Why This is Easier (and More Profitable) Than an Evergreen Funnel Featuring Dama Jue

This is her second episode on the podcast . The first one was all about her business journey , some pivots that she made along the way to having a business where she makes now from her funnels six figures just from affiliate revenue and that's like a third or less of her annual income . Like impressive business . But she's about to talk to you .

Well , let's hop into the episode and you'll see exactly what she's gonna talk to you about . Is there a simpler , lazy way than evergreen to make more sales and increase like the average amount that somebody spins with you ?

If you're ever with her hoping , or if you thought evergreen funnels were the Holy grail , well , dama's here to tell you they aren't and there's a better way . So let's get into this , dama . Like what is a way to make more money than evergreen funnels , but in a more lazier , easier to do sort of setup ? Like , do tell please . Okay .

To this day it's made me over six figures without ads because , hilariously , when I ran ads to it , what really the ads people the ad , the yes , the cold , the ice cold audience did not love it . The hot , the warmed up audience , or people who had seen me speak , people had met me some other way were like yeah , yeah , I want to learn from this person .

The ads people were like I don't like her face , I don't want to buy it and so it was . Yeah , I have run ads a couple of times to this funnel , and she's beautiful , all by herself , like without running ads . I let her be .

If we were to like just count SKUs the way e-comm does , I have 17 or 20 , something like that . Different five card templates I have currently five or six , with many , many more on the way . Airtable offers I have courses , I have trainings , I have tech tutorials , I have live workshops . I have a lot of offers . I have these fun punchy little $9 offers .

So I have a lot of different offers , like probably 50 . At this point .

That's overwhelming to everyone and I'm not going to create a funnel for all of them , because the unpleasant truth is , and why everybody doesn't have a funnel , is that creating an evergreen funnel in the way that most people think and I'll clarify what I mean by that in the way that most people think is a ton of time work .

You need a lot of strategic prowess , you need to write a lot ofess , you need to write a lot of copy . You need to write conversion copy , which is hard to write . You need to understand the tech , you need to design the pages , the assets , the elements .

Evergreen funnels are a lot of work and that's coming from someone who is living doing it and that's why all the time people are like oh you teach funnels , I need a funnel . And my follow-up question and I don't mean this maliciously , but I truly mean this in the best sense of the way why , what are you selling , right ?

And I , oh , and I literally just asked Guijo this , like five seconds ago Off camera . I literally just roasted Guijo because I was like why , what are you selling ? And my , if you caught my origin story episode , it's all about how am I going to pay red ? How am I going to buy the expensive dog food that my dog requires ?

How am I going to put gas in my tank ? And will a funnel do that ? Will building a funnel for every one of my offers do that ? Will only having one offer and an evergreen funnel for my offer , do that ? Maybe it's different for everybody , but you said you have low , all low ticket offers .

Though the majority of how I pay my rent , how do I buy the expensive dog food , is low ticket offers . So does that mean that low ticket offers is for everybody ? No , that's a whole other episode . I'm going to have to have you back to rail on that . But whenever people tell me I need a funnel , my number one question is not so much do you , but why ?

What do you want to sell more of ? How are you going to pay your rent ? Right , if you're a service provider and you want to get into digital products , that's cool . What are you going to sell ? Because a lot of people get stuck in . I need a funnel , they will . I need to create a course , or I need to create a digital product , and they'll do it .

They'll create that course and then it sits on the digital shelf . They either don't wanna sell , they don't wanna write and write salesy words , they don't wanna write conversion copy , so they don't do the lead gen or actually the active selling that requires that selling that bought , that people buying it requires , right , they don't want to do that .

So it's like , well , I need a funnel . A funnel will do it for me . Yes , but you still have to write the salesy words and you need to set up the tech and you need duplicate pages and a countdown timer . So when I say evergreen funnel , most people think of that . It .

It's an opt-in , so maybe a challenge or a webinar could be a freebie , something like that . And then there's seven to 12 emails that build to a salesy crescendo . There's countdown timers and then this thing happens when this expires and this page , they say click that . And then this triggers that like it can get and it all disappears .

And then it can get quite complicated . So , from a technical perspective , it's a lot of work to set up . It's a lot of assets that you need to create , or you need to pay a funnel builder five figures to do for you . And then a person hears about you oh , I heard of the art of online business podcast . I'm going to go and I'm going to .

They're talking about this thing . You know , during the opening of the show or the closing of the show , I'm going to sign up for it . They go through the funnel and at that time you're talking about , let's say oh , you've tried to run your own ads and you have this 90 minute ads breakthrough session .

I'll set up your ads campaign for you , or I'll diagnose , you know , I'll help you streamline your current setup . 90 minute can blow your mind with it , but they don't have ads yet , they don't have an offer yet .

And the thing with evergreen funnels is , if they go through it once most everybody doesn't set it up so that there's a way for them to go through it once most everybody doesn't set it up so that there's a way for them to go through it again they're marked as a lead who entered the funnel , exited the funnel closed , lost , right .

You lost that sale because they didn't buy and they went through the funnel and because of the magic of countdown timers , they're never going to go through it again . They'll click and it'll redirect , right . So it feels like a missed opportunity to me . I'm not saying I don't have them I still have funnels but I think that big of a effort , that many assets .

I mean for a given , any given funnel you might need 12 to 20 different assets promo graphics , swipe copy emails , follow-up emails , nurture emails oh , you didn't click , or I saw that you clicked and this and that countdown time . You need a lot of assets , you need to several pages and a lot of work there .

It can be too much to do and people get stuck in the I need a funnel and then the . In the meantime , while they're saying I need a funnel , they're still not telling their audience about the offer and telling them to buy it . Well , I promoted it once in February . Nobody bought it , so I'm never going to talk about it again .

We've all done that , right , but like that's the thing is that we need to be reminded about offers and the person who first signed up from your list by listening to a podcast episode in February , didn't have a digital product . Well , it's October . Now they have a digital product . They sold 17 spots in their new course Like that's amazing .

They sold 17 spots in their new course Like that's amazing . Now , what ? Right now , maybe they might want to go through ads . So our where we're at , in our point of time as a lead changes . But with funnels it can be kind of rigid . Well , that person went through the funnel already . They opt in again and it's like oh , you've already received that .

Or it just sends them to the full price page . They can never get the discount or whatever . So or they forgot about it and they click in someone else's funnel and then they buy that person's offer , right ? So my strategy with this is , yes , I still build funnels , but I tend to give people lots and lots and lots of opportunities to buy .

I I was chatting with Pedro before the episode and he likes to send emails that are about like here's the content , here's the latest podcast episode . I send salesy emails because I love to like I can't write a content email and like a value email and it not have a CTA at the end . I can't stop myself .

I write blog posts and I'm like I really need to just hire a content writer , because all I'm doing is writing a sales page here . So , I like to write that that's my funnel background . Most people that doesn't come naturally to them .

So what I like to do , or what I prefer to do instead of having this multi-step complicated I need a chart to map it out kind of funnel is let's just give people lots of opportunities to buy .

Later I'll have mentioned something in that that I'll present them with again . I just keep subtly reminding folks of like hey , when you're ready , I still have this . Do you have this ? You don't have this . You should get this . This is what people are using it for . This is how it's benefiting people . So there is this common trope .

I find that , like people don't want to sound salesy and they don't want to sound repetitive no one knows what you emailed four months ago . Like I don't even know what I emailed four months ago , I don't even remember , and so I don't . I expect that people won't , and if I'm a little repetitive , that's okay , they can unsubscribe , they're welcome to .

If I'm a little repetitive , maybe they're finally hearing it on a day where they're like yeah , okay , maybe I do want that ad intensive , because I tried to run , I bought a $37 thing and I got stuck and I had nowhere to go . So now I'm ready for a 90 minute intensive . Now I'm like you know what ? I see the profit , I see the math .

Now shove me through the funnel one more time , but it's like the funnel is nowhere to be found . So if you have a way that is going to help people pay their rent , help you pay your rent and help people accomplish their goals probably to pay their rent and to buy food and to put gas in their car Right ?

So that's why we have businesses they're not charities . So you need to pay your rent , they need to pay the rent . So you have a solution that will help them and also it helps you pay rent . So be talking about it , stay talking

about it . And I think that once people set up an evergreen funnel , we tend to set it and forget it , because that's what the gurus have taught us Set up your funnel and then , like , forget it it . You know it's like , but as a lead in that , does it feel good ?

Have you ever , like , been on Pinterest and signed up for something and it's like the email never got delivered because the person went out of business , like six years ago ? Like I don't want to be getting emails from the script or whatever you know like this is creepy or it's just , it's like no longer relevant , right , so it doesn't feel good . As a lead .

I like to show up frequently in my business because then people know like hey , I keep my finger on the pulse of things and I'm constantly experimenting and testing and I think that that gives them confidence in my offers because I stay talking about it . Yeah , I recorded , I recorded freebie to flash sale in 2021 . Is it still good ?

Yeah , I recorded , I recorded freebie to flash sale in 2021 . Is it still good ? Yes , I stay talking about it . I sent an email about it on Saturday . Is it still relevant ? Is it still a banging offer ? Yeah , and I'll tell you what . I sent an email about it on Saturday . That was a full price . I didn't even discount it .

It wasn't even like here's a cute coupon code . I was just like here it is . People bought it . You know like a couple of people bought it , did 80% of my list , no , but a good chunk of my list has heard about it . A good chunk of my list already has it .

So I'm kind of like yeah , I'm just going to remind them of how good that is and let them know it's still there and it's still relevant , and I'm still showing up and doing business and I still stand behind this method .

So I think , yes , funnels are great , but it always starts with how are you going to like we're not in business for fun , unless you're like independently wealthy , you got to pay your rent , you got to buy carrot sticks and whatever else you got to buy for groceries . So got to go get a pound of ground beef and some spaghetti or whatever , right .

So like , how are you going to do that ? What in your business is going to pay that bill ? And then think about how can I sell more of that ? So the alternative and this is what feels good for me and that I've taught thousands of students they really love is , instead of I created a new thing , I sold it .

I talked about it till my face turned blue and now I never wanna talk about it again . Okay , you could create a funnel , but what we end up doing is putting create an evergreen funnel on our to-do list , then it never gets done right . Or putting create an evergreen funnel on our to-do list , then it never gets done Right .

Or we'll even join a group program and like this is it ? I'm going to create a funnel and then we lose steam because life catches up or we get sick or something happens . I go on vacation and I kind of lose momentum , whatever . So it it can get left on the to-do list for forever .

But I'll tell you what I can do right away , the minute I closed the cart on a sale . So , for example , I did a training , I don't know 2021 . It's still good . It's still banging . All the things that I taught in it . It's actually like how I got started with building affiliate income as a service provider .

I recorded that in 2022 , all the strategies that I taught I'm still doing because guess freaking what they're still working . So that offer , I could sit down and like write a bunch of emails about it , or I can just throw it on a new product as the order bump .

It takes me so , so just , I don't know how , like I don't want to be too jargony , but basically an order bump is when you're going to buy a thing . Don't want to be too jargony , but basically an order bump is when you're going to buy a thing . Hey , quajo has this $17 Facebook ads checklist .

Okay , cool , I went to buy it and before I entered my name and my email and my credit card info , and before I clicked purchase , there's a little checkbox that says hey , do you want to access you know Quajo's vault of 72 different successful ad creatives with you know an R , a ROAS of 3.2 or higher ?

Yeah , I want to look at that right , I don't even know , hold on a second , let me write that down .

What's their next problem ? Can I give them a low ticket option that I can create in an afternoon that I can then use again and again ? And guess what ? Six months later , kwejo comes out with a scale your membership ads bootcamp and he can throw that same $17 order bump on that . I use Thrivecart as my funnel software .

I can copy it over and in about 30 seconds , reuse that same order bump and just go and now it's collecting 17 bucks on every transaction . I can throw that on a free opt-in sign up for my free challenge . While you're here , Do you want to access the 3.2 row asphalt Boop ? 17 bucks , ding , ding , ding , ding , ding .

And I could have created a funnel and made it $57 and wrote a sales page and wrote emails and like blah , blah , blah . Yeah , I could do that , but I don't want to . I'm busy , I'm lazy . I have better things to do . I could be binging , grazing on me right Like it's . I have something else I'd rather be doing than that .

So what I can do in the moment that I close the cart , like well , that sale ended , that was cool , that went well . Let me just take 20 minutes and identify one or two of my products that I can throw this as an order bump on . You create it once . You write one sentence of copy .

You throw your little mock up on there 20 minutes later done and then you can just copy that to two or three other products , use it down the line . So this night , you know , 60 minute , how I got started with affiliate income training that I did in 2022 . Night , you know , 60 minute , how I got started with affiliate income training that I did in 2022 .

Somebody bought it today as an order bump for $39 . Love it , love to see it . Do I have a funnel for it ? Absolutely not . Like you know , with emails and pop-ups and opt-ins . Nope , absolutely not . But did I make $39 today that I wouldn't have made otherwise ?

Yeah , so that's one option is throw it on an order bump's for lower ticket stuff if you're comfortable selling it , basically like tripwire prices anywhere between 7 and 47 , right , if you're comfortable selling it for that little , throw it on an order bump . If it's something that you normally sell for 497 .

You could wait until you get an evergreen funnel built up and an opt-in and then nurture emails and then this and set up the sequence and do to do and create the tags and clone the pages and la la , la , do all the dance or put that on your to-do list , but also , in the meantime , spend the next 45 minutes turning it into an upsell or an oto .

Somebody bought quajo's 37 , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah . Okay , great . As soon as they click purchase , it takes them to the upsell or the one-time offer , oto , whatever you want to call it , whatever . It's a page that's displayed after they've hit purchase and it's like wait before you go . Do you want to add a 90-minute call with Quajo ?

It's normally $9.97 , but you can grab it for $3.97 . Hey , you didn't have that $400 a minute ago . If they see that , that's a good deal and it's valuable to them and it's useful to them in that moment , that's $400 closer to paying your rent . That's $400 more expensive , kibble or whatever you spend your money on .

You know , like more money and more gas in the tank or whatever . So you could go through all the work of creating an evergreen funnel and I do still do it . But in the meantime , if it's 47 bucks or less , throw it as an order bump on something else . If it's , you know , a hundred bucks , 150 , 200 bucks , 300 bucks , maybe 400 .

If it's under 500 , throw it as an upsell on something . So what I'm hearing ?

Right , so you're already buying this $17 Facebook ad checklist thing Cool . You already wrote a sales page for it . That's great . All I'm asking you now is to write one additional sentence about your ad creative vault or whatever . I'm only asking you to write one sentence of conversion copy .

Well , now that you wrote it , it'd be kind of a shame to just leave it on the order bump . What if the next time you're talking about a client win , you're doing like a testimonial or you know a case study for a client who's running webinar ads with you and you're promoting your agency work ? Ok , cool . Also , you know you might mention we tweaked .

Here's what we did . We tweaked their creative parentheses , stuck on your creative snag my library of 72 different ad creatives from real live working campaigns that have a 3.2 or higher ROAS . One sentence , it's hooky as all get out . It's like Ooh , I want that .

And all you do is link to the checkout page of the other thing , not even as an order month , like here's a little checkout page , right ? Take that one sentence that you wrote . Mention it in emails . I do this all the time . I mention it in my footers of my emails . I mention it in my course footers . Now , this is kind of wild .

I don't see anyone else doing this . You literally bought a thing for me . You're in here learning and then you scroll to the bottom and I'm like here's the tech I'm using affiliate link . Here's this I'm using , here's that . Here's the best library of legal templates and it's only 50 bucks . People click that and buy that based on that link .

That is the footer of every single one of my course lessons regularly . So I list them even in my course footer . I use that sentence as Easter eggs inside of other courses . I just see Kwejo smiling so hard right now .

. people are coming in through the funnel and you're acquiring that new customer , but once they're already there , all of these things that you're saying are just like . It's so true .

It's like , hey , you already have this super valuable thing and now you need this other super valuable thing to be able to implement this or whatever , and it all just ties together and connects , kind of like you mentioned in the previous episode .

But it's something that I just and this is all tying in I'm really excited because another course that I actually just took is talking exactly about all of this and how it works . But it's the the buyer has like a buying frenzy , right Like when they first come in and they want to .

It's like they want to give you their money , and so when you're offering these you know order bumps and upsells and downsells and cross-sells and all the things you're kind of just like continuing to offer them . So they , they literally buy themselves out of their buying frenzy , right .

It's like when they're hot , when they're coming in , they want to give you their money and you're just offering them the things that they need , and some of it is mindset , right Of like can I continue to offer all of these different things , but at the same time , we keep saying this selling is serving , and if it's something that they actually need and it's

helpful to them , then why not right ? and it can double or triple your , your , your profit , from that initial item , right ? So very , very good , love it .

I just reused that thing that I already had as a bump somewhere else because maybe somebody didn't buy it . And now they saw , saw it , and they were like , oh , pay your pals , this is all about creating an affiliate program in Thrive Car . Oh , no , no , no , I don't even have products .

I don't want that Decline the next time they see it and it's like well , I do have digital products now Do I want an affiliate program ? Ooh , but it's only to buy it , right , and I don't see that .

I see it as a service , because I'm not doing you any favors by not telling you what I have and that can help you , especially when , in the online space , so many things can can kind of impact how we learn , whether the person has a private podcast , whether they offer subtitles , their speaking cadence , their accent , their voice , is it scratchy , is it nasally ,

whatever there's so many little things that are vying for our attention . That makes it really easy to not finish a course . So if you find someone who you like , their teaching style , well then , what else you got ? I literally have people tell me that , like , do you have anything on this , do you have anything on that ?

Cause they just they like my style and they want to keep learning from me . So , to me it would be a disservice to not tell them like you have this , can I have you tried that ? You know like , have you seen this ? You know like , I don't think you have this .

I think you need this Right , and I do think that there is a fine line with hitting people over the head with too many offers . So there is , there is a little fine line there . I don't do , cause you'll find that some funnel strategists will say have the main offer , let it be $37 . And then the upsell should be one 97 .

And then if they decline that , hit them with another upsell for 97 . And if they accept that , then hit them with another upsell . So there's like they get presented with a lot of choices . It can be exhausting to have that many options . So I don't frequently have anything more than main offer , order , bump and upsell . I don't really do a lot of downsells .

I'll catch y'all later , like , if you didn't want it , that's okay , I'll catch you later . If you didn't want to pay your pals now you're not ready to create an affiliate program , we'll talk in six months , we'll talk in a year . And there are a lot of my customers are repeat buyers , so it's like okay , well , whatever .

In the back of my mind I know that I was offered this . It's fine , I'll . I'll see it another time and they'll buy something else and then we'll see it , or they'll see it on a black Friday sale or whatever . I tend to not want to hit them with too many options during a funnel because it can feel like I can't get out of this .

So my husband not a funnel guy whatsoever , but bought something health related and totally got sucked into like a bro-y funnel and he could not believe how many times . It was a really scuzzy funnel where it was like you couldn't say yes or no to the upsell until the autoplay video had played . And you couldn't fast forward it , you couldn't skip past it .

You were just forced to watch this guy talk about his like supplements or whatever . And there was . There was the button . They had used css to hide the code until and the video had elapsed , until you'd watched at least two minutes of the video .

And then a button and like very small print , like no , I don't want to 10x my results or no , I don't want to be in my best shape ever , or some bullying crap like that . So , I don't believe in that and that is enough to put me off of buying a person or hiring a person , buying their offers or hiring them , kind of .

For the rest of my life I'll be like Nope , trash X , never buying , nope , you know , I am really careful to treat my customers the way I want to be treated . So I don't do a lot of upsells and downsells and this and that . I just mentioned the thing . It's like do you want it now ? You don't want it now , that's cool , catch you later .

All good , you know , like not a problem , we'll see you in six months for black Friday , not a problem , see you in six months for my business anniversary sale . So I do two sales a year . They can catch me then or they can . I kind of love to surprise people with what's going to be on the upsell on the bump . I change them out frequently .

I'm always testing different things because it takes me like three minutes . So yeah , I'll just swap it out . And once you you know that's the hard part I think it's getting the facility with the tech . But once you have that , you , so that's the hard part , I think it's getting the facility with the tech . But once you have that .

You're like oh okay , I'm good , I'll just swap this out . You know what ? I'm not feeling this anymore . I'm going to swap this out . Or like hmm , conversion rate dropped to 18% .

Don't quote me because it might have been payer pals today , but tomorrow I felt a gentle breeze and I changed it to something else . You know , I like to keep , I like to keep experimenting . So that's kind of a big pillar in my business .

It's like , yeah , I'm going to give people plenty of options , but without hitting them over the head , and I feel like sometimes when you do a seven or 12 email sequence , anyone would get kind of exhausted with that . Here's a regular email and I've got a one sentence about pay your pals , like when you're ready to create your affiliate program .

Here's the hundred . Ok , you know like you click it or you don't . Fine , whatever , there'll be something else in the email for you .

I have this training called low , what is it ? Low impact , high , no , low energy , high impact affiliate programs . It's basically all my strategies of how I motivate my own affiliates to promote my stuff , and when I'm doing a promotion , I love to see my affiliate army like just out there rocking . I love to see it , love to pay them .

And so I've had people say well , how can I learn that ? And I'm like oh , it's called Lehiap , it's called low and back . You know , hi , whatever is this training and it's available as the upsell on , pay your pals and like can I buy it individually ?

No , ma'am , because I'm too lazy to create a checkout for it and I also think that you should have the main product , like it was strategic as the order that I put it in , so no thought to it all right .

. What works best , kartra versus Kajabi , samcart versus ThriveCart ? I get tech questions a lot . Convertkit versus ActiveCampaign versus Drip I hear this a lot . Is Flowdesk good ? Yet no , stop using Flowdesk . Anyway , sorry shots fired . Do you use Flowdesk ?

How does that enroll people in the thing ? How does it all work ? So I recorded this training . It's called my Thrivecart Funnel Flow . Essentially , I use Thrivecart as my funnel software . I run my whole business through it . I take payment through it . Sales pages , checkouts , courses , my affiliate program , all that jazz . It's all in there .

I bought it in 2020 or 2019 . I paid them once and it's been serving my business for many years and many hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue . It's done really well for me . So people always want to know how are you using it . So that's what this is . It's just a mini training . It's a BTS or a behind the scenes training of how do I use it .

What does a funnel in actuality look like ? How does it work ? How do people get on your email list ? How do they get enrolled in the course . What does that look like ? So it basically takes you behind the scenes , and people are always intrigued to see how I have it set up , and so I'm happy to share that .

And if somebody goes and gets this behind the scenes of your longest running successful funnel , where's one more place that they can find you ?

Just got a little encouragement from Kwejo , so I will be doing my YouTube journey and I'm going to be teaching live on YouTube and inviting folks to come and pick my brain . I don't do that very often , but it's happening . It's going to be happening live and it's going to be happening on YouTube , so find me at DhammaJu on YouTube .