Episode 098 | We Cracked the Code

And there you have it, some I think we have. We've cracked the. Code, Well, in our own way, we've, we've, we've tried, I think we've cracked the code. We've cracked the code, given away the sauce for free. Yo, what's up? And welcome to episode 98 of the 30% Podcast hosted by yours truly, Afamefuna, and my amazing, amazing partner in crime. He is the Bunny to my client. All right. OK, I don't know. I wouldn't refer to. Sometimes. Sometimes I just go off the

rails, I don't know. Refer to myself as the Bunny to your client, my guy. I wouldn't do that. What's up, man? It's some it's some What's up? Say what's up to all your yo. And the third entity that needs to be introduced is you guys. You guys are the glue. Facts. You are the gel that makes this podcast a podcast. So shout out to you guys. Yeah, yeah. And yo, I hope you guys have been OK. I hope your weeks have been fulfilling. I hope your days are going well.

Sam, how have you been? I've been man, I've been alright. I've been cool, I've been chill. I've been decent for the most part. Yeah, not, not, not anything much. Just been working, making some some slaps some slaps. Hey, making some slapper, Rooney. Some slapper Rooney and plotting plotting world domination and. Oh for real bro? Yeah, that's that's, that's been it, man. I'm trying to see if there's anything interesting that occurred in my life.

I really need to do more, bro. Like this is getting sad at this point. But if anything goes to mind, I'll say. But then I really just had the most basic work field week get into the back. It'd be like that sometimes. It'd be like, it's been like that for a long time. Oh, you've been. What have you been up to? I've been good moved to a new place, which I did mention in the last podcast. That was literally the last time we recorded. I was lit. I hadn't even been in this in

this space for like an hour. Like I literally just moved in here and. But. Yeah. So now I've had like a little bit of like time to it's what's been six days now. Yeah. So, yeah, getting used to this new environment. I've been good. This week. I had a studio session with an artist I met actually like at A at a networking event. And they were like, yo, you know, we said we wanted to work together. I have this studio session. Do you want to come like produce engineer?

And I was like, yeah, sure. And yeah, so that happened. That happened on Friday. That was fun when to record at pirate.com, they have this like building and then it has like multiple like rooms essentially just like mini studios. And it's such a dope concept. Actually. Somebody needs to pull that off like back home. I think it's really sick and the prices are not too crazy.

So really like helps, but it's a it's a big investment because you have to like essentially invest in studio equipment for God knows how many studios and I think they're like, I don't know, you might have to be like 14. I think we've tried in there. Each room has like 2 monitors has a MIDI has the focus right DI box or audio interface. Sorry. And then obviously microphone, headphones, yeah, actually it's a big investment, but I think

it's nice. Anyway, we recorded a bunch of like so he's called Chad and he's originally from Jamaica, but he's. What did you just say, Jamaica for a while? Did you do the accent? I don't know that was that racist. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to like be like, I don't. I just wanted to say it like that. Oh my God. It's fine, sorry. Yeah, thanks for calling me out and. Making it always the body you played. Oh my God. Anyway, yeah. So that was my week.

Other than that, yeah, I haven't done haven't done anything of note at least. Oh, I forgot, yeah, I forgot sound. I forgot I and this is not even for self promote, but then I really enjoy like remix and stuff and one of my favorite artists called Andy Mineo dropped remix pack of us like a freestyle he did. So I had like a lot of fun with that one. No, my see, it has just triggered the hunger in me now to just remix everything under the sun.

So if you never know, I don't want to do self promo, but yeah. I love how certain things just trigger you into like, creative, Yeah, like vibe. Crazy. For me it's just listening to and hyper fixating to back in office by Odunsi. Now I just that's all I want to do. Some I just want to make. You've entered a new phase. You've entered a new phase. Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep. Yeah. That's, that's what I'm going to do anyway.

Listen, yeah. Anyway, I, I, I just love being an artist because like, it's just, it's small things like just to be like they open up your mind and it's like, yeah, Yep. Yeah. This is. This is what it is, life. Yes, Sir, man. So Sam had a very interesting

conversation with my dad. So my dad listens to this podcast and we'll just talk about last podcast where we kind of touched on the topic with Steph Capella, You know, and he was just kind of talking about like Rama being in the country and you know, how international acts get paid significantly way more than Kenyan artists. And prior to that, he's also talked about how international acts kind of, you know, they, for lack of a better word, use, but that's not what it is.

But they use our industry as a stepping stone essentially. And that leaves a lot of our local artists in the dust. And anyway, that's a whole conversation, but it did lead some and I into a rabbit hole and it left us wondering. Actually, some posited this question like a few weeks ago, but this was in pre production, I believe. Was it in pre production or was it in an actual podcast?

Oh my God, time the question of like, how do we make Kenyan artists international it. Was pre production trying to figure it out? I think it was pre production. Sometimes the lines blur between what's happening. This is the way we do, we do, we do things. It makes it difficult to know what's the podcast and what. I know, I know, but maybe if we had pre production like a day before the actual podcast would be able to like delineate, but that would be so much worse. Yeah.

Anyway, in Ignore the Podcast Politics we went down a rabbit hole and we wanted to answer the question how or what steps should we take in order to make international acts out of our Kenyan artists? Or local acts. And. Like the tangible? The question. Yeah, the tangible. I need you doubt. Actual steps, Sorry, no, the tangible actual, actual steps because we've, we've, we've, there's a lot of talk about it, right? And we've discussed and we know that something needs to be done.

But then, and we had said it last week on the last podcast in that we actually need to get out there and do the things that would make put us in those positions for us to that raise the value of Kenyan Axe and they can be earning more in all the business. So now that's a deep dive went into is what are the what are the actual steps and things like that the artists currently need in this region to get there. So yeah. So, Sam, I need you to tell the people, give the, give them the answer.

What's the answer, Sam? Money. The Mafia. Oh yeah, money is a big. Oh, yeah, yeah, money. Money is the underlining for all of this. But I mean, there's a couple of things. There's a couple of things. So it's just first looking at what does an artist need to do in order to expand? Because what we're talking about is just expanding your reach, taking yourself from having, increasing your fan base, increasing the number of eyes and ears on you. We're talking about music.

