The messages teams sent in the 2025 NFL Draft, with Field Yates

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Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. The 2025 draft is in the books, and we are here to wrap up our analysis of that draft class. I do a show every year. I've written this piece in some form going all the way back to the ringer. I mean, it's probably been like a decade since I've done this. I've always enjoyed doing it. When we're going into the draft. Teams can tell you whatever they want about their plans, about their roster. There's a lot of...

Cloak and dagger stuff. There's a lot of subterfuge. After the draft happens, there's nowhere to hide. We know what teams think about themselves, about certain position groups, about certain talent levels, about areas they needed to address. And so each year, I always enjoy looking at the draft and trying to decipher the messages that teams sent us because of their draft process. Last year, we did that show with Field Yates from ESPN, who now is a full-time draft analyst there.

doing the draft more than he was previously, I guess I would say. Field wears a ton of hats at ESPN. He's a very talented man. But Field joined us for that show last year, and he's back to do it again with us this year. It's a show I look forward to every year. I've been really looking forward to doing this again with him. Let's get to that discussion, that exercise, what messages teams sent us in the 2025 draft with Phil Yates right now.

Some shows that you do that you like so much that you just have to run them back the next year. And so last year after the 2024 draft, the first show we did out of that weekend. was me and Field Yates from ESPN discussing the messages that teams sent to us

with their draft classes. I always like doing this because before the draft, teams can lie. They can lie pretty easily. After the draft, it's a little bit harder. Their intentions are clear. So here to help me run through the same exercise we did this time last year. It is Field Yates from ESPN. So good to have you back, buddy. How are you feeling after a very long weekend?

Feeling great. You know, it's funny. I was joking with you over text. You were like, man, you must be white from a handful of days in Green Bay. And I responded. I came back to two children. So I actually, when I go to Green Bay or anywhere that's not my location in Connecticut, I actually feel like I get some rest. So despite the nonstop activity for five days and the incredibly unhealthy eating habits that I adopted during the draft.

We are feeling good right now. So it really was an awesome week. It always is. But the city of Green Bay, which I had not, believe it or not, previously been to. This was my first experience. So I got the Wisconsin charm and really appreciated the host city. The people were...

Like it was almost disarming how kind they all were, but it was sincere as well. So I had a blast out there and I love the draft. I was trying to figure out what was going on as the draft was taking place. I feel much better about where things. actually went after studying what picks were made by which team when for the past, let's call it 48 hours. Yeah, the trades are what's hard to keep track of in real time.

Like where the picks went, what teams picked up. Like we'll talk about a couple of teams here where. Part of their strategy and part of the message they sent, I think, was them picking up more picks to kind of atone for what had happened in previous years. In real time, it's hard to keep track of all of that stuff. But after you get a couple of days to kind of sit back and think about it.

it all becomes a little bit clearer. How many cheese curds did you eat? Well, the problem with cheese curds, they're available everywhere, right? Oh yeah, of course. I noted this, I tweeted this because I was flying home, and the cheese carts was perhaps the not most noteworthy part of this story, but I had a 7 o'clock flight back to Connecticut.

On Sunday morning, it was connecting through Detroit or something. And for those that haven't been to Repay Airport, it's extremely small, small enough that they have one intercom system that can access the entire airport. So the individual, the woman who was patrolling the intercom that morning at 514 a.m. announced. As a heads up, our ice cream machine is now working over at Gate B2. Cheese curds are also available. So as if I hadn't stuffed my face with enough cheese curds during the week.

There were just a couple more on the way out. I just love Green Bay Airport. Like the offerings include not just your typical stuff. Right. You have a newsstand where you can get books and candy and magazines and and whatever stuff to drink on the way out. And there's a little. cafe that has breakfast sandwiches and bagels and muffins. But at that same cafe, you can buy spotted cow 12 packs to walk away with.

You can buy blocks of cheese to walk away with. As a matter of fact one of my colleagues noted to me that he actually brought a block of cheese home for his kids for the week ahead.

I have never been to Green Bay Airport. I've been to Green Bay probably 20 times, 25 times. But obviously, I always drive just because it's close to home. But that sounds right. It's funny because people talk about how... they see someone drinking like a beer or having a cocktail at 6 a.m. and that's concerning to them. Based on my personal history, I understand how that can happen with someone.

If you're eating a block of cheese or you're ordering ice cream at 515 in the morning, that actually might be a little bit more concerning to me than like you starting off your day in Green Bay with a Miller High Life at 6 a.m.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering, like, when the announcement was finished, whether there was going to be a mad dash of people. Because, again, with one terminal, you can see most of the activity. If they felt the need to say something, then somebody was clearly upset that it wasn't operating at 5.15 in the morning. Last thing on Green Bay Airport, just to give a testament or sort of to reconfirm just how.

incredibly kind and trusting these people are. When I first got to the airport, this cafe was open, which is where I went and grabbed my coffee and breakfast sandwich to start the day. But I wanted to go back and get another bottle of water for the flight ahead. And there was a newsstand directly across from the cafe. And I noticed that it was much quieter over there. So I walked over there thinking I could get out.

quicker with little line. And then I got to the counter to pay for the water bottle that I was buying. And it said, please make sure that you pay across the way at the cafe. Thinking to myself like, Not like most people, I mean, I'm sure most people do pay for it, but I don't know, like airports can bring across a unique cross section of people. Like, is it possible that some are not obeying the honor system and just walking away with what would otherwise be a $4?

and 50 cent bottle of water? It's possible. I guess not in Green Bay, Wisconsin, which I deeply appreciate. The last thing I want to mention before we get into the football side of this. Coming out of the weekend, everyone does winners and losers from the draft, right? Like you and I, we have to feed the content beast. We've done this for long enough. It's a worthwhile exercise, easy to sell. I get it.

As I've read these winners and losers posts, The one thing that hasn't been included often enough in the winner's side of things It's the hair game that Field Yates brought to the draft in 2025. It was a topic of conversation during our live show. Only good things. I just want you to know. We're sitting there being like, man, he is absolutely bringing it right now. The fact that you managed to get it to this point right in time for the draft is just fantastic work by you.

Well, so I may have screwed up then because I've had a hat on this morning since I got out of the shower. Now I feel, and so it's not totally as a, it's not in peak form right now. So maybe I'll take the hat off. I see these nice red marks, YouTube, do your thing, have some fun with me in the comment sections. But after that, those kind words, I'm not turning back. I'm going.

hatless with red marks for the rest of the show, if that's how you feel about the hair. Yeah, I haven't cut it since Christmas. As you know, as you can attest, the minute I got married, I became a 49% stakeholder in all decisions, which means that my wife. Whatever she wants, she wants, right? So she's been a big fan of it to the point that she actually said to me while she was watching the draft, she texted me and she goes, just as a heads up,

The length of your hair right now is the shortest it will ever be again. Wow. So like we're not, people keep asking me like, hey, draft's over. Is it time to clean it up? No, like we're just getting started as far as the boss, Chapin Yates, is concerned. I'm really impressed by that. I have a similar set of conversations with my wife about my hair.

I, she hates when I shave my face. Like when I, when I trim my beard too low, she's like, I'm not a fan of that. So that's part of the reason I don't ever shave. I wouldn't anyway. Cause I just haven't shaved my face since like 2005, but the hair. The thing I've always wanted to do, at least recently, because I'm just tired of it, part of me just wants to buzz it off. And she just is not having it. She's like, absolutely not.

So it's always a conversation. And for the most part, the way that I want to do things, she's on board with it. So there's not a lot of tension there. But the fact that she likes it that long, man, that's going to be a lot of upkeep for you for the next like 50 years of your life. I know, man. A lot of people keep asking, like, what do you do? And I'm like, well.

