I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but have you ever been listening to, let's say, R&B, right? And then you look at all the girls who are doing R&B, for example, even the guys and all of them just somehow by luck, all of them seem to just miraculously all be attractive. I don't know if you've ever not. Been attractive? Have you ever? It's incredible, especially conventional. Right. Yo, what's up guys? And welcome to episode 138 of
the 30% podcast. I go by the name AFA Mefina. My Co host goes by the name Sam Jedediah Ari and we are the 30% podcast, a podcast dedicated to Kenyan music where we talk about what's happening, what's popping, and we give you our insight from the perspective of two Kenyan music producers. Sam, what you up to? Actually, before you tell us what you're up to, I have a question for you. So. So I want to ask you this question. It's a philosophical ish type.
Of fun. OK, I love me some philosophy. No, it's not philosophical. No, no, no, no. It's actually not philosophical like that, but like it's a would you rather, but would you rather as a kind of like philosophical questions. If you think about it anyway, would you rather be on death row for a crime that you did not commit? No. And the most important person in your life is free, but they
committed the crime. So whoever the most important person in your life is like, maybe it's your mom who committed the crime, but you're on death row for that in her place. Or would you rather be free? No, wait, hold on. Or would you rather be free and the most important person in your life is on death row for a crime you committed? If. You commit the crime, you do the time. That's it, man. I'm so sorry. Like, yeah, you did something terrible. Listen, I love you with all my heart.
I would bring you. What do you call commissary? I'll, I'll, I'll help you out. But you you have to go sit down, man. Go. Go sit and just think about make better choices. So you would. You would, so you wouldn't be on death row on behalf of the most important person in your life. That doesn't make sense, no. Like if you had a child. So if you had a child, let's say you had a child, you only. Child, I don't like this because it's going to make me sound terrible. It's going to make me sound
terrible. I had an only child and that only child decided to do OK. Did this only child asking the question? No did this only child did they caught like when he was out with a gang and and they it was annoying. He did the crime knowingly. It's not like something was pinned on him. He actually didn't knowingly. No, listen, listen. We're not even getting into specifics. No, we have to get into specifics because I'm not going to sit down on on, on a very unspecific issue.
I'm not going to. I'm not going to lose my life. We're not doing that for unspecifics. No, we have to get into specifics. No, listen, Hey, you do the crime, you do that. So you, you wow, really? So which, which option would you rather then? So you'd rather the second one, somebody sitting in for a crime that you committed? You know you only have two options here. Only if I don't know about it. If I know about it, then yeah,
I've done the time. No. You know about it. You know about it, you know. This will never happen in real life. Like if I've done the crime, I'm not just going to let someone, the guilt will kill me. Are you kidding me? Someone is on death row for something I did and I know about it and I'm just sitting around and, and this it's someone who I know and love. That's not going to happen. The guilt will absolutely die before that person is is sits on that chair. I'll, I'll be done.
So essentially what you're saying is you'd rather the first option, which is sitting in for somebody who's important to you? No. If they did the crime, no. You only have two options. Some this is, some you only have two. Would you rather this is the problem with would you rather though that's such imperfect scenarios, like it doesn't make much sense. There's such imperfect scenarios. Yeah, no. Because it's meant no, because it's meant to put you on in like on the spot.
That's why. That's why would you rather. Putting me on two different spots at work. That's not how this works. That's not how there's no OK what would you rather do? That's how would you rather? Oh, I, I, no, I would rather sit in for the person who I love, like who's the most important to me. Yeah, I'd, I'd, I'd take that charge, man. Oh, like if we're talking about the two options, like I'm not going to like, like be free when I know somebody.
All right, let's. Let's like who I love is sitting in. Let's make this interesting. You just won the lottery, $600 million. OK, no one knows it but. You million or billion? No mill 600 million or billion that's. OK, let's let's make it, let's make it a light 200 billion, just a light very light 200, a very light achievable 200 billion, right? So you just you just stumbled on that Elon Musk just slid you a couple of dollars, right And then, OK. Let's not make it Elon, because
I don't like that guy. But OK, 200 billion, I'm I'm on board. I'm on board. Not Elon. Then pick a random Kenyan billionaire and that your love don't commit a crime and then you have to go sit down for it. But you can't give this money to them. It's either you spend it or it doesn't get spent at all. Are you still going to sit down or would you would you prefer? Wait, what's your question? Would you? Would you still? Prefer that option or would you would you rather be outside and
spend your money? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. So wait, I just want to get the question right. So I I got 200 billion. It's the same scenario you asked. Me. The only difference is you have money. You just got 200, Bill. Oh, I don't want death row for life. Yeah, I mean, death row is like that. I mean. Yeah, yeah. You don't get, you don't get easy. They definitely won't give you that to you. There's nothing you can buy in prison for that much.
