Hey and welcome back to the a24 podcast. You might know actress honor Swinton burn from her incredible performance. In Joanna, Hogs the souvenir Parts 1 and 2. For today's episode on are called in from the remote Scottish Highlands for a long-distance conversation with a fan who was very excited to meet her. Paul. Mezcal also happens to be one of the most exciting, young actors around, and he's starring in her upcoming film. God's creatures. We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Listen to the very end for a surprise guest appearance. I know what a sentence were shouting on the 824 podcast. We've made it. What did you ask sir? Okay. I will you allow me to like geek out for a little second because I only found this out the other day with the souvenir. That there was no, I don't like, I'm sure this is like not used to a lot of people but it was news to me in that you didn't work from a kind of traditional script and what that looked like.
Because of both gives me kind of like, total fear and chills as a concept because I'm scared of it. Also, I think it's like True Form acting that I'm yeah, I just love you to talk a little bit about that and what that was like and were you scared? Or was it a? Is it a form in which we really like to work? So your question it was Jus. It was such a, it was very frightening and very freeing the same time. It was very kind of like it was overwhelming.
Also felt very natural. I would really like to work. Probably only like that in the future. It feels like such a kind of organic. The flow really interesting things happen. I think when you're improvising as another person, that's interesting because you're accepting all the stimuli or getting visually in or you know, through sound and everything. People speaking to people, you know, seeing people coming at you with knives as there was in one scene that I didn't know
what's going to happen. That was cut this drugs. Either came at me with a knife and I'll say and then I had to yeah, real. Is Judy but Arizona would kick the guy. The knots Judy would like be a bit of a victim. Yeah, so it's kind of And how do you like, navigate, like, like how do you navigate the surprise
at? Like, I mean, like when you're in character in a scene, like, do you find that the process has evolved to the point where Joanna and through conversations with yourself and Joanna that arrived on set with in that kind of space within Julie's world, but when something actually surprises you to the lines blur at all, like you find that there is like an amalgamation of honor and Julia moments or are you in a position? I bet you know that characters.
Well, that is just like two separate people. You know what I'm trying to say, like, where do the lines blur in that? Ya know, and you're saying it so well, because I tried to explain this to people and I haven't explained as well as you just did there.
The kind of the lines blur. Absolutely, the lines blur they really do, you know, I didn't think they would and I think over time they did more because she was like my auntie go by the end of it. And then, as your maybe see in part two, we truly an honor, get very, very close in. Tea and sort of tell that it's really interesting.
So we start off the first souvenir as someone who's very different to me, but somebody who I once was very interesting, me enough and then at the end of the second one, its kind of Honor. So it's kind of more things iteration happens. And it's interesting because when speaking with Joanna about Superman tries, it's amazing.
Yeah. I feel like Joanna said, she sort of, I mean, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I understood from her that she I have a sort of very precise, clear, sort of climax of the second one. She wanted to see where I took it. Okay? With her guidance and it just really excited to cool kind of unpredictable. Yeah turn to it. But yeah, absolutely the characters really meshed. So they really kind of merged in
good ways and bad. I feel like a lot of the time I would react in the scenes very He you know quite kind of ballsy and aggressive and certain of myself and Joanna's a cat. Coco got no one. I'd like just remember that you're not you haven't quite got the holes yet. You haven't quite you're not quite there yet. You're still good and you're in this really weird way, emotionally abusive relationship. So just don't appear. So it would take a few goes
sometimes. Yeah, but yeah, like you'd that the scenes with yourself like I love like the scenes with yourself and Tom and Like your mother like incredible, but that
kind of that. I feel like the form, like, the shooting for, like the just the format of like not having a screen like essentially, it to me watching the film and the film's about manipulation and gas lighting which is kind of weirdly ingrained in the shooting process in a safer in a safer way, you know, like it's like you're being drip fed this information as the character is are not to like explain what it was for you but from an audience's perspective, I feel
like having never learnt about that's the way. You shot it. It makes total sense. It's like you are in a similar emotional and mental state as the character and and that's where it like really helps to blur the lines. I feel like from a process point of view, right. That's exactly as by one and it's such a good way. It's such a good way to work. When you're particularly doing all this, very it's all
improvised. Obviously, it's all, you know, literally, I'm not told and not given any lines and I think, yeah, I Joanna just sort of was the puppet master in just such a genius. Wait. Liam. So like safe, gentle as you say, like so secure and I trusted her to it to the ends of the Earth. Yeah, but it really was this very consensual, very interesting that very different in this plot line, but very consensual. So naivety that I just surrendered to. Yeah.
