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Welcome everybody, your tune to the baseline Cali Warrant shot discussing hot button topics of the NBA.
We are kicking.
Off this week's show because the NBA Cup is finally hit, the Emirates Cup. Okay, it's big, it's grand Rosario Dawson's in. I mean, damn, Michael Imperioli is is speaking right like, you know what I'm saying. It's on, it's popping, it's soprano, it's sopranos meets he is, he got game. It's just you know what I'm saying. It's beautiful, it's magnificent. And of course, what would be a discussion about the second
NBA Cup without the baseline boys talking about it. Let me go out and roll out the red carpet to the right hand man Www. Dot sh sports at net big on the you see my man, mister Warres show rapping out Fort Londo, Florida. What's good, my man? I know you are so amped up, you are so excited. No politics, pure talk, NBA Cup, it's own baby.
Yeah, let's let's tell that joint let's sell it. It is not going anyway. So it's one of those things as the tide of advertisement kind of flows over and washes over us, you know, in the Adam Silver NBA, like it's not going anywhere. So while there was I think a little bit better understanding of it for this for the second go around, now they got sponsorps, you know, sponsorship,
shout out the Emirates. I don't know that it's still if it is hitting where everybody wants it, because as you alluded too off air, and we can get into this, like briefly, technically, the two best teams do not perform well enough to be in the in the NBA.
I don't know what well enough is supposed to mean. Weren't they three and one or something like that. What what's well enough for three.
And one the calf or two and two. You know, they only have four losses on the entire year, but they lost two of those in the Cup and then therefore the Celtics were not in. Based on whatever the
tiebreaker was between Orlando and the Knicks. Orlando didn't lose by twenty six points, so that allowed them to take the tiebreaker over Boston from what My understanding of all of this is despite having identical in three and one records either way, the two best teams are not in the semi finals for this joint, which in some ways is good and in some ways I think is bad as well too, because it allows other teams to get exposure.
You know, I think you could go back to last year the Indiana Pacers and and Tireo's Haliburn, that magical run they had, although they didn't capture the flag there if you will, they were able to get to the NBA to the NBA Cup Finals, if you will, and lose to the to the Los Angeles Clapers, and now you have some other teams in there looking Orlando's I think is kind of like this year's Indiana looking for that kind of that pseudo validation as a young team that's up and coming.
Oh, you can also make the argument about Dahlanta Hawks, but I'd agress. There are teams that we will be quickly discussing shortly as far as you know our previews and predictions with regards to this year's Emirates NBA Cup.
So you know, all of that is will and good.
And then also on this week's show, you know, Shaw, you know's mind was working, you know what I'm saying, you know, burning the midnight oil, thinking has the NBA become too infatuated with the three? Or has the game of basketball become too infatuated with the three? And I think it marked you know, it warrants you know, a
pretty good conversation to be had. So Sean and I will kind of dig in a little bit on where we are with this, you know, with today's NBA in comparison to you know, our yester generations right and and figure out like, is there a problem with the NBA and the propensity of the three ball really kind of hijacking you know, the beauty of the game being played? And I think that warrants a good conversation to be had. So good stuff to be discussed on this week's edition.
Of the Baseline.
As always, be sure to get in my man Shaw Ashaws Sports, NBA Get at Me a game face leader shows Twitter hand on NBA basedline available on all the major platforms. You know where to find us, be sure to go to www. Dot the Baseline NBA dot com. So now let check out this episode, but also the episodes that we drop for your listening pleasure. If you see us on the YouTube channel and you see us with the blue and white logo, that is the nineteen
Media Group family. So we'd like to say hello and to you and yours who are down or who are just listening in and want to capture some of the great content that's out there. Definitely go to www dot Ninetemediagroup dot com. Nineteen Media Group family be running these content streets, mane. We got a great, great, great family of content creators producing all kinds of you know, great topics, storylines,
discussions for your listening ears. Man, So we encourage you to go to Ninetemediagroup dot com to check out our family and to hear everything out. Whether it's music, politics, entertainment, news, sports, you name it. Nineteen Media Group has got it. So Shaw, let's get right into it, man and the Emirates NBA Cup. The knockout Round will begin this week, starting in November. I'm sorry not but I think it's December. December, the
tenth Okay, So the knockout round will be as follows. Yes, clearly, the knockout round we'll go as followed. The Oklahoma City Thunder will take on the Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets will take on the Golden State Warriors, Milwaukee Bucks will take on Orlando Magic, and the New York Knicks will take on the Atlanta Hawks.
I will say this.
Real quick, Shaw, these are some pretty good matchups, right. I like the matchup between the Thunder and the Dallas Mavericks. I find that the Rockets and the Golden State Warriors
is a very interesting matchup in and of itself. I think people should pay attention to and the Knicks and the Hawks, while you know, you feel like there's a level of a rivalry there, you know what I'm saying, Like it's kind of like because the Hawks, you know, we've been down on the Hawks so much that it's hard to see whether or not, like the Knicks not giving an inch to the Hawks. But listen, the Hawks.
They're one of those teams like one minute they're on, next minute, you know they're cold, right, And then I know we're gonna get into our conversation with the Bucks in the Orlando Magic, which I think could have been a which would have been hopefully a really, really really good contest. But you know, an important injury that we've obviously just learned is impacted that. So I think that
there's some interesting matchups here with regards to that. But to your point and what you alluded to, the fact that the two best teams in the NBA arguably are not participating in this NBA Cup, And I get it, you know, you got to win the games, you know, within the Cup. You know, again, I'll get into my you know, soliloquily or get on my soapbox on this
some other time. You know, with the way this thing is still being set up, with with how this plays it, it's just kind of interesting to me that we're gonna
be playing. You know, there's gonna be a Cup being had without those guys, because I think if you inserted either of these two teams in any one of these other particular matchups, maybe say take out the Magic or maybe take out the Hawks, maybe take out the Rockets, or you know what I'm saying, like those are gonna be some really really intriguing matchups that probably could be had.
But I again, out of these that I've mentioned, which one are you really keeping your eye on and saying, hmm, this is definitely one with whoever comes out of this, you gotta be hard pressed not to think that they'll be the favorite.
