Barb and Star Go to Vista Del Mar with Kate Willet

pant for our generation that will qualifies cool lots? Or is that just kind of timeless across generations? Do you remember when gauchos were a big thing among vaguely there, I remember like Capri's was like I think that's the first that's the first distinct pant that I besides like shorts that I remember being like, oh and like middle school, like we would wear capris once it became March. Sure, right,

it might be. I mean gauchos were a thing for maybe like two years when I was like a sophomorish in college, so you might owner couchos. Describe these they're basically the same thing as cool Lots, just with a different name. They look very comfortable now that I'm like older. I'm five years old now and like these pants, Like I understand the appeal of cool. I used to make fun of my mom's pants constantly, but it turns out that they were she was She was right. I was wrong.

I was wearing like low rise jeans and had a death wish. You know. So, this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But what is that? Well, sometimes Himes, it's when a woman named Barbe and another woman named Star talk to each other about something other than a

man for most of the movie. Um, but I guess more generally, our version of the test is when two people of any marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man and they have a you know, meaningful conversation, meaningful to the to the narrative. Yeah, and yeah, we're recovering Barb and Star go to Vista del mart today. I'm so excited to cover this movie, and we have an incredible guest with us. Oh my gosh, we sure do here. That was that was my Midwest attempt.

I literally I did, okay, we I did check with my my boyfriend's mom, who is a bona fide barbon star type. I was like, is this do you feel like seen by this? Do feel like made fun of by this? And she was like, this is my favorite movie. I love it so much. Like we gave her our rental code for it and she flipped it is it is Sarah from Racing Wisconsin approved And that's good enough for me. Hell yeah. Our guest, though, is a comedian. She has a new audiobook out called Dirtbag Anthropology. She's

the host of Reply Guys podcast. It's Kate Willett. Hello, We're so we're so happy to have you again. I cannot do this accent. We're so happy to have you. Yeah, oh thank you. I'm really looking. I don't know. This is like Tina Fains impression upstair, Palin, Yeah, yeah, so happy. Yeah, thank you for bringing us this movie. Oh had you not hear it? I felt like you had probably heard of it because the person who told me about this movie was Julia Claire, who I know is a solid

buddy of Jamie Loftus. I mean, yeah it was. It was on my radar, but I hadn't seen it until we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, me, neither. Actually, I was just like this sounds good. Yeah, oh yeah.

I was so excited for this movie to come because this this was like another movie that got pandemic, where it was shot like two years ago, and I remember seeing trailers for it like back when you could still be in movie theaters, and and because I think it was supposed to be like a summer movie last year, and I was like, oh my god, that that looks so good. I haven't seen Kristin Wig do something like truly goofy and fun and so long. So we we rented it the day it came out. It was awesome.

It was great. I love it, especially after Christian Wig. I mean no, I we got a lot of requests for Wonder Woman, and then we both watched it and we were like, I don't I just felt nothing, and I felt angry. I was like mad at how bad I thought that movie was. And I was like, yeah, I mean, maybe we'll cover it eventually, but I'm like it is not a priority for me because that movie Stunt.

I heard it was really bad. It wasn't great, and it was also like I don't know, it's always like extra frustrating when it's like someone that you know, like I don't know, Christian Wig plays like the Big Bad in that movie, and it's just like she's boring in it. I'm like, how did you make her boring? Like that's a that's a you problem, Patty Jenkins. Sorry, remember when she plays a weird character and mother exclamation point? Oh I god, I try not to think about mother exclamation point,

but that is true. And she's also I mean, she went through We've talked about this, like I think in our Crazy Stupid Love episode where it's like when the like super successful comedian goes through like a phase of movies that are all like very serious indies and some of them are good and some of them were like what, um, somebody had that phase. She's also, wasn't she in The Martian? Was she? I don't remember. Have I lost touch with reality? I don't know, it doesn't I don't remember that movie

very well. I'm pretty sure. And she's in her She's in a lot of like real slow birds. Yeah. Anyways, this movie is a movie I actually enjoy, like all the ones we just listed, right, Yeah, yeah, I I too. I mean, you know me, I love a romp and this movie is like the textbook definition of a romp. And out of ten on Caitlin's rampometer, the rampometer, I believe. Yes, I'm so sorry. Yeah, what a what? I wasn't sure

exactly what to expect. I was. I think I was picturing kind of like a Girl's Trip esque narrative in the sense that, like two people go on vacation and they have a vacation. I is not expecting there to be like an evil mastermind villain. I wasn't expecting an evil revenge plot about killer mosquitoes. Like, yeah, it was fun.