I learned on the internet that apparently you buy this sea salt spray. So I have this massive and I'm talking like gigantic. I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of describing it with my hands right now. Bottle of sea salt spray in my bathroom. I think it'll like. I think it's going to last me for about a year, but I also don't know what it's like to upkeep hair that's even longer than this current version.

I might actually, I don't ever use Amazon subscriptions where it just sends every X number of weeks. I might have my first subscription lined up if this sea salt spray goes faster than I am currently budgeting for it to go. Now I'm so much more invested in the journey now than I would have been otherwise, knowing that that's her stance on it. Now I'm just going to be watching you on TV, just seeing what the progress looks like. It's nothing if not a talking point. That much I've learned.

Let's dig into this. You wanted to start, again, talking about the messages that teams sent during the draft. And I always like doing it this way because... You can talk about the quality of a draft right afterwards, but... Even if people I respect, you, Dane, the quality of a draft based on how you guys see it is often going to be based on whatever your pre-draft rankings were. If there's somebody that you liked in the top 75 and he goes 120, if you're going to like what that team did.

So there's always a little bit of subjectivity there. I think with an exercise like this, it's a little bit easier to just say, I think this is kind of clearly what they're trying to tell us with the players that they drafted. I've been doing this sort of thing, either in print or on podcasts for probably 10-ish years, and I always have enjoyed doing it. So the first team that you wanted to mention...

is a team with a general manager that subtly might have sent some messages with the draft that they had and then not so subtly sent some messages with a radio spot that he had yesterday. Yeah, Bill's GM, Brandon Bean, was fiery on Monday morning when he was calling into the local WGR show. And he basically, you know, he was ticked off that it sounds like, and I didn't hear the preceding audio prior to Bean's.

comments, but it sounds like for those that don't know exactly how radio interviews work, a lot of times the producer will call you a minute or two before the segment's supposed to start because they want to have a buffer in case you don't pick up. They don't want to call you the second you're expected to be on the air in case you don't pick up your phone, whatever. So Bean must have been on there for a couple of minutes just waiting, you know, probably either.

it sounds like the end of a prior segment sometimes it's a commercial break whatever it might have been but he caught audio from people and basically they're essentially giving the bills some flack for not drafting a wide receiver and Bean drew a parallel to 2018 when people were ripping him for trading up to draft Josh Allen, bypassing Josh Rosen, who won a few picks later in the infamous 2018 draft class of quarterbacks, five in the first round.

two of which have worked out better than probably anybody could have imagined in Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. I'd say so. Yep. A couple others, you know, still figuring it out. And then Sam Darnold has kind of resurrected himself. Same with Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen. I don't know what Josh is doing right now, but it's not playing in the NFL. But anyways.

he was saying like, hey, listen, our defense was the issue. He noted last year we scored at least 30 points in eight straight games. He noted that they scored the most. total points of any team in the NFL last year, including the Philadelphia Eagles, who of course won the Super Bowl this past season.

Bean is basically saying, hey, defense was the issue very clearly, which is, you know, he's doing it very matter-of-factly. I'm sure the defense didn't love hearing that, but perhaps they were inspired by it, meaning the defensive players. But the team was certainly putting its money where its mouth is because their first five picks. In the NFL draft, we're all defensive players. It started with Max Hairston, the corner out of Kentucky.

At 30th overall, continued into day two with TJ Sanders and Landon Jackson, a defensive tackle, an edge rusher. They actually drafted Hairston's Kentucky teammate, Dan Walker, in the fourth round. So they hit that defensive front. just that defense in general very very hard and

One of the things about you're talking about how we rank these guys, I call it vertically, right? It's one to, you know, in the case of Dane, it's like, you know, one to 3,042. For me, it's a more like, you know, I published 200. It's more like. I think my final number of players that I graded that stayed in the draft was like 358 or something.

Not quite on the level of the beast, but still, I do look at these things vertically. Whereas for NFL teams, I encourage people to think of it more horizontally, right? Max Harrison at 30 with our cornerback needs as opposed to somebody else and how he fits within our system as opposed to, and I'm just using these two names because they were the next two players off the board.

Jahad Campbell to the Philadelphia Eagles, and Josh Simmons to the Kansas City Chiefs at 31 and 32. And if you look back at Hairston's film, we all know about the 40-time fastest player in the draft, 4-2-8. excellent excellent speed great ball skills as well he led the sec in interceptions two years ago but to me the most important factor here um

82.2% of his cover snaps in college were zoned. And that's what Buffalo does, right? They are going to lean on the Sean McDormand principles that have existed for basically 20 years. season in and season out. So you need these instinctive zone corners that can make plays on balls when they're thrown their way. And Harrison really fits that. So yeah, maybe the off is what I have considered it inconceivable for Buffalo to draft a wide receiver.

No, but I really felt like going into the draft, like corner was the most clear and obvious need as a starter opposite of Christian Benford. And it feels like mission accomplished through the first five picks all being defense. I'm 100% with you on this, and I'm sure that the fact that he was doing a radio interview on Monday morning after the draft, after what the weekend had been like is...

kudos to Brandon being like, I had to turn it down every single media request available to me at that point. I'm sure there's a little bit of that, right? You're just fried from the weekend. And then you hear that and you kind of go off a little bit. But looking at the roster corner to me was clearly the number one need on the entire team coming into the draft. They didn't have,

Another outside corner on the roster that they could like legitimately play. It was Dane Jackson and Trey White were the only two guys. So the way that they approach free agency. And White is back for the vibes.

Hopefully you can play, but if nothing else, it's like the vibes are very high now because there's a beloved player coming back. And Dane Jackson too, right? You're just bringing back two guys that you know, and those are purely depth pieces. By not bringing back Russell Douglas, that was to me the number one need they had coming in. And even if we go beyond that a little bit and you go second, third, fourth round, look at the edge room in the moment that they drafted Landon Jackson.

So you need a third edge rusher into 2026 and beyond. And Landon Jackson, I think, very much fits the style of player they like. He's a long, linear power. I think he totally makes sense as part of that rotation. But even beyond that. just the feel of the team by the end of last season.

Obviously, Benford gets hurt in the playoff game, so that's why the coverage is such an abomination. But when they had to dig into their cornerback depth in that game against Kansas City, it was an absolute nightmare. That's why Kyrie Ilyam is not on the team anymore. But beyond that, they needed to affect the quarterback better.

a number two edge rusher potentially. I think Ed Oliver is a good player. But if you're not going to have like a true ace as part of that group, you got to keep taking shots.

to make sure that you have a deep enough rotation where you're consistently affecting the quarterback over the course of the game. And I also think on the receiver side of it, I know he's not like a sexy addition, but if you look at what Josh Palmer gives them from a skillset perspective compared with the other players that are in that room right now, the combination of Josh Palmer... Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, and the tight ends combined with James Cook.

I actually like what that looks like with an overall group. Yeah, there's no true number one receiver as part of that, but the complexion of the receiver room. makes a lot of sense. I think Josh Palmer gives them, to an extent, what they thought they were going to get when Amari Cooper was traded there last year. And it's at a...

you know, maybe not as big of a name, but it's at a reasonable price. So I don't mind how they went about it at all. And I think they're telling you, we think our defense was the problem, not what was happening on offense. I also understand Sports Talk Radio. I also understand a city that has two professional franchises. Feels like on the list of GMs that deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Brandon Bean's pretty close to the podium too, right? So like, you know, none of them are perfect. They're all subject to criticism, but I feel like Bean probably more than your typical GM has earned the right to say like, just trust my process here. Let's stick with some AFC North teams still looking to break through, and that's the Pittsburgh Steelers. They're my first one.

I think the message they sent is this time quarterback desperation is only going to push us so far. Right. And that was that was kind of the interesting wrinkle. to the Steelers quarterback question heading into this draft is that we're only a couple years removed from them needing a quarterback. in a draft class where there weren't any obvious quarterbacks. And they made the play for Kenny Pickett in the 20s, and they're still paying for it.

