This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody, your tune to the baseline Calie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. And as you're enjoying the NBA Finals, you know, we got to continue to keep this thing moving. We got a couple of bodies that have been decaying in the in the medical examiner's office that's been due for an examination, and uh, you know, we got to continue to keep it
pushing. Man. So again it's that coveted autopsy reports. As we keep things moving along. We got two new bodies on the slab. I'm sorry, two overdue bodies on the slab. Let me go and roll out the red carpet to my right hand man's Www. Dot Shaw Sports a Net Bicker UNEP and c my man, mister Warrenshaw, repping out of Fort Lauda Deale,
Florida. What's good, mister Shaw. I know we've been preoccupied with everything going on with the NBA Finals and you know the transactions that have been happening, but you know, listen, we needed a little bit of time. We needed a little bit of a reprieve we need a little bit of smelling salt before we have to start getting up into these two. These are some two archaic, you know what I'm saying, very traditional olds teams that
we got to get into. Man, you know what I'm saying. They they ain't brand new no more now like they've been around the block a couple of times. You can say that again. You know, two of the more story franchise here was in the Final four and both go out I'd say in disappointing fashion in ways that we're disappointing in very very nuanced ways to I think each one of them specifically, but ultimately, you know, we are fans of of of one of these teams and had to take our own personal
reprieve to kind of get our thoughts in order here on them. At the end of the day, the Lakers and Celtics do not avoid the slab. They are up here, no matter how rotten they are. Currently lots of cover, lots of discusses. These two story franchise with Hall of Fame level talent on the roster um really really really are gonna make for a great interesting conversation. So hope fans tune to listen to this woman absolutely, and you know, listen, it ain't all that bad shaw. We're giving them fresh
dirt. We were putting. We're putting fresh dirt on them right like. So they should not feel they should not feel bad any way, shape or form. Man, you know what I'm saying. We were We believe, we believe in properly landscaping our teams. It's so listen, we appreciate you and yours wropping on a board with us this week. As always, be sure to get him a man. Shall as our sports NBA again at me a game face? Leave the shows two and a hand an NBA Baseline available
in all the major platforms. You know where to find us. UM. As you can see we ride out with our people from the nineteen Media Groups. If you see nineteen Media Group on the logo, UM know that the Baseline family is always in it to win it. UM. Be sure to go to www dot nineteen Media Group dot com to check out our show and
the litany of other shows that are out there. And if you want to catch our episode and all the other previous episodes of the Baseline, be sure to go to www dot the Baseline NBA dot com so, as Shaw has alluded to, we've got two teams that were prepared to put on a slab. We're gonna be talking about the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics. You do not want to miss out on the insight and the whole evaluation process, and if we feel right about it, we may actually give them a
proper eulogy as well too. You don't want to miss out here on the baseline. Time to break it. They're dead, My team, My team is dead. They knew we were coming. Man, they knew we were coming. Night time. Now for the breakdown, Callie warned Shaw Baseline NBA podcast, And this is our coveted autopsy report. We've got two teams aren't putting on the slab. We're ready to um examine an zoom. We're going to start off with the Los Angeles Lakers, not because we don't you know,
we we hate them the most. I think Shaw, it's good that we're going to actually start with the Los Angeles Lakers because I think here, to me, the one thing that stands out to me about the Los Angeles
Lakers is that they really truly represent a tale of two stories. Right the representation of what the Los Angeles Lakers were that started the season and what they finished with as far as not even how they how things ended against the Denver Nuggets, but how much they have sort of evolved and moreph themselves into a
much different identity. I think one of the questions that I wanted to ask you, and it's not something that would have been proper to ask after the way that they got beaten down by the Denver Nuggets, But more to the point about what you look at this team, you look at the roster,
and you look at the mentality and the approach. Can you honestly say that this version of the self, I'm sorry, this version of the Lakers can actually give you a reason to see what this team should potentially look like like. In other words, are you able to see a blueprint of success now for the Los Angeles Lakers, because we can honestly say that that's not what
has happened really in the last two three years. I think they even got away with what they potentially put together when they went and won the championship in the bubble. But I feel like part of that was because it's instantaneous championship success, because of the pressure applied by Lebron James. He mandates and dictates that kind of narrative, and so you see the after effects when that can't hold and how long it takes in order to form what seems to be like
a championship caliber basketball team. But I don't even know if we can say that just yet. But are we able to say that there's a blueprint of success for the Los Angeles Lakers given what they showed us the second half of this season. Second half of the season, they were a completely different basketball team. Defense really kicked in, they were home warriors, really was able to defend you know, Crypto dot Com, and just played team basketball.
Lebron wasn't always, wasn't always the best player on the floor, and I think for him at age thirty eight, that was probably a good thing where he can more or less try to try to pick his spots. But to answer your question, the problem is they have, let me look here, three guys under contract officially they can. They have Malik Beasley, he has a team option. They have more Bomba, and they have jard Vandabile.