So yeah, that money is just going to waste. Away and I and I can't pass on that money. No, no. You. You can't. If anyone else knows about that money, it's gone. And I'm sitting in for something. Just say, just just say you're going to be out. No, no, no. Just say you're going to be. I'm sitting in. No, Sam, I'm sitting in for something that they did. Yeah, no, no spending the money. I told you all you need to do, All you need to do is throw in some money and it makes these
choices way easier. Would you rather it would be a lot easier to just bring some amount into it? That's that's crazy, but it's facts though. Thanks for being. On I'm so ashamed at how I've switched off, but I'm I'm so yeah. Yeah, myself. Now we know what you value. Bringing me if. You want affirm to do anything? For you, no what? Look what you're. Doing D hem in DM1 with a with with an amount and D. Hem, yeah. D Hem. Let's all make fun of something D Hem.
No, not after your moral, your moral. Some have you been? Have you what you what you've been up to, man? Yeah, I've been cool staying outside of the snow. Well, it's not snowing, but it feels like it. It's terribly cold and I've, yeah, just been chilling on on Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, I was outside. I was outside. The legendary Flyer was playing Love Flyer. His his. I think he's a very he's a very
conscious musician. His lyrics are always laden with truth and activism and something. And meaning? And meaning, yes, so and he doesn't do much shows. So once I heard that he was he was out at the Beer District on this past Wednesday. So it was cool. I got there a little bit late just because I'm so sorry. I underestimated. I was like, OK, I'm going to go there and you know it's going to be light. I'm just going to find a spot. I got there and that place was packed.
Flyer had everyone outside. It was such a cool thing to see though. Just seeing his growth and then everyone who was rocking with him, singing his songs word for word and everything like that was that was amazing. So shout out to him. So that's what I was doing that I tried to go out for that. I wanted to go out for Lisa and Chris Bars, 2 musicians who I absolutely love. They they had a show, I want to say maybe it was Thursday, Thursday or Friday, I don't remember.
I wanted to go for that, but I couldn't. I felt so bummed by that. But I'm just trying to go, trying to go for more shows and see more artists outside as well as DJs and whatnot. So yeah, that's really what I've been up to. Apart from that, nothing else interesting. I've been watching Married at First Sight. I don't know whether that's interesting enough. It's such an interesting show. Like it's, it's just, it's. What is it about?
It's it's exactly what it is. Married at first sight, where the first time they it's reality. You meet your wife or husband for the first time when you're marrying them, and then you go. Hey, Sam, Sam, listen, listen, listen. Only one podcaster at a time is allowed to watch reality TV. We're giving. No, I don't watch a lot of reality TV. It's just Married at First Sight, it's Survivor, and it's Amazing Race. All the others are kind of ridiculous to me. Your survivor.
No survivor bangs man. Survivor is actually low key very underrated. It's. Good, I didn't know you were a survivor. I'm a huge survivor. You're a. Survivor first wait. It's it's I stopped watching it though because started making me feel bad because people are so vindictive. I feel I feel negative energy when they just backstab each other in blind side. I just feel bad because it's like why? And they're starving. What was your starving bro?
What was your favorite season? Real quick, what's your favorite? I don't know what my favorites. Ah man, I might have to do some some research. Mine has to be season Season 20 Heroes versus villains. Mine is the one that one was is the one with poverty. That's what it was do. You remember poverty, The legendary poverty. Oh, Pavati, Pavati. The, the, the, yeah, I think that's season. I believe that's like season 16. Yeah, something like that.
My my other favorite season. And then we I promise you guys, this is a music industry podcast. But then I think my favorite season is the one for what was his name? He was such a likable guy. He wore glasses. I found it. My favorite season was I think it was the David versus Goliath season because everybody loves a season where it's like about underdogs, like the people who get bullied in. School versus it doesn't matter because they're going to end up
getting switched up at some. I know, I know, I know, I know. Like, it's always so like, it doesn't make sense like at the end of the season, but oh, Christian was my guy, bro. I was the biggest Christian fan. Like, like, I don't know why. I really just resonated with his vibe. Like he was so cool. Anyway, enough about Survivor, more about me surviving New York. So what I've been up to is I know, I know. I really worked on that one. Yeah, I know.
I've been, I've been good listening to a bunch of music. As you guys might know, I have a series where I highlight music on my TikTok and I've just been going down the rabbit hole just finding artists and stuff like that and it's so fun. It's so fun. I've actually been finding like some really, really dope talented Kenyan artists and I'm like bro, why does this song have 1000 views on YouTube? I'm like this should be so much more. I found some guy called Mark Bruce.
