This podcast contains graphic descriptions, explicit language, and audio clips that may be disturbing to some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I often find myself wondering how exhausting it would be to live any type of double life. If you're like me in any fashion, the life you have right now is complicated, busy, and filled to the brim with enough events to keep you occupied.
However, time and time again, I read a story, see a news report, or watch a show about an individual who appeared to be one person on the outside, but with someone else in the shadows. In a fictional sense, you look at a popular TV show like Dexter, a man who by day was helping solve crimes for Miami Metro, and then he would moonlight as a serial killer who only murdered people according to a certain code. This idea seems so outlandish for many reasons, but hey, I'm a fan of
that show. But just think about it. How truly exhausting would that be to be two different people? It seems fairly unrealistic, But unfortunately we know that people can actually maintain these facades. Look at someone like Dennis Rader or Gary Ridgway, Both men appeared to be one person to their loved ones, but to their victims, they were an entirely different person. Some would say
that they were their true self with the latter. There are many more people who have lived double lives to a less extreme extent, but more often than not, it seems as though that these Charlatans are found out. You're listening to the Apex and the Abyss, and this is the story of the Craigslist killer. More now in developing news. In the Craigslist murder, the man or left is under arrest in the case. Police say he's the same man
pictured on your right in those hotel surveillance photos. That suspect in custody is a twenty two year old medical student at Boston University. Back in the early nineties, Craig Newmark wanted to help people spread the word about local businesses and events in the San Francisco area. It started out as a simple email chain to friends, but the vastness of this word of digital mouth service grew larger and larger every day. Due to its popularity, Newmark created Craigslist in nineteen
ninety six. By the year two thousand, Craigslist had expanded outside of California to all over the world. Craigslist can be used for an array of things. If you're looking for a job, housing services, community information, or even to just chat on a discussion for him, you can do that all on Craigslist. Craig Newmark created the site for good use, but like with anything, our people out there who will try to ruin that experience, whether it be to scam, steal, or even kill. Philip Markoff was an
individual who used Craigslist to take advantage of people. But before we get into his crimes, we need to take a few steps back and find out who Philip Markoff was before all these events transpired. On February twelfth, nineteen eighty six, Philip Haynes Markoff was born. Philip lived a relatively normal life in a small town outside of Syracuse, New York. His parents, Susan and Richard, would divorce when Philip and his brother Jonathan were young, and eventually
his mother would remarry and have a daughter with her new husband. Despite this, Philip came from a family who loved him, and from all accounts, he was raised and treated right his entire life. Philip was also extremely intelligent. He was a member of the National Honor Society and numerous extracurricular activities throughout his school years. During this time in his life, those who knew him would describe him as a well behaved young man. He had goals for his
future, and he took those goals very seriously. Philip had dreams of becoming a doctor and worked hard as a pre med student at the State University of New York in Albany. He would take him pass the Medical College Admission Test, or as it's more commonly known as the MCAT, and he would then enroll at Boston University's School of Medicine. In two thousand and five. While he was still a pre med student, Philip would meet and fall in love
with a woman named Megan mc allister. Megan hailed from New Jersey, and the pair would meet when they were both volunteering at the Albany Medical Center. After a few years of dating, the pair would become engaged and they set their wedding date for August fourteenth, two thousand nine. On the surface, Philip had a charmed life. He was well on his way to becoming a doctor. He was engaged to be married to a beautiful and intelligent woman and
had his whole life ahead of him to do good. Unfortunately, Philip went down a different path. Right now, Philip Markoff is inside the Boston Police Department and he has an unsuspecting resume a twenty two year old med student scheduled to be married this summer, but police say he is the Craigslist killer. As stated previously, this story has to do with a charlatan, and that is exactly what Philip Markoff was. Not only did the young medical student have
a gambling issue, but he was also incredibly in debt. Higher education, especially in the United States, is expensive. By two thousand and nine, Philip was already one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in debt and counting. That's a lot of money for someone who is in their early twenties. Neither Philip or Meghan were currently working at the time. Philip was a full time med student and Meghan was having difficulty finding work. She suffered from back issues and
was also looking to enroll in medical school after their wedding. But no matter how many Craigslist hostings she replied to or applications she submitted, Megan couldn't get any bites on a job. Despite their constant complaining about the lack of money they had, it appears they would go out quite a bit. You see, Philip would use the money that was given to him for his student loans and living expenses to pay for everything, even unnecessary things like trips to casinos,
bars, and dinners out at restaurants. Philip would hit up casinos with Megan a few times a month to try and win spending money. According to Megan, he would typically break even and if he lost money, he would cash out. This is what she would witness, at least behind the scenes, Philip was acting in ways that were unusual to how others would describe him.
Unbeknownst to his fiance, Philip would use a private email, sex Addict five three eight five at yahoo dot com to solicit sexual encounters with men and transgendered women. However, there have been no confirmation as to whether any of these relationships led to physical encounters or if they were all strictly in the realm of cybersex. Either way, he kept this tidbit about himself private, though it would all be linked back to his ip address. Philip would then use
Craigslist to begin robbing women. On April tenth, two thousand and nine, Philip would lure Tricia Leffler to the Weston Hotel in Boston. He had found her massuse ad on Craigslist and requested her services. The pair would meet up at the hotel and once they entered the room, Philip would pull a gun on Tricia. He would then tie her hands with plastic ties to a door knob in the room. Also, to keep her from making noise, he
would place tape over her mouth. After Tricia was bound, Philip would then take about eight hundred dollars in cash from her, as well as gift cards that had a few hundred dollars on them, her debit card, and a pair of her underwear. After he robbed her, he left Tricia in the room and he left the hotel. Tricia would later state that she complied with every thing Philip said, and she believes that this is the only reason that she is still alive today. So after he left her room, Tricia would
get herself loose from the ties Philip had put her in. After the attack, Tricia would contact the police and file a report. She would even give a description of her attacker while authorities were in the midst of looking for this assailant. Philip would be targeting another victim. Four days after his attack on Tricia, Philip would contact Julissa Brisman. Julissa placed an ad on Craigslist similar to Tricia's. She too was looking for work giving massages. This time,
they would set to meet at the Marriott in Boston. This encounter seemed to go differently. It appears as though when Julissa and Philip were in the room, Philip presumably attempt to rob her. Julissa seemed to resist, and this resulted in Philip using the gun he had to beat her over the head. He would then shoot her three times, penetrating her chest, abdomen, and heart. Someone in a room close by would hear the sounds of someone screaming.