And interestingly enough and Tom had read the, I mean there wasn't a script but there was a there was a manuscript, a thing during the closet. Right, which was just like pages of pros and descriptions of scenes and no lumps or anything, but he had read that. I've never seen it still to this day. I have no idea what to Hannah, like envisioned before we shot. It is quite nice to not see it because then I can't compare it. To what?
It could have been or anything. It's sort of quite it's yeah, it's just organic. I keep coming back to this world like it's just very. Yeah, just happened in a really Whole natural way. And yeah, I mean, I met Tom for the first time in the scene when I actually met him on camera like incredible. It was so weird. So the scene in there, the bit in the first film where I meet him is, I've never died. I didn't know what actor the
actor did. You know who I joy to adjoint like that just doesn't happen anymore, like that kind of like, that's such an experience. It's so cool. That's such an easy. And it's Ford like what? So, what? I love about that is that that's just for you? Like the audience doesn't know that this is the first time that the two actors have met. Like that's so it's like I loved one directors.
Make it like when they make it harder to protect that because I like I think it's all like to a certain extent about pretending but when when they make it that bit easier to not pretend like when it's like they put things in but they put structures or like scenarios and place where it like gets the little like child in your mind. Excited about the fact that this is this Version of like your imagination is actually closer to the truth than like the imagine what I'm trying to say
like, that one, exactly. Yeah. When it's like, being held up as like, like a fat like, when, when you're acting in a scene and it's almost like a fantasy of your imagination because it's your in and, or like you're in a period of History meeting somebody for the first time and you're actually meeting for the first time at. That's a that's like not a fully articulated thought but I just got excited about being in her shoes in that position. I'd be like this is like Mike Kryptonite stories.
I hope you do not want to see. I can't wait. I feel like you're one day. Have an experience similar because it's It's so amazing. And it's so interesting because I can't take credit for how believable it seems because it really it's real. So it's almost like no, but of course you can write like in the sense that like, it doesn't matter if it's real or not. You still got to do and you did
so brilliantly. Like you've still got to like I feel like there's weirdly more pressure on you given the fact that you like know that all of this has been put in place to support you that you then. I have to be totally present and like, allow it to kind of flourish. And and, and be the moment that Joanna is hoping it will be. And I don't totally is my film and like, yeah. Yeah. Well, she just designed it in such a, it really was like a dance.
It was so Corey. It was so choreographs and it only ever realized. Now actually, how I don't want to say control, they don't want to use that word, but how kind of structured it actually kind of was because to me, because I was the only one on sack who had He didn't get call sheets, who had no idea what seems we were doing. I was the only one and so I was so upset. So out of my death. I was like floundering in a good
way and joy floundering. Yeah, but everyone else was completely aware of how this thing was going to start. How to see was going to end and whatever happened down that path, whatever Journey we took in the sort of Sandwich. Filling of that was, you know, I haven't for the sort of, interpretation of the actors and so just like, Or a nerd nerdy question in terms of like how you went about shooting that. Like so I can't imagine there is a huge amount of rehearsal.
But in the sense that like in terms of coverage, like if they're looking to keep you the actor and Julie and the dark, did they shoot your coverage first? They should Masters first, or how did that work in terms of like filmmaking process side of things? Like how was that style protected with there was? No rehearsals at all. So, we would often yes. Shoot, each scene twice and move on. This like massive massive better film, The will cut out because we shot. I think in total.
I think each film took about two months to shoot really short, right? Really, really quick. And what often happens is, Joanna is she would shoot for 20 minutes. They should do a 20-minute take, and then kind of take the week until right around 60. Ml. How long could that run for? I think like so these are all super nerdy questions, but like so that's so that's so the my can take 20 minutes I would Should know this. Like I kind of I do something.