And so I was wondering coming into this, like, is Omar Khan going to sit there and say, why are we going to do this again? Why are we going to take a shot on a guy who's probably not worth it in this range of the draft just because we have to do it? Isn't it easier to trade? whatever mid-round pick we'd have to for Kirk Cousins or sign Aaron Rodgers to

whatever moderate deal we're going to. And then if we want to take a swing next year, we can't. I always thought that made the most sense as this class was concerned. And that's what they told us. I mean, they didn't draft a quarterback until the sixth round. I'm sure that Steelers fans are feeling a little bit itchy and uneasy based on just the missing spot on the depth chart right now. If you look at it, it's Mason Rudolph and not much else.

But I'm not surprised that the Steelers weren't willing to overextend themselves again because they're still dealing with the fall of the last time a draft looked like this and they felt the need to pull the trigger. My colleague, Matt Miller, noted this or something to this effect on Twitter. So forgive me, Matt, if I'm a little bit off on the exact point you were trying to make. But I think we've learned something in the past.

couple of drafts maybe even few drafts which is that Clear and obvious starters will go very high at quarterback. Not clear, not obvious starters. You look at the gap once again, it was obviously in the first 40 picks. We had three quarterbacks, Tyler Shuck being the third. Then we had Jalen Milrow late.

And Milrow might be like the lone exception to the statement that Matt sort of made. And he fits into that category of still being a mid-round pick because he's this extremely unique athlete who's still a long ways away. but like should or standards wait until 144 in case you miss it that happened uh will howard going in the sixth round uh quinn ewers going in the seventh round so

I started to sense some agony and angst from Steelers fans in the middle rounds. Like, what are we doing here? And it's like. If the team wasn't bullish on the player enough to take him at 21 and then not again at 83, Let's just wait. And they did so until the sixth round, I think. And we're just one Schefter tweet away from this becoming reality. I think the signs tell us that like Aaron Rodgers, despite.

You know, the peculiar path he's taken to eventually land this deal in Pittsburgh feels like borderline fait accompli, which maybe I'll rue saying that in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers deciding on his future. But if he does.

As much as I think the Steelers ceiling is still lower than it needs to be to satisfy the fan base, I actually think the Aaron Rodgers plus Derek Harmon slash no other burned draft capital is a better path to the... forcing the issue with a Jackson Dart at 21 or Shador Sanders at some point in the draft and feeling like, hey, that'll be enough.

And we're not going to go right back down the Kenny Pickett path again. The Jackson Dart path is the Kenny Pickett path, right? I mean, even if they're different players, in terms of like what you're trying to do, overdrafting a guy where you're having to squint a little bit at that point in the draft, it's a very similar outcome. And beyond that, how many, when did you start doing this like full time? Well, this is my second year in the full time seat, but I've been doing the draft for.

uh in a smaller role for probably seven or eight years at ESPN now and you and I both started like around the same time right I mean like it's been about my first NFL draft yeah and that's 2012 was my first year covering the league full-time so now we're at like 13-ish years How many quarterbacks picked outside? It was getting old as shit, man. How many quarterbacks picked outside of the top two rounds?

have become long-term starters in the NFL since 2012 when you started doing this. You can cut them on one hand. Yeah. Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott. I'm sure we're missing Brock Purdy would be one now, but yeah, it's, it's a very, very small number. Yeah. Russell Wilson. Yep. That's really it. Yeah. It's a short list. It doesn't happen, right? And so this idea of, oh man, we have to try to get a quarterback. We have to try to get a quarterback.

it's likely not going to be something that's fruitful at the end of the road for you. You're probably going to find a guy that at best is going to be a long-term backup. Every once in a while it happens, but even the guys that have been successful,

Dak stepped into a phenomenal situation in Dallas when he started. Like that was the best offensive line in football. It was the best running game in football. He was allowed to come along at a really good pace. Russell Wilson was the exact same situation in Seattle. Brock Purdy gets dropped into. The Death Star. I mean, in his first year as a starter.

These situations where even these guys succeed are very specific. And so I know if you're a team without a clear path as starting quarterback, you want your team to take a chance on a guy, but the chances that, and that's why you can wait. That's why after the third round, it doesn't really matter anymore when we take this guy because the hit rate is probably going to be the same. We might as well try to find defensive line depth like the Steelers did or whatever a little bit later in the draft.

It's just tough. History tells you that you're probably not going to find one of those guys outside of the first round, let alone outside of the top. Two rounds. Man. Yeah. If they don't go early, it's a problem. And I liked the process, generally speaking, for the Giants. In this draft class, I was a huge fan of Albuquerque Carter, but there's been a lot of very, very positive commentary on the Giants weekend. And I think I agree with it to a degree.

But if they were, if this is like such a coup to land Jackson Dart at 25. Shouldn't you have just have taken him at three? What is the message you are sending if, hey, we would actually never consider him at three, but we'll take him at 25. Doesn't that implicitly tell us?

We think the kid has a chance to become a decent to pretty good quarterback, but we don't think he can become an excellent quarterback. Because if you thought he could become an excellent quarterback, you're probably bypassing Abdul Carter and taking a quarterback at number three overall.

Something I like about that. I don't disagree with that at all. I think that is a move. Desperation may be a little bit strong of a word, but that is a move of increased urgency is what I would say, right? We need to do this. I think that's why it happens.

vein, I just kind of understand it. So I don't even put a value judgment on it. It's like they were going to do it somewhere along the way. So I'd rather have Abdul Carter in the quarterback than just the quarterback. So that's probably where I land. And then the other part of it where I just don't. minded at all, if you're going to do this.

this is the fine path for me is what they gave up to do it. The fact that they didn't really have to give up. It's like, okay, if all in, if we're going to get the pass rusher at three, get a quarterback and only have to give up a couple of mid round picks in order to do it. This to me is a good outcome for the Giants, knowing they were probably going to have to overreach for a quarterback at some point in the process. Yeah, my takeaway was it was reasonable cost of doing business.

but I'm not totally certain they've changed their bottom line outlook at quarterback. I don't know that they have the answer long-term on their roster right now, even after the addition of Jackson Dart. It's a bet on Brian David, right? Yep. I know I belabored this and I apologize for that, but here I am talking about something that was not on the script here. Yeah. Listen, we got a lot of stuff that we had to gloss over in real time and things that I'm still trying to like.

like spend a little more time on. So whenever you want to do a little offshoot here, you feel free to do so. Your next team out in Las Vegas, first year regimes, always a fun. Always fun teams to pay attention to in an exercise like this because we don't know. We don't know what John Spitek and Pete Carroll want to be. So outside of free agency where, you know, they were pretty limited in their actions outside of trading for Geno Smith.

This is one of the first set of decisions we get to see from those decision makers in Las Vegas. So what is the message you think the Raiders sent with their draft this weekend? They believe they can develop players. And Ashton Gentry is probably, people are saying, well, they took the guy who's as ready-made as any prospect in the entire draft. Let's look beyond the first day.

So day two, they open up the proceedings with pick 37 and they end up making a couple of trades back, which gives them a bunch of swings. Later on in round two, they take Jack Besh, one of my favorite prospects. I had him inside my top 50 from TCU. So I really liked that pick.

But if you go further down the board, Late in round two and then also late in round three, it took Darian Porter, a corner from Iowa State, six foot three, 200 pounds, was a former wide receiver who basically has one year as a starting cornerback. on his resume, but 6'2", or 6'3", excuse me, 200 pounds with a 4'3", 40, and obviously very good ball skills because he was a wide receiver.

Charles Grant, offensive tackle out of William & Mary. Not many William & Mary products come into the NFL, and when they do, they probably need some seasoning. That is definitely the case with Charles Grant. He is huge. It's got long arms, 10 plus inch hands, has a big frame, but just really needs to fill it out. And then you go to day three and two picks apart. They took Tommy Malotte. And Cam Miller from Montana State.