When they went to see what was going on, they found Julissa lying near the doorway of her room. Julissa would be rushed to the Boston Medical Center, but she would not survive her injuries. Two days after Philip mercilessly killed JULIUSA Brisman, he would travel to Warwick, Rhode Island. He would respond to an ad placed by Cynthia Melton The pair would meet up at the
Warwick Holiday in Express at eleven pm. When Philip entered Cynthia's room, he would pull out his gun and tell her to lay face down on the ground. Just like with his previous victims, he would bound Cynthia's hands with plastic ties. He attempted to place a ball gag into Cynthia's mouth to keep her quiet, but he was unable to She resisted him the best that she could. Cynthia would later state that she noticed that Philip was shaking as the robbery
continued. He seemed very nervous and on edge as he looked through Cynthia's belongings. He would tell her that he had no intentions of killing her and that he just wanted her money. Cynthia's husband was at the hotel, and during the attack, he would enter Cynthia's room. Philip would point his gun at Cynthia's husband, Keith, who would raise his hands and slowly back up away from Philip. Keith would accidentally trip and fall over, giving Philip the opportunity
to flee the scene. Police would quickly figure out that all of these crimes were connected. The time frame in which they all occurred, and the blatant m pointed to one person. After Julius's murder, investigators had been reviewing security footage of people going in and out of each hotel that had reported attacks. Investigators were able to obtain images of a man they believed to be the perpetrator of these crimes. Luckily for authorities, they were also able to access the
correspondence that Julissa had with her last client. Investigators were able to trace the IP address attached to that email to an apartment in Quincy, Massachusett. That apartment belonged to Philip Markov and Megan McAllister. Authorities noted the similarities of the
surveillance photos and Philip Markoff. After deciding they wanted to bring Philip in for questioning, they pulled him and his fiance, Megan, over in Walpole, Massachusetts, as they were on their way to Connecticut to spend the night at Boxwood's casino, which was about ninety minutes away from their home. Philip and his fiance would be brought into the police station for questioning regarding incidences that had
been occurring at local casinos and hotels. Philip was immediately agitated, with investigators and gave them attitude as they asked their questions. What you're about to hear shortly are snippets from Philip Markov's interrogation. In the beginning of their discussions, Philip has read his rights by the detectives conducting the interview. Philip immediately once an attorney present, but doesn't seem to understand that he would need to bring
in representation at this stage in the investigation. Authorities explained to him that they will only provide an attorney if in fact an individual is arrested, which at this time Philip is not. Hi, there's a blank space. I've read and understand the above rights is explained to you by me and put my name Detective Harris, and I will only make a statement at this time without a lawyer being present. Would you like to speak to us now? We're all
to some questions we have to ask you as well. It's up to yourself and it's a decision you have to make. Well, it's about to a series of incidents that have gone on and we just have some questions. As you well aware of, there's been some reports of some robberies and a homicide, and we've been following a ton of leads as a result of that stuff, and you're a person of interest at this point, and we'd like to speak to you relative to that. Okay, maybe can you get me a
lawyer? Can I get you a lawyer? Yeah, you're a right to get you a lawyer yourself. And well, I don't I don't know, I don't know where from. Yeah, that's I mean, is that your decision that you'd rather have a lawyer than to speak with me? I mean, yeah, I don't really know what's but I probably should. I don't want to say something. It's up to yourself. Is that you a request that you want to learn? Sure? I mean, can you get me
more? Well? Would you just so we'll understand approach under saying what's going on? Would you like to have an attorney here today and then continue some questioning or would you like to not to speak at all? And you can get an attorney because I mean, you can make a phone call, you can try to have an attorney year, and you can go through the proceedings
with the Attorney president that you wish. Yes, so I feel more comfortable on the Attorney president if you could probably some one of your next rights is you have a right to make a phone call. We'll let you make a phone call. And if you want to try to find an attorney and have an attorney respond to and you can just have somewhere here does this we have an attorney that does this? Or you know? Yeah, you know? Apprent, stand, I don't know what you twice you want to consult with
an attorney before we move forward? Is that correct? Sure? All right? Good type of Kenny for the record, just so let's clip. You're asking us to try to provide you an attorney you don't have. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't I don't have a liar, I don't know where to get there. And you absolutely don't want to talk to us unless you have in the twenty before we talk to us. Because the
thing it is is, I don't be very frank with you. I'm sure you have some idea of what we're looking at you, right, you have some idea what we're talking about. Not really, Well, you live in the area and you've been watching the news. I don't really watch things to read the newspapers, No, not at all. No, people minds don't really watch because you don't watch the news Eye. Well, the detective talked about it briefly, that there's a number of incidents that have happened in the
area. You have physical description, and that you were a white male with light colored here has triggered our interest that you to some a certain extent. But as you can imagine, there's about probably eighty thousand other people that are about your height, about your facial features, about your color. Yeah, you're a person of interest because of these things and some other things we would like to talk to about. That. I'm gonna talk to you if you
assist not have an attorney. That one are the other things. Well, until we get to this, foreman, we can't talk to you about anything. Okay, Well, we have to. We have to. We have to make sure that your rights. I mean, we're gonna be zealous and making sure that your rights to preserve, all right, That is our obligation to the law and our obligation to you. So I would like, I
would like, can you provide me with an attorney. We're not going to provide you an attorney, will make it will allow you to make a phone call and you can inquire you Okay. It says you'll promim me in form. Well, that's that's that's the processors. That says that like if in fact you ended up in the court, if you were intigen, the courts find your indigen, then they would provide you an attorney. That's in a different proceeding this. Right now, you're like number one, you're not under
arrest. Correct, But you said I can have a liar right, Well, the form is you have a right to an attorney. Okay, we don't actually give people attorney. You can hire an attorney to move forward or at some point if you were arrested, I don't think I can afford to return. Well, I mean that's you know. I mean that's that phone calls could be made to a company, the public Defender's office, and maybe they can make one available to you. However, you're not the deciding fact
