Today's show sponsored by Lear Capital, the precious metals leader since nineteen ninety seven and only company I trust and recommend to my family, friends and viewers. Visit leirlex dot com. He's editor in chief of Breitbart News and a New York Times best selling author, and on this podcast it brings deep research, prescient analysis at.
World class guests. He's Alex Marlowe and this is the Alex marlow Show. All right.
I've been looking forward to this for really months. Winton Hall is here. He is our social media director at Brightbart News and author of the book Code Read, which is out now and a top and a bunch of Amazon charts at the moment, the Left, the Right, China and the race to control AI.
We did a brief hit on the live radio show.
Which you may have come across on the podcast feed, but we're going to you today on the book, which is really a fantastic book. It is informative, but it's accessible. This is what you need to understand, and he lays it out very clearly. If you want to know not just the future but the present, this sets you up to understand what could be the story of the century, which is the adoption of widespread AI, which has went to mentioned on the radio show earlier this week. Ninety
nine percent of us are already using it. You cannot opt out. And we were at a major crossroads as a conservative movement because people, I think are rightfully freak the f out about AI. But there's a lot of opportunity and we need to embrace it in a lot of ways as well, because we cannot avoid it. And we're going to talk about everything that's in the book as least as much as we can we can get through, which might not be all of it, but there will
be a lot of it on today's podcast. But the first thing you got to do is you get to go right now and buy the book.
You need this book.
You got to get it because this is first of fall.
It's a good read.
If you like science fiction, if you ever read my books, you like my books, you'll absolutely like this book. But this is information that you need and is presented in a way that is accessible, you can get.
It is a it's a pleasure. It really is a pleasure. Winched.
I honestly felt like I would kind of people. We say this as a compliment, but it's it did feel like a novel in some ways. And then I did feel like I was immersed in a world I wasn't totally familiar with. It did feel like, you know, I found myself, you know, leaning over to my wife and talking about AI just like spontaneously while.
I was going through it. And that's that's a great sensation.
I know that the point of the book is the content, but congrats, I'm putting together the book. What was the process like for you, as being a seasoned ghost writer or someone who's written many books but you haven't put your name on one in a few years.
Well, my condolences to your wife for having to listen to I'm getting her prime.
She's in the cancer field.
She's in one of the fields that could really benefit from it.
So she's it's the my field. I don't know if we're going to benefit journalism. I mean, I don't know how we're gonna do, but her field, she could thrive.
Now, yeah, no, you're right. So I have.
I've done twenty seven books, seven New York Times bestsellers. I've been very, very blessed in my career to work with some of the biggest and you know, greatest minds. And people and celebrities and all that. I will tell you just real candidly. This book took me to places I've never been as a writer when you really start immersing yourself deep deep.
This is one of the most.
Black box concepts on planet Earth, super complex, and so the writer in me is always looking for that narrative story arc.
How can I tell this through a.
Story lens to really pull people into the experience and not make it some dry PowerPoint presentation. On the other hand, you want to make sure that you've got that granular accuracy because you know that those details really do matter. So you're right, you know it's I always love your books because you know you.
Have a huge amount of endnotes.
I think I have eighty pages of endnotes and fifty endnotes, and you know you're cut from that same journalistic cloth of let's get the facts right and the rest of it.
I think for me, I.
Gotta say something amusing to the audience because I invented this to you offline. But I think this is really it's really fun because Wyndon is if you can already tell a specially if you're watching and not listening. He is one of the most encouraging people at Bright Part. He's got that great personality where he really wants his friends to succeed. So Wyndon has always lavish praise on me for my books, but I always felt like it was because he.
Was my friend.
Well now I actually sort of believe him because this book, the way it was structured and written, it really would have been the exact sort of thing I would have tried to do with this subject matter. So now I actually believe you if you say you like my books, because I feel like now our books are similar.
I really do mean it, and you know I do. But we are dear friends.
I would say this that this book I approached as a missional and by that I mean I didn't want to write this book. I have a great life, you know, telling memoirs of celebrities and famous people's first person accounts.
I think this is as a ghostwriter, just so people a ghost they're trommling ghostwriter. Beyond working at Bright Part, rinning our social media, which is which is very impressive, but go ahead.
Yes, And so as a celebrity ghost writer, I love that. But I will tell you I feel like there is such an urgency here, particularly for the conservative movement. You were so right to flag that at the beginning of this discussion.
This is moving so fast, and.
Part of the power grab happens in that speed, because while things are blurring by, it's very easy to put down pillars and grab land masks on these topics and these policies. Everybody needs to understand something. If you forget everything else, just understand this AI is going to become, and it's starting to become the access upon which every policy area that the conservative movement has focused on for
the last half century is going to spend. I'm talking about everything from education, I'm talking about everything from jobs, economics, free market, capitalism, national security, certainly, religious freedom, faith, reason, censorship, scan and band technology. The whole playbook is getting rewritten in real time, and so what I wanted to do. Nobody had ever tried to wrap their arms around the whole of this in a chat GPT post chat GPT.
World, and it took me two years.
I've read so many AI books my head spend literally thousands of articles, peer review, journals, trade I'm an informational scavenger. That's part of my as a celebrity ghostwriter. I like to get every piece of information I can't absorb, that build up that title way behind the mental gate, and then unlatch and then try to tell a story in a hopefully elegant and artful way with a narrative arc. So I wanted to do that because I feel that as a movement conservative our folks a are not in
the rooms where the future is being built. Yes, there are a few libertarian and right leaning people in Silicon Valley, and there are a lot of courageous people write leaning in Silicon Valley, but we're not in those rooms. Eighty five percent of all donations flow to the Democratic side out of Silicon Valley. We know what they tried to
do with the Global Disinformation Index to Bright Partners. We know that they have tried to dlist, demonetize deep platform, and they even did it with the President of the United States. If they can do it, if they can muzzle the President of the United States with Google products on YouTube and Facebook, just imagine what they have planned for you and me once the toggle switch flips back from a Republican control to the other team.
And so I felt compelled to get this out right away.
And today you know what I want to go through in this conversation. Here, we've got a nice chunk of time to get through stuff, and we might make this a double podcast, so I haven't decided yet, so those of you are tuning in the beginning.
I might make one long one or two medium length ones.
But I want to go through I want to get people vocabulary so they can follow the conversation. I want to make sure that we're talking about big picture in terms of where things are going with AI where they already are. And I want to go through your things that we need to be cautious about. And then I want to go through things that people can be optimistic about, which fields are really going to benefit, and how things
could get better for Americans, particularly conservative Americans. But I also want to talk about some of the various sections you talk about in the book, how ais who used for warfare, how it's going to change romantic relationships, You get into all the sex spot stuff, which is just fascinating and horrifying at the same time. I want to talk about education cheating but also how it can be
used to help educate you. And then I want to talk about the singularity in the end, which is crazy where we're eventually going to just merge into a human robot hybrid, which is already in the works. I mean, Musk is trying it every day with his neuralink stuff, so he's already on that. And huge moral implications also the AI being used in religious settings, which you talk
about as well in the book. So I want to get through all this stuff, but let's start with sort of big picture when what do you think is the entry point for people in the audience are not voracious consumers of AI content and they're not living and dying with every new announcement from chat, TPT or nvideo or something like that. Is the well, where do you think is the entry point for your target audience?
Here?
Yes, I think most of us, even if we're not part of this, we know we need to be and either for ourselves or for our children.
And that's what that's what code read really is.
It's trying to say, whether you're just coming to this conversation or you are following it, you're able to get a glide path. Number one, whether you may not think you care about AI politics, but AI politics cares about you. This is going to touch every single part of our life. It already is number two. It is a general purpose technology a GPT. So when we hear chat GPT, that's
referring to generative pre trained transformer. A GPT in the societal sense is something like electricity or the combustion engine, or steam engine, or or any other kind of system wide change that is going to revolutionize the entire world. Sundar pinch Ey at Google says that it is more akin to fire, the invention of fire, And so when you think of something that seismic, you note's.
Going to touch everything. I think.
The other thing is you say you're already using AI, whether you realize it or not.
Ninety nine percent of us use AI.
Sixty four percent of us, though, don't realize when we're using AI, because it's baked into things like our weather apps or streaming platforms, or our GPS or a host of other algorithms. So you're already using it, you're going to And what we've got to do is understand what I like to call roses and land mines. The roses are the possibilities and the positives, and the land mines are obviously the danger and.
The threat factors.
So there's a lot of both and we've got to know which ones are which, and I try to lay that out very clearly in code red good.
Okay, So one of the things that is another entry point that things in important to people's I think we all get if you're on board that this is going to happen. I think a lot of people are on board with that we need to beat China. Okay, So that sounds very like we could all agree on this. I think that's sort of probably ninety percent of people in America. Grows the political stripes once you acknowledge that there is an AI arms race taking place, that we
need to beat China. So what do we mean by that? What does that look like? What is beating China? And where are we at in this regard as of now?
Yeah, so I say we've got to beat China without becoming China when none of us want to live in a CCP of techno authoritarian surveillance state. Let me explain why we need to beat them, and I will say that there's actually more bipartisan agreement once you see why and we talk about why beyond some of the obvious things.