Yeah, I'm gonna go by the aspect of what was what last year's Western Conference in my finals, OKAC and the Dallas Mavericks. I think that's gonna be the most amount of fun. Both teams are relatively healthy, while the even OKC does not have Cheded Holmgren, you know, but they do have heart and sign back and he's been playing really great, I mean the crap out of the
basketball since since returning. I'm in Okacs is on pace for a historic defensive season in addition to all the Macineese since they have in terms of the overall at depth. So for me, Okayse and Dallas is the premier matchup I think of the of the semi finals right now. And while I'll obviously have a lot of interest in what happens in Atlanta and New York and Houston and Golden States, which with Houston, you know, rising in the
Western Conference in a faster way than the many. With thought, can they take out the old guard with the Warriors who had such a quick heart start hot start to the season but now have kind of come back to earth, but played well enough in the NBA Cup to kind of capture you know, what's he here in the semifinals. So for me, okay, see Dallas by far and away the premier matchup of the first four games of the semi finals, and then we'll see what happens once once those teams get to the finals.
From there, yeah, I like the Rockets and the Warriors.
But to your point, the okay, see Thunder and Dallas Mavericks, I think is a key matchup. I'll be honest with you, shall I think whoever comes out of the West between those two matchups I think might be to me the front runner to one of winning at all because I just look at the rosters up and down, and I know, like a lot of people, they probably are looking at the Knicks, probably looking at the Milwaukee Bucks, who've been,
you know, on an uptick. But I just feel like from a defensive perspective, you really can't go wrong with all four of those teams.
Coming out of the West.
I think the Warriors play pretty good defense, the Rockets certainly can play solid defense, and they've got the bodies. The Mavericks they're battle tested. It's just I think a question whether or not you know, they really really want it, like you know, they want to win this NBA Cup, and whoever they play against coming out of the East, I think it's gonna be a you know, basically a
battle of attrition so to speak. You know, coming into that championship game between the Knicks and the Bucks, which I think people are gonna say those are going to be the two to advance in the semifinals out of the East. You know, which of those really top to bottom, you know, are gonna come out unscathed and be fully healthy ready to go to play in that championship game.
You know, I like the New York Knicks and that one, you know, to come out just because I think from a team perspective, they just have a better well rounded team. I think they get a little bit more from their
bench from a depth perspective. But you never know, you know, the Bucks can ride a hot hand and if you have a dominant gianis Attatakumpo, which you can make the argument shall with all of the remainder remaining teams, but the exception of of Shae gilisund Alexander and I think Kyrie Irving maybe not more so than Luka Donkis because I think Luka Donkis is still not one hundred percent, and I don't think he's worried about whether or not
he's got to be one hundred percent. If I just think if you have a dominant Janis Attatakoumpo, which is just running rough shot through the whole thing, Yeah, the Bucks definitely have a chance to take it. But I I don't see it enough. I don't see it enough with consistency to buy into the Bucks, you know, and you know, taking it all.
Yeah, I don't disagree. You know, if we want to skip ahead a little bit too, I think this is okay. Sees Cup to lose, like they're built for regular season
and postseason success. And I think what we're what we're seeing or hearing from is that a lot of these younger teams are utilizing the Cup as their playoff preparation in terms of the level of intensity that you're playing for something, you know what I mean, there's there's there is a trullion end goal at the end of this dollar amount and obviously the opportunity to raise a banner. So call it if you will, into your arena at some point too. But they're just bragging rights and pride
that come along with this. And okay, see as a team that is looking to take steps outside of the Cup and actually win the actual NBA championship, Blair O'Brian, I think they're probably the best poison in essens to do that and set up set up for this, for this, for this win right here too. However, the Lakers, sorry
they led Lakers. The league gets very lucky. Is never that, okay, but they have The league gets very lucky in terms that they have another legacy guy or team in there right now with the Warriors still finding their way to be in this. So they love nothing more than Curry and and and Shay to kind of go up in the West Finals, if you will, and then maybe Curry to get it into the into the overall Cup finals
against who are from the East. What I'm seeing, though, you know, if we can jump around a little bit though, is Atlanta is on a wave right now. They're playing extremely great basketball. Enough can't be said about what Trey Young is doing as a leader. We've always we said, hey, we want you to be more than just kind of like the stat padding individual. Because he's always been up there to second or third in assists like every single year, but it just felt a little bit empty. He really
is making guys better. The emergence of Jalen Johnson as a secondary playmaker in addition to a rebounder and a score I think has been immense. What they're getting out of reshould say, you know, to a lesser extent, Bogdanovich is now back and healthy, DeAndre Hunter, Dyson Daniels. Atlanta's really really kind of like the hottest of the teams, especially in the Eastern Conference that I think right now as we're recording the play games, see I keep their
winning streak alive. But they've beaten Milwaukee this year, They've beaten the Knicks this year. I would not count them out in the season that a lot of people did count them out in, and if Trey Young and company can continue that, I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the Cup Final.
Yeah.
Again, last year we saw that with the Pacers. Right, you beat the right team, you catch them in the right time, and if your style of basketball, which I think in many regards what you see from the Atlanta Hawks kind of similar to what you saw last year
from the Indiana Pacers. And while the Pacers are a team that currently clearly is struggling, I think that's more of the players than it is really, you know, the style of basketball, because I think they enjoy playing and it's just not it's not equating to the level of wins that they were able to amass last season. The Atlanta Hawks, I think are just now entering in that space where this style of basketball is now catching on with them, or they're catching up to this style of basketball.
I think this is where Quinn Snyder always wanted to go. But did you have enough players who has the maturity in order to execute this style of offense that they're
playing it right? And again, I'm sure everybody is going to be predicted the New York Knicks to basically walk through into the semi finals playing this Atlanta Hawks team because you look at the roster and the Knicks clearly can be a better team defensively, they can clearly have they have more playmakers, but they also have their struggles where they're able to get everybody on the same page and get everybody involved in everybody contributing.
And if you're the.
Atlanta Hawks and you're in your zone with what you do, what you execute offensively, getting the most out of Jail and getting the most out of Rischiusheer, getting the most out of Chrey Young's ability to make those guys better.
Yes, I completely agree with you.
