You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. It's Friday, not Thursday, but it's time for the doubleheader dream team edition of the five o'clock shadow, but it's not the five o'clock shadow. You get what I mean. Viv Govender from RAND Swiss, the award winning RAND Swiss is with us, along with, of course, David Shapiro from Sassfin Securities. And by the way, if you want to get into the Sassfin Securities David Shapiro Crystal Challenge.
Is this your last day to do it, David? Last business day. It is the last day to do it, isn't it? What do we do? How do we do it? Just go onto the site. There is a link. It's pretty easy. And even if you miss it or something happens, we always open up. And we don't want entrance next week, but we're always open-minded. We're not that strict. So try and get onto the website. And, you know... Look, even on the weekend you can do it. Okay. I mean, that's fine, yeah. Okay, I'm going to do it.
I'm doing it this afternoon. It's a challenge. You must do it, yeah, because it's a bit of a challenge. I mean, when you think that everybody says, oh, it's just choose five stocks, you say, okay, you've got 10 months. Where are you now? And I know we're all going to talk about gold and platinum and everything, and you're saying, okay, where is this world? Crazy world, as you said, when we introduced.
the show when we started on the conversation so where are we going to be 10 months time it's not that easy it's not easy at all and viv viv unfortunately you're barred from joining because you're far too clever no we we don't bar anybody he can even come in his daughter's name his wife's name we we're pretty open about it anyway for your edification david and i spoke on Monday and I said, I was sort of I was talking about the much maligned days of when markets opened and then they
closed and then they opened the next day. And so what would happen was that there would be a graph. It would close at eight, nine o'clock at night, Central European time or South African time. And then it would open the next day. And therefore it would sometimes open higher or lower than the close the previous day. So there would be a gap on the chart. And I was looking at the gold price and I saw it. gapping every day.
Every time I went to bed at half past midnight or whatever, having watched a football match, I would see the gold price $100 higher than I remembered when it closed in New York at 10 o'clock or something like that. And there was this theory, Viv, of three gaps, the breakaway gap, the runaway gap and the exhaustion gap. The third gap being the exhaustion gap, which is people either covering shorts or getting in.
They were Johnny-come-latelys. And I saw that this week and on Wednesday night on a podcast with Skulk Lowe, who's a fine chap, David's on television with him every Wednesday, I think it is, in the afternoon. And I said, this is the top of the gold market. And he said, you cannot call the top of anything because you'll be criticised and ridiculed for calling that top. But I called the top in gold. And look what's happened to it now. Viv, can we start for a change with you with gold?
it telling us something that it's gone from 5,625 on Wednesday night, Thursday morning, to where it is now pushing to go down back through 5,000, Viv? In terms of like the gold price, I think it went a bit ballistic. I mean, I was looking at the silver price a couple of days ago, also went to like $120 an ounce. You know what I mean? And I think that that was a bit of a over, of course.
uh that move it was it felt like a frenzy it felt like you know people were just kind of capitulating and maybe shots were closing or people were just kind of like afraid of missing out on on the rise or whatever it was yes and uh so i i in fact we did a uh a trade out which was the gold silver ratio and uh at that time it was below 45 uh the gold silver ratio uh it's moved you know well in our favor but not as much as if you can go and shot a
gold or silver of course but we were looking at that and thinking that was a bit off. Now, in terms of the gold price, is this the end of it? I don't think so. Because once, you know, this year alone, you were talking about it, you know, with the Federal Reserve, etc., being in play, the U.S. government is going to do things to the dollar over the next couple of years that are probably not going to be great for the dollar.
It's also going to mean that what Trump is also doing into the national relations is going to mean that, you know, central banks don't want to be involved in dollars as much. And quite frankly, there is not that much gold in the world compared to the amount of dollars out there. And if you wanted to replace the US dollar with gold as your reserve currency, the gold price would need to be significantly higher than here for that to occur.
