Even though I'm not in them jollopool anymore. I listen.
I listen to what Rakadi of Nation has to say. She is a right Here in studio, we have Don who's a relationship coach. She's also an author of the book The Dating Playbook, and she's here today in studio to talk us through dating etiquette, us to do Welcome.
How are you. I'm okay, I'm good. I'm excited for the conversation. Okay.
And I think you can tell I'm excited because I have been speaking about how dating is just so complicated.
Now.
I don't know when things got this technical. Wow, when things became when they were dos and don't I mean, what happened to Hello baby, I love you. Give me three days. I'll go think about it. I come back. I love you too.
Yeah.
So, unfortunately, and anyone who follows my work knows this, it's just the way we've rearranged ourselves as communities. And unfortunately, you know, we are living through the unintended consequences of something where people were either trying to do good or to protect their kids. And it has a lot to do with the fact that we went and we put our kids in tiny little containers. And we also didn't
allow them to play in the yards. And it was all because of safety, right and protecting them in this big, big, uncertain world that we live in. And we forgot that, well, we didn't forget. We didn't actually we took for granted that the fact that you have to play, you have to find a group, you have to enter a group. You have to be able to adopt to the norms, you have to be able to handle conflict, you have to compromise, know when to embrace someone, know when to
draw bound. Is that that was teaching us social skills, and what has happened to a lot of people is that they've lost the interpersonal skills. Never mind just interpersonal skills, but also interpersonal skills that are important to inter romantic relationships.
So this whole idea of.
Why it becomes so technical and why you need someone like me really is because of the fact that you know that thing which people would have refined maybe in the late teens and twenties, learning how to form romantic
interpersonal relationships. They no longer have the opportunity to do so, right because of the fact that we live with amongst people who have and I always say this, if you've blocked somebody on what's up, if you're talking about you predicting your peace and boundaries and so forth, Yeah, that is a reaction to the fact that you do not know how to handle difficult times and conflict, right. And what you're finding in dating is people are so quick to ghost each other, to block each other and all
these other things. And isn't that because they just think there's more, there's someone else, There's always some I think also what has happened is that through social media and technology so instant gratification, if somebody doesn't download in five minutes, then it means, oh, no, he's not the one, right. And also because the internet gives you the illusion that there's more, that you can get more right because of the fact that you are seeing someone where you know
as people. There's something called a Jhiris window, and what it says is that the real you is found between how you perceive yourself and how the world perceives you, right, and somewhere in the middle, this is the really real you. And what happens is that people just generally overrate themselves and so you're seeing someone and you're like I am that person. I either have the same dating market value as that person or that good looking and that charming
and so forth. And if they can get a then I can get a too.
Yeah.
But the reality is, actually, maybe you're not that charming. Maybe your dating market value is not that high.
Dating market value we'll come back, we'll come back to. But maybe it's not that high.
And you think you have these amount of options, but you actually have quite a smaller base to play with than the person you're comparing yourself to. And that's what's happening to a lot of people. So they keep on thinking I meet better, I can do better and better. Then they get to a point in the life where either hits them that actually, you know what, what I've been coming across, So the people that I've been coming across actually good people and great people, and yeah, I should explore that.
What they end up lonely then that's the reality.
Sure, Okay, I mean divorced men my LORMI these days they call themselves baddies, And I'm like, well, once you're going through a midlife crisis and you do not realize it. You're seeking the sense of freedom and you think it's because of the fact that oh, I was so appraised in my marriage and so forth and whatever. No, actually, we just don't know how to recognize a midlife crisis because back then it was a bold man buying a Porsche, right, And now we live in twenty twenty five, and that
the midlife crisis looks a little bit different, right. And what's happening is that you have these bunch of men who are in the forties and fifties whereby human beings are coupled beings. We're meant to find someone to spend time with, whether in the context of marriage or being
a life partner. But we cove coupled beings and they're enjoying their time right now because also we malam, especially the black Malome, we probably are seeing a version of Malome that has slightly or even much more money than the Malumas of the past, right, And so there's much more freedom for them, and they don't know what to do with this freedom, and they're not also exploring this freedom in the context of you're going through a midlife crisis and it's gonna stop and one day you're gonna
yearn from companionship. But you've broken so many hearts along the way, You've burned so many bridges along the way that you're gonna wake up at fifty seven and you're gonna be like, ah, actually I wanted a companion, and yes, you think that my two thousand will be an option then. But you know, we grow and mature as people, and people seek companionship with the level of the frequency they're vibrating it. And you're a mature man, you're probably looking
for some mature love. But now you have to start all over again, and you've wasted ten years of your life whereby you even lost the skill of compromising, of accommodating another person, and sometimes it makes you undesirable at the end because you don't have that skill set.