Those two guys actually faced off in the FCS national championship game and they combined for like a thousand yards of total offense. I love that. In college, they were both excellent dual threat quarterbacks. Malott is trying to follow, and this has become sort of the low-hanging fruit, but it's the Edelman Path, the Julian Edelman Path college quarterback who can be something of a Swiss Army knife. He did some stuff pre-draft.

return work wide receiver work etc um so ran well in the 40 i don't think he's quite as sudden as edelman was which is That's a difficult bar to clear given how quick Edelman was back in the day. The Raiders are betting on him becoming something. And then Cam Miller, who we do a sleeper show every year for quarterbacks specifically, and he was my pick, undersized but extremely accurate.

And I know this is one of those things that when people hear it, they probably feel like it's a bit of a football cliche. But those two guys fit into the category of. ultimate competitors. So I liked the idea of Pete Carroll, who I don't know if he actually has this tattoo, but he might as well have compete tattooed somewhere on his body, compete and develop. They're putting a lot of trust into their coaching staff. I'm pretty sure the slogan slandered all over the...

V-Mac in Seattle for the last like 10 years, it says always compete. I literally think that's what like the number one slogan in that building. So not at all surprised. And he's trying to bring the same sort of vibes over here. We talked about the Jack Besh pick. Yeah. For like 12 minutes. Oh, did you? And I just, I just think that. If it's for this reason, when you look at their pass catching group and just the skill position group in general,

It's bizarre and not in a bad way. It's just like Jack Besch plus Brock Bowers plus Ashton Gentee plus Jacoby Myers. It's just like, this is weird, but I'm kind of interested in seeing what it looks like. with Chip Kelly. So that's when I appreciate it. I'm totally with you on the others. I like them just saying we need a ton of bites here based on what the roster looks like.

offensive line depth, not surprising. This is, I guess one of the lessons I'm learning here is I'm way more interested in the Raiders than I thought I was going to be, but I can't wait to see how the offensive line shakes out. And I think one of the reasons. that I'm paying so close of attention to it is now Ashton Gentry's back there. So the offensive line dictates one of the coolest picks in the draft. And so now you look at what they have.

Caleb Rogers is probably going to play guard in the NFL after playing tackle in college. Dylan Graham is a free agent after this year. So, you know, how does that all shake out? Is he maybe a 2025 bet for you? Charles Grant, same sort of deal.

I'll be curious to see what the right tackle battle looks like, because I thought DJ Glaze had some nice flashes last year as a rookie, especially for a third round pick. But Colt Miller is a free agent after the year. So it just seems like they're putting in a lot of.

Competition and a lot of contingencies into how they're building that offensive line group. And should we be the least bit surprised that Pete Carroll's taken swings on high upside corners at this point? And again, another position group where.

I think Raiders corner was quietly like one of the biggest needs coming into this draft period for any team. And the fact that they waited till the third round after slow playing it to such a degree in free agency and moving on from Jack Jones, all that stuff.

That was a little bit surprising, but the fact that this was the sort of bet they made at the end of that process, I don't think should have snuck up on anybody. Yep. Fair enough. I agree on that. All right. Before we move on and get some more of these, let's take a quick break. All right. My next one here is the Arizona Cardinals, a team we talked a lot about during our live draft shows. I mean, it's one of my favorite drafts.

that any team had just based on what they got in the first couple rounds. But I also just like the message they've spent or they've sent with essentially their entire offseason. The Cardinals last year, outside of the Minnesota Vikings, I think you can make a point, were the weirdest defense in the NFL in terms of how they wanted to play and all the shit that they were throwing against the wall. And I think the message that...

Monty Austin Ford, Jonathan Gannon, Nick Rollis have sent us with how they've approached this offseason is. We can be weird on defense. We would just prefer not to be, prefer not to be quite as weird. So going out and doing what they did, I mean, you look at it. They added like six front seven players, six front players to the defense in the last two months.

Calais Campbell, Dalvin Tomlinson, Josh Sweat, and then they come back in the draft with Walter Nolan in the first round, Jordan Burch in the third round, and then they get Cody Simon, the linebacker from Ohio State in the fourth round.

was a very productive pass rusher at Ohio State. I think fits what they want to do. Those linebackers are a threat to blitz at any point. So I'm sure we'll see some of the weirdness, but I think going out and getting so many... large building blocks literally and figuratively for that defensive line and just try to make that group remake that group

I think that they are telling us we want to have a little bit more talent on that side of the ball because we've tried to skate by on like weird schematic quirks and that's only going to get us so far. You mentioned earlier how we like when we're doing our draft assessment, sometimes it's, you know, which team landed pick 70, you know, my player 73 on my board at pick 125 or something. And that is true. But I also really like when teams are kind of like right in line with guys on my board.

after let's call it pick 50 because the variance really, really grows. beyond top 50 or so. And Cody Simon, I think I had like 112 and they took him like 113 or whatever the number was. We were like two or three spots apart. He was one of my favorite prospects. in the draft relative to where I expected him to go. An elite communicator. He kind of connected everything Ohio State did last year. He dug them out of the doldrums after that Oregon game, which really was.

like an inflection point for what would be. Listen, we're all thinking about it now is this dominant national championship game season. But it was on the brinks there for a moment. They just feel like they have so much more convention to their defense, as you described. We didn't even mention, by the way, because I know you were talking about the front, but like. Unless Will Johnson's knee is about to spontaneously combust, getting him at 47 or 48, whenever it was, 46 to 48 range.

Like to me, it's just way too good of business to ignore. I know the elite speed is not there, but I really didn't think it impacted his film over the past two and a half seasons. I'm considering this a half season this past year. He was in the green room. I know the green room is not indicative of where guys are going to go, but the NFL is gauging player value from teams as they make these invitations.

I felt I truly felt for Will, who had to wait through the entirety of the first round, but such a reasonable value, even if it doesn't work out, like if he three years from now is just not healthy enough to play like. That sucks. But if he comes close to what his capacity is, we could be talking about a legit like five to eight year starting corner who you got at 47 at a position that just this offseason had a guy sign a deal with.

new money average of $30 million per year. Like to me, just way too solid of business for Arizona to not get a big thumbs up on the Will Johnson pick. If they had taken him at 16, would you have blinked? I had him 13 in my final mock going to Miami and I was like, you know, if he doesn't go there, maybe it was going to be either Arizona at 16 or Tampa at 19.

I definitely, you know, we all had heard some of the speculation on the knee in the pre-draft process. But I talked to a handful of different people. The temperature on it was different. Some were concerned and others say, hey, in a different draft class, it might bother me. But, you know, like how many blue chip guys are there in the 2025 draft class?

And as a result of that, it's hard to ding a guy too much if we're pretty comfortable, pretty comfortable, maybe not totally comfortable, but pretty comfortable with where it's at. One of the things I've just become really attuned to as I think about defensive front specifically, and this kind of brings me back to the point we're making about Buffalo. When you watch a team, I want to be able to feel that group over the course of the game.

I want to be able to feel their impact. And sometimes that's splashy play. Sometimes that's sex. Sometimes that's TFLs. But also it's quieter stuff than that. Like you feel the pocket condensing. You just feel how uncomfortable the quarterback is over the course of the game. And as I look at units. that the way they existed on March 1st and the way that they exist now.

I think you can make a really serious argument that no team will feel different, more different on one side of the ball heading into 2025 than they felt at the end of 2024 than the Arizona Cardinals defense based on the players that they added. And there's some speculation, right? You have to build in some projection with some of these guys, but like.

Walter Nolan landing with Calais Campbell and Dalvin Tomlinson, just little tiny things about the entire complexion of that group. It's just easy for me to get excited. There were times where you're talking about feeling. I agree with that. There were also times where I felt like Arizona down the stretch punched a bit above their weight defensively. And that's a good thing.