Yeah, I should know this, but I think it is about 20 minutes. I think that's could I do, remember they were like there was maybe we would just kind of run and the Jew on. It was just amazing to witness like these people. That just knew so much about film and they were like proper nerdy. Like yeah, these had been their lives like they'd gone to film school and they like maybe student films that no one really wants to work on and they failed and being kind of like it's so amazing.
So I was like I was it wasn't Credible to pretend pretend to be a film school. When I kind of like when all these people had actually witnessed it and kind of had been in that position before. And I just the fact that like film is making a comeback in terms of like I don't know if you feel but it's so it's I think it changes everything when you're like, it's it's really like coming back. Like the fact that people just want to shoot on 30.
I know you guys shot on 16 but like 35 is coming back.
Like his in the last. The next thing I'm doing is on 35 in the night, the last two, Things have been on 35 and it's just such a, it's like something that like you listen to older actors talk about in the sense that like they ask if you've shot on film or things like this and its really, I don't even know what my point is. I'm just kind of excited that it's coming back and that we get to do it, and that it's this, it does feel like kind of, when you hear about musicians, like
recording on tape rather than digitally feels like that. It's richer or something. Exact, makes everything less
kind of like disposable. I think it makes like like performance and choice, like it's not just like run through and we'll try it tons of times and I think it requires a kind of attention and focus and kind of discipline which I do, which I find like hugely important and yeah, but it is 0.2 made there other than I was like, yeah that's coming back and like to get to like like act for a full like my gun film and Joanna's not calling code is like so Into here, but I'm amazing.
Yeah, and it was so it's like it's very sensible to me. The fact that I picked is so precious. They transporting a film afterwards was like such a massive parade God, whether there's going to be a hair in the gate and the whole thing was going to be gone. Like it was just any sort of this something. So. Yeah, you can almost taste like when you're watching it the graininess, the like that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly what you say. It's so nice. It's so personal. There's something.
So, like Roar about it then. Digital personal quite it's not the same thing, but enough about me, please. Please tell me what it was like to work. Where did you shoot normal people? We shot it like mostly in Dublin and Sligo and Italy and like I like I was telling you for I saw your film when I was shooting your own people with Daisy. We went to Seminary like was like long week and were like, hey, let's just go see this. And so yeah, it's a feel like it.
Linked in that sense, but I'm here, we started the summer of I think, 2019 and yeah, it's kind of crazy that it's still to a certain extent. People talk about it, which is a really exciting. And yeah, of course. My God, it's literally is all my friends talk about. It's just and they don't talk about enough, like it's just it's I yeah, I can't get it, but I've never met Daisy. So, we share the same agency and I've never know. I've never met her. Oh, fun.
I've heard like just so she's Like, the best. Oh, yeah, like I feel like she's just wanted, like, it genuinely one of a kind of talking to her the other day. And it's a weird thing that I like we were talking about like, having spent so much time with each other that summer and then
covid happens. And we spend so much time on zooms with each other talking about the thing and then suddenly the world opens up. And we're so lucky that that shows, like then allowed us to work in like different corners of the world on projects that were really excited. But we essentially really haven't really hung out. I'm kind of like decompress together about like wasps that
I'm shooting experience was. So we're like trying to plan around Christmas when we can hang out and see each other. So it's a, but I feel like we've got like, for both of us, we talked about the fact that like, so much has happened and two years. The feels like six months, but there's no real point there, but it's just been a lot has happened to us and I'd like, we just yeah. Yeah, that's how I feel as well. It's just flown by, but just so
much has been Been condensed. I mean I've been at Uni online which is so shit. It doesn't feel like I've been studying. Yeah, my brother's the same. He's like sick of it. How old is your brother? My brother is 20. Oh Jesus, it's 22. He's 22. He's 22. I'm sorry. Donna. Kay. It's funny to study. He is studying a chore management and he's like my sisters. Is that she's an amazing singer.
And my brother is like the person that you turn to in a moment of Crisis, who is so chill and kind in a way that is like, so disarming, like he plays rugby and like, he's big strong boy, but he's like, collectively as a family, we turn to Donna, kafir. Like a kind of level-headed voice. So, yeah, hate your feels like he's whatever whatever he does is just get like, he'll be Public facing people person, I get such a kick out of getting a shoutout in the 824 podcast role.
