Chad Sanders On Building A Brand, Staying True To The Culture & The Cost Of Success

All right, guys, chat senders in the building?

Friend, author, uh? Actor? Director? What else do you do? I feel like you wear all the hats shed.

I just I just do whatever I want to do.

What's your first thing?

What's your first I'm a writer. I'm a writer.

Yeah, like you know, I write books. I write TV shows all right, rip screenplays? Yeah, op eds.

I'm a writer. Which you're a writer.

I think it's a way of It's how you see the world more than anything. It's like you see the world in a story. So that's that's what I do.

Thank you for calling me a writer. That's some nice You wrote a bestseller.

I am a writer, However, I don't know why I struggle with that title. Why well, number one, I had helped somebody helped me format my first book very much, and I don't want to take that away from her. She definitely helped me with the book. I did a lot of the writing, but it's hard, like and I don't I haven't yet to like I have.

I'm actually finishing.

I want you to read it something right now that from beginning to end is only my hands and my and that's a different experience than I have an idea, we wanted this, and this isn't and then somebody else taking the pen and doing that. It's a different thing. And so because I've had help in a couple of projects that I've done, I haven't really wanted to claim that this will be my first thing that I do from beginning to end, that is my writing.

It's a strang Yes, nice film. Yes, well we'll.

See, we'll say how you're going to read it? I know you'll give you give me yeah, of course, of course you bread stuff.

It's such a process. It's hard for a process.

It's forever a process. But you are a writer. Writer, Yeah, that's I just want to separate.

I want to separate the two because you come up with a thing from the beginning to the end, you get it out, you put it on paper. When does that start? How did you even find that you were good at that? Is that like a school thing?

I learned that when I was six years old. I remember there was a class where they taught us how to write limericks, which are basically just like really short rhyming poems, and I just got obsessed with it because it was honestly, I think because of the kind of house that I grew up in, which was a pretty you know, both parents, pretty strict, very regimented, thirty minutes of TV a day.

Intellectuals come on.

But of course dad is a lawyer. My mom was in corporate America for thirty years. My sister's a lawyer, so that.

He was reading, you was going to read some books in that house.

Books everywhere.

Yeah, and now there's our Me and my sister are both writers, so there's our books are in there.

Which is kind of cool. But it was a way to it still is for me.

You know, I'm pretty polite in real life, but it's a way for me to like express what I don't feel allowed to say in decent society.

But you your social media and your personality has developed over the past what year.

It's really been like six six months.

I made a video about I sold a TV show to be et with support from a lot of people, and I went into the process of, you know, writing a TV show with a network, and I went in thinking it was going to be one thing which was like my dream, Oh I'm gonna come, I made I'm gonna right now, And instead I had the experience most people had, which is that the network tried to peel everything away from it that was me and very deliberately tried to make it dumber, so that quite literally so

And I was like, I cannot I can't do it.

I literally can't do I can't make a show that talks down to my own people.

And I shared that video maybe like six months ago.

How did anybody from be ET respond to that.

I got a text immediately.

I literally haven't read I'm gone fully roll Gangie. You didn't read literally haven't even read the You know, the person who texted me actually treated me very well there, but it was she was the one person he she or they were the one person who treated me well there, And so.

You didn't want to read it out of what guilt, of fear or just you didn't want it to sway your take.

I feel for the first time in these last six months that I am being myself everywhere that I go, every time I pick up a camera or a microphone or a pin, and I don't want your book is called is it called finding my voice?

This is my voice?

My voice? Like once you have that, I don't want to lose that. That's everything. That's all I have.

If I start, if I let every opinion on what I'm doing get in here, it's going to change.

It's going to change how I do the job.

Yeah that is smart.

Yeah that's tricky.

Yeah, yeah especial Are you like so are you you say you're gone rogue? What does that mean? Anybody could get it? Are you trying to be a shock writer? A shock What is the intention of of the row?

Goodness?

What I mean being precise is I think when you met me, and in the first few years that you got to know me, I was very much trying to work within the machine of Hollywood. I was like, all right, here I am, I'm a screenwriter TV.

Right, bright eye?

Did you tell like, you know, taking advice from everybody kind of like doing all this work for people for free that weren't even like treating me that good. And I was just like, oh, I'm gung hole. I'm trying to get my shot and the Hollywood machine. It's not like I had some big epiphany like it exploded, you know.