But you don't want to be at a weight where you have to punch above it to be a good defense, if that makes sense too, right? Exactly. Especially if you're like trying to move beyond. The Cardinals have been a curiosity for the last couple of years. They've been the sort of team that people like me get excited about because they're doing weird shit. Let's move beyond a curiosity to a team that can actually make some noise.

And on defense, I think they've done that. The caveat, though, is they did nothing on offense the whole offseason. Like if I'm drew petzing right now, I'm at least a little bit frustrated at the way that the front office approached this spring, because you look at it, their biggest, an offensive investment.

They didn't draft an offensive player essentially the entire draft until the sixth round. They drafted Hayden Connor, who's an interior offensive lineman in the sixth round. That's the first thing they did in the draft. Their biggest offensive investment this offseason was Jacoby Percet for $6.3 million a year.

So the guy that you're paying to not play is the biggest investment. Yes. Other than that, the second biggest one is Kelvin Beachum on a one-year $4 million deal swing tackle contract. Those are the investments the Cardinals made on offense. I was a big fan of their draft a year ago. So I think that if you got Monty Austin for it in like a quiet moment, maybe there is a chance that those like their feeling is we're going to get.

better return from some of our guys last year they played some like you know we saw a little bit of trey benson last year but james connor is just like man of steel up until that late season injury. We're going to get more out of him and Isaiah Adams and a couple of the other guys that we drafted last year, by the way, also Darius Robinson in the first round, who's going to play a much more pronounced role in that defensive front.

Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's like you got your guys already. Now it's up to you to develop them. But it's always a risk there that you're going to see different results from that side of the ball. Good to see your next one here, a team you are very familiar with. The New England Patriots had what has been pretty much a universally celebrated draft. It's a very fun draft, the pieces that they had. What do you think is the message that the Patriots sent with what they did this weekend?

Yeah, the message is Drake May is really talented, but no quarterback can do it on his own. So let's invest in him and continue to invest in him. The Patriots had a relatively passive start to free agency on the offensive side of the ball. Now, things look a little bit and feel a bit different after the signing of Stefan Diggs, which was... at least a few weeks into free agency. And that was a splash, assuming he's ready early on in the season.

But the Patriots did not mess around. The first four picks, which were all on days one and two, were all on offense. They were all players inside my top 100. which I get it. There's only 102 total selections, but I think they actually might've been four guys inside my top like 88. So solid value, I thought across the board. You know, this this is going to be a blend of guys that impact the game right away, which will be obviously Will Campbell.

There's a chance Jared Wilson, who only is a one-year starter at Georgia, is more of a 2026 investment versus a 2025 investment. But that's OK. And on top of that, as you know, watching the Patriots last year. Every yard, every point that they scored last year was earned. It was grinded out. Every once in a while, you just need a player who can do something on his own. that takes a tremendous weight off of the shoulders of everybody else.

And Travion Henderson is that kind of running back. He was, other than Ashton Gentry, probably the most explosive back in this entire class. Ohio State did a masterful job last year, making him... at his best or putting him at his best because they didn't ride him for 25 carries a game. The Patriots, I think, need to be and can be judicious about how they use him this year because they have Ramondre Stevenson to be the thunder to hate Henderson's lightning.

But every once in a while, you just want to be able to push the easy button on offense. And the Patriots, I think, have a much more credible chance to do that with their investments on days one and two in the draft. There's no doubt about that. It's really easy to get behind what they did. Even if Jerry Wilson is a 2026 bet, they moved down to get him. And I believe they picked up like a third round pick next year as part of that process.

And so now you kind of get two picks in 2026. If you're pushing him to next year, the Garrett Bradbury contract is legitimately a, if we had to start him today, we could sort of contract and it allows you a lot of flexibility. the only position where they didn't do that was left tackle but i don't mind how they played it right if you're sitting at

If you're the Texans, right? If you're the Texans coming into this draft, you need to sign Cam Robinson because there are a million different ways the draft could go. And you have no idea if one of those tackles will be there. If you're the Patriots front office, you kind of know how the first three picks are going to go. You're going to be in a spot where you can just draft a guy and plug him in to be your day one starter. Why waste $10 million in free agency on a stopgap tackle?

So I was fine with that. Right. And then everything else, I love Kyle Williams. I just think that you talk about easy buttons, like he's going to be open. You can get him the ball in space. He's a good run after catch player. You can design screens for him. So just. all the different elements that they've added here. Even if we're going to say that Jared Wilson takes a red shirt year, I really like it. It's just, it's similar to the Cardinals where I look at what they did. It's like,

I guess I'm excited to watch the Patriots offense this year. Like I'm actually really looking forward to this in a way that I certainly wasn't a week ago. So that's about all I can say. And that's probably the biggest compliment I can give them based on what they did. Fair on that. we'll see what happens with that offense in general like josh mcdaniel's

coming in after doing his like, you know, we're going to hear a lot about it this offseason. I'm sure we're going to hear a lot about his college tour and all the things he tried to pick up and trying to evolve and things like that. So I'll be curious even structurally what it looks like. Tell you what, here's a sneaky dynamic that the incomparable Mike Reese pointed out.

To me and online as well at ESPN.com, the Patriots coach, you know, for many of the Belichick disciples, they've kind of always worked with. other Belichick disciples. Yeah. It's basically Mike Vrabel's staff or staffs from prior stops. Right. It's Todd Downing and Ashton Grant and these coaches that are on the Patriots staffs now.

Those aren't Josh McDaniels guys, right? Those are guys that Mike Vrabel brought in with Mike, with Josh McDaniels kind of over the top. I'm not saying this is like, I'm stating this as a matter of fact. I'm not opining on it. It's just kind of an interesting dynamic that is not typical within the NFL.

Yeah. And even like Terrell Williams coming to be their defensive coordinator, like he's never done it before. There's a lot of questions, not in a bad way. I just think I'm curious to see what the final product looks like. So structurally, what are we trying to be on both sides of the ball? And now the inputs player wise on offense make me even more interested in what that final answer looks like.

They actually have a credible chance. That's the most important part. They're back on track. It'll take some time, but they're back on track. There's no doubt about that. They walked into last season with the worst supporting cast from a talent perspective in the NFL, full stop. And so it's nice to be on the other side of that. My next one here, this is a very simple one.

The Niners on defense, based on what they did in this draft, run defenses back, baby. Like the Niners are tired of not being a physical football team anymore. They finished in the bottom 10 and run defense success rate last year. And you could just feel. the lack of oomph with that group over the last couple of years. And I think this is obviously a product of atrophy.

from the Trey Lance trade, like one of the spots you would find difference makers along the defensive line is in the first round. And this is a team that has not been shy about drafting guys at those spots over the years. And so.

You just connect the dots very easily. We were missing multiple first round picks. We were missing multiple players along the defensive line because we don't have a lot of financial wiggle room. And now you're starting to feel the impact of that. And this is the first year in a while where they've had a full stable of picks. And they were not shy about saying, this is where we're going to invest again. They draft Michael Williams in the first round.

Yeah, I'm intrigued by his pass rush upside. I think there are splashes. You see it. He's a very young player, but his biggest selling point right now is he's a decent run defender from day one. Like truly you drop them in, you feel the length. And that's just not something they've had over the last couple of years. And then they double dip with some big, big boys at defensive tackle in the second and fourth round with Alfred Collins and CJ West.

And so I get it where it's like, this is the area of the roster that needed the most attention. I still would have liked them to have seen to have done something on the offensive line that was more aggressive than what they've done, because I feel like that's a group where.

You're just starting to see the holes a little bit, but them really doubling down on making sure we're going to be a big physical football team up front in a way we haven't been over the last couple of years is a path that I think the Niners kind of needed to take this offseason.