So it's ears then. Yeah. And then getting you getting the artists ingrained in, I don't know if we can get it right, but then getting the artists into other conversations and other cultures like cross, almost like a cross cultural creativity art type of. Experience, yes. So I mean, we could just run, we could what do we run through some of the different things that we found out. Yeah, sure.

And maybe we could tackle like OK Does, would you say Kenya right now has international acts, which let me answer my own question. I would say yes, but I feel like everything is still at, it's like budding phases. So look at the likes of like Sophie and Zhao Nesburu, Aziz, BN. These are names that you would say are international acts because they TG black as well because they exceed our borders per SE. And there are many other examples.

These are just a few names that are coming to the top of my head. And for me, I feel like this. What I have figured out is that there are two kinds of like international acts per SE. So we have like BN, who has been a staple in our industry for many, many years. And so he has organically built up a listening, a listenership and a following all through the all through the years.

He's, he's also created his sound, modified it, moulded it into what it is today and has a valid, valid or like he has an established kind of product that he has been refining all through the years. And now I feel like he's beginning to really like, say this is my product and he's going out there to like market it. And now because he's already like fine-tuned it using our

industry. Then there's the other there's the other subset of artists who kind of almost bypass the Kenyan audience and decide to market themselves outside, and they also gain very much, or they gain success doing that, or they achieve success doing that as well. For example, Sophie and Zhao, whose rise can be looked at as being very unorthodox. Very unorthodox because not.

The way, yeah, the way exactly. Because the way she blew up isn't how it's, it's like, it's, it's not like it's very difficult for other artists to replicate what she did. But you can see the method of how she did what she did with artists like Ed Aziz and Nessunburu. And what method am I talking about?

I'm talking about appealing to like that European like audience, Western audience that listens to a lot of like dance, EDM, electronic type of music and then infusing it with their sound because in truth, it's their sound. But then just like infusing it with African vocals and stuff like that. And and it's evident when you go to, if you go to Sophia and Zhao Nesburus or diseases like Spotify profiles and look at like the regions that consume their music, you wouldn't find you.

Wouldn't find Kenya as a number one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you wouldn't. Yeah, but they are successful. You can't take away from the fact that they are successful. So essentially they market outside because if generally some, if you ask any Kenyan like if that is the top of their genre list, yes, there will be Kenyans who say yes. But most Kenyans wouldn't say like OK, for sure. Like #1 on my list is like the EDM stuff. Not to say that they are not

supportive of those artists. I'm just kind of saying like that's just. I mean kind. Of how it is, and that's fine. It's it's their music. Is is is for specific times and occasions, like I was saying earlier, like you wouldn't. I don't even mind. Again in the middle of his Tuesday morning show would throw in Mwaki. You know, not that it's it's it's it's it's bad. But then you just, that's not what naturally people would gravitate with.

Like that kind of sound is specifically for like parties and. I mean, they probably did when it was like popping maybe, but like I'm sure it has like really like tapered, tapered. Off. It doesn't stay in that spot. Probably reverted into. Yeah, they're probably reverted into. Like the, you know, the more what they usually play their usual like radio rotation. So I would say those are like kind of like the two ways in which you can kind of go about it. But then there's way more,

there's way more. And OK, maybe I'll, maybe I can just say. Yeah, we could. Just maybe. We could do like this, like, yeah, maybe I can just go. I can just say one thing, we can talk about it, then we can move on to the next point. So how to make a Kenyan artist an international superstar? One, obviously you need to focus on the music. The music has to be good. And in my opinion, Sam, I think Kenyans make good music. I think it's good enough to market on the international stage.

Would you agree with me or no? Yes, we do. We have good music and we have. So the beauty about the Kenyan space is that it's very versatile and very diverse in terms of sound. So there's more than one sound that can make it to the international stage if we if, if we like focus. But yeah, I, I do agree, I think we have, we have enough to be able to push. I agree. And I mean, I feel like that point is both A+ and sometimes a negative.

So I was reading, I was reading this WIPO, is it WIPO, WIPO magazine. And this is an article that was published in what, 2007? So it's a really old article, but like, it's an article talking about the, the, the Kenyan music industry and the challenges that it made it is facing in terms of like, comparing to international markets. And one specific paragraph like stood out to me where they said despite its vibrant creativity and boom in production, the Kenyan music industry is nowhere

near realizing its potential. Nobody knows about Kenyan music, says Susanna Oweo. And that is because we lack proper networking in terms of distribution. Paradoxically, the very diversity of Kenya's music seen represents a key challenge to developing a sustainable industry. In particular, it's linguistic diversity has fragmented the market and made it more difficult for artists to develop unique and recognizable sounds that can serve as a currency for access to mainstream global

markets. Do you what do you think about that statement? Yeah, I mean, it makes, it makes sense the the the tagline, no one, no nobody knows about Kenyan music is actually just very, it's a harsh reality, but it's it's very true. In terms of just exposure, I think I think for us to get there, it has there has to be a lot more exposure, a lot more again, cross cultural exposure.

And that comes through networking obviously comes to networking comes through through being in front of those spaces. So it makes that it makes it makes sense what what was said and that that statement again was said by Susanna Wheel, who is a a staple and she's been around for a minute. Yeah, very well respected and but. Yeah. I mean, OK, so how, how do we get our product to the right spaces? And I feel like it's a it's a blend of PR and marketing,

right? Like targeted marketing and targeted PR. And I'm pretty sure Kenyan artists do this. But I know for a fact that like when Remma, when Thames, when Ira Star release music, like they have dedicated like PR packages for Kenya and even East Africa and different regions were there like, yeah, they're spending, they're spending money, like a lot of money to to do PR in like our spaces. And essentially, I think that's what we need to do whenever our big.

And I'm pretty sure our artists do it, but maybe we just need to do it in more like we'll need to do more frequently. Yes, I I guess like where when you're releasing music, it's not just only targeted for a Kenyan. Blogs A Kenyan, Yeah. You can, yeah. I think we need to figure out how to reach out to these PR agencies abroad and they will be open to working with us because at the end of the day, it's business. It's it's a money thing, right? If you if they state a price, yes.

They're, they're gonna do it like they're, they're gonna see value in, in promoting Kenyan art out. There and the beauty. So I think we just really need. To just on that point, the beauty about that is the more you're, you raise your value in that sense as an artist, you promote yourself and then you gain like more audiences, the more people who want to invest in your art.