This was like it felt like it was one of those scripts where it just was like written in a state of like a very open mind of like what could we put in this movie, like Sky's the Limit, killer mosquitoes, an underground layer, you know, every south. It was just really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I guess I should just get into the recap and then we'll go from there, shall we. Oh yeah, and Kate feel free to jump in at any time. The recap is a safe space. Okay, So we open on a young

paper boy. This is Yo Yo. He is delivering newspapers around a neighborhood and then he enters the layer of Sharon Gordon Fisherman, whose name like I had to pull that from IMDb because I was not sure if we do. We hear her name, and then we call her share in a couple of times. But yeah, I just kept thinking of her as like bad Kristen Wig. Right, Yes, she is played by Kristen Wig. She's like a super

villain type. And she reveals plans to unleash a swarm of genetically engineered killer mosquitoes into an as yet undisclosed small town. Then we cut to Barb and Star. That's Annie Mamolo and Kristen Wig, respectively. They live in soft Rock, Nebraska. Soft Rock. I love that so much good. This movie does, like really reward reviewing as because I've never seen it three times. Uh, there's something new and fun in like the super specific details every time. Indeed, Yeah, they are

very stereotypical Western women in their forties types. They are best friends. They are also roommates, which I did not pick up on the first time. I watched it. Um, but they lived together and they share a bedroom, which is so funny, like Lucy and Ricky style. Yeah, thats like separate full sized beds. They work at a furniture store, which they get let go from because the whole chain

has closed seven months ago. Seven months ago. They also get kicked out of their talking club, which is funniest joke I've ever heard, and like full of like recognizable like great female character actors. There's so many good it was, Yeah, just wonderful. I love this Talckey club so much, like it's like a book club, but it's a talking club. No books. Yeah, booklet for women who I've never read

a book before. Watching Vanessa bearbe so extremely cruel to whoever was locked out of talking club is so good. I kept wondering who was like doing the voice of Gail, the woman who gets locked out. I forgot to look it up though. Also that um that the hot dog soup triggered my fight or flight reflex, because so, I mean it's like and I've seen I know that that's like poking fun at Midwestern food, some of which is genuinely baffling to me and very thick it's rich. A

lot of textra dishes out there. I honestly like would eat that soup though, Yeah, that is delicious, is the thing too, It just like looks like it's already been eaten. Y Yeah. Anyway, So Barb and Star are kind of down on their look at the moment, and they also realized that all the fun times that they used to have together were from years before, and they feel that they've lost their shimmer. So when their friend tells them about a vacation she just took to Vista del Mar, Florida,

they decide to take a trip together as well. Meanwhile, Sharon Gordon Fisherman gives one of her henchman Edgar played by Jamie Dornan uh a microchip which he will need to activate the receiver, which is going to attract all of the killer mosquitoes, which is confusing and also doesn't super matter if you don't fully write process the plot. It was very Black Mirror that element, you know. It was like kind of like Austin Powers meets Black Mirror.

I also loved the Jamie Dornan casting, like it was such a like watching it again last night, I was like, well, it's such a like because I feel like that's happen. I'm trying to think of other examples of like a guy who is mostly known for being hot all of a sudden, like you're like, oh wait, and he's pretty entertaining and he's trying so hard in this movie in a way that it like and I mean that is like a compliment where if he knew he was funny,

the performance wouldn't be like as good. I feel like he's performing as if he's like is this working, like full commitment, Like yeah, yeah. I feel like another example of that would be Um. One of the Chris is Chris Hemsworth in his role in The Ghostbusters when he's like this goofy guy. I vaguely remember that because we covered that movie, but I feel like it just it just left my body. When that's acceptable hot guy trying to be funny. Um, you know, it's hit or miss,

but sometimes it in. It worked with Jamie Dornan. It works because Yeah, the only thing I've ever seen him in was like the fifties Shades trilogy, and I was like, oh Jesus, I refused to watch those movies, but that is so funny that he's famous for is like being like the hitting guy and then no, he's like this like a you know, very gentle character who was obsessed with being in an official relationship. Yeah, that was my favorite part of the entire movies. It's so funny. Yeah.

I also I just just a quick Jamie dorn in fact, because I knew nothing about this man. I also detested the Fifty Shades movies and everyone's bad in those movies because the movies are bad. Um. But he started as a model, which I guess isn't super surprising. But there was a time in the early two thousands where he was known as the Golden Torso the New York Times.

So he's it's like, I don't know. I mean, we talked about women being objectified a lot, but yeah, he The New York Times declared him the Golden Torso okay, two thousand one, so you know, shout out to the Golden Torso. Good for him. I feel like, by the time you give a nickname involving the word torso, there's there's just no gray area with are you objectifying this person? You know what I mean? Like piece by piece literally right? But I love it. I'm thrilled that the Golden torso

got to like show his skills. This is his time. I mean talking about a shimmer like he is shimmering all over this movie. Cute accent too, that was my I. When I saw his picture, it was like, I'm not going to have a celebrity crush on him, But when I heard the accent, I was starting to feel more flexible on that point. He's Irish in real life, right, he is from Northern Ireland. And also I couldn't tell him. I was like, is he like trying to do because there in some scenes and like is he trying to

sound American right now? Like his accent is like all over the place. But I just don't care. I love it. He's the son of a gynecologist. Listen, I read his whole Wikipedia page. There are so many things I relate too about this guy. Already perfect poor so colleges, former model, I had the same life. Yeah, he's an everyman um so he has been given this like microchip or whatever which he will take to Vista del Mar and activate

