Always Be My Maybe with Keah Brown

On the Bechdelcast.

The questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and best start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Hello Bechdel Cast listeners, Hello Jamie and Caitlin.

Here a little plug at the top.

It's all coming together, it's all happening. I am going to be going on a book tour for the paperback release of my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about hot Dogs. Ever heard of it? It is coming out in soft cover. If you are the kind of person that doesn't want to spend twenty eight dollars out of book, fair enough, we have a more affordable option. And if you haven't purchased the book and you know, maybe you're able to now you know, it's also a great gift.

And I love a flaccid book.

Yeah, it's a little book. And if you do have the hardcover and you're a completionist, there is also a brand new ForWord that I wrote, and also the acknowledgments have been adjusted to acknowledge that my agents were resionists, so I don't really thank them anymore. So there's a thrilling edition there as well. But there is new stuff in the book and it costs less and we love that.

No please, by all means tell us Okay.

May thirteenth, twenty twenty five, almost my birthday, So I know I'm missing your birthday. It's an act of violence. I will be at North Fig Bookshop in Los Angeles, hosted by friend of the cast Julia Clair. May fourteenth. I will be at Carmichael's Bookstore in Louisville, Kentucky. On May fifteenth, I will be at the Cambridge Public Library in Massachusetts with the Harvard Bookstore and I will be in conversation with one of my dear friends, PBS's own

I am very, very excited.

On the twentieth, I will be going down to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, my home state. I know they're going to be begging, They're like, where are they? I will be at the Midtown Scholar Bookstore and Cafe in conversation with Joe Piazza. Then on May twenty first, I will be at the Fountain Bookstore in Richmond, Virginia. And on May twenty second, I will be at Coppersfield Books in Pedaluma, California. And finally, on May thirty first, I will be at Marin Country Mart,

I can't wait to see.

So if you click the link in the description, it will take you to the full page where you can register to go to these events. They are all free events, so come and hang out and provided that I get my shit together in time, there will also be speakers from local unions at all of these signings, So come out, make some friends, come hang out and h let's eat some hot dogs.

Beautiful. We'll throw the link to be able to access registration for the events on our link tree as well link tree slash Bechtel Cast, so there's no excuse not to come.

It's free, it's fun. I'll be wearing a little outfit. Come buy the book.

Woo.

One last quick note about this episode. We were kind of strapped for time during this recording and we ended up having to record some pickups a few days later with just Jamie and myself. So there's a chunk toward the end of the episode where you might know notice that our guest is not saying anything because she is not there. So just giving everyone a quick heads up about that. Enjoy the episode the cast.

Do Do Do Do Wow?

Jamie, will you always be my Maybe?

No, I'll always be your baby. I'll be your baby girl, Always be your baby, Always be my baby girl, Nicole Kipman twenty four.

So true.

I you know, it is funny thinking about after now having seen the movie there that even the title is indicating are these two right for each other? Welcome to the Bechel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.

My name is Caitlin Deonte. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point, and that, of course, is a medium created by Alison Bechtel. There are many versions of the test, and the one that we use is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation about something other than a man?

And in this economy is it too much to ask?

Yes?

Today? We'll find out. Yeah, we're really excited to We're just gonna jump in this week. This is a long time request. I think we have been getting consistent requests for this movie since it came out almost six years ago. So, you know, thank you for your patience. The time is now, the guest is perfect. We are covering Always Be My Maybe, twenty nineteen, directed by Nanachica, con starring and written by Ali Wong and Randall Park.

Ever heard of them?

Hopefully they're right.

They're so funny. And speaking of so funny, our guest today is an author, screenwriter, journalist, actress, also best friend to the Pod period and you know her from past episodes such as Ever After, Hairspray, Cadet Kelly nineteen ninety seven, Cinderella, It's Kia Brown, Yay, I'm I'm.

So happy to be here, and they totally organically came up with calling me bestie of the Pod. Yeah, it was totally organic. I didn't treasure them at all.

It just felt right. It felt right, it did.

I just love them, and I was like, I need to be here. I miss you, we miss you.

Thanks for coming back, come back always always always, So, what is your history your relationship with always be my maybe.

Okay, So here's the thing. I love Ali Wong, and when it first premiered, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna watch it play like period. And then I watched it, I fell in love with Randall Park, and I've been, you know, rewatching it kind of regularly since because I mean I knew who Randall Park was because he was on Fresh off the Boat. But really my relationship is just like, Wow, a man who I like.

Wild They really make it hard to like them, Yeah, they do.

But Randall Park is I think, like s Tier, just naturally charming, very much like it, just irresistible, very likable.

So yeah, you watch it when it first came out, and then have just been watching it steadily since.

Yes, pretty much. It had been a while since I did rewatch before the pod, but I rewatched it this morning just to you know, refresh myself. But I tend to watch it a lot when I'm like I need a rom com day. I need something that feels like, you know, life is good.

Nice. I'm not a big rom com person, never have been, but this is one that I like a lot more than a lot of other rom cos I saw that when it I think right when it first came out. Also my concept of time. I mean, I'm not saying anything new here, but the pandemic really warped all of our understanding.

This movie came out like yet the year before. I feel like I have a real hard time with movies from twenty nineteen now where you're like, you have no idea, you don't know what it's like here. Well, I was like, yeah, not the movie's fault, but I'm just like buckle in assholes.

Well, I was like, yeah, this movie probably came out in like twenty twenty three. No, it came out so many years before that, but.

Which felt like the weirdest time capsule. Watching it back, You're like, yeah, why does this feel like an old time film?

It is?

That was another thing I had in my notes where I feel like this movie for me right now exists in this kind of like Uncanny Valley where it feels kind of dated because it was six years ago and it's very like of the moment it came out, but it's not old enough to feel nostalgic for it. And so I feel like comedy movies that are like between like six and you know, ten ish years old. You're like, it's just it's I don't know, it's it's it doesn't feel like, oh yeah, I miss this time. I'm like,

It was.

