Hey, and welcome back to the a24 podcast. If you're anything like us, Nick Kroll and Jenny, slate will be forever associated with their Kroll Show characters, Liz and Liz the to publicist behind publicity. They've also been friends for almost 20 years and with Jenny's upcoming movie Marcel. The Shell was shoes on coming out in June. We jumped at the chance to Stage reunions. On the Pod. We hope you enjoy the episode. Here's Johnny and Nick.
Hi. Hi, I'm Jenny slate, and I'm Nick Kroll and we are talking for the 824 podcast to each other. Oh, we're supposed to talk to each other. Yeah, we're talking to each other. Don't just face the wall with the mic. Oh, I thought we were doing monologues. When was the last time we physically it's been it's like actually been years and it makes me feel really, really sad to say it. Yeah, and I think I know when it was I think but I'm not sure.
What do you think? It was going to take off my glasses and base? It's something that's right. Just like a year, like a little I remember that when you got my glasses I get Lasik like years ago. Yes. No, but then I got glasses because my vision is like getting worse again. Oh, but I kind of like it because I kind of missed wearing glasses and I wasn't ready to be. Yeah a person fake wearing glass.
I just say it you because it's just this feeling of oh, I guess old age like Israel that I'm like, I know it now. Now, like now, I see it. Not that I'm old but that I'm like, oh, because I need glasses now, too. And I've always thank you so much been like super 2020. Yeah. And like proud of it. I yeah, as if I did anything to do that know, but it says I'm like, are you at it? Like I don't I don't get cavities. Like there's people that don't
get a lot of Kevin people. I don't, I do, but people brag about that with their teeth, like, like I don't get cavities and you've been, like, I have 20/20 vision. I worked really hard on it. It's soaked. I mean, honestly, But something about not having a lid, then brings like a full mug in the car and it, like, kills me. Stresses you out. I'm and also that I'm like, you're gonna hurt yourself. Like your he drinks black coffee and in like a ceramic mug, it's like piping hot.
Do you just not? Does it feel things that I feel like fit into the cup holder? Yeah, not because I love to buy like, you know artisanal and because yeah, it's a mug it has a handle doesn't fit into the holder for most people's sodas. I don't know if we started rolling the sometimes the podcast, they'll sneakily start rolling just to get the, yeah, you get to get that early. Get those early, you know, real
moments. Oh my God, like, at the beginning of Krista, Tippets interview ever wasn't on being. She's like, she always asks, what will they ask people what their have for breakfast? And it's always like a monk who's like, I'm staying and yeah, I haven't eaten breakfast, but it turns out that monkey was just on an intermittent fasting among the monks like, I'm a fucking Fatiha. My body, I'm not eating in that I binge at night, or you know
what it is just to say. But I'm pretty sure, you know, that I hate this. It's like a professor, with dry mouth, who's like, yogurt on being is what I aspire to for this conversation. So we're clear because there's what she's always talking about and I don't listen to it. That often is really interesting. She's brilliant and incredibly beautiful. Did people? There's a lot of them? Yeah, that's funny. Well, it's funny. You know what? They say, a little, Jimmy,
little giggly. I mean, I'm offended that I'm, I like want to be on that show. Okay. Have you tried? Did you try to get on that? Yeah, and this is where you landed a 24 podcast. Do you have a podcast? That's a bad thing to ask? I don't. Okay. Okay, because I, you know, yeah. And I I don't know. I mean, I hate to pitch it to you right now. But this is it, which is a 24, get the rights to this. Then she everyone's fucking me. I don't have a podcast. I often times every like twice a year.
I'm like, I should have a podcast because I want more money. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't think I could do this when I could. I mean, I do it all the time, but there were years where we would do podcasts all the time. People. Yeah, but then it should I do honestly think it changed because now, like one person made like a butt load of money and everyone else is like, oh wait, hold on. Wait, your dear friend and former collaborator Joe Rogan, right?
You guys are not doing the podcast together. Another weird thing is no one can tell us apart. So it's like especially when you can't see us, it's like wait, who's talking to, you know, in terms of how they think and what they like is that is that Joe or is that little Joe AKA Jenny? But Bruno, both burnouts Little Joe would be a great rapping name for you. If you were, if you if there was a Divergent path, was there ever a minute. We're here we go. Was there ever a minute?
Where, where are you? Was it always. Did you always know it was going to be comedy acting writing? Yeah, but you know what? I think there was There was always a wish that I would just go to like who would it be like Sarandon territory, you know that like and maybe you experienced this too. Like I remember you used to have that joke about how like if you could trade being funny.
Hmm. For just being like a male bikini model or whatever, you know, like it was like this joke that I always felt so deeply that I still feel that way sometimes. I mean, I've moved through that right. Largely but like There are times where I mean, it's just funny like when you meet like really beautiful performers or whatever and they like want to make me the. I feel like they won't put it on you. I'll be like they want to make me laugh. I'm like, oh they want to be
funny. Yeah, and I'm like and I'm and yet I'm like, can I just see that shot again? Because I'm like, I think I look fucking like a gremlin in that picture. You know what I mean? Yeah, so I don't know if that's how but Sarandon you wanted to go straight to like like sexy 45 year-old. Like I can do anything a Actor I think so, I always like like the yeah, like the the territory of or like I loved Gwyneth Paltrow in sliding doors and a perfect murder.
It was always this like, yeah, I mean, you're just not going to be like a 58 blond woman. It's just not in the cards. But also I really like that thinking. I don't think you didn't. You can't think that way Jenny. Yeah. I have years to grow. You don't ever but gone blond blond. You know, what's so funny? Us as you'll know because you and I have known each other for four like, I mean, a decade and a half an hour, probably more. Yeah, there have been times when
I've gotten extreme hairdos. When I've been Restless or like, you know, had big feelings that I just couldn't admit. And I feel Restless right now because our house is too small and I said the other day, I think I should go platinum, and everyone was like, just renovate. Just grant me your kitchen. You like the fall. All Out The Fallout of platinum hair. Which is much more difficult than fully renovating your
house. Yeah, especially because and you know, you and I when we were just talking I don't know if they were recording us. We're talking about how you. I don't get a lot of cavities. Hmm. And for a while, I didn't need glasses. Now, I need them. Yeah, I haven't gotten them yet. I have like one gray hair that pops up and I like rip her out. Hmm. Not that, I'm not into it. I'm just like, sure either be a lot. Don't just be one as if as at the same spot.
