Thirty20Eight #319 (S8:E13) It's a Small World After All (Meet Me Under the Tower!)

Whoo! Who is a small world? Please keep your party together as you walk through the turnsides. Children 1807 must be accompanied by the dome. As reminder, there is no public hall or train. Thank you. Welcome to the 3028 show about theme park history and pop culture history. I am Matt Parrish and I am Kevin Quigley. Hey Kevin, it's time to go big. We're going big with the happiest little crews that ever sailed.

Yeah, we're doing it. We're diving back into our season 8 official series. It's been months. We're going through the Disney attractions at the 1964 World's Fair. We came to this series with the greatest intentions knowing that each one was going to be a massive show. We did the first one and we're like, that was so great. Now it's been three and a half years and we are back and so great.

Why does it always take? We always have these grand ambitions and then what happens is, what happens is, this reality sets in and these become giant monolithic shows, just kind of like World's Fair pavilions, giant monoliths. That's exactly what it is. These things were really stud huge, they were super elaborate. They took a lot of research and a lot of reading and putting time into it just like our show. Back so this is great. So the first one was sort of like an overview.

Now we're going to tackle the three attractions, the four attractions that were part of the New York World's Fair and then the fifth one that almost was, which we love talking about the stuff that almost happened. But before we get to that, Matt, don't we have a sponsor? We do. Our sponsor, unlike the, it's a small world PepsiCo pavilion, is the listener. The listener is our sponsor and we want to thank you so much for donating to the show.

We are heading into the fall season. We have lots of great shows planned, including the conclusion of this series at some point and a lot of other fun ideas as we get closer and closer to the end of season eight, beginning of season nine. We would really, really love your donations. We asked for a lot of donations as we started season eight and we are now through the season and believe it or not, the show costs, they never get any cheaper Kevin.

The research and the show, it doesn't ever go down in price. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this about things in America right now. They never go down. No, it's always going up and up and up the cost of hosting the show and producing the show, doing all the design, doing all the research and reading. These shows are pretty involved. Thank you so much for your donations. Also, we appreciate your glorious five-star reviews.

We've gotten a few of those lately and we have absolutely loved them. Thank you for those. We might have time. This is a giant banger of a show. We're going to try to have some time at the end of the show for a couple of five-star reviews. But yeah, we'll get there. Matt, we have so much to get to. We have a whole boat load of fun stuff to talk about. So without any further ado, let's jump in. The New York World's Fair commission put the lid on the 1964-65 World's Fair.

Walt Disney created attractions had more than doubled the attendance of most of the other amusement created for the once-in-a-lifetime fair. For the world, the creative team at Disney took its three-dimensional storytelling to a new level with pavilions, landmarks, and attractions that dazzle generations of guests. Guess who knew Walt Disney the man from television and film, but had never experienced Disneyland received a first-rate exploration into Walt Disney live entertainment.

For Disney, they entered both a new dawn for the company, extending its reach into distant markets, and a capstone on Walt Disney-led projects that would essentially end with projecting Disney World in Florida. At the fair, each of Disney's attractions was as diverse as Disney Land theme park environments. And on this episode of the 3028, we happily set sail into a future fantasy land attraction that debuted at the fair. It's a small world presented by Pepsi inside the Pepsi Unicef pavilion.

So Kevin, before we dive into it's a small world history, do you remember hearing about this attraction like long before you ever went on it? Because I definitely did. So I believe that I, before I ever heard the song, I heard people complaining about the song, like stand up comics or people on Johnny Carson or whatever talking about how annoying this song was. Yeah, so I didn't, I think I don't think I actually heard the song until I actually got to Disney World in my 30s.

Yeah, this was kind of like references to like the Mad Tea Party or commonly referred to as the teacups. I remember seeing an episode of Mr. Belvedere, where one girl said her grandma was going to come speak to the class because she was the first one who ever got sick on the teacups. So I remember hearing about these like Disney pop culture things. They really transcended the park and became part of pop culture. And that's really kind of what it's a small world did through the decades.

Yeah, this is one of those attractions that has seeped in to like the common vernacular people. You mentioned it's a small world and people first know the song and then have an idea about the boat ride. They don't necessarily, even if you've never been on it or been to Disneyland or Disney World or anywhere, you will have a knowledge of this because this is one of the American pop culture things, especially because it has been around for now three or four generations.

So people, all kids have gone on this like from your grandparents all the way down to like your tiny grandkids. Everyone's been able to experience this and it's been continually in the popular vernacular, like I said. And it actually has a distinction Matt and we'll get to the song distinction because I was a little floored by the record that this attraction has broken. Ooh, I like that. I love love new records. So Kevin, let's let's go back and we'll jump into it.

It's been a while. Let's jump let's jump back into the impetus for the fair. We kind of talked about this. Actually, we talked a lot about this in the very first episode of this series. So we will quickly reestablish Disney's partnership with Robert Moses and the New York World's Fair. Why the fair? Because Moses saw in the world's fair an opportunity to transform an eye sore into a park.

And that's really kind of a lot of what Robert Moses is known for in addition to other things that we covered on the first show. But he wanted to take an eye sore that was this giant ash dump in flushing meadows and turn it into something functional, usable and sort of attach his name to it. So he really wanted New York to be chosen as the site of the 1962 World's Fair, but that honor unfortunately for Moses or fortunately went to Seattle instead.

Yeah, and Robert Moses, he was like, he's one of these go getters. There's a whole giant book about him that won the Peel Surprise because he was basically singular minded. He wanted his name, he wanted his legacy to be this like beautiful thing. So he said, all right, well, if the world's fair won't come to me, I will make one of my own.

And so in flushing meadows in this ash field, he's like, I'm going to create a New York World's Fair, even though it's not going to be properly sanctioned by the World's Fair Committee. So he needed partners, he needed to do this, he needed partners, lots and lots of partners, creative and money partners. And so one of the people that he eventually convinced took a little while, eventually convinced was Walt Disney.

And Disney, like Disney, Moses did not like midways or CD stuff. He didn't want to go to like Pleasure Island, not the one in downtown Disney, but the one from Pinocchio.

And he had that. So he needed somebody, Moses needed somebody like Disney to create like these giant big family entertainment attractions have a sense of credibility, sense of a, a, a, a thrill, whimsy, you know, Disneyland had been around long enough that, you know, Disney had even with his whimsy and his childlike ambitions had this sort of gravitas, people knew who Disney was and knew what you were getting when you were going to Disney.

So if you're going to pair with Disney, then people are like, oh, well, you know, I'll go to that fair. If you got Disney on board, well, maybe that, that's enough credibility for me. Well, think of the other institutions at that point that had partnered with Disney, the US government. And that's about it in terms of like, you know, major players. On top of that were just corporate partners that helped him establish Disneyland.

And then of course, ABC and NBC as we see him on TV, but you're right. Walt Disney name his brand, his style of entertainment and film had brought a sense of credibility gravitas to the world's fair and that really lended itself to Moses's success with the fair. As Disney becomes this partner, he and the company begin to partner with lots of different corporations and groups, even other government groups to create attractions for the fair. And of course, one of those is PepsiCo.

We got a whole thing here. So Walt has agreed to three other attractions. And at the almost at the last minute, 11 months before the fair opens, Pepsi approaches him and says, hey, you know, we need you to do this, this thing about, you know, helping the kids, this attraction about, you know, little kids in the world and how they can be helped through UNICEF.

We're going to do it as like a, a, a pay-in to UNICEF. And so Disney's like, oh my god, 11 months, that's not enough time. Great. This is perfect. I can't wait to get on this.

We can do it in nine months. Let's do it in nine months. So they have 11 months. And I want to go a little before we go into how the Imagineers reacted to Walt saying this after their like being worked 20 hour days, I want to tell you like a little behind the scenes why there was such a compressed format. So Pepsi wanted attraction for the world's fair.