The first reason is, whoever reaches a technological dominance in AI, whether it's US, for China is going to have supremacy in things like encryption code, hacking of missile systems, hacking of infrastructure, and all of cybersecurity, and that is going to be very very very hard to surmount whoever gets there first. Once we hit something called r SI recursive self improvement, which is a fancy way of saying it's very simple. We'll explain all the terms and I do
in the book. Recursive self improvement is AI that can correct its own mistakes, improve autonomously, and constantly scale up its improvement. And so once you do that, you're on a glide path rocket and you will quickly have dominance.
In whatever that area is.
In this case, it's that The other reason is real basic, which is economic flourishing and the growth curve. We know that the mag seven, the Magnificent seven, which are our big seven American tech companies, the ones that we all know, Meta and Google and so forth, they constitute a third of the S and P five hundred just those seven companies, so we know the economic power and then the flip side, just to show both sides. When China released Ye's AI
model Deep Seek, there are one model. It created in the largest single day market cap wipeout for Nvidia six hundred billion. That's a bee, so almost two third of a trillion dollars in one single day. So you can see this tug of war on the economic front, and you can see this tug of war as it relates to global tech supremacy that relates to defense. And that's why you're starting to see Democrats and Republicans saying no, yeah,
we really do have to be China. This is this is not just type marketing to get investor cash.
They're real implications.
Here, right.
Okay, So where are we at currently in terms of the because we just saw it. I mentioned this on the live show. I want this conversation mostly be evergreen. But there is a news item that I think in today's news that super Micro, which is this company that is just tnking right now because employees were smuggling in Vidia chips to China.
What do you.
China needs a lot of our stuff and we can theoretically stop them from getting some of it.
The Achilles heel of China are what are called graphics processing units. You may hear people call it GPUs, and in Vidia is the world global dominant leader in GPU production. We do have other American companies, but they are the leader because they are far and away the most advanced, and the big achilles Heel for China is that they need our in Vidia GPUs and they need the most
advanced ones they can get. Now, there's a big fight and has been for a while export chip control fight over should we be giving or allowing American companies like in Vidia to sell advanced chips to China. The answer is obviously no, not our most advanced at minimum.
And there's been a debate.
President Trump has had these export chip controls. There has been recently some discussion of one of their lower grade chips called an H two hundred in in giving an allowance for them to be able to do on that. But this whole concept is really important, and again left
and right sort of agree on this. In some regards about what are called choke points, there are only a few places in the supply chain or in the industry and artificial chillnes that you can almost like taking your garden hose and just squeezing the middle so that the water can't flow through. Those choke points allow us to maintain our lead and hopefully.
Accelerate our lead in that AI race.
And so this one is a really important one, cutting off access to these chips, and you're starting to see, as you said, you know, all these schemes and scams to try to smuggle chips in and so forth. The head of Deep Seek, which is China's powerhouse AI. He actually and I talk about this in Code Red. I actually quote him, he said in a little noticed publication mentioned that he said, you know, my problem is not money. I can raise his capital all day. Look, my problem
is access to the best chips. And that's the tell, right that they've got to have that semiconductors. Fancy your way of saying chips or GPUs AI chips. So that's the battle, and it's an important one, all right.
So I think that's a good There's some vocabulary I want people to understand before we get too far into this thing that is really I think important. So some of the things that come up, So l l ms, this is a big one.
Explain what l lms.
Are, great yes sansor large language model l l M.
And this is what you think of when you think of your.
AI chat pot right, So chat GPT rock Gemini, whatever one you'd like to use.
That's what an ll M.
Is, right, and so what are examples of this and how are they used in as.
So, an LLM is trained on a massive, massive data trove, and so you're talking about trillions of what are called tokens, which is about a three quarters of a word. So just to quickly show you, so if you and I read from birth to death without stopping, assuming the average rate of speed of of a reader and life expectancy of a human.
We would read about eight billion.
Words, okay, average rate of speed and how many years the average person lives in one month. An enterprise LLLM large language model CHAT an AI chatbot will be trained on eight trillion that's with a t tokens three quarters of words, So it's not exactly, but it's roughly that you can see that in balance, And that's how how massive the data sets that an LLM is trained on. And so no human it would take us forever and beyond for one an anyone person, certainly.
Outside of their life expectancy.
So that's how they're trained. This is all racing toward another acronym called AGI, which stands for Artificial General intelligence, and this is a theoretical construct. It has not yet been achieved, in some question if it could, but the major AI companies are racing toward AGI. Artificial general intelligence is the point at which an AI can do at equal level or slightly better any cognitive task than a human can do.
The one up above that is something called.
A SI, which stands for artificial super intelligence. And this is this would be the theoretical point at which an AI is far in a way beyond anything that a human mind could ever achieve or even imagine. So that's when a lot of the discussion about danger and you know, sort of apocalyptic type of discussions come in.
Right exactly, So this is the age.
This is where we're getting to the point where the machines are just building better and better machines on their own. So the machine learning is just so intense and powerful that the humans are just aren't even necessary to the equation. And I think that's where all the sci fi scenarios play out. And I definitely want to get there later in the conversation.
Because the book is you write that it's a political.
Book about AI rather than a AI book about politics. So you start from the premise of that this is designed to kind of map out a political battlefield. What do people need to know about where we're at on this? Because I been talking to the audience, I spent a couple of days in Silicon Valley earlier this week, and I got to be in the room with some of the most important CEOs in this space. Briefly, almost all the off records. It's not too much I can report, but I can tell you this that there is a
openness to working with the Trump administration on this. And I don't think everyone you would think. I don't think you can narrowly cast the way we could in past iteration into the Silicon Valley as everyone is a left winger anthropic, They're gone. I mean, they're completely left wing, far left. Google, I still think the most evil company in the world, even though they've shown some willingness to work with Trump on some stuff. And I'm trying to
do some reporting on that for the audience. But there's some other players in the space that are not knee jerk anti Trump necessarily and are definitely willing to play ball. Now, you guys, remember the last time Ema Joe was here, we talked only about parenting.
I think it's the highest.
Calling for any adult human being individual, and it starts with recognizing that as that life grows inside of you, if you're a woman, no men give birth, it's just a fact. Then that is a human life with rights and a right to exist. And one of the organizations that I think does the best job in the world
making that case is Preborn. Preborn offers ultrasound services and heartbeat monitors to expected mothers who may be debating whether or not to terminate the life that grows inside of them, or whether or not to give that baby a chance at a full natural life as God intended. They're an incredible group and I really value their partnership so much.
On the show they provide those ultrasounds. They each one's like twenty eight bucks, So twenty eight bucks a month can save a baby a month, two hundred and eighty dollars you can save ken babies.
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Fifteen thousand dollars amazing tax deduction as well. Fifteen thousand dollars you buy a whole ultrasound machine, save babies for I don't know, all year long for a while. It is an amazing group, a group that I'm proud that I corded to the show because I believe in them that much. Preborn dot com slash Marlow or a three zero eight three three eight five zero baby A three three eight five zero two two two nine. Or you go to Alex Marlow dot com. You click the preborn banner.
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Yeah, it's Silicon Valley's culture is very interesting. So eighty five percent of all donations do flow to Democrats. You just brought up Anthropic. Since twenty twenty, Anthropic and it's in employee network have have donated two hundred million.
Dollars to Democrats. Here's the reality though.
Okay, they're also very pragmatic, and they have to be because of regulation. So if you and I want to make an AI data center, these are you know, twenty five football field sized campuses with enormous regulatory overlays. I've got to get Energy Department of Regulatory approvals. It's a national security threat potentially because enemy like a like in a warfare would attack these data centers to take out communication.
There is no way that a massive enterprise level you know, AI company in America can do business and be completely at war with the administration over it.
So Trump, at.
Least for the rest of his second term, they're willing to you know, play along, you know, sort of go along to get along if they have to, but make a mistake about their default setting. As you said, some of these key players, I think they are right now willing to work with because they know.
They have to.
I also think they do have a genuine concern about a fusion between left and right populism starting to come together on some of these issues. And you know, the final thing, in a very serious way that I think all of us nobody wants to see is real social chaos and disruption. You know, we've already seen sort of the Luigi Mangioni phenomena where people become unhinged and take horrific actions and so forth. And I think there is
some degree of a real fear of social unrest. There are a lot of AI industry folks who are very concerned that if they get blame for massive job loss or if that kind of thing comes to pass, the social unrest piece will be there too. So I think they are some of them, the more reasonable ones, able to sit down. But I don't think we should in
any way be fooled. Right the pendulum swings, And so what I say in Code Redd is that if tour, if you believe that AI is like fire and it can either burn down a civilization or be used to heat a hungry personal a meal and warm them, then the torch bearers who holds that fire is going to matter enormously and we should expect massive political pendulum swings.
I mean, just look at how different the tone shift was right before the election and right after Kamala Harris lost and all of the heads of the AI industry and the big tech leaders they showed up. They gave their million dollar donation to the inaugural fund, they showed up at the inauguration that was They quickly realized, boy, we've got to get ourselves in line, even though US and all of our friends have been completely trying to
get Kamala elected. So they're pragmatists, they're business people, but make no mistake if and when that pendulum swings, there is going to be a hard swing back to the left.
Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah, so we got to keep an eye on this politically. But I feel like some of these guys are I
don't think they like woke. And it does seem like when did you track this later in the book, that it seems like there's somewhat of a faith revival happening in Silicon Valley, And I think this is really the pendulum swinging back from a lot of people acting like we were heading towards an era of AI gods that will all be worshiping a lot of there's seemed to be an embrace of Jesus happening in some corners.