Yes, same spot and I haven't. So I don't color my hair. But I'm like, why would I go platinum right before? It's about to happen, right? This is the last moments of my natural. Right? So like once you go gray, then just Platinum for the rest of your life. I'm fully. I mean my beard. As you can see, ya is great like just as so to go back a step and I feel like we should give people some context to us quickly. Okay, which is we've been friends for at least.
I moved to New York my New Year's resolution. In 2002 is to do an open mic. Oh jeez. Oh, it's so nice. It's been 20 years that I've been doing some versus started. This you were in college. You came to knew you were in college at Columbia. That's right. And then when did you come to like? When did you start performing downtown or like performing out in the world? Right? So game lead man, and I graduated from college in 2004 and I think around 2005.
He was like, I think he was kind of like I think I'm going to try stand-up and I was like, I'm not because I didn't think that it was very cool. And I didn't know about like the alternative scene or whatever, that what I mean. Now, it's not called that anymore. But I was like, I just thought of like, Andrew Dice Clay be like a guy in the leather jacket.
Yeah, and I just was like, I don't get how I would fit in there and then he brought me to the show called invite them up, which is also where I met you, which was a show at a place called rififi, which I believe is now, like a Jeanne's store Buffalo Exchange. As of last like a second hand always, it might have been moved off of that. But go ahead. Yeah. It was a like a rundown bar like a bar. Yeah. With a black box theater in it. And then I honestly believe behind that was like kind of a
porno store, right? I liked, I don't know. But I do feel like that you called pornos. No because that's you have to call it. Now put not porn because porno Orange from the internet pornos VHS. Okay. Great. Yeah, I like that too. Section II, it's only I say that but I like I like it. Yeah, I mean I would be it makes you think of VHS.
Yeah. And like actors in that Medium rather than hmm, you know things without a plot you want to plot even in your I don't just need to see like someone's clit. I want to know that someone, you know was delivering anything. Yeah. A pizza. Always. Right that they say, I don't know or like a clip. Clit massager your clip. Massage here like mine. If oopsies. I fuck you were something. That's what I used to be.
But anyway, so that's what that was on, Wednesday night was the best show called invite them up. Hosted by, Bobby Tisdale and Eugene. Mirman, we watch that show a lot, and I was like, oh wait, stand up is completely different. Yeah, and then I wanted to do it. And so we started to like kind of. We did a 30 second, 30 seconds about, you got that 30 seconds of calm that coveted, 30 seconds of Comedy Spot. Yeah, and you are, you were there we would hang out all the time.
Yeah, and that's when I Started to do stand-up. And I realized that like stand-up could actually be just talking. Yes, takes a little while to figure that out. Yeah, so that's like, seventh, that's 17 years ago. Probably at least a, we meet each other. Yeah, we and then we, you know, immediately liked each other's comedy became friends, and then and then I think probably started actually working together on Kroll Show. Did we worked?
We do we We yeah, I mean so you were on Best Week Ever, right? And gave, and I like, really funny. Yeah, we really wanted to be on it and you were like the star of it. I mean, we felt like you and Jesse Klein. Mmm. It's very nice of you to say. Well, you were. And like, I'm just going to put my coffee down. Sorry, Hmm. This is a spill it. This coffee is really am I just took a risk, but so we really
wanted to be on that. That's what I remember you being on, but then it seemed like you, you really started to get a lot of jobs you. Like on a lot of commercials. Hmm, you seemed really smooth at it. Like you were really good at it because I remember like finally getting a Cascade commercial. Yeah, figure out how to use the the Pod to put in the dishwasher and like they gave me extensions and I was like, I was but anyway, that makes me feel that makes me itch thinking about that.
Yeah. Yeah. It was so hard commercials are so hard because you actually have to be normal. You've to be normal and also like I don't know, I it's on. It's nice. You to say that because my first commercials, like I were like 30 seconds, straight to camera monologues, and I couldn't memorize my lines and I was freezing up and like Crews were waiting for me. If you're going first. Yeah, it really takes her self-esteem down to oh, no, this is this is what I thought would happen if I failed.
Yeah. And and it and then and and you really believe like, oh, this is the end. I'll never work again. Yeah, and it you're on the line. It could be, you know what I mean? Like it's like now looking back, but A, what? I will say this. It seems like a digression, but it's not. I knew that we were. I knew that we were going to do this and I was like, I've I've I've trouble watching my own work.
I you know that I don't I just don't like it and it can really hinder how I do the next thing I do. Yeah, and I was like, it's weird that I've never really fully watched Liz and Liz and Kroll Show because so many people love it. Yeah, and the other night. I just sat down and watched like most of the publicity's and I Was like in tears. It's like yeah, I was in tears not just because like I just genuinely loved it.
Yeah, but because and it's almost hard to talk about it without getting emotional, but I've been fired by us now and you gave me a job. Hmm. And oh God. I'm so like this right now, but also and you. Okay good, but like and also were both parents. I don't know if your baby sleeps but mine likes truly loves to party all night long and but I just feel like a lot. As I've tried to say this
throughout the years. I've never articulated it and I almost wrote you a letter this morning, but I'm like, oh, that's so mean you're going to be like but so Jenny wrote me a letter so I won't but it was like you gave me a job. I had been fired by us until I was. So speaking of like you think it's over for that and that's legit. You're like get fired by a cell that feels like there's a Cascade commercial.
That doesn't go well and you gave me this job and I felt like I was kind of like damaged goods, although that's neither here nor there. Knows if that was how I was perceived, but I'm walk. I was like watching Liz and Liz and I was like, all this stuff is so much funnier than anything they were doing on SNL or that I ever got to do. You gave me a gigantic chance? You completely, let me run. Hmm. You never hindered me.