They wanted to work with UNICEF. They had a vague idea of like we're going to help the world's children, but they kept rejecting designers. You know, they would, designers would come in and like say, here's an attraction idea. And Pepsi's like no, the dragon their feet. So Bob Gurlator said, finally a year after they should have started, they approached us. And Joan Crawford, whose husband had been on the board of PepsiCo. Yeah, big name here.

Husband had been on the board of PepsiCo. He died and left her all of his shares and all of his power with PepsiCo. So she's a film actress. She's, she was later the subject of the movie Mommy Dearest in the book Mommy Dearest, which is insane. And it could be a little bit about who she really was, but basically the whole concept of Joan Crawford is she's a great actress. She wanted to have kids and couldn't have them. She might not have been a good mother.

And so she wanted, but she wanted this, this concept of her helping children. And so this was a good fit for her and a good fit for she thought for Pepsi.

So it was her suggestion that Pepsi bring Disney on board. Now it's like 10 months from the opening of the fair at this point. Pepsi's board of directors was like about to say, you know what Disney, that you know Disney brings their concepts. They're like, you know what Disney, whatever. No, Joan Crawford puts her foot down and says, no, no, we're doing this with Disney.

It's 10 months. We're not going to get anything better. This looks great to me. We are doing this. It's really funny because the board of directors at Pepsi were like, why do we need this Mickey Mouse thing? This is ridiculous. And Joan Crawford's like, no, we're doing it. So, and she had all the power at that point. So they did it. So Joan Crawford is the reason why we have it to small world.

Joan Crawford of Dynasty fame saved the idea and concept of it's a small world. And by the way, the fact that we're talking about this now, and this is what? Like how many years old is that 60, 60 to the date that we're associating Pepsi still with it's a small world means that it was a good investment for Pepsi because even for fans like us of attractions like this.

We get to associate the two it's not coke it's Pepsi. It's Pepsi. It's Pepsi and it's whatever happened to baby Jane. And it's mob ideas. So these are the things that you're supposed to know. Okay, so Disney gets to go ahead for this. And the Disney team is already a little bit behind Mr. Lincoln. They're building their first standing auto and metronome one that actually gets up from a seat. That's going crazy.

The conveyor for the skyway is not working. Carousel progress lots of animatronics. And they are incredulous that Walt signs them up for a fourth thing. And but it's so for everyone's like, I, their mouths are a gate in this like meeting where Walt's like, hey, we're going to do a fun little boat ride. And everyone's like, how the heck are we going to do a boat ride?

Point Gibson to stay in there with Lincoln's head in his lap like, how are we going to do this? I can't even get the head to stay on the body. Sure will build a boat ride. So basically at this point. And Walt is basically, I wouldn't say he's tyrannical. But basically if he says, hey, you're going to do something. You're going to do it and at the best of your ability. So they're like sure we'll do it.

So Disney has some initial designs for the attraction. This is an attraction focusing on the innocence and need of children around the world. And that makes sense for Disney and UNICEF. Yeah, so UNICEF, if you don't know what that stands for and we've referenced it a million times, I never really defined it. United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund.

And I think they dropped the emergency part at some point. And now it's just like a fun for children. But it was supposed to provide as an organization, provide exposure for and solve the challenges of children across the world.

So providing immunizations, providing nutrition, disaster relief, you know, kind of the things that we saw on TV in the 80s, like Sally Strothers and this kind of stuff. UNICEF was like an official organization through the United Nations that was actually trying to solve many of the world's problems through the body of the United Nations. So it needed money, needed money to do it.

And we know that some of the original designs for UNICEF attraction with Disney involved a walkthrough exhibit exploring sort of the connection and promise of children around the world. And I thought this was so funny because it seems like everything we cover on the show always comes back to the same thing that it was originally a walkthrough.

Pirates of the Caribbean originally walkthrough 20,000 leagues under the sea originally walkthrough on a mansion originally walkthrough like everything's a walkthrough 20,000 leagues under the sea literally was a walkthrough. It was for a little while it was so they were like, yeah, let's do this awesome walkthrough. And everyone's like, you know where this ends up. So they have, they have the the anticipated crowd, the excitement for all the Disney attractions, you know, back in the east.

Disney was like the Disney team was like, I don't think a walkthrough is going to handle the capacity. It's just Disney is too exciting to people, you know, what a what a hard problem to have. But it actually would have been kind of bad if they couldn't service all of the guests that wanted to come in and see the ride.

So what they decided to do was let's come up with a boat ride concept for there's going to be flat bottom boats. They're going to be pushed gently but underwater jets through a continuous canal filled with water. And they realized that the capacity of a walkthrough would have been 750, maybe a thousand people an hour. With the boat ride, we went from Marty Sclar says we went from a maximum ride capacity of a thousand to 3600 people an hour.

And that changes the whole dynamic. Yeah, changes the dynamic of the business. It really gives them ideas for other things they can do with other attractions like we'll see this come up with like Pirates of the Caribbean, as you mentioned. And so they they tap their friends cab they get their friends involved their friends at arrow development manufacturing also known as arrow development later.

They're the ones that helped them construct the ride propulsion mechanism to push the boats along. Now this is fascinating. If you don't know about arrow. Okay, I experienced a lot of arrow attractions at worlds of fun. What I didn't know is how instrumental arrow was in the development of Disneyland. So we often think of Disneyland. We're like, oh, yeah, imagineering and the creative shop and the workshop and they put all this together. And here's Bob Gurren.

He built the towed car and like in the utopia car. And we just think that like that all just happened magically in a room in the back of like the Disney studio or in Glendale later. But no, early days of Disney arrow development helped them develop most of the Disneyland that we would experience and can still experience today. So they developed a water propulsion system for it's a small world. But they also Kevin were instrumental in six of the opening day rides at Disneyland.

Mad Tea Party, King Arthur's Carousel, Mr. Toad, Dumbbell, Casey Jr. Circus Train and Snow White scary adventures were all essentially constructed by arrow. Yeah, arrow is and continues to be for a little while. One of the major like players in the Disney thing before they have like an in house.

You know design and building team they worked with arrow a lot. It's very funny to me. Sometimes and I this will come up again later to sometimes people nowadays are like, oh, they they keep outsourcing all these are these rides to these like ride manufacturers.

They used to build a man house. I wish they would do it the way that Disney used to do it when Disneyland first opened and they forget and they don't know that Disneyland did outsource for a really long time then brought it in house and then outsource again when things got too big.

Very very interesting. So later on they designed and built the ride systems for pirates of the Caribbean adventure through inner space and the haunted mansion and they also improved the guidance system for the submarine voyage and prototyped a four track version of space mountain for Walt Disney World much later on. That came much later on but they like did this whole concept of the four track version so very very interesting. Then in 1971 and we mentioned Dignunis before we love Dignunis.

He opened central shops in 1971 and he tells arrow I have to admit that we could not have done this without you but it's over now. We built this big facility and we're going to do it all ourselves. Everything and arrows like they made it very clear that this was a new era that they now had all the in house capability built up they now could do everything for themselves sure.

So Disney pulls out and sadly Matt arrow sells their business not long after. Nowadays if this was the Eiger Bob Eiger I don't have a Bob Eiger voice. Bob Eiger was part of this they would just buy arrow and just put a Disney label on the front of the building. We like this is where we make our rides and like the back history of arrow would just be like covered up so.

So that's kind of the mechanical parts of the right let's talk about the aesthetic because we know it's a small world iconic how does it begin who are the players at Disney behind the scenes that help make this happen we know Walt Disney is basically the project manager on literally everything while he's alive but there's so many designers former artists current artists engineers who help build Disneyland that help build it's a small world and of course maybe the most I can.

So maybe the most iconic name associated with this attraction is Mary Blair she is like one of the most talented like when you a lot of people think of Disney they think of Mary Blair first her aesthetic and her design sense is so unique and it is people just recognize it automatically whenever you go.

