[00:00:00] Serena: Sometimes our industry throws around terms that not all of us really understand. And partly because we've created something different from the beginning. But in this episode, I have a guest on who is passionate about talking about changing the traditional firm model. And so I asked her how she defines that traditional firm model, because if you're like me, you may have built your bookkeeping business intentionally. And if not, that's okay, but sometimes we don't realize that we're doing things
[00:00:37] Different.
[00:00:38] Serena: than what already exists out there because our brain works a little differently. So I asked her to define the traditional for model. And we also talked about. Bringing and attracting talent into our industry as a whole. I asked her questions about what it was like taking over her parents accounting firm, and what that's like. And we had a really great conversation. This week's guest is Erin Andrews. She is the cohost of another podcast called Owners and Operations for Accountants. And I, I really hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. If you've never heard of Aaron This is going to be a great introduction to her so sit back and just enjoy the conversation i had with her
[00:01:24]
[00:01:53] Serena: All right. Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. Today I have a lovely guest Erin Andrews, who is the co-host of Owners and Operators podcast. So would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:02:07] Erin: Yes. Thank you for having me. I'm Erin Andrews. I, I, yes, I have a podcast as well, owners and operations for accountants. And we have another business called it's Owners and operations where we help accounting firm owners. But I started out I'm a second gen accounting firm owner. My dad's a cpa. My mom's an enrolled agent, so I grew up in the the business, I guess you'd call it. So my dad's been doing about 42 years. I started 16 years ago full time and doing a long time. My husband started a couple years, I, after I did, so we're a true family business based outta Massachusetts, but we're fully remote now. Covid allowed us to go flare remote. And really I, I get and expanded our, you know, our job pool, our hiring pool, all that stuff.
[00:02:54] But we love to focus our bookkeeping even though we're a full accounting firm, actually bookkeeping is a huge part of what we do. It's one of the reasons why I didn't become a cpa. I passed a few parts and I was like, I didn't wanna be limited by the licensing and all that stuff. So I'm actually very passionate about bookkeeping. Helping business owners and we only work with business owners and they're small businesses on a year round basis. And I just love helping accounting and bookkeeping firm owners and talking about it and trying to get a traditional model and change the stigma of the accounting industry. Like we just said, not just a bunch of old dudes, you know, in suits.
[00:03:32] Serena: Yes.
[00:03:33] Erin: Just hanging, you know, just doing their old dude things.
[00:03:36] Serena: Yeah.
[00:03:36] Erin: Dying at their desks occasionally after tax season. So I just wanna help the industry and help get more people attracted to it. So,
[00:03:43] Serena: Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Like, how can, how can we all work together to recruit more people to the industry. I know like the cloud accounting podcast talks about it a lot, but like for anyone listening, if you can affect one person and help them figure out their college career path or whatever like that is also good .
[00:04:07] Erin: Oh yeah.
[00:04:08] Serena: You don't have to affect the masses, but to just have one-on-one conversations with college students or high school students and kind of get their wheels turning and show them the possibilities. I think that's a great start.
[00:04:19] Erin: Well, absolutely, because I don't, When you go to college or high school or whatever you're talking, you hear accountant, first of all, nobody talks about being a bookkeeper, like anything like that. There's, but there's so many facets to go into in our industry that, that it's just, it's incredible. But when you go to college, the education itself is so geared like towards corporate, and it's just selling a different, selling a different service, basically.
[00:04:44] Serena: Yeah.
[00:04:44] Erin: So if you can just, I remember I had this. College student, or actually it was high school, high school student, and I met her, she's gonna be a nanny for our kids, like part-time. And I was like, What do you wanna do? She was like, I wanna be a small business account. And I was like, Whoa. What what? Yeah. I was like, What? I was like, You came to the right person. So she ended up working for us, not as our nanny, but she did like a bunch of entry level bookkeeping stuff and, and she actually realized she did not wanna do it, but she got the like public accounting experience. Now she's going to school to be a GC and own a business. So in gen, she actually, I, it made her realize she wanted to own a business.
[00:05:19] Serena: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Erin: But it's just, she didn't realize, she just thought she'd be doing like recording bond interest for, you know, I'm like, No, no, no. That's, that's a large corporation that's completely different from what we do. So,
[00:05:28] Serena: Yeah. And even large corporations, like we didn't do that. Like the only time I've come across anything with bonds is on the 60 exam.