It was the coolest job and I was watching it and I only, I know that every take you and I are about to start laughing and I can't even believe they edited that show together. Because we were always laughing. Yeah, and it just was a huge gift. Well, I love that show and it was so good. It was I mean, I like the thread like this. I'd like to think so, but I don't feel that way but ironically about weirdly.
I mean, I love it and I love. So thank you to go back to I did I had the schedule Kroll Show. And yeah, the full story is that I had a I was dating a woman who I was supposed to do publicity with right and she broke up with me. Well, not even she had her most she, oh my God, it's so crazy. But we were supposed to do that together and then and then she wouldn't come back to shoot my pilot and I was like, maybe this isn't the best thing about our relationship and then.
So then I was hadn't broken up and she was like, I don't wanna you were soon as I can. Come, I can't come back to shoot your pilot. And I was like my rap that pilot and went to visit her and then she broke up with me foreshadowing. Yeah, but it was in so many ways such a blessing because and the the biggest one was that we got to do that together and I think being a parent. I mean, I always have been a crier but like being a parent just makes you like cry, I cry all the time.
So I think about doing that, doing that with you and doing and I knew that you would just end by the way, your hair on the pilot of Kroll Show is kind of blob because I had been fired. You got fired on fire. So you're back. You weren't platinum. Blond disgusting likes and it's actually cool and it's and it's still I mean again, it's the it's the first one is the pilot was the Mitch hurwitz plays. A the creator of Arrested Development plays a guy who
wants it and it's a weed. It's a bunch of dogs and bikinis and cupcakes and vicky864 cancer. Yeah, and I'm Katie Cupcakes for, I can't even anyway, and then we did three seasons of that and you played a number of characters on the show, but publicity I get more almost almost more than anything. I get Reflections on publicity of how much people love it. Yeah.
Yeah. The comedy is actually just So I mean I just felt I don't think I actually have a ton of regrets but I felt regret that I did not let myself. Feel how cool that was at the time. Like not like I stopped myself, but I was so ashamed of getting fired from SNL and I did have a little bit of that. Like I want to be a movie star on him. Yeah. I didn't really appreciate.
She ate how like Renegade that show was and that like, you know, now I understand that when you feel he's in the moment and your output is just like turbo, like you're just a massive amount of output and you're laughing and you can feel velocity in your performance, which I definitely feel in stand up. But that like that means that it's, it's a living treasure. And like, now I get it and I can watch it and be like, oh, This is really cool.
And we did actually, I think lay groundwork for something. I hope so. I mean I think about it. I was just trying to think of like what the analogy would be. It's like and I'm not I'm not much of a tennis player at all.
But it's like imagine you and your friend could just hit the ball as hard as you want back and forth like just like like and that's what it felt like doing that show specifically with you and and the other Partnerships are was like Mulaney or Chelsea Peretti or whoever Jon Daly. There was just this feeling of like total. Yeah, and it was because of the format to is like it was reality TV. So there was a real looseness to how it was structured for us to be able to do whatever we
wanted. Yeah, and I mean again, I mean, I you're like doing that with u and W and being able to perform with you and watching you perform was is like, truly electric like your, your performance is electric. So we do that. Yeah. And And we we do a couple movies together. I think both at a time when both of us were like it still was like it's such an interesting thing. There are not many people who I have feel.
There. Are there people who you share a career trajectories with and somewhere other. But there's also this feeling of like, like you're, you're from Kroll Show, you're an amazingly funny. So if so funny, electrically funny, but also a really good actor. And so there's this feeling.
If you feel like you can act that like, Like comedians, I think a lot of comic actors and comedians go through this period where they're like, I also want everyone to know that I can really act and I'm a good actor and then I can be in serious stuff as well. Yeah, I think that relates to the first thing you asked, which is like, you know, did was it always comedy for you? Because there is something
about. Now, I understand that being taken seriously, just means understanding what I like to do. And, and having like, the freedom and power to do it and the access to Do it, but it used to be like hitting these odds standards. Yeah, you know, that, that ended up themselves being brutal or like kind of abusive towards myself. But but there is that moment I think for a lot of comedians where it's like, but I also can do like, what Mary Tyler Moore did right, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, and I don't think that instinct is wrong. No, it's not a bad thing to to want to be able like I want to do everything. A thing, you know what I mean, but I do think in the back of it at least in my head. It was always like why do comedy? Because I love doing common. It always want to be funny and entertaining but also like I do like it's like I want to win an Oscar for best actor. Right. Right.
Right now and you're like it's stuck in your head that that's like part of it which I think leads partly into the real. The reason we're here which is which is your the movie that you have coming out through a 24 called Marcel the Shell. The shoes on is that the full title?
That is the full title which to me is such a beautiful encapsulation of what you do and I'll talk about Dean in the hole, the larger picture of it all but like of what you do which is to be super funny and specific in your humor, but then incredibly emotional incredibly just super beautiful resonant vulnerable. It's inside of it. So it's, it is this beautiful and, and I think Marcel. What starts? What 10 years, 12 years ago. When does it come out? Yeah, it.
Yeah, we made it in August of 2010. Wow. Okay, so that comes out. You, you put it on. You put on YouTube or Vimeo, Vimeos on Vimeo and everyone finds it and falls in love with it. Yeah, which was weird. Yeah, it for, I mean, at least for me at I think Dean's always been better at the internet in general, like comfortable with it. Yeah, I didn't understand that capacity in general. Like, I didn't understand that, that could even happen. Yeah.
At all. And I wasn't, I guess very interested in it and I can't even also think, I don't know. That I knew an example of like, a quote unquote viral hit. Yeah, at that time. Well, that it was I mean there was some version of that but that was was a viral hit. It was a viral hit. Hit. Yeah, and we like, watched it happen like throughout the day. Wow. Yeah, and we were like look like I remember and you remember that apartment that I used to have an in? Brooklyn.
Did you ever go to any parties there? It was a tiny but very beautiful apartment. I remember like kind of standing in there being like well, we're at 800. That's crazy. We're at 800 and then then a big leap like being at like 38 thousand by maybe the end of that. Or the end of the next day and then it like going crazy million. Yeah. Yeah, which is its and it will because there had been nothing like it. So it there been nothing like it and I just try to burp off off mic.