This attraction included some of the best work that she ever did and some of the best work ever that Disney ever did this was like everyone rallied together but Mary Blair was a big part of this so this is very very fun so originally you know one of the challenges that Disney designers noticed was you know how do we design this it was supposed to be gray and futuristic you know sort of this was a Pepsi thing and everything was sort of like hey this is the future of the world

because this is the world's fair right so everything is gray and future in 2001 and so they they like okay we're going to deal with this aesthetic originally Mark Davis who is a really great designer he helped design Bambi he did attractions like a Chanatee Romulator pirates and how to mention and jungle crews so he designs this is sort of this like gray thing that that the aesthetic that they were going for and Walt looks at it and looks around and immediately says hey what's Mary Blair doing

I love that story Mark can you make some spitting teakies or something and find Mary I think she's on her lunch break that's crazy that's a great story so they got to add they want to add whimsy that's what Mary Blair is known for you can go all the way back to like her animation days and even like the scenes of like Ikebaad and Mr. I mean there's so many things that she's known for artistically that then come to life when she's given the opportunity to do it in three dimensional

steric storytelling and that really happens with it's a small world yes she was actually one of these people who had like children's books out of the time I think she she did some little golden books and they had this style so this this is the style she's already thinking like you know placing things in sort of a

whimsical storybook world and so she comes up with like a she comes up with the concept of the building you know you need all the this whimsical thing this sort of very mid century modern but there's also like this sort of Dutch influence yes yes it's in very geometric and it's really really amazing so she contributes the color palette of the facade she dresses up the gray and of course the look of the children of the world

so she like learns about other cultures and she brings them into the design of the costumes that the kids in the attraction are going to wear so first off it's like the look of the place very colorful now and then it's the look of the inside which is you know they decided that they're going to do a bunch of dolls from that represent the kids of the world

and they're all going to be wearing costumes and traditional garb from those countries and regions that are represented some really really great websites out there that show her artwork some people own a lot of her artwork that comes from this era but she's really the brainchild behind the color palette within the attraction whether it's the show scenes or the dolls themselves the whole concept kind of comes from her brain and you're right it was very Dutch I don't know if that's that like

1940s Ikebod crane like new Amsterdam I don't know what it is that sort of finds its way into it's a small world and some of her other projects you know later she's known for like these western motifs but here heavy in the sort of Dutch styleings and interpretation but you're right it's like opening up a story book and learning and understanding which comes up later the story book concept but that's what Mary Blair does and that's what Walt Disney did I mean essentially taking those cautionary

tales from grim and Hans Christian Anderson et cetera and sort of opening them up and disnifying them is a skill that both Walt had and Mary Blair had and if you look at the aesthetic it's very interesting the her aesthetic was basically taking the psychedelia of the age and making it palatable for kids who aren't into psychedelics you know what I mean it's like

this is a it's mainstreaming that psychedelia and and it's it's like shapes and geometry and dots and all this and stuff and making it fun and it's so much more musical and how it's so fascinating to me the whole mid century modern thing basically took a lot of you know basic geometry and made them just a little bit more fun and that's what she's done here along with her color palette

yeah she really funded up that's exactly what happened it's a fun hot Kevin and we call it fun hot yeah it's a fun hot yeah it's so let's talk about somebody else who contributed to this project another key designer from faces in form is our friend Blaine Gibson I talked about him holding the head of Lincoln as he was introduced to the little boat ride that would only take 11 months

Blaine Gibson started as an in between her with Disney and so he's basically plusing up the sketches that come from the animators before they go to the ink and painters and on the side he's doing sculpture art in his free time at the Pasadena City College and so Walt recognizes this he goes to like one of Blaine Gibson's exhibits hey Walt we come to my show sure

goes out there and it's like boy you're really talented he jumps on at wed in 1954 and the rest is history so we know Blaine Gibson from a ton of work the faces of the pirates of the Caribbean pirates the Hall of Presidents authentic faces and forms that come to life inside that attraction

and a dozen other things the partner statue so he's a sculptor for Disney for many decades people that love Disney history know his name and so his responsibility was essentially providing that face form that would sort of create a unity between the different cultures and children of the world the different

ethnicities within the world all had a very similar look and we can think Blaine for that yeah basically and this is so neat this is a top down thing they're like okay look at what Mary Blair does and it's not like an animosity thing either this is so cool look at what Mary Blair does and then all you other

designers do that but also use your expertise in this and it was such a brilliant thing I think this is one of the first attractions and maybe Tiki room no Tiki room came later that really did this saying okay we have a design aesthetic of one of the

we're going to use that and then all you other designers you know play to those strengths but also use your own thoughts and stuff and this is what Blaine Gibson did well that's that actually comes from animation because what you had were like model builders and then the animators would take from those

models and sort of interpret them or even some kind sometimes even change the characters but you can have a an ethnic group from China look exactly like an ethnic group from from you know North America on it's a small they have to look different is Oblin Gibson's expertise came in there here's Mary Blair with the concept here's Blaine Gibson really refining that for the faces of the children right so now we come to other key designers

Claude Cotes and Mark Davis are tasked with doing the show scenes so one of the unique aspects of it's a small world the difference from all the other world's fair attractions that we're going to get to is the design of the sets this is a really long attraction for the fair it's really long at nine minutes it gets longer later on when it goes to the parks but Disney who is concerned with the show wants to make sure that the guests have the right vantage point of the dolls and all the other

show scenes on the attraction so to ensure their seamless design Disney asks Claude Cotes who's this imaginary legend to lay out the river that would allow for multiple cultures and countries to be housed in the same large rooms basically do this river and make sure that everywhere that people are looking that are you know they're there's sort of forced to look for perspective there's something interesting to look at and you also have to make sure that these these giant

kind of open spaces contain enough difference that you know that you're going from one area to another in the world that's exactly right think of how huge huge it's I mean right it's a small world now and look at the size and scope of those giant rooms that you enter and then think about how you actually perceive that you're looking at different cultures as you go you have

to do that in a way that makes sense to the guest and so the concept there is create the sort of winding river that around every turn pops up a new cultural exhibit and within that exhibit are the people that are supposed to come from those cultures so Claude Cotes is tasked with like that design and then Mark Davis is tasked with creating those show scenes that make sure that you understand the differences between the

countries and cultures so they're taking these giant spaces this is sort of the opposite of pirates where they have limited space and they need to create these giant areas here they have these giant areas and they're trying to create an intimate experience so that you are you know face to face with these dolls and you know getting an emotional reaction from them existing and you know and and also the show scenes that are around them so your whole thought is I'm looking at this this Irish doll

and the concept of Ireland is behind them and they're like sitting and doing Irish things I guess and you have to get that entire concept of what you're seeing all at once in a way that isn't challenging that doesn't make you have to think even hard it just you need to look and understand immediately and that is what Claude Cotes and Mark Davis are doing here

and Marty Sklar who's like the arbiter of all things Disney history for about a 10 year period he did a bunch of interviews and he said that they actually built the sets for it's a small world on the Disney studio lot and so the boats were all placed in sort of in a linear form and the way that they would go through the attraction and then you could see from the boats you know at eye level how you were supposed to eventually see it on the attraction

and then you could see that this attraction is going to be reconstructed in New York right so they built this all on the and it might seem like normal now or something but like back then that was a wild thing because the only Disneyland we had was you know handful of miles from where the attractions were created now they have to take them all the way across the country

perfect them on the studio lot and then take them and reassemble them in New York by the way fun fact Marty Sklar is the one who came up with the term the happiest cruise that ever say oh yeah yes nice yeah so the river is 1400 feet in length 500 dolls with kinetic movements they're going to eventually sing we'll get there and so they all have to either be there's three types of dolls right there's dolls that are singing there's dolls that are dancing or doing an activity