He took my hair. I know I just I love here we go. People talk about their siblings like when they really really love them. I just get sad. I don't know what it is. It's like different took my friends or parents feel like if I really hated him like imagine. I really hated him. I feel like I would perform loving him on the a 24 podcast, you know, well, Exactly. Actually, we're gonna bring forward a minute, but actually like my brother. Oh, he's publicly.
I I hate him. I'm gonna sit Nikon him before. Okay, great. He's gonna get annoyed. Even listen to this. If you what I can't even pretend you hate each other. Hey, each other which winds like each other. Anyway, enough everyone about him enough a little bit. So your sister. She's how did you get started in all this? How did You like what like in in the world of acting and yeah, how did it all start for you to know? I wish I could tell you I don't I I never planned it.
I never I remember Joanna cost me like two weeks before we started shooting the first souvenir like 10 days. Maybe and well, I like just left school. I was sorry. Yeah crazy. Yeah. So 10 days before and you find out you're going to knock out a script and Cut my hair. Don't know who you're going to be acting with go picture. Like that's I really cut my hair like kitchens. Yes. That's a bathroom. It was like really incredible. It was so weird at the time.
It was like such an adrenaline High. I was like, brilliant. Fantastic. I'm like, just that school and I was a florist assistant at the time. So I was like to go into weddings and carrying buckets of like shit everywhere for months and then Joanna came to say to talk to my mother. About the souvenir because my mom was always connected to it, and I'll add about it, how my mom sort of speak about this
amazing film. Do I know is going to make about her younger years and being a film student, the 80s. I was like, wow, that's so cool. Fantastic. I like, oh, you're going to be the mom? That's amazing. Never even entered my brain. That it would be. That I would be involved in any way. I was like, oh, maybe I'll be an extra. Like maybe I'll be, I know your mother would be playing your mother like that when you actually own pocket, it's, there's so much.
There's so much going on, like it's just incredible. My dogs are in it that my dogs as well and like all that. I wear a lot of my mom's clothes and the second one, all of the stuff toys and all the pillows and all the decorations. And the first one on mine, like a from my bedroom. Like, it's weird, like It's So Meta, it's just amazing. Everything was, yeah. It was amazing. So yeah, she came to stay and I remember I came back from Singapore Sling. I think we were, I think we met
in train station. We met in Barrack pondweed station and I was coming back from Edinburgh and she was going to London and we met on the platform and it was really rainy and we went and sat in a cafe Nero because I remember, we walked away without paying by accident and we sat there for like, for three hours and she asked me, I had no idea.
She was you know, observing me or sort of, interviewing me, casting me. That she was just asking questions about ex-boyfriends and weird sort of gaslighting experiences. I do, you know, had I think quite recently at that point and I was just talking really freely and I remember, I remember I look back now seeing it slightly differently. And she, yeah, she was just looking at me. And she was like, God. That's so interesting. Fantastic.
It's just like putting you in a film as you were speaking. That's crazy. I got home. And she was like, so, Do you want to do? Wanna be in the film? And I'll say, yeah. Yeah, it's your stuff like, right, that day at the kitchen table and she was kind of want to be in it. I don't need an answer. Now. How will you think about it and get back to me?
Because it's a big commitment, you know, we're going to do two films and it will be over like four years and it's like very low budget, and very kind of like, you wouldn't know about the skewer and read the script. Wouldn't really know the story and I was like, me out, know him. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. She was like, I don't think you're quite understanding, like, what's what I'm presenting to you. And I was like, no, no, let's do it.
And if we just, and we did it like 10 days later and it was such a fast decision ever made. Amazing. It was super cool. That's incredible. Are you allowed to talk about? Like it's not like the things that you've just done about the projects. You just think. I can't really top secret. Yeah, I'm like, well, one of the film's is a 10-8 24 film. That has been like an ounce, so I can talk about. Yeah, I time. I can't like, I can't wait. It's a film called them God's creatures.
We shot it in Ireland. Emily Watson, plays. My mom and I love her deeply and I'm just excited for the film and the context of like wash. It's dark. It's incredibly well-written and I'm just, I'm really excited to see what the kind of film going audience's. Response is. To it. And it was directed by Anna and silly. It's an Irish film directed by two. Women who live in New York, which I'm super excited about it for like from an Irish creative standpoint that it were.
