Hi, I'm Sneen Song. And I'm Eva Victor, and this is the A 24 podcast. Wait, why did I nail it? Are we doing it right now? I think we're doing it right now. That's so awesome because it was such a seamless transition. You wouldn't even know we're doing the podcast. Yeah, when they were saying it's like, well, who would you do? I was like, who would I do a podcast with for this movie? And I was like, and then when you asked and I was like, Oh my. God, thank you for doing.
It we can do it together. Did you see Avanya on 42nd St. Have you seen that movie? It's like Andre Gregory. It's really cool, but that's how they do that play. Like it looks like all the audiences are just talking to each other and they're one of them. Waggy is that. It's so cool. It's just mind blowing when you're in the audience and you're like, the play has begun. The. Play has begun, just like this podcast. The Play the podcast. Has it's begun? Yeah, Oh my God, how are you feeling?
How are you? How's. Premiere. I definitely had a martini that's great, which for me was like New York martini celebration grown up. I mean, I can't drink at those things. Yeah, you know, because you're just like protecting yourself. No, not really even I feel like I just forget to. I know well. There's no time. There's no time. And then whenever I'm thinking I'm like, I should drink something, it's usually like water, Water that because I'm like so thirsty. I know, I know.
But you know, I am doing this like punishing thing where I'm not drinking water to see like what my body can take. OK, You can't do that. I know, I know. And you have to what I drink. I try to as much as I can. Are you for real? You drink water all the time. You. Have to like also. I mean, I'm still don't drink enough. Yeah, but I am. Told to. By who? Mainly my husband. Yeah, well, good for him. He's. Always like love. He's always like, you just need
to hydrate. But don't guy, I thought guys are like obsessed with like having like people drink water. Yeah. What is that? It's like love and also psychoticness and dad shit or. Something, maybe it's something like that, but maybe it's like the one thing maybe they figured out is that. Makes me feel good. Water is good. That's the one thing in this world that's like, constantly. Yeah. And it's like and you can get it and it's basically. Free.
In New York, anyway. You know what I don't like is watching anyone, but particularly men, chug water for a while and watching it go down their throat like. I think I like men a lot. You love men. I think I do. Because tell me everything that and then I am like. You're like, that's hot. Kind of, but you. Tell me what? Why? Because it's like they're fulfilling an essential need. No, I don't know. I think that I don't know. I find them so charming. You find men charming, Yeah. I do.
I find someone very charming. Yeah, I think some men are terming, but I feel like part of like part of that is like you just kind of go like, OK, it's part of I think knowing them too, getting to know them. But if you. Know and love chug water that could be very beautiful for you it. Could be very beautiful, but also like, I think that it's because like I just find them to be. I mean, I guess charming is the best word. For it, well, they're so different. They are so different.
They do the weirdest stuff. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like they were born into a different world in a way, completely like a world that was built for them. It's so awesome. It is kind of. I admire that. I mean, I don't admire that, but I do think that is very, it brings a different perspective. Yeah, I know it's. Huge to write, to walk into a world and then be like, oh this is built for me and this is for me. Right. And they're like, have some water, have some world. Yeah. Wait.
Oh, wait. OK. So how are you feeling? I feel. Good. Yes. Yeah. I mean, my movie's out in the world. You're going to come out so soon? And and, you know, I've never felt more clear on what the word release means. Yeah, I didn't understand. Oh yeah, you're having a whole thing. And I feel like I was doing this in 2023. I feel like you and I are having a. It's a vibe. Similar time, aren't we? How does you're feeling right now compared to your feeling then?
Oh, I feel like you must know exactly how I was feeling at that time in 2023, like back when Past Lives was coming out, where you were being introduced to the world in a really beautiful way with you in your film, and you just come to Sundance. It was so wonderful. And then shout out to you and shout out to you. And then, you know, so I feel like you get to come out of Sundance and you have all this like, amazing. You're like meeting your audience. Right. It's very so magical.
Weird. It's very, very magical and weird. It is pretty weird. I mean, cause something that I think about a lot is that you're visible but not seen sometimes, you know, because you're very, very visible, but it's only a handful of people who really see you. And even when I talk to, when I do interviews and stuff like that, I think about that a lot. I'm always like, oh, this journalist, this writer really sees me. Or sometimes you're like, oh, this, I'm just visible to this person.
Oh, that's such an important distinction. And when you feel seen, that's such a euphoric feeling. Oh. Yeah, well, and that's why you. That's what you're looking for. That's why we're making a movie. Yes. Right. And also, of course, you're so seen in your film, you know? Right. Yeah. As is everyone. I agree. I mean, I think that you can see me really well in my movie, you know what I mean? Yeah.
I feel like I'm like, really we just cause part of it is like we are especially being like having as much authority on it as we can. I'm sure it's like, if you don't have as much authority on it, then maybe like, you know, somebody else is in it. But for our movies, we just get to how lucky are we? I I mean, that's the thing that I feel allows me to sleep at night is like I feel that it is the film I wanted to make and that I am in it in the way I wanted to be in it. Like heart wise.
Yeah, yeah. Totally. Well, I think it's like you got to be in it and then now it's being, it is of course very visible and you want to be as visible as possible so that as many people who see it anyway, you can feel seen in it. Yeah, it's like giving yourself as much opportunity to find people who can see it. Exactly like weird too because visibility isn't emotional. No. There's nothing to hold on to, no. But it looks, it looks shiny and great, you know? Yeah. So it's. Yes, yeah.