Yeah, but yeah, I mean I saw it pretty early on into it being released on Netflix. I think I got like a tiny theatrical release, but it was like mostly a Netflix movie. Yeah.

And you can tell because they mentioned Fix broadly mentioned Netflix.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the thing is, you know, it's the grossest part. I find that so charming.

I mean, it's like the Christmas Expanded. Yeah, when Lindsay Lohan is watching the Christmas Prints, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I like that. But is there anything more twenty nineteen than Ali Wong being like, is it the Crown? I'm like, oh my god, it was a moment. It was a moment.

Yeah.

Anyway, So I generally like this movie. I have some thoughts, I have some notes, but this is more my speed when it comes to rom coms, and I'd seen it I think twice before prepping for this episode. But yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Jamie what about You.

Okay, I this is my first time seeing this movie. I was going in like kind of not even thinking that I would not enjoy it because I love Ali Wong Randall Park, one of the most charismatic comic actors that exists. I read a little bit about the movie before. I love that they co wrote it together. I love that there was so much energy, like their fans to

I didn't like it.

I found it and part of this is like me projecting a little bit. But but but hear me out. I think this couple is not gonna make it.

I think this.

I found it very stressful. I found this couple to be very, very, very stressful. I think she should not have this man's child. He learned how to do laundry three days ago. And she's like, I think I'm gonna I want to be with you for the rest of my life. I like, I don't know, I don't And I also find it like this is very rom comy, but I feel like a lot of rom coms, the reason that they don't quite click is because they don't bother to write one of the characters. But both of

Guess what, guess what.

Two weeks ago, everything about me changed. I am a fundamentally new person, and it's for you. I no longer resent your success. I am willing to uproot my entire life to be with you. I've fully processed the death of my mother, and actually I think it would be amazing if you made a ton of money making her recipes. I also think that's creepy.

But anyways, his mom like plagiarizing his mom's recipes.

I think she should.

I mean, I feel like she should have like checked in with him more before being like, just's what my business is your dead mom's recipes?

What? I like?

I am not rooting for them. I think that ten days after the events of the last scene in this movie, he wakes up and is like, oh my god, I have left everything I ever know. I don't have a job. I have stated in public that it is my dream to like, I feel like the feminism of this movie is very weird, where it's like feminism is a man definitely changing and giving up on any of his ambition. You're like, no, it's not, but his band isn't gonna be successful, like we all saw it that.

It's just I found.

It so stressful, like she has taken on and I think she's asking too much of him by having him move across the country, like she is not compromised with him at all. I just am like, I don't know. I've been in couples counseling before, and these two are they are not gonna go the distance I feel I feel for them. They deserve happiness, but not with each other.

I don't disagree. I also don't think they're compatible nor will they make it. But I've never seen a rom call.

Blood pressure was off the charts. I was so scared for them.

For me, I'm just like, I watch any rom com and I'm like, yeah, none of these people are gonna make it. I don't even like consider that.

See I get I think, I mean, I see what you're saying, but I think that I just found it busy. I mean, and there's we'll talk about. There's so much to love about this movie. There's a lot to love about this movie, but I just was so I found the central relationship to be so distracting, where every beat of the movie of them growing closer, I'm like, this is toxic.

This is toxic.

And you don't need to marry the person you lost your virginity too, Like you can just be close with them and be like I always find that to be like a weirdly conservative thing to be like, oh, you know, it's your first love. Also this, oh my god, sorry, I was like, my face is hot the scene where and this is definitely be projecting because I recently lost

I loved that.

I loved it because I felt the same way about Elie Wong. I was like, yeah, they try it.

It was literally watching Penn fifteen for ten minutes of the movie.

Literally, you're like, I loved them fifteen, So yeah, celebratory.

I wish I almost wish they'd played into that a little more. But I mean I didn't have an issue with that, but just that that, like the way that that played out where his mom had just died. Ali Wong is like, well, she's my mom too, and and Randall Park correctly is like, well, no she's not. And then she's like, I'm never gonna speak to you again. I was like, that's awful. You're being a bad friend. And she never apologizes, She never apologizes for doing that.

What I'm about to say it's so controversial, I can't wait. First of all, I disagree entirely. Okay, So here's the thing. Okay, I think it wasn't that he I'm speaking solely of the end of the movie. I don't think he flew there and was like I changed all of these things about myself just for you. I think it was just like, I would rather fuck up on all lives things win you than I would without you. And so for me. And here's the kicker. We deeply agree that she never apologized,

Yeah, Like that's a very their chemistry is amazing.

Their chemistry is amazing, So I think that that's what's doing the heavy lifting for me. But I literally was like, oh, I hope they make it.

I hope they're make it, even though.

They've got a ton of stuff to work through. Like, like you said, she doesn't really compromise at all throughout the movie, Like I forgot until you said it that they literally flew across the world and the dad it's like, thanks for letting us visit to see the new rest And then I was like, oh.

Right, yeah, she's like I made this right. She doesn't mean even though she has a restaurant in San Francisco.

That she can easily run, she could have changed the restaurant in San Francisco to be closer to what she always wanted it to be, not open a new one.

And the end of the plot moved so quickly that it was very whiplashy, where yeah, no, she doesn't compromise at all, which is I guess, okay to the extent that they broke up, Like she didn't, she didn't owe him anything. But like there is this montage of like Randall Park randomly gets his shit together and he's like, I'm just he just moved into his own apartment and now he's leaving, Like what do you mean?

And you know how expensive it is to break a lease.

He's like, San Francisco, I'll like get real. He's like, I'm out of here all right before we sorry, sorry, Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to the recap and then we will dive back in.

And we're bad.

This is thrilling, this, this is hot.

This is this is heat from a stove that.

Sasha Randall Park's dead Mom's recipe.

Like also, like, no, it got to be rude, but like, why couldn't they kill off the dam Like.

