I feel very strongly that a champion has to have a vested interest in your solution, not solving the problem. You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth, presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to
the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel kleb Miller. Today we are going to talk about one of our favorite topics, Champions, and joining me for the conversation is Polly Jim Puliopolis. Thanks for joining us, Coolly, Thank you, Rachel. Always a pleasure to be on the podcast with you appreciate it. You know, we cover a lot of angles on Champions. We have a lot of podcasts on the topic. We'll link them in the show
notes. But we do that because there's such a critical persona as it relates to our opportunities, and they really help us with the rest of the deal if we can nurture those relationships appropriately. I know, Pully, with your work at force Management and your previous career, Right, You've conducted a lot of opportunity coaching sessions, and I know there's some common patterns you see around
champions. Yeah, yeah, this whole topic of champions. I'd say, of all the things that I deal with when I'm sitting with a seller and sometimes a seller and a manager and we're reviewing a deal and you know, trying to get really deep into it, of all the things related to deals, the topic of champions and the topic of metrics, which is a topic for another time, but champions and metrics are two things that always really come to the forefront as areas where there's a lot of weakness in a lot of
deals these days, right and so, And I think that's because of a couple of things. I think you know, as you said, there's a lot of content. We have a lot of podcast episodes on champions, as books written on champions and medic Right. I mean, champions is a thing that everyone talks about all the time. But I truly believe that eighty to ninety percent of the deals that I sit in on when someone mentions the word
champion, I just get ready to cringe a little bit. Because in eighty to ninety percent of the times, the person does not have an actual champion. And I'll say that right out front. I'll say that's not a champion, and they'll say, what do you mean. This person always responds to my emails, this person always talks to me when I call, They've given me some incide information. Of course, they're my champion. They're committed to
solving this problem. They're my champion. So that's what I hear. And I always step back and go back to the basics and say, let's go through that three part definition of every champion, and let's just test it a little bit. Let's just talk about that. So I guess my thesis here is that if you're listening to this and you think you have a champion, I guarantee you in ninety percent of the times you do not. And we're
going to prove it today, right, We're going to improve it. So so that definition, that three part definition you had mentioned it, it's somebody who has power or influence within the organization, has a vested interest in your success, and actively sells when you're not there, right exactly, that's the three legged stool. So when you go to these opportunity sessions. How are
you gauging that? What are you looking for? What are the triggers that say, okay, that ten percent that really the tempersode that really have a champion? Right, So when you know, when the name of the champion gets brought up, you know, I'll just ask, right, tell me a little bit about this person. What has she done to prove to you that she's selling on your behalf internally? Right? So that's usually the lowest
bar for me. I think that's usually what I hear from someone when they say, well, you know, she introduced our solution, and last team meeting, she brought in some internal resources to talk about how they might integrate this or whatever, you know, whatever the problem is, how our solution might be a good fit. Okay, great, fantastic. She sold a little bit on your behalf. Now let's go to the power and influence has she made she influenced any kind of a decision like this in the past and
moved the needle for a deal of this size. Right, Typically, we're working with sellers that are selling you know, prett significant deals, and that's where sometimes they begin to get a little leary, like well, she's new to the organization, or she came from a different company. She's just come in and now she's trying to get this under control. Or she's never been in charge of a project this large, but they've given her responsibility around this
one. Right. Those sometimes those a little bit red flags for me. Right, and then, and I'll say, we'll dive into that a bit. But the last piece, the vested interest in your solution. This is the one that sellers get wrong more often than not. And the reason is when I ask them about a champion and I say, tell me why she is your champion when it comes to her vested interest in your solution? And now, well I'll hear, is she's responsible for solving this problem. It
sits squarely on her desk. She's the one that has to go solve this problem. Like, why does she have to solve it with your solution? Well, no, no, it's not that it's like that she has to solve the problem. Like, then she is not your champion. I feel very strongly that a champion has to have a vested interest in your solution, not solving the problem. Right, there's a fine distinction there. If her
job is to solve this problem. Let's say there's some cost overrun problem that keeps occurring, and there's three different vendors out there that can probably solve it for her. If your solution doesn't resonate with something she's trying to do differently than the rest, then by definition she's not your champion. She really needs to kind of want your solution as part of what happens going forward. So
that area there is maybe one of the deeper areas of inspection. Well, I'll say, tell me what she wins internally, personally and professionally if she picks us as the solution provider here, And a lot of sellers get stuck at that point, or they'll give me some kind of explanation what's going on in her organization, why why she might be the one. But my next question usually is the one that really reveals it. So the first question is
tell me what she gains by picking us as the solution provider. My second question, which is my favorite coaching question when it comes to champions, is what does she lose if we lose the deal. That's an eye opener for most people. For sellers don't usually think about that. They're like, well, what do you mean, what does she lose if she'll pick a different vendor and she solves the problem. If she's your champion, she has put
herself on the line for you. She's your confidential informant inside the organization. She's your undercover agent inside the organization. She has done something or giving you information that is helping you along the way. And she has put herself out there by selling on your behalf, using her power and influence to push your agenda a little bit in the organization because she truly believes it's the right solution.
