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show's recap of rounds two and three of the NFL Draft 2025. I am Robert Mays. Joining me for this, first of all, it is our wonderful draft expert at The Athletic, Dane Brugler. Dane. We made it through the first two nights of the draft, 102 picks. You look spry. I'm starting to wear down a little bit over here. Fake it till you make it right here. No, it's three rounds in the books. We've got a lot of players that...
we thought could go here that maybe are still on the board, which is really interesting. We've had a lot of interesting fits tonight. A lot of teams I think have kind of shown us their cards in terms of their vision. You know, we always say like you follow the money, what they do in free agency, what they do in the draft really tells us a lot in terms of their plan for their team. And some of that's really coming into a more clear of a picture, which is interesting.
Also joining me tonight, it is my co-host here at The Athletic Football Show, Derek Lassen. How are you feeling over there? You made it. This is your first one of these. You powered through. I'm very impressed. Hanging on. You know, I got a little bit of the taste of doing the live show at a big event like this when we did some of the Super Bowl stuff, but that was a much shorter...
Time span. Doing two days back-to-back of, what, four, four and a half hours? We've been sitting here for five hours already. It's a different beast. So I'm hanging on. But yeah, definitely a fun learning experience. We're going to run through some categories tonight just to kind of recap not only what happened tonight but over the first two days of the draft.
We're going to start with the best bet presented by BetMGM. This is really just saying your favorite pick of night two. What really stood out to you? Yeah, and a lot of different ways you can go because I think there were a lot of fits that I really liked. Best fit we're doing later. Okay, well, that's my favorite pick of the night. I'd probably go Siobhan Ravel, going to the Cowboys. Like we said when he was drafted,
He entered the year at number 12 overall on my board in August. You just don't find 6'2 corners, 200 pounds that have 4'3 speed, have those ball skills. He had a discount sticker on him because of the ACL. And so we thought maybe second round, he falls into the third. Cowboys get a just tremendous value with where they got him. And you're really both their picks with Ezraku in the second and then Siobhan Ravel in the third. Tremendous value with both those picks, which is a, you know.
A little bit different than what the fans thought in the first round where they thought they didn't get value with Tyler Booker, which is really interesting. But Ravel specifically really liked what they did at that point in the draft. almost, I mean, the Cowboys are a good drafting team, right? They've done a very good job at finding talent. Will McClay. Yeah, Will McClay does a phenomenal job there. There's a reason that
We never hear his name. He never gets interviewed for other jobs because he's well compensated and he's allowed to do things. Jerry knows what they have. He knows exactly what he has. but this draft specifically just these guys that maybe fell a little bit further than we thought it almost feels like a type of draft that we would attribute to the ravens like tyler booker as raku and ravelle specifically like
If you just threw Ravens colors on those guys, you would imagine that Baltimore having a similar sort of draft. But that really is the type of drafting team the Cowboys have been over the last 10 years or so. I think we've just kind of forgotten it a little bit because the last two classes have been a little bit more. Yeah.
Mozzie Smith is sitting right there. I mean, they had their misses recently. But most of the... you know eight ish classes before that were phenomenal they were a really good consistent 10 plus win team for a long time because they consistently reloaded
and then found star players they wanted to pay. Just look at the other corners on this roster. I mean, Diggs was a second-round pick. Deron Bland was a non-combine guy on day three. Like, they have found value at this position outside the first round. Derek, your best bet, your favorite pick from the second and third rounds tonight.
You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to shill for one of my quarterbacks and just the way that they built around him. Dylan Gabriel. Yeah, of course, Dylan Gabriel. No, for me, it was actually, I really loved the idea of Travion Henderson on the Patriots. I said it right before they make the pick. I was like, they need pop on this offense somewhere. In terms of my favorite guys who were going to give it to him, it was going to be Trevion Henderson. And I love what Ramon J. Stevenson is.
as a brawler and stuff like that. And that's kind of what you're always going to need to pair Henderson with anyway. So I just kind of love them getting that pop in the backfield. I think it's going to give... May, a guy who can throw the ball to a little bit, but also Henderson's a good pass protector. There's just a lot of reasons for me to love this pick. I like their whole draft. so far. Will Campbell, Travion Henderson.
Kyle Williams in the third round. Jared Wilson as their other third round pick. Those are four guys that had a lot of fans among NFL media in the process. We're jumping the gun on Favorite Hall. All right. We'll save it then. My favorite pick of today, I think it's Will Johnson going to the Cardinals. Even with all the questions, and there's a reason he fell as far as we did, and I think too often we do this, right? It's guys that we had seen mocked in the top 10 at one point in the process.
when they go in the middle of the second round, we think, oh, what a great value. But for the Cardinals specifically, The way that their cornerback room is built, again, Sean Murphy Bunting just being just a guy out there, you could easily replace somebody like that. You have Max Melton from last year. Garrett Williams is a promising player. You have Buda Baker. They've done so much up front.
I just think a guy with Johnson's skill set specifically as a zone corner and the rest of the makeup of that defense, if that comes together on the back end, combined with what they've done on the front end in both free agency and the draft. This goes from being a defense that all we said last year was, eh, they're weird, but they don't have any talent, to eh, maybe they might be weird and pretty darn good if some of these guys hit.