I agree with everything you said. I'm only going to make one point just for those that have sat there throughout the pre-draft process and wondered, how is this guy, Micah Williams, with 14 career sacks, not this supercharged athlete like Shamar Stewart, going to be a top 11 pick? I think a lot of it can be attributed to where he played and how they played him. The most frequent alignment for Michael Williams in 2024 was a 4-I for those.

who are uninitiated with defensive alignments. That means he was on the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle, which is typically not a sweet spot for rushing the passer. mostly a position where you see guys who are doing work for somebody else, right? It's Hey, can I lock out my arms and allow the linebackers behind me to find their way to the football? He's not pinning his ears back and rushing from a wide nine.

It was kind of conducive to exactly the sort of stat line that he had as opposed to eight or 10 sack seasons. On top of that, Georgia had a million guys who played a lot of snaps for them on defense. Several of them were drafted over the weekend because they're Georgia and they always have a lot of defensive players drafted.

There were some moments with him where you see like the, just the, the arsenal moves that could develop over time. And that's why, again, like he lands with Texas. You put them on and you're like, that's right. That's right. And then, and there's, I get the second Texas game. He had like little cross chop. double like a double two hand swipe and just it was just like one of those moments where it's just like oh there it is

Like that he has that potentially in his bag and he's so young. And then the thing that to me was the biggest light bulb moment, maybe of the whole draft process when I was learning about players a little bit later was I watched him and I was like, I wish he was more violent.

like he's a physical run defender but as a pass rusher i wish he was more violent like you see him coming around on stunts and like i want him to blow people up with a head start and then dane was like oh he was hurt the whole year he had a shoulder injury the whole year and i'm sitting there like

All right. That makes perfect sense. And so you start connecting the dots a little bit and you can really convince yourself that this is the type of bet that's worth making in the top 12 for a team like the Niners that desperately needs a player like this. Totally. Yep.

You went with the AFC East last time. Let's stick in the AFC East. I love this one because I think this is one of the clearest messages sent by any team. What do you think the Miami Dolphins told you over the weekend? We weren't tough and we better get tough. The Dolphins. obviously have a somewhat of a floor or they have when they're healthy, right? They made the playoffs under Mike McDaniel. I believe they won 9-8 and then 10-7 in his first two years as the head coach, along with Tua.

When they play good teams, they don't win. And when they play physical teams, they don't win. And this draft, which by the way, included just two picks in the first four rounds was let's get a whole lot tougher. Kenneth Grant was to me, I mean, he was,

At that bottom of the first round of my big board, I think it was 31st overall when he finished. So a relative reach, but I tell, we talked about it earlier, horizontal versus vertical stacking, right? If you're the Dolphins and you're like, if we don't get fricking tougher, we have no chance this year. then I'm not going to find too many defensive tackles who are better run stuffers than Kenneth Grant.

in this glass. He's 331 pounds of massive human. On top of that, Jonas Savania, their second round pick, 37th overall, I believe it was. Yeah, that was the trade they made with the Raiders.

is if you see him up close and personal, like I remember seeing him at the senior bowl, which is my first in-person exposure. And I was like, those calves are the size of volleyball. He is huge. He's a huge, huge man who played guard right tackle and left tackle in college he'll end up playing guard i believe for the dolphins then you go to later rounds and Fifth round pick, Jordan Phillips. I know Dane talked, Dane was early on Jordan, nailed that one.

Uh, no surprise again. Um, and he is this violent, you were talking about Micah Williams and needed to be more violent against the run. He should go watch other Walter Nolan, Walter Nolan or Jordan Phillips tape. Super low to the ground. He's a background high school wrestler. And it's one of those guys where like it really, really shows up. Super low. He played a ton of nose tackle snaps specifically for Maryland. He never had a sack in his college career, but he played.

Just a touch for Tennessee, his first season in college. Transferred, goes to Maryland, plays for two seasons. Go back and watch the game against Iowa this past season. They have a center. Logan James will be drafted pretty high next year. Those two went back and forth for like. just pure 60 minutes of run offense and run defense blitz. The Dolphins needed to get a whole lot tougher. And I think they got a step closer to that goal with the draft this weekend.

I'm totally with you on this. My only quibble is that they gave up a lot to move up. It's an aggressive trade. And for a team that... For other teams, right, I think that paying a premium to make sure we're getting the play style we want and the evolution we need, I get that.

Miami has so many holes and they're a team that's devoid of cost control talent because of what they've done with draft picks over the last few years. I just didn't know if they were in a spot to be giving away mid-round picks based on the current state of the roster. That does just happen though, doesn't it?

It does. We thought that this was going to happen. There's some urgency there and there's some urgency to be different. And you watch the Dolphins and then the other team I would connect to this is the Vikings. where we have a run game that was a little bit hyper-specific.

and was a little bit too rigid. We weren't flexible enough on what we could do offensively. We're going to change that. So the Dolphins go out not only and get 7A in the second round, they get James Daniels in the second round. So now you're adding a little bit more size and physicality to your offensive line at two different spots, the same way that the Vikings did with all three of their interior offensive line spots.

It's almost that bit of enlightenment that the Rams had to come to after the 2022 season. I think that we're starting to see other teams. pick up on stuff like that it's like yeah we like to have our run game structured this way we want to be able to do a few more things we need to change the personnel in order to do that and so i think you're seeing that with the dolphins a little bit

And the Kenneth Graham point is a great one. I like Derek Harmon better. I just think if I were drafting an interior defense tackle, it would have been Harmon. But if you want this skill set specifically, I can understand getting there with Kenneth Grant because we talk about it. I could list them off. Patriots left tackle. I think Raiders corner and the other one coming into this draft, that was to me probably the biggest need. One of the top five in the entire league was.

any defensive tackle next to Zach Sealer. Anyone. They didn't have any. It was Benito Jones. And so that needed to happen. And the fact that they landed on Kenneth Grant as that guy for exactly the reason that you said. give me the 330 pound dude, because that's the type of presence we need on this defense. Shouldn't shock anybody that that was the final decision for Miami. All right, we got a few more of these, but before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.

I'm going to talk about a team that hasn't been talked about very much, despite the fact that they had the number one pick in the draft. It seems like we kind of glazed over that over the course of the weekend. The message I think the Titans sent is we know we screwed up over the last couple of years and we're sorry.

On a bunch of different levels, I think this is true, right? The quarterback thing, we screwed up. We misjudged the quarterback position over the last couple of years. We're going to fix that. That was obvious. We knew they were going to do that. but even some of the other things that they did. So you look back over the last two years, the Titans haven't had a third round pick in either of the last two drafts.

Last year and then coming into this year's draft, the third round pick they gave up in 2024 was part of the Will Levis trade. And then coming into this year's draft, they didn't have a fourth or third round pick because they traded for Legereus Sneed last year. And among all the things that the Titans did last offseason, I think a lot of them were misguided. the amount of money they spent on free agents, but it was positional resources. Like, do we need a third round pick? And-

A contract extension for a luxurious need based on where we currently are as a team? Probably not. And so I think the over-aggressiveness that we saw from them over the last couple of years and them giving away picks. You saw them atone for that a little bit, like them moving back in the second round and then picking up a third round pick as part of that and then getting an additional fourth round pick somewhere along the way.

I think this was, we know that we need to be responsible based on where we are in the process right now. And we're going to do that. And I think the positions they hit as part of that. Totally tracks, right? They needed an edge rusher. That was another huge need. I mean, Draymond Jones is fine, but going out and getting Oladejo from UCLA, I think that I always knew they were going to go edge rusher in the second round somewhere. And then picking up additional picks.

getting Kevin Winston in the third round, who hopefully can be an answer for you if Amani Hooker moves on in free agency. They needed to bolster the depth there. But what they did in the fourth round, With DK from Florida, Gunnar Helm from Texas, and Ayamanor from Stanford, what I love about that is they're such different players. And if you look at their pass catching group, we need some way to help the quarterback we just drafted first overall.

