This is The Allusionist, in which I, Helen Zaltzman, regret trying to assemble language without looking at the instructions. So much has happened since we last convened Sad Stuff Out The Wave first. My father-in-law died. That really sucks. RIP, I'll beloved Santa Dave. In happier news, The Allusionist's live tour of the UK starts very, very soon. So come to see our joyous new show, Souvenirs. Stories never heard before on the podcast. Key words
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They can be multiple choice. They can be a format of growing devising. They just need to be about language. You can send them in voice form, or you can write them if you want to read them. And you have until the 6th of September 2024 to deliver them. Go to theillusionist.org slash quiz to do that. I'm excited to see what you come up with. And I wonder what I will score. This episode is all about queer slang in Arabic dialects. So content note,
there are references to sex and we do discuss some slurs and derogatory language. On with the show. The idea for Tech Weird was simmering for a few years until my friends got really bored with me talking about it all the time. And they like just do something. Just start somewhere, start somewhere. And eventually I set up the Instagram page really as a space to collect my thoughts. And somehow inadvertently ended up making an archive. But it was a desire
to collect, explore, research, celebrate an archive. Those instances that I share with my friends, queer friends in passing, it was the things that we would talk about, the references that we make, the jokes that we make, the certain stories from cinema or TV or pop culture that we're familiar with and where our queer identity seems to be anchored in. But there was never a space that was accessible that other people could also tap into and feel somehow a sense of belonging to the
swadder community. Hello everybody, my name is Marwan Kabur, I'm a Beirut-born, London-based designer, artist, founder of Tech Weird and the editor of the queer Arab glossary. In 2019, Marwan launched Takware on Instagram to document queer Arabic history, pop culture, memes and language. Potentially it was also a challenge to this kind of internationalized version of queerness where we are all expected to express our identity in a specific way or have specific
idols. Like I found people in my country like talking about Stonewall or something. And I was like that's wonderful. But we have our own moments, we have our own landmarks, we have our own pivotal moments that define our history as queer people. So I wanted to make that space so that others can easily access it so that our own interpretation of our queerness becomes verbalized.
And five years after launching Takware, Marwan's linguistic collecting has become a book, the Queer Arab Glossary, which contains more than 300 terms with English translations and some mythology and usage history. And there were also essays by queer Arab artists, academics, activists and writers adding personal context to the language use. The book was kind of born out of a personal curiosity and fascination with queer slang in the
Arabic language. Arabic exists in two main iterations. A standard Arabic, it's a formal type of Arabic that we learn in school and it is what is used to write speeches and essays and how news anchors speak, how the political leader might be giving a speech or your graduation ceremony or something. But none of us actually speak using standard Arabic. We speak using dialects. And dialect is a mix of
standard Arabic plus more localized influences. For example, me as a Lebanese person, I speak with a levantine dialect, which is infused with a lot of Turkish, arameic, French, like words that people use here that are different than those in different parts of the region. While in Iraq, it's infused by a lot of Kurdish and Farsi in North Africa, there's a lot of Amazine and French. So dialect varies
massively from one region to another. And the book concentrates on dialects and not standard Arabic, not the formal words, but the slang words. And it varies so much that sometimes it's difficult for us to understand each other. So what the book is, it's a glossary of 330 terms and words used in slang to refer to someone who is queer or perceived as queer and it's divided by the six main Arabic dialects that cover the entirety of the region. No biggie then. Not at all.
Peace of cake. Had a resource like this ever existed before. Not that I know of, there are historical books that mention the dirty words or the, you know, like the dirty slang of this region and some of which are connected to queer people. But there has never been a book that looks at this entire lexicon from the queer perspective. So how do you go about building a glossary when you have to do that
yourself from scratch? Yes, it's a good question. Like why would a graphic designer with a study job decide to open this kind of arms? My first idea was to create a visual mapping of this language, to kind of recreate the map of the Arabic speaking region using the words that I'm exploring. So I began by writing down the words I knew personally or came across and then I resorted to the pages followers themselves and I asked people, can you tell me of words in terms that you are
familiar with or that you have come across or use? The are used to refer to queer people or people who are perceived as queer in your language, in your dialect. And can you tell me who says these words and to whom are they normally used for? And then I would make sure that from each country I was speaking to people who are part of different socio-economic classes or part of different regions who are of different ages and who belong to the different parts of the queer spectrum.