because that's going to attract the killer mosquitoes. And also, like you mentioned, Kate Edgar is in love with Sharon and all he wants is to be an official couple with her, but it's clear that she is stringing him along and that she doesn't want to be an official couple with him. So then Barbin star fly to Vista del Mar. On the flight, they talk about an imaginary woman named Trish the whole flight tragically died, who tragically

died and turned into a water spirit. And I only mentioned that now because we've out a Chekhov's Trish happening. Um Goddess ex machina right right. And then there's this whole thing where they like, they go to the wrong hotel and it turns out there staying in a crummy motel. But then they managed to get a room in the nice hotel after all, and that's where Edgar is staying, and they meet him when they're all drinking at the hotel bar, and they end up hanging out with him

all night. They drink a bunch, they take drugs, They dance to a techno remix of My Heart Will Go On. And as soon as that's where I became convinced that, yeah, that's like because that's like thirty five minutes in, and like I liked, I was like this is a really funny movie, like up until that point, but as soon as I heard like Doo Doo, Doo doo, I was like, this movie is for me. Well, the music that I

loved in this was they had Richard Cheese in the movie. Yes, Richard Cheese is such a kind of classic gen X guy, you know what I mean. Like it felt like perfect to like their age, and you know, it was great. I remember like a boy in high school being like showing me Richard Cheese because his like uncle had showed him and being really blown away like Richard Cheese and the Mighty Bush was just like it. Yeah, I was. It was so nice to see him. I was like, wow,

like gen Z gets Richard Cheese. Now, good for them, Okay. So they danced to all this music together and then they spend the night together and Edgar leaves the next morning, but oh no, he's lost the micro chip which activates the mosquito thing or something or something. So Sharon has to call this like secret spy man who she knows

to come in and fix Edgar's mistake. Q Edgar singing a song which goes something along the lines of sea goes in the sin Can you hear my prayer and oh my god, it's the best part of the movie. I think it's great. Yeah, there's I don't know if this has been mentioned so far, but there are multiple musical numbers in this film. It's not a musical, but

it is music inclusive. Yeah, because there's that big that big number when they first got to the hotel and then they found out at the motel and the songs, and a number is exactly the right sort for it. It is a number. It is a number, a show stopper fifteen minutes then m rouge, but like like midwestern

Mulan rouge. It really is like so fun to see, like just see what people do if they have enough money to do what ever they think is funny, because then then just very much feels like what this movie is. It's like, Wow, we could actually get a budget to do what like the weirdest ship we can think of. Great. Um, So Edgar sings his song, which is my favorite part

of the movie. I listened to it on repeat this morning. Um. Meanwhile, Barb and Star are pretending to have forgotten all about Edgar from the night before, but they secretly both went

to see him again. So first, Barbe sneaks out to go talk to him, but then she realizes that her and Edgar aren't really meant to be and she values her friendship with Star more than a man, so she goes back to her in Star's room, but then Star goes out to meet up with Edgar has a very similar, if not identical, conversation to the one that Barbe and Edgar just had, But then he and Star have sex, which is a secret a Star keeps from Barbe. I do love that, do that? Like Barb is such a

like champion. She's like, I can't do this, like I need to respect my friend, and then Stars like, um, we can only fuck twice? Yeah I will, and they like, I feel like we skipped over. Did they also fucked each other in the three Zone? Because I thought that was a brave pie. It's like they had sex together in the first night and reference to sex and it was I thought that was kind of an interesting aspect of that. They portrayed it as kind of a no

big deal. Oh yeah, yeah, is so yeah that they move on immediately, Like if you left two pe, you would not know that they sucked each other. It never comes up again, really right. Yeah, they're just normalizing having three sons with your friends. Meanwhile, Sharon's associate, a spy by the name of Darley Bunkle played by Damon Wayne's Jr. Contacts Edgar to assist him. I love that. I love the scene where they're on the phone scene is my favorite. I think his first scene where it's like no, I

have to go. Oh, he's great. And then back at Sharon's lair, she explains her backstory to Yo Yo, which is that when she was young, her family moved to Vista del Mar, where she was bullied for her pale skin, and then after an incident which like utterly humiliated her, caused her father to suffer a heart attack and die and caused her mother to leave her, and she got launched onto a Disney Cruise ship out of a cannon. Uh. Sharon vowed to seek revenge on all of the residents

of Vista del Mar, hence this big revenge plot. As a child, she very much it's like full on Wednesday Adam's aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, I I have some things to say about all of that. I was curious if we're going to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get there. Meanwhile, Star sneaks off to spend more time with Edgar, and then while that's happening, Barb is doing a bunch of like fun stuff that she and Star

were supposed to do together. They both feel really bad about lying to each other, and then Barbe finds out about Star's love affair with Edgar, and Edgar is about to like call off the whole Mosquito plan because he's falling out of love with Sharon and in love with Star. But anyone who's in Kristen Wiggs body, he's right, well,

I feel like to be fair. That feels like what a lot of us do, like, you know, for me, it's not christ and Wiggs body, but it's like some unkempt man with Beard, you know, just like switch him out. He's got a type. He's got a type. But then Sharon convinces Edgar that Barb and Star are spies and that he needs to kill them. Meanwhile, Barbon Star confront each other about lying, but then Edgar comes in and

ties them up, and then Sharon abducts them. Alligators are about to eat them, but they managed to escape with the help of their cool lots, which if you're not familiar and you haven't seen the movie. First of all, go see the movie. But they're these like very flowy capri type pants that are like very skirt and shorts mixed together. Basically, I didn't know that that's what those were called until this movie. They go by many names. Maybe I don't know. I think I'm gonna buy some.