It feels like a makeover. Yeah, it really does. Yes, and at every level, you know, we're seeing with... I was going to make some sort of like queer eye for the Cardinal. Queer Eye for the desert team or something like that. It's 1030. We've been sitting here for five hours, but I'm not quick with the jokes, but that is what it feels like. It feels like they've been remade. Yeah, and Monty Austin Ford doing his best impression there. I mean, in every level of the defensive line.
you think what they did in the secondary like we mentioned with uh with will johnson it It's something that they definitely needed, especially after going offense early the last two years under Monte as GM, really leaning into defense with this draft. It's exactly what they needed.
I think we all really like the directions they went with each pick. And even outside of all the additions, obviously, again, I'm on board with some of the picks that they made. Obviously, Will Johnson getting some firepower at corner makes sense. Some of what they did in free agency.
But then also Darius Robinson and BJ Ojalary are coming back from injury next year. So it's like, obviously, maybe they're not going to be great. We don't know. But if they're at least better than what had to play in place of them last year, it's like... Okay, both the floor and the ceiling have a potential to be better this year. It's funny that they've done nothing offensively. It's really just been defense. And it's not surprising based on what that unit looks like.
If they can remake that defense and we can be talking about like a difference making unit and the offense continues to take small steps forward. Could be an interesting team in the NFC. The biggest... addition they made on offense this offseason was probably Jacoby Brissett. Yeah.
I mean, that's really all they've done. And you know what? It's portrait petting. You're just sitting there like, all right, I guess it's Evan Brown again. Right. Which is fine. But like, that's what they've done along the offensive line specifically over the last few years. It's fine until it's not.
Yeah, I think they brought in some competition, but not a clear upgrade there. So it's interesting they've leaned so much into defense, but it also, I don't see anyone saying it was the wrong way to go. Jonathan Gannon finally getting a little bit of help over there with Nick Riles.
Presented by BetMGM. This is just your favorite haul of the first two days, Dane. So we can expand it a little bit. We had a little bit of a spoiler situation earlier. I think we know where you're going here. Yeah, I really like what the Steelers did, but it was only two picks. Sure. bit of a you know i'm not going to go that direction because the the volume wasn't there but the patriots with their four picks going of course will campbell left tackle in the first round and then coming back today
Derek already mentioned Travion Henderson, the juice he brings to the backfield, just a more explosive option than what they have on the roster. Then they come back with Kyle Williams, the receiver who, yes, undersized. but gives you speed inside, outside. You can do different things with him. And then they come back in the 90s and get Jared Wilson at center, who will compete immediately for that center job. And he might be a center only.
He wasn't for everybody, but I think he's going to be a starter for a long time in this league. I really like what the... What the Patriots did, addressing the offense with four picks, and in my opinion, finding four starters who will be long-term pieces to what they're trying to build towards.
That would have been my answer. I mean, they took a bunch of guys that I just really, really like. You don't have another one? Come on now. No, I do. I do. I'm saying that would have been my first answer. My other one is actually, surprisingly, I really liked what the Browns did. And it's funny, I didn't love... taking Mason Graham at five. I'm probably slightly lower on that than some others, but getting Carson Schlesinger at the top of the second round was awesome. Quinshawn Jenkins is...
Both a good player and also the type of back that they needed. The fit. And just a great fit. And then Harold Fannin, I think, is a great, great bet in the third round. So, like, I just really like that. They've got a little bit more of the pieces they needed on offense to be the team that they needed to be. And they bring in Carson Schlesinger, who I think can be...
A lot of what they got out of JOK. And then again, you know, you take Dylan Gabriel in the back end of the third. I talked myself into that actually being a better pick than I would have literally a month ago. So I kind of like it.
I like the Cardinals' whole draft beyond Will Johnson. They're definitely in that conversation for me. You know who I like what they did? Because I think the pieces all fit together. I like what Carolina has done. Tedrow and McMillan in the first round. So you drop that skill set into the offense.
We talked a little bit about it during the show. Nick Scowarton and Princely Omemi-Ellen, those guys are very complimentary. And this is a team that just needs difference makers on defense, period, but especially on the edge. And I always like... Those sorts of pairings, Derek, where you have one guy who's just more of a power player, pocket pusher, run defender, and then Princely is truly a bendy DPR type guy.
Adding those two skill sets that I think really play well off of each other into the mix along that defensive line combined with McMillan in the first round. I get it. That's what I'd say. I get what Carolina is trying to do with those three picks. And almost just like, again, I mentioned it on the original live show.
the risk assessment with the two i think is funny whereas scowerton is like okay we just need a guy who's going to be something for us a guy who can give us a little bit of something and then they're like What if we got a little bit crazy, a little bit more fun with our other edge pick and a guy who could be really explosive? So I even like the approach to it, let alone just the players. And especially in their 3-4 scheme, I think it fits what they want to be on defense both.
schematically but then also they just they needed Because I don't think either of these guys are going to be pro bowlers necessarily, but they're going to come in and be productive. Maybe not in terms of double-digit sacks, but they're going to be productive and give you quality snaps.
And by loading up on these guys and have a rotation, you're going to keep it fresh. Quality is a great word. And that is not something the Panthers defense had last year. It was the least talented defense in professional football. It was bad. And they knew it.
They knew it coming into the year. And their best player was hurt immediately. And that was even with the best player healthy. So even with Derek Brown healthy, I think they knew they were making a deal last year with themselves. We're going to go super, super hard on offense.