That's what we're seeing in the market. It sounds so scary, you know, it sounds it sounds. It sounds like something I don't want to be a part of. So listen.
The term etiquette is hardly ever used, you know, for dating or to describe dating.
We think about etiquette, you know, at the dinner table, and you know, when you walk into boardrooms or you know, but we hardly ever think dating etiquette.
What does that look like is this how we.
Carry ourselves in the dating space when people want to into dating, and how far does it go.
So if you dissect the word etiquette, it's really how do you show up as the best version of yourself in the context of whatever it is that you're doing. And what happens in dating is that you know, as people, we act out our childhood in our adult years, so weproject a lot as people, and sometimes we do not understand where that comes from, and our and our expectations then manifest in the behaviors that we demonstrate. And a lot of people do not introspect, and it's just the
nature of human beings, although don't deeply introspect. And what happens is that we form these expectations and we don't ask ourselves what in forms these expectations. A lot of people form standards and expectations from a wounded place, and then what happens is that manifaces into behaviors when we start dating.
So I'll give you an example.
Let's say, for example, a single and I meet a guy, and I come from a place where maybe I have an absent dad wound, whereby if the guy doesn't show some kind of seriousness within it, or in the manner that I want him to show that he's serious, then automatically assigned that you're gonna abandon me like my father abandoned me, right, or I can even be super needy.
The what happens is that we start texting each other with this guy, and now, because the guy didn't text me at five per seven and he said he was gonna text me at five past seven, or definitely he can't be the one, right, And I'll start telling him, you know, you're not the one, or this all of the things, and I'm projecting all of this and transferring all my frustrations onto the And that's what's happening. From an etiquette perspective is that most of the dating literature, if you read.
It, it tells you how to behave.
And I take it a step further, and I say, you first need to understand what informs your behavior and where do they come from, and from an expectation perspective, because there then you don't have to remember rule book. When I was learning this thing, there were the rules
of dating. There was a rule book. Had a couple of friends before a restaurant used to have a black book and a rule book, and sometimes you'd go to the bathroom and then we'll look at this rule book to say, okay, we're at the stage in this conversation, what do we do as humor date.
Exactly?
You know.
But I was young and I was having fun and it was learning.
And what I learned from that process was that you do really want to give people a rule book. What you want to do is you want to psychologically prepare them in such a way that it's easy for them to show up as the best version of themselves on a date. And it's just been conscious first d it's not an interview. You're not asking for a blood sample, to be quite honest, you're not choosing a husband. You're just you're just literally getting to know the other person.
You know you need to be at ease. And if, for example, you're struggling a lot of demons, maybe you shouldn't be going on dates yet first to settle those demons, then you go on dates, because then you're going to project all sorts of things when you get to those dates. It's things like that. It's also about what what what do you want this person to take out from this interaction? About you, which is what opinion should this person form
about you? And you know, I always say, you can become what the person is looking for, or you can become or you can find a person who's looking for you. Now it's much more difficult to become because then it's not sometimes not aligned with your essence, your values and so forth. And rather find somebody who's looking for you. And I always say, you know, you just want to project that. So if the person walks away with the impression that this is who to do, is what's important
to do? Do and lightheartedly please like what is important? Not about the fact that you want seven kids by age thirty seven?
It state one. It's the date.
I was about to say, get it. I want the granular. You know how we go about fifty first.
I always say the first date, especially if this is the you meet a person. Maybe you know, South Africa's so unique in such a sense that you can meet a person walking down the road, Hello, nice, can I have your number? And so forth? Well, another parts of the world. It really is online dating, but people now slide into DMS. Yeah, it really is in essense the same thing. So if you're meeting this first one, for the person for the first time in a conversation.
I always say, keep it short.
Schedule a coffee, you know, don't make it a date, because the thing is when you go over two to three hours, now you're going to start telling your life story and your family secrets and your traumas.