Yours is the right solution. And if for some reason they pick somebody else, she loses a little bit of credibility, she might lose a little bit of power, she might lose something internally. So that I think is the more appropriate question with is what does your champion lose if they don't pick you as the solution provider. I think if you're a seller and you're listening to this, step back from the deal that you're thinking about right now and
apply that question to it and say, what does my champion lose? And if you don't know if they lose or win, that's fine, just means you need a little bit more discovery. Well, that person you just need to spend a little more time with them and dig a little deeper to see what is the personal win that they might have by working with you. That was going to be kind of sets up the next question I had coolly. If there's probably a lot of salespeople listening saying, oh, no, I
guess I don't have a champion. That's great? What do I do now? Can I nurture the people that I thought were champions? Or do I find somebody else? Like, what's the how, what's the action? Yes? I think it's yes to all that. So I think if you have someone, let's call them a suspected champion or a coach, right because I think if you're missing one of the three legs of that stool, you know, power and influence, bested interest or selling on our behalf, then you're
a coach, right because you're you're still helping your seller. So let's say you have a coach or stakeholder was positive about what you're doing, it's possible to help them gain power and influence. Sometimes power and influence comes from access to information and resources that nobody else has. So if you're selling into a situation where you feel like you're suspected champion doesn't have enough power and influence.
What can you do for them? Give them access to maybe resources from your company, information, industry insights, you know, what are the things you can give them to build their credibility inside the organization and therefore build their power and influence. That's a perfectly valid strategy. If you don't quite know what their vested interest is in your solution, then have more conversations with them and
find out what are they trying to accomplish personally and professionally. I think sometimes in discovery we rush too quickly to why you should buy from us, and we don't spend enough time on building rapport with the champion and saying, tell me a little bit about what you're just trying to achieve personally and professionally. Right, You've got to build some report to get to that point. But that report building is actually a lot easier earlier in the sales cycle than it
is later. The later in the sales cycle, we try to build rapport with a potential buyer, a champion, an economic buyer, a tech buy wherever they are. The more on the defensive they are, because now they're starting to feel like, Wow, they're just trying to build report me because now they're going to make the ask. They want to close, they want it negotiates on. Now. Oh, now they're interested in my hobbies and
my personal background and my professional goals. So do that earlier in the sales process and just try to figure out what is it about your solution that gives this person an actual win, so that they feel like they've got some inner motivation to go push forward. Internally, the selling on our behalf. Honestly, I think that's the easiest part of it, and I think that's why eighty to ninety percent of champions listed in every CRM in the world are not
champions, because that's how most sellers gauge it. Well, you know, they're selling on our behalf. They've said some things for us, they've done a presentation for us, they've brought us in. So if you're a seller, focus on those other two points, the power and influence and the vested interest in your success. So whoever you've already established a relationship with dig deeper, figure out those two other elements. Now to the other point you made,
which is should we look for someone else? We should always be looking for someone else, right. I think you know the old ABC's of selling right in some of those cheesy movies that we used to see, Always be closing, right, That's such nonsense. It drives me nuts when I see it. But I think there are a new set of ABC's. Always be connecting, Always be connecting with people in an organization, as you never know
who might turn into a champion now or down the line. So just be a collector of people, right, Just meet as many people as you can in an organization. You can always kind of identify people that should be champions by looking at our own influence invested interest. So you look at an organization and you think, well, that VP over there seems like if I can get in front of them, they've got a personal mission to accomplish X,
Y or Z, our solution can help them get that. I can latch onto that vested interest they have in the problem and the unique way we solve it. Now, I've got one leg of the stool, right, and now let's figure out that does that VP have powered influence in the area that I'm trying to sell into And can I convince them to sell on. My behalf does an old saying, it's like, start with where you are,
with what you have, do what you can. So whoever you have now is listed as your champion, dig deep into them, but then open your lens and say, well, ELSEO in your organization could be a champion. Maybe the person you have as a champion now will introduce your other folks because you know what, that might build their credibility and their power internally by saying, I've got this great solution provider, they've got great insights in the industry.
