and

come back on the show another time. Bring your favorite movie and we'll get us. Oh no, I'm definitely taking you up on that. Yeah. Yeah, happy to have you any time. Thank you both. Yeah, thanks again so much, Kia for for joining us. Um, we have a few more things we want to discuss. UM. I think another major thing to talk about is the like very pro military propaganda message that this movie is. Yeah, so I, um, I can speak to this a little bit about some

of the culture that has portrayed here. Uh, because as I think I brought it up on the Matrian before and as you know, Caitlin I almost married into the military rather young, and this whole like set up of the I don't know, like this is. I think it's a little unusual because it's directed mainly at teen girls. Um, and I think it is far more common and this

is pointed and gendered in itself. But um, for this kind of propaganda to be angled at young male identifying children is like, okay, you need you know, how what is the peak of masculinity, what is the peak of you know, discipline? And and so I feel like the vast majority of you know, like military movies about young people are feature and are targeted at boys, so this is I think the rare exception that we see young women doing it. I don't. Unfortunately, it's still the fucking

military industrial complex that there is really no downside. I think my main issue is there is no real downside to this like situation for Kelly. It sort of implies, I think in a slightly disingenuous way that like there was room for individualism in the military, and like you can meet people in the middle our students can become soldiers, And it just feels a little I don't know, Like I will say, watching this movie as a kid did not make me want to go to military school. For

what it's worked. It's still and I'd be curious to hear what our listeners who saw it as as young people think. But it didn't make me want to go

to a military academy. But it did I think. I think that the takeaway you're supposed to get is that Kelly, while she is a like very original and individual person, which she hasn't really punished for, it does help her character every step of the way, But like her life was enriched for having learned the discipline of a military school and that she had made assumptions about the oppressiveness of the environment that was inherently wrong, which if you look at I mean, and I don't I don't want

this episode to take too dark a turn, so I will just say, you know, you can do your research on your own. But but the experience of any marginalized person in the military, it is just it's just a full on fallacy that military discipline and experience is a universal good. That's not to say that it hasn't served many well. And we're not trying to discredit going to a military school or joining the military as a life choice, like it's you know, were addicted to the troops, were

in love with the troops? Uh no, no, but that's your choice, your body, your choice. I mean, And it's like I, I don't know, I dated someone who was in the military for a very long time, and so you know, but the implication that it is a universal good for everyone, I mean, women are not treated particularly well in the military, and that's a huge understatement. And you can look at some recent news items for more

information on that. Um The subject of race in the military is not often brought up, and there's a huge historical erasure of non white soldiers. Uh, and and not to mention um being queer in the military, being trans in the military. There's there's endless stories and accounts about how the oppressive environment that is presented to us in this movie as something that will make you learn something about yourself and make you a better person for yourself

and for the people around you. You know, no negatives are really examined other than the fact that it's uncomfortable at first. I feel like that's as far as this movie goes of like whoa, this is weird, and like I don't like that, like I'm being yelled at. But and not It's not like I'm not expecting this d coom to like take on this serious like deep rooted misogyny of the amor in military. But maybe it should.

But it's it's it's too pro I feel like it's it's hard to disagree that it's pre way too pro So having seen this for the first time only days ago and had no idea what it was about at all based on what was being set up in like Act one, in the beginning of Act two, I had really different ideas about where the story was going to go because here's here's what kind of gets set up. So we meet Kelly at the arts school. She loves creative expression, She's very artistic. She's a free thinker. Uh,

and that's like the main thing about her character. Um. Then she's told that she has to go to this military school because her mom is making her uproot their entire lives for a man. More or less. Kelly is very reluctant about this, understandably. So then she gets to the military school. She sees what it's like, and she's like, I need to turn this into a kinder, gentler place. She says different lines of dialogue, like you know, we've

got brains, we're thinking people. She's challenging sort of the uniformity of the military ideology every step of the way, or not every swell, at least at the beginning. Um, she says, I'd really like to try and retain my individuality around here. She says, we may be in military school, but we still live in a democracy. She's talking about how she hates the uniformity, the rules, the khaki of it all. So for the first chunk of the movie, she's talking about how she wants to change this place.