Well, did you tell me? Yeah, and and then, and then, I remember many that is so it's just So, you know what it is. It's always like so cousin E. Yeah, Yeah cousin. Yeah, it's cousin he's stuff. But yeah. You burped, I beside you and I didn't even get it out. That was the bomber. Is it? Like it's like caught up on my side. Caught up right around the Adam's apples bottleneck. That's so painful. Yeah, so, but so then. And then I remember, I don't know how many years ago.
This was that you guys had gotten like it was like they want to we're going to make a movie of this but it's been Did the actual beginning of, I mean, it's been so long so long. Yeah, so like we Dean and I moved out to LA in 2012 and we were kind of, we were like taking meetings with bigs with like Studios and also everything was different. Then. Yes, there was no Netflix. Making anything but DVDs to your physical. Mailbox. Yes, Amazon was still think it
was a paper mill. Thing was a big mistake for them to get off of that stream. Yeah, I also like I think I still have a subscription for DVDs in it and Incredibly scratched copy of being there somewhere in my house, just like like, and I've never returned it. Oh my god. I think I'm still paying for the DVD subscription and of Netflix. I I think I am too, but we like none of those meetings made sense. They all really smacked of like selling out like it was Like
yeah, Marcel's so great. What if you paired him with? Literally like a just a tall white guy who probably wasn't even in discussion. Like they were throwing out names like about Ryan Reynolds. Jason Segel. We were like, did you ask them? Like, they're just like tall and funny but like, did you ask them? Yeah, you know, this is like, feels like you guys are. There's back-channel here, like, nobody talk to them, right? So there's the interest from. Have you heard of Jenny's
ladies? Like, no Marcin, you don't worry. All the shows interest in collaborating with you on something Ryan. We could have told him that you were interested in as well. Yeah, and then the agents are like, I fucking told her. What am I gonna do now? But anyway, so no, those didn't work for us. I don't know if any of that happened actually, but but, but we did take those meetings. We were like, Marcel with this person.
We were like, but why not Marcel just like alone in the house and they were like, that's not anything. And we were like, well, it's actually like the hole. Yeah, actually. And you know, I'm I'm really there was never a moment where we were like, we should change it. It just was very clear.
Yeah, it's like I would just rather I would rather this be on the internet as it was, then it be ruined by by somebody who never could have made it. Yeah, you just have to try to keep working with people who, at least, understand how to hold up. What was originally Lie there, I think. Yeah, and so, we like waited a long time. Then Liz home, who produced Obvious, Child and landline, and my special stage fright. I was like, Liz, can you help us produce this?
And find someone who can who can give us money to not change it but just to expand it. And she did, she found the people at sinner each who are incredible, incredible collaborators and and financed our film and gave You know, Final Cut and like, yeah, all the stuff that you never get. They gave us that which is kind of the only way that this movie could be what it is. Yeah, and like, that's why I mean, sitting here doing an a 24 podcast.
I also would like to know more about how everything everywhere all at once got me. Because that film also is like pretty. Yeah, it's just pretty, it doesn't have a lot of boundaries or it doesn't, it doesn't it say takes every risk, and we were allowed to do that with more. All to. So anyway that happened around. I want to say like 2013 maybe 2014. I remember you being like I think Liz helped us find something that and yeah. Yeah, and I mean we took a big
round of meetings. None of them worked. And then we finally found sinner each and they really agreed to finance our film off of an a treatment and to let us improvise. Mmm, hours, and hours and hours. Is of audio like 100 hours of audio, I want to say, I might be wrong. Maybe less. Yeah, sure, but that makes sense. And then and then you start to put together the pieces.
But I mean, it's such a I mean I had obviously seen the shorts and I have an and your the book that you guys did and and and I've known you and Dean forever and and in the but the film is like so much. It's exactly what I want.
One who's seen the shorts? And even if you haven't doesn't matter, if you seen the church or not, even it's such a, it's exactly the heightening scope and and emotional heightening that you, that you that you would want from it, you know, it is such a because it's like, you know, it's supposed to be really small, but then, but, but when you make a film of something that has to be a bigger small, it does have to be a big or small as they always say, but it's so, So in the end, so you
guys sort of started to figure out the story and and put it all together. I mean, it's I can't even. And then you who's the, you guys had a the stop-motion house that you guys work with? We worked with the chiodo brothers. Yeah, who did like the, you know, they did like the opening sequence to Pee-wee's Playhouse. Uh-huh. They're really like they're, they're really like old-school animators. Yeah, and and then our animation director was Kiersten lat.
Or hmm, and she is incredible. She's incredible. I mean, even I'm now I've seen Marcel incompletion, I think for time. Yeah. And what I realized the last time is like, obviously, because I am so, like, fused with Marcel, sometimes I watch it and I forget that he's not improvising his body movements, right? And that a person who's not him had to be like here's how to make it look like he is. Is literally having a physical form in a moment.
That's existing and none of it is, you know, none of it is. None of it can happen. Unless somebody else does. Those tiny details wasn't Kirsten's Incredibles eyelids. Everybody's yeah. Like his eyelids and Nana Connie's Island. I mean, it's just like the I like having done obviously animation, but I'm can't say that I'm like responsible for every, you know, moment and big mouth and all that stuff, but I but seeing It's like knowing
what expressive eyes, what? And and it's this crazy thing because I know it's like you only have one eye. Yeah, and you got a line of a mouth. Yeah, like there's no, I there's so many things that lead to good acting and animation that you guys sort of don't allow yourself to have it is and then she's able to. They're the team is able to pull out these crazy emotional
performances. From. Yeah, from very few elements and bodies that are stiff, you know, and like Marcel's physicality, like his shell, doesn't like move. Yeah, you know, and yeah, his shoes walk but there's not, you know, like a little bungee cord or something there. So, a couple, I mean, I wrote down notes and I'm not going to pull them out, but I because I buddy, even though I want you but like, like so there's mom if you want to, it's not cheating. It's not cheating.