And I think that is what's probably the longer-term trend happening out there. At the same time, we also have, and I've talked about this in the past, places like India, I don't know how much in China, but India definitely has incredible amounts of gold. We're talking private citizens in India have, I think, multiple times as much gold as the US government does.
And as that country grows 7%, 8% a year, more and more gold is going to be consumed because it's a cultural item that people want to buy a lot of, you know what I mean? And so that's also going to be a driver into the future. So the overall gold price, I think, has still got a way to go eventually. But in the short term, I just think this rally would be just too strong. I'll qualify my call on the gold price peaking on Wednesday. And that was a near-term view.
I think it comes back to 4,000, 3,900, something like that, but then potentially goes sideways and goes again. So, yes, fundamentally very good, technically horrendous looking. David, big tech results came out this week, and I'm going to start with you and then move on to Viv. I don't know where you want to start because there were so many, the latest being Apple, Blockbuster, Blockbuster numbers. Give me the pick, the best and the worst, please. I think they're all good. And I mean it.
You can nitpick. You know, we can go through line by line and decide which is not going to make it. Is this the end of Microsoft? because They're under a bit of pressure and they're not going to make their returns on investment, they're overinvesting and so on. But Lindsay, and I always tell you I'm an accountant and I like to look at the actual income statement and balance sheet. I'm not influenced by what people say around. I go say, what are the sales? What are the costs and so on?
And then I go to the bottom line and I see how much cash they're putting on the bank, the bank. And yes, analysts will start to look at it and look at what's likely to happen in the future from these results, discount them and get to a so-called intrinsic value. But in terms of the size and riches, these are enormous businesses doing incredibly well. What knocked me out was with Google. Not Google, sorry. Meta. You know, when you look at Meta's role.
Meta's numbers, which were absolutely outstanding. And just identifying where things are going, where they're taking that company, and the kind of spending that they're making. They're forward-looking. He's an energetic person. So I haven't got all the full details in front of me, and I can't really quote the numbers offhand because these are big numbers. But look at Apple.
um up 23 percent uh sales and i'd mention i don't know if it records or you recall when i came back from uh new york in october the story about buying a phone for your daughter or daughter and i told you yes well for a friend here and i was saying that yeah and i said i couldn't get with you know there were just hundreds of people in the uh apple stores you know just buying the 17.
And I said, don't write this off, you know, which has come through in the sales both in China and India and in the United States. But if you look at Microsoft and their Azure, people getting worried, upset. Why? Because the growth in Azure, which is their cloud business, grew 39% and not 40% as last year. Last year, I said, hold on a sec, you know, that grew 39%. What? What do you want out of a company? So, I mean, without getting too emotional, I just think, hold on a sec, take a step back.
Stop trying to analyze every little bit. You know, just look at the big picture and where this is all going. It's not going to be perfect. You know, it's not going to be in a straight line. There are going to be hiccups. But overall, I mean, these businesses are just spewing out cash. So, I'm not put off by anything that I'm seeing at the moment.
Okay, Viv, are you put off by anything, either from the Magnificent Seven or from the AI, not pretenders, but pretenders to their crown of the name Magnificent? You saw a lot of numbers, and I also want you to focus, if you would, on the companies that are committing more and more to CapEx. CapEx, very, very important, not just the numbers.
Over to you, Viv. uh so basically sandisk uh those companies up dramatically this year i think up 90 and after in aftermarket trade last night, it is up a bit higher. This thing is up to doing almost 1,000% or 1,000 plus percent last year.
uh you know um remember the stock uh delisted a few years ago relisted uh uh basically about a year or so ago it's up over a thousand something percent last year and about another i said 90 plus percent this year so i think combined it probably is up like you know i don't even want to know the number at the moment uh but the interesting one that i saw there was tesla's results but tesla basically is the world's largest car company and what are they doing
they stop this they're they're moving away from cars they are they are moving their factories towards robotics Okay, and that is either two things. Firstly, it's either, you know, if you take a cynical view, Musk is seeing that the demand for Teslas is down for, you know, political reasons, and therefore he wants to give another story out there.