All those contracts are not guaranteed. So three guys who they for sure, for sure need to pay money to Lebron, Anthony Davis and Max Christie a ball players. So Lebron and Ad already make up ninety million dollars worth of that contract or their salary capture ninety million role. So when you're asking me like, hey, you know, is the blueprint there? I mean,
I guess. So I feel pretty strongly about those two guys being the cornerstones, if you will, of even of a short term window for a championship. But laquer Nation in a lot of ways is I don't know, I want to say a little overly optimistic. And I know, you know Jeannie is going to go into the luxury tax he pays to you, thinks nothing about paying that and repeater tax and everything like that too. But I think it's really interesting when you only have that many players that are fully guaranteed and
then you're not sure about the other guys. If you're going to bring those guys back to the Angel is a free agent, Lonnie Walker's a free agent. Ruey who they got from Washington is a free agent, Wayne Gabriel, Dennis Shrewder, Troy Brown Junior, Austin Reeves. Who's gonna be owed a massive increase and pay. Now. I think they'll do that for at least
three of those guys. But for to what you're saying. But at the end of the day, I'm a little concerned that because if any of those players or get wandering eyes and just say, you know what, this isn't the place I want to hitch my wagon too. You know, Lebron going to be thirty nine years old, Anthony Davis, You're not the pillar of strength and health for the for the majority part of his career. Maybe those guys I want to go seek an opportunity elsewhere, or do they just say,
you know what, we were close. I can still get a substantial payday and we can run this thing back with this roster for the full year. That remains to be seen, and I'd be really interested in now to see what Polinka and bust He decide to do with that many free agents on the roster. So yeah, so I asked the question. Maybe I should have I should have asked it with a wink, wink, nod nod, right, Like what you saw from this team reminds me a lot like when
Frank Vogel was the head coach. Right now, I'm not saying this to diminish or dismiss Darvin Ham. Darvin Ham did exactly what I would think any coach in his position who simply wants to get these guys to play either up to their level or play to not be embarrassed, to play to win, to play with some sense of urgency, some sense of will to compete.
He got them to do exactly what they were incapable of doing, even having a Hall of Fame player like Lebron James and a superstar player like Anthony Davis. And in the end, Shaw, I think the one thing that really sticks out at me is from a strategic perspective, there's a blueprint of success, but from a personnel perspective, they are still going to run into the same problems that they've been running into since they won the championship. They don't
have a reliable person who can help stabilize. From a defensive perspective, when you don't have full on a D on the court, or you don't have consistent ad playing in critical games for every single game that you're competing in the playoffs, and to your point, you don't have Lebron James as Lebron James thirty five. You don't have Lebron James thirty four, thirty three or younger.
You're getting an older, more savvier version of Lebron James. So it amuses me when you hear a lot of the mainstream commentators and analysts say, well, we need Lebron James to take over games, we need Lebron James going to drop four, as if that is something that's just supposed to happen out of nowhere, right, Like, that's not what goes down, and
that's never been Lebron James. Lebron James is the reason why he is consider one of the greatest players of all time is not just because of he'll just go out there and get your forty. It's he is. He was. He is what Nicola Yoki is right now for us, right he is the kind of person where even if he doesn't give you forty, he somehow is involved in almost every conceivable play that impacts the game, like he scored forty,
like he scored fifty five. He has a key block, he has a key steal, he has a key pass, he has a key rebound. Everything with him evolves around there being a key. It's hard to do that when other players who are assuming those certain intangibles that are already a given if you had that type of Lebron James available to you, you're not seeing
that from all of those guys. So I said, I asked that question because it's amazing to me Shaw that the simplicity of it is saying, if you have the way that the Lakers play to get themselves in this position, that type of personnel, and that type of consistency from that type of personnel,
there's no question this would be a championship caliber basketball team. But this situation reared its ugly head when you saw that you couldn't see the consistency of these guys in their ability to perform in that kind a way unless the matchups are so favorable in there today that tilts their way that if they played against someone that is maybe younger than them, maybe they've got more more more bodies
to throw at them that they can't hold their own. And so to your point, it brings back the question of you only got three guys that are contracted on your roster right now, if you can't hold even the guys that you have now with this type of climate, that's going on in the NBA. Who are you getting going out there to get that's going to replace what gave you what you got to get to that point, which was the Western
Conference Finals this past season. So to me, they also have a little bit of a again I had to use this word as the only one that's coming up right now, but a little bit of a cultural problem somewhat. And do you want to give in to Lebron again? Right? And it's really interesting to see the genesis of ideation here from from Laker nation, if
you will. At one point when this run was going well, it was reported out that the Lakers were more than likely going to keep the Angelo Russell right, and he fell off a cliff, especially in the Western Conference finals, did not did not look well. Now, Kybrie, we're being is showing up to games, you know, on the sidelines. We all know what's going on, potentially what's going on in his contract in Dallas, and
Lebron and Kyrie have been flirting around together. If you're if you are Polinka in company, do you now say what let's go back and do this again. Lebron wants Kyrie, Lebron wants whoever Lebron wants, or do you go back to your most recent history here where you're like, you know what, I constructed a team speaking lest Polinka, now, I constructed a team that got us to the Western Conference finals, negating what Lebron ultimately wanted when he
wanted us to bring in Westbrook and other parts. So to me, I think it's do you go with the aging potential best player of Hall of all time and kind of catering and bending to his whims and needs, or do you go with what you think is ult best that will help him but also help you. And when you're talking about who's going to come in here? Now, the Lakers always are big game hunting. That's just that's what they do. But I don't know if that's if that's the if that's the mode
of operation here with whoever that may be. I'm not saying it's Kyrie ree I don't know who it is, but I would probably more likely like to see than bring back the majority of those guys, especially Ruy, especially Austin Reeves, you know, and some of the other even let him Obamba try to work his way back into into the situation a little bit. And then
if you feel like you need an upgrade at Point Guard. I think there are other names out there besides Kyrie Irving that you could probably look at, but I don't have any I don't have faith that that's not what they'll do. I think it's just Lebron kind of always gets his way to the most part, and I'm not I'm not trying to say anything negative about him in any capacity, like that's just a cost of doing business when you have him
on your roster. That's just what it is. I think Polinka has to kind of thread the needle here to the line of what exactly that's going to look like, especially as Lebron creeps up to age forty. Well, so let me add on top of that to your point, because I was chomping at the bit when when you mentioned Kyrie Irvin's name, because obviously that's what's floating around. There's another side to that equation show that has to be asked if you were to do that, if you're Rob Polinka, what are you
telling Anthony Davis? Right, Let's not act like we don't hear the chirpers out there. We don't hear what's being you know, the elephant in the room is is Anthony Davis the real deal? And guess what, when you are a big playing for the Los Angeles Lakers, you've got a lot of heavy lifting. Right. We've seen what happened to Dwight Howard. He got eight up by not just the Laker Nation, but more importantly by his own
teammates. Because everyone on the outside lauded him to be the next Wilt Chamberlain, to be the next Shaquille O'Neill, right, to be the next Kareem abdul Jabbar, to usher in that level of dominance at the five position. Anthony Davis was brought in to not only quell that, and for the most part, the bubble actually accelerated the hype about what he should potentially give Lakers Nation. Right next to Lebron James. They should be getting multiple championships.