Right, that goes against everything I've seen.
I've seen people saying, oh, you know, a coffee makes you seem as though you're you're low maintenance already, you're setting You're setting yourself up.
Because he's gonna think it's just like coffee. There must be greater effort. No women complain that men don't chase after them. Nobody chases somebody who's not running. When you spend an hour having coffee with somebody and you've got better things to do, that inspires the person to spend more time with you because there's not enough time to explore the entire conversation. So when they say, oh, more efforts and more of it, it's incremental. I just made
you today. Why am I taking you to a seven star hotel? Why do you have that expectation? You know, and I'm not saying the person must find the cheapest coffee place.
Around the corner.
But they just made you today, right, and we need to adjust our expectations. Seven star restaurants for anniversaries and special things and whatever, they're not for first dates. If that's a girl at who's expecting a seven star restaurant and so forth, you might just be setting yourself up for failure, you know.
So I think that's the other thing we just need.
And this is the reason why I talk about what informs your expectations because already you haven't even gone on a date, but you've already set the criteria as to how this person should wine and dine. You you know, what is your standard with regards to that. And I just think that people just like at the end of the day, most people are lonely. Most people are seeking a partner. So they have these expectations or I will not do this, or no, you know what, I know
my worth and so forth and whatever. But ultimately you go to bed and you're you're lonely, and there's nothing wrong with seeking a fulfilling relationships to relationships.
Sorry, yeah, we're human.
We have an innate desire to be part of a community and to be coupled, right, So there's nothing wrong with you with seeking that right, But if you want somebody else to receive you with care and to acknowledge that you're a human being, you should be able to receive other people with care, and it starts with your expectations. So for me, it's like the first date is something I hearted, it's just a high level view of who the person is.
Right.
I always say, you have no business, you know, asking the person if they want seven or ten kids on this on the first date. You know, it's establishing whether you can work with this person. So for example, if you have certain boundaries or maybe definite no nos. So for example, if you say, I don't want somebody who's a child, I don't want somebody who's been married before, I don't want somebody who's a drag at it.
Hopefully then you can.
Be able to establish that on date one and determine whether you really really want to go through with this or maybe you know what, it's okay, And I think the other dates are the opportunities now to know each other. So what happens is that a lot of people, especially women, they go on dates, they're trying so hard to impress the person. It's about shs just working hard to get this person to like me, but they end up not
knowing who the person is. And hence why somebody could date somebody for eight months and then the red flag comes and they was like, I didn't see those please please me like this since the beginning of time. Yes, you were just so fixated on praising this person. And it's a two way thing. It's a word you're really taking opportunity. You know, for example, when you go for interviews, and the reason why I use interviews there is a lot of you know, people who take interest.
In these conversations have jobs of some sort.
So if you go off for an interview, you know you're in a better position when you're like, when you're not on the tip of oh.
I hate my job, please hire me, hire me, hire.
Me, because if you come from that perspective, then you're not going to be able to negotiate a good salary.
And you know, like, for example, also the other person might be concerned that what am I taking into my organization, and you need to think about dating from that perspective, then nobody wants somebody who's like, oh please, please please, you'd give me off the dating market you know, well, please please please, you know, like I don't know, give me seven kids and seven months time, not looking for that people.
Are really looking for.
You're more attractive when you're at ease and if you know that you have some kind of things that you need to work through and heal from the pause, get yourself right first, then into the dating scene.
And that's the thing.
It's like, people don't understand that you have more success dating when you are happy.
We're speaking dating etiquette with Donzella. She's a relationship coach and she's helping us make sense of what dating etiquette actually is.
And I've been.
Saying, I know absolutely nothing about dating it together. Where I'm from, it's the basic killo guy.
And then yeah and yeah, oh you have woman, no my car exactly.
And I just feel.
Dating has become so it's evolved so much, and she's explaining it so beautifully to us about why we're in the situation that we are in right now.
I want to invite you.
I'm going to open up the lines or a double one double a three oh seven oh two two to one double four six oh five six seven. That's if you're in Cape Town and if you would rather send us an SMS. It's three one seven oh two, and I want to read to you the WhatsApp lance that if you want to send WhatsApp instead, it is a zero seven two seven oh two one seven oh two, looking forward to your contributions and looking forward to your questions. She's here studio for you to take your questions, so
get in touch with us. I want to speak about talking stages, yes, because I think while you speak about first date's not being you know the way you must lay it all you know and open up your chest. And but now there's something called the talking stage where people talk for seven months, yeah, five months, six months on.
