Five point one, the amazed by the way the flyest civil rights activists in the game and author to make the mallories in the building today.
Pretty you are.
I know people don't usually lead with that, but like it is not to be ignored.
Thank you. You know, this is the first time I've been in this studio on this show.
I'm I l if you.
Did the podcast I did that, which was one of the most amazing interviews I've ever, ever, ever ever participated in and one of the uh, the most feedback that I've received. I love that contacted me saying, oh my god, I didn't see other interviews, but this one. They were like, this is deep, Like this is beautiful.
The thing when we did the you know, you had opened up about things in your life that you really hadn't spoken about public.
Yeah, you were like in the first group people that I started.
I wondered if expressing that helped open I know it was a couple of interviews you did, but if that talking about it kind of opened up the idea to want to share this car with me.
People. And by the way, you'd be surprised of the people. You wouldn't be surprised because you're in the industry. So you know, I started getting calls from people that were like, hey, you know, I'm just wondering what did you do, Like what was the process of rehab? Yeah, going to rehab? Like what I just want to take somebody.
But before we go to that, because people might not have seen our interview or you talking about it.
But like to Mike A. Mallory in the throes of her being this, you were a big figure.
You still are, but I'm just saying you were in the Women's March and just many in many moments and many important moments.
I appreciate that you acknowledged that it wasn't just Women's March, but some people feel like that was the beginning my career.
Oh god, no, oh god, no, no.
You are one of the people that if you're paying attention, you should be looking to and looking for answers to and when shit happens and we want to know who who's directing us at where to put our resources and
our effort in our time. You have been one of those leaders for quite some time, and so to know that you were leading in that way and also then hit a roadblock where addictions sank in right and The addiction came from you not being able to process probably some of the grief and the numb and the trauma and all the stuff that comes with living the life that you live at that time.
Sleep deprivation mixed with anxiety, extreme anxiety that I did not know how to manage. And then you mix those two things with people calling me everything under you know, I was every name. If it was hate of a group, I was the one. If it was, you know, selling black people out because I was working with white women.
That was you know, on me everything, all the things you could think of, and the stress of you know, raising money, bringing a big intersectional group of people who all have issues, different things that they care about together. It was it was already a lot not to mention, adding the attacks on top of it. And so, you know, I mentioned to a friend one day that I can't sleep and she was like, oh, well, you know, I
take Xanax and it helps me. And she actually said that I should ask my doctor about it, but I don't even remember that part. I just was like, do you have some She's like, yeah, here, you could take these, you know. I cut them in half and started taking them. And then the next thing. You know. I learned that percocets were even better, and I started taking those, and then I was up to twenty thirty pills a day. So, you know, how does that happen?
Though?
That's a part of a dark hole.
Yeah, it's a dark hole.
And because why are you taking them in the day if they were supposed to be for sleep. You're just addicted to them.
Oh no, at that point, you just your body is now craving it. And then I started to learn that, oh I could just like check out what the fuck y'all talk about, right, excuse my lege, No, I feel you, you know, like whatever y'all talking about in this meeting that y'all trying to stress me out, I don't even have to hear it. I could just sit here and not even see you, right Like That's that was kind of like how I started to deal with numbing for
the whole day. And I didn't want that to happen to me having fast, right, it happened so fast, But I had multiple I had a friend. I was sitting at dinner with a group of girls one night, and this young lady had she'd been through it, and she was like, you know, it's a dark hole and it doesn't get lighter, it just gets worse, so you should stop. But at that time, I was kind of like, who
I'm sleeping. I'm feeling a little better, and she's like, actually, you're not doing well at all if how you're sleeping is to take pills. So that she told me that, but of course I didn't listen. I didn't heed the warning. But it was Jason Williams, the best NBA All Star forever All Star, who I called trying to act like I was the third you know, I was a friend like, hey, Jason, what do you think about this girl?
I know?
He let me do it for three times, three calls, and then finally he said, nah, Like I know it's you. You need to get yourself together. And he was just like do you drive? Crazy question? And I'm like, yeah, I'll drive. Why He's like, you know, you'll be like in a car and have an accident or something and they'll find the pills. Like he just hacked this whole story. I'm like, what can happen to me? And I was
over there like yeah I could. So finally I told him and Rachel nordon Linger who you know, and Jason put me in a program and I was in there under an alias, so I really didn't even have to tell anybody, but I knew it wasn't my story the whole. It was really God's story to be told about how I went down as far as I could go and I was able to pop back. And you know, in those dark moments, it feels like you're not gonna make it, but we're not giving up. We're not giving up. That's the message.
