Marvin: Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly, Marvin: and we're back with another Casting Angles with Mack Brown. Mack, how are you? Mac: I'm doing great, Marvin. How are you doing? Marvin: As always, I'm just trying to stay out of trouble. And, you know, Marvin: we were talking before we started recording, you had a really good casting school this past weekend. Mac: Oh, yeah, it was really, when I think back, Connie and I talked a lot about
Mac: it Sunday night when it was over. I really think it was one of the funner groups Mac: I've seen in a very long time. Mac: They were all really, really talented, really receptive and malleable and on Mac: that path of growth, you know. Mac: So it made it really rewarding for the two days with them. And that was fun. Mac: We got to go out on the town of Bryson on Saturday night. Mac: And that was a lot of fun. Eat dinner and listen to live music.
Mac: And that made it special, too. Just the camaraderie of the whole group together, you know.
Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of a good thing, too. you know we were also Marvin: talking it's kind of funny so i'm in charlotte and i Marvin: guess the the tropical depression hurricane that came through uh the gulf uh Marvin: last week is getting here we're gonna get about two inches of rain and you're Marvin: not gonna get much of anything which is you know been kind of the the story Marvin: for like the last i don't know two months in your neck of the woods to the root
Marvin: so the creeks are low so it's good to have something to do maybe other than fishing right. Mac: It is that doesn't look like we're going to get any out of this one still like Mac: i don't think we were predicted to get any and it's like yeah it's really low Mac: i mean everything's about as low as i've seen it in a long time like really Mac: long time maybe 20 years it's like i haven't seen it this low so it's good this Mac: is setting up for a really technical fall yeah.
Marvin: Which is good i mean if you like the challenge you know and it's funny too because Marvin: we were talking i don't know it's a couple reports uh back i think we were talking Marvin: about the fact that the main uh trout hatchery is going to of closed down for Marvin: renovations for a while. Marvin: And you were like, well, I don't want to talk about it because, Marvin: you know, I haven't read anything about it, just kind of what I've heard.
Marvin: And there was actually an email that came out in the last week or so from the Marvin: state fishing game folks. Marvin: And, you know, I can kind of give folks a little bit of an update if you want me to. Mac: Yeah, that'd be great because there's lots of different rumors saying the state Mac: was going to buy the same number in stock. Mac: And then a lot of them said that, no, it wasn't. It was going to be reduced.
Mac: So, yeah, I mean, I'd like to hear it because I didn't see that email. Marvin: Yeah, and I'll drop a link to it. It's from the website, but the short version Marvin: is stockings are normal through 2024, and then they're going to shut down the hatchery. Marvin: And the hatchery we're talking about is that big hatchery that's on the Davidson River. Marvin: And that's the hatchery that provides most of the trout for the state of North Carolina.
Marvin: And so they're going to renovate that, and they're expecting stockings to be Marvin: reduced by 65% for 2025 and 2026, maybe into early 2027. Marvin: So, you know, the state has – they're in the process of negotiating, Marvin: you know, buying fish from other states and from private people, Marvin: but there are really only so many.
Marvin: And, you know, the short of the article is, you know, even once the hatchery's Marvin: back online, it's going to take a while to grow stockable-sized fish. Marvin: And so we may not be back to kind of 2024 levels until 2029. Mac: Yeah, that's several years out, too. Mac: That's really going to affect a lot of the state with that long of a closure.
Marvin: Yeah, and so, you know, I guess what I would say from an advice perspective Marvin: is to, you know, probably pay more attention than usual to stocking schedules. Marvin: And, you know, what the state is saying in this article is that they're going Marvin: to basically continue to stock hatchery-supported and delayed harvest water, Marvin: and they're going to kind of ratably spread the fish out. Marvin: So, you know, we're going to have significantly lower numbers of fish.
Marvin: And so, you know, you know, that's going to be a big difference if you get, Marvin: you know, a third of what you're expecting to get in like January 2025. Mac: Yeah, well, that'll definitely, that'll affect everything. The babble lobbers are in trouble, Martin. Mac: So they're going to be in trouble because they're not going over the same number. Mac: They might have to learn a new technique. Marvin: They could come to one of your schools, Matt Brown.
