Ep 31: Oceana Mackenzie - Shingles at the Olympics?!

But there were actually so many things that went wrong, like even just while I was at the village. Yeah, I for one got shingles. Didn't meet like Raygun or anything like that. Oh my gosh, I don't even know who that is. The lead route in Tokyo, I was like sitting in the chair and I was just like crying and crying and there was just like a camera like right in my face and I was just like, yeah, I'm not someone who like, I don't want to have kids or anything like that.

Welcome to the season four premiere of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest Oceana Mackenzie. She goes by Oce, is a boulder and lead climber from Australia. She's had an amazing 2024 season with her first World Cup boulder medal in Prague

and also recently competed in her second Olympics. In this episode, we'll learn about how she battled three health issues while competing in the Paris Olympics, how Paris compared to Tokyo, her training with team Switzerland and making lead climbing gains, and her thankfully far in the future plans for retirement. I hope you enjoy this episode with Oce. Oce.

Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode possible, Mad Rock Climbing. I got fitted with their brand new line of high performance shoes, the D2.ONES. They just came out December 6th, but you might notice a few of your favorite GOM climbers are already wearing them like Oscar Baudrand from Team Canada and also me. This is the first time I've gotten to wear their shoes for an extended period of time and I'm actually super

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today and have you started up training again? Yeah, today I feel pretty good. I just took a two week break from climbing, which is probably the longest I've taken since I had to do hotel quarantine after Tokyo Olympics. Wow. Okay. Like fully no climbing at all for two weeks? Cause some people say they take a break and really it's like, I just climbed a little bit less than usual. No, no, I actually took like two weeks off from climbing, which is pretty crazy for me. So

yeah, I just got back into climbing like last Friday. And yeah, it was a bit rough actually getting back into it. But yes, I'm just doing some super chill sessions at the moment. I'm going to climb later today just for fun. When you took that break, did you not want to climb at all or was it like very hard to be like, I'm not going to climb for these two weeks and I want to be like very strict about that. Yeah. I feel like I had to be pretty strict with myself going into it because

I knew that would be really hard for me to take the break. I actually was like, my body was really happy resting because I was feeling pretty tired after all the travel and comps and stuff. But mentally it was quite hard to just be like doing nothing for two weeks. I definitely struggled with that. So it was a good challenge for me, I guess. I guess why did you decide two weeks? Like if you wanted to do it, why, why not? Because I hadn't had a pretty long break in a while. I felt that

quite a bit at the end of this season. So I wanted to make sure that like right after the season, I just let my body and mind like recover a bit before getting back into training and like restarting everything again. Because even if I like mentally wanted to climb, my body was feeling quite fatigued and needed it. So yeah, I think it was just important for me to do it in the long run for next season and stuff like that. Makes sense. So yeah, I guess you're finally back

in Australia now. How was it being away from home for so long? You were gone for, I guess, when did you leave? Yeah, so I actually left in like December last year. And then I had like a 10 day trip back home after the China World Cup last year, in April. But really, I think it's been like six months for the longest it. Yeah, it's pretty rough, I think. Like, I'm fortunate to

have my sister live in Switzerland. So I have like almost a second base outside of Australia. And that makes it a lot easier having like family around and having somewhere that feels really comfortable. But yeah, like I said, like being around the dogs and like my family and stuff like that can be pretty hard. But ultimately, I really love traveling and doing all the comps. So it always works out. Yeah, I guess you were in Switzerland for quite a while, right?

Yeah, I'm usually there. I mean, it depends on kind of visa stuff. Yeah, I was there for like three months. And then like, I usually go back there and in between all the European comps, I'm in Switzerland as a base. So then if you're like in Switzerland for three months, and then you also have to go to some European comps, do you is there like a separate visa for that?