I think that they can catch the Knicks, you know what I'm saying, on a fast one over the course of a seven game series, though, that'd be tough. But if you want to, if you want to embolden you know what I'm saying, you really want to instill confidence. Yeah, have them come out there and put one on the New York Knicks. And I think a lot of people what this will also do will start questioning again, are
the Knicks ready to take that next step? Because you can't be losing again teams like the Atlanta Hawks, which clearly on paper you look like you should be the better team anyway.
But again, this is why you do these This is why you have the NBA Cup.
Yeah, I mean for me, you know when you talk about I don't know. I don't know if we're at a stage where winning the NBA Cup is setting some symblans of a message to the league, right, because look what happened to the Lakers last year. But I do feel like there's a lot of pride, especially for these for some of these younger teams, and for all intentsive purposes, right the Thunder, the MAVs, the Warriors, to maybe a
lesser extent, all have championship aspirations in the Western Conference. Orlando, we know, was trying to surprise some teams, but now with Fronz Wagner suffering the same injury that Paulo ben Carroll has with the oblique, Orlando's probably going to be counted out of actually winning this thing. But we also have Milwaukee up in this joint and with the Knicks up in this So for all intentsive purposes, there are five teams who came into the league, came into the
season rather with championship aspirations. Whether they were you know, you wanted to believe in them or not, they believed in them. And I don't think Orlando feel like they're championship team, so that's why I'm kinding them out. In Atlanto certainly not, and Houston obviously not as well too. But I think those other teams feel like, hey, things break right, we could have been here.
So who do you think So who do you think needs it more? Right, Like of these teams that were saying what.
I'm getting to, right, So, I think it's it's the aspect of if if, if you if if you're looking for it to be a message. I think Okay, See probably needs it the most, right, especially as a younger team that is that was a number one seed in the Western Conference is right now the number one seed in the Western Conference again to kind of show like, hey, we can get over those proverbial mental hurdles and so forth and win kind of that I wouldn't say the
highest stage, but at an elevated stage, right. And then I think who I know is going to be going for it the most is probably the Knicks because of TIBs and his overall just overall, his his machismo, if you will, and he's going to play all the minutes for all the guys. I don't know what's going on with Karl athink Town. I know we missed a game versus Pistons over the weekend. I assume he'll be back, you know, for the Cup, and that shouldn't be much
of a much of an issue. But I think those are the two teams are going to be gunning for the hardest if you will, that are realistic in terms of have a chance to make it to their conference finals and then ultimately the NBA Finals as well. But again, I think Atlanta is probably feel of the most disrespected out of all this group here too. And I don't want to forget about you.
Well, and that's okay, so real quick, because you know I know that you know, we obviously have that big conversation we want to have about the three. But as much as I think you're to what you're saying that OKC needs this more to win the Cup, I honestly feel they just need this game.
I don't know.
I think they need to Yeah, I just think they need to beat the Dallas Mavericks. Whether the Dallas Mavericks want to go for this or not, I think this is more about okac's ability to say we are ready to play you under whatever those circumstances are. And I think, look, if they beat the Dallas Mavericks, I think you have a whole lot of confidence riding that they should be
able to go through and ultimately win this. We know that the other teams are going to be a problem for them, but I'm just saying to me, I think their NBA Cup starts in this knockout round with the Dallas Mavericks, and I think the team that I think needs to win it all is the team that you just mentioned last Atlanta Hawks, because of the fact that they have been disrespected because it's not been what four or five years removed they were playing in the Eastern
Conference Finals, you know what I'm saying, And since then
they've been nothing but going downhill. And I think if you really want to validate the idea that you went through the transition of moving on for McMillan, going in with Snyder, having you know, making that big move to get Deontay Murray, then moving him out, leaving staying with Trey Young, and then you know, I'm not saying tanking, but ultimately landing this first round pick using that to get a foreign born player, right, rather than probably getting
a couple of other players that may be more solid for what Quinn may have wanted.
Maybe Quinn wants Richards Shre don't know.
All I'm saying is there are a lot of things where there could be question marks, and the level of disrespect certainly hangs over the head of the Atlanta Hawks, that I think by getting into this they, more than anyone, should be motivated to run through everyone because you've got teams lined up who everyone else believes are gonna wind up being better than you by the end of the year.
And if you go in and you win this Cup, you will basically make a statement to the Eastern Conference that we may be the team that you should not be sleeping on if we continue to keep hanging around by the time we start talking about playoff seeds or going by trade deadline, you know. So that was my take on that as far as what who I see needs it more and who I think needs it most.
I think the least likely, based on the injury right now, is Orlando, you know, even getting past Milwaukee and then ultimately into the final of the Cup, right I think that's the least likely scenario. But I can take the ride with you, you know, on Atlanta in terms of their of their feelings of disrespect and then also the aspect of how much it could propel them going forward into the season. As they arrived this, you know, I think they're on a five or six game winning streak as
we record right now. If they're able to extend that, you know, seven eight games if you will, Hey, then that means there are their NBA Cup Champs potentially on the other side of the bracket. A similar conversation could
be had about the Houston Rockets. Yes, and you know when in terms of their own feelings of validation of winning on XYZ stage, Like Boston didn't make the Cup final last year, they got beat you know, in the knockout round I guess against the Indiana Pacers, right, and then ultimately they instill went on to win the NBA Championship. So I think certain teams don't need that level of validation.
I do think it's kind of funny.
I do think it's funny that you brought up the Celtics because remember, the Pacers beat the Celtics, but the Celtics beat the Pacers in the East Conference finals. Yes, albeit the Pacers were now one hundred percent, but nevertheless, I'm sure the Pacers would wish that they were able to they could switch places.
You can have the Cup, we want to go to the NBA shows, Yeah.
For sure. But I mean I think in terms of everything we thought was gonna happen for Nian, the last year didn't necessarily happen for Indiana last year in the way that it was projecting like they were coming out like world beaters. Then they kind of, you know, for some people's taste, if you will, got lucky in terms of their draws with a lot of people being injured in terms of how they ran up things, and then ultimately ran up against the Boston Celtics team that was
relatively healthy. Then they got hurt themselves. Right, But I think Houston and Atlanta are looking at opportunities here now to say, like, hey, as young teams that nobody expected to be here, can we go out here, get to the Cup final? One of us win this thing, and what does that now do for the rest of our projections for the regular season, assuming health for both teams. I'm excited for this. I'm just worried about Houston's ability
to score the basketball, especially at this elevated stage. I don't want to say the highest sage, but that's elevated stage, you know. Will it be Jyllan Green, will it be Shangun, will be Van Vleet, I don't I don't know, but they got to get past first, and I think that's a tall.