But we've been saying this for the longest time. If he cannot stay healthy, how can you properly evaluate the length of that success, especially if you have a person like Lebron James who is mandating and dictating really all of the supplemental parts around you. You know what I mean? So now, okay, fine, you're going you get Kyrie Irving. What does Kyrie Irving do for an Anthony Davis A hard time to find that? Shaw I really am, if nothing else, Kyrie Irving. And I'm not saying that Kyrie Irving
is gonna be a cancer. I'm not saying Kyrie Irving is bad for the I'm just saying Kyrie irving skill set does exactly what for Anthony Davis. Right If at the very least Anthony Davis doesn't replicate the level of greatness that people have, now he becomes the scapegoat. Now he becomes the person that all of a sudden there's that level of ungratefulness that is being shown towards How is that helpful for the Los Angeles Lakers? And ultimately this is about winning championships?
You know what I'm saying. Let's not act like Anthony Davis will not be vastly affected by this and be like I don't need to be a part of this. You know what I'm saying. I got you people your chipping, you're still not happy. I can go elsewhere and still get my bag, you know what I'm saying. And you never hear that from any of the bigs that play for the Los Angeles Lakers. So this is a no
win situation for Anthony Davis. But part of it is his fault because even when he is healthy and is on the court, he doesn't consistently play to the level that we all think that he is capable of being. And now that he is basically at his he's at the thirty year mark, right, So I'm not saying he's done the downside of his career. What I'm saying
is is that it doesn't get any easier from here for him. So that to me is just what sticks out more than anything when you have certain moves that may potentially be made, and who actually factors over those type of players, Who has that voice in a room to say whether that it's a good or a bad thing when you're putting together that roster. I'll just kind of close on this because the Kyrie thing is not a for sure situation absolutely.
However, I will say that it's interesting because in some ways it could help a D offensively. If a D is now it glorified number three two b ish offensive option, then he focuses on the defense and rebound and where he can be absolutely dominant. I think where he's got and into trouble more so recently with Laker fans and perceptions of his capabilities. Is having to try to
score and do all those things offensively and defensively. If he has to score, I don't know, eighteen to twenty one points per game something along those lanes instead of twenty five to twenty seven a game or whatever. Now, because a guy a talent like Kyrie, is there somebody of that ilk so to speak, maybe that helps, But again, what happens with the rest of the roster, And I think that's the question regardless, right, So I think my question kind of going back to you is, you know,
Darvinham, it's kind of a tale of two seasons. So like what they did pre All Star and pre trade trade deadline is almost kind of irrelevant. They're a completely different team from that. We have to kind of use that
as the benchmark here. Now. You know, our guy Jabari Davis, he sings the praises and everybody's singing the praises of one Austin Reeves and I'll never forget, you know, game one of the playoffs vers versus Memphis Grizzlies, he's walking around screaming that he him well, I thought that was a little much from my taste. He's a very good basketball player and I will not disrespect I think you know his overall skill set to him stuff too far? Who think you are? I am? I'm sorry? But yeah,
where where do you? Where do you rate Darvin Ham's first season, especially after that and then overall the value of Austin Reeves? Who might might I just I think it's our report here he might get to be on Team USA this summer. Um, you know, just again by by virtue of some of the great great basketball player that he that he that he had, especially in Clinton's playoffs. Here, where do you rate Austin Reeves and Darvin Ham and their seasons as Lakers? See you give you a grade or just however?
Just yeah, just your great thoughts whatever. I think Austin Reeves had himself a remarkable season. Um. I think it's been a while since you have quote quote homegrown talent come in and have as much impact for the Los Angeles Lakers since their free agency moves. And I think you'd be remissed if you're the Los Angeles Lakers to allow that to go somewhere else. I will say this though, because I saw this become more evident, and I'll move
on to Darvenham real quick. Austin Reeves presents a very interesting conundrum because it lends to the thing that we were just talking about in relation to Anthony Davis and how you were relating to having you know, Kyrie Irvan could probably help Anthony Davis. I think in the long term, Austin Reeves will be a detriment to Anthony Davis. Listen, at the end of the day, given the way the Lakers play, given the way though Braun is playing, Anthony
Davis is gonna have to play the five. He don't want to play the five, but if you want, he did a lot. But to the point that I'm saying Shaw, there has to be an interior presence that I think Lebron James wants to kind of move further and further away from I think that Anthony Davis over the years is starting to move further and further away from that paint. So then my question is who you're gonna get down there, Who's going to do the dirty work down there? You can't tell me that
it's gonna be Austin Reeves either. Austin Reaves is going to be your two guard or he's playing that three and Lebron is back to playing that four. Right to me, no matter how you slice it, I think it's gonna come down to that long question for Anthony Davis, will you ever be comfortable playing that five? Because the way that Lebron wants this team structured, if you want shooters, it's gonna require him to be away from that basket a
line. So you gotta get guys that are gonna be willing to score that basketball either get down and penetrate. But I don't know if Anthony Davis is going to be acquiesced to that part of it. That's the reason why I say that's how great of a season at Austin Reeves has because he presents that as being could be a good problem if you're Rob Pelinka. Now over to Darvin Him. Darvenham, to me, is exactly what the Los Angeles Lakers
needs, right. They needed a coach that knows how to talk to the players, but more importantly talk to the management and no filter, no sugarcoat, and no kiss ass. The only thing that I've seen that was a faulter for Darvin Him was his inability to really use the roster that he had as in a way that could allow him the best matchups at certain times when they were no matchups. Sometimes you just gotta throw a shot in the dark.
