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People always come up with, even if they make them up, issues to justify their position or what they... what they do. And we learned that at a very young age. My oldest daughter, Blair, back when she was two, she figured out she could get away with just about anything by saying, but daddy, I'm scared.
I'm like, oh, baby, don't be scared. Daddy's here and he'll take care of all of it for you. And she got away with that for six months until finally she said it about wearing pants. And I was like... Dang, I just got mediated. Welcome to the Art of Charm podcast, where we break down the science of powerful communication and winning mindsets so you have the cheat code to succeed with people. Every episode is jam-packed with actionable steps to unlock the hidden superpowers inside of you.
Level up with us each week by listening to interviews with the best in business, psychology, and relationships. We distill thousands of hours of research in the most effective tools and the latest science so you can start winning today. Let's face it, in order to be seen and heard, your communication needs to cut through the noise. And we're going to show you how.
I'm AJ, successfully recovered introvert, entrepreneur, and self-development junkie. And I'm Johnny Zubak, former touring musician, promoter, rock and roller, and co-founder here at The Art of Charm. And for the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of top performers. and teams from every background. We have dedicated our lives to teaching men and women all they need to know about communication networking and relationships. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary.
All right, let's kick off today's show. Today we're talking with renowned conflict expert, Dr. Jim Gwynn. Are you ready to step into conflict and manage it like a boss? Jim is the president of the Resolution Resource Group. a training and development company that works with Fortune 500 companies, governments, and many others on effectively handling conflict. He's the co-author of How to Get Along with Anyone, the playbook for predicting and preventing conflict at work at home.
and it comes out February 18th this year. Jim joins us to break down three types of conflict and how to manage them effectively. We discuss the four go-to conflict styles and how to identify yours. Andy shares the domino technique to resolve conflict with even the most aggressive people. Welcome to the show, Jim. It's great to have you. Hey, thanks for having me. I know Johnny and I are really curious, what was the impetus for the book and how did you get started really?
thinking critically about conflict. So I'm a little crazy, a little weird. I get told I'm a mixture of Ted Lasso and Chris Trager from Parks and Rec. And my passion in life is conflict resolution. Got into it doing mediations, so wild family divorce mediations as well as corporate, kind of going around and dealing with conflict on the back end once it had escalated and once things.
went wild and wanted to really kind of get focused on the front end, how to help people resolve conflict before they have to come see me in mediation. Well, I know Johnny and I have gone through mediation and not a fan necessarily of the result, but certainly understand the process. But for those in our audience who aren't super familiar with mediation, can you break down just a general walkthrough of what that looks like?
Mediation, I always tell people, if they're bringing you in to mediate it, then they can't resolve the conflict themselves or they don't want to. So on the family side of things, this has maybe escalated to the point of... a divorce or some issues you know with breaking up wills and things in the family but you're headed for And mediation is kind of that last stop. In the corporate sense, it's when, whether it's with an organization or it's separate, it's once that is completely.
Bridges are burnt. Bridges are burnt. So my job is to help make an amicable split or maybe potentially build those bridges back. I know for us going through the experience, obviously, emotions are definitely high. You have results that you're looking to get and you've tried numerous ways to resolve it peacefully, amicably, as you state.
And what we found interesting is, you know, we were basically in a room with the mediator bouncing between the two parties to alleviate a lot of the emotional stress to try to get to resolve the deeper issues that are leading to the impasse.
So is that the typical experience of a mediation? And are you bouncing between rooms in those scenarios? That is. If things are going well, it may have to spend a little more time in some rooms versus others. But typically it's taking... things people are saying and what their issues are, reframing those and presenting it to the other side since they're not able to talk amongst themselves without fighting or in some cases, literally fighting.
Oh, yeah, we definitely understood the emotions were high. So as we start to unpack conflict, you know, what's going on behind the scenes? I know for many of us, when we're experiencing conflict, we can only really feel the emotions and then it becomes very difficult to get to the reasoning. The biggest thing is emotion and reason don't play well in the brain at the same time. And so typically when...
When people are in conflict, that emotion spiked and they're not going to be thinking not going to be thinking rational. And so most of the time we spend so much time trying to, as you said. in that mediation stage, lower that emotion to get people thinking rationally. But a lot of times what it leads to is people are trying to fix things and solve issues that aren't really at its core what the conflict's about.
And you write in the book that difficult people are not so difficult once you understand their conflict styles. So what are the biggest misconceptions that people have around conflict? And what are these styles that we should be aware of? I think the biggest kind of disclaimer is so many people, myself included, when they're in conflict, they want to jump to use a set specific style or a set specific technique.
And 99 times out of 100, that's going to backfire if you're using it with another style. And so really the goal in the book and the goal with kind of our trainings and methodology is... You got to assess what somebody's style is first because there's very specific practical techniques that are going to work with some styles versus versus others. And so kind of the biggest message is.