[00:05:38] Erin: Literally, literally. And I still have no idea what to do with them. So it's okay.
[00:05:42] Serena: Yeah, so like that's one of the things that like, I think it takes a different maybe a perspective or mindset for those who, like, I didn't go into accounting on purpose, like I didn't start out as an accounting major. I knew there was accounting classes at my high school, but those were electives and I was like, that's nerdy and I'm not good at math, so why would I do accounting? And so like, I just didn't understand really what it was. And it wasn't required, so I was like, I already know how to balance a checkbook. I'm good. ,
[00:06:14] Erin: That's shock. That's actually shocking that you know how to do that back then.
[00:06:16] Serena: Well, that's because my dad was an entrepreneur and I did his books when I was like 12 years old. He taught me how to mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Categorize his expenses in the little ledger paper, and I would write checks for the business. And he taught me how to balance the checkbook like all manually.
[00:06:31] Erin: Yeah. No, that's the, that's the best way to learn, to be honest.
[00:06:34] Serena: Yeah. And so I didn't need the accounting class, apparently , but I didn't, that wasn't even on my radar to go into accounting. In college, I actually started out as a elementary education major, but I had to get a job and I ended up working in the office of a grocery store and slowly taking over all these little bookkeeping and accounting tasks and I was like, This is really easy. Let me see if I like, should, maybe I should take an accounting course. And so I took a, I enrolled the next semester in just like one accounting class and I was like, This is so easy. Maybe I should change my major. And even the professor was like, Why are you an accounting major ? And I was like, I don't know, maybe I should switch. And so I did.
[00:07:14] Erin: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Serena: Yeah. And that's how I ended up in it. But a lot of people don't really end up on it end up in it on purpose.
[00:07:20] Erin: Nope.
[00:07:21] Serena: Unless it's like. Did you even?
[00:07:23] Erin: No, I did not wanna be an accountant. I always told my parents I would never be an accountant. I actually went to school. I was a I, okay, so I was a business major with a concentration in accounting cuz I knew I wanted to own my own business eventually. And it just was, I just took the classes. I wanted to be an event planner. So event planner account, but then I also realized you have no life typically on the weekends. I was huge into restaurants. I was a waitress for a really long time. I helped events there. But no, I definitely, I always said I will never be an accountant.
[00:07:54] So, and it's funny, my sister who co-hosting a podcast with me, she will never be an accountant. She's actually really good at book even when she hates it. But she's like, I'll never be an accountant. I was like, But you work in the industry now.
[00:08:05] Serena: Yeah.
[00:08:05] Erin: Just can't get away from it.
[00:08:06] Serena: We trapped you.
[00:08:08] Erin: Yes.
[00:08:08] Serena: Yeah. That's so funny. I have, I don't know if I've really met anybody so far in all of my travels. Just kidding. In all of my, like interacting with other accountants throughout my career and, and everything that actually went into it on purpose. It's pretty funny to hear everybody's story so, even you as a generational accounting firm owner.
[00:08:30] Erin: Yeah. I mean, my husband, he was an economics major, went to Northeastern, he worked at State Street in fund accounting. He actually, he didn't wanna do public accounting at all, but we needed to hire somebody. We couldn't find anybody. And I was like, Hey. Hey, you wanna come in? And he is like, not really work with you and your parents working with you here we're, yeah, 15 years later. So we're good. Yeah.
[00:08:53] Serena: That's crazy. So this, I love the difference of like your path into it than like I was saying before we hit record most of my audience, or at least I think most of my audience, it's kinda hard to know sometimes. I know like at least a lot of my Instagram audience, I'm not sure about the podcast itself, but a lot of my Instagram audience, they're like me where they had some accounting experience or worked in corporate and started their own bookkeeping business. Some of us are kind of building it into an agency. Some of us are doing the solo thing. But I love listening to your podcast cuz it's such a different perspective of like, you kind of like you took over something that already exists and had to change it, whereas like, I got to build something Exactly how I wanted.
[00:09:41] Erin: Yeah.
[00:09:41] Serena: Yeah. So can you speak to like that whole thing and if sometimes you're like, I wish I could just blow it up and start over.