And sometimes I think he kind of pulled his punches a little bit because he's really relying on Lebron James and Anthony Davis to try to take them home, which look like any good coach would typically do. The problem is is that when you've got teams that are better with more depth, you know what I'm saying, you can't just rely on the fact that even if your guys aren't going you just suddenly don't play your guys you're gonna have to play.
So there are certain adjustments to Darwinham could totally make that I think would lend himself to be an even better coach, and that will come with time. What I'm not hope, when I'm hoping doesn't happen, is he doesn't rest on his laurels knowing that he's got Anthony Davis Lebron James, and that stimys that progression that he has to make making offensive adjustments and holding players defensively accountable, because if there's one thing that I know Darwinham wants these guys to work
on. They have got to be better on transitional defense. The Los Angeles Lakers are the absolute worst team in basketball when it comes to transitional defense. And I don't need to look at no numbers time and time again. The Los Angeles Lakers looked like they were dragging mules every single time that they shot a brick and could not get back to the other side of the floor to
defend fast breaks. Some of the slowest teams looked like freaking height looking like coyotes and Hyhena's and foxes up and down the court against the Los Angeles Lakers because their transitional defense was atrocious. So I would like to see Darvin Ham put more emphasis on the things that they can definitely approve on defensively, but I'd love to see him makes more adjustments from an offensive perspective as well too
when matchups don't favor his superstars. I'll kind of like round that out here a little bit, you know. With Ultimately, everybody needs to be to be better, right and I think Ham, as a first year of coach, can definitely take some cues. And we'll talk about another first year of coach here on the flip side here and kind of just understanding where your team
is at, where your roster is at. He he is as much as a fan, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but he's as much of a fan as Lebron as any coach I think he's ever had, you know, And it's really interesting how he kind of plays that in a way that you know, resonates to positivity. You know, I don't
think Lebron disrespects him or looks down on him. I think, you know, Ham has the appropriate level of reverence from Lebron while still maintaining the line as being the head coach who also ultimately has to make some of the hard decisions out there. But this Lakers team does have to figure out, now who are they going to also develop alongside the twilight or Lebron's career. And you know, in this whole conversation, we haven't even given any creedence to
Lebron's messaging that he might consider retirement and any lay that too. I don't think either one of us is buying that, So no need to even go into the conversation. But ultimately, now this roster is not void of talent, but is void of contracts. And I think that's where just what it boils down to, how many of these guys do you bring back? And for those who you don't, who are the replacements that you get into supplement? Because I think you've seen now a formula that got them to a certain
level of success this past season. You know, where they did play hard defense, they got a little bit more shooting around the edges, so to speak, and AD had to kind of lock in defensively and be that anchor for them. I think that's formala. Can these guys come back and expand on the success that they had in the latter part of the season but ultimately
fell short. But again, if a championship is the goal, and we know that it is, you know, twoks had to be made because they got swept by the Timver Nuggets. You know, swept, So there's no two ways about that. As good as it was, getting swipped to the Western Conference finals is not where where you want to be. You know, well, how the game ended, I think spoke more. Um, you know, I'm sorry, Like as much as I love Lebron James and the
idea that you know, I would want the ball in his hands. I didn't see anything about that play that was designed and even the shot that he probably would have taken that would have gave me any confidence that we're gonna win that basketball game. So to that point, show that's what I mean about the evolution of Darvin Hamm, you know, really putting together and relying on
the players that he's you know, ultimately coaching and developing. There's two players I'm going to throw this out before we you know, end this segment that I want to see what happens in the off season and I want to see what takes place. There are two players that I think is going to really have a benefit from having darwinham as a head coach. And I don't know if you agree with me on this one, but follow me here, Jared
Vanderbilt and Riehatchamura. If Riehachimura really understands the defensive principles that are necessary for him as part of that second unit, watch for him to be really taking another step forward. I think offensively he can get better, and you can always do that playing around Lebron James whoever they get as as as a top flight point guard or you know, even Hey, if you figure out a way to bring back Dennis Shrewder, I think he thrives with those type of
guards. But I would love to see darwinham have his imprint or rehatcha Moore's ability to play better defensively. Jared Vanderbilt, I would love to see more discipline from him because he could be one of those Swiss army knife two way type players that could really serve a great purpose for the Los Angeles Lakers. And so if nothing else, I know that the key is about keeping Austin Reeves, and I know you got to worry about a whole rest of other
guys and stuff like that. But if for whatever reason, they don't figure out a way to make sure that Vanderbilt and Hachamura is on this roster, that to me is a telltale sign of things not looking right for the Los Angeles Lakers on how they're going to be able to make up for what those guys contributed and gave the Lakers that second half of the season. And I think that part of that is Darvin Hamm's ability to channel and speak to those
guys to have them have an imprint on their run. Even though they got outsted by the Denver Nuggets. Yeah, so Vanderbilt is going to have to work on the corner three specifically. Absolutely. I think what he does defensively is very, very, very positive on most nights. But he's not even PJ Tucker right now, He's right, He's absolutely from the corner three spots. So that just so that he cannot be a liability offensively. And I
think your point about rue is as well. You know, Ruie has a chance to start next year, you know, depending how the rest of this roster ultimately fills out, he has a chance to start at that three four. I guess he and Lebron would be kind of interchangeable at at those two positions. So I don't think they make the move for him mid season, or like even a little bit before midseason, and not without the intention to keep him. So I think if there's one guy who's coming back, it's
ultimately going to be him. I can't imagine that they would not guarantee Vanderbil's contracts or I think he'll be back as well too. And then we already talked about some of the others, especially with Reeves and what they're going to pay him. I think it's just going to come down to the number. You know, Reeves is probably gonna, i mean, what eighteen somewhere to