And this is how I built the meanings of the words. The resources were the people because I don't think there's anyone better to tell you about what a word means in slang than the people who use it.
But my resources range from conversations on Instagram to like the Arab version of the Arab Indictionary called Majam to quite honestly I ended up on some porn websites quite a few times because a lot of these words are used in like a sexual context and I needed to know what they refer to and some interesting historical documents that reference some of these words. Marwan worked for four years on the glossary initially translating everything himself.
Later he worked with the translator Sunilu Mubai who helped add more linguistic and historical and socio-political information to the definitions. It was it's not necessarily a historical research I call it like a snapshot of the linguistic landscape around queerness today but by researching the words by trying to find the roots of some of the words I realized how far back some of them reach. One of the most commonly used words to describe an effeminate man or a gay person
in a derogatory way is a word that has existed as long as the Arabic language has. Mujenna for example there's a word in the golf dialect section specifically in Kuwait if I'm not mistaken called Safa'un and it's a word to endearingly describe someone who's a bit soft who is a bit
femme and out of the process of the book we found out that the word is a descendant of a word from like the Abbasid era of people whose job was to for the purposes of entertainment slap others in the royal courts they were they would slap so that's their job it was like kind of a BDSM entertainment thing and the word has survived and moved and transitioned in a way that now it refers to a queer person. I also thought it was really illuminating to see how different regions
had been colonized how that then presented itself in the language. When researching for this book I discovered so much of the socio-political cultural linguistic and historical layers that make up the word and by doing that you understand a lot more about the region. So the thing about this book okay it's called the queer-arbitlossary so you'd think if you're not queer and or Arab you might
not relate to it. The surprise is when you read the glossary and the essays it really teaches you about the history of the region because language holds in it all of the layers today in the present tense of all of the historical layers that have passed into this region meaning we look at a word like Bhutan and Libya which is basically an arbours version of Bhutan the Italian word. The Italian word
for sex worker. And so on like a lot of French words in North Africa a lot of Italian words in Egypt in Libya a lot of French words in the Levant region obviously and so on or we look at Tupsi in Lebanese dialect and it's a Turkish Ottoman word that has become out of use in Turkey but it's still in use in Lebanon who was under the Ottoman Empire and we still use this word to refer to a gay man in a drogatory way or to an effeminate person. Tupsi is made out of two parts
the suffix G and the first part which is top. In Levantine dialect the words with ending with G are very common so for example my mom if she wants to go to the grocer she would say I'm going to to the Khudarji. Khudra is vegetables. G. Khudarji means the grocer the person who works with vegetables Niswenji Niswen is women and we add the suffix G it becomes womanizer the person who
who I mean not works with women but like is is dealing with with women. So Tupsi top T.O.P is an old Turkish word that means cannon the bowl and cannon and at a certain point in Ottoman Turkey top was also a slang word for gay so top G or in Turkish top C became to refer to the person who is doing the gay so like a gay person. Just so weird this whole cannon balls thing. I know I know I was like is it about the cannon being a fallet or about the bowl
going into some kind of tunnel it was over interesting. That's that's how etymology gets us. I know by doing some weird stuff. Yeah yeah totally. It's a mostly drogatory term but it can be used in enduring way amongst members of the same community. Of course it's a great offense if someone says that to me randomly on the street like screams that to me but I would absolutely tell my gay friend Tupsi in an endearing way. So it's all about context. Most of the words in the glossary can operate
in two ways. I actually have like a column when I was working on this spreadsheet to differentiate between the rogatory and endearing terms only to find out that there was no way for me to make that distinction without knowing the full context of how a word is said. Who is saying the word to whom it is being said and what context is it being said what tone is being used when the word is being said and what geography and what time in history all of these things make up the meaning of the
word. Coming up some very lively metaphors but first a quick break do pay the bills. Thanks to Babel for sponsoring the illusionist and for making online language learning so fun and varied with lessons that use a lot of different ways to make the words and grammar that we're learning enter our heads and stick there thanks to the more than 200 language experts who craft Babel's