I know's I mean, they can truly save your life. Yeah, as we see in this movie. One of my favorite back told test passes of this movie was Kristin Winn telling the other Kristen Wig to jump off a cliff. Yeah, it's it was a very feminist moment of the film. It's incredible. So then they run off to stop the mosquito attack, but oh no, Sharon had already triggered the receiver to attract all the mosquitoes. So then they fight

with Sharon in the middle of the ocean. The mosquitoes attack Sharon and then Barb and Star are brought safely back to land by Trish, the water spirit lady who they had brought up on their flight, who is played by Reba McIntyre. And then Sharon shows back up with like all these mosquito bites, but then she learns the power of friendship and she becomes friends with all of the residents of Vista del Mar and then Barb and Star get their shimmer back and they ride a banana

boat together and that's the end of the movie. Love it. So let's take a quick break and then we will come back to discuss and we're back. We're back, Kevin, you brought this up during the recap, so I kind of just wanted to like touch on it at the top, the stuff with Sharon's back story doing because they're so I have so many um compliments to shower on this movie, so I think let's let's start with the stuff that um I guess. Yeah, so for me, And this is

something that we talked about pretty recently on our divincion. Okay, yes, we're going to say on the same page. Yes, yes, yes, so that was a Matreon episode. But what we brought up then and now is the trope of the evil

albino villain character. And while Sharon Gordon Fisherman doesn't specifically have albinism, because she has a made up condition called pigment tosh Tadia degenera hysterica white Skinneka, this condition seems to have pretty similar characteristics of albinism, and because she is the villain of this movie, I feel like we could pretty safely like put her in the category of this trope, which is obviously very harmful and its depiction

of people with albinism, portraying them as being villainous, untrustworthy, ill intentioned. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It is definitely a trope we see all all the time. I mean there's I think movies that weaponize this trope to varying degrees, and the Da Vinci Code and Barbon Star

are certainly very different weaponizations of this trope. But it's just like kind of stunningly lazy, given how thoughtful so many elements of the movie is, and it and it, and it just like does end up kind of coming off as a lazy, ablest choice that feels like it's fifteen years old, even though most of the movie, for we felt so modern, and I would be interested in

hearing what listeners think, particularly listeners with albinism. Well, I mean, even beyond that, it's also just like the trope of like the villain is the person who doesn't look like everyone you know, or the villain of somebody with some kind of medical condition, you know, it's kind of ablest. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, she's mothered in this particular way. And because she has such pale skin, she's got like pale eyes, she has

an extreme sensitivity to the sun. Yeah, it felt to me, even though again they don't identify it as albinism, I think it's yeah, definitely coded. Yeah, so I was very disappointed to see that in a movie that came out this year. You would think that we've you know, we've moved past that, but yeah, it turns out no, Yeah, yeah, I agree, And and it's especially frustrating in a movie that like avoid so many tropes that would have been

very easy in like a movie with this tone. Yeah, like mothering, your villain is always going to have connotations to it, and like, I mean, no one else in the movie is is mothered in that way. Yeah exactly. I was. Yeah, I was like put off by that. I still really like the movie, but I was like, oh, really, come up, Like why so that I didn't love um? The other thing that kind of I was like, oh really this is in the movie was there's there's a Morgan Freeman joke. Yeah, that was I was just like,

that's what year was this script written? Because yeah, I'm just like, did they not get the memo that he has a history of like harassing women on movies sets? Did did they not? I don't know. So yeah, I'm surprised to see that there. I wish it could have been any other old actor, you know, like and you would have had the same joke. I also felt like the I forgot that the child's name yo yo yo yo. Yeah,

that was kind of uh. I don't know that. There was definitely aspects of his depiction that felt like they

were heavily relying on stereotypes along those lines. I felt too that like there's a couple of moments in the movie where there's there's a music cue that sounds like kind of native flute and drumming, yeah, which like the Tommy Bahama stuff mostly, And I'm interested to hear what our native listeners think about that, but to me, it feels like just kind of like a weird and like appropriative thing to have in a movie with no native

people it. Yeah, so just yeah, just like lazy writing too, just not Yeah, I think he was supposed to be like some kind of shaman, but like of of what you know, it's just like the kind of general magical shaman guy. You know. It's also I didn't I don't know why I didn't realize on my first watch that that was literally Andy Garcia. But it's also he's not credited as Andy Garcia, is credited to Oh my God. So I think maybe that's why. Not to brag or anything,

but I did recognize him as Andy Garcia. I just have an eye for Andy. Um. Yeah, there, and and those aspects. I mean that the three things that we just touched on, it did feel like the elements because this very much feels like an SNL movie to me,

even though it isn't. And those moments kind of like paying the part of your brain that, like most SML movies do not hold up for reasons like this of like a huge plat point that is extremely homophobic, a huge plot point that is extremely racist that you know, most of those movies, even for fans of them, like they you can't really make much of an argument for large aspects of them. And I mean they're they're smaller

in this movie, but they're definitely still present. Yeah, right, I mean the movie is also like I mean, like all all four main characters are white people too. It's like, I mean, I get, like, you know, the whole thing is that they're from the Midwest and stuff, but yeah, that's not like what the whole Midwest is, you know. Yeah, the Midwest is like, I mean, not as diverse as other areas of the country, but it's not all white people.