to whether or not you could afford an attorney. The courts are. But the bottom line as far as this interview goals, Phillips. So we're clear as you have a right to have an attorney with you while you're being questioned. If you so choose, okay, or you can shut down. You don't want to speak to us because you want to take one of your take advantage of one of your rights and get an attorney, and you can postpone this till another time. The way that works, if we're going to provide
you with an attorney, we being the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. That means that there's a process in place. If you were arrested, brought before a court and you tell the court that hey, look at I can't afford an attorney and I want one, and it's at that point they'll either deem you indigent where you absolutely because of the information you provide them you cannot afford one,
and they'll provide you with a public defender. However, if they find that you have the means either the family or other areas to a florid an attorney, then they'll tell you to get into Tuney before the next court day to hire ato any soul. But right now you can you know, we can see what's going on if you want an attuny. That means we shut down. Okay, but I can stop at any time, right you can. Well, that's another one of your rights. If you understand that is we
read, you can proceed. You can talk to us. It's your right. You have to wave it, though, you have to tell me that, Hey, look at I understand my rights fully and I'm willing to talk to you, and I can stop at any time. Also, that's when you started fill it out. And is that your understanding that you're willing to talk to me? You want to wave death? Well, you said I
can stop at any time. You can't stop at anytime? Well, I just want to hear what's going on from now, So what we can start The detectives begin telling him what he is actually being questioned about after he agrees to speak with them. As as I alluded to early on about death, there's been a lot of stuff going on, and as a result of that stuff, there's been hundreds of tips coming in yet. And if you haven't read the paper, you really don't have a close to what we're talking about.
No, I really don't read the paper and watch the eas. So in the last week or two, you haven't heard anything about some stuff that's been going on in and around Boston. We're gotting creates lists now, I really really don't watch the names. Okay, Well, just let me give you a brief synopsis of what we're doing that. Okay, Okay, there's been a series of incidents robberies of young girls in and around the Boston area, and as a result, with the Boston Police Department and other agencies have
asked the public for some help. They actually printed some surveillance photographs of people that they thought might be involved in this case, and as a result of that asking the press for some help, it generated an awful lot of phone calls. People are saying, he's I think the guy who lives next to what to me might might be a person of interest. Somebody else has called. You know, I work in such a such a place and you know, just dude, who who comes in here every day? You know what
it is? You know, you know what I'm saying. So we are following up each and every lead that comes across the falls. I can tell you as I sit here in my limited capacity, there's a photograph in one of the surveillance photographs, so a couple of us available photographs. There's a strong likeness and image to your self phone one of the reasons why you are
here. The detective goes on to ask Philip more about himself. They discussed the fact that he is a medical student and that he lives in Quincy with his fiancee Megan. After some chit chat, the detective asks Philip if he has been to any hotels recently. Tell me this, Have you ever been to some of the hotels downtown Boston in the past week? Is all not in the past? Wreak? Okay? And before the past week, maybe
two weeks? You tell me, Well, all my dad was my dad and his wife were in Boston maybe in February, and they stayed at a hotel. Okay, in what hotel is that? I don't remember. It's one of the ones near a parential center. You have a potential sound is that the last time, Philip, that you're at a hotel? I believe it? All? Right there? Could you have been there like recently into don't we call it? I could have like walked through the lobby? Okay?
Do you have a memory of doing that recently? I don't have a memory of it off the time of Yeah. Right, Um, if you think for a second, is there a possibility that maybe you did do something like that walk through the lobby? Yeah? Maybe I don't remember. What would cause you, as a medical student from being able to walk to the lobby. Well, the Financial Center. Isn't it connected to all the hotels? So that's to go from like walk through the pencil center. Yeah,
don't you have often walked through hotel hobbies? Um? Yeah? What hotel is connected to the potential center? And I don't I don't really, I don't really know thatself. Well do you have do you have? What? What brings you to the potential set if you don't have been there a handful of times? Yeah? Is it just like coffee shop? At? What brings you down there? All those reasons? Yeah? All of those, Um, but no one, no one hotel jumps at I would at you
as well. Not really, you do have a specific memory of being in one in that area when your mum and dad went intel. Yeah they were in one okay? And where were your parents? Felt Saracus, Syracuse? Okay? And how long have you been in the in the Boston alo? What's what year are you going to be? I'm finishing out my second year, the second year, all right? And you have you lived at that Quincy address since then? Since I started an I lived in South Boston and
then I moved to Quincy. Um, how does it feel to be wrapped up in this stuff. I mean, this is this your first time being involved at this annoys that you worked at the youth court. What do you think about about being dragged in here on it? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on, okay. And as you know, I mean, if you have some familiarization with the courts, especially, it's something that's I'd say it's it's an investigation. You know the unit you're
now did you see the sign when you walked in the door. No, it says the homicide unit. And I introduced myself as a homicide detective. So that tells you at least something something that we're talking some serious stuff here, okay. Um, and following the tips and ever since going back to the OJ case, the sensationalism of the OJ case which causes the public to reach wand and following leads, we're kind of like, you know, we're at, you know, a point where people call stuff in and we follow
up on it, regardless of what it is. Because in the courts people will say, well, you know, forty five phone calls, commit you followed up one or two of them? Why didn't you do them all? And I can tell you is that there's a strong likeliness to one of the
photographs and the surveillance photos, such as yourself. So I was just maybe hoping that you had some explanation to say if I gave you a date a couple of weeks ago, if you would to tell me there's a reason why you were there and the person in the photograph was deemed to be you, then maybe you have a logical explanation for being in that area. But you don't seem to call to mind, well, I want not to eat a chasecake factory a couple of weeks ago, which is right there? Can't remember
do you remember the day that might have been? Although I don't I don't remember that. I understand because sometimes I don't even know that you know, day of the week. It is what data is now. But as far as the you know, going on to a restaurant, people might say, well, i'd like it there on Wednesday nights because they have a good special Do you happen to remember, don't. I don't go out to you much.