eighteen to twenty two million per year. You probably have to pay that guy, you know, and that puts you well into the tax So as you're trying to probably get a third quote unquote star or whatever that looks like, you know, it'll be interesting see how they how they do the cap gymnastics here to manage that. So Lakers good season overall, came back from the
depths of hell. They were the laughing stock Memes and the whole nine all way to the Western Conference Finals. Ultimately gets swept by the Number Nuggets, but a lot of teams wish they could have even been in that situation. So shout out to Lakers for trying their season. Or yeah, man, listen, we're not burying you would just dirt. We're giving you some roses as well too. You would definitely beginning your flowers. Los Angeles Lakers,
They're gonna have a very very interesting off season. Your Tune to the Baseline Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA are coveted autopsy report coming up, we'll be talking about the Boston Celtics. I know we've been gearing up to talk about this team, man, but trust me, I don't think you want to walk away from what we have to say about the Boston Celtics on our autopsy report. But first, if you're looking for the ultimate
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and as always we thank you for your support. Celtics shaw Lee Baseline. Coming up, we are back Callie Warrenshaw basedline NBA podcasts and we are in our coveted autopsy report. Got one more team that's on the slab and that will be the Boston Celtics, the team Shaw that a lot of people favored to be the top team out of the Eastern Conference. They weren't able to
sustain being the first team. And clearly from the way that they ran the playoffs, you almost said to yourself, they're like, really the last most talented team, But by no stretch of the imagination did you feel that they were the best team in the NBA, even though with basically the same roster
that a year ago removed was competing and playing for an NBA championship. And it's just funny how a tumultuous offseason, I guess, if you want to call it, with the situation with ema Udoka has such an effect that by bringing in a interim slash assistant head coach to coach the team throughout the course of the year. You have more questions than answers about this team, even though they got to the Eastern Conference Finals only to find themselves watching from the
outside looking in. Yeah, it didn't go the way a lot of us would have thought it would have went. From Boston. Felt like they addressed all of their proverbial needs from a roster standpoint, especially with bringing and Brogden. He ultimately wins six Men of the Year, Jelen Brown makes their team all NBA um and things really seemed like this was a team of destiny in
a wide open NBA season. But ultimately the changes at the top with the head coach and Joe Missoula kind of coming in and looking very inexperienced in the Eastern Conference Finals form the majority part of that series. Then the team having a lot of its old skeletons come out of those closets. You know, they get the yips, they're they're unable to execute when when things get tight.
They turned the ball over and they didn't play the same level of defense that they did under eudoka Um and ultimately ran into a buzz saw with the with the Miami Heat team that was chomping at the bit to get back at them for losing in the Eastern Conference Finals the season ago, and I think it was almost to the day where you know, they lost Game seven, the heat did and they come back I think a year later and win Game seven on Boston's home floor, the first time we actually would have to put
on a tombstone. May twenty ninth, twenty twenty three. Here lies the Bosses Celtics. Yeah, the Memorial Day massacre really a lot of ways. So for me, what ends up happening now is they go into the off season, off season, off season. Brad Stevens has already come out and endorse Missoula. The thing that needs to happen, I think first and foremost is they need to bolster the assistant coaches around Mossoula. They're not going to
fire them. They're own too much money, They've already given them the contract. They're not going to do that. So do they get can they get some top name assistance. We'll talk about this on another show, but coaches are being hired all around the league right now, and assistant jobs are being taken up by top level guys who were once head coaches going into associate roles.
I know Boston is quote unquote fresh out, but they've really got to look at to see what's available for them, you know, to kind of help Missoula on the sidelines. And I think the biggest thing is because he seems to have an interesting personality where things might grate I think with certain people, so they have to bring in the right fit. I don't know if you can bring in a head coach that's maybe won an NBA championship and put
him alongside Mazoulukause, I think there might be some clashing in there. That's just my assessment of it. No intel on this. The rest of the team now, the rest of the roster now bowls down to what do they do with Grant Williams. Do they feel rogln at twenty two million are really forty four million over the next two years? Is the answer. Even though he was six Man of the Year, he became a glorified three point shooter. He didn't penetrate in the way, he didn't create in the way that
he did in previous seasons. And while he was a sixth Man of the Year, I think Boston was looking for more. And yes he was hurt in the playoffs, but I think those are the biggest questions here as they go into this. Yes, a lot of conversation about Jelen Brown. I'm not as concerned. You can talk about it if you are, but I know people are like, oh, well, is Jelen Brown gonna leave Boston? He's got Supermax money on the table and history has shown us that guys
don't turn that down. So I have nothing else he resigns, maybe yes, for a trade two years from now, but I think at least for the next two years he's probably going to be in a Celtic uniform. Right, That's the way I see it, you know, without getting uh, you know, to too venomous, you know, about my actual feelings about it. That's just kind of the thirty thirty thousand foot overview of the Celtics and how they ended up their season. All right, So let me go
back to your first original point regarding Joe Missoula. You know, it's interesting show that you bring up Joe Missoula and the type of person that he is, and you know, maybe the type of personality that he kind of you
know, exudes upon people. I think the Celtics losing Damon Stodemeyer was was kind of key, you know, um, and I think you know it kind of also speaks to unspoken truth about something, right like Damon Stodemeyer is choosing to leave the NBA to go and coach college basketball, I believe, right. So yeah, So my thing is a lot of guys want to leave college basketball the coach in the NBA, you know what I'm saying. And if Damon Stodammeyer doesn't want to be a part of a herald franchise like
the Boston Celtics. And I'm not saying that the Celtics had to bend over backwards or didn't try or nothing like that. What I'm saying is is that the timing of it really felt kind of sketch, you know what I'm saying, because it could be to Damon's point, you know, I see my career, my voice better suited coaching younger guys, talking to younger guys. Right, This team is because is more veteran laden now even though they're relatively
among the youngest in the NBA when you have Tatum and Brown. So I'm just saying to me that, to your point, is the selling point if what type of assistant head coaches are you going to be able to bring in that's going to be able to talk to both Tatum and Brown and some of the other younger guys that are still on this roster that the Celtics are going to have to make sure that they keep right. So that's one thing.