We're going to see what we have in the quarterback. And we're just going to kind of hang on to our hats on defense. Now, I think they're trying to correct that a little bit in a way that makes sense. Can I add one more team? You sure can. We can add three more teams if you want to. The New York Jets. getting Armand Membu, Mason Taylor, and Azaria Thomas. I loved all of those players. Membu is awesome, and you don't even have to do the...
oh, is he going to play left tackle for us and switch? No, he's obviously a right tackle for that team. Mason Taylor is just to set your watch to it, 600-yard receiving tight end that I think they're really going to like. And then Thomas. We already mentioned all the Carlton Davis jokes with Aaron Glenn and that style of player. I just think...
Everything they did makes so much sense for getting guys that can be foundational pieces for the way that they want to play. In my seven-round mock two weeks ago, I had... Armand Membu in the first, Mason Taylor in the second. I didn't have Thomas in the third. That would have been cool. But they went with the blueprint that made the most sense in terms of the value and the positions they really needed to hit.
And then to go offense-offense and come back with a player like Thomas in the third just fits Aaron Glenn perfectly. That's a good shout to what the Jets have done. Can I add one more team? Oh, yeah. I think O'Marrion Hampton is kind of the engine for that offensive running back. I really like the fit with Trey Harris.
And Ladd McConkie at receiver, I think that's a complimentary group. And they needed a guy like Jamari Caldwell. Interior defensive line was a big, big need for this team. And so just another draft that when you see it start to unfold, it's like, yeah, this makes sense. I can understand them attacking it this way. And even though I think with the Bengals,
Like some questionable, you know, Shamar Stewart, we'll see how it works out. The night pick was a little bit okay. But to come back with Fairchild, that has me coming back towards the Bengals. That was going to be my best fit. I absolutely love the old Fairchild going to Bengals. All right. If you're watching on YouTube, we're going to keep on rolling. If you're listening to this on the podcast, we're going to take a quick break.
Let's get to the other side of the coin here. Dane, your least favorite pick of the second and third rounds is what? I know this is hard for you. I'm going to make you do it. Yeah, I mean, I'm such a positive guy. Right, exactly. I mean, like... The Lions trading up to get Tesla, a player who is more of an idea than a fully formed player. Look, I'm all for taking swings. And this is a swing. This is a gamble if you are the Lions. And look, this might...
be a home run when we look back at this two, three years from now. It might absolutely work out. I just didn't think they had to trade up that far into the third to get him. Maybe they had better intel that there was another team that really liked him. But the Lions have also been one of those teams under, you know, Holmes and Campbell that they just don't care what anybody else thinks.
about their board, how they value players, where they want to draft them. And so I give them all the credit in the world for being bold and drafting, you know, staying, sticking to their board. That one, it just, that surprised me. And I personally didn't love it.
Actually, you might agree with it a little bit. I really didn't love the Luther Burden pick. He was going to be my biggest head scratcher when we got to that. So at least favorite, I think confusing. I'm trying not to put a value judgment on it because I'm trying to preserve my emotional well-being. But it is a confusing selection. actually it is confusing that's part of why i don't like it but i also just again i know i'm much lower on burden than a lot of other people but i just
Burton was a player I really struggled with just in terms of you get hands on him. He wasn't my favorite player. And then it was kind of a weird fit, so I didn't love that. The other one I thought was a little bit that I didn't love was Demetrius Knight to the Bengals. Like, obviously they needed defensive guys, but I think the reach that they made for that position for him at pick 49, not my favorite.
Lee's favorite is hard. I got a lot of ones that I think are a little bit confusing. You made me answer the questions. You don't get to wiggle out. Nope. I'll probably say Demetrius Knight was also my least favorite. I think just based on everything that you guys have said. Looking at just digging into this a little bit more.
I mean, Savion Williams to the Packers is one. That was my head scratcher. That's a head scratcher to me. So maybe the head scratcher is best for that. But I think there are a lot of receivers that were a little bit confusing if we just want to do the head scratchers now. Well, and I think, you know, we could go with, you know, like Pat Bryant, go in like him over Jalen Knoll. Yeah. Or, you know, like it. Clearly, they have a vision for Pat Bryant in that scheme, but to take him over...
Jalen Noel or maybe some of these other receivers was a little bit surprising. So that was another one I wrote down as Didn't love that pick. One that I
was surprised to see and would have pushed back a little bit on. The Samuel Williams one I think is exactly, yeah, I'm with you on that. Just how he fits within that offense is hard for me to understand. One, that's a head scratcher only just because looking at the offensive skill position players and the way that they're put together, it's not a head scratcher in a bad way. Jack Besh going to the Raiders and just what that.
skill position group looks like i kind of like when your dog gets confused just kind of tilts his head that's how i feel about the raiders right now it's not a good or bad thing it's just a moment of like huh more intrigue all right i guess that's what we're doing here yeah no and it's It makes the Raiders more watchable because of that intrigue. Because, okay, how is this going to work? How are they going to implement him into this offense?
to kind of bring everything together. And so we talked about it when Besh was drafted and I... Just listening to ourselves talk, there was more excitement in our tone of voice than confusion. We talked about it for 10 minutes. But it was more excited talk than confused talk. Absolutely. It's one that I'm excited to see how it plays out.
Yeah, the burden thing, just talking about it a little bit further, Derek, even beyond what you think of him as a player, how the receiving pieces are supposed to fit together in the offense, maybe they have a vision for it. Maybe they have a vision for how he can be complimentary to what DJ Moore gives them. Again, we mentioned it on the live when we're doing the stream.