I like, I thought his I thought the dad character was so charming.

I love the dad. But if you're gonna kill off a character, why is it always the mom?

It's always so often always And I was literally, okay again, I just like, don't think this movie is very well written, because I was literally in the middle of writing down I love the mom character, and then it cut to they're just chilling on a bridge and the dad walks.

It reminded me of the first scene in a series of unfortunate events, just like he comes out of the shadows and he's like, bad news, your mom's dead, and then cut to their fucking You're like, what the pasic.

Is so bizarre?

You know what?

I hated. I hated her parents because I hate when it's like parents are absentee and then they're like, well I showed up now, and like again this has been projecting, But I hate an absentee parent that's like, oh, well, you know, I went in and bought the food at the restaurant, and I didn't tell them that we were related, so like I paid full price, but that's gonna be the fix to our relationship. It's like either way, yeah, I know that Randall's mom wasn't her mom, but her

I wish that they had like gotten into that a little bit more, because too, we didn't. We weren't really told unless I missed it and it was said in passing. We weren't really told why they weren't around. There wasn't really which I mean, I just would have appreciated I guess more context there. And then on Randall Park's side, I feel like you could get I mean, it's still I agree the dead mom troupe is such a trope, but like if more reference was made to her throughout

Yeah.

I was curious about her parents too, because you're totally right. He like, I think like the bond that she has with Randall Park's mom Marcus, sorry, Marcus's mom. I believe her name is Judy, but I thought that was like really cool and like a surrogate parent and like someone who can give you emotional support but they just don't really get into it ever. And I don't know, Yeah, I just it' And then the way that, yeah, she the way she forgives her parents at the end, it

The little birthday party they had where she was they were like oh, they go all out for the sun god son whatever he is. And she's like, oh, when I was eight, they gave me like a I don't know.

A pair of foot flop.

Thank you, I said, a trapper Jesus, I'm aging myself a pair of foot flaps.

And I'm just like and like, what changed?

Yeah, like explore that. Why are they not saying, like, I just think not enough round coms show apologies in the way that I need them to.

For sure. Yeah, we've talked about that quite a bit on many but.

On a few levels here like yeah, like we we needed a better I mean, there was technically an apology from the parents, but it was like half asked.

Yeah. I was like, hey, we're here now, Yeah, we flew to you, so like lead on a plane, let's let's.

Just let everything else go like step one. Because also like some bouscemis hast stuff in here. That Again, towards the end, it's so rushed where they break up. It seems like the understanding is they're not going to speak anymore.

It's like, if that's the case, the merch buying was what both because I was like, if you're buying his merch and you're not upset anymore, then reach out and say something. Especially because they had the earlier scene where they both wanted to text each other and neither of

But you you know, oh, is that the Glenn Powell? What's her face?

Seeing it?

I hate it?

Not a shred of chemistry so badly written of a movie as well.

She literally acts like she just took a Bena drill before each of her lines, like she took a benadrill. They said action and she did a line. I can't no chemistry. It was like watching paint dry, but worse, so bad.

That was a movie that I was like, I've watched it on a plane in five years.

You know, don't skip it, don't even bother.

Yeah, there's better playing movies to watch.

Yes, anyway, So the recap of.

We've told you a lot of what happens.

Yeah, so I'm gonna speak for this.

Okay, here we go.

We meet two best friends kids in San Francisco in nineteen ninety six.

They mysteriously sound like an Ali Sorry I'm complaining again. Every character in this movie mysteriously sounds like they're reading Ali Wong's stand up. It doesn't matter. These children speak in lines from Baby Cobras.

So this is Sasha Tran and Marcus Kim. They're best friends. Sasha is a latch key kid. Her parents are often out running their store, so she goes over to Marcus's house quite a bit and hangs out with him and his mom and his dad. His mom teaches Sasha a few things about cooking. She also already has kind of like a proclivity for it, and she has to like prepare her own meals quite a bit. This will obviously pay off later because she becomes a chef. Anyway, they

But again, I'm just like her bedside manner with his mother's tragic passing is so unbelievably bad, which she's like, will this help?

Like no, But they start making out and they have sex in the back of his Toyota Corolla, but it's very awkward afterward and they get into an argument and Sasha storms off. Cut to twenty nineteen in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it? Sasha and Marcus haven't for many years.

They were at Stories. Did you notice when they were at Stories?

Oh?

No, I didn't.

There was definitely one scene. It was supposed to be San Francisco, but La heads well, no, the bookstore Stories is uh one of the greatest places in the city, and there's definitely they definitely shot teenage Randall Park being in his band was like at one of our bookstores down the street.

Over, I did not realize that.

Wow, I would recognized that weird mural. It's just like when Lady Gaga was at the Verge.

Wow.

Yeah, Wow, a star is born.

Hollywood, Hollywood. I was like, wow, I've bombed on both of those stages.

That's so cool.

Same yeah, okay. Anyway, So it's twenty nineteen. Now, Sasha is now a successful celebrity chef. She's about to open a restaurant in San Francisco in a couple of weeks. She's got a hot fiance, a fiance Brandon, played by Daniel day Kim.

I'm for cheering Daniel day Kim in a beige track suit. I was like a bu, like a b really horny for the beige tracksuit for some reason, and I was like wow.

I was like, yes, Diva, I didn't I didn't know your game, but I know it now.

You know when someone can look hot in a tracksuit, it's like, okay, this is a this is another level.

Yeah, good for you, good for you. Truly. Anyway, So they're engaged, but it doesn't seem like they have a very warm or loving relationship. Meanwhile, Marcus lives in San Francisco. He's still in his band called Hello Peril. They play, you know, like crummy gigs or what we're supposed to think or crummy gigs. He smokes a lot of weed. He still lives with his dad, who's played by James Sato, and Marcus is not motivated by capitalism, so we are

Okay, that's another big thing about, Like, yeah, I don't I do like that their business, which again they're like, oh you're not. I'm like, these are really good union jobs, like right, like shut up.

