Jimmy Korderas

This is Austin Theory and you're listening to the baby Faces podcast on the iHeartRadio via wup doc right for the wall, and you are listening to the baby Faces on iHeartRadio. What's going on y'all is WWE Superstart, Koche Kid's gonna You're listen into the baby Faces on I'mheart Radio. Bab Welcome into another episode of the baby Fasis podcast. I'm your host, Billy, joined by Austin as always, and we are just about a week away from being in Philadelphia

for WrestleMania, my first WrestleMania ever. Austin second year in a row hitded it up more first WrestleMania as official media credential members. So we're super excited about that, and got some great content coming your way tonight and coming next week and all that to be a the lookout for it. But tonight we

are joined by kind of an unconventional guest. You know, we've had some some super stars on lately, but we wanted to welcome on a former WWE ref probably I would say one of the more well known refs of all time. His name is Jimmy Corderoz. Jimmy, thanks so much for taking the time to line man. No, I appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me on and for saying that. You know, as I always say, the referees are supposed to be kind of like invisible until they need to

be visible. And that's really I hate to say it. It's almost becoming a lost art nowadays. And it is an art to be a referee. And I was fortunate enough to sit under some fabulous learning trees in my career.

And you look at some of the greats. Both have married brothers, you know, Earl and God rest his soul, David as well, and Timmy White, and you know, the first referee I ever really noticed in growing up here in Toronto, we used to get a lot of mid Atlantic Championship wrestling up here and at Maple Leaf Gardens that's where they mainly got their talent. But Tommy Young, Okay, so I got a chance to get to know him and pick his brain. And and that's the thing. You're

always a sponge, You're always learning. And that was the main thing I learned was stay in the background, help the guys tell their story. You're not the story, sure, I think that well, I think mostly Jimmy if we've had a shout out to we've had refs on before, OBW ref Our guy Daniel Spencer, he's us. He's came on before and kind of showed us a little bit about the ropes and you mentioned it. It's like it seems that the refs always kind of get the afterthought because they're sort of

played in the background. But as you kind of dive down into the mix of what professional wrestling is, you're more or less like the third dance partner in there, or depending on how many what type of match it is, the fourth, fifth, sixth person. You're kind of help orchestrating everything, whether it's you know, get in timing spots and everything like that is there. I'm an egotistical maniac, okay, So like I want all the credit

to be on me. So like being being in like a ref like I would, I feel like it'd be bad because I kind of want to outshine that. And you've been a part of some historic moments, like when you're sitting there refereeing like a match with them, we'll get to some of your biggest ones just to say, like Edge or or Undertaker, kind of like how it is in your Twitter bio. Do you, I mean, do you kind of get intimidated with guys like that or do you just they're just

consumant pros and you just know everything's gonna flow. No, it's kind of like a little bit of both. Hate to sound like a fence sitter here, but you know, I was confident in my abilities, but at the same time, you also have a little bit of anxiety because you want to be there to perform for them. They're the story, They're the main event

of WrestleMania. And I was privileged enough to do that match, to referee that match at their request because I was kind of labeled as the TLC Ladder match kind of ref They had confidence in me in those matches to make sure that everything was going smoothly, everything was going well, that I could communicate signals and that sort of thing whatever needed to be, not only from the back where we used to wear the IFB and you get it from the grow

position and they tell them, okay, tell them to go here, tell them to do this, tell them they have this much time left. You're also a conduit between the talent and have to relay messages back and forth. Okay, go over there and tell them we're going to do this spot next, or whatever the case may be. But you have to do it discreetly or it doesn't look like you're walking over and saying hey, by the way,

exactly exactly. And again I'm saying, you know, I see a lot of that nowadays, and unfortunately, because of my career in stripes, I notice these things when I'm watching television nowadays, televised wrestling, and I can't see it. And my good brother and Stripes Brian Hebber and I who have our own podcasts, they're reroughing it up podcast. We talk about it all the time, and people are again they're saying, what do you guys just jealous or no. We want these guys to improve, we want them

to get better. You know. It's it's all about tightening the screws to help elevate as opposed to tear down. And a lot of people just don't get that because they think it's just a bunch of old guys just screaming at everybody. Right. Yeah, and you know, to in an industry that has so much turnover for you to have what twenty five year career in WWE, that's I mean something to really hang your hat on. And you know, well, let's get back to those early days where you're talking about training

with some guys. But how do you even get started? Like what what made you? Obviously you had to be a fan of wrestling, but like what made you think, oh, I want to be there as a ref I don't want to be. I don't want to be a wrestler. I don't want to be you know what made you go that direction? You know, it's funny because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I knew I loved wrestling, and I used to attend the Maple Leaf Gardens shows every

three weeks. It was a Sunday night every three weeks, like clockwork, and I would go and I would take pictures of the boys because I ended up getting what would be the equivalent of a season's tickets ringside, two ringside seats right beside that ramp, because Maple Leaf Gardens had this ramp that was level with the ring that came from the entrance way. It was very unique. It wasn't very if any other places had that. And it was right

beside from the apron all the way to the entrance. That's what the that's what the ramp was, right. They would come out of the locker room entryway, go up a few steps, and then there are with the ring and they'd walk to the ring through the crowd, and I was right beside that, and I would be able to take some great pictures of the talent walking by, and I would come back the next show and I would sell my pictures to kind of facilitate my wrestling habit pay for it. So and

I ran into it, yeah, exactly. And I ran into a fellow by the name is Elio Zarlingo who worked for Jack Tunney. At the time, I didn't know who he was. And he says, hey, you're selling some pictures. I said yeah. He says, can I take a look at him? I said, sure, here you go. He says how much are they? I said they're two bucks apiece. He says, you can't do that. I said, why who are you? Why can't I do that? He says, that's copyright infringement. I work for Jack