and dolls that are playing an instrument those are the three types here and so they have to all of them have to move there none of them are not moving so this is 500 dolls and so this takes a lot of effort to first design and build and then move across the country and rebuild what you're there so this is insane so even though Mark Davis's initial design aesthetic was pushed aside from Mary Blair's

he is he really helps to create all the different environments that explains everything so the Italian dolls look like they're in Venice French dolls look like they're near the Eiffel Tower Polynesian children would be standing on surfboards and so on we have some specs here the dolls were each three feet tall and designed an authentic costumes designed by Mark and Alice Davis and these are our next imagineers yeah so costuming is done by Alice Davis and she's key at the New York World's Fair

carousel of progress she's known for that I actually spoke with Alice Davis via phone in my wedway radio days and she told us about fitting out fitting the father character in carousel of progress and some of the high jinks that went along with that which is kind of awesome

so Alice Davis super cool lady Mary to Mark Davis and her big thing was creating the costumes we take this for granted and you have to understand and know what these costumes should look like and then someone has to actually put those together so that they make sense

and that was Alice Davis's job and she was all about functional costuming you're like well why would you need a functional costume for an animatronic because they break so she had to create things like Velcro fastening so that they could quickly be fixed like when they were doing the

father's outfit on carousel of progress same thing is true for all these little animatronics on it's a small world being able to get inside that Velcro and reset or fix the pneumatic you know functions of the particular animatronic is something that she was known for so her costuming for Disney is legendary as was Mark Davis's imagining scenes and sets and cloth codes putting together ride concepts

these people were geniuses who were not necessarily appreciated in their time but now with all of the Disney historical journeys that we've taken now can sort of bring their work to life it's so fastening you know to realize that yeah it's not just how it looks and how it's sewn together but how it functions I remember I like to always bring in with with social media has to say about this stuff

I remember there was a something that some ride that came out I think Ariel had to be redressed at one point and so it says that doesn't cost much it only costs like what 25 dollars to just get a new dress and I'm like you have no idea what goes into this stuff

it was amazing so so Matt so this is fun we talked about this the small world vessels were you know the boats the lot bottom boats that were going they originally had a name called the phanta c fa nta and then capital S e a pre cursor to this society for explorers and adventures maybe there is a weird bonkers reason why they couldn't do fantasy for these boats Matt wanted to tell the the listeners yeah yeah so fantasy it makes

total sense right because you have fantasia and so you want to you're bringing to life this sort of fantasy world of like interacting children but Disney wanted to use the fantasy because it made sense but when Disney and Pepsi Cola realized that phanta was a subsidiary of Coca Cola Pepsi's biggest rival they had to drop the name phanta oh boy phanta phanta want to phanta yeah that's hilarious to me we will talk a little bit more about Coca Cola and how they almost

sponsored a different attraction of the world's fair that is in an upcoming episode of our series so let's take a look at the show itself so it was called at this point it's still called children of the world when they're first designing it children of the world a full color through show scenes featuring children from six continents they always leave out in our naka I don't know why it was always the plan but the initial

plan included the idea that the doll children would sing national anthems from each of their respective nations so when you pass spain they would sing the spain national anthem Spanish national anthem and then the same with the United States and France whatever and what happens is the beginning of Mickey's Philharmonic everything's like it's cacophonous it's bad it's totally disharmoned disharmonious disharmonious disharmonious disharmonious disharmonious it was let's just say it was a cluster

because remember these are big rooms and you're merging from the Netherlands into Spain into France etc and they're all singing their own national anthems and it's just blending together in a in the worst possible way yeah and the whole concept of its a small world is a unity you know you're supposed to be thinking about how we're all alike rather than all different so the national anthems actually kind of says hey guess how different we all are so what rubber what

Walt Disney decides to do is hey we're going to go to the Sherman brothers who were at that point working on the music for Mary Poppins and he's like hey I need a simple song for this attraction I need something like a like a round delay like row row row your boat so that it could be melodious but in it was simple that could be repeated over and over in different languages

but also like if you're coming in from one area and another language is singing it it has the same like meter and it keeps it has the same melody and so Richard Sherman suggested doing a counterpoint song one that has two melodies which could be used both singly and simultaneously so you think of the verses and the chorus and they have different words and different sort of timbers but they are very similar they could they can be sung together and not sound disharmonious

it is harmonious dis harmonious so this is funny there's another imaginary or Harriet Burns and she remembers Walt talking to the Sherman brothers and saying and using the phrase oh it's a small world after all say Walt is saying that to the Sherman brothers and the Sherman brothers like well that's a great line we're just going to use that in the song

and Walt then takes the that you know repeated phrase and makes the name of the attraction so it's really really funny that basically Walt can say hey every name the attraction in a round about way but it was in a round delay mark in a round delay way so it's funny because so that when they first presented to Walt it's played as a slow ballad and I can't even imagine like in my head I'm thinking of the ballad of the green berets playing

I was thinking of hair ballads like every rose as a horn yes yes definitely poison is the first one that came to mind or extreme as it was the 90s more than words so and Walt's like hey can this be you know peppy it's about the kids of the world and I we should help them

we're not going to focus on the sadness of them and so the Sherman brothers increased the tempo sings the song at counterpoint and Walt is like I love this we're going to call it it's a small world we're going to name it this and the Sherman brothers this is so funny too

the Sherman brothers realized they were going to be doing these in other languages so they had to like go to listen to other languages and translate it for the dolls to sing and so everything worked out for almost all languages except the French which sounded apparently quote communistic

unquote and I don't even know what that means I don't know were they trying to like give kids free school lunch or something how could they do that why would the French do this okay Kevin quickly I just want to I just want to can I throw in this quick anecdote real fast I had the opportunity years ago my friend Colleen lawyer great lady lawyers know all kinds of people I don't know if you knew this

but she was like hey do you want to talk to one of the Sherman brothers sons or how about both of them and each of the Sherman brothers and their sons who are cousins I was like yeah so I talked to the Sherman brothers sons and they told me

that at one point the brothers because of the success of the song were like Walt they've been like writing in the car with Walt and they're like Walt we don't you know we feel so strongly about what we did for unicef we want to donate the proceeds of the song to unicef and Walt like slammed on the brakes

and was like you will not give away the rights to the song this song is going to put your children through college and that's how smart Walt was about things like he recognize what worked and what didn't even if he didn't make it what's funny about that is that the Sherman brothers they here's the fun fact I mentioned at the top of the episode

this is the most performed song of all time because it plays in so many it like 16 hours a day all day long in five different theme parks around the world this is considered the most performed song of all time and there's some dispute because it's not played on the radio or whatever yesterday as otherwise the one by the Beatles but the the Sherman brothers were once asked hey so you must be rich off the song they're like well

we don't get paid for it being played in the park at all that was a one time deal we get we get paid if it's played in like a movie or something but not if it's played in the park so they've had a plenty of royalties after this but all the all the money that it's it's made or all the play times it's played in Disneyland Disney World everywhere in a Disney park they get nothing for that they were paid a one time fee and that would make sense I mean especially for the time I don't think that hit radio play

at any point in time do you remember anything like that I mean no it was not a single it this was not like we don't talk about Bruno this wasn't like a whole new world okay I wonder because it did it did release on Disneyland records I know that and so I would assume they got royalties from that yeah so they get royalties from the record

and you know they had a they had a book they had a vinyl LP they had a sing along and read along for kids for this later on but and so they definitely got royalties from that all the publishing they got royalties from just not the performances in the parks

ah yes and so another thing I learned about the song and this makes sense to is that this is a really layered song like on the minds of the Sherman brothers when the writing this you're thinking of like the children of the world and unity but really like the Cuban missile crisis was going on when they were writing this song and so there's like denuclearization on their minds and like the Cuban missile crisis and thinking of a world that's much brighter than the sort of dark days of that era so there's a lot of layers to the attraction

