How to Get Your Crypto from Bankruptcy

We don't know exactly how many people were impacted by the crypto scandals of the past year, but retail investors lost billions of dollars tied up in Ftxs Celsius, Luna, Three Arrows and others. Today we're joined by Mark saidI, CEO of X, claim to discuss how they are helping people recover a portion of the money that they might not otherwise see. Again, if you're one of these investors, we hope you'll find hope in recovering your crypto from

Four, three, one, zero. Ignition. Who's bad?

And welcome to the MAD Crypto podcast, the show for the crypto curious and the crypto serious, the best blockchain and crypto show in the world. According to our moms. I'm Sir Joel and that is Sir Lord Travis, right? Hello, sir.

It's not the best, but it's the best one that you're listening to right now.

It's the best, according to our moms. That's true. Or I don't.

Know my mom. I don't even know if my mom thinks that's true.

They're like, you know, we like you guys. We love you guys even. But it's you're not the butt.

Don't know what the hell you're talking about over there with that.

Don't understand anything about this. And why do you guys why do you guys have to call yourselves crypto clowns and defi defi and and algorithmic asshats? That's not nice.

Why are you bad? Why don't you get good?

Let's get good. Well, think we still own good crypto podcast which was registered years ago in response to. Yeah.

Just in case there was a troll out there going well we're the good crypto. Like no you're not Dick because we got it already.

So travel a lot of people lost a lot of money in Celsius as we've talked about previously on the show. Brad Mills was a hero because he called Luna before it happened and then came on this show and called Celsius before it happened. And I got my money out. A lot of people didn't. But today's interview is super interesting. If you've got any money that was tied up in any of these services because there might be hope for you.

There might be hope. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is really interesting how they're able to kind of go in and leverage the future potential returns of this money that may be lost, that may not get back for 4 or 5 years down the road. Some people are still waiting for Mt. Gox. So. Right. You know, this right here is something that is a service that is needed and hopefully it's working out pretty good for the people that's using it. We'll find out why I so right here.

Here we go. There's been a lot of sadness in the crypto world, especially for those who have had their crypto locked up in services like Voyager and Celsius. I am fortunate enough to have escaped Celsius two weeks before the thing got shut down because we had Brad Mills on this show. Remember that, Trav? Brad?

Brad was like, Yeah, get your shits out of that because it's going to happen next. And we're like, What? And and then Joel was like, okay. But then one of our friends actually didn't had left a lot of his money in Celsius and in Voyager to the tune of a couple two, $300,000 sitting in there. So, yeah, that's no bueno.

Painful. And a lot of these companies are now in bankruptcy proceedings. There's talks about other, you know, like Binance acquiring. And we'll dig more into this. We've got a specialist today who's been a chief restructuring officer helping companies in various industries and now is the CEO of a company called Exclaim X Dash claim. They say if your crypto is now in bankruptcy proceedings, that you can trade your claim for cash. His name is Matt Sardi. Did I

Excited to have the conversation.

Yeah. So there's been a whole string of crypto exchanges or custodial services that have failed. I've named two of them Voyager and Celsius. We also know that, of course FTX screwed over a good many people and Three Arrows has got problems because of their exposure to some of these. What are some of the other ones that might be lesser known where people could have gotten hurt?

Yeah, you named four of the big ones. But in December, Blockfi also filed for bankruptcy and and Genesis in January, if we go further back, there were actually some other bankruptcies like nearly two years ago, but in the last 6 or 7 months is really when it exploded. And unfortunately, a lot of people got hurt by that.

Luna.

That was crazy. I mean, there was like a there was like a couple of months there that was like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it was like, uh oh, is this is this the end of crypto? Is crypto going to crash here? What's going on here? This It was insane. As you saw, Bitcoin just sort of go down with the ship a little bit. Now it looks like it's rising up again, but man, what a ride that was, huh?

You can actually plot on a timeline these bankruptcy cases and the value of Bitcoin and watch the watch them fall off a cliff within 24 hours of a bankruptcy filing. Because each time a bankruptcy occurs, people are losing, are having less confidence and there's less faith in the system to protect their money and get them paid out.

Well, the markets are emotional, right? People buy and sell on emotions. Most people don't have the the patience and the strength to not FOMO in or not sell out of fear. And so is there an have you actually plotted that out with the points of each of the, you know, the announcements of these failings?

We haven't plotted it out. But you're exactly right about the emotion of driving these things, driving these trading decisions. But it's not so dissimilar from the bank runs that we've all heard of, of. Throughout history, when when people feel like their money is locked up or is going to be locked up, they'll try and pull it out. And unfortunately, that just spirals the whole situation further down. It's how FTX lost several billion dollars in a matter of 72 hours.

How much do you think, you know, put put aside the the institutional money for a moment. Let's talk about the retail investor with all of these companies that have are going belly up or in bankruptcy or may not be coming back. How much retail money has been lost?

Um. Well, lost, I don't know. But trapped in bankruptcy is about $10 billion.

Wow. That's a lot of money.