Let's call a spaderes bad do. I think that the band is trash absolutely, But his day dadad, his day job is kind of like a big one, Like that's a good job. That's a good man, Savannah, and it is wild.

I truly, I was like, I cannot like especially because these characters are in their thirties, Like I would not be like, oh, you know this man that I'm in love with who has a like great union job, I'm not going to be like quit, leave everything you know and be in.

Your horrible band, Like I don't.

Support men's dreams like that.

Like, well, I think it's because he works a blue collar job that we're supposed to be, Like he needs to get out of that.

He needs to do more.

Yeah, that's sort of part of the girl bossiness of this of like it is coded that someone could not possibly be satisfied or content working at blue collar job, or that they couldn't be content living where they grew up either, like you have to move to New York City and be an artist or you're a failure.

Totally okay. So back in La Sasha's fiance Brandon says that he wants to postpone their wedding and see other people for a while, and Sasha's friend and colleague, Veronica played by Michelle Buteau, is like what the fuck, like fuck that guy, and Sasha's like, yeah, probably. Then she and Veronica head to San Francisco together to open the new restaurant. They rent a house there and Veronica hires Marcus and his dad to install or repair an air

Like, he's really plot vibes at different moments. Yeah, he walks into the city. He's like, your mother is dead. He walks into the cities, like you two should be to get together. At the end of the.

Movie, I acause, first of all, I love the actor who plays his dad, but I also laughed at the point in the film when he was like, I can do my shot in the ass by myself, and it's like we saw him to give you a shot on the shoulder, so I was right when did it twitch right? There?

Again, it's just like the lack of detail that appears a different because it's like they're like, I'm his caretaker, but we don't know, we don't know have any context for what that means. He implies that he doesn't need a caretaker, but then it kind of comes back later as if he does like it was just really confused and and and then again, I think Ali Wank's character was super insensitive by being like, what.

Do you mean you're just saying you need to be.

Your dad's caretaker because you won't follow your dream or such like how projecting you're projecting?

And then the thing with him getting with the Diana Ross impersonator. I was like, Okay, I guess, like I get it. Yeah, like I'm happy for you, you know, but it just it just seems so rare and don and and also too, I did not like the character

Oh we're about to be We're getting close.

Yeah, this is this is a chaos episode. I love you.

Oh Okay. So Sasha decides to go to Marcus's band's gig that night or the next night or whatever, and it's a nice time and it seems like maybe things are starting to be less awkward between Marcus and Sasha. But then Marcus's girlfriend, Jenny played by Vivian Bang shows up. She's a big fan of Sasha's and wants to cook for her, So Jenny invites her back to like her and Marcus's place and basically makes a hot dog based dish for Sasha.

Yeah, and uh, Sasha has a real snob about it. I'm like, listen, there's a b I have a book for you.

I got to be fair. Who likes who likes? Though, and.

I think, well, okay, I'm uniquely going to defend them. But when properly cooked, it didn't seem like she cooked it very well though.

Yeah, it seemed like a pretty gross dish. Yeah, But the whole idea here is that Jenny is very cooky and clearly not the right match for Marcus.

Even though it's like they're making it out like and and there, I thought we were a couple of cheap jokes that they have this character say where it's like the idea again where it's just like, this movie has moments that feel bizarrely conservative, like Jenny's character brings up that she was she used to be poly amorous, and that's very much like.

She's weird.

Weird. Yeah, I didn't have the spiritually married thing right. That was also played for laughs.

Yeah, it was just yeah, it was just kind of cheap because it's like, Okay, if polyamory is not your thing, that's fine, But we're looking at two characters who lost their virginity to each other and barely get along. Like I'm supposed to take your feelings on polyamory seriously, get a grip.

Yes.

Anyway, So they're all hanging out and then Marcus gives Sasha a ride home in the car that they had sex in all those years ago.

Which I like, sorry, but I just hate to eat get that car like it took me off. I don't know why I had such a visible reaction, and I was like, get a new.

You've got a good job, Like, I don't know that it's not a it's not a money Why he's still driving the carl.

Get a vehicle shrug.

They're both such anyway.

They they're reminiscing about the past, and then she invites him to a birthday party the following day at her parents' house. They're celebrating a little cousin or something. During the party, Sasha gets a call from her fiance Brandon, who she had seen on social media canoodling with pad Malakshmi, and so Sasha yells.

At him, Daniel Da Kevin pad Mlakhvi, like, honestly make it happen, watch someone arrange that day.

Anyway, they break up is basically what happens. Meanwhile, Sasha and Marcus seem to be connecting more and more, although it's still a little awkward between them, but they go out for some food and they talk about Marcus's band. Sasha thinks that they're good and they can be really big, but Mark doesn't have huge aspirations, and she keeps judging him.

For that, which again is like this is where it starts. It really started to kick in for me of like, then you guys just aren't compatible. It's okay, Like it's it's not a character I mean, I think the way that she's judgmental of him is a character flaw and is a dark quality. But it's like, if she wants someone who is really ambitious and working in a creative field, this is not the person for you. Accept it.

Also, I think the bigger thing is and again as the defender of this relationship aside.

I'm neutral, is like, the band's not good, Like I look.

That because Randall Park, I guess was He's like, it's based on my band from the nineties. I was like, well, yeah, claud you're an act right.

The thing is is like I know he likes to wrap and do that stuff. Like I'm like talk shows and stuff, and that's great. We love a hobby, but the the band is so that sounded Sony Randall Park, I love you, You're perfect, but it's just like, I just don't feel like the band itself was as good as she was trying to make us believe it was. Therefore, I was like, oh, she wants to really like him because she just keeps telling people, Oh my god, they're good and they could be big. No, they won't be.

When she's like, why don't you.

Go on a world tour, I'm like, what do you talk?

Did you hear?