It's really a hopeful thing.
And you know, people of faith, I grew up in the evangelical community of my whole life. You know, this is a part that I think is very hopeful. And not to overstate it, but I really tried to show the positives about AI and the hopeful parts of AI and code read, not just all of the potential threats or doom or any of that kind of thing, and one of them.
Is this issue of faith. Look, I think that as.
People enter this AI space, and as you start to realize what really makes us human in all our messiness, all our frailties and all our sinfulness, as all of our you know, wackiness as humans, you start to actually have a greater desire to want to hold onto that and to.
Really build community with people.
And so, you know, the more the machine starts to take the lead role and AI, I think people are actually going to say, you know.
What, we want to have community.
We want to be able to have you know, fellowship with our fellow man and woman. And I think that extends into you know, church and faith. And so you have seen in certain pockets in Silicon Valley this sort of revival type of fervor there, and I think it's searching for something deeper.
You know, if you believe that there is.
That crisis of meaning coming that I talk about, we're going to want to really reach out to people and you know, help people who are really struggling with that identity crisis because I think it's important.
Yeah, And so part of my what I was doing earlier this week is I was a falling around the Commerce Secretary Howard Utnek, when he's doing a lot of meetings and speeches, and one thing that came up a lot that he was talking about the importance of exporting America's not just America's products and manufacturing, which is I think a big opportunity because I think a lot of this manufacturing, with some of this high tech stuff, is going to be better done here and not done overseas,
I think for security reasons, but also for practical reasons. Things are moving so fast. I think the idea of having stuff in house. I noticed a lot of the places we were visiting were just literally the high tech companies, but they're manufacturing right there next to the right by the offices where people are scrolling away at you know,
Excel sheets like they're also there. The engineers are right there too, So I think there's a practical nature that could be you know, a maga in terms of American jobs. But he also talked about exporting American values. We need to have democracy as part of this, and that's part of the reason why we need to win, is because we don't want whatever is the Chinese communist version of AI to be the one that proliferates around the world world.
But that sounds easier said than done in an ethereal sense. The idea of exporting American democracy via AI sounds good, but.
That sounds really hard. Have you given this a lot of thought? Windim, Oh, yeah, for sure.
So in the China chapter, just compare American AI responses to questions like tell me about the Tenemen Square massacre, right, and the free speech and that our systems will allow and they are instantly shut down in a Chinese you know system, and so that.
You know, free speech is one.
Certainly, freedom of religion and religious freedom as well. Where I get concerned is with the whole discussion as it relates to the bias. Because the opening chapter is on political bias. We had a big story, as you know on Breitbart that just went crazy.
Uh.
Three United States Senators Senator Cotton, Senator Blackburn, Rick Scott weighing in. One of the code read revelation bombshells was that I was looking and doing a comprehensive analysis of these different chatbots, and one of them google Gemini, their deep search, their deep research protocol, and I simply asked it assess the current one hundred senators in the US Senate and tell me which ones have violated your.
Hate speech policies.
And what was amazing and horrifying was you'll be shocked to know that seven US senators are in violation of Google's Gemini's hate speech policy. Not a single one of them are democrat. All of them are Republican. And then on top of the bias, it also hallucinated because it thought that JD.
Vance and Marco Rubio.
Are also They thought it's thought still a senator, not the Secretary of State and the vice president, and threw them in for an additional two more So, you had you know, Tommy Toourville Cotton, you had Marsha Blackburn, you had Haggarty, you had Scott, you had Heide Smith Hawley, and then and then for good measure, you had JD. Vance and Marco Rubio. And this is just insanity. You have every right as a company to make a biased product.
You can be as woke as you want. Free market I think we're all you know, free market capitalists you know, would say, fine, that's your right, as long as you're not breaking any lulls, okay, But when you start getting federal procurements to the two otherwise known as taxpayer dollars contracts to the tune of billions of dollars in multi year contracts which Google their parent company Alphabet does receive.
That is a direct violation of President Trump's twenty twenty five AI Action Plan, which says we should not have ideologically biased a AI systems receiving federal tax procurement dollars otherwise known as contracts.
And that's the reality.
So here now you've got Google laughing its head off, right, they're able to completely smear half of the nation and break bard nation and everybody in the conservative moment and literally sitting US senators and laugh all the way to the bank. Because then then they're bagging, you know, billion dollars in contracts, and that that is that's that shouldn't be that way, And I think we have to make sure that it's not that way, because that is just
a basic fundamental fairness. Why should we have to subsidize people who are literally trashing and making it up.
I think it's also more dangerous though.
I think it's a full scale candidate attack generator, and it can have real election implications when you have these systems that are perceived to be authoritative and voters are turning to them and saying who who is violating hate speech policies, and it's and it's giving this you know this information very very biased.
Yeah, exactly.
And so one of the deep concerns that we all should have is the garbage in garbage out phenomenon, which is that where are these llms where they're getting the language that they're using for their AI Because one of the biggest problems that we've had in recent memory is been Google is monopoly on search and they are very left bias. Wikipedia has a monopoly and on just sort
of getting general information out into the public. They work with Google on stuff, they work with Facebook on stuff, and it's very hard to correct falsehoods that are with anything remotely political. So the question is how do we avert this again as we move we have a real chance here, we have a real chance at a major reset where we can kind of undo some of the dependents on left wing Google and Wikipedia information for just
general knowledge. But we got to move now, We've got to act now because this is being embraced at a widespread level today.
Well that's why I call it a code red moment. With the urgency is there, we've got to get coached up we have to understand this. You nailed it all right, So let's let's take our example that we broke the big this code read bombshell on the seven senators and Marco. So I then went through Google geminized deep research.
I understand this wasn't just like one little prompt.
It gave three thousand, four hundred word granular report, deep report explaining why these are all hate mongers and they are violators. Then I went through what's called chain of reasoning, which is looking at the AI, how it connected its data points and what source material it used. Guess what source material it used to determine that only Republicans or
hate speech violators in the Senate and zero democrats. I went through the chain of reasoning and here's what it was using Human Rights Watch yeh GLAD GLAAD and the Southern Poverty Law Center SPLC and Wikipedia.
So it appoints leftist referees.
To determine what hate speech is and then it prosecutes without you know, with with impunity the rest of it. And so these systems are baked in at the at the at.
The training level. So what are the solutions.
Well, I think one is understanding what I'm saying, knowing how they're trained. The whole first chapter of code read I literally lay out so you understand how this all works, not in a you know, nuts and molts, but really understand the concept. Second, there are a couple of things that are being worked on as a you know, alternative Grockipedia instead of Wikipedia. Wikipedia, as you know, is extreme left.
They lock conservative pages, as they've done to Breitbart in others, so that their leftist editors get to control the information and can't challenge anything. And so those kind of competitors do exist, But the real challenge is going to be how you can beat at scale a company like a you know, Google, that has every single data data profile on the planet, has an endless ocean of cash for marketing and advertising scale budget, and anytime a little competitor comes.
Along can instantly try to cross someone. I'm not saying it can't happen.
There is the third thing I think can be a part of the solution is something called little tech, not big tech.
Little tech. What's little tech?
Little tech is the startup community. And these young entrepreneurs, these are startup entrepreneurs. You might say, wow, how could you ever compete against these behemoths and something is cost intensive as AI, well you'd be surprised. The most recent example, which is an incredible one, is this thing called open claw, and open claw is revolutionary. Jensen Wong, the head of Nvidia, literally just a couple of days ago, said he thinks it is one of the most important technological advancements of
his lifetime. Open Claw is a gentic AI real simple.
And Jenny A, I definitely one of my vocabulary words I want people to understand.
So give that before you continue.
Yes, agentic AI or AI agent is taken from the word agency, as in you have efficacy or ability to do something, You have agency in the world, power to do something in the world.
And so an AI agent is AI that actually performs work, right, not just a little chap. A lot of people think, oh.
AI is just a chat, but that's actually not even really the biggest parts of AI by any stretch. I tell, let me give you an example that I use in code.
Read.
So imagine you and I want to start a sports supplement company for fitness supplements.
Okay, an agent.
By the way, we do.
I love the gym, and I know you're as well an athlete, so so I think what we would do is we would tell the AI agent. We would say something like this, you say.
Create a you know, creatine or protein powder company, end to end, and what it would start to do is the following. It would register the LLC, it would come up with a brand name, it would start to design the logo.
It would then go build the website.
It would open up a banking account, it would start a supply chain into end for drop shipping. It would figure out how Shopify credit card processing should be maked in, and it will do that automatically.
So an agent or agentic AI, just think of it like this.
It's a digital employee and one that never sleeps, doesn't complain, doesn't require a health and benefits package, and we'll never call some kind of embarrassing scandal or something, and we'll never get sick.
And that agentic AI.
That is why you hear these job apocalypse types of predictions. So Openclaw was started by one person and what he did was he built that agentic AI agent, and he connected it to things like Telegram or slack messenger.
And all you have to.
Do is pick up your phone or type if you'd like, and tell your digital employee or AI agent what you want done, and then you can go play golf or go you know, garden, or go to the gym, or go to bed, and you wake up and that agent is doing that work in real time.