So fired. Like shout out to him. These are these are the guys super and dance. Although they had like they're starting to like really, really pop off. They had like a post on Nairobi Gossip club. So it's just it's just really fun. They have a song called Nico on that's like an abandoned song called Nico on that's like starting to like pop off and I'm just like it's so fun. It's fun finding those. Gems, man, like then one of the yeah, it's. Exactly, just to like discover
something amazing. Like, like, I can't imagine, like the first person who like, I don't know, listen to let's say Wadaglis, for example. And it's like you these guys are going to pop off or like, you know, toxic, really Cali. And you're like, yo, this is the future. And and then he actually goes on to like become the biggest or one of the biggest artists of 2025. Like I I just love that feeling of being there before something
happens. So yeah, I was just kind of spent my whole week chasing that, chasing that feeling, definitely. Oh man. Yeah, I'm chasing the dragon, bro. That's my dragon right there, man. Actually, what does that mean? I don't, I think. I feel like that's the dragon has like. Yeah, it's it has to do with it. I feel like it has a dark feeling. Yeah, it's more used in in drug circles, just in the dragon. It's just in the high, the first
high you get when you take. Oh, that's what That's what it. Is so you spend the rest of your life trying to chase the time, but you're never going to get there. That's why you do more and more and you get sensitized to it. Oh, what did you think? What did you think it was? I don't, I don't know. I thought it was. Not saying epic. So you thought they were talking about actual Dragons? It was a saying. Oh goodness. Yeah, better. It was just Dragons anyway. No, it's not.
So let's get into the podcast today. So there's a there's a conversation I want to have with you, Sam. And so there's this producer, he's called Liza Classic. I say this producer, but he's worked with Wasafi. And he's like one of the biggest producers and engineers out of out of East Africa, I would say, but then mostly East Africa. And he he, he went on a posting spree on his story, kind of talking about the fact that nobody cares about your music unless you're popular.
And he gave a few examples about how the, your, you know, you could have the greatest music, but if you're not popular, people are not going to flock around your music to listen to you. And he gave the example that, you know, a lot of the popularity that we see, you know, like there's a lot that goes into it. Sometimes there's going to be somebody funding the popularity of finding just this conversation starters behind these artists and stuff like that.
Usually it might be a label and they'll take a percentage because, you know, that's kind of how you get people to pay attention to you or just even indulge in in your music. And I wanted to, to, to ask, do you do you agree with this? Like, do you think it's true? Like nobody cares about your music unless you're popular. Does that actually hold any weight? You just with that, with that question, I think you just triggered every artist everywhere and just taking the flashbacks.
They haven't flashbacks, just crying, going back and listening to the older songs. I think it's true. I think it's very true. I think it's true because of how society functions. I think people, people are. When you live in a community, you tend to gravitate towards the community so that you can have some sort of acceptance, feeling, a feeling of belonging. And so it doesn't matter what
you like individually. A lot of the times, of course, I think, I think that's changed recently because people are, there's, there's a bigger, there's a bigger story in terms of being yourself and being your true self. And that's something that has been pushed recently.
But it doesn't matter what you like individually because it's it's like, it's like when you, when you go for a show or you go, let's say you're hanging out with your friends and they pass you the ox and the song you've been vibing to the whole week, just having a blast. You have it on repeat numerous times and then you play it and, and you get no reaction from, I don't know if you've heard those words before. Absolutely no reaction from everyone. And it's just like, OK, who is this?
It's really cool. The feeling you feel inside is like, oh snap. Like is there something wrong with my taste? And that's just how society. It's like you have been stabbed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Stabbed like you betrayed yourself, like you're not that cool anymore. And this is how society is is we tend to gravitate towards what other people think is cool. So when it comes to a musician, definitely because music, music is a very it speaks to people
individually and as community. And so there's there are times where you will not really get much attention because the individuals that you're speaking to are not part of the mass or they don't, they don't belong to that whole group musically at least. So it's only when the group gets window view, that's when everything starts to move and meaning is only given to numbers unfortunately.
