Shakina Karen looks like she's been ignored by Diana Cords. I kind of saw that coming. What in the beef? Yeah, the proposed some very one sided beef. Yeah, it's a proposed. That's such a no, I'm sorry. That's a proposed. Beef is so sad. That's so sad. You see how sad that is? It's terrible to get ignored in a beef too. Like that's the worst thing. Imagine you like just gearing up your all and spending all night right in the fire as this truck and then it's just like. Hey.
What's going on everybody? Welcome to the 30% podcast. My name is Sam. I am here with AFAM. This is episode 125, right? Yes, 125 and we are here. And we are here, man. What's up, guys? How are you guys doing? Yeah. How are you guys? I'm good. Bro, tell us, tell us, tell us about your week and. Yeah, so my week has my week has been good, man. A bit, you know, because I, I, I, I've actually left the country on Sunday, Saturday, Saturday and yeah, man, you
know, had a good time back home. It's pretty cool. But all fun things must come to an end. So hopped on a flight. So now I'm back in Brooklyn. The flight was so long, bro. It was 15 hours long. Felt like I can't stop. I'm not gonna lie. I can't stop, bro. It's horrible. It's horrific. And you can never find a good position to sleep. And. No way. You can't find a good position
to do anything. Honestly nothing like a 5 hour flight for me is absolutely like I get I get frustrated after the first hour because you're just sitting there and I'm not the kind to sleep on planes because like what? Why? Why put yourself in such a it's? Hard. It's hard. So yeah, man, yeah. So I think that was the highlight of my week just, well, no, it wasn't, to be honest. There was another highlight got put on the Apple Music playlist
that was really crazy. Yo and shout out yeah shout out to you too man, cuz I yeah on the playlist as well. I know, bro. Yeah. So that was a, that was a cool, that was a really, really cool thing to happen. Honestly, genuinely, just one of those moments in life where you just kind of sit down and they're like, damn, that's actually insane. Milestone. Yeah, exactly.
So shout out to the people at Apple Music, man, Carl, Greg, you all are some amazing people for just like, yeah, listening to the music, like honestly, yeah. Shout out to Colin, Greg, bro. Yeah, man, that was my week. Fantastic, fantastical. I people could probably hear I am I'm there's a slight congestion.
Slight is is an understatement. I was working over the weekend like one of those ones where you're like you leave the house super early, at least on the day of the show, the house super early. Think I because I'd forgotten something or rather it was probably my fault because we're just doing so much during the day that I forgot my laptop charger way across the city. So I had to go and get it and come back and then do what I need to do then go back.
So I had to, I woke up really early and then got back home like the next day. So I think my and it had been like a week of just like preparing for the show and stuff like that. So Sunday came, show was over, woke up and my body was like, all righty, you're sick now. We will not do anything. So the whole week I've just been battling like a little bit of influenza, which has been going around honestly. And I really hate it. I might have said this before, but I hate it when when I get a
cold and everyone gets cold. Like that's so mainstream. It's so mainstream to get a cold and everyone has it. Like it's so poor. It's mainstream to get a cold bro. Why you so hip? You're such a not not hippie. What's the word? It is though. What's the word? It is like you're. A hipster. Why You're a hipster. You're being such a hipster. My, my immune system is, is just not it's, it's not, it's a sheep. My immune system is sheep. It's the follower. It's not, it's just terrible.
It's kind of kicking myself, but I've been all right, man, just, you know, chewing on ginger and your African, your shout out to my mom, African parents always. It's how, what do you call it? Ginger. Lemon and honey. No, take away the lemon and the honey man. Just chew the ginger. Cut it into a piece. Just a raw. Have you ever chewed a raw piece of ginger? It's one of the worst culinary experiences you could possibly go through. If. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Do you like sushi?
I like sushi. Yeah. Sushi. Sushi is great, yeah. Sushi so you know how they serve like ginger like as a palate cleanser like. Yeah, but they truly like vinegar and it's softened. I'm talking about just like Ginger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like sour cut it. It's terrible. Anyway, so yeah, I've been chewing on ginger. I'm burning my throat and taking towers and whatnot, hoping this thing leaves soon because if I'm being sick and tired is just not
the best feeling. Yeah, apart from that, just being called creating, Yeah. Life. Sam, did you hear the news? Whenever you start like that. Kenyan men were ranked the most handsome men in Africa. How do you How does this make you feel? What number was what number is Nigeria? Because I have to run for my people. I know I'm Kenyan, I I identify as Kenyan, but what number was my, my home people? I'm not sure. I haven't seen the. I haven't seen the full ranking.
Because what's my concern with Kenyan men? Let me, let me see. Oh my God, I can't believe I'm typing some. I don't. I can't believe I am typing into my laptop. African men have some ranking. Look at what your search history is going to. Your search history is going. There's no or in your search history. I don't know it's, I don't know where this. I don't even know where this. And I don't believe it too, right? Because isn't handsomeness subject? Isn't beauty subjective?
So how what? What metrics and criteria? No, no, no, no, no, no. Because we're not doing this. What metrics and criteria did they use to determine all the African men? And out of all the African men, the majority of Kenyan men are handsome? How did they figure that out? That's what I want to know. That's the kind of science I'm interested. Bro. What do you mean who cares? Listen, Kenyan man. Aren't you interested in truth? Aren't you interested in some some What do you call some
standardized measuring? Some, some. You'll be happy to note that Nigeria is second. So me being half Kenyan, half Nigeria, I don't. Even think Nigerian. My potential is just like, my potential is just insane. Best of both worlds. Ethiopia was third. That's valid. Ethiopia always used to be in the top five in everything. Yeah, I put Ethiopia and and and Eritrea more Ethiopia than each other. I put Ethiopia in Ethiopia ahead of Kenya, Nigeria. I through, I through.
The Middle Eastern countries ahead of maybe let's keep Ethiopia one for the sense of why but I. Completely disagree completely disagree. I think I think Kenya and Nigeria well deserved. I just want to sorry, I'm just some I'm sorry, I'm just going to take the mantle because somebody needs to speak and I feel like I have been bestowed that honor.
So in, you know, on behalf of Kenyans and Nigerians, just like to say thank you guys for voting us the most handsome people in the continent which I which I try our best, We try our. Best man in Africa you can't do not subjective, it's nonsense, it's not, but. Some stop stepping on my thank you speech. Bro my bad bro. Like yo, go ahead, sorry. Yo, listen, I just want to say thank you guys, thank you guys and thank you guys.