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Some of the metaphors in the glossary were also familiar from English language slang. I mean this is not surprising, modes of transport, lots of modes of transport, to reference someone who is very promiscuous, the town bicycle essentially but more colloquial variations of it. School bus was one pejorative term for a promiscuous bottom. Also quite an old
linguistic theme were terms for sex between women being related to rubbing. For instance in English, tri-bait or tri-badi was a 16th century term for a woman who had sex with women from the ancient Greek tree bane to rub. And that trope appears in the queer Arab glossary too. Yeah there's a lot of the words pertaining to queer women are like a cliche kind of the one that rubs the one that lakes. But at least some of the terms in the queer Arab glossary taken more creative metaphorical
approach to the theme. Korshela or Kordasha from Tunisia Amoroko has to do specifically with this tool that is used to turn wool into bowls of yarn. So yes it is about rubbing and it is about things that are coming in contact and friction with each other. Other interesting things I noticed were the metaphor of worms. It's one of the main metaphors that is common across all of the sections. So words along the lines of he has a worm up his butt, he has worms, he's wormy, the one with the
worms. I know. And the meaning I guess it varies we weren't able to hone it down into one one specific source but it's either the presence of a phallic like thing in a man's behind to imply that he's gay or he has something up his butt that is itching the only sex with a man will rectify or the more difficult meaning that implies that gay men are riddled with disease which is why they have worms. I mean it's all very macabre but like it's also what's there.
So the analogy of the worms was interesting? Yeah I mean not just worms there were a lot of other creatures like horse cow, pigeon, crocodile, mouse, mule. But they all have I think worms was a constant metaphor but the other animals refer to different things. So like you have the horse which could be like a virile man. The crocodile is an older man who's trying to hit on younger men
but it's a bit like cringy because crocodiles live to a very old age. Other things is the use of very cute animals to refer to twins or like a like a soft effeminate boy, like a butterfly or a puppy or a chick. There's the phrase has been licked by a cow to refer to someone who's like been coddled so that's why he's gay. There's the hyena in Syria to refer to a very insatiable gay man. There's the falcon in Sudan which refers to a lesbian woman. I love it because some of them
make sense like the crocodile makes sense because the crocodile is old but why a falcon? I love that a falcon is a lesbian. This isn't unique to Arabic but Marwan found far more terminology pertaining to queer men than to queer women. In the beginning I thought it might have to do with my own positionality as a gay man that maybe I don't have access to something beyond what I'm comfortable
with and maybe the people who follow me are similar. So I was like okay let's do an extra push to specifically have in the interview section or a portion of the research where I reached out specifically to queer women from the different regions to try and address that only to find out
that the words really weren't there and it was mainly because you know like society were like the queer community as a reflection of the wider community which in the Arabic language or in the Arab world but also internationally is yet to give women's sexualities, women's bodies and women's sex lives as much of a wide pool of lexicon as they do for men and whenever there were words they always brought back the queer women to a man so you're a tomboy you are like a man and variations of
it that you would spot in the glossary. So that was a that was a common thread which wasn't surprising at the end of the day we still live in highly patriarchal and misogynistic societies. One term that is used for women refers to the Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca. Ah al-Hajdaqar, al-Hajdaqar means who is an honorary title to someone who's done the Hajj but Hajj is also a way to say to refer respectfully to an older man not necessarily just someone who did the Hajj but
that's where it comes from. Daghd is like the al-Fah. So Hajjdaqar means like the Sir al-Fah and it is used for a woman who is masculine presenting like she kind of she supersedes gender and she becomes the al-Fah straight away. And it's just that most of the terms for men were ones referring to being a feminine or to being a bottom rather than for being a top or very mask. I mean not surprising again it is a reflection of the fact that one woman's sexuality is aren't
seen or perceived with the same degree of seriousness as men. So like if a woman chooses not to engage in heteronormative behavior she is automatically like the man and in the same misogynistic sentiment a man who engages in non-normative sexual activity he is deemed like a woman. These two observations come from the same fault that is embedded in misogyn. Again definitely not unique to Arabic that there was also a porosity of gender-free and gender-non-specific terms.