Yeah, it's a bit tricky. So I actually have a New Zealand passport, because my parents are from New Zealand, which is really handy because you can actually spend 91 days in each European country. So I'm really fortunate with that. But it just means that I have to like, make sure that I'm kind of going around Europe a bit more to make sure my day is like allocated properly. But it's also still really scary, I guess doing that because even though it's a rule,

it's kind of like an unwritten rule, so to say. So some countries, like, are fine with it and know the rule and other countries don't really know it. So you have to be really careful where I'm leaving from. So like, see if they know the rules, I guess. So I always try not to like, actually stay that long just in case I come into any problems, I don't really want to have to like,

deal with explaining that I'm allowed to be in there and, you know, like provide paperwork. So yeah, but usually, if you're on an Australian passport, you have to be in Europe for 91 days, and then you have to be out again for 91 days. So that can be really hard for a lot of the European comps, especially because some of them are actually like the start of the European to the end, is longer than three months. And obviously to like go back to Australia is really expensive,

and go back to Europe, it's like a whole thing. So logistical challenges for sure. Yeah. So you mentioned your sister is in Switzerland. I think I also heard that your coach is in Switzerland. Yeah, so my my coach is Will, and he now coaches the Swiss team. Okay, so how did you go about finding this coach who's all the way in Switzerland from Australia? Actually, he's originally from Australia. Okay. And he's been my coach for like, 10 years, I think.

And the Swiss team actually approached him at one of the World Cups. So he started like, two years ago, I think. And then he moved over there. And I've kind of just like, followed him around a bit, joined him with the Swiss team sessions and stuff like that, which is really fun. Yeah. Is it like hard having a coach not being in person when you're training? It can be especially like, with time difference and things, it can be quite hard.

But I think ultimately, like, Will has always been my coach where he like writes my programs. But he also before was coaching the Swiss team, he was doing route setting. So he hasn't always been like super hands on with me in sessions, I guess. So it really it's just opened up like, more opportunities for me to climb with him in sessions with the Swiss team. Which is, yeah, worked out really, really well, actually. Yeah, I guess I've always just been kind of curious

about like, what athletes training looks like with coaches? Is it he mostly just like writes training plans for you? Or is it a lot more like movement on the wall kind of stuff? Because I imagine that would be hard remotely. Yeah, it is. So he Yeah, he writes all my programs and stuff like that. And when I'm in Switzerland, we do a lot of like, he makes up all of the boulders for me. And he obviously like sets like comp simulations and things like that. And then also we do a lot of

like mental debriefs, I guess. When I'm in Australia, I'm usually just getting the programs from him and just again, like doing some debriefs over messages and things like that. But yeah, when he's in Switzerland setting, it's obviously a bit hard for me to like get climbing specific stuff from him. So I just kind of do that by myself or with my sister or friends. Yeah. So I guess kind of

speaking of your sisters, I know a little bit of the story. But for anyone who doesn't know the story would probably be good for them to get that info. So in general, how did you start getting into climbing and competing? Yeah, so my mom took my sisters to like the local climbing gym. When they

were younger, and they kind of just like picked it up and really enjoyed it. And then I eventually just because I did everything that my sisters did, I got into it and got hooked like straight away and then started doing comps and realized that was something that I really, really loved. And so I just got into it that way. And since the first competition, I was like, yeah, this is really fun. I love this. I want to do it. And yeah, one of my sisters is a rootsetter.

And she was also able this year to come and like travel with me to all the World Cups. So that was been really cool as like my official. And yeah, she's pretty much like a mentor for me, like role model helps out a lot with like the mental side of climbing for me, like doing debriefs after comps and I guess kind of helped me develop my like philosophy of climbing, I guess I would say and like how I want to like spend my career and things like that.

Does she like have her own comp experience as well? Yes, a little bit. She did a few like state titles and nationals when she was younger. But she didn't really like competitions, it just stressed her out way too much. Fair. But she watched a lot, a lot of World Cups when she was well, she still does, but also when she was younger. So I guess you mentioned like several of your sisters also climb. Did you ever feel like competitive against them when you were growing up?

I had maybe a little bit when I was younger, but to be honest, I was kind of like a really snazzy little kid. So I was always trying to like beat the guys mostly, like trying to show them up a lot of the time, like all the local dudes at the gym. Nice. But also one thing that I really liked about climbing like and still do when I was younger is like that the challenge is that you're just trying to climb something and not really like

going against someone. Because I feel like actually when I was younger playing sports where I was up against someone, it didn't feel as satisfying and it was and I didn't really like that like competitiveness with someone else. So with climbing, it's so nice that you're just like trying to focus on just climbing climbs instead of just like climbing.