So he says, oh, let's say we're not going to build enough Teslas because, you know, obviously we can't sell them, but rather just make these robots, and that's going to give us another few years of, you know, hype and whatever. Or it's a case of he's seeing that robots are close to fulfilled. And that means that you want to be the guy out there with the ability to make these robots in a quantity quickly, which will give you a head start into the new race.
And the reason I might believe two instead of one, in that he's actually acting rationally, is that there's a new video from FIGA. And FIGA is one of those guys that make robots. You know, they're more into the design stuff than the actual manufacturing. But it's a robot basically emptying a dishwasher.
And normally when you find these things doing these things, they have these kind of either the slow kind of, you know, how you talk about this hyper choreographed kind of like way of doing it, or it's teleoperated, which means that some human being is controlling it. And the CEO of FIGURE says, no, this is entirely autonomous. Okay, you can watch it yourself. It's the FIGURE robot emptying a dishwasher. It looks very, very smooth, very, very quick.
It looks like a slow human, that's true, but a slow human that I'd be happy to have walking in my kitchen, you know what I mean? And so that's one thing to look at. The second thing, I think, you know, I don't know if it's the right point to talk about this or not, but have you guys heard of a thing called Claudebot? No. Okay, so this is something that's used, it's spelled C-L-A-W-E-D, Claude, like a claw. Yeah. But obviously, it's a play on the word Claude, like, you know, from Anthropic.
I think they renamed it Baldspot recently. But anyway, it's, if you look at that there, it's a new kind of thing that runs off these... famously Apple, but you could run it off any kind of like CPU and stuff. You, it's almost, what it does, it accesses all your stuff, like your WhatsApp, your Telegram, your, you know, your email and all that kind of stuff. And it uses that when you want to basically work on stuff. Okay. Also, we have seen a topic has come out with an AI for Excel, an Excel AI.
Can you imagine, David, how properly integrated Excel AI would be in your life? Okay. That's the kind of new stuff coming out at the moment. And the interesting thing about this that I want to point out, and that's a little different, is that they've looked at the usage of the CloudBot stuff, and people are using the higher-end subscriptions for AI and not just playing around with the free and the low-end subscriptions. Because think of what that means.
It means that it's so useful that people are deciding that they want to spend the $200 a month, not the $20 a month, or get the free version, in order to get advantage of this thing. So I think it's a key moment. in the whole AI race that, you know, I haven't analysed how that's going to affect things going forward, but it's interesting that you are seeing that even despite the race, we have a change that is this dramatic happening that we'd be in a box of things right now at the moment.
David, before you make your point, I have to ask you, would you have a robot in your flat in Corlett Drive overlooking the Wanderers cricket stadium? Would you, instead of you or your wife emptying the dishwasher, Would you have this thing coming out of a cupboard and emptying it for you? Would you feel comfortable with that? Yeah, I hate the dishwasher. I hate washing the dishwasher.
No, I'm good with a vacuum cleaner, but there's certain things that I detest, and that one is putting in and taking out of the dishwasher. Now, why? I don't know. So I've got Linda, who's my robot at the moment. Shame. Linda, I know you're listening. I like you. And the areas here, you cannot believe how much dust accumulates and things like that. It's not the question of what you like and don't like. I'm asking you, would you be happy with a robot as described by Viv Govender?
Would you be happy with that robot in your house? Yes, I've got no problems with that. They have an intruder or whatever it is. It depends on what it starts to look like because, you know, whatever. So. Yeah, I think it's progress. You know what the point, just listen to what Viv say. Yes. And it's so important because we criticize the investment. And, you know, the amount of money going in, and I'm always critical of that, of people who, that's how growth is created. You know what you're doing?
You're helping scientists. Yes, they might flop here, flop there, but all of this adds up. And if we don't make the investment, you never progress. And come back to South Africa. There's no investment here. There is no investment. There's no investment in anything, in infrastructure, anything. How can a country grow? So I don't mind if these businesses keep putting in money and sometimes it's a bit of a flop and they don't get the exact return on it.