But then I feel like once in a while, like I'll talk to somebody or something and I'll be like, oh wow, you're really. So you actually you actually saw me in the movie? Yes. That's so magical. That, yeah, it's like a drop of water and you're so thirsty and, like, feeling that. And when someone sees how you are in it, that is the thing that, like, allows you to believe that it made sense that you did it and that you do it. And because it's such a hard job.
Oh yeah, yeah. You mean like being visible? Well, just making a movie. Sure. You're like, it's easy to me. No, it's not easy to me, but I think part of it is that I don't know. Everyday I feel like I was on set for my second movie because I feel like part of making the first movie though is that I don't think that I knew how to appreciate it because it was coming at me so fast. Like I was just kind of like, oh, OK, Day 2. What's happening now? Yeah, and then day three. Oh my God, right.
And OK, so be wrapped. What happens now? So so much of it is like. Not knowing. Not knowing and figuring out on the way, but in the second movie I feel like. Yeah, tell me, tell me like how did it feel like prepping that? And like, yeah, tell me like your how your mind was. Because you're going to do it soon. Someday I need to sleep for a second. Yeah, of course, after you sleep. No, but like I'm really curious
about that, obviously. Yeah. Well, I think that what's amazing is that you just kind of, I felt really lucky doing it. Like every day I feel like I got unsaid and I'll find my first AD and I'll just be like, and he'll tell me like everything that isn't going according to plan, things that are going to according to plan, all the difficult news from the morning. And then I'll just listen to everything. I'll be like, OK, we're going to figure all those things out.
But how lucky that we get to make a movie today, right? It sounds like we can still go today. So I think that that part of it is so special. And also, I mean, I got to make the movie that I wanted to afford those movies, you know? Yes, how did it because there's there's a real gift in the privacy of making a first movie and not having the visibility because it's just you and your people and and no eyes that are watching for weird reasons.
And how did you navigate like walking into with so much visibility? Like you seriously are like so known and I feel like the percentage of like, I mean, I don't know how it felt inside of it, but like how many people I think saw you not just, you know, saw the film, but like saw you inside it. Like it was a remarkable moment. And it's a, it's such a lasting film. And like, how did it feel walking into with that
visibility? Like did it like 'cause you were saying like you felt pretty grateful. Like that's an amazing way to to process that the like potential pressure of visibility and to being like, I'm grateful to be here. Well, is that most of it? Well. I feel like some of it is like, first of all, I'm not that known, but I feel like in New York, of course, maybe more. Yeah. Because it's, you know, past lives. Such a New York movie. Yeah, I made it here already.
Own place. Yeah. And then also, like, your footprint is so huge, and then you know, you're taking over a whole block, right? A movie, right? Right. And it disrupts it. Disrupts, of course, and everybody's like, what? What are you shooting here, you know? And is it worth blocking my truck? Yeah. Exactly. So but I think it's like some of it is about, well, you can take that as that attention or that all the visibility as a thing that is like really in the way
and it's very annoying, yes. Or you can really think of it as like, well, how amazing that everybody wants to know what my next movie is going to be, right, right. Because that what that means is that they're interested and that. If they're around, they're there. They're waiting.
And the dream is that if the dream is that you're somebody who makes culture, if you're somebody who gets to have an audience that you hope to grow and expand and find new corners in, then you there's a part of it. You just have to be like, so cool that everybody cares, you know? Why is this therapy? Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's always good, you know, it's called any conversation I think has a therapeutic element if you get deep enough.
You know, they keep us apart. They have a director, own movies. We don't get to talk as much. We just don't but but I think that that's why I kind of really like this. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. I feel like it meant a lot because I did the one that I did before with Sofia Coppola, and that I feel like that was one of those most moments where you just get to sit and you just talk about like what this all
actually feels. Like, right, I know because it's such a such a weird and you catch each other at really weird times. Like, Oh yeah, every week is different. Oh yeah. And then my other thing I wanted to say about what you said before, like I feel like I'm understanding now how little time it is that you're you get to be on set in the scheme of
making a film. Like I don't think I understood that when I was walking into it. I thought on set was like the big and it is like so big, but time wise, it's like this blip in the making of a film. And like, the further I get from it, like I understand why that time is so precious, like as artists, because it's where you really get to work. Yeah, well, that's why you're all, that's what you're all doing together, right? Right. And it's also where the team is the.
Biggest Yes, it's true, but I do. Think that being a filmmaker, being the director, it's like you get to know every single person who works on the movie in a way that no one else does. Yes. And you're you have A and it feels like people come in as like it's like a quest and like, I mean, it's like the really important part of the piece, like, and you meet sort of like after after production, which is so hectic and like adrenaline
fueled. You get to go do the edit, which is like kind of the balm to production, which is time, but also it's like a nightmare. But it's also intimate in this way that's new. Like it's a very cool job. Well, it's like everybody is like showing up for the great affair. Right. Like, it's if you're kind of like having this amazing, beautiful creative affair for different phases of your making
a movie. Yeah. But then at the end of the day, the whole thing is you're the only one who has the whole picture, right? And you're the only one who knows the studio head and who's, you know, signing the checks and also the guy who's carrying the boom mic, Yes. But you're the one who knows all of them, yes. So in a way, it's like this amazing thing where you just get to see the picture of like every single person who touches this movie, yes.