[00:09:48] Erin: Oh, well, yeah. So my, the good thing is, I mean, we did have, my parents did have a traditional accounting firm. My mom was actually really into technology, so we were paperless by 2007, which is okay. Kind of unheard of. They, like I said, we had remote working capabilities really early on, so a lot of that stuff I was very fortunate with. But transforming, like even just the mindset that my parents have compared to what we have. That has actually probably what been one of like the biggest hurdles or changes? I'm not really sure.
[00:10:21] Even my father, he still practices a CPA Uh, he works fully remotely and out of his house. He hired an employee and he's like, You're gonna be with me, you're gonna be on call 24/7. Like, and I'm like, Dude, dad, there is no emergencies in accounting. You're not gonna keep this guy. Like, it's just not gonna work actually. And we have a retreat this week and he's coming to it cuz he's still kind of like a straight line employee too. So he's gonna see it and be like, What am I doing? Sorry dad. It's really that mindset where you have to work all the time. If you don't answer the phone, the client's phone calls on the weekends, you're not doing a good job. If you're not working 16 hours a day during tax season, you're not doing a good job.
[00:10:57] It's just, that was one of the biggest things. So going from that traditional work all the time, mindset to, No, we don't work more than 40 hours. We have unlimited PTO for our staff, they can take tax season off. That was actually one of the biggest things. And also it was ingrained in me too. So I was like, No, this client emailed me. I have to get back to them. Yeah. Or no, how are we gonna take PTO during tax season? And it, that was, that was a shift for me too, cuz I heard about, like, I just, That's all I heard all the time, right? Yeah. Even answering the phone, if you stop picked up by the third ring, you like, I don't know. What's wrong with you? I don't know. We get yelled at basically.
[00:11:34] So that's been like really cool to watch the transition cuz we have a very successful firm and we're not doing all that stuff that he did. But even the client, he always did bookkeeping during the year, the monthly accounting, but then tax season would hit and we would just have to focus on tax returns. So we'd have to pause that and just focus on tax returns. So that transition from, we're truly a monthly accounting firm, from stopping everything. Like we couldn't even do, we couldn't do anything during tax season before.
[00:12:01] So that's been really cool. But I definitely give my parents their credit for setting a good foundation. Yeah. However, sometimes I wish I, I'm like, if I had just started this from scratch, I like, would I have a different niche cuz we're we contractors in the trades. I just, certain things I think would be different, but I am actually pretty grateful for how they set it up. Yeah.
[00:12:20] Serena: Yeah.
[00:12:21] Erin: Yeah. Honestly, some of the values that we hold in our firm are values probably from my parents, but I'm also their daughters, so that makes sense.
[00:12:27] Serena: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:12:29] Erin: Yeah.
[00:12:29] Serena: Yeah. The first well the only accounting firm I ever worked in was a really small tax practice. It was like a solo practitioner. His wife was the office manager. Mm-hmm. , his daughter would come in and help during tax season and do some tax returns. And then there was me and another accountant at that time I was, I was their staff accountant and their, their other accountant was a senior accountant. She had her CPA license. She ended up becoming partner and they were all paperless too, and that was like in 2010, which was also kind of unheard of back then. And so that's all I've ever really known is the paperless environment for a firm Anyways, Which set me up well. Because I'm like, now I knew how to structure the folders and do all the things
[00:13:13] Erin: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. We even started doing remote bookkeeping back in 2008, so like, I would have clients call and be like, Can you come over? And I'm like, No. Why don't you try this new thing? It's called bill.com, you can scan all your stuff to it and we'll just put you on right networks. And so that was huge cuz we were doing accounts payable for people and not going to their office and picking up things. Mm-hmm. , it's funny to think about. I've like talked to other colleagues and they still talk about going to offices. I'm like
[00:13:40] Serena: picking up the backup,
[00:13:41] Erin: can't even wrap my head around it anymore. I'm like, Who still goes and picks up Bills .
[00:13:46] Serena: I know,
[00:13:47] Erin: I don't.
[00:13:47] Serena: Yeah,
[00:13:48] Erin: So, So that was, yeah, that, I was very fortunate for that too. So I. Kudos to my mom cause she know that. .