And so then the money comes like from labels, from whatever brand deals, whatever it is, the money begins to become more. So it almost sorts itself out if you do that well kind of deal. Yeah, I, I agree. I agree, man. And it's even going the extra step into like, you know, investing like in digital ads that are like targeted. Yes, for. These like spaces. I feel like, to be honest with you, I feel like that's one

thing. That's one thing that a lot of people neglect is like actually doing like targeted apart from now, not just the going on Instagram and like doing like one ad, but then actually going deep into like SEO and trying to figure out how to get yourself in those spaces in like a very, very visible way. That's what that's we underestimated that. I think just because it almost, well, for me personally, it almost seems like ads are

everywhere. And so we think it's just, it's not doesn't hold as much weight as maybe it should. But then that's like a very important part of, of getting out, getting yourself and your music out there. Yeah, yeah. Facts, facts man. And I, I don't know. And I mean, if you look at BN, I think him and his team do this very well, just like doing PR and marketing targeted to to these areas.

And specifically, like in Nigeria, I, I feel like Vienna is making a concerted effort to kind of appeal to their audience. Yeah, I, I know maybe some Kenyans would not like this. But like, even in his music, how he started hoping on more like Afro beats. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like it's it's diluting his authenticity or do you think it's this artistic expression like you can hope on whatever you want to hope? On Yeah, there's. Or do you think it's just being

calculated? There's there's I think there's more ways to look at it than one if he is trying to get into more markets and and becoming an ally of the Nigerian music industry is a very, very positive thing. You know, So I can see why he would want to jump on that and have pigeon English on his hooks. I know that's and sad. Again, that's what that's what we're saying. The beginning is getting yourself into that culture.

Now a lot of people could look at that and say, OK, he's, he's pandering or he's, you know, he's doing too much. But if it's calculated and it's for a goal, right, And you're not just like leaching like he's made some good songs. Again, people locally might not necessarily like it as much, but he's made some good songs and, and in Nigeria, they're rocking with it, you know, and outside there. So it's calculated. It it could be seen as

calculated. It could be seen as purposeful, but also could be seen as artistic expression. Maybe that's what he wants to do. Maybe he's really, I mean, when Ira Star did a a feature with him, she was, she was doing Swahili on, on the song. So he goes both ways. Yeah. It does, it does. And I think that's that's one

thing they do very well. Like in Nigeria, like maybe you could call it pandering, but like they brought like when it came to I'm a piano, they saw that stuff and they just really. They took I'm a piano and to. Like incorporating? Yeah. Yeah, and put their culture in it, and they made it theirs uniquely. For real. They really turned on my piano into something. They made it pop. It turned. Out To be honest, purists would hate. It. Oh, absolutely. I hate it.

Yeah, it worked. That's the thing. It was a strategy and it worked. And and are you going to kill kill people for being clever and and moving in the way they you? Can't. You can't. You can't exactly. So, yeah. So that's one thing. And then another thing Bian is doing really well is actually making his presence felt. I don't know why this is becoming Analyzing Beyond Moves

podcast. Actually just had that thought as to, and just to explain, I think one of the reasons we're using him is because we, he's one of the Kenyan artists that we have seen doing it right in that way, or at least doing, doing a lot of what we're talking about decently like with, with it apparently or allegedly with, with thoughts and, and, you know, just moving correctly. So it we're not just bringing him.

But you didn't bring you, you did bring a good point, although this was admittedly in pre production when you said there are other artists who also fly out to different countries to, you know, tour, yes, perform. I know a lot of DJs do it. I know recently, like Lee Boy from Keep a Pearl, she was out there probably in Europe like performing and stuff like that. We have the likes of like Elsie Wameel, who's literally honoured

on a on a worldwide tour. So it's not to say, I mean, we've seen also Xenia in LA like pushing her music as well. Like, so it's not to say that we don't do it. We're not saying that oh, Kenyan artists don't do these things. No, we're just kind of pointing out like. Certain things pointing at the at the at the maybe the brightest light, though, the one that everyone and see and know sort of, I guess. Exactly, exactly.

So yeah, I was just saying BN recently had that trip to Nigeria and we talked about this last podcast. But yeah, you know, I was just, I just typed in BN in Nigeria and I saw a bunch of interviews and radio things that. He did. He was with Joey. He was. He was like, I've just seen like 1234 like 5 different, like 6 different interviews with BN on there, essentially introducing himself to the Nigerian

audience. And that is very, very important, like taking time out of your calendar to fly to some of these key areas and introduce yourself to the audience. And even if, like, one thing that might be difficult is like BN is like viewed as the biggest artist in Kenya, right? Yes. But also having that like having that mentality to go out there, not as BN, the biggest artist in Kenya, but like as BN, an artist who makes dope music.

So sometimes I feel like people feel like we'll go out to these spaces and we wouldn't be as big or like as highly regarded as we are back home. But that's fine because you know, genuinely you won't. There is a lot of work to do, so it's fine you know. Like, success doesn't translate, doesn't translate as easy as you think it does. So you might be the biggest thing around here. And then you go to another country and they're like, wait,

who? But but you see, it's fine because in five years a lot can change, bro. If there's one thing I've realized, a lot can change in five years. And I went down the rabbit hole to kind of look at like Rama and his story and how he first came to perform in Kenya in 2019. And I believe this was the thrift social event that was in Alchemist and I went down the

deep. I had to go on Instagram and scroll really far down to thrift social and and just checked out like the performance and I'm looking at it and I'm like, wow, Rama has come from far because you see that audience or that crowd, you wouldn't see. It's a it's. Not a big it. Was a crowd. It was sizable. I mean, how come it's just? But it's not like what Rama commands of. Course not. No, not nearly close.

And it's, and it's things like that, like having that patience and that foresight because you see these guys. So and I'm pretty sure what they did was they looked at his analytics and they said, OK, Rama is being consumed relatively much in these specific zones in the world. And I'm sure Nairobi was one of them. And therefore, they said bet Nairobi is a place that Rama has to go and perform. Yeah. And he did. Yeah. He did it first in 2019, Right. And this was touted as Rama.