It's big and it's and it becomes and you give the movie away over and over and that and that is nice. Oh yeah, I mean like when the to the collaborators. Yes. Or like it just it's like so much. It becomes everyone's film in a way that's like, really that. That part I find to be very special. Well, I feel like the moment where the department heads and then everybody truly, I mean down to the as when they start to know what movie we're all
making. And then my favorite thing is whenever my department heads just know the answers to the questions, there's a moment in prep where it's because it used to be that I'm the only person who could have answers. And eventually I'll like my DP will know the right answer and then he will actually know it before me faster, better, right? And that's really magical. And of course, it happens with cast too. I mean, in your case, you're in your film. No, but I mean the cast like
saves my life. Of course, because I mean they are thinking about what they have to do. Well, that is, you know that that I love that like someone becomes the the like advocate for their thing and then they become the expert. So and, and that to me with the casting process, like the joy of giving words to someone and then trusting that they understand that person more than like the giving away, especially to actors, obviously to other like
to designers who and everyone. But but there was something really special about being able to give away these slices of of these people and and then they become whole people in front of your eyes. Like, and you don't totally understand how it got there, but it's. But it's just now it's a whole person because it's, yeah. It's always better. I always think about this.
Right? Yeah. Because like the person's bringing their whole humanity to the words on the page, which is like the words on a page is just a suggestion of a person. Yes. Right. It's like walk down this road if you're interested, and then continue the road yourself because you're the only one that knows how to do it. It's such a beautiful, it's such a beautiful collaboration.
I know I love it. Well, I feel like when it comes to the way that the like actors show up for it, it's like I feel like if you give them room, but the room has to be something that is within the bounds of what you know about the character. But as long as the walls of that room is clear, the actor can fill it with their. Soul. Yeah, it's so. Magical, you know. But that with materialists. Watch that's. Really. That's what it was, Yeah. Yeah.
You kind of like, it's like a bit of like there is a bit of a target like that we all talk about as a target we're trying to hit. How do you talk about that? We talk. About like what I know about the character. You have to communicate everything I know about the character. Yes. And then of course there is a always going to be a conversation. And my rehearsals are more like table work. It's not really. We don't really beat the lines,
yeah. We just kind of go through every line and we talk about if anybody has questions, what I know about that line or what the meaning of that line, what's going on and then. Do you do you do rehearsals before? Like what is your rehearsal process? Like I do it during prep and then of course when we hit the set, the day begins with rehearsal. For the whole day or just for the the scene you're doing? So the scene I'm doing.
OK, just checking. Yeah, yeah, scene you're doing and like when everybody's there and then we all like, but a part of the rehearsal is actually just more like blocking. I agree, yeah. What about you? I mean also, how do you do, I need to ask, how do you do it while you're in the scene as a main character?
Too, Yeah. I mean, honestly, I prepared everything to the point of insanity because I have a ton of anxiety and my way through the, the like year before I shot the film was preparing the directing. Like I mean, as best as you can before prep, just like thinking through everything and, and, and storyboarding so that I could kind of because I never made anything. So I was like, I need to create visuals to understand if I like them. Like I had to sort of draw.
And then my acting prep was a lot. It was just, it was kind of like table work stuff too, where I just sat with my acting coach and we talked about sort of this person's transformation and how much we needed to convey in the few scenes we have before my character goes through something really intense. And then sort of this journey and how to just kind of stay honest with every moment. And, and it was, I mean, I, I did have an acting coach who we just being able to talk out loud.
It's like sort of the director and the actor get to do together often and and it was important that I had someone to work with in that way. And then like, honestly, with Naomi, she's just so good. So it's like, yeah, she's she's amazing. She can do anything. And like when we met, there was just like chemistry.
And it was much more for me in that relationship in the film about capturing the ease of that then then any sort of like thing we had to hit because like the beginning of the film was simply trying to create an atmosphere of joy and like welcoming for my audience so that we feel held during like the harder parts. But but but yeah, I I something I miss about like having gone to acting school and doing plays is the lengthy rehearsal process.
Like that is act like that is the acting dream is to get time and time and time to just talk through everything and and and to get to do the play in one go. You know, like that it so so how does it how how is it making film like do you like it? I mean, I love it. Yeah. Well, I think what you're talking about, that's something that I feel like is a new way of thinking about it because you're right. A play lives in is born, and it dies in one night, in one performance.
And it was, again and again. But you do it every and over again. Exactly. And every night it's like it lives a little differently because of the audience is different, the actor's mood is different. But the thing about film like this is kind of the way that I think about it, which is that every day when you're doing a scene, part of it is that you're trying to part of putting it in the can and finishing that scene
is to kill it, right? So as you're kind of like carrying out like because we also shot on film. So part of it is like we're literally carrying out cans of film. And I would always say, well, those are just little body parts of this movie, right? And some right. And some days you're making little, you know, like little fingers. Sometimes you're making a whole face, right? And you're just, and you know, you're and I get eyes later, right? Or sometimes you're being like,
we need a whole today's a day. We shoot the whole torso. Yes, like this is a big torso day. Exactly. And then you get all these different party parts and it always, I would always laugh because I would watch the cans of film that we shot carried out and I was like, well, there is a little body part that we shot today, right? And preserve. That. Exactly. And then in in post production, you basically get to bring all the body parts in you source through it.