[00:13:55] Serena: For sure. So before we hit record, well, and I kind of already like alluded to it, how one of the things that you really like to help in our industry is getting people out of that traditional firm model. And so I wanted to see if you would. Just kind of give us an idea of what that traditional firm model is, because like I said, I think there's a lot of us that have just created something unknowingly really great, that is not the traditional firm model, but there's probably still listeners that do have that
[00:14:26] Erin: Oh yeah. Yeah. So the traditional firm model is, well, in accounting in general, is the tax season heavy, Right? You're just focusing on taxes, you. From January through April 15th, or whenever they decide to have the deadline now is you're just slammed working 16 hours a week. You're just at the beck and call of your clients. You don't take in ideal clients. You don't have a criteria for the type of client you want. You're, you don't really have a niche. So basically if someone calls you on the phone and is like, I need my taxes done, or whatever, Yes, I will take you. It's just no focus. You're also, you're not structured.
[00:15:02] You're just putting your head down and working. So you're not structured, you're not trying to move forward. We were like that for a long time. So we didn't have goals in place. We didn't have a leadership identify. A team identified our values. We had our values, but they actually weren't the right ones. Our vision, we didn't have that laid out. So basically I see a traditional accounting firm as you just started a business and you just started working and you didn't really think about. it Yeah,
[00:15:26] Serena: you just created yourself a job.
[00:15:28] Yes, exactly. And you're just working and grinding. And one of the reasons why I wanted to start helping accounting firm owners is I was in all these groups on Facebook and they were just like, I hate my life. They were literally saying, I hate my life. And I was like, That's not cool. , like, why? And you're working so hard. why?. They're also not doing things like implementing bookkeeping and their monthly services and creating monthly cash flow, and just also helping their clients. They're just seeing taxes or even if, even if they do the bookkeeping, it's like catch up work it. They're just not helping the client, so they're not helping themselves and they're not helping the client. That's how I. A traditional firm is that
[00:16:10] Yeah. And and it's like a trap because you're stuck in that never ending cycle, so you don't really have time to think about helping the client
[00:16:18] Erin: Yes.
[00:16:18] Serena: And time to think about doing things differently.
[00:16:21] Erin: Well, you're also, the other thing is like they're an owner. And you come across this in any industry, I have to be the one that does it. The client won't, let this x, y, and Z do it. They'll only wanna speak to me. I I don't have the time to train this skill. That's that mentality. That's not true. First of all, like as long as you have all this other stuff, it's okay. You can delegate the work. You can let, let go control and you'll never get out. If it's just always you doing the same thing, even if you have staff, you have to learn to delegate and trust others and train them.
[00:16:54] Serena: Yeah. Yeah, so true. So one of the things that you talked about on your most recent podcast was like the fear or the worry or whatever, that you have that there's so many people coming into the industry just creating like a solopreneur bookkeeping firm or whatever. And you kind of alluded to the, to. The concern that there's not going, maybe it actually was your guest, but he was talking about how like it's unfortunate that some of these people don't wanna build teams. They could build a really good business with mm-hmm. , a whole team behind each client or supporting each client, which is how I'm working on building my firm.
[00:17:31] Like I came from corporate, so I have layers, I have that, like I want everything to be reviewed thing. Like the quality control issue.
[00:17:39] Erin: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:39] Serena: Which, so I've built it to where my clients all get at least two people on their team. So everything is double checked.
[00:17:47] Erin: Yep.
[00:17:47] Serena: And I didn't even realize that I was doing the agency model by creating that. It was more just for my own peace of mind of making sure that I could delegate things and they would still. Be checked and it didn't have to be double checked by me. In the beginning it was, but now I've added a person in between that has the skill to review things. Do they catch everything I would catch? Maybe, maybe not. But that's how they're gonna learn .
[00:18:12] Erin: Mm-hmm. . Exactly. Exactly.
[00:18:13] Serena: So so is that like something that you wish more people would do or were you kind of indifferent? It was more your guest. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
[00:18:24] Erin: So I have opinions on people like starting businesses, a couple. So I I, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone just starting a bookkeeping business, right? Or any business, and it's just them, and that's how they support their family, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that it gets, when you keep taking on clients and you're setting expectations and you're just getting it over your head, what's the point in that? Yeah, you might as well. Then really start a business. I mean, I'm not saying solopreneurs are not business owners. They are obviously, but it's, you're doing a disservice to your clients by not growing it properly, setting procedures up and like, you know, having the backup and all that. I think it just depends on what you wanna do. Just don't put yourself over your head cuz that sucks .