There's a testimony in that too, because somebody as strong as you are, as you know, people think, oh, I that couldn't happen to me.
Yeah, I'm just gonna take this just for.
This little moment. I know a lot of people, by the way that think that way.
Yeah, and you don't know.
That, No, it catches you those pills. That's Have you even watched the films, the two documentaries or DocuFilms that are out, which is Painkiller and Dope Sick? I think no, those are those. Sick is on Hulu and Painkiller is
on Netflix. You should watch it. This is a whole political crime, right because the FDA and the people who were supposed to protect us as citizens, there was a man who worked there who was saying, no, he would not approve the family who is responsible for whichever one of the drugs, the purpose in whichever name of the drug, he was not approving it because he's like, it's dangerous, it's addictive. They took him per this document, these shows,
they took him on like a trip or something. And the next thing, you know, not only did he approve it, he left the FDA and went to work for the company. So like, come on, you know what I'm saying, this is all. It's all They knew that it was addictive, and they continue to ignore it, and doctors were getting paid and getting deals under the table. And the next thing you know, you have all of these people, millions of people who are addicted to this drug, to these drugs.
Could you believe that that happened to you?
I cannot. Can you imagine me with no cell phone in a rehab facility which was actually a house. It wasn't like a building, you know, the thing you're going into. That's what I thought I was going to, like a facility, but it was actually a house. And I'm in there in the dark, in a room.
And you are to make a mountain and I.
Talk on my phone. I got people, things I'm trying to going on, you know, and I'm in a room in the dark, like yo, I can't I can't communicate with anybody but God, you know. And it was but it was the best thing to end the story. I wish it didn't happen to me, but if it was gonna happen, to be there in that space and have God as the only person that I could trust and that I could really talk to in that moment. And I know everybody's, oh, that's a cliche. No, No, it
was me and God. We was tussling our way out of this thing. And I just kept saying, God, if you would just take the taste out of my mouth, that's all I want. Because when you take the pills, anybody out there who knows what I'm talking about, amen to.
I know.
I understand you putting the pill in your mouth at different times through the day. It becomes an addiction too. It's not only how it makes you feel, it's just the habit, just like picking up your phone, it's what you do. And so I just needed all of that to go away. And before I left there, I knew I was free, So I don't know what would happen in life. I can't say this or that won't happen to me because we don't know. Because I love to eat,
I need to start working on that. I'm on the sugar bad right But I know I'm not going back to that. I know those pills. That's a closed chapter that I will never open again in my life. And that's because God met me in a real dark place. But now you know, I'm in the light. And it's my job I know, which I didn't always wait with. I didn't always want to own it, but it's my job to make sure that somebody else gets free from it as well.
Yeah, it also gives you a different connection to people who are in that struggle, in that battle right now.
Absolutely. I mean I've got makeup artists, hair stylists, people I meet around the country who are like, hey, you know, quiet moments while they're doing my face or whatever, you know, I'm going through this or my son or my friend or my brother, you know, And I just appreciate you for telling your story if you have any tips, you know.
So that's beautiful, that's all you know.
It's worth sharing, right and you talk about how hard you tell it real quick the story right now, but in the book, like how that process of coming out of that and the withdrawal, and.
There's just you know, the you think, oh, she just stopped, though I figured out how to stop. But that is the case.
And you know, there's so many disparities in our nation for how people get help because this facility that I was in, I was the only black person in a facility where they give you drugs to help you get off drugs. But the drugs they give you help you to deal with the pain that enters your body when you start trying to detox. It is not easy. So if you have a family member, a loved one who's out there and you're like, you know, come on, just like get yourself to get your stock, get strong, like
do it. It's not that simple. It is not that simple because it cripples you physically before and then you got to deal with the mental side of it as well. And there's a lot of shame associated. But I can tell you that trying to force people to rehab or to whatever, or even to admit that they have an
issue until they're ready, it's not gonna happen. So it's got it's on them to make the decision, not the mother, not the father, and my sister, husband, children, Nobody is on the person who is suffering with addiction.