It would have paid to put it into a seven day account or a 30 day account rather than putting it into science. And, you know, from my point of view, I'm so big on R&D and the eventual benefits that will bring. And you just have to go back to Amazon and the early days, how we used to then base poor old... Jeff Bezos, because he constantly reinvested.
Yes, he might not have had the best returns, whatever it is you can criticize down the road, but just look, you know, what he has produced and, and, you know, where these companies are going. So, you know, I just, I just shake my head. When you, you know, meta Zuckerberg has wasted money, he's gone into certain things, but overall, something will come out of it. He cuts it when it's not going as he's doing at the moment. But he will find something else. He's taking the credit to him and to Musk.
The same thing, going into robots. So, Lindsay, I find it exciting. No, you make a very good point, David. You make a very good point. I mean, you can spend an awful lot of money. I mean, if you look at, for example, Kurs Becker, he went into China once and it was a complete flop. And then he went in there again. And it was a huge success. And we know what the story is from there. So you just keep on going. And as you say, there will be some flops.
There will be hundreds of millions, if not billions, wasted. But the billions that are not wasted turn into eventually trillions, potentially. So, yes, you do make a very good point indeed. Do you agree with David, Viv? Oh, you most certainly. Look, I mean, we always talk about A. And I think it could be, you know, wrong. I don't know if you guys saw this week. that some scientist in Spain has a theoretical cure for pancreatic cancer. It's been incredibly successful in mice.
And this is just the kind of stuff. I mean, R&D is not just about, you know, what you call this, making your product better or whatever. It's about making the world better, you know. You spend an R&D, the local effects are so large and so grand, you don't even know what the eventual outcome is going to be like. And I think that, you know, in South Africa, the fact that we're not spending Despite the fact that we obviously have some, I see there's something weird about South Africa.
I don't know what it is exactly. But if you look at how much above our weight we punch, it's quite surprising. You know what I mean? Especially in technology, where we've had like first, like the heart transplant or whatever. Where's the schooling system? Where is the weather? Where is the biltong? Who knows? There's something about us that does make a difference in like, you know, how things... How we think about the world.
I think it's also the fact that we live in a very diverse country, that you can't just be a single-minded drone and do your job. You have to think outside the box sometimes. And I think that's important. And so, yeah, I think that we in South Africa are significantly underinvested in R&D and we are wasting, I think, one of our key assets. And I don't know if you saw the metric results that came out recently.
No. And it was 80% in KZN or whatever, not pointing to the fact that, you know, I think 40% of the kids that basically start grade one end up getting a qualification. in grade 12. So the other kids are kicked out in grade 10 and 11 so that the, I can just say this, the idiot bureaucrats can say that they had an 80% pass rate. Well, that only means 80% of those that wrote passed. Meanwhile, only less than half of those that actually started in the school actually wrote the exam.
You know what I mean? And that is the thing. We're wasting all this talent. That is quite a tragedy. Lindsay, I must tell you something. You think Viv is clever, okay. I was looking at Crawford's results. There are so many Naidus, Govinders and so on there. He's going to have a lot of competition down the line. Eight, nine, eleven distinctions. Yeah, what is it about children in China and children in India, Viv, that makes them more diligent than people in, for example, the UK?
And let me give you an example. I've got a friend who's a teacher. She's one of these teachers that is on A list, so when someone gets sick or someone goes on holiday or extended leave, whatever it is, she gets called in to go to the school. She says she's teaching year eight, as it is in England, year eight pupils, and she's teaching them history. And she said, what is the predominant religion in Southern Ireland? And the kid put his hand up and said, Scottish.