[00:19:05] Serena: Yeah.
[00:19:05] Erin: Like you're working so much and then, and you have no, no one to fall back on. Cuz managing employees is very difficult. It is not easy to have employees. Right. So,
[00:19:14] Serena: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:14] Erin: It just depends.
[00:19:15] Serena: It's, it's one of those things that even though like there's days where I'm like, I'm so glad I have a team. There's other days that I'm like, Maybe I should just do it all myself. ,
[00:19:24] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Having a,
[00:19:25] Serena: because it is, it's stressful. So, but everything about running a business is stressful, so it's not for everyone. But yeah, it was interesting to hear his take on it. I was like, Okay. I could see, like, it is, it depends on the client too. It depends on the client acumen. Their own business acumen, what their expectations are. A lot of clients do want that one single point of contact. They want to work with a smaller solopreneur because they feel like that person's more part of their team. So Also, if that's what you want, you have to make sure that's what your client expects and vice versa if you want to build a team. This is what I've been coming to realize that like now when I go out and do like a speaking engagement, like I just did a retreat this last weekend.
[00:20:08] I talk The team that supports my clients, Not me. Like I'm the face, but the team is what you get when you work with us. And so I've been like really trying to practice that whole like yeah, you get a whole team to support you, and you'll still have the same point of contact. As long as there's not turnover.
[00:20:27] Erin: Right.
[00:20:28] Serena: But we can't promise that forever. But if they are also in growth mode, they'll understand. And so that's the other thing that I try to coach my students through is like, they're like, But, but my client's so used to talking to me. And I'm like, Yeah, all you have to do is have the conversation with them. And if they're not okay with talking to someone else on your team, you get to make the decision whether or not you wanna keep supporting them yourself or letting them go because you've grown out of them.
[00:20:52] Yeah, well,
[00:20:53] Erin: it's also I do the same exact thing, so I do the sales and the business development for our company. I sell it as a benefit. I say, You're not like this person. They might take a sick day, but you have a backup. And I also set the expectation like, this is not a solo firm, Like this is a company and you will get a team approach, but you sell it the benefits. So it's all how you set up expectations. Obviously legacy clients are different, but there are ways to phase them out of you being the client. I have successfully done it. I don't have any client work, no one even wants to talk to me, which is fantastic. My, and I'm like, My team is better. You don't wanna talk to me, It's fine. So yeah, it just depends. But if you, if you just really wanna be that go-to person and that's all you wanna do, that's totally fine too. I think you just have to set boundaries with a client.
[00:21:40] Serena: Yeah.
[00:21:41] Erin: and not just be on call for them, cuz they're your client. Not, they're not, You know what?
[00:21:46] Serena: Yeah,
[00:21:47] Erin: your family.
[00:21:49] Serena: Yeah. I'm not even on call for my family, so .
[00:21:51] Erin: No, no, no, no.
[00:21:53] Serena: I'm like it can wait. .
[00:21:55] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. There's no emergencies in bookkeeping, period.
[00:21:57] Serena: Yeah. So, yeah. So Let me look at my notes. That was kind of like one of the big things that was like an aha by listening to that episode that I was like, Okay, Okay, so like if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, I don't know which way I should go now you have two different perspectives of looking at like, the benefits of it versus, how you might have to learn how to sell it. And it is, most of us start out as a A one person thing. Yeah. So there will be a transitional period where you're working on transitioning people to a team or clients to a team. And stuff like that.
[00:22:35] But I think another benefit of that is, When you are talking with these clients, whether it's an existing client or a future client, you can tell them like, Oh, if you are wanting to grow and get yourself out of the day to day, I've taken myself through that and I can help support you in that strategy. So if you're also trying to sell higher level advisory services.
[00:22:56] Erin: Yes. Yes, that's right.
[00:22:57] Serena: Huge plus.
[00:22:58] Erin: Yeah, that's right. And if you are a solo person right now, you're actually in a fantastic position. Because if, if you do wanna grow, you can set your values, you can, That, that really comes from you and ma, it's your, your tea, your firm, right? So that's your company. It should revolve around your values. You can set your vision, you can start creating SOPs, like just document it so that when you do hire somebody, you have the way that you wanna do it, and they can, It's repeatable. So rather than trying to untrain people out of ways, they've done it, you know, in your firm for a little while. This is a great opportunity for you to just, even if you don't plan on growing for a little while, Start creating them, set 'em aside.