And then there was Xenia Manasseh, and I think they called it the Nairobi Kids. That's very interesting. But Valerie Modoni was one of the everything else. Yeah. Yeah. And then in 2022, again, he came, he performed, I believe Karun also performed and stuff like that. And at that time significantly bigger artists. And then obviously two years later, last week, he performed as well. And now he's like viewed as this

really big international act. So these things take time, but in the grand scheme of things, five years is not a long time. And it's actually very short if you think about it like it's, it's something to be patient for. I feel like like if today, like if we look at a mid tier artist right today, like they can invest in going to a different place. Like, I don't know, Cameroon or something, you know, oh what? Like or Ghana, right?

Yeah. And like going out there, like I know Kirby, like for example, went to Ghana like a few years back. Like you go to these places and you see what's up. Like you do like you put together like a show or two small, it could even be in front of 50 people. Like it.

Like it doesn't matter if it's if it's really small or whatever, but like what comes out of those things is so valuable because not only do you get that exposure and like some people in these other markets get to know who you are, but you also have the opportunity to make connections. And sometimes I think we undervalue the connections we make, especially in these small spaces, because you could make a connection with somebody who also is very small.

But listen, you don't know where they will be in five years. You could, you could go to Ghana, for example, and meet a curator and they are very small for a very small magazine. And nobody knows who they are. Maybe they're very niche. And you just take a chance and you, you, you do an interview with and. You don't. Social, then it's small. Exactly. You never know what, where, where it's, but then it will go to like it's a butterfly effect. Exactly.

But then five years later, that person might be the fucking editor for a really dope magazine that's doing big things or like a Hamilton Rain or something like that that's doing big things like in Ghana or like in West Africa in general. But you, you literally, and they'll know you because you give them some time way back when, when they were really

nothing, you know what I mean? So even bumping into like these small people, these small communities is so valuable because you don't know where those people will be 5 years from now. There's, there's, there's real immense value. In that. In, in, in taking a chance and there's something and like actually physically going to this. Piece yeah, there's something also that you mentioned and then just going back to the whole ads conversation that we're having,

right? You talked about using metrics like it's so much, much, much easier these days to figure out where your fans are and how to get to them. You know, like going just to look at like very simple and be looking at your most the, the regions that most that stream your music the most, right? There's a whole bunch of different analytics that you can tap into for that. And then you now play into that like, is it OK? I have most of my listeners come from Nakuru.

Most of my listeners come from Mombasa. Then you now say, all right, I'm going to do a show or something, put on something for them so that I can, you know, target that area that they already pick. They're already tuned in. Because without that, it can be a hit and a miss where you have like fan bases all around and then you don't necessarily target them. You're almost starting from scratch every single time you put out music or you're trying to do ads and stuff and that's

taken back. So using analytics is a very underrated way that that we could, you know, look where, where, what area apart from the local area that we are in. Listen to me and who wants my music? Who does this apply to? And then you specifically try and get there. Yeah. Yeah, so definitely entrenching yourself in these different like locations based off of metrics and stuff like that. Super, super important into the path of becoming international acts. Yeah. What else? What else?

What else can we can one do to become an international? So I mean we. In music, anyway. Yeah, we, we talked about it. We covered it slightly, but then it's the connect. You talked about connections, but then connections in terms of now even with the music, like collaborations and and appearances and all that stuff,

just making those as a point. And it's on a making those connections that the physical, human social is it social currency connections that keep you in the minds of maybe the people in those spaces, like the biggest artists or the mid sized artists or whoever it is in the different areas that you're targeting. And you know, going, doing, going out of your way to reach out to them and sitting is.

Collaborating maybe Yes as well. I realize that music has as when you were young, when you were younger starting artist, you have to let go of a lot of pride as an artist sometimes. Yes, pride is there and ego is there.

Ego yes, you have to let go of your ego and do what needs to be done because I mean imagine I'm pretty sure at this point in 2019 Remo was doing bigger shows in in Nigeria, I'm pretty sure right he was doing he was the numbers, but then they suggested OK, come to Kenya. It might not be the biggest that you've ever seen, but it's good for you and he did that, you know, and we've seen that with other art, more artists like just going and and doing smaller shows might not necessarily be

the biggest in the world, but smaller shows and just getting yourself in those spaces, collaborating with artists. I mean, you go to Nigeria and you're not necessarily looking to or you go to South Africa, you're not necessarily looking to collaborate with nasty sea. You take what you can and just build slowly or Casper, yes, build slowly. Make the connections that you need to make to get not necessarily use people, but just I mean, it's used people and not

used people, right? And it's not used people in a negative sense. But there no, no, you're using people, but they're also using you. Exactly. So it's like mutual, it's mutually. Mutually using So yes, it's making the connections and ensuring that even your team and your managers, the managers people managing you are really important in this stage as an artist because they it's up to them. Sometimes it's not the artist that keeps those connections going.

You know, it's just too much for an artist to to maintain all these things. So it's the manager that picking up the phone calling, saying yo, what's going on in your in your city, you know, what are the shows looking like and just keeping those connections going with different people and trying to build on that and then leverage them as much as they

can to benefit both parties. So yes, it's, it's your connections, it's your collaborations, it's doing things that you might seem, you know, why am I doing all of this? Why am I going to some random party in Abuja? Yes, so that you can, so that you can make an appearance and show yourself, you know. And I, but I don't want to like come off as though you know, some and I have because even us, we have so much to do in our careers. I also get challenged daily when

I see how other people move. For example, Maui Moon, he released a project recently, For the love of R&B, right? And bro bro, he's from Uganda, right? But these guys, him La soul child, Joshua Baraka, they've taken the time to to come to Kenya to see what's popping and work with Kenyan artists. Why haven't I affirm done the same thing, you know, like as a producer, because that's essentially what he is a producer.

Like if I was forward thinking as well, I would be like, OK, I have these beats, I have these ideas. Why can't I go to Tanzania? And this is low hanging fruit because these are our neighbors. Go to Uganda and see what's popping and work with some of those artists. Like my stock as a producer would also write, you know, and that's essentially what people like Maui Moon have done. You know, they are, they're doing it.

That's the whole point, like connectivity, moving outside of your comfort zone and working with artists there. And then, you know, from that you gain so many connections and then you work with artists, like all over the place. So this is this. I feel like this entire episode is just like, is this like a huge learning moment for like, I feel like all of us, you know? At whatever level. But yeah, at whatever level you're, you're right.