So the child didn't know what religion was, didn't know the difference between religion and language, obviously knew absolutely nothing. And this is year eight. So there's a huge difference between, for example, European kids, American kids. And I don't want to be stereotypical here, but Indian or subcontinent children and Chinese children, they want to learn, Viv. They want to work seven days a week, don't they? Not that. I think it's also, it would wonder why Jewish kids do so well.
And why, you know, you find, it's because I think... I'll tell you that afterwards. I think it's the actual reverence that Jews and Indians give to teachers and to education. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, if you look at the Jewish tradition, it's the guy that studies, you know, the holy books the best, has a lot of automatic respect. I don't know if I'm correct about this, David, but it seems to be like that, yeah. So if you're a learned person, even if it's not.
a poor person, you're going to learn a person that you admired. In the Indian culture as well, I mean, there's a saying, it goes basically, it's a teacher before God. You know what I mean? Your teacher is treated with a degree of respect that's insane. Now, in a way, that's good, because it obviously gets you the good marks. In a way, that's bad, because the one thing I always point out to the world is that we always talk about the dumb Americans, right?
But there's something about that craziness in America that... This misbehaving or disobedience or this old, like, you know, stupid stubbornness that allows a child to think outside the box and do the things that they do, you know what I mean? And I think that's one of the things that I forget as well. We complain about the fact that our kids don't get the marks or whatever.
But I think that you can't really push just on education as much as you do, because yes, you'll get the best marks, but you won't get the best kid, if you know what I mean. And so I do wonder, like, you need to have some of that, you need to have a mix of it. Obviously, the kid needs to study at school, but you need to also have that certain degree of.
you know uh the crazy kid yeah i was just thinking someone especially with young boys nowadays they people put them on richland they put them on all this kind of garbage because they don't want the kid to be too uh high energy in class but you look at i mean we've all been like in the real world who are the people that really make the biggest difference it's these crazy high energy guys you know what i mean you'll find some guy that was a terrible student and he owns like 100 picture shops.
Like I know one of our clients is like that. He owns a bunch of pizza shops. He's one of the richest guys around. But it's because of the fact that you have a situation in which you have that energy. That energy matters more than anything else. I do it by education, but I do think that the energy, the misbehaving is something that we must have in this country as well. David Shapiro was probably a little bit of a cheeky chap when he was in class, but he's got some stories about Jewish children.
I know you're dying to tell us this story, David. No, you know what's very, well, first of all, Jewish mothers you don't start with. Okay. You know, and they push their kids, you know, it's like the tiger moms. But there's another very interesting point is that studying the Torah, In other words, the holy books, if you study that, the rabbi is nothing more than a guide or a teacher. People study it in groups and they learn to debate.
And the whole thing is around debate, debating points that come up. In other words, you're not told what to do. You know, you're not told. You have to interpret it according to commentary and that. And you go into any yeshiva, you know, or a holy school, whatever you want to call it, you'll find people sitting there in groups debating, you know, debating what happens. And that, if you take that through, it's a very, very good way of learning. In other words, it's not by rote.
It's not forced upon you. So it's something that they've tried to emulate or copy in schools. I don't know with how much success, but it's a. It's a wonderful play, time or way of studying things. So it's not the fact that they're studying one particular thing, i.e. the Torah. In fact, it can be applied to the rest of their learnings and indeed in later life. The ability to debate, the ability to... Yes. Understand someone else's idea. And yeah, exactly.
If you're in a group, you question each other's ideas and therefore you have a greater outlook on life, I would say. Yes. OK. Is that what you're saying? It's it's it's a different education system. When I went to school, there were 30 to 40 kids in a class and everyone learned the same thing. It was reading, writing arithmetic and that was it. And you learned the times table and you learned English literature and English language, et cetera. And it was all set. There was no individuality.
We all had to learn the same thing. Whereas today, I think you have to say little David, little Viv, little Lindsay. They're very, very different. They have different outlooks and they have different skills. So let's put them in this class or this group rather than just all in the same class. It has to be individualized, I think, David, as an educator. Crawford is an example of that. Maybe, maybe they're progressive. Very much so. But I was knocked out by...