So I thought where the story was going is that she was going to bring her like creative energy and change everyone's mind about how the school should be run. And instead she gets more and more indoctrinated into this military lifestyle and ideology and basically loses her sense of identity and be comes just another like military drone and

I'm like, what the fuck? And it feels very like early two thousand, I mean, and this comes up in every d calm discussion basically very like early two thousand's girl power feminism, where it's like, oh, I can be in the military, but I'm going to wear a scarf, so girl power and you're like, no, Kelly, no there.

I think it is interesting where it's like the I think it's very clever and creative the way that the ideals of the military are presented to Kelly, because some of it sounds good to the point where I agree

with it. Where it's like, you know, the um and I think this is communicated through Carla, where Carla basically says to Kelly, like, it's not just about you, it's also about you know, serving the interests of the group, and like we help each other and we're a community, and like stuff that is like, Okay, I agree with this, but but leaving out you know, it's it's misrepresenting biomission what what you know, what they're actually being prepared and

groomed to do doesn't great or the politics of which you know, like this is this movie was made during the first Bush administration. This movie came out six months after nine eleven. Like the context for what is going on here is very intentionally, I feel not stated. I also was wondering they I was wondering if they were going to say the name of the president because they asked twice. We're like, who who is in charge of

the military the president of the United States? Like because no one was wanting to say George W. Bush at this time or now? Really so yeah, it is. It is a slice of propaganda that I find kind. I mean, I guess I will say it is not the worst. It wasn't as bad as it could have been. But

I don't know. I mean, where I feel like the setting of this works is in like this setting really works for the queer reading we were discussing where, you know, as the symbolism of like someone trying to assert their individuality and feel confident in themselves in a very oppressive judge environment. I feel like it works really well for that setup. But in terms of just kind of the flat read of pro military and like the commandant is probably a really nice guy and you know, like all

this stuff, Um yeah it's military propaganda. Uh, that's like that. I was like blown away with how much that ends up being a part because again the movie, I feel like the movie is setting you up for Kelly being the one to come in and disrupt the rigidity and just like fluence changed, or at least I thought, I mean at least because I honestly forgot how this movie ended.

I forgot about the dad off the cliff, like just all this not memorable plot points, but like the fact that she truly affects zero changed at this school nothing and instead she she gets brainwashed. She's like this thing that I thought was really ridiculous of throwing rifles around is actually my new favorite hobby. And she even like in the beginning of the movie, she she's Kelly is a comedic genius. She makes a bunch of really funny jokes. For example, I wrote down a couple of my favorites.

She's like up on a ledge during the course, and she's like, she's like, I hate heights. I'm even hoping to not get too tall. Hilarious. Um, she says, my mom and Joe met at a wedding and they liked it so much they decided to have one of their own.

She's making she's cracking jokes constantly, and then over the course of the movie, as she's getting again like more indoctrinated into this military ideology, she like, I feel like just like starts to lose her personality, her like vibrant, bubbly, like jokey, creative self, and she like she adopts that like military speech that they're expected to speak in where she's like a permission to speak this cadet has an idea like all that she doesn't lose it entirely, but like,

which is I would it would have been so scary if we'd like just lost Hillary Duff in the process of it. But yeah, I mean it is kind of weird for a movie that seems to be at least attempting to challenge like, oh, the military doesn't you know, like beat the personality out of you, But like there is something there is a net loss in her and I feel like that is framed as a good thing. I mean, it's like a good thing that I don't know.

I mean, it's Cadet Kelly, I don't know, it's you take Cadet Kelly out of candet sicle, what's the movie? But but it is military propaganda, and we recognize that. Yes, there's also a scene where she's in a classroom, and we don't get many of these scenes when she's like actually learning stuff that like a military school would teach you, but there is The rear is good. Yes, Okay, the

language used here is really funny. But so the teacher is talking about the Korean War and he's describing this thing and it feels so hilariously defensive where he's like, um, we didn't retreat. That thing wasn't a retreat. It was an advance to the rear. But it was actually super awesome that we did that because it was like really on purpose and not at all a failure. It was actually a brilliant strategy. And it's like, this is what