Climbing climbs instead of like trying to beat someone. But yeah, I definitely would say when I was younger, I was pretty competitive and always wanted to beat the dudes in the gym. Okay. And that worked out well for you? Yeah, I think so. Awesome. Yeah, I got that feeling, but I won't go into it too much. So I heard that you are the youngest of five sisters? Six. I've got five sisters, so the six of us.

Okay, yeah. So being the youngest, especially of so many kids, I feel like sometimes the youngest gets an advantage with maybe like harnessing all of the knowledge from your older siblings, especially if they do the same hobby. Do you feel like that happened with you at all? Yeah, for sure. I mean, like I said, my sister, she has so much knowledge about climbing. And same with my mom, like she climbed when she was younger a little bit and still does.

So definitely I adopted like a lot of their ideas on climbing and movement and things like that, which I'm really grateful for. But I would also say that, yeah, being the youngest of six girls, I just gained a lot of like, I know life lessons from all of my sisters and yeah, the way that I do competitions and traveling and that kind of thing. Yeah, I guess I have yet to see it with like Meiji and Tomoa to see which one

is getting all of the knowledge. They're, they kind of swap every now and then. But yeah, I'm also the younger sibling. I mean, of only two, but I feel like you kind of get that advantage. But then also maybe this is just me, but I feel like sometimes the youngest doesn't always have the best work ethic. And so then it kind of evens out. Feel that way by any chance. Yeah, I mean, definitely with climbing, I think I have a good work ethic, but with everything else,

yeah, maybe not so much. Kind of get everything else handed to me a little bit. I mean, even having all the knowledge from my sisters, I feel like, yeah, I don't really have to work that hard to learn things just like, oh, what do I do here? How do I do this? Like, yeah, just do this. And then I kind of just go along a lot of the time where I've probably benefited a bit from thinking about things and doing it my own way. Do you ever, do you feel like, well, now I'm just thinking

because I never really felt like it was hard to ask for help. Maybe just because I always had my sister there that I could ask and it would be like, fine. Do you feel like, do you feel that issue? Because a lot of people talk about that. I'm like, I don't know, I'll ask for help whenever I want. Yeah, no, I think I'm, yeah, I'm usually just like, oh, this is a problem for me. What can I do? Yeah. I don't know if that's a, yeah, I think that's a good thing.

Yeah, maybe we're discovering things about being younger children. Yeah. And I also heard my sister complained that she got disciplined a lot more than I did as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I think that definitely happened in my family too. I mean, I get to like travel the world climbing during competitions. I feel like my other sisters didn't really get that opportunity. So definitely some pros of being there, being the youngest.

Nice. Well, we can be happy about that. So yeah, going into your travels and the recent Olympics that had happened. In general, how was the Paris Olympics experience for you? Yeah. I mean, it's actually kind of a crazy competition for me because I had a really great time. I really enjoyed it. Like being in the Australian building, being there with all the athletes. Like the competition was really fun. The venue was great. And like my, I felt like my

mental state going into that comp was really, really good. Like I was feeling really confident and had a really good plan. But there were actually so many things that went wrong. Like even just while I was at the village. Yeah. I, for one, got shingles while I was there. Wait, what? How? Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know. I guess usually shingles comes on due to stress, which I guess makes sense with a comp like the Olympics. But that was kind of wild. Like I had

a huge rash all down my side. I had like all my lymph nodes were really swollen. So it was like my whole neck was really painful. And yeah, I was pretty uncomfortable most of the time, especially in the heat. That was pretty rough. I also had like my wisdom teeth coming through on like the same side. Oh my God. Yeah. I then also subluxed my shoulder a few days before

climbing. So there's like a lot of crazy things happened, but somehow I was able to just like have so much trust in all my support team and just be like, all right, well, I mean, I'm not going to compete at the Olympics. So let's just deal with this and go with it. And yeah, I guess it worked out pretty well somehow. I don't know how, but like looking back on it, like that was the rough, but I was just vibing the whole time. So.