The phone, yeah, and never meet.
So always ask, especially a woman, are you looking for a boyfriend or a pen pal?
Let's start there.
And I think the last time I heard anyone write anything to a pin pial was in the nineties. I'm forty three years old, so in high school they were pin pulse. Because what happens is that what is the intention of somebody taking your number? This person took your number so that they can take you on a date. And I always say, take the interaction out of a texting platform, be it social media or what's up as quickly as possible. I think a guy wants you, he'll
make a plan right. And if a guy is not sure about or if a guy's not really into you, he won't.
You won't be sure about him. You know, you'd be confused.
So for me when it comes to texting, I think you know, texting plays a role, but it's not the whole entire relationship. One, you are not looking for a pain pull. You are looking for a boyfriend. Number two are not a witch. So I don't understand why you're responding to texts at eleven twelve o'clock at night. You know that's somebody. There's an author called Robert Green. He told about the art of seduction. He says, you must poet, poet,
size your existence. So I have a couple of single friends and they'd be like, oh, we're texting from twelve and soil three am.
I'm like, don't you work? Like don't you have other things to do with yourself?
So I think also that you know, because how do you create like this aura of the person must look forward to talking to you, just like you look forward to talking to this person. I think you know that's quite important, and it you know, texting someone is low effort, to be quite honest, and you must ask yourself what does it take to date you? So, really, what does it take for somebody to date you, to make you a girlfriend, or to take you to bed? And if
it's three texts, I'm worried about you. It's a concern, right, It's just like somebody just texting you all the time. That is a big, big concern. And I think people need to ask themselves these questions. You don't have to answer me. You don't have to tell it to anyone, just to you and your ancestors. But when I'm allowing what I'm allowing in this interaction stage or this early interaction stage, what does it say about me?
So are you telling me three it takes three texts, not even to date you, to take you to bed?
Hey?
And if it hits hard, it hits hard like that, maybe people will think about it differently. Yeah, And here's why I always come in peace.
Maria. You're in a ravonia and you have a question for Doo doo about dating older people or dating for older people?
Very different?
Yeah, thank you thanks for taking my call. Yes, you know what I find from a lot of things that I read or hear on radio luck now and so of course it is a large part focused on younger people, which makes but I think that a lot of people who may divorced and so on and so forth not trying to get you know, like looking for another partner or something. I think that the playing games, the playing fields are like quite different, and and I don't think
there's an awful lot of advice out there. And what I find is that I think there are you know, a lot of men on the dating sites from what I understand is that they're looking for someone a woman rather that they can lean on it, they can kind of like you know, take advantage of financially or not wanted that like horrible things, but kind of like they don't have much to offer in other words financial Maybe they've been through multiple divorces, who knows, and how does
one kind of like weigh your way through that, you know, because it's it's no longer you know. Also, when you get to a certain age, I think you're kind of like you're being done that so to speak, and and you you you're wanted somebody you know who's mature, but who's so sufficient and who's able to take care of themselves if not of you, And a lot of the times I think it's it's not the case. It's not there's somebody that's kind of like you, you know. To me,
I ask a question. I'm not big on online dating. I'm not because I'm very cynical. And the one question ask is if it's a good man out there, and I mean good in the sense of he's good looking, you know, he's like financially stable and he's you know, a nice guy, and ask what the heck is he doing on the dating site? I mean why could he get Yeah, because normally yet easier for men than for women. The center the men comes out. It's like okay, so
like what you're hiding anyway? So iny advice or yeah, that's just my putting it out there.
Thank you so much, Oh Maria, I really appreciate that contribution because I think that encompasses a lot of what all the.
Women in the days you seen feel like.
Yeah.
So there's two parts is where do you meet quality people? And also probably around online dating. So let me start with online dating. South Africa's, like I said, it's very unique in a sense that you still can meet somebody walking down the road.
And the attitude a lot of South Africans.