Order, absolutely, especially with the way that the Warriors play, you know, defensively. But you know, you're catching the Warriors who have been struggling over the last few games.
I think they've lost the last three of their five.
But then they be Houston.
Yeah, and they go figure right without that, I'm sure, and I'm sure I'm sure they're a static like, oh, what away for us to help get right right?
The ship? Right?
All right, sea, real quick, let's run through it. What are our predictions. Who's coming out of the knockouts, who's making the semis, who's making the who's making the finals, who's hoisting the ship?
Yeah, after all I said and done, I am going to take okay See over Denver. I'm going to take the Rockets over the Warriors, and I'm going to take okay See over Houston to get to the Cup final. And on the east side, I'm going to take Milwaukee over Orlando kind of you know, no disrespect, just par for the course. And I'm going to take Atlanta to upset the Knicks here you know, in that. But then I'm going to actually take the Bucks to somehow get past all the things we just said. All these are
all hypotheticals. I think Giannis and Dame have something that they are. They also want to prove doc Rivers as well. They just got Milton back. I think they end up in the Cup final against Okay see, but I'm gonna take the thunder to win this joint nice.
I like it. I like it. I like it.
Your tune to the Baseline Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics.
Of the NBA coming up.
Has the NBA three or has the NBA gotten too happy with the three? I think it's time that we actually have this conversation. I don't know, maybe it's time that we actually have to have an intervention, a three vention in regards to this conversation, right, like, is it too much?
Is it too much?
Sewan and I will dig into it. But first, are you craving NonStop NBA hoops action? NBA League Pass is your ticket to the ultimate basketball experience. Enjoy live games, on demand replays, and exclusive behind the scenes content across a variety of devices. With the NBA League Pass, you'll get more access to your favorite NBA content. Stay up with the NBA, Like the Baseline does, be sure to go and sign up now and type link dot NBA dot com slash LP nineteen MG. That's link dot NBA
dot com slash LP nineteen mg. More baseline Cali Warrenshaw, don't go anywhere. We are back Cali Warrenshaw baseline NBA Podcasts, and our main breakdown topic is centered around an interesting conversation that is being had now. I know, and I'm sure Sean you probably also know this as well too. This is not a conversation that is new. I think
this conversation has been had a couple of times. But I think as we start, you know, really looking at where the landscape of the NBA is now, especially as we're on the precipice of this new TV deal that the NBA has landed, I think a good question that we should be asking is, you know, are we in a space where the popularity of the game and how the game is played is viable with the expectations of what this NBA deal is And in other words, in
Layman's term, has the NBA gotten three happy? Is there too much of an infatuation of the players the style of the play where the three ball takes precedence and in doing so, is that taking away from the aesthetics of people's enjoyment of watching again following the game, the
popularity of the game continually moving up. I think it brings a lot of things into Playshaw And this is probably as good a time as any for us to have this conversation because you and I, as being transgenerational followers of this game, we have seen the evolution of where the game of the NBA only had the three point shot as a necessity. Now it is primal and literally it is the foundation for all teams to essentially become successful because of the way and the style of the game being played.
The style of the NBA, as you alluded to, especially for us as obviously it's changed a lot. I mean we can go back to, you know, our days watching the league early days, then playing some video games, and then you know, guys who could shoot threes were almost like cheat codes if you were playing certain certain games or wherever the case it be.
I mean, they designed the cheat codes for these cats to shoot the three.
That's how you know, I'll remember. I think it was Dale Ellis, you know what I mean. Dale Ellis used to be like ridiculous and Chuck Person, the rifleman back from the Indiana Pacers. As everybody knows about Reggie Miller, right, but how many people know about Chuck Percy, know without what he was out there like gunsling in that thing from three and more recently the NBA on T and
T crew. I think Charles Barkley, you know, he came out and said, I'll paraphrase his quotes, just you know, fans are not just going to want to go out there and see a bunch of guys jack up threes. You know, guys don't shoot layups. They don't they don't do mid range anymore. It's just a matter of strategy right now. If you shoot threes, we win. If we
don't shoot threes, we lose. And he doesn't feel like that's his strategy, and that is catching a little bit of fire, you know, as the league's ratings are downs, and you know we have this big TV deal. I think, as you're alluding to as well too, like that's coming up here. People are still invested in the business of the NBA, still want to be involved, but fans are
tuning out air quote, so to speak. But I don't know if it's so much as a matter of the amount of threes and maybe that's some of it, but will present some data here that kind of would negate some of that. But is it also the is there too many games? Because football is you know, once a week and you know you have the those eighteen weeks that you go through in the NFL season to see your team, and the same thing on the college side or whatever. Whether there's eighty two in basketball, what is
the one to sixty two? You know in baseball? Like it just might be too much content that that the NBA is trying to put out there that fans are not tuning into. But the flip side of that too, outside of the threes is do we have still the proverbial star power? And I think that's something that is as big of a as big as a motivating factor
for league ratings as anything else. While you and I are predisposed and kind of have to watch this like we we are going to be we have a basically have a basketball podcast, so we're going to follow it as closely as possible. So we know Sga is dope, We know Luca is dope, and and and and Yoker Joker is dope as well too. But Luca, and and and and Joker. They don't necessarily want to be faces
of the league. Giannis as well too, like, hey, he's cool, but he's not really trying to be out there like that. So when it comes to the ratings things, it's more than just a three point shooting. It's all of those things that I think are impact in the league at its at its at its kind of inflection point here too.
But three point shooting I think is getting the biggest bulk of the of the attention and the fault because you see the Celtics out here now shooting fifty to fifty five to three is a game, and now everybody is kind of doing the same thing here so far in twenty twenty four. But the data doesn't really seem to impact it in a way negatively that I think some others are saying.
So we were having this conversation off the off the air, you know what I'm saying Shaw as far as what about it is creating the level of uproar, and I think I want to make sure that as we're recording this that I provide you the level of comparison that I made with the with football, right, and I want people to understand this because I am a proponent of a team executing knowing who they are and what they are.
