A Simple Favor with Cate Young

I'm happy to do it. And it's actually I'm going to actually tweet about it right now. That's totally fine, and I would I would be thrilled. Do you want to be friends? I haven't had an alcoholic beverage in years. Great, thank you so much, because we need to do that so that our listeners will be distracted when I commit murder. Oh for sure. Do you want to take karaoke? Yeah? I guess I had sex with my brother there. What a fun movie we're talking about today. I think that

that intro about as well as it could. Yeah, And I don't even know if I was like unintentionally doing a Blake Lively impression. But I feel like I kind of nailed it regardless. Oh yeah, I could like sense your elegant coat across the zoom call her outfits, her outfits in this movie. Good Lord, soul, good truly. Well. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Darante and this is our show. What if my name is actually Hope or Faith? Which one?

I don't know? Charity's many Charity, there's yeah, this root might be Claudia Secret. I could, yeah, there was. At some point, I'm like, this is we gotta pare it down. I'm getting confused. But this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point, which is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel. There are many

variations of the test. The one that we are using is the test requires that two people of a marginalized gender must have names and speak to each other about something other than a man for a two line exchange of dialogue, ideally more than that, and hopefully that exchange is narratively meaningful. Today we're not going to have many problems. No, no, we're not. No need to get into the weeds. Which is interesting because we are on a as we're just discussing off Mike, we're on a bit of a noir

kick right now. And the first noir we covered, uh, we had a lot of trouble, uh finding two women at all and getting it in the same room. You know, So you know what a difference almost eighty years may Yes, yes, So today's movie is a simple favor, and we have a magnificent guest joining us to discuss. She is a writer and culture critic. It's Kate Young. Welcome, thanks for having me. I'm so excited. We're so excited to have It's been a long time coming. We're thrilled to have you,

and we're really excited you brought us this movie. It's been a long time request. Since it came out, people have been yammering on about how we need to cover this movie. Sorry Kayle to hate star listeners. I mean I understand why, Like this is the movie that turned me around, like lively, Like I think the first time I watched it, I think I watched like a bootleg on my laptop, and I was like, this is incredible,

and I've seen it like five million times since then. Okay, so you're I was just we're just about to ask about your relationship with the movie. You're a fan. It's funnily now. It came out the same yeah, that I started listening to this podcast, and I was going to the New York Film Festival for the first time, and I was staying with a cousin in I think, like harl M and I wasn't doing anything except like going

to screenings and like watching TV on my laptop. I mean that was like the same year that like the first season of You was on Lifetime and no one was watching I'm cooler than everyone, but um it had come out, and I was just like, I don't really want to like figure out like a movie theem I like, you know secret and know all the bootleg sites. So I found a video and I watched it because I've been hearing such great things about it, and I was like, there's no way, like the Life is not a particularly

strong actress, there's no way this movie is good. And I watched it and I was like, this is the best thing I've ever seen in my life. Clearly like someone on her team has like figured out what her sweet spot is and like put her exactly in it, like they know how to find her, like just that specific kind of like b movie plot that is going

to play to her strengths. Like it's been a long standing like pet peeve of my ye that like she was a breakout star of Gossip Girl because rude, but this, I feel like this is the first thing that she's done. It's like kind of justified it. Like I really really love this movie. She is on the star. She completely makes it worth it. Like I don't think that anyone else could have done it the same way that she did.

I totally agree. I was. I guess. I guess I never really thought about I I didn't watch Gossip Girls it was coming out, um, which I don't know if I regret that or not, because I started to watch it for the first time over the summer and I was like, um, okay, interesting, interesting. I got to the Hillary Duff season and then I had to stop. That's gnarly. Now. That was a very specific moment in time. You had to be seventeen to appreciate it. Got Hillary Duff in

like fourteen Infinity scrves at once. I was like, this is a lot. I need to I need to slow. We're just we're just having three since with Vanessa. Well, I gotta watch this show. I guess it's pretty I mean, if you want to see everything happened, then this is the show to see it happen on. UM. But I I always associate her with Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. Oh right, that is the one other thing I've seen her in. I think that that was like maybe her

first thing, or like close to her first thing. I think so. Yeah, So I I always had pleasant associations with her because I was a pants head. I don't know what they're on that fandom. I was twelve. I liked it. Jamie, had you seen this movie before? What's your relationship with it? I had? I saw it, um. I didn't see it in theaters. I think I saw

it maybe the year after it came out. Someone sat me down and maybe watch it, and I really really enjoyed it, um, which I was kind of surprised that I enjoyed it because I wasn't a particularly big fan of Blake Lively or Anna Kendrick. I think just because I am theater kid resistant to some degree and so but but like you're saying, Kate, this movie actually turned me around pretty significantly on both of them, be because and and also I mean, I'm always thrilled to see

Henry Golding and so that was a treat. And then there's also like so many fun comics in this movie too, like a part in Intrelo is in it, Patty Harrison is in it. Like there's a fun supporting cast too. I liked this movie, and I was really especially after we had just done uh like classic noar. I was excited to go into like a very smart and funny modern noir. And I mean that's start to talk. I mean, I think I mostly just have like questions about this movie,

but I'm excited to talk about it with y'all. Caitlin went your history with this movie. I had not seen it. Oh. I remember all the buzz around it when it came out, and I had every intention of seeing it, but I just like never got around to it, and it kept slipping further and further down my list, and then I just never saw it. But I like, I'm glad that we're doing this episode to like have given me the excuse to have seen it because it was a very

interesting and challenging watch for me. I don't know what to make of this movie, and I'm going to need both of your help. I have a lot of thoughts about it. Yeah, I am very I don't know. It was just I'm not really sure what the intention of the movie is because it seems like it's asking the audience to empathize with Anna kendricks character by the end. But I'm like, but I don't, so, so what's what? Yeah? No, I uh. I also resent being asked to relate with

Anna Kendrick. I was. I was thinking about this today because I was eating a tuna sandwich in public, and I'm like, Ana Kendrick wouldn't do this, and I'm supposed to relate. I'm supposed to relate. I can I just have theater kid prejudice. It's fine. I like that she brings it's been because I didn't get that at all. Like, I mean, I don't dislike her by the end of the movie, but I like she's not person that I

gravitated towards. And I did not get the sense that the movie wants us to be on her side or to like her the best at all. That wasn't. Yeah, but like certain narrative and cinematic choices that are made makes me think that the movie is sort of asking that of you. But maybe maybe not, Maybe I'm just like misinterpreting. I don't, I don't know, but yeah, I'm excited to talk about that further. Yeah, I guess I wasn't really sure. I guess you would assume that you're

trying to connect with Anna Kendrick harder than Lively. But even so, like that didn't take me out of it. I was just like, these women are all over the place. Oh my god, um well let's should we get into it? Yeah, let's get into it. I will attempt to recap this very complicated movie. So we open on Stephanie. That's Ana Kendrick recording her vlog, which is directed at mom's. It might even be called like him M god, I love

I do like the vlogger commentary. I feel like, especially like I'm sure it will seem dated very soon and already a little bit. I'm like, oh, this old interface interesting. But Anna Kendrick is the perfect I mean, you could so see easily see her like pivoting to lifestyle content, and she's like one flop away from a lifestyle content career at any given moment anyways, And I say that with love, but like she she's got it, She's got

the cadence. So I love that her name and like her character's name is literally Stephanie's mother is, which is like her whole deal. I did appreciate that. So in her vlog she mentions the disappearance of her best friend Emily, who has at this point been missing for five days. Then we flash back to Stephanie and Emily played by Black Lively, meeting for the first time. Their sons go to school together. Stephanie is a stay at home mom. Her whole thing is that she's this like super mom.

Her flog is all about like recipes and how to make all these like cool. It's lively. It's mommy blogging, lifestyle, clicky, crafty food. And I think, Okay, I don't know if you have any knowledge on this, because I have occasionally gone down the mom mommy's vlogging from home hole, but I feel like this movie was maybe a little early, like in a good way early to mommy blogs pivoting

to true crime, which is definitely benefiting. I feel like, especially in Lockdown, so many people pivoted to true crime. I don't know, just because I'm not a true crime person, so I'm not super tapped into like what those people are doing. I know, as is your rights, I know. I'm just like, I'm like, just give me like podcasts about movies, like I don't want to hear about murdered woman. That's not fun. Same. I went through like a two

week phase in Lockdown. I went I mean everyone went through five two week phases in locked Down, but where I someone Someone came into my algorithm and then I just let her hang around for a while. Her name was Stephanie, and she was doing this these really long vlogs called like Coffee and true Crime, and it was like, oh and and they videos have millions of views. She was basically doing Ana Kendrick cosplay goodness. So Stephanie is

this super mom. Her son's name is Miles. She's also kind of like a goody two shoes, which is in stark contrast to Emily. She has a very high power, high stress job. She's very elegant and high class, but she's also very crass and abrasive. Her son's name is Nikki. Their sons want to have a play date, so Emily reluctantly invites Stephanie and Miles over to her amazing fancy house. They all live in Connecticut in one of the suburbs

of New York City. Ever heard of it? And then, like the other parents, including one played by a friend of the cast, a partner, Matla, they comment on how Stephanie and Emily like have nothing in common. They're like, what are they even going to talk about? But Emily and Stephanie get to know each other. Emily mentions her husband Sean, who is a writer who wrote a book like ten years ago. Who is Henry Golding? Yes, yeah, he shows up its own point and it's Henry Golding.