Yeah, yeah, there's a story about how Yandy was really there for you at that moment.
We boo cry off of this particular part. Yeah, she went to go you know, she is in my audio book. I do the whole book, and but there are there's her part. There are three places where I have other people to write about our experiences together. And Yandy went to film her part in between something she was taping, probably filming the show. She's like, I'm a run over there for two hours and tape my part, and she called me, like my makeup bruh, Like I'm screaming crying
in the middle of the thing. And you know, I don't want to give too much away, but if you are looking, if you just want to open the book and go to her chapter, I would do that if I was somebody just looking a file, like what's the part, because she was there in a place in time when I really just didn't even know how I was gonna make it, and it wasn't it wasn't so much the rehab that was over that part I had already sort of gotten through somewhat. It was how am I gonna
piece life together again? That's where she met me, you know what I mean. So God blessed for all the people who've shown up for me, and many of them are in this book, and I'm sure it's more to come.
Do you feel like vulnerable sharing all this stuff?
Hell yeah, yeah, hell yeah?
You know, do you feel free or do you feel nervous?
Like so, my release day is the same day that Nelson Mandela was freed after twenty seven years of captivity. Didn't know it, didn't plan, It just happened to be on that day, And I'm like, wow, Like God, imagine the possibilities. Imagine that that this man here, he is stuck in bondage, if you will, and he got free. So now I'm free because I just believe that nothing happens chance, that it's all designed, and because this is like God. It wasn't like the publishers said, oh this
is the day, what February eleventh is gonna be? You know, it just happened to be that way, And so I'm just owning that as something a powerful force to say that this book has given me freedom. But it's not easy to have people all up in your business. It's hard for my parents to deal with. It's stuff in here they didn't know, and now they're having to read in real time. I don't even curse in front of my parents unless I'm telling the story and I'm still
spelling the word you know what I mean. I'm still like s H, I T, mom, he said, s T. And I'm forty four years old. So in this book, I'm like saying all the word relationships to the sexual, sexual saw, all of that's in here, and I'm like, oh god, I hate for my dad. I'm like, don't read it, just put it on the shelf as all right. But they're actually almost at the end of the book.
You're gonna have like a little family meeting at I.
Did it before the book was even in their hands. When I was writing. It was a chapter that I wrote about and I said, I can't, I can't. I have to tell them this is gonna be tough because it was tough for me. I cried a lot, and the woman who was helping me write the book shout out to Audrey out there listening. She and I both had to stop, like we just couldn't even finish that day. It was just too much. Wow. And so so I
knew that. And the story ends with me walking into my house and my dad not knowing that four guys almost raped me. And I was like saved from the situation by the mother of one of the guys. I walked past him. He has no idea that I'm like in the house crying, you know, scared. Imagine that I hate to bring that up and put him. It's tough, you know, and I know he's hurting to you know. And he told my sister, this is really tough for me to know that these things was happening to my daughter.
But here's the one thing. They told me not to go. They told me not to do this stuff. They tried to say, don't go over here, don't try to save you, And I didn't try.
To save you. God bless them, God bless your parents. Man.
All right, So what do you hope that people get from this book right here, Tobika.
Well, you know, it is a story of resilience, and I truly do hope that somebody who's just trying to figure out how to navigate life, whether you young, old, male or female, just our siblings out there in the world, that you will take this book and say, Okay, she did it, I can do it, like it's not that bad. There is another side, because I didn't know there was
another side. I just thought, Okay, the newspaper said I was done, right, like they made a determination that I made this misstep and some people didn't like it, and they just they said book close, chapter over, She's out. And then I continue to progress and think great things have happened for me. In fact, there's been something that
have happened, like two books, right Who knew? Who knew that that I would meet Charlemagne and Black Privileged Publishing would pick up these books and pick me up as a as their first in their first book on their imprint. Who knew that that would happen to me? After I thought I was done, you know? And so what was the moment though?
That was it the March that I know, you talk a lot of stuff about the March, how dark that was for you, But what was the moment where you were like, I'm this is this is over?