Mac: Well, with it this low is what I'm saying. It's like, that would be, that is true. Mac: Like this fall, I know a lot of the, I mean, just for one reason I say that, Mac: I'm not really making fun of that. Mac: I'm just saying the majority, 90% of stuff you see up here was trips.
Mac: So that's what people do. And with the water this low and to have a golf ball Mac: splat on the surface with the water as low as it is, that's going to make it Mac: even tougher, you know, especially during a low water event. Mac: You probably don't want to have a golf ball splatting down, you know? Marvin: Yeah. So, I mean, you know, what I would say, right, if you're in like low technical Marvin: fall fishing, you know, one probably at most probably a yarn indicator, right?
Mac: Yeah. Yarn or dry dropper, you know, using the dry, you could use some dry flies that are bigger.
Mac: With like you know rabbit's foot you could use rabbit's foot um just pick some Mac: high floatability flies like the snowshoe rabbit foot flies are really good Mac: in the fall when it's low because it lands like a i like that i like to fish Mac: a dry i just like having something up there, Mac: in case they happen to look up because there's a lot of times in the fall marvin Mac: where they'll hit the little poly indicator a bunch and it's like then you think
Mac: wow why didn't i put a hook on it but you know the poly indicators get a lot Mac: of strikes when they're orange in the fall because of the orange caddis that happened. Mac: So you'll see a lot of orange poly getting hit. Mac: So you might as well put a... Years ago, I did this a lot out there. Mac: Literally, I'd take poly, and the whole pattern that I'm fishing for the indicator was just poly. Mac: Like a poly wing, an F-style dry fly of just poly latched to a hook.
Mac: There's nothing else on it. Mac: There's no dubbing, there's no hackle, there's no anything. That would be the indicator. Mac: And it was shocking how many fish you'd catch on the indicator fly, Mac: which was literally an indicator. Mac: So, yeah, having a little hook on it, little dry fly wire is probably better Mac: off than just having poly with not anything on it, you know?
Marvin: Yeah, I'm a big fan of either orange elk hair caddis or stimulators, Marvin: kind of as the, if I was going to do the dry dropper thing this time of year. Mac: Oh, for sure. Because the stimulator, especially in like a size 12, Mac: that's really the perfect size matching the orange caddis. You know, Mac: you start seeing those usually about middle of October and you'll see them all Mac: the way up to about middle of November.
Mac: And that's probably my favorite, favorite pattern for that time of year. Marvin: And then I guess we would also say, right, you know, longer, Marvin: thinner leaders is another way to go. Marvin: And to probably start your presentations upstream with the fish to give yourself Marvin: a little bit more time to get your act together, right?
Mac: Yes basically with this low water like long and fine Mac: setups are going to be king for Mac: sure i mean i don't think i don't think having them short Mac: is very good advice for anybody for any technique like to Mac: have it really short as low as it is it's Mac: just so it's so low that i think Mac: it was last wednesday i went up uh slick rock on the Mac: tennessee state line i ended up hiking i didn't Mac: even fish but one little spot and i mean
Mac: i've never seen it that low it was literally you know Mac: the big waterfall called wildcat falls up there it's just Mac: a trickle just a little trickle coming over the falls we used Mac: to kayak it a lot when it would flood back in the 80s but i walked all the way Mac: back up from the lake at calderwood lake almost to joyce kilmer where that headwater Mac: slick rock forms and i ended up just doing a hike up the river and then back
Mac: out just to see it you know because it's a nice place to hike. Mac: I was more doing a hike, I guess you could say. Mac: But I've never seen it that low. And it's the same thing with a lot of these creeks around. Mac: Right now, it's just kind of low, excessively low. Mac: So, yeah, lengthening out the setup is going to be huge and also reducing weight. Mac: You know, like people will open the box and it's got their favorite, Mac: whatever their pattern is in there with weight.
Mac: And it's like, right now, you want to be fishing, you know, Mac: know a whole lot lighter because just the fact of Mac: the weight going in there makes a huge disturbance at this Mac: level you know so if you had a four millimeter mop fly that you fished in the Mac: spring and you wanted to do it now a lot of the mops i'm fishing this time of Mac: year unweighted it's just the weight of the hook because you know the material's
Mac: neutral density so you throw it in it's still going to sink to the bottom real Mac: quick it's just it's not going to disturb stuff when it hits, Mac: as much as having a bead you know so a lot of things too like brass you know Mac: brass gets a bad nowadays, everybody thinks tungsten, tungsten. Mac: It's like, you know, I would go to brass because brass is half the way to, Mac: about half the way to lead.