Yes, some you're saying. Kind of dedicated 3 minutes of this podcast talking about handsome man is ridiculous. By the way, this is a podcast about the music industry. Somehow, right? Somehow we'll get to that. I just see this task for the for the, the, the, the ladies, the young women. If you were to speculate, where would you think? Oh my God, are we talking about
this at the podcast? Yes, Kenyan women would be #1 for me. All right, so news and then closely followed by Ethiopian. Because you're good to keep. I don't even know why I felt that. Speaking of Nigerian Speaking of handsome Nigerian men, well, I don't know if we can we can do that. Can we do that? Speaking of handsome Nigerian men, there are a few handsome Nigerian men in the. This podcast is off the rails. Rd. I. Blame it on influenza. I blame it on influenza. That's the problem.
But me, I don't have anything to blame it on. Yeah, I blame it on I'm not. But I am getting a cold as well so I'm bling no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Get your own thing. Nope, Nope, Nope. Get your own thing. Why don't no your own person man. OK, tell us about the Nigerian men who are in the country. I mean, it's too much to say. I don't know, maybe it's doing like a tour. So there are a bunch of artists who showed up, a bunch of
talented, talented young men. I think Baiani is part of them. What's the other guy? Magics and Boy Spice? Well, Boy Spice of of maybe records the same label as Rama and Iris Star. By the way, if you haven't heard of them, Biani had a huge hit. I don't know where he went to. Just disappeared Magics. After Tata, Tata, like everything just kind of slowed down for Biani, I'm not going to lie. Super cold, yeah, but but yeah, they're in the country. Yeah, they were.
And I think the I think the thing was branded Niger to Nairobi, the east side tour and they performed at the Red Room at at Life Plaza sponsored by Trace Martel Africa centric. I do remember seeing them when they were having the press conference. So Africa centric in the building as well as hassle Sasa shadow took in a step. So yo, man, so one of our so we interviewed.
Remember guys, by the way, Speaking of interviews, before I forget, you'll go check out our interview with Abigail Diana on Gazza Volume. That was the last episode. But I was talking about the interview we did with Alfayo. He works for UMG East Africa now. And yeah, just seeing them like, you know, buddy buddy with Kinabayani Magics. We interviewed Alfayo. He was actually our second ever interview. Yeah. One of my favorites. Yeah, man, it was cool. True.
Yeah, what he was, He was really cool, cool and has so much information. So for me the first thing I thought when I saw Biani Magics and Boy Spice is like you all need to get them in the studio ASAP bro. Because like we have UMG artists now with Jerai and Kim Life bro. Kim Life would be a slum dunk to collab. Oh, no, yeah, yeah, Kim needs to Kim needs to have like 2-3 songs at least with each of them. I don't know how is he? Is he is he quick? Is he quick with like the music
creation? Like do you know? Oh. I've, I've made a bunch of music with Kim Life. We've worked on, I've recorded him like on three songs. There's one he did on one of my beats, but I don't think that's ever coming out. And there was another one actually, it was also on my beat for the other one. And it was, can I even say that right now? Because that song is also OK. I can say it. It was a studio session with Kim Life was in there. Sabi, who was in there, who else
was in there? I think it was Swahili Papi as well. It was actually a very interesting studio session and, and, and everybody was so impressed with Kim life because his ability to come up with melodies on the spot really, really fast. And he's actually very, very good at songwriting. That's very good at some shooting. I can't even lie. They should they should jump. They should like just SEC. I don't know how long they're here for, but they should section of some some studio just
for like the entire time but. Talk about timing, bro talk. I think they have already gone. I think they performed in Uganda. But talk about timing though, because like Kim life and you look at maven like bro, it's just the perfect like marriage there. You know what I mean? Like. Wait, wait, what do you? Mean, I think because he represents the sound. I know Kim life and and and at least he has he's like a portal for them to the East African scene. Yeah, you think you think he's
because he obviously. Go ahead. Sorry. Sorry, I cut you off. Sorry. No, no, I'm just going to say because he obviously like adds his own like Kenyan spin to his songs, although obviously he uses a lot of like melodic styles that you would find like in West Africa, but he's doing it like in a Kenyan way. So it's like, oh, OK, so maybe we can. And you know, The thing is about like labels and stuff like that, they never like to take risks. By the way, Let me just break it for you guys, man.
These guys never like to take risks. So Kim Life would be perfect because he's not risky in the sense that, yes, he's East African and could open you up to an East African market, but he sounds like something that their audiences would be familiar. With already they've they've, they've already before. Yeah, yeah. So, so that's good because they don't want to be risky and go for somebody that's way out-of-the-box, you know what I
mean? Yeah, I feel like Kim life, Kim Life would be especially for like that kind of that group of music. I feel like Kim life would be an easier. I don't I'm not trying to make the sound bad, but I feel like it would be an easier collaboration than one of the like our Afro, like the I don't know, we need to find a name for the genre, but then the Afro pop that we usually have here, you know, and the specific sound. I feel like I don't know what it.
Takes but I really did that statement. I feel, I feel like no, I feel like it's an easier collaboration. Not saying that it's the I'm not, I'm not saying that that there's that there's no, there's a lack. How do I put this? I'm not saying that they shouldn't collaborate or anything like that. I'm just saying that maybe like, for example, if they get in the studio, it might be easy just because their styles are similar, if that makes any
sense. Yeah. And that's not to take away from what this other people do. But we've seen like Bien and Ira Star and we've talked about the song so many times, but. We haven't seen it that much though. We haven't seen like a lot of collaborations between East Africa and West Africa and recently. I see what you mean. So and Kim life definitely, but. Definitely. More of the West African print in his sound so.
He does, he does, but definitely, definitely wanna sing Jai on one of these guys songs. Like bro, that would be insane. And usually like I think if we just randomly see like Bayani on Anjai song, it happened this weekend. So that's great to actually see. That happening in real time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but here's my question though.