Yeah? It was the March. I mean you know, but the whole time, or just a damn there from day one to day ending, because there was always something. It was either that we didn't involve the right people, or you know, there were a lot of people who joined the Women's March because they were upset that Hillary Clinton didn't win. They not that they were upset that a fascist, racist, sexist thing was about to happen. They were just upset
that Hillary Clinton didn't win. And so that was a big thing that people were pissed off that we weren't honoring her properly. But that was never what the march was supposed to be about, at least when we got involved. It wasn't. Then there were people black women who said, why do we want to march with white women because they are the cause of this, Like why we black women got to go out there and march with them?
Let them do their own thing. And the white women who were initially called for the march, white women who initially called for she used the name of a march that happened with black women twenty years prior, excuse me, twenty years prior. So there was some appropriation issues there which I don't know that it was intentional. I just think that's just what happened. And so then we had
to change the name. So that was drama. Then the next thing was that, you know, Bernie Sanders was gonna be Then they were like, we don't want the men. That was drama. You know, every step of the way, the LGBTQIA community didn't feel like they were being properly represented. Jewish women were upset every week. There was a problem. So, you know, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't do
it again. I would do it again, even knowing everything that I went through up what I make some different decisions, sure, but I would definitely do it again. But to get to the midway point and have people just identify me as a hater of different groups of people just because I went somewhere that they didn't like, that was hard. And you know, eventually there was like a determination from the media, which is the worst place for you to ever look at yourself and try to measure your success
by what they're saying on the internet. That's like awful. You know, it'll kill you every time because it builds you up to tear you down. But it wasn't just what they were saying in the media. It coincided with the fact that every single speaking engagement that I had
was canceled. Now you have to imagine that I was speaking in white women's their living room for twenty five thousand dollars, right, getting paid that type of money, doing it four and five times a week, to tell them all the list of things that's wrong with how they operate in the world and why we ended up in the situation we were in, which was the beginning of
Donald Trump's first presidency. So you know, I'm going around the country being myself, not changing the message, not doing any of that, which is probably what got me in real trouble because you know, I'm sure there was like a husband somewhere who was like, what the hell is this going on there in the in the house, all huddled up, you know, talking about women's rights. Been yeah, you know, So that was another thing. So then all
of it was canceled. College students were like, we're trying to bring you to the campus, but there are students protesting and saying they don't want you here. We have to cancel the event. Speak as bureau trying to take my photo off of the off their website, but leaving up people who have made super racist comments or we were fighting that getting lawyers in involved. All of this is happening to me, and I have no money period. My son is away in school, he's in college. I'm like,
I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to continue to pay your tuition. Like all of this happens to me. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. It's a lot, for sure.
But people are there. That was probably the first time you really had to be vulnerable and ask for help right now. I talk about it in the book.
I had to hit people up like yeah, a lot of people showed up for you, but they were like, first like, is this you for real? I'm like yeah, So that was you know, it was a it was a tough time, but everybody showed up. People came God, he girl, God, God shows up for you. Sending stuff, just sending stuff that I'm like, oh my god, Okay,
this this and this. But you have to kind of go into you gotta get quiet in order to hear where you're supposed to be going and who are your real people and it was a purge because now all those folks like they're out of my life, and I'm in a space where, even though it gets hard, I'm not sitting here saying everything is figured out. No, I'm still every day hustling trying to figure it out. But I'm in a much better space than I was, thank God.
But the ups and downs of that, She's just giving you the outline, by the way, right, Yeah, the ups and downs of that are definitely in the book you talk about. We have to talk about some current things that are going on while I have you in the building. First of all, because you do talk about Jay's deal with the NFL that really initially connected you to them, right you read the book. Yeah, it's a good detail. These are the details you will find in the book
in that moment. Yeah, And I find that interesting because a lot of times I think, and it's sad because it's it's like, you could have the heart to be wanting to do something, you believe something is right, but the optics of things are really important. Absolutely, no matter how good or pure your heart is, no matter how you believe that something that you're doing is good for people, if the optics.
Are wrong, it's gonna get you dragged.
And you get your number wanted to get you dragged, and it could sometimes stunt also the progress because whatever I feel like in that moment that some of that was happening.
Oh, I definitely happened. I mean they had to do some some real damage control work there at Rock Nation to make sure that people understood what was what was the goal of Jay working with the NFL, right like that that had to happen. And you know, when I so I tweeted or posted on Instagram or whatever, somebody tells J to call me because I didn't know him enough, you know, just in passing, but I didn't know him enough.