Have around online dating is that if you're there because it's your last resort. So the very they're almost like, especially the attitude towards females, is that if a female is there, she must be desperaced, right And usually if people think that as a platform for desperate people, then all sorts of interesting male characters are going to be there, like the scammers, the guys who themselves have a low dating market value.
And you find a lot of dynamic there in.
South African And I think, and if somebody owns an online dating platform, I would really like them to hear this. So what happens is that you have a bunch of techies that design this right, like so this do do and lives in Centain and she says a single right, And then there's Tabo and table lives or somewhere very far far away from Centain but within how ding and lives in a back room. And then he's also single,
and he doesn't have kids and doesn't have kids. We're not the same type of single if you in the context of South Africa, we are not the same type of single, but from an an algorithm perspective, we're single. It is a match, right, And yes they say some of them they have behavioral psychologists there. But I think what people are looking for is a curated dating experience.
It goes beyond just an algorithm trying to match people up, but it's really in the context of who am I, in the context of the society that we live in. So that's what she's seeing from an online dating perspective.
I think when you're.
Older one, you're very clear in terms of what your nose are right and the type of people you want to meet. And I do think that the best space to meet people is within the interest groups. So it's either you're doing hobbies or you're finding yourselves in the space. You know, I have this thing that you misdefine the
market segment you want to play. You define that market segment, and then you immerse yourself within that segment, and whether that segment is around social activities and social groups.
I think that's where the better success is right one.
I think also at that age it's just looking for more quality conversations and you must be able to gauge very quickly whether the person is a waste of time. And unfortunately, in an unequal society like ours, we organize ourselves according to interest groups that are more along the lines of social class. And so if you find the interest group that speaks to you and within I don't know, probably the resources that you have, more likely the people
with that interest groups have the similar resources. So then you don't have to worry about scammers or a man
who now you have to financially support. But we do see that, and I think one of the biggest contributors also in South Africa is around the elevating the female in the workplace and what that has done from an income disparitys genders and so hence we have to just take into context also how we've been socialized to measure men and so and say what is eligible from a man's perspective in the context of where you're likely to find a job more than a guy, you're likely to
be promoted more than a guy, Maybe you should be realistic around your expectations.
Sure, that's such a loaded statement if we see yes, yes, because it makes one wonder are your standards too high? You know, and expecting him to just be able to take care of himself. Oh, surely that's the bare minimum, should be the bare minimum?
Yeah, But what does take care of himself? It's different, right in the context of so if I wasn't swagy, and you know, I could survive in ten thousand rands, taking care of himself is a man who earns fourteen thousand, But when you have turned on thousand that comes into your bank account every single month.
What is taking care of himself?
That's also relative, right, And just going to your question to say, should be reviewing our standards because we must understand what informs our standards. And I really in the context of Africa, and I think it was around all
races in Africa, to be quite honest. We are socialized to say that men look after women, right, you know, and we've had women being socialized to think like that centuries and centuries, and that has changed, right, and simply because of the fact that where we find ourselves from an economic perspective and the rest of the world, and also like in the dynamic of South Africa struggling economy, and also the dynamics in terms of elevating the female
in corporate and that's changing and we need some time to adjust. I think my appeal to females is that maybe look at your standards and look at the society you live in and say.
This is this is this aligned right?
And I think from a male perspective, what needs to happen is that the gender dynamics as a result of income disparity or the changes in income are changing. And maybe you should also look at your value proposition is not only the ability to look after a woman, but you know, I once heard something says that said that now that women no longer need a man to survive, man need.
To be interesting.
Yep.
And maybe maybe a male value proposition is asserting that you need to look at yourself and say, maybe I need to be interesting now today.
We're still taking your calls on zo double one W three seven two and on two A double four six O five six seven. Can you relate to what you Doo's saying is she's speaking to your soul. I'm sure she is speaking to many of you out there. A coming teram WhatsApp says concerning concerning dating etiquette. I'm one of those forty three year old baba who's amassed a lot of wealth.
HM.
My experience about dating is about what they read about me online, and many times I've realized that some of these ladies were planning to scam me for many who are you like?
I'm like any said, I've imlessed myself in money and I'm single.
I'm like, I've got friends.
Who are you?
So I've given up on dating and I do have many things to do, So for now I'm just literally waiting on God. I have no more desire to date anyone. I am not gay, but I'm happy alone and it's been.