They've just come out, I think they write a different exam, and the results came out this morning, it was in business day, and I looked along the line there, and I said, Viv, you're in trouble, boy. You're going to have a lot of youngsters there that are going to come and challenge you, and so on. But it's marvellous to see, I mean, that you've got this level of students, you know, that these people are coming out with these incredible results. And we've got the schools that can produce it.
Also, credit to them. I just want to point something out here. What David is talking about, what these kids are studying, actually, by looking at the holy books, they're studying philosophy. You know what I mean? That's what they're actually debating. It always amazed me that if you look at any part in human history until we had formal schooling like we have right now, that you would never be considered to be an educated person if you didn't know about philosophy.
All through thousands of years of human history. If you were to be an educated person, you had to know philosophy. How is it that we don't have a philosophy class in school? How crazy is that? That the one thing that has always been thought to be, because an educated person is philosophy, the ability to think, and yet no school has like as much focus on philosophy as they do on English, science, math, you know, etc. It's such a weird kind of dichotomy, isn't it?
It really is, and if you can be bothered and you're on X or whatever it is, get into a site called Philosophy Quotes, and it sends you something per week, five quotes per week from modern and historical philosophers. And I find it actually very illuminating. And you read something that was written 300 BC or something, and you say, I can apply this to US politics at the moment. It is incredible. I agree with you. Philosophical quotes to me of philosophical studies are terribly interesting.
There's a BBC program that goes on at a ridiculous time, like one o'clock in the morning, about philosophers, and it's from the 1970s, and it's really boring, but goodness me, it's insightful. Anyway, we're going off a tangent, and this is why the show is so popular. You've got to go on to the Monty Python.
you know of the philosopher's soccer game and football game now that is a proper tangent um david and viv we've got to talk about now the results that came out this week because one of the main reasons i get you two in is because of your tech and your ai success and knowledge is is it a case that we are now getting different companies doing different things and therefore yielding different results for investors is there a difference between apple and meta and Tesla and Nvidia, for example,
and you have to be selective now, you can't just buy. This is a theme that I always bring up in every asset class, but I'm going to bring it up now, given the fact that we've had all these results this week. And I'll start with you, Viv, on this one. Do you have to be selective with the Viv Govender Rand Swiss portfolio? Look, I mean, you do better if you were selective. I mean, if you'd gotten sanded with stuff micron like I did, you'd have done much better.
But micron alone also did 200 plus percent last year. So, yeah. If you buy into the overall sector and don't, you know, just, you know, even about it. I mean, David mentioned, I think last week was that ETF Sox, right? Yes, yes. Sox ETF has done 100% in the last two years. You know what I mean? It is up quite significantly this year as well. So I do think you can still, because the underlying trend is so strong, you will get, you know, some benefit from that. But obviously, you'll do better.
by picking the winners and yes you're right we might be coming to a point right now where uh the actual real winners are going to be emerging so we're going to know who is the amazon or who's the price.coms of this internet of this particular phase of the of the of the market but that being said like i said sanders look at sandisk's performance look at the other memory companies have been insane and with regards to microsoft i still have belief in
microsoft because microsoft has the same benefit that google has or alphabet has i would suspect that if you had We had to look at the combined IQ. of these two organizations. There's no organization in the world that can come close to either Microsoft or Google in terms of the pure amount of brains that they've accumulated over the last couple of decades. There's so many geniuses just sitting, calculating a salary at Microsoft and at Google.
And if they get under threat and they have the desire to actually go and focus on this, there's no way Anthropic can build a better AI bot for Excel than Microsoft can. You know what I mean? There's no way you can have some, you know, to a small company building a better AI system that's going to communicate with your Gmail than Google can. I think that these big companies still have an advantage that has not been replaced yet.
The one thing I've been nervous about is some of the smaller guys out there. I'm hearing very bad news about OpenAI because apparently they are not quite catching up with the next thing. And they are so dependent on the hype. Whereas Google and Microsoft can actually go out and get funding from their own internal sources, OpenAI has to go and raise funds each time.