Tunney. I take the pictures for the programs here and I'm going, oh, you know, and he said, you know what, you don't seem like a bad guy just going down the street and don't do it. Don't do it right outside maple leaf gardens and stuff like that. And we developed a rapport and then he said, you know what, maybe I can get you hired on as helping me with taking pictures for the program. And I said that'd be cool. So he introduced me to Jack Tunney Wow, and

Jack said, well, we don't need another photographer. We'll find something for the kid to do. So I did all the you know, gopher stuff that needed to be done, you know. All of a sudden, Jack would throw me the keys to his Fleetwood Cadillac and say, hey, go to the airport Marriott and pick up Andrea and and Timmy White or something like this. And I don't want to go, Holy crap, I'm going to

go pick up andre the Giant and stuff like that. You know. It's like, yester, I'm on my way, you know, doing that kind of stuff. And I developed a rapport with Pat Patterson, who was, you know, everybody a legend on fellow Canadian as well. He kind of liked me. I don't know what it was, but he took me and says, you know, he kind of looked after me. And he said, you know, to Jack Tunney one day, he just said, you know, we got the kid here. He's, you know, hanging out

with the boys. He's doing this stuff for us during the show. He's waiting to do something. Why don't we use him? Why don't we make him a referee? And Jack says to him, yeah, but Pat, do we want to smarten the kid up? And Pat says, well, he's in the locker room with the boys, you know, kind of what's going on. You know, why don't we use him? He's there instead of just sitting around waiting for something to do. So Pat told me, get a pair of black sneakers, black pants, a blue shirt and a

black bow tie. Carry it with you all the time because you never know when they're going to ask you to work. Wow. And that's where it started. And I said, oh, this is going to be cool. I like this because you know, you always have that thing in your mind. I'd love to be a wrestler one day, but getting up close and watching it up close, I was like, I don't know if I could

do this. Yeah, you know, but and again I didn't think enough at the time to go start asking other referees Okay, how's this done? I just got thrown to the huh. Yeah. It was basically one day doing a spot show up here in Ontario, in Newmarket, Ontario, and Chief j Strongo, who's the agent, you know, he comes up and he says, hey, Jimmy jam you got your RIF gear with you. I said, you said, do, Chief, just put it on your work it tonight. And I didn't want to tell them, but I've never

reffed a match before. So he says, you got SD Jones versus the Red Demon, who's Jose Luis Rivera. And luckily SD and I had developed a report. So I walked up there and said, SD, guess what I'm roughing your match? And I said, oh cool, I said, I never refed the match before. He said, just just stay calm, listen to me. I'll talk you through, which he did, and you know, from there, that's when I the light switch went on, went Okay, Now I got to start talking to people and finding it, figuring

out how this works. So what I mean, you go for work, right, And that's something that me and Billy work in the media industry. We've had to do that. Billy's a little bit higher than I am. So I'm kind of stuck doing a lot of the gopher work around the around the station. Go pick up this guy, Go get and go get flowers for whatever. I mean, yours a little bit different. Yours is go to the airport, pick up Andre the Giant. Do you have you have

any like, any fun antidotes? I mean everyone always knows that, you know, Andre, what especially all stages of his life, just a character in himself, and and he like I've always been fascinated with, you know, the pranks and the ribbings of Andrea. Do you have any fun of pranks that Andre's pulled on you? Or have you always kind of stayed out of his line of fire? No? Again, here's the guy. When

Andre liked you. He liked you and for some reason, you know, I'm not a confrontational guy, and for some reason, I guess he picked up on that, you know, And we developed a report. And one day he was in Toronto, and usually Timmy White would travel with him, yea, and on this particularly this particular occasion subbing for him, was I want to say it was, was it Danny Davis who was riding with him

for this trip? Because Timmy was off for a little bit. So, you know, here, go to the airport hotel and pick up Andrea and bring him down. I'm in the Cadillac Fleetwood. I get up there, I call up to the room and he's not there. There's no answer. So I called Danny Davis and I said, hey, you know, I called Andre's room. He's not there. He says, I was probably in the bar. Go there. I'll meet you guys there in about five ten minutes. I said, okay, cool. So I go to the bar

and Andre Jimbo come sit down, have a drink. And you never refuse to drink from Adre if you refuse to drink from Mandri here in his bad books, let's put it that, you know. So I said, uh, what could it hurt having one? You know, I'm thinking to myself. One turned into a couple. Next thing, you know, I'm going, oh, this is not good. I got to drive, you know. So Danny comes down. He says, how many have you had a

couple? He says, well, do you want me to drive? I said, I would like that, but if we show up and you're driving and not me, oh boy, that's not good. So I figured he says, okay, just take it easy, and he sat beside me in the car and we made our way down. I took my time. Everything was cool. I get in the building, I dropped them off and I go to give the keys back to Jack and I kind of like walking away

this way. Here you go and I'm going to you know, trying to stay away from him in case I didn't have any gum to choo, you know, to get that the pop breath out of my mouth, you know. And he says, Jimmy came here for a second. I said, yes, sir. He says, were you drinking? And I went, I didn't say a word. I just gotta m He says, was Andre and the bar? And I went. He says, just go in my office, have a few coffees. You'll be fine. So he was cool

about it. I guess he figured it's Andre. Yeah right. Always love those stories for sure. As fans, you know, we that that's the stuff we don't get to see. So that's a super you know, super cool to hear. Though. We see that the memes and stuff of Andre being able to put down some beer many Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was well known for doing that. I can imagine. So, Jimmy, it's a you know, no secret. This time of year is the

most exciting time in wrestling, WrestleMania right around the corner. You've been fortunate enough to be a part of many WrestleManias. We're just talking about Edged Undertaker at twenty four. Funny enough, that was the first WrestleMania I ever watched as a kid. That's like when I started to get into wrestling. Still my favorite pay per view to this day because you always prod WrestleMania. Yeah,