Wow. I mean, did you like resolve any of like the shingles issues before you started competing or was it still happening as you were competing? I mean, it was happening while I was competing, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I was on some medication and had some creams and stuff. And I also was wearing like bandages to like cover up the rash and things like that, which helped with like the irritation of my uniform scratching me. Yeah. But yeah, it, yeah, I don't even know. I guess I was

just like fully ready to just give it everything. So it didn't really matter what happened. I was like, it's time to go. So whatever. Yeah. Okay. I mean, how was like the, how was the village experience? Did you get to experience that or were you just like laying in bed the whole time trying to solve these issues? Yeah, it's a bit of a shame. I didn't get to like do as much as I would have wanted in the village. I mean, it was still really cool. And I had a few days where I could like

explore. And I would say especially the Australian building was like really amazing. We had our own barista that came from Australia to like make coffees and larger and stuff like that. And we had a full like nutrition team, which was making like, we didn't have to go to the dining hall for breakfast or lunch because they like made lots of meals for us, which was really good because we made lots of meals for us, which was really good because I'm vegan and gluten free and the

dining hall wasn't the best for that. So yeah, it was like amazing to have that. And like just the the team environment in the building was really nice and like really relaxed and there was lots of areas to chill out. So that was nice for me while I wasn't feeling super good. But yeah, I mean, the village was crazy. It's always so cool to see just so many different athletes around. When we're just surrounded by climbers, you get this idea of what an athlete is. And then you go

to the Olympics and there's like, just so many different people. And yeah, it's really, really

amazing to see. Yeah, was there anyone you like talked to that was like a big inspiration? That's not the word I'm looking for. Anyone like on the Olympic teams that you talked to that you were just like super excited for that you were like fangirling over? Actually, not much. I don't really follow any other sports except climbing. Yeah, like I and because I was quite sick, I didn't even

really get to talk to that many people like in the Australian building. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did get to talk a little bit like the water polo team, which I think they won silver at the Olympics, which was pretty cool. And they were fun to chat to and like, yeah, hear about water polo. But yeah, unfortunately, not not much. I'm pretty big focused on climbing. Didn't meet like Ray Gun or anything like that. Oh my gosh, I don't even know who that is. Wait, what? Like the break dancing

Australian? Oh, okay. No, no, I do know. I do know. Okay, sorry. Sorry. Okay. No, I didn't get to see that. Okay. I'm really bad with names. Fair. What's what's like the sentiment in Australia on her at the moment? Um, to be honest, it's pretty mixed, I think. I mean, in my feelings anyway, I think it was a bit dramatic for everyone to react the way they did. I don't think anyone should be treated the way she did. But also, yeah, her style was very unique. So I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's an

interesting situation, I guess. Yeah. I'm not sure how the selection really a diplomatic take. Yeah, the selection policy works with break dancing, but it seems interesting. Yeah. Okay, we can leave it

at that. So you made it to the finals round, which was your goal, I believe. So congrats on that. How did the finals boulders feel in comparison to the qualities? And I guess the lead route as well? Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. Um, I guess I can actually go with leaf vest because for qualities, I was really nervous on the lead wall, like, because I knew that I had a pretty good bouldering

round and that I just had to like, put in a solid lead performance and I could make finals. Um, and yeah, it was definitely pretty scary and I was a bit like stiff and it didn't climb the best. So and actually after the bouldering round in finals, I also came across a feeling like I climbed that well. So I was pretty much just like, okay, let's just, I didn't think that I had a chance at making a medal after my bouldering round for some reason. So I was just like, okay,

I'll just go out and climb and try really hard, which I did. I'm pretty happy with in general, like with the training I did for lead, I feel like I climbed the best I could on the route, which I can't really ask for more. Obviously I always want to climb better and be stronger, but that's just how it is. Um, and yeah, for, for Boulder Qualies, I was so nervous. It was crazy.