And if they ever have a period in which they are not considered to be the best thing around, they're going to have trouble raising the money. So I think some of these smaller guys might have problems. But I still think if you're just going to be basically saying buy one or two stocks, buying an Alphabet is not a bad idea at the moment. Okay, David, over to you. Have you chosen one out of the companies that released results as we can say, I want this one and I don't want this one?
You know, I must tell you, I was impressed by Apple and I haven't been a big Apple holder. And, you know, when you see that their sales were up 23%, also services. Look, they're slowing down on services was up very strongly as well. And I just think that for me, it just showed that there's a breakthrough or a turnaround in taste. The fact that they did well in India, they're well in China as well, you know, because there's been criticism about that.
Yes, underlying goods are costing a bit more in order to put them all together. But when I watch my kids, when I watch the people around me. And this is what's so interesting. I like to have a big screen in front of me. That's it. You know, I like to operate like I'm at Houston Space Center. But when I look at younger people, everything is on their phone. Everything. And their whole life is dictated. It's almost a link. They cannot survive with it. And so. I was impressed with that.
I've got to go through it. I'm sure the shares will be down now because for some other reason. But the way I'm approaching it is almost, you know, looking at the backbone, which is ASML, NVIDIA, Taiwan, Semiconductor, Micron, those kind of companies. So I still believe in the backbone. And then, you know, the platforms that are monetizing all of this, you know, cloud, advertising. whatever, which is Alphabet, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta.
The one that's eluding me, and this might kill me, is the software houses. They've been under huge pressure, ServiceNow, Adobe, Salesforce, and so on. And I can't believe that you can actually adopt these, put them into your business, because very few companies have really adopted AI. I mean, I'm talking across a broad spectrum. And you're going to need expertise. And I believe that there's going to be opening for these, but they haven't done anything up to now.
But I mean, you can go down the chain. And also, if you listen to the power side of it, there are massive gaps there as well. So if I'm going in and constructing a portfolio, it's across all these segments. And the one thing that, you know, with SanDisk, which is what... Verve has been talking about. I mean, no one took this into consideration that you're going to need memory, which is the Micron side, the Samsung side, and certainly SanDisk.
SanDisk was, you know, you'd go to a shop and you'd put the little disc into your camera and you'd store your pictures on that. You know, I mean, they're much bigger than that. But I like to go across the chain. If I've got to put it together, I want the whole supply chain. Thank you very much, gentlemen. I'll leave you on this now because Viv was talking about philosophy and the teaching of philosophy in schools, or rather the lack thereof.
Okay, I'll give you from philosophers from philosophers quotes, which I get every week. The first quote was as follows, neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together go to the making of genius. Love, love, love. That is the soul of genius. And that came from Wolfgang I'm Amadeus Mozart, 1756 to 1791, whose birthday it was earlier this week. And the quote that I'll leave you with, I think this is all aimed at Trump, actually, in the Trump administration.
Men, be kind to your fellow men. This is your first duty. Kind to every age and station. Kind to all that is not foreign to humanity. What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? And that was Jean-Jacques Rousseau, 1712. to 1778 in his book Emile Orr on Education. There you are, gentlemen. We've been talking about money and this and that, and I will end on money, actually, because that's my duty. This looks a little bit like 1987, a sort of mini version.
It started on the Wednesday and Thursday in 1987, October the 19th, and I think we're getting something like it now, with the gold price down 5.6%, the silver price down nearly 14%, you the other stocks getting whacked a bit i won't ask you to comment on on that but it's got a feeling about it viv governor is from rand swiss the award-winning rand swiss and david chapira is from sas and securities and don't forget to go to the sas and securities website to enter the crystal challenge because i'm
going to be doing that and i'll beat you all thank you gentlemen The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and various contributors and do not reflect the policy, position or opinion of any other agency, organisation, employer or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com.
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