At whatever level because like as much as it's like, OK, yes, fly to Nigeria and all that type of stuff, Yeah, that's expensive, right? So that that might be reserved for the people who have the well with all to do so. But you can still connect and mingle with these artists even if you can't physically do some of these things because you don't have the income or not the income, but the disposable. What do you call it? But if you just don't have the.

Financial, financial backing for all of that, yes. Because for me, for me, for example, I'll use myself as an, as an example, like, and I need to get back to doing this. But when I started like the TikTok series and I was shouting out a bunch of like small upcoming artists, like who I found like in Nigeria, for example, like, you know, now you do that and they're Bros. Some of them are very like

thankful. They're like, yo, shout out to you for like shouting me out and then you start talking from there and all of a sudden I'm talking to a producer or a label in Nigeria and building a connection that way. Social media has made it. When I decide to move to to go to Nigeria, like I'll have people over there who know me and I know them, right? You already have, so it's like. You can do small things like that. Yeah, it's true. And social media.

To kind of build your like network, yeah. Yes, social media has made it like really easy. I think. You know what I think? I think a lot of artists might feel like they're not 100% relatable in terms of like, maybe I feel like my music is not like, for example, someone who does music in their in their mother tongue, whatever language it is. Impostor syndrome is no more. Well, that's actually, that's

actually very brilliant. But yeah, so someone like, I'm not saying him now, but then there could be artists who are sitting down, sitting back and saying, listen, man, I don't know if like, how do I reach out to an artist from South Africa to jump on this song or an artist from wherever, Cameroon, whatever it is to jump on this song when I did. And that's a question that you're asking without looking

for an answer. And a lot of people are a lot more open to collaborating that we actually than we actually think there. And I realized that on my own. Like, there's people who are OK. We just, I think we form, we form narratives in our brain and run with it without actually confirming it. But yeah, anyway, we can. We can move on to the next. Your facts, so some moving on.

Well, not really, but so some and I were trying to answer these questions because they are indeed very heavy questions to answer. And we were like, how, like how do we get these answers? And then it just came up. Why don't we put everything into ChatGPT and see what ChatGPT tells us? Oh, ChatGPT is not real journalism? Yes, it is. No, it is like, so we put in a query, give me all the steps that you would take to make a Kenyan artist a successful international music act within five years.

And this is what ChatGPT had to say. One artist development months, one to six, it broke it down into months. Some like this is but like, OK, so this is what they say one. So this is months one to six, identify a unique selling point and focus on the artist. You authentic sound, blah, blah blah, music and image refinement, vocal performance and media training and then

branding. And some we've had episodes about artist development, especially like the one we talked about like in Soul, the Soul Gen. Focused episode and stuff that I think artist development is. Yeah, it's really important. And six months very important.

It's a It's a good. Time, it's being the first thing, length of time, it being the first thing, shows how important it is because you have to, you really have to solidify who the artist is and wants to be at the beginning stage before you know what direction you're going in. You can't just say, OK, I'm an artist, let me just get out of the house and start working. Like, no, you have to figure out in terms of goals and and all that.

And then just refining yourself. Vocal performance and media training is one thing I don't think people pay attention to, but that's really important in terms of just fine, you have talent, but you need to be better. I mean, not be better. So you need to advance it. You need to to to work on it. The thing that they say for me that stands out the most is unique identify a unique selling

point. That's so key in a in a in a industry or in a time when everything is over saturated, you need to find a way to stand out. And I think yes, ChatGPT is spot on moving forward. Second number two, build a solid local fan fan base and you should do this between months 1:00 to 12:00. So essentially in the first year, this is what you should be doing. And, they say release quality music media outreach. Before you go on, before you go on, before you go on. It's a release.

Quality music release singles or EPS consistently, not albums. Not 3C's. Back to the three C's and yes, not albums. Please. Please does this focus want to pop out again? Let me tell you. Yeah, I'm an artist. And then all of a sudden it's an albums like All Right, Big Dog, like Come on. The problem with albums is if you're a smaller artist, it's hard to capture people's attention and have them listen to an entire album. If they don't know you, it's harder.

You have to build that trust. It's harder for an album to travel. It's harder for an album to travel as a body of work than for a single to It's much easier to work a single than it is to work an album. Exactly. Yeah. And so, yeah, so they say. Release quality music, media outreach, secure interviews and features. Reach out to Radio 254 or something like Radio 254. Literally they will interview you if you ask and your Kenyan of course live performance, performing at popular venues,

blah blah blah. Digital marketing leverage social media, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok to grow the the artist local following. What do you think? I think this is a. This is so far this is a very solid, solid and doable things that you should do. Yeah, it's solid and it's doable. It's not doable. There's exactly plenty of artists who are already doing this. Yeah. So we're going to months 6 to 18. Yeah, months 6 to 18.

So digital the next. Well, the next point is the digital strategy and global awareness. So leveraging the streaming platforms, collaborating with international artists, which we talked about recently, YouTube and social media campaigns, and then search engine optimization, SEO and targeted ads. Again, using Google social media ads to target international fans, especially in markets where Afrobeats, reggae and Afrofusion are popular. This is what GPT thinks in Kenya.

This. Is essentially what we said earlier in the podcast. Yes, yeah. Like it's crazy. Like targeting. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, yeah. So, and then also like with leveraging streaming platforms, which is really important because streaming has become the biggest way that people consume music nowadays on their own, individually. So targeting playlists on global platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, of course, they're local

ones. Boom playing the rest, then working on getting artists featured, the artists featured in African and global playlists, AG Afro, Beats and world music. So yeah, we've, I mean, we've talked about streaming and and playlisting and what that does. And it's just really looking for ways to be in those spaces, those playlists and all that and get in consideration. It it all. It all starts from the music and just keeps going forward.

Yeah. So for me, I would say this step is where like the Maya Molos and the Zoe Can gotchas are doing right now, where you know your own colors. You're also collaborating with like producers in different countries. Like, for example, both of them were on Maui Moon's project, things like that. Collaborations. And so this is between six months, 6 and 18. So 1 1/2 years. You're thinking about just being a collaborator. It might not even bring a lot of revenue in.