Maybe we don't know the best path to that based on the resources we have. We're just going to try to volume shoot here. We're going to give him a bunch of different skill sets and somehow, some way. Hopefully on the other side with Calvin Ridley, this gives us a workable group of receivers. Also with Tyler Lockett in the mix now. Yeah, downfield instincts were really a strength of Cam Ward's game at Miami. One of the biggest areas of progression for him.

for him was throwing the ball down the field. And doing so not just accurately, but doing so at the right time. The way that that was shown through was he had 12 touchdowns and zero picks on throws of 20 plus air yards last season at Miami. Like he was money.

I talk about this often. He has this unique ability to escape pressure and do some of the Mahomes magic stuff, even if not at the Mahomes level. It's good to be able to get out of pressure, but you know, I mean... I don't want to make this implicating Justin Fields, but Justin has this ability to get out of pressure, but then sometimes get out of pressure only to make a bad decision at the end of it, right?

Cam got out of pressure and then made a good decision so frequently at the end of those plays last year at Miami. Now, I'm not ignoring some of the early game, more on-time decision-making throws that Cam... Did not execute last year. He had to get himself out of the holes that he dug often last year at Miami. And that was part of the brilliance of him was that sort of fourth quarter clutch production factor that Cam brought to the table.

But as he learns to play more on time, more within structure, also understanding that when he does those special uncoachable things where a defense does all the things right, except for bring the quarterback down. Being able to make great decisions is the trait that takes that mobility to the next level.

Yeah. And I love Gunnar Helm as part of that overall calculus, right? Sure. It's like, as I'm looking for somebody to find late in the down, somebody that just can uncover three, four seconds into the play underneath, like he's the sort of player that could potentially do that for you. And so I just. And they need that, right? Like Chica Conquo is the exact opposite of that at tight end. And so...

It's an offense that I'll be excited to watch. I'll be excited to see what Brian Callahan can do with that group. It's been a cliche over the last few days that Cam Moore is the least talked about number one pick that we've had in forever, and that's for obvious reasons. I really enjoyed studying him. He's one of those guys that, again, I come to it late and I sent a text to Derek Lassen. The first night I watched him, I was like, he's weird, but he's good. And Derek's thing is,

He wants quarterbacks to be honorable players, like make honorable choices. And that's exactly what Cam Ward is. And you mentioned the late in the down stuff. To me, it's just a product of him just being. He's got that steady heartbeat, man. Like no matter what's happening, the game slows down for him in those moments. Even when he's like drifting in the pocket.

It was funny that with the top two quarterbacks in this draft or what we thought were the top two quarterbacks in this draft, there was both a little bit of drifting from each of them with Shadour. You saw it as a product of. discomfort or panic where he would start drifting with cam it was one of those things where there was like a calm when he would drift in the pocket and his

the rotational athlete that he is. It's why there was a little bit of Jordan Love in his game to me where even if he's drifting, his ability to be accurate while drifting because of what he looks like rotationally and his ability to get back on balance. even when it looks like he's kind of...

scattered or uncomfortable or scrambling in the pocket, he's not. He's actually in a place where he's making the play he wants to make, even if it looks like he's getting forced off of his spot. I think that's a really impressive trait to have as a quarterback.

Yeah, this is sort of non-football, but I think it ties into it. I was in the green room on Thursday night with Laura Rutledge. We were holding down there for the ABC broadcast and all the players that were invited obviously were there as well. Was remarkably stoic, like leading up to the pick once he was picked. I mean, this kid was, he had a very, it was like.

Just the whole thing, like he was icy. He was just sort of there understanding what was happening, but not. He's just very even keeled. I was super impressed. There's a lot of things to be impressed by with Cam Ward, but the poise he showed. It almost seems understated when you see him. He's just sort of...

He's just kind of there. But then you think about it on the football field and you're like, that's what you want from a quarterback in pressure cooker moments is that he's not rattled. So that part really impressed me about Cam Ward. Obviously, there was a lot of discussion about quarterback interviews as part of this process. One side of that is that every team I talked to that interviewed Cam Ward, the final result and the feedback was essentially, he's just made of the right stuff.

Like a guy that's going to walk into your building and be the presence you need a quarterback to be. He is that sort of player. And again, we didn't get to a lot of that over the last couple months. But as you think about what Cam Ward is as. a gamble or a prospect for the Tennessee Titans. I think that side of it is really, really important to come back to. Agreed on that. So my last team.

I finally have to go to the NFC. You had all NFC teams. I didn't notice that. I know. I don't know why I went that direction. But the hometown Packers, and again, thanks to Green Bay for showing out this past week. The Packers last season... We're tied for the highest percentage of snaps in zone coverage in the entire NFL, 70.2% to be precise, according to my buddy, the great Mike Clay's charting.

If anybody knows the background of Jeff Halfley, he is not a coach that wants to sit back in zone and just... you know, be patient. He wants to attack. And so my question coming into the draft was, do the Packers feel as though their corner deficiency is the bigger issue or is their pass rush deficiency?

Truth be told, they didn't attack either of them early in the process for the draft. They ended up going offense, offense, offense with their first three picks, two receivers, an offensive tackle, an Anthony Belton, Cadillac Belton. But they eventually... Ended up drafting two pass rushers on day three.

And if memory serves, and I probably should have this buttoned up, I don't think they end up taking a single corner at all in the draft. And it tells you something. It's like Michael Robinson in the seventh round. Apologies to Micah. I got to be tidier than that. I'm looking at it right now is the only reason I know.

But they took Baron Sorrell and Colin Oliver from Texas and Oklahoma State in the fourth and fifth round, both pass rushers. And it reminded me of where I think most people would tell you they land in this debate. A good pass rush can cover up for an average secondary more than a great secondary can cover up for an average pass rush, right?

The Packers did sign Nate Hobbs in free agency this offseason, but I would have argued they could have used multiple corners. They have an excellent safety duo. That being said, this team, I think, feels as though we've got to be able to rush. And if we do. we've got a chance to right some of the wrongs from last year and play the way that Jeff Halfley wants to play defense. Their defensive line and the improvements that will come in their defensive line.

in year two of a new system. And now with a defensive line coach, to me, will drive the success of the Packers defense over the next year, right? So they came in last year and look at all the investments. I mean, you look at the depth chart right now, I'm staring at it. Rashawn Gary, first round pick. Top of market contract. Kenny Clark, first round pick, top of market contract. Devontae Wyatt, first round pick. Lucas Van Ness, first round pick. And you saw...

Brian Gunkoos alluded to this a little bit when he was talking to reporters before the draft. I think it was in owners meetings where he kind of said, We kind of did it, right? Like we've kind of spent the resources there that we can afford to spend. Now it's just a matter of getting more out of that group.

He followed through on that. This approach in the draft is an indication that that's what they believe is the only path forward for them among that group. It's like we just need to get better play out of those guys. It's not about adding new players. We'll see how that works out. The old play better adjustment, right? Which is a thing, by the way. We should acknowledge that sometimes the best answer is the one that's sitting right beneath you.

Well, when you've got a guy making 25 million a year on one side and you spent a top 15 pick on the other guy at the same spot, it's like, can we really do this again? I get that. I get saying we need to try everything else. change out all the other component parts to try to get the most out of this group. The corner room specifically and the DB room. I'm so interested to see how it shakes out, right? Because Jair is still there.

And is he going to get traded? Is he not going to get traded? How does that change the calculus? How much does Nate Hobbs want to play inside versus outside? Keyshawn Nixon kind of survived outside last year better than you thought he was going to. So my assumption here and they've.

Not surprising because these two position groups, I think, share a little bit of DNA. The way they approach their offensive line and their secondary is essentially, we're going to get a bunch of guys and we're going to see how it shakes out.