Hey, slow down, figure out what style that person is before we jump in trying to fix conflict. Jim, what are some of the indicators that lead you to understand some of these different conflict resolution styles? One of the biggest indicators is how people communicate and how they like to be communicated with. So, for example, the avoider profile, which is one of our...
one of our core five styles. People think naturally that that's because they avoid conflict, because they're scared of it, because they're afraid of it. That's kind of that misconception. It's not. It's really that they truly... don't want to be bothered unless they feel like it's a conflict that they really have to deal with. So, for example, once they're what we call triggered, once that emotion has risen,
they do want to resolve a conflict right away. And so they do not appreciate small talk. They don't appreciate chit chat. When they're in the midst of a conflict, they've got to the point where they are sitting down. They want to be dealt with quickly and directly versus some of the other styles. It's the opposite. If you come in and you want to get down to the heart of the matter and you want to resolve that conflict, it's going to backfire on you.
And looking at those communication patterns, are you just referencing when we're actually in conflict or can you pick up on these styles before the conflict actually happens? Definitely pick up on it before. And that's really one of our biggest messages is.
identify what styles people are and that way you can can actually predict and prevent conflict before it even even begins so being when it comes to how you communicate with certain people or placing them in certain situations that you can start to see and read the tea leaves of, oh man, yeah, me and AJ are going to, we're going to have a conflict about this situation if I structure it, if I structure it this way.
So let's walk through those styles then, avoider being one of them, just so we can start to identify, maybe even self-identify for audience members, what style they have. The big five, the first being avoider. And as we said, that's not to name the avoider because they're scared of conflict. They're afraid of it. These are people that weigh everything as an opportunity cost when it comes to conflict.
not going to be involved in what they deem to be petty or small insignificant uh conflicts or or drama um they're going to wait uh one of the negative Negative components of this is that they may let conflict fester until it becomes an actual dispute and kind of raises up on that. But one of their benefits is they don't get burned out. They're not going to take small conflicts.
and make them make them big um and one of the biggest biggest defining characteristics of them like we said is once they are triggered once they actually are in a conflict They need to be dealt with a very specific way. We need to get to the heart of the matter. We'll probably talk about this a little bit later, but utilizing what we call the domino technique with them on this. The second style that most people associate with conflict is the competitor. That is someone who...
If they have an issue with you, you're going to know it. They're going to tell you. They're going to tell you right away. This is my problem with you. This is what I think we should do about it. And let's resolve this. right now. So I know everybody has somebody in their family or in their life that is a competitor. And if you can't think of one, then it's...
We tell people it's probably you that are the are the competitors. So, you know, amazing. Sometimes competitors can get a bad rap as being intense or coming across as making conflicts grow. Honestly, amazing style when it comes to resolving conflict is with certain groups and certain people and certain conflicts. You don't want to mess around. You need to be blunt, direct, to the point. and nail down on a specific issue.
The next one is the analyzer. That is someone who will not be rushed. That is someone who is going to gather all of the information. They're going to talk to as many people as they can, and they're going to figure out, okay.
I think we should do this. And once they decide that, it is final. Very hard to change an analyzer's mind in conflict. And they is going to... completely backfire if you rush them so tell people uh you can always if you're thinking back to family vacations and family reunions you can always identify this is the the person that they're gonna plan the trip they're gonna get everything all the way together
And then their word is final. So that is, they're not going to take opinions. They're not going to take questions. It is, we're going here and we're going to have fun. So the next style is the collaborator, which is I can self-identify as that for me. That is someone who is going to every conflict.
they're going to want to talk about it. They're going to be engaging. They're going to gather all the information similar to an analyzer, but then they're going to want to talk through it and they're going to want to try and fix it. Fortunately, I mean, I used to have just beautiful blonde flowing Thor hair, and it was awesome. I didn't have the body of Thor, but I had the hair.
And being a collaborator for my whole life, it makes the hair go away. So it can definitely, definitely cause some burnout. It also can really, when we talk about best teammates and worst teammates, it can. rub certain profiles wrong because they're always engaging, always wanting to talk, not wanting everybody to get along. But that can kind of get them in some...
get them in some trouble. And then the final profile is the accommodator. So that is someone who would so much rather just fix it themselves, do it themselves. they're not going to confront people. So they are going to, similar to an avoider, they're going to avoid conflict, but for completely different reasons. They do not want to have that direct confrontation. They're going to want to talk to everybody else.
except for the person that they're actually in conflict with, which can be very beneficial. There's certainly some situations where... comedy needs to happen but it can also get them in trouble a little bit or if you have people on your team that are like this because they'll act like nothing's wrong they'll say nothing's wrong
And it'll build and build and build and build and build until they reach that fight or flight moment to where it's the issues have stacked up and they either blow up about an issue, number 17, when... It's not about issue number 17 or they're going to quit, leave, and you have no idea why and what you did to offend them. So each of the styles, that's kind of the biggest message is there's no right or wrong style. There's no magic style.
Identifying what people are allows us to use different techniques with each. Now, Jim, this is great to be able to pinpoint these different styles. And certainly, if everyone is a rational actor who wants to get to a resolution, well then, according to those styles, everyone should be able to work towards those resolutions. What are some of the signs?
or styles of recognizing that perhaps we're not dealing with rational actors. That's a great point because like I said, once conflict has escalated. You're not dealing with very many rational people just in general. So that really becomes very specific ways of dealing with each of the profiles. whenever someone has escalated. So for example, one of the techniques that we discussed in the book that strongly recommend is the voice technique. So here in Texas, where Matthew McConaughey is very...
Very popular. The attorneys in town call it my Matthew McConaughey voice. And when in conflict, I use the talk, the all right, all right, all right, talk low, talk slow. with psychologically people not being able to hold a higher tone of volume if they feel connected with you. And so one of the things we recommend with all five of the styles is in a conflict setting to start to bring your voice down.
make that solid eye contact, and start to get people to match. On the fun side of things, you can see people start to mimic your accent. One of my favorite things to do because I'm weird is get people to talk in different tones of voice. and things, whether it's customer service and recommend that in our tradings. But getting people to start to slow that cadence, start to talk in a lower tone of voice will start to bring that.
bring those emotions down. One of the other biggest ones, and full disclosure, I've been married for 12 years, been together with my wife for 15 years. She's the best. I went to play ball at a school with a five to one girl to guy ratio, which is the only reason I got her to marry me because there wasn't. really anybody else um but i hid this technique from her forever until i put it this dang book and now uh people know but we call it the the deter technique um so one of the things we see
or not dealing with someone that's rational or dealing with someone with high emotion is they're very upset about multiple different issues. And one of the things we discussed is how to get to the core issue, but they're... People are never just upset about one thing. There's always multiple things. And so one of the things you strongly recommend is as you've identified those issues and somebody is just going off and that emotion spiked, reason is lower.
is to ask calmly a clarifying question using the voice technique about a separate issue. something that they brought up so we're not interrupting them in terms of uh interrupting them and asking something completely different it is an issue and it is a hot button issue but they have to stop think about it and redirect towards that issue
naturally that emotion is going to start to lower and it's going to take a while for them to build back up that emotion on this issue. And once that happens... detour detour to the next one and bouncing forth and back and forth and so if we do that in a way that's respectful if we do that with we're connecting with them and we're coming across as hey we're really asking for their opinion
about an issue that they brought up that's going to start to lower that emotion as it as it as it goes through but now unfortunately my wife knows the technique so she she knows if i'm doing that to her or not Hey, quick question, Johnny. Why do intelligence agencies spend millions training their operatives in relationship building? Because in the field, you only get one chance to build trust and make the right connections, just like in your career.
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That's theartofcharm.com slash spy. Don't leave your career success the chance. Get the same networking strategies trusted by intelligence agencies at theartofcharm.com slash spy. Can you give us a... maybe a little fun example of you using it with your wife because that detour technique is a little complicated i think to just hear first and not understand the nuances. For example, if my wife is upset at me for not talking to her and planning a trip with the in-laws or with my family.
But she's also upset at me for forgetting to take out the trash or for a purchase or something along those lines. And she's told me those three things. I know the family trip is the one that's the hot button issue. As she's getting worked up and as she's getting upset and talking to me about that, I'll ask calmly a clarifying question about the trash or about the purchase that I did. And so she has to stop.
think about it, redirect. And while she still may be mad at me about the trash or about the purchase, it's going to take a while for that emotion to raise back up. And I can bounce back and forth between the three things that she's mad at me. Until that emotion is lowered to the point to where I'm a little bit off the hook. So recognizing that those two techniques really rely on lowering the other person's emotion in conflict.
Oftentimes that emotion from the other person can spike our own emotion and make it difficult for us to even find techniques in our repertoire. So in those situations where you're now. emotional state is being so influenced by the other person's emotional state. How do we start to calm ourselves to find the strategies that you just employed?
First steps is identifying which type of conflict it is. So we talk a lot about the five styles, but so much of that depends on the three levels of conflict. Is this a task conflict? Getting things done. Is it about I need to do these 14 things on my list? And either that person is preventing me from doing those things or some outside factors doing it. And that's what this conflict's about.
Is it process conflict? Is it about how things get done? Where, okay, sure, we'll get the tasks done when we need to get them done. But this is about how things are going, how this is implemented. Or is this a relational conflict? Is this what we all call drama and we all experience, but is this just conflict with another person because of what they've done or what their personality is?
Identifying and knowing yourself which one of those triggers you. They're all frustrating and they're all annoying. But identifying which of those three personally make your emotions spike and make those arise. If we know that first going into it and we can identify that, OK, this is I know I'm going to be task triggered here because this is about getting these specific things done. Labeling that is going to help keep our emotions in check.
The other biggest thing strongly recommend in conflict is we all have a tendency to be when triggered or when that emotion's high is to be competitors and to immediately want to go solve it. A timeout. that helps immensely. So one of the techniques we strongly recommend, which I followed a little bit more, is the email draft technique.
So when you're triggered and you can feel it and you know it or you know that type, that person or that situation is going to make my emotions spike, typing up an email response, let it sit for 30 minutes or more. go do some form of exercise, go walk, go work out, go do anything that's not, send that email, come back, reread it, and send it. So I had a...
trainings from years ago. I worked with a group of administrators and high school football coaches and things and had a head coach. He was forced to come to the training for continuing education. Showed up 30 minutes late, sat in the back, scrolled on his phone and just didn't look at anything, you know, didn't interact and engage.
I told him about the email draft technique. He didn't say anything. He came back. We had a follow-up training three months later at the end of the semester, and he came in 30 minutes late again. He said, hey, can I say something first? I was like, Yes, sir. Absolutely. He goes, this shit actually works. He was like, I don't know if I can say that. Sorry. He said,
I had a mom. She emailed me and said, my daughter's getting bullied by the coach and not enough playing time and yada, yada, yada. He was like, I typed up. He said, I know I'm a competitor. He said, I typed up a nasty email back. Paused it, walked around my house and came in and said, I'm being a competitor. I need to be a collaborator on this one. It resolved it. So I said, let's go. Best quote ever.
So creating that space, obviously, and typing it forces you to think through all the different dynamics that are going on there. And I know Johnny and I have even gone a step further and then said, hey, can you take a look at this? For me, completely third party to the conflict that's going on to kind of.
get that extra perspective that when our emotions are running and we're going to our default conflict style, we might have some blind spots going on around a conflict that could make it a lot easier to resolve if we actually knew what was going on in that blind spot. 100% and I think that's the same goal of assessing the styles too is you always say it all the time in trainings and speaking and things is that
You know, it's fun. You know, it's fun to know what your style is and kumbaya and to better yourself. And okay, I'm an avoider and I need to be better at this in certain situations. But really for predicting and preventing conflict, assessing.
what the other person's style is, and then knowing what style I need to change to to match it, it's going to be a best teammate is infinitely more and more important. And so taking that time, as you said, to... assess not only okay i'm triggered uh you know i'm triggered i'm triggered by this type of conflict i need to take that time out but assess it gives you the time to assess the other person and see what techniques what style is going to match with them
That 30 minutes also gives you that space of coming back to it. I think when it comes to conflict and trying to work it out, usually there's some... personal feelings that are hurt as well. And you may have your eye on the task or process. Perhaps, you know, somebody doing something in a way where that personally interferes and you take that. Personally, when you read that email again, you might see yourself trying to deal with that task, but also how your ego sneaks in a few barbs.
to get your personal revenge, which is not needed, and it's only going to exacerbate the whole problem as well. That is a great point. 100%. It pours gas on the fire. And even sometimes it's just enough where you're like, will they read this one sentence and take the hit that I want them to hit? And then when you're reading it that way, you're like, oh.
Why do I even want that if what we're doing here is trying to get to a resolution? So looking at the self-awareness piece, because it does seem so important for you to recognize your own style before putting all this focus and effort on the other person.
What are some practical ways that we could increase our self-awareness in this area, especially for those in the audience who are looking to move into leadership roles or in leadership roles and recognizing that conflict is almost a daily occurrence now? I think your last point is absolutely huge, that it is a daily occurrence. People just don't always call it conflict. I mean, I remember meeting with different CEOs or superintendents or coaches or things that would say, well, we don't.
We don't have conflict. Okay, cool. Tell me about your day. Well, all I do is put out fires. That's all I do. That's all I do. So whether you call it conflict or putting out fires or drama or whatever it is, it really is a daily occurrence. One of the biggest first steps that I recommend is once you know your style, so if you know, hey, I am a collaborator, identify which is the opposite style, which is the one that doesn't pair.
the best with collaborators well avoiders don't that is cross match clash does not work well together and it's going to be the opposite of counterintuitive for me. That's not my default. It is very hard for me to be an avoider. One of the first steps we recommend is Try practicing that technique. In situations, as you see a smaller conflict come up, having that, as you mentioned, self-awareness to say, okay, this is one where I can be an avoider here.
I need to let this conflict go and really start to practice it. And I think the second biggest one, and that's really one of the goals of this book and your first question of why writing it or getting into it is... Hey, you know, we'll do these trainings and do these seminars and speeches and things and people would come up and after and.
It was never, so I've got this boss. It's, hey, this is great. I've got this mother-in-law. I've got this cousin, my roommate, my this. It's all, as you mentioned, personal conflict. yeah as you mentioned that that that hits home that hits hits more and so trying to implement another style but see if you can do it at home or with your friends or with your relationships because
the emotion is just always going to be higher there. And if you can do it there, it's going to be much easier to transfer that over to work. So would you say that the task or process style or type of conflict... is a little bit less than the relational, which carries a lot more baggage and weight. And sometimes it's familial relations, which, you know, have even more baggage and weight behind them. You're always going to have that relational.
Conflict trigger with friends, with families, you know, and in the personal relationships that we have. And that's not going to go away. The conflict may be a process conflict and it may be small. It may be, you know. So-and-so roommate always chooses, you know, where to go to dinner or in a relationship that, you know, things get done a specific way and nitpicking and, hey, have you done this yet? Have you called this yet? Have you done this yet? Have you done this yet?
But it hits different because it is going to have that relational conflict opponent. And as you mentioned, that's where the ego comes in. That's where the, you know, wanting to get in those barbs and kind of trigger people as well come into play. Okay, so we've recognized our style. And you gave one great example, the avoider and the collaborator are their opposites. What are the other examples of opposites now that we're starting to recognize our own style that we can adopt?
and employ in these situations um one of the biggest ones is going to be an analyzer and an accommodator as well because uh analyzers
They're going to want to get as much audience participation as possible. They're going to want to know all the information. They're going to do those things and really know what people are feeling or thinking. They're going to be very rational thinkers as well, even when they're... trigger that's going to be their default whereas accommodators they don't want to interact they don't want to have confrontation they'd much rather hey i'm fine i'm fine i'm fine i'm fine and that's going to
trigger the analyzers because they want that engagement they want that interaction they want that information and that's also going to I think academic term is piss off an accommodator as well because just leave me alone. Just leave me alone and let me do that. The competitors are going to be... a little bit trickier. So a competitor, you naturally would think that they would be very frustrated with an avoider.
just because competitors want to resolve things now whereas supporters will let it sit let it sit let it sit but what we find in high emotion conflict is that once an avoider is triggered and once they have reached the point where they feel like this is something they need to resolve, they're going to handle it almost exactly like a competitor.
They want to sit down. They want to get it done because they want it off their plate. They want to go back to doing the things that they that they want to do. So typically for. a competitor they're going to clash with collaborators and they're going to clash with accommodators as well for very different Collaborators, they want the small talk. They want to engage. They want to read people. They want to know exactly what's going on. And that can absolutely drive a competitor crazy at first.
that motion's lowered, they typically work pretty well together. Whereas accommodators, they're just not going to engage with that competitor. And if so, they're going to get steamrolled. And that's where we see that bitterness and wait till it kind of escalates. Super helpful to recognize these patterns. And I'd love to talk about the conflict agenda, what it is, and then what are the skills.
that will make us adapt at employing some of the strategies and techniques that we're really excited to dig into in the back half of the episode. and y'all are the best i love talking about this stuff so this is my uh this is one of my favorite favorite things to do so um so on the the conflict agenda i mean you know the first first step being as we talked about
assessment, identifying your own style, identifying the style of the people that are either in conflict, if we're third party coming in to resolve it, almost mediation style, or if it's direct conflict between you and them. But also... taking it a step further and assessing the type of conflict. Is it that task? Is it that process? Is it that relational or are we dealing with relational?
but the underlying is kind of in that process so that's the first step that's the step that gets skipped so often and people jump to the to the final final component The next big step on the timeline is identifying that core issue. So there's if you'll ever find a conflict that only has one issue, please let me know. I'd love to.
publish a paper on it or write another book about it. I've never seen it. People always come up with, even if they make them up, issues to justify their position or what they... what they do. And we learned that at a very young age. So my oldest daughter, Blair, she's eight now. But back when she was two, she figured out she could get away with just about anything by saying, but daddy.
I'm scared. I'm like, oh, baby, don't be scared. Daddy's here and he'll take care of all of it for you. She got away with that for six months. Until finally she said it about wearing pants. And I was like, dang, I just got mediated. But we all come up with these issues to justify the position that we did.
you know, the position that we take, whether that's in a conflict setting or so there are actions, we're always going to have those smokescreen issues in there. They're going to sound better. And so identifying. What is that core issue? What's at the heart of the conflict? That's going to help us in the long run, save a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of energy so we don't waste time. We don't waste time trying to.
resolve stuff that doesn't really matter. I think it's just a natural response to start thinking about how do I not make this my fault? How do I soften any problems or anything that I've created? How do I soften it? How do I get out of it? That's just natural. I think that's just self-preservation. You find yourself in that thinking to stop yourself and realize that you're not focused on the problem.
and how to handle the problem and how to address the problem so that everyone can work on it together, you're trying to save your ass. And if that's the case, you're putting fuel on the fire. I certainly do it. And then when I'm sitting there going, when I catch myself in that mode, I'm like, well, here I am defending myself. That doesn't help this problem. Let's get back to that.
to that issue. So far, I think it's easier for people to realize that's just something naturally you're gonna do, and when you cut yourself, cut it out. Well, those smoke screens, I feel they're... always present. So are there some ways for us to figure out what's the real issue from the smoke screen, especially from a skilled mediator like yourself? Because I know even when we went through these major conflicts in business that.
You come with a lot of different things and the mediators really adapt at like getting to that core issue quickly. So we're not spending all day batting back and forth the issues that are the smoke screens. That brings to one of my favorite techniques. So in this stage, identifying the underlying interests and really developing that agenda for resolving the conflict.
First steps, identifying all of the issues. So every single one, every single one that's been said. And that's going to do two things for us. One, it's going to help validate the other person. Um, so just, I mean, as you mentioned, that's, that's you're just kind of taking that ego out of it and, um, listening to what they say and really making sure we have an understanding that'll help, you know, eliminate, um, miscommunications.
But also it's going to validate them that, hey, I get my chance to vent. I get my chance to talk. I get my chance to tell my side of the story. And as we're asking them questions, clarifying, okay, this issue here, this issue here, this issue here.
that's going to kind of set that stage, building the rapport with them in order to do that. So once those issues are identified, this is where the detour technique comes into play so much. So that whole... concept of assessing people but we're not just assessing their style we're also assessing their baseline of of behavior you know how what is their tone how do they communicate their body language their voice you know all of these things as we're
As we're talking to them and we're reading and we're identifying, okay, this is their baseline. This is how AJ sits. This is how he talks. These are his inflections. as we use that detour technique to go through the different issues that they've brought up we can see what changes, what starts to bring out more emotion, what starts to make that change in voice happen, what starts to get people to fidget or do all of these different things. It won't tell us exactly.
why that issue is the most important or why the emotion is spiking. But it definitely gives us a clue that, okay, this is what we need to go dig into and ask more questions. So that detour technique is really assessing the deep underlying trigger of all of this. And that will be observable with active listening and really paying close attention to vocal tonality and body language as you're...
sharing back the issues as you've heard them. And being able to navigate and bounce from issue to issue without. making things worse by them thinking that you're interrupting them or not paying attention that, hey, we're clarifying, hey, do you mind if I, just to make sure I understand about this, where you're coming from on.
this having people stop redirect and think it's going to lower that emotion but also it's going to give us the chance to observe how do they handle what changes between this issue and this issue
And seeing that emotional response, that's going to help us kind of clue in on, okay, there's something about this issue here. There's something, it's not about the trash. It's not about the... vacation there's there's something there's something else going on here with this and this is where we need to deep dive more that's a great example of the person deep down just not feeling heard in all of these different situations
where it might be the trash, it might be the planning without them, it might be involving the in-laws and not actually hearing what they wanted to do on that vacation or what was really important to them. So we're getting down to the much deeper issue at play here. We recognize that.
we know their style so let's walk through some of these techniques now to actually resolve the conflict it uh people typically in the trainings and things the biggest pushback is why i don't have time to do all of that i'm busy or are busy at home, or I've got kids, or I run all of these things. But what that does, if we do get to the heart of the issue and resolve it, it eliminates the frequent.
flyers. So you may be able to resolve the surface level issues and feel good about that and get that off your plate. But people are just going to keep coming back. So my wife was a night shift ER nurse forever. And so people would come in over and over and over using it as their primary care doctor. But they weren't there for what they said they were there for. They wanted either.
work excuse or pain meds or different things. And with that not being resolved, they were going to keep coming up with more issues to come back. So it's usually one of the biggest disclaimers we want to put in at this stage of the process is everybody wants to jump. then use the techniques to just resolve it and get it done but if we do that we'll spin our wheels and not if we don't know the core issue that we're dealing with so um so the
Biggest, the final stage. Yeah, that's leading people to a solution. So I don't, or either of y'all cook or. Yeah. Okay, awesome. So that's the biggest thing. Our goal is to get people to cook the meal themselves because then if they don't like the meal... nobody to really blame but themselves and psychologically they feel more comfortable because they had the buy-in in creating it so these techniques um
They can be used assessing people and venting and going through these first stages in the process. By that point, you've lowered emotion enough that you can make firm suggestions on this is what we should do. And that will probably work. But our goal is to really resolve conflict is to. help people come to that solution themselves or to suggest it. So one of the biggest techniques that I always use and recommend for work setting is always have a whiteboard.
And I call it the whiteboard techniques. We don't have to actually have a whiteboard and use it, but mentally we can do it. So, for example, I had a... nasty divorce mediation years and years ago where the husband and wife, they had, just for the sake of math, let's say they had $100,000 in joint assets. That's it. But they owed over $200,000 worth of debt. So completely upside down. They were threatening to go to court for, let's say, $50,000 a piece. And they were paying me a bunch of money.
to sit here and argue about it and they just were going off on this was spent because of his affair and her affair and all of these things and so you know had to lower emotion identify the core issues all of those those things but getting to that final stage of making it their idea so i once the emotion was lowered i knew it out hey just do you mind just real real quick um how much was on that credit card
You got in this bank account, okay, so you all have $100,000 worth of positive assets. Okay, and then you owe, okay, about $200,000 worth of debt. And then, Mr. Attorney, how much are your... Oh, wow. Okay, it's going to cost about 50 grand. Okay, great. Thanks, guys. I just wanted to make sure I clarified that and had the numbers right. And the husband looked at it and he said, well, shit, why don't we just, you know.
take the money, pay off half the debt and split it. And the wife goes, yeah, Jim, why don't we do that? I was like, I think that's a brilliant idea. I think that's a wonderful idea. That's amazing. It's an idea that any of us would have come up with. right out of the gate. Everybody but that couple in conflict could see it, that that is the best solution. That would save tons of money. A judge would order this anyway.
But asking them those questions to lead them to a solution is the ultimate goal. So for us in this stage, once we know the core issue, we have a plan and we want to lead. The first thing we have to do is identify whether to use the momentum technique or use the domino technique. So as we talked about before, there's never just one issue. There's going to be a lot of smokescreens.
For some profiles, for some of the styles, you're going to want to get to the heart of the issue right away. You're not going to want to mess around with the surface level issues with those smoke screens. You're going to want to go directly for the big one.
And that's why we call it the domino technique. Once you knock that out, the rest of them are just going to fall down and go away. Whereas some styles, it's going to be the exact opposite. If we go directly in and immediately try and resolve the core issue.
they're going to get triggered, that emotion is going to come back, and we're not going to make much progress. Instead, we want to do the momentum technique. We want to get a couple quick wins, working on the conflicts that don't matter as much, those issues, to lead up to that big one. Okay, so can you help us map between the two then? So what...
What styles definitely do we want to go domino with? Definitely, without a doubt, the first one is the competitor. If you use momentum with a competitor, it will... It will not go well. It will not go well. Do not recommend it unless you just really want to incite some emotion within people and sit back and watch. The other is the avoider as well. So if they've decided, they've done the opportunity costs and weighed and realized, okay, this is a conflict I need to deal with.
They don't want to mess around with smokescreen issues. They want to get to the heart of it. They want to resolve it, and they want to be done. For your collaborators, your analyzers, and your accommodators, We want to use the momentum technique, but for very different reasons. For the analyzer, they're trying to get as much information as possible. They want to know every piece. They don't want to be rushed. And for them, they feel like they're winning.
if they're resolving these small conflicts and feel ready and able to attack the big one for the collaborators. It's the opposite. They just, they love people. They love getting information. They love resolving each little conflict. They're going to feel cheated if they only resolve the big conflict. Whereas the final.
Final ones, the accommodators, they need to feel comfortable first, that this is not going to be an intense confrontation, that they are comfortable with resolving some of these smaller ones before they get to more of a hot button issue. Let's start with the domino and maybe walk us through an example of that technique employed. Let's say work example, and this is something we've actually had in trainings and things as it comes up, that they're arguing about.
setting vacation policy, arguing about spending. budgets, you know, in terms of approving an updated marketing or travel budget side of things, and arguing about a new policy for lunch breaks. So those three. Some people, they would matter more than to others, but the biggest one was the change in vacation policy. The other ones, not quite as big a deal. They could work out and kind of go through. They were more of the smoke screen.
type issues so when it comes to the the domino or dealing with you know your avoider with your competitor it's All right, we're setting that agenda. The first and our main focus is going to be on the vacation policy. What are the biggest issues? What are your thoughts? How can we resolve this? Putting that in there.
putting that in their hands, and then being able to point to, guys, we did it. We knocked that out. Okay, what's next on the agenda? Okay, we need to talk about the market budget. We need to talk about the...
of the lunch break policy that we went through. If we're dealing with the collaborators, the analyzers, or the accommodators, the complete opposite. Let's start with the one that's not as big of a... an issue the marketing budget you know hey what are your thoughts take me take me through this let's go and we're pointing out all along the way over and over
Look at how much progress you've made. Look at what all we've done. Look at what all we've accomplished. Wow, so we only have one more thing left. And that is the vacation policy. So it's reorienting. those based on the style as a way for us to satisfy the other person's wants and needs directly in that conflict. Absolutely. So as we're going through this, do you recommend that we're...
taking notes and starting to like really piece things together? What's your approach, especially as a mediator where you're kind of sitting between two contentious parties? Walk us through what your notepad looks like as you're going through this. Whether it's a mental notepad because it's with relationships or with friends or family or it is, as you mentioned, a formal side of things.
First notepad is drawing out those issues. So just to reiterate that, identify what are the 17 issues that are in this conflict. So I know what their style is. I know what style is going to match the best. with them i need to be a collaborator i need to be a competitor here um and identifying here are the core issues in circling whether mentally or literally what i think the hot button issue hot button issue is
The next is I'm ranking them. So, okay, I know the hot button issues here. These other four or five different things, these other 12 things, I'm ranking them in order to set up that momentum and domino. technique. After that, it is okay. It's time to play ball. This is where we get to bring in the other fun techniques, the other things to do to start to eventually lead people to that solution.
How much interviewing are you doing beforehand on both sides to get all the information that you need to set up the strategy that you want?
issues that will be handled and the solutions that you want to work towards? Informal mediation. We don't do interviewing ahead of time, just prevent bias or anything like that. But for... actually predicting and preventing conflict and resolving it um as as much as possible um so one of the the first things we want to know um and we want to try and figure out if we can even in personal things is
what are the ways people communicate so kind of that that mode of do they prefer to communicate via text do they prefer to express their emotions on social media are they sending these long-winded emails? Are they always going in person? That's going to help us rule out certain profiles. It won't tell us exactly who we're dealing with right away.
but it is going to be that first step in eliminating some. So for example, if people prefer to communicate, especially in a conflict setting through email, probably going to be either our avoiders or analyzers for very different reasons. One, it's very easy to avoid people when you're only communicating through email. You can have 90,000 unread emails. I send an email to you.
and respond for a week. I think maybe he's on vacation. Maybe he bounced back or maybe he went to spam. It's a little more awkward whenever you text someone and they text you back, the three little bubbles pop up. And then it goes away and you don't hear from them for three days. So a little harder to avoid on that scenario. And then the same for your analyzers, but for different reasons. They want to get as much information as possible.
So they're going to want to ask all of these different questions. And it's awkward to get the junior high length. breakup texts, you know, or it's novels of information, even with the new iPhone update where you can click and it expands. But in email, it's not quite as awkward. It's not quite as weird to ask very specifically.
questions we all have those people we work with or in our lives that'll send the the emails with broken up into paragraphs and highlighted bolded and in those those things and so um that mode of communication is huge you know you're Collaborators are always going to want to be face to face or over the phone. So are your competitors. Competitors because they want to resolve it now.
collaborators because they want to read people they want to gain as much information as small talk is as well and then for your accommodators that's their worst nightmare They're going to prefer that text messages, the social media, things they don't have to interact quite as much with it. So that mode is huge. If we can find that out before, if we know that from the people in our lives and relationships.
that can help us kind of narrow down to specific profiles it's so helpful i think so often we don't go in with the plan And then we settle very quickly around the smokescreen issues and not the big issues. And then we get frustrated when we're right back in conflict with the same person or team again and again. So for those in leadership roles.
Does it help to build teams around conflict style? Are we looking to pair and group people together if we're leading a team and we got to get these big things done to facilitate resolving conflicts quickly on our teams?
From what we've seen companies use this for, for leaders using this is really two different areas. One is, as you mentioned, the building of the team um so whether that's deciding who to promote who to be team leader whether that's as you're interviewing people and saying oh i've got a full team of avoiders
Do I really want to hire this collaborator? Is that going to go well? Or I have a lot of task trigger people. Do I really want the accommodator in here? So we see people do that to kind of, essentially to predict and prevent. conflict from happening. The second is in assessing their own teams. I'd say the number one biggest thing I get brought in to do is to do assessment, to have the team take our assessment profile and say,
Yeah, these specific situations, those two people are going to fight. And it's just going to keep happening. We may either want to make some changes in terms of how we handle them or, you know what, we may just need to separate those people or make sure that there's somebody there changing some policies ahead of time. So identifying.
With existing teams, what's going to work and what's not and start to see those fires before they happen is huge. But also in just the creation of the team itself. I've got a lot of this profile. Do I really want to hire their worst teammate? This has been such a fascinating conversation with great examples. And I know our audience loves analyzing themselves and getting to know their style. So where can they find out more about the...
self-analysis that you offer and the work that you do? First is the book, How to Get Along with Anyone. It's coming out February 18th. But our website, theconflictdocs.com. So we have not only a way to purchase the book, but we also do have a scientifically validated assessment that people can log on and take that will tell them what their profile is, what their...
uh, type of conflict triggers them, um, as well as their best teammate and worst teammate. Uh, so we, we recommended strongly before any first dates, um, just have your, your date, take the assessment, see if it's going to be. Yeah, it may save you some time and money on a bad date. Yeah, we might start putting in our online dating profiles. I'm an accommodator. There you go. No competitors here. Thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure having you.
Guys, thank you so much. It was very nice to meet y'all. Thank you for listening. And now comes the part of the show where we showcase one of our X Factor Accelerator members. Take it away, Chris. Hey, everyone. My name is Chris Raftery. I'm a financial advisor. And I joined X Factor to build better relationships with my friends, at work, and also with my family. X Factor really helped me.
not just with the course material and reading about all the ways I could improve, but also in helping me implement. all of these different teachings, giving me an outlet and a network to practice these things, to troubleshoot in a way a lot of situations I was going through and really provide some real world applications.
And have fun along the way, too. The thing I'm looking forward to the most is continuing to develop. They say iron sharpens iron and being able to work with the other guys in the group. has really proved that i'm looking forward to continuing to build better relationships with the existing folks that i hold near and dear to me but also meeting new people out there
Thank you, Chris. And it was a pleasure and an honor working with you too. And good luck to all your future endeavors. If you've gotten value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It means the world to us. and it helps others find the show. Johnny, what's the one thing that separates highly successful people from everyone else? That's easy, AJ. It's their ability to build and leverage genuine relationships.
The best opportunities always come through connections. And that's exactly what we teach in our X Factor Accelerator program. Live coaching calls, implementation workshops, and a supportive community of high achievers all focused on one thing. helping you develop the confidence and charisma to succeed. Whether you're looking to advance your career, grow your business or deepen your personal relationships, we give you
the proven framework to make it happen. Our clients have gone from feeling stuck to launching successful businesses, landing dream jobs, and building incredible networks, all by mastering these essential skills. Make 2025 your breakthrough year. Join us in the X-Factor Accelerator. Head over to unlockyourxfactor.com to apply now. Limited spots available for our January cohort. Your future self will thank you.
Before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. Until next week, go out there and make it amazing.