That's me.

You didn't change personality completely.

Do I seem like it?

No, but it is. It's interesting to see you because you used to be kind of just kind of like.

Demure, and now you're like and another thing and you over there and those people over.

There can get it too.

Yeah. I mean, but I think if you, if you knew you.

Had fun so much funk good.

I think I feel lighter, honestly, I mean I do. I think people in my life can tell I feel lighter now because I'm not holding all of this. Everything you're describing is like, you know, pain from industry, pain from capitalism, pain from building relationships in this industry is very complicated. Yes, and all the combination of all that was making me heavy. It was making me a little bit like sad and angry all the time. And now I'm getting it off.

So it's like, you feel free.

I feel like I feel free.

Go for you. How has that affected business?

Well, my business is different because I think the business is different. In this book, you'll see a few years ago, I wrote an op ed about George Floyd in my reaction and people's reactions to George Floyd, and it blew up in the New York Times, and people started offering me money to come in and be like a voice of I think kind of like black anger at that

I needed.

I needed that opportunity to present itself.

Absolutely, you showed up.

Yeah.

And now my business is a lot more straight to consumers.

You know.

I sell products directly to consumers. I self published a children's book, I have courses I'm rolling out now, merchandise Like, I don't have the same relationship with corporations that I used to you.

But I'm building leverage that I think.

Is going to give me the an ability to do that business with corporations by building audience. I didn't have an audience before when I met you, I didn't nobody, nobody.

Heard of me. You know, I have an audience now I have. You know, it's a it's it's a no.

I love that for you. I love that for you. And what is it like?

So somebody who's new to you maybe is going to get this book or maybe read the first book and now this one. What what is the what is the message behind the shift?

You know what I mean? I know you said you feel you feel freer.

You you you've been calling out situations, like you said, within an industry.

But what is like somebody new.

To your like you to your universally, like, what do you what is the message? Yeah?

I think that the conundrum of this moment is for a lot of people who want to get into entertainment, creative industries, writing, whatever it is, it's like you to find your lane, you find your little dimension that defines you to the public eye, which could be you know, for me it was like young angry black kid. For

We just talked about your book, your book.

The cover you said it says like, oh, this is this like sweet memoir of this.

Girl growing up in New York. But yeah, there's so much more about you than just thank you, thank you.

The book to me is like we're living, in my opinion, in the best time ever for creatives, where we have these tools that you can use to exp press every piece of who you are. If there is a message in this book, it is call your own number to grow into all of those spaces the way that you want to. You don't have, I think, to become Angie Martinez X amount of years ago you had to go through corporations to make it happy.

It is one of been one of the hardest things to navigate for me too, for sure. So because I like to pride myself on being like principled and having a vision for things and really being loyal to the culture. So sometimes when you try to you know, I've tried to do things outside, I've tried.

To bring the culture to places.

That were outside of the culture, right, and then they're like, yeah, you come do this for us and bring the culture. And then you bring it and they try to do disrespectful things, and then you're in a position where you know, you have to make decisions. And I feel good that I feel like I've made really good decisions in my life. Some that I probably left a lot of money on the table. I always say I'm the Queen of leaving money on the table. But I sleep amazing at night.

But you know, not everybody's not.

Everybody's a good partner for that, depending on what you're you know what I mean, what's important to you?

Does that makes sense?

Yeah?

It does, And you've said it, I think more eloquently than I did. If there's a message in this book, it is that that money you're leaving on the table by making choices that will let you sleep at night and by being yourself and a whole person, that is

That's that's the message.

It's funny because sometimes I see you say thing.

I was just looking at a clip on your page. You said about we just played it. Give it to me again.

It was a we watched a few of them. No, not the NFL.

It was you said about people selling out. And you said, I get it because I I've made that.

It was about that.

And all that, right, Yes, And I've made those same choices.

And you've made those choices. You didn't say mistakes, you said choices.

Huh, Well, I just wondered if that is the you know, it's a very it's one word, right, But.

Like, I'm not trying to I'm not here to judge.

I was going to say that it didn't feel like you were saying, don't be a sellout because I made the mistake of being a sellout.

You said you're selling out, and I understand because I've also made that choice.

I have.

It's an interesting, like fine line.