right, So, but what is the what's the vibe like? Like we've We've talked to a lot of wrestlers about this, but you know, in the entire locker room, in the entire behind the means, what's the vibe like this time of year with everybody. Everybody's amped up big time. Everybody from the wrestlers themselves, to the referees to even the producers, the agents. Everybody just wants to go out there and hit a home run. And as they should. It is our super Bowl. It is the biggest

event of the year. And you know, especially I know the guys over a Bus had opened very well and they did a they did a master's class, as they call it, one time talking about wrestler's anxiety and how some of them get so nervous, and you know, it gets in their head a little bit. And I know before that match and twenty four, I let it get in my head a little bit too much. Where the night

before I could barely sleep. I'm outside the hotel at two thirty in the morning, going, I can only imagine no. I thinking to myself, I know I could do this, but you know, those little doubts run through your mind and started, what if I mess up here? What if I mess up there? What if you know, little things like that. And I ran into Ken Kennedy in the morning and he says, Jimmy, what do you do out here? I said, I can't sleep. He says, don't worry. You got this. You know what you're doing.

I said, I appreciate that, but I still need, you know. So I calmed down a little bit when got a little bit of sleep, and thank goodness, everything went well, you know, because I had to take that bump in the match, you know, And that, of course my philosophy as far as referees is taking a bump a it should look like it literally killed you took your head off because you're taking a boot from the Undertaker. And the other thing is you I hate when this happens, when

referees bumped like one of the boys. You shouldn't look like you're a trained wrestler. You should look like it should look a little bit awkward. But still you got to protect yourself in some form or fashion. So you thought that so you don't hurt yourself. So basically I didn't want to see it coming. So when we went, when I knew the spot was coming,

instead of looking at the boot coming, I look the other way. It was like at forty five, and I felt it and and I was blessed enough where they actually showed it on replay and slow motion when I watched it back later and I went, oh, wow, that's cool. I got I got it. I got a replay. You know, you always have that. But the funny thing was the day before when they were going over the match, and you know, you're sitting in the green room and they're

talking it over and uh takers Uh. Michael p says was the agent for this match. He says, Jimmy want to bump you in this match? But we want to give you a bump where we take you out and have a second referee come in, which was Charles with that legendary run. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah, I'll get to that in a second. But so he says what kind of bump can we give him? And Taker says, Jimmy, are you okay with taking a big boot?

And I'm thinking, this is the Undertaker asking me if I'm okay taking a big boot at Russell Mayne, actual freaking lutely, are you serious man anything? Yes, take my head off. I'll take them for the team. I don't care. This is it? Yeah, you know? Well then they said, and then they said afterwards, okay, you're out of the picture. Who do we get to run down? And we're looking over the SmackDown roster of referees went wow, who can make that seventy five yard

line? Everybody almost in sync, went Charles, He's the only guy can do it. Yeah, and he did. He definitely did that slide. He not only did he slide under that bottom rope beautifully, but he slid himself into perfect position for the false finish. I mean it was it was as pure athleticism as you can see, I could imagine, because things have to go like so right, I mean, if you fall or you trip

on your feet like that, that's he nailed it, dude. Oh I know, especially coming down that ramp and when you there's that little edge there where the padding is. Yeah, if you hit that, especially coming down dead center, there's a center beam support on the ring right there, steal if you run into that good night, Like that's what almost happened to Titus O'Neill a while back. Yes, that spot. So yeah, even you know, a terrain wrestler, a freak athlete you know, has had that

happen to him. You got Charles Robinson out here running the seventy yard dash, right, it's one of his favorite memories. Oh my gosh, so good. And then the part that made it incredible to is on commentary I think uh, I think coach was on commentary and he just goes wow, like once he slides into the ring. Yeah, it was a great moment.

So you know, Okay, so that match obviously one of your biggest accomplishments I imagine, but you you've had the pleasure of reffing many legendary matches, right, so like what matches sort of stick out to you in that aspect well as far as WrestleMania goes. Getting to do Eddie and Ray the opening match of WrestleMania twenty one was awesome for me. Stuff like that, WrestleMania seventeen, who a lot of people say is probably the best WrestleMania ever.

My favorite. Getting to do a couple of matches, or did the hardcore match with King Big Show and yeah, yeah, where they almost ended

up cutting the power on the building the building really yeah. When they fought into the back and Raven got into one of the golf carts and pulled away, Big Show jumped on the back, which like he was supposed to do, but what we didn't realize he was so heavy he pulled the steering tires, the front tires off off the ground, so Raven couldn't steer the the golf cart to the right to go down the hallway, so he ended up

going plowing into the fence where the power cables for the entire show were running, and everybody's like, you know, panic like this, and then I got thrown on the back of a golf cart by Kane and got chauffeured to where the action was happening, which was kind of cool for me, and going this, I got Kane chauffeuring me around the building. That's nice. Yeah, And then of course the infamous Ladder TLC match with the Dudley's Edgend

Christian and the Hardy's Man. Those guys just unbelievably set. You talk about elevating a style of wrestling and creating something different that people try to copy today, but I don't think they could ever be as as brilliant as those guys were, because not only were they taking some real, real risks, they were telling wonderful stories along the way. They were taking their time, they were letting everything makes sense and let everything digest so the crowd could absorb everything.

