If something's getting in front of the CFO or someone on their team, if it doesn't speak to the business issues at the revenue cost risk level, you've got some work to do. You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello, and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel klep Miller. Today we're going to talk about making your case to the CFO, selling to the chief financial officer the finance office. Some of us may be in a situation where we are finding ourselves having to make that investment case to this type of role more and more, and perhaps when the budgets weren't as tight, we never had to
do this. So Brian Lasher is going to join me today to break this down and talk through some things to think about when you're meeting with finance. Hi. Brian, Hello, Rachel, Hello, Hello, great topic today, So let's just start. Brian with scrutiny on spending, we are likely
more aware of the influence of CFO has on our opportunities. Some may say we should have been there all the time, but regardless, let's start with this persona and the key things we need to remember about what they care about. Okay, so finance one on one, right, everybody knows that the CFO and the people that work in that part of the organization, or we should know. You know, these folks care about the overall financial health of
the organization. That is what they're chartered with. It's cash flow, it's financial planning. The CFO themselves or the persons sitting in a sea like that is typically going to be a strategic advisor to the CEO and the board. So I think we've got to remind ourselves just of you know, put ourselves
in that headspace for a minute. It because our thing, our proposal, our recommendation for this organization that we're working with, is one of a million things that's on this person or this group's desk, and many of those things that are on their desk probably have a higher consequential value to the organization. That's just the reality. Now, with that in mind, I think you have to assume, and let's talk about this collectively, whether it's the CFO
or the rest of the organization. Right, Like, we're not just talking about one person. We could be talking about multiple people, right, depending on the size and the complexity of an organization. But I'll continue to use
it in the singular. Rate this person, you have to assume that they're going to spend probably less time, not more, on whatever we are putting in front of them for consideration, right unless that thing that we're about to put in front of them meets some sort of threshold of strategic value or importance to the business. So I think that's first quest she got to ask yourself, Hey, is what I'm about to put in front of this person of
strategic value or compare to all the other things that they're thinking about. I mean, imagine selling to one of the big three automakers right now, right Like, whatever you're selling, it's probably down the list, right So if it doesn't meet that threshold of strategic value, there's still a good chance it's getting in front of them, So it better jump off the page pretty quickly.
Like the things that they care about, which I know we're going to talk about if it does meet that level of strategic value, because for some deals we are strategically high high, high level important, well then it better not just jump off the page, but it better stand up to some pretty
rigorous review, right. And in either case, if it doesn't attach to revenue cost or strategic business risk, then your proposal is probably going to end up in the wrong pile because the threshold has come way down on what's coming across their desk in terms of spend. I've validated this with every CFO and CEO that I've talked to in the last twelve months. They're all looking at smaller spends than they used to, and they're looking at them with a much
more rigorous point of view. So I think that's a good starting point. Come on, Mike, Yeah, correct, that's the nuts symbol of this persona, and we're calling this persona the CFO. It might beat somebody with a different title in your organization lower if you're selling to large organizations. But we talk frequently about aligning your value and differentiation to the required capabilities for your buyer as it relates to various buyer personas. So we've talked about implementation we
talk about the economic buyer, we talked about the technical buyer. All important, right, getting to that collective. Yes, that concept, but it's also something you need to consider for the CFO. And you kind of mentioned there when we're talking about the PERSONA. Talk about this level setting that you did on this PERSONA. Let's talk about that and how you're coaching reps right now to pull that point of view together in their deals as it relates to
value differentiation required capabilities all that. Yeah, great point. So well, in my mind, it does go back to what we were just mentioning, right, the CFO in this case, they care about the most effective and efficient use of resources, right, which includes time, people, and money. Now, specifically for the CFO, it's the money, right, it's
the cash. Like they typically will count on other leaders in the organization to determine whether or not this thing that they're thinking about doing, whether or not that they have the resources available and the time to get it done right and that those are a good investment. But it's the finance organization that's often going to have a heavy voice in whether or not this is the most effective and efficient use of some of their cash. Right. So with that in mind.