And I went out with Meggan and a couple of friends and we go shopping there sometimes the Perdential Center. All right, when you say it was a couple of weeks ago. I don't remember when of us. During the interrogation they bring up the Weston Hotel and asked Philip was he there in the last few weeks? Was there any reason or anything at all to cause you to have been yet in the last couple of weeks? I mean maybe if I was walking through it? Yeah, well, well, can you call
something to mind, Philip, what would have brought you? We need to walk through it. I'm not sure you're gonna place the Weston? Can you picture the Weston now? Can you get you where it is? It's been like that's next to the financial Center, isn't it. Yes, Well, if you look at the Findential Center in the cheesecakes, have you walked up Punting Day have on the outside the left the cheesecake is on the left hand side, and then moving forward straight inbound, the Weston would be up anybody
inside? Can you picture it? I guess it sounds familiar. I think it connects to the Practial Center. Yeah, well like beause I think when my brother was staying there, I walked back and forth. I think it's a connection the footbridge. I guess I don't I don't remember. Yeah, but you have no clear memory you're being here in the last couple of weeks. I don't. I don't remember. No, Clay remember No, there's another hotel dom moving closer to the cheesecake factory. They marry it. Okay,
can you picture that at all? Yeah, I've eaten at that part there which the end of that place. It's a sports bark. I watched a Red Sox playoff game with yeah, man and pizza playoff game. So last year was that the last time you were there at the bar? I think so. I'm not sure, becauld you have been there in the last week, until it's possible. I don't remember. I don't think I wasn't I wasn't a champions I don't think it's champions boys up. Yeah, I
mean you were. I went there. I there, But then a couple of times, we're pretty shocked. You unless it's too the way it is on TV with medical students and stuff, you just flat out. I mean, it's only been a week or two. You don't even re member you're being there in the last week or so, And though I haven't really done anything last week. Philip is holding strong that he has no recollection of being
at the hotels that the detective is asking him about. Actually, he doesn't seem to have any memory of what he's been up to the last few weeks. I don't really remember what I was doing sixteenth anykindn't remember hotels where, anywhere? Anywhere? And I'm trying to help you really doesn't help. No, I don't think I fifteen fourteen, a couple of weeks gone in the moment. Days. No, And again I can understand and for the most but we have such hectic lifestyles and I can't imagine what yours is like.
There's a medical student with remember when day in the next, But I mean some of you doesn't frequent hotels only when parents or the family's in and around town. I would think that maybe you'd remember that you have a reason to be about, you know, because I tell you something. The photographs are pretty pretty clear um as to why people would call suggesting, you know, to take a look at you. Um. But you don't have any member being in any of these places in the last couple of weeks. Is that
true? Or are you saying it could be possible. I don't really remember. To be honest, I mean, I might have been there when I was at the cheesecake factory or something. I don't remember. Well, you wouldn't have gone over there got a room afterwards? Why your college student? And it sounds like your money is lacking, So you wouldn't have gone over
to get a room with begging? Correct? When? Whatnot any night in the last couple of weeks, Well, we're going to We're going to get a room of Foxws tonight, or you wouldn't going to fox I booked the room tonight. Yeah, okay, you booked a room down there? Yeah, but what hotel do you don't? Do you remember my FOXWS hot Town? That's that's the neighborhood sam jam Ground. Okay. Do you gamble sometimes? Yeah? Yeah, so I get discounts in town rooms. Oh good.
The detective then asked Philip what are he's thinking about during this questioning process? What goes through your mind? Is as I'm asking all these questions. I know you're a pretty great kid. What goes through your mind? I know you're trying to you said that you you know, you understand what's happened, and you're trying to figure out what's going on. What's going through your mind. Do you have an understanding of what this is all about? I
understand what you're time. Do you understand Yeah, I think I understand how we're flowing up and stuff. And you know, in this homicide business and in these serious investigations robbery m ninety nine percent of the time investigators, we spend trying to prove who did not commit the crime as opposed to who did do the crime. You're following, um, And that's where we spend an
awful lot of work. We have to cross our teas and dought our eyes, and especially in a case like this, we reach out to the public and ask for health. It makes things a lot more tedious for us. And as you sit there and somebody who's a person of interest because of the images and the likenesses on the on the surveillance footage is it kind of makes our jump that much more difficult, you know, And we appreciate your cooperation. But it's serious business. It's serious business, and I can tell you
this. And as I've said homicide a couple of times, clearly you must think that it involves a murder. I've also mentioned the murder robbery and involves Rover and sometimes Philip, when things happen, it's a pretty ugly situation. We don't mean them to happen. You know, they may happen accidentally. But as kids, when we do something stupid or we start to get out of a road, we should we get some advice that, you know, the time, if some shit happens and it's ugly, it's it only makes
things worse if you're lying about it. So if you're affording an opportunity to just be truthful and explain, attempt to explain your side the story, so to speak, it just makes things a lot easier, uh, you know, moving forward, and especially when you have complicated situations, when there's lines attached to it, it just kind of makes things really not that much more complicated, and it's difficult. It's difficult to rationalize, you know, why
things happened, you know. Um And again that's why it's kind of like for me to try to ask you to remember if you're in a hotel myself. Now we're in a limited capacity and you know, so much money. If I was at a hotel, everybody something that, Yeah, sure, I remember that I was down at the the marriage just three nights ago. I was with, you know, a hot looking girl. We had a couple of drinks and I was trying to get a room or something. I
mean, those are memories that we'd always have. But to you, I mean, if you're going to Foxwoods all the time, maybe that's the explanation for why you kind of call it to mind h for not being there. But then again, if you're willing to work with me and try to try to, you know, figure out if you will, idea that might explain why was Sitney in today? But if you sit there and you just have no absolute, positively no remember you're being there, it just it just doesn't
help things. You know. Well, I said, I have no specific memory. I'm talk through Yeah, but that's what I mean. I mean, like I've walked through there often, I don't I don't know specifically. Is there a possibility that you walk to there in the last couple of weeks? Hey, I said that. At this point in the conversation, the detectives bring up Craigslist and ask Philip if he uses the site for anything,
and also to list all of his email addresses that he has used. The conversation then turns back to Craigslist and if you listen closely, you can tell by the sound of his voice that Philip is growing more and more impatient during this interview. So let's talk about Craigslist. Was the last time you're on Craigslist? I do not remember? I mean again, can we do that? Was I on it two weeks ago? A month ago? I don't remember? Could you have been? I mean, that's the next question.