And they were awesome about it. And you know, I'm just watching it from ringside. You know, my biggest concern was making sure everybody was okay, So every time after a big spot, you gotta check to make sure they're good, and a ladder match like that. And I guess we can kind of sort of because you mentioned something that we always love to talk about. It's just a lot of people, especially wrestlers of today, just try to re emulate those kind of spot fests. You know, they see

something like that, and admittedly it was great. It's all fun stuff to watch. And when you have a TLC and when you see TLC matches and hardcore matches come up, that's something that you get excited for because you know that stuff's about to happen. And nowadays it kind of sort of isn't the thing since that stuff just kind of goes on. But I'm rambled. We'll

get back to that. But you mentioned about just keeping these wrestlers saying the ring and just making sure that their health is is the number one thing, Like if you can just sort of kind of like peel back the curtain a little bit and just maybe like just in a spot where something looks like really really dangerous on TV and we go, oh my god, he's dead,

Like what's the protocol? Like if you just know what looks like it hurts and you go over there, like I mean, it's these guys are larger than life and they have I wouldn't say like egos, they have pride, So it doesn't seem like if someone just fall. If something were to happen and a ref goes over to them. I just always think nine times out of ten, they're just gonna say I'm good, I'm good, We're gonna finish the match. Is where do you come in as a ref to say,

no, bro, let's take care of you. Yeah, that's the big thing. The old school mentality was you fight through everything. It doesn't matter if how much you hurt, you fight through it. We've seen it recently where guys are tearing their pectorals, they're tearing their tricos, and they're fighting through matches and stuff like that, and it's tough to you analyze there. The biggest thing is is head trauma. Someone who gets bell rung or

something like that. Those are the tall tale signs. Obviously we're not trained medical practitioners who could you know, quickly diagnose. Now they have at least someone ringside who if need be, you can call on them. So the first thing you got to do is keep the other europe the person's opponent who looks like they got their bell rung, the person on the ground who's selling or or just doesn't know he's selling. He's just an unfortunately law law land,

which is a terrible thing. But you keep the other guy at bay and you just look hold on something looks off. Let me go check. You go to check on him. And we had this little thing we used to do back in the day. I don't see anybody doing it anymore because everybody leans in to ask are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay? And of course natural response is I'm okay, I'm good to go.

We had this deal where we would squeeze the fingers of the hand and when you got your bell rung and you're not aware of what's going on around you, you can't think to squeeze back right, which is which is? Which was the side? And the guys knew that that was the symbom. So if they didn't squeeze back, no no, no wor stopping right here, we're making sure that everything's okay before we continue, and if not,

call the match off. Yep. And there's ways and it's there's nothing wrong with that, because again, we want to make people believe that what they're seeing is real, kind of like watching drama television or comedy televis whatever it is. You know, any movie you watched, you the suspension of disbelief. If you have to call off the match. Then call off the match. And there was a time there where we saw some terrible accidents way back

when you know draws comes to mind and all that sort of stuff. You know, there was a mantra from the office from up above saying, if you think something's wrong, call it off. There's nothing wrong with that and get someone down there who we can really really take a look at him and assess the situation. Interesting, I feel like one of the more infamous moments of somebody in their belt wrung as of late was the miz at Wrestlming in

twenty seven and the main bank it's Chauncey. Were you still were you still with no? No? No? Yeah. So, I mean obviously that's the main event of wrestle media, right, like, you're not going to call that off? And luckily it was kind of towards the end of the match. But you know what, if you're in that position as the referee in that match, how do you think you you handle that? Because he's still guys to a spot with the rock He's got to take a rock bottom

and a people's elbow and all that. It all depends again on how bad the the the apparent injury is and how bad they get their bell rung if they if they if again, you do the the deal that I told you

about. Make sure if you feel like he can go, you know, and you let the other guys know, you know, take it easy because I think he's a little loopy, so they will protect Yeah, the guys who know what they're doing, will protect the other guys because if you look at the rock bottom that he did give them, it wasn't it wasn't that

he normally gives. It was a little bit I don't want to say light lighter because still you're taking that impact that but they he protected his head if you pay a close attention to it, you know, so I yeah, yeah, you gotta you got to be aware and just let the other guys who are doing spots with him know that, hey, he might not be all there. Just be careful, you know, don't don't hurt him anymore. But uh miss thankfully was okay? Right, yeah, yeah, even

though he doesn't remember the match apparently. Yeah, yeah, see I don't remember stuff from WrestleMania four because I got myself knocked out so well as well that if you want to go ahead and talk about that story. No, it was. Yeah, it was the icy title match with a brutus Beefcake and Honky Tonk Band and yeah. So the whole thing was that he gets Honky in the sleeper and I'm but the chick and I go to lift his arm to check on him. Jimmy Hart jumps on the apron for the distraction.

We go to him and I start screaming at him, get down, get down, get down, and as I turn around, he waffles me with the megaphone. I dropped down. I'm you know, I'm out of the picture, and that's supposed to call for the disqualification. When I finally

come to the problem was I didn't come too because it wasn't Jimmy. Jimmy was beautiful, but I I pancaked myself so hard that my hands went out and my chin hit the canvas and it was over by the ropes, which is over, you know, the part that doesn't give Yeah, and it was lights out. Oh man, thank you very much, thanks for coming. Yeah, And you know the next thing I know, I'm in the back sitting there and going did we finish the match? You know? Right?

You know it happens, but Hey, you know, I'm just more concerned about their safety because they take especially nowadays, I'm concerned for the talent because they take some some real real risk. They do some risky stuff in

the ring, and it scares me sometimes. One of the things with WWE and it just we we've always marveled at their production and the way that they're able to handle live events, and obviously the way that they're able to handle things on the fly in case of emergency, someone you know, getting knocked out or not able to continue, Like it just always seems like they that they want to be on point and if something were to happen to where I

wouldn't say it messes up the television or let's say, like a ref get laid out and he can't come too to make that decision when you get to the back, Is there anyone just kind of like there's something about me that just always thinks WWE on it that you're gonna get like yelled at right. I'm sure they were probably back there making sure that you were good. Did did Jimmy Hart check on you at all? Brutus or Jimmy felt bad because he thought he was the one who knocked me out. He said, I

didn't mean to hit you so hard. I said, Jimmy, it wasn't you, it was me. I did it to myself. Jimmy's such a sweethearted guy. Man. Yeah, I love that guy. He's awesome. But for years he was like apologizing, Jimmy, I'm so sorry about that. I said, Jimmy, it wasn't you. You know, it was me. I did it to me. Now, what about what about the

now? I kind of want to backtrack a little bit, just because I'm so fascinated with pulling back the curtains and the production wise and how everything happens, and just just fourth wall if you can, Like you hear you're taking that bump from Taker at the end of the match when he gets down there, it Taker seems like at the end of the day, kind of like a big teddy bear. Is he coming back there, Jimmy, uaw right?