I think that you look at the way they use Jamison Williams in the Lions offense. It's a lot different than we anticipated them using Jamison Williams. There's a lot of crossers, yak opportunities. The Lions offense was really built. on that. I mean, you look at it, Jared Goff is near the bottom of the league in average air yards per attempt. They're one of the most efficient passing teams in the league because of how they create those yak opportunities.
so finding a player that gives that to you i get that but dj moore that's some of the best stuff he does so it's Ben Johnson has more vision than I will ever have about offensive football, but right now as I sit here, I just don't totally understand how all the pieces are supposed to fit together. The only way I think you can sell it is that obviously as a pure receiver, Burton's a little raw. And so maybe they think just because they already have Roma Dunze and because they have DJ Moore.
That year one for Burton is actually more of just kind of like an onboarding process to get him to play a little bit more legitimate receiver, but... You thought he was so talented that at that point in the draft, maybe they had him high as a first-round pick and just like...
what are we going to do? We're not going to take this guy when we still need a third receiver because they do. It's all I mean is Zaccheaus right now. And I know that they, you know, theoretically, you're going to play two tight ends with Komet and Loveland, but we talked about it last night.
Komet, there's not much guaranteed money left on that deal. If he's not a bear after this season, it wouldn't be shocking. You need a third receiver. Even if the pieces don't fit perfectly together, there might have been a situation where they just said,
he's the 15th player on our board. We're really going to pass on him here just because we have two receivers already. I guess I can understand that. And I love it for burden. I mean, I love, you know, he was a player who thought he'd be a first round pick. He wasn't fell to the day two.
And he goes to a situation where the offensive coordinator, also the head coach, really believes in this player yeah and so if you're burdened i think you feel good about the situation you're walking into and just again going back to the vision that ben johnson has for you in that offense
That's pretty exciting. That's why it's a head-scratcher for me and not something I'm dumping on because there's a chance this works out great because of how talented he is. It's just hard to conceive of the construction of the offense right now. Your biggest surprise... of Night 2 Dane was what?
I mean, is this where we talk about Shadrish Sanders? I think it is. It kind of has to be. Yeah. I think it is. Again, we didn't talk about him yesterday as a surprise because it wasn't a surprise that he fell out of the first round. But once we're talking about falling out of the top 100 picks... falling out of the first three rounds. that's a little bit of a surprise, especially when, so today, just preparing for night two of the draft, there's a second round, third round, making calls.
Trying to find the team that was going to make a move for him, I couldn't find anybody. The Saints were a shuck team. And, you know, I felt pretty confident about that. The Raiders, you didn't rule them out, but it didn't sound like the Raiders were going to be that team. The Browns. It sounded like, okay, they're going to load up four picks for next year, and then they come back and take Dylan Gabriel. So, you know, the Browns were, you know, who knew?
It was always pointing to the Steelers. And then the Steelers come on the clock in the third round. They didn't trade up. They could have stayed in the third round and taken Shudder Sanders. They don't. They take Caleb Johnson, the running back. So it's like, all right, now we look towards the fourth round. It's anybody's guess at this point where Shadour goes because Is there a team that says, well, at this point in draft, why not? It's backup.
But of a lot of teams saying, we just don't even want them in our quarterback. That's a fair thing to point out. It's a fair thing to question. With other positions, there are other teams. they're players where it's like, all right, well, we just can't let them fall another pick. You know, we've got to take them at this point.
With Sugar Sanders, it might be a lot different where teams are saying, look, we just don't want anything to do with him at this point. And it doesn't matter if we're getting tremendous value in the fourth round. We don't want this as part of our culture and what we're building. We feel it's going to be a distraction. And whether that's fair or not, I'm not here to say that it is or not. It's just, this is what NFL teams are going to be talking about. And it's a situation where...
We could be mid-fourth round, fifth round. Who knows where he's going to come off the board tomorrow? No one would have thought he would fall out of the first three rounds. So it's anybody's guess at this point. You articulated it on the stream and I want you to just kind of relay it out for the podcast audience. You think I remember that?
talking about how the way that he approached the process and maybe some of the mistakes in that and why it leads to a potential outcome like this. Well, and like you said, the reason he fell out of the first round was more to do with the tape and the trade. The reason he was the 34th player on your board. Exactly. Why he fell out of the top 100, I think, was more of a result, a reflection of the way he...
Went into this process and handled himself. You know, he didn't really do anything in terms of the shrine game. He didn't do anything at the combine, did private workout, and, you know, I had a pro day, but it really wasn't something that... It was late in the process and it didn't get teams excited. But during the meetings, There was a lot of negative feedback from teams at the Combine and a lot of negative feedback throughout the process about the way he handled himself.
It's something where we don't know. We weren't there. We're just secondhand information. So it's hard for us to really talk about that. But I think NFL teams have spoken with obviously passing on him through three rounds. For him to go into these meetings feeling like he has leverage, feeling like, you know, he's there's a certain point where. that boldness it's just not for everybody and it can rub people the wrong way and the way kind of i
I said it out of the combine was it's not that he's a bad guy or a good guy. It's just he's a not-for-everybody guy. And not-for-everybody could be something that includes 32 teams, apparently. it's just a fascinating fascinating test case and
If we know anything about Shredder Sanders, it's going to create a bigger chip on his shoulder. And so wherever he does end up tomorrow on day three, it will be fascinating to track him the rest of the way. When you're not a not-for-everybody guy, when you are not-for-everybody guy personality-wise. plus physical traits to the table. It's a combination that can lead to an outcome like this. You're not good enough on the field that we're going to put up with this and tolerate it. Bingo.