He's in Um, He's in Paul Fige's movie after this, right, the Christmas movie Last Christmas. Yes, but I don't think that's a Paul Fige movie. Maybe Paul fig just produced it or something. That was one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my entire life. By the way, No, he did direct Last Christmas. He did. He did, Yeah, and I was feeling out. No, he he did the end it also, and that movie also has a very chaotic series of claussmists that happened very very close to

other It's just less satisfying in that one. But Henry Golding us in a row, Paul Fie, it's a whole genre. Incredible. It's it's Leo DiCaprio being submerged in water in his clothes all over again. Remember that. Yeah, Oh my god, what an exciting day for us when we were I think I was like in a cabin in the middle of the woods and we were just screaming at each other over a poor Internet connection. Like it's all coming together. What a normal time. Okay, So we meet Sean. He

is a writer. He wrote a book like ten years ago that Stephanie has read and really liked. We learned that Stephanie's husband and brother died in a car accident, so she's a single mom now. Then one day Emily asks Stephanie if she can pick up her son Nicki and look after him until Emily gets home from work, and then she does. They hang out again. They drink Martini use they're loose, and they tell each other some secrets.

Stephanie reveals that after her father passed away, when she was eighteen years old, she met her half brother that she never knew that she had, and then she reveals that she had sex with him. See this is where I do connect with Anna kendricks character, and not in the way but car to clarify that the years where

I felt like representation mattered. No, I okay, very with you, but the whole like the dynamic and it's like, obviously very exaggerated because it's a noir and Anna Kendricks in the scene, so it's inherent I'm being so mean to her, but um, but the whole idea of like making a new friend who's a woman and being really swept up and like taken into a friendship and like immediately oversharing to an absurd degree and then having that be a

problem later. I had this problem before it revised me of like getting drunk in the park with a new friend and then being like, do you want to know the worst thing that's ever happened to me? And they're like, yes, I don't know. I love intense friendships, but they're scary. Yes, that aspect of her character is relatable. Yeah, I like it.

Others not so much. But when Emily, you mean When Emily learns this, she's like, oh my god, you brother fucker, which she says a million times throughout the movie, and she seems to revel in this juicy gossip. Yeah. Not long after this, Emily asks Stephanie to do her another simple favor. She needs Stephanie to pick Nikki up from school again until Emily gets home, except Emily never comes home that night. Stephanie calls Emily's office and learns that

Emily is in Miami for a few days. Sean is meanwhile overseas, but he comes back a couple of days later. He picks up Nikki, but there's still no word from Emily, so they decide to call the police, who start investigating Emily being missing. Stephanie also goes to Emily's office to do some digging. She finds an unflattering photo of Emily, which she then posts around town as a missing person's flyer, which is not me which to be fed to her.

It's because she doesn't have any other photos of her because Emily is very secretive about the fact that she is in hiding, which we don't know yet, but like won't let her take her photo exactly. Yes, is that a smart thing to do is like have someone in your life that's like, if I ever go missing, please use this picture. Yeah, I'm going to email all my friends be like I approved this image of me. I startally have very bad I mean, it seems suspicious to do.

It seems like you're about to disappear yourself. But I do think that there. I don't know. I think I just historically no one is ever picking a picture of me that I want them to. Yeah, I mean on the upside, well, I guess on the downside, if you're missing, you're probably dead, so you won't care. That's true love wringing my hands in the afterlife, being like, um, no, wonder they didn't find me. I'm much cute in that I did set my cousin to take over my Facebook

account if I die. So, oh wait, is that something you can do? Yeah? Interesting. Yeah, it's like they like they get access to it and they can memorialize it and like confirm that your dad and like get over your pathwords and let all your ship if you need them to. Huh. Yeah, that's we're in the future, aren't we. Fun? Morbid talk on the cast today. So much for not liking dead women anyway. Okay, so they've posted the flow fire.

They find out that Emily rented a Kia from an airport that the police are trying to track, and then a fan of Stephanie's vlog thinks she spotted Emily in Michigan, so they have kind of like a lead now. Also, by the way, with Emily gone, Stephanie and Sean have started to connect a bit more. They're getting closer, such as like Stephanie is like coming over and like cooking dinner for Sean and the kids. She makes a lot of very weird choices. Yeah, she really takes a turn.

Then Emily's body is found in a lake in Michigan, apparently she had drowned, and Stephanie and Sean mourn the loss of Emily, and then immediately after that they have sex with each other. We all grieve differently, you know. I was like I was gonna say, I was like, there's no one the wrong way to grieve, And if you're grieving involves having sex with Henry Golding, you could

do work. You've unlocked a new level of grieving. Um. One day, not long after this, Detective Somerville shows up and informs Stephanie that Emily had heroin in her system when she died, and that Sean took out a four million dollar life insurance policy on Emily before she disappeared, So all of this seems very suspicious, and also the audience is kind of wondering at this point if Stephanie had something to do with Emily's disappearance, because she's acting

a bit erratic, But either way, Stephanie starts to do some more digging and she and Sean keep getting closer. He asks her to move in with him. They tell

each other that they love each other. But then one day, Nikki mentions that he saw his mom, that she had come around to the playground at school, and there seemed to be other hints that maybe Emily isn't actually dead after all, including what appears to be Emily blackmailing Stephanie with the information that Stephanie had sex with her brother and that's why you don't get too drunk on the first friend date. And then Emily still being alive is

confirmed when she calls Stephanie on the phone. Emily knows that Stephanie Sean have like been having sex and that they're in a relationship. So now Stephanie is suspecting that Emily and Sean are working together to try to funck over Stephanie somehow. This is also around the time that

we get a flashback where Stephanie and Emily kiss. Then we learn of a relationship, a former relation ship that Stephanie had with a woman named Diana Highland played by Linda Cardellini, who had painted a number of nude portraits of Emily, except when Stephanie goes to her to like get some information, Diana is like, her name isn't Emily, her name is Claudia, and they had kind of a weird relationship where Emily had taken a lot of money

from Diana. And then also there is this like summer camp sweatshirt that is a clue that Emily might be from Michigan. So then Stephanie goes to Michigan to this summer camp, which leads to Emily's parents house. We meet Emily's mom, who was played by Jean Smart. Also around this time, Stephanie learns that Emily had a twin sister and that their real names are Hope and Faith. So Emily reappears and links up with Sean and he's all like,

what the hell? I always find it. I mean, it's fun to watch, but I'm like the fact that Stephanie continues to vlog through this experience of like it feels like we're leaving a lot of evidence like on I mean, not that people don't do that on on their vlogs. They do constantly, but it's it's just like she's really she's really laying it on thick end the vlogs I liked.

I mean that is like one of the I feel like stronger cool like themes through this movie that modernizes it is that like Stephanie is genuinely like getting something out of this trauma that is basically unrelated to her. She's like building like like we've seen unfortunately, like a lot of creators build themselves up based on the trauma of others. And it's like to some extent, I mean, it's also it is also happening to her, um, but it's just like, oh, yeah, this is actually something that

happens in the world. Yeah, she's like a exploiting her friend's disappearance to get more followers. She's leaning in, she's going for it. Well, I mean they're best friends. I mean, they only met like three times, but they're best friends. How I was trying to figure out what the how many times have they hung out before Emily disappears, because it seems like it might have been like four or five times. I think so because I think like the first time is I think when she tells her about

the brother bucking and she meets Henry Golding. Um, there's the flashback scene. I don't know, those are two different times. Yeah, yeah, those are two different times, So that's at least twice. The great Fard scene is after she disappears, so that doesn't count. And there's the one where they kiss, so and I think that's a separate time, so that's at least three times. It's at least three times, and that

might be it. Yeah, but Stephanie keeps being like we're best friends, and I'm not sure how much of that is like Stephanie not having much of awareness. I think

it's a word. Its like in the end when they pull this like big Gabbit, Stephanie says something to the fact of like you're not just saying that, but like you we really are best friends because I thought it was just me And then like goes yes, of course, Like I you know, I was feeling into and then she shoots are So it's like, I think that that was really fun for me, just because it's like in the same way that you guys are, like, she's doing a lot. I feel like that isn't like a feeling

that a lot of people have. That's very common to female friendships, where it's like am I coming on to strong? Do I like them enough? Do they like me enough? Like is this reciprocated? And like how to kind of navigate that, especially given the like queer overtones for the whole thing. It's really fun. Yeah, it is. Yeah, Okay, So Emily reappears. She meets up with Sean and a restaurant. He's all like, what the hell during this little hat? Yeah,

she's like very incognito. She's wearing sunglasses. Why was I so in love with her when she was wearing that hat? I was like, she's been so mean and she's wearing a hat. I love it. Sean is like, what the hell? I thought you were dead? And she's like, well, I

faked my death to collect the four million dollars. Keep up, John, but Stephanie keeps meddling in this whole situation and tells the insurance people that maybe the body they found is Emily's twin sister, that she's discovered that she had um. So then suddenly Stephanie and Emily meet up at Emily's grave site, but wearing good outfits yet again. But I'm like, how did they? I want to know what happened to like arrange this meet up? But anyway, there, oh was it?

Did she say like, I'm going to the grave. So she was like, I think there's the one where she was like, I'm going to go toast in your memory or something like that. Okay, yeah, right, got it? Yeah, because the flox slowly just become like it's she's cloud chasing, but she's also like, yeah, just talking the lively. Yeah. Okay.