And then and then you start to sew it like it's kind of like you're you're Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and you're kind of sewing together different party parts. And the goal, at least for me, is to sew it so intricately and so seamlessly that the audience thinks that the end product is, which is something that we put together, sound, picture,
everything. This thing that so many, like hundreds of people worked on to create perfect body parts and then just sew it on the right way the whole time is scripted. You're dreaming that this Frankenstein's monster is the audience thinks that it has a mother. Right, isn't like that. It was just born that way and then no one made. It there's like effortlessness. Effortless, so much so that you want the audience to fall in love. It's just the beauty of this
human being. To not see the stitches to. Not see the stitches. That's so. Beautiful. And you know what's interesting about that is like something that is crazy about the edit is discovering like, OK, so this foot can be the most beautiful foot you've ever seen it on its own. Then the second it goes on the body, it's like the body's rejecting the foot. Oh yeah. Or like it's choosing ugly foot. Yeah. So the foot has been longer and weirder shaped, but only because
this body requires that. Like that part is the fun crazy. And it's so crazy that you're trying to build the best body part possible to withstand the future. But like you're also kind of like, I don't know what's like, I, I, I'm making really thoughtful guesses about what's going to fit together. But like man, that body on the
other side takes a second. Well, but my thing is like, I think on your second movie, and this is my experience that you kind of get to realize that you're like, well, I just know that I need to get these few different sizes for the body parts because just in case like I'm like, Oh, it's so it's because of course, when you're trying to especially when like the set piece is beautiful and everything, you're looking for the biggest, most spectacular body part and trying to get
that. But then you have to sort of there's you kind of, I feel like I feel you're already going to know. They have the instinct being like. Well in the edit. I know that I might need a smaller version of. That body part? Tiny finger. Or I might be like, oh, to withstand that body part, I need bigger feet. So when we get to the feet part, then we'll be like, right, Like it's. Kind of love this. Right. I think it's a. It's a. Beautiful image because it's true and I think it works in
like 100 ways. Yeah. And, and The thing is like when you're shaving like because I shave like whatever, 2 frames sometimes and you're like, well, you're doing that. So that like that little stitch that's sticking out, you can't see. Right, yes. I mean, that work is so euphoric, a little stitch work because that's after you. That is something that you it's like a reward.
And in writing too, like I feel like that's what I'm always hoping for is that I get to the place with a project where I'm like, I'm reading, I'm reading, I'm reading. There's a stitch out of place and, and fixing the stitch like, but you only get there after, but you only get there after. Oh my God, it's so long. But you don't also don't know when it's going to happen, right? Because sometimes it's happening in the writing, sometimes it happens in production. So you think sometimes.
So yeah. So tell me about how you write. Like because do you ever go into like how many stitches should show? Like because I feel like in my head, the idea is like in the writing, like the idea that you try to make the body in the writing as seamless as possible so that when you get to the next thing and you chop up the body again, you can put it back together and you don't see the first it, you know, like but do you haven't like, is that how
you think about it? Or are you like I this is how much I need to know to go into shooting this like for your writing? Well, I feel like if you can cut something from your script before you go into production, what I learned is that you should, right? It's never going to show up and be necessary.
Because if you feel like you don't need it, the chances that you don't, Right. But I think that that instinct, it's sometimes I found it really hard to navigate when I was making my when I was making past lives, the first movie, because I would be like, I have an instinct. Yeah. Like my instinct is that I don't need it. But then you're scared because
you don't know. Yeah. So you're like, OK, well, we'll shoot it and then we put all these resources into it and then it ends up in the hitting room floor. Right, Right. And even in. But I feel like also, it also has to do with how you want to do it. Like my editor's experience for 10 years has been with Terrence Malick, right? Terrence I mean, so I know that he works in a way where he's not worried about how many extra body parts he ends up with, right?
Right. So he so I think it depends on the filmmaker. Like I feel like different film makers probably do it differently. Totally. Like but for materialists, I feel like almost everything we shoot is in the movie. Because you already edited like through and maybe you're someone who is like, I don't want extra body partners, I want more time
to make the body parts. Or something that to me, because it was like that way you can put the resources into the individual body part because you're kind of like, well, if it means that I can have, right? Like always a compromise. It's like if I have to go quick on this, I want this. Yeah, yeah. Well, what was the process for you in writing? Sorry baby. You know, I had it was I was making the things that he would have told me I cut from the film later.
You would have had to like actually like chain me up to get me to cut those. Those are the reasons I made that. Like, there were scenes that were the reasons I felt like the film got made. Yeah. Just these like, little, there were little like interludes throughout the film that I felt were so, like, important for for relief. And then something really clear happened in the edit where those scenes felt like just tension is just diffused and like, it was
so slow. But like, and then the film just felt like they were like it was rejecting the scenes that I feel like the idea of them I loved, but and then the things that I ended up keeping that felt so essential. There were a couple moments on set where I was like, I don't, this doesn't feel so right that like once they were in, I was very like moved by how little I knew and how much guessing was involved in in how the edit would happen.