So, there's a moment. I mean, it's throughout the film, and This is not a of this doesn't ruin the plot for everybody. But Marcel when he gets in plans to gets huge fan. Yes, big fat does under Rooney. Yeah, to travel around his house Marcel is a tiny Shell with Shoes On and to get around his house. Sometimes he walks on walls and he steps in Honey to do that. Yeah, like where does where do those? I'd like how does that stuff? Come to be?
Like, where does that come from? Well, that one I think specifically came from Nick Paley who is Our third writer and, you know, Dean and I we there was a very complex process to like, making this movie. Generally. It's not just like a sitting down and and improvising but many rounds of it and then Nick and Dean going off together and being like, okay, the stories coming together. We had an idea, but it changed a lot.
And within each round of improvising they would get together and start to gather The Improv into a script. And then be like Okay, there are there like these moments? We need to sharpen it. We need Marcel to say this and they would like bring me back the line. And then I kind of like say something different or say, you know, like it just kept being open. But in between it would be like these other discussions of like
how does Marcel even live? Like what how does he do is life and there were just kind of be these like like long lists from people. I mean kind of like we started in the original Short being like guess how I do this. Yeah, you know and that That was like a game built into how you see him. Yeah, but Nick Paley, I believe
came up with the honey. I mean, there's so many great like Swiss Family Robinson. Yeah, totally things throughout like when you see this sets built out and you see like how he like gets oranges or how he like all that stuff. It's so it's so fun and it's like I want to say Whimsical but it's actually the opposite of whimsical. It's like utilitarian and yeah, Away, yeah, you like his, you're like there's nothing Whimsical about how do you get aren't if
you're a tiny show. How do you get oranges out of the top of a tree? Yeah. Oh, they're Ginkgo berries. Oh, they're Ginkgo Barry. Yeah, they just look like oranges I guess next to him because he's so small. Yes, but that's so fun. There was a there there, there was a discarded plot line where Marcel is trying to get his grandmother's memory to sharpen because he reads that ginkgo biloba. Yeah. Yeah, you say it can go build a little bit. Is good for your memory?
And so there's like, yeah, there was a, the film kind of was like, it would just had so many different versions. Some of, which were like, they're barely surviving, you know, and right, we're like we tried to figure out, like, what level of emergency is interesting to us to show. And at the very start of the film, like Marcel says, I'm not trying to just like survive. I'm trying to have like a good
life on a daily. Asus and, and, and so, like he is on an adventure, you can totally say that. But also it's real and there's real loss and it's cute, but it, but its necessary. Yeah, it's I mean, that's what you guys have done beautifully. And it is like, fused this idea of like whatever the, you know, whatever movie seems we seem to have to make which, like, some sort of hero's journey, you
know. Yeah, but it feels so grounded and and frankly human inside of Like what that journey is and how he's going about it. You're the I don't want to spoil anything. But like when he gets rid of the breast implants, when he gets, this isn't me? This isn't me? And I hate these because longer Rooney's. So crazy, it is. I found the end. I found this stuff around him and wanting to protect his grandmother. Really interesting. Yeah, where's what does that
come from? Well for me and I can only say for me because Nana Connie that character although my own grandmother as you know, his name, Nana Connie. Yes, and there's a large element to this film. That is what you would call Auto fiction and Dean is named Dean. And it's I think that when there's only one other person who remembers the beauty of your past because they were there.
Hmm. And there's nobody left who remembers it and they're starting to go into old age and they're starting to see things differently and have different capabilities and lose their strength in mind and body. You know, you can cloak it in like I'm just caring for them. But there's also a desperation of like, please don't please don't leave me as the only person who remembers what
happened. Sure because I don't know how to hold it and still be light on my feet and need to be light on my feet in order to be myself and live. But if I have to hold the truth of the way, everything went down and I still don't have a way to put it to rest. I just don't know what will become of me. And what Marcel has to learn through? His grandmother is like he's he's hiding behind that care.
Yeah, and he's hiding within that act because he's afraid that what will come next will be less than what he already has right now, which is, you know, he already lives with loss. Yeah, but but yeah, I mean, you know, he has to move through that and that sounds really heavy, but that's always been the weird thing about me and Marcel. Is that like, I I just like to be Marcel because he's less, he's I think he's like more capable than I am. Hmm, you know. Yeah, he's more in.
He's got more Ingenuity. Or is it like he's stronger. Like what is it? What is it? That you feel? I think, I think, I mean, you know, if everything is like to scale, he's a like physically stronger individual than I am and he's more industrious. Hmm. He's just he's way more industrious and and rugged I am but also like he has less of he has, like less interference from his own psyche. Mmm. And so, he just goes direct and
he is often times. Like, he appears innocent to us, because he's so unaware of how he comes off. Right? And I'm a performer. So, I am aware of how I come off. Yeah, but I found inside of this, there are these much more like Especially like around caring for his grandmother or whatever. Like there's he he really is. It gets a little hard. Yeah, he does.
He's like he's sort of is like no, we're not doing that like and it's like, you know way that's very sure and forthright about it, even though he's clearly struggling to figure out what he's supposed to do. Yeah, Marcel's attitude when he has attitude like that moment where he's like, I don't have enough time in my day and now she has attitude and like I don't even like that. That's just how I sound when I'm
angry. Yeah, and I I mean like I think Dean and I both use this film in the ways that sometimes you use your own art to just allow parts of yourself that you don't love to be repurposed into something that feels better. And that's that for me, for sure. And I like that Marcel he does, you know, like the cliche version of him would be like he does just hop into adventures and he's like so small, but he's down to do it like, you know,
and actually that's not his way. No, he really doesn't want to be. He really sees a way in, which his life could just be a lot worse and he's afraid and he's like, he's like rigid in that. Well, I mean, it's mean. It's when you think about when you when when everybody here listening to this podcast sees the movie you'll understand. Why, right? I guess.
I like maybe this is boring for people know, it's I mean, it's to me, it's very interesting and I think people it's One of these things, you it, defies defies explanation. You really just have to see it. And it's really, it's very special. Don't you just feel like a lot of the work you've made. You got in just under the wire before people started to say like we just don't get what we just can't figure out how this goes into the algorithm or something. Now, with Marcel coming out.