It's not like I feel like the gatekeeping of our own cultures as kind of got to change a little bit in terms of like let's get like brilliant directors in to examine us culturally and I'm not start the discussion from from there and which I like in terms of like narrative stuff. It's I can't. Really talk about it, but I'm just really excited for it to come out. I don't know what I could be next year at some point, but I'm slightly 24 family or a 24/5. Exactly.
They're very good to us. That was always like one of my kind of, but they're very good at my God. I'd love to be in it. It's like the opposite of talking about our brothers that we hate. Actually, it's illegal. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we're, yes. We're in Ireland is home for you. So my family are from playstore Maynooth, like an hour away from Dublin. It's kind of like that.
Something like, that's probably technically home and like, I'm going home for Christmas, which is going to be exciting, but home is kind of, like, at the moment. It's kind of all all over the place, like I don't live there. I was living in London. And last year and then with work, I'm kind of like the cliche thing of like, living out of a suitcase and, which is wonderful, but also kind of, like, at moments, like, anxiety and siding on my crew.
If shit, hit the fan. I, I love my family very much, but I don't necessarily want to go back to my like, own bedroom. So I'm kind of in the process now, kind of figuring out. Where I want to be in the world, which I always thought, we'd just be like, an easy like he's like, which is naive.
I was like, yeah, probably like to live in London for a couple of years and come back home and I like I'm definitely known in flux in terms of just that figuring out exactly where I want to be. But what about you? It's home. Home is your own Union. Edinburgh, home in London, Edinburgh, in Scotland. It's just like, it's just got a beeper. I don't know, but you I'm in the same kind of weird. I mean, not exactly the same. I'm not traveling as much but it's, it's being. So I just turned 24.
So we're the same age and it's a weird stage because you're just, you're kind of you're not just kind of creeps on any make life decisions. Yeah, you're not that young anymore. And I'm like, I'm young and do whatever what I mean. It's like no I'm in my mid twenties. They know I actually call it but then you're not you're not remotely on and like slowly developing a bad back, but I'm glad you know, you're getting old when Like make a noise and you stand up your and now I'm
like gonna call my joints. I'll say what's wrong with me. Like I'm being possessed by this old like woman. Oh man, really. And it's just weird like, it's weird being this age and also just yeah, just working out where you kind of belong and where you want your place to be. Not your family's know. Your partner is not H like where your kind of Nest should be. But yeah, I think it's about like being patient with us. Certain extent.
Just because what I've learned over the last few years is that like displacement is kind of part and parcel of it all and kind of its kind of a contradiction. It's like I hated but I've kind of got to be at peace with it in the sense that like you go onto these set and you're going to rehearsals rehearsal rooms and B innate nature.
These people become more like family or their closest people to you for an extended period of time and Then you go away and you go to a new home somewhere else, and I think it is about, I don't know, being patient with ourselves and our mid twenties and and like not every decision. Right? Like I find like listening back to like interviews that I said. Well, not like normal people was coming out or things. It's like nothing we say now is actually, or has to be binary.
The one thing that I've or that, I feel like I have to be Binary is like our outlook on the world as human beings, you know, it's like what are your core values? The rest can fucking move and change as much as it wants. And I think it should. I think that's what it was. We were both trying to say.
Oh, that's what I'm trying to say is like, I'm figuring my self out and I'll like gonna try and start enjoying that process rather than being scared of us. I think and there's a sound bite right there, Joe. This is what I was thinking. Is that when I was earlier, when I was talking earlier about why normal people, why I felt so comforted by it. And when I said that I was like, that's so strange. Like I haven't said that out loud, but that's like really
from my gut. That's what I feel about it. And I was trying to kind of like as we've been talking about what I mean by that and I think you just hit the nail on the head saying that we just being patient with ourselves and I think that's what normal people was to me. A lot is about people fucking up.
Up and people learning from things and people just and I take such comfort in cinema and TV and things like portraying people being people and not being like these gods or these, they dream people that like never fuck up or no, make mistakes or never, like, learn from their mistakes will be Young and Reckless and learning like I think it just it really. Yeah, I felt so comforting. I felt I was like, yes, thank
you so much else. Like showing me that it's It's a just do what I want for a second and then slowly regret. It afterwards. Don't really actually because I learned from it totally. I don't know what I think.