But I'm like, I need to hear directly so that before I get on the side of you know, with the Twitter thumbs like what the hell is going on? Jay Z sold out Conna Kaepernick.
But you know, before.
I go doing that, I'm gonna do it differently because it had just happened to me. So if it had not been for the fact that I'd just gone through a situation where people were ripping me to shreds based upon somebody else's words or this or whatever, somebody who said I said, angry. I was, I was experiencing it. So I'm like, okay, let's do this different. Don't go up there posting stuff and making statements. Ask I just
put it in in the universe. Somebody tells jay Z please to call me, and sure enough, it wasn't even an hour. Several people were like, hey, you know, call this number right now, and that's how I got to speak to Desiree, and then of course Jay and the whole thing, and then we you know, it's well, first of all, that they knew, they understood that there was a hole in the movement, like people were always asking them for money, to help them with things, help them
with you know whatever. Families who lost their loved ones, they still I think to this day, I'm pretty sure. Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they do support Sean Bell's family to make sure that their kids had a college fund and other things that they need. So they've been doing all of that. They just don't you know them, They don't talk about it, you don't know, but they're involved in all types of things. Sure, and so eventually you got to find out, like where's this money coming from?
Because we can't just deplete ourselves trying to give, give, give to all these causes. It's so many of them. So one of the things that they said was that the relationship between the NFL and Rock Nation was going to give them the ability to help people do their work. And they immediately went off the ground. They were like, Okay,
we're gonna help you guys. We were outside of a detention center in Brooklyn where there was no heat and hot water in December or February, I think it was like the coldest day of the winter, and the incarcerated folks were like banging on the walls. They were freezing,
people were sick. Somebody set a fire. It was like a disaster us and we were out there in the cold, standing out there, and they said when Dez got in touch with She's like, first of all, let's get us an RV because we're not gonna just have y'all out in Nicole and we're gonna get y'all some groceries and different things like that. I don't remember if that was after NFL or not whatever, but yeah, it was after.
But nonetheless they helped us in that way. Then they put a council together, which is the United Justice coalition, a whole bunch of folks that are different types of people doing amazing work. Amazing work or groups like mine, grassroots groups, families who've been impacted, who have foundations, sitting at a table working on issues together. We work together on the Kansas City, Kansas issue, where the officer had been raping black women and other black and blawn women
and other people in underserved communities. He had been raping them for years. This was going on years, putting their children in prison if they even dare to tell anybody what was happening. He was terrorizing the community and the police department knew about it and did absolutely nothing. Now he has since taken his life because he was facing prison time. He was going to trial as an old man.
But he traumatized families, and these were the types of things that they said, we're gonna use the resources that we get from the NFL to partner with you all and do these projects. That was really intriguing to me because I'm not saying that we won't take people's money. We want it because you guess what, we're consumers. So like the NFL doesn't make money without us, as black folks and other people going to games, supporting supporting their players.
So yeah, give us. We want the money. It's okay, it's nothing wrong with taking the money, but we're not gonna take it and allow you to put stipulations on what we can say and what we can do.
I'm surprised that they agreed.
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, so well, you know, so they but I think that was because of how their the deal was set up. It was set up clearly to say we're going to support social justice groups, and they did that work. And you know, we worked with the NFL for a while and and that's it. I mean, you know, it's not a big story. It's just like that's what they did. They connected us together, but nobody ever got in our business. They didn't tell us, oh
you can't talk this way. They're just like sometimes des will be like what did y'all say? Like what explain it to me? Because I don't know what y'all got going on? But somebody called me, so what is happening? It's like, you know, this is the deal. Even if even if they don't agree, they still are not going to tell us that we can't stand up for what we believe in. In the ways that we see fit. So that's that, that's what it's been. People looking for
this story. They could go right about. It's really pretty simple.
You know, they're supporting you, they're.
Supporting our work and making sure that until Freedom and other groups like ours. And it's not like a handout situation because you can't just call over there and draw down money. It ain't that kind of deal. You really got to be doing something that that can be measured like where did it start and where does it end? And I you know, I appreciate that. It makes you better, it makes you stronger, sharpens your your tools.