And that's speculation, right? But it seems like we're getting pointed in that direction. The juice has to be worth the squeeze. And I said this on the main live show. physically he's pretty similar to a guy like Teddy Bridgewater but Teddy Bridgewater was still able to go 32nd overall and be an immediate starting quarterback
Because who the hell doesn't love themselves from Teddy Bridgewater? He's like an all-time dude. He was a great teammate. He was really smart with the ball, all that stuff. I remember being in Minnesota after he had that injury. And I remember... just how shell-shocked everyone at that training camp was in that moment just devastated for days afterwards and not for like oh we're not going to have our quarterback it's like they felt bad for the guy yes
Did you hear the phone call between the Giants and Jackson Dart? No. They said both, I believe both Dable and Shane, Joe Shane said, you killed the process. You, every step of the way, you killed it. And that matters. You have to be able to senior bowl, all-star games, the combine, the, all the workouts and everything you have to. handle yourself a certain way because it's a job interview.
And so you can't go into it thinking like, well, they'll be lucky to have me. I have the leverage. And again, that's speculation. It's secondhand information. But I think it's a fair assumption to make based off of the way things have played out. Dylan Gabriel going ahead of Stewart Sanders. Again, Dylan Gabriel is a guy you want in your quarterback room because he makes, even if he does not become a long-term starter, which...
Probably slim chance that Dylan Gabriel will become a long-term starter in the NFL. Any third-round pick at quarterback. Sure, but you want a guy that makes you better, and he makes your quarterback room better. And so... It seems like an initial shock that Dylan Gabriel would go ahead of Shador Sanders, but the more you think about it, you understand why it played out that way.
Let's get to other big surprises from tonight, Derek. Your biggest surprise, non-Shadour Sanders related, was what tonight? I'm cheating a little bit, but actually following the same theme of picks that did not happen, I'm kind of stunned that the Bucs didn't take a pass rusher. Their pass rush room is not good. They have Yaya Diaby, who's solid, but not an ace. They went and signed Hassan Redick, who...
At his best is awesome, but he didn't play football last year. And that's a scary bet to make, especially for a guy who's getting a little bit older. He's 31 years old. Exactly. And it's a one-year deal. This is a bet on Chris Briz... Chris Braswell and maybe that's not what we're considering here and I could get that and maybe this is me just getting into my own head about what I think about the player
He's an edge setter to me. And a pretty good one, actually. Like, I think he's a really good run defender, but I just don't see that much pass rush upside with him, so... I was just stunned that they didn't want to take a risk at that spot. And I get it with some of the other players that were on the board with where they took. I think that Parish pick, I really believe, was like... And Morrison's good, too. Yeah, well...
But, I mean, I think that they might have – if Morrison was off the board, they might have taken Parrish in the second round. I think it was a case of, oh, Parrish is still there. All right, we can't pass him up. So, yeah, I don't think maybe they intended on double dipping at corner.
but not surprised they did because of the player. And Igbuka was probably the same case, right? Where it's like, maybe they didn't need it, but he was so clearly to me better than the rest of the pass rushers that were left on the board. So maybe they were like, well... Let's just get the player who's good, which is usually a pretty decent draft strategy. My biggest surprise is just where Jalen Knoll went in this draft. 79th overall.
I loved him. I just, I loved everything about what he brought to the table and just his ability, you know, Derek, we're picking out plays for, you know, we're trying to figure out clips and we're watching them. Some of the post routes he's running and some of the second level separation and just the gas and acceleration. He's strong. He's a good route runner. He can go up and get the ball. His catch rate is bigger than you would think for a smaller player.
So for him to last as long as he did, and then for the Texans to be able to draft him after drafting Jaden Higgins, and now you're dropping both of those guys onto the same offense again. with Nico Collins, and then Tank Dell becomes sort of a luxury. Christian Kirk is only there for this year. It's a really fun outcome, even if he lasted a little bit longer than I thought he would.
He definitely lasted longer than I thought. I mean, we were talking about him from pick like 34, which is where the Texans picked the first time. And it was like, he should be off the board here. Obviously, it took 40 more picks for that. But I really liked Noel as well. I mean, Noel was the guy where...
uh when i was watching these guys i actually went in to watch higgins first because he was a little bit higher on consensus boards and all that stuff and then you're just watching and it's like man the guy who's 5'11", 190. He's faster than everybody on the field. He's quick. He's a good route runner. And then to me, it was the ball skills. Like, he just... not a big player but he plays so much bigger in terms of what he can go get around him so
I really liked him. I was shocked he lasted that long. My comp from was Christian Kirk type of player. Christian Kirk was a top 50 pick. To see him fall a little bit was a little surprising, especially for a player who dominated every level of the process.
senior bowl was awesome killed the combine he was good throughout and that was just kind of putting the exclamation point on an outstanding season or outstanding career at iowa state where you know one of the best receivers ever go through that program so
The Texans, it might have probably the same situation where they didn't anticipate drafting both Iowa State receivers tonight, but they found themselves in a position where, shoot, we can't pass on this guy at this point. And just totally remake that, not remake, but.
to bolster a wide receiver depth chart that just needed a little bit more, and they addressed it in a big way. We talked about it on the show. The way that I look at him, I think I understand what he is. I think he's a vertical slot player in the NFL. And maybe some teams look at that and they see him pigeonholed there. You think that's a little bit too rigid for us to spend a second round pick on a guy. I don't look at it that way. The fact that I can understand what he is.