you're teaching children, Like, are you kidding me? Well, I mean every American school teaches bullshit revisionist history, but this was funny. This was funny because it also wasn't very well written. Uh it was like, actually it was we were It was also it was good and you're like all right, and then Kelly's like vo is like I didn't realize that there was so many lessons from the

military they were applicable to my own life. My favorite, my favorite Hillary Duff voiceover is when she first gets there and then it's like it's almost like a Lizzie McGuire cut away, but there's no cutaway. It's just uh like static shot on on Hillary Duff and it says, Hello, where can I get a Cafe mocha? You're just like, okay, Hillary Duff, relaxed. I was so confused by that because I thought she was saying it out loud. It was

like diagetic dialogue. But it's but then it's like you see her lips not moving, and I was like, oh, I guess this is voice over. It was it was that was that was right, and but it's weird. I feel like that was almost a weird reference to Lizzie McGuire because there's cutaways in that show, but it cuts away to a cartoon that is her inner monologue, but in this one it doesn't cut well, is that what how happens? And I've never seen Lizzie McGuire, so I

have I don't understand how it works. So the end, one of the writers and this also had written on Lizzie McGuire, I believe, Yeah. So so they like will cut away to a cartoon Lizzie and she'll say like a cute comment, and it'll cut back to live action Lizzy, and this movie, I think, attempts to do that, but it's not an episode of Lizzie McGuire, so you're not cutting away to a cartoon. So it's just often a static shot at Hillary Duff's not speaking face, but you

hear her voice and you're just like, what is this? Uh? I have? Okay? So I wanted to shout out one of the writers of this movie. She has come up on this show before. Kind of an iconic writer of many generations. Gail parent Co wrote this movie. Um, we've talked about her. I forget why we've talked about her before, but she she has written a lot of really really

famous UM shows targeted at women. Specifically, she read on the Carol Burnett Show, she wrote on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, she wrote on The Golden Girls, she wrote on Road, she wrote on and then she also wrote this movie. She wrote Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen. Uh. She's written a lot of like really iconic female centered stories,

so I was thrilled to see. I didn't know that she had had a hand in Cadet Kelly, but you have to assume that she you know, a lot of the very strong bonds between women which we've discussed at this point um can be attributed to her, and so I wanted to shout her out. The other writer of this movie, his name is Michael Walsh, and he seems to have been a journalist and then wrote this movie.

I don't know, uh shrug, shrug. And then sorry, Larry Shaw is the director, and so he had directed episodes of the McGuire I see, So that's kind of I mean, I guess that's all you really need for a background. Although you said earlier there was a female editor, there was.

It seems like I'm going to just give the majority of the credit for the writing of this movie to Gail Parents and then say Michael Walsh was brought in to write the Dad's I don't know, um, but I was happy to see that this movie was written by women. I think that that is something that you see in d coms more frequently too, is that, um, you see women writing stories for women and girls. Um again, because

d com is more of an experimental environment. And also, uh, you don't need to pay the employees as much, so I'm sure that Disney is always thrilled to pay uh non male identifying people way less. So there's that. But yeah, um, well, speaking of the dads, can we talk about the parents in their storylines in general? Because there's some really messy, wacky stuff going on here. We already talked about We

talked about the two dads in love. We talked about the two dads, and then we talked about the Gregnancy. So the mom I mean, and I want to be careful in the way we've talked about it a little bit already. But it's like, like we were saying earlier, we don't want to like disrespect the choice to be a homemaker and to want to be uh stay at home parents, spouse whatever it is, like, definitely, it just the way it's framed in this movie is very abrupt

and kind of confusing. And I don't know, like, as someone who was very hesitant and resistant to be a military spouse, this was what I was afraid of where and and and again like if you were a military spouse yourself, like we would love to hear from you and hear like is Cannet Kelly's mom at all reflective

of your experience or was it just bad writing? But but there is certainly an expectation, or at least a trope that you have to drop everything in your life and commit yourself to your spouse's career, which is very much what happens in this movie. We don't really have and I think my issue with it is we don't have any idea really how she feels about it or like what really was she doing before? And why did she choose to leave this life outside of just relationship?