[00:23:36] Serena: Yeah.
[00:23:36] Erin: You know, so I mean that, I think that is a benefit of being a solo person and, and you, that's a great opportunity to set ideal client criteria and a niche because then you can handle what comes in and you can set up processes exactly for that niche and that ideal client.
[00:23:50] Serena: Yeah. I sometimes like. I, I almost take for granted how efficient our processes are because of our, like, because the niche and the software specialization we have and all of that. That I'm kind of like, I couldn't imagine going back to doing three different softwares and five, six different industries like
[00:24:15] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you can't, you know, you can't, you can't be an expert in. So, yeah, that's not no possible, So, yeah. Good. You're a niche then. What's your niche?
[00:24:22] Serena: Online course creators and online business. Okay. So we have some with an e-commerce component that have a course and a physical product.
[00:24:30] Erin: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:30] Serena: uh, But for the most part, courses and like online service providers.
[00:24:35] Erin: Yeah. That's really, that's a, that's a niche right there. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
[00:24:39] Serena: It's such a niche that like, I can't, It's funny cuz someone I think I was talking to one of my students and then I also brought it up in the retreat I was at because the, those were the people at the retreat. And someone was asking like, Is there a benefit to working with a bookkeeper that really understands your industry? And I was like, Oh, don't get me started.
[00:25:02] Erin: That's right.
[00:25:02] Serena: Oh, let me count the ways. Yeah. But, but one of the big reasons was I was like, especially for you guys, this is a fairly new industry.
[00:25:10] Erin: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:11] Serena: So there isn't benchmarking data out there, but. Most of my client base is your industry. I can benchmark you against each other without sharing confidential information. Of course. but I can set KPIs and be like, this is what's happening in the other clients that we have that are like you, so we know this is achievable. Let's get you there. Or vice versa. Like some of them are like, We really wanna increase our profit margin above 50%, and I'm like, you are actually doing really good. So if you increase it more than that, that means you're either overworking or underpaying people. so yeah.
[00:25:47] Erin: Let's chill out .
[00:25:48] Serena: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's amazing what nicheing
[00:25:51] Erin: and they need that perspective sometimes, right?
[00:25:53] Serena: Yeah. So when you can pull like hard data, actually you can't talk about someone building courses and all that stuff, and also talk about construction. You just can't, Right? It's like, I mean, you. But you can't really, you know, so it's just having that, And then you said, you know the platforms too.
[00:26:08] Erin: Mm-hmm. So Yeah, it's just, we do the same thing. We, we have people set up like Builder Trend, which has to be contracting. You can't do that if you're focusing on five different industries.
[00:26:17] Serena: Yeah. Because you're now learning all these different softwares, how they interact with QuickBooks and all the pitfalls, and then all the things. And so I can tell you. From working with certain clients. There's a few, you know, different softwares that clients have, and I can tell you which ones are the better ones when it comes to integrating with our accounting software.
[00:26:36] Erin: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:37] Serena: And things like that. So tell us a little bit about what you've got going on in your world and what you've been doing with owners and op operations. Right. I said op, that's fine.
[00:26:49] Erin: Everybody says operators. It's fine, it's fine. It kinda, it's like I was thinking about the other day, I'm like, well those are actually owners and operators that make sense cuz they're just different names for the same thing, but it's operations. But so for our accounting firm, Basically what we're doing for helping accounting promoters is what we've done the past several years is the, just helping people get there a lot faster. I'm, I'm very big into the accounting world. I'm on the board of Directors for National Accounting Association. I've been, I just, I just love talking to accountants, bookkeepers, tax people. So what we're helping in, in addition to helping them build like a better firm, you know, helping them identify ideal client niche work on goals, things like that, is we just wanna change the stigma of the accounting industry, just like we said before. So people wanna join it. So people, you know, I think, I think we lost 40. In the past three years, two and a half years since Covid hit. Yeah. That's, that's not good. People need accountants also.