Yeah, but you're working with people. Yeah. Strategically, of course. No, I'm not saying is just work with everybody, but like strategically try and collaborate. Collaborations. That makes sense. Number four, yeah #4 it's the same thing. Network and industry relationships, months 12 to 24. So this is what you should do within two years. International collaborations. And by international, we're not talking about collaborating with somebody in Brazil, like, you

know what I mean? Like even Tanzania, Uganda, South Africa, Nigeria, things like that. Yeah. Attend international music festivals. That's interesting. PR and media features, hire APR team for international press coverage. Label slash distributor partnerships. Approach global music labels or distributors for deals that provide access to international resources while maintaining creative control. Now this is very important because here #4 is where we see

the success that TG Black has. TG Black is distributed by Well, then this is information you can find if you just like check her Spotify. So it's public information. You'll you'll notice like the people who are distributing her music aren't like necessarily from Kenya. So that relationship is super strong because they open you up to an entire like like network of the industry. You know what I mean? Like you're not just like hyperlocal, but they also do like accommodate for your local

distribution needs. And I know a lot of artists who use this model to kind of help increase the reach of their, of their music. Now, is it necessarily easy to to get like an international distribution service to take you on as a client? I wouldn't say it is, but it's doable. And I know artists who've who've done this before, other artists who've who've like distributed with like distribution companies in the UK for like R&B projects and stuff like that. And it's greatly put them on.

So you know that like distributions are labels like Platoon, for example, these are services that that will be open. Another example, Philo Philip cough like and his whole partnership with Ditto Music, right. Ditto Music is also based in the UK and that's what they used to distribute a lot of these drill artists like, yeah, Philip, he's he's it can. Be for those who don't know his his broken boys manager and a few others, you're you're absolutely. Right.

So yeah, networking and developing this industry relationships, super, super, super key. I also saw it in Philo another day when we were at Kirby's like thing and there were those videographers from South Africa and Philo took an interest in networking with them. Shit like that, you know what I mean? Like just being open to working with with so many. The music industry is a is a. Communal, it's a community that

we have to tap into. But yeah, next step, expand to diaspora communities that's like a year, year and a half and forward. So you could target, can target key markets, then that's now you get into touring different shows around collaboration, collaborate with collaborations with African artists abroad, and then leverage Afrobeats and

world music waves. Of course, now this is GPT suggesting what you can do. It doesn't have to move exactly like this, but it's just like a really good framework to guide what you're doing. They're focusing the target key markets, focus on Kenyan and African diaspora communities in key cities, then touring organized small international tours in Africa, Europe and the US targeting cities with large Africa diasporas, which is pretty cool.

I mean, you could, you could do that now artists ego would tell an artist that you have to have the biggest show in the world when you're touring and it has to of course now it has to make sense financially and sometimes you would take losses, but you would gain in terms of reach and exposure. So yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. Yes. And I wanted just to add like. We've we've seen a bunch of artists like at least attempt. No, not attempt. We've seen artists do this.

I know major performs in front of the diaspora a lot. Nashinsky. And who was he carrying along with him? Was it like Xenia he was going out with Savara was? It something I think Savara. Savara. It wasn't Xenia. It wasn't Xenia, but I think it was Joshua Barra. I'm not wrong. Or was that a dimension? I can't remember but. When whenever you hear that they are going to perform in America, it's typically not be going to be in front of an American. Yes, it's going to be in front

of a diaspora LED in audience. And that's what ChatGPT is saying you should do. And that's what a lot of them do. Saudi soul have been on tour like and, and, and yes, within that diaspora, obviously the Kenyans are going to come with like the African friends or one or two friends they have made out there. And that's slowly how the audience starts to like, grow. Yeah. And again, sorry again. Number six, sorry again, we're just mentioning the names that I

guess everyone knows. There's, there's much more than many other people. Like I know for example, Muturi was out there recently doing a show. I want to say Germany, if I'm not wrong, I don't want to get that wrong, but then yeah, so there's many artists who are doing this. It's just we're highlighting. We're just highlighting. I guess the. Some of the bigger names just to show you. So you're saying Valerie Modoni was in Tanzania as?

Well, like performing. So bro, people are out here like, you know, trying to put these things into practice. But yeah, I was saying number six, monetization and business strategy, this is months 24 to 48. So now this is between two and four years. They're saying merchandising, launch branded merchandise and sell through digital platforms, licensing opportunities, licensing music for using film, TVETC endorsements and content

monetization. And you know, obviously through following this like framework, by the time you're reaching here, you'll have built enough leverage to appeal to some of these brands and some of these TV shows that would want to license your music. So I think that's a very sensible pathway. True number 7/7. Go mainstream internationally. That's months 36 to 60. Now here's where you have your major collaborations.

Securing your collaborations with like, the top global artists in the US, the UK and other major music markets. Then the festival circuit perform at global festivals called Coachella. Lala. Lola Palooza. It's Lola. I thought it was Lola Palooza. Lola Palooza, Glastonbury and the like. It's pronounced Lola Palooza, Yeah. And then? Major wait, wait. Is it OK? No. Next is sorry. The Global Tour Launch of full international tour covering North America, Europe, Asia and Africa.

This tourists tend to be longer and just you know, sometimes it's a lot more work and then major label deal. Now this if this this is not necessarily in the artist control, but then it's part of it. Negotiate with a major label, but also this might. Be the only part that I disagree with ChatGPT because I feel like that is still the old kind of model. I think now you don't necessarily need to have a label, yeah, work with a major label distribution.

Maybe you you may need to find, yes, better distribution and stuff like that. Essentially look for the the, the entities offering these services. So better distribution, better publishing. You don't necessarily have to go for the major labels per SE. Even the major labels themselves are outsourcing some of these things now. So, yeah, but yeah.

So now this is well, now we see the likes of Thames and you know, with Future and Drake or Ira Star, like with Givion and everything Rema with Pink Panthers and all those like this is where they are at now through this collaborations and and stuff like that, because the collaborations give you sort of like, bro, they open you up to hold the entire market. It gives you some legitimacy stamp of approval. The. Credibility. Yes, exactly. That's what I was looking for.