Like you have to imagine if she's being presented to us as this like cool single mom prior to this, like what is she leaving behind? What was her life before this? And like you just don't know and so and and then you see her struggling to adjust to

her new life. Demonstrated how to put on an apron like and and so it seems like she is struggling, but it's just kind of presented as like funny, and so I just I don't know, it just ended up kind of making me feel like confused and sad for her in a way that it was just like, you know, just as much as Kelly her life has been completely uprooted, it seems like she doesn't even leave that house that they're living in, so she doesn't really have a support

system around her. Like it would have been nice to see, like maybe she becomes because like a very common thing is like a military wives or military spouses will hang out together and like there's a support network there, and it would have been cool to like even see that referenced in passing that she had found a community that she wasn't just like left alone with the stove all day trying to learn how to make turkey and that's her journey, and the movie is she gets pregnant and

she learned how to cook turkey. Like I just don't love that, and I wish that since this movie does seem to have a mission to reflect the American military experience, which it doesn't obviously. I mean, I just I just felt like she was really left, to quote Bradley Cooper by the wayside in this plot, and she no, especially because like the relationship that Kelly has with both of her father figures end up being way more important to the story than the relationship with her mother, And I

don't understand why that is. I don't know why that choice was made because with similar to Kelly, her mother is also having to adjust to this like military lifestyle. So why couldn't they like why why couldn't we see them bond over that further or like discuss this new lifestyle that they're having to adjust to, and and instead we get this like weird like dad fell off a cliff and I have to teach my stepdad how to be a father. And it's like, why is that your responsibility? Why?

Like why did she marry this? Like why did Kelly's mom marry a guy who like has no emotional intelligence whatsoever? Like well, and I gotta be honest, I don't really give a ship about I mean, I know he's important to the plot theoretically because he has to eventually be flung off a cliff, but I don't care about the original, Like I don't the original that I don't care about Kelly's biological dad. And I also don't think he's as good a parent as the movie makes it a mission

to me. I mean, and this is like inherent to not just decom but children's media in general, of like mom does the mean thing, dad does the fun thing. Because what like, like we discussed a million times, um, it's a societal expectation of female parents to do the majority of the parenting, and therefore they're kind of demonized

because that means they're doing most of the discipline. Anyways, this movie is kind of no exception where Kelly his dad is like fun and goofy and they're both klutzy and they both trip a lot, and you're like yeah and uh, but already it's like he does not put up a fight for Kelly to not have to go to military school. He prioritizes his career above his daughter. He's busy going off to um Chad and Sudan and mean Mar and Thailand, which he says in an accent

as he's like describing the countries he's going to. He's like speaking in some nondescript accent and what it's just like that whatever you're doing, so you're being racist. Yes he is. He's being raised as also it's very clear that the places he's going are just sound stages in Burbank in any case, like yeah, it's and so he like prioritizes his career above her. He does a racist

accent in the first scene he appears in. He just kind of shows up when he feels like it, and then Kelly is so thrilled, and then it's presented as if like, oh, this is how like Ree Cole is going to learn how to be a father, and you're like, this is actually really not an example that you would necessarily want, Like he has a better personality than Gary Cole, but I feel like that is something that happens with

like manipulative, neglectful parents all the time. Where I was actually kind of feeling for Gary Cole in that scene because he is emotionally stunted deeply, but at least he is present and he is you know, he can be counted upon in Kelly's life, whereas her dad is just like he's just not around, he's just off wherever. So I'm anti Kelly's fun dad. I am also like you said, like I am anti the dad's taking up all the

parental real estate. I mean, fortunately, most of the movie is truly like Kelly, Jennifer, Carla all having crushes on each other, all like falling in love. But but yeah, like when we zoom out, it usually is the dad. I guess I sort of appreciate Gary Cole's journey and this of like being able to appreciate his stepdaughter's individualism, but it just takes up too much space. I don't know, Like it's just ultimately I'm kind of like, what is

your relationship? I would have loved to see his relationship with with his wife with Kelly's mom a little more, because, like you, I don't understand what brings them together, because we just don't really know enough about her to know what about him is appealing to her. We know a