What? Talent and money and time? What do you guys do it? And I think maybe that's very AI wound with me. I'm an earth sign, but I just feel like I'm a virgirl, so like we love a plan I just feel like your job with your daughter is great if you want to just take over that. Butiness that made more sense to me than like holding on to I'm gonna be in this bak like do it

Yeah, I agree.

I didn't mind some of the band's lyrics. I'll say that. Oh I thought they were kind of funny.

Yes, absolutely, Like I punched on I've seen that all the time, Like I was, I was singing it, I was the credits, and I'm like, why don't I remember all these words?

I thought the tennis ball song was cute, but they're they're like forty. I was like, I can't be just like saying songs about tennis ball different and be like and I'm a viable partner. That's again.

But like, yeah, I agree that they were.

They were really pushing the band is like, but and and like you're saying, Kia that his character. It didn't seem like that was his Like I want to be a famous musician like that, right, I don't know. Yeah, it's like it's if he is content and I don't know.

It's it's also just I think really weird that, like I think you can absolutely be career focused, like Eli Lung's character. Why do I not know their names? What is going on with me?

Sasha and Marcus Sasha?

Okay, the thing with like Alis, the thing with Sasha, Like, Okay, I know I want to do I want to I want to have restaurants. I want to do like like this is important to me and his sort of thing is like I'm grieving and that's important to me. But I don't know. I just felt like it would have been so much richer if he had a thing that he was like good at, you know, right again that's that's me speaking from a capitalistic society. But like what if he could draw girl folded like a launcher.

I would have felt like like one of his French girls.

Yeah, Like, I don't know.

I just felt like I maybe I'm just a defender of the band Hello Peril, But I was like that was his thing, that that is what he's doing.

It needs your support.

Is it amazing?

No?

But I would have gone to see them for fun one night.

I don't know, for fun for sure.

Yeah for fun, Yeah, for fun one night.

Imagine her trying to follow him around in a world tour. I mean it's just the songs.

I was like, this band has been together for twenty years or something and they I only have three songs.

Which is why it because everybody looks younger than I.

Mean they are, because I did it, Charlie ye Is they were born. I mean they're like fifteen years younger than well.

They addressed that in the movie, they're like, oh, it's just me and I forget the other guy's name, but it's like those were the original members and then they're like and then we added new people later.

So also, like, again, I've seen this movie a handful of times at this point, never knew that the parents had a store.

Never only because it's in one quick, almost throwaway line where they leave a message on the answering machine for young Sasha and they're like, sorry, we won't be home. We're stuck at the store. Make yourself dinner. So like that's the only time we have any indication of what they do, right, But yeah, that also could have been like why don't we see them at the store or

I remember this was like, this was like a very like break the Internet kind of moment when it happened. That's the only thing I knew about this movie was that there is an extended Keanu Reeves cameo and it.

Yes where he plays himself, which I don't mind. I had a good time.

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

I'm a hater.

I mean, I love Kia know, I just I'm burned out on like a celebrity being like celebrities are weird.

It's like, well, I think I liked it because he just seems so excited because he was like and I never get to play, you know, and I'm like half agent or something. There was like some interview you did where he like made it deeply philosophia, when I was like, I love that for you can like if you're happy, I'm happy and I'm the only thing that I really like about it is the extended bit when he like goes to visit Ellie Wong and like a stand up

I mean, Ali Wong is the close I also love. I feel like she and Bill Hayter what a powerful couple.

I know too.

I was like that, it just makes sense. I love it. It does.

They seem so happy they do had no idea they were together.

Isn't that a.

Good match though?

You're just like such a good match.

Oh okay. So then Sasha has just met some mystery guy. Meanwhile, Marcus's dad is like, I don't know about your girlfriend, Jenny. You should be with Sasha and tell her how you feel. And Marcus is like, hmm, sounds like a good idea. So he goes to her and he's about to tell her, but before he can, Sasha is like, I met someone. Let's all go on a double date. And then it turns out to be Keanu Reeves is her new lover,

Then she's like, but not anymore, not for nothing. I found that line confusing that he was like, you liked me. I was like, you guys did have sex likes. It's not that, I mean, I guess, the whole life thing, but I was like, you fucked. You can't be completely shocked that she was attracted to you.

Right, Yeah? And then things escalate from there, and this game culminates in Marcus and Keanu getting into a fistfight,

The sex scene is great.

Yeah, no, no, no complaints, no complaints.

No good scene.

Let's keep it. Let's keep that scene in.

There, keep that scene in there.

And then after this, Sasha and Marcus start dating and it's nice for a little while, but then Sasha has to go to New York to open her restaurant there. Marcus is apprehensive about going with her, and then after this like red carpet event, they get in another fight where he's like, I think the food you make is pretentious and it caters to rich white people, and she's like, oh, yeah, well I need you to be more supportive of my capitalistic ambitions.

Well, I mean it's it's fair to ask for support of her ambition. I would think that that is unreasonable. I think what is unreasonable is at the end of the movie, she is still making food basically for rich white people, but now she's making his dead mom's recipes for rich white people, and I'm like, it's it's worst question mark.

Like, meanwhile, I'm like, girl, get your bill.

I'm not upset that she's like successful, I don't know. That's fine.

I have a whole piece that I'll be quoting from later that's all about how Sasha's character is complicit in gentrification and all this stuff. All yeah, we'll get to that. But anyway, So now it's the night of the opening of Sasha's San Francisco restaurant. Marcus doesn't go with her, and he says he doesn't want to go to New York with her either, So they basically break up and they're both very sad, and Sasha goes to New York alone and he starts to harass her. Yeah, but he

Merch except no, they don't. And this is never like again, I'm like that never to me should be a source of conflict of like, oh, you think so little of my potential as an artist that you were buying all of the merch, Like, how would that not be a hit to his confidence?

See that's not even see yeah, I would be like, oh you bought all my thank you, I love you bad because if somebody was like, oh I want to see if he succeed.