What did you think? Were you at the Super Bowl this year? No, no, no, I knows.
Still not on that list. I'm not on a lot of lists. But I'm still I still kind of stand in solidarity with Colin and I don't really watch the games and all of that. Still na I ain't going to smooth smoothly smooge. But but you know what, I bet with Roger Goodell, and I mean this was a man. And also shout out to sister Dasha who works up there, you know, and I saw a man who understood. He was really clear, like I get it. This issue is important to you, and we're going to be helpful as
much as we can. It wasn't just me, it was a bunch of people. We're gonna be helpful in ways that we can't. But they're not activists, so you know, I didn't have any expectation of them to just change all of their business practices to align with with our work. That's just now what it is. And they know I will call them out to and we all are clear about that. So there's everything. But I did watch Kendrick's performance, and what did you think? I thought it was incredible.
It was right. Yeah, he did a good thing, A good job he did. He really did. I mean, you know, as with all art, you got to look at it several times to get all the different Well. I think a lot of people missed the power of you know, him speaking to America and where we are, and more importantly saying, we built this nation like black folks standing right at the center of it. We built this nation on our backs for free. And I you know, I
feel like that resonated with me a lot. It also resonated that he didn't have a bunch of folks up there shaking and you know, clothes off and all of that, Like, sometimes we could do that, love the clothes off, Shaken might not know that I'm in that, But sometimes we ain't got to do it, you know, we didn't. Sissa didn't have to like wear a little mini skirt and shake a booty and if she wanted to, I would support it, but she didn't have to. So he showed
that our hip hop is not one dimensional. It has many sides, and being a lyricist still matters, like having actual content and not just no no no no no no, Like he actually has words that matter and hits the soul. So it was really good to me.
Yeah, And when you think about like the whole NFL thing and Jay thing, take take the work and stuff aside, just watching that performance, I was just like, if it was not Jay greenlighting this, this doesn't happen in America, we would never have seen this, not especially Jay put himself in a position in his life to be able to be the person that decides this was going to be, this what's gonna be?
We wouldn't have that would have nobody would have.
Made that decision.
No, no, most people would have been afraid to even ask or even suggest or say this is what's gonna be. They would have been like, we can't do this. It can't be all black people. We gotta add some you know, some white folks in there. You know, it can't be this, can't be that. He can't say these things, can't do that song. You know, can't have Serena, no one understanding the history of of you know, her relationship to the whole thing. They would say, that's just too much for us.
We can't do it. And so I thought, you know, I knew I could see how like Jay's like, yeah, do that be as black as you want to be? It was a black moment. It was a black moment, and I could see how it came together. So yeah, I thought I thought it was great. I thought it represented us well. And I also think it requires people to go deeper than a jingle, you know, because we love a jingle. You could sing due, you know, and when it didn't happen, it was like this what is this?
But this are you gotta go back and look again, Go watch it again again. I watched it again last night. You did the whole thing louder and like sat with it, and wow, it was really powerful. Samuel Jackson SAMs. The performance he does his part is so powerful. If you didn't hear what he said, go back and watch it again.
Word, go back and watch it again, and also get to make his book. I live to tell this story book. Yeap, yes, right, you filled out our question. Here shall we go through this real quick? This is fun time. This is fine, the fun with Tamika. I like to sometimes.
I like to have fun with you because you know it gets heavy.
Do you have things that you do for yourself?
I love having fun?
You do, rad Are you making it a priority for yourself?
No? Just have a good time on I r L.
I asked you what how we could support you what you needed, and you said a husband.
No, I don't want one right now.
No, you changed your mind.
I need one, but just not right now. Okay, in the spring, maybe around summer time. I like to pop out for my birthday, for your birthday. Then after that you take applications. Yes, okay, God, there's so much going on to Mecca. First of all, let's go through your thing here? Anything cute here? We need to sell what is your name? To Meka Mallories, just as some brands. You know, this is the in Real Life questionnaire. Your favorite go to song SWV wee Yes? Do you karaoke?
That's what I said? What I just said, Oh you go to karaoke song? Yeahs s w V week. Do you body that singing it downey? I know who and who the ad libs everything. That's my chance?
Is there? Choreography?
Yeah? Well no, I just you know, by that time, I've probably had a drink or two. So I'm like, swaying.