And I am so curious like about I don't, I don't feel like I'll know exactly what I learned from that until I try again because. That's true. I don't know if I would. I don't know if I have learned to actually cut that thing or if make shooting that is actually important for another reason I don't understand. But you know what's crazy is that like I'm like something crazy is that like every movie
is a new universe. So like sure, you can make a film, but like I've never directed a film not in it. So I only know about that flow and like, I've yes, I've directed this film, but I've never directed one that looks like this with this kind of world, you know, and and that part's obviously the reason why it's amazing to get to make more than one movie and why we want to do that.
But also it's continually like terrifying because it's like you're building, it's like building another body that is a it's like an animal you've never seen or something. It's like but you don't know what it's supposed to look like till it's. Well, the problem is that it's a process like life, right? As in, like, how amazing that you're gonna get to do another one. Plus a part of that is that you're also risking a lot, right? But just like life, right?
So I do think that you're talking about like, yeah, I wish that we get to make our movies. It's out. It's going great. Your film's going so great. And then you wish that, you know, like, OK, well, that's it. That's the end of my life. Right, right. Like this would be a great time to end. Yeah, but The thing is like, the movies are over. A movie is out into the world. And in a way it's like, you're right. It's not yours because you can't
now. You can't go to the movie theaters and like try to like fix it and do more time and sound or something. You have to let it be right. And it's like, so in a way, creatively, it's no longer a lie for you because you can't do anything. For it huge grief, but. Something that I know really alleviates that grief for me is to think about the next thing right And then. The only. Way. It's the only way I mean. It's the only thing that you have, yeah. Everything else is put on you like.
Everything else, everything you're doing so that you can support the child you made that is now walking and living, and it's going to meet their people on their own. And you have to be there to support this kid, right? Sent to college. And you know, bye like but like miss you and I hope you, I hope you're. OK, Yeah, I hope I like gave you everything you needed, you know, but then you just have to let that kind of be. And then what's what's amazing is that we just can continue
thinking about the next thing. So that's that's the only relief. Oh, yeah. Well, I, I what I was saying, what I was thinking was that you know how you were saying that you want to sleep first before you're. I don't though. I know I said that, but I kind of made that up. Yeah, but I want to sleep up for an hour and then make. Yes, like about a couple of hours, you know, just feel like
2 hours that's enough. But, but for me, it's like, well, I, I was so lucky to support my movie through all the award stuff. So what happened was that after the So I went to the Oscars, which was so cool. Damn it. Was it was real damn. Like it was really cool. It was so. And then after I went to that, the next day I flew back to New York. The day after that I was on a scout van to make materials. No, you weren't.
Yes, I was. And so you knew that whole time you were going to that scout van. Whole I was, I knew it. Must have been so good for your like it was. So fun, like I feel like because of course, you know, like past lives, it's kind of a long grieving process of like, well, that movie is what it is. And then. But of course that's something to remember for us, I think in general is that yeah, so it might be over for us when it comes to that particular movie.
Maybe it's dead to us, but it's alive in the audience, right, right. The offer audience, every audience, new member, every new member of the audience who sees the movie, it's it's comes back to life. Right, it's a baby again for. Yeah, and then for and then I think it's amazing because then we get to live vicariously through the way that the audience sees it. So if they're like, oh, I really it meant something to me, then I feel I always feel like I'm alive again in it, right.
So that I really love. But but then you know what I what I think the favorite, the best part is like, yeah, you're right. Those, you know, 12 hours, 1214 hours every day, we're like, they're like 600 people who's working on the movie, right? We're like in the office on set. And then we're all just like, hustling together. Yeah. And it's like, you can't, you can't. You have.
It just requires presents. Yeah. And so you and I think so much of this part of like putting out the film is so about like, like you like me or whatever. And actually the thing I remember feeling relieved by was people feeling connected to the script and the film we were making. Because it really does making the film actually does take the attention off of like how you are and puts it on clarity of the story you're trying to tell. And that shift of like, it's not about me.
It's about this thing. And it stands over here and we're all looking at that, that I find to be really helpful. And the thing I'm also missing is like, we're all looking at the thing, not at me, you know, like that. And, and that is helpful. And there's work like you just have to, and there's stuff to do when you're making a movie that is, it's good to stay busy with the stuff you're doing because it keeps you on track with what your, your point, the point of
your life is, you know? Well, you don't think that they're all looking at you because I feel like I mean for me, I feel like being a director always is that you are the my joke is that I'm the mother, sister, daughter, right to every single person who's working on the movie right, Like I'm I'm like in charge and taking care of you as like in the mother way. Yes, I'm also your sister and that I'm your equal and you were gonna talk it out.
We're going to Yeah, and we're going to be confidant. So we're going to figure that out. And then I'm also someone to be protected for my vision everything like a daughter and then like and also what I want, if I trust to get me right get to happen. So I feel like it's this kind of like you kind of get to be all you are the center of the, the what is it the kind of like this, this thing that is being that we're all doing together,
right? So everybody's looking at you because I feel like I answer 1000 questions a day. Right, but they're looking at you in relationship to the piece yes, of course not like just you for the sake of you. No, you know, like there is something different about there's like a purpose to you're like the mother of the of the thing of people. No. But, but I think that's true. But I feel like how you are as a person will define how we're making the movie. Oh well, that's totally. True.
