Getting less than 100 downloads per episode? DO THIS. Featuring Justin Schenck

Well , you already saw the title , but if you're part of the 80% of podcast hosts that are getting fewer than 100 downloads per episode , you're going to want to listen in , because Justin has taught so many people how to grow their podcasts and he has had a heck of a time , a wonderful story growing his which you can listen to in the previous episode , by the

way , that link is in the show notes below . But when I first heard him say that growing is not about directly marketing your podcast , but it's actually about building a brand and that's what's going to grow , I was like we got to talk about this on the episode . Who is he and why should you listen ?

Justin Shank is an entrepreneur , a speaker and the host of the top rated podcast , the Growth Now Movement . He's been named a top eight podcaster to follow by Inc Magazine . He's featured in Thrive Global and chosen as I should say . He has been featured in Thrive Global and he's been chosen as an icon of influence in the new media space .

His podcast has grown to become a podcast that is currently getting played in over 100 countries every single week and he's gone on to help countless people grow their brands and business with his company , podbrandio . He's also the host and creator of one of the go-to events for entrepreneurs and forward thinkers called Growth Now Summit Live .

Justin , what did you say that event is for ? That was so cool at the end of the last episode .

I'm a disney person like . I love disney world and I realized that a couple things how you look at things differently as an adult versus a kid right , I still love wrestling .

I think it's wild that half the world makes fun of it , but it's a multi , multi-billion dollar organization , right , and it's because they entertain , and so I take some wrestling elements not the actual wrestling part , but the entertainment part of wrestling and I put it into my event .

I also love Disney now because of how they create magic , how they can literally do all these things in their parks and how , like you know , for instance , the first time we took the kids to disney , we were walking from mexico into china , right , and we're literally walking through and we really crossed okay in epcot , yeah , so we're literally walking from mexico

into china and the sounds and the smells and everything changes in an instant . I was showing it to my stepson as we were doing it and like those little nuances , right . So how can I take those types of experiences and put it into an event for entrepreneurs so people aren't bored , right ? I'm super ADD .

Like I do not want to sit there and listen to hour long keynotes . That is not my jam , and so I literally create an experience for people to show up and learn from individuals and have a great time doing it . So the whole day-long rock concert I don't know where it started or where it came from .

I started saying it back in 2019 , and it stuck , and so here we are .

I've been podcasting for almost nine years and that statistic has been true since I started . That has always been a stat in the podcast world .

Another crazy statistic in podcasting is 78% of shows do not make it past their first seven episodes seven which seven , 78 , because because here's the thing people and I I love setting expectations correctly for anybody who wants to start a podcast the 80 rule doing less than 100 downloads .

People think they're going to release a show and thousands of people are just going to find it automatically and start listening and they're going to be the biggest podcast in the world . You are now competing , compared to nine years ago .

You're now competing with celebrities , the world's biggest comedians , everybody's got a podcast , right , and so now you're competing with these people that they've consumed their whole entire life and love . Now they gotta not only listen to them , but then also just randomly find your podcast and start listening .

So the real statistic in podcasting is can you stick it out long enough in order to enjoy the human connection that you're making ? Right ? So to think about a podcast as a part of your brand , right ? You're building a platform because you're taking those clips . You're posting it on social media . Now I don't have to think about what I'm posting on social media .

My podcast already takes care of that for me , right ? That helps you get seen by more people . There's a lot more people on Instagram than people that listen to podcasts . I think this may be a dated statistic .

There might be more now , but I think it's like 25% of Americans listen to podcasts on a monthly basis , which means only 25% of Americans are listening to at least one episode a month . Right , like so . So again , keep that in mind as you then put this content on social media . Now , all of a sudden , you're reaching a lot more people on social media .

People go , oh , like , there's a ton of people who've never listened to an episode of my show , but they know who I've interviewed , they know the types of conversations I have , they know who I am , they know what I do because I post on social media and so that reaches so much bigger at times , right , I just posted a clip with Kurt Angle and it has like

75,000 views or something . Right , so your reach can be so much bigger . And then the next piece is you could also look at your podcast , and I know I'm saying a lot . We can break it down a ton if you want the second way to look at a podcast . It is the greatest networking tool of all time . You can literally sit down with anybody you want to .