And if that's who you are, then be who you are, right, go out there and be exactly who you are.
If you're the Boston Celtics and.
You have a roster of guys who believe that they can shoot and make the number of threes that they throw up, I have no problem with buying in the idea that this is who you are and this is how you are. But if you're telling me that you're going to win a championship, you have to make sure that you handle the things that I guess sub the submarine, what your style and strategy is, right, Like, you shure
up those things. You're a good offensive rebounding team. You're a solid defensive team, right like, in other words, you minimize the other team's opportunities.
Right.
You're a good transition defense team because if you don't make the three, the other team is going to basically rebound already off to the races. Right, all of those things. This is why the Celtics are the champions last year.
Right.
My biggest pet feev are and shaw I think you and I we agree to this. There are some teams that are just not built like how the Celtics are built. And for whatever reason, the strategy is, You've got guys out there who and I'm not disrespecting them, maybe at some point, if this is what they want to concentrate, this is what they want to do. They want to be able to shoot, you know, eight nine threes per game, maybe making three, four, five of them per game or whatever.
If that's what you aspire to do, have at it. But nowhere am I seeing that on the roster. And as far as strategy goes, some of the players on some of these teams are not built to shoot that three ball the way that they think they're They're being built right. And so now, rather than us being in awe of the Steph Curries, being in awe of the Kevin Durants being in awe of the Klay Thompson's, you got guys like.
You know, LaMelo Ball shooting thirteen.
Threes a night, right, Like is that what he was naturally doing when he came into the league. You know what I'm saying, You're even forcing Chris Paul to shoot threes.
Chris Paul never shot threes.
You know what I'm saying any and everybody now it can just basically jack up a three.
So now by.
Doing that, we're basically taking away from the star power of what made us become enamored with why the three ball was such a great thing to see, Because those guys that were shooting it and hitting it at a high level or high propensity gets minimized when you've got forty other guys now shooting with the same number of attempts and probably only not even making a quarter of the same shots in doing it. And this, to me
is where I think the problem lies. Is it sustainable for the idea of a team to go out and win a championship? If you're true to who you are, no problem. But I guarantee you, when it comes time to win an NBA championship, you cannot tell me that only shooting the three is what's gonna.
Get you that chip.
Just like in football, throwing for five hundred yards might sound great, but when you actually get to the playoffs, you need a legitimate running game. You need quality running attack. You need guys are gonna be able to help extend those plays. When you're passing, attack is minimized or neutralized.
And so that to me is where I think things kind of tail off, is that I think there's just way too many teams who truly believe that they have a formula to be able to shoot the number of threes that teams like the Celtics, teams like the Warriors right, who are built with the roster to do those kind of things. They have no business doing that, and then
because of it, they're not successful. And when they're not successful, it brings down the quality of what you're watching on TV and also brings down the quality of the matchups when you see how these teams operate and play, especially when it comes to playoff time.
So does that then not become more of a coaching issue as people like the copycat league scenario continues to be where we're at. But at the same time, right, we want players to evolve. And what's the first thing we said about Gianni's Like, well, he's got to shoot the three, He's got to be able to space the floor more because people are going to pack the pain against him. So like it's it's a really interesting juxtaposition
because then you can't have things both ways. And then take brook Lopez Giannis's teammate Brook Lopez, like, it's a constant example of somebody who didn't shoot any three for the first x amount of years of his career now is a pretty prolific three point shooter. And space space you use.
The word prolific. You use the word prolific.
Well you have, but I mean, but it's but it's the same aspect, right, like you have to you know, you crawl, then you walk, then you run. So when it comes to the three point development, especially for bigs or anybody out there, even the aspect of three and d guys, hey can you hit the corner three? It's a shorter three, So can you start take one hundred of those a day? Whatever like that? Can you get to that? Then you start to go out to the wing, to the top of the key and so forth and
so forth. Right, So, I think it's really interesting because we want things both ways society and I think as analysts as well, we want people to develop. But then it's like, well, no, you're not. You're And I think to your point, it's like, well you're not ready yet. You can still try to develop those things. But if you go from zero to not taking eight or nine a game that seems a little bit egregious like that,
that's that's probably too much. But I think the the natural progression is usually like hey, one or two, you know what I mean, and then you kind of work your way up if things are going well. But what's really interesting to me is that the data, and this is why the league has switched to this, to this formula league wide coaches and so forth and so forth, is percentages are still largely exactly the same, you know,
over the course of the year. So on our on our YouTube will be presenting you know, a little bit of something here too, you know, kind of talking about you know, NBA shooting kind of like by decade, right, and and so in the in the nineteen eighties, that's way way way back, so we needed to do that. But guys, they shot three and a half three pointers a game as a team, right, twenty eight point nine percent is where that was. Let's fast forward to more
recent times tens. So twenty tens, we're now seeing twenty three point one to three point attempts per game, and guys are shooting roughly thirty five point six percent. In the twenty twenties, we're up to thirty four point eight, so call it thirty five to three point tempts a game at thirty six percent. So even the last ten years thirty five point six team as well, call it thirty six percent. The percentages are almost exactly the same.
And it's to your point, cl it's interesting because like you're seeing certain guys not want like you don't feel like they should be shooting them. But we're at a stage where the percentages are not changing in a way, so why would they not shoot them? Take a guy like Brandon Miller on LaMelo's team is very interesting. You brought the Lamello up shooting thirteen threes a game. Brandon Miller is in the second year. He didn't come into this as like a three point specialist, but he's jacking
up eleven threes a game. Guess what he's shooting shooting thirty six percent. The league average right now for the twenty twenties is thirty six point one. So it's really really interesting. It's like, hey, while everyone is saying these things, the dad does not necessarily backing it up in a in a real meaningful way league wide, right, I think you can say that about certain teams and certain guys for sure, But the aspect of like, hey are they
shooting too many threes? Well, hey, threes are more than twos, so take more attempts at that, especially if the percentages are not going down. If we were at thirty six percent and now drop to thirty two percent, even thirty percent, I'll be all right, Well it's probably too much, but it's staying relatively in the exact same spot league wide.