And there were definitely like opportunities for there to be more diversity because it's like, I mean, even in Talking Club, I think the only person who isn't white is um Rose ab Do, who is one of my favorite character actors. Have been watching her since she was on Gilmore Girls. Okay, y, yeah, there aren't that many characters of color, and the ones who are present in the story are relegated to more like secondary or tertiary characters. So I was also honestly surprised.

I guess we're just going to get all our agreements out at the top. I was, honestly, this isn't even really a criticism. I was just surprised that this movie was directed by a guy. I like, it's such a movie centered on middle aged women that I was like that I just I didn't even realize, like realize until later on. I was like, oh, this is directed by a guy named Josh. Just would not have expected that in this case. Yeah, I mean directed by a guy. That's one thing, a guy named Josh. That's even an

escalation right there, you know that, that's twisting the knife. Yeah. Written though by Kristen Wig and Annie Mamlow, and the movie also has a number of producers who are women, including Jessica Elbaum, who founded Gloria Sanchez Productions, which is a production company that focuses on producing female driven comedy projects. Oh yeah, they also did book Smart Hustlers. Those are the good ones. Yeah right, yeah, so um, but I was similarly surprised that a man would have been hired

to direct this movie. So, you know, let's talk about the fun parts. Yeah, let's do it. I love that this is a movie about friendship between women. I love this is that this is a movie about women in there, like mid forties finding their shimmer because they feel like they're kind of just fading away and they want to rediscover themselves and like reignite their excitement for life. This is like a version of Eat, Pray Love that I enjoy. Yeah, it's not it's not so self serious. Obviously, you know,

this is a pretty small thing. But one of my favorite parts of this movie was the relationships self help books that the characters are reading, the Sharon's reading one and Edgar's reading one. And I think that the one that Edgar's reading is called something like how to feel like someone loves you even when they don't show it most of the time, and that Sharon's book is like how to convince someone you love them to get them

to do what you want. And I just, I don't know, that's very it's really small, but I think that that was like a funny takedown of that the whole self help industry, which is often you know, market into women in like a pretty sex ist way a lot of the time, you know, like versions of like hears how to be you know, more appealing to man or accommodate man or something in some way, And so I definitely thought it was funny that they got a dig in

at that. Yeah. Yeah. Similarly, I liked that there was kind of like a role reversal in terms of you see this man pining after the love and affection of this like evil mastermind woman. I feel like that's not something you see that much in terms of like especially like a hot former model, former Golden torso Jamie dorn Is. Yeah, he's unapologetically sentimental. Ongoing way, we're referring to his relationship aspirations as being an official couple, an official couple like

a fifteen year old. Yeah, but it's the kind of thing that like, you know, like women openly expressing a design are for you know, like commitment or sense of mentality is often portrayed. It's like, you know, there's, oh, there's something wrong with her, you know. And I thought that it was Yes, I agree that it was very fun role reversal in this movie. Yeah, especially because he

does he still respects her boundaries. He's always like, are you ready to maybe become an official couple yet, Like he's not like wearing her down or like hounding her or like just like being really obsessive. But I mean he's kind of obsessive, but he's not like he's still like doing this kind of from a distance. Yeah, he's anxious,

but he's not creepy, you know. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, And I liked that those are the aspects of Sharon's character that I really liked was like how I mean, it's like no one should be emotionally manipulative in a relationship, but it was a fun reversal to see, like and like you're saying Kate with with the self help books, and also just like in general, there are even though one of even though Star does end up in a relationship with Edgar, I felt like, especially for a movie

about middle aged women who are they're not mothers. They're like not the type of middle aged female character that you're kind of used to seeing, especially leading a movie. And they don't make any of the easy, like lazy choices that you would make with a character like that. They're not like pining for a husband, They're not like where are my children? Like it's just such a simple premise of like, well, I am middle aged and I want to figure myself out, and like I I feel

like I've lost touch with myself. And they're also they seem generally more concerned about how other women view them than really anyone else. They're worried about each other, they're worried about how the talking club perceives them, and it was just like a cool so I don't know, it's like you never see that. Yeah, And I just to kind of piggyback off that, Like, I thought it was cool that they were both on journeys of self actualization.

And then you see, you know, Barbe's character, her journey of self actualization is solo, it's involving like a lot of adventures, and stars journey is like a relationship journey. She's opening her heart to love and experiencing that vulnerability again.