What is your superpower?
Mmm? I say convening people, convening groups to do powerful things.
You're an organizer, organizement. Who is your celebrity crush?
Yeah? I was gonna write a real live person, And I told Serena, who's here with me? She handles my press and she's and so you said, I said a person. We're not gonna say that. No, I have to know the person. We're not putting that here because Angie will go calling the person right now, like, do you know what happened today on my show? I said, let's put somebody who's gone on the glory. Okay, I chose Tupac leave it alone because I know any person current calling.
Them now, I have to know I'm gonna okay, but even Tupac, you you are too young.
You never met him, right.
It's not true.
You didn't.
When I was in elementary school, they were shooting whatever film he was in that was in Harlem on Amsterdam Avenue. It was a juice. It must have been juice. In fact, it not must have been It was juice for sure. They used my lunchroom cafeteria for their lunch for their breaks.
Wow.
And you know we just I was little, like hi, you know, I saw him on TV. He was so fine, so fine. I must have been nine or ten years old, which is the only time I ever met him in my life.
You did meet him.
I met him all the He came around. You know, the kids were like going crazy in the lunch room, and he came around and spoke to different people and you know, shook our hands and stuff, did some high fives with the boys. It was super cool. And he also threw the football because you you know, we went right outside on that street and every you know, that's where we had recess, and he came and he threw some footballs and had fun with the kids.
So I was like, you know, it just came to me. Is that famous Tupac saying where he says he might not.
Change the world, but he was spark the brain and the person that could change that could have been a little baby to.
That classroom. I wasn't looking at him for no change in the world, even at eight years old. Even at eight years it wasn't about changing no world. Honey. I could say I was eight and I was like, oh man, yeah, Tupot.
Oh my god, that is too funny. What is your bucket list?
What's on my bucket list? What did I say? All?
I said to visit as many countries in Africa as possible. That's a good one.
That's the one.
What is your pet peeve?
People and things that are unsanitary? I cannot take it.
We're not doing that.
Uh huh. I don't like that. Dirty stuff is not my thing.
And the last thing that sent you down a rabbit.
Hole, oh my podcast. I'm trying to figure out how to get it right on YouTube.
The podcast is so good, by the way, everybody know, we're.
On at the tea on my show. That is our podcast, and we've made some changes upgraded and you know, and we're pouring out all into the podcast, like we're really into it now, not to say that we didn't love it before, but we have so many things going on that it was like third or fourth in line. Now it's like our first thing. We're really like planning and intentional about guests. And you know how hard it is to book.
No, I know, it's my most challenging things. That's the most pain in the ass.
But you guys don't need a guest.
So we talk to each other a lot and it works. But there's certain things we don't know, and that's the part. It's like we just won't don't want to be sitting up there pontificating on issues we don't know what we're talking about. So we do make sure we have people that are actually experts in different areas.
That's all I want to see from you guys.
I want to know we don't focus on celebrities. In fact, our celebrity interviews have not been the highest rated. I love that.
No, I totally believe that before you go, because there's all this talk about what we should be boycotting, what we should.
Be doing and not doing.
This di thing is you talk about in your book to how that has affected your life in terms of your family's life.
I don't know what is your what are what are people's marching orders?
I think that DEI is one or let me make sure that I say, because I've been telling myself and others, let's not use the acronym DEI because it takes away from the power of what we're talking diversity, equity and inclusion, Like why is like if that's an issue, why does do you have a problem with that? If that's an issue, that's a problem, Like it shouldn't even be a thing that we're talking about rolling back initiatives for diversity, equity
and inclusion. So but I think that this moment is tied to a higher unfortunately, a higher calling for all of us that we're gonna have to use these moments to say I'm not gonna shop with certain brands, or you know, I'm gonna hold my money, or I'm gonna support more black businesses. We're gonna have to use that as an opportunity to get ourselves disciplined and ready for the fight that we will go through for the next
four years. And so black women, brown women, white women, whoever it is, go to Target and spend full five hours walking those aisles looking down. It's our piece. We'd be in there buying stuff we don't need. There's a woman in my comments section who said that she closed her Target credit cards since this diversity, equity and inclusion
thing happened. And she spent forty six thousand dollars in Target over the last twelve years, forty six thousand dollars over and she said, and now I'm sick to my stomach. I will not go in there. I'm not purchasing anything from them at all. That didn't come from us. It came from the people. And when the people are ready to rise up, you, as an organizer, are are there to help shape it, make sure there are real demands, their clear goals, get people together.