So we've talked a lot. We've talked a lot about the savviness of the West African music scene and how they they love, and I'm going to you just say it, they love to use our our market industry as a stepping stone, one for marketing and two for artist development. They use us a lot for this purpose, especially with their smaller artists. They did bring Rama. They did bring Rama last year. I feel I saw somewhere. Obligatory it looked obligatory
it did, honestly. Well, I saw some some someone on social media a little bit iffy about them bringing Biani boy Spice and magics because unfortunately and with the way music goes, you know, you could have a hit. I mean, Tatata was insane when it came out. Yeah, but they're kind of cold right now. So do you think this is an attempt? For to hit them back. Like are they, are they having to go through the toy again to see if they can start something?
I don't know. OK, Sam, let me just give you hold on, but let me just give you the like an opinion. I'm sorry. Each time I saw them, and this could be completely wrong because me, I'm just going off of what I saw on social media, like Biani just looked completely like, I don't want to say disinterested, but but maybe that's his like personality. Maybe he seemed like he was like, you know how like when your parents force you to like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you're.
Yeah. At least they don't have no one your age. They have nobody your age, just all uncles and aunties and. No one is just like you're. You're going to be the one taking the plates back to the kitchen. You're going to be the one serving people. Exactly this is don't Jazzy telling them you'll need to go and get things hot again so you must do these things like no negotiation. I mean, it's quick. That's what they were being told. It could be.
It could be because and and it might be difficult for them to just because the the stars of that group, the stars of that label, right. Pun intended the stars. Well, yeah, you're so you're so quickly recognizing puns. That's good. Just relax the stars. You didn't do that intentionally. No, not at all. The stars of that group are are just, I feel like they're just so much more elevated in terms of their stardom. Yeah, fine. You've had 1-2 hit songs. You might be buzzing in the
streets. But then to attain that, and of course, the labels, the labels goal would be to have 7-8, nine of those, right? Almost everyone on the label, they want to be as hot as that. It's a lot of work, but that's what they want because that's more money. So in their defense, you know how the music industry works.
Like, yeah, you can release like a really a smash or you could write a couple of good songs, but it's very difficult without com combined effort from yourself and the label to maintain or to reach those heights. So maybe it's it's just been like quiet for them a bit And the labels like, all right, we need to we need to get things going or or else we figure another configuration for our
partnership. And I mean, this is all speculation, but you know, sometimes you can see it sometimes, sometimes and as as, as, as consumers of music, sometimes you can just see it. Like you can just see it. It's not, it's not rocket science. Like, yeah, maybe it's just like fam, like what am I around all of these people? Like it could be entitlement where he probably feels like, oh, no, no, no moving from it.
It could be entitlement where the artist feels like they are maybe better than that or they've they've done more to be like they don't they don't they feel like them being like paraded around sort of is is is beneath them kind of deal. So maybe that's it. You don't know, but it's been cold for them. So the Liberals. It's been cool for them. Get them hot.
And I think they, we've, we've said this before, like the Nigerian labels know and they've looked at the analytics and they know that the Kenyan market consumes a lot of Afrobeats. So yes, it's, it's just like makes so much sense to have them come out here like consistently. I think we also need to start doing the same things. I mean, we have seen, yeah. I mean, we've seen July announce her Australia tour, which is
cool. And I think there there is obviously a connect there like there's somebody who is making this tours possible in Australia. Yeah, possibly because they've they've identified A diaspora that will consume that music, which is cool. But I would like to see, because you see those artists are going to perform primarily in front of Kenyans. And then there may be other Africans and Australians
involved. But I think the difference with what like Maven is doing with Kina Baiani and Rema when they come here is they're not performing to Nigerians, they're performing to Kenyans. So it's like a very different like audience from what they have back home. So I want to see Kenyans like being thrown into the deep end where they're going to perform in front of people who are, I mean, who they don't call home, you know what I mean?
So I want to see more Kenyans going to like SA, like introducing them like, you know, taking Jerry to South Africa or taking Jerry Kim life and whoever they have else in their label to South Africa. And I read them around like by any magics and boy spies, you know, parade, parade them in front of South African audience or you know, take them to I don't know where else. Do you think they listen to Kenyan music? Botswana, of course, whatever,
you know what I mean. Mozambique like in Africa? Libya. Take them to Mozambique. Man, I think that would be interesting. On, on, yeah, on your point and just revenue wise, right. It's it's, it's not there's a cap on, on exporting Kenyan artists to Kenyan consumers in other countries. Like there's just a ceiling. It's, it's much more profitable to figure out how to export them to different cultures, you know, And so we're like, I agree with you in terms of like, it's and.
It's much more exciting. I feel like, you know, I mean, like, it's like there's that element of like, unpredictability. How is this new artist going to be received in front of an audience that? Although that being said, I was just going to say it's not like mavens are also just like doing something unpredictable because they're relying heavily on analytics. But still, it's exciting, you know?
And yeah, and that's, that's how you also gauge like how your your music industry market is doing like back because here at home we're we're really just we're within our walls. We understand what's going on, we understand the sound and everything. But then it's once you export it and see how other people receive it, that's when you can clearly gauge that, OK, maybe this might be successful. This is not, this is a direction to go in. We need to, you know, fix this one, two things in terms of
image, in terms of the sound. And yeah, but no, it's, it's, I mean, all around it's still a good thing. And just to see our artists start getting exposed to other markets like they have. And I recently, and I think Boutros did that when Angela was popping off, I believe Boutros went to is it Fiji? He went to one of those like I. Don't know if it was Fiji land. Interesting he went to Fiji. Imagine butchers in Fiji. So. So the reason was because the song was blowing up over there.
So they also relied on analytics to inform their decision. And I like that because he wasn't going to perform in front of a Kenyan audience. Now, guys, I'm not throwing this isn't shade about how people go and perform in front of diaspora because obviously the diaspora will spend a lot of money and it's nice and it's whatever. Like I'm not throwing shade on that. I'm just saying like it's exciting to like really, really introduce like artists to like new audiences, you know what I mean?
And we want to see more of that. And I also do like the fact that people go and perform in front of diaspora and stuff like that. I also like that I'm just talking about this other approach to artist development. So hey, listen, shout out to Mavens and what they have going on. Hopefully by any boy, Spice and Magics can catch a hit.
Yeah. And maybe maybe through all of this like exporting and exposure, we can return back to the days where like Kenya, Kenya was Kenya was on top of the African market like those are the good old days when when we're travelling around and our sound. Was like. The the, the, the stars of Africa wanted to, you know, sit next to Kenyans and, you know, in our industry and our music. So yeah, we might be headed there again. We might be headed there again.