I'm so aware that like, there's so many ways that this movie, never would have gotten made, and it's completely untampered with it. Like it's really really what we wanted it to be and I'm just like, I don't know. I just don't know that that would happen. Now. I know but the truth is, it did it did and so I'm like, really, really enjoy. And that's what's and I mean, going back to the beginning of this like of like needing glasses are being like, oh,
we're we're not beginning. We're not in the beginning of this thing of our careers, are our lives at all. And so you begin to have a Little more awareness and hopefully inside of that gratitude that you're like, oh we get to do this and we got it in Under The Wire. Yeah, and and and there's another side of that thing. Can be like the Panic of like does wait does that mean I won't be able to keep doing this stuff for sure.
I mean in a weird way I am not a morbid person nor do I almost ever, think about death suffering a lot. I'm like, oh my God. I really don't want to break my ankle and like have a cast and have my pants like be hard to put on like that but But I do feel this feeling now, especially since like, I have a daughter and I I'm only going to have one baby. So I'm like, oh my God, everyday, every moment. She gets older. I'm like, oh no, she's getting bigger.
I mean, like I want her to but also don't and there's like, wow, she's going to be big one day and all of this that I'm like it. I have a normal. I think healthy feeling of like, I don't know. I don't know. When the next thing I'm going to make is, I don't know. And so Like I wish like when Obvious Child came out that I had enjoyed it a little bit more. I definitely enjoyed it and we like had a really fun, press tour. But I was also caught up in other stuff.
Yeah, you know like cheaper vanities that that really impeded me on a daily basis. Yeah, and I also don't know I was like a much younger woman then sure but now I feel really free to enjoy myself. Italy, because I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't know when I'll ever if I'll ever make anything like this again or be Marcel in performance, you know, uh-huh. Like I can be him. I am him to myself a lot worse. I talk to the baby in that voice. You do.
Oh, yeah, and she does love it. Yeah, I bet she loves like Ave Maria in that voice for example, like singing in that boys. Love it. Yeah. It's easier for me to sing and character than it is as myself. Me, too. Me, too. Yeah, sing a beautiful song. What is the song that Marcel sings in its Peaceful Easy Feeling by The Eagles? Wait, so do you have the rights to an eagle song? Yeah, and you know what? What if I just left, aren't you gonna guess that's what a great podcast.
So I think like Dean would be fine with me telling the story. But so it was like 2 a.m. And I couldn't sleep and I guess I I do like the eagles a lot. Weirdly not exactly my style like classic rock, but I like Story songs and he's like and don't you call Stereo Steely Dan story song, Billy Joel Billy, Joel. Stories. Yeah, he likes his story story. Thanks, right. And I like them too. And I made a voice recording. Excuse me. I made a voice recording of that
song. I'd like two in the morning and sent it to Dean and was like, is this anything. And you know at the time he and I were like we were like at the we decided to get divorced and we were both dating other people. We were, you know, there was like peace over that but it was like very Saying to us about how to have like a friendship while it also collaborate on thing that you built together. Yeah, but we don't know.
I mean we did have we were like, you know just still in touch a lot and just trying to push through that. And so anyway, in like I sent it to him and he was like, oh my God, you're killing me. This is like, what is this for? This has to be something and we just we were like it has to be something. I love hearing Marcel sing that song. And, and we did end up.
We just recorded it one time. I think Dean has the footage of it. Like, we recorded it outside in a backyard and we were like, hopefully the Eagles will let us have this song because it's kind of like in the movie now, but because it's so fascinating here because like it's getting a song in a movie or show is really hard. Yeah. Really hard. And there's publishing, then there's performed all that stuff. And it's can be expensive.
It's to me very funny that you went to historically, the most litigious band in. I didn't know that they're like, they have sued each other each other. So many times that it's so funny. But what it's a testament to the project, the film and your voice that they would sign off on that. It's really nice. I mean, in credit like yeah, like I didn't know that. Oh my God, they they It's the
most. I don't know if it's on their greatest hits, but it's like the biggest selling album of all time that album sometimes my view of myself from outside of myself as like, just a fool skipping over like lava pools without realizing like the terrain in any way, like I'm just like put this song in the movie Bobby do but even the popping that if that's the way things happen and you should go on floor is lava. I mean if you watch that edge,
what's that? There's a show on Netflix where the thing is like floor is lava and it's like you have to like jump from thing. The thing, or you get like caught in like lava. What's the lava though? It's lava. No, but I don't think it's really hot magma. But but if you squirted some diarrhea in there, yeah. No, I don't want to go on that, but I did hear that Ina Garten has a show now where she like lets people come to her house in the Hamptons and cooks for them.
And you like to do that. Yeah, I would just to say on a microphone literally that will go into outer space. Like could I because I love her. Well, let's get that going. Get Jenny slate on the line and Garden Show. Let's do that. Then we got to manifest. We got but to manifest so. So then, but I do love singing that voice. Just it's beautiful. And it's, and it makes perfect sense. I get it. I get it that leads. I guess, who you've been making that movie forever?
And then I'll you, and I have not physically seen each other in a really long time. Yeah. And in that time, you gave birth to a baby. Yeah. And My kamath. I became a father. Yeah, a month apart. We're like a month apart and our kids are. And how are you? How you doing? I think of doing great, you know, what's weird. I mean as you as you know, I didn't think I didn't really know that I would ever have kids.
It wasn't for me. I just didn't think I did and I didn't know how that would take your into my life. Yeah, and certainly was never like some people have that is like, they're driving thing like, Will not be fully realized unless I enter Parenthood and I truly love having a baby like, I'm really tired. Yeah, I've never experienced this. Yeah.
Level of fatigue. Yeah, but I've never been more happier more like secure or healthy in my life, and I just, I'm glad I had a baby at 39 because I know that if I'd Had a baby at 30 that I would have for babies. Yeah, I get now we get it. You'd get addicted to it.
Yeah, because and I don't know if you feel this way, but it's like, you know, you when you have a baby, you have to figure out what it actually means to healthily love someone and not, like, be obsessed with them or hope you get something from them, or be codependent with them, or whatever, all of the different iterations. I have thought were love before, but like, how do you truly like, nurture? They're like in their well-being.