It's a lot of money. And and it's pretty tragic. We hear stories all the time of people that had their life savings in these accounts who can't make payments on medical bills right now and have. Really, really sad stories being mailed to the judge asking for for leniency and mercy to get their cash out. And unfortunately, that's just not the way it works. And people have been.

We're not going to take it anymore, Joel. We're not going to take it. You're just being.

Twisted, sister.

Man. So that's just bizarre. So it's like when this stuff is stuck, like, for example, some people still haven't gotten their money back from Mt. Gox. Like, that was years ago. And think about that. When they were they were buying Bitcoin. Then a couple hundred bucks a Bitcoin, it goes down, Bitcoin makes it up to almost $70,000. They can't get their money out even though their money has gone up so much. Man, it's insane. How about 300% 300 x sometimes from what? They bought it, they couldn't

That's that's exactly right. Mt. Gox is a great example of where nine years ago people had their funds locked up in that bankruptcy and they still haven't been paid. But talking about trading mentality that we spoke of a moment ago, um, imagine. Be selling at the bottom and not getting paid.

I can imagine this.

Selling at the bottom and not getting paid and then watching the whole thing go up and not benefiting from it. That's what's happening right now to anybody that anybody who's trapped in these bankruptcies. They got crushed when the when bitcoin was at. What did it drop to? 13 at 1.14. 15?

Yeah, we were we're definitely in the 13 range, maybe even 12. Right.

So when it drops that low and that's when you get frozen and now it's up to 22 and you don't get the benefit of any of that. That's why people are becoming more urgently saying, I want to participate in the recovery of Bitcoin rather than or crypto generally, rather than just sit on the sidelines for up to nine years like Mt. Gox.

So let's talk about what you're doing here. The website claim is the site and you guys are buying claims. I'm going to click on the how it works here and maybe you can kind of explain this to us.

Sure. So to be first off, claim is not a buyer of claims. We're a marketplace. So we allow account holders from all of these different crypto bankruptcies that we mentioned to list their claim on X claim and expose it in a marketplace to buyers. There are hundreds of investors around the world distressed debt, institutional or even retail investors that are interested in buying these claims and waiting it out. It's really interesting actually, the difference between a

All right. So I'm on this claim calculator here looking at this and it's kind of gives me an idea of of what I can make on this. Do you have a calculator? Doesn't require me to put in my information.

No, we don't.

All right. So can I put a fake one in?

Sure.

The idea of the calculator is, first off, everybody, of course, wants to receive full recovery. 100 cents on the dollar payment immediately. But that's not the reality. And people don't typically give enough credit or weight to the the duration of how long it takes to recover these funds. And if you're waiting five years, you know, simple math, the

Okay. So in this case, it fills in the default. I'm expected let's say I've got $1,000 in Celsius. I expect that I'm going to get 600 of that. It's going to take 2.8 years to get it. Is this inflation rate accurate Right about now? That's 8.5%. And the email give me my money at aol.com from I lost bigly and calculated is today I could get $477.47 instead of waiting.

So if a buyer pays for 77, which is what it's worth today and recovers 600 in 2 point eight years, that's their return. But if you're a seller and you sell for 47 today, you're getting the same discounted value of what you would be getting if you waited 2.8 years. And that that trade is happening all day, every day in a very hot market right now because buyers and sellers are increasingly finding exclaim and buyers directly of how

Wow. So which are the the properties that that people got maybe hosed on that you guys are able to help them with claim is that with Ftxs Luna Celsius what are all of the properties that you guys have identified that you're able to work through now.

We've traded claims in all of the above. Celsius and FTX have been the most active and the most popular. Um, but each of these cases has unique characteristics, even if even in a case where the claims are almost worthless, there's no expectation of recovery. There is still usually a buyer that will buy it for. Nearly nothing because they believe that five years from now they can make $0.05 a dollar. Okay. From again, from a buyer, it's all

Yeah, it's an interesting service for people because a lot of people don't know they have options or like, All right, my money's tied up here and now I just got to wait and see what happens. So you're giving people an option and you're providing a service that, of course, this is a for profit service. So how does X claim make a profit on this?

Yeah, So. I come from the restructuring bankruptcy industry. And the reason I started the business because I saw kind of the unfairness of the market and I always felt that account holders or sellers of claims had already suffered. They've they've already been receiving less than what they did. They put in a hard day's work and they're getting less for it. So we don't charge anything to sellers.

Makes a lot of sense. Well, you guys can go check this out. X dash claim to learn more about it. You could speak with a claim holder advocate. And how much recovery have you guys done to date and quantify it in a dollar amount.

We've traded about $200 million worth of claims. Each of these cases are different. We've been actually very active in the Genesis case and the FTC's case, and currently we have almost $400 million of claims listed on our platform.

Excellent stuff going on, so.

Well, I think that this could be something very valuable for some of the people who are maybe pissed off about crypto because, you know, FTX went down, Voyager went down Celsius, went down, some of these all went down. And so they need to find a way to to to remedy that in some way to to capture some sort of value from that because something is better than nothing. And if you can even take 50% of what you thought you were, you had lost forever. Right. That's a

I think so.