And they bought all my books. Baby, I'm not gonna be upset. I'm gonna be like, thank you, I love you. Let's like you know, fair enough, Yeah, you know, go do it, or like.

Yeah, anyway, the movie's almost over. So now he goes to Sasha's San Francisco restaurant because he's like, maybe she's there and maybe I can talk to her. But she's not in New York famously like she said, right. But he goes into her office and this is when he sees that she had bought all of his merch and so he's like, wait a minute, does she love me?

Got her blessing from beyond. I don't know how this.

At this point, I'm like, if I'm Randall Park, I'm ever speaking to this woman again, and I'm suing her.

And he said, he's like, wow, that's awesome.

She's like, I stole your mom's recipes and I'm going to do it in my little gentrification pistro and then goes to her like the widower.

And is like, she'd love this right after the business is open, Like, yeah, that.

Would be nice. If it was just like not open and that's what she was planning to do, right, that would have that would have worked a little bit better, I think. But I also saw in the beginning how her mom was like very supportive of her cooking and she's like, oh, here's how you do it. So in a way, it felt like she was sharing in this moment with I'm just excuse, but she was sharing this moment with his mom, and it was like.

You know, I mean, I knew what they were going for. I just like it just felt so I mean, I think that this was one of the many elements of like the last fifteen to twenty minutes of the movie. They just felt really really really rush.

Yeah.

Well, anyways, that's the end of the movie. Basically, like Marcus Loves the Restaurant, the opening goes, well, everyone has a nice time the end. So let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss further.

And we're back. I know that we have a lot to get to. One of the things I just wanted to sort of go back to the original round of press around this movie when it came out, because something that I also, you know, knew about this movie that is absolutely worth talking about is that it is one of the few, like mainstream rom coms that has Asian American characters at its center and is also written by literally the stars of the movie but Asian American, right.

Yeah, for sure. A lot of movies treat Asian characters and Asian American characters as a monolith and adhere to so many reductive tropes, and I agree that this movie subverts a lot of them. I wanted to share a quote from Ali Wong from an interview that she and Randall Park did in Glamour, where she says, quote to me, Marcus's character is very much a type of guy that I grew up with, a very Asian American dude who grew up in the Bay and lives at home well

Yeah, I think what's really nice as like the person of color, like the black person right now on the pot is like I went into it being like I forgot how nice it was not to have something centered around whiteness, Like, yeah, there was a conversation around like, you know, you're catering your restaurant to like rich white people, but it was like not to be inundated with whiteness as a default was really really nice because it's been such a long time, which again, what is time with

Since, right, for sure. That's why I feel we've I feel like we will probably unfortunately keep talking about this on the show of like feeling like around this time in the late twenty tens, where there was starting to be more representation in genres where we didn't normally see it, we were getting better written characters who weren't meant like

Well that's the thing, because I just saw two movies that are at the time of this recording, I think, still in theaters but hard to find because they don't have huge releases. But I saw The Wedding Banquet.

And Oh Yes, It's a Nice.

Indian Boy, which are two queer romantic comedies slash dramaedis that feature predominantly Asian American characters, and but they're not They don't have the same marketing around them, so I feel like a lot of people don't know about them or as much about them.

Yeah, they're on my list. I'm trying to figure out how I can see them both because I've heard good thing.

They're both really good right there, but they're hard to like. I I also saw The Wedding Banquet and it's already like halved in terms of the numbers of screenings that it's getting, and I haven't seen any marketing for it. Like I just knew I'll see anything Bowen yangs in, so the ads found me.

But yeah, I mean overall, like I saw a lot of writing about this movie to the effect of how refreshing it was for so many viewers, particularly Asian American audiences, where they were able to see a pretty standard rom com story because the idea for this movie was Ali Wang and Rendall Park being like, hey, we should make our own version of When Harry Met Sally, right, And the movie follows a lot of the same beats as that movie, So it's a pretty you know, standard rom

So I also think it's funny too, like as the disabled person, the joke. I remember when I first watched the movie, the joke about the parking placards really pissed me off. But then I watched it today and I was like, oh, that's really funny. Like I think part of it is just like one I chilled out because like for a while there, I was just like yeah, and then you know, I like relaxed a little bit. But it was actually funny this go around.

You mean the scene where they noticed how when they're in Chinatown and.

Yeah, how every every part has the parking platters. Yeah, that scene, I was like, Oh, this is actually funny. And I don't know, I think I think two, it really shows the passing of time for me. I mean this said nothing to do technically with a movie. But when I first sat like, I think I wrote an article about it about how like or a tweet or something when Twitter was good about how that singular section upset me. And then I noticed today that I was like fully laughing at it, and I said, oh, what

Like yeah, and then and then Sasha is like, yeah, they have these placards, but look at him getting out of his truck all able bodied, which could mean that he just has an invisible disability, right you know.

Yeah, So I think it.

Does a good job and either both like poking at her and the idea that she has no idea how like disability actually works, and also the idea that like people are just so convinced that disable people have all kinds are gaming the system. I remember once this lady like knocked on the car door and I put my hand out, like my right hand out so she could see. I'm like, hello, what what are you gonna do? Like

I mean, for me, my big criticism around this movie, and I've already alluded to this is the way that the movie handles class and.

Which in some ways I've also noticed that, And I was like, in some ways, I feel like that is it is truly just like they made a rom com that centers Asian American characters in a way that I think was very impactful, but they still made an American rom com where it is like insensitive to class and like very bootstrap aspirational in all the ways that American rom coms tend to be.

Right.

Yeah, Like I almost I mean not to invalidate what you're saying, obviously, Caitlin, but I almost feel like that's the beauty in it, because when you approach any genre as a person of color, people do expect you to have, like the set decisions and set thoughts on all of the things that other rom coms tend to ignore.

So there's some power in the fact that they didn't address it in that way, because it was like, Okay, we don't have to in the same way that they don't, you know, when Harry met.

Staley totally right, like setting the bar high, like higher for marginalized creators kind of thing.

Yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying, because I mean, so much of art, the creators of color make is held to a very rigid standard, and if there's too much subversion then people will be all up in arms and oh, this isn't a rom com because X y Z I just I mean. And also this came out in twenty nineteen, when culturally we were less critical of capitalism. I think in the past five years there's been a pretty significant shift.

I mean, yeah, the pandemic got a lot of people radicalized.

For sure, So I'm not surprised that this movie isn't very critical of capitalism, but I still think it's worth pointing out where it manifests in a couple different ways. One of them is part of the dynamic of their relationship is that by capitalists society's standards, Sasha is more quote unquote successful because she's a business owner and she

But he's like quote unquote viable. Yeah, which again I feel like for me the fix here because I hear what you're both saying, and I feel like the fix here is the writing gets caught up in this like capitalistic idea of what happiness looks like when this conversation I feel like would be more effective and would make me feel less kind of icky about the relationship if it was about passion versus success. And I think Kia you mentioned earlier, like if we saw that Randall Park

And also too, it just seems like the thing with Sastress like does she love it or is it just the career she's good at? Right?

Not clear?

That's the question that I have too, because I was just like, do you love your job because you don't seem that happy doing right.

She's like, I'm doing it because I have to. And it's also but it's like why do you have to let's keep Yeah, you just want to like push the script a little further. And I mean, and Kaitlyn, you're totally right the gentrification aspect, Like in some ways it's like, yeah, this is what Meg Ryan would do it in a I mean, at least, at very least, this is not the most egregious gentrification realm complot point that will always go to you've got mail.

But but but yeah, it just especially if a movie made in twenty nineteen, it felt again, I'm wondering if there were drafts of the script that dealt with this a little or that developed this.

Or a little more thoughtfully, because it just felt so fast at the end.

Even I think too then it's is gonna be I don't know, but like remember the white girl that she was like the assistant of and she she was gonna get Yes, she was scared, she was gonna get fired the whole time, even if she was like, you know what, I'm gonna relinquish dealing with this one here. I'll give Michelle Puto's other one and I'm gonna put my focus

In New York, I got a she's franchising, Like, yeah, she's franchising.

It was like, girl, I get it. But at the same time, you can't the mean Marcus for not having direction when your direction is just you and constant movement without being able to rest. There's something to have to your therapist, a bounty, but like, why do you need to be in constant movement? Sit down somewhere, take on that, take.

Us correct, as the kids said, touch some grass, Ali Wong. Yeah, And I mean it's the criticism of the gentrification aspects of the restaurant come up really fast and only at the end, and the only resolution given for it is, oh, I'll just steal your dead mom's recipe. Does that work? And it weirdly and he's like, oh, yeah, that solves gentrification as long as you.

Like, as long as we can stop the whole fusion, just make them as they are, and that's that. And it's just like, I don't I don't think we knew enough of their material thoughts in a lot of places that we needed them.

For sure, sure, because we don't know I mean like is again, yeah, where it's just like it seems like there's a sort of void of passion between these two characters in their pursuits, where I'm like, is Ali Wong really passionate about the food her restaurants serve? We don't really know, we don't really ever see her cooking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have alluded to this piece a couple times already, but I just want to share a few quotes from a piece in plan A magazine by writer Promise Lee entitled Always Be My Maybe Gentrification and the Asian American rom com. The piece starts by commenting on the criticisms of crazy rich Asians when that movie came out, how it only portrayed very affluent Asian characters really just.

The richest people humanly possible. Yeah, reruly.

It goes on to make a similar point that we were making earlier regarding the Sasha characters, kind of like constantly berating Marcus for his lifestyle.

And the movie, like the events and logic of the movie. Siding with her on that is, I feel like it's never like she has a because it's one thing if she has a realization of like I've been so judgmental based on class, or like, I think there's such a thing as like projecting at the class you grew up in, or whatever it may be, But there is no such realization. It's just like it seems like those are the values of the movie, right, Yeah.

And then the piece goes on to examine her work as a like restauranteur and the types of restaurants that she's opening, and so the piece says, quote of course, the film's concluding scene demonstrates that its ideal of innovation does not equate to a rejection of all tradition. Tradition for Sasha must be done well. It needs to sell. Sasha's final invention in the film is a Korean restaurant, more quote unquote authentic then her previous eateries, as it

And the thing that is frustrating about this is I think that you can maintain the tone of this movie and still address it. And it's sort of hint because the elements of gentrification are hinted at in passing with jokes. You can tackle a topic as serious and insidious as gentrification in a rom com, and I think that these writers are well qualified to do it, which kind of makes it a little more bizarre that it goes in so hard on the capitalism.

Angle, right, so disappointing.

But again, I mean, as as Kio is saying too, it's you know, it is one of the ways in which this movie kind of for worse adheres to the values of the American rom com because American rom coms are nothing if very pro capitalist.

Absolutely. One of the things that is subverted switching gears here. But that I wanted to comment on is glasses representation.

Oh, I thought that too.

I mean, that's Ali Wong in general. She's been on that beat for for many years. And some of the best glasses in the game.

Such good glasses. Yeah. Friend of the Show Canise Mobley often cites this movie when talking about representation of characters wearing glasses. And then I would go on to realize that there's like, there are whole Reddit threads about her

Yeah.

No, I I appreciate that. I think about that a lot because I I guess it is like sort of drilled into you culturally because I wear glass. My vision's horrible. I wear glasses, but usually not two occasions, and that is a very culturally bashed in thing. I do wonder to some extent if that movie because there is the she's all that element of I feel like just the lazy, you know, twentieth century person wearing glasses, dork thing.

Nerd alert.

Yeah, but also having worked in production, I do sort of wonder if it's just a glare issue sometimes, like it is hard to film people in glasses, but the glasses are such a huge part of who Ali Wong is, and you know, certainly no one could accuse Ali Wang of being anything but very hot and like treated as such. Yeah, that is a good I hadn't even thought of that. I just was admiring her frames. She has great taste in frames, she really does.