Well, before you jump into the next one, I'll just say, you know, Steven said specifically that they need to address that and almost to your exact point in terms of they need to bring somebody with NBA playing experience.
So Stotomeyer had that could relate to Tatum and Brown and everybody and saying, hey, I've been here seeing some of these things before, and that is something that they said, Well, they're going to get multiple assistance and one of them will be somebody who has NBA NBA playing experience, you know, obviously because Zula doesn't have that. Yeah, and again I'm just throwing that part of it out there because it's just highlighting to what you were talking about
before. Sor right, So let me now move over to Malcolm Brogden. I wasn't going to talk about Brogden, but you really brought up an interesting point about Malcolm Brogden, I completely agree with you whole and I was the biggest skeptic. I wasn't buying into the idea that I thought that the move of Brogden was the best move. But remember when we sat down, we had that one episode when we discussed about the Boston Celtics and what we enjoyed
about seeing about the Boston Celtics and what we applauded from the Celtics. But the one thing that I think had always been sticking out at me is while I love the fact that Brogden brings that an element that I thought was sorely lacking. You know, once the starters went to the bench, the second units didn't have consistent scoring, didn't have a guy that can get in there and really kind of dictate what the Celtics truly need to either stabilize or to
put the foot on the neck against the opponents and stuff. Malcolm Brogden was showing you that he could be that dude, and somehow all of that went away, somehow, all of that just kind of just in thin air.
Okay, I agree with you. He became a three happy guy. But you know what, so did the whole damn team, right, the whole Buston Celtics team just basically became three happy, and even in a situation where they could show you they can basically be a mid range team or a team that can drive, can penetrate and get three the easy People say three the hard way. I say three the easy way. They choose not to do
it. It's not the team's scheme and plot and do things differently. They choose not to do it, and they go right back to shooting the threes. And so I agree with you Shaw that if that is the mentality that your sixth man and the year guy approaches when he really needs to be better, especially at the point guard position, when he needs to Hey, whoa, guys, we need to get back into getting into the pain. We need to get those midrange games. Well, you need to move the ball
more. If he's not going to be that guy that's going to be able to do that, then I completely agree with you. You may have to revisit the idea of whether or not Brogden is going to be the key or going to be the answer. You know what I'm saying for this Boston Celtics team, especially with the way that it's already constructed, which now leads me to the Jalen Brown situation. I don't disagree with you, sew, and I'm not going to belabor the point. My sentiment and my feeling about Jalen
Brown is this. I think Jalen Brown is an awesome player. I think Jalen Brown, even Jalen Brown believes that he's an awesome player. And the thing that I'm beginning to see and what I've been seeing over the last couple of years, that is starting to kind of bring the bigger question in a
room, who wants to be the top dog for the Boston Celtics. And you know what, it should never even get to that, because if you're coming up the same way that both of these guys came up, there's more than enough ball for them both to be the quintessential pillars for this team to be as successful as they ought to be. But I'm beginning to see where a little bit of that mentality in that mind state. And I don't blame Jalen Brown. I don't blame him at all. You don't come into the
NBA so that you can decide to be second fiddle of someone. You decide to find your level of greatness. And if you feel your level of greatness can't be around the guys you're playing next to you, then that might mean
you need to go elsewhere to go find your greatness. The question will always be do you sacrifice that personal level of greatness in order for you to win a championship or do you go and get your greatness and then later on decide to go and play with teams to try and go and chase for chips. You know what I'm saying. And we've seen where some guys have failed, and we've seen where some guys have succeeded. All I'm saying, Shaw is
is that there's a reckoning that is starting to happen. And part of it is not more so about the player and the money as much as it is about the mentality and the agenda. And that's what I think Celtics fans, Celtics personnel, and even Jalen Brown himself really need to start looking at because the next few years, I really think is going to dictate whether or not we truly believe. Like I'm not saying that they're not a great duel.
What I'm saying is is that the window for that level of greatness has been over the last five years, and we've been giving them, not excuses, but we've been basically giving them the benefit of the doubt of their youthfulness to say they will eventually get it. I'm saying that now that patience may wear thin enough that the threading for them to be able to re up and do this again may not have the same effect as when they were nineteen twenty years
old and first coming up along in the Celtics organization. Well, he said, I'm mouthful obviously, you know, and I'm gonna take you all the way back to the three point shooting. That was Missoula. Missoula wanted him to fire more threes. He felt like offensively, they were staggered at the end of last year and didn't have enough, and they thought the three ball
could be a way to get that get that done. Unfortunately for them, you know, guys like Sam Houser and whatever maybe didn't plan out the way they wanted to. But Mossoula also didn't put him in a position to contribute. I think in the playoffs, you know, to continue with that whole mantra, and the Celtics lost Callinaro to begin the year. UM don't know what the season would have looked like had Gallo been healthy, and what the
situation will be with him presumably healthy going into next season. Al Horford is a guy Garrett Washburn told me this, you know, on the show I do with him. He said, but Al Horford now shoots almost seventy percent of his shots from the three point seventy percent, and when he came into the league, I think he like it was like less than ten percent of
his shots for three pointers. Now, obviously the league has evolved and so has Al in a lot of ways, but there's that there should still be have the media, and I think that's where the team does lack a little bit of discipline because they just got and just camp out of the three point line. And what will bring me to my point here is it's in some ways I can live with the threes if the ball isn't just swinging around on
the perimeter. The best threes are the ones where the ball touches the paint and the ball kicks back out and the defense is consistently rotating in and out, which you see with Boston is maybe four guys out on the perimeter, and maybe one guy kind of struggling, maybe at at the low block, if that's Rob Williams in the game, or maybe somebody struggles to the free
throw line. But for the most part, there's not just a lot of penetration, a lot of great paint touches, especially with Tatum and Brown not having the handle that either one of them ultimately want to have for all NBA guys. So what I think also needs to happen for this team is we know Payton Pitcher doesn't want to be in Boston. Grant Williams, we're not sure wants to be in Boston, but he definitely wants to pay raise.