And so, yeah, people think, oh, you're performing a song with Pink Panthers, you're on that level where you're doing a song with, with your honour, song with Future. Then you, you, you're, you must be on that. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? So, yeah. And then also the the strategy they do here a lot is putting you in these spaces where that

are mainstream. So going for things like the Met Gala or like Fashion Week or, you know, all these type of things that they're you can see them actively doing them with like Ira or like whatever banner boy has been doing them for years now. Whiz kid has also been doing it for years now. Yeah, Tyler is, is what she's on stream with Kaisenat and everything. Like you're now just like on mainstream media platform. That's actually, yes, that's actually part of.

Of of the the sort of the last stage that you give, which is the F5 plus, which is a sustained and escalating phase. The regular global releases, releasing more albums and and singles that are that appeal more to the global market with strong PR and a digital push. Again, we've seen that with a lot of these artists who've blown up from the African scene. They're everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.

Next will be awards and recognition, aiming for nominations and wins at international award shows, Grammys, BTS and the rest. And then engage in a global fan base. Continue to leverage social media digital platforms to sustain and grow your international audience. And then finally, diversify your revenue streams, expand into other entertainment sectors, acting, entrepreneurship. Here's where you see people starting like fashion brands and whatnot and then like, yeah,

doing. Just doing different. Things in order to to bring in more money and, and push your brand into different spaces, not just maintain it within the music scene, but they're now doing different things. So yeah, that's Chat GPTS. Shout out to ChatGPT for having. The knowledge on how to. How to take a Kenyan artist from episode is brought to you by AI. Sorry, yes, this episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Taking a Kenyan artist and it's

very this one is very doable. Of course, some caveats are some disclaimers are one money, money, ma. Yeah, OK. Actually. Do you want to do what? Because we also tried to find out what, what, how much this would all take from ChatGPT. Do you want to scare some people? So the the. Estimated total cost of a five year sum, they're saying the low range is $350,000 and the high range is $1.5 million. But yeah. It says key variables scale the cost varies depending on the

scale of international marketing. 2 collaborations high profile features can be very expensive, but might be fast might fast track international success. 3 geographical forecast targeting specific global markets will require tailored budgets, especially for touring. But four, and this is most important not to scare anyone away, is a DIY high approach. Some steps can be done in house at a lower cost. So this is not to say that that's how much you need to

spend. It's possible to afford doing some of these things like in house with also using your relationships. Yeah, yeah, sometimes it might take longer. To do all of this, sometimes it might take shorter, it just depends on and. And another aspect of this is, again, you don't know what step or what relationships or you know, what ad you do that would like trigger some of these things faster. Like we really don't have any control over at all.

What song blows up the song that fans gravitate to that could actually push you, accelerate you a lot faster through some of these steps than than you would if you didn't have that song. So leave some of it up to chance just I guess it's just do your best to maintain. Some sort of structure in terms of your. Goals and and make sure that you and your team are that's all the momentum yeah, yeah, yeah and then make sure. Everyone. Is aligned and everyone is working towards the same thing.

Yeah, man, that's And there you have it, Some I. Think we have? We've cracked the code well in our. Own way we've. We've we've tried, I think we've cracked the code. We've cracked the code. The source. For free the source. For free that we got. From chat, do you think do you think that? Journalists using journalists using ChatGPT, not to say that all the way journalists, but they're using ChatGPT is.

Do you think that's legitimate? No, but we used it to supplement our points because we used it. At the end to kind of easy, yeah. Exactly. So it's not like we just. Used it at that point. Yeah, that's true. There we go. But yeah, I mean we. Tried to kind of answer the question of how to make a Kenyan artist an international act and we did our best. Honestly, we did our best.

But in the back all this just comes from a. Place of. Yeah, and all this just comes from a place of us wanting, wanting our artists to win because ultimately that's a good goal. You know, you don't know how bad I want to see. I want to see like. International artists like we see with so many of the other different countries, like I just, I want to see Kenyan acts everywhere, bro. I just, I want saturation because we've we've done well in many different areas. There's no reason why we

shouldn't do well in music. And we have such really like, imagine how nice it'll it'll. It'll be to see like Jarai hanging out with or in a Kaisenat stream. And I don't know how that looks, but like, you know, yeah, you don't have, you don't know how that looks. Because we've not seen pictures of of that kind of thing. But it's entirely doable. It's possible. And Jerry and Kaisenat collab will be crazy. I like that. I'd like to see that.

Wouldn't it, man? Yeah. Listen. Kaisenat, if you're listening, he's he's not listening. Yeah, you go again. Yeah. Kaisenat. Listening to us. Speaking of listening, Sam. What did you listen to this week? Music. Music makes me. Lose control. Oh, we Yes, I knew you were gonna do the I knew you were. Gonna do it, bro. I just. Yeah, all right. Yes, I do. Yeah. So. Let me start with.

We had mentioned it earlier when we're talking, you mentioned For the Love of RnB Volume 1 by Maui Moon, and I'm bringing it up because it has a bunch of Kenyan artists on there. So we can go to Maya Molo is on there, I think is on there too. So yes Sir, we've got that going. Chimano dropped a joint called Fashion. It's good to see him releasing some music produced by Afro Lectra, who has done a bunch of other songs that I know about. But then I can name them right now.

Yes. Let's see who else. Brandy Minor drops a song called Tango that was called Kahora teams up. I mean Ziki, sorry. Ziki teams up with Sophia, Sophie, Enzo for a song called Kahora that's also pretty decent. Guardian Angel? Which Shukrani? Steph Capella. Rick Miruka. I hope I'm pronouncing that right with a song called Cheesy. Dang, what else, what else, what else, what else? Just running through some of the releases. Do you want to? Oh, Mr. Frank.

White Mr. Frank White. We played him a few weeks ago, dropped a 2 pack with Davion. If I'm pronouncing it right, it's called MA Lovers rock, my lovers rock. So that was pretty cool. I'm I'm just interested in Mr. Frank White and the music is creating now like I just be listening to everything he does. It's very interesting for me. What did what did you listen to? I don't want to outside of that I listened to. Life of the party by Sora Kafi and Slumberland. That was cool.

I listened to Uko Piwa, essentially Uko wapi by Shawn Sosa, the prodigy and Lil minor produced by le Mario. That beat was insane. That beat was fire. That was that. In terms of beats, that's one of the better beats this week. But there was one beat that was just better than the rest of my opinion, and that was the beat to Messiah Beer by BD. I can't lie. I have to give him his props right now. King Fizzle, bro. King Fizzle killed it for me. Bro. That song is just so good.