That's true. So in that way, it's like, well, I think about that so much. I feel like how I respond or how I behave, it's going to reverberate throughout the whole set. Right. There's like cells in it and the cells are in the film. Like it's totally intense. It is intense. So in that way, I feel like you're right, my goal, right, my goal is for it to be all about the movie.
But as the person who is holding the movie in my mind and who does know everybody from, you know, the highest, highest paid person on set to the lowest person on set, I know everybody, right? In that way, I just feel like I'm responsible for everyone's like everyone's work, like I'm responsible for everyone's. I couldn't say.
And I'm also like, we could think about this, which is that for like 12 to 14 hours a day, these grown adults, these grown union like adults are giving, like giving their life for giving their lives for 12 to 14 hours in pursuit of this thing that isn't me yet. And is I really have a genuine question about how tangible it is. Yeah, I think about because of course in the it's in the hard drive or it's in a, you know, can like their tangibility to the movie. But it's also in the air like.
Yeah, it's about the living through it, like the audience is experiencing it and that's the only, that's the final product. Yes, it's the experience of it. No, you're experience. It's like it's not the DVD, it's the time you spend watching the film. And that either that either like, yeah, it lodges itself into someone or it moves through them, but either way, it's about that person's relationship to what they're experiencing. And that is that you cannot
hold. No, I mean, you're asking also the audience to give two hours of their lives. I mean, that to me is the thing that is the thing of like the the honor. Yeah, I feel, yes, honor that someone spent two hours of their lives. Yeah. And also they got there and they they're leaving. They're going back like that.
Sometimes they get babysitters. And I'm like, no, you got a babysitter and they buy candy and it's like because they want to eat candy while watching the movie, because they want to escape and they want to feel like it's sensory and they want to like, no. And that's what we do. Like that's why I feel like that's why movies took my heart is because it's like I got to give two hours and get a life
back too in a way. Like there's but it's also a risk because it's like you spend sometimes you spend 2 hours and it it wasn't it. Was a waste of your. Time yeah, but it's also like, but there's also something about like I tried like I, I was interested in engaging with that and for some reason it didn't move me the way I wanted it to but like I'm gonna go back like people go back because they're like I'm gonna and that's why there's so many movies yeah,
it's because like. And that's the that's the coolest is that there's not one movie. It's like you find what moves you. Oh, yeah. But you have to give it enough time to like, find what moves you. Oh. Yeah. And also like, yeah, it's a it's a question when you walk into a thing. And I feel like in a world where where everybody's trying to be risk averse, it is really hard to be like, hey, take a risk on this thing, right.
It's original story, right? Yeah. It's from this person that you may have heard of, Maybe you haven't. Yeah. And I think you'll be great. It could be right, Right. So it's such a wild thing to promise. And then of course, as everybody becoming like, well, my time is worth this. And there's a lot of risk averse culture. Yeah, right. It's kind of hard to be increasingly or it's always hard to be like, hey, like take a risk on, you know, giving us like 2 hours of your life. Right.
It's a huge ask. It's a big ask. But my thing is like, if you were able to think about their responsibility, and I mean, use the word honor, right? It's like some of it is about like really seeing it as like, well, it is an honor to have it, so I'm not going to disrespect it. Yeah. Right. And then, and it may be that like I know that at the end of the day, all I'm doing is that I'm risking as much as you. Yeah, right. I mean, yes. And I'm giving you everything I
have. And that's doing the stitches, Yes. And making the stitches. It's like I'm giving you every, every. I'm caring. I care so much. Well, I'm giving you, I'm giving you, you know, like what a final mixes are 12 hours days and I'm there the whole time. And then of course my sound designers are there 12 to 14 hours a day. And my thing is like, well, these are people who have devoted their lives to sound
design, for example, right? Well, like my DP is somebody who devoted his life to image making. You're going to see these incredible grown up professionals give everything they know, giving all of themselves to the art of this thing. And my thing is like, well, that's the, that's what we're actually able to offer. Because if you show up for two hours, you get to see. All of. Us do our yeah. Craftsmanship.
I've been a writer for like 20 years, you know, like we're all showing up basically being like doing, giving you like, not just like little bit of image, little bit of sound, little bit of writing. We're showing up to give you our whole life, right? Yeah. Because my my script or my DPS images, it's not coming from like ether you didn't just like plug it into you plug into AI and then, you know, pop it out. What happened? Was that you? You build it from the ground
like. We worked, we failed, we worked again and then right I. Missed that part. No, it is really good. You're going to get there. You're going to do it soon, you know. What I mean, you're going to be. On set like 2 seconds. You know, it's just, it's I totally, it's like I actually can't believe it's real. What just being able to do this. I know it's crazy. It's. Really cool. It's really cool.
And there's so many parts of it. And every time you do a new part, you're like, what are you talking about? That's part of this job. Like it's such a special job. Oh yeah, it's such and it's true. Like. Really lucky, yeah. It's a really crazy thing to have people what you're saying about like they're giving their days of their lives to create this with you and, and it's supreme focus and it's everyone
doing the best that they can. And that is, it is like so life affirming to be in a space where everyone's doing that. Yeah, it's very rare, of course. And everyone who's there understands why you're there. So there's no explaining like what we're doing. I mean, talk about being seen. Yes. Yes, I feel the most seen when I'm on my set. That's where I feel the most seen outside of like my home. Yes.