With enough persistence and asking the right way to get people on your show , you can literally sit down with anybody you want to and you get to pick their brain . I've had people on my show who charged no joke $10,000 an hour to get coached by them . I sat down with them for free and picked their brain for an hour .

Right , it is literally the greatest networking tool in the world and that also helps you continue to build your platform . Right , like the fact that I've had people like Burt Kreischer and Gabby Bernstein and JP Sears and Ed Milet and all these people on my show . That raises my profile . That means I can now charge more to speak .

I can now have connections where people come into a mastermind and I have a lot of the guests on my show teach my mastermind every month and so utilizing all of that and building strong relationships that in itself has changed my life . My show does well .

I'm over 3 million downloads over the life of my show , but if I were to say what was has been the game changer for me , it's the . It's the relationships I've built with the people that I've interviewed . That's the thing that really has moved the needle for me more than anything else .

How did you start out , or how did you even , I guess , have the courage to go after some of these people that you wanted to interview ?

yeah .

And so I would just ask , and I've reached out through it's literally every single social media platform that you that's out there other than these new ones like Lemonade and all these other things . I've reached out on different platforms to every single person , like the comedian drew lynch , who you may know he was on america's got talent .

He's the , the comedian with a stutter . Um , hey , I reached out to him on facebook and he got back to me . He goes yeah , email my assistant , we'll , we'll get it scheduled . Yeah , it's , it's . It's just like that , right , instagram's big .

You just message people , follow up is huge , because a lot of times you get slotted in and you're going to get hidden in a lot of things , and so I usually wait two to three days and I just say , hey , just wanted to follow up on this message .

And so once you get there right , and you start to get in that world , people will start to introduce you to other people , as long as you're a good interviewer , as long as you build rapport , as long as you build that relationship . And I think the greatest example is I had a guy on . So backtrack .

I went to an event years ago and one of the speakers was a guy named Fabio Viviani . I'm not a reality TV person , but he was he was on the show top chef . I was like who cares about a chef Like I ? Why should I care about the speaker ?

And one thing that I do that I stole from this event is this event did not tell you what speaker was speaking when , and so , like I don't tell , like if you get the schedule to my event , it doesn't say what speaker is speaking when , because you don't know what you're going to miss if you , if you go , oh , I don't want to see that speaker .

And this is this is why , because I saw him speak , I was blown away . I loved , I loved his approach on stage , I loved his authenticity . And I remember at this event I turned to my friend who was with me and I said I need to be friends with that guy . So fast forward .

I had a guy on my show named PJ , and I realized that his book , the Forward , was written by Fabio . And so , after the interview with PJ , I go hey man , I don't normally do this , but I noticed Fabio wrote the Forward to your book . I saw him speak at an event . I would love to interview him .

And he goes oh , he's my best friend , I'll do whatever I tell him to do . It's like great . So Fabio comes on the show and I can say that he came on the show . He was amazing . He spoke at my event in 2019 as one of the keynotes . He's one of my good friends now because of this connection . But what Fabio did changed the game for me .

He goes who do you want to interview ? I go , I was so caught off guard I couldn't even name anybody . He goes , I'll introduce you to people . So he ended up introducing me to 50 people , including the guys from Impractical Jokers . He introduced me to Andy Frisella . He introduced me to people from Real Housewives of New Jersey who have become friends of mine .

He introduced me to 50 people in 50 individual emails and that changed the game for me .

And the reason why is because he knew I was also already pretty well connected , because I was already getting big names on the show and he was launching an app that ultimately failed , unfortunately named Doppel , and he wanted more people to sign up , more influencers to sign up for Doppel , and so I , in turn , introduced him to probably 40 or 50 people that I

knew , and so that really changed the game . And then one thing led to another , led to another . Like what ? For instance , like people , people love the fact that the comedian Bert Kreischer has been on my show because you know he's now . He's huge .

How I got Bert was Fabio introduced me to a comedian named Zane Lamprey , who used to host a show called three sheets . Zane goes hey , do you want to interview Bert Kreischer ? After I interviewed him , he's like you . Zane goes hey , do you want to interview burke kreischer ? After I interviewed him , he's like you're really good at this .

Do you want to interview burke kreischer ? I was like I would love to .

So then burke came on the show , and so what happens is , once you get into that network , as long as you handle that relationship with respect , it becomes so much more like I could probably reach out to fabio today and be like hey , man , I'm trying to get some more bigger names on the show . Can you introduce me to more people ?

And he would , because we've built that relationship , but I still cold outreach . I'm trying to get the medium , tyler Henry , on the show , which I've cold outreach multiple times and I still haven't heard back . But I'll continue to try because I think it'll be a fascinating conversation .

And so , yeah , I think it's all about the ask and the ignorance of thinking that you can interview anybody you want .

So how can I give back ? I can give back by sharing my journey on this guy's podcast , and I think that line has really helped me land bigger names on the show .

He's a sponsorship coach , just came out with a book called Sponsored Magnet . Has tons of experience teaching folks how to build their dream brand partnerships like , highly recommend you listen to that episode and if you want the , I can give that one to you .

It looks like they made it like in MS paint , like that thing , back in the day . It's just , it's just true right . And it's just the reality . So you have to show up professionally . If your show looks like crap , you're not going to have bigger names on your show .

So branding is probably the most important part to building your platform , because if you don't have the right branding , you're never going to get the guests that you'd want . Right , and it's really about when you get those guests right . You build a platform through your brand . You position yourself with the right guests on your show .

That will lead to opportunity of partnership , and I look at partnership in a number of different ways . Right , it could be ads on your . It could be ad revenue on your show . It could be partnerships in businesses . It could be partnerships in whatever right , but I look at everything that I do as like really building . What I'm doing is building community .

Right , when I look at my mastermind or look at my live events , it's really about bringing people together and building community . The amount of downloads on my show don't matter . It doesn't .

Right , like I could have three people listen to every single show and I'd still have all these businesses because I was able to build a platform that people respect , even if they don't listen . I built a platform that people respect and I was able to build , you know , partnerships with people that have given me an opportunity .

People worry too much about the amount of people that listen . Right , I say 80% do less than 100 downloads . I go , okay , great . Say you're close to 100 . Say it's 90 downloads an episode . If you had a room full of 90 people every single week to talk to , would you show up ? Thank you , without a doubt .

Like people are so caught up in these fake numbers , I actually saw a post recently , uh , and it was talking to podcasters and it was literally different photos of , like , what a hundred people look like standing together , what a thousand .

And I was , like , people get so because of all the , by the way , the biggest influencers in the world I won't call anybody out because this is being recorded . We could talk afterwards . They buy their followers . They don't really true , yeah , they don't even really have that many followers , right , like ?

And the funny thing is you'll notice , like , if let's take instagram for an example , the first , the first marker of your , your big on on instagram it's 10 000 people . I don't even have that many , you know , 10 000 people and all of a sudden , every influencer hit 10,000 . I'm like what ? What's going on here .

And then it was a hundred and they all hit a hundred . And then it was a million and they all hit a million . And I was like what , what is going on here ? Follow ? I don't care if there's three people listening or a hundred people listening or a thousand people listening .

You can literally build a business off of the back of the branding of a podcast if you do it the right way . And most people miss the mark on that and they give up too soon . 78% don't make it past their first seven episodes .

Well , if you did it for a year and you were able to continuously show up with that brand in people's faces and it's your face , a talking head on social media people are going to pay attention , even if they don't click download , because not everybody listens to podcasts . That's just the reality . But everybody's on instagram ,

like . I just watched mark zuckerberg on rogan's podcast the other day . He said something like every single day , something like 3.3 billion people use facebook every day . Like okay , great , you should be putting content on there and you can build a brand . It doesn't matter if they listen to your podcast or not right .

You know , my show releases every tuesday and I was like , okay , great , that means somebody's going to the gym every tuesday and they're choosing to listen to my podcast over somebody else . If I don't show up , they're going to find another podcast chances are it's better than my show and they're not coming back .

So I'm going to show up every tuesday , all right , and I was , and I was so I was so worried that that that's what would happen that I was like , okay , I'm showing up every Tuesday , no matter what I'm putting out a show . And then I decided I was just burnt out and I was like I need a break , I need to reset the excitement to the show .

And I was like I'm taking off the month of December , I'm enjoying my family , the holidays , all the things . And what I noticed was that month I did the same amount of downloads that I did the previous month without releasing a new episode . And essentially what I did , I said hey , hey guys , I'm taking off the month of December .

This will be the last episode for the year . This will be a great time for you to go back and catch up on episodes you miss , because I know when I release content every single week , it's a lot . So I did . I did the same amount of downloads in December and took a huge leap forward in January because I was releasing new content .

People were also getting hooked into listening to old episodes and I was like , oh cool , there's a different thought process . But I couldn't have done that if I wasn't consistent for five plus years of showing up every single Tuesday .

I've been throwing around this idea of taking the number of shows that we do weekly , which is now three , and reducing it to one . One lady said you know what , kwejo , that could be a good thing , because I feel like I'm falling so behind in all the podcasts that I want to listen to and then I feel bad because I'm behind .

I'm like I had never thought that like someone as a listener would feel bad because they can't keep up with the pace , and so I think what you're saying there it's kind of verifying some things I've been thinking on . You're at one a week one .

And so they were like five to 15 minutes long and it was like a lesson I learned or whatever . And honestly I'll say this I did that probably for longer than a year . I would do every Friday I would release these short little things . They did really really well . I should bring it back .

They did really really well and that's actually what positioned me more as a thought leader another word thrown around , putting in quotes . Thought leader , because before I was just a really good interviewer and then when I started to share my own antidotes , my own lessons and my own thought processes , that's when people started to follow me more .

I realized what what was happening was . My guests would be like , dude , your audience is great , they're reaching . I'm like nobody's reaching out to me , like I'm glad they're reaching out to you because you were a guest on my show , but who are you talking about ? Right ?

And so when I started to do those solo episodes , that's when I started to hear from my audience . So I was giving them more of myself . So what I do solo episode and it's just me , just to mix it up and and let people know that I still have thoughts of my own and so yeah , but I would say that you will absolutely see .

You won't see a spike in monthly downloads because you're you're still dropping your episodes , but you will see an uptick in the amount of listeners per episode if you dial it back to one a week yeah , you know it .

What if I had each episode be a topic and then invited two to three extra experts on that topic and we just had a talk , like I've done ? I just like people . It plays to my strength of like finding people and we've done it separately , and those episodes have just been gold .

I was like let me do some quick research on my previous , you know , downloads on those episodes and just I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with it .

unique . I would say we'll have a little coaching session here . I would say , just to not alienate the audience that you already have , I would stick to this format , but every other episode , do the . So that way you know , and I would say , like , who do you really want to get to know deeper and do them on the solo episodes .

And then people that you've already kind of you know a little bit more about them and you know they could work together , well , do the groups with them . That's just my two cents on that .

The folks we really want to get to know Listen . I know that both of us are busy in a matter of moments , so I want to give us time to take a break . What is the one thing ? And we'll end here the one thing that if somebody was listening to this episode with you casually- what's the one thing you want them to walk away with .

Which means , if you are the person since we've been talking about podcasting , which means if you're the person who have said for years I want to start a podcast , think about how far you would have came if you just took the action years ago , versus still sitting there going oh , I should start the podcast . So start , just start , Just start .

Don't allow judgment or the fear of failure to stop you from taking that action . It can be scary to put yourself out there on the Internet and share your journey and all the things , but I welcome people to embrace that fear and start today instead of five years from now . Going man , I really wish I started five years ago .