Wait, wait, wait. So are you trying to tell me that that's what like the artist listening to this podcast need to start chasing because bro, there's only so much popularity can do for you. I know that's a difficult question, but how? How far can popularity really take? You. Well, popularity effects everything. It does, but like we've seen some artists who have high popularity but they're not that much talent and eventually it
fizzles out. Unfortunately, popularity doesn't lend itself to longevity. Yeah, unfortunately the industry is not geared towards longevity anymore either way. So it I guess it works for everyone and they're actually looking for. Yeah, but it's true. They're actually looking like, if you think about it like with the the labels are not looking for stars anymore. They're looking for popular
people. They're looking for people with numbers and traction, mostly on social media, so they're just. Looking for a quick lick. They're looking for Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and now they're signing songs that blew up overnight with no intention of growing that artists and signing them for ridiculous numbers. And so it's just that popularity. But that OK. But in my opinion that feels very very short sighted though I don't know. Well, it's short sighted from your point of view from the
level levels point. From my narrow perspective. From my itsy bitsy perspective. Yeah, from from your very ill informed. Wait, wait, so are you, are you trying to say that like from the label, it's just like these people are extremely replaceable. So like you can you you go with what's hot for the next 6 months, then you find the next one for the next 6 months, then you find the next one for the next 6 months and you just keep
on surviving. That, that's the thing I don't I don't even think the labels are they're thinking about who can we replace? I don't think they're good They're not thinking about the person they're thinking about what that person can do. And so it's like this is hot right now let's get get a contract ready and cash in and then it's like really quick investments. So they're not investing in people they're investing in
moments and songs. And so now as an artist, if your song isn't popular, you're you have a very small chance now that trickles down to like the indie artist level. The artist was just starting out because again, you could post all you want to post on social media and everything, but then the moment, the moment ADJ plays, let's say you're doing EDM, the moment ADJ plays that Afro house joint that you made and because of the nature of being, because of the nature of
the dance floor, right? And people will hear the song and it just came at the right time. The DJ slotted it in right after that pre banger and slotted in your song and now everyone is vibing to it. Now that Shazam's go up and all of a sudden you have a hit on your hands. That song has been out for a
year, right? It's been out for a year, but no one knew it. The only now and that's when people really start rocking with you and that's when all the opportunities come in. Before that, I'm pretty sure some of these artists, like artists like Sophie and Zoe and them, they were releasing music before, but the moment they got that hit and they became Uber popular, that's where now everyone, the phone phones start buzzing. It's terrible, but that's. But that's super annoying to me.
But that's super annoying to me. So are you are you trying to say like song X could? So, so let's talk about song X in the context of two separate futures or two separate timelines. So some song X could have been released and it just did absolutely nothing. And but then the same song X could have been released and then for some reason goes viral or gets popular and the same the song gets cheated completely differently just because of how
people. Completely different, yeah, because of how people, because our people took it, that's how the. Context in which they they. Yeah, that's happened to where where artists have released released music. The release song may be taken off of us and maybe redone one verse a little bit or switch the hook around and done something. And then they release the same song that did not do well. Then all of a sudden it blows up and now everybody's like, bro, this is the most amazing thing.
So much so that they go back and delete the old one and completely get rid of any trace of it. But that's just because it was accepted. Now that it's accepted, now all of a sudden that song has worth. Which is ridiculous. OK, but I I, but I I I, I disagree. I disagree with the sentiment that. So for me personally, I think guess what Liza class classic is saying is true. Like popularity is the thing that sells or no one cares about your music unless you're popular.
But I think that's a pathway that only ends in tears because that popularity only lasts for so long. And then after that you're you're finished, you're done and people will move on to someone, someone else. So me personally, I would say as an artist, like I think it's better to chase longevity than it is to chase popularity because yeah, fine, you can get the hit song today or not even
the hit song. You can you can you can do the you can make the viral TikTok that makes you super popular today, but generally, how long are you going to be able to keep that yeah. How long are you going to be able to keep up that attention and and then what happens to your music once that attention fades away?
You know what I mean? So I think it's better to invest in your music and then just figure out a way where like the popularity and the music kind of like intersect and you start doing well because honestly, it just ends up in tears. Like you see the likes of and I know this is not a Kenyan example but like ice spice bro. Where is she bro? Where did she go? What happened to Ice Spice, by the way? What's Ice Spice doing today?
And and she gets so much hate nowadays anytime she releases music because it's just like this shit is trash or whatever, but but everybody. It's the same music. When she used to release. Me. Yeah, the same music. And the problem is no, but the problem is but but some, some the problem is the same people who hyped you up during your popularity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's same people who are going to shit on your music when it's when those are when the
popularity isn't like. Those are the sheepiest of the sheep. Honestly, those people are the they're the worst. They're the ones who like when a wolf shows up they they run into the middle of the park so that they don't get eaten first. Those that's sheep sheep mentality. It's terrible popularity Has very negative Popularity in music I guess has very negative, not negative. Sorry. It has a bunch of cons #1 not all good music is popular,
right? Sometimes people choose just the most ratchet music for for and, and makes, makes it popular. And that of course, would now affect the, the, the field. Because if the labels are controlling everything and they look at that kind of music as all right, this is really what's selling, then they're going to start telling their bigger
artists to go towards that. We've seen that a lot in the industry where artists have come out saying that the label forced them to do something that they were not comfortable with. And it's just all in the name of all right, This is what the people are even. And big artists go through that too. It's not just a smaller artist where because popularity is equals to money. That's the direct translation. So they end up just compromising and it's terrible. And as a new and and.
And, but, but I, I, I think, sorry, sorry to interrupt, but I'm just going to say it like, I feel like the, the, what the music industry does in chasing popularity, it really limits just how broad and diverse the music industry could be. Because like, like you see, and I've, and this is something that I've talked about before about just how, I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but have you ever been listening
to, let's say, R&B, right? And then you look at all the girls who are doing R&B, for example, even the guys, and all of them just somehow by luck, all of them seem to just miraculously all be attractive. I don't know if you've ever. Mentioned any attractive have you ever It's incredible, especially conventional. Right. Like it's, it's, it's, it's such a weird like observation I've made. Like there's no way all of these
people just are. Like all of them seem to just be conventionally attractive just like that. That's really horrible. No way that's terrible. It's. Unless it's something that the music industry is is intentionally doing. Because let's face it, being attractive is linked to popularity. If you're attractive, people want to like like. They have a higher tolerance. For you people, people want to interact with you way more
exactly right? And it's so stupid in my opinion because, and I don't know if this is a mean thing to say, non conventionally attractive people make good music too, right? That also have talent, but the truth we are, there's talent. There's talent there, man. That's something that only exists in talent. Is that something that only exists in the female industry? Do that for men as well. No, it it it doesn't. But it's it's way more
prevalent. In the female in the female, well, we know that because of just how like, I mean how females tend to be the face of beauty in the world, so. But it's it's stupid in my opinion man. Like because most of the most of the non conventionally attractive like artists end up either just being left behind as like songwriters. That's so sad bro, that's so sad
but that's crazy. But then also also the non conventionally attractive artists need to do way more because let's be honest, there's still people who aren't like heralded as conventionally attractive who still like break the mold and and do very well. But they have to be. Incredibly. Talented, like super, really talented to really, really break the mold and like do something that's crazy, you know what I mean?
Or have this longevity, like you have to be like really insanely good to do that at the same time. And it's just sucks, man. Like, I don't know, this whole popularity thing and then it being attached to fashion or looks and this and that and the third like. Yeah. What would you advise to an artist? Let's say you have you, you, you. You have a label, you have a new artist, and they're kind of going through this, this dilemma of trying to make popular music versus trying to stay true,
true, true to themselves. Goodness. What would you advise them? What, what, what, what are you trying to? Or rather, what type of mentality would you try and build up in a young artist to be able to navigate? Well #1 you #1 you always have to stay true to yourself, otherwise you will get extremely burnt out, like they will reach a point where you just cannot keep up the facade. So you always have to be true to yourself. You know what I mean?
And we see this happen all the time where artists, like, they jump out of the gate being super weird and different and quirky just to gain attention. And then once they get the success, they kind of revert to their default settings, IE Billie Eilish, for example. You know, we saw how she popped off and then get after that whole hype and that whole phase kind of went back to the what she's actually like.
Yeah, what she's actually like, which which, you know, I really like both versions of Billie Eilish, right. So you always have to stay authentic. J. Cole, usually he had an interview where he said the music industry requires you to give before you can take. And that's that's also wise.
But to a certain extent, he's like back in when he started out, he used to like kind of feed into the stereotype of hip hop and wear chains and be outside with all the girls and in the parties and all that stuff because that's what people wanted to see. And then once he got, I know. But once he got to his level of success, he went back into himself. He grew out his dreads and. Bought a bike? He started riding his bike around, Yeah, he's not riding his bike around New York, like,
and that's who he actually. Ran into him he. Gave the industry what it No, not yet, I will. No, if you do, if you do, tell him I make. It's cross, Sam. It's crossed my mind. Well, I'm sorry to tell you this, Sam, but I will tell him I make the beats. First, no bro, you have to put your friend down before you. What kind of There's no loyalty in this world? No, I'm loyal to you, but like I will ask. Him I have divisions on J. Cole. I'm sorry bro.
If I was out there I'd I'd say alpha beats before I say make. I make beats. What kind of friend are you bro? This is crazy. That is, that is just human nature. But anyway, but it has crossed my mind, yeah, because you do the same. Because you do the same. Anyway, it's crossed my mind if I'd run into him. But anyway, the point is, yeah, to some extent you do have to give the industry what it wants before you can take what you want from it.
That, but that you see, there's a line there because how much do you want to give the industry? And, and, and, and that's where your morals kind of like come into question because you can go down a deep dark Rd. If you're just giving the industry everything it wants and that's a conversation for another day. It can get very deep.
And I guess it's on my point just to wrap up, I so we shouldn't always demonize popularity because popularity is really what takes like small artists to the big stage. Like once your music becomes popular, then you can earn off it. So it's I think it just depends on what popularity is being used for. If it's been used for like a quick leak and just getting some quick money and or whatever, then that's when it feels like you're cheapening the art. But then if you're actually
working. And I think we do not good, sorry to interrupt, but like I do think we need to demonize it because unfortunately it's the it's the former and not the latter because most times or more often than not, it's used for the quick leaks. Can we say that? Used for the surface level or short sighted like goals. But all the small artists do. And because. Yes, I do agree with you. Become big because of popularity, so without it you don't really have much.