Speaking of being headed there again and just on the topic of touring and stuff, I just want to mention that BN finally was granted his O1 permit in the US which stop laughing. So essentially an O1 visa is a non immigrant visa for individuals with extraordinary abilities in science, education, business, the arts or athletics, but those with extraordinary achievements in the motion picture and TV industries allowing them to work temporarily in the US.
So what this means is that BN will be able to come to the US and perform and there wouldn't be these visa issues and like I can't come to perform because of this, that and the 3rd, I believe the O1 visa. The O1 visa lasts for three years and may be extended in one year increments. So that's cool man. Bien can come out here and make some money. That's actually interesting music. I was going to go another direction where I don't know if this is news, but that's a
separate issue. You think it's going to benefit, you know, how like again, to parallel the Nigerian industry and can industry. Do you think just like, you know, when those stars blow up like a Bono boy and David Doe and them they all find their way to the West. You think it would benefit Bien to do that as well because he's he's been picking up steam. It's kind of like slowed down a bit. But then since his album, like it's been on an upward trajectory, right.
Do you think it'll benefit him to go go to the West and try and see how much further he can push it? Or do you think he can do it for me because he's, he's a very, he's a very, he's, he's a, he's a champion of the local industry as far as I know, from what I've seen and heard from him and from other people about him. But do you think it will benefit just solely in terms of benefiting his career to, you know, go out there and get? I've been 100 percent, 100% like
the answer to that is yes. For sure. You think that's the play? Yeah, that's the play, 100%. And and I think, I think the audiences will gravitate to him because Bien. Bien is a funny guy. He gives good interviews I think. Personality. He would be a competing individual, yeah, he has a, he has a, he has a personality. So I think, you know, people will catch on to his artistry and his humor, and I think that might make him personable.
And so he does have potential. So if I'm him, you know, I just can't have him out here and have him do as much media as they can and just try and introduce like his personality to this audience, see if they would gravitate to that. Oh, no, you're talking about. I'm talking about like moving, like moving and operating primarily from there. Oh, that's your question. Yeah, yeah, that was. Those Oh, I see. It's like how all those like Alti artists always. Yeah, you blow up.
You blow up. And you, you, you, you hop on a train. I mean on a plane, sorry. Or a train. No, I don't think Bien should move. I think that will slow him down. Oh, OK. Norway. Yeah. I, I mean, because there hasn't been like as much uptake of his music internationally as there
is here. So I think if they look at the analytics and they begin to see that shift and they're like, wow, there's so many people listening to his music in the UK for example, then maybe you'd think about it and it's consistent. And they've looked at this like for a period of time, like 2 years. Then maybe it's something to consider though. I look at Bien's numbers. Let me just look at Bien.
If I look at where his music is mostly listened to, it's going to be in East Africa. And so I would be a bit hesitant to make that move. Yeah, his music is listened to in Nairobi, Lagos, Dar es Salaam, Kampala and Abuja. So I don't know. I don't know if I would be willing to like do that at the end. I think it will slow him down, genuinely. But that's something to consider, something to consider if they look at the analytics and it makes sense. But me personally, no, I wouldn't do it.
Yeah, OK, cool. Well, that's advice from AFAM. Bien, Yeah, yeah. Because he clearly needs advice from me about his music. Oh. Come on. It's you though, right? It's you. It's you. Mr. Mr. The boy. Now it's the boy, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, listen. But I. We need to stop this trend. I'm tired of you. I'm tired of this trend. I'm tired. Of this trend. We need to do. You don't. Know why, boy? The boy that's such a. White thing. No, no, no, no.
It's the boy. It is quite, it's quite narcissistic. I'm not gonna lie. Let me see. Let me see. How do I tie narcissism to the next? You can't. It's OK. You know, it's OK to just introduce what we're talking about next. There doesn't have to be some really cool over engineer segue. I can. No, actually, I can't tie narcissism to the next thing I want to talk about Kekobo. Talk about a narcissistic organization. No, but seriously.
But all right. No no no, that's actually a great transition, but shout out to myself. High 5. So anyway, Kekobo, they are scumbags, but primarily what I want to talk about them is because they are finally granting the other three CMOS 6 month licenses after the High Court ruling, which by the way, they will refuse like, well not refuse, but they kind of like did not seem like they were interested in going along with
the ruling. And I believe that all came out of camps appeal against Kekobo issuing the license to PAV risk and PAV risk only. So guys, if you're sitting down, you need to be standing up for this news because our CMOS will be dedicatedly collecting the royalties for us on our behalf. Again, don't stand up for this SO.
Essentially for me, I feel like this news just means nothing or it means something for like the high tier artists like the BNS or like the high earning like gospel artists who actually get paid their royalties. For the regular artist, this means absolutely nothing. In fact, our lives will be unchanged by this. This is just. Like there is no difference in my life whether you guys are supposedly correct. Hey, correcting are supposedly
collecting royalties or not. You in Kenya for how long? So apparently hey, yeah bro 5 weeks. Man. Oh man. And these are funny, bro. There's a funny, there's a funny trend that was going on on TikTok about like your actual like. Oh yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that. I know what you're talking about. When, when? When Your accent. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, when your. Accent slips out. The South African ones are hilarious. Oh my goodness, South African Jamaica, take that.
Man, that's so funny. So Jacobo now are pretending to be strict because they've put some guidelines. So they're like all three CMOS must account for royalties collected between 4th June 2024 and 4th April 2025. There should be a detailed distribution plan that's submitted to Kekobo adhering to the 7030 distribution. And then there should be evidence of compliance with this rule that's provided within three months of the license issuance and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I feel like Kekobo are trying to sound like they're doing their job. Like, yo, yeah, I mean like we are enforcing. The rules, this is like whole time when you get caught, when you get caught doing something you're not supposed to do and then your parents are in the room and then now you have to overcompensate and now you're even looking at the siblings like, no, no, no, that's not how you do it. Remember how you're supposed to do it. And then you're even showing
them going extra. It's OK, Kobo is doing this is so yo, listen, at some point we will have a point to all this CMO drama. At some point there will be a point to all of this. While we're right now we're just we're just recording everything that's going on. But at some point there will be a positive. No, some it only. No, no, but it only ends it. It only ends if if people like if there's Mandamano with artists, that's the only way it ends.