I agree, certainly. And I think that's exactly the right mentality because we hear it all day. There are people that are ready to sell their claim so that they can get the cash and reinvest it. As we all know, the crypto community really believes, and they've been proven right many times, that you can tend your investment quickly if you've got the cash in the right place at the right time.

So which, which coin, Matt.

But letting it sit in a bankruptcy court for a decade and personally I will I will bet that Ftxs creditors account holders will be waiting 5 to 10 years before they see anything. Really, it's going to take bankruptcy is not a fast process. Just an example. Bernie Madoff, many of many of you and your listeners may remember that name. That was 15 years ago. Wow. And the the people that are owed money in that bankruptcy are still getting paid little pennies here at a time. So

Why is it the names of these people, you know, Bernie Madoff, he made off with people's money. Sam Bankman-fried. It sounds like fraud. It's like was it baked in? Do we need to be careful?

Man was.

Freed. That's what happened was the bank man got arrested in Bahamas and then he was freed immediately on coming to America. So weird.

And all the investors got fried.

They did.

They did. There should be some diligence on last names. When people invest with with a with a newfound.

Well, I just want to say Travis is right. There you go. And I'm and I'm what is calm? I mean, I just you're very peaceful. I'm just communicating and I'm mostly peaceful, so. I had a brilliant question for you. And and it went with the bad joke.

With the Madoff joke, because I was thinking the same thing, which knows we're on the same line because he made off with a whole lot of money. And then Joe just got it and I was like and.

It made off with my question is, is exactly what it did there. So you guys go check it out. Zcash claim do your own due diligence. Make sure you check it all out for yourself before you do anything. And Matt, thanks for coming on today and sharing with us. I'm having a breath mint.

Of course.

Thanks for having me. We're across the the cameras. I can't actually smell your breath, but I'm sure it's delightful.

It's minty fresh, I guarantee you.

There we go. So if you're interested in that, make sure you go check that out. This is not, again, not financial advice. This is not a sponsored thing, just a potential good service to maybe help you out in this scenario that you're in. So there you go.

Get your money back. I got my money back.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's not.

Oh, my God. How did we just have the same dad joke.

Simultaneously.

Was just that's like combustion. Like that type of thing is people's people's MP3 players might be.

On fire.

Right? Oh, my God. It's a gusher.

That's what you.

Know what a gusher is? No. So you ever seen that movie Stand By Me? Yeah. Like River Phoenix and Wil Wheaton. Wil Wheaton, those guys. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what happens whenever you say the same thing at the same time. Back in the day. Now you say jinx, but back in the day it was a gusher.

And for a.

While it was pinch, poke, Buy me a Coke, Was it? Yeah. Never heard. Pinch poke. Buy me a Coke.

Buy me a Coke. Now, I've heard of the pinch, the Penske pinch. Like if you see a Penske vehicle drive by, you got to pinch somebody or the slug bug, but not the poke. Buy me a coke.

So if you guys are not yet members of that crypto nifty club, you will want to be because we are dropping nfts. All you need to do is go to bad crypto dot uncut dot FM and pick up this cool ultra spinny bad crypto nifty club membership. NFT. It's rare because Uncut says it's rare and it is 0.002 eath, which equates to $3.13. You will be in good company to have this. Airdrops will be coming your way and if you're.

Already coming to people who've got them right, there's some really cool ones that's in there. And guess what cost you three bucks? And you get all kinds of cool drops and you get it doesn't make us any money at all. It actually takes us time, but it's fun to do and you guys get cool excitement out of it. Some of the people who've received some of these are literally really excited about some of the cool things.

We've dropped them.

But and I hope that you bag crypto nifty club members that are currently holding or paying attention to what we said about our new sister show, The Bad I Show. And currently as of now you can get a free founder's NFT, but that is not an automatic drop. You need to go to bed. I show forward slash NFT. These founder's passes are so badass looking and they're going to entitle you to things and stuff and you'll be an OG.

Yeah. So check this out. So you see this one right here where we're just all static inside there. The new one, it's not static like it's moving around. It's really cool. We're learning some really awesome tricks when it comes to this, you know, using AI and some of these different tools. And then also our buddy Alex, who's helping put the finalized touches on some of this stuff. Dude, it's just really cool. This stuff is going on. I don't know how many hours. Last night I was watching

And then their header gummy.

Their header on the page. Their tagline is Everything you need to make anything you want. And so we're going to be covering that on the Bad AI show. You're going to want to go subscribe and make sure you get this free founder's pass NFT while you can, but you have to claim it at Bad II dot show forward Slash NFT. Thanks for listening to the Bad Crypto podcast. We appreciate you guys. We love crypto, we love blockchain, we love Web3, we love Nfts and Metaverse and gaming.

The future of technology. Joel We love technology and as technology advances, we like to learn about it and then teach you about it. So that's really what it is. We probably when we named our show Bad Crypto, it probably just the bad technology show because we're talking about all kinds of badass technologies. Really? Yeah.

But they did that in another timeline and it didn't work. Yeah. Yeah. Those guys failed. Nobody knows who they are. Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess that was. I guess we're on the proper timeline.

We're in the right timeline, which is here and now. And as much as we love talking about technology, we also love telling you guys that one thing you should do is.

To stay back.

Who's bad?

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