Mac: So fishing a lot of brass flies that are small right now are perfect, Mac: you know, for small flies. Mac: We're still using a lot of small flies, but brass is like, I don't know. Mac: I think brass is underutilized, to be honest, because I fish a lot of brass this time of year. Marvin: Yeah, or even small nymphs with glass beads, right? Mac: Oh, yeah. Glass could be good, too, especially going into early winter when we get the betas.
Mac: A lot of the betas activity, there's a lot of times we'll use little purple Mac: beads or clear beads for betas just to have a little bit different pop on it. I like glass quite a bit. Mac: So that's fantastic. But that's going to really affect. Yeah, Mac: it's going to be interesting to see what happens with all these big outings and trips. Mac: And it'll be interesting to see because I don't know really how much it'll affect.
Mac: I mean, it definitely will affect the fishing as far as like tourism and saying, Mac: oh, we're not going. We're going to Georgia or we're going to Tennessee. Mac: I don't think so because I don't think there's such a destination with 13.5 Mac: million people a year visiting the park. I don't think they're at home looking Mac: about, did they stalk or didn't they stalk? Mac: They're going to probably learn it after they're here, you know?
Mac: So I don't think most people will know that coming either. So I wonder how much Mac: it affects, that's what I'm saying. Marvin: Yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, I think probably to me, the best defense is a good offense. Marvin: And so I would say, you know, one way to approach this is, you know, Marvin: at some level, it's going to be more challenging, right? Because you're going to have fewer fish. Mac: Right? Marvin: Right. And, you know, my general, I mean, you've done construction.
Marvin: I've done construction finance. Marvin: Very rarely do things CO on time. Right. So I would imagine that this hatchery Marvin: project is going to take longer than they think it's going to take. Mac: It's like the highway in Asheville they've been working on for 15 years. Yeah. Marvin: Yeah. Mac: And so that just like on 26.
Marvin: Yeah, it just is. It is what it is. But what I would say is then maybe the approach Marvin: to take is, you know, try to kind of break things down and, Marvin: you know, take advantage of having fewer fish that are going to be, Marvin: you know, in theory, better educated because they're going to get caught a lot more.
Marvin: And, you know, kind of come up with a list of techniques and things that you Marvin: want to work on and use this time to work on it so that when there are more Marvin: fish in the river, you're an even more effective angler in two, Marvin: three, four, five years.
Mac: That's right you can still practice all those techniques and perfect something Mac: that you're deficient in and you know a lot of people never have fished a wet Mac: fly i mean go pick a technique you're not familiar with and start working at Mac: it or whatever it might be dry fly you know if you fish nymphs all the time Mac: or tightline nymphing which is you know so popular all over it's like well move Mac: away from that do something else if you want to become more well-rounded.
Marvin: And so, you know, as we get deeper and deeper into fall, right, Marvin: I know you just had a casting school. Marvin: I know you've got a testing event coming up. And I know, you know, Marvin: we were also talking before we started recording, you have got a pretty full 2025 show schedule. Marvin: You want to kind of update folks on kind of what you have going on.
Marvin: And if they want to get in touch with you, either to take a class at a show, Marvin: get on the river with you, take a lesson, what they should do?
Mac: You sure we're gonna start out um i Mac: think the first one is up in uh marlborough near Mac: boston and um that'll be the first one and there's classes at all these but Mac: basically all the fly fishing shows i'm going to do except for lancaster and Mac: then i'm doing the one in saint paul um twin cities in march and there's a couple Mac: other ones right now we're working on that are Mac: overseas that I'm thinking I'm going to probably put those in too.
Mac: So we'll update on that, but probably just looking at the schedule on mattbrownflyfish.com Mac: because I put the dates and everything where they are, like where we'll be. Mac: So that's a good thing in the winter. I really enjoy doing those in the wintertime. Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, folks, as I always say, you owe it to yourself Marvin: to get out there and catch a few. Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Matt. Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.