I'm being so for real. Like if we figure out ways to stifle the CMOS from just benefiting from us because I see all these things even there was like a whole thing about how there was a fake letter for Ezekiel Mutua like being dismissed from MCSK. And apparently it's somebody who used to be in the board and he was salty and was doing this and that. And you look at the way all these people fight over this CMOS and it's because there is so much to gain in the video because this, this.
So I'm just saying like there's still so much money and there is so much money actually being collected by these societies that it's worth fighting for. And that's why we see them fighting so hard about it. I think the only way this ends is if we realize that all these games being played are for their own benefits. And by there, I mean like the CMOS and the people who are the CEO's of this company, of this
whatever organizations. Like once we realize that they're just playing around with our money, then we all stand up and we figure out ways to like, I don't know, get in between the process of them and the collection of our money money. Then we will make some real progress. Other than that, everything is just fluff. It doesn't matter who takes who to court and who becomes the
news. And. Whether it doesn't matter if Prisk changes its name to PAV Risk and then changes its name to PAV, PAV risk and PAV Risk Risk who? No it does not matter. Like, they could do everything in their power to like, rebrand, land and change and say we're doing something different. We just need to like all like put pressure on them. I mean, I I saw physically, yeah, I saw, I saw a news report where and I don't know how traitors.
But then a news part of the EACC being after is he killed mutual for giving himself 22 million like as a salary for the for for a year. Like his salary was supposed supposedly one for 480 and he bumped that up to like 1.1 million or something like that, giving himself 100,000 monthly for entertainment allowance and things like that. We don't know how true. That is 100% increment. Yeah, but it's stuff like that. That's if. If that's true, then that's ridiculous, right?
That's ridiculous because then the artist gets a 2000 shillings in PESA at the end of the year. And it's not Ezekiel's song that was playing on the radio, was it? It's ridiculous. I think we just need to have Amanda. Yeah, there needs, there needs to be a change and there needs to be a real effort by the artists to to try and figure it out. And when you say Mandamano, it's also like in the mentality of the artists, like you can't just sit around and say, oh, well,
like this is it, right? This is this is sort of what we've been dealing with. But then to figure out how to push for that. So hopefully we do hopefully, hopefully at some point, it might take a little bit more now, but then hopefully we get to the point where artists actually feel the need to care about this stuff past just the conversations, because there's a lot of conversations about it,
but just past the. I think once people, once people see how much money these guys collect because they collect a lot of money, then it will become real. If they see how much people, how much they collect, and you're able to track it and you see how much of that is yours, Yeah, Now it gets serious. Now people wake up in the morning at 5:00 AM to go camp outside of offices. Yeah. Shout out. No, no, no. Shout out to them. No. No, we're not shouting them out.
Is there something opposite of a shout out? That's what they're giving the CMOS man. Calling out, I, I think a call out is like the opposite of a shout out. So we're calling out all CMOS, Kobo being number one shout out. So I wanted to no, no, I wanted to talk about Doondo just slightly. So Doondo put out like a press release saying that they're launching A strategic review that could lead to change in ownership, merger, strategic investor or other consolidation.
And I read the article in depth and I came out more confused than when I started reading the article because I didn't really understand. So for me, it just looks like this is, yeah, what's the why? And I think the why is I think 1:00, it's an advertisement for because it, I think they're trying to like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think they're looking for new investors.
They always never lack the chance to kind of mention how much revenue they're making and also their increased subscriber growth and monthly average users and stuff like that. Second thing was they called out our Telcom services. They kind of mentioned that they've had a slight dip in their revenue estimations because they are relying or 7075% of Mudundo's revenue comes from the Telcom institutions. I think we know which ones there are, wink wink.
And it's and I think it's, it's based off of the fact that most Kenyans don't use credit cards, debit cards and don't use that like so we don't pay for subscriptions as much as like the West does. So they kind of figured out this new model and they're like even that new model that we figured
out, it's not paying so much. So I found out a bit worrying and I mean we talked about the whole IFPI report recently and how shameful it is for Africa to only be generating in quotes $100 million while the rest of the world generates 26 or $29 billion, right. So now some if streaming or people are not purchasing subscriptions and then even the only way that we really interface with these things using telecom services wink, wink is not working.
Then what is how how do we get people to pay for music in our country? So that was the second thing that stood out to me, like it was those two things, one, that's trying to sell this company and two, we might have a huge problem if ever telecom services are not paying. Yeah, Dundo is Dundo is heavily reliant on telecom services and the rest of the streaming world is sort of moving away from
that. Like it's still a struggle paying, I think it's slightly better, but then paying for Spotify and like Netflix with M Pesa, like that's still really it's it's not as straightforward and sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah. And so I feel like sometimes I feel like I'm doing those the way they're operating just doesn't just doesn't work well with the streaming, with the way the world is going in terms of consumption.
And that might be an issue for them where they might have to like I, I know they started what in 20, was it 13? I think maybe that that model that they have held on, that they build identity around that might need to shift and maybe that's partly what is in their mind with this whole restructuring. Of course, that's a speculation, but I don't know. It's it's it's interesting.
It'll be interesting to see how they move on again, just because of their reliance on the telcos and if that's still going to continue. But yeah, this does look like a it looks like the the the pointing fingers out in the open, like the warning the telcos like, hey, you'll get yourself straight. Some What do Kenyans spend money on? So oh man, I was yo, I was about to be. Let me relax because this is how you get cancelled in society. What? Why? I was about to set you up.
I was about. To just jump, jump out of the window and just say something crazy. What do people family? Food. Family. OK. Food. Food. Yeah. Food. What? OK, But when we're talking about recreation and what do Kenyans spend money on? Oh, that's an interesting question. Because the reason I ask is because like how do we con? How how would you convince a like Kenyans and mass to purchase music? Or is it even possible?
That's something that is I think that's that's another one another thing where my cultural answer comes if, if, if we make culture important, consuming of our own culture important, then we might start valuing consuming culture as a whole. I mean, yeah, consuming culture as a whole in whatever, whatever form it's presented to us. And music is 1.
So, but other than that, like just to make, I just, I feel like we're not primed to make music subscriptions and all that other stuff like the common, common way of consuming this stuff. I don't know. It's just, I get why you're asking. I just, I don't have like the answer for that. I'm not sure. Man, because I could have. There's so many. What do I think? Yeah, Imagine a world where all the matatus, right? Because every, every Kenyan will spend money on transport, right?