The existing tools don't work because even our plurals are gendered and when you want to to describe a group of people who are of mixed genders you default back to the masculine which I guess is the similar way how French language works as well. Yep Italian. Italian different groups across the region are making different efforts to try and make that happen or to try to innovate new language. It doesn't seem to be possible with the existing linguistic tools.
So I think they're trying but it's still in a period of exploration we haven't reached a solution just yet. I mean not as English really because people love to get pissed off about it. I know in all honesty I think it would help us a lot if we view this period as a period of transition and exploration where we are trying to push the boundaries of language to better accommodate specific things we aren't there yet and it's still in flux.
One recurring motif in the glossary is cultural references. For example one phrase used in Libya to mean gay men or masculated men is listens to K-pop. Oh yeah that's I would say potentially one of the laws to be added I mean obviously it's a very current reference and listens to K-pop is connected to a grouping of words that I have to do with Western culture.
So there's a Ulet Miki and Sudan which means the children of Miki Maus. There's Yusma K-pop which means listens to K-pop and it's out of this idea that and it doesn't apply exclusively to gay people but people who present themselves and who are into Western culture because the implication which is completely wrong is that queerness somehow is a Western
import. So if you're presenting yourself as someone who is into Miki Maus who is like the symbol of Western civilization or American civilization or K-pop which is this international phenomena you must be gay like because this has nothing to do with us this you you've imported this from others. With some of the cultural references Marwan had to provide quite a lot of
context and explanation like the number 106. That was a weird one for me because in the beginning with the submissions page a lot of Algerians were like 106 this is what we say and I was like what? And then I kept kind of digging to try and understand where it's coming from and basically there was a TV show in Algeria from the 70s like a show based on a detective trying to like solve crimes and apparently in one scene I think they're in a hospital the detective and he has his like
assistant and the assistant was dressed as a nurse to try and infiltrate the hospital and at some point the detective tells the nurse who is dressed as a woman to walk in a more feminine way so that people believe that he's an actual woman and he starts walking in a more feminine supposedly feminine
way and then when they reach the room he just starts screaming in a very like an exaggerated way the room number which was 106 it's like me yo sita me yo sita which is like a local way of saying 106 and suddenly 106 me yo sita and Algerian became a way to say gay because it was that character from that TV show who did it that way. There were quite a lot of food ones as well like yeah yeah
yeah yeah little grape the half and half coffee no snoss white bean. Ah Luba Luba is a very interesting actually so these are all Moroccan words the ones that you mentioned which makes me think there's a connection between food and the way people are being described so Luba which means beans or white beans is actually a very more contemporary word used amongst queer people to refer to themselves as a word of community and the source of the meaning is unknown but it is so commonly used
and it's loved it's like a sweet word while little grape is more like like a cute little boy little grape what was the third oh no snoss which is the way in the Moroccan region they refer to like half cream half coffee kind of thing and it refers to someone who is neither this nor that so maybe someone who is gender ambiguous. There's also grill rack for a versatile gay man who will flip over during sex. More food terms include can meaning someone who opens up like a can that
one's derogatory as is candy for a man considered soft and sweet as in a feminine. I thought he's fried was very evocative. That one was very weird for me because like I was like what do you mean he's fried? Yuckly okay this is Tunisian a lot of Tunisian cuisine it has to do with fried food so it's it's the the idea of frying is very much part of people's consciousness so yuckly means he fries or he is being fried and here the idea is that a gay man is getting fried in oil which
is a metaphor for penises so him frying is because he's swimming in a sea of of cock there's different versions there's the version yuckly which is just means he's getting fried and then there's the full version yuckly with the book which means he is getting fried in penis which