Yeah, the movie does pass the Bechdel test. Yeah, but between Sasha and Veronica and her mom and Marcus's mom, so yeah, there's many interactions.

I will say, we didn't have a lot of time to talk about Michelle Buttoe's character, not that there's a ton to talk but I did think again where this is like, this is firmly an American rom com where Michelle Buteau is best friending the hell out of this role. Like we don't know anything. We do find out that she has a partner, but her whole thing is she's pregnant and she really cares about Ali Wong's character's interior life. It's very rom com.

Also, I noticed this time for the first time that she knew them when they were kids. Yes, I never noticed that she was supposed to be the other little girl at the table.

Yeah.

I also noticed that on my most recent watch.

Yeah, I was like, oh, I never popped them.

Because they don't talk to her or address her by name or anything like that.

So yeah, and I was just like, it really reiterated my desire. I know that she has survival as the thickest, but it really reiterated my desire to see her in like a firmly rom com movie that's full of all of the tropes.

I haven't seen it, but she was in Babes last year, right, Yeah, Babes.

Was it bad?

I haven't seen it.

Oh no, I didn't love it, and she plays the same best friend character. It's not it doesn't center her quite as much, and.

So like, I just want to see her like in that way, even though I know she has figures. I'm like, give give the girl, and I rang it on Netflix movie. She's so funny. She carries a lot of these as the best friend, a lot of these roles.

Yeah, I feel like she has replaced like the Judy Greer best friend rom cos she has.

Kind of millennial Judy Greer, and much like Judy Greer, we must free her. She has so much talent.

She does.

As far as our nipple scale goes, where we raped the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, there's a lot to love and appreciate about this movie as far as represent goes of centering Asian American characters written by Asian American writers who are pulling from their own experiences, pulling from people they know, broadening the scope of the type of Asian

But you still get like all the rom com you know, itches scratched, where there's I thought that Ali Wong's wardrobe in this movie is fucking spectacular. Yeah, it has the visuals of a rom com. It has the fashion, it has the random big parties, it has.

You know, it is like.

An actual, real, real representation in a needed way, and also has a very familiar rom coom plot.

For sure, And it's one of the few rom coms it actually attempts jokes. I don't necessarily think all of them land that well, but like I was laughing many times, there's calm.

There's calm.

There's calm in the rom com and so many wrong coms don't actually have calm, which has always bugged me. But yeah, there's there's jokes in this and I appreciate that.

And also it has the thing that I love the most in all calms of the wrong is the big embarrassing moment. So like when she gets caught letting do in Your Day, Cam's character have it in the windows open and they can all hear. That's one of the cornerstones of all good rom comes.

You do, yes, you do need, uh that moment where everyone's like, pretty lady doing what scaring.

In front of children and you're scaring the goats.

I did laugh.

That was great.

That was funny.

But yeah, and again the thing about it not interrogating capitalism at all and kind of just being like, yeah, the only way that they that it makes sense for them to end up together is if the Marcus character sort of embraces capitalism.

Yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, when you put it that way.

I think I'll give the movie like three point seventy five for somewhere around their nipples, and I will give them to the goats at the party.

I'm gonna go I guess I'm gonna go thre I think I'm gonna go three. I mean, for all the reasons you just described, Caitlin, I was so nervous to come into that. Thank you for being perceptive to be really not rooting for this couple. But I do, I do agree. I mean, I obviously, I mean I'm I'm not Asian American. I have I see myself in rom

I think more people should break up. I love breaking up, normalize breaking up. People break up, please, Kia, how about you?

I'm going to also go three points eight five?

Oh, I know, groundbreaking, groundbreaking, Kia, Yes.

I think so because I just like it and I know that they have all their issues, but I really hope they make it. And also one of the nipples I'm gonna give to the dad because I just think I did appreciate that little friendship that they were like genuinely close, and he didn't do the thing where he pulled away after the mom died, because I hate that trop even more than I hate the dead mom Troke.

I love his dance too, right, And so.

I'm going to give another nipple to Michelle Bhutto because duh. And then my last nipple is going to be to the very quick scene where Ali Wong Sasha flashes herself. So then so then so that you can see her bro I just think it's so funny and I like cackled out loud. I just love it and I would love for them to work together again. And like again Randall Park, it just like that's sexy. Just shifted so much for me in terms of how I view him, and so I see him now, I'm like, heyvid hair O, well.

Nice, well, Kia, thank you so much for joining us once again. Come back anytime. You're always welcome back.

Please. I love it here.

What would you like to plug? Tell us where people can follow you and find your work?

Okay, you can follow me on Instagram at Kia k E A H Underscore, Maria m A R I A. I'm also on Blue Sky at Kia Brown at Blue Skot I don't shit. And if you're like on Facebook, I don't know who is anymore, but I do still have a Facebook page and it's the Kia Brown. I'm currently writing what I hope will read, my fourth book, Another Esthet. But you can always and please do purchase any of the three books that I have out right now.

Buy so many copies of Kiya's books to show her that you love her exactly.

My mom has a copy of Sam's Super Seeds in her classrooms.

Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy.

Yes, so also, I mean it's predicalar I'm a fan of all of your work, But if you have a teacher in your life, get a copy of sam Super Seeds for their classroom.

Yes, it's a great book. I'm biased, but it's right.

It's true, it's true, you're not wrong.

You can follow us at the place called Instagram if you must, please do.

It's the only place we are so if not there, you're gonna have a hard time keep it up, so head over there. You can also join us on our Patreon aka Matreon, and please do that too, where for five dollars a month, you can get access to two new episodes with Caitlin and myself doing a theam of sometimes You're Choosing Sometimes ours. It's a very sort of

We love you. Yes, so thanks for listening, and you listeners will always be our maybe babies.

Babies, I love you, babies, Bye bye bye.

The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Drante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by mo La Boord. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast