¶ The Power of Collaborations in Business
It's extremely important to make sure that the collaborations are doing are a win-win . That doesn't mean that both of you have a big audience . That doesn't mean that there's money involved . Even it just needs to be a win-win . It's really , really , really important to understand what people's values are and to know what is going to incentivize them to say yes .
Jordan , I am super happy to have you on this podcast . I know the listener who doesn't know you yet can hear this little bio and then it's going to really listen to what you have to say about collapse .
But as a multi-seven figure business strategist whose mission is for high-achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue , I understand that a lot more , especially after we talked for the last 30 minutes before we hit record .
But then also on your podcast that's called System Saved Me , where you go behind the scenes like for the successes of business and spotlighting those invisible systems that people have never heard of .
I , listening to your podcast , get the systems part , but then when I look at your Instagram , I've seen so much that makes me just want to title you the collab queen . So my first question is , along with the title of this podcast how do you feel that collabing can blow up an online course creators business .
Yeah , well , you think about , just in general in business , when you are trying to get more sales , trying to get more leads , trying to get more attention , and people tend to go this one-to-one route where they're hoping that this one person responds to a DM shout out , or this one person who is listening to your podcast , and those things are good and fine and
I do those too and it's a very leverageable marketing strategy to actually plop yourself into somebody else's audience of multiple people , many , many people , who are a good fit for your offers . And so I am a big , big fan of leverageable things , because my energy capacity is pretty low and I have to be strategic with my time and with my energy .
So I really believe that if you're wanting to maximize the amount of time that you're marketing , getting in front of other people's audiences is entirely the best way . And two , even with Facebook ads , which I love and I do use , there's a cost to it and with a lot of collaborations , that cost is gone .
So being able to again somewhat be smart financially , depending on where you're at in your business , having collaborations , is a way for you to really jump the trust for people , because if they trust right , they trust you , kwejo , and now I'm here and they're like well , if I trust Kwejo , I also trust Jordan , because you brought me here right and so that trust
is transferred , versus having to nurture and build up that trust on a one-to-one basis through email marketing , through podcasting , through a bunch of different other marketing avenues .
I just wish I really do wish we had recorded what we were talking about before .
Oh , I know , right . Well , and for me , I think that with collaborations , you can get so creative with it . For me , I'm very I mean , not a shocker System . Save Me is the name of my business and my podcast , and so I decided to create an actual system around . Okay , how many collabs is it going to take for me to hit a million dollars in my business ?
And it wasn't because I wanted to shout it from the rooftops that I've made seven figures or anything Like it was a challenge , like I'm one of those people that likes to challenge myself .
So I'm in the middle of a challenge right now 100K . Yeah , you are 100 days to 100K months . And how did you come up with this challenge ? To number one , hit a million dollars , because I feel like a lot of people use that number specifically . But then also , how did you decide to do it through collabs , and this was before you the collab queen .
Did this idea come to you through prayer ?
Yeah , so it definitely was .
Before I was known as the collab queen , People knew that I was collaborative , right , they were like , okay , Jordan's showing up everywhere , but they , they didn't really necessarily know all the ins and outs of it really until 2023 , when I was actually like , yeah , you , you think that I'm not really doing anything , but I'm doing a lot and that's because I'm
doing it in other people's communities
¶ Collaborating to Grow Your Business
. So for the first few years in my business , I was making between like 180 to $220,000 , very lean , doing VIP days . And I then decided to join this group coaching program to help you build a group coaching program , and I had no idea what I was going to do .
But I was like I'm going to sign up for it and I'll figure it out , which was a you know , $24,000 a year . Figure it out . And my husband was like what is happening ? He was gone off the deep end , your free . So is Mariah Cause , as who I learned from .
Oh , your husband .
Oh , my husband Marcus .
Marcus . Okay , marcus , yes , well , we got to thank Marcus because he let you make the $24,000 decision .
Yeah , he and I and I talked to my husband about things that are usually around like maybe like five to 7500 and above . I will have a conversation with my husband , not because he he's not in my business at all , but because I respect him as my husband and I want to make bigger financial decisions together . That's just something that we've discussed so .
So when I went to for $24,000 , I was like I have it right . And also like this is a big deal . And he was like you know you've taken risks , you . You know the direction , generally speaking , that you want to go . So if you feel like this is the best decision , then do it , and it absolutely was .
It was a whirlwind and actually made it double that amount in my first launch a month later , so it was a good decision .
Okay , so outline that you decided the $24,000 group coaching program about how to create a group coaching program , and you also had this really good launch . And I still need to know too how did you come up with that goal though One million through collabing ?
Right . So because that launch went well and that was a group program about VIP days , that first year I didn't focus too much on collabs and got to about 429,000 that year Okay Around double-ish of what I had made previously and I was like there's a faster way , like I need to like expedite this to the million next year .
And so my two focuses were hiring and collaborating , because I knew that if I was collaborating well which I know how to more people are going to be coming to me and I need to make sure my back end was tight . So it was kind of an arbitrary number . If I'm thinking about it , it was more of a gut of like .
I think if I hit 50 collabs , not all of them will pop off , but enough of them will pop off to where then I will make the million Right , because I think , too , everyone thinks every collab is going to , like , you know , just fireworks your business and that's just not the case and that's okay .
Some people are slow burner audiences , some people are , like , you know , quick start . So I determined in January of 2021 , so during the pandemic that I was going to hit the 50 collabs and that was what was going to make the million and that just was . That was like my sole goal .
And so I hit 50 collabs through a bunch of different things like guest podcasting , they're all on Zoom .
Like you know , like I would do some different creative collabs as well , where I would look at , okay , specific types of businesses , like copywriters , for example , we had a pretty strong copywriter's presence in our coaching program , and so I started to reach out to copywriters who had audiences of copywriters and said , hey , like you don't teach VIP days , I do .
Here's some things that I've been able to accomplish with copywriters . Can I do a workshop or a training for your audience in order to have them come and join ? You'll be an affiliate .
You'll make whatever I don't know what , it was $400 per person that joins my program , which is enticing , which again , like I think , is a point that I want to make some time in this , in this discussion around just like incentivizing .
But so I would get to come into these communities and teach and talk about how copywriters , how course readers , how wedding planners , how you know nonprofit consultants , how all sort of coaches , and so I would take this training kind of on tour and tweak it to each of the different groups that I was talking to .
And so that was such a leverageable opportunity because it allowed me to be the sole voice of VIP days , which you know people have connected me to , but it's in a bunch of different . I went wide instead of deep , if that makes sense .
So with one training you , at least in the beginning , collabed by delivering that training to other people's audiences .
Yep .
Nice .
Yeah , and that's the most direct way right to collaborate and to get sales . It's tough to get opportunities like that . It's tough to again enter someone's paid community . I would say that's like the creme de la creme .
If you can , and because I had built so many relationships from the beginning of my business in 2016 until 2021 , when I was doing them , you know I was able to again leverage those relationships that I had built , and so it wasn't .
It didn't have to be this big like pitch conversation situation , like people knew what it was because they had known me and seen me for years . So then , when I had the ass , they're like , well , duh , like , why would I have anybody else come in and talk about VIP days ? It's going to be Jordan .
So that helps , too is building the relationships and connecting with people on a human level , so they know your values , they know you're the real deal and they're like of course , I'm going to have you in my program , right ?
So talk to the listener about what would be like the very first actionable step for them if they want to collab with someone .
Do they have someone in mind or they're just saying collaborate in general ?
Collaborate in general to grow their business .
Yep , all right . We'll start all the way back . So I would say , you know if you're wanting to collaborate . The biggest thing that I've done , which sounds so basic , I connect with people on a human level .
You do , and it's true .
It's like , yeah , I'm just like . Listen , we're human , I drive a 2015 Jeep and I got a kiddo and I got bills to pay . I'm a human and often people want to posture themselves and to pretend or to seem more professional or seem like they have the most legit thing ever .
And while it is important to position yourself well right , I'm not saying just while they come up into people's worlds and people want to do business with people , people want to connect with the human side of you first . They want to learn your values .
They want to learn what's important to you , what's your mission , what you got going on over there before they even are thinking about bringing you into their , into their world .
Like recently , I had a I'm doing this VIP day boot camp right now and a friend of mine who we coached together in a program for a couple of years and then we've just been fans of each other for a while .
We don't talk on a regular basis , but she reached out to me in an inbox , saw what I was doing and was like , hey , like I have accomplished this , this and this . I think that it would benefit you know the boot camp that you're about to do , like you want me to come talk to your people .
I was like yep , and then we created a Google invite and she's coming into my group . You know what I'm saying . So , that is just the nature of starting as a human , and I didn't take it as opportunistic . I didn't take it as anything but her wanting to provide value to my people .
And so when you are able to create those sorts of relationships , then the collaborations come easy . So don't go guns of blazing spray and praying pitches everywhere .
My thing is , like , you know , I'll be on Instagram and I'll respond to people's stories about their dog or like the fact that they're in Lisbon , portugal , and I know where the best chocolate cake in the world is , and so I'm going to send them all the links and I should really have a guide at this point . But that's beside the point .
I will come in and like , be human , like how would I talk to somebody at Whole Foods ? or you know , at my son's baseball games Like those are the ways that again , it sounds basic , but what I'm doing is different than what everybody else is doing , unfortunately .
And you know , I think Kwejo too , you're similar in that way , you know , just natural connector like let's be humans , you know .
I think , okay , natural connector , and I do love meeting people and I think what you're saying about just being human , being clear and upfront about , like , your intention in collaborating and then , you know , finding a way that it's mutual . What I'm picking up is find a way that it's mutually beneficial . Say that way and let's see if we can do this 100% .
¶ Benefits and Opportunities of Collaboration
Another creative collab I would love to share is I just had my first in-person event 116 people here in Dallas , texas .
That is how I first saw you . Yeah , it's because Laura Sprinkle is in a peer mastermind that we met once . I'm trying to get us to meet again . He's awesome . Yeah , I saw you on her stories and then I tapped through and I was like this looks like a really cool event and you look like a really cool person .
And then I don't know how I reached out to you next , but here we are .
Yeah , we are Exactly so . For that event , I had some folks who were coming in and speaking on my stage in like a kind of like eight minute session , and so I'm not a speaker coach I'm not a brilliant speaker by any means but I wanted to give people this opportunity because I have a stage and I love to spotlight my community .
It's way more fun for me to have a stage with other people on it than even myself , oddly enough . So I knew that I wanted to set them up for success and have somebody who was a speaker coach give them some guidance and feel really confident and good . And so I reached out to somebody who's awesome . We had met two years prior at an event .
She stuck in the back of my mind . We touched base here and there , like on Instagram , you know . I reached out to her and said , hey , I have an opportunity , here's how many people most likely will be in the room and virtual , and I would love for these folks to be supported by a speaker coach . And so here's my proposition .
Again , I was very clear and I wasn't like , hey , do you want to collab ? Let me know . Like , please , never , never , do that . If you take one thing away , please , right , because that's putting all that pressure and all of that just weight on somebody else to figure it out and like people have stuff to do .
So I come in I say , hey , I would love if you could give an hour of your time per person . So two 30 minute sessions , one to help them with their idea and the second one to like hear them practice and you give them pointers . I would love for that to happen for every single one of them .
And then , on the flip side , here's what I'll do for you I will take care of your hotel . I obviously you will not buy a ticket . All your meals will be covered .
You're becoming to the VIP dinner and you will be emceeing each one of these people who are speaking on stage , and what that will do is you will have 12 case studies Actually 16 , 16 case studies , literally on my stage of the work that you do . And if somebody enjoys these speakers , then in their mind they're going to be planted Obviously .
I want to work with you as a coach , because I'm seen in real time the fruits of your labor and I know that you're the coach for me and it was a yes .
Well , right , so you've not of that first and then pitched .
Yeah , I connected with her on a human level and then I came in with the pitch . I decided , like she didn't come to me , she had no idea you know what my desires were and stuff . But I reached out to her and laid it out and it was an easy yes for her . She's like yeah , these are exactly the type of people I want to get in front of .
I would love to be a support system for people and it was a great lead gen for her .
Awesome . So clearly you did make it . You did make it to your million dollar goal , and then some through 50 collabs so clearly the leads and sales like that's the tangible benefit that the listener is thinking about right now , and now they have a tangible way to get started .
Ie think about who they want to collab with and how it could benefit both of them and then connect normal and not be pretentious about it . So what are some of the benefits , though , or collaboration outside of leads and sales that you've seen happen in your life and within your business ?
Yeah , there's so many different benefits and obviously the biggest ones that people have are leads and sales , which are great and there's nothing bad about that . We all got to grow our businesses . I want those Right and so , but some other ones have been .
Interestingly , when other people can't make like a speaking engagement or some commitment , I tend to be the person that they suggest to take their place .
So that happened multiple times Really , because they yeah , yeah , like literally , and it's not even like I tell them like oh , I'm looking to speak more necessarily , it's just they saw me speak to their people about , you know , vip days and I'm doing different stuff in business , and that happened for a ConvertKit mastermind .
Somebody else was originally slotted to speak and she couldn't make it happen , and so she reached out to me and said , hey , can I just , can I just suggest you to Nathan , like I was like sure .
Hold on , I think , a little clarification here . You're saying that this happens to you Like outside , like inside of your expert area of expertise , or outside , and people are just like I swung Jordan to speak . Go speak for me .
Some , I would say a little bit of both . So the ConvertKit one was not about VIP days . It was actually about my virtual conferences , about VIP days and the success that I had had with those launches , and so I did like breakdowns in case studies of each one of those , so that one was a little bit different .
But then there was another one in Milwaukee , or again a friend of mine couldn't speak for one reason or another timing schedule , and she's like hey , can I suggest you to go and speak ? And I'm like sure , and that one was more of my expertise . That was around systems at the time .
So that was earlier in my business , but people remember when you've impacted their audience . And so they then can transfer again that trust to somebody else if they can't make it .
And then another benefit is I get asked to be in a lot of offline opportunities , like peer masterminds , like secretive events , retreats , things that people do not post about online , you will never hear about , you will never see . Because again , they recognize that again .
Number one they experienced my collaboration , whether it was through a podcast , whether it was through a training , whether it was through something else , and they know that I am going to contribute . They know that I'm going to come and be myself and show up and provide value as much as I possibly can .
And so people are always like what , how did you get in this room ? Like , how do you even know these people are like . And it's like because when you connect with people on a human level , they know the values that you hold and if whatever they have going on has those same values , you're obviously going to be one of the people that they connect with .
So those are some extra benefits of collaborations in general is the more people who know you , the more people who trust you and brought you in front of their audiences .
Then , like , you want to be able to go deeper with those relationships that you really appreciated and that you saw the value in yourself and so thinking that it's just , oh , it's just a podcast interview or oh , it's just I'm going to speak to their people .
I take that very seriously and so I don't just cash it in , right , I don't just come , show up and then , like that was cool , by . I want to deepen the relationships that I have and while , you know , at some points it gets a little bit like okay , like my connections are a lot and I try to upkeep them as much as possible .
But I would say those benefits are pretty valuable as well , because the rooms that I'm able to be in , the strategies and the relationships I'm able to build are tremendous in those rooms , and so that wouldn't be happening if I hadn't done those initial collaborations .
I agree Only because I had the privilege of hanging out with you for like 30 minutes before and I was thinking , as a person who loves and thrives like off of meeting people , I'm just like I need to be in more masterminds .
I mean , you put that on your Instagram story and I kind of raised my hand and said here , because it's like my goal to actually be around people Like I don't do well , stuck here behind the screen , and I say that on purpose stuck here behind the screen , like I know we all survived through the pandemic , but it's just I miss that about being in like an
office with people . It's just the people part . So you're saying how many opportunities collaborating has afforded you to be in masterminds and offline events . I really want to know what secretive events are , but I think for the because of this podcast , the leaks that we have left , which is not much , I'm going to have to wait . Can you give me what I do ?
What is what secretive event ? What idea ? You don't have to say any names .
Well , yeah , yeah , yeah . So it's like , um , like someone wants to bring a bunch of people to their beach house , right , and so they'll just invite you to come and connect for three or four days at their beach house , which again is not a like oh , $5,000 , pay me to come and be , you know , here with me . It's just like I respect you .
I want you in the room . Let's all hang out my beach house and talk about business and do life .
Wow , I want to be there . Um , okay , all right , I'm not going to take us down that rabbit trail . Well , we're not going down it . You said that you would bring this up . I want to make sure before we finish , because I took a note . It said ask Jordan about incentivizing and incentivizing .
You talked about it a bit , yes , Thank you for , yeah , rallying that back out , because it's extremely important to make sure that the collaborations you're doing are a win-win , and that doesn't mean that both of you have a big audience . That doesn't mean that there's money involved , even it just needs to be a win-win .
And it's tough because , again , as someone who's a collaborator , I also do have to run a business , like , I have promotional slots , you know , throughout each month , and when they're gone , they're gone .
And also those slots are generally for , again , things that are directly related to my audience , that they've been asking me for or they are for sometimes , like longer term relationships or partnerships that that I establish .
¶ Tips for Collaborating and Incentivizing Partnerships
And so I will say again when somebody comes to me and says , hey , I have this $9 offer , it's a 50% split . I can't do that , like , I don't care if it's the most aligned offer , it's not going to make sense for my promotional calendar because I will go hard right , I will be 100% present and only talking about your offer .
So if I'm going to spend however many emails , social media , to make $5 , I would rather go and sell the thing . That's 2K or 5K for me and I get to keep all of that . And so it's really , really , really important to understand what people's values are and to know what is going to incentivize them to say yes , and again , with money .
I would rather just like share it on social media and not even worry about the $5 than have a 50% affiliate split for something like that . You know , like that's just kind of my thing .
And so instead of pitching like let's do this whole campaign for this $10 , $9 thing , like , instead being like hey , do you just want to do like an Instagram live for 20 minutes or do you just want to do a collab reel and share to your audience ? That would make more sense specifically for me .
But I think across the board , what you know the conversations I'm having is like the pitches are not enticing , they aren't incentivizing , they don't make somebody say I want to give up this promotional spot that I could be making bank on for this right . So it has to either be very , very much tied to a mission that the person is attached to .
So sometimes I will do things that are centered around burnout or chronic fatigue , that I'm not necessarily making money on , but because it's very , very close to me and how I operate and things that are important to me , I will say yes to those things .
But if it's not something that's tied to my mission or it's not something that I can't make extremely direct ROI from , then it's going to be tough for me to say yes to those promotional opportunities . And that's too with like bundles and summits and those things are awesome and fun and I've had my times where I'm like I'm not doing any of them .
And I have times where I do have space for them because I know that's it doesn't bring me sales , sometimes brings me leads and it's a very competitive collaboration where you're fighting against time with all these other people , versus like a conference or something at one person speaking at a time .
Or I'm doing a training in your program and it's just me talking , or I'm just talking to you , kwejo , for this guest podcast . There's not all this competition and so , again , for me I've had to have my times where I'm not doing any summits or bundles , because it doesn't make sense for me in my business . I have team members to pay for .
I have my own life to pay for and I can't just say yes to every single opportunity . So the incentivizing is around really thinking about if someone's going to give up the opportunity to sell their own thing or something about their mission , like would they say yes to this ? And a lot of times , yeah , money talks right .
And also , again , if you have other people who can vouch for you , that also helps . But the incentivizing , I think , is something a lot of people need to work on because , especially when you have an audience , a platform , you have to think about those things .
This is very , very , very practical advice . Have you seen I'm going to stop asking questions after this one , I promise ? Have you seen an amount that makes sense at a certain price point to incentivize somebody with Do a collaboration ?
I will say , the closer to the mission or the direction of that person , the less money they are willing to do , oddly enough , if it's further away .
So like , for example , if someone's like I have a website template for VIP day business owners , I would be more willing to take less of a cut of that because it's literally directly in line with what my people want .
But if you're talking about I'm a general business coach with a general business program , I need to take a bigger cut of that because , number one , it's going to take me a lot more time to like figure out how to make that work for my people .
How to message it Right how to message it , how to market it .
There's literally just got to be a lot more to it . So that's what I mean by closer to the target or closer to the person's mission and focus . You can kind of get away with a little bit less If it's further away . It's just going to take a lot more on my end to make that work , and so , therefore , I would look for a bigger cut .
Gotcha Okay . My random brain is just remembering when everybody had those mattress ads on their podcast . I'm just like what are those mattress companies pulling out ?
They are like sleep and entrepreneurship .
Apparently , I don't know , I'm like it's oh man , because I know the listener has a lot more questions . How can somebody please tell me you have a collaboration guide or , if not , that maybe you'll be making one ? But otherwise , how could somebody get in touch with you and learn more about the nitty-gritty of collaborating from the collaboration queen ?
Yes , yes . So I would say the best thing is I have a private podcast . It's 10 episodes , it's cool , and I just shared basically the journey of going after those 50 collabs and hitting the million dollars . I talk about the collaborations I said yes to .
I talk about the collaborations I said no to and why I talk about my different strategies that I use all that fun stuff and so you can go to just systemsavingcom slash collabcast and you can find it there .
Systemsavedmecom forward slash collab with two else cats . Yeah , because I'm typing it right now , but I will put that in the description in the show notes below . Final piece of encouragement you want to give to an online course creator who just needs that nudge off of their office seat to get out there and virtually start collabing .
Yeah , I think that having the mentality that people want to do this , like it's not a burden to somebody to want to collaborate with you , I think people get really nervous and think that people's default is no and , depending on how big of a name they are , maybe their default is no .
However , I would say , more times than not , it actually would surprise you how often people do want to do more collaborations .
They want to bring really amazing experts who again don't even teach what they teach to their communities , to their podcast listeners , to their memberships , and to not count yourself out before you even try and to give yourself permission to again start as a human , like I said at the very beginning , where when you're driving with somebody , it's just like naturally
going to happen , like , oh , I want to bring you to my group or my community or invite you to the beach house or whatever the case is , and so if you're not having those just continuous conversations whether it's through Instagram DMs , like I do , or LinkedIn or whatever just connecting with people and not counting yourself out before the opportunities happen or
present themselves .
So I say collaboration should be fun , they should feel like , they should be like you know this thing , that's that is exciting , and instead I know that it can be really scary because it's this whole like oh , I got to pitch myself and again show up , kind of postured , have some fun , connect with people and realize that people do want to collaborate , like it
is something that people are very , very interested in and it's an opportunity for both of you . It's a win-win , and who doesn't want that ?
Absolutely . I am so glad that you got well , that you said yes to speaking on this episode .
I think maybe I mentioned it in the DMs , but hearing , just finding out about someone like you who is making a living helping people collaborate with each other inspired me because in my previous business venture the one that got destroyed by the pandemic I loved collabing , like I maybe did it over 50 times and like it was so fun reaching out to people and being
like hey , I speak Chinese , you have a blog about living in China , let's collaborate
¶ Growing Online Coaching Industry With Collaborations
. And I did that so many times and it grew the social media presence . Like I didn't have anything to sell at the beginning of that business , but it didn't grow the social media presence .
And so when I saw you and then I realized could this be a thing for like the online coaching space , the online course creator space , the online membership space among various creators , I just got excited because something as a in me , as a people person , just loves that sort of thing .
So thank you for sharing and I hope for the listener that what Jordan shared with you motivates you to just reach out to somebody who you want to collab with and go for it Totally . I think we're going to end there until the next episode . Be blessed , and we'll see you in the next one .