Would I would be interested Shaw, And again, you know, I want people to understand this isn't a conversation that we're there's not going to be any finality to this. There's actually an evolution to where this could actually lead to. I would be more interested Shaw, not just on the percentages of the attempts and the makes, but also the type of shots, the type of three point shots that are being made. Are these three point shots executed?
You know? Contested? Are they open? Looks right?
Because I to your point, and I think part of this to me is what I'm saying here when I say I don't have a problem with a team shooting that many threes, because what you're saying is, yes, the three is more than the two.
But that's with the confidence of the shot being made. When you don't make that.
Shot, what happens is what then needs to happen, Right, What is going to allow you to get another attempt to shoot that three ball that you're missed on the one previous?
Right?
What is going to allow you to prevent the opposing team from making a shot when you're when you were expected to make that shot.
And I think that's where things go differently.
Right, there are some teams who because of the way that they shoot that three ball, because of the propensity of shots that are being made, which obviously means that the opposition is going to have opportunities to shoot probably as many shots as you, whether they shoot the three or shoot the two. The idea is who's going to stop who more? Who's going to prevent that person from
getting that many shots more? And you look at it, the teams that are probably right now situated are equally to shoot that many threes, are as equally good defensively preventing other teams. Right, So we talk about those same teams that if they're gonna win a championship and they're gonna shoot up that many threes. If you're talking about
winning a championship. Your defense has gotta be solid enough to prevent the other team from making those threes or preventing the teams from getting that many shot attempts up. On a nightly basis, your goal is to shoot more shots than the other team, you know what I'm saying. And it's just interesting to me because it's easy for the coaches to go out there and send the guy out there by the wing or set him out by the you know what I'm saying, by the baseline shoot
that three. But he can't defend worth a lick. He can't stop the other system, he can't close out, you know what I'm saying. And then the other thing is well two shaw ball movement, right, the one thing that we can definitely say about this Celtics team, and I know this was what we talked about in the previews about why we were confident that they should win the championship last year. When you've got guys that arguably are
two way type players. And when I say two A, I don't mean by defending and also shooting the three. When I say two way, I'm saying their versatility to dribble the basketball, move the ball, and also be able to get open cut when you have guys doing that right now, all four guys, not even your fifth, and your fifth literally could do that except he's.
Playing on one leg.
When you've got all five guys doing it, it makes it a whole lot easier, and there's a whole lot more confidence, and it looks a whole lot better when those guys are shooting those threes. When those guys may not make those threes, you can still be like, I have no problem with them going to shoot that again because I know that they can execute it, execute that play in that kind of way. And I give credit
to guys like Missoula. I give credit to guys like Jason Kidd, because if you're gonna make it like this, if you're gonna execute like this, it can't be iso dribbled jack up a three.
You know what I'm saying.
It can't be that way. Look at the Minnesota two, Wolfshaw. That's the problem. Like that, That to me is the is the the opposite. Right, Anthony Edwards is a quality player. He's like, quote unquote the Michael Jordan of our generation with his athleticism at such a young age.
But what is he doing right now? And I was just looking it up.
His attempts at three right now, he's averaging almost eleven threes per game. You know what I'm saying, A guy like that that should be basically putting his gonads on people's dome on a nightly basis doesn't get the opportunity to do that because he's fixated behind the three.
I'm not saying it's his fault.
What I'm saying is if the offense is executing or is being executed in that kind of way where it's basically just saying go ahead and you know, shoot the three, you're depriving us of the ability of seeing what a guy like Anthony Edwards is capable of doing. Now, if a defense defends him in that way, that's one thing.
But I'm just saying when I look at a team like the Minnesota tim Wolves and I look at a team like the Boston Celtics, you can see the differences in the way that how execution is handled and how the three ball is being shot between those two teams to see who's gonna make it with more confidence and who looks better doing it, and the ones that obviously it's either out of necessity or you clearly don't have the roster set up in that kind of way that they can go out there and do what a team
like the Celtics or maybe a team like the Milwaukee Bucks is currently doing when you got a Damian Lillar on your roster.
Yeah, but I mean I still think it's a matter of do you are you you? Not you?
You?
But the proverbial consumer are we still pigeonholing guys and just saying, well, you should not be doing this because he is you alluded to? Okay, Anthony Edwards, you have all the physical gifts in the world, Go put your gonads on people on a regular basis. But that's risky. I mean at the end of the day, and you have the whole aspect of John Moran saying that he wasn't gonna dunk anymore because he doesn't I say, he hasn't really learned how to control his body or his falls.
I mean, he's great in air control, but when he gets knocked out of air, like hey, then there's nothing you can do. So it's like, why go do that? You know what I mean. I'd rather not be in there on a regular basis. I'd rather shoot the three, especially if I can get enough reps where my release and my touch become prolific in a way that I
can at least shoot league average. So while it's all the things, Anthony Edwards is like almost double his three point attempts per game or whatever it is, he's still shooting around league average. Is what it is. And that's
why we're not seeing much of a change. I would have thought all these other things were happening, Like the pace is different, and we're not getting as many shots at the rim for the for the most part, for the uninitiated, NBA teams get roughly, on average, about eighty eight shots per game, and that's been that way for the last like fifteen years. Like that's what it is. Eighty eight shots is kind of what each team gets
X amount of possessions. The free throw attempts are fluctuating, maybe one or two, you know, based on that as well too, because I thought that would have been a vast difference too. Oh, shooting more threes, that means you're not getting to the line. Same thing, you're not putting your nads on people, so you're not getting found. Free throw percentage and free throw attempts are are are negligible.
They negligible amounts. So while we can be cap were corrected, I think in some ways, like if you go to the eighties where four percent of shots for threes, now we're almost at forty percent of shots or threes. But at the same time, the percentages are the same, and that's why we're seeing the things that we're seeing.
But can we I want to throw something hus You brought up a very interesting point and just hear me out. Now you know Cal's spiracies theory here, what if what we're saying as well too, that guys who I'm saying I don't want to I don't want to sound extreme when I say these guys.
Don't have any business shooting the three.
Like I said, if you evolve and you are someone who is able to shoot that three ball right, and it's incorporated within what is expected of the type of offense that the team is executing, it's within the fabric and the identity of the team.