Yeah, but if you like, what's different is like in a like in a way that is like both positive and negative is like we're in a position now where essentially we're having a child and we are talking about like Our opinions on things now as it like as of what day does, it's like 19th of November. These are our opinions now is like a 24 and a 25 year old but it's for like two to a certain extent.
This is for like public consumption and I suppose it's like we're how do you feel a bit like access? Like because I think I love that. I get to talk to another like like-minded creative person. But there's also the part of panic, in my like the ugly part of my brain. That's like Thank you for watching. Like, of course, think about what you're saying, like, a normal fucking human being, but I always kind of, like, protecting yourself like
basically, it's a question. How do you feel about, like, access to yourself? And your thought and your opinions? Where do you feel those lines blur? And what makes you anxious in? That regard is basically public being public facing and what not to do, what I think. I don't see enough. People speaking their mind, and it annoys me a little bit because I'm like, please, Just say what you think?
Just have unpopular opinions. And this is what I'm loving about this conversation is because I can really, I'm good. It's so open. What's going on here? And I think yeah, but to answer your question is so funny. I feel lots of different things is that I always have this anxiety in these interviews. I remember, I said something really awful. I'm trying to remember what it was to an interviewer and I could just see him scrub it down. I was like, oh no, I didn't mean
it that way. I didn't mean to insult. That's not. What do I do? Think? The Oscars is great. Brilliant, fantastic or something like that. And then I was attacked. She knows about it because that's what I feel and I might feel differently in a week, but put that down because I feel like, you know, besides yeah, and I really should apologize for that.
I just think it's, I don't know, it's which is me all know, definitely what they feel, but there always is that little, like, I'm gonna be part of your brain. So she agreed to put it that little, that little voice being like, be careful, like you're gonna insult, someone like not careful. People are gonna use this as their Sound by for you. That game, which is going to be a headline somewhere. And also, it doesn't feel like I'm saying this as somebody who actually deeply cares about.
Like, if I'm being honest, I deeply care what people think of me and like, part of that is like a problem. And part of that is just innately who I am. I want people to definitely from a working standpoint. It's like I always what, like, six I remember writing down and like, no to might like at the end of drama school is like, what does success look like to you?
And I remember thinking, like, success to me is like, not be like you can't be. Be to everyone's tastes like creatively, but I want I would love people to like conclusively. Assume that like, oh, whether he's your taste or not. He's a good actor and he's good. But what he does really like that, to me is what success looks like, but also it's an unhealthy kind of mindset. You know, it's like you can't I'm definitely people-pleasing.
I think that was like I came off social media last year in an attempt to kind of put a bit of control around that and be like I have this innately in me, but I don't need to like see what people think of me. All the fucking time and it's it's totally ego-driven and it's like, but also I think it's in, it's an important part of being an actor or maybe might disagree but I don't feel like we're doing it for ourselves.
Part of us is doing it because we in love doing it, but we're making things for people to see and View and talk about and with that comes a kind of dissection of you as a person and as an actor and it's like where those two things line up is, where I like that is the center point of my anxiety. Though the where those two things merge, like that's like that is. That's where that's where that is. The only part of my brain that I'm describing. I completely agree with you.
I agree that. I think it's not for yourself. It shouldn't be. I think it is for many people, but it's really, it's not, it's not for me. It's not for you. And I think it's, it's very giving it's very gonna. Oh, that's my intention. Anyway with it. Is it really is for other people? It's for the entertainment. It's a beautiful thing. So it's a move people and to make You will feel comforted in lockdown. You know, it's a good, it's a good Comfort them with trauma to
the traumatizing television. That's what you make them. Glad they're like, sucking on it, you know, but, no, I completely lie. Completely agree with you and I think that's a beautiful you mentality, but I do know what. I fucking hate social media as someone who's on social. I definitely don't believe it's like, it's me and I'm holding it and I do, I think it's fucking, it's just ego-driven.
It's all for you. I sell because you all, you're getting these like snow, but it's like, I feel like some people are able to navigate it. So well, write. Like some people being able to like, I'm not one of those people. I feel like half that part of their, I know, I just get fucking scared of it. I'm just like, okay. Well, this one person thinks this of me. Therefore, that person is represented as a representative of, like, 90% of the population.