and I always thought it was fascinating like what's on the minds of people when they write the song I mean it's easy to think that they were just like let's write a song about the positive things that you know human collaboration can bring and like respecting other cultures but also there's like a dark world happening at the same time it's kind of like when you listen to tears for fears and you're like oh everybody wants to rule the world that sounds cool but like it was really everybody wants to go to war and you find out the backstory of why they wrote the song and that was really cool

and that was really the Sherman's at the time too is like dealing with these real world things and trying to create a song for an attraction that's about like the promise of children Well and it's also interesting you know a lot of people think of this song they hear the song like oh this sappy song whatever but if you listen to lyrics you know they talk about a world of fears and you know all this other stuff

so the the perception of this song is it's proud to be an American I'm proud to be an American but the reality of this song is born in USA it is a little bit darker and a little bit more about the real world than you really think it is a it's a little bit misinterpreted it's saying we want unity we want all this stuff but the real world is a little bit scary and not always understandable so it's really really interesting

so let's talk a little bit about PepsiCo and what is there and why Pepsi existed the fair and what what the heck were they doing yeah PepsiCo like a lot of other companies that debuted at the fair like general electric and the Ford Motor Company PepsiCo wants a pavilion to engage with the soda drinking public or those that don't even drink soda maybe soda is new to different parts of the world

throughout the Pepsi pavilion they had a number of different exhibits and shops quickly those these are all things that sat adjacent in front of it's a small world they had a Pepsi bar Kevin I love these bars we talk about Pepsi bars and I'm not talking about like Trader Sam's I'm talking about soda bar not juice bar

they have those in Missouri different concept but Kevin you remember it tomorrow land they had the milk bar the dairy bar and the space bar it didn't sell space it sold treats the space bar is just one of the best names of any bar ever basically this is like club cool right this is it's it's so well it's more like the coke rooftop bar Disney Springs right now

yes it's exactly like that you go up there you can sample different Pepsi's and you know they wanted to introduce you to the product or just give you something cool to drink on a hot day fair was open during the summer so that all makes sense and so these all all of these sat outside the pavilion itself where it's a small world was housed

they also had a number of shops and like different interactive areas this is very like future early days of future world at at the up cut center they had a place called help for children they didn't really get dynamic with these names it sold a unicef greeting cards books games and posters and all the proceeds went to support unicef they also had a gift shop

underneath the tower which I thought was fascinating I was thought of the tower is like literally like its own thing like the Eiffel Tower but no beneath it was kind of like rocket tower plaza where beneath it was an actual shop and they had merchandise based on the ride which was apparently the most popular that they sold they had literature about unicef and people were encouraged to make more unicef donations because your ride fee full of the money

for it's a small world went directly to unicef so Matt you mentioned the tower of the four wins we're going to get into this we couldn't think of any better place to have this in our discussion of the world's fair and this is a great place for it so

tower of the four wins Walt wants Rolly Crump to design a marquee for the front of its a small world and it's his idea to do something called the tower of the four wins so Rolly had already contributed to the queue of the four magic skyway will get to that in a later world's fair show but so the way Walt is with miniatures Rolly Crump is with Wurley gigs and what remembers that tidbit about Rolly and says okay design me something with all your Wurley gigs and make it a tower I want it to be like a grand thing

in front of its a small world so Rolly designs its like cute little tower with all these like little smaller towers and spinning things and Wurley gigs everywhere and we have to remember the first the very first thing he designed for a Disneyland Park where the like Tiki's in the for quarter of the Tiki room so he's still sort of new to all this is like I'm not an engineer I'm trying to think like an engineer think, click an engineer. So he wanted all these moving parts of the tower of the four

winds to be sort of interconnected, but with separate things to look at. So it's all kinetic all the time. There's this movement constantly. So he creates this model and Walt loves it. And you can see this. There's a picture of the famous picture of like the tower of the four winds with Raleigh Crump looking like a surfer dude standing behind it.

It's pretty big and it's like this like wispy lines on it. It's very geometric. It's it is very much like it's a small rolled and married blazer aesthetic with a lot of the Raleigh Crump whirlie gigs and sort of the thin lines that he likes. So he creates this model. Walt loves it. They send it out to this place called the Kellite Corporation. And they build it. They're known for building structures as opposed to Arrow, which were

known for building rides. And it comes back and Walt and Raleigh go out to look at it. And Walt says to Raleigh, Hey, so what do you think? What do you think of this tower? And Raleigh says, I didn't know my little design was going to have to be built to withstand hurricane winds. All of it looks big and clunky. All these wispy lines I had are thick things. I hate to tell you Walt, but I think it's a piece of crap. And Walt says, it's amazing. Because

he wanted, he wanted, you know, his honest minion. And Walt says, no, no, Raleigh, this cost me $200,000. So it can't be a piece of crap. And so when Walt says it's not a piece of crap, it's not a piece of crap. So the tour the four winds, it's installed. It's great. It's amazing. And now it makes sense why it never comes back to anywhere. After the air, they're like, just leave that there. We don't, yeah, we like, if you forget that,

if you don't have space, that's okay. What's so funny is that nowadays, everybody thinks the tower of the four winds is one of the best things the Disney's ever done. And it is. It looks amazing, even in like pictures and whatever. But it, yeah, Raleigh and Raleigh didn't like it. I don't know if Walt liked it, but the designer just hated it. So Matt said, you know, the United States Committee for UNICEF had a gift shop under the tower.

And this is great. But what he didn't mention was that there was a VIP lounge hidden underneath the tower just above the gift shop. We did a whole loungeology. We forgot about this. So one of the cool things about the lounge is that there were some Disney characters walking around in front of it's a small world. And some unpleasant encounters happened. Basically,

I think the ruffians of 1964 did not treat the walk around characters kindly. So what Disney ended up doing was having them walk around sort of this parapet around the VIP lounge and looking in the windows and being whimsical up there away from the matting crowd. That was trying to punch piglet out or whatever. Just absurd. This is like presaging COVID. They're like, there's Donald. Oh, he's behind a big gate. I can't get to it. Oh, look, he's

on a wrap. Yeah, it's a caravan of characters. Oh, they're on a small John boat. I can't get down to them. I can merely wave. Or there's my favorite Star Wars characters. Oh, they're far away up on a pedestal. Yeah, this is weird. When I see those pictures of the Pepsi Pavillion, I see that picture of Mickey Mouse. And he's not interacting with the guests. He's literally up above like a balcony. Oh, yeah, he can't be near the guest. People

do not. It's so funny. Like everyone loves Mickey Mouse, except for the ones who really don't like Mickey Mouse. Also, Disney was, this is so funny. I didn't know this was a, I guess I must have known it on some level. The catch phrase, people know this in the Disney

world, Disney community now, meet me beneath the tower. It's a whimsical phrase. But Disney was very adamant about this phrase being used by cast members and making sure guests were saying it just so that they could get more people to come to it's a small world. They didn't have anything to worry about though, Matt, because this was an immediate success. Yeah, this was huge. This was huge. Over 10 million people enjoyed the happiest little

crews that ever sailed around the world at the world's fair. 64 and 65. Remember the fair like takes a hiatus and then comes back the next summer because it was so popular. The attraction was one of the most popular at the fair. It proved successful to both Pepsi and Unicef. It proved successful for Disney. We talked about this early in the show like it becomes part of like the zeitgeist of pop culture and transcends Disney in a weird

you know way that doesn't make a lot of sense. We talked about the money that it generated for Unicef. That was really a big deal. And so it kind of made sense then that with all of this creative development, the work that Arrow did, the work that Disney did, all the Imagineers that were part of this project that they would find a home for this back at Disneyland after the fair. Well, this is one of the prerequisites that Walt had. You