[00:27:44] We're in the best position to help business owners. So instead of someone just saying, I'm gonna just open book email, I'm just gonna do all the books, you just reconciling, every month you're giving them QuickBooks reports. You wanna actually help them, and the only way to help them is to give yourself back more time to set your business up properly. So I, I just hate it when I see someone go into an industry. And they just hate their lives. They don't see anybody, They don't see their friends. I used to have friends that used to say, Oh, we know we can't talk to you between January and April, and I don't have that anymore. So we do have a course for that, for helping with that. But ultimately my goal is to just change the stigma of the accounting industry and try to get people to wanna do it. And, Actually help other business owners, cuz you probably would agree we're in the best position to do that. Yeah. But by, I always see all these coaches, like on Instagram and stuff like that, Oh, I can help you with your business. I'm like, But can you really? We can. Like this is how we help you. You know, like we. Hard data. Love the data. Yeah. Use the data. So let's just, that's what my goal is.
[00:28:40] Serena: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So are you doing any like active visibility stuff on like with students, like accounting students or high schools or colleges or anything like that at this point? Or is that like on your radar?
[00:28:53] Erin: It's on my radar. I've always wanted to do, to do stuff in colleges and in high schools. I actually considered starting doing something. With that girl I told you about that one, that, that worked for us and my son and trying to like, get more in the like, like so people could relate to it a little bit more. It's on the horizon though to get more out there. Right now it's just kind of, The problem I see is with accounting firm owners or anybody in our industry is they just have to change their mindset with how this industry is. So you gotta start from the top cuz they're the ones hiring these people.
[00:29:23] Serena: Yeah.
[00:29:23] Erin: That are coming in. So if you're 21 years old, you and you go to a firm that says you, you are required to work a minimum of 55 hours for over a quarter of your life. Okay. That's January through April 15th. That's over a quarter of a year. And then you go to another accounting firm and they. Just like 40 hours maybe, occasionally extra, just to help out and you get a limited pto who's gonna be more happy and engaged in taking the job?
[00:29:48] Serena: Yeah.
[00:29:48] Erin: Right. We have to step in. You have to do hybrid working if you offer that. There's just things you have to change. And I think it's so ingrained in firm owners that this is how things have gone and it has to change. So educating those people first and then going down to, to show the opportunity to the younger people that when they do wanna get into it, You don't hate your life.
[00:30:08] Serena: I remember and when I was in corporate and I think at this point I was the accounting manager and one of the first people I hired to build out my team was first out, first to just help in ap And he stuck with us for quite a while, but he was getting his accounting degree and he kept saying like, Well, when I. My degree. I'm gonna go work for one of the big four. And I was like, Don't do it. , don't do it. You don't have to. You don't have to go that route.
[00:30:37] Erin: Nope.
[00:30:38] Serena: To succeed in this career. Nope. But he was drinking the Kool-Aid of the recruitment process in his college and his university. Some of 'em, they recruit pretty heavily from my didn't. So I never experienced that and it was never on my radar to go to a big. Um, Thankfully, but I think that's just because of the college I went to and the community I was in. But most people don't experience that. They get that like, Oh, this is the path that we're gonna get you prepared to pass the CPA exam and then go into a big four.
[00:31:10] And this is. How you, This is the only option in accounting. And I was like, That's not the only option. Look at me like I never even went to a big four and I'm your manager dude. . Yeah. We have like a pretty cool work environment. And he was like, Well I just wanna really try it out. And then he did, when he graduated, he quit even though he had like started to like rise up the ranks in our depart. He quit to go work for I think it wasn't one of the big four, it was
[00:31:37] Erin: somewhat similar
[00:31:38] Serena: cbis or something. I was in California and like a year later, he came back asking if he could come back to the company. Because he was like, It sucks . And I was like, I freaking told you.
[00:31:51] Erin: My biggest pet peeve is I go on Instagram, we follow the big four. All of their posts are about how much accounting sucks and how much work. It it like, it like enrages me. I'm like, Why are you doing this? You're one of the biggest recruiters into our field, and you're telling people how much they're gonna hate their lives. Of course, they're not gonna go in the field.
[00:32:11] Serena: Yeah. Yeah. I heard you say that on the other podcasts and I was like, That is so true. That is so true. It's so anyone listening, I encourage you, like if you do have some sort of connection with a younger person or a community college or something like that. Just like start having conversations about how it can be different. Talk about how you run your own firm and, and things like that. That's one of my big visions and reasons for continuing to hire in my firm and grow it as an agency is because I wanna create that work environment. A, some people never had, and B some aspects of the work environment I never had
[00:32:48] Erin: Yeah, Yeah. You wanna, Yeah. You, you, you wanna make it a business that people wanna go to and have a culture that people enjoy and they love it. Yeah. We're doing a retreat this week for our team. I live in Florida, so they're coming down to Florida, which is, I'm sure it's great. We live in a resort town, so, but it's, We always, It's just all about my employees versus all about the work too.