Yeah. So imagine a world where you had Spotify sponsored matatus, Apple Music sponsor sponsored matatus and all the all this about the above. And then now you had like matatus that only played abenton or matatus that only played trap, or matatus that only played drill and this and that and the that. But that only was a percentage of the community, right? Yes, exactly, but then a percentage of the money that
comes from the. Then if you had a way to monitor how much music is played, like in a day, for example, in a matatu that only plays drill music, right? Let's say there's a matatu that primarily plays like, just like Kenyan drill can have Brooklyn boys and all that stuff, right? And then a percentage of the fair goes to remunerating like the artists through the streaming platforms.
That's what I'm like. Because how else are you going to make Kenyans pay for music in a way that wouldn't be too like intrusive? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's such a far fetched idea that would never happen. I'm just trying to think about like how. Even in stores, you know how like when you're walking to like a like a supermarket and they're playing like EDM, like it starts making, making, probably making it.
All of this only works if we're able to properly and to go back to our whole CMO commercial, if you're able to properly collect revenue for the songs. If not the even the whole matatu thing does doesn't it falls apart. But then like if you go to a mall or whatever you wherever you go and they're paying, they're playing music outside, right? And you make it mandatory that the specific amount of of music has to be local, has to be Kenyan, you know, whatever genre it is.
And then and now that's, that's an easier way for us to consume and then figure out a way. Yeah. But the question is not just figuring out a way how how that works with the artist and the consumer and how the consumer ends up paying for that by just being in the space without having to introduce like really weird things like taxes and whatnot, which is we don't need any more of those, right?
With bro, I'm telling the person who figures out how to harness this is going to be so rich because bro, it's just like this should make it. Free like like like Bitcoin don't. OK, so how do you monetize? How do you how do you monetize free attention? Like, because listen, if some if, if, if the biggest music was put on YouTube, right? Or let's say was put on YouTube
for Kenyans, right? Let's say Travis Scott released a song and it was on YouTube and we just monitor how many Kenyans would listen to that, like a lot of Kenyans would because it's free, right? But if it's on the streaming subscriptions, that number is very limited. So like, it's not like we don't consume things, we consume things and we consume things a lot. Like Kenyans consume a lot of media, but usually we like to consume a lot of media on free platforms or we'll figure out
two ways to pirate. So how do we? And and that's not a problem because even like we saw, that's how Spotify was incepted by them pirating a lot of music using Pirate Bay in well as it's Sweden or wherever. So how do we shift that narrative or how do we monetize free? How do we monetize attention? That's a very, that's a very, very important question.
Because that's because, because because I'm genuinely speaking, I don't see a future even in the next 10 years where you can convince me that the average Kenyan will want to spend $10 a month to pay for music. I mean, I feel like if the economy changes. Yes, I don't see that. No. But if the economy changes, I feel like it would, it would open up more people to do that, I think, and it will shift the the yes, the percentage is upward. But some realistically speaking,
do you see these projections? We can't just go off projection because obviously, yes, if, if, if our country was all of a sudden like just like we were in an economically splendid place, like for sure, like people will have more disposable income to spend more things than just like survival. But I'm talking about being realistic.
I don't see it happening even in the next 15 years where the average keyword average Kenyan is comfortable spending $10 a month or you know, on subscriptions for music, you know what I mean? Like I just don't see it. So we need a solution to that. We need a solution to that because the more we, the longer we don't have a solution, the less people will invest into our, our sector and then the less money will be able to generate as a result.
And that just means that across the board that the artists aren't going to like benefit or become like mega stars. Or we might have situations like you posed earlier of artists seeing their potential as being better elsewhere and then moving and trying to like, make it in America or the UK, for example, You know, which is what all these guys kind of whisked. They're basically based elsewhere, bro. We need to figure it out man. We do.
I'm sure there's some brilliant minds that could get, get on on this and, and use the systems that we have the, the, the, you know, like, like we said, telecommunication is a really big part of people's lives, especially in terms of commerce with like M PESA and things like that. So using just the systems that we have in place already to try and figure out how to make it work for art and artists, that's important. Clearly it's not working with M pesa as we've seen with Mulundo so.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know, I don't know this is the problem and whoever I may say, whoever finds this solution and finds it in kind for all the other African countries, billionaire might even be going into the non trillions. That's that's exaggeration, but you will make a lot of money, trust me. Anyway bro, until the labels come and buy you out and then back to square 1, is there something else? Back to square what? Get into music. I don't think there's anything.
Yells yells. Get into new music. New music. I have a little bit of a of a short. I don't call it a rant because I don't sound I don't want to sound like I'm I'm hitting on this gentleman. But the OG, the OG dropped the book of Jones Volume. Is it volume 1st chapter? I was going to say volume one first chapter #1 I had absolutely no idea that Calligraph was dropping an album. And I usually would excuse that. That's true. I usually would excuse that.
But it seems like that's been like a thing for him where like a week before or less than a week before you see a billboard with his picture on. It's talking about his dropping an album. I feel like he just need. I feel like he needs. This is going to sound bad. I totally don't mean it in a bad way, but you're not too big of an artist to do a roll out like and prepare your fans for. What you have, you don't think you don't think Carly Cartel 5 was part of his roll out? Kyle Katel in that.
Way now that we look at things. It OK, now that I look at it, yes, it was part of his rollout, but there's also an art in in the rollout, right? So Kyle Katel was cool, but Kyle Katel is sort of has sort of has a life on its own. It can exist outside of his project and no one would would, would would think twice about it, right. Of course, he included in his project. It's an 11 minute song that I think the average number of songs is around like 3 minutes, 53 minutes, 3 minutes, 4
minutes, right. So it definitely stands out within the project and it does not completely communicate what the book of Jones first chapter is about, right. So I just I in just my opinion, I feel like maybe he could do more in terms of just doing a release. He's one of the artists, like a lot of younger, the newer rappers look up to right. And maybe there could be a better way to communicate his projects and just like, like
prepare your fines, man. Like it's you need to prepare your fines for what you have coming. But apart from that, yeah man, so. OK, I'm going to say I'm going to say the first time he publicly mentioned on at least on Instagram was on the 10th of March where he was like big announcement loading. Keep streaming Cardi Cartel 5 Yeah, so that's the 10th of March. When did this project come out?
So I don't know what. So guys, I'm going to just preface this by I'm I'm not the biggest Calligraph fan out there. So, well, you didn't just say it is. Follow his career that much, so I don't know how much he put he did in terms of posting about like something coming or whatever.