Can they figure out a way to get a guy who can actually penetrate And I don't know if that's another guard because it does create another log jam with Marcus there and Derek White, etc. Etc. But is it a wing who can who has some sort of playmaking skills and ball handling ability. I don't know, but those are the things I've never seen needs to ultimately addressed. I've never seen a group of guys be so scared going to the paint bro like I say that not you know, I'm saying that facetically, I'm
saying that when they do, they get ripped. Yeah, but I mean that that that's fine. But I mean that's that's exactly where you earn your stripes. That's where you look. That's where Derek White earned his keep, right. He's he stays in the NBA because he's doing the things that I think a lot of people don't think that he's capable of doing or is not expected to do when he goes and he does those things, and that,
to me is partly what I thought that the Celtics needed. Um Again, to your point, the Celtics have done a great job this year showing other teams how they can bail them out of looking bad by them looking bad themselves. You know what I'm saying. I mean, honestly, the turnovers. Shaw, Seriously, bro, I'm not saying that the Celtics were among the best teams and turning the ball over that's what killed them last year in the in the championship. Okay, but it wasn't like this is a this is
you know, out of nowhere. This is a learned behavior. This is the risk taking that is involved, and we see that with a lot of teams. They're willing to risk turning the ball over a couple of times if it's gonna give them that quote quote unquote the shot, it's gonna give them that spark, it's gonna give them that run. They'll take that all day, every day. The problem is they don't have a plan B out of
that. They don't have a contingency out of it when it flips on its head and then it basically becomes a seven point swing in a two point game. You see what I'm saying. Like that type of stuff, there doesn't doesn't seem to be a plan B when it comes to the Celtics, either all in on this one part of the strategy or nothing at all, and you cannot operate that way. The best teams that go out and win championship always have a plan B, CD, eat and F. That's how the
Warriors beat the Celtics last year. That's how the Miami Heat beat the Celtics this year. That's how the Denver Nuggets beat the Los Angeles Lakers. You know what I'm saying, And it's amazing to me because we've been saying this for the longest time now. With the Celtics, and in this past series against the Miami Heat Shaw it was right. It was staring at them right
in the face. Everybody's talking about how they shot forty percent in the games that they won from three, but nobody put emphasis on the fact that they were shooting except for Charles Barkley. My god, Charles Barkley. They shot seventy percent in the paint. They were plus fifteen in rebounds, but by the time the game ended, they were in the negative right in their rebounding against the team or there. They completely abandoned shooting the two, and their
three points shot percentage plummeted down to the low thirties. You know what I'm saying. It amazes me, Sean, I'm just saying it amazes me because it's not like the personnel doesn't have the capacity to at least attempt to do it. When they were completely doing it. Well, you might be being generous again the three point shooting. I think they were being generous sixteen for seventy two or something like that in the final two games from the three line.
Um Horford, I was only talking about the games that they won. I was only talking about the games they won. No, I'm saying in the final two games, though more or less, you know, even that they won one of those games and then still lost and they were still like absurd percentage. And I agree, but that goes back to scheme. And so when we think about, you know, Darvin hamm got better throughout the course of the year, what they flawed roster. We talked about the Lakers
on the previous segment. I think Missoula had a talented roster and didn't probably do as much as he possibly could. And that's hard to say because again I listened intently to what Brad Stevens talked about on his press conference, and in the regular season, Boston was second and third respectively offensive rating and defensive rating. I mean, that's that's what it was. But in the playoffs there was a different level of intensity that they weren't unable to match. And
you know, they should have lost probably to philadelphan seventy six ers. They probably should have lost Game six and not even been in Game seven against the Miami Heat anyway, And that speaks to not just a talent conversation, but ultimately an execution conversation that I think is really at the heart of where Boston is going to go. But there are some exs and ows that need to be fixed in they're awesome personnel conversations that I think that need to be fixed
as well too, and roll definement in some ways. I don't think tat mc brown being playmakers consistently is the best way for them. I think you can move Tatum and Brown specifically around on the offense, especially in that zone against Miami or whoever decides to play zone against them. Moving forward, Yo, play Papa shot. My guy Gara Osborne said, have Tatum come to
the freethrow line to the nail Papa shot. Have him start from the freethrow I mean from the baseline and work his way up and you know, do some backscreening and cuts for Tatum, I mean for Brown rather, there doesn't just have to be on the wings outside the perimeter and then go. And
I think that's where there's just something a little bit how come? How come at this point we have not seen an an affluent two man game between Brown and Tatum because they can't dribble, So it's a it's like to run that two man game, especially if you're going to run it in any type of
pick and roll. Those guys need to be elite level ball handlers. And while Tatum's handle has gotten better, it's not at the point where I think he should be creating, you know, off the dribble, especially with with Brown as as a as a screener in any capacity, do you find him to be good passers? They are at Tatum is a better pass than than Brown is, right. I think they're they're they're above average, and they're
they're better than maybe even I give them credit for. Tatum has had multiple games where it really seems to get some guys involved him because he can utilize his size. His problem is when he know when he gets into trouble double teams and triple teams, he should see that coming before. Now he has to make a bad pass, make the initial pass and maybe you don't have
to get into those some of those situations. But I think that's something that they can both probably improve on. But to me, it's the handle. They gotta be able to get better dribbling or they need better table setters for them to get them in motion as opposed to for them having to create themselves. Yeah, so how do we eulogize this? Boston Celtics team Shaw. They to me, are probably the toughest to eulogize because it's not about the
expectation that they you know, of them going to the finals. Like like we were talking about when we were watching this series against the Miami Heat, I would have just preferred that they just got blown out in the water and got swept, so that this way I could be honest about my feelings and saying that this team is still not ready even though I wanted them to be ready, and it would have validated that really was all about that second half
hype that got them to this particular point. But when you see what they showed you through the course of the regular season, and I know that part of it is the mentality their approach to how they should be looking at this. You know, the one thing that really sticks out at me when I think about the Celtics Shaw is that they don't have that killer instinct. They have preservation in them, They have this level of yeah, we deserve to be in that conversation. I think we deserve to be here, But they
don't have that killer instinct. They don't have like that that to me that I'm gonna put my foot on somebody's neck. They seem to still keep playing with their food, bro And that, to me is the thing that disturbs me. When you've got guys as talented as this, you got guys who say that you know, they sat down and had conversations with Kobe Bryant,
and you know they lean on all of it. All of that means nothing, because in the grand scheme of things, what you do is don't allow teams who you have been playing against over the last three four years expose you even further to where you are, not even in your talents, but more so in your approach to how you see the competition. Well, I mean it was a collective failure, you know, I think top down. I mean, if you're going to I'll do these quick glancing blows if you will.