I guess. Yeah. You know, a lot of times, Philippin, you're gonna be with me, And it might sound stupid, but you know
a lot of times we know the answers to the questions. But it's just to affording you an opportunity to, you know, be completely fourth white with me, and just in the interest of helping to get this done, okay, helping to clear your name or to you know, as I said, we spend an awful lot of times funny to prove you did not comment, you know, so if you could work with me a little bit, I'm
trying to I know you. So let me ask you that once, when you think it was the last time, you may have I don't know, no idea, I don't know. What does that indicate that it's been that long? They just don't have a memory of it or I'm not sure with that any cans. So if I was asking you what you want it this morning, that would be a no. I was not on it this morning. What about yesterday? I don't know. I don't know. I don't
remember. Okay, So as far as that goes, now, have you had any problems that you know with some females lately in any of the in any situation. Now, heart of this investigation involves some women who have been assaulted, and that's what caused the police to be spoiled. That's what caused us to you know, post some photographs looking for help because it all started in some rooms. The detective asks if there's anything Philip can tell them to
help them in their investigation. Is there anything that you can tell us that might help us in what I'm asking you about. I don't think so. And again we're kind of at a loss here because you have absolutely no clue, according to you, about what's been going on in and around the city of Boston be guiding women who have been assaulted. Correct, no clue? Yeah, I haven't been no clue. I ever seen anything in the paper.
No, that's that's true. That's true. I have seen any of the paper and never seen anything in the news in the last couple Now, I really don't watch them. Yeah, girlfriends would not have brought it to your attention. Geez, look at this I just saw you know. No, I don't really watch talk. So no conversations with anything with anybody in your circle of travel that may mention just to what's going on here? Right? Um? What about outside to see of Boston? Any any hotels other
than fox Was that you may have visited lately? No other than fox Was. Have you been in Rhode Island at all lately? Well, I guess okay, do you stop? Have you stopped going through Rhode Island at a hotel? A little maybe to get gass at a hotel? At a hotel? Yeah, well that's what I asked. Did you stopped? I don't think so. On the way through. You don't think so. You don't think you're at a hotel Rhode Island, I don't think so. Okay,
you seem to be getting a little frustrated. Yeah, you're getting asking me the same question. Well, I moved on from the Weston and moved on from to marry it and now I'm in the state of what Island. You say that you go to Foxwoods all the time, and I'm just asking it. Maybe you stopped into a hotel of what Island. Maybe I don't know. Okay, what do you think? What do you think? What do
you think I'm going with all this? Don't what are your thoughts? Talk to me for a minute instead of answering all the questions, tell me what your thoughts are. Tell me what you feel right now, because you seem to get a little frustrated with me, and I can understand, I can
understand where you're coming from. Pel Let me say this to you. Okay, If in fact you have the guy in the photographs, that's one thing, because you could just be simply that guy passing to the hotel, passing to little lobby, somebody that's all with your girlfriend at the Chief Tape factory, walking through going to a parking lot to get your kind of goal. It could be that simple. But it also could be the guy who just left hotel room with something a ride and you're leaving there and you are a
suspect who has a story to be told. Whatever happened in the hotel room that speaks to a certain set of facts. If you happen to be the guy that's leaving that hotel room, it's picked up on surveillance cameras. You may have another piece of that story and you could just throw that on the table right now, and that may explain things. Or you could be,
as we said, just simply that guy passing through. But is it more than a coincidence if you're that guy who just happened to pass to the Weston Weston Hotel, and again maybe that same guy who passes to the Marriott, the same guy who maybe passes to a hotel in warwork. It could be. It could be because it seems that maybe these are things you do, but it could also be more than that, and it could be something that
you know, who knows what happens. Maybe some girls have pissed at you, maybe whatever's going on, whatever your thing is, maybe no who knows? Who knows unless you throw it out there. If that's you, the guy that's actually been in some of those wounds with some of these females, and maybe they, you know, trying to set you up with something. Who knows unless you tell us. I clearly don't know, because I wasn't
there. But if you say you're simply the guy that may have passed to it, you don't even have a clear memory to be able to tell me that. You know, you do seem to frequent fox with because you seem to get on there a lot according to yourself. Right, Is there any other reason other than just maybe I passed? Do you have a thing you hook up with girls that you meet and you just don't want to megan to
know about it, which is perfectly understandable. Over the years, a lot of times guys sitting there they want to tell a story, but they don't want to chimp in relationships. They don't want to ruin an engagement, they don't want to end up in divorce court because they have these things for you know, they were girlfriend on the side of something, so that may prevent them for being completely honest and something like that. That's that's like a barrier
in this business. If it's that simple and that's what throws me off, you know, then trust me, the thing to do is just to be honest and throw it out there and explain why this is going on. Explain why you're sitting here on the homy side unit. You know at three o'clock and you afternoon. There's an explanation for everything. You know, things happen for a reason, Philip. We can't have back what happened, but we can't make it right. And how do we make it right? Just by
being honest? Just by being honest when we start dancing around the tooth, that's why things get all kind of discombobulated, and you kind of look at me, you get frustrated. He I answered that already, And that's what happens when you're dancing around the tooth. I think you know. I think
you know that. You may have been in some of these places. I think you know that, and you're just not clear as to how you want to tell me, you know, And the best thing to do when the ship hits the fan, as I said earlier, also, it's just a man up. Look at this has happened. This is what happened, but this is why it happened. It's not who I am. I didn't do those things. This is what actually happened. This is my story. I'm not a stupid little shit. I know what happened, and I know why
it happened, and I can make it right by just being honest. That honesty is the key to you know, just move forward, and it opens up all those different doors when you're honest with yourself and it actually be honesty is what explains our behavior. Without honesty, one sided stories can be pretty ugly, can be real ugly because all we have is the evidence of the scene, and that scene can be ugly and can speak to you can speak to ugliness. But does the answer what we're here? You follow me again?