No, but even though, though, like you know, like when when there's an album roll out, somehow it gets to you like you can, you know that there's a project releasing somehow, like it's it's, it's engineered, it's crafted in a way that it carries in conversation, even conversations too. And that's the aim of it, right, In terms of the singles you put out and the visuals and whatever you do is to carry it further
than your usual fans. Would you the line of your usual fans, like further than that, that line and you just don't hear anything. It's almost, it's almost like a surprise drop every single time. And that's something that we need to do better, I think. And also the art of picking a single I think is something that we also should focus on and just being more intentional about the type of singles that we pick for
projects and things like that. But yeah, that's my that's just my little rant on that because a lot of people are checking for calligraphs, music, obviously. It's just that sometimes I feel like maybe he could present it a little better. But apart from that, how? Did you? How did you find the music? Yeah, 10 songs, a couple of, you
know, big names on there. He had, of course, he did the the the colleague Ali Cartel, which had a bunch of people on it. He had files from Nigeria on their Mudica. Dex is on there, is on there. Timmy, Timmy Blanco is on there as well, a couple of other people with productions from Vince, DJ Prod Luigi is on there a couple of times and a few other people. So yeah, that's cool. In terms of the projects, I don't know, didn't really he's a big enough. I didn't. Think all your ear has No.
First time, no. He's a big enough artist that I just expect more from him and I don't want that sound harsh. I just think he can if he locks in properly like I feel like he can, I feel like the quality could go up. There's a thing that he they keep doing with the mixing that I was telling you that just frustrates me in terms of like and he's done it not just here, but he's done it in previous songs where his reverb almost sounds very mono.
It's it just, it's like a signature sound for him at this point, right? Because he's done it a lot. But then it just, it's hard to gel his vocal with the beat sort of with that kind of with that style of mixing, you know. So that's, that's, that's something that kind of threw me off. It makes it difficult to listen to when there's just like there's a presence of River just behind him. You know River was supposed to be almost inconspicuous if it's not creative.
And just createspace for. Rather than they, they just put them. So guys, so this is production one-on-one. So sometimes so not production, but mixing engineering. So what people will do, right? So just to try and break it down. If so, reverb is like I think in layman's term would be like the echo. Is it echo? Yes, it's an echo. It is echo. That's not like a long echo that will sound like a delay, but it's just like the the echo that you hear that makes your voice
sound kind of like. Like you're in a room, like, you know when you enter empty room, like walk into a bathroom, you know you're in a bathroom just because of how your voice sounds and changes. Yeah. Explaining things is actually not as easy as you think. Yeah, for us, because it's something that we're. Used to with the technicality. Yeah, it's something we're very used to that it's like, all right, how do I.
So basically. Yeah. What Sam is saying is they so instead of So what they're doing with calligraphs vocal is they are just putting the reverb like which is viewed as an effect. They're just putting it on his entire vocal, which drowns out like his sound in some way and also doesn't blend well. It doesn't. Blend well and that's the issue. Because reverb is what most people do is they'll add reverb so they'll have calligraphs,
vocal as a separate. So what you're supposed to do when you're mixing vocals, you have somebody's vocals kind of dry as a separate thing, and then you add the effect as a separate thing. And then you blend them separately so that now they merge in the middle.
And then now you kind of determine how much you want it to sound more like the dry version and have some of the wet elements or like the what you'd call like the affected elements such as the river, instead of just taking the dry version and completely plunging it in water. And then like hoping for the best, you know what I mean? Instead, you, yeah, instead you kind of want the, you'll want the effect to be like an
addition. And then now in your ears, it sounds like it's blended, but actually it's. Separate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, the vocal is just so. So that's what we're trying to describe. Yeah, but sorry, hold on before you continue. And just shortly, I think, and that's has been part of my critique is, is I really do wish we create a culture of just having now I don't know who makes this project and
everything. So I'm not really talking about this, but just in general is just having people, especially your projects, your albums, having them mixed by not a part time engineer, you know, but like, but someone who knows about sonics and just how to make things blend and what and the culture and the sound of of of the region, just how to make that work Well. I think a lot of the projects we have might sound, they probably will sound much better if
they're engineered a lot better if we step away from the the person who recorded it is the one who's going to engineer it. That's true, you know. That's true. That's true. But yeah, man, shout out to paragraph man. Congratulations on the release. That's what we've said hard way. I'm not going to lie. Hey, listen, I listen to six songs out of 10 and I can't say I heard anything that inspired like, I don't know, maybe I'm because maybe I'm the worst person to ask because I'm not a
big calligraph fan. I don't know, I just his music doesn't it doesn't move me. So maybe I'm already starting from a? Point. He's probably not your demographic. Yeah, it's probably not your demographic. But it's just, it's just not for me. I'm sorry, but like I listen. But I don't take any shout out though. I was in the middle of shouting him out and they took it. He took away his. Shout out to Vince and the beat by the way. Yeah, and and cut it off and everyone was involved in this
project. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What else? What else? What else? What else? Ben Sol and Vigena Baru Baru VB released Kao Tamu Flanny Lovely Chris Geiger and said oh enlisted in Dovuku for Mazara. And I think I honestly feel like Chris Geiger and said are going to come out to that project soon. I think I think said oh mentioned that in one of his interviews that they're working on a full length project. So and they've been releasing music steadily for a while now.
So very much looking forward to what that's going to sound like and when it's coming. Hopefully it's soon. Yeah. Who else released the music? Steph Capella teamed up with the GR exclamation point and hook again for Head Up, which was cool. And yeah, it's just some rapping. I like it when Steph Capella raps. I think he needs to log in into that a little bit more. He sort of veered off into an Afrobeat bag. But yes, it's good to have you back, Steph. Good to have you back. What else?
Brookwood. Brookwood. Brookwood and yeah, just Brookwood. I think there's a bear group. They released a song called Songa. What else? I'm trying to see what else? And Nelson Boru did a couple of drops, Janja and another one. I can't remember the name, but yeah, I think those are the ones I really paid attention to. OK, OK, OK, what did I listen to Joe face? I foolish and Fidel raid. I don't know too much about Fidel raid, but they released a song called Chill Guy.