know, Robert Moses kept saying, Hey, hey, Disney, come on and do stuff in my fair. And Walt kept saying, No, I don't think so. And then he's like, Okay, when the fair is done, you can take all your attractions back to Disneyland. And he's like, All right, cool. Because you know, Robert Moses is going to help put the bill for all this stuff. And there

was no way Disney was going to be able to afford all of it by himself. So sure, I'll do this thing for you for like two seasons and then have it for the rest of Disneyland store. Why not? So it's relocated to Disneyland. So this is very interesting. So construction starts June 1965 after the World's Fair is over June 1965 construction starts on it's a small world at Disneyland. It's going to be the new home in Anaheim and Matt alluded to

this. Unfortunately, the expensive moving the tower of the four winds proved to be prohibitive. There are rumors rumors that it was cut up for scrap metal and thrown into a river. So that's the only rumor I've ever heard. So at some point, like, is that true? I think it's true. It seems true. It seems true. So there's so much work that goes into moving and restoring the show. They Disney had to create a new subsidiary company known as MAPO MAPO by the way,

named after Mary Poppins. And that had to be created to be able to like move, relocate, refurbish and expand this attraction. That's right. There was a ton of costs. They needed to get new sponsorship money for this. Believe it or not, if I'm not mistaken, Pepsi had another attraction that they already sponsored at the time in Disneyland. Is that accurate? That is accurate. They had, they were sponsoring the Golden Horseshoe at the time at Disneyland.

Love the Golden Horseshoe. Yeah. So that makes sense. And so when Disney moves, it's a small one. By the way, they've already moved this twice. When they move it back to Disney, back to California, they get a bank of America on board. And this kind of makes sense. Like, there's a bank of America all over the world. And so if you need to borrow money, that might make you think of other cultures and other people or other cultures and other people might

want to borrow money. So associating yourself with Bank of America makes sense. And B of A was also a major Disneyland sponsor as they created Disneyland. That actually helped quite a bit in terms of funding the project. And then I think the relationship with ABC helped pay back some of that B of A loan. So we have a fun fact here. So we mentioned that Pepsi had been, it was already a sponsor for the Golden Horseshoe review at Disneyland. And kept

sponsoring it. They love their dealings with Disney. They did not like it's a small world. He did. It's a small world. When it was moved, they're like, we're not going to sponsor this anymore. Later on in a 1980 book called The Pavilion, which was published to publicize the Pepsi exhibit for expo 70 in Japan, the company in that book says we find small, it's a small world show to be an embarrassment. They felt that the attraction did not showcase

Pepsi and was seemed to be too kitty oriented. So as late as 1980 Pepsi is reflecting on this attraction that everybody loves that is such a big deal in the whole world and is still considering it one of the worst things they've ever done. It's bizarre. They needed all of the dolls to be holding a Pepsi. I mean, really in a perfect world, that's what would have happened for Pepsi. It wouldn't have been about unicef in this grand vision and

improving on the present. It would have been about drinking Pepsi's. And what's crazy is we've talked about attractions where even carousel of progress. They're like, check out my new general electric mixer. And the products are definitely just a product placement throughout the actual attraction on the ride, even as it comes back to Disneyland. But Pepsi didn't get that benefit. You know, it just occurred to me. I like to buy the world of

Coke is basically it's a small world, but for Coke. It's true. Oh my god. It's so true. It's what Pepsi wanted to do and didn't do. I couldn't do that. They just didn't get over the hump. It's all the people holding hands drinking the coax. Oh, that is amazing. Oh my god. How did we never put that together? That's amazing. That is insane. Oh my god. Okay. So, um, so the attraction moves to Disneyland and it's changed a lot. It changes

significantly from the New York presentation. The show building wanted, they wanted it to be one third larger. So, Raleigh Crump says the New York sets were placed in the same order at Disneyland. Some are a little different left or right side, but they added a lot. The European section was built at least a third larger than the world's fair. They didn't have a North Pole area at the fair. So, they designed that, Raleigh Crump designed that

for Disneyland along with the islands of the Pacific. Yay, Raleigh, Raleigh Crump is now known for being the Polynesian guy. So, they had to rebuild every set that was at the fair. Re-Canvas Repaint, Re-Flitter them, which I think means with glitter, and then add another third to the ride. They also had to get back together with Arrow to improve the water propulsion. They found a lot of things when they went to New York like people

in New York wear coats. And sometimes that bogs down the boats. And in fact, they've actually redone the boats a few times. They had to redo the boats like 15 years ago because they were, this is really like, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but it was like people are heavier than they were in the 60s. And so it was like bogging down the boats. And so they had to redesign the boats themselves. They didn't rename them fantasy, which I wish

they would have when they redesigned the boats. But they've redesigned the boats many times and redesigned the water propulsion. I think that if we start calling them the fantasy boats, I think people are going to eventually fall in line. People are going to just start using it in their vernacular. I'd say, I've said vernacular seven times on the show.

So, you know, Mary Blair is the patron saint of this ride. And so immediately, so when they go back to Disneyland, Walt says, Hey, Mary, we need a new facade for this ride for the Disneyland version of a cake. Can you do this? And she's like, absolutely. So she turns in a Mary Blair type facade design concept. And it is very Mary Blair. It is very

it's a small world. It's also extremely colorful. And the problem with how colorful it is is that in the California sun, all of these colors are going to fade real fast in the cost of repainting and redoing all of these colors would be prohibitive. So in an exact inverse of what happened at the world's fair, Walt says, Hey, Rolly Crump, can you gray this up for us? That's so weird. I did not know that. That makes total sense, though. That's crazy.

Yeah, he makes it. So, Rolly Crump is like, Yes, sure. I know the Mary Blair aesthetic. I'm going to make it white with gold accents. And it's going to make, if it bleaches a little bit, that's fine because it's already white. So what he would say is I took her drawing, I looked her drawings. They're geometrical in a lot of ways. And he traced them and built little block models from her drawings. He's like, during the whole two year period, working

with Mary Blair on it's a small world, I've been studying what she's been doing. And he basically was able to understand her intent even when he wasn't executing her direct vision. So one fun fact here, I love all these fun facts. The structure required so much gold leaf that it used all the gold leaf in the United States. And Disney had to get some from Germany to finish the job. And the gold leaf from Germany tarnished real quick and had to be replaced

by American gold leaf later on. So this is amazing. So they're designing stuff inside. And they bring, they're doing, you know, lean tower pizza, they're doing, you know, the Eiffel Tower. And Raleigh Crump is the one who says, Hey, Mary Blair is like the best thing about this thing. Can we have a Mary Blair? It's a small world doll on the Eiffel Tower. And they're like, Oh, absolutely, let's do this.

And to, and as a sort of a dendom, as they make changes to the attraction here, the facade becomes a big deal because they actually are, you know, creating this building from scratch, as you mentioned, Walt himself, who was basically a world traveler at the time came up with the idea of the European clock clock and spiel. And he basically, this would be an extension

of something that he would have seen on his travels. And we know that Walt, you know, went to Zermatt and he went all the, a lot of Western Europe, but basically Blair draws up a small black and white sketch on a napkin and Crump transforms it into the 30 foot high version, which I don't know about you, but like when I think of it's a small world, the Disneyland, I often first think of that Glockenspiel.