It's a catalyst to the next level, I guess. So I guess then what you're saying is like, who is using the oh, who is using popularity as a tool? Because most times when the, when, when the machine is using it, it's, it's nefarious. I don't know. I, I'm still torn nefarious. I'm still torn, though. I, I, I feel like I'm still, I still wish good music would shine through because it's good, not because the artist is popular. Nope, not when money is
involved, I guess. Nope. Hey, if you're a small artist, don't worry about popularity. Just worry about making good music. Worry about making good music and just keep making good music. And at some point, someone will like it so much that they'll share to with their friend and that friend will like, like there's a point where your music just starts to live and just just gets life becomes alive. And that's when you get traction. But you have to keep stressing
until then. So and that's that's words to everyone, including myself. Yeah, words to live by. Yeah, I was asking, do you want to talk about some popular artists who happen to have a show in France? Yeah, but this might be the 70th time in a row we're talking about Bien. But then Bien was out there having a show in France, Matata Matata, who were actually present in the the the they showed up one of the days for the. The beat camp the beat.
Camp, yeah, they showed up on one of the days came and then they were really rocking with some stuff. Then they had to leave. I guess they went to France. They didn't come back, but yeah, yeah, they're supposed to return in the evening. I just do that a lot. Oh, man, we're really rocking with this. Man, This is crazy. This. And then they went the next. Time you saw them. You saw them like in front of a. Car yeah like yo bro, like what
we're working on a song. I thought you were going to come down and leave vocals. I thought you said that this this one was a nature the most with you. But anyway, so they were out there, sold their show out, which is great. That's good news, isn't it for us. Wow. Sorry to interrupt. Wait, sorry to interrupt you, but artists need to stop doing that. Artists always be in the studio sessions with each other saying yo this shit is this shit is is astronomical man.
Yo, we need to read this. The one. Yo, we got one bro. We got one man. Yeah, bro, whole time, you know, they know in their head we're never working again. They just tried to make the producer because producers, producers are very, we're very fragile beings. Our feelings must be protected. Our feelings must be protected. Oh yeah, Producers were so sad. Producers were just like, Oh my God, I have a song with this guy
called All time. This guy doesn't care about that at. All at all doesn't care. But anyway, just lie to me. Lie to me, please. So they were out there, sold out show that. That's a good show too. I'm thinking like Bien and Matata is a really good show. Did they? I don't want to be wrong, but do they have a collaboration together? Yeah, it's called, it's called mfishi. Mfishi. It came out two months ago. Yeah, it's a it's a hit. It's a hit. It's a hit, hit.
Having a collaboration together, I'm sure they're they're out there performing that song and it's just cool. It's cool, it's cool. I love to see sold out shows from Kenyan artists who are not necessarily based out. OK well no, Matata is based out there though. Based out in Norway? That's BN is based here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Norway, I knew it was. I knew it was one of those Scandinavian.
But here I was saying the interesting thing about France is, bro, France is really tapped into like African music like they are really. And then I guess it's because a lot of Africans are out there. Well, that's 1/2 of the joke. The other half is not so. OK, colonialism does have a part to play this because hey, look at you look at the France like the French national team and it's a bunch of Africans, right?
So, yeah, there is, there is an undeniable link between African music and France. And yeah, I, I, I like it. I like, I like the fact that they're out there.
I hope they're really collaborating with the artists out there as well, because there is definitely a market for African music in in France. I'm telling you all right now, because I was watching, I was just watching people out there for the music and a lot of them were consuming a lot of like Lingala, that Coupe de Cali sound like bro, that stuff out there is so massive. There's another song that goes we, we, we, we, OK, I don't that sound crazy right now, but that
song is so good, bro. It's like, it's like. Because I wouldn't pick that up at all. Bro, no, no, Shazam would pick that song up bro. It's so catchy. Yeah, the song, the song is called Bandit by this girl group called Holly G and it's called and the song well in brackets it's called Wee Wee Wee. It's so catchy. But that's the sound out there. So you know, I'm also, I'm trying to see some Kenyans hope
on this sound as well. So I don't know, maybe we might hear BN. The question, though, is that would French music work here? We're always talking, I think we're always talking about, about whether or not our music would work outside. But then like, is there a chance for the reverse? Like if they collaborate if either Bien or Matata or all of them collaborate with a French artist. Like will it do well here?