I think Stevens probably had a misstep by only getting Mike Muscala at the trade deadline. Amscala was a non factor. They needed another wing, and with the way second round picks were going in the deadline and for depth that Celtics obviously clearly needed, they probably should have did more there too. Obviously we talked about them not getting more assistance there and Mozoula didn't do enough for ast year coach in a high high, highly volatile situation. So he'll get
better, but he needs support. And I think the players themselves, as you alluded to, I think that's a great, great line. They have preservation skills, but that killer instinct has never really been there for them. And as much as we love and law A tot Tatum and Brown, there's another level to this. There's a dog level to this that they just are
not quite at yet, and nobody on the team is. So they just tried to do it by overall team talent and chemistry and front run so that they don't have to kind of look themselves in the mirror and kind of dig themselves out when things get really, really really rough, you know, once things starts to go off off off the rails. They've had a hard time kind of riding the ship. That's but again that's not a it's not necessarily
a roster thing, as it is a kind of an internal situation. So when you're probably probably eulogizing them, I look at a team that has one hundred and sixty three million dollars in contracts committed. They got to figure out what they're doing with Grant Williams And if not, then you know, how does that replace? How does Gallinari come back if he comes back next year,
and what role does he play? But this roster is pretty much landlocked for a little while here now, and I think it's now it's a matter of can they get over the proverbial hump and unfortunately, well fortunately slash unfortunately for them the last two years. Saved Tatum's ankle injury to begin the Eastern Game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals. They've been mostly healthy. Can you
can you count on that year over year over year? And I don't know that you can, especially with the way the things are changing and everybody else is trying to improve and get better. I think they all have a long road ahead of them. This should have been their year and it wasn't, and they're going to look themselves in their mirror and really regret. You know, there's twenty two, twenty twenty three season soul searching, right, soul
searching? I mean, this team definitely needs to do some serious soul searching. Don't come have us look for their soul. You know what I'm saying. We were not them boys? We got white jackets on. You don't want us come in searching for their souls, right, so they need to find them. They need to find their souls themselves, and hopefully there will be a better version of the bus and Celtics. You know, they'll be
right back where they you know, where they were this time around. But it'll be interesting to see what version of them comes into that, you know, Eastern quote unquote Eastern Conference Finals. If they get to that point, you know, will they be able to truly appreciate the difficulties and how hard it is to be able to do this for as long as they've been doing
it and finally see this thing through. And I think the only way that you're going to see that is you see that maturation through the course of the regular season. You know, people pooh poohed the regular season, it's too many games? Is that in the third the regular season is exactly the reason why it is because you you begin to see what the team truly manifests itself after going through all of that, of what they're going to need in order
to get to that next level, to take that next level. And it's ironic that the one team that everybody completely counted out. Was the one team that exposed their soul one year to the date of what they did to them in return. Awesome, just I mean, you couldn't have you couldn't have written written it better. It's just awesome. And we thank you the Miami Heat. We ought to probably bring the Miami Heat metal examiners. And it's the next time we start doing these autopsy reports. We'll see them soon.
Oh man, this has been an awesome show. Shaw. You know we we we've been been touch and go. Man. Even even our technology is was on the uh you know what I'm saying, it was flatlining a little bit. We somehow made made it work and we pulled it through to be able to properly autopsy the Lakers and the Celtics. Yeah, and the longer this goes, I was crossing my finger hopefully my WiFi didn't give out, but you know, the internet gauzes said go ahead and eulogize. You know,
these Boston Celtics and this lost they're probably Nuggets fans. They were probably Nuggets do it one time for you know, for for for the podcast industry. So um, there's always pleasure to be here with you. My guy. Hope our friends listeners enjoy this one. Let us know what you think about the Lakers and Celtics. What should they do this offseason? How will they be better? Will they both be back in the conference finals respectively?
Or you know where the team's ultimately usurped them? Where do you say? Expect big changes with those teams and rosters um with trades or whatever the helse or potentially retirements coming along in the case of one Lebron James So great show, I say, this summer league is gonna be interesting. I'll tell you that summer league will be very interesting. We'll see we'll be sitting in front row. When when when the when? When? When the when? The
Pistons play the uh play the Suns. As always, man, we appreciate using you and yours for hopping on a board with us this week for the baseline. Kylie Warrenshaw, we appreciate you guys. You know we do. We'll catch up with you next time.