I'm not here to judge anybody because we didn't choose this, Like we didn't choose capitalism to be built the way it was. We didn't choose the cities that we live in with the economy that we live in. Like, these are choices that fell on us. Yeah, people are trying to navigate them. I personally like it's my being that I cannot live well while doing business with bad people. I can't live well while shaking hands with people who

That's that's why I say, these are choices.

Do you really feel like that in that particular case.

I I don't know what it is like to be Like, I'm a thoughtful person.

I think about these things like I don't know what it's like to be Snoop Dogg.

What all went into that decision at all? People have also said, you know, you don't know who he owes what. You don't know what decisions he's making because somebody did him a favor twenty years ago that he needs to make right on. I mean, like I said, I don't I don't want to be in a position where I gotta go support Donald Trump or go do business with people who I think do harm to others intentionally for a check. I hope I never have to be in

Not because I don't make those decisions. Yeah, I don't know it's possible.

Or you'll sell a gazillion books and you'll be rich on your own turn.

And if you want to know how I really feel because I am That was demure.

That was very demure.

I can get it my way, like I don't have.

That's and that's what I'm trying to say in the book is I have the tools to get it my way. I don't have to do a brand deal with you know, crypto bot or something like that to get the money. I can get it by talking directly to people by you know, the favors of people like you who are willing to let me talk to your audience. Think I have something to say. There's enough out there that I can make it work.

Go get it all, Chad, thank you, Go get it all. All right, let's talk about the book. So the book, sell it. Tell everybody why they need this book in their life, all right, I'll sell it. How to sell it, How to sell how to sell out?

You are NonStop.

If you're like me, if you're like many people, you are constantly giving your life to a job, to the Internet. You're giving your humanity to it, your stories, your pain, your relationships, your image, your voice, everything about you is going into And I'm nervous because you're about to see I signed that book to somebody else because I.

Thought you had the book already.

I'm going to go put this on Charlemagne's desk and told me to pull up.

And you used to have a studio next to Charlamagne's.

Yeah, so bring.

I will literally drive yours to Jersey. Okay, I thought you had the book already. My pright, Simon Schuster should have sent you the book. But you're giving all that stuff away for free already. Somebody is already making money off of all of those pieces of you. I think if people had an understanding of how much value they have as a person, like all of their experiences, their images, their relationships, if they could own that value in ways that I will explain to you how to do in

And it's simple, not complicated. That's what the book is meant to show you.

Brilliant, you know what I was just thinking, because in other words, you just said is like if you would like to get out of there, because I feel like even when you mentioned somebody, whoever this person was that was good to you at Beet, like the one person at be Et. Sometimes I think about people like that, And sometimes people are in buildings and that's their way of trying to make change just right in the building.

So then some young writer.

Comes along and says, no, I don't want to do all the things that everybody else in the building.

Maybe they even see you, but maybe they're not in a position yet to change it.

I'm just just putting this out there, I think, because I think this is a circle of things that happen right where you can go in and out of like independence but also going inside and trying to be a disrepresented the anti I think I've lived both of those lives, you know, because I've worked in radio, I've worked in big companies, I've had to kind of I've done deals, so I think I've worked. But I'm also a personal, you know, an independent personality. So I think I think

That emails is probably a little of that.

It was. It was a text, which is even more it was a text.

Oh gosh, text is like you don't know how I tried. Definitely that's going on in the text. I don't even have to see it.

Or know the person I write the context you want to read, I probably.

Know the person. I could.

Are you gonna say the person?

No?

No, don't say the person because I like this, because I like this person.

So I don't even let's do it.

Let's do a little test.

You should read it and tell me if I'm right, if the person is saying, all.

Right, I try to.

I tried to get this done for you in this building right here, he goes, I feel like we should have a wager. I feel like there should be money on the table or something. What if they know this could go bad?

Because if you don't like what's in there, and you whole demeanor the.

Whole moment, I feel like, I hope I didn't delete it.

No, you deleted it? Oh you so are you going hard body on this?

Oh? You know what you found it I had.

It's literally just one sentence. I'm not even gonna read it because it's too personal. I don't want to put the person out there. But what they're basically saying is have you seen this show on our network? Which I think is to say all of our shows are not basic, all of our shows are not trashing, dumb whatever.

Like I said, this is a nice person.