I think it would. I think it would because I mean, we've seen, I know this isn't necessarily like French music, but I've know a lot of French artists have also hopped on like the compa wave and everything. And that's starting to like make inroads into the Kenyan industry from people like In Bien to Ben so ETC. So and Hendrick Sam has been a big proponent of making compa like a more mainstream sound.
So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely sure that like people would be open, like people are beginning to be open to like these different like avenues of like African music that's not just Afrobeat. So definitely see a future where like this and if anything, me, I'm all on the wave man. We have already started making like some like. Are you doing compa music? Stuff. Like are you making compa? Not compa, No, no, no, not compa, but like like just like the Afro trap stuff that's been
happening. No, I I but I can't. Are you trying to say that I can't? Are you? Trying to challenge. I'm just trying to say I just, I can't see it. I can't see if I'm in the studio saying hi today we're going to make a compa beat. I but I can if I wanted to I. Can if I wanted to, but you wouldn't. You would never wanted to. You would never want just to. That's the thing, on your own, you wanna. Do you wanna bet? I guess I. Can let's bet if you make a competent is fire.
I will go on social media and no, I'm not going to put. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was so locked. In because no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's so boring, bro. I was actually so ready, but I was already thinking about I've got to do this. Please give me a good, Give me a no no, give me a good. Oh no, man, what could be OK? You know what you choose, you choose choose something that would happen if you actually make a compa beat at, but you need to raise the stakes.
Because if I make a compa beat like, we need to raise the stakes. If I make a good compa beat, right, you have to go on social media, OK actually, but we need we need people to like judge if the beat is. Actually, here's a good yeah, but yeah, here's the this. Is the 4th. There has to be other people involved. It just can be. That's fine, because I'm just going to say that's. Fine, we can even leave it. We can leave it out to the to the to our like the people who listen to the podcast.
Here's the here's the forfeit. We have to make a video. So if I make a the the the beat and people think it's good Sam, you have to make a video saying Afam was right and I and I Sam was wrong. Alternatively, I'll do the same. If the beat is trash, I have to make a video saying Sam was right. And we have we give no context on that video. We're posting it on our story, on your Instagram story. And all I have to say is I'll do a video and I'll say Sam was right and I affam was wrong.
And that story will be posted either on will be posted on our own personal social media, our own personal Instagram and also the podcast Instagram. Do you? I really shouldn't have gone down this road, this. Virtual handshake. But it's cool. It's cool because I still not to say I don't believe in you, but. Virtual handshake, Virtual handshake bet and what's the timeline? What's the timeline? How many tutorials do you need to watch? Oh my God, I just need bro. I just need.
How many times? How much do I mean how much time do you need to watch your tutorials? Give me, give me, give me a week. Give me a week, Give me a week. Alright. By the time, By the time, OK, no, actually give me by the time we are releasing the episode after this one. So give me till Wednesday the one. 39. Wednesday the 16th. Of July deal. Deal. It's done. It's done. Oh my God, Sam, you're going to be so embarrassed. I feel so embarrassed for you already. No, no, don't just jump to
victory. You've not embarrassed, you don't jump to victory. I feel anytime some compound, we're not we're not making some underground or take compound. Yeah. No, no, no. Compound I'll make. I'll make a proper compound. I'll make a proper compound one. Oh my God, This is such a this is such a Slumdog. Oh my God. Wow, Eddie, Hey, listen. Some engagement farming I want.
You guys should also go and listen to all the music Alpha must produced and then tell me if you think he's going to be able to do it. But do it. A lot of people doubted me, People, people didn't know I could make, I could make Gengheton or Abanton or whatever. And I did. So watch. Watch this space anyway. The compa is slightly different to Gengheton and Abanton, but all right, cool. Let's see. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it goes. There we go. Shout out to my Tata.
Shout out to be an out there doing their thing. And shout out to me winning in the future. Do you want to listen? Yeah, we're talking about other artists here. You are all. Right, new music, Sam and yeah, man, do you want me to start or shoot? You actually let me start. Let me start with what I let me start with what I listen to. I listen to a song called Lazy by I Foolish featuring Blue and Genesis. It's just kind of interesting to see Genesis in conjunction with Kinna I Foolish.
But hey, he held his own. He held his own so well. Actually, wait, what? The song came out. He's a Kilimani. Well, some people would say he's a Kilimani rapper, but he's not really a Kilimani rapper because he doesn't do the Kilimani rapping thing. But like, yeah anyway, the song came out a while ago but the video was shot recently so I watched that and I just wanted
to shout it out. There was Kankari by Father MO and Joe Fess. Bro I feel like Joe Fess releases music every single week so that guy is just in the studio. Quizzing. Yeah, all the time. And then there was Gal Toto by Buzi Gang and Fenna. Yeah, I feel like furthermore, boozy gang, like bro, like I hear them every single week. They release music all the time, which is a good strategy I guess because like you get like people will hear you or have you in front of their faces like all the time.