Or is he like, how does he handle that situation after giving you a bump that like you said, you were looking the other way, so right? No, he he was awesome. Taker was our locker room leader, and he wasn't the locker room leader because he chose to be the locker room chose him. He was he was our guy. So for me to be in there, was with him was an honor. And for him to have the trust of me, Like I said earlier, Edge and him requested

me to do that match, especially Edge because he wanted. It's almost like a full circle thing. He remembers seeing me referee at WrestleMania six when he was in the crowd and he said, you know, he wrote the forward to my book as well, and God bless him for that. You know, Canadian stick together? Man? You got it? Eh? And and just being out there and when I got to the back because you know,

I got helped back before those guys got back. And the first person I ran into was Striker and he just looked at me and gave me a thumbs up, and I said, thank you so much. And then I ran into my idol, Ricky Steamboat. Oh nice, and he said, Jimmy, great job. That boot looked like he took your head off. Thank you, Ricky. That means so much to me. I said, how was the rest of the match. How did I do? And he said, to be quite honest with you, I'm sorry, but I didn't notice

you the rest of the match. Because I was so enthralled in the story they were telling in the match, and I said, thank you, that means more to me than anything else you could have told me. All right, and he gets he got it right away because I you know, that was my philosophy as well. Then of course I ran into the edge first and we thanked each other like his customary, and you know, and big embrace. And I'm trying to hold it back because you can ask my wife.

I get emotional sometimes, and there's two things. There's two things I'm passionate about my family, my wife and my family and the wrestling business. So I was fighting it back. I was fighting and holding in and as best I could. And then I went and found Taker in the locker room. I said, dead Man, everything okay. He said, yeah, you were awesome, thank you very much. I said it was an honor to be in there with you, see, and he got up and give

me a big cup, and I couldn't hold it anymore. I know they say there's no crying in wrestling, but I'm not. I'm not embarrassed to say I shed some tears that day. For me, my career could end it the next day, and I would have been satisfied. It's beautiful. You know, when I was watching wrestling as a kid, one of the things this is such a mark question too, and I'm saying out loud,

but that's what we all are still to this day. Right. I was like, I was always so enamored with with the championship belts, like the belts. I just wanted to hold a championship belt. So I was always so jealous of the refs that got to you know, before Taker and Edge, you get to hold up the world championship. What do those belts feel

like? Like we have the replicas, like we know, but like there's a different type of leather to those, and I feel like they're probably a little more heavy, Like what are those Just try to describe it to me, Just try to, you know, scratch that edge for me. It's it's exactly like you described it. They're it's this thick leather and it's this heavy metal plates that are attached to it. I don't make them, so I don't know exactly how they keep them all the metal pieces stuck onto the

title belts. But it is heavier than people think it is. So when they use them as a weapons, for example, in matches, the guys are so talented not to you know, bust someone open hardway and stuff like that. So it is a challenge. And I know carrying that thing around if you are a champion is a chore, that's for sure. I had to carry one title one time through the airport to the next town. Way

back when they were doing an intercontinental feud with China and Jericho. I don't know if you're with that one, and they had a double finish where they were both down on the mat with a double pin. I got bumped a little bit, and then a second referee came down and we both performed pins. We counted as yeah, Chad Patten came down and we performed a three count and you couldn't have timed it any better. We got it. We've got it spot on. Time to one, two, three, and I

go over and I raised Jericho's hand. He runs over and raises China's hand, or I think it might have been the other way around you. But you know who's declared the winner. It's a draw. But neither one of them took the belt with them to go to the next town. So they said, Jimmy, you got to take the belt with you. So okay, I'll put it in my bag whatever. And I put it. I

put in my carry on bag. I didn't want to put it in the check bag because you don't want you know, of course security, everybody's going, what is this? And and of course traveling with with Chimmel, who we were nicknamed Waldorf Stadler but by Larry Trek, the hate the trainer. You know, he says, he says, he says, you don't have any you don't have any hair on your sack if you don't put that thing on the walk through the airport. Okay, challenge accepted. So here I

am walking through the airport with the Intercontinental Championship. People looking at me. Who's this guy? That's the actual I see belt? Who is this guy? Yeah? I didn't. I've never seen this guy with it. Ever. That's probably my favorite title of all time. I'm so jealous of that story that I see title Billy. Oh yeah, I loved it. I

loved it. Another question, it's just just because and once again the fat, the fascination with production and how all this goes Jimmy, when I found out that wrestling has worked right like it it made me even more interested in like, how the fuck do they do this? How do they make it

look so real? How are they like one time with things? How do they like how does the Undertaker get buried underground but still like it show up like five minutes later untouched, like I was always and we already know the predetermined outcome of it, like as a ref and especially we'll keep it on the theme of WrestleMania here, how we know that they have their plans and everything? Like are you as a wrestler, you guys like you like take

her and Edge? Like you know there's been a lot of speculation, right Billy, that that that Taker wanted Edge to to end that streak then and wanted him to keep the title and and and Edge was very adamant and know and so like how last second are those decisions made? Are you like, are you told a couple of days before, yeah, Taker's going over or when you get to the building that day, Like when do you really find out? At least on a WrestleMania scale. On a WrestleMania scale, it's