Here's the coaching, your recommendations, your proposal, whatever it is you're about to put in front of someone. You've got to help the CFO easily answer the file questions. There's three questions. The first question is kind of two parts, right. The first question is for the CFO, why would we do this project now for the business right or set a different way? What are the tangible business outcomes? Right? The problems that we're going to
solve and avoid and the outcomes achieved. That's for the business. That's the first question. The second question is, well, how long is it going to take us to achieve those outcomes? Because there's a payback period associated with how long is it going to take to solve the problem or to stop the bleeding or to ensure there isn't any other bleeding? And how long is it
going to take to get to those potential outcomes for the business. And then, last, but not least, and maybe most important, like it's the thing that often will push something over the edge, is well, how sure are we that we can actually achieve these outcomes? So your ability to give them the answers to those three questions upfront is really really critical because those three questions are what CFO are asking themselves consciously or subconsciously. And again I mentioned
this earlier. I have been validating this for the last twelve fourteen months since we've seen the economy shift right and the macro that everybody's dealing with. So my question is to a seller from a coaching perspective, is what are you doing to help the CFO and their team? Often people that we will have less access to, but their team will have more access to. Right, I'm typically dealing with people below the CFO. Most of us are not getting
a lot of access to the pafos. That's the reality of the world. So what are we doing to help the cfo's team answer those questions so that when they get in front of the CFO, they're much more ready for the conversation. Let's make this clear for those of people listening. Are we saying change the business conversation for the CFO? We're nuancing it? What are what
are we doing here? Yeah? I don't necessarily think that you have to change it, but I like your word nuance right, But you have the nuances right, So I think it does have to be very direct and pointed to those three questions that we just asked. CFOs don't have a lot of time. Look, there are only two outcomes if you don't do this well. Whether you're the one in front of the CFO, or other people are getting in front of the CFO, or other people in the customers organization are
going to the CFO on our behalf, there are only two outcomes. I guarantee that there are only two outcomes when we take this recommendation, this proposal, whatever it is, to the CFO. If we can't answer these questions, one or two things is going to happen. The downside option is that your deal dies right the CFO or somebody just kills it because they can't answer these questions and they don't have the time or the patients to deal with it.
They got a big pile of really critical stuff they got to deal with. That's the worst case scenario. The best case scenario, when the CFO can't easily answer these questions for themselves with what's in front of them or who's ever presenting it, is that they send their team off on some sort of fishing expedition or hunting mission to go get the answers to a bunch of questions
and now think about what that does. That creates a brand new set of meetings and actions, et cetera, which typically at best loves deals down and time kills deals. Yep. Right, So I think that's I love your word nuance. But it all goes back to that initial comment. If something's getting in front of the CFO or someone on their team, if it doesn't speak to the business issues at the revenue cost risk level, if it doesn't speak to the what's it going to solve for? How fast is it going
to solve it? And how sure are we that we can get to those outcomes? You've got some work to do. Yes, So you mentioned Brian that we're not always going to have access to the CFO. Right, It's not like they're sitting there with an open calendar invite. And let's dig into that a little bit. Do we really push to get access? Are we focusing our attention on equipping others they are champion to help make that case?
What's worked well when you don't have the direct line. I hear you saying a lot of things about if I were to sum it up, click message as it relates to what's important to that and making sure that message is clear so it can travel. But what's worked well, when you're equipping a champion, you don't have access to the CFO to make that case. Well, I'm glad you brought this up. I think it's important that we're just honest
with ourselves. CFOs are not sitting at their desks anxiously with waiting our phone costs. Right, everybody knows it. Nobody wants to say it, but everybody knows it. So I think we have got to learn about how the organizations we work with make decisions, how the CFO and other executives run buying decisions, and where in their organizations do people typically have formal authority and where
and who has informal authority. I think this is a really important skill set for a seller, and this is one of the big reasons why, because we're not always going to get access to everybody, especially the higher up in the organization. Right. And by the way, I think developing the leveragy champions is a great strategy, but that too, in and of itself, is also difficult. Right. I think you've got to be willing to listen to others like coaches. Right, I think you've got to be willing to
think about triangulating the truth. I meet with multiple people, I have similar conversations, so I can look for common data points and start to realize that, oh, Rachel, this person she really understands and gets it, and what she says lines up with but this person over here, there's something going on. I get different answers, like I can get back in a room
and really think about how these puzzle pieces go together. I do think, however, that maybe the most important skills set I was just starting to poke at this a second ago. I think there's something that you know, I'm
pretty passionate about that is really critical here. It's this idea of having a solid point of view of buying cycles that you are involved in and the key players, because knowing who's going to be a part of the conversation because of your other experiences in the marketplace that you serve one makes it easier to educate the people you're in front of and lay a path to access to others that
most sellers don't normally get. Because most sellers are asking the question throughout the buying cycle, especially early on as they meet people, Hey, what's your decision process? And they're asking you that question to people who probably don't really know what it is. They might know some part of it, but they don't know the whole thing. I mean, think about it like whatever I do for a living, whatever I represent, whatever I sell, I'm in
that conversation all day every day. The person I happen to be in front of right now is in that conversation for a very short period of time. They don't buy every day, they don't buy our stuff every day, et cetera, et cetera. So being able to go on the offense with a point of view from the moment you enter and help people identify who's important and who's going to have a voice, whether or not I ever get access to those people are not well actually start to give me a chance of getting more