So we find out that Hope, which is Emily's real name, and her twin sister, Faith, had burned down part of their parents house and had killed their father when they were teenagers because their father was abusive, and then after that they flee in part ways and they don't see each other for years and years, the two sisters until recently when they meet up. But Emily's sister is an addict. She needs money. She's trying to blackmail Emily, so Emily drowned her in the lake. Uh, and that's whose body

they find. But Emily tells Stephanie that the drowning was a suicide and that Sean was in on this plan from the beginning and that they were just using Stephanie to like take care of their song on until they were able to just like the insurance What a what

a long what a what a long con? What a risky long con to be like, oh, we just needed to exploit your labor, which is like there's that bit in the middle where Andreronald's like, it's like, oh, you're you took on the nanny position and she's like, no, we're friends. And then when she leaves, she goes she doesn't know she's freaking for free, right. I love that I forgot he was in this movie. Okay, so Emily

reveals all this stuff to Stephanie. But because Stephanie has like meddled in the whole insurance collecting thing, now everyone's kind of like at an impass where they like don't no one really knows what to do. So then Stephanie goes to Sean and Emily's house, Stephanie fake shoots Sean and and so doing tries to trick Emily into confessing to the murder of her sister, but Emily won't be so easily duped, and she actually shoots her husband Sean.

But it turns out that Stephanie was secretly live streaming the whole thing on her vlog, her tiny nanny Cam ty nanny Cam. Her vlog has gotten We've seen it like growing popularity throughout the movie, and so everyone was watching Emily shoot her husband. So she gets arrested. Then we get some text at the end that says that Stephanie's vlog was purchased by like a huge like publishing. Yeah, and she also takes on cold cases, so now she's

like a private eye kind of thing. Sean and his son Nikki are doing fine, and Sean moved to California and is now the head of the lit department at UC Berkeley wrote a second book, yeah, which is so funny. And then Emily is serving a twenty year prison sentence and has adjusted to prison life very well. And that is the end of the movie. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss and we're back where shall we start here? Where we want to start?

When we should just pick something out of a hat. At this point, there's something to do. There's truly we've we've we've got some ship to talk about. Um. I mean, I feel like we should just like start with the costumes because I feel like that's such such a big draw. Um. I mean, obviously the main focus in terms of like the visually striking costumes are with Emily and like Lively,

and it was definitely a big draw to me. I think that was part of what drew me into that character specifically, and part of why I don't think we're supposed to like Stephanie that much, because I feel like it's it's like the same issue that I had with like what is it Mrs American Hulu or whatever that came last year, Like you don't give me like a super offend diva and like great costumes and then tell

me to root against her. Doesn't work that way, right, um? So, So I love I loved all of the suits and like how stylish they are and like the way that they were able to kind of construct these like really

feminine lines with like traditionally male attire. But I also really liked how they were able to kind of contrast that with these this like two sections of her life because she's in these suits when she's like dealing with Emily, and that's kind of not with Emily with Stephanie, and that's part of my Stephanie is like so enamored with her and think she's so cool that wants to be her best friend, because like, obviously so do I. But but like she's not dressed like that when she finally

meets up with this sister before she kills her, or like when she meets up with the husband to tell him that she's still alive, or even at the very end when they're doing this big gambit, Like there's such a huge contrast between the suits she wears in the beginning of the film and like this like fifties housewive get up that she has on when she's turned up and told them that her husband tried to murder her.

Because she's essentially doing like white woman in Peril cosplay like very effectively, and like the knowledge that she has of like how to kind of I'm not sure that manipulate is the right way, but to like situate herself in relation to other people, Like she is nearly always overdressed, like in every scene, and it still doesn't feel like out of place. And I know, for me, like what I thought was really fun is that I think it's the first time that Stephanie comes over where the boys

are there. She's making her and meet Martini, and she starts undressing and like pulling the pieces of the suit apart, and you realize that it's not at all actually it's just pieces put together to look like a suit, and so it's like a metaphor for her whole life. It's like this big, fancy, beautiful thing, but it's really just

like a trick meant to confuse you. And I really enjoy that aspect of it a lot, because I felt like she has so much like swagger, and I feel like I don't know how to expand I keep trying to tell people, like like I I have decided for myself that like eye contact is gay, but there's not

actually a ton of it in this movie. But she does have like a very she does have like a very masculine sagger, which I find very attractive, and that's like aided by the costuming um and the walking stick that she uses for some reason later in the film, which she apparently stole from Paul Feek, like on the day of the shoot. Yeah, it's his. I think she's doing some interview and she was like, I just decided I wanted it. I asked him for it and he

told me fine. And I really love that I And I like that it's like something that she's very aware of because I think once we get through the plot and we deal with like the Linda Carline character and everything, like, it becomes very clear that she's a person who's like reinvented herself a lot, and like this is just the latest iteration of that this is the persona that suits her current life. Yeah, I totally agree. And that's like better put than I ever could have done with costume analysis,

So thank you. And I also, I mean, I also felt like a lot of I mean Blake Livelis costumes specifically because I feel like they're really given Anna Kendrick the full target very intentionally, um for the entire movie until the very end. But I I like, I feel like Blake Lively's wardrobe also reminds you that this is a noir movie all the time, because her outfits are

definitely like referencing the forties and fifties. I mean, especially in that last scene when she's like, you know, being the devil and wearing a house like a Donna Reed dress, and like, I just I don't know, I think I'm just like in the noir zone right now. But I really appreciated how that, like the references to the genres origins were made even through the costuming, which was kind

of cool. And that actually that brought me to I'm wondering if I'm missing anything, but there did seem to be and maybe it's still happening and I just don't realize it. But there were three noir movies with with

these kind of fem fatale characters modernized. They came up within five years of each other that just had all these similarities, and I don't know if it's anything, but I was just like, this is so bizarre where this movie came out in Uh, there was a lot made of like, oh, this belongs to the like urra of Gone Girl and Girl on the Train, and then this is like the comedy flavor of that kind of modern film Fatale in a simple favor and there's Um and I like a simple favor and gone Girl. I didn't

like the Girl on the Train. That's my business. But there is like a lot of similarities even in the production of those movies, where I feel like part of what makes them different is that they're all adapted from books by women, they're adapted into screenplays by women, and they're all directed by kind of like legacy mail directors UM,

which I don't I don't know. It feels like an interesting kind of like half depth um in the way that we talked about a lot of the time where I was really happy to see that all three of these movies were written by kind of like seasoned female screenwriters.

And also I was like, oh, but they all were directed by a very famous men, which I guess is the only way you can get a movie made stuff right, because I mean, we talked about on the recent Double Indemnity episode about how, despite some efforts to reclaim the fatal character, ultimately that archetype was men think women are scary, whereas these like you know, neo noir, way more recent you know, crime thrillers are especially the ones that you cited, Jamie,

are stories that are crafted by women. So they're taking some tropes of the genre that feel familiar but subverting them or updating them. Yeah, like less mental gymnastics too to get there, but um right, which makes for far more interesting and nuanced characters, especially the women in the movie. I like. Okay, So for Stephanie and Emily, I mean, there's so much to talk about regarding their friendship. There's so much to talk about regarding them. Is just like individuals.

I don't know, I don't even know where should should We just like start with Stephanie and then we'll just go from there. I don't like trying to figure out what the order or what like the order of operation is here? Right? Yeah, so Stephanie, um thoughts, I like know what Okay, let let me just pose this question to start. Did Stephanie kill her dad? And did Stephanie kill her brother and her husband? That is what I was thinking for a large chunk of the movie. She

did not kill her dad or her brother or her husband. Okay, I was like, wait a second, Yes, her dad died and he either had a previous son or a secret son bat part son clip. But she has a half brother who showed up to the funeral or the wake or the whatever, and then she slept with him and her son is very probably her brother's yes, and her husband was like, you guys were too close. It's kind of a weird. And then he was mad about it and was like, let's go handle this like men. And

then they go too car accident, died. Yeah. I thought that was just the traumatic backstory for her. I'm pretty I'm pretty sure, right, did they miss something? I don't think she killed she didn't know. Yeah, she didn't kill them. They just died doing men things. That's a wild theory, though, I that's my theory. I think that Stephanie is not as innocent as she seems. And maybe I was just thinking this because he just sucking her. She's she was

sucking her brother famously. She was, yeah, and they kept showing you and she's loving it. Oh my gosh. There's a chunk of the movie where you aren't sure how culpable or not Stephanie is, because there's a little bit where you're kind of it's kind of vague, it's open to interpretation. You're wondering, like, wait a minute, did she have something to do with the disappearance of her supposed best friend that pretty quickly seems to fizzle out as

more information comes out. But I think maybe it was just like during that chunk of time where I was like, Wow, she seems really guilty. Does this mean she also killed all of these family members? And then I just kind of like ran with it. But okay, so so I guess Stephanie isn't a murderer. Um, yeah, give her time.