Your So what he needs to do is he needs to pay for curated dating services and matchmaking services. What happens is that there will sift out all women who are more likely to look at him for his resources so and match him with people whereby you know, I think because of gender income disparities, sometimes you don't get a one on one match. But what happens is that you you almost like find people are vibrating at the same frequency where she's demonstrated that she can be successful
and she can look after herself. I think that's what needs to happen, especially when you are linked linked able that on LinkedIn, we can find you and we know you about and I think probably he needs that and if he really wants me to help him up with the service that does so I don't do that, but I do work with some who does that, then probably.
So how does this work?
So what happens is that they screen the people for you, and they screen so the basic things like and I think this is what dating platforms should do, right, screen the fact that this person doesn't have a criminal record, that this person says they are who they are, and they have a job, especially if that is important you know, from matching people perspective.
So they do all these screening these unnecessary things.
So by the time you meet Table, you know that I don't have to worry but the fact that Table scams people or Tuble's gonna ask me for one hundred K because they've done that screening. And also just in terms of mental stability screening, you know that I'm not going to meet somebody who's gonna go psych on me. To the point that there's also some coaching that's done before people even go and date, or sometimes you have to refer people to a psychologist to say, actually you're not ready to day.
You need to do some healing. So they do all of that.
So by the time you meet people like all these other things that you would have spent six hours trying to decipher better person liberty than that for you.
That's how it works. And how much do these people charge?
Do you know?
It's actually quite reasonable?
In South Africa, you could be charged between ten and thirty thousand.
Okay, yeah, okay, sure, I had no idea, never heard of such.
I call the matchmaking services.
Yeah okay, here's another comment. How this is an interesting one to do. How do you make yourself look more interesting? That change my dress code? Do I have a more jovial.
Convo, smile more well?
How do I present myself as more interesting?
So there's two elements to that.
The first one, I think the simple answer is that, I mean, I'm assuming those persons attracted to Maine, right, And we underestimate the power of femininity. And I think most of the time you know a lot of women because of the context of working in corporates and what successful looks like. I think we've adopted a lot of traits that men want to date women.
Straight men, they want to date women, that's what they want.
They want to feel like soft person and Most of the time when I have a client and they're more on the masculine energy side because they've had to survive and not necessarily because it's their natural default. I just ask them to find a version of femininity that they can relate to be it that you know, you say, I love being a damsel industries, maybe you should look like a damsel industries, you know, soft feminine and so forth.
So that's the the yeah, the one part. The other thing is that you must defined the segments you want to play in, because what makes you interesting is based on the type of people you want to attract. I always say, if you're looking for a future president, maybe you should be going and studying politics somewhere and having those conversations that would make you interesting, right, And I think it's being clear the type of people you want to attract and be able to position yourself as an
object of desire. And it's based on who you want to attract. And that's very very important the question that they've asked, because most of the time people define the people they want to attract, and then I always say, you have to become that what you're looking for, and if it means going to school in order to be able to attract a man or putting in this effort. And once people have to put in their efforts and
they realize how hard is it it is? Yeah, a lot of people back down and they'll be like, there's no men and I'm like, no, your type is an't there. It's just you're not willing to match that standard because we work at a frequency like attracts.
Like, yeah, if you're.
You're currently in the dating pool, you're going on dates and meeting new people, what are some of the things that you should be looking at some of the don'ts in terms of etiquette that you should be looking out for, So.
In terms of other people, I think one other thing is that I think the main thing for me, and it's quite important, is the temperament of a person. Every person early on is unstable, erratic, has tendencies to be aggressive. I think that's a big red flag, right, don't justify it. Don't justify it in terms of they're having a bad day and so forth. I think that is an issue.
I think when somebody comes with their problems very early in their relationship and you're constantly listening to their problems, it's either this person's going to burden you emotionally or they're going to ask you for many run like literally just run. The other rate flag you need to be aware of is you know, I always say, if you meet a guy and he's a father and he doesn't know the price of school is a run? Why why
don't you know the price of school fees? You've get kids, right, and what makes you think that if he's not showing up the manner he needs to show up for his kids, he's going to show up for your child like that? So it's also looking at the context to what extent is he would responds, you want somebody who can integrate into society and who is a respectable member of society right and life stage is important because a respectable member of society twenty five looks very different at forty five.