That's like the quote, from a bell hooks book that I read two summers ago that I'm like, oh, oh, okay. Like to love someone means to nurture their spiritual well-being. So what is that? And like, what's the difference between controlling them and caring for them? Mmm, and also that like, you're allowed to love a baby Infinity. Like you, it's never like too much. And you know, it's sure but but I would as your bring it all up. I'm like, huh? Cause I'm like, I am kind of obsessed with him.
So like you are this Infinity love which I understand. I'm like, oh am I? Am I fucking him up by Mike? Just constantly be like, you're so beautiful. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, there are other things like, I mean, do you feel like that? Do you like? What's your, what's your big take? This is sort of several, you're saying, but I, but it's like it's very weird. When you see an expression or something to see something that you've only felt interior.
Yeah, in an exterior form, uh-huh, which is narcissistic. Ultimately. I know that I'm Saying I I see myself, but it's this weird thing where you're like, oh this is half me and have someone else. And then it's also its own entity entirely and and like, and I think that's the great challenge of Parenthood is, you're like, you're like, oh I see this thing about myself that I don't like, or this thing that I like too much about myself or this thing that I see about my spouse.
That I like, or yeah, and, and, and it's like, it's just just, it's, it's so Wild on I haven't even been able to fully formulate my thoughts on all of it. Because so often times when I'm inside of something. I can't quite pull out to see what what it is that's happening and I feel like with him right now. I'm like, all I can feel is like, I'm just watching a being take shape. Yeah, and I have some control over that because I'm the parent one of the parents.
But also there is this thing of like they have come out with an s. Since yeah, they do they really do and it's fucking wild but it, I feel. Yeah, I think I just, I feel like a level of, there's just some, it's just this other love that you have never experienced sounds so cliche, but it is, you're like, oh, there's just this love that. I've never experienced before. The yeah. Is this access? This opens this door to this whole other? This whole other house that I've never been in.
Yeah, a lot of stuff rolls off my back now. Hmm. Because there is a Love in my family between me and Ben and Ida and and I also think that's why stand-up feels different for me. Yeah, like I got on stage and I mean, I think I've always, you know, used what's happening in my life to make comedy. And that's also what Marcel is for sure, but that I was like, trying to do stand-up about what was happening right now, and I was like, but I missed you years.
I missed two years and I can't like be up there without talking about what happened before. And one of the longer like I did, I was able to get like a half an hour at our set Irish show at Largo a couple weeks ago and I was like, oh, all I have to do is tell the truth in the way that I tell it whatever, you know, but like oh like I've always known that and that's kind of been like my what my guarantee or whatever. Like when you're watching me. I'm trying to tell the truth.
Yeah, but now I'm like, oh literally, actually that is all there is that it feels like so much relief. How are you doing? Figuring out what to share about your child about your Merit? Like, how do you, where does that? How are you navigating that? I'm not talking about Ida a lot because I just don't feel like she can say yes or no to that. I mean, she literally cannot say yes or no, so I don't talk about that.
But, you know, I I'm talking about like meeting Ben and That like, although I mean when we, when we got married, I like read to him from my journal of the that I had like was writing in the weekend that we met and I hadn't remembered this. But I looked back in it after we got engaged to see like what were my first impressions of him? And that that weekend I had written like this is such a weird thing for me to write but I and like, maybe I'm just being
so weird about a stranger. But I actually, I feel that if I could marry him, I would have the type of life. I would want to have. Wow, and that like, I actually think he might be, I think he might be a person that I and my own taste think is like living true beauty. Mmm, and I did feel that way. But then like I'm saying in my stand-up like we tried to get together and it like didn't work out. It didn't work out at first and like and and we were both like it was bad timing.
Yeah, and so I'm talking about that but but from my perspective and like, You know, wanting to be respectful of him and so, I always ask him. Yeah, but it is interesting, and I can feel the weight of a liar, cover up, or whatever.
If I just go on stage and say, like the funny, I met my husband and like, you know, I I knew he was going to be my husband right away because actually I wanted him to be but like he didn't want to I mean, that's a it's a very yeah, I'm my because I'm been touring Aaron and I started touring before the pandemic and was like, I had my our ready to go and then yeah the pandemic happen and then now I'm still like wrapping it up to like get
ready to shoot as a special and and it is interesting now with like, you know, because I've been time at the last couple years. It's like the tour is called like middle-aged boy, right? Like so like in my manner a bully and then like I got married and had a child. You're like, oh, I'm a man. I'm a boy. I'm a boy. I'm gonna go nuts.
I'm a boy, man. But no, I'm a, I'm a man and I know I'm a man, so, but it is this thing of like in talking as your time at, like a being like, Oh, I'm going to tell the story and then but involves Lily and I'm like, and it is like, hey, can I talk about this? How? Yeah. And like birth and stuff like that and she was sort of like you can talk about if you don't make some like bullshit, trivializing joke about it.
That's for sure. And I was like, that's and that Force. Me to find some more interesting truths to it. That I think, I think are I'm some super glad. I mean beyond the fact that it's like, it's I think decent to do with your partner to be like, hey, I do this thing where I talk about our lives, so that's not entirely fair to you. So you get to weigh in on that. Yeah. I really, really get in a pissy mood about people who think that their art doesn't touch them.
Life. Yeah, I mean maybe some people it doesn't, you know, like whatever like if you're a super method actor and you just do that and everyone else has to deal with it or something like that. Seems really hard and the same for comedians. Like, I think I was never very aggressive about this, but I sort of used to feel like if I want to talk about it, like I should be able to talk about it because I'm not a mean person. And I'm not going to like, dress anyone down and now I really
don't feel that way. Yeah. I feel like, you know, if what I'm going to talk about on stage. I have to understand that whatever power I get, you know, like from, you know, people laughing because I'm being funny or whatever like that has to still, that can't be at the price of my partner's experience or self-respect or the size of the person that they are.