kind of refers to like more of someone who who's the bottom but then there's also a variation that claims that because you have to flip him around while he's frying that it might refer to a versatile gay man who flips over during sex so there's it's it's it's very multiplicity of very complex
meaning around frying gay men as a designer what got you into gathering language my father who is an artist himself and a former Arabic language teacher when I was young whenever I would inquire about word when I was younger he would reply with a full etymological
background of every word so that was my experience of language he was he was like oh this word came from this fruit and then you conjugate it in a way that becomes this so it was a game that we play and I found out during my practice that text language and typography became
very central to my design practice it's kind of lucky that your dad's enthusiasm for etymology didn't just make you go oh dad shut up and make you run far far away I never thought about it before this book I thought it was something that had died out but then it was my friends they're like no
it hasn't they're like you always do this to us so I just internalize that yeah that's very cute yeah ever the things you can inherit that seems very awesome I know like what what we call dad jokes I like I'm deemed the king of dad jokes because I always like whenever someone says
something I take the words and I like play with them around like like play dough and then come back with like a word play that I think is very witty and they just give me this slightly disappointed look on their face is like here he goes again oh I'm sure they appreciate it afterwards oh for sure
I have my consciousness here they could handle it is your dad still around yeah yeah his next door actually is he excited to have so much more language that you've gathered for him to add to his repertoire um yeah you know in all honesty this project is the moment where he finally has an
entry point into my practice and is able to understand what I do because for the I mean he's always been very supportive but like many dads or many parents they're like I'm not entirely sure what my child does but I'm happy for him uh-huh try being a podcasted I'm exactly so I'm currently in
Beirut and I came mainly to do my book launch here and I had my parents in the auditorium where we were having a panel discussion and I looked over and and he was smiling and looking very proud and I feel like it was really the moment where he's like okay now I know what you're doing and this is
very interesting so I think this this book has definitely played a part in bridging the the kind of the generational and cultural gap between us Marwan Kaboah is the designer of books including the Rihanna book he runs the online community Tukweer and he is the editor of the queer Arab
glossary out now in many territories and the US edition will be released this September all with amazing illustrations by Haitham Haddad thanks to Bombass for sponsoring the illusionist and for making such comfy and durable socks t-shirts and undies I'm always excited to see the
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i'd like to keep up with the news from the alumsianists because they do a lot of cool stuff rose everleth who appeared on the futurist now episode and used to make the podcast flash forward has a new podcast series out called tested about the history of sex testing in sports
there are all too many media organizations that i would not trust on this subject but rose is someone who we know will do a diligent smart job and they have spent more than 10 years researching this and getting the show made and elast it's out and very topical
i went into the illusionist patrons' discord to recommend it only to discover that several people already were recommending it and listening to it and talking about it and getting a lot out of it you can find tested in the pod places and that tested hyphen podcast dot com and i'd recommend a
visit to that website also because there are a lot of great resources posted there including language ones and the newsletter is really good as well so check all of that out at tested hyphen podcast dot com your randomly selected word from the dictionary today is
detritive or noun zoology an animal which feeds on dead organic matter especially plant detritus try using detritive or in an email for day this episode was produced by me helan zotsman the music is by martin austrik of pale bird music dot com our ad partner is multitude
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live show souvenirs and submit your quiz questions for episode 200 and as ever you can hear or read every episode get links to the guests and their work and more information about the topics they're talking about and you can see the full dictionary entries for the randomly selected words and you can donate to become a member of the illusion verse all at the shows forever home the illusionists dot