And I felt like the film did not make any sort of value judgment about which of those is better, you know, and like that's good because I often feel like even feminism asked us to kind of you know, like either it's like independence it's good, or you know, a relationship is good, or you know, like and it's just it's like often presented as very like feminist versus not feminist, and in reality, most of us have both desires,

you know, not everyone. But um, yeah, it was just it was just cool to see the film kind of not like Barbe's journey. It's not a joke, it's not pathetic. You know. Uh, Star's journey is not weak. I just really liked that. Yeah. Yeah, and an element of Star's Journey.

I mean it's only mentioned in kind of one scene, but I like when I was watching it to prepare for for this episode, I especially appreciated it was like Star also talked about like her body image and like how she as she was getting older, she was feeling unlovable. She felt like she was never going to be loved again.

And then she says like the line is super goofy, but it was like it's where she's like, you saw my like folds and whole, you weren't bothered by any run away, and it's like it's a it's I don't know, it's my favorite kind of joke because it's funny, but it's not at her expense, and the response to it is not cruel. And he's just like, yeah, like Edgar

is such a good active listener. Um, and I like that, Like, I mean, it's not like harped on, but it is like referee instant away that felt like, I don't know, like genuine and funny. I liked it. Let's take another

quick break and then we'll come right back and we're back. Um. You mentioned this in the in the recap Kate, but the fact that they like they have that like steamy threesome together the first night that they meet Edgar, and it's clear that, like you know, the Barb and Star, we're doing sex things to each other, and that they do not make a deal of it at all in the aftermath, which like again is like that would have been like an easy slash lazy choice that a lot

of comedies have done. So I'm so glad that they did not do that in this movie. I'm thinking particularly of a scene in the movie Transplanes and Automobiles where Steve Martin and John Candy they have to sleep in the same bed and they wake up like spooning each other, and as soon as they realize that they are like embracing each other, they both dash out of bed and like are like, oh my god, gross. They didn't they didn't even have sex the way that like Bartman Start did,

but they just made physical counts. They just like touched each other and then yeah, and then but they're like flipping out that they even like we're hugging like holding each other. Yea. So yeah, I really liked that they just very normalized like a couple of friends like getting

freaky on vacation with each other. Yeah, and they don't like it's not a deal, but they don't not talk about it, Like they referenced the specific things they did together in bed and you know and fun, and just like they were talking about it the same way that they talk about their their other vacation adventures, you know,

nothing weird. Yeah, yeah, they acknowledged it happened, but like they're like, this isn't anything where like grossed out by, are ashamed of so yeah, they just they're just like and now we change the subject to seashells or whatever. Turtles turtles. Yeah. And I like how the way that they deal with conflict too felt really good because that's like another area where I feel like you could get you know, like a lesser writing team could get super lazy with how women are in conflict are so often

written in these kind of like broad tropes. But I liked it. I mean, I thought, like, you know it, they are on these solo journeys, and I feel like that I didn't even really register this the first time I watched it, but it's like, oh, that is a part of their journey, is like having to be less reliant on each other and like growing as individuals and not being so you know, codependent in some ways, but

also still having that friendship. And when they find out they've been lying to each other, I love that they can't lie like that being established at the beginning is so funny at talking club. Um, but you know it's like that they're obviously piste off at each other, but then they have these like two beautiful forgiveness scenes after the cool lots and again when they think that they're

going to die right before Trish rescues them. Yeah, it's so cute, and you know, I mean it's also like, um, they have there and this I think this is what you're also saying, Jamie. Like they have their fight, they do express like the full range of their anger and their sense of betrayal. But it's not it's not in

like this cat fight way. You know. It's like how real human beings engaged in serious conflicts when there's a portrayal of trust, right, which is cool because it happens in between all this like ridiculous ship where like the alligators. The alligators. I love the scene where right right before their fight, like they're tied together and they're like slowly escaping and Jamie Dornan just like doesn't notice because he's

talking about himself, and yeah, that's so funny. It's so good. Well, that's one of the things that I absolutely love about this movie, which is you get this like extremely goofy movie where I know, it's not just a goofy movie, it's an extremely goofy movie where women are the leads. Because like a lot of comedy movies where a woman is the lead or where women are the lead characters, they are often rom coms, and a lot of rom

coms are not actually very funny. There I said it, Like, this movie actually has jokes, and it's like a rare example of an absurdist comedy that is female driven, because most absurdist comedy, which I think is like my favorite subgenre of comedy, Like I love absurdism, they're so male dominated. Not a lot of room has been made for women in this sub genre, at least like not much in like in the mainstream. So I love that this is just like it's so silly. You get to see women

being very goo fee. A lot of very goofy silly things happen in the movie, and I was just eating it up. Yeah, I agree that another another thing that I liked about I don't know, the Barb, Star and Edgar triangle, like the their dynamics. I was like, Oh, there's like so much interesting stuff there because it's like it just other things that could have happened but then didn't. It's like we've talked about this before, but like Edgar