But those are the things.
It's about just taking a step back and people see the red flags, but they don't take a step back and say what does it mean? Because we're so fixated and trying to inter relationship that we actually don't take a step back. So for me, those are the other things that I think, you know, you need to be just need to ask yourself. The first one run and the other one is just ask yourself questions before your life.
Give those persons the benefits of a doubt. We're speaking to Doma Donzella.
She's a relationship coach and an author in this space, and she's helping us make sense of dating a kid. The guy actually who had sent us or WhatsApp about looking interesting come back and says he's actually a man.
Oh is it a guy? And he wants to know how to be interesting as a man.
Well, like, I think I still sit on the segments, right, So if he's a man and he's looking to date a certain kind of girl, I think you just need
to understand the segment that you date in. I think unfortunately, also because he's a guy, the whole idea of and from a cultural perspective, like and I'm gonna say in the context of South Africa, so South African woman love masculinity, right, And what makes you interesting as a guy is when I feel like I'm with somebody who can make me feel safe, who can make me feel special, but also just to be interesting as a person, to read up on things, to be able to have things that are
good conversation started.
I think from a male perspective.
I think it's the same thing from a female and a male, but I think from a male. Just be cognizant of the fact that musculinity is also is seen as attractive and your variation of musculinity will be appreciated in the market.
There's another one, A very good evening lady is they're in the studio on the issue of dating. In most conversations that I've listened to so far on different radio stations, mainly the conversation is about dating of the abled bodies. It's quite rare to hear a conversation about dating and the disabled community, the hoops that the disabled bodies have to go through, the challenges, the stigma, the list is in this. Would this be a topic that your ladies
in the studio would consider, would consider? Have I want you to comment on that, because I'd imagine it's a whole different ballgame.
Do you know it's the same as sexy same sex relationships?
Right?
Somebody would come and say, oh, you know, the conversation is always geared towards, you know, straight individuals, and most of the time how we gather dating data is through social commentary, So I think same sex relationships are a little bit easier. Most of my clients all are straight, right, but well, now and then I'll have the same sex relationship.
But in terms of social commentary, it's easier because they participate in social commentary, and straight people are always on TikTok going on about them jooler and I think you know, when you are outside the what do you call the mainstream groups, I think the best way to learn about your world is when you teach us about your world, right, because obviously you live in that world and you've been
immersed in that world. And the challenge that I'd like to give the disabled community is that please come on to mainstream social give us social commentary so that we can learn about you, because I think you know, most of the time, when you come from a context where you don't fully understand the challenges of people, you're very
sensitive to making grand statements about them. And I think it's through learning through them that I think, and I speak on behalf of probably a lot of dating culches is that the reason why they don't speak about those relationships is because they don't understand them well enough. In terms of the challenges that they are they're going through.
And only then when I think the challenges are widely understood, then can somebody be able to say, Okay, actually, this is my understanding of your challenges, and this is my views around that.
Yeah, so we want to hear more from you. Let's take a voice note.
I'm high if you're speaking loud. But you know what, I used to be that guy. I used to be that guy that would take a lady to high end, expensive kind of restaurants on first dates.
And that's such a standard. Man, that's such a standard. You can't go down after that. Got a mind?
I I want to see you save on my mind, save on my mind money.
Coach.
Wait, you know, basic, basic, very very basic. Uh go see that, jolly Roger.
If you want to have a dream, but nothing I end until I'm ready.
Yeah. So my mind with you, how you behave if you pass that my my test, that's it.
You said.
A problem with with that is that when he sees that you're okay with my mind, you will die with my mind.
I think the other thing we need to be cautious of. Let's not over engineer situations. Right, If you're not in my mind gap. Please don't take women into my mind, Like what are you trying to prove? Because that's not your space, right, But if your space is such that I don't know, you go to I don't know, like mid range coffee places, that's fine.
Yeah, the whole.
Principle is that you know the first date. Just keep it simple. You know, you don't need to go over and above. But please don't engineer in now situations where you're trying to taste a person or you think the person's true character is gonna come out.
And so people are very good at pretending it.
Like I could pretend I like my mind, but then next week, I want you to take me to Lake Coco.
Ask my husband. It's not technical so much of it. It's just it's it's you know, calculative. You know, No, I don't really like wamma, but now just to see if comdo will take what am I I'm gonna go?