I'm good with that, man.
I can understand that, hey, you're just struggling, you're just not making your shots. But I'm just saying that they're clearly guys who you can tell this is not what they do, but in this offense, in the way and for you to actually have minutes because the ideas you gotta stretch the you gotta stretch the floor, you gotta expand out four out wide, whatever the case may be,
you have to do that. Is that really what's gonna be successful for some of the teams that we clearly are watching out there, who can't make that unless their star player is shooting the three. I digress again, another question, another conversation for another day on that part.
But to your point, Seaw.
What I wanted to add on top of was, what if the idea right now is to prevent biggs who can't shoot free throws, it's better that they shoot up a three, that there is a higher percentage that they'll
make threes before they actually make free throws. And so to bail out teams from this propensity of hack a shock or you know, hack your center your opposing team center, they'll do is they'll have their centers, their bigs who probably shoot thirty forty percent from the free throw line out there shooting the three ball just simply because it's a better risk in the percentages to take that they do that they're worrying about whether or not that if they get hacked trying to take up a shot down
in the blocks, that they have to actually get on a free throw line and earn those two free throws.
Well, remember we did a segment and this is well, this is gonna let me let me close your point first and then kind of get to the next thing I wanted to talk about. But uh, yeah, there's there's some there's some possibility in that, right, But I mean the aspect of if the big can't shoot free throws, you know, what are the chances that they'd be able
to shoot threes? I think it's I don't know. Like I said, shooting is still as a matter of overall touch, right, But that's why we say, hey, you start from the corners, work your way to the wings where you can get to you know, the high sorry to the center part or whatever the case of being and doing that. But then the concept, however long ago came about of three and D guys. So to what you were saying here earlier is like, you want to make sure guys will
play defense, but they were more or less specialist. So when we we've evolved from the day of you know, I think you know when we talk about some of our our legend guys growing up, so Larry wasn't a specialist. He was just a freaking Hall of famer, right like Larry Bird was a Hall of Famer, but he was air quote the premier three point shooter of of the eighties, if you will. Then you had like Del Curry, and we talked about Dale Ellis and Chuck Person, then Reggie
Miller honestly got into the fold. Then Redy Allen got into the fold. But I wouldn't say that those guys were specialists, but they were better at shooting the three than anybody else. And we've evolved from that now too, where we have elite level guys Lillard, Harden and obviously Steph Curry, Klay Thompson. Those guys are great basketball players, but they're they're elite. Specialty is the three. They are not specialists. And now we are looking for specialist in
essence that due defense and three point shooting. And I think that's where there's been this this emphasis. So again, the league can't have it always and then and then be mad that that is that way. We've cultivated this from from for the last fifteen twenty years.
Final point to you to what you're saying here, Shaw, is this, You're absolutely right the league can't have it both ways. But then if the league was smart, they would figure out a way to preserve.
Well, let me correct, because it's not the league. Fans are upset.
Well Listen, We've had this conversation as well too that I think the NBA has to do a better job of navigating fans to the understanding of where, of why and where the game goes. Listen, one thing is definitely for certain, right And I don't like the idea of only taking pages from what you see from the NFL and from Major League Baseball and from hockey and stuff.
But you can see right now the NBA is borrowing from other leagues to figure out ways to help grow, you know what I'm saying, the machination that the eye candy that they want to see come out of what they're getting from their new generation of stars and where the NBA wants to be, you know, from a digital and also just aesthetically right. But I say this, you do this at the risk of if you don't do
it correctly. The NFL, while people may pick like you know, excuse me part of my language, bitch and complain about what they like don't like. The NFL is the NFL right, You don't have to question it. You know what a running back is, you know what a wide receiver is, you know what a tight end is. You know what all of these guys do and what parts each of these guys.
And even today now in the modern NBA.
You can see that there is there is more love now for guards and d tackles and you know what I'm saying off guards and you know what I'm saying, like the punters, for Christ's sake, the kickers are getting love in this general is this new generation of the
NFL right. And the NFL has never had to compromise saying that we only are you know, we're only advertising and only you know, selling to quarterbacks, because you can make the argument now that guys like Travis Kels, Jason Kelsey, all of them are getting theirs right and they didn't have to be marketed solo wise to be the cornerstones. They helped become the cornerstones. And still the league, the NFL maintains the shield, It still maintains the branding of
what it is. But one thing is for certain, and I'm correlating this now when we talk about with basketball, the NBA and the style of basketball and what enamored people about how the game is being played and what we're watching could very easily be fixed in helping walking people through that, showing them what the old was doing, how the game was being played, and what the new is doing, and if there's a way to get a
balance and how the teams are operating. Having a team that knows how to play in the perimeter more so worried about than playing the three, you know what I'm saying, So that we can get those type of matchups when we get to the NBA Championship.
And if eventually you have that, well.
A team like the Golden State Warriors can beat a team like you know what I'm saying, the New York Knicks, you know what I'm saying, because the style are so different in the way that they play. But if everybody's going to be the same shaw, then all we're watching is we're trying to figure out who's the real and everyone else is the fake.
You know what I'm saying.
You're you're looking for as semblance of almost from a musical standpoint, like you're looking for somebody to be an original, authentic where we know in essence that this is again a copycat league. What is everybody else doing? How how are the winners winning? All right, well, let's do that. How many people go and say, well, let's try to do the opposite of that and figure out another way. And it takes some really innovative, you know, general managers.
I would say, for the most part, the Nuggets are not a great three point shooting team. They ended up with a generational talent in Jokic. While Jamal Murray can shoot threes and Porter can shoot threes and sope forth, they don't do it at as a team at a prolific base, right, And so I think when the Denver won, people are like, oh, ish, we need to go get bigs, we need to go match up against yoker joker and figure out a way to kind of get that done.
Then they didn't win, and now it's like, okay, well, how do we read the Celtics. They're shooting fifty three is a game, Let's go and kind of do that. Everybody is more or less pseudo reactionary, and that's the society and ess since the NBA society and climate that we live within. But again, as I continue to you know, rely on you know what are what is the hard data is really interesting. While some teams are doing it,
some teams are not. But if you even if you take a look at you know, even last the last few seasons, the last ten seasons, so from twenty fourteen to fifteen to kind of now, a lot of things are remarkably very very close you know, to each other when it comes to percentages, especially when you talk about the overall field goal attempts per games. What that boils down to. So it leads back into what you're saying in terms of, all, right, well who is taking these shots?