I mean I I liked a lot of the commentary that was being done through Stephanie's character where I feel like sometimes it's like she definitely is a type that I feel like most people who have met a you know, a white millennial mom will recognize, which is like she is a lot. She's doing the most. There is like she's not coming from a bad place, but it is from a very like vibrating insecurity. She is extremely online,

but it's very curated and very fake. But also on top of that, like I feel like sometimes you'll see that archetype presented and then kind of just be like, yeah, let's make fun of this person. She fucking sucks, and this movie doesn't do that. This movie gives her background. It also says like, yeah, she is this it almost reminds me of oh God, not me quoting a Beau Burnham song Jesus Christ, but like the like she's a

very very like. She's a whatever quote unquote basic woman who has trauma and has like a backstory and has um more to her than meets the eye on this

punishingly boring vlog that she has. And I liked that story choice where it seems like the writing in this movie it doesn't let her off the hook for um a lot of the I mean, and and ultimately especially at the end where I was a little unclear and like, and I guess it's just like open interpretation, but how the movie wants you to feel about her, Like sinister true crime blog getting bought out by Conde Nast, I'm like, I don't feel like that's really a win for for

the culture. But but as a girl boss capitalist, you know, really thrilled for her that she gets to exploit people's death on YouTube every single day. But um, I don't know. I mean, I feel like the movie doesn't let her off the hook but also gives her an appropriate depth. So I liked she has written. I didn't like her particularly, but I but I don't know, like you were saying earlier, Kase, I don't know how much we're supposed to really like

like her, but I was interested. Yeah. I think the thing with Stephanie is that she is like aggressively normy, but it read to me like it was very much like a front to cover the brother fucking, which I think is part of why, like Emily is so delighted when she admits that, because she's like, I thought you were this like super boring housewife, and you're way more

interesting than that. And it's like a thing that she's ashamed of, obviously, but it's also something that she feels like it's maybe more true to she actually is, and so she has to do this like very aggressive performance of like normativity to hide that side of herself. And I think that the thing that connects her and Emily is that she kind of sees that, like Emily is very like cards on the table, like I'm in debt,

hate my husband. Isn't that fun? And she like enjoys how much that puts people off, because like we don't generally just air our laundry out like that, um, And I think for her, like getting getting Stephanie to kind of return the favor almost is like delightful to her because she didn't think that there was anything there. Yeah. I found the way the two main characters and like how they were written and how they were characterized to

be interesting. And I mean the layers that keep getting healed back, the information you keep learning about each one because Stephanie, Yeah, you learn this thing that she committed an act of incest at least once, maybe most. It might be suggested that it's like an ongoing scene. It's only half incest. It's I was also. I mean that's like a gutsy move to involve an incest plotline in like a Paul Feig movie. Right, it's because I feel like it never really registers. Is like as potentially gross

as it actually is. It feels like the movie kind of down plays it. I mean because the brother I don't think has any lines except maybe like one right before he dies. Right, maybe he doesn't know. I think he might just signal to her like it's all good. Yeah, I guess you don't really get to know him, not even at all. It's like a nonentity, Yeah I do. I mean it's like and and obviously that's a very very serious issue that this movie isn't equipped to handle.

But I wasn't like particularly upset with how It's like, well, yeah, if you're going to include that in this movie, you gotta like skirt around it, like we don't have in a movie like this to tackle an issue of that magnitude. Yeah, I feel like it puts it in in in a way where Emily's reaction is appropriate, where it's like, not, oh my god, that's incest, but oh my god, you're so dirty. That's really fun, right right, because that's how she would see it, Yeah, which is bizarre. It is,

I mean, it's definitely bizarre. I'm also like, if if there were viewers who were like that was fucked up, I totally understand why they would feel that way. Also, apparently that is like even and again, this is not a podcast we would where we would ever read read a book. We can say it for half a decade. But apparently in the book that is far more of an element in the book, and it was actively and intentionally scaled back for this adaptation, which I think I

wonder why. Yeah, Like that's I think a smart move if they absolutely had to include that plot point I feel like they handled it about as gracefully as you could, but there's no graceful way to handle an incest plot line, so right, I'm just like, what function does this serve exactly? Besides like giving I guess it gives Emily leverage to

blackmail Stephanie when she needs to. And then it also just like cluse the audience in two Stephanie not being nearly as innocent as she wants people to believe she is, like this persona that she puts on. I mean, there couldn't be a more extreme example of right right, So yeah, I find that all very fascinating in a way that like a lot of movies wouldn't dare tackle something like that, just isolating Stephanie alone, Like she's such a challenging character

to analyze for sure. I mean I feel like it definitely is a case of like you can, but should you? And the answer in this case is I don't know. I don't know, but I am always um, whatever this is I guess my second and third time seeing this movie, but every single time you're like, oh, right, that is also like an Ana Kendric character, Like it's just so wild. I feel like I can't. Maybe my brain has a hundred percent process that they made that choice. I've had

plenty of time to process it. But it's so fun too, because I feel like in this movie, she's like Ana Kendrick is slaying exactly to type, like she's the exact this is the exact character that you think that she would be in real life if you were just making it up, Like it's so aggressively like the it's a kod energy like you were saying before, like it doesn't there's nothing new, Like I feel like all of the while ship that happens in the movie with her, it

stops feeling wild because you're like, oh, yeah, of course she would do that. And so I guess if you said that precedent, you're like, oh, well, what could do anything at any time. It's like, yeah, I wonder if her character is canonically the character she played in the Twilight saga, because she was around so many like like this weird vampire family of like kind of brothers and sisters dating each other. So she's just like this is normal, right, true,

she's carrying it over from her Twilight experience. She's like, Oh, I've been around this dynamic and um, you live long enough anyway, it's right, okay, okay. But then even after you learn that information about her back story, more and more layers keep being peeled back of, like her showing her true colors or like what she's capable of, and

you know, because she's very mettlesome, she's very sneaky. There's that scene where she talks back to Emily's boss and like calls him like a bargain basement tom fordered and like tacky and says all these really bitchy things and which is a very funny, but we're like, oh my god, I didn't you know, we didn't know she was capable

of that. But she like firecracker, like one after the next, and you wonder like channeling Emily there too, which again is just like the the intense friendship element of this movie is so like friendship. And then some like elements of this movie are so appealing to me because you're like, oh, like like when you're in a new intense friendship, you're like, yeah,

I want to be this person. I would like, let me see if I can like single white female them in this moment, you know that classic gay impulse of like do I want to be with her or to be her, to conceive her into my being. And I feel like that kindaic is like fully on display and

as well, right, and I love it. Which I'm also curious about your thoughts on that aspect of their relationships, specifically because there's that scene we get the flashback towards the end of the you know, it's like quite a ways into the movie where they kiss, and it's after Stephanie has revealed that she feels responsible for the death

of both her husband and her brother. You know, she's crying, and that leads to this kiss between her and Emily and then they both kind of like brush it off, is like, oh, I'm embarrassed, and then Emily's like, oh,

no big deal and just another Tuesday for me. And I thought that was like setting up a different ending for the movie that they would actually like join forces and interesting exploit maybe like Sean and like because they do kind of like try to send him off to jail, but then but then the where that's under consideration, but

it lasts about thirty seconds. It's confusing. Yeah, it's because I feel like the movie it's it's very gay and its sensibility but it's also like aggressively heterosexual in a lot of ways, and it's kind of hard, Like I feel like they do look ad job of balancing those two things, because in my mind this is a gay film, but it's not actually all that gay, no, like if you really think about it, and like everyone's endings are

very normally and heterosexual. Although to be fair, I'm not sure if they say that Stephane is dating someone from the city or a guy from the city, so if it's just somebody that it could be a lady, you don't know. But I think in general, like it definitely

frames these relationships, is like transactional romantic heterosexual relationships. And that moment between Emily and Stephanie, I'm honestly not even sure what to make of it, except for the fact that because like Emily at least we know is like at least by curious because she has its previous relationship with Linda Carle name, Yeah, I think that she I mean, And then she also mentions that, like she had a relationship with the with the female ta at some point

I think bisexual, So there you go. So for me, and it makes sense that she is kind of like because I think a lot of what Emily is doing too is like all of her relationships are about like power and the exchange of power, even if they're not actually sexual. And so I think for in that moment, it's very much like I don't do like hugs and comfort and whatever, but I can't do sex, and sex is power. So it's the same thing. Well that got

me wondering. I think her sexuality is not super clear because as even though it suggested that she had a romantic relate or at least like a sexual relationship with Linda Cardelini's character, I interpreted that as Emily basically just like exploiting that situation for money, because Linda Cardelini is like, yeah, I paid her way through college and then and it seemed like a very one sided relationship where she was like I was like she was the best sex I

ever had, and like she was my muse and I painted her and it was great and da dada. But then Emily just like bailed and abandoned her. And but then it's like Emily does that to men as well, Like it seems like she's an equal opportunity like bailor just a chaos bisexual it's awesome. Yeah, Like, I don't think that that precludes her from being bisexual, if that she's a shitty girlfriend, A stronger case I wanted to

bring up there. There was a fun piece I read about this movie on a website called into more dot com called but how Gay is a simple favor. It was a fun and useful tool written by a writer named Kevin O'Keeffe, and he references a trope that I don't know if we've ever addressed on this show before. He does not make the argument that Emily. He's kind of ambiguous of whether he thinks Emily falls into this trope. But it's just one that we haven't talked about that

I feel like is often pulled into a FM fatale character. Um, which is the depraved bisexual trope. Have we talked about this before? Kay? I don't think so. The depraved bisexual trope? Okay, let's get into it. Um, I thinking whales are turning? This was new to me also, I might be into it right. And then once you hear the characters that are referenced, I'm like, okay, I understand what is being referenced here. It was first brought up by a writer named Devin Price in the Year of the Simple favor

Um that we can link in the description. I was just curious on both of your thoughts on this, So, quoting from Devin Price's piece, quote, A depraved by sexual is a character, usually in a work of fiction, whose bisexuality is used as an indicator that they are untrustworthy, perverse, and morally corrupt. They are often depicted as impulsive, even unstable, or mentally ill. Deprave bisexuals are not merely attracted to some women and some men. They are salacious and undiscriminated,

perhaps willing to fuck anything that moves. Their sexuality and the narrative is the source of distraction and corruption. They are often depicted as having explosive emotions and a deep streak of hedonism and other animalistic urges because they cannot quote unquote decide on a gender to be attracted to. As the logic goes, they also cannot say no to anything sexual or pleasurable. And he kind of proceeds to break this down character by character. He references shared Stone

in Basic Instinct. He references Poison Ivy in Batman, the animated series. I don't know, I just it was not a trope I had come across before. And the writer Kevin O'Keefe is not making an argument that Emily is depraved by sex, because I think that there is like more to her than that, But it was just not something that I had encountered before. I mean, it's describing

a trope. I feel like depraved as a strong word, but I would argue yes, only because I feel like the I am familiar with the idea that like bisexual means you can't choose and you'll do anything with anyone, and like I don't agree obviously, but I was on I was on the Quite Quad podcast a couple of weeks back, and we talked about the movie UM Side Effects with Rooney Mara and Katherine Zada Jones, and they

are also bisexual. It's great UM, And one thing I talked about on that show is this idea that like it's not like great representation of core people for them to be like villains doing like bad things, but also like that's the most fun, Like I'm always on the side of the bisexual doing chaotic things, Like I'm always on their side. I'm always going to choose them, like I don't or if you murdered your husband, Like maybe

he deserved it. That's not my problem, like I and so like I'm leaning towards like, yes, she falls into that trope. I just don't mind because like I just feel like crevalents are always more fun, Like there's a reason, like so many of them have been reclaimed over the years, Like especially when you put those characters and other characters are either explicitly quit or coded quite in the context of like the persecution that they face in the world.

