Are they trying to save money, are they trying to lower risk? Are they trying to drive revenue? Whatever that outcome is, what's the critical path to get them there? You're listening to the audible Ready Podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in B
to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to the audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel klap Miller. Joining me for our conversation today is our own Timkato. Hi, Tim, Well, Rachel, how are you today? I'm good, I'm good. I hope you are doing well, Tim. Today we are going to talk about a concept called mutual action plans. We have a course on a center with the same name, and it's getting a lot of traction. It's also sparked some conversation in our community,
so I wanted to do a podcast on the topic. So Tim, let's just level set everybody on what mutual action plans are and when you should use them. Okay, So let me start with my opinion of what they are. They are the maybe top two or three of the most underutilized best practices for sellers. A very straightforward concept. It is usually when done well, embraced by both customers and selling organizations alike. But it is something that we tend to want to fly want them right. So this is what they
are. Technically, what is a mutual action plan? Well, it technically is exactly what it sounds like. It's an action plan that's developed by both sides to accomplish some kind of an outcome. So if you just start with that, what is it. I think it's a best practice to create alignment with a customer on a couple of things. Number One, the critical path
to achieve the desired outcomes they're looking for. That's a very important nuance I just said right there, not the critical path for them to buy something from you, the critical path for them to achieve an outcome they're trying to get to. Are they trying to save money, are they trying to the lower risk? Are they trying to drive revenue? Whatever that outcome is, what's the critical path to get them there. Secondly, it defines who is supposed
to do what they each step along that critical path. And then finally, what I think it really is why it's such a great best practice. It's ultimately a communication tool to stay aligned on expectations, who does what went and to achieve that outcome. And where that is a special or humple is if something goes sideways or somethinges and we've got to realign with the customer on what it takes to get those done. So to me, it's a best practice.
Now your second question, I think that answer to that is when there is a level of complexity in working with the customer to achieve the outcome they're looking for. Level of complexity. What the heck does that mean? That's
a big wiggle phrase, isn't it. But to me, it's when there are a lot of people on their side involved in the decision making and approval process, When there is a level of complexity in the solution that requires multiple functions on their side to get involved, when there are complexities tied to other initiatives or other things going on in the customers organization, or it would be
easy for things to be distracted. And oh, by the way, complexities from our side, the seller side, on all the folks and functions that need to take place on our side to align with those key activities to customers driving. So to me, it's when is it best used when there's a level of complexity in the process, the action plan that requires us to create some alignment up front, and what does that mean when is it not appropriate? I think at a certain level it's always a bread but once it's not
appropriately one, it's kind of a straightforward thing. The customers ready to go, They can make decisions and take actions to achieve their outcomes pretty easily. They're in control of all those things. When there's complexity, I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and you know it's a mutual action plan, but also as a tool to provide mutual value as you're moving these
buying and selling processes forward. They're very complicated for many of the people listening out there lots of moving parts and the real value here for us as sellers, provides a tool that allows you to point to and say, remember we said this, and it allows you to help the customer participate in our own rescue. Right. This is one of our favorite phrases. So talk a little bit about what a good mutual action plan does for us a seller and as the buyer. Yeah, I like the way you set that up,
Rachel. The mutual part something we do together. See, you got to start with the mindset thing. So much of what we do talks about the mindset before we get into the tactical activity. And the mindset for a mutual action plan is what you just said. It's something we do with the customer, not to the customer, right. And I think sometimes there's an old
school mentality around mutual action plans, which I mentioned before. This is the critical path for you to buy what I have, and I want to make sure I can close it on time according to my forecast, and I don't want anything on your side to get in the way of that. That feels like something I'm doing to the customer, and a lot of times they have a tendency to push back or resist making those kind of commitments up front.
But one's something I do with the customer to help them achieve their outcome. Then I think that's a different mentality and the process goes a lot differently. But what a good one usually looks like. It actually provides an overview of the key milestones in the journey to help them, the customer, achieve their
desired outcomes. So that's a big statement, right, It's like a visual Here are the three four eight milestones that we need to make sure we keep our eyes on, almost as if we were verse engineered from the outcome being achieved. What had to happen for that to take place, what had to happen before that, what had to happen, you know, before that.
