In today's podcast, we're going to talk about how to raise honest kids. If you value the truth and a culture of truth in your family, you're going to want to listen to this podcast. Welcome to the Art of Raging Humans. Hello and welcome to episode 77 of the Art of Raging Humans. I'm Kyle. And I'm Sarah. And today we're going to talk about the truth, right? Right. The truth and nothing but the truth. Is that how that goes?
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we really, we're really passionate about raising kids who are truthful. Yeah. So I mean a lot to you? Yeah. Yeah. I think it does. I think it does to a lot of people. Why? Why do we want to raise kids that tell the truth? Why is that important to you? Well, I think in general, let's consider it a good character, you know, quality to have that you're an honest person, a truthful person, that people can trust your word and what you say.
And if you can't, then it's really confusing. Yeah. Because I don't know how do I be in relationship with you? Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't know if you're talking about the truth or not. Yeah. Yeah. So what does it mean to raise honest kids? Like if you were to say someone said, I want to raise an honest kid. What do you think that means when people say they want to raise honest kids? Kids who will tell you the truth, even when they'll get in trouble or yeah, that you can trust what they say.
Okay. So that more often than not, you can believe what they're saying is true. Yes. And like you said, even when the outcomes are not positive or beneficial to them, they still will choose the truth. Because I generally think people will think, oh, most likely, people will tell the truth if it's easy and safe. Yeah. When something's on the line or risking something that's when we don't want to tell the truth. I want to get in a little deeper to that subject.
Sarah, first I want to tell listeners, you know, we love doing these podcasts and really love helping families all of the world with this information. And our goal isn't to create parents who do things the way we do, right? We really want a free parents to trust that they know how there's some healthy ways to help change the dynamics of their families, right? We really want to help them be creative to feel they feel safe and love to be the parents that they want to be, right?
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Okay. So now I have a question for you, Sarah. Why if you settle these things, right? And we, I think every listener is like, yes, I want to raise honest kids who tell the truth. Fantastic. I think we all have those goals. Okay. Why is being honest and truthful so difficult for kids? Because it is the highest stakes. Not only, I mean, one obvious one is they could get in trouble.
So if they tell you something and they know that they weren't supposed to do that thing or whatever it might be, then they're going to get in trouble. So who of us wants to walk around? Not me. Getting ourselves in trouble. I don't want to do that. You know, even if you write you, we've all made decisions or choices. They're like, oh, that wasn't a good one. But you don't necessarily want to go tell the important people in your life that you made that decision.
So are you telling me a good example of that? The when the cop pulls me over speeding and says, do you know how fast you're going? I said, no, officer, I don't. Would that be an example of that? Right. We probably all can think of things with our bosses or with family members or even a friend. They're like, no, I don't want to tell them I did this thing. But I think more than a punishment, even though that is something, I think the other thing is just the risk to your view of me.
So our kids, they actually want their parents to think they're the best thing ever. Yeah. Yeah. They like that. Yeah. Because it benefits their life. I mean, if you like them, their life is better. Yeah. You want your friends. You want your boss. You want your family. You want your significant other. You want these people to think the best things of you. Yeah. So I am risking that relationship. I'm risking your view of me by telling you always the truth.
Yes. Because I don't know how you're going to react to that, how you're going to receive it. And especially if you're in a family where it is unpredictable, yeah, that mom or dad have. Well, maybe you do know that they're really going to do this. It's predictable. You're right. But I think the unpredictability is also kind of because then you actually think, oh, they won't be tell it's you then they blow up at you. And you're like, oh, they didn't want to hear that.
Right. But I think when we were you and I were thinking about this and I was thinking the question came to me, how do we create a culture of honesty in our family? So how would if we wanted that, what are we doing to create that? But then you had this better question that came along with that. And I think listeners could could process this with us. What are what are you as a spouse not telling the other spouse? Are the things I love the listeners? I'm not asking you to stay right now.
Yeah, I'm not like, what are you? This is a way to give it out. Sarah, what are you not telling me? No, but I bet everybody is thinking right now of things you've maybe never told you spouse. Well, I think it's really easy for us. Sometimes his parents will be like, come on kids, tell us the truth. Why can't you just be honest with me? If you just flip that around for a moment like, am I always telling the truth? Yeah. Or do I sugarcoat things or maybe not tell the whole truth?
Or maybe there's an entire thing I haven't said yet to this person in my life. Yes. You know, it was something to think about. And also to just be aware of why is it so hard? Right, exactly. It's just to give you information. It can reveal a lot. If this is hard for me, if it took me weeks or months or whatever it took to be able to say this to this person, why? And that's probably a similar situation for your child.
Yeah, I remember especially first being married, that was kind of like being all like there's always things that you did as a single person that you kind of just kept to yourself. And then now you're sharing the stuff and impacts this person. And so, but I'm thinking Sarah, a lot of times what comes up in the private practice is parents just not being honest with their kids. Yeah. Like all types of stuff going on and maybe simple stuff. It's a one way street.
You be honest with me, but I'm not always going to be honest with you. I mean, even I just had a counselor ask me the other day about what I think about a parent looking at their kids phone without asking them. Yeah. Or telling them. Not even saying asking, but not even telling them. You know, secretly doing it or even tracking a kid without the kid knowing you're doing that. You know. And I told her, listen, there's no judgment about parents doing that.
I just think it sets an unsustainable tone, an unhealthy tone, an unhealthy practice. I guess I would say between you and the kid. And once again, I'm asking a kid to do something with me that I'm not willing to do with them. Why? Because I don't trust they can handle the truth. Yeah. And that's how they feel about the parent too, right? Yeah. And then I was telling her to, I think it gives them information that the kid doesn't know they have.
And so then the parent is reacting on that information. And the kid's going to be like, what is the deal? Why are you acting this way? Right? Because the parent isn't being totally honest there. And then I understand some parents are doing it because they feel like safety and things. They have to do it because they say, I get all right. So I think there are some circumstances where it muddies the water. It does definitely muddies the water.
In your relationship, if one person's holding something and the other person doesn't know it and these things are going on, you just got to know it makes the relationship more complicated. So let's start with that. We said, how do we create a culture of honesty in our family? Where we value that? We're raising kids. So your comment was, well, are we actually doing that with each other, right? In a marriage, are we actually honest with one another?
How can I, how can I keep expecting the kid to be honest when I'm not only being honest with my spouse, and also not honest with them? So I've got to look at how honest am I being? What am I modeling? Yeah. But then I was also thinking, another one is, we think the truth is just so simple. Let me back up for a second. Okay. I am saying, I think also it is important to know we're not always going to be honest with our kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there may be reasons for that, right?
To protect them or they're not, you know, they're four years old and they don't need to know something. It's not going to be in their interest. So I just think it's important to bring light to that because your kid could be feeling that same way. Yeah, yeah. I am not sharing this truth with you because it's just not going to help you. I'm protecting you. Yes. And we can judge that or think about that as we want, but it's just important to hold these pieces and bring light to it.
I mean, you said, hold on, but that goes right into what I was about to say, right? Yeah. Well, because what I'm saying is telling the truth, just simply telling all the facts. Yeah. It's not. So I think what you just said is an honest way to approach the thing. Yeah. So being honest and being truthful doesn't mean I tell you everything about the situation. Yeah. It means I'm telling you what I believe in the moment is most helpful to you.
You know, so you might have a situation where something horrible is happening in the family and the little kid, the kid's little, you know. And obviously nobody thinks the honest thing to do is just to tell them all the horrible things happen. I'm going to be honest here. I'm going to be truthful here. I know. I heard these people say being honest is bad. Truth will always set you free. Right. So I'm just going to tell you all it's not about.
That's where I think making that distinction that telling the truth isn't about getting the facts straight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that maybe has the right facts, you know, and and then there's really, we're not actually being honest because I think the truth and honesty goes deeper than the facts. And it goes deeper. Yeah. We just got to know. I mean, I'm probably everyone's heard of that.
Where if you had seven people, I remember what the study is a ton of people watching a car accident. Mm-hmm. They would all give different reports. And, you know, because we have to realize our brain is actually only capturing these things on. We've watched these really great science shows on this, but how much your brain doesn't actually store. We think it's storing every picture of everything that happened in the last five minutes,
or something of some event, but it actually doesn't. It does actually select certain things, leaving other things out. Our perspective plays into that, our paradigm, and what's happened in our life plays into that. So we just have to hold truth for one person can be different than someone else's truth. And it doesn't mean that one is being disdowndated. Yeah, well, but getting to that point, that's where I would lean that way. And I think a lot of parents do. It's when it
comes to facts, I feel okay. Typically, it's why I think we lean that way. It's easy to go, oh yeah, look at the facts. They line up. I have the same facts as you. Cool. We're telling the truth. Yeah. Where I get into a problem as a dad is feelings just don't seem to fall into that. Right. Right. And I don't think as a kid, I knew a lot of adults who really trusted my feelings. So I didn't trust them either. But it seemed like if I had, if I felt, I'm putting on quotes,
felt something, and they didn't feel the same thing. The facts didn't line up, or they deemed that I shouldn't feel that way. And therefore my feelings were not validated somehow I was being dishonest. And even I do this, I just did this as recently when we were in Disney World back in January, you know, our son Brennan. I came. It was a day I worked that day. I saw a lot of clients over video. You guys were at the Magic Kingdom that day. And I took an Uber over to the Magic Kingdom.
It was actually my birthday. And I was really excited about we were going to have an evening together. Yes. Looking at, yeah, looking at the in the Magic Kingdom, the fireworks were going. We had some fun. We're going to do some rides. And then we're going to do some rides at night, which we hadn't done in the past because the kids were too little. But now the kids are a little older. They could do that.
Well, as soon as I get there, there was some fun. But then Brennan started to cry. And he said he was sick. And I remember just thinking, are you serious? Like, come on. How sick can you be, dude? Yeah, that's right. And I'm just like, why are you ruining my birthday? I mean, like, you see how, like so much, so much judgment about him being dishonest. Like, why would he want to ruin my birthday? I don't know. But in my mind, he did. Yeah. He was ruining my birthday. Just playing it up and
yes. Oh, yeah, you're making a bigger deal. Come on. Make it. So, push through a little so long story short, we eventually we try to get on a ride. He think he can do. We're actually in line to get on the jungle cruise. And then now he's feeling really bad. And I, oh, my gosh, I'm getting so annoyed. I mean, I'm really annoyed for the whole, the whole walk home. I'm probably at like a six or seven at the annoyance level. And I'm just in the whole time. He's like, what is
Brennan's problem? Get over it, dude. Like stop letting. And you got some dough with on the way. I know. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I'm just going to get. I tried to enjoy it somewhat. But I'm telling you, we get to the hotel. The first thing Brennan does, it gets a trash can of vomit all over the place. I mean, obviously in the trash can, I think it's, but he was really sick. Yeah, I had a fever. He had a fever. He was really sick. And then I was like, wow, the truth was different than what
I thought it was. I thought the truth was he was making a bigger deal out of it than what he is. He could really get over this. Stop stop thinking about yourself. Stop being so selfish. Yeah. But I wasn't even willing to be receptive in that moment to his truth that he was sick. And especially somebody, it seems like that's so obvious. I'm not in his body. How would I know a sickie is, right? That seems like an obvious one. Why can't you just accept that? I hope, but
I was resisting it the whole way because his facts weren't backing up with my facts. Our facts were coming at odds. And I, to me, that's all truth was. It was just a bunch of facts. Yeah. That what have you done? Who have you been around? Why would you be sick? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of reasons. He was around a bunch of people. There's no one but, but all those things were happening at the same time. And I think that's what happens with parents is when it comes to
the facts, if they get a line, that's true to them. But as the facts are, that's a lie. And especially when it gets kind of a little harder to grasp, like how the kid is feeling about it or how you were feeling about it. Yeah. It's really hard to use facts to somehow come to a consensus on what the truth is. Yeah. And that's where I think truth can be so hard. And I remember Sarah, you and I were raised at a time in culture. And unless you felt this way, we're just feelings were not as
trusted. Yeah. I found myself doubting the validity or honesty of my feelings and other people's feelings. And I still today struggle with getting out of that space and really just accepting how that person feels and not believing that how they feel has to be the complete truth. But it is part of the truth. Yeah. And so just seeing it as a manipulation. Yeah. Yeah. Or drama being so dramatic or yeah, I think it's I think a lot of times it's feelings because they're not
concrete. You can't sort them out like you were saying with facts. I think facts are hard. Yes. But feelings are even harder because you don't there is always this sort of nagging. Are you are you just saying that do you really feel that or yeah, when we can't understand, especially when we struggle to understand their perspective? Yeah. Well, because it's been so long since we've been a kid or maybe we never faced that situation before. Or we just now have a
different perspective. You know, I mean, there's many times there I've come home and our kids are upset about something. It seems like the end of the world to them. And I've just left a kid who recently been diagnosed with some kind of deadly disease. And so it's hard for me to not judge their feelings and be like, do you know what's happening in other kids? I was gonna say that. There are kids starving exactly. Yes. Yes. So so I can you be full?
So so if we're raising kids who are going to be honest and tell the truth, we're we're creating a culture in our home that's honest and focused on the truth. I think we need to be honest about how there are so many stories informing and guiding how we interact with our kids because many kids that I work with are confused why their parents are making certain decisions or why they're blowing up about certain things. And then when I talk to the parent and they tell me the story, it makes sense.
Like you and I get the luxury of hearing both sides. And and and we go, oh, I can see that makes it, but the kid doesn't know that story. Yeah. So to the kid, the kid isn't actually able to receive what is really true in this moment or what is honest because the parent isn't being more isn't really revealing that to them. Yeah. They're holding back for some reason. So I think the truth, it's important that the truth isn't always just black and white.
There's always layers in depth to it. The truth is like an onion that we are constantly peeling back. And I just think for me, and I hope this helps you listeners, this is a better metaphor to me. You don't have to help you, Sarah, seeing it like that. It helps me be more patient with myself and with my kids knowing that the truth isn't always so easy to see. Yeah. Well, I like the onion idea because I don't know if you've ever had a feeling where I first show that while I'm mad because
of this, this and this. And then as you're chatting with your friend or you're processing through, you're like, well, I mean, I, that is it. But really, it's because this thing happened yesterday, or, or in my childhood, or, you know, you find out there was some deeper meaning to that event that happened. Yeah. Someone else would have a completely different take on it. 100%. But sure. So that's that layers of the onion, just you peel off and this is what we think of the onion
and you take that off and you're like, Oh, it's really this. Oh, you take that off and oh, it's really this. And in relationships, it's that way. And in our personal experience and in our life, there are layers in your children, children have layers too. Yeah. And I think it was so cool about getting to talk to kids about these stories is once you start peeling back those layers, you see it all make sense. I mean, there really is reasons for why they chose what to do. And it wasn't because
they were evil. Right. It really was. They thought that was the best decision. It is. Yeah. And so it's not to say we just go, Oh, when can you ever really know the truth? The point of that conflict and the desire to want to be honest and truthful with each other is the thing that is supposed to drive you towards being more understanding of where the others coming from. I mean, sir, there's so many times the parents said, I, it makes no sense why the kid would lie to me about that.
And then when I talk to the kid, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. And the kids mine, there was no other way to handle that. Yeah. But lighting. That was the best path. Yeah. Yeah. I had to protect you where I had to. Yeah. And then there was interesting. Someone's when a parent is something like, let's just have a truth table where there is nothing that's going to happen to you. Just tell me the truth. The kid is like, I've never had a kid say, no, I don't want them. The kid's like,
that's awesome. Because I know when I tell the truth, Sarah, it feels good. Even though it might be scary, it feels good. And the kid actually doesn't want to be burned with being dishonest with you and not to it. It's a burden to carry. It is. And it actually feels more freeing to be vulnerable and open with you. It feels good. That it feels good. But they, they're always assessing just like you are as the parent, whether or not that risk is worth taking. Yeah. And a lot of times it's not,
you can't blame them. It's not worth taking. And when they explain to me, I can say, I think I would have done the same thing. And even they are sad. Yeah. That they can't be more honest. That they can't share more. But either your reactions have taught them, you can't handle it. Or these certain punishments or these certain things that the you weigh that against risk. And it's just
an intelligent person who would decide not to take that risk. I'll give an example of a kid doesn't want to go to a certain, like maybe not go to church or not go to a certain school thing. And the kid will, the parents will say, like, I don't know why he won't do the tools you've been teaching him and that this, you know, so. And when I talk to the kid, the kid will say, I'm doing the tools. But I feel like all my parents are wanting me to tell them is I want to go and I had a
great time. Yeah. They don't want to hear that I didn't like it. Because, and how do I know that? Because every time I say I didn't like it, they get really mad at me. Yeah. So yeah. That tells me that's not the answer they want. Yeah. You know, so he's like, I don't, are they wanting a truthful relationship with me? Or do they just want me to lie to them to make them feel better? And so some of the kids by the time they're in those preteen teenagers, they have figured out that game.
You know, I have one kid right now who his go to is just he actually just will tell like jokes with his family, his parents. And they will think he's doing better when really he's not doing better at all. But he says, if I'm, if I'm telling jokes and being happy and laughing, they think everything's fine. That's very common. Yeah. That's very common. Because I know the mask. I know the mask. You want me to be on. And I realize it's because sometimes it's like you're worried about me or
you're whatever it might be. And so I'll just wear this mask around you to take care of you. I can't even seem happy with us. If we continue to watch movies and every time we watch the movie, you said you like it, I got mad at you. You might eventually just tell me you like that movie. You're going out to eat and trying new foods. Exactly. So eventually over time, you would learn to kind of fake it to keep peace in that relationship. So that's where I put
here is I'm sure there are many areas in my life. I'm still lying to myself about. You know, there's still places that as I get older, things will be revealed to me that I've deceived myself and deluded myself. Right. And so what I love about like our marriage is you help me see the truth by revealing to me a different perspective. Some way in which you see me that I may not be able to see about myself. Some way that you might perceive my actions in the
way I've never been open to perceiving that. And that's really what I'm hoping to get to with the parents today is I'm wanting to see that's the whole point of the relationship. It isn't just to demand the right facts. Yeah. It is to get to a place in the relationship where our feedback, their feedback to you and your feedback to them will help us get to a place that's not 100% honest, not 100% truth. Because I guess I think that's a long journey to get there. It's a big onion.
But I think it's going to get us to a place where we're closer and closer and closer to that. Yeah, especially with those teenagers that you know, makes you think of those that friend you have maybe who can be brutally honest with you or you can tell them your worst stuff and they can hold it and they can still challenge you. Yeah. And especially in your in those teen years, that's that's kind of the direction you're trying to go because you are going to be stepping
out of this parent role. It's going to be different and trying to move into that we can, you know, we can process through this stuff and we can be honest with each other. Yeah. And that becomes the culture of honesty, right? We want to create these relationships with our kids or we can be receptive to each other's perspectives and stories. And this will help the truth become more
clear. So one quick technique to do that we've been doing probably the past two or three years. And we've mentioned it maybe another podcast was this idea of I just love parents, you know, they'll tell me some story about why they do what they did. Yeah. And then I'll say to them, have you told your kid that story? Yeah. And they'll be like, no, I haven't. So it'll be something, I was scared about them doing that because when I was a kid and I did that, X, Y, Z's happened, they've never
told the kid that story. Yeah. So the kid has no idea why you're acting this way. Yeah. So I say, what's what's keeping you from telling that story? And there's I just never thought it was important to tell. Yeah. Or I thought if I did, maybe somehow I wouldn't be helpful. Yeah. But I think
that is helpful for the kid to know that this is where you're coming from. And you could tell them, hey, listen, this is why I was so scared about the decision you made the other day because when I made that decision, this bad thing happened and I love you and I don't want that to happen to you. And then hopefully that will help them be more open to sharing their stories as well. You know, and I encourage one time they do this there and they said their kid just didn't understand it.
I was telling them it is a new way to explain things. So it will take time to get into the habit of just saying, here's the story I'm telling myself. And then revealing that, right? It's almost like you have open hands and you're just exposing that story to allow the truth to now be seen. Yeah. But you're also giving them the freedom to tell you their story. Yeah. They saw it. Yeah. They said, oh, and it's so I love that because when you do that, then it lets me see I can see your
perspective and people might be hearing your dog barking in the background. She's the truth. She's a little on her right now. And her crate. But anyway, I have this whole thing going in our, you know, whatever is going on. Yeah. Discussion. And then you tell me how you saw that moment and what your story is about that moment. And it informs so much to me. And that's the same thing we do with our children. They can then go,
oh, that's why you had that reaction. Oh, that's why this is important to you. Because it just fills in those holes that we don't know are there. Yeah. It illuminates the truth, I think. Yeah. Because when I was feeling as you were saying it, it puts a light on it and illuminates us and helps us actually look at it and decide what we want to do with it. So I hope this expands your understanding of what it means to raise honest kids because I bet
every one of you listening wants to do that. And how to invite your kids into that kind of honest, truthful relationship. Because I guarantee your kids want it as well. It doesn't feel good to have that distance that not being honest creates. So I hope this helps kind of expand it, give you a different way of looking at it and some techniques to start creating that in your own home. So I hope your summer's going well. And once again, share this podcast. Tell your friends about us.
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