It's like, why wouldn't they go a little hog wild and like do someings where it shipped to people like they deserved to the world's miserable right, And that's like all of the characters that this trope are attributed to our beloved character exactly. So it's like it is, it is complicated, but I did I just had never. Um, I guess i'd never like read the agency of like conflating bisexuality with I mean, because the chaanic bisexual walks

among us, the chaotic everyone walks among us. Um. But but in like in fiction, um, inflating that and the stereotypes that you know incorrects marginalizing stereotypes associated with bisexual people and how that translates to their to their chaos. It was like, oh, this is new to me, and it does seem like Emily falls into this trope to some degree. But I also really like that character, So yeah, you know, I feel like it's a little cuspy because

like she is bisexual and she is chaotic. But I also feel like the movie in general, it's not that sexual.

Like all of the sex, I feel like it's implied, other than the one sex scene of a brother, but other than that, like it's it's very much like an implication, like you're supposed to feel that the characters are sexy as opposed to that they are having sex necessarily, and so I I don't get that like that there's a direct connection between her desire for or engaging in sex as directly related to the crimes she does, Like she kills her dad because he's abusive, and then she like

does a gone girl on herself because they're deeply in debt any money, Like she didn't None of that stuff is like because I'm trying to trap a man or trap a woman for that matter, Like they're all like practical consideration her like fem fatale motivation is all based

in like class issues and money problems. It isn't like, you know whatever, we just did the double Indemnity episode of like I don't like my husband, I'd like for him to disappear, which is like, I don't hate that motivation either, But this is like a very like same practical motivation at the end of the day, which I thought was kind of cool that this movie doesn't really like whack you over the head with it, but they do like address class to some extent at the beginning,

with Stephanie, you know, being the I mean like she's they're a middle class target family, like they're okay, but she's talking about, you know, how she has to live off of her her dead husband's life insurance, and how there's a lot of budgeting, a lot of money stress associated with maintaining her son's quality of life. And then you learn about all the Lively debt and just I don't know, it's it's always cool to hear money talked about,

kind of frankly in a movie, especially like a genre movie. Wait, going back to sex really quickly, which is the best transitioned little sentence I've ever said, Um, come to think of it, the sexually charged moments in the movie that you see, like, for example, when when Emily is having sex or implied to want sex from her husband because there's a scene in the airplane after she revealed that she stole his mother's ring Chaos, and then he's like,

what the fund did you? Like? It was a horrible thing for you to do, and she's like, ha ha, shut up. Also come into the bathroom and have sex with me. So she's like almost using sex is like a distraction because she does it again after she like reappears and is like, surprise, husband, I'm not dead after all, and she like pretends to shoot him with like a gun that isn't loaded, and then she's like t he he I'll be in the bathroom, coming in twenty seconds if you want to have sex with me. Um. I

honestly was like rooting for her in that moment. I was like, what give me the confidence to do that? For one minute? Because how could you not? I know, like you do want to like in those moments, I'm like, I wanna I want to be her in that moment. I want to be the person that steals a ring. And then it's like, don't worry just have sex when you'll forget all about it, you know. But well, compare those moments where she's like clearly using sex as like

a manipulation tactic. Compare that to the kiss that she shares with Stephanie, which feels, at least it felt to me like it was way more authentic and tender. You could make the argument that it's also manipulative on sure Emily's part, maybe also Stephanie's part. Hard to say, because both of these characters are very complicated and sneaky, and they're both like different degrees of fatale, which is kind of fun to have, like right, right, Yeah, there's like

opposites of each other in a lot of ways. I feel like, so maybe I'm going back on what I like because I wasn't sure the authenticity to Emily's bisexuality, but now I'm like, wait, maybe she is perhaps even more attracted to women because of that scene versus again, like when we see her having sex with her husband, it's always like to trick him or like distract him.

I mean, I can't speak to her kinsey scale, but I do think she's definitely fIF actual Yeah, I think right, But I agree, I think that that I think that that moment that she has a Stephanie is since I mean when I was watching it again for to prep for this podcast, one of the things that I noticed is that one because it is a lot longer than like just a moment, and too, they both like move their hands up to each other's heads to engage further,

and it's Stephanie that pulls away, like they're both into it. And I think that that's part of the fun of the movie, is that in another scenario, if like Emily hadn't pulled this off or tried to pull the scam like, they probably would have been very close. I think that they each saw each something in the other that like spoke to the side of them they weren't comfortable showing

the rest of the world. And in that moment, now that they kind of like had each other's secrets, it was it allowed them to have this closeness that wasn't

available to them before. Like sure Stephanie was sucking her brother, but like she also talked about the fact that after they had died, like she hadn't slept with anyone, she hadn't been dating, she was too intimidated to go into the city or something like she she's alone and she is finally opening up about this like presumably like very shameful thing in her past to this woman that she just met, and that kind of like forced intimacy I think,

like really did bond them. And I think the that Emily would not have come after Stephanie if Stephanie had just stopped meddling, right right. But then I also am like,

but maybe Emily, like I don't know. I ultimately it's like I I you can't really Emily, is It's really hard to know who if Emily has a genuine feeling for really anybody except for her, like that's really the only person that you can guarantee, Like she really loved her son and would not kill him, but anyone else, like she could kill anyone else in her life except for her son, who loves to say fuck her son says every scene very cute kid um, I forget where

this is going. Oh oh that line from Stephanie that like broke my heart, and I feel like justifies, not justifies, I guess contextualizes a lot of her behavior and why she goes so like has I think, you know, a very outsized reaction to the things that are happening to her sometimes where it's just like sometimes with Stephanie, you're like, just do nothing, Just go home, you know, like what

just go home. But she says that thing where she says like, I think loneliness probably kills more people than cancer, and you're like, oh my god, Like she her motivation is to some extent to have an honest connection with someone, and so it's like when she feels that she has that with Emily and then is betrayed, and then feels like she has that with Sean, which is like, well,

what did you think was going to happen? And then is betrayed, It's like, of course that's going to like spin her way the funk out because her like core motivation is to make a meaningful connection with someone that she can trust and is clearly not dealing with her grief in a meaningful way and has been through so much and I don't know, I mean, like, I don't know, Stephanie is such a weird character, but that that line really got me good. I was like, God, she's just

she's just really unhappy. She's really really unhapp be And so at the end when she starts a like True Crime Empire. I'm like, mm hmm, but has she grieved likes she you know, I hope that she's like got a good therapist now that she's got that Conde Nast money,

because she could be headed down a dark road. It's wunny to say that about connection, though, because I think that that is something that she's getting from the True Crime Empire, because like, especially now that we've like the way that it kind of has metastasized online, like through TikTok. Now especially like people aren't just being like, oh, isn't that like an interesting story, Like did you hear about it? It's like, now like we are the slopes. We will

solve it. Even though these are people like that you've never met. You don't you're not involved in the case. You're like finally in states away. But I think people feel not just connected, but like this like very not good impulse to like get involved in stories in a certain way. And I think that you're right that she's like ahead of that in the sense that that's exactly

what she does in this film. Like there was multiple pool times in this movie where she could have simply said, like this is kind of weird, I think I'm gonna like bounce, and she just doesn't because she has to have answers. She has to go sleeping, Like she dips her kids off with like who whomever the fuck and like parts off to go like investigated some camp, like no one should get you there, Yeah, no one sent you.

But she's like spending the money that she can't afford really because her husband's insurance money is running out to like rent cars and go across the country to like figure out what's happening, like sneaking into her parents house to figure out what happened to her and her sister. I know she's sneaking into Jeane Smart's house. Yes, it doesn't have anything to do with her, Yeah it is. I mean it is fucked. And I feel like something

that they're also engaging with. And maybe someone mentioned this earlier, is she's like majorly capitalizing on as is you know, Gone Girl and I think Girl on the Train, I don't really remember that movie very well, but like capitalizing on missing white woman's syndrome and get people very involved with this like traditionally beautiful missing white lady and like capitalizing on it and building an audience based on it, and I don't like it's I wish I kind of

wish that the movie said that a little more explicitly. But I mean that's like definitely what is happening. I don't know. Yeah, Stephanie is very complicated, Like ultimately I'm not rooting for her, but like, what a wounded what a wounded soul? My god, But she should have just gone home at some point. Yeah. I like the like Gone Girl comparison, just specause. I mean I feel like that's kind of like the epitome of that genre or like that little mini genre that was happening at that time.

But it like, to me, Stephanie is I think her name is Casey Wilson and Gone Girl the next door neighborhoods. We were best friends. I know what happened to her. Her husband killed her. You have to listen to me, like steps that character, except that this movie is from her perspective, and so it's like two who ends of the same the same story, but we're getting the like meddlesome neighbor who's sucking it up instead of the one

who's trying to scan the money. And I think that's really fun just because in both situations like they're they're both white women and they're both people. Like I think it's some of something that like Sara Marshalls has a lot and you're wrong about that, like the justice system is like constructed to protect her, or like white women

in general ostensibly even though it really isn't. But and so like in the same way that that Emily is leveraging her white womanhood to kind of build this story that she is in danger and that someone has harmed her and and to to to mobilize people to to save her, Stephanie's doing the same thing. It's just from

a different part of the story. Like it's not just that she is looking for her friend and her friend is the white person, because I don't think that that it's Stephanie was not a white woman that her blog would blow up in the same way. I think that it's because she is also a white woman who is domestic and serene and you know, lovely and feminine that

vaguely religious. Yes, Yeah, there's even a part where like Linda Cardalini is like, oh, I could paint you you you seem so pure like a saint, and you know she's like talking about her perceived innocence that like, clearly people are latching onto because by the end of the movie, her blog, her vlog has over a million subscribers, precisely, and because all of these people who are watching these blogs, like they don't know Emily, They've probably never seen a

photo of her except for that one raggedy one that she pulled out from Cotton Knows where, Like they don't know this person, they only know her there. She is the one that they're connecting, right, And it's precisely for those same reasons. I didn't even think that, like, yeah, you don't even have a picture of Emily, so you have to fully rely on Stephanie's own like persona in

order to buy in too. And she is like she's fully playing a character in those videos, like I mean the way that any of us do to some extent, but like she's really she's I mean, she's really going

for it. It's it's so And I did think it was like an interesting detail that her audience becomes engaged enough that that is what takes her to Michigan in the first place, because that is also something we see all the time, is like the online detective is getting way too involved, and then you're like this seems dark, this is sucked up, and then they solve something and you're like, oh my god, what No, you're breaking my brain. Um, I don't know. Yeah, it's I just that's how I

feel about Brittany. Yeah, you're just like I mean, And there was in the Gabby Petito case as well recently where it was like TikTok made a breakthrough and you're like, guys, stop, you're confusing me. Like, I think it is inherently like it comes from a good place, but but there's there's some darkness there and it's I don't know what's confusing, right, Yeah, it's like, I mean, I know we had there was that like a week when everyone was like para social

relationships and they were whining about it. But like, I think in some way, like this true crime thing is an extension of that, because it's not just like, oh, there's a there's a mystery and we're going to solve it, even though we're like some rounded personal on TikTok, it's like, there's a mystery and we're going to solve it, and we're going to ascribe motives to the players in the story.

That we do not know and do not have information about based on what are very likely to be like raised in class assumptions about people to fit what is likely to be a very set true crime frame. Like I think they even say, like in the film, in the movie, there's a video she does, or she's like, oh no, I know you guys think that it's like always the husband, but it's not. He's very nice, like we're best friends. And it's like, yeah, but that's because

it usually is the husband, but it obviously wasn't. It wasn't in this case. But if we were going strictly on like what is the framework of a true crime story, it would be him because it's always the intimate butt now. And I think that like when we are dealing with real life stories, it's like we are not good at separating like the general likelihood based on statistics and like

the specific information. And like I I personally like didn't follow the Gappytito case because I was like, I'm uncomfortable with like how much speculation is happening based on our little information, But like you can't you can't say that, you can't be like, sure, this guy seems sketch, but that's not proof of anything, because then you all of a sudden, you're like and you know you're you're on the side of a murder, and it's like, I don't

know that he murdered anyone. I don't know anything about this case. It's yeah, it's it's extremely extremely complicated, and just because it is like maybe statistically likely, doesn't mean that you should automatically default to ruining someone's life over it before you have enough information. And I mean it's I mean, we don't have to talk anymore about Gabby Petito case in particular, but it's it is like we

haven't figured it out. That's for funing sure, um and it is like it makes me uncomfortable to um engage in it because of what you're saying. Case. It's like because people are making Yeah, it's real people and the internet at large and people at large are always going to default to very race and class based assumptions about people that can truly like destroy someone's life. And also a lot of women are killed by their intimate partners.

It's just like so complicated, and this movie makes it funy Uh, let's take another quick break and then we will come right back and we're back. Can we talk about Henry Golden's character, because he was also very complicated of a character in terms of like he's met. Yeah,

there's like suggestions that he's maybe having an affair. We see him more or less gas lighting Stephanie when she's like it seems like maybe Emily is alive, and he's like, let me just call the psychology department because you seem cuckoo bananas. Um. You know, there's these different things. But then also he does really seem to love his wife and like want the best for her. But he's also to me, he feels like an unreliable narrator who's not

the narrator. I guess just he's an unreliable character because I'm like, how much does he know? How much is he involved in this scheme? Like whose side is he on? Is he on anybody's side? There's like a lot of But I almost wish we understood better what his situation was, because I just left with a bunch of questions about him.

I don't know. I mean, I feel like he's hard to read, and like, now that I've seen it a couple of times, it's more obvious to me that he isn't involved in genuinely doesn't know anything, but if you're watching it for the first time, like, it's very easy to think that he's in on it and gaslighting her.

Because the thing that the one thing that I will say in defense of him is that I don't think that he was gaslighting Stephanie only because he genuinely believe his wife was dead and so he was wrong, but he wasn't trying to trick her. It wasn't intentionally Okay, yeah, yeah, So that that's the one thing I was in defense of him. On the other hand, I think that it is very suspicious, and I think the movie plays on that that he is just really real happy about moving on,

Like it does not take him two seconds. He's like less moving like I want to be with you. You're the person that makes me the one the man that I want to be And I'm like, girl, like your your wife just died. Slow down for two seconds. Like

he is very sketched. And also feel like that's not very considerate of her either of like yeah, and like on the one hand, it's like men do that they're very bad at being alone, but on the other she's literally her best friend maybe chill for two seconds, because like, I don't know what the timeline is on this movie,

but it does seem very fast. It does. Yeah, And again that's what makes it all the wilder than it's like, Oh, it does seem like Stephanie is sharing all of these details with her vlog audience that really like, if I whatever, we're all there. But if I were like moving in with my quote unquote best friend who I've only met five times, by the way, but it was really intense five five hangouts. Um, but like, if you're moving into

I would not tell anybody. I would not tell anyone much less because anyone who wanted to know, because at one point she does her vlog from Emily and Shawn's kitchen and anyone who's like paying attention and be like whose kitchen are you in? Like why? But yeah, that they both needed to just simmer down a bit. But um, but then it also is like, again I don't want to, but it's like Stephanie is so motivated by being deeply lonely that I feel like it's also like Sean and

it's I couldn't tell. I was like, does Sean know her well enough to know that he's kind of like triggering something in her by pushing this relationship for it so quickly, it doesn't seem like he does know enough. I feel like he just doesn't know enough information about anyone. He doesn't. I feel like he doesn't he doesn't know where any better than Emily did. She just took care

of his kid a couple of times. Like that's it's like they don't know each other and they have that, Yeah, they have that like one hot moment and then they sleep together and like that's great, but that's when enough to up end your life and move your kid out of his house. And I understand her motivation because you're right, like she's lonely, but that doesn't explain to his behavior.

I feel like he just moves so fast. And I think that the movie does like use that as a way to kind of like raise suspicion about him and like kind of you know, um misdirect the audience. But he's so like like even even when Emily finally comes back and reveals herself to him, and then when the detectives find out about it after she comes back on purpose, he asked him like, well, so you knew that she was alive and you didn't like say anything, And I'm like, yeah,

that's suspicious. Why didn't you say anything? Like I don't write. Why would you not mention that, especially given that he spent the last couple of weeks of like of Stephanie being like she's alive, I promise she's alive and him being like, no, she's definitely dead. You now know that she was right, So why wouldn't you say anything? Right? Which is like my first feeling in particular, I was like, oh, this guy is like guilty as fuck, Like why I

still don't quite get Sean eludes me. He eludes me, and every time thing I think that he's just very very silly. What a goofy guy. They're like, yeah, like I do think it's fun, Like he is kind of the element that he's kind of this like one hit wonder kind of guy, where like he wrote a book what presumably in his early twenties and now he's like in his mid thirties, Like I'm really getting around to it, you know any second now? Is Oh I know that guy that I am that guy? I feel like sometimes

you are that guy. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about Emily and her um, her background because there because there's in the back half of this movie, Holy sh it, there's a lot that comes up. Yeah, so there's a bunch of twists and turns as it pertains to Emily. I think one of the first things we learn about Emily that is never like explicitly stated. It is explicitly stated about her twin but not her, is that she has substance abuse issues. She is constantly drunk

during the day. It's clearly had an effect on her marriage. She seems to be aware of this. She also seems to be aware that it's had an effect on her parenting.

But it also, like I thought it was interesting the way that's presented, because it is reference constantly that it is like a detriment to her family um, But in the same way, it's also presented as like part of what makes her a cool from fatal character, which I just think is I guess I don't really know, Like many things in this movie, I don't know which which way to really fall on how I feel about that.