is never creepy. He's usually just listening and is maybe just like not the smartest person in the world, and it doesn't always pick up on other people's signals. And on top of that, like in that sequence where like Barb and Star basically go on the same sort of date with Edgar that they both like I don't know, like they just pursue him extremely directly, like without a hint of like insecurity or like they just show up like doing the splits, like let's hang out doing like

yoga poses outside his door. I loved that, Like it's just so funny. I really. I mean, first of all, I love that he's like nine or ten years younger than them, like Jamie Dornan is than Annie Mamlo and Kristen Wiggs. So again, you we talk about the age gap in Hollywood a lot where there's again just a tendency to have aging men and they're like female co stars will be like twenty five years younger than them, and it's rare to see like an older woman and

a younger man. So I appreciated that you have that just representation on screen. And they don't mention it either. They're not like, whoa cougar? You know? Right? Yeah? Right, yeah, it's just normalized. And then I really like when when Barb is talking to Edgar on their like little walk about around Vista del Mar and she's like, oh, you know what, actually, you've set me free, like our night together, Like that set me free. But that's all this was.

She like realizes that she just needed like this sex romp to like be the catalyst that gets her to realize that she like can go off and do fun stuff, but that she's not like pining after him, maybe the same way that like Kristin Weig is more interested in him romantically. But I like that Dong touched her heart right exactly does that does happen? Um? So I like that even though they're like connection between the three of them initiates in this sexual encounter for all of them

all at the same time. In this threesome, but that like, there isn't like a love triangle after that, you know, even though it does seem like they will continue to all three of them will be living together back in Soft Rock, Nebraska, which I love. Like that would honestly be the dream life. Like if I got to live with like a partner and my best friend was also there, wouldn't that be great? Yeah? I hope they don't change the layout of their house at all, and just Jamie

Dornants in Stars then but they still all share a room. Yeah, Oh my gosh. Yes, he joins the Talking Club. Oh he would. I feel like he'd be a hit there. Yeah, it's very something. I mean, the Golden Torso those ladies are going to gobble him up. He would let Phyllis talk about horses. God, those cutaways, they're great. Just like another thing that just made me laugh, The story of how Barbe's husband thought is so funny where he's like a Rhodeo star but he got trampled but it was

at a like a Black Friday sale. It's so good. There's so many And like you said, Jamie, every time you watch this movie, you like pick up on like subtle jokes that you didn't notice the first time. It's

just this movie is so funny. Yeah, I'm so glad to dig this, and I hope that I hope that it's like been successful enough that there will be, you know, other opportunities like this made for um, for other women and hopefully not a white women, you know, like and and sort of open the open the floodgates to movies like this because it is I mean, I guess that I can't say for sure whether it's like Bridesmaids is like v movie that Kristen Wig and any Mamola wanted

to make, but I do feel like there is this kind of tendency where it just takes women, even after they've been very successful, like way longer to be able to make like this is the thing I've always wanted to do if I could make anything, because Christen Wigg has been you know, she's been around for at least fifteen years, extremely successful, and it's like just this year that you see like her like ridiculous absurd art project come out, and I feel like, you know, that tends

to come much earlier for men. And yeah, just like it would be cool if if women and you know, all people who weren't young white guys got that got those same level of opportunities at the same pace, which is not true, you know. Yeah, yeah, I also think that I don't know if I recall correctly, but I feel like Kristen Wigg is from kind of like a normal background and was not a super rich person. I don't know. That could be wrong, but yeah, I know

that that is true. It feels like the people who are like sons and daughters of Hollywood are able to get those opportunities at an accelerated pace. Yeah. Yeah, I think that they're like Annie Mamma and Kristen Wigg are both from like pretty like standard middle class backgrounds um back when the middle class was the thing. And yeah, and they and they both became successful in their thirties and like just all, I mean that their career trajectories

are really cool. And I just I just from a sentimental point of like, that's so cool that like when best friends make a movie, I love it. It's very fun. Yeah. I also learned that Christen Maig had twins last year. Holy shit, that's amazing via a surrogate. She and her husband had twins. She's got tiny babies at her house. I just learned so much on scholarly Journal Wikipedia this week. Um, I don't have a lot of Yeah, I don't really have much else. I would just say, you know, watch

the movie. There's some things in it that field dated, uh, that I was disappointed to see. But for the most part, this is a romp. This is a very funny movie. The themes and in the kind of takeaways from it are again just like things that we don't get to see that much of. And I hope, yeah, that this movie kind of helps pave the way for more movies like it's to be made and again, yeah, just open up doors for just more diverse and inclusive movies. Again,

like specifically absurdist comedies. Let's see more like women driven absurdist comedies, women from all backgrounds, people of marginalized genders

from all backgrounds. We need more of it. Agree with actual budgets too, because you can tell this movie had like a budget ridiculous the production design with all of like the very like saturated colors and yeah, it's like I was looking at the poster and I was like, this was like reminiscent of like a Lisa Frank I used to have like yeah, yeah, but yeah, I didn't really have any anything else. No, I yeah, I UM,

I really enjoyed this movie. I agreed that it There are the elements of it that are dated are super frustrating because it seems at so many places to have conscientiously avoided dated tropes, and so there are moments where you're like, oh, these are you know, gen X white women who maybe should have consulted some people. Yeah, yeah, it's true because it was very highlighted because they did handel like, there was so much about it that felt

so original and fresh. You know that the parts of it that were dated or you can just clich you didn't really stand out like a sore thumb. But I still love this movie. Yeah. Yeah, it passes the backtal test obviously, Like except for when they're talking about Edgar.