They went into the yes defense a little defensive.

A little bit. Yeah.

But I actually now have three things that I'll go through quickly. One is, I do think what I have learned from this journey that you have seen, probably from a distance of me being a little more specific, a little more outward saying things publicly that I usually would only say one on one to people, is names are powerful. When you say somebody's name, I'm never out here, just like trashing somebody didn't even trash snooping them about their

Is apposed to?

Like, I went to Simon and Schuster, what's my book publisher? I made a video because his image was on the wall. He's like, the only black guy with a photo on the wall. So I took a video with it and I said, what's up, Charlamagne? Can I come on the Breakfast Club? He responds in a comment and says, pull up, Angie. You've probably seen this in my journey. This has always gotten me messed up in this industry. When people say something, I.

Think they mean it.

Yeah, so what means it?

So I followed up with a DM. I had my publicist fall up as well.

I have written him in that book a note with my phone number because I'm like, I did the same thing with Torey Van Layton.

I just went on a show two weeks ago.

At the end of the show, he says, Yo, let's talk about I want to I want to make your book into a movie or TV show.

He's like, let's talk about the rights.

Rachel Lindsay's co host puts us on a text write out that conversation.

Haven't heard of peepe Angie? You know what I'm saying.

I can go down the list that's just in the last two weeks and you saw me eat it for I don't know how much you actually saw it, but.

No, I didn't. But also I can imagine because we all do.

I have that all do?

We all do? We all do.

But people tell me things.

Every day that they're gonna do and they don't and they.

Don't do it. And I'm like, but but.

I mean somebody right after you that promised me something that they didn't tell it and I'm still having no no, and.

You're and that's graceful of you, and like, but but this is the thing that bothers me is that everybody's not like that.

You don't do that to me?

No, no, no, you never saw him.

Like if you don't do it to me, why does this person get to do it to me? If I don't do it to you, why does somebody else get to do it to me.

I think we're gonna help you book the Breakfast Club and you're gonna go have this argument with Charle Mane on the Breakfast Club.

Thank you, and it's well, do you know him?

Have you met him?

I've only met him because when I was shadowing you for the for what we were writing, yes, and you brought me to the studio and he walked through.

And so you met it. Oh yeah, okay, But I haven't like done this with him. Yes, I haven't even like.

He hasn't gotten to know you. This is right up his alley.

I'm saying I got you, and I can't promise you that they can have you on, but I can promise you that I will connect you with the person that will thank you put it. I don't want to make this just about Charlemagne. I do want to go to the prechast, but but I.

Just have a problem with everybody.

I'm just like people when we say something to each other that it means people.

Have lives, that they have ten jobs and they have things, they have responsibilities. And you say, I've never done that to you, And I try not to do that to anybody, But have I said yeah, we're gonna and then I don't do it. That happens a lot.

Because and I forgive them that, and because like I've done life people, I'm sure life life. But that's why I bet you would agree that it's my job to pull up like it's my job.

Yes, because the other side of that is sometimes people tell you to pull up, and nine out of ten people.

Don't even bother to pull up.

That can't be me. No, that wouldn't be in this phase. That can't be me. So thank you.

I love that for you.

Okay, I love the chapter names and we have Okay, give yeah, give me.

I talk about I spent some time with Kanye in my career.

You know you worked for Kanye. How does he like you bringing him up? Have you got any wind?

I don't think he no, not a peep.

Okay, because you have a whole section it's called the old Kanye.

Yeah.

Do you think Kanye has sold out? Or do you think Kanye is just on his own plant?

Okay, I'm not a doctor, so I don't want to just speculate, but I mean, he's talked about his own stuff in that regard.

What do you think?

I don't know. I'm okay to say I don't know.

I'm scared.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what that. I don't know him well enough to know this is what's going on with him.

What I'll say is, at that time I got to sort of shadow work with It's all very nebulous in this industry what is work and what's not? But like, I got to do my job as writer around him, go to his house where he live with Kim Kardashian, go play basketball with him, go on car rides with him, meet his friends, sit down for brunch.

Like and I'm still honestly processing it.