I do think it's interesting that both sides of that coin are presented to the viewer of like, yeah, you know, she's drinking a handle of vodka a day, but doesn't she look good doing it? And you're like, well, yes, but also her like I mean that moment like after she quote unquote dies but doesn't where Sean like has a moment where he's angry about it and he's like, oh, you miss your mom, like that lady who got drunk in the middle of the day all the time, And

you're like, yikes. This is like this family is like was truly affected, but it's not really. It's it's weird because it's presented as a genuine substance abuse issue with her mother and her twin sister who also had issues with abusing drugs, um and drug addiction. But when it comes to Emily, it's cool. Question Mark, that was one thing that was like one thing. I was like, I agree, Actually, it's because it wasn't until you just said that I was like, oh, yeah, she was like fully an alcoholic,

Like it just dawned on me. Which is not a judgment statement, but it's like it seems to be inherent to that character. Yeah. I wonder if this is commentary or not. Let me know what you think, but I wonder if it's like a because of the class component. People perceive substance abuse differently depending on your class. It reminds me of a joke from Rock. Well, that's yeah,

that's for sure true. So I don't know if the way it's being presented in this movie is commentary on that or not, if it's just sort of like leaning

into that without really commenting on it. But it reminds me of this joke in thirty Rock, and I'm going to butcher it because I don't remember it exactly, but it's something like Alec Baldwin is like, oh, it's just like being business drunk and it's like legal to drive when you're The implication being if you're wealthy enough, you can be drunk and drive or do whatever and you won't face any repercussions because of your like elevated privilege

in class and stuff like that. So because Emily has this like high powered job and she's drinking fancy martinis and like doing them in a very fancy way, it's like not as easy to perceive her as you know, someone who's struggling with substance abuse issues, versus her twin sister, who has clearly been like down on her luck for several years and is uh, you know, financially struggling, and her substance abuse is much more apparent because of that. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what the

movie is like saying about it, if anything. And Jeane Smarts character as well, who we see drinking and who we're told explicitly on screen like, oh, she shouldn't be drinking. So I did think it was interesting that they went and this again at like, this is not a universal truth, but it is certainly something that happens of you know, substance abuse being a hereditary issue, and so I thought it was interesting that you saw that her mother is

clearly struggling with something similar. But again it's just like to what end, It doesn't really play out in Emily's character at all. You're sort of you sort of assumed that if she didn't go to prison, she would continue

day drinking indefinitely and it would always be really sexy. Yeah, I think for me, I think Jane smot is the reason why I would say that, I don't think that it's meant to be class commentary only because for me, what made it obvious that the sister and the mom are struggling substance versus Emily is that Emily is always

in control of her faculties. Like when we meet Faith, she looks strung out, she looks like she's been using drugs um, she's emaciated, her hair as a mess, and similar to Jane Spot's character the mom she is, you know, she's like in a dizzie she's lying around the how was like she she looks like she is under the influence, as opposed to Emily, who's just like sexily doing sexy

things with a Martinique pass. And it makes me think of Olivia Pope from Scandal, who like also drunk exorbitant amount the time, but like the functioning alcoholic of all time, right, and she but like she's always in control, like that's that's her thing. And so that was another show where it didn't occur to me that like she literally only eats popcorn and drinks wine like she is an alcoholic. But it doesn't like it doesn't like register because she's

she's always in control. She's never having um, you know, like accidents or getting black out drunk or throwing up everywhere or missing meetings like the one time that she ever spilled wine on her white couches because she was kidnapped by the deep state, like it like so you

never like because of that. I think that it's the it's the the depiction of those characters as like fully in control of their faculties that makes the difference in whether or not you perceived them as having a substance to this problem, because like Black Live is tall, Carrie Washington is like smaller but like not a very tall person. Like the volumes of alcohol that she was allegedly consuming should have her flat on her back, right, yes, yes, And it's I mean I think that that is like

like whatever fictional signaling that that play. I mean, at least in the case of Scandal, I mean, it for sure just plays into like this is the trope rich people can drink forever and still be the greatest people in the world. And I don't know the Scandal, I'm like, you know what, find whatever, I'm gonna keep watching it. I'm gonna keep watching it before I go to bed.

So it's above reproach. But but yeah, I mean, in this case, it's just I with Scandal, it makes more sense to me because it's not like there are a lot of clear foils to that logic. Like it's just like, oh, this is Olivia Pope. This is like the in this world you can drink wine all day and still be the most high functioning, amazing person on the planet. And that is just true here where we are. But in

this movie it's like both things are true. You can like I don't know again, I just like I just thought it was interesting when they went, and it wasn't until like they went as far as to show you that her mother also seems to be an alcoholic maybe and recovering alcoholic TOSM extent. It's just and and and she says over and over that it's like she's a

bad mother. And that's another thing about Emily's character that I mean Emily, like that scene where she looks so beautiful, like but she shows up, like the scene where Anna Kendrick takes her picture and she says all these like casually like brutal things about herself in a very casual way where she's just like the best thing I can do for my son is to blow my brains out, and like, don't denigrate your good parenting to make up for my shitty parenting, Like she's saying like I'm a

bad parent, like saying like really really gnarly stuff. So it's like she knows, I don't know. I don't know. It's just weird. I like it. I like it, but

it's weird. Yeah, I think because at that point in the movie we don't know any of the backstory, and I think it's supposed to be part of her charm that she's like, no, parenting is hard, like I'm bad at it, and like it's supposed to be like I'm telling the truth things that like no one wants to say, as opposed to like no, I'm actually a neglectful person to my child and we don't know that until later. Because even even Stephanie's like no, I think you're a

great mom. But that's also part of just like social graces, right, Like you don't someone says something shitty about themselves, You don't it's not true. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. O. Yeah, I guess you are really late. So so I'm not.

I feel like I think you're right that like she does know, But I think that's that's also part of like the fun that Emily has, like saying the true things out loud, and like making people squirm the first few lines of dialogue out of her mouth, and then like a couple of scenes beyond that, she's saying, like I was laughing. She's like, I can't have a play date with you, boring mom, mommy lady, I have a

play date with the symphony of antidepressants. And then her son's like, you never let me do anything fun, and Emily's like, that's not true. I let you rip my labia when I pushed you out of my body. You know, like all this stuff, You're just like, wow, I deliciously grass my best friend or be my wife, doesn't matter. She should she should be the writer in this family, not Sean. Right, that is always fun when a writer

has like a way more interesting partner. And I'm like, well, I guess I know where you're getting all this ship from. That you just have a factory of material with you. Emily's everybody's muse. She is, She's some people just walk in the light like that, And I guess that that that also does like that also ties into her whole like stop apologizing her annoyance with which is like, alright,

it's weird. When we're recording this, it already does feel like a very eighteen thing to like girls stop apologizing. But but in the in the world of this movie, I think it works, and the way that Emily presents it, and then the way that Stephanie takes it to such an extreme that at the end she puts her best friend in jail, and it's like, oh, I'm not sorry,

Like I thought that. There is like a good amount of commentary there on like, yes, women, like women are socially conditioned to apologize a lot, but but sometimes, you know, sometimes you do something sucked up you have to apologize. Because Emily says to Stephanie, don't apologize, it's a fucked up female habit. You don't need to be sorry for anything ever, And it's like, well that's not that part, isn't true, Like sometimes you like probably should apologize, right

and not if you're a chaotic by sexual No. Oh man, this whole conversation is making me like the movie even more. Um uh, what else we got? What else we got? I find it interesting And maybe this comment isn't even totally fair. But this is a movie about female friendship more or less. But it's basically a movie where if two women try to be friends. Look what happens, but cautionary tale, which wouldn't be that big of a deal.

But there are so many movies like this that hinge on a narrative of like two women meeting and then ending up hating each other or ending up like trying to screw each other over. Usually those stories are written by men, because men don't understand um things. But yeah, but I guess that's why it doesn't bother me as much here, because I understand why they don't. Like I mean,

that's really all I mean. And I do think that there should be more move you know, media in general, where it's just like women being friends and connecting with each other. I just record something about Little Women where you're just like, oh, yeah, like watching women meaningfully connect with each other and occasionally how conflict is like, oh, it is such a really corner of the world to live in. But I do feel like in the case of this movie, I don't know all I want, like,

if there are women in conflict, amazing. I just want to be able to wrap my head around why, like and sometimes with the men, with with the way that men right conflict between women, It just don't you're like this doesn't you don't understand, like that's that's very underdeveloped or like dissonant. But in this case, yeah, I don't feel like they're in conflict so much. Is that that they're at cross purposes. Like it's less that Stephanie is

like against Emily or vice versa. It's more that, like one is trying to achieve something specific, the other is also trying to achieve something specific, and they both can't achieve the same thing or achieve their thing if the other person wins. So it's not that they're against each other. It's that they're trying to accomplish their goals, and their goals are contradictory. Right, that's it. That that's a perfect

way to put it. I don't know, Yeah, it it didn't ping for me in this movie in particular, but I do. I mean, that's still obviously like a thing that still happens too frequently. Sure, yeah, yeah, does anyone have any other thoughts? I feel like we've just scratched the surface of this. I definitely just mentioned I noticed that.