Yeah. And, and this, you know, that clock that European clock that Walt was fascinated with, is the reason for this and it is the reason for the birds and it's a small and, and, and Chantatee Quirome. He loved just the idea of like mechanical things. Um, so, Robert Crump was like, sure, you know, I love the Glockenspiel idea. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this thing where you know, the nine figures are gonna come out of the block of the clock and like, you

know, on, on certain times, in certain hours. And Walt's like, uh, hey, no, there are 24 hours in a day. There needs to be 24 characters. I don't know how the, the Imagineers in the 60s didn't like go completely mental on Walt at every moment. I mean, this would be like Kevin, can you make more podcasts? Wouldn't you just be like, yeah, I can. I can't do that. I have 11 months. I can't do this. I get sure let's, let's make 2017 podcasts. Like

you sure. Um, other neat things about the clock. So the door's on a clock open every quarter hour. There's a parade of character characters figures. And then the door's closed again. It is a functioning clock. It takes it is in real time. You know, that tick, tick, tick, tick sound. It used to be made by two metal rods that would lift and drop and hit wooden blocks next to speakers. This is amazing. And until like the 1980s, that's how that song sound

happened. Uh, it was replaced in the 80s by a recording of that. Um, so it's just amazing that they were using all this very analog, very, uh, classic stuff. So this opens at Disneyland May 28, 1966 sponsored by Bank of America. Um, there are, it's a huge deal when this opens. There's Bank of America dignitaries. There's 36 foreign consular officials, 800 members of the press press and the international children's choir of Long Beach. Um, and a parade of

like folk dancing groups, because it's the 60s. Um, and so Walt gets children from 16 different ethnic groups to four, to pour flasks of water from the seven seas and the nine major lagoons around the world into the waterway for the attraction. So this is authentic. It had to be flown in at significant expense from all these different countries. Uh, but Walt wanted this to be authentic. I wanted, he not only wanted it to be authentic. He

wanted it to look authentic. Um, and normally it's the other way around, uh, but he really wanted this to have a full like world feel. It's weird. Like he wants it to be so authentic, but the charm of it is that it's its own thing, right? It's, it's such a weird contrast.

Uh, they, they also mirrored this activity in the rivers of America. Walt Disney World dumping in different, you know, of the Ohio and the Mississippi and the Missouri into the rivers of America to create an authenticity, uh, when you're cruising around on the, on the Liberty

Bell. So I think, yeah, I love that when Disney is sort of ceremonial about its attractions and connecting them to like world, like real world things, like the Liberty Bell and like the seal of the president, like bringing those things into the Disney space and people who have never seen them get to see them or experience them for the first time. So there is something to adding authenticity to something that's really just an amalgam of other historical

things. There's a, there's a tenant in Tiki. The, the term is, uh, authentically inauthentic. And that's sort of the, the basis of, you know, a lot of Disney stuff too. I also think that they did that water thing in the world showcase lagoon. I could be wrong about that. I think there was an Epcot situation where that happened. But Matt, let's talk about some, some reverberations from its small world, starting in New Tomorrowland. So Mary Blair, her

work proved really inspirational for Disney and the guests. Her interpretation of the needs of the children, the importance of their health and safety and beauty led to her inclusion in the reconfiguration of Tomorrowland of the 1960s with the, it's a small world mural. Yeah, yeah, it's the, it's the Tomorrowland mural. And today that would be like on the side of, um, the facade of like where Star Tours is inside Disney lands, Tomorrowland. And so

there was this giant mural there for like decades. And it basically sort of mirrored what was, it was an echo kind of of what it's a small world was accepted included like planets and

like balloons and like, uh, environments in the distance. Kind of like almost like a precursor to like the prologue and the promise, but maybe in more of like a, um, an interpretive way and using the sort of dolls or characters from it's a small world to like look at the future, a children's view of the future in inspirational art on the mural in Tomorrowland. So there's an interesting connection that is in Disney land that goes way beyond it's

a small world. I always think that's fascinating. And then of course when Walt Disney World opens in 1971, it's a small world is there. I think it's so funny that Pepsi is like, this is two for kids and the only thing like my dad and my stepdad's like favorite attractions were always it's a small world. And thank goodness they included it at Walt Disney World because I got to experience it as a kid and I was an adult with kids. It's awesome.

Yeah. And what's interesting about this is that you know, the Disney land version, um, starts outside. It's an outside interaction. And, uh, you know, there's all these topiaries and then the big white and gold facade with fantasy land with the one in fantasy land in Walt Disney World, Magic Kingdom. Uh, it's inside, you know, that whole fantasy land concept of like a per billion, um, you know, all these like fantasy fair type buildings.

And so it's sort of inside that. But when you get inside, there's a very colorful facade inside that is more reminiscent of Mary Blaire's original thought than the Raleigh Trump golden white version. Yeah. That's really interesting. And I never would have known that today. Some of that has been whitened up with gold leaf. But it's very colorful. Those pastel blues and oranges, um, and, and pinks and corals that were supposed to be on the facade of the

Disneyland version come to life inside the Walt Disney World version. And of course, it's not an outside in loader because of the weather in, uh, Florida. So that makes sense why you have to go in and the exterior facade is that fantasy land fair concept, which everything kind of was in those early days. And it sits across from Peter Pan, which has the same thing, um, Disney lands fantasy land gets a full refurb in the exterior plaza

of fantasy land to make it look like you're going into these chalets. And really the Walt Disney World version, there's some chalets, but then the fantasy land fair concept kind of lives on, but beyond the castle. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, I kind of just love fans. We'll talk about new fantasy land at some other point too, because it's, it's, it's interesting the way that it keeps building on itself. Um, but later theme park stuff.

So it's a small world is in almost every Disney theme park across the globe around the globe. No, we live on a flat earth. Anyway, so Disneyland, uh, in California, Magic Kingdom in Florida, Tokyo Disneyland in Japan, Disneyland Park in Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland in China, not in Shanghai for some reason. Um, maybe they already had, because they have that boat ride at the beginning of the park, which is amazing. Uh, maybe they didn't need another

boat ride. And one, one thing, this is so weird. One thing that happened, uh, is Disneyland, Disneyland version, uh, from January to November, 2008, uh, it's a small world went down and came back up after a major refurbishment. And the refurbishment added 29 Disney characters to the true Disney, the, the original Disney eat ticket ride. Now I want to, I want to preface this by saying I got into Disney in 2008. This is around the time I got into

it. And I remember one of the very first people I talked about, because I knew this person was a Disney person. And I was like, Hey, I just got into Disney. Tell me more about Disney. And he's like, I'll never go there again. And I was like, why? You've only ever talked about this every day since I've known you. And he's like, they're changing. It's a small

world and adding all these characters and ruining everything. And I was like, Oh, and that was not only my introduction to Disney, uh, itself, but an introduction to Disney fandom. So thanks, Roy for that. Um, so this has been fascinating. He was giving you a realistic expectation, Kevin, of what it was going to be like. Just a soup song of what Twitter

was eventually going to happen. Uh, very, very interesting. So this is interesting. So this is our, even though this was the fourth attraction built, uh, for the world's fair, this is the first one we want to talk about because it really kind of sets a tone for what we're going to be discussing about the, uh, the world's fair attractions. Uh, you know, it's a small world is a message of hope. It's a message of unity. It's a message

of, uh, future technology and how that benefits humankind. Uh, and I, I love that this is the first one that we're really digging into because that message of hope, uh, continues throughout Disney parks and throughout, you know, our history. Well, Kevin, uh, this has

been a lot of fun. I like diving into 64 world's fair attractions, just the fair itself. Uh, I want to talk a little bit about the legacy of this attraction that's a little more concrete, I guess, um, when a real Del Tempo, River of Time opens in world showcase in the Mexico Pavilion at Epcot to the Epcot Center, there's an, it's a small world like conclusion to that attraction where you're in a sort of celebratory fair. Dolls are dancing. There's

fake fireworks on the ceiling. A, a very, uh, fun song is playing. I thought it was so interesting that they homage. It's a small world over in Epcot. I guess this makes sense who are we trying to engage in this attraction families? And so that makes sense, I guess, at the end. Yeah, I love that. Uh, I love that. But when I first saw it, I was like, was

this originally in small world and they moved it over here? And, uh, no, it's just, it's a really neat like, uh, version of Mexico that you're seeing, like as interpreted through the eyes of sort of Mary Blair, but even though she didn't, uh, do this part, um, but it's, it's her aesthetic in, uh, in the Mexico, it's so great. It's one of my favorite things. So and then, uh, in the early 2010s, you'll remember this movie tomorrow land came out

in theaters. Do you remember this movie coming out? I remember it coming out. I don't remember seeing it because I wanted to go see it and then it got really bad reviews, uh, and then it went away and then after it went away, everyone's like, oh, it was actually really good. The same thing happened with John Carter. Uh, people like, oh, we pre judged it too harshly and apparently it was actually really good. Yeah, it's interesting. It's, uh, it's

a Brad Bird story with Damon Lindelof who at that time was famous for lost. Um, it's our George Clooney and Britt Robertson when she was younger. And so it had popular actors in it and stuff. But, uh, one of the interesting thing is that they had this like portal in it and the, to actually get into the portal, the boy and the story Frank Walker, he has

to go to the New York World's Fair and ride. It's a small world with this sort of T pin, like a pen you'd put on your shirt, P.I.N. and the, uh, it's a small world attraction allows him to travel through time, which I thought was very fascinating. So when this came out, at least in the 2010s, Nate and I were still doing, uh, uh, the webway show. And