You just know, and the tape doesn't pick that up. I'm so sure I'm following you, you're follow me. You don't see what I'm saying.
I mean, yeah, but if we have an incident in the in the Western Hotel and some girl is there and she's irate and she's pissed because of this, and because of that, that's her version, you say, if you move on to the next girl, into the next girl, But there was somebody else that was there, some person that left, some person that's walk into the lobby afterwards, who has a story to be told. Finally, Philip is asked again what his involvement is in the slew of assaults
and robberies that have taken place at various hotels. His frustration grows, and he inevitably asks for an attorney. It's not easy, Philip, and things happen. Stuff happens, but we can't make it right. Fall back to a long we you know, brought up little eyes turned into big lies, and big lives turns into you know, big bags of of of of shit, so to speak, you know, But if we step up, speak from the hot Hey, okay, listen, nobody ever meant for things to
go the way they went. But this is what happened. Maybe maybe maybe it was an accident, maybe it was maybe you were provoked, or maybe you know, things things gone ugly and you were a victim here at some point, you know, But who knows. Unless you speak up, who knows who'll live in them? Right now, we're left from one side of
the table, one set of facts. I'm just asking you, Philip, if you can find it in yourself to man up and step up, if that's you, that's beyond that casual stroll through the hotel, to speak to it, to speak to what might have happened, what might have went wrong, Because it's happening. It's happening, and I think you deserve it to yourself, just to step up and lay it on the table. You know,
it is what it is. There's no making it right. But we can end it with the truth, you know, and explain pretty justification to why it happened. I'm gonna ask you, Philip, the first incident that I spoke to in the Western hotel, a girl was robbed. Do you have anything to do with that now, Philip? Well, I just answered, there's a girl in an hotel room that was tied up in up in the Weston. That's her story. Are you in that room at night?
I didn't tie the robin. You didn't tire or about anybody because you have been in that room and maybe somebody else did. No, No, is there any do you have an understanding of what it is I'm talking about to you when I'm asking you just to step up and I'm listening to what you're saying, it doesn't really apply to him? No, okay? And it was just like, can't my main story? I don't know. I'm telling you a story. I don't have anything to add to it. Okay,
Well, I'm telling you a story. Is if that right now? In this story? Your role in the story is you're the casual stroll up Maybe, well, I don't I'm not in the story. I don't know. Well, well, you are out in the sense that you're sitting here as a story unfolded prior to your arriving here. Your role in the story is that of maybe somebody who passed love to love. That's you, will correct. I don't know how to answer that. It is. Again, it's
only a scenario that I'm applying to this story as it's unfolding it. And I'm asking that if you're the guy that was more more than the casual stool that may have been up in the room, somehow, some way, some shape before could entice into a room and something good ugly, maybe you have an explanation as to what might have happened up there. I don't really know what you're talking about. And I could, I mean, this is why I wish I had a higher there. I could. I could just be
like nodding along and agreeing to something there, and that's fine. I don't really mean that that didn't happen. And again, Philip, you are alluding to a lawyer, and we need to, you know, expound upon that you if you want a lawyer. We are stopping this interview, I know,
because that's when you're right. It's okay, that's a right that you have if you that unsure of proceeding with well, the way you're the way you're phrasing things, it seems like I could just be nodding or saying yes, and the way you're questioning me, I could be agreeing to anything saying yes or no. I don't really Well, that's why I wish someone was here to like tell me that I'm am I nodding my head or something.
I'm agreeing to something you're saying no, that's fine, and you know why I wish I had one, but I don't really going to call for a life. Well, that's fine. You know what. We're going to stop this interview because you wanted at that's your choice. You want Atty correct I yes, if you're just gonna keep asking me the same questions over and over, okay and again, it's just so you're clear as far as you're nodding agreeing to anything, you know what's going on. You're not agreeing or nodding
to anything that you don't want to. You've understood the question. So far, you've alluded to having attorney present, so we're going to give you that, okay. In a separate room, Megan, Philip's fiance, was questioned during her interview. She has asked basic questions about Philip and their life together. Megan would typically spend a week or two at home in New Jersey, but the other time she lived with Philip in the apartment in Quincy. The
detective would ask a lot of questions about their financial situation. They would learn that Meghan was having difficulty finding part time work. She would turn to services like Craigslist to find a job, but she had little luck. So due to the lack of income, Philip would take care of their finances with loans he took out for school. Eventually, the conversation turns as to why Megan and Philip are being questioned. Can I ask what this is about? Yet?
I know? Sure, Okay, We're investigating some activity from the computer radio house for online massage services. Online massage services, yes, someone that's just the computer when your home. There have been calls asking you know how I said about the nail salon. There have been calls from that guy that you know massage like, can I schedule a massage and now massage with nail
service. We've gotten calls like that. That's the kind of that's the question that I asked you, or any of the calls explicit either you know, trending a nature because we're just like three or four times now just like, oh can I schedule a massage? Something like that. Megan believes that they
may be referring to her Internet searches looking for spas and salons. She would state during her interview that she has a bad back, so much so that it has affected her ability to work certain jobs, and she frequently gets massages, but the detective was referring to soliciting services via Craigslist. Megan would talk about how their home phone would get a lot of prank calls or people calling and asking about services, but Philip would brush them off and eventually tell her
not to answer them anymore. Later in the interview, detectives would show Megan a photograph and ask her if she recognizes the person in the picture. The individual in the picture, where is this? I'm not asking the individual in the picture that looks like though it looks like Phil okay, And I asked you to look at another another picture. Who's that I cannot tell? Does it look like anyone you recognize? Um? It took look a like a lot of people. I recognize that maybe Felt, may not. I mean
that that looks heavier than felt. And just look at those aren't his shoes either? Okay? How about the jacket fill on the leon the jackets that, yeah, okay, may be seen Phil that lether jacket on recently? Um he where is it? Okay? And um, when you look at that picture there the first one he said, it looks like Philip sept We just nope, which one in which time? We're gonna look at the first one that he said it looks like phil is a photo that is lifted as
camera two six four, camera two six four. It has a date on it at four fourteen o nine and ten h six. It looks like forty four at five say. It's got a little green dot and it's in it's encased in a sheet, protected sheet protected correct. Second photo that I had you look at is a photo of the best way to identify it is it has a sign that says tell you says horo h a r you correct. The person getting on an escalator and you said that's the one that looks like
a lot of people said, correct. And the last photo that I actually look at his camera two six four four fourteen o nine and it looks like it's just ten or six forty five PM. Correct. And you stated that that looks like Phil nine rose a fourteen to die was at last week today, Tuesday night. So you believe that that person in his four number one looks just like phellows that? Correct? You can take it out of the sheet protective scifically lay that looks similar. But he does not have those shoes.