Yeah, you know, unlike but in terms of joking about birth, I Like some of my new stand-up is actually about how annoying those jokes are ya and those jokes are so weird, like the trivializing ones or the like malooley vagina got destroyed or whatever. Like how some of my new stand-up is. I feel like I want to just talk about why we even do that even do that. And and it's been really fun to find what's actually underneath
the cliche. Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean that's That's the goal is like trying to find whatever as you're saying, find, whatever is underneath the cliche, because I think that like, going back to like publicity. That was, what was so fun about doing it with? You was like, okay, are there. Here's what these shows are and then but in a weird way here is, what's underneath that in these two people. I think we should wrap this up. Okay, I don't have an eye on the clock.
I know we're supposed to be in conversation. But I, yeah, but to me, this conversation should be in service of your movie. That's nice of you to say because Was because you guys have worked incredibly hard on it for a really, really long time. Yeah, and it's a really beautiful thing. Thanks. And I think I think the world is really going to love it. The way that they, that I think people will love it the way you intend for it to be loved.
I hope so. Yeah, I mean and now that I really don't go on my social media very much like I post and then I delete it from my phone. Yeah. So, I don't know if I'll know and I don't like read reviews. Although, sometimes Dean sends them to me, went like, he really loves them. Yeah, because he's like, no, please read this one. It's really yeah. Yeah, share this with me is how he feels, and I think that's
right. But I, all I can say is it's exactly what we meant to do and that I do offer it up as an example of Both myself and I hope that it can be a gift to everyone. And that I feel satisfied in it all for free. Well, it's a you guys made something really, really beautiful. So cute darling. Yeah. All right, so we'll do the publicity reboot for seaso coming up. What's C. So she's always like one of those failed, like, you know, In the aqua, be clean. Be, honestly, you were amazing
though. I'd this podcast like shot off. Like, honestly, I couldn't tell if we were like working or having fun. But for me, like, working is fun. Oh man. In this was idiot so much. I know. We'll get em, we'll get em back up and running somewhere along. Way. My God, is that when I finally tamper with my face and get BOTOX never, I'm what if, what if it you show up on set? And my Liz is like, I'm like it's a character thing and it's like literally like you have
like tons of fillers. I really, I mean I'm like that was the one hard thing about watching. I know we have to wrap this up. What watching Kroll Show was I was like, oh, I was younger. Or like I don't have it. I feel like I look fine. I love how I look in fact, but like I'm like, uh, it's different, you know, and like I like it's like I I only want to use my creams, you know. Yeah. I only want to just if I get a facial middle. Put that weird light on me or
something. Yeah, when he's my creams, I do. I just can't get anything put in my face. I'm going to let my life cycle play out. But sometimes you like, you're like squirt squirt oopsies. I saw that. I was younger and it did hurt my feelings. That actually, once I was younger, Oh my God, but you know I know right? Come it is your skin looks great. And is fucking zester. No naked. I'm looking. Thank you that your skin. I'm like, it looks good. It's a been a dependent.
Mine. I can't even tell you how fucked up. Truly, truly fucked up. My skin has been ever really sensitive skin from what I remember? Crazy. It's been a. It's been like crazy. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Thank you. But it's getting better, but it's been truly like people. I'm like talking about on my show a little bit, but like, it's not, it's just insane. It's insane.
If you feel any better, when I look at myself, now, I see a flash of just Eli Wallach. Like, I feel like, I look exactly like, Eli Wallach. I just, yeah, that's how, how did you settle there? Because I saw a picture of him one time. And he was just like a really, really old Jewish person and I was Like, is there a difference? If it's raining me. Another answer is he's not alive, right? If he's not know, if there's not just please make a note to cut this out, if he's not dead, but
I think he did. Yeah, just cut it out. We met Eli Wallach happily. Listen. Oh my God, guys being like I was great. This is a great pot. Isn't that? And then it just at the end. I think he'd be thrilled to hear that you guys look like. I mean, I love him. Yeah, I love him. I love him and Keeping the Faith. He's wonderful. Love that movie. No one ever talks about it. I, it's weird that you're not in that movie as the male lead, is Ben Stiller, right? Yeah. And Ed Norton. Yeah.
I was too. That's the thing talking about how their businesses serving as the business has changed like that movie just does not get me. Absolutely not. But that movie rules and in fact the way they shot the sex scenes. I always loved that. I haven't, I don't remember. I haven't I've That movie like maybe once they're really, it's really like a lot of like hand up the thigh under the sheets like classy, but it is horny.
And like, I remember being like, that's what love making is that Ben, Stiller is doing to Jenna Elfman. Yeah. And of the thigh for them, I gotta go by I'll go back and watch it. I like it. Well, that's a good way to end it. If you guys, if you have time, go see Marcellus Shale shoes on but if not go, see Keeping the Faith, get a DVD delivered to your house from by.
Except flicks will deliver a DVD to your house of that film unless it's not in the Netflix library, but I bet it's some you can stream it somewhere for sure. Right. Was your movie coming out? How's your movie coming out in the theaters? Great. When it comes out. June 24th. Oh great. Yeah. I'm so excited. I can't believe I have to wait. People have I have to wait three months for people to see it. Yeah, I guess like I've been waiting eight years or whatever. So it's a little more.
Doesn't even feel like it's real anymore. Yeah, that it'll happen and I'm really really excited and I'm also just to say like You know, really excited for Dean because he's a genius and this is his first like giant thing. Yeah, and I mean, my prediction is like, you know, he like, you know, like never see him. Again. I'm begging for work from him after this, but he's just, he's just a brilliant genius. You really? Work is gorgeous. I agree, his it read it.
I totally agree. I mean, I've known him forever through, you know, And but I watching this, you're like, this is a really unbelievably talented filmmaker. Yeah, who should. And will get a lot of accolades and work out of this because I think it's just a beautiful sample of what he can do. So good to see you. Really good outfit. No one can see it. But you have a great outfit to thank you, and we got to get our babies together to fight my babies. Really kiss, you watch out my babies.
A slightly withholding he they've met briefly, but I really should get them. Get them on the playground on the book. All right, bye-bye. Thank you. Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by us a 24 special. Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt and robot repair who composed our theme.