[00:33:08] Serena: Yeah.
[00:33:08] Erin: So you just, something has to give and that's where it starts, I think. Like people like us starting, firms that like
[00:33:14] Serena: Yeah.
[00:33:14] Erin: Are different.
[00:33:15] Serena: And then, and as you know, as things change in the business landscape too, like the younger business owners, they're gonna want a different type of firm. They don't wanna go to their dad's CPA anymore or their parents' CPA anymore because those guys make them feel stupid. I've had clients come to me and be like, I don't wanna take my taxes to my parents' CPA anymore. Can you recommend someone else? Because they just make me feel stupid. And I'm like, Yes, I got you.
[00:33:41] Erin: Yeah. That too. Yeah. And it's just like being superior, like Yes. Just accountants need to just slow down a little bit and just understand. I mean, I understand like,
[00:33:50] Serena: we're not doctors. Come on, let's get real.
[00:33:52] Erin: No,
[00:33:53] Serena: we don't need to act like that.
[00:33:54] Erin: No. I also think it's a lot of the personality, like, to be honest, like a lot of them are just straightforward. They just are like, Well, hello. Like, we're very practical. I think our brains are just different. But yeah, like we interviewed someone who was 21 and he was like, I just wanna work in a great place where I'm appreciated and I don't wanna work more than 40 hours. and this, and like, that's gonna be every single person that they're, you know, they're, they're watching people on YouTube and Instagram or whatever. Okay. I'm really sound like an old person, like the influencers and like make a butt ton of money making videos. Like they're not gonna wanna go on our industry where they're just treated like crap basically.
[00:34:31] Serena: Yeah.
[00:34:31] Erin: And I mean, you should pay your dues in any industry you do to be. Totally, That's my opinion. But, but yeah. It's up to people like us to help. That's what we're doing.
[00:34:39] Serena: Yes, I agree. Awesome. We are changing the world even though we're accountants. .
[00:34:45] Erin: Yeah. Not it's fine.
[00:34:46] Serena: Saving lives.
[00:34:47] Erin: Yes. Yes. You could be saving business owners. That stuff is important. Yeah. During Covid it was like these businesses going out and I'm like, Oh my God. These are like, you know, people that tend to own a business. They, they didn't really get it and I'm like, this is my business is like my third child, so. We can help business owners too. There's such a trickle down effect for everything. I think what we do.
[00:35:08] Serena: Absolutely.
[00:35:08] Erin: Clearly very passionate about it.
[00:35:10] Serena: me too.
[00:35:11] Erin: Good. Good.
[00:35:12] Serena: Well, where can people connect with you, either online or offline? Most people Online.
[00:35:19] Erin: Yeah, online. I don't even know how someone do I'll, You can come visit me if you want. I live in Florida, so I have a, I have a great place to live. So you can check us out @ownersandoperations and that, that's our handle on. Instagram, we do have a private Facebook group owners and operations Facebook group. And that's like where we, we host, we actually have our podcast. We do it live every Friday and then we edit it for podcast format. There is a podcast Owners and Operations accountant, and we have a course. I'll give you a discount code if anybody wants to sign up for it. Awesome. But yeah, so that's, I do wanna check out my accounting firm. It's straight line, but it's spelled really weird. S T R A T L I G N. We're rebranding shortly. It's been 15 years of that horrible name. Yeah.
[00:36:00] Serena: Why do we have to tell everyone how to spell this?
[00:36:02] Erin: Yeah, oh my God. It's like the most ambiguous name ever. And there's a line above the anyways, so yeah, I love talking about all of this stuff, so if anybody wants to reach out and talk about it, I'll talk. Bookkeeping, accounting, running a firm all day.
[00:36:15] Serena: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time and
[00:36:17] Erin: Thank you.
[00:36:18] Serena: Talk to you.
[00:36:18] Erin: This was great. Yeah. I'll have you online.
[00:36:21]