But the drawback is sometimes it can get fatiguing. Anyway, shout out to them. I listened to back-to-back again, Joffes and Johnny Benz, I listen to Caribbean Kidogo by Mudoka, shout out to him. And the last song I want to shout out is around by 34 Brick, Mauruguash and only MO.
Yeah. Fire. I went like the first thing I went to listen to was Healing Biokilo Max, which I want to say it is OK, I'm just going to say it. Healing Biokilo Max 15 songs, which is, I don't know if that's long for a Kenyan artist, 15 songs. But yeah, it was interesting, interesting. Some interesting production on there and him just doing his thing. I need to listen to it again for something to really stick. I feel like I'm still maybe getting used to him and probably
still getting used to his music. But yeah, a couple of artists on their Breeders, on their vagina, Barbaro on their Iwai Tajiri, attend the Wheelie Madika decks. You know, producers like Wardo, Molo, Hendrix, Sam. Wardo Molo. And Ron, who has been popping up a lot more, but yeah, shout out to him. I'll definitely be listening to that a little bit more. And Mudoka, Mudoka released Caribbea Kudoga, which is very R&B. It almost sounds like a like a like Anjai song.
Sounds like Anjai song. I guess It's produced by one of the by Anjai's main collaborator Kobe. Shout out to him also doing a lot of work, Ochiko Bethy and Joe P. Joe P The chef released Mama Milka, which is I think it is a protest song. It is. It is if I'm more wrong, but it's sounds like party vibes. So yeah, they managed to blend those two. Speaking of pretty songs, Ben Soul and Hendrick Sam teamed up to release War.
I like some of the melodies. I like the seriousness, which he brought it. There's just a lot of activist music going around. So yeah, shout to him. That might be it. I was diligent this week. I mean, I skimmed through a couple of stuff, but not much I can mention. So not much that resonated with me. Let me save myself.
Not much that resonated with. Me so listen, Alfam was just you know on YouTube as you do just watching videos and then I see Ochungulu family dropped you know they dropped the song. I was like they have a video Let's let's see they've been releasing music consistently in 2025. So I was like, let me click play, you know, because I I I like what they do when they release music. And then I was like, hold on a minute, like this is this is different. Why is this one?
It's Afrobeats 2. It sounds so clean and like polished. I was like, what is going on here? But I was so I was so thrown off man. But then I was like, yo, this is fire. Like it kind of shows the just the the level of what's the word, not malleability. What's the word when somebody is able to do multiple things. Malleability. Sir, please help me here. English is tough. The level Level of adaptability. Adaptability, yes, Yeah, the adaptability, not adaptability.
Is it adaptability? OK, the range, let's just say the range, the range that Ochungulo family. Range. The range. Yeah. And it was just actually such a breath of fresh air to see them doing something like, super like, different. And I just like, you know, that's kind of crazy. I was pleasantly surprised, and I think they did a good job. So yeah man, for the end of the podcast I definitely want to play Mazzone Wameja by Ochungulo Family and Tango. None. The. Checking my.
None. Police station. That was Mazzone Wameja by Ochungulo family and Thanko and yeah, man, shout out to them. That was actually tough. That was a dope listen W video. So yeah, man, yeah, that's episode 138 Sam, that that was a great episode. We just did right there. If we do so, if we do say so ourselves. And so why are you leaving me on the ledge? Why are you leaving me on the ledge like this? I hate you. Know just be stepping out of the ledge thinking I'm walking
behind you. Yeah, you're supposed to step by yourself. Bro anyway. Scenes by yourself, man, back here. Oh my God, if you're new for to this podcast, I usually like to end the podcast with the three CS and this is sort of like a mantra device for myself to kind of follow as I go on this path of being in the music industry. The first C is confidence. You have to be confident in your work.
That's what people will see first, and that's what's going to convince them to listen to your music #2 is consistency. You have to be consistent. In this period of just in 2025, so many people are releasing music. If you're not consistent, you're just going to get left behind. So always try to be consistent in both higher releasing music and also how you are creating it, because the more consistently you are making the music, the better you'll be.
And #3 is craft. Always, always work on your craft. Always strive to improve. Watch tutorials, read something, read a publication, watch somebody on TikTok talking about the new way to, I don't know, make beats or do vocal warmups or something. You know, just try and work on your craft a little bit. You don't have to spend a lot of time.
You can spend 5 minutes literally, and that could be the difference between you making it and you're not because those 5 minutes every day really amounts to a lot of time. So those are the three CS and the fourth C is crime is not good and let's all strive to stay within the anyway, the Sam. Alright guys, we will catch you guys in episode 139. That was Alpha and. He, that was me, that was me. I don't know what's going on. And that's Sam saving me. So we will see you on episode 139. Yikes.