usually the day or two before when you go over it. You sit in the green room and they talk about it and I just sit back and listen. Is what do you need me to do? You know, whatever you asked me to do, I will be there for you as best I can. And you're right. Taker thought that Edge would be the perfect candidate and the streak at that time. Yeah, and Edge was, you know, humble as hell, say no way, this streak is you know, it should continue, you know, And and there was a little bit of a

back and forth like who should go over? Who should go over? And then finally the decision was made. You know. Yeah, that's interesting. I always wonder I always heard the antidotes about it, but I always wondered how close that was because before the longest time, like Edge felt like a real threat in that match. If you're following along in the story and you're felt like Edge was on a run and that's a real doable threat. And even Billy's told me before, like, that's the one time. Billy's always

been a Taker Mark too. And Billy has told me that's one time like I was cheering for Edge because I was for sure Edge was probably gonna win. Yeah, that was that was a great story leading up to it. You know, we had the Mark Henry beatdown of the Undertaker. Yeah,

he was champion and the edge cashing in the money in the bank. Like again, I was privileged to be there for I was the guy for that, you know, and and tried my best again to use my facial expressions to not overshadow the moment, but to say, hey, come on, man, you know that kind of thing. Yeah, But but you know, I've been privileged. I've been really, really really honored to do a lot of great stuff for that, you know, in my career. And again I just like I said, hope that I did them justice. Sure

my work. Well, Jimmy, this has been awesome. Man, We appreciate you taking the time. Again, I'll give you one more question for send you on your way. Sure. Keep it on the WrestleMania theme here again. You know we've talked about WrestleMania four, Wresmania seven teen, russelling a twenty four all legendary and there, right, what are some other events WrestleMania wise that stick out to you as like you're in the middle of the ring looking around, like, man, this is this is something else.

Got to go back to eighteen as well here in Toronto, you know, at the SkyDome. I will never go it to Rogers Center, too bad. It's always the Skydom to me, always the SkyDome. It's always the SkyDome. And I didn't get the referee the match. Mike Kyota did it, and he did a great job, as always as Mike was one of the best. Yes, Rock and Hogan, Yeah, there was nothing that you know, when Rock comes out now and he does this deal where he's

showing the goosebumps. Yeah, that match in particular, I didn't want to watch on the monitor, so I snuck into the tech area out in the arena to watch that match inside, you know, the Skydom proper. And when they did that stare off for that, I don't know how long it took. It felt like ages, but at the same time it was so electric hearing that crowd just going nuts and those guys looking at each other dead,

you know, face to face, but at a distance. Rock would turn to his right, well, Hogan turned to his right, which means they're looking opposite ways. Then they'd look back at each other, then they'd stare the other way. It was masterful the way they manipulated that audience and they bit on everything. And then I turned around. My look and half the locker room's behind me looking at you know. They want They didn't want to watch on the monitor either, They wanted to feel the experience. It

was incredible. Wow. And it just goes to show you that when you have a character or a superstar that that people are invested in, you don't have to do, as I call it, the twisting burning four fifty hammer Phoenix splash in every match five times just to get the crowd to go ooh and go viral on the internet for five you're preaching the choir right now. Yeah, because you know what I mean, that moment lives forever. When people Jimmy, they didn't do jack in that match anything. They didn't have

to exactly because people bought into them, not what they could do. They bought it do them. That's what's telling the story, That's what it's all about, giving them reasons to get invested in characters. And that's what's being lost today because people want to do the five star crap. You know, oh, I want to do a five star match and go back to the locker room and say follow that. No, yeah, no, get your audience invested, get him invested in, make him want to tune in again.

If you give them, if you give him a one off, then what gives them a you know, an incentive to tune in next week? Dude, seriously, and you talk about the story man. I literally we've I've been watching like trying to get myself prepared for wrestling, and it doesn't take me too much, but like I've just been starting to watch every day, just counting down wrestleman, and I watched that one the other day, and I would just talk about storytelling. And it also helps when you have

JR. And King on commentary. And one of the greatest calls I think ever, and I've told everybody about this is Hogan hits that hits that leg drop on the rock and then you hear you hear JR. It gives me chills thinking about it. He says, Hey, beat Andre a giant with that move, and right there he puts over Hogan the rock Andre and the

most simplest leg drop. It made Hogan sound like a freaking mythical god that's taken down all these adversaries with this leg drop that the rock kicked out of and like you just everything needs to flow perfectly for that, and I feel like, we don't get that half the time anymore. No, And you heard the reaction from the from the crowd there, it was electric. I mean. And nowadays you're doing these moves that back in the day were finishes,

And I get that rustlings evolves, so to speak. But they're doing like battling back and forth Canadian destroyers, which looks like somebody's landing on their head and they're getting right. Yes, yeah, it looks like choreographic gymnastics as opposed to looking like you're trying to hurt somebody when you look at the finishes of the past. Jake the Snake Roberts was like, nobody's kicking out of my ddt. No, No, and they shouldn't. Yeah, jbl

with that clothesline from hell. Here's the beauty of it, people say, you know, he was taking liberties with people. He threw that so brilliantly, and the guys that took it took it so brilliantly. He rarely, if ever hurt anybody with it. Oh, that's the beauty of it. That he made people believe that he was taking their head off. That looked vicious on some people too. Billy Gunn took some of the best ones exactly. And you know, speaking of Billy gun whatever, he's whatever, he's

drinking, I want a six pack to go. Man, he has airty years had no exactly something about Billy's We just don't. Yeah that Billy right there. Listen, Billy is a straight liar to you. Because I'm not ready to get you off just yet. I have one more question before we get you off the baby face, and we'd love to have you on again, and we can we can, we can talk and we'll let you come

on promote whatever you want to do the rest of that podcast. If you go follow them, please go check that out and follow them on Twitter, Instagram. You guys have Instagram or uh well, I'm yes running alsocial media. Just look up reffing it up and you'll see her guy right now,