I mean, there is a fair amount of diversity in this cast, but it I mean, obviously, is this like you know, Battle of wits between these two white ladies, and they're like the queer characters and people of color, with the exception of Henry Golding, are kept on the

comedic margins of the movie. There's like, there's so many good players that it's like I wish that, you know, like a part of nancial Or's there and use a mar I mean, Andrew Rails does get to hit Black Lively with a car so and then he gets out and he says, America's hybrids silent but deadly. And I'm like, like,

I love any time that their ad screen. I just always have like, okay, give a word to do that, you know, but you know, you get you get to see them smoking a bong, you get to see Andrew Reynolds hit like Lively with a pre as you know, you do get some stuff. But yeah, I just felt like that was worth mentioning. Sure, I would like to mention that instead of a close trying on montage, there

is a getting rid of clothes montage. Wow. But then that also confused me because we see that montage where Stephanie is getting she has moved into Emily's house, she clears out her closet, but then like she comes in whatever the next day or something like that, and all of Emily's stuff is back where it was. Is that to suggest that Emily like snuck in during the night and like put all of her clothes and shoes back.

I hope, So, I think so right. I didn't even get that it was a different day because I was like, how did you do that? That bast that's weird. Yeah, I thought it was in this space went downstairs, I know, And I'm like, was this like a dream sequence? Like I was so confused by the whole thing. But anyway, we do see a getting rid of clothes montage, and

I was like, I think that that's different. That's kind of funny too, because I I because we just had this like huge fem fay talel tropes discussion and how they're like sometimes perceived as being like kind of witchy characters that have magic. I think I just bought into that trope in that moment. I'm like, yeah, like Lively scrambled upstairs and put everything out there, of course you did. Yeah, that's her sense to me. Wow, Wow, I got femay

tale pilled in that moment. Wow. Yeah, does anyone have anything else they want to talk about. I don't know. We talked about a lot. I don't know. I'm satisfied. I'm satisfied as well. And the movie, I mean, gang, does this movie pass the Bechtel test? Yes, yeah, yeah, super does. I would say more often than not. Maybe possibly kind of a rare example of a movie. Yeah that more conversations pass than don't. I mean, I haven't done the math the heart math on that, so don't

quote me on it. This is not a math podcast. Is math podcast is not a book podcast, So relax. But it's just the girls circling up. And now I'm I'm I'm bisexual. I don't do math, but you do understand chaos theory because of how chaotic bisexuals are. It's just in me. Yeah, you are a scientist, you just don't do math. Um. Yes, definitely does pass the Becktel test.

As far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, Oh wow, I simply I simply don't know about a simple favor. I guess I would give this, like, I mean,

it's rare. The movie where two women are the main players is like such a complicated and challenging and interesting movie that generates such an interesting discussion that alone makes me want to give it like three and a half or four nipples, maybe because even though I still don't quite know what to make of it, I do kind of part of me wanted the movie to end differently, where like the two women realize, wow, we actually are best friends, and um, we would stand a better chance

if we just like team up and get rid of this goofball husband guy who will just apparently have sex with any woman nearby. Uh So let's screw him over and then team up and whatever, just like collect that four million dollars and have a ball and keep kissing each other. Um. That might have been like too silly and like to like girl power of an ending, but that is kind of what I was hoping for. Um, the heart wants what the heart wants. I know. Even so,

it was a challenging, interesting movie. I appreciate a lot of what it was doing, as far as like commentary on like you know, middle class, upper middle class white lady being a girl boss, like because I mean, we don't really see Stephanie have any Karen moments, but she strikes me as like such a Karen. I feel like talking to the Boss was the Karen of it. That's true, It's true, Yeah, discount or was it low Rent tom Ford? That was? That was her? So yeah, I don't know

the commentary on that. That's that's all interesting to me. I wish there were more movies just that celebrate female friendship and um don't suggest that they're kind of doomed. But you know, even so, this is a fun movie. I'll give it three and a half nipples. I'll give one to Henry Golding, not his character, but just him as an actor because I love him. I'll give one to a partner on Charla. I will give one to the prius that runs over Blake Live Lad. I'll give

my half nipple to um. I think there are the two little boys were playing with teenage mutant Ninja Turtle toys at some point. Hell yeah, so I'll give my half nipple to Turtle Toys. Does it Ninja Turtles? Because I'm like, when are we going to cover a Ninja Turtles movie? You've never asked, we should do it. I will Secret of the Use Baby. There's a new one coming out next year. I think that's our time to shine anyway, So those are that's my nipple distribution. Okay,

I'm tempted to go for here. I mean, and maybe it's just because I had such a delightful time, but and I think it also because I think I am going to go for partially because we and maybe I wouldn't have if we hadn't just covered a different noir.

And it was really interesting to see how whatever seventy plus years of the genre kind of built and evolved the way that umm fatales can be presented and the amount of depth that they can have, and even like comparing this movie to the nineteen forties more that we covered, like how just replacing a motivation being inherently connected to a man and changing it to like this very complicated, fucked up relationship with the women in her life, like

on the whole if reviewing Emily as the protagonist, she has a fox up relationship with Stephanie, she has a really complicated relationship with her sister. She has a really complicated relationship with her mom, and that seems to be more what drives her to behave the way she does versus her relationship with men. But she's still very much a fem fatale, which I just I don't know. I

think it's really interesting. And then I also think that the modern you know, the kind of mommy vlogger criticism while also giving her depth that you can kind of like or dislike, was really strong. I at the end of the day, this is still a movie that hinges on the lives of two white women who have access to everything they need. They're not um you know, I think it's good that they discuss money and that they are having I don't think it's good that they're having money,

but you know what I mean. But ultimately, like this is a kind of movie that's like it's subverting some things and then others it's sort of no, but it's a but I like it. We contain multitudes, We contain multitudes, and I do. And again it's this is a kind of like, very very specific subgenre that I hope continues to develop, maybe not like right away, but down the line, I would like to see more movies like this, and maybe you know, start women of color, maybe a little

bit less of the completely depraved bisexual trope. Perhaps a woman could direct question Mark. I mean, let's really shoot for the stars here, but I do. I mean in terms of like a half step in progress. I think it's cool that you know, all three of these movies that we were kind of referencing throughout this episode, we're based on stories by women and were adapted by women, which you certainly weren't getting earlier in the genre. And

it seems to show, Um, I like this movie. Uh. Maybe maybe I'm taking an l by giving it four nipples, but I'm going to go for it. I'm going to give one to Blake and give one Blake's twin. Oh no, sorry, I'm gonna give three to the triplets. Uh, and then I'll give I'll give my last one to a partner. And That's what I'm gonna do. Kate, So I love this movie because I've already said I mean, like I think I mentioned it before we got on the mix, but I have the poster for this film like framed

and up in my apartment. But I love this movie. It forced me to stop calling like Lively Plantation Barbie, and I just I feel like it's one of those like media prophecies that has like enough of like a queer sensibility that it's like it's almost like gaydar, Like the movie is like signaling to you in ways that are not necessarily apparent, but are obviously if you know what you're looking for. And I love stuff like that.

And I had known long before now that, like I always like the character that's like a little bit gy, like Blair was my favorite on Gossip Girl, Like I love the mean character. I love the character who is like quick with a sharp bird, And I just feel like I got so much of that out of this film that I really enjoyed. Plus, I love a mystery.

I love a good twist. There's it's so rare that like a movie surprises me anymore, even if I really enjoy them, And like, this is one of the few in the last couple of years that I didn't know what was going to happen next, and I really enjoyed that ride. So asked for my nipples, I'm gonna just slightly differently. I'm going to dock a nipple for Emily not winning in the end, because I think that the crivalent should always win, And I'm gonna dock a half

nipple for the black cop trope because I hate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then as for my other three and a half. I'm going to give one to Emily Suits. I'm going to give another one to Paul Figs Walking Kane, I'm gonna give one to the cousin kid Nikki because kids swearing as alway hilarious. And my other half in the boat, I will give to Blake Lively's line reading of brotherfucker Yeah, which one I like? Maybe has a catch phrase it's fun. They should have been on the poster. But okay, thank

you so much for being here. Oh my god, what a treat me so fun. Thanks for doing us the favor, the simple favors of being a guest on the show. And now we're going to disappear for a long time and always not to chat to murder you for a million dollars. Thank you so much. Look, I would understand. Just please use the correct photo when I'm killed. That's all I have. Yeah, will email you the photos that we approve of. Yeah, where can people follow you on

social media? Check out your writing, check out anything that you'd like to plug. Sure, um, you can find me on various social media platforms at batty ma'amselle. Let's be a t C Y M E m Z E double l E. If you can't find me, I'm not there. UM and my website which is Kate dash Young dot com and more frequently UM. I published a weekly newsletter with my friend Zusha called thirty flirty and Fine. It's on sub stack and film. Oh my god, what did I say that wrong? Thirty flirty and film that sub

stack um. And every week we published two film reviews that we write in thirty minutes or less, probably more, But we don't tell you because it's ours and we can make whatever rules you want. You're full of secrets. Yeah, we're just lying. Um. But but that's really fun. And our our last issue was, uh, the reviewed Benedetta, which just came out. That's a lesbian none movie. It's super fun, um, and so she covered UM. I forget what it's called the non documentary. Oh my god, I forget what it's

about that. They're like kick ass nuns. I'm not sure, but it's like they're like kick ass nuns who like protest and ship and I'm like, yeah, more Catholic nuns need to say fuck you to the pope. But it's really fun. We have a lot of fun doing it. UM. I like to pretend like it's not stressful because I enjoy making work for myself relatable content. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at bechtel Cast. You can check out our Matreon that's at patreon dot com slash

spectel cast. It gets you two bonus episodes every month, plus the whole back catalog of bonus episodes and it's five dollars per month. Wow. You can also fulfill all your merchandizing needs at t public dot com slash factel cast. And with that, um, do you want to jump in the lake? Nothing, nothing weird going on. Just let's let's go for a swim. You know this sounds like a plan to me. Okay, only if I got a fancy time in ring there. Okay, it's a deal. Bye bye bye