And the black guy looks heavier. That aren't jacket. He has a similar leather jacket. He does have a leather jacket, but those aren't his shoes. He's all, what kind of shoes those up? They just look like big black I don't know, they don't look like shoes he has. I know, you know all the shoes he wears New Balance Makers ninety nine. Time does you want to fair of shoes like that that he just doesn't wear? Not that I know nothing at all? Were out where that was
though. Yeah, we'll get to the And I just actually look at one other photo. This is a photo outside it's camera two twenty two outside of the T station. Is that individual a familiar too? It looks a little bit like him, not exactly. Now he looks heavier, Okay? And is it if the photo was more clear? Like if you this is obviously a photo that's taken off some type of a digital image. The photo is clear. Do you think that might help you? Ah? No, it
wouldn't help you. Now, I mean he looked that looks heavier than Bell. So I don't know. And I just have one more. I'm gonna actually look at this one is dated four, fourteen or nine and ten or four it's his camera twelve. I just actually, everyone look at that photo. You you looked at the photo. I noticed you kind of made the face. Yeah, well the hair looks different, so I don't know. Um where was that again? Did you say at a tea station? Well?
One who was? The last one was at a T station? So the last one was the last one was inside the lobby of a of a hotel? Oh? Okay, Marryott? Yes? What which Marryott was? Ust? Okay? Squid? Have you seen any of these forms? Have you watching the new was the last couple of days at all? Have you read any of the Boston newspapers. No, because I've been in New Jersey. Oh that the guy. My mom actually told me. There's a guy
you know going around and the hotel right right. So what I'm asking you is is we're following the lead, you know from the IP address in your apartment. Okay, they made a date with an individual at a hotel. And then the first photo I showed you is an individual at that hotel and showed up at that time that the date was made. And he told me that it looks like Phil. Correct. If I showed you that picture on a digital image, it was somewhat more clear. To that help you am?
I? Okay, I'd be willing to look at that on a computer and showed you on a divil with digital image. I mean, so what does the massage therapist you have to deal with? The guy people telling the women? Well, there's only been the women killed. Okay, is I'm only one person killed? I know it was a massage therapist. No, we didn't play that, said we. When we asked you what I asked you work as a tender. Mart I had asked you about any you told
me that you haven't got some crank calls into your apartment. I asked you if any of those calls were either threatening or sexual or anything else in nature, and you say that they were not like that, that there was a present that needed to be mentally unstable, right, correct. And then I asked you if um uh, there had been any calls relative to massage or anything like that. You said, well, you know, yeah, there were a couple of calls that people started asking for massage, which you know,
it's kind of a strange call. Uh yeah, yeah, and that and the nail thing, I mean, yeah, okay, And we then you asked us basically why you here. We told you that they uh an email email was sent from an IP address in your apartment, okay, to set up an appointment with the massous at a local hotel. And the time and time frame of that appointment coincides with these surveillance photos of the individual.
Okay. And here's that's that's something that we'll get to the bottom, get to the bottom of, okay, Okay, But you know, from this point, we'll show you some surveillance photos and you believe it looks like Phil and photo next, the detectives in Meghan would discuss the type of shoes and clothes that Philip owned in more detail. Megan seems to believe she knows Philip very well. When pressed, she tells them that she speaks to him at
least two times a day. She also notes that he doesn't own a gun, and that the person they are showing her in these photos, well, some of them just don't look like Philip to her. Little does she know that this is her fiance and all of the surveillance photos. Megan, at this point in the interview begins to get nervous. She wants to know more about why she is there. You ever seen Philip a firearm? No? Never, never? And if there was a firearm India house, would you
be aware of it? I would at he said you didn't wanted to issue us Yeah, well, I mean he's very open about everything, so he doesn't care, you know, searching the apartment, so I know of everything that's going on. How about the car? Would you be familiar with what's in the car and the trunk of the car. What with what's in his car? Yeah? Because when he picked me out from the train station,
you know, put my luggage in it. And today when we were doing and put our luggage in it. I mean, I think I don't think there's much in there for allow you to try now, okay, and no further questions. I mean, is this Do you think this is a guy that's been in the hotels or is there like a million you bought at because this is very worrisome, you know, I can't understanding concerned. I think I think you know. One of the things that's most morrisome for us is
that an online email was initiated from an IP address in your apartment. The individual that we believed that showed up to complete that online lass a date is the individual in the picture and the first picture you looked at you thought he looked quite similar to Phil. Okay, and Maggie. So for us, I did this have to do with demastus? Yeah? Shout what you're saying out And you've been with Phil for a couple of years now and you're engaged, yes, and you love him? Yes? Okay? Would you trying
to protect him if he did something wrong? Would you lie for him? I would not lie for him if he did something like this, now, I wouldn't something like what like like what you're telling me. If he's out killing people. I don't think actually said that. I don't know what happened to the missus. Can you tell me what happened to the missus? He's one of the institusative and robbed in another instance to be guilt. Okay, okay, I just I would never ever ever think he would ever do something
like that. Every that's being honest, like I you know, he doesn't get angry often. He's not an angry a person. He's a medical stupid you know here's and you know, sometimes things happen where you know, the attention is not to harm anybody financial gain and sometimes other things happen where you know. Now he complains about money all the time that you know, we have no money. So he's not gonna rob something. That's not how he's gonna go about getting money. He'll go to the casino to try to win
money. He's not there ross does he win? What um? Sometimes? Does he lose? He does love sometimes if he's lose, does we do home? If he keeps winning then and the way casinos usually work as the author in the favor, but they usually win more often than the player does. Corrects right right, right, he doesn't I mean he if he wins, he doesn't win that much. But if you ever had any if you would have to characterize how he plays. Does he beat the casino most of