And I'm very curious on the defensive side of the ball to see how it shakes out. Because last year, I don't know if they thought Javon Bullard was going to be their nickel coming into the year. And then eventually they kind of realized this is the best version of the defense.

You signed a nickel corner in free agency. And so I just, I don't totally get the vision. And I think this is going to be something that is just going to be played out in training camp and we'll see what the final result is. Yeah, I think people assume that teams have like super specific plans all the time for every single player. Whereas, and I think of this with the Travis Hunter lens, like. Obviously the Jaguars have some idea in mind of what they're going to do with him, right?

I think the biggest thing that I learned when I was at Colorado Pro Day, talking to all the people that were there and asking them what they planned on doing with Travis Hunter or what they would plan on doing if they had them was like, okay, like I probably lean towards. let's say wide receiver, some said cornerback, but like-

A lot of it's going to be, let's get the guy in the room, let's get him on the field, see what works, see how it goes, and then we'll add or subtract to his plate depending on how things are going. So I think it's a fair point that you make. Some of it, like we don't need the solution. We need the ingredients.

before we can figure out how it's going to look. Especially at those two position groups because they're weak link systems, right? And so you're trying to figure out how can we build a group that has the strongest weak link? And what does that outcome look like? And I think the Packers have consistently approached it that way. I'm always wary of coaches that tell you exactly how it's going to go.

Right. And like on April 25th or even on August 1st, where it's like, oh yeah, this is what this group is going to look like. It's like, you don't know. You don't know. And so the coaches that tell me they don't know, I actually have a little bit more respect for because that's typically how it goes in this league.

The Carolina Panthers, I think, sent an interesting message in this draft, and that's, yeah, we know the defense was terrible, but offense and the quarterback are still king in this league. And so them doing what they did in the first two rounds where they go out and first three rounds, excuse me. Prince Lee was such a good prospect and such a fun player. I'd assume that they like traded up for him in the second round, but he was a third round pick.

So at eighth overall, they go get Tedrow McMillan. And you look at the roster, and even with the talent dearth on defense, the receiver group still needed a guy like this.

And the skill set is different than what Leguette brings to the table. Thielen's going to be a free agent after the year. Like a real... ace to build your passing game around I still think was probably a need for this team coming in and so seeing them take a swing for somebody like McMillan where they did shouldn't be surprising because this is a group I think for the last two years I've been impressed with this and I'm curious what you think

I think there's been a real level of intentionality to how they've built. each of the last two offseas. Last offseason, they knew the defense was terrible. They knew it. And they just kind of said, we're going to take our medicine this year defensively because we need to get an answer on the quarterback. We need to build something for him that allows him to just function.

And that's what they did with the offensive line spending. And I do think that at the end of the day, they succeeded in doing that. And I think this offseason, it was we know we need to keep doing what we're doing on offense at least a little bit and then take a couple swings on pass rushers. And so to see them pair Scowerton with. Umami Allen, I think is how it is. Hearing having those two guys their skill sets to me are so complimentary and so different I just like it when you combine it with

Now they have Tashaun Wharton. They have Bobby Brown. They have Pat Jones. They didn't go out and take huge, massive swings on anybody on the defensive line. But it's just a group that's going to feel and play a lot different this year than it did last year. while also not letting the talent on offense atrophy and understanding you still need to keep growing on that side of the ball to help your young, hopefully ascending quarterback.

Yeah, totally. And I think he is ascending. I do feel pretty good about, you know, I think what we saw last year was largely real. You know, McMillan was an interesting one throughout the process because As you know, sometimes the tenor of where a player is going to go is determined by what those of us in the media are saying. Right. And if.

You know, all of a sudden, Dane and Mal and others, DJ and whoever else is doing it are talking about, yeah, you know, we might see this guy go somewhere. But McMillan was one of those guys who elicited. opinions all over the board, right? I sort of, I kind of felt like throughout the process, we started to overthink Macmillan a little bit because of the speed while ignoring that there's so much good that led to

All the other, like all the production, I mean, back to back seasons with 1300 plus receiving yards. And I'm. I would like all these guys to go as high as possible, but for a player that during the fall when I'm watching the tape, I'm thinking to myself, this guy looks every bit the Bart of a legit top 10 pick.

And then we get to the pre-draft process and it's like, dang, is he going to be one of those guys that just slides and slides and slides? Seeing players like that still go really high, you're happy for them because it's a good reminder that like the tape still is the foundation of.

the evaluation for NFL teams. It's not merely what happens at the combine or in the case of some players, what doesn't happen at the combine because they opt out of participating in these things. So, listen, none of us are ever going to be totally right on all of these players, you know, but you just... In this class particular, when there were so few,

That's it to me. You could find a wart on all of these guys, truly. You name a player not named Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter, and we can just play that game. We could do a whole podcast on that. You want to do the work? Fine, we can do it. It was an interesting class. And I always have so much respect for all the guys that do it. Dane, again, Mel, DJ, highest level these guys are operating at. My colleagues, Matt and Jordan.

at ESPN, like some absolute stop, like total rock stars doing it, man. It is this draft class was putting everybody to the test. So shout out to all those guys who crush it for. 12 months a year getting ready for that weekend. And this one felt as unpredictable as you could ever imagine.

It's a great framing for the McMillan pick and his just role within the process. Because when I watched him, I liked him. I didn't love him. You know, like they're even beyond the speed concerns. Like I just, I said this when we talked about it on the first time, I wish you had 20% more dogging him. I just wish there was a little bit more toughness, but...

you watch him play. And if we're going to have like a six, five finesse receiver, he does it very well. He does attack the ball. He comes back to the ball really well. He's so incredibly smooth. So even if you had a couple of things about him, it's like, I'm going to ding him for this. I'm going to ding him for that.

Well, in this class, that still makes him a top 10 prospect. Like I still, even like Kenneth Grant went 13th. There are elements of Kenneth Grant's game that give me way more pause than in Ted Rowe and McMillan's game. And especially at a position where. Teams need this guy. And Dane was steadfast. He said, if he's on the board of 12 for Dallas, he's getting taken at 12. Like he has not fallen past that.

And so to see him go eighth overall, I don't think should be that surprising. So we'll see what happens and how he fits into just the overall complexion of that offense. But, you know, there are a lot of teams here that we mentioned where these were not. interesting teams for most of last season right the Raiders

I think the Cardinals are interesting to me, but to the general public, maybe not. The Titans, the Panthers. I think that's what the draft is about. I think it's about kind of injecting a little bit of excitement, a little bit of outside interest into teams that... are trying to get back into the conversation and think this weekend specifically was a pretty good one for some of those teams maybe on the fringes trying to get themselves back into the discussion.

The draft is the ultimate conduit to hope, right? Like all 32 have some reason to feel optimistic about their franchise going forward after the weekend that was. All right, buddy. The fact that you're willing to do this two days after you just spent an entire weekend on TV, I always deeply appreciate that. I hope you can get a little bit of rest. I hope you have a little bit of time here. You certainly deserve it. So thank you very much for taking the time out and we'll do it again very soon.

I was going to say, let's start the clock now, 365 days until we do it after the Pittsburgh draft next year. I can't wait. We'll be in Pittsburgh next year. So hopefully I'll see you there. And I'm sure I'll see you somewhere along the way here. Guys, that's all we got. This is our last draft review show that we're going to do. So this officially puts the 2025 draft coverage. to bed. Derek and I will be back tomorrow.

We'll be talking about the biggest questions we still have roster-wise now that the draft is over. sitting there looking at the Bears' hole at running back outside of DeAndre Swift and just imagining when the Nick Chubb news is going to come. So there's going to be a lot of those, I think, that we still have to address over the next 24 hours or so.

That is what Derek and I are going to be doing tomorrow. So peace be on the lookout for that. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. This athletic podcast is brought to you by FedEx. FedEx is an official sponsor of the Champions League. As a trusted global logistics service provider for businesses around the world,

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