access to the host people. Right. So, at a minimum, this point of view helps you educate who you're in front of. That Hey, I understand Rachel, that you are one of many. Obviously I'm going to honor that, but I also know that there's value and you and I getting to those other people to understand their point of view. But the second thing does is it helps you message why access to those other people and their point of view should matter to you. It's funny I when I coach people and
then we talk about this, they talk about it. Yeah, I got to get I'm working with someone named Rachel, and I got to get to Rachel's boss, Grant, and I'll say, Okay, explain to me how you're going to ask for that, and they always do this. They give me this, Well, Rachel, you need to let me meet with Grant so that I can. And when they've done, I say, well, who is that? Ask all about was about the seller? And my response to that is, well, why wouldn't that ask me about why Rachel should
take you to Grant? What's in it for her and what's in it for Grant and seeing you their value is not about you, It's about what am I giving to you? Right? And then third, but maybe most importantly, especially in this situation, when we're not often the one who's getting the access to the CFO or the people in that part of the organization, it helps these people that I do have access to more effectively message when I'm not
in the room. So yes, we can talk about using executives on your team to help you get access to executives on the customer's team and all of those other grand ideas. I think that's really good. All of that,
it's all good. Or I think as a seller for the things that you can do and the things that you can control, this knowledge and this well thought out point of view on who the other players in the customers organization are and why their points of view matter is your best chance to either getting to people who were higher up like the CFO, or at least ensuring that when people get there on your behalf, they're in a much better position to message
in a way that the CFO cares about. That's some great points in that segment that you just did, Brian. I think those are really important points for us to remember. Those of you are listening can't see, but Brian is shaking his fists in happy advancing. One other topic I wanted to bring up. When you make your case right, how does it matter to that matters them? Right? It's not about you, It's about them and their outcomes. And it reminds me of the recent episode we did with Tim Cato.
You're calling on multiple options and branding those as it relates to the outcomes. You're trying to drive for them the outcomes they're trying to achieve. Using these right, can be really effective in your negotiations. But I'm seeing also how they can really benefit you with the CFO. Yeah. So, first
of all, I just have to give a plug for this. If you haven't listened to that podcast, that strongly suggests you do, because I think Tim's point of view that he has helped our firm develop on negotiation and the power of multiple options when done in a way that is customer focused, is really some amazingly great content that is so far past the simple word negotiation.
It is so it's so good, so valuable. But in the case of a CFAIL, if I and the people I do have access to can develop two or three options, all of which would be really good positive outcomes for the customer, I mean, who doesn't like choices? Right? And So now what I'm doing is I am helping my customer team make the cfo's decision that much easier because now one of two things are likely to happen. The CFO is potentially likely to look at two or three options and say to the
team, oh, you've actually thought through this at multiple levels. Right, we could go for the whole thing right now, and here's the outcomes and the value that that creates for us. Or we could do some sort of crawl walk run approach. I'm just doing this in the moment, right, and here's the business value for us short term versus long term. So now the CFO is thinking, oh, this group has done their homework. That's the first thing, and a may choose one of those options and or allow
the team to more readily choose. Right, A lot of things happen. You're not putting the CFO in a box of this is what we should do. This is the one thing. This is our only option. Right. The second thing, and I think this is something else to remember, is when a CFO sees two or three options, the other thing that could potentially start to happen is they may not choose one of them, but they may start to say to the team, well, you know, it's interesting.
I like a lot of the stuff in option two, but there's a couple of things over here an option one that I think we would want to have if we get option two. Is there a way to do that? So now the CFO is actively engaged in helping craft a solution out of those two options, that makes the most sense in their mind. So I think your tie back to that episode, Rachel is spot on. It's really well thought out, and I would highly recommend people go back to that if they haven't
heard it because there's so much in there. Thank you, Brian, and I'll make sure to link it in the show notes. Check that episode out everyone. And it also goes to, as you said, the clarity of message. Right, the CFO doesn't have enough time they want to see and often the multiple options, although you should be kind of positioning them throughout your negotiation process, as Tim would say, but the CFO might be looking at them later and on in the process and you want to make sure that it's
really clear for them. Any final thoughts on this topic as we wrap up, Brian, I think I would say, as I always like to say, be realistic in your expectation to the access. So if that's true, and we're going to be honest with ourselves and know that the higher up we go on an organization, typically the amount of access we're going to get is less right and fewer times, we have to be really ready so that when we do get that access or someone tries to get us that access or has
to go there on our behalf. We can meet that person, in this case the CFO where they live. And as I like to say, when that piece of paper, hard copy or digital is in front of a CFO representing our recommendations and our solutions, here's my ultimate question. Does that document, by itself, with no one else in the room, have the ability to jump off the page, grab the CFO by the shoulders and give them a little bit of a shake and say, hey, CFO, you can't
afford to not do this right now. This is a really smart investment for organization to solve for the following problems, to avoid additional issues, and most importantly, drive for the following outcomes in a timeframe and in a way that is sure. Just be honest with yourself. If it can't do that, you got some work to do. That's my take. Here we go. Thank you Brian Walsh, thank you Rachel. All right, be sure to check out the show notes for some additional resources on all the topics. Brian
mention, and thank you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started.
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