Like just walking from ISO to the call zone, I was feeling so nervous. Um, but eventually I like, was just blasting my music and I was like, okay, you can go out there and just, just try hard, like, saw the crowd. I was like, all right, this is going to be a good time. Um, and yeah, once, after I flashed the first boulder, I was like, all right, this is, this is pretty good. I'm feeling good. Um, and from then on just like had a great time and felt really good. Um, like, yeah, it was

just so much fun with that big crowd and I really enjoyed the boulders. Um, yeah, in finals, it was a little bit unsatisfying, I guess. I just feel like there were definitely a few things that I should have done or felt like I could have done. So yeah, and I guess I didn't really like the, the steep boulder is usually like, or the physical boulder is usually one of my favorites of the round. I quite like intensity. So, and I didn't really enjoy that boulder this round. Um, so kind

of just like, wasn't as fun as Qualies to me, I would say. Um, and then yeah, I also usually like coordination, but couldn't really figure out a solution on the coordination border. There were just a few things where it was like, ah, damn, okay. I mean, you always learn so much in competitions, but I guess it, yeah, at the Olympics, it was like, I of course wanted to execute perfectly, which isn't going to happen every time, but it's going to leave me with a bit frustrated

and unhappy. Um, but yeah, I mean, overall, I, I was pretty happy with my climbing in general and, and had a really good time. I guess since your goal was just to make finals, once you made finals, did that, did you kind of feel like the weight was taken away from you and you could just kind of climb for fun or once you heard that you made finals, then you, you know, created the next goal, which is like, oh, I should try to podium now. Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty, yeah, I think every

athlete is good at like moving the goalpost as soon as you get your goal. Um, but to be honest, but to be honest, considering everything that had happened, yeah, just before climbing, it started like with my shoulder and shingles and everything. I was really, really happy to have made finals. And I felt like I could just go and enjoy and, and just climb hard. Um, but yeah, for sure. In the back of my mind, I was like, well, let's not go in here and just like

mess about, like you can make podium and you should try a hundred percent. So a bit of both, I guess. Makes sense. Um, any regrets from Paris that you can think of? Ooh, question. Yeah, actually, no, I don't think so. Okay. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Like nothing you think you could have done better other than maybe on

those like two boulders that you mentioned. I mean, yeah, it's always tricky to climb because I mean, after a round, there's always so many things that you think of that are like, oh, if I just done this, it would have been better. But ultimately like me not doing those certain boulders made me want to work harder on them after, which then leads to like getting better

and progressing. So yeah, it's hard. Obviously I would have liked to have done all the boulders in the finals and, and being a perfect round, but then also, yeah, I then realized that I needed to work on certain style of coordination and that kind of thing. So yeah, I wouldn't say I even

have any regrets, but yeah, I know. Yeah. I'm pretty happy with it. Please excuse this brief intermission, but if you're interested in deleted scenes from this episode where her sister's dog makes an appearance and we talk about how she funded her past comp season, do consider helping support this podcast on Patreon. Some other perks include a membership pin shipped to you after two months, prioritize guest questions or the ability to submit video questions and much more to come.

The proceeds go back into the podcast to help me break even and they help me improve the experience of the guests. If you'd like to help out non-monetarily, liking, commenting and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back to the show. So you're one of the very few athletes who

participated in both the Tokyo and Paris Olympics. And surely they were very different because the Tokyo one was still kind of in this like COVID, COVID-y area, era of times. So how would you compare your experiences there? Is there like anything that stood out? Yeah. I mean, they honestly felt like completely different in every way possible in like, yeah, my preparations, how I was feeling about climbing, even competing there. And then also after like

going into Tokyo, I was not very psyched on climbing in general. Like we were in lockdown in Australia, in Victoria, where I live and it was like pretty strict. Like you could only go outside for like one hour a day. We had access to the climbing gym. Yeah, it was pretty rough. Yeah, we had access to the climbing gym, but it was just a few people. So it was like just that pretty much the people competing for the Olympics. So it was pretty like lonely in general in training

sessions. And yeah, obviously not like one of my favorite things to do is travel and do World Cups and I couldn't do that before Tokyo. So my motivation was just low and I couldn't really see many of my friends that kind of thing. Like it was just, I guess everyone, it was a pretty rough time. So yeah, going into the comp, I like was not feeling confident, not that happy in general. So it was hard to enjoy even being in Tokyo in the village. Like I don't honestly feel

like I even blanked it out a lot. Like I don't remember doing much around the village because I was just like not in a good space. And then yeah, after climbing, I like had major burnout and really did not love climbing and we had to do like two weeks quarantine. And I think that was like actually kind of nice to have a forced like break and mental, I don't know, like I could really just think about like all the pre Tokyo and what I wanted to do from then because yeah, it was just

like a pretty rough time. Like I don't know, after I finished climbing, I think I cried like the whole night just like straight. It was crazy. I was just so upset and yeah, it was pretty rough. Like from the results or just like having to climb? Yeah, I guess a bit of everything. I think I knew that I wasn't feeling that good. But then I obviously wanted to climb well, but then I definitely felt like I didn't.