Let me bring them in and show you what I have been able to, you know, kind of unveil by working with this outside solution provider, this seller. So I think it's never too late to find more people to target. I do think the lady you do it in the sales cycle, the harder it is to make that genuine connection with someone where they might actually help you at the end. So, and the end of the deal is
usually where they all slip, right. I mean it's like we're all very confident until we hear no, and then you know, your manager looks at you and says, you said this was the champion. Yeah, but they really have a vested interest in my outcome. Right, they have power,
but they were just trying to solve a problem. That brings me to the point I was going to say, there's no reward, like if you're using medic for example, for checking that champion box in the CRM, either literally or figures like say like I got one, I got one, yeah, right, And the more discerning you are, or the more particular you are on really calling out a champion, the better your deal will be for it, the more helpful it'll be to you. Yeah, it's kind of like
buying insurance. Right, nobody wants to buy insurance. I just had to buy some insurance. I don't want to buy insurance, but you need it. You got a car, you got a house, you got a spouse, you got to have insurance. Right, But later on, when you need it, you're like, thankfully I bought insurance when I did, right. Same thing with a champion. Nobody wants to spend all that extra time figuring out is this champion really a champion. We almost treat it like a
bingo card. Right, I got the M, I got the E, I got the d D. You know, I got the I I got the you to see bingo, right, I should win this deal. So that's very quantitative. But what I'm saying is, let's take a qualitative look at the champions. Develop them early, buy that insurance early, so that later on when the deal gets hard to close, because now we're talking about
actual numbers and prices and fees and implementation plans. Right when things get hard later is when you need your champion to rise up and say we got this right. But that's where most champions fall short because they ain't got this. They don't have the power, they don't really have that invested interest of a solution in your solutions, so they don't really want to at the end of
a deal put themselves on the line. So the earlier in the process you develop them, the more that you develop, right, never be satisfied with the hand that you're dealt. The more that you the more champions or champions in waiting or coaches that you can develop, the better. And again, people are much more open to make those connections earlier in the conversation because they're not on the defense of a feeling. All right, it comes to close. Now I gotta clam up. I can't really tell them too much.
So I think just always being mindful of that. And if you're in management, if you're a sales leader, I think the best thing you can do when a seller says they have a champion, don't just say great, let's move on to the decision process or the decision criterion. Let's talk about that champion. Right, Pause for a man to talk about the champion. Tell me what you know about them personally and profession Really dig into it as a
leader, because your sellers are going to follow your lead. Right. I think a lot of sales managers sometimes see the name in the CRM field they're like, oh, thankfully they got a champion listed. Right. So when my manager says, do they have a champion, I can say, yep, I saw it in the CRM. I want you to be supportive of yourselves, but I want you to be skeptical of what they say in terms of champions and economic buyers and tech buyers, right, but especially champions,
they are the most important. You can have a deal closed without a champion. It happens every day, right, but man, it's so much easier if you have a champion, and the deals are bigger and the deals are go a lot smoother, right, and then there's a lot more upsell opportunity if you work with a true champion. So I really think people need to
spend a little a long time on that. Yeah. Yeah, And you've given us some different things to think about as it relates to champion and really kind of peeling back the onion a little bit in that important role in our prospect accounts. Fully, always appreciate your perspective. Thank you, Rachel. I'm always happy to come on these calls, as you know. Just one
final thought. I've said this a couple of times with opportunity coaching sessions that I've done, and I've mentioned on some workshops I've done, I think every organization could afford to do a little bit of a champion's amnesty. Yeah. I think what I mean by that is take open up a period of time and take every champion's name out of the CRM and only let people put names back in the CRM if they can make the argument that they actually have those
three legs of the stool. Right. So this is where I think a lot of times our ego doesn't let us do that, right, We're afraid to admit that we get a lot of champions listen that are not really champions. But it's kind of nice to have all those names in the CRM. But if you're a sales leader, just step back for a moment and say, all right, let's just review. Let's spend a month just reviewing everyone's champion with no penalty for people that have champions that are not truly champions.
I think that's the key. It is like saying this, it's not bad if you have someone listen who's not truly a champion. Let's figure out how we make them a champion, or let's figure out how we go find the actual champion on this account. So champions amnesty, I think would be something I would love to start promoting a little bit more amongst organizations. There we go. Thanks for having me on because I love this topic. As you can tell. All right, thank you so much, and thank you to
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