But the data is going to count for everything. Wellther it was contested? Was that you know? Was it contested within five feet ten feet wide open? Was it the end of the end of a shot clock? Was it the end at the end of a quarter? Those are threes too, when you heave the ball from you know, forty fifty feet away, all those are three point attempts. So all that has taken into the data and despite it all everything is still within you know, a percentage
point or two of each other. And that's why I just I just don't think it's a three point shooting that is the biggest issue for the league in terms of its overall consumption. I think it's those other factors when it comes to the talent level, the consumer interest, what is happening, and kind of another sports as well too.
And you were saying something earlier, and I don't know if this is what you meant, but young young folks do not care as much about the history of the game and how we got to where we got to, who's hot right now, who's doing it at whatever level. That's what I want to mimic and emulate for the most part. Like and we're talking about the vast majority here. We're not talking about you know, the lifers or you know, kind of the backpack wrappers if you will, you know
of the NBA. We're talking about the people that who tune in when it's Christmas and when it's playoffs, and they are looking at, okay, what gets clicks, And that is probably the bigger aspect of the problem here in terms of an overall NBA society and consumption.
Absolutely, man, listen, and I want to make sure you know, our listeners understand too. We're not going at each other, right like I think we genuinely are having an honest conversation where we're trying to approach things from those different sides. And you know, listen, we haven't even spoken about this from the media perspective, and how much of that is having an influence on where on where the struggles are on.
You know, why people feel the way that they feel because there is an influence and how the game is being called, how the game is being displayed, the way that you know, we criticize and and and we scrutinize, you know, the teams and the way that the game is being played in some respects. I'm not saying that you know, those should not or shouldn't should back off. I guess that's what brings about the parody. But to your point, a lot of that at the end of
the day still has to be controlled by the NBA. Right, they have to be the narrators, They have to be the storytellers on what they want us to see and understand and believe. And if they allow it to kind of just metastasize what there's where there's where there's no thumb. There's no imprint on what they want us to understand and see and appreciate within the game. Well, then now we're gonna start giving our own interpretation of what this may look like and what this may mean and why
this may not work and things of that nature. And it's not to be Demi downer, but there's a realism to it because to your point, Shaw, going into a big deal like the NBA is going into, you certainly don't want the perception out there that it makes this much money.
But it's an unwatchable product, right.
So yeah, I mean I love that. I love that as a kind of a closing point, you know, And obviously we're based on NBA podcast, but you know, this is a general basketball conversation that I think is taking place, and you know, I'm not close enough to it, but I'd love to maybe do some research on what's happening in the W and you know, women's basketball even more specifically,
to kind of see like how things are trending. I think we see like the Cata Clarks out there, and you know, we know that she's a prolific three point shooter, but how does that trend with others who are maybe not as initiated with what's going on, you know, in the sport of women's basketball as well too. Is this a basketball problem? Is it a men's basketball problem. I don't know. I have a suspicion, but I think we would need to kind of dive into that to kind
of understand a little bit more too. But a great, great conversation here too, and hopefully our fans of listeners can kind of let us know what they think about this part of it too. Are you just kind of those school man, Hey, just two many threes? Need you know, get your ass in the paint? You know? I remember playing basketball in middle school in high school and the guy, this guy literally told me, like, you go from box to box. I was the tallest guy in sixth and
seventh grade. You go from box to box. And I wasn't even thinking about trying to do anything other more than that too. But I was doing like little hooks, little post up moves, not even mid range. And now that would be blasphemous to kind of be talking about, you know, if you're asking for your four and five to really just be stationary kind of in the paint
at all times. So those done and I think it's really interesting to kind of watch the NBA and all basketball kind of evolve in the way that it has over the last x amount of years.
Absolutely, Man, again, great conversation to be had. We definitely want to hear from you. We want to know your thoughts, what your settiments regarding you know, the NBA. You know, has it taken a turn I want to say for the worst, But is it taken a different direction that you're just not feeling with the ability of you know what I'm saying about the weight that the three ball is being shot at such a high rate. And again you may have alluded to two Shaw, you know, to
our listeners as well too. The percentage points is not that drastic when you really drill down to the numbers. However, when you're watching the game and the way that the game is being displayed upon you, it's kind of hard pressed. You're seeing completely two different things. Where you're just seeing it's just the regular for guys to basically shoot threes as if it's part of the norm of the execution of the offense, as would be anything else that goes
in there. Is that a trend that you're on board with, is that a trendy. You're just like, you know, pump the brakes a little bit, man. So it would be really interesting to hear what our listeners think, man. And I'm looking forward to that because again, I know that this will not be the only time that we have this kind of conversation.
Yeah, well said, I throw this graphic up one last time. Look at this if you're watching it on YouTube, and just think about it. From the nineteen nineties, where you know three point shooting became a little bit more popular, thirty four point seven percent was the league average. The league average now there's thirty six point one. So in thirty five point six in the two thousand and thirty five point six in the twenty tens. It stayed exactly
the same. So even as we've asked guys and players to improve their overall games, like and we know athletes are different and their body types are different and everything, like they're moving bigger and they're faster and so forth and so forth, but that aspect of the game has remained almost exactly the same in terms of the percentages
being done out there. Basically from from the nineties and I'll even I'll thirty four percent to thirty five percent basically from the two thousands to where we are in twenty twenty four. Remarkable, remarkable stuff. And I pulled this at her from NBA stats, from Basketball Reference and Stats Music kind of combined all of it, so you know, it's chustworthy stuff. I'm not pulling it out of my hat or whatever the case. We just trying to make
a point. This is what the numbers are saying, my guy, This is what the numbers is saying.
You know what I'm saying, you should have You should be like one of those those accountants that has the big the hat with the little glass eyes. You know what I'm saying, A pocket protector. Yeah, man, you know what I'm saying. Rundom numbers, Buddy, run them numbers once again.
Man.
We like to thank everybody for hopping off board with us this week for the baseline.
Calie Warrenshaw.
We appreciate you guys, you know we do, and we'll catch up with you next time.