Therefore, I am hated and it's like, I know it's what, when you like, boil it down, that's not true. But it's the I feel like to me, the loudest voice in the room as often. - and it definitely doesn't help my work or my life or like trying to adjust to a new version of reality, which I love. By the way.
It's like I love that. This is what our lives get to be. Now, we get to like make films and talk to other creative people and like being part of the world that I never never would be without the job that we get to do. So it's like, how do I make, how do I make my my dream? I'm more like All reality, I think is what the last year has been. It's like, how do I actually enjoy this thing happening to me? And if it's like, take myself away from the world a little bit.
I feel like that's where I'm kind of settling on at the moment. I think I think this is my purse to to not do anymore because I do feel like as you say there is just so many more negatives than positives. It's just not. Yeah, the loudest voice in the room, is the most - I feel like I just keep checking it as well.
I sort of, like, wake up from his Daydream under so scrolling through People, I don't know and I don't care about and it's just it's just wasting my energy my time and I just yeah, I think it's time. Yeah, but um, yeah. No. My mom bought me a book called the power to be the courage to be disliked and I haven't read it yet. And I think I need to courage to be disliked the courage to be just like something. And I think I should read it because I need more of that
courage. Do you like do you think you have that? You think you have like as it stands now? How do you feel about people? I'm so much better than I was. Was I really? And I think with that great just relaxation to, I mean say all these things that I said on this chart like that are probably going to offend a lot of people. It's so freeing. I kind of like it honestly, it's hilarious that we think we've been like we think that we've been like.
So we basically just talked about our own anxieties like we have if people are offended by this conversation. I feel like fuck that I know. What about it is that? That should be the biggest contribution to say, look, I have anxiety about social media. Me and everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. No, I need to read that book. I think I need more of it. I don't think you can have enough courage to be the site. My lordy. It's so nice to meet someone so like-minded. It's really nice.
It doesn't happen a lot to meet. It doesn't happen a lot. Really? Yeah, genuinely because I feel like such a like, so you're still in college, right? Like you, I that's crazy. You're doing a press tour for ya while I've no doubt is going to be an Incredible film, and you're in college, so that's so cool. Thank you. It's cool. It's hard. Because I'm realizing I'm not super and I know people say sometimes I'm not very smart and I'm like, hmm. It's like false modesty.
I really mean it. I'm not particularly. I'm not academic whatsoever. I'm doing psychology and it's just all statistics and I'm just realizing now. I really I just wrote an essay on the difference between emotional intelligence and academic conferences. Processes and stuff and so that again academic intelligence. Ohmic. So the difference between emotional intelligence and cognitive academic like good at exams good at sort of regurgitating information
basically retaining information. Yeah, and I'm absolutely terrible at exams and retaining information and remembering what people say in lectures and remembering how to do math. I just I can't do it. And I just think for me personally, I'd rather be So much more emotionally intelligent because I think it gets you. Well. I feel like it's way more useful for the job that you're so wonderful ass, you know, there's a big company like you're 56 times tables.
You're going to have to like blow smoke up your ass for a second. It's like you can't do what you did in the souvenir through like anything other than like emotional intelligence. Because yes, you're being put in kind of like organic situations to kind of help with the foam and process, but you've also got to kind of be a kind of got to A dramaturg in your own head while you're filming, which I think is so impressive. Like that's not, I didn't have to do that. A normal people.
I got to work with like the most incredible scripts that do a lot of the I suppose. It's just like you carry a different ways of the film in different places, and I definitely didn't have to be a drama taragan terms of any of those shooting processes. I got to just like, in vest in the writing and show up and try and Achieve as much as I could, or bring what I thought was required to the scenes. Where's your Just having the scene happen to you in real
time, which is like thrilling. And so glad that I got to talk to you a little bit about that. But I'm so interested in trying this like I've never, I've never worked in any other setting, then the improvisational sort of like instant way and I'd be so interested to work with amazing script written by an amazing writer, with a whip with words that aren't mine. Like that's to me is, is really moving.