This was all before he said slavery was a choice, right before it. What I certainly did see though, which I bet you have seen engraver details with other people, is like the yes man vibe around him, just the complete and total. Whatever Kanye's laughing at, that's what we all laugh at. Whatever Kanye thinks is cool, that's what we all think is cool. Whatever Kanye wants to eat for brunch, that's what we all want to eat for brunch. And that's hard for people like us.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I can't know for sure, but a certain level of celebrity or money that's pretty common.

Do you do you find common?

Is that? Are you able to see, Angie when people are doing that to you? Are you able to see it?

Huh?

That's a good, good question, I think, So I'd like to hope. I think Number one, I might not always pay attention, but I am a really good judge of character.

Yes, you are.

So even if I miss it, it's it's just because I'm not paying attention, and it doesn't it doesn't matter too much in that moment. But if something matters and I'm paying attention, I know for sure I could see it. I might miss it in like just the every day minutia of doing stuff, somebody might do that, But I think overall I.

Can see people.

Well. I think that's actually why I've done pretty decently in my careers, because I can see people, you know what.

I mean, decently. That's demure, Angie.

I'm just saying, Hey, by the way, there's.

Levels, that's true, but I mean, come on.

It's always levels. Sad there are Yeah.

Do you relieve them of that when you notice them doing it? Or do you?

I don't really have people in close proximity that do that.

Good, you know, I have my from what I've seen. You don't.

No, I don't.

I've always been a good judge, a cash even julier in my career. Yeah, but strangers don't affect my everyday life, so it doesn't matter if a strangers, Yes, do I get the privilege of like, you know, you don't have to wait in line or oh it's angie, come on, they're nice, extra nice to me. Then maybe they weren't as nice as the last person at the register.

Yes, but that's I take it.

I receive it.

I take that. I take that as love.

You've earned it, Yeah, I take it as love.

It's fine, I'll take it. I'm not gonna let somebody be rude to somebody else in front of me. Like when we go back and days to go to the club, and every time the bouncers would try to take me to I have to go to the bathroom or something, they try to take me to the front of the line.

I was always mortified. I was like, no, I can't walk in front.

Of a whole line of people who also have to go to the bathroom to do it.

And they were like, no, it's okay, we have to get you back to the state. But I've always had this weird like, please.

Don't do that.

I don't want people to feel that way. I don't want to feel that way. Like it just always made me. That's a random example, but like that always made me very uncomfortable. So that's like an idea of in general, if it makes if it's doing If somebody giving me preference is hurting somebody else in some way, I would not be comfortable, right.

It takes something away from you too. You're an active person. You golf, you drive your own car, you make your own.

Like, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. For me, I have a regular life, So it takes.

Away and something else that's in the book. I am getting better at this.

But something really good in the book is I worked very closely with Spike Lee for a few years. I learned a lot very different things from Spike then from Kanye. But what I learned from Spike was be analog. Whatever you can do yourself that doesn't take so much time away from you that it's going to reduce how you

He would events.

Yeah, he would have his old students come pick us up from the airport, and he would pull out his BlackBerry and like crunch out his own emails on BlackBerry. I thought somebody like Spike Lee would have a handler for everything. But the more the more I've seen highly successful creative people do their work. It is much more hands on than I think people would expect that it is.

And that's that's depicted in the book.

Let's go through a couple of Well, first of all, you start the book that he said, this.

Is the last time. Yes, you're going to write about race. Why is that?

And then the last line in the book is something like, I.

Didn't get to the last line.

Please read it.

I am going to totally. I would take it home and read it. Except you didn't bring me one. You only bro one to Charlotte and hasn't had you on the show.

That's crazy. How did this happen?

I don't know?

Okay, And I think the last line and by the way, I wrote my entire book, I know a lot of I know a lot Ofah.

No ghost writer, touch my shit. Ever, maybe one day when I'm when i'm rich it what's the last line of the book.

Thank you for buying this book.

Oh no, that's the acknowledgement.

Sorry, Okay, that's also very nice, very nice line. Okay, so this will be my last time writing about race for now unless I need the money again.

Those are the book INDs.

So you're willing to sell out if it made sense for you in life.

I'm just not a writer who is trying to talk to people like it's the Bible, like there are practicalities of capitalism. I have to make a living to do everything I need to get done in this life, in this industry, I have to make money. And so I don't want to write about race anymore because I don't want to be pigeonholed as a race writer. And I don't and and I wrote this book before they started shutting down DEI everywhere. But like I got a lot

How to sell out everybody? Is there anything else people need to know? This is less less? The closing arguments isn't an argument.