I was gonna ask you that what are the demands have you? Has anybody spoken to like, yeah you.
Have oh no, no no.
The head of Target hasn't because they should.
No no no, But I'm the stock has continuously dropped, so we ain't even got to argue. We're just gonna show. We ain't gonna talk, because I think that when you hit one, others will start being like the people, upset they hold in their money. We got two trillion dollars. As black people, we would be I think they say, the twelfth richest nation in the world if we just live by ourselves. Can you imagine that? Why we don't see ourselves as investors? Why don't we see ourselves as
stakeholders in these companies? So one of the things that they did when you talk about the demands, and you can go to targetfast dot org. That's targetfast dot org and you can see a bunch of stuff. But one of the demands is that they decided that they're not going to report to the Human Rights Commissioned report Card, which says, you know, how many people do you have people of color, women your employees? Like that's what the
report card has been about holding corporations accountable. They say they're not doing that anymore. Why why would you not want people to know where you stand except that you are able to go back to being what most corporations started out as, all white, all male. That's what you're trying to do because otherwise you be proud to report and say we're doing all these wonderful things. We think
they should restore that. Absolutely. We also know that they committed to two billion dollars by twenty twenty five, which, by the way, this twenty twenty five is ending in December, so we've got what eleven months before the year is over. Did you spend the two billion dollars with black owned businesses and women and you know, other diverse groups. Why haven't we heard a report on what happened. We're not stupid, So we're asking questions, really to understand what's the trajectory
of where you all are going? So when you ask, as he called me, he may not, but guess what he's gonna be calling somebody soon. Don't worry and their other demands, they're a lot to go through. You know. I think another thing is that we do need our own distribution networks. We have to have to use this as an opportunity to build our own right. We always talk about that, but I think this current federal government is going to force us to have to take better
care of one another. And we think that they should be pouring money into our banks and allowing us to have opportunities to build that because guess what, we're not asking for handouts. Angie. People seem to think that this is all about, like you know, you're begging why you want to beg them people for their stuff. It's not their stuff. We buy the product. It's not money. We're not asking the government for free things. We pay taxes. We deserve to have the money that we spend circulate
back into our communities. We are not asking anybody to give us free stuff.
Right, It's not a handout. It's not a handout. Yeah, do you how do I know? We have to wrap this just it makes me.
The whole Target thing makes me sad because there's so many women that we.
That's a spot. Now, it's a spot.
But I like you know products. Yeah, Tabitha, Tabitha young man Maxwell.
I think of them in these moments like this must be a challenge, This must be very challenging for them to be inside and this be happening.
This is the time to fight. You get together with other business owners. Target did not even respect the business owners enough to call them in advance and tell them that this change, this shift was gonna happen and be announced to the public. So they have impacted the bottom line. We didn't do that as consumers. They did that to them. Their business partner disrespected them and broke the contract, the deals, the deal terms. They broke it because they entered a
relationship with certain morals and values in place. And it guess what if one of those business owner goes out right now and gets drunk and drunk driving kills somebody. I bet you those those products won't be on the shelves. I bet you they would pull it because you've done something that now we can't be We can't be in exactly right. So why don't we feel we have that power?
We have to be able to flex it because I promise you, the time that we bring one corporation to their knees, the rest of them gonna say maybe this. Maybe we can't be listening to Donald Trump because he getting us in trouble. We will not die without target. Trust me, you will not die.
All right? You see what I did? Brought it back to ken last absolute last. We gotta go.
First of all, get the book I Live to Tell the Story Tamika D.
Mallory.
It's in bookstores, Black Privilege in print publishing. Shout out to Charlemagne. And the last thing is that Women's History Month is coming. Yes, leave us with something, leave us something that we should aspire to want to see, or do you know for women's history.
I'm not. I'm gonna tell you just like this, we're gonna stick with the same thing. Ladies. If you don't feel respected, keep your money in your pocket. That's all i'm gonna say.
There is Spaka bagory everybody.
Thank you. Angie's probably five point one