You know, I feel like that's the place where I feel like, oh, I know everybody sees me because I feel like it's also where I feel like very, very, very human. Yeah. You know, because like, I don't know if some of it is about like, it's just the energy of it or it's just the passion of it that we're all like, yeah, we're not showing up to. We're not here to fuck around. No, we're doing this.
Yeah, you know, and. Once you're in, you're like once the timeline starts, yeah, that should just fucking go I. Know and it's so cool and I think it's like and also you get exactly how much you care out of it right I think about that in terms of like how much like care is involved and I'm always like well if you don't care then you'll get less out of it yeah and then if you care a lot you don't get a lot out of it yes right this is a person. Yes. No, no, totally. Yeah.
This is so nice talking to you. It's so nice talking to you. Seriously. Seriously. Can't believe it? So I feel like something I genuinely, I'm like, well, were you able to direct yourself in your like or did you kind of like go in like how many ticks would you do? Yeah, it would be like, it would be like, well, the first few days we scheduled lighter because I we had to figure out the flow.
I'd never done it and I think we usually the flow would be I had to stand in, which is so helpful. So I'd set up the shot with the stand in and then I would do it and then watch that. And I would only really watch that for shape, like is this how the shots meant to move? Is is there anything in this that doesn't feel like what I'm
what I want? Then once I we felt what the shot was figured out and, and any adjustments have been made, I would do a probably a run of it until I felt like it was what I wanted. And, and, and then I would usually watch what I liked but without sound. And it was mostly just like is the vibe of is it there? And because I feel like I knew what happened emotionally or I knew what I just knew what happened, but I just wanted to
make sure I saw it through. But I just, I didn't usually watch the sound because I was like, and sometimes stuff was heavy and I was like, it's easier for me as a director to just see shape and then I would, I would know pretty soon I would. The thing that was efficient was I noted myself. So there was no sort of like having to figure out our flow like it was. I knew the adjustments I wanted to make performance wise pretty
quickly. And it was, you know, really nice to be sort of working with actors from an act in scenes as a director, because there's sort of this like inherent trust because like I'm in the trenches too. Like we're both being really vulnerable. And there were a couple scenes in the film where I directed to people who and I wasn't in the scene and I was, it was like a totally different experience of like, I want you to know I I'm with you. Like it's like, but you're
vulnerable. You're the ones in front of the camera and like, I want you to trust that. I see that. That's insane. And like, and sometimes I would be like, oh, I like I've it would be like a learning curve of trying to figure out how to get in there and how to have find language for those people. But. Yes, I feel like the reason why I was asking is because I feel like such a big part of my relationship to my actors is my objectivity, right?
Because they have to so fully embody the subjectivity of the characters that they're not. I don't, I never want to ask my actors to also be in charge of the objectivity. Yes. And of course, like I am working with like 3, like just insanely professional, like excellent, like lifelong actors because like all three of them, like Dakota, Chris and Pedro, like all of them just have such experience like, like just working, right?
So the part of the thing that I really found is that like, and I think this is something that I found in any actor who has really long experience working is that they have a way to see their performance a little bit objectively because part is protectiveness, right? And then of course, after you build a certain amount of trust and they're they never able to. Release that and let. Go and then just let it be a
subjective work. And I think that to me, getting to that place is something that I'm working on and usually the first week. Right, Yes. And is it with each person a different way to both? Of course, Yes, yes, of. Course, because if it was a different person, so you have a different relationship with each person. Yes. And I think that it's like and I think. Mother, sister, daughter. Mother, sister, daughter, right.
It's like you kind of have to approach the every relationship and also every scene differently because it's also like some scenes are bigger scenes for one character, yes.
Or even like within the scene, the whole I'm like, well, first part of the scene is all about Dakota's character Lucy, you know, Second part of the scene is all about Pedro's character, Harry. So we're kind of always dealing with like, you know, it's a bit of a sparring of like it's a movie where it's a sparring of ideas. So, so much of it has to do with like each person really committing to the subjectivity. So I have to then be able to tell them that I'm in charge of the objective.
As in, like, I'm the person who tells them how it reads. Yes, right. So it's like I can take that burden off of you and tell you I have, I have. I feel like that's always the offer. And I think that usually the first week is an opportunity for all of us to build that trust. Yeah, right. So that we can all walk away from it feeling like it's really
awesome. And also, I mean, the way that all three of them are like, like for example, when I'm noting, the reason why I was asking about noting is that it's like the rhythm of noting is different for each actor. So I was just thinking like how those one note oneself because like, well, the problem with like, because I'm a very bad actor. Are you I'm? Really bad? Really. When have you done it? I've not really done it.
I was in the. Short I'm I'm in general bad, but I was in a play once and I did a short film once. OK. And the problem with me in that situation is that I will do a piece of performance and then in the middle of a performance, I'll be noting it, right. But then that is really connected to the way that I note as a director, because I'm usually writing something down about what I want to note. Look, while it's happening. Like I'll hear something, I'm like, oh, I know.
And then it's also, so I mean, that part's so fun because I also know why it's not, it's the right thing. It's almost just. Is you're not as an. It's like you answering the thing you had a question about. Like, and I get to learn about myself and I get to learn about them. So it's a, it's a very, I think noting is romantic. Yeah, it's a romantic relationship, right? Because, yeah, some of it is about like you're kind of trying to like offer something.