And so it was like this like mental release of having to prepare for this comp. And it also was because I couldn't do any other World Cups. It was like the one comp I was focusing on, which for me, I guess I did a little bit with Paris. It was definitely the comp I was peaking for, but I worked really hard going into Paris to treat it just like any other World Cup that I was competing at because if I put so much pressure on one competition, it then just, it leads to you not

enjoying it as much. And then I'm climbing not at my best and I'm really stiff and it's just not really a good situation, which for Tokyo was pretty much exactly what I did. It was like, this is your one competition this year. You got to like go where you want to do well and you want to feel good. And none of that happened. So it just like kind of just a crash after that was really hard. And I found it really hard to enjoy climbing and training after that.

But once I got home, we were still in lockdown and everything. So the only thing I could do was I, the only thing I could do was to leave the house was go climbing or go to the gym. That was kind of empty. So I wanted to go and get out of the house and that kind of thing. But I was also

just still feeling kind of, yeah, just really low. So yeah, that's kind of Tokyo. But going, yeah, I guess going into Paris, I was obviously like this season and last season, I just going to the competitions and climbing felt so amazing and I enjoyed it so much. And yeah, like I said, I wanted to just make Paris feel, even though when I got there and I started climbing and I made finals, it didn't feel like a World Cup. It definitely felt bigger

with like the crowd and having my parents there and just everything. It definitely felt bigger. But going into it and how I wanted to feel while I was climbing was like, these are just boulders. This is just a route. Like this is the process that you do in World Cups. It's going to be no different. I think that really, really helped and made it even more special that once I had made finals and it felt like this bigger thing, it was like, oh, it was really cool to have that process

and feel so good going into it with how I wanted to climb and everything. So yeah, definitely felt very, very different. Yeah. I guess in Tokyo or I guess after Tokyo, did you ever consider like quitting? Like, did you get to that point or was it just like you felt like you needed a long break? I think I didn't want to quit because I knew that I did still love climbing. I just needed to figure

out a way to do it where I did love it again. So it was kind of like just looking at what I was going to do next, which ended up being that my sister and I, the one who traveled with me this year, we went to Japan and Korea for like three months. And pretty much my only goal there was to just like enjoy climbing and have suns. And I pretty much fixed the problem after that. Yeah,

that was in like, I guess, 2022, I think, the pre-season. And yeah, we had so much fun climbing and I really tried to build up my confidence because after Tokyo, my confidence was really low about my climbing and everything. So yeah, I'm really glad that we decided to do that trip and really build up my slant again. Love for climbing. Any like crazy stories from Tokyo Olympics? Or just like the whole thing being in lockdown and that was crazy enough? Yeah, I mean, pretty

much. I think, yeah, also the having to do hotel quarantine after the Games was pretty wild. Like two weeks in a hotel, like no window, like couldn't open windows, that kind of thing was quite a unique experience. Yeah. Yeah. And to be honest, it wasn't like it sounds really bad. It wasn't all bad. I think after the experience of Tokyo, it was kind of nice to have that like decompress of just doing whatever I wanted or whatever I needed to each day. But I'm grateful

for the experience, but I will happily, hopefully never do it again. Right. Yeah. And there was like no crowd in Tokyo at all? Or were there like some people who were allowed to watch? No, there was like a few speckled people, but it was kind of like that awkward feeling when there's like not many people around and be like, yeah, come on. It was pretty low. It was pretty low, especially when you compare it to Paris, like the crowd was insane in Paris. So yeah, it was pretty awkward.

Yeah. Yeah. How'd you feel like the crowd or lack thereof of crowd affected you in Tokyo? It was just like silent, pretty much? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting though, because for me, in Tokyo, because I hