Hey everybody, it's Joe and about four years ago, Thiago Forte came to me and he asked me if I would create an online course of the work that he had seen me do in person and it was just as COVID was starting and I wasn't really excited about it and then COVID happened and I was like, oh let's let's give this a whirl and I wanted to do something that really deeply cared for every individual that came. And and so I
did a whole bunch of things that we weren't supposed to do we were supposed not supposed to have like one class and it was expensive and that was the only class right but that's all that we did. I was supposed to not have one person with every small group of six because that would be too expensive. It was supposed to be five weeks instead of eight weeks.
But there was something I wanted to do I wanted to do create something that actually really transformed lives that really moved the needle in people's lives where I could spend time tracking each person so that we limited the size and other thing we weren't supposed to do so that we could have people who we trained for a year or more who would be in each of the groups.
So and and we wanted to do stuff that was not like a normal online course where people really felt a deep sense of connection and intimacy with the people that they were working with not just one on one but in small groups.
Groups that would allow people to stay in touch for years to come after four years we've done all that and and that's master class and because it's such a heavy lift we only get to do one a year and it's coming up and if you're interested come to view dot life slash master class it is absolutely the thing that I wanted to create it's what excites me every year to be able to.
To just really follow people's transformation and be such an intimate part of it and be able to do rapid fire coaching with so many people because we do it every week it's just it's just exciting for me and so I hope to see you there. As the thoughts dissipated as I couldn't believe them anymore the reality became so apparent all of a sudden it is painful to move away from myself to leave my center.
Welcome to the art of accomplishment where we explore how deepening connection with ourselves and others leads to creating the life we want with enjoyment and ease. I'm Brett Kisler here today with my co host Joe Hudson.
One of the exercises in our workshops is question the assumption and you could say that this is an exercise you could also say it's a lifestyle you could also say it's kind of a personality type there are just people who do that as that's just who they are and it's also really really impactful it seems really simple but you can go infinitely deep with it and there's a lot of different things that it can mean to do that it can be really annoying really abrasive.
And it can also be really really reviewing and yeah might we even say enlightening so I would I'd love to do an episode on the topic of questioning the assumption. That's that sounds fantastic because it is it's in many of our courses that a different exercises around it it's really important piece yeah that sounds good yeah great let's let's start with what is it what is what do we mean by questioning the assumption.
Yeah so in any statement that we make any problem statement that we make I'm slammed right now I I don't have enough money I'm not enlightened there are there are some assumptions in there that usually aren't questioned we usually do as we go and try to solve the problem that's been announced instead of actually question the problem itself.
And so well are you enlightened are you not enlightened is there you that gets enlightened is is the is that how it works is enlightenment something that you achieve or is enlightenment something that just happens. How would you know if you were enlightened there's all sorts of assumptions to the question of or the problem of I'm not I'm not enlightened or I'm slammed or anything like that and so question the assumption is a way to see through our problems.
And in the scene through of the problems sometimes they fall apart and sometimes they're just easier to solve and so that's what it is that it's most basic it's it's most basic form and it's more complex forms or you know if you're working on you know the head heart and gotten you're working on the head in particular.
Being able to see through your thoughts is a really important piece to not like have them so solid and to be able to see that all thoughts have some truth and all thoughts don't have truth. And so on a secondary level it is the inquiry that is one of the practices that will help somebody get to a place of awakening or more freedom or less self abuse and so.
And so that's also what it is you know there's lots of forms of inquiry out there in the and and you know there's Vicar which is like the what am I that the Hindus did there's firing Katie you know the four questions there's you know the secratic method there's all sorts of inquiry forms and question the assumption is is a way to congeal a lot of those different forms of inquiry.
Yeah I can't help but notice that you went straight to the like ephemeral like the enlightenment as a terror here and I'm also curious for people to get grounded a little bit in. You know like this this is something that comes up in business all the time we're like oh wait we're asking the right question what's the actual problem statement here. There's a million books written on out of the box thinking which is sort of a similar like a like a nephew to question the assumption.
Yes and yeah the reason yeah and how you manage people instead of saying here's how to do it it's here's how to do it and what am I missing there's so many places where it applies in so many places but if you're doing it the way that we're talking about doing it for.
Pretty soon you're going to get to a place where you're like what the fuck do I believe if everything can be questioned and that's can be disconcerting so but I agree with you it's practical in all those ways but it isn't the reason I said is there is a distinction between the way it's used in business which is really really useful and problem solving which is really really useful and when it's used for self inquiry yeah yeah yeah and so what makes it so important.
For self inquiry in particular. Yeah so if you are continually believing your thoughts then there's really your identity just sticks in place and it's very hard so one of the ways is like you hear it all the time and I think in Buddhist reference comparative thought comparative mind is is causes a lot of pain which you can also see in the stoics which is this like comparative thought.
Comparative thought is just a set of thoughts that you can question the assumption on right and wrong thoughts that can create a lot of pain at times can shoulds can all be seen through with question your assumption so to be able to see through that also and and it's course seen through your identity a little bit at each time because most of us identify with the thoughts that we're thinking.
Yeah yeah so it's a way of exploring the like identity the projections the thoughts the worldview and when you question it you can then try on different worldviews and find the one that works works the best you're always going to be in one in something there's this generally going to be some some assumption somewhere you trade off one assumption for a different assumption but the idea here is is what I'm hearing is that you try different ones and they also they also become more transparent when you are actively.
So you can see that you can see that the lens you're looking through and so that creates a way in which they dissolve they should become less real less personal yeah. Yeah so why why would somebody want this for example especially in this like questioning your core beliefs about how you engage with the world who you are what you are what the world is. I will what would make that helpful and not just to stay was I can tell you a lot of reasons you wouldn't want it.
You're not going to be right there's going to be nothing to defend there's yeah there's it's definitely destabilizing for some people for a short period of time also like the the I literally I think we've spoken about this once but I remember working with somebody where we saw through a lot of this and that a hard time like going to the grocery store and deciding what to buy you know that I can because there. What's happening here like I don't even know that like even that is questioning and.
So those are all the things that can be uncomfortable about it most of them very fleeting and why you wanted is because it's a tremendous amount of freedom that to not have to defend your thoughts to not have to defend yourself to be able to see through. The things that cause you pain to be able to shift your world view and see the truth in different perspectives makes it so that your relationships are usually a lot better.
So there's just a lot of benefits but mostly it's just the freedom you know if you're not constrained by this is what is true this is what is right this is what is wrong. Not to say that there isn't there's a weird way it right and wrong becomes even more like even more. It's more commanding is the way I would say it but the idea right and wrong goes away which is a very strange thing.
So yeah so so those are all the reasons you'd want is just a tremendous amount of freedom in it and and really good for problem solving like if you can if you like if someone can say you're totally full of shit and you're like yes here's exactly how boom boom boom boom and here's what I see boom boom boom boom and what do you see like it's so easy to problem solve when you're not when you're thinking is flexible yeah.
One one thing that I that I observe when people are questioning the assumption is a lot of times there's certain assumptions that were ready to see and ready to question other ones that were just not.
And you can see this where a lot of times people take on the identity of like I am a question of the assumptions I'm not going to take what you know society tells me I'm not going to take what the government tells me I'm not going to take what the youtubers and I'm just going to take on a different.
Like and that's just natural I think it wouldn't be start to actually question our assumptions there's certain sacred cows that were just not going to even see that we're not looking at and so we can kind of go on a journey of. You know questioning questionings things that are low hanging fruit that seem like seem like they're getting a summer but they're actually getting us deeper into a particular worldview and I'm curious for your experience in working with this tool.
Over the course of your life what what did you wrestle with and how did you wrestle with it on that journey towards. Finding a finding the deeper assumptions to question yeah and yeah sincerity to question the ones that are the most scary yeah that's a great question well so I would say the.
For my journey I kind of avoided questioning the assumption in a bit in a weird way because I saw a lot of people who were like naturally questioning the assumption it was like it was just them trying to prove themselves right right so it just felt like there was a lot of. Really why is that like it was lawyering it was it was it was there was like debate to be right you know that kind of stuff so it didn't appeal for a while then there was a part of it the good of.
So credit questioning yeah exactly exactly it was a they were skeptical and it was their questioning was a form of their skepticism so which is definitely not what we're talking about when we're talking questioning the assumption and then I questioned. As you were said like a great like a questioning assumption because I'm not this I'm not that but that was really just me rebelling against the authority figure that was my dad and so.
And you see that a lot with like even people who say they're contrarian investors it's like really so tell me about your rebellion against your father who was an authority like it's almost always there. So so that contrarianness is it it's it's also the and I discovered is where I found the tool but I discovered the way that I was using it at that time was very much still in being controlled by the system because I was rebelling against something so I couldn't see the truth in the.
The thing itself it was just to find the other way that there was more right you know it wasn't actually seen the truth in both sides and the lack of truth in both sides so. So then it just in my journey it just it slowed down a bit and and I started to question my assumption that one time I literally just I think it was like a week and a half I just questioned everything.
I just question every assumption like and everything ended up to be this isn't isn't and it made me a little crazy to be honest with you is definitely like what who like felt like the ground got ripped out from underneath me I didn't know what like how do I make a fucking decision from this place if there's no clear right and wrong and what the fuck's going on and.
And I was really destabilizing for me for a little bit and I did it really hardcore just like I was merciless for like this week questioning everything and and then over time is that integrated what happened was. The more that I saw through I could see different perspectives the more I saw through every perspective the more it became crystal clear what I was supposed to be doing.
And there's this phrase that I only weren't learned recently and it's a Tibetan Buddhist phrase and it says mind is why does the sky action is fine as barley flower. I'm just very fine meaning basically your mind the way I take it anyway is that your mind can see everything can see all the perspectives and it's it's as wide as the sky it's vast there's no truth or there's no right and wrong on that level.
But the rest of your system it is incredibly painful to act in a way that is not kind not compassionate not the what we might call right the right action. So it's not a morality of a thought process it's not a morality you're bad you're good it it's like oh for me to judge you means I have to close my heart to close my heart hurts. I'm not closing my heart I'm not judging you. And so and in that there's only one action for me to do is keep my heart open I can't do anything else.
And so it's what was interesting is that as the thoughts dissipated as I couldn't believe them anymore as they fell apart and I could see through them. The reality of what was painful the reality of a consciousness that didn't serve me became so apparent because I couldn't be distracted with a thought saying this is right or that's wrong or this person's right and that's.
And just be careful all of a sudden my behavior became far far more moral but not moral like a sense of morality moral is in like it is painful to take to move away from myself to to leave my center to do something like lie or.
You close my heart or be self self serving in a way that didn't consider other people yeah does mean I still can't act out of ignorance that's something different but but still so so it's it's a very strange thing and and them and so that's what I meant earlier when I said on one level right and wrong is completely gone in the head but the action is very clearly just it's very fine because you have to be. No choice but yeah acting away that is that is that is compassionate.
Okay so that's that's sort of answering already the kind of next question that I have which is a question that I guess I had but I still want to dig into a little bit more which is how how would somebody make decisions if they're questioning every assumption there is in this constant free fall and then that kind of just branches off into the the sub question of like how do you know that you are actually questioning the assumptions right not just taking on an honest and unquestioned identity of I'm the one with no thoughts I don't.
I don't believe in good or bad right I'm just going to chill here and hey I would presume that a litmus test for that is are you taking clear and precise action because I imagine that one one of the concerns of just questioning the assumption going all the way a hardcore mode would be that no action would be taken and it also seems like that would be one of the side effects of not really doing it all the way yeah I it is a great question I don't know if it's a
step process like if there's just this necessary time of like I have no idea I know that a lot of the people that we teach will have moments of that I know idea how to act anymore it doesn't usually last more than a couple weeks and and even though they don't know how to act they are acting so there's there still should happening that there's their brain can't make sense of it because a brain didn't make the decision so there's it's a very interesting piece so I think there is a step where it seems like that's required or at least natural for most people.
So I can say that it's what's a great question is how do you know if you're doing it I would say the way that you know that you're doing it while you're doing it is that it gets uncomfortable like the assumptions that are the most important to question are the ones that you hold most dear and to question them is is uncomfortable so there's so there's a moments of discomfort there's a moments of embracing intensity that comes up and you know that's not really good.
So I think that's the problem with this practice of you're not doing that then it's not actually and the other thing that happens is if the other way to know that it's actually happening is if someone like attacks your ideas and you get defensive is like that's a that's an idea you haven't seen through so that defense of this is another really good witness test of like because you need to be right you're valuing correctness.
So also aggressiveness in you. Yeah to the extent that you are aggressive even if you're questioning an assumption but doing it with force right yeah that's probably something you're defending there's probably an assumption in your world. It might be necessary to do that for a bit but yes generally like it's it's more and more joyful and hard opening even if it's scary even if it's oh fuck what if this is true oh fuck what is this oh shit this this could make my whole world fall apart.
I think there's another witness test in there too which is really such a great question you ask that there's going to be a couple of moments where you're like I don't know if I'm going to be able to relate to anybody anymore. You're going to have those moments I don't know anybody who's really deeply question their assumptions and not thought to themselves I might not be able to like I may be going too far out there and I might lose people I love.
Yeah I think that's an experience that a lot of people have just in life as they as they grew up in a different world than their parents grew up in yeah and they go out there and live a different life there's there's a way that that kind of fear just comes up.
I think for anybody unless you are like the most strictly adhering to the ideology that you grew up in yeah and somehow live in a. Piece of the world that stayed the same enough that actually that works somewhat for somehow you can come into contact with something that breaks that so I think that's a that's kind of a universal human experience of yeah.
I've had these experiences whatever they are in my life and now how do I relate will I be able to relate to yeah to home to where I came from from my origins from my friends my family yeah my political and that will come up and that will come up because you're questioning all that stuff so yeah.
I don't think you're right I think it's like all squares or rumbuses but all rumbuses are squares meaning that like if that's happening it doesn't mean you're questioning the assumption but if you're questioning the assumption that is happening yeah from time to time and so I think those are the good witness tests for that that feels right.
At a piece right there it sounds like life experience leads us to question assumptions but we can do it more explicitly if we choose to we can make it a practice yeah that's right that's beautifully said yeah I mean I I really. To see through all of my thoughts and when I was doing it originally was a see through the painful thoughts you know the shoulds and the and self abuse and stuff like that and that's something else that's like.
Something else that happens is it like you get to see through those thoughts as well but eventually I was like looking to see through everything yeah yeah if you see through the comforting thoughts yeah I found personally that when I see through the comforting.
Assumptions I see that they actually weren't that comforting at all yes exactly there was some fear of losing it there was some convincing that they were actually held in place they were holding holding some other emotion at bay yes that's I had the had the assumption that I'm safe on some level like you know kids have this assumption at some point we're like.
Oh we all live forever of course yeah because it would hurt to imagine mommy and daddy dying and then eventually yeah life experience comes us brings us in the contact with mortality and we're like oh boy yeah.
That's right there's a whole layer of assumptions that's right the whole like depth of assumptions to to explore there and to whatever extent we do we do uncover those really uncomfortable emotions that yeah are also very freeing very freeing exactly because it like there's some freedom in saying oh I'm never going to die but there's more freedom in absolutely I'm going to die in that and I can't believe any thought around that that causes constriction.
That's going to happen like yeah all these memories are going to be poof you know whatever it is I'm doing the world will fade away or a way without my control yeah and not not of it will be remembered eventually there's so much freedom and relief in that you know and I remember when those thoughts were scary yeah.
So we talked a little bit earlier about how there there be no right and wrong here and one thing I know from working with people directly is that people often have a tendency to really really really really be attached to their notion that there is a right or wrong or that there's a morality this seems almost religious to even talk about I mean it literally is religious if we're talking about in the context of religion but without that context even there's so so how without just kind of casually
dropping that bomb earlier in the episode not going deeper into it what yeah what else can we say here about how how right and wrong play into the question the assumption concept yeah I think I I I don't know if this is for sure I'd have to sort of research is a maybe we can research in the show notes but there's there is some thought process of like the more empathetic somebody
becomes the less their sense of right and wrong like locks into place I think I think that the right and wrong thing is very religious because like somebody is partially partially because their identity is attached to it right like so no it's really wrong with that person did to me because they need to be identified as that or it's really
right and wrong because my religion I'm very identified in the religion so that's why I think it becomes really and I'm not it's interesting I'm not particularly saying that there's no wrong or evil in the world so to speak meaning that there's actions that
pull us away from ourselves in other words pull us away from God that we would call you know potentially sin but we could just call it like pain and suffering because it pulls us away and and the more that that happens that say the more you could categorize that as wrong however when you start judging wrong or right when it's a thought process and when you're judging wrong and right and this is wrong and that is right
that a there's not a tremendous amount of freedom in it be it's binary thinking so it shows that it's fear see you're not actually understanding all sides of the argument so you're you're maintaining ignorance on purpose at that point if you can if you can see through it so that they're all of that's happening and it doesn't actually help you be more compassionate
right so it doesn't even matter what religion you're looking at there's like we'll use Christianity for instance like how many times is Jesus considered wrong in in the New Testament it's like an endless tie like he hung out with hookers like you know like he
did all these things that he wasn't he was like you know was hanging around lepers and he shouldn't have been hanging around like it's like so much stuff that he did that people got upset with because it was wrong and so there's really no religious figure that isn't gondy
martinley their king a lot of people said wrong that's not right that's wrong right so so it's it's seen through it seen through like the idea of it so that you can get to the truth of it I would say is the best way to describe it you're you're seeing through the idea of right and wrong so you can get in contact with the like the truth which is leaving love leaving yourself on some level creates a tremendous amount of pain for yourself and others in the world
and the more that we do that the more likely is going to be something that's painful and the more likely it is people are going to call it wrong yeah I like the framing of maintaining ignorance because in whatever and whatever framework or world view I'm in
if I see something that I'm about to do as wrong and that's where I stop looking then I also stop learning if I see something and I can see all the way through my my judgment of it as wrong but I can actually see what might happen if I do it and how it would feel
and the consequences of it and the nuance there then it it's not wrong it's just this consequence and the way that it feels and I don't want to do that and I understand more deeply and I learn more quickly what I want and what I don't want
and how I want to be yes and the other thing is the healing process meaning like let's say something horrific happened horrific happened to you you got raped in your healing process there's some way that you're going to have to give up on the fact that the person who raped you was wrong like when I see people heal from deep trauma deep pain they they have to they go through a process of not holding the other like we call it forgiveness
like you know you have to forgive to get to your freedom that's like one way to say it but basically what you have to do is you have to stop making them this monster you have to open your heart to them you have like and it's really hard to open your heart to something that your mind at least says is wrong
you can say yeah it was totally not okay for that to happen to me it's totally not okay for that person to do it for me but you can't see them as wrong and still heal yeah and so that the sense of right and wrong prevents a lot of healing prevents a lot of healing in this world
yeah yeah I could say that healing a lot of healing happens from seeing in a in the deepest perspective what was actually happening and to move into just sort of like the childhood trauma type thing where once we see like oh yeah my parents were scared
and that's yeah like their their fear came out in a certain way and it felt like attack to me and I took it to me and I was wrong or that the world was dangerous or whatever yeah then seeing seeing through and just seeing the entire situation for what it was
both relieves us of any self judgment we have relieves us of judgment of the other and also give us a deeper perspective to avoid those outcomes again because we can see them coming from a mile away yeah or if we see something coming we can't even avoid it like we're actively being mugged on a street in Panama yeah then we can at least be in that moment seeing it clearly without making ourselves or others wrong and take the action that we need to take
yeah there's this the other thing that the right and wrong the other way to say it is like you know they talk about like when atrocities have been done by people like in Hitler or Pol Pot or any of that kind of stuff it's like they made the other the others the people that they're oppressing
they made them into others you know they're like they're not humans they're not people they're the beginning of that is they're wrong the first step of that is they're wrong right you have to think that they're wrong to hate them I mean you can see this in our political divide in our country right now right they're all everyone you know it's the first first step of dehumanization right it doesn't mean that just to be really clear that doesn't mean what this happening is totally not okay
and I'm even to the point of I'm going to fight to stop that great not saying not to do that I'm just saying you can do it with an open heart and you can do it without making the other an animal or taking steps to make them less than you
yeah and to kind of double click there on the open heart yeah which is a deeply embodied experience like fighting with an open heart without making the person you're fighting wrong yeah there's there's something that that does in our beliefs and our concepts and our strategies
but there's also something that really does in the body and I want to get a little bit more into what the question the assumption practice does with our connection to our bodies with our body yeah yeah so like I was saying before why mind is why does the sky action is fine as barley powder
it what's happening is that you're you're aware of the pain your body becomes a big part of the morality so to speak of right and wrong and like the action that you have to take because there's no other choice because everything else is painful it's painful because you're aware of your body also it just the more you see through your thoughts the more you're in your body by nature you just can't you like you can't trust those things that you can't like living your head you gotta also
their trust were the uncertain ways or some ways that they're fucking fantastic and you love them and there it's not like they'd be get thrown out they just get they just get seen through is a I guess the way I would say it is like they're not the operating system they're the like windows layer you know what I mean and so you just like oh that's not the computer that's just windows
so this is the same thing and that and that just lands you in your body naturally yeah yeah we've talked about this before but I thought you can see a thought as a form of management yeah if you really pay attention every thought you have is comes from the management of an emotional or physical state most yeah definitely yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so what does this then what does this how does this affect the voice in the head in general we talked about this a little bit so far here but I just have a kind of zoning on that piece for moments.
Jolly just takes the power right out of it just takes the power right out of the negative negative reoccurring voice in the head the reason I said most is because there's like these epiphany thoughts that happen there's like the spontaneous first time thoughts that sometimes
are management but sometimes they're just like whoa check that out there oh wow look at that or epiphanies I would not put them in the category of always being in control of trying to control or manage but all the reoccurring ones I would say for sure are and that's what starts dying when you see through your thoughts. Oh, those reoccurring managing ones you just like nonsense nonsense nonsense.
I don't know I'm like checking in with that myself and any time I've had an epiphany it's been a completely like non-conceptual physical experience the moment before it became described. Correct. Like so there's almost even a way that like the thought that is that I would call the epiphany is actually the the results of the epiphany and my tendency to want to make sense of it and then communicate it or do something with it. Yeah, but it happens very very quickly. Yeah, on that level absolutely.
Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, cool. Yeah, so lastly just since we talked about the body and the voice in the head I just want to talk about identity. What can somebody who is really deepening into this practice of questioning the assumption expect in terms of their identity?
Yeah, we touch on it a bit. We touch on it a bit and yeah, it's just that a lot of us identify ourselves with our thoughts and and when you stop when you start seeing through all your thoughts you also see through the sense of self. In fact, one can say that the sense of self is a thought there like the most basic thought is there is an I I am this I think this. That's just a thought. Really there's an I like prove it.
It's an incredibly hard if you really look into it is incredibly hard thing to prove and and it's like. So, for example, this would be I thought that there was I thought that there was some thoughts that weren't managing right. And who had that thought exactly like was I think did I say I'm going to have this thought that I have the thought or did the thought just appear and I noticed it so is it me who had the thought or was like I was receiving the thought. Yeah, exactly.
When was awareness the thing and then I claim to awareness is me you know so you can and that in that if you really go into that question if you really go into the question what am I. Which is the core thought to just that that when you see through that the identity shifts. You see the truth of the question what am I which doesn't pretty go have an answer you just have to sit in the question then all of a sudden I would say the question dissolves in a way.
The identity totally flips at that point and you the identity stops being personal and becomes universal. That is of course assuming you want your identity to shift. And that you have any idea what's going to happen when it does right that that's what you want.
Yeah, or I would also question the assumption that you would have a choice to make that a question if that question didn't like already like turn you on and flip a switch in you and I remember when that question came to me when I was introduced to that question I asked that question like 10.
10 15 times a day for fucking seven years or something I asked that question and like it took no discipline it wasn't like working out it wasn't like you know drinking enough water okay I got drink enough water that thing.
Just happened and so was it me who even had the question the first you know it wasn't even the discipline there was yeah and that was part of the scene of it when when that question dissolved I was like wasn't even me asking the question it was more it felt more like the question was asking me. The question was like I am fascinated with Joe. What a pleasure it feels like a good stopping point. Thank you Joe. Thank you man.
Thank you everybody else. Please enjoy this episode share it around like us rate us we love seeing reviews we've been getting some good ones lately and they make my heart saying every time so. Thanks. Almost and we have a YouTube channel now too Brad. Yes it is happening. Yeah yeah if you're listening to this you can watch us now on YouTube yeah I love accomplishment. Thanks. Bye.