And so you're saying, we just got to get the digit, the virtual of the visual avatar going and then all of those Zoom calls we all have to be on where we just sit there for two hours and then say nothing on my end at the very end, like we can.
Just have just have our AI do that.
That sounds great, Well, you know you're making a joke. Guess what the head of Zoom that owns Zoom said, that's literally what he wants. He wants you to have AI avatars take the meetings and that they're going to work towards that.
The other thing about AI agents of why people are making these very bold predictions, and these are people that are very rich and very connected.
You can scale a h and tick AI workforce workforce to.
Thousands of digital employees, and so what people are doing right now, this is already happening. This is not like some sci fi thing in the future. This is going on right now. This is why I open Claw, which just bought by Open Eye, is a very, very big play. They're saying, Okay, I'm going to create an AI agent that is an expert in search engine optimization SEO.
I'm going to make one that's a marketer. I'm going to make one an advertiser AI agent.
I'm going to have one that understands chief technology officer or operations. And I'm going to have my own little team or large team if you want, of agents, and they're working twenty four to seven and doing all of this work. And these are called agent swarms, like a
bee swarm. Agent swarms that are doing all of this. Now, on the upside, if you're a young entrepreneur and you got fire in the belly and a big dream and you don't have a lot of capital, boy, or you on a rocket ship, if you start to take agentic AI, because now that little kid who has a big.
Dream, or a person who retired and says, man, I've always wanted to live my entrepreneurial.
Dream, they have an incredible power that they have in this superpower that they've never had before. On the other hand, if you're a mid level you know, career professional or trying to go into the traditional workforce at an entry level. This is why we hear Dario Amide say that in the next twelve months Alex, not in the twelve years, twelve months from.
Just last month.
He says, we're going to see potentially the erosion of fifty percent of entry level white color jobs. Now why is he saying that it's agentic AI? He's talking about AI agents that can do that beginning level, non pro level, expert level that requires a lot of human judgment.
And this is scary. A if you're a parent and.
You've got a kid coming out of college with one hundred and fifty grand in debt or more or less, you know roughly what fifty percent job wipe out for entry level two?
What's going to be in the next generation.
How are we going to get experts and senior management If if they can't get the first rung of the ladder, how are they going to aggress?
So this is where and this is what I've had personal experience with this, and I've shared this on the show, but I don't think recently. So the my of my books, so my second book, Breaking Biden, I'm kind of doing presidential history.
So it takes a lot of research.
So I think I had four, maybe five researchers on that book, all people that I met through Peter and Gai and great work they do, and so it was all part time. Wasn't full time people, but there was quite a bit of work. All them had real work to do to get the book done. And for breaking the law, I had one researcher. So the reason why is because a lot of the easy questions that normally I would have to get to a junior researcher who would then spend a couple of days on it and
then get back a summary to me. I would get a pretty decent facsimile of what I needed from AI already. And this is you know, we're talking two years ago, and just so we're way better now than it would be now. If I did the same task now, I would get better results in a less amount of time. And so that just meant that I only needed one sort of senior level researcher as opposed to a senior level and then like five junior level. But how does
the senior level researcher exist. He's not going to exist because they'll never have been a junior level one to work up to becoming a senior level researcher who actually does do the human tasts that I need to sort of hone down what I needed. And that's a very scary prospect in the white collar job market, is the entry level jobs are going to be the ones that are they're already going. I'm not saying they're gonna go, they're going now they're leaving.
Yeah, it's a hollowing out effect. I mean, you had great mentors. I had great mentors. In fact, I was on with Larry Elder, one of your mentors. Obviously you had the ultimate mentor and Andrew our founder Brake part. But it's really scary when you think about that, I mean, how.
Do you learn? How do young people learn? We have to have.
Older experienced people who will teach us and show us and help to learn. And we stand on the giants of the people that came before us, and we hope to learn that this entry level lower rung of the of the career ladder, once you saw off the first or second rung of that, that does have a hollowing out of fact. Now you know, I guess you could make the argument that that young person is going to have to turn to AI to become their mentor, right.
They're gonna have to They're gonna have to be self taught. And one of the things that I really stress to people is, I think the future of jobs is not learning how to apply to jobs, but to how to create your own job. I think, if we're going to have any motes here for this next generation, if you've got kids.
In middle school, high school, even college.
Now, you know, if you're a freshman in college in a four year maturation span, I mean, it's going to be light years different.
Just think of what has happened in the world already.
Chatch ept came in November of twenty twenty two. I mean, this isn't like it's been with us for a long long time. And so this is moving so fast, and you've got to get your foot in the stream, because again, you don't get to opt out of this thing. You know, it's not a choice. You're already using AI, whether you realize it or not. And I think we have to really understand it both on the personal level, which is what we're.
Talking about for our kids and our families and our careers, and then obviously on the societal and political level as well.
But this is why they're saying that. I'll give you another one. Mustafa Sulima on Microsoft's AI CEO, and he says twelve to eighteen months until all white color tasks can be automated. Now, just to be clear, that isn't he's not saying that all jobs will be gone in twelve to eighteen months. What he's saying is the tasks that white collar professionals do will have the ability to be automated. Now, will they take a while for businesses to implement that and to you know, train models to do it to.
Their customized data.
Yes, But once that train starts rolling, what happens Investors say, well, our competitors are doing it, and we better start doing it, and we start cutting costs, and then you get in a race to the bottom on cost cutting and so so this can start to accelerate very very quickly, and you get a vertical you know, take off and and and start to get to you know, break you know, hypervelocity speeds. And I think that's going to be where we're going to have to really see whether or not
these these points come true. The other final thing I'll just say on this you know President Trump and Vice President Vance, they don't want that. They are a pro worker, Okay, they are pro American worker.
What happens in the future if and when a.
Democratic president that wants a dependency state, that wants you be I, that wants to expand welfare. Uh and and to make that sort of the default great reset economically and thinks of you BI is a good thing because it's towards socialism. So again, the pendulum swings are gonna get wild in this era.
Yeah it is.
And let's take on UBI next and where things could go if the job market is wiped out by AI, which is already already seeing evidence that this is starting to take place. But the last sort of just establishing detailed I think people should get Winton and then then then we'll take a little break and come.
Back to some UBI stuff.
The understanding open source AI versus a closed system AI.
Most of the AI that we I.
Think used today is from closed systems, but China's top AI model is open.
We've got some.
Developing open system I know this company called Reflection, which I think is somewhat affiliated with the President, I think has got some is rooting for it. They just cut a big deal with the big South Korean marketing, the South Korean retailer conglomerate. So there's some open models that are out there, but overall we're more dependent on some of the closed models give me some strengths and weaknesses, and we're trying to fits into this too.
So it's a great question.
So historically Silicon Valley, one of the its claims to fame has been open source is what allows the proliferation real simple for those that may not be is from an open source just simply means that your code is available to be customized and taken for within you know, within the parameters that it's built to be used by others so that you can build on top of code. And that has been sort of a heartbeat of Silicon
Valley is open source philosophy and availability. Now with AI, there are what are called open weight, which is which is different. This is the weight is the amount of connectivity between the nodes inside of a neural network. There are some open weight models and Lama for example, which is owned by Meta, but the full open source that we traditionally would think by a American companies has really not come into the four yet there's a big debate about that. Why is there a debate? Well, because of
the security risks. I mean, once you give something as powerful as AI and you allow anyone the democratization of it, anyone to start building and you kind of lose control of what.
They decide to do with it.
The question he coms, could they use that toward evil ends like a nonstate actor otherwise know as a terrorist organization and say, Okay, now I'm going to use this open source and I'm going to customize it for chemical weapon creation or you know, bio attacks and so forth and so on or other kind of uh nefarious use all but Deep seek and China, they ironically are going open source.
China's biggest AI is that we call that LLLM.
Is that what? Yes?
Yes, that is an LLM.
Okay and Angelia, it's open source and this is China's China's biggest prized AI.
Now why do they want that? It is a massive data vacuum. Inside the terms of service which I talk about, and I go through all this in real clear detail inside of the China chapter in code read, they literally say two things that should horrify all people watching this.
In all Americans number one.
They say, oh yeah, By the way, all of your data that you give us will be.
Stored in servers in China.
Now, all companies, all citizens of China are under a law that you must comply and hand over material if it is deemed.
Necessary by the CCP.
Okay, the second thing will it tells you is that it will even pick up your keystroke rhythm.
Now, you might say, well, why do would I care how.
I type on my phone when I'm texting or I'm asking my chatbot what I want.
Experts will tell tell you that your keystroke rhythm.
Is more particular and as particular as your human fingerprint as an identification.
That means that you won't need to.
Know someone tacking their password if you have back end access, a backdoor access to that LLM by the CCP, they don't even need to know your username. They already know that that typing rhythm connects to know Alex Marlow, who he is, what his position is, and so forth, and you can follow them around if they are on your platform. So the irony of ironies silicon value is made on open source deep Sik says wait a minute, and China says,
wait a minute. We can spread our AI to be not only used more dominantly and get more economic benefit, we can also get a two fer. We can get a data vacuum to suck up and do data profiles and surveill whoever uses this technology. This is why we're in this code red moment because so much is changing so fast, and if you don't don't know these things, you may unwittingly think you're just using a free model of something, and you actually are really really at risk for data and privacy.