But most people, I can't say most people. I have heard back already. The book's been out for what two weeks. I've heard back from so many people already who said they read this book in a day, two days a week.

I'm gonna call you as soon as I'm noting. I'm probably gonna have follow up questions.

Please, yeah, for please, you're you're in there and what you're in there somewhere?

Tell me the page.

I don't know the page, and you're definitely in the in the acknowledgments as.

Well, what did you say about me?

You can read the book, Angie, No, but you're here.

Now, I can't.

You gotta you know. I would only say you know what you know.

I would only say the truth that I feel about you, which is very clear and not disparaging in any way.

You gotta read the book, so what I say?

I'm so mad now?

I know people think.

A book is like a three month investment of their time.

You will chew.

Through this book so quickly. If you live in New York City especially, you will see so much of yourself in this book. I've lived in eleven different neighborhoods in my fourteen.

Years living talking, I'm looking for my name.

All right, this is great. I'll just fil a bust I talk about such a book. You will see yourself in this book and That's why you'll fly through it. Because if you live here, no matter what you do for a living, you can't fool me. You are a hustler, like you have to chase it. You are hungry, you don't get people got to eat out here. There is there's a line, you know, people gotta eat.

This is a it is a it is a dream to be self like made and not have to. You know, but in the in the world that we live, in the country we live in, that's right.

Yes, Unfortunately there are there.

Is compromise sometimes that we have to make, and I think that's prett comment for most people.

Yeah, and that is the dream to not have to.

I believe that you would probably attest that you can find something that you love to do every day that makes money.

And that's that's a dream. That is the dream, an attainable dream.

Oh, there's a screenplay in there also for anybody who wants to learn how to write a pilot.

Oh.

I'm going to read that part a couple of times.

That is called the Tournament.

It is like I can't find the chad.

You're not going to be so mad.

I see jay Z's name in here.

Yeah, we talk about jay We talk about jay Z's relationship with the NFL and my my observations of it.

You are the person.

Well, I was with you when I met jay Z the one and only time I've ever met him. Where were we? We were at dumble House after Beyonce concert.

Yes, do you want to give a brief? Is this going to open a book?

Thing?

That's gonna know?

He was tall, he's kind of tall.

No, he's mental.

He's willowy.

His his his his like body is like willowy, if that makes sense.

Like he looks like he does yoga.

He might his eye his eye contact is very much looking at you, like do you agree with that?

Like when he's looking at you, he's like he's present.

He's totally present.

He's present.

Yeah, it's like it's not it wasn't like mean, what do you want? But it's definitely like hello, like speak kind of thing. That's what I felt. But I also it's also like speak.

It's also like speak, don't waste my time.

Definitely, which I also say about Spike in that book, is like you call people like this and they pick up the phone and you want to do like, hey, how's it going, And they're just like.

Oh God, goodbye.

And Spike taught me that, Like as soon as I pick up the phone, let's get to it. Yeah, let's do let's do what we love to do. Let's not do small talk. So I love that small talk me too.

That should be your next book.

No small talk please?

Okay, the world needs it. The world needs that.

Martinez Publishing Group.

In the meantime, How to sell out Chad Sanders. Where do they get it?

Everywhere?

You can get it at Simon and Schuster dot com, Barnes Andnoble dot com, Amazon, and my instagram. This is important. Please include this in the edit. My instagram is at.

I may not edit anything out of this is just gonna fun. I think it's gonna go. You're good. You know you're not gonna you Sometimes you gotta edit because he didn't do it.

Question question.

Why is it something I hear? You want to know? From him? He gave us so much.

She came in the room, she hands me the sheet of paper. She's like, make sure you do this questionnaire before you go. I'm like, I got you.

Of course it's a silly little questionnaire.

But sometimes we learn interesting things about people that wouldn't come up in natural conversation.

As soon as she walked out of the room, I forgot that the questionnaire existed, like like you were probably still in the room by and I had already released it from my mind.

Like, what is one thing on your bucket list?

I do want to direct the feature film?

You will?

I want to see every continent? Have you been to every continent?

Mmm? No, I want to see a lot more. I want to travel. That's one of my bucket list's. There's a whole bunch of places I haven't been that I want to go.