So it's what are those milestones? Then within each milestones, what are the critical activities to achieve that milestone That get into the details of who's response for the activity, what's the timing for each activity, and you know, how are we going to confirm it's been done. So we're making progress along that path. But I think the other thing that we need to keep in mind
is our mutual action plan doesn't live in a vacuum. There's usually other things going on in the customers organization, and we have to reflect some of these other things. You know, sometimes our mutual action plans cascade a holiday in various parts of the world. We've got to take that into account. I remember years ago, dealing in the automotive industry, some of our projects carried
through a hunting season. Don't believe it or not. You know, things shut down, it's just the way it was in that part of the world, or a major release of some new solution or some industry issue. So I think it's best when it also accommodates outside factors that could influence our ability to achieve those outcomes. And of course the best ones of these, they're not done in a vacuum just on our side. It's something that's shared between
us and the customer. So it's like milestones activities for the milestones, who does what when, accommodating other considerations and something that we both keep current with each oggle. Yeah, you know, we talk about medic a lot, and this is really aligned to that decision process letter, and we also jog about reverse timelines. All of these things are kind of incorporated into this mutual action plan to document that process of what you're going to do and what the
customer is going to do. What are your best tips to get buy in from the customer to really lay this out with you. Yeah, well, I'll go back to the mindset. I just said, you know something I'm going to do with you, and I think I always have found these works when we start with intent. Why am I advocating we do this. There's a lot of stuff going on your side, There's a lot of stuff going
on our site. This has a level of complexity, and what I'd like to do is for you and I that have some type of a roadmap for how we're going to get this done. You know, when I position it again the wrong way, which is I want to make sure we get the signature before the end of my quarter, customer seat through that. Honestly, that's not their interest. But once we sometimes forget I don't know how we
could, but sometimes we do. I do it too. We forget the customers trying to get something out of buying something from a suit, you know, and they don't really care about our sale. They care about their problem being solved. So when I put this as I know you need to get this done. We're thrilled that we've got a chance to work with you to get that done. But in our experience, it's best if we map out
a plan how to get there. So I start with positive intent. I talked about the why I want to make sure I'm positioning this in the old term. Remember that old acronym that. We sometimes hear Rachel with them, what's in it for me? Well, I think it's what's in it for them. We've got to make sure we clarify that. But ultimately, the best baptice I've seen it, once you get past the intent and the why does it make sense, is just involve them in the process. I like
to start with a straw man or an example. Hey, based on our experience and expertise, these are some of the components, the steps, the milestone of our mutual action plan. But I'm just doing this based on my experience. I don't know everything going on in your world. This is where you need to come into play. And since you've brought up medic Rachel, this is a great way to test and leverage your champion. They might not be the ones working with you on the other side of the mutual action plan,
they might be a key influencer in the process. And I'd sure love to run my straw man past my champion to see what do you think about this? Am I about to advocate something that is going to create a problem? Are you going to give me some insights that Despite all your efforts here, Tim, I know you still like to put some predictability in your forecast, and I think you're assuming some things in here that are probably going to be a problem. I'd rather know all those things upfront. So it's share
the intent. Maybe create a straw man with the support of your champion, and start with that straw man and work back and forth with your contacts to create kind of version one draft of the mutual action plan. Yeah, that's a great tip. Give them something to edit rather than create, Like, give them something to work with, particularly if they've never done it before.
And you bring up that concept of champions tamwhich is such a good one and a critical component of all the deals, right, or they should be. And you know I mentioned the decision process. A mutual action plan can help you align with the decision process. But this is also a tool that can really help you in a lot of ways. You mentioned the champion throughout your
sales process and into your negotiations. What are some ways that we can use this tool beyond like the initial right, right, Well, you know it's not just decision process, Rachel. Part of the mutual action plan is a google process. The mutual action plan. By focusing on this with the positive intent of we are both trying to get to this end that creates value for you. You know, let's just be honest about it. It creates value for me too, But let's we're trying to get there. It will expose
disconnects. It will expose very likely things customers our context might not actually know about their own approval process. You know, we found raps over the last few years. Those approval processes have changed significantly, and they've done so out of the visibility of some of the people we've traditionally relied on, and all of a sudden they find out, Oops, our whole timing of our mutual action plan is are because I didn't realize this now requires a different level of
approval or their new consideration. So that's the other benefit of it. You start getting clarity upfront on some of those things. So, if you just looked at it from a medic standpoint, right decision process, approval process champion,
what role is the economic buyer play competition? Because guess what sometimes the biggest competitor we all face is that unbelievable competitor that seems to be everywhere in the world known as not yet business is usual, all right, And so when I'm up against not Yet, I want to make sure I've sold against
that from the beginning. What's the value of moving forward? But I want to make sure that not Yet doesn't go away when I get you know, someone saying, oh, yes, we want to go with your solution, Tim, not yet it is still working behind the scenes, which is another beautiful benefit of a mutual action plan. So I might have strayed from the original question you asked, Rachel, but it serves a lot of purposes.
But it can also serve the purpose of surfacing some of the unknowns that both you and a customer could be impacted by and trying to commit something to that one visual that one shared view of what it takes to get from here to them being successful. It exposes some things we might not be as sure of as we thought, and I'd rather surface them early than be surprised by them. Like well said, Well said, Yeah, mutual action plans. For those of you listening, these can be, as Tim said, a great
tactic. We also have a course on a center that I mentioned at the top of the show that is linked in the show notes. If you want
to learn more about creating them. Check out that link any final words of wisdom here, tim as we rap, I think you know what someone said, and I'm going to totally botch this saying because it's got about eighty five different example of permutations of it. But the idea of you know, a plan is worthless or planning is everything, and I think that applies here because the reality some of our mutual action plans depending on what our listeners, the
nature of their business, what they sell, the market they sell in the customers. Sometimes a mutual action plan can say to something complex, that plan could lay out over several months, and what do we know? I used to say, when humans get involved, things are guaranteed to change. When newman's in busy, Yes, this is get involved, things are guaranteed to
change. The other advantage of a mutual action plan it gives you something solid to go back to when the inevitable change that's going to happen hits you. Now are not oh my gosh, what are we going to do? You're right back to what part of this plan do we need to adjust? Is there any other contingency? Oh? Now that I know your end date cannot move, what do we have to accelerate in here? To make it happen. So just it makes for a different kind of conversation when the you know
what hits the you know where. So it's like there's a lot of advantage in this. But I think the idea here. Just keep in mind it's something we do with the customer to the customer. It's one way that I think professionals demonstrate their professional I'm an expert. I've done this before. Here's the critical path. I'm setting up clear expectations with you upfront. You've got to expectations of me. We're going to work with each other. This is
not an accountability tool. You said you got to know some mutual action one. Thank you so much, Tim Kato, A pleasure, all right, thank you to all of you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com. You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time.