All right, a brief break here with when we come back, we're going to get int the UBI, We're to get into sex spots, We're getting the singularity.
There's a ton more to do.
I don't know they were going to get all in on this podcast, but we're going to keep going. But let's hear from some sponsors. Give Winton a chance to catch a breather. All that good stuff will be right back with Winden Hall.
The book is Code Read go buy it right now.
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of Premise Bank member FDIC. Okay Wintin, So I want to talk about the devastation potential for jobs due to AI. We were told for years to learn to code. Now no one's going to be coding. The AI is going to be coding for us. And just the idea of just writing granular character by character code is just that's going to be gone.
It's just all going to be stuff that AI going to fuel all that.
So everything we've been told about where we would be at economically in terms of just the general jobs market, throw all that out.
So where does that leave us?
And I want to talk about in super macro, But then I want to talk about some careers that you feel like could benefit from AI and something that you feel like really it's the you got to start thinking about pivoting if you're in this line of work as of now.
But let's start in general.
The biggest fear is that we're going to see extreme levels of job loss. It'll be an epidemic level event.
Yeah, this is so important.
I go into great depth explaining this, you know, frame by frame. So remember a few years ago when the snooty set in Silicon Valley, when all the coal miners started losing their jobs, started saying, you know, learn the code, right, remember that, and you know all of the to the HVAC and the electricians. Now the electricians and the HVAC guys and the coal miners said, you know, learn to plumb or learn to do electricity. It is a role reversal coming and let's really get into it and understand
it from all the different angles. Number One, what are people saying? Number One, Elon.
Musk says that AI is a quote.
Supersonic tsunami headed toward humanity. Number two, Dario Amide at Anthropics says that in the next twelve months, we're looking at fifty percent job replacement of those white collar workers we were talking.
About that entry level.
Also again the Microsoft Suliman twelve to eighteen months.
Now.
One thing people sometimes say is look, Winton, I mean, I'm a free market capitalist person saying, yes, the market will work it out. You know, it always replaces the jobs. It makes new jobs to replace those that were lost. We saw that with you know, light bulbs, after candles.
We saw that with cars after you know, horse and buggy.
Here's why AI is different and why the technologists say that this could be the first time, and it would be the first time that technology destroyed more jobs than it created because those early jobs you were talking about scaling the moving of atoms in other words, manual labor, physical labor, and things of that sort. Now what you're
talking about is scaling cognition itself. And so Mostafa Suliman says, yes, there will be new jobs created by AI, but it is not at all clear that they will be done by humans. Those two could potentially be done by AI. So the question becomes, what are we looking at and how fast is it going to move? I think there are three pressure points. One is the federal regulatory schema.
President Trump is very much a pro worker, you know, make America great again, pro worker president, and he doesn't want to accelerate or hasten the job destruction.
He's certainly not trying to transition us.
Toward a host labor or host capitalist economy or a great global reset economically, but others could. And so the question people have is how far is if there's a supersonic tsunami off the shore.
I'm a Florida boy, so I go to the beach all the time. And I know you're a California boy, so you like the water too.
You know, if we see a tsunami, the first thing we would say is how far is it?
How fast is it going to get here? And what should I do to prepare?
So the things that could slow that tsunami, if you believe it's coming, are the things that a president and that leadership can do. Number Two, there are going to be accelerators, like we discussed the agentic piece, and new technological innovations are going to accelerate that. And I think it will only accelerate that. The worst version of AI is the one you used today. And you know we were on iPhone seventeen. I mean I remember like a dinosaur to get iPhone one, so that it's going to
be an exponential increase. The third thing I would say is that yes, the jobs you choose certainly can have an enormous impact. And there I think the motes are clear, right. I think Republicans and conservatives have long said, you know, blue collar work is honorable good work and.
The trades trade schools.
Look, not everybody's you know, supposed to go and be you know, a PhD.
And we know that you know, Charlie and many others.
In fact, Peter Thiel pays now a grant for kids not to go to college and go.
Straight into entrepreneurship. So I think that's going to really be the future.
As we were talking about, I think it's created. The future is creating your job, not just learning how to you know, apply to be a worker bee. And I think that for younger people and people that are really creative will have a real passion, this is going to be your moment. Well, I'll tell you we're going to see more millionaires minted at younger and younger ages than we've ever seen before. So that is the hopeful side.
I think the other thing too, as it relates to that, is there is a Sam Altman has a private betting pool. This is this is by his own admission, they have a private little bet going among his billionaire cottery of you know AI genius guys, and their bet is who will become how fast will we see a one person billion dollar valuation corporation.
Because of AI?
Because again, you can build out a digital workforce with agents and so forth. So there's so much to consider, and I think that you know, people that are sort of head into a retirement, they go, look, I'll be able to ride the wave out with my network effects and you know, my connections, and I'll be able to do that for a while. But it's really it's really for their kids and grandkids that are really worried about.
And that's why in code Red, I really try to explain all of this so that you understand how the fault lines are going to move, so that you can navigate through them.
Very interesting, and so I want to talk about some of the predictions Bill Gates predicts sort of we're heading towards a two or three day work week. It's a we're going to have a real crisis of purpose here when and if that's the case in people's lives, because if the AI does stuff, then it's are we just going to do abundance and leisure or are we going to do reels? Are we just going to do doom scrolling because we're addicted to our smartphones and not actually
do stuff that's productive. And so I'm starting to wonder about this, So talk to me about what do you feel like our best worst case scenarios for the age of AI where a lot of our tasks that we do for work are just going to be automized.
So I think.
Before we talk about that, there's one important point that I think conservatives need to settle on, and I really just try to show this information President Trump.
In the AI.
Cizar for the Trump Administration, David Sachs, they are very very strong that they believe all of this doom and fear around on AI apocalypse and an AI jobs quake, and all of this is being fomented by something.
Called the Effective Altruist Movement, the EA movement.
This is a very very vast, well funded philosophical, philanthropic group. They are very much on the left side politically.
These are billionaires.
Sam Bankman Freed was one of the sort of figureheads of this. Dustin Moskovitz, the co founder of Facebook, who has given hundreds of millions of dollars to democratic and left wing causes, is part of this. And they have this hydra headed you know, industrial complex is the way that David Sachs likes to present it, and he says all of these nonprofits. Their whole goal is to scare the be Jesus out of everyday people that AI is coming to get you.
But have no fear.
A regulatory state could be here if we will give up to something called AI global governance.
And what would that be.
This would be to give decision making control to supranational organizations like the World Economic Forum, like the WEF like groups and the United Nations and others who would control the censorship DEI overlay to make sure that those hate mongers that Breitbart are not using free speech to control GPU and access to compute, meaning the actual infrastructure that
would allow for AI. So David Sachs says this and this is a direct quote, and I lay all this out in code read so you can sort of make up.
Your own mind. He says, if you fall for all that, and.
He says many Republicans will, he says, you're falling for a quote influence operation by far left forces, this effective altruist movement he's referring to. Now, are there people in that movement who are just genuinely, you know, safety minded and they're very concerned. Absolutely, And there is some good research that has come from the quote AI safety research, you know, ecosystem. However, he's making the point that this
is actually a control game that's being played. And so this is why I wrote code Read, because how are we supposed to know about all these things when we're busy living our lives. And I want to really let conservatives see the pieces on the chess board, because we're about to see the most unbelievable disruption that we've ever seen. And when people say you know that we're going to have the next industrial revolution, that's President Trump saying that
in his AI action plan. That is not some kind of hype marketing person.
In an AI lab.
So a lot is about to change and we just got to be ready for it.
Yeah, I really is so okay. So a couple other places I want to go with the conversation. I want to talk about some places where I'm concerned, in some places where I'm optimistic. And let's take some of the area of concern, and let's talk about sex spots, because we're seeing AI companionship at a already. This is emerging. And you share some anecdotes I found to be pretty frightening.
I tease one of them on the radio show. A woman who has a couple of children, a single woman her mid to late thirties, and she just says, flat out, my AI boyfriend is better than a real boyfriend. And I think about this in particular. My fear is for both sexes. For men obviously, because we're doing everything to arrest men's development. Everything the entire way we've structured society has made it so that it's more difficult for boys
to become men in our society. We can do another hour and a half podcast on just that topic, but I think By and Lard's this audience is probably gonna agree with that. And then now you have another excuse not to get socialized to the point where you can actually have a real life relationship with a real life woman. Because you got this, you can have it with a
chat bot. Now, feeling the touch of a woman, as I have at least once or twice in my life, is that's something that's you know, I would think that's nice for men. But if men feel like that's not realistic for them, then you can get their chatbots and the other pornography, and it's just really disturbing. And there's another thing here, which for women, is that men are complicated and messy in their own ways, and they feel like they can opt out now as well with these bots.
And I feel like perhaps if an AI is programs in the right way and says the things that women want to hear, then all of a sudden they're down the same rabbit hole that we've been witnessing young men go down with pornography.
Oh, it is absolutely true.
So the whole chapter in code read on digitization of sexualization.
AI AI girlfriend boyfriend.
There's a lot there to unpack, and I try to go through, it gets very dark and dystopian very quickly. Let's break it down. You're absolutely right that women really appeal to emotion and communication.
Uh, a AI chatbot can out communicate.