I, I, I think, I think Messiah Biya might be my favorite BT song. Like that's out like that's, that's for me. It's just like everything just came together. The beat, his rapping like this. One of the best rappings I've heard from him too. Phenomenal. Very cool. Very. Cool the floors. And everything I love. I love fiction about party. He is the last. One I listened to was 20 G produced or released a song called Never Stop.

Yeah. I would assume he's like I don't know if he moved to Japan or something. Anyway, he released a song with Vox Vox and or some movie Jordan and it was really dope to see Twirly and then also wrapping a little bit in Japanese and stuff like that. That was very, yeah, called cross cultural. But doing collapse, Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like cross cultural. Cultural. Cultural, yeah. Get into the Japanese. Japanese community, yeah, I think that's what I listen to

some. Yeah, just to name a couple of products so love. Draft by Ken Aswani dropped if just modest Jabari on there and then another project called A Man of Naive by Brian Siegel. I haven't got into that, but I will get to it. I'll listen to it again. And then Kosto Drang released Imposter Syndrome No More, which is a very, very, very apartment title for a lot of artists, including myself. Impostor Syndrome Syndrome, not syndrome. Syndrome No More by Kosto Drang.

That's this is his second album, if I'm not wrong. Let me just get that right. Yes, his second project, his first one was when he was released in 2022. Yes. So I give this a listen. Of course, I need to go back and listen to it again, but I enjoyed it off the first listen. I enjoyed a couple of songs. Dance with Ambassador Mandela was pretty cool. I like that. I like Wabiru, that was dope too. Iyana was also one of my favorites. Jathoom and Traveler. And then Purpose with Mordecai decks.

I like Mordecai decks, man. I like his vocals. I like what he does. Fly away also with Quiz, which is interesting. Yeah, man, I need to go back and sit down with this project, but I I enjoyed it. I enjoy Costello Jones music. His his. He's becoming one of my favorites Kenyan artists. Yeah. Did you get time to to breathe? Yeah. So no, no I. I skimmed through a little bit of the songs, but you know, because our drawings fire you, you know, he's multi talented.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I told you, I'll never forget about the time I walked into a art installation in, oh, exhibition, sorry, in Village Market, and I saw his name in some of the paintings. Like, how diverse is this guy anyway? Yeah, it's very cool. It's very cool. It's very cool. Shout out to Costa. Shout out to Costa. I think we could play if since you always ask me AFAM, if you would allow me, I think we could play a song off this project.

I don't know where to go. I think I guess we could go Jatum. He features Salvara on there. This is definitely one of those I feel I think the song is going to go. It just sounds like it's sounds like it's primed for radio. So I think if we could do that. So Costo drunk from his album Imposter Syndrome No more, here is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here is. Jatum featuring Salvara. The. The I've been catching flies and I'm running back to you, Longing for

the days I spend with you. Let the music click away. All I'm only is your wish. Let me love you right away. It's your day, it's your game. Let me let me drive in your leg. When the drum plays at the home stage. Let me love us. I'm OK when the crowd is charging on and the people sing along. Everybody dancing on and the people sing along. The. The the Costa Ojwan. Savara with Jatun from his is a sophomore album, right? The second one is a sophomore

imposter Syndrome no more. It's a really cool song, yeah. Oh man. Yes, Sir, man, and that. Bro, that's that, that's episode 98 of the 30% podcast. Like I like to say at the end of every podcast, please guys, actually just yeah, listen to this podcast. I feel like this was a really yeah, this is a this is AI enjoyed some I enjoyed this conversation. You know what this was. You know the spot speaking. Of this podcast. Was no, I know.

You're about to get into it. This podcast was like a very, very lengthy version of the three CS is essentially what this this podcast was actually yes, it it. Was it was? And what are the three CS you ask if this is your first time listening to this podcast? Well, I will tell you the three CS are things that I concocted in my mind. See, I use the C word there. And one of them is consistency. If you're an artist listening to this podcast, I implore you to be consistent with your music

releases. Like I always say, I'm not asking you to release music every week or every two weeks or every month, but if you decide you're going to release a single every two months or an EP every six months, stick to that and you'll begin to see success. The other C is confidence, man. As an artist, I know how vulnerable putting your art out

there exposes. It leaves you like it's a very vulnerable experience because you're putting your art there and you're you're leaving yourself up to people saying, oh, this is cringe or this is not my vibe or this is amazing. It sucks. It's a it's a sucky feeling just leaving yourself open to people's perception of you.

But you have to be confident. You have to exude that aura of my music is amazing and there will be people who will engulf or just, you know, they'll feel that energy and it'll translate well. And lastly, craft always, always work on your craft. This is the part that even I need to like, take into. I need to take my own advice essentially because, you know, everyday.

You need to work towards. Like becoming better in your your field, whether it's, you know, watching music tutorials or reading an article about how to better market your music and stuff like that. Do something small, even if you're reading a paragraph of you know how to better publish or license your music, or if you're just watching a tutorial on how best to, you know, harmonize your your when you're recording or the best way or the best technique to mix your vocals. I don't know.

Whatever it is, try to do that every day. And you don't have to take a long time. You could even just take 5 minutes. And if you do that every day, everything will add up and you will be successful. Yep. I was just thinking someone like a a a starting artist who listens to like the the blueprint for for green yourself as an artist and becoming an intentional artist could think that that's a very, very difficult thing to do.

And but you just you just give like the sauce right now as as you are ending the three CS is set small goals set achievable. Goals that. Contribute to the whole picture and work on achieving those small goals. Don't always look at. Don't always use the bigger. Base the main goal to fuel your own self. That could be the overarching theme of what you're trying to do. But then set small goals. Very achievable, Very, very, very concise.

And then work on those and achieve those ones and set more goals. Achieve those and set more goals. And then before you know it, you'll be exactly where you want to be. And you might not have thought that you could make it, but you can. So yeah, man, it's doable. We need to see a lot more artists be conscious about getting to this places and this sports and. Yeah, go forth and create. You sound like at the end of like church, like Catholic Church, how they usually say go

forth. They usually say go. Forth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway, go forth and create. Guys. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. This was episode 98 and we shall see you for the 99th, 99th. Episode iteration. We out.