Okay, you will see him. Uh So let's talk about now. You obviously kind of keep tabs on the product and what's going on, just as I'm sure just a fan and just as a professional seeing like who's doing what right and some of the biggest Let's just talk at least the big storylines going into it. When you have Roman reigns as Championship historic reign. Uh, that's kind of up in question, possibly passing Hulk Hogan. You have Cody's store, you have the Rock coming back. Give me kind of like your

prediction. You've been in the you know, obviously TKO, different different people, but you know, you stuff Triple h involved and still some people from your day you kind of still sort of involved. What do you think? What's your what's your opinion on this on this WrestleMania, on this WrestleMania main event, you have so much into factor with the Roman reigns thing, and you know, there's people that's tired of that rain. There's people that's tired

of him not showing up. There's people that want Cody, there's people that are happy that the Rock back And what I ever speculation of how this whole thing has been changed in the last two months due to fan reaction. What's your reaction into this story and let's just say Cody getting his justice or maybe even kind of justifying reins keeping the title for longer. There's you can make a case for either, but as far as the story goes, I'm loving

him. Man. This is this is what this is storytelling. One oh one This is how you get fans invested by giving him something. And I you know, people have been on Cody a lot lately because you know, they talked about his family. They talked about his mom, Mama Rhodes and stuff like that, right, and you know everybody and me included. I'm not a violent guy by any means, but if you talk about my mom or you talk about my wife, you know, I may get my butt

whipped, but I'm gonna punch in the face. I don't care you don't talk about my family like that. And I think that's what they wanted from Cody, and Cody sort of staying back, kind of not getting sucked into the game. That's my take on it, because they're trying to get him off his game and his focus, which is the championship, the Universal Championship of Roman Reigns. But leading into it, I'm seeing the levels of intensity

increase week by week. He's not quite at that visceral level where you go, oh, he's ready to kick some ass right now. He's not there yet, but we still got two smackdowns and one row before wrestleminga where he can and after Monday's beat down by the Rock in Chicago. There. You know, now it's time for Cody to amp up the volume and he doesn't have to come out screaming and yelling. I mentioned Jake the Snake Roberts earlier.

That's a perfect example of how he could present himself and make himself feel like a da dangerous threat, you know, where he comes out and he

talks quietly, he stares daggers at the camera. He's like he's got that look on his face where he's about to absolutely annihilate someone and say I'm not one for revenge, but when I seek it, even the devil is afraid of me, you know, or something along those lines, say something that really resonates with the audience and gets them going, oh, this is a side of him we've never seen before, you know, and I'd like to

say see him. You know, before this hall started getting into the nitty gritty, right getting close to WrestleMania, I was up the opinion that, you know what, you could probably continue the story after WrestleMania where he gets screwed out of the title in some form of fashion. And I know a lot of people are from big proponents of him winning it. For Roman Reines,

at Madison Square Garden in September where his dad was screwed. I'm doing the air quote screwed out of the Championship way back when with Superstar Billy Graham. But you don't have to complete the story that way. It would be a bigger moment in my opinion, if it happens at WrestleMania, And of course, you know, leading into it now, the questions are what happens night one, which is going to help facilitate the story going into night two.

And I kind of think that it's going to be bloodlined rules however they get to it, because why would you push it so much if you're not going to do it. But when I would like to see, if I could fantasy book for a while, I got my pencil here somewhere what I'd like to see, and I you know, this is my you know, my fun time. What I like to do is you're going to have a Bloodlines rolls match. It's Cody versus Roman. You know that the Bloodline is

going to get involved. Have have Sorry, have Rock and Jay no Jimmy, Have Rock, Jimmy and Solo head the ringside before the match and just say, you know, we know they're going to interfere here. They are already and they threw a little Easter egg out there on Monday night that I

don't know a lot of people noticed. I said this on the Wrestling In podcast on Monday night right after Raw, when they were fighting outside the building and you know, Rock was beating the tar out of Cody, got him bloody, and they had a panned a shot of one of the tractor trailers that was parked at the loading dock. There are two Hall of Fame superstars on the side of that trailer from Uncle Steve, Austin and Johnson. Now

I'm not saying both of them, but at least one of them. Maybe you have a scenario where we've already planted the seed that Rock is saying that he he's t KO, he's the member of the board, he's the boss. He says what goes He's you know, he's he's the final word. Triple H said, came out a couple of weeks ago and said, you you may be the boss in the boardroom, but I say what goes here and the rest, you know, in as far as WW goes. So

you have that little tension. So maybe before the match starts. I'll do it before the match, because you don't want to take away from the match itself. But before the match you can get away with maybe Triple H's music hits you hear time to play the game. And here he comes out. He stands on the stage, he stares, daggers down at the three guys ring side. He points to the entrance way and maybe you get you can't see me music play. Here comes Sina. You hear the glass break,

Here comes Austin. And if they could work out some kind of magic with aew and have Dustin come out, that would be purely amazing in my opinion, and have him just go down to ringside, clear ring side of the bloodline. Now it's a fair fight. It is bloodlined rules, but it's a fair fight. It's one on one. And if Cody finishes the story there, he did it on his own without anybody's help. Wow, Then you can have at the end of the night all the locker room empty out

and lift Cody up. And can you imagine him on the shoulders of guys like John Cena and its so called lifting him up on the shoulders. He's a made man. Wow, that's how you make a star right there. I did not think see Billy texts me that, And I know that there's a lot of people that just thought, you know, that's like marble like

foreshadowing, right, that's what they do, and they show me. I've always been WWE has always dropped like easter egg hints here and there that for some reason, I feel like has never came to fruition or just kind of

been forgotten about in a storyline. One of the most recently they had when Shane McMahon was battling the Undertaker and Vince came out, I'm sorry, he who must not be named came out and said something about like a lock box, and I remember that being like a like an internet thing for a while. Shane, if you win, you get the access to my lock box. What the fuck could be in a lockbox? Bench just kind of messed

up on his promo, forgot what he was supposed to say. But but what you just said with that plant, so you think that they're you think that there's something to that tractor trailer. I suspect there. Maybe I'll give it a fifty to fifty chick, maybe a little more than fifty I'll say seventy five to twenty five. That is. I love the way you just

pulled all of that out. I love it. I mean, I think they have to just make it the most overbooked, crazy chaos like this is what the story is built to. That's like Avengers Endgame, WWE Versus bloodline type storyline, right, so might as well bring it all the I mean, and the reason that John Cena and Steve also want to have reason to get involved in it is because they're lifelong rivals of the Rock, and the Rock is the one leading this whole charge. So, and they're both company

men, right, it's w W vers bloodline. Basically, they're both company men, faces of the company. Yeah, I think it all makes sense, and I think I do think there's a good chance that happened. Do you have a quick case for Roman Reigns possibly retaining, Well, you get out for being off. No. If Roman Rings retains, people will be pissed off, especially Dave Lagreca, He's probably gonna lose his mind. Yeah, I know, I know somebody's gonna have to restrain him. Let's put

it that way. We need can't We may need handcuffs for day but yes, there is a case to be made. But my only concern is that if Cody doesn't finish the story at WrestleMania and walk out the champion. Yes, they can get him still to that level where he is right now, but it's going to be a harder challenge to keep people invested in Cody.

That's that's my only concern. Can they do it? Sure they can, They've show that they can in the past, and he is resonating with the audience, But at the same time, you're running a risk there that you don't need to take. Sure this is a guy you could strap the rocket to. We've already seen him. He goes to around ringside after the shows for about an hour, signing autographs, taking pictures with kids, all that sort of stuff, you know, and you know, he's the ultimate babyface

in twenty twenty four. A baby face like that normally wouldn't get over, but he has. Yeah, you know, because everybody it's a cool thing that you're the heel now, you know, and look at guys like like Drew McIntyre doing some of the best work of Speaking of Easter eggs, did you notice the East Aig when they were doing when they were talking New Day and him and Hayman. Him and Hayman were having a little chat backstage talk about there you go, I didn't see that. That's that's absolutely fantastic.

So I'm me. I've been pushing it to nausea in the last two three years, ever since the the Tribal Chief thing. You need to have Rock versus Roman reigns. That needs to be a doesn't need to be for a championship. Maybe not. I just felt like they were too far gone with this, with them to being so close to this record, that might as well just go ahead and make it for the championship. But like I just I just want to get to that match. I don't care what's I want

to get to the Rock and Ro. It doesn't it doesn't need to be. Yep, that match could happen for the true head of the table. That's all it needs to be. And you can plant that seed before WrestleMania again. Me and my brain works overtime when I'm thinking about this stuff. You know, because everybody a lot of complaints out there that Rock has dominated the picture instead of Roman and that I'm one of those people that think that. No, and you have every right to see that that way, and

I understand that point of view. But at the same time, before you get to night too, you got to get through Night one. And who is a bigger global superstar that right now than the Rock. So he's going

to get eyeballs on the product. And you know, maybe we go into the the go home smack down where they get into the ring the bloodline, Rock, Roman, everybody Hayman holding the title in the whole bit, and Rock's about to start his finally, and Roman just puts his hand on the mic like he did a couple of weeks ago where he stopped him from from

finally. You know, if you smell what you know whatever Rock was about to say at that time, before he even speaks his not put his hand on his arm, put his hand over the mic, take it away from him and see, okay, t k O board member, you've said enough. Now it's time for me to speak. I'm the head of the table. And then just Rock all it has to be a very subtle little I got my glass this year, I'll do it. All he has to do

is because rockwards the glasses. Now, all he has to do is a subtle, little you know, just just give that look, plant that seed, and then we're off to the races and whatever happens on night one and night two. You know, let's say Cody goes over Rooman loses, have Rock Terror and Tarra manw a hole. You know what I mean? You know, you let the family down, you let the family tree down, you let the bloodline down. You're a disgrace. You're you know, you

could actually and then set up something for them. Yeah, yep, maybe do the year long build like you did for for Rock and Sina for why not? Yeah, I agree. It's a big It's definitely a big enough match for it. So this is how it goes on the baby Faces. We say one more question, We twenty more minutes. But no, I love it. But that's my fault too because I like talking this stuff.

So you get my wheels journey, and that's what happens. We could keep going for hours, brother, right, but hey, we'll let you get out of here. Everybody be sure to follow Jimmy on social media and the Reffing It Up podcast. Like we mentioned Jimmy, any anything else before we get you out of here. No, just like you said, the Reffing It Up podcast with my good brother Stribes, Brian Hebner, and r J Wolves the glue together for us. He's the technician, let's put it that

way. We have a lot of fun. We have some great guests. We had Hornswaggle on. Recently. We just had Angelina Love and It's like a boy fodder on for this week's episode, which, yeah, which we had a fun time catching up because Angelina for the Toronto girl, so you know, I know her. She's awesome. You know. I do the stuff at Wrestling Ink as well with with Justin Lebar and Jack Farmer on Monday nights after araw and then I do the post Dynamite review on Wednesday nights,

and who knows, you may see me pop up in Philly. You never know. We'll be here. It's almost, it's almost. It's only an eight and a half hour drive. I never know. I'm always in for some good cheese steak. I just strap a rocket onto Charles's back and he'll run down there with you. Yeah, no kidding, and not get tired. Awesome man. Well, hey, happy WrestleMania season and we'll talk soon for sure. You got it, guys, Thank you very much,