You've kind of said everything I've Oh yeah. EXO released a song called Breathe. Shout out to EXO as always 1 * 3 It's Deco and Shakina Karen. I believe Deco was one of the artists in the in the. The show, the competition, The rapping competition. What is it called? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was it called again? I've already. I've already forgot. Oh, gorilla. No gorilla. Gorilla. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was. Saved us. Yeah. Imagination to deco. Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to Deco Shakinakaran release. Music too. Just because you didn't win doesn't mean you shouldn't release for. Sure, man. Shakinakaran looks like she's been ignored by Diana Cords. I kind of saw that coming. What in the beef? Yeah, the proposed some very one sided beef. Yeah, it's a proposed. That's such a no, I'm sorry. That's a proposed. Beef is so sad. That's so sad. Don't you see how sad that is? It's terrible to get ignored in a beef too. Like that's the worst thing.
Imagine you like just gearing up your all and spending all night right in the fire as this track. See that's happened to Joe Burden. Joe Burden versus Drake man bro came out it's. Really, Joe Burden was a lot of people, if you're looking at it like I was living with everybody that you know and you play to him. That's so sad man. Imagine if you write, you spend like 3 days writing three songs and then you just get ignored. Premier would feel so bad and then you can't beef about it.
Because like, but you're working when you're working with your song, you'd have to be working your song to that person's like house front door ringing the bell, then they open like, yo, you heard this? Oh. Man. Yo, here's a distract I made against I'm actually. Terry. Oh man, sorry. Anyway, it's cool. Important to to mention the very, very, very Kenyan pink pant. Yes, thank you. Tonight. She's Kenyan, Sam. Is she? She was.
Releasing she I think she did a TikTok where she was she did something about saying like cursing in front of like an African mom or something like that. I remember I saw it. So I was like, oh, wait, yeah, she actually tries to identify yes, maybe maybe it's marketing. Maybe it's marketing. Maybe you've beat. It's. Not it's the apple. It's the it's not bad. She's carried.
So I'm taking it a win is a win. But yeah, I think the song you're Pink Panthers if you're listening to this right now anyway. So there's this song I want to I want to shout out that I think was the one that stood out to me the most. And it's by this new kid on the block is called 30 Atheni. I haven't heard too much about him, but he's on the come up. He released a song with YBW Smith called Bonapetite. And yeah, man, we were eating good this week with that song. Banging.
Love the sample too bro look very simple formula. The way he says, but it's the way he says. Bro, look, it's so catchy. I don't know why. Why is it catchy? I don't know, I don't know. But yeah, it's a very good beat and I like the flow switch UPS too. While he was rapping so. Yeah, so anyway, when I shout out to 30, man looks like he has a promising career in front of him. So Sam, if you would allow me, I'd love to play the song Bon Appetit. Bro. Look, I don't know what bridge means.
Am I aging myself by saying I don't know what bridge means? Maybe he'll explain to. Me in my. Sense to this? Yeah, maybe I am, but anyway, yeah, here's Bon Appetit by 30 and YBW Smith. Bro look. Look. For free. Bro look, that was Bon Appetit by 30 and YBW Smith. Bro look. Banger. That shit was fire. That shit was fireman. The sample like Sam said was was insane and the way they just were interchanging on the beat anyway. Bro episode 125 bro we're already 1/4 away.
OK, fine, I just caught myself being. Sentimental for no reason? No. Reason at all? It's in my blood. It's in my blood. It's. Sentimentalism is what you suffer from. It's just. But Sam, it's in my blood. Why don't you want me to be who I? Am. It's just, it's just on, on, on goodness. Like you can't help yourself. It's who I am, it's who I am. I just realized be different that we're 1/4 away to 200. 1/4 look at, look at the milestones we're talking about 1/4 away to 200.
How is that significant now? In my mind, it is very significant and I want to thank you guys for listening to the podcast. As always, I like to end the podcast. If you're new here with the three C's and what are those that you ask? Well, these are guidelines that I've kind of set for myself, but I want to share with you guys as well because life is a journey and I'm not perfect in these things and I hope to improve in them and I hope that you guys can improve in them as well.
So #1 if you're an artist or in any career, you have to be confident. So confidence sells. That's what people pick up on. If people feel like you're confidence, confident about your art, they will listen to what you have to say. So always be confident.
Consistency is key. Like whoever came up with that saying is so right because ultimately you can be semi decent at what you do, but if you're consistent I think it's even better than than the person who's supremely talented but only puts out stuff like once in a while. You know what I mean? I think the person who is working hard and is consistent at their at their craft has more
potential in my eyes. I think they they eventually breakthrough the mold more often than the very talented people when it comes to the real world. And lastly, craft, always work on your craft. I think every day you can dedicate some time to working on your on your craft. Like, you know, I understand that everybody's days are packed and everyone has things that they're doing, but even 5 minutes, that's all I'm asking for 5 minutes of your time.
I sound like I am on the door trying to sell you something. But listen literally like if you have 5 minutes in your day to spare to learn how to do something new or learn how to do something that progresses your chosen career path, then you could spend those 5 minutes to doing that. And those 5 minutes will add up at the end of the year, for example. So those are the three season. I hope they help you man. Some some some help. You, yeah. That was another episode.
Yes, yes, it was, I was just going to ask, I was going to say there's something that you had brought up earlier. I've been I've been on TikTok and there's one guy, I don't even know if he has a name on there, just one of those TikTok accounts that like just give life advice and it's just slaps
you. And it's something that you, I guess when we were talking before the podcast you had mentioned is sometimes I think our brain finds ways to complicate things again, because of anxiety and just unwillingness to move forward with life. But the solutions that people are seeking are very, very
often, very, very often simple. It's not as complicated as we make it. Sometimes the, the, the path to what success, whatever the success is to you is a lot easier than we think it is. It just requires discipline, discipline and intentionality. So that's a really good thing to remember as an artist. Artists tends to have very, very big goals, lofty, lofty ideas of where they should be in life and what they should achieve and their legacy and stuff like
that. And sometimes it just seems very overwhelming, especially even for me. But the path to that is made easier by motion. And just what's the easiest solution you can go by, go by and don't, don't worry about fearing wondering if you've picked the wrong path and whatever, whatever it is, just just pick something and go for it and adjust along the way. Adjust along the way. It sounds simple and trivial, but it's it works. It works.
Yeah, that's that. All right, with those wise words from Sam and we catch you guys and the tick tock guy. We will catch you guys on episode 126. We out.