And of course, like different actors, like the rhythm of a note is it's something that we're finding in the first. Yes. It's also something that we're finding in the first week. Yeah, the first week. Like I feel like usually I'm like, like, because we're trying things. Yeah, totally. I mean, the thing about it being romantic is so true because it's like, I see something in you and I'm seeing something and I have an idea of where this could go and like, but I don't know.
And we have to decide together. Like there's a real kind of leap of faith of like to me and notice sort of like I have a hypothesis about something that could be over an interesting road to walk down, but I don't know what's going to happen at the end of the road. Are you interested in walking down the road with me and doing this this way to see what we come up with together? It's like a very intimate. Yeah. And that's. Oh yeah, and also we get to learn what are how he grew up
too. Like, it's kind of like you get to learn about the culture that we all grew up in. Like the way communication lands. Yeah, because I'm like, well, I'm like, I might have used a certain word and that word is actually not translating because it means something else to them. Like I feel like that was really fun with for example, cause what's what's amazing about working with Dakota is that like Shahur and I, I think because like I have a banks. IVI both of you have banks both.
Have banks, but also, you know, we're both, I was maybe going to be a psychologist, like a psychology major in college. So I was doing that. And I think she's so savvy about like psychological language in general. So I feel like something about like our language was already pretty immediate. And so that with her, the rhythm would be very like she would just try.
The first take would be rolling and then the between the 1st and 2nd take, we would talk about it in a language that would be so fast. And so we would talk about it as almost telepathic, because we would barely have to be fully articulate for us to know why that's cool, what we're missing for the first one. You both agree, kind of. We would. And then the second text you will just know, wow, yeah, I know. And then the third take will start to try new things. 4th
take. It was kind of like that. When you were shooting that like did, did you feel that on set and then also in the edit that was the same? Oh, yeah. Well, and then when it comes to Chris, for example, you know, like he and I, I think the first week we were trying to figure out different language because of like, because he's like a, I don't know, like he's from a, like a kind of like a different generation. And also like he's a guy from Boston. Yeah. He's a Boston guy.
Like he's a Boston guy, so there was a part of where I'd be like, I would use the word like humble and he would understand it in in a different way. So we'd be kind of like aligning some of those languages, right. But the thing that I really love about working with him is that he there are a couple of things that like, you know, wouldn't just make me and Dakota like laugh so much, which is that like when he hits the when he attempt to roll and he comes and hits the mark, he goes, all
right, let's fucking act. He says it every time. He says that like not every time, but sometimes when he's like sucking himself and he shows he's like, all right, let's fucking act. Oh my God, so sweet. And then the other and then in between when I give him notes. And with him it would be more like because I sometimes you're trying to dole out a few notes at a time, but with him, I give him all 10 he wants. To know. He wants to know, he wants to hear everything.
And then in the next take, it's amazing. He'll do all of it, right? And The thing is like, he's really technical. When I give him a note for the next take, he hears that we talk about it, and he goes, all right, got it, Watch this. That's so. Sweet, honestly. Like the beauty of that is he is creating new energy to lighten the moment so that the next thing can be free. It's like, it's like almost like returning everyone to childhood. Yeah, like we're playing.
Yes. It's like, let's fucking X like that's that's like a way to take any tension out of the room. It's cool. That's amazing. OK, How about Pedro do everyone? Well, I feel like Pedro. I mean, with Pedro, I feel like so much of it is about like in such like abstract language sometimes like we will kind of get into it in a way where we're like, again, I think it's similar to the way it is with Dakota, where it's very philosophical and psychological. And then it's usually before we
roll. That's when we talk a lot before. Oh, interesting. And then he goes and then we and then we just keep going. Second take. Third take. In the. In the yeah, because in between and then I feel like when it comes to notes, it's always about like something that like I would usually just give him a word or something that we already talked about in the before we started rolling. Oh my God, how it is like
they're different. There's something very like familial, something very like intimate and like, yes, deep about like learning how someone needs to be communicated with. It's very loving. I mean, to learn how someone receives a note because being an actor is so vulnerable and like, you're just throwing yourself. And you know what?
This is like something I feel like I really understood for the first time is how, how how much control actors let go of how much they give you and then how much trust they have that you will take care of them on the other side. And that responsibility is intense and so powerful. It's so powerful to be given that gift of like I did all these takes for you. I let you choose which one that you think fits on the body and I'm going to be the face of the
of the body or whatever. Like, and that I feel like it's really made me think about, you know, the future. And like, you really do have to, you have to work with people who are, who are going to learn, learn you as a whole person, like who care enough to, to see you as full, because that's how you can hand your whole self off to them and trust that they'll put it together in a way that honours like your soul.
Totally. And I think it's like with great power comes great responsibility, you know what I mean? Like that? Isn't that just like? Ain't that the truth? That is like the. Thesis of what we can. It's like it's just a lot of responsibility. And I feel like if you take that very, very seriously, you know, and, and the whole thing is like every day you're showing up and you're promising everyone we're gonna make a great movie today. Yes, we're gonna make a great movie today.
You know, of course to all the actors, but also every single person works in the movie. Yeah. Did we do it? We finished. I think we did. That's the end of the podcast. The weird way to end?