lot about him. Also, he should be constantly like thanking her and kissing her feet for being like, oh my god, thank you so much for this huge compromise that you and Kelly made by like uprooting your successful life in New York City to live with me while I'm a commandant at this school. Like again, the whole compromises that these women make the just for Gary Cole with a

mustache and spawn. Um. Yeah, it's it's it's not ideal, and yeah there's like Kelly and her mother both need to I mean, we talked about this already, but they have to make too many compromises. Yes. The last thing I want to mention is the Titanic reference Hello in the song that happens both at the very beginning of the movie, during the dance routine that Kelly and Amanda are doing at the art school, and then again at the end um during the weirdly edited um dance routine

at the gun recital. I do think, not before before we come for the editor, I do think that the movie was pretty significantly re edited for Disney plus my recollection, and I think he a referenced this a little bit. Was that the music at the end was swapped out. I think it was originally a different song, which is why the editing kind of looks funky. I think it was like that editing was SYNCD up to a different song. Maybe Disney lost the rights to but sound off in

the comments if you agree. I sort of remember, I don't remember that opening song being in it twice. I think that they just kind of piped it in at the end, because they still had the rights. They're just like, oh we yeah, we have this one. Um. But in any case, the lyrics, which I can't make sense of, are as follows. I wear a disguise. I'm just your average Jane. The super doesn't stand for model, but that doesn't mean I'm plain. If all you see is how I look, you miss the super chick within and I

christen you Titanic, underestimate and swim. I don't know what that means, but I was like, there's a Titanic. If you don't understand what an amazingly empowered woman I am, you're going to drown around the Titanic. I think that that's what it's saying. I don't agree with this message. I don't endorse that lyric, but I do love a good Titanic shout out yes, um. Well, anyway, as far as Kelly goes, I think that was all I had.

Did you have anything else? No? No, I uh, we should figure out if this movie passes the Bactel test. It does, it's super does. It's very often to female identifying characters with names talking about the military, talking about the famously genderless rightfuls and various things. Yes, this movie passes quite a bit, and it is also like I mean, it passes between Kelly and Carla, it passes between Kelly and Gloria, it passes between Kelly and Jennifer. Mom passes

a bunch. But what would we rate it on our neckles scale? This is kind of challenging if you look at it from the standpoint of the movie focusing on the relationships between several female characters and how you have a lot of budding friendships or a lot of budding romances depending on how you look at it. The fact that it doesn't wedge in a romance with Brad. But

you know, these are reasons to like this movie. It would be nice to have a I don't know exactly what the intentions of the writers were, but either way it would have been it would be nice to have a similar movie where different characters actually identify themselves as queer, and then we could have seen actual queer visibility on screen in a movie intended for young people, like think how cool it would be if you know this was a story about a bunch of queer kids in military school,

you know, a place where queerness I have to imagine is not tolerated. But you know, like if a bunch of queer kids find each other and band together and support each other and maybe kiss. Sometimes I feel like there's a subplot to that effect in UM that show sex Education. Anyway, I need to finish watching it. But the point is, this is a dcon This is a Disney movie, and you know, Disney was never going to do that in two thousand two or in present day.

So even you know, years after this, we've referenced that Kenny Ortega interview where Kenny Ortega, a queer director, was not allowed to have a queer character in high school musical. So it's like this, you know, is certainly not a new trend, but it is I feel like, yeah, certainly the closest like I mean, according to the third closest we have, um queer d com Yes. Um. So that aspect of the movie is what I really latched onto.

The other very important part of the movie, which is the very pro military propaganda message that it is perpetuating, is not something I appreciate, Like, you know, I mean, like again, if you want to join the military, that's your choice, but I would like in a lot of like military ideology to police ideology. It's a lot of the same horribly racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, all the horrible things.