I'm going to go there and and inconvenience myself.
And do you know why it's so technical and you know you have to think about every single step. Yeah, people are so afraid of being vulnerable. I think if everyone took the challenge, every single person took the challenge of saying, I'm when I allow myself to be vulnerable, I think they'll have a bit of experience. But because we're so afraid of being vulnerable, because sometimes we're not received with care or you know, if we're vulnerable, we're
being scammed. Then people now have to like put these parameters in place in order to protect themselves. All these technicalities is really especially like you know, the three month rule and everything. It's really to protect people themselves. But like, do we trust that we will receive people with care?
So I'm asking the person is like, oh, you know, why am ist dating me? Why must we play games? And so forth? And I'm like, how many guys have been vulnerable with you?
They came and they said I like you and so forth, and what and you still chased after the big bad boy and you ghosted them and so forth and whatever.
Why would they be vulnerable with you?
So the day we learn to receive each other with k that's when dating is going to improve.
But before then, we're going to play these games. Mhm.
I think we've got a Cola's up from Johannesburg. He also wants to make a contribution to this conversation, and you're saying women should be more feminine?
What do you mean by that? So what I think we should just sorry? Sorry, go ahead?
Sorry, am I own here?
Yes, you are on air?
Go ahead, Okay, No, okay, I just picked up boots and pieces. But uh, you know, on the point that you make about men being masculine, I like that. It's a very very powerful statement in that that's the way it should be. By the same token I say women must might not be feminist, it must be feminine. To be feminine is more powerful than being a feminist.
Yeah, I hear, Yeah, I mean being there's being a feminist make you any less feminine?
No, So what has happened with being a feminist is? You know, if you look at the feminist movement, and I'm just conscious of time, the tone in which the movement started, it was needed. You need an activist tone in order for the world to take note and to
take women's seriously and to act upon it. Right and these days in order for femininity to find because a lot of there's a lot of criticism around feminine, not femininity feminists, there's a lot of criticism around that in terms of does it have a place in today's world. And if you look at the essence of what it means to be a feminist, it's around just fighting for the prioritization of women's rights, like we're prioritizing all the
rights of other groups and whatever. But the tone in which I think it needs to be delivered these days, I think it's a little bit different. I think people are past the activism and so forth, and now when you come with that a graceive tone, you're seen as angry more than making a point. And I think, what is the world really from a feminist perspective is ready for?
Is a confident feminine, A woman who is about being feminine, happy about herself and so forth, prioritizes the rights of women and is confident enough to speak up in the world. And I think what he is saying and he can, I mean, I could be wrong, is that let's not confuse feminists with femininity, especially in the context of where
a feminist is from an angry tone. And I don't think there's anything wrong with being a feminist, but I do think that the tone in which the movement started was needed then, But right now, I think the world understands that it's important that women are included, that they participate in the economy and so forth, and how do we have a voice in such a way that we are taken seriously without being labeled angry? And I think for me, you know, there was big debates. There's Diary of the CEO.
There was.
A big debate around this whole feminist movement today is it's still relevant? And my conclusion was that there's nothing wrong with being feminist. But I don't think the tone is the tone that we need for the world that we live in. I think we passed that tone, and I think we need to just adopt a tone that is yes, assertive, but is rooted on working together and receiving each other with love.
We are coming to the end of our chat with DoD Gavatim. I don't say that. I hope that's compasses what you were trying to say. There sup in a minute to do. Let's summarize your thoughts on etiquette for both men and women.
If you're in the dating scene currently, what.
Should you be prioritizing that will make you come across as the best version of yourself?
You need to be at ease you're not auditioning for a job, You're actually trying to get to know the other person.
And yeah, you have fun.
It's meant to be fun, to be quite, have fun, be at ease, and allow things to evolve. And if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. It does not Just because somebody does not pick you doesn't diminish your value and you need to just walk away with that sense of pride.
Rakhari of the Nation, I want to say thank you so much, thank you for showing us and taking all these questions and comments. And I'm sure there'll be another conversation on this in the near future. That's don Senna. She's a relationship coach and she's also an author, the author of the Dating Playbook, So check that out.
Thank you so much. Before I let you go, How do people get in touch with you? So I go as the peaceful one on all social media