Uh.

And also to direct the feature film. By the way, we have we have similar bucket lists.

Yeah, I know that you're going to do that soon.

Thanks.

Probably this thing you wrote, can you talk about it?

It's a short, it's not.

What you're gonna do it.

We'll see, Okay, we'll see. I'll let you read it.

Is it the thing? We kind of know? Something new?

All right, Brandon? No, I told you fresh idea from beginning to end.

No no help, no no suggestions, no nothing like.

Totally Like that's always the thing for me.

It's like I've always wanted to do something from it here all the way to writing it, getting it done, directing the whole thing from the beginning to something about that that singularity. It's just a bucket list thing. Even if it's a short. It could be a short, it could be a movie, could be doc could be whatever it is. But like from conception to delivery to releasing into the world, like to have that full experience is something I want.

I really want to do. So I'll tell you in what is your pet Peeve?

I really don't like small talk. I don't like do you realize how much?

What's your birthday?

March sixth? What's yours?

January ninth, Capricorn?

And happy birthday?

Is that A I don't know. I don't know. I know nothing of you know?

Is he like me? Am I not salant?

You're not?

You want to say, but if I'm not, But I will say if I'm not doing, if i'm if it's not all this stuff in here, I am a lot more.

I like playing this out because anybody who's like new to him and interested in this book and hearing the conversation. But the book, the ski this is. We'll end it with a little bit just get to know who the guy is behind the book.

Now A little bit.

I didn't say my Instagram, by the way, it's at Chad Sandcha D s A N D. You will know within like fifteen seconds if you like me or not. Would you all agree with that?

You will know really fast if you want to stay or No. I don't think so.

No, No, I don't think so, because I think you have, like you said, you have layers, and you have different things that you offer, and they might not be interested in this one thing that you're talking about, but something else might come along and your take on that might be really interesting to them.

So I think you stick around a little bit.

Okay, I like it.

What is your What is the last thing that sent you down a rabbit hole?

Oh? No, I've been.

Okay, this is free promo for this person, but I've been. There's this YouTube series called Soft White Underbelly.

Has anybody heard of it?

No?

What is that? You might love it? Actually, what is it?

It's a guy who does like these I don't want to call this this, but it's like you know how Vlad does just all you can see is the subject and not the host. He does that kind of angle with his subjects, but shot very beautifully and every subject is someone from like the I'll say, kind of like the darker spaces of America, like sex workers, pimps, drug dealers, drug addicts, people who are products of incest, like children of like adult children of incest, drug smugglers.

Like it's crazy, but deep, it's you and deep deep, No, it's crazy.

What's the wildest one? The most interesting one you've seen?

I do really enjoy listening to.

Women who are sex workers by choice talk about you'll see this in my in my book.

Do you have a sex worker?

No, no.

No?

I love hearing them talk about how they case up a john, like how they know a guy who they can really run.

Up for a lot of money. Because I love sales.

I love I love the psychology behind selling, and they are they're so I thought about making a book called hoen about like where I just interview sex workers about selling and how they learn the psychology of selling.

It's really good. It's it's because what I'm.

Saying is people even with dark jobs, but they're but he he captures them so artistically, he crushes it.

By the way, that could be a movie.

Oh my god, But you asked, what was the most crazy one? Yeah, they go to.

They actually like, this is the only one that they do out of the studio. They go to the house of a family of people who are born to incestuous parents in like Appalachia, and they just like spend the day with this family.

Everybody's everybody. Everybody says this. When we asked the questions, right, everybody had the same answer.

So interesting. No, it's like.

The dog tricks, aliens anime.

Or yeah, something like that.

All right, go to karaoke song, Chad Sanders, Oh man, I love carry These are high level questions. I love karaoke. I'd be singing on my Instagram to sell this book. I take suggestions like R and B everything anything, honestly, but my go to is the Circle of Life.

From the Lion King. That's my go to.

Would you like to leave the people with a little something?

Do you want that? Don't tell me? I think that would be amazing. Okay, let's get it.

Wait Chad Sanders, all.

Right, from the day wheel arrive on the plant and blinking step into the sun, and you like it. There's more to see they can never.

Be seen, more to do they can never ever be done. In the Circle Lne and in a Rousea, so.

All right. One time he said so everywhere