I remember being fascinated that they like took us back to the world's fair. And remember, this is also the same time when Iron Man 2 comes out and John Favreau takes us to flushing meadows where the fair was held and, and, and Iron Man flies through it at the beginning of the film. So there was a lot of focus on the 64 world's fair right in that same time. And, and now we're getting to this 12, you know, it's some 12 years later.

But it's a small world or a version of it can be seen at the beginning of that film. I, I also want to point out this is very weird that I know this. Um, but in 2017, also in the 2010s, Tom Hanks wrote a book, uh, and it, you know, a bunch of short story books called Uncommon Type. And a lot of it is his set in the 1964 world's fair. Uh, very

weird that this all happened around the same time. Yeah. It is strange. I don't know. I mean, I guess it's just like the older part of Gen X, like, or maybe like the youngest part of the boomers, like getting an identity for like their childhood. I don't know. It's kind of weird. My mom would have been 14. She's 74. She would have been 14 when the fair opened. And I'll have to ask her, like, does she remember this happening? I

don't think we've ever really talked about that. And whether or not it was like news that made it its way to the Midwest. She definitely remembered like Mickey Mouse Club and all this stuff on TV. But I don't know if the world's fair was like something that, you know, traveled into the Midwest and out west. I'm not really sure. But it definitely, you know, made its mark on people who wrote stories and made films in the early part of the 2000s.

Yeah. My, my dad was eight years old and living in New York State at the time. I wonder if he knew about this back then. That's interesting. I'm going to ask him. I'm going to talk to him this weekend and I'll ask him then because that's fascinating. But Matt, this has been great. This has been a really fun way to start this. I'm really very, like, I'm amped for the rest of these shows. I am too. And thank you to Pepsi for funding this attraction in the

early days. I am a diet doctor, pepper drinker. But if they had not partnered, we would not know this attraction in the way we do. And I only say that because there is an attraction we get to talk about on this series that never came to form. And so the fact that, you know, we had UNICEF and Pepsi and Disney all involved in these amazing, imagineers. And we still get to experience this today. I think that's just so cool. I really, I still love traveling

on it's a small world. It's, it's like a, you know, it's that gentle boat ride. It's a nice reprieve in your magic kingdom day, which can be a little bit hectic. And I just really love this attraction. Have always loved it. And it's so cool that it's connected to the fair. I never knew that as a kid. Only as an adult when I began to study this stuff, did I, you know, uncover that all of these things were connected. And I just think that's

a special thing. I remember first listening to, uh, Wide Wide Radio and you guys were talking about the New York World's Fair. I'm like, what does this have to do with Disney? I don't understand what the whole big deal is about the New York World's Fair. And so it took me a while to understand like what this whole deal was, but I love it. I love all

this stuff. And the fact that, you know, this is something that was created, like I said, for two seasons and then given to Disney after, you know, he, Robert Moses helped fund all this and then Disney just gets to keep it forever. And we get this. So that, that's thrilling to me that something that was sort of created for a couple seasons is still

something that we can enjoy today. I can't get enough about great that is. So anyway, so thank you everyone for listening to this second part two of the New York World's Fair, Disney at the New York World's Fair. So good. We are halfway through more than halfway through the season and we're getting to episode two. Great. So thank you so much for listening. We have, we have. I got a review. I got a review, Kev. Oh, yeah, we've

got to read some reviews. All right. This one is from the end of July. It's from aluminum Karen. Perfect episode for aluminum Karen here because we're talking about the mid century. It says a glorious five star review to all something I can't read the rest, but mostly the 3028 Matt and Kevin, you produce the best podcasts on Disney topics. I love your varied topics, your humor and lightheartedness and the preparation you put into each episode.

But most of all, I love your relationship with each other, which comes through so clearly in your conversations. You clearly see each other as equal partners and respect what each of you brings to the topic. Thank you for the time you spend preparing great episodes. Even when doing quote unquote opinion shows, you develop finite lists that allow the shows to proceed fluidly. I feel like I should write some grand closing statement, but Kevin,

you have the market cornered on that. So instead, I'll just end by raising my teaky drink in your honor. Congolue. Oh my god. This is amazing. All right. So I have a one star review. And this is it's trust me. It's fun. I will give you a five star review. If you admit that Judy holiday deserve the Oscar for born yesterday, love you guys. One star review from Zap Jones. All right. I'm going to say this right now. Judy holiday definitely deserve the

Oscar for born yesterday. Everyone knows that. That's common knowledge. So please reframe your one star review as a five star review. Thank you so much. I have one more actual five star review. Talk about fun on a bun by Shamrock. Oh, 13. These fellows are wonderful souls. They are like a delicious Thai curry and that they have depth of flavor, knowledge, and always make you want to come back for more. I love it. Do you think Uncle O'Grimmacy wrote that?

I know that he introduced us to the Shamrock shake as discussed on our McDonald Land USA show. Uncle O'Grimmacy. Did you see the by the way? Did you see the the icon or the character they developed for the Paris Olympics? Snoop Dogg was calling it baby grimace, which I thought was the funniest thing. It's a little red blob. By the way, someone told me grimace is a grape. He's not a grape. He's not a grape. Oh no, I don't like this mascot. Oh no. No, no, I know.

I don't think you're dog like to me. He's like, I'm down with grimace. But who is this? And he's got a little car. Yeah, I know this. I don't get it at all. I don't like anything about this. Basically mascots basically ended with gritty. You don't have to make another one. Gritty is the pinnacle. We don't need another one now. Thank you. I feel it out for you for gritty.

Anyway, so as we're going to Matt and I are going to regroup, we're going to re-prepare because doing this episode, this was a what three month long research in writing process. And we have to do another one next week. So this is like when a band spends all their like five years developing their first album and then it's a hit. And then the next, the record company is like, hey, you have to do another one next year. No, no. Second helping by Leonard

Skinner. What's the one after what's the story morning glory by Oasis? He was like, I wrote it in a weekend. Definitely maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Exactly. He was like, I knew it sucked. I knew it was terrible, but we had to put out something because they were making us. I was like, yeah, it was okay. It wasn't that bad. Thanks for listening. Please leave a five star review. We will try to read it on the show. Please leave a donation. Those, I think those are pretty dry. The coffers are dry.

You have the buttons are in the show notes. And you can find them there just like the Tower of the Four Winds where you can donate beneath the tower. You can always donate beneath the play button on the Apple podcast app. Just click the link. We will talk to you soon, Lee here on the 3028. Thank you so much for staying with us for season eight. Yeah. And from all of us here at 3028 to all of you out there, thanks so much for listening and see you real soon.

I can't believe I got our Leonard Skinner reference in. It's a giant intro for a little bitty boat ride. It's tiny, tiny, just kind of a little bitty.