the time? Well, he breaks even? He breaks even usually. I mean if he he'll win more than most people. I think. But you mentioned his cell phone and some of the bills that you have. Do you pay your own cell phone? Or does he pain my parents? Your parents? How about his parents? Is in any time as any of the services, any of his services even cut off with you? Yeah? Yeah, Um, when I was home last about a month ago. Um, the BlackBerry he has, he paid for internet service on it, he wasn't getting
internet service on it. So he went to Verizon and I guess they fixed it. I don't know if they completely fixed it. I think he's still but for like a month or two, he wasn't getting internet service on the on the Blackbird. At any time, have you used any type of you know phone cards or or you know phones they did just five minutes for you know what they called like the minute phones and any of these you know drug stores or anything like that. Have you ever seen have you ever seen any
of those? Now a time when his BlackBerry was completely out of service now, just just like I said. When I was home last month, he was having these problems where he wasn't getting the emails. He wasn't he was paid for the internet service on the BlackBerry end, he wasn't getting it. So he went to Brison twice. Um, I think Brison fixed it. They said, if it keeps doing this, you know, come back and they'll send them a new phone. So I don't know what happens. That's
when I went home. So Megan then asks should she be afraid to leave the police station with Philip when and if Philip is released? I have no further questions. Uh, no further questions. Would you be willing to if we do have some other questions to come back in for any sure? I mean, is there any reason for me to be like scared to go home with this person might be outside at this time. We're gonna make some decisions. We're gonna we're gonna actually we aren't always going on outside this world.
So like, I just do you have any reason to fear him? No, not at all. But I'm just you're worrying me. Well, I can see this is a very serious business and you know, we don't need to worry or we don't ever love you in anyway. Is pretty serious, and you know that's what we do. We investigate on the side too, right, I mean, are there other people that ractie hotels that could have
done that? So that's why we have an ongoing active investigation. Okay, I know, I'm just wondering if if he's one of two or one of you know, thirty. Well, all I know is, you know, just following an investigation logically the way that we do. You know, an online internet dates so to speak, or appointment was made from a computer in your apartment at the same time that an individual that resembles your fiance shows up
at the hotel with a crime of curd. Okay, was at the hotel the crime of curd Philips Surviving victims would be brought in and asked to look at lineup photos. Without a doubt or hesitation, these women picked Philip Markov's picture out as the man who attacks them. This point, police would arrest and charge Philip Markov with robbery and murder. When they would take pictures at his booking, they would note that there was blood on Philip's loafers, that
blood would turn out to be Julisa Brisman's. When authorities would search Markov's apartment, they would find the gun that he used to rob women in a hollowed out Gray's Anatomy of Human Body textbook. They would also find items belonging to victims hidden in his apartment, as well as a bag of plastic zip ties. Investigators knew without a shred of doubt that they had their man, and
they stopped him before he harmed anyone else. During his arraignment at the end of April of two thousand and nine, Philip would plead not guilty to his charges. A few days later, after his arraignment, Philip would attempt to commit suicide. He was placed on suicide watch for a time, but eventually believed to not pose a threat to himself. After a while, Philip would tell his family to just forget about him when they would visit him. According
to his family, Philip seemed depressed. However, it is unclear if this was dug of the fact that he actually felt remorse for his actions, or if he was just upset that he had been caught. In the beginning, Meghan would stand by Philip and his family she truly didn't believe that he was capable of the things that he was accused of. However, as the evidence mounted and it looked more and more likely as though he was guilty, Meghan
had to make a decision. In two thousand and nine, she would decide that it would be in both of their best interests to end their relationship, and that she didn't plan on seeing him for a long time after this visit, if ever again. The following day after this conversation, Philip would attempt suicide for a second time. On August fifteenth, two ten, what would have been the day after his first wedding anniversary, Philip Markoff would commit sue
side in his jail cell. Over the course of his incarceration waiting for trial, Philip would fashion and a knife made from a pen and a piece of metal. He would also gather toilet paper and plastic trash bags. When he knew no one would check on him for some time, Philip would slash his ankles, neck, and legs deep enough to hit his arteries. He would wrap his wounds in the plastic bags, most likely to contain the blood,
so that he would not be caught right away. He would then swallow a wad of toilet paper before placing a plastic bag over his head and then additionally wrapping gauze around the bag to suffocate himself. When the guard's nocus Philip hadn't moved in a while, they went in to check on him. When they lifted the blankets off of him, it is said that he was completely covered in blood. On the wall of his cell, he wrote Megan's name.
Markov died behind bars Sunday morning after an apparent suicide. The twenty four year old former Boston University medical student reportedly was found in his cell with a bag over his head and a kind of major artery while a waiting trial for the murder of Julissa Brisman, a woman prosecutors say he met through the erotic services section of Craigslist. Philip Markov's suicide robbed his victims and his victim's family of
closure and possibly answers as to why he committed these crimes. Philip Markoff seemed to only care about his own needs and interests from the start of this story until the very end, while putting on the mask that he wanted to help people and that he was a good person. None of that proved to be true. He was a true Charlatan. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Apex and the Abyss. If you would like to reach out to the show, please feel free to write an email to Apex an Abyss at
gmail dot com. You can also find the show on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook if you prefer to communicate that way. You can also submit episode suggestions, as well as find links to everything mentioned above in the show notes and at Apex and Abyss dot com, as well as a link to another show a co host called Monster Madness. If you'd like to support the show, you can do that in many ways. You can head on over to Apple Podcasts and submit a rating and review. This costs you nothing but a
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