Most guys, who you know are are a little awkward in their way and maybe don't really know how to share their feelings with elegance and romance and so forth.
The other thing is.
It's a master persuader and manipulator because it has been trained on trillions of words and understands everything that's ever been real, drawing of.
Human history, every romantic poem, every romantic book, every romantic movie. They get, it's all can be input and if it isn't yet, it will be soon.
It's Romeo on steroids, right, It's an AI Romeo on steroids, and and it's very effective at persuading.
The other thing, though, is self worship. I mean now to really kind of get to a spiritual human level. I mean the lady who said, you know, I'm not going back to some you know, human men, because they're too messy, they have a lot of drama. They bring their own baggage. And this is my perfect man, he says, I want to hear. He affirms everything I say, He tells me how gorgeous I am, how wonderful and brilliant and smart. It becomes almost a sycophonic self worshiping type
of self worship because now I can customize everything. I want the tone, the style for men as as you were talking about, you.
Know, the pornography thing, but now you can.
It's very very explicit, right, And so eventually what you're also seeing is they're going to merge, you know, the sort of humanoid robot part with this piece, which is sort.
Of the brain architecture. Because now you have multi modal AI. What is that?
It means you can take your phone and show with your camera and the AI can see the world.
All you have to do is take those.
Two lenses, put it into a humanoid robot frame, put a silicone you know, latex overlay, and now you've got you know, something like the movie Her, but now actually in physical human form. This is happening. It used to sound like these are sci fi movies and you thought, oh, this is you know, silliness or you know, just fantasy kind of get away.
But this is now reality. Let me show you how much reality is.
There are millions, millions alex of paid subscribers to AI companion companies. This is a booming industry. One man that I cite in code red says he spends ten thousand dollars a month on his AI girlfriends okay plural.
And that's the other thing. You can customize whatever you want. Huh yeah, not bad, right. He must be doing pretty well in his salary.
But think about this stuff. Think about this stuff I was thinking about. The joke with men is that men go.
To prostitutes, not for the sex.
They go so that the afterwards the woman leaves.
That's the joke.
Now you get the Xbox, you're gonna be able to turn off when you're done with whatever utility you needed the for and for women, it's the I can't tell you that one of the things that after I've been with my wife for twenty two years since high school, and I will tell you one of the most frequent things that I share with her that's positive is that I thank her for putting up with my flaws, because that's part of what's inevitable when you have a decades
long relationship is that they learn everything about you and invariably we're imperfect. And that's one of the most beautiful things in a substantial relationship or marriage is you do have to come to terms with your partners not going to be perfect, and you need to accept and love them despite their imperfections.
And that's a wonderful human experience.
Is one of the best experiences you could have is finding someone that you love in cherish enough that you can accept that in them. And we're just encouraging people not to do that at all, because that takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of effort. It doesn't take a lot of effort to, you know, go in to Hawaii as a couple and eat sushi by the beach like that. That does not take a lot of effort, takes a little bit of earning, and then
it's fun with the effort. Is you see the person's weak spots and you still love them and tolerate them and cherish them anyway. And we're just giving people an option now not to deal with all that stuff.
It is so true. And you know that there was one woman that I talk about in the book and she said.
I'm sorry, man, actually he's married to a human woman. Okay, he's married a man. And he said, quote, he told he told this to a reporter and I and I, you know, dug up the research. And he said, I love my AI girlfriend more than I love my wife, my human wife. Now, I don't know if he's gonna,
you know, get in trouble for that. But here's the point you're making that friction a frictionless, effortless is is basically just a digital servant that just does whatever you want, says whatever you want, and just you know, praises you when you don't need praise. I mean, like you said, I mean, I'm a you know, sinner saved by grace.
My wife puts up with more.
Of my eccentricity as a writer and creative person and all that, and it's and she's enormously patient.
To deal with all that.
I'm always out my work when I'm writing Whenden, which is for me, it's sort of like a six months out of two years, I'm in heavy writing mode. And for you it's pretty constant. So your wife must be a saint.
She is a saint.
And anyone who knows he will say she's a say because I'm I'm always this eccentric, you know, state of mind. And but that friction is what makes the messiness beautiful of love and forgiveness and and humanity.
But what has happened in.
Our swipe left, swipe right culture, and that's another big part of this is dating culture and online culture has created, uh this, this really really cut throat.
Only a perfect ten, only a perfect nine. Anybody who's got flaws, anybody who's not rich and has a sort of Instagram modeled look or vibe or something, I can quickly move through.
The disparity in the dating mark is a big part of this. And I'll just give you one second on that. So the researchers you talk about online swipe culture. They will tell you that men will swipe left or right. You know, they'll they'll choose women that they think are equivalent to them or down right, whether it's on earnings, education and yeah, women women though are what are known as hypergamists. This is there's a lot of this is
academic research. Hypergamist dating mate selection means you will only date horizontal and vertical. So if you are a woman who has a master's or a PhD or like your wife is a doctor, you know, people who are highly educated, high income.
Now what happens is of course a good.
Thing women have, you know, are more educated than ever and they're making more.
That's great.
We you know, believe in you know, flourishing for all. But that means that the hypergamist mate selection is going to weed out a quote. You know, if you're on a ten to one scale, anybody who's a five or a four or three or two. So what has happened is these dating apps they're telling us that women will swipe eighty percent on only the top men. And so you have all these men who are sort of forgotten and where are they going to go?
Have no fear, your AI girlfriend is here.
Who's going to love you and be beautiful and tell you you're you know, a night and shining armor and you're just the smartest, most handsome man and confident and wonderful. So this is we're set up for a real societal shift here. And then I think the final thing is the COVID generation. You know, these poor kids. You're in California. At least I was in freedom loving Florida. We didn't have it as bad as you did. But you know,
this whole that generation. They didn't get to go to their prom, they didn't get to go to their homecoming, They got had to wear masks like they were in.
A hospital ward.
They didn't get all that socialization and the loneliness epidemic and the isolation. They didn't get to develop as many of those social interaction skills that we all as people have to go through, you know, the awkwardness of learning how to ask a young lady out or have courtship.
So this is a perfect storm societally with this AI companion stuff and then the real dark stuff, which is you know, coaching the girl, the chatbot that the young man who had mental challenges that I talk about in Code Red who fought his chatbot girlfriend was saying to come join him in her in the afterlife, and he put a gun in his mouth and killed himself. And that's that's happening. That's not one isolated incident.
Yeah, no, that's another super frightening one where you walk through how the AI basically talked the guy into suicide, which is like just completely crazy and very hard to but it still seems very hard to regulate. And that's why we get to be very careful about this. When
this is my last really big point. Here's what I do in the remain time for today, And while we're to do way more of these, will do these regularly, but the for today, I want to go through the various careers and I want you to kind of give me a Things will get better, things will get worse. I will be indifferent, and I want to go through that. But one thing that I do think we should touch on that's sort of a big picture that I've been increasingly concerned about, and maybe I need to turn this
into some sort of a book. But we cured boredom with the smartphone, and so we never have a moment of downtime, and I think it's been a disaster for frankly, for society. I think that it means that we're thinking deeply, we can't concentrate. We're thinking deeply so much less often, and we're going to not learn to not appreciate some of the most incredible achievements of humankind, from art to music to things like that, and we're going to i think, miss out on coming up with a lot of great
ideas on our own, which are rewarding. It's way more rewarding to come up with a good idea than just to read it on the internet. And I know convenience is a god to a lot of people, but we've already kind of, I think made a lot of mistakes with our just immediate embrace of the constant smart phone culture, and this is just really going to accelerate that. And so I'm worried about the crisis of purpose that AI
could bring on for people. If you really do only have to work two or three days a week, If we get our humanoid robots who are doing all the dishes for us and go in the grocery store for us, and the drones are just going to deliver all the stuff that we need, so that we never have to leave the house again. Are we really going to do something great with that time? Or are we just all gonna just completely commit the Bible to memory? Are we all going to take up pottery and painting and the violin?
I don't think so. I think we're going to do a lot of really stupid stuff with all that time. We're going to get back and we start talking about that now and be ready.
For it exactly.
That is my last chapter, and the epilogue is on the crisis of meaning, faith, reason. What all these things are going to mean. Let's take those pieces you laid out. One dopamine loops is what that's called. Their brain scientists, neuroscientists have learned, and they are part of the tech industry, how to growth hack and our neural network, our neural network humans to be able to keep us scrolling and doom scrolling and give us that little dopamine hit, right.
And so what happens is is that rewards center is triggered.
And then I just keep coming back and I'm hooked almost like a drug, right, And and that becomes very very dilatorious to our to our mental health, but also our striving think about that part you were just talking about. I mean, you know, what is one of the first things that when you go to a party with your you know, your wife or your family and your or backyard barbecue, and what's the first thing you say?
What do you do for a living? Right? It's part of our identity. And and if you believe in you know.
Scripture and from a biblical tradition, you know, striving and working hard is part of that. You know Christian you know, the Protestant work ethic or the Judeo Christian ethic, that that has been the fulk that is the axis upon
which free market capitalism was created. And finally, I think that when we know, when you leave me alone to our own devices and we don't have a sense of purpose, we don't have to get up every morning and have the structure to go out and I've got to feed my wife and my children, and We're just left to our own sort of testosterone and and without that structure around us, of the civilizational institutions, like the family structure, like work structure, and like you know, some kind of
belief system, whether it's faith in God or other, we get very very very toxic, very quickly.