That's a plus to me, not a minus. But maybe for some teams, it's a little bit too limiting for them to spend a higher pick on him. Or there's so many teams that want that specific type of player, but they had a greater needed edge. And so it just didn't work out. And sometimes that happens in a draft where...
you know, there's only so many landing spots and it's just, that's the beauty of the draft and how everything plays out. All right. If you're watching on YouTube, we're going to keep on rolling. If you're listening to this on the podcast, we're going to take a quick break.
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I think I'm Mike Green at the Ravens. Obviously, the off-field stuff is the off-field stuff, and we'll see how that plays out. But just thinking about this Ravens team and... Ojabo and Kyle Vannoy and Owe and like they just they needed a an ace they really did and Mike Green can be that guy he was a top 10 player on my board And he has the issues off the field that scared off a lot of teams.
The Ravens got to a certain point where they said, we can't pass on this guy again. And this could end up looking like a huge steal when it's all said and done. I hope so for... the the person and the player that that's how it ends up and you know also for the ravens but Just in terms of fit and for the, you know, obviously Mike Green wishes he would have gone top 20, but for him to land where he did and the Ravens to address the position the way they did, just love the fit.
You know, there were a lot of picks where it's like, OK, this team needed this. And then they took a guy I liked and I got animated about it. The pick I got the most animated about. when I just thought about, like, what could this player's potential be here? It's Terrence Ferguson with the Rams. I mean, dude. I almost said that was my backup behind Mike Green, yeah. Like, he is such a phenomenal athlete. You know, I pulled up the clip when we were doing the live show, but...
He just has that incredible ability to race across the field on crossers. He's a really good guy that you can put in the slot, but he can still play in line. He's not the best blocker, but... You know, to me, the line is like, can you just be a better blocker than like the Sam Laportas and stuff like that? And I think he clears that line. I don't think Sean McFay is going to draft you if you're not over that line. And so that was pretty comforting to me. And so Ferguson is a guy to me is just.
When you bet on the tight end position, you need a guy who can move. And to pair a guy like that with To me, probably still the best play caller in the league. I'm extremely excited about that. I have like seven, is that okay? Dylan Fairchild going to the Bengals. Absolutely love it.
That left guard spot has been an absolute wasteland for that Bengals team even when they were good. We wanted ass kickers for Cincinnati. Offense and defense. You go watch Dylan Fairchild play and that's exactly what he is.
It's a little erratic. It's a little bit all over the place. I love what he's bringing to the table. Cincinnati needs a presence like that. Yeah, there was a player I was excited to talk about on the pod we did with DJ about our favorite players because I really hadn't got a chance to... get everything out on Fairchild like I wanted to. That was my chance, and I love the player. I think it was tremendous value for the Bengals.
for a position they really needed. I hadn't watched him yet because we were doing the offensive linemen the next week. And so I'm starting to watch the Georgia guys because there's three of them, right? You're watching them all at the same time. All three went tonight. And Routledge is a higher rated player. I understand that. We'll talk about him in a second.
But I just kept coming back to Dylan Fairchild. I was like, this is the type of guy I want on my team. The name you brought up throughout this whole process. and I think in a lot of ways there are parallels, is Wyatt Teller. Because Wyatt Teller was a wild horse coming out. He was a fifth-round pick. He was traded earlier in his career. He figured it out. I think there are a lot of potential similarities if that works out.
Talk about favorite fits. Let's stick with Georgia offensive linemen. Tate Rattwood's going to the Lions. F***ing rules. That is so... So good. It's exactly the type of player that you could anticipate just working out in Detroit, what he's bringing to the table. He said it himself. He's a self-proclaimed dirtbag. And those are the types of guys that I think the Lions want on their offensive line. And so attitude fits, the skill set fits.
He's a really good athlete. And he's 6'6". He's a big guy. And you see the power that he plays with. He will displace guys. But he's also a really good athlete. And he showed that at the combine. The testing was phenomenal. It really was. And I think if he had played a full season this year and injuries weren't really a question because he's missed time before. If you felt really good about him being a durable player, he's off the board in the top 40 or 50 pitch.
I just love with the Lions. It's kind of like we've talked about with the Ravens. It's not just that they're good drafters. It's that when they get to the pick, you kind of know who it's going to be. And when the Lions are up there, it's just like, he's there. Come on. Josiah Stewart going to the Rams I absolutely love. He's just the type of guy when you think about how they've built that defensive front. Him with Jared versus just sign me up for that.
all day. I love Nick Emanuari going to the Seahawks. That guy going to a defense with Mike McDonald, we mentioned it when they were on the clock. We thought it might be corner when they traded up. But it almost is a move at corner if you play it out a little bit. Because if they keep Kobe Bryant in the deep half and with...
Julian Love and they put Emin Wari in the slot and they can move Devin Witherspoon outside you get some optionality with that secondary so Emin Wari I think is probably a player Dane that people looked at it just like
what is he yeah right like what is absolutely and then when he lands in a place like seattle it's like i guess i kind of understand what he is it's the same thing with luther burden where this is a and then war is a player that thought he was going to go top 25 he didn't it's a bummer
But where he lands, it makes it all worth it. Even though he fell a little bit further than he wanted to, to go with that coaching staff in Seattle. Again, I mentioned, you know, he's different than Cam Chancellor, but to bring a little bit of that attitude back with the size, the speed. And a little bit of position confusion, role confusion, I think was why he fell as far as he did. But you know that the Seahawks and McDonald has a clear vision for how he fits in that scheme.