Basically the entire time they're talking about all sorts of wild ship Trish, they have a whole turtles Turtles of turtles were led to believe that they spend I'm guessing what would be like as four to five hour flight talking about a woman named Trish that they made up. The entire time they're talking about seashells and their friendship bracelets and just every doesn't pass the Bechtel test. But one of my favorite exchanges was about Kermit's little frog legs. Yeah, well,

does Kermit count as as a guy? I think so, don't identify as a as a let me check. I don't know if a non human mail is a good question. I didn't remember to pay super close attention to this, but I feel like the movie does not pass the reverse Spechtel test in that men I think don't talk to each other really at all in this movie. Edgar and Darley Bunkle, do you talk to each other? Oh? Right,

retort right, yes, but just a little bit. Yeah. The bulk of the conversations in this movie are between women. Oh definitely yeah, And just shout out to Darley Bunkle and Edgar's fight in the same break. Um, Yeah, this movie is so fun and I hope that, yeah, it'll it'll make my form work. So let's let's get to

the nipple ratings, shall we? Yes? Zero to five nipples Based on how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens, I'm going to definitely knock off some points for the really unnecessary harmful mothering of the villain, especially because again, there's such a long history of ascribing a disability or medical condition or mental illness to villains in media as a way to other them and to further villainize them, which in turn demonizes and stigmatizes disabilities and conditions and

mental illnesses, which is obviously very harmful and there's no need and no excuse for that type of characterization. I was disappointed to see that in this movie. Um, this movie is way too white. Aside from those things, there is a lot about this movie that I really like, because so much of the movie is about celebrating female friendship and normalizing like women being alive in their forties and that being okay, which most movies do not deem

to be okay. And yeah, but they like rediscover themselves and their friendship is just strong, even stronger at the end of the movie. All those things like that, I'll give it. I think I'm okay with giving four nipples for four out of five. That might be way too high, but I do love this movie. And also I fumble the nipple rating every week, so um, I'll give one to Barb, but one to Star. I'll give one to Darley Bunkle and then my final nipple I'll give to

Jamie Dornan's song about seagulls in the sand. Can you hear my prayer? I'll go. I guess I'll go like four three point seven five. Ultimately the metrics meaningless. But but but yeah, I I I'll kind of echo what you said that they're making an ablest choice in your villain is just I don't know, like really stood out in a movie that you know, as we we said, tries to avoid those kinds of choices. Also, it is like a very white movie and didn't need to be. Um. Yeah,

but but but I do love this movie. It's so funny, it's so well written, and I love that it's like celebrating like long term female friendship and you know, doesn't make them fixated on marriage or fixated on it's or like it's just about them and like finding themselves and whether through relationship or whether it's through um, you know, like meeting Andy Garcia whatever that means to you. Um, so yeah, I'll go, I guess I'll go for it, and i'll um, I guess I'll just I'll just do

two to Barb two to start, keep it simple. Nice? What about you, Kate? Well, I think can I do point fives or you can do any increments? Yeah, okay, cool, I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it three point five. And if you asked me to read this on the

fund scale, I would say five out of five. But you know, through an intersectional feminist lens, this is a movie about white people having a very affluent experience, even if they're kind of last, and it does I think you know, rely on racist and ablest tropes to tell certain aspects of the story. So I don't know. I would say intersectional feminism three point five, but it is a really fun movie. Still fair, very fair, Well, Kate, thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.

It's been a delight. Oh, thank you so much for having me. Sorry. If you can hear my little cat in the microphone door, he is really mad that I locked him out. Well, you'll be able to return to him so soon. But first tell us where people can check out your stuff, follow you on social media, all that good stuff. So on Twitter. I am at Kate, will it and will it has two hours and two teas, And I am Kate dot will it same spelling on Instagram.

I have a new audiobook out called The Dirt Egg Anthropology that is an exploration of masculinity from my perspective, which is, you know, a feminist comedian, and it's kind of like part mem where our part podcast, part like you know, research, and it's just like it was a really really really fun project to make. It's just available on Audible Plus. And then I also have a podcast called Reply Guys with Julia Claire and it's a leftist. Yeah,

it's a leftist feminist comedy podcast. So you know, we we are talking about stuff through uh an interstectional feminist lens, but it's more like news and politics and stuff. So please check it out please, and you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram. At Bechtel Cast, we've got our Matreon to subscribe to. It's five dollars a month. It gets you access to two bonus episodes every month, plus the whole back catalog, and it can be found at

patreon dot com slash Pectel Cast. And you can get our merch at public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast for all your merchandise related needs. And with that, let's get another buried treasure. Yum yum. Was that ecstasy? Do you think that was ecstasy? Yeah, it's gotta be yeah, probably yeah, all right, bye bye bye