It's it's basically one and the same to me, So I am going to take a very brave anti familiaritary industrial complex attacked in the comments. Um So, the fact that this movie is like again the story being that like the more Kelly is in military school, the less her individuality and personality remains intact, is um scary and upsetting. But like the movie framing that is like, it's actually awesome that she finally has structure, and it's like it's not as though she was a bad kid before. She

wasn't misbehaving, she was on the structure. And the words structure, I mean, I feel like that's just kind of like a little military dog whistle for like having the personality beat out of you. There's a difference between structure and military structure. Yes, yes, yes, yes, so all of that, Oh gosh, I don't know. With all of that in mind, I think I'm going to have to give it like two wow, okay, or maybe less. Why what were you

going to give it? And then I'll copy you. I'm kidding I'm not going to tell you you pick yours, all right, I'll give it to Well. There's also I mean, between like Carla and Gloria, you do have a few women of color in the movie, but they are also they are not given nearly as much narrative significance or focus as the two white women leads of Kelly and Jennifer. Um, so we don't love that. Um, I'm gonna go down to one and a half. I enjoy this movie. I don't.

It's not that I hate this movie. I actually like had a fun time watching it. But there's a lot of like very early two thousand's Disney, like Disney has its stink all over it. I don't know. It's one and a half. And I'll give both of those nipples to the dance off that happens in the quad. Uh. This is I think our most significant deviation in a while.

I'm gonna go with three um because I absolutely I need to dock it for being early two thousands girl power, feminism, military propaganda, which, while I completely disagree with it, I mean you've gotta give it points for being that specific of the the boxes they're trying to check in the way that this movie is being written. Um, I do think, like I I obviously I am not pro military industrial complex.

I I do think that it is of muddled, not good attempt to try to represent military families on screen, because while I am not pro military, I do think, you know, it's like kids who are in military families also deserves some representation on screen. What I don't like is that the way that it's represented is so uncritical of the military and so pro like, well, whatever your soldier parent does is the right thing, and you you

must follow. And it's just deeply uncritical. So it's like representation you don't usually see, but it's so unchallenging that I feel like it ends up kind of being moot. Yeah, I I would love to see, uh, you know, a d coom about a military family's head maybe begins to disagree with the military, maybe it has starts to have,

you know, question it. Because for all the reasons we've discussed of how deeply prejudiced and um violent the military be towards people who do not conform to their ideal, which is uh sis white men says hat white men super soldier type, then you're you're going to be punished, and this movie frames that punishment as a character building thing and not a an abused tactic meant to beat

the personality out of you. So I do not like that, however, Uh but I do like, is I really really really like Kelly um and she really spoke to me as a kid just as her personality and well, I do agree that her personality is diminished by having gone to a military school. This movie didn't make me want to

go to a military school. It made me want to be Kelly and maybe kiss a girl like those were the things that I took away from this movie as a kid, and so those I mean, I might be ranking it too high for nostalgia points, but I do think that, um, this is like as close to queer representation in a deacon that you could get, And in two thousand and two, that was just not something that you were really getting anywhere else in children's media. So

even this like coded attempt to to show something. I mean, clearly it spoke to a lot of young people because we're still talking about it, and you know, Kia still has a lot of love for it, and I I mean, I like that there are a number of you know, like could be richer, but fairly rich relationships between the

girls that attend the school. I do have an issue with I think that it is kind of a classic slight to a black character to not make their home life or their background really plot relevant or specific enough, and so I will dock it for that. Maybe I'm giving it a two point seven five, But either way, I think that Cadet Kelly does so much that a

lot of children's media wasn't even attempting to do. And so even though it flops in some regards, I appreciate the queer reading of this movie, which is, like we were saying, it feels basically like text on a rewatch um. I love Kelly, I feel to have for her mom, and the military industrial complex is scary, and I like to think that they both end up getting out of

the military and starting a small gardening business together. So I'm gonna give it two point seven five, and I'll give one nipple to Carla and one nipple to Gloria, and my other point seven five nipple to the Greg, the baby Greg who was born later, baby Greg who may who will probably be loved by I mean, baby Greg's parents just when she's like, I'm sure I'll love this baby too. I don't know, I know. I was just like, she needs to get some time off, like

this is not okay. Um so yeah, so that's good, Kelly. Sorry, there's literally a military plane flying over my house. Well, so, thank you again so much to our special guest, Kia Brown. Make sure to check out her book, make sure to follow her on social media. She's awesome, and she'll be back for a main episode at some point, so tune in for that. And um yeah, thanks for listening, matrons, thanks for your support. Hey,