Landon Jackson to the Bills. Yeah. In the 70s. Makes perfect sense. Just makes perfect sense. He's a limited player, but the boxes he checks are the boxes they want checked at that position. Just one more guy who can affect the pocket even after signing Joey Bosa. Absolutely something they needed. Caleb Johnson going to the Steelers is perfect. It's perfect. We talked about it on the running back show.
And I was looking at it, and I just didn't think it would happen because they didn't have a second-round pick. I was like, he is a perfect fit for that offense and the skill set they need at running back, but they're not picking in the second round, so that's probably not going to happen. He lasts in the third. He winds up in Pittsburgh. Love what the Steelers have done with Derek Harmon in the first.
I mean, we can include DK Metcalf in there for getting him for a second round pick and then coming back in the third with Caleb. who perfect for the zone scheme he got dinged up a little bit during the process because of the way the combine went the pro day wasn't great but that's just The Steelers are going to take advantage of that and get a really good player who was... Iowa offense this year ranked
like 130th and pass offense. Everybody in the world knew it was going to be about the run game and they still couldn't stop them. So yeah, Caleb Johnson, he, if you're going to block for him, he's going to take advantage of it and he's going to get you positive yardage.
I'm going to do three more, all picks in a row. We don't have to spend a lot of time on them. RJ Harvey going to the Broncos is one of my favorite fits in the entire draft. We talk about Trayvon Henderson going there. This to me feels like a wonderful. Travion Henderson consolation prize if you were not going to go that direction. Just the pop they need at that position within the offense makes perfect sense. You can see it.
I can already tell you that in all my fantasy drafts, I'm going to be targeting him in like the 12th round. Yes, exactly. Yes. Because he will be productive in whatever way they use him. Yeah, I'm excited for that one. Trey Amos going to Washington. Oh, yeah. They needed a player like this. to move mikey saying we're still back inside i love the fit there corner with 61st overall and shamar turner going to the bears
I really wanted them to add somebody like this over the course of this draft. Juice, position flexibility. They needed one more guy who can affect the pocket even after what they did in free agency. And just watching him earlier today, I could absolutely talk myself into this. And, you know, looking at this range, I actually I know he's a little bit of an undersized guy and I know
who knows how long he's going to be able to play. Andrew Makuba is actually kind of the perfect Vic Fangio safety. Their defense is like, all right, we're going to be in too high.
somebody's going to fly out of the shell here and go kill somebody. And that is the exact way that Makuba wants to play. And so how long are you going to get him to be able to do that with his body size? I don't know, but... he really is like the perfect kind of safety for their defense before we get out of here i want to answer a couple questions that we got in the chat over the course of the stream we got two of them first one is from jake damley he says
Question I had is whether you think this is a draft that DT is being viewed as just as important at edge with several runs, reaches for defensive tackle prospects versus the day two defense events. What do you think about that, Dane? Yeah, I mean, I think the edge is gets more the love just because you think of uh the past rush and all that but i like defensive line and just winning in the trenches is... so important for the entire defense to work in general.
And there's just only so many of these guys who have everything, both the size, the athleticism, the strength, and just the understanding of how to play the position. And so this is it. We've been talking about this the entire process. It's a defensive line draft. both on the edge and on the interior. And so it's not a surprise to see a lot of these teams go in that direction when it was a need. And they just kind of wanted to, they didn't want to be caught without one of these guys.
I think for me, it's just if we're going to live in this world that's a little bit more too high, you have to be. solid along the spine of the defense and we've seen that with some of the defenses that have been bad the last two three years is that's where they really struggled is the middle of the defense and so i think that's probably the part of the reason that we're seeing Teams a little bit more willing to push DTs up the board a little bit and make that the run as opposed to Edge.
I think we're seeing the gap start to close financially between the two positions, and that changes the way that you can think about premium spots. Defensive tackle to me is a premium position. That whatever little distance there is between edge players and defensive tackles, overall value I think is starting to shrink. But also just beyond that, when I think about defensive lines right now, and a lot of teams approach it this way in free agency.
All I think about is how are you affecting the quarterback? I don't really care which position it's coming from anymore. Your best pass rusher can easily be a defensive tackle now. jalen carter chris jones you can build an elite defense that way but even beyond that i think this is just me being like It's been being power-pilled over the last three or four years. These guys who are pocket pushers, who affect the pocket.
whatever they look like whatever position you want to write next to their name I don't really care as long as you're affecting the pocket you're creating uncertainty discomfort for whatever team you're playing against puncturing the pocket is what matters. Where it comes from, it's inconsequential to me. It's part of the reason why the Browns felt comfortable moving back and taking Mason Graham. They had a...
Very big grade on Mason Graham. And it goes to... his ability being a leverage monster and deconstructing blocks and the different ways that he affected the pocket the last two years at Michigan. was impossible to ignore whenever you watch that defense on tape. And that was very much something the Browns needed to address in a big way, and they did that at number five overall.
Next one here from Tristan B. He said, Dane has referenced grading to the flashes. What is that process and how does it differ between analysts and teams? Yeah. And that's so when I say greeting to the flashes, meaning this is Chris Ballard told me this, you know, 10 years ago. If you've seen a guy do something once, you can coach it to be more consistent for him. But if he shows you that he can do it once, then there's... that means he could do it. And so
There are players that are inconsistent for different reasons. Sometimes it's a physical thing, sometimes a mental thing, a technical thing. But you feel like, all right, I know he can do this. Now it's up to us and the coaches to get more out of him. Some coaching staffs and scouting staffs are a little more open to that and that philosophy of, hey, let's grade to the flashes and let's make a bet on we're going to get them the rest of the way there.
where other teams are maybe a little more conservative. And we're not going to paint with a broad brush, but it's Marsh Stewart. If you grade to the flashes, you can understand how the Bengals would say, hey, watch the film, greater the flashes, and we feel very comfortable taking him in the top 20. I feel like there's a lot of greater the flashes, interior defensive linemen and edge players in this draft specifically. Walter Nolan. Walter Nolan is like that.
Jordan Burch, his best moments look like that. You mentioned Darius Alexander as a player like that. There are a lot of defensive linemen where it's just like, all right, you put their 10 best.
plays up here and they look like all pros and so i can understand teams trying to talk themselves into that and that's what you know mentioned uh dane you mentioned the different reasons why a guy might be a little bit more flashy it's sometimes it's mental sometimes it's technical sometimes it's physical if it's physical it's like Man, the athlete is the athlete and sometimes that's a little bit tougher to fit.
If it's technique, you can maybe talk to the coaches there, maybe talk to the player. How was the coaching there? Maybe we can be better at that. And then if it's mental, it's again, it's like, okay, well, how does this guy learn?
And are we going to be able to teach him properly? Maybe if it's a 21 year old making a lot of mental mistakes, you can sell yourself like, well, we'll get him into the building. He'll mature. If it's a 24, 25 year old prospect, you might be less willing to have the appetite for that. So like you mentioned, it's kind of just.
why does he have these flashes instead of being consistent? And then do we think we can get more out of them? And that's the key part of it. And that's why, in my opinion, area scouts will always be a vital part of the process and scouting is because they are doing the legwork and understanding the context of why is it this way? How is he being coached?
Just getting all those little details to understand what you're seeing on tape is... good or bad or this needs to be improved or this you know why things are the way they are the context of it so and that that's what it's up to the area scouts to figure that out is it something that he can improve is it something where this is just kind of who he is And just understanding why it's not being more consistent. So grading to the flashes can certainly backfire, but it's also how you can unearth some.
guys that you kind of hear we hear this a lot maybe during the process is he'll be a better pro than college player which can be overused a lot sure but it's certainly a relevant phrase to use with certain prospects We're going about six hours here. I think it's time for us to wrap it up.
We sincerely appreciate everybody who has tuned in over the last couple of nights. I tweeted about it earlier today. I mean, the numbers on these shows and even what they compare to from last year, it's crazy to watch the growth and the audience that we've had over the last couple of years, but also just. the quality of what we're trying to put forth on this weekend.
I vividly remember that first draft show in 2021 where me and Nate were sitting in the courtyard by Marriott hotel room with three iPhones. It is very different right now. And that's because you guys are tuning in and we sincerely appreciate that. I want to thank everyone here at Big Shot Studios in Chicago for hosting us over the last couple days. They've done a phenomenal job. We have felt
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One of the reasons that I felt really good about being back here was the chance to work with you and the chance to continue doing this I love it. I have so much respect for you and the work that you put in all year round to be great at this. you make me want to be better at what I'm doing. And so it is a true honor to be able to sit here and do this with you every year. Sincerely. The feeling is absolutely mutual. And I mean, you are steering our ship.
So this does not work unless we have a captain steering us in the right direction. And that is kind of the best compliment I can give to you. So thank you, Derek. Sincerely appreciate everything that you've given throughout the entire season and this, you know, you started as like a draft.
space person and how I found your work working on quarterbacks and I always loved, even before we hired you, the way that I would always talk about you is I thought you had a better way of articulating what makes players special and different. than almost anybody. You just had a way to kind of distill why a guy feels the way that he feels. And I think that you do such a great job of applying that skill to the draft process. So having you here tonight has just been.
such a pleasure and it's so fun to work with you over the last year i mean i don't even know what to say i'm just i'm blessed to be here again this is you know again one i was always a draft guy growing up that's how i got started and so this day this moment has always been very special to me and so to be able to to get paid to be on this stage with you on uh with these guys is phenomenal i mean
And that too, like, again, this is always how I spent my birthday. I can't imagine doing it any other way. And so I've just been incredibly blessed to be part of this program. And so I'm happy to do it again next year. And I'm just.
Again, you've been such a great host for me. I think you've already, you know, when I joined, i did mostly written work like i didn't do a whole lot of of talking and podcasting and being in front of the camera and i just think You brought parts out of me the way that I was able to explain stuff and articulate stuff and talk about things the way that I actually wanted to talk about them.
instead of just throwing my mind jumble out there and i just i couldn't appreciate that anymore so i feel like i've grown in doing this and Hope this is only the beginning. You are a very welcome addition to our draft coverage this year. So we really appreciate everything you brought to the show. Definitely. Thank you, Dan. We're not done this weekend. We're just done with the live streams. Our next show will be coming out. tomorrow evening into Sunday. We're going to be recapping.
Day three of the draft, rounds four through seven. Not live. We're not going to talk about every single pick. We talked about every single pick today over the last two days. If it were up to you, we would be sitting there all through rounds four through seven. We are not going to do that, but we are going to have a recap podcast that is going to be showing up. on YouTube and the athletic football show feed on the podcast channel over the next 24 hours or so after that wraps up.
please like, subscribe, do all of that great stuff. If you're new and you've been hanging out with us this weekend, we sincerely appreciate it. We do this show all year round. not just the draft. So if you want to stick around, that would mean a lot to us. And it means a lot every single one of you to spend some time with us this weekend. So that's all we got for now. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.