I think. I really like to represent someone's character something from their mind and sort of, yeah. Isn't, I think that's really beautiful. And was there room for improvisation? Like, you're bringing your own kind of cutting, of course there was, but I mean, like, was there? Yeah, room for kind of molding in your projects there. I said, I wish I could talk. I know, I know, I know you can't do this one. That's one where. No, but there's one I think is
fair to say that. Like, it gives nothing away and nothing has been announced. But I wear. I'm spend a essentially the whole film with a or okay, the child. And I'm just trying to police what I can say and that Some that was so exciting because process kind of goes out the window here, just kind of shooting with Child hours and there's something thrilling about that because it does feel improvised and you're just kind of rolling with whatever your you're getting.
And that was so thrilling. And I process that I really enjoyed and it felt it felt super alive and wasn't kind of a lot of like deliberating or talking with seen. It was kind of like, let's just go in and start it and see where we end up. And I really enjoyed that, I That's what I'm looking for a little bit. Now is like not only like plethora of different colors for different characters. It's more.
So now like I'm looking at kind of the process of how directors want to work and seeing if that's something that I would enjoy. Basically. I think what we described is that we're just trying to figure out our lives and what we want from like the acting that we want to do, which is like exciting, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I just absolutely, I just feel like I'm so excited about meeting. More collaborations because I think that's a beautiful world.
Yeah means like equality in terms of the actors and the director and the writer of the producer, all these teamwork, rather than many experiences I've heard about, is you just are a puppet. And I think do oh, yes, stand there. Say it like this. Say faster. Say it slower. Exactly. And then it might as well be anyone. The told me a story the other day. It was like an experienced. Actor was inside her. I can't remember what I like, but I director went like, okay, you're going to stand.
Over here and before he'd even finish, the sentence. The actor was like, oh, this is going to be fucking shit. Like I can't wait to be ballsy enough to get past the point of like, hearing a director say that maybe at some point and trying to nurse them out of that decision like, you know, like trying to nurse them into a conversation about collaborating. Like I can't weirdly can't wait to get to the point where I just I'm like not a dickhead way
because oh no, this Is not fun. This is not filmmaking. This is not acting. I'd like to just not care that, I don't care. Yeah, but you know what, the next time? Hopefully, I can't wait for us to meet in person because maybe we'll meet, and be like, I did it. I did it. I like spoke up and I told each other to that, but I mean it. Let's do it together. Let's go on this journey together. I think we can because I think well, you're going to do, you're going to hit me, I do.
But I'll read that book and then it will maybe get me a headstone that the power to I just like but I'm definitely gonna read that. I'll send you a diver to make everybody. That's Endeavor. Let's make a promise here to Endeavor to make everybody hate us in a passionate way. When I think I'll get your safe. I'm like, I think you'll fail for I'm not sure. Like there was ever gonna dislike you ever. I think you Underestimate me, I think you might be underestimated. We'll see.
We'll see. Oh my God, I was so lovely chatting to you. I've like really enjoyed this, please let it be the first of many. I really mean that please. I guess your contact know for sure. Let's do it because I think we've got a lot more to talk about. Frasier. I mean it, thank you so much. And if you got a second right, my, my mom wants to meet you. Can she meet you? Oh, my God. Yes, and she joking, mama, please. I get to meet you immediately. She's nervous.
Are you coming in? Is it time for the fish on my account? It's time for you to meet. So now you're here in our house and the fish pie is nearly ready. I wish we could. I wish you could come and laugh about Donald to the describe, the like, family meeting of like your meeting. Yes. Well, yes sure. He's next door. Benjamin forgiving. I'm gonna bring him intimidate. Everybody in someone's now. Rosie come in. Come. Do you have any pets? I have two dogs. My dog. Jack is going blind though.
The Rosie's gonna come in. Yeah. Their Roost. And I'm gonna pop the most insisted on coming here in person and having some fish, pie myself. Where are you people? I'm in San Francisco, my partner bond to a show. I'm on chauffeur. So that's, that's what's that next on the cards for me. Very good. If I'm going to be actually in London next week for like 10 days. If you guys are like, well, funnily enough. We are coming down. Are we? Okay?
Actually do one of the things where I'll get like, can I get ya Amber honor? Yes, please. Thanks for listening. The a24 podcast is produced by us a 24 special. Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt and robot repair who composed our theme.