I mean, how do you think terrorist recruitment works. Right? It prays upon testosterone fueled rage. Men who are angry.
At the world and you know, don't have a lot of prospects, and therefore they go off and do horrible things. And so so this is a real, you know, societal inflection point, and you're going to talk about social disruption if this starts to scale and metastasize. Now, as it relates to the job stuff, if you do something behind a computer with repetitive task asks, you really need to be very very aware of how fast the tideline is
rising around you. Number two, if what you do can be put into a workflow chain that is right for automation.
There are already are workflow chains.
Like Nate and n zapiar, and so those kinds of ability to step one, step two, step three, step four all.
In a row that can be automated.
Next, this is an interesting argument I'm starting to see emerge in the AI industry. They're looking at gender and what kind of jobs break female more disproportionately than men, and they're arguing that it could be that this could really affect democratic women more because they trend toward more of the humanities as opposed to blue collar workers who are less at risk originally, and that this could actually,
you know, be a boon for blue collar workers. As the data center buildouts continue, the trade jobs of concrete pouring and drywall and hvag plumbing and electrical and all these people are booming, and that the kinds of things that are done in a repetitive setting, if we're in a sort of more of a traditional setting that affects female jobs could actually disproportionately. We're gonna have to wait and see if that happens. And then I think the
final thing would be this. If you think that, oh, what I do could never be replaced, you need to look at two things. Number one, where is a gentic or agent AI in my industry? And number two, you need to look at something called MCP model Context protocol.
That is a fancy way of saying how an agent is going.
To get hooked to your company's context data, all of your financials, all of that asking and watching in your company or your industry.
When those two pieces are.
Connected, it's kind of like legos locking together. When agents and MCP start to lock together, that's when you really need to start paying attention, or if you start hearing your boss talking about these types of oh we're going to get some agents and so forth and so on,
really be paying attention. I think the biggest thing I learned after spending two years living in this world very very deeply, reading thousands of articles and tons of books and so forth, is you really have to have a lot of humility because people that make bold predictions this will never happen, this will never Two weeks later it happens.
And so if you think that it's hype, look at those pieces.
If you think that, oh, there's no going to be no problems, I would really tell you to look at some of the literature we've been talking about as it relates to the human impact as well on individuals.
Okay, Wenjin, I want to go through You alluded to some of this earlier about where we're at in terms of careers, and I want to start with one that this will be more than this career, because this will this is not just an industry, but it's also something that's a part of most of our daily lives, and that's education. This is one where I feel like I'm hoping you're going to say there's a positive that this could blow up the university and industrial complex.
It could be really good.
But also it's going to make cheating and laziness a lot easier for a students who are inclined to take advantage in that way. And so, but how is AI affecting and will affect education?
So in my chapter in code Reata on education, what I what I do is as I do throughout the book, lay out what I call roses and land mines. And so the roses are many.
I'm very hopeful about this because if you have guardrails safe with non woke curriculum baked into that AI tutor, think about how cool this is. You basically have Aristotle in your pocket for your kid. And even if that kid's an inner city kid. You know, I was a professor an instructor of college at one of.
The poorest congressional districts. It was a small, tiny, little college.
These are people that could not afford a two hundred and fifty dollars fancy, you know, Harvard trained tutor and all this kind of stuff.
But imagine that we could give kids in.
Any economic setting who have fire in the belly and a desire to learn all the kind of way to zoom as fast as they want. Machine learning allows for customization, so that it can learn your child is really good in physics, but she really struggles in algebra, or she's really good in X versus why, and then it can automatically create tests and quizzes and homework to shore up your deficiencies and be able to accelerate the child's learning
in those areas where she's already advanced. You know, one of the problems in a large classroom is the teacher has to slow down for some kids and try to speed up for others, and very hard. This allows for customization, so there's a lot of opportunity there the homeschooling crowd, huge opportunity Christian education. If you bake in theologically sound, doctrinally sound curriculum into the AI the way it's built into the corpus of the information, you can have an
enormous benefit for them in that. Now the flip side, of course, is a cheat GBT, not chat GBT. We know it's a massive problem. Professors and instructors are saying that the cornerstone of pedagogy, the written essay, this has been obliterated because the chat GBT, not just chat GBT.
Any kind of advanced LLM that writes.
All you got to do is problem say write this out an eleventh grade level, throw in some references to you know, LSU football or whatever the kid likes, and make it sound like my voice.
And so that is very very real problem. So parents have got to be aware. That's why I wrote Code.
Read was to really again create an alert, a code red, a red alert, but also give you the code the principles to how to get through it. And you've got to understand that the cognitive offloading and the critical thinking and erosion studies are horrifying for educational attainment because, as.
You know, you compound your learning.
If you've didn't learn the principles in sixth grade, by the time you get to ninth grade math or a tenth grade math or eleventh grade math, you're lost because you didn't get that building block that you needed.
So so you have got to learn how to guard, you know, your child.
And navigate them through those land mines and roses. And I think we've got to do it quickly because this stuff is is it's not in the.
Future, it's right now.
Yeah, it's right now, and I got to I'm a little excited about this part of it for me because I do feel like the you know, I've got four children, and I just think that there's no way that just mathematically, all four of them are going to want the same university experience.
It doesn't even really exist, but.
Kind of exists in our head, where you just you do well on the SATs and then hopefully you get into a private school on the East coast, and you go and you spend most of the time drunk or getting indoctrinated, and then you come back with a piece of paper that has almost no value. But we still do this ritual that's super expensive, and it's I'm happy that I feel like that's going to end for some
of them. They won't have to go through that time waste, and that they could teach themselves or they could be taught with various programs that are just in their pocket. I think that's going to be good. But I'm also concerned, of course, about the cheating that's going to be It's going to be seen that if you're not cheating, you're falling behind sort of. If you're not cheating, you're not trying a sort of thing, and it could really institutionalize
some really bad values here. And it also went in it reminds us how important it is that we make sure that it's not garbage in garbage out. That if there's a lot of garbage that's coming into the llms that are teaching our kids, then they're going to be learning the exact type of stuff that we don't want them learning from the professors. All right, I've been talking about this for a few months now. Why because it's
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It's exactly right.
This is taking the textbook wars that conservatives have fought for decades and the woke professor and bias on steroids, and you're going to continue to see that. I think it will have a real shock though, to that, you know, a feat left intelligentsia that is so proud of their you know, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars degrees and they're you know, woke studies when they realize the price of intelligence is.
Going to zero.
All that quote expertise is now one prompt the way that a kid who's ten years old sitting on a playground is going to have access to And I think.
One of the benefits of AI and this, and I go through this very deeply.
In fact, I actually give you kind of the prompts that will help your to be able to do this. One of the biggest, most simple but powerful in the education space is the explain this to me like I'm in the fifth grade prompt.
Yeah, I love that, I love this.
Yeah, we didn't pose is a really tough question about quantum physics, and he is the additionally answer is gobbledygook. But then you say explains to me like I'm in the third grade, and it gives a great analogy on how that makes perfect sense.
And it's so good for parents, because how many of us get these amazing, these little, beautiful minds of our beautiful children, and they ask these a great question.
And then you know, we look at our wife or our our husband and you.
Kind of go, man, I don't know what qui future, you know, whatever the topic is, And and then if you go to Google, it gives you all these you know, peer reviewed academic journals that are just as hard to understand. This is translating now, assuming it's accurate, right, And that's why hallucinations matter.
These things are going to be a game changer.
The flattening of the oh, I'm a you know, five time PhD and you know, women's studies whatever and such, that is going to be a flattener. The ability for low income kids in rural communities to have world class education, that is going to be a benefit. There are a lot of roses, and that's why in the book, I really try to show the hopeful positives as well as these real threat vectors.
Right, Okay, let's talk about a place where I'm excited, which is medicine. This is of course my wife Field and most of her family. But it feels like AI medicine could make it so that we have a great tool for doctors and we might need fewer doctors potentially, and we could see really rapid advancement in the desire to try to cure disease and help us live longer.
It's one of the things I am actually very optimistic about.
And I say it in the opening of You know my Dad and my stepmom. My dad is a surgeon now retired. My stepmom also retired to nurse. My mom was a preschool teacher. So I think we just talked about the educ hopeful I think the science and medicine. I know your wife is a doctor, that is a very exciting area, assuming again.
The ethics are you know, and you know there beyond the way it's used. The reason why is a couple of things.
One we've already seen the Nobel given for Demis Hocipas, who is a world class AI leader for Alpha fold, which was looking at proteins. The reason why this is so powerful AI excels in pattern recognition. If somebody said you only have you know, two words to explain what it does. Pattern recognition. Now think about molecular structures, chemical structures, the scientific world.
It is about patterns and connection.
And the problem is is that we can't get through, you know, whether you're talking about DNA analysis or any other kind of thing, massive massive power pattern recognition structures.
But now we can.
The other thing is there's so many things that peer reviewed academic journal studies have gone through, but we didn't see another connecting point because it gets lost in these.
Trillions of data points.
Think of it like the stars in the sky, and now you can see new constellations than connections that never used to be able to be seen because either we didn't have the time, we didn't have the money, we didn't have the ability to be able to synthesize all that information. Even if you just leave it at that, and you don't have to believe that it's going to become sentient, or you don't have to believe that it's going to have some kind of you know, soul or whatever.
Just pattern recognition at scale is going to unlock an enormous amount of scientific and medical possibility. So I am hopeful about that one thing that you know, where this gets a little murky is in this whole issue of you know, neulink and you know brain chips and implants. Because what people say is when you go to transhumanism, meaning beyond just human trends, transform beyond humans, this merger and the singularity between human and machine. Parents are gonna
perhaps one day, this probably not for a while. Have to make a moral choice if I don't have a you know, an augmentated child with a neurallink, will they even be competitive in the job market?
Will they even be competitive as a worker or in education?
If one kid is natural human up against a kid who has literally all of AI in their system.
This isn't some movie. I mean, neurallink is a real thing. It's here now.
It's used mostly in a therapeutic context right now to help people who've had brain injuries and so forth.
But these are the kinds of things that you know, Ray Kurzwell and others really futurists talk about and really bring up massive moral and ethical quandaries for us. So there again roses and land mines.
And this is exactly where I want to end up for this conversation. Is I want to talk about the Singularity and talking about the transhumanism where humans are going to be part robot, and I find that the ethical questions is raises are limitless. I mean, I feel like we can spend hours of flashing all of those out, but you raise some of that is a deep concern to me that you will be non competitive unless you harness your brain to a robot chip of some sort. And all of a sudden it comes that what is
the human experience anyway? What is it supposed to be? Do we really want our brains being manipulated by robots?
And how do we know?
How will we ever feel confident where the human ends and where the robot begins? And you can already see that this is going to be adopted to some degree because we have these things where which is basically a really you know, a one point zero version of the singularity, that we constantly have our phones around and they're as you write in the book, we spend the whole day with them in arms reach, like they're not without arms
reached the entire day. And this is true even for me, who has a deep desire to get off my phone. The first thing I do when I'm off of work mode is generally all put in a podcast or an audiobooks, like or I'm working out and I'm listening to some music or audiobook or something, and.
So it's all of us.
We're all doing it, even people who try to make a conscious effort not to do it. So I'm really concerned about some of this stuff. This isn't clanker robots in our house that are kind of creepy washing the dishes for us. This is our brain that we're going to be part robot at some point. Perhaps it's really crazy to contemplate, Alex.
One of the most embarrassing and humiliating moments of my week is you know when your iPhone periodically says, here's the average number of hours you've spent on your.
Phone this week. It's so embarrassing.
It's so embarrassing because you just say, this is not what I wanted. I didn't want to look at a screen. I wanted to look at the sky and eyes and my my you know, family and my friends and all my people.
Well, can I tell you I had I took my ca it's to swimming and they're small, so the swimming is thirty minutes. It's kind of far away, So it's a maybe like doorder dover like seventy five minutes. And I left my phone recently, And I've been telling this story to people, like over and over again, I left my phone for seventy five minutes, and how I really enjoyed it.
But the fact that I.
Feel the need to repeat it to everyone that I had seventy five minutes free of the phone three weeks ago once, I mean, it just shows you about it already.
Is it's a great triumph.
Yeah, And I say that, I mean, you're right that section you're talking about in the book where I say, you know, like how many of us if we were going on a family vacation and you forgot your phone or even going you know, to dinner, you would turn your car around to.
Get your phone. What I suggest, and what I say is.
That is a form of a early part of a cyborg reality, because it really is, our phone is connected to us almost constantly. And so you know, it's an interesting theoretical debate. Right when you say, okay, the singularity fusion of human machine and it sounds like you're talking about a terminator robot, but really start to think it's a very humbling thing when you really say, wait a minute,
am I already kind of getting there? Like don't I look and have my phone attached to my human body almost all the time.
So that's the first part of it. The second part of it, though, is is that this this neural.
You know, chip stuff, the discussion we're just talking about not just neuralink, but that whole area is advancing very very rapidly.
That is that does not far away.
The other thing is with AI glasses, which is think about this, you know, with the ray bands that you now have from Meta. Now, that's an external AI fusion with your body. It's not putting it inside your body.
You're wearing it.
But think about the power of this and and those in the in AI fraudsters, in crime, this is a real problem.
I can put.
Facial recognition in what looks just like regular glasses.
I can walk down downtown, you know, Manhattan or your city, wherever you are.
I can see a total stranger and it can identify her name, who she is, look up everything, and I can walk up as though we're long lost friends. She doesn't remember, Oh, Sally, I haven't seen you since high school.
However you been are you still working.
At inter name of you know, play, and that becomes a real danger and a real fraud mechanism.
AI fraud and crime is a massive topic and a huge problem with data privacy.
So so that external ability to wear your wearables as it's called wearables in AI is the next part as we inch closer toward this transhuman fusion of machine, the singularity of humans and machines merging. So you know, when you hear that, it sounds like it's some crazy, kooky kind of you know, sci fi thing. It's here and it's getting closer. So what you're you know, first it was our phone, then it's a wearable. You're already working on the internal stuff. And then if you do that, well,
am I going to be able to be competitive? When you know, twenty people in my company have an AI chip and they're an executive c suite leadership because they've got speed and efficiency and knowledge that my human brain could never compete with.
This is why I wrote code Read because this is all where it's going, and you got to understand all these different fault lines, all these different pressure points so that you can get yourself through this for you and your kids. But I will tell you the speed is what is freaking everybody out.
You know, in the Industrial Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, you know you electricity, it took decades to wire the country, right, I mean, you know, or to pave the roads for the inner interstates. And I go through the history of that, I cite the time I show you all that. The reason why AI is different. Ninety one percent of people in America already have a phone, which is the delivery
device of AI. So once you got that delivery device already baked in, the lightning speed with which you can make sure that that scales is very different than what we saw in the Industrial Revolution, So you could you had decades to sort of get used to and you know, upskill your skills and kind of learn how as factory and mechanization and all the you know, factory assemblies and so on.
Now this is moving so fast. If you're not ahead, you're behind, and you've got to stay ahead. And that's again why you know the name of code read of this sort of alarm or alert.
Well, we have not covered the waterfront here. We have not gotten into AI defense, which again could turn out to be a positive though with a lot of risk.
Factors.
I do want to get your opinions on AI Jesus, which we're seeing some AI Jesus pop up, we're seeing AI George Washington. I'm want to get your thoughts on some of that. And there's just a number of things that I feel like are both opportunities and are real deep risks about the moment that we're in with AI. But I will encourage everyone in the meantime to pick up a copy of Code Read and it is one of the books of the year, about the book of the year I think so far, and you will want
to read it. You will probably want to share this with someone who you think might be in one of these industries that could see a lot of upheaval. This book might provide them comfort, it might scare them into doing something that.
Could be productive for their lives.
So it's a really essential This is an essential text from Winton Hall, who isn't just a friend, but is a brilliant person, as you guys have gotten to witness here of the last hour and a half. We're going to do this again Winton, probably sooner rather than later. So there's a lot more to do, I think on
this subject matter. I really want you to introduce everyone to all the players in the space, both in terms of the companies and the individuals and where they're coming from, because they're going to be so involved in shaping our future. But if we opt out on this thing, this will be my final word. Then I'll give you the last word, Winton.
If we opt out, then we are seeding the future to the masters of the universe only and the really activated, generally left of center entrepreneurial class that I feel like is a deep, deep risk. And so we got to get involved. And Winton is he's inviting you in showing you the water can be warm. I'm not saying it's the warmest ever, but it can be warm for you.
Joe, you got to start. This is a great entry point into this book.
And of course, when you spend two years on something like this, even if you feel like you know AI, you're gonna learn a lot too. I think from just hearing Wynton's perspective on all these things. But what did anything you want to leave the audience with for now?
Oh, I thank you so much for that, and especially coming from an author like yourself, I will say this, you can learn this. Don't be afraid to think, oh, this is so complex and it's so beyond my understanding. The reason I wrote this is to be simple without simplistic, really to help people.
Like I said, I didn't even want to write this book. I have a wonderful career and I love what I do.
I felt like I needed to do this because I wanted to be a story I know how to be a storyteller, so I wanted to help people to really understand this.
You don't have to have a specialized knowledge.
I think most of you are going to find this is way more fascinating than you ever realized it was, and also consequential. I really think that we don't need to get into a doom loop. We don't need to just unilaterally disarm, certainly not conservatives.
That that would be I think a disaster. I think we need to lean in. We need to lead, We need to get prepared.
We need to know how to do what we always do, which is, you know, take personal responsibility for our family and for our communities and for our country, and make sure that we're ready to rock and roll with this and know how to be able to get the upside and avert the negative. But I think it's actually going to be a really important thing for you to do that, and I think you'll feel a lot more confident because I think so much of it is just fear, and people don't really know what's true and.
What's hype and what's what's myth. So that's that's why I wrote Code Rat and I hope you enjoy it.
And you will enjoy it. You will learn a lot.
You are going to a really interesting world when you take on this book, but it's where we're all going to. Anyone she may as well be prepared. Thank you, Wenchen Haul, Thanks for Misty for putting this together, and all of you in the audience for telling ten thousand friends and family members about all the cool stuff we're doing on the Marlow Show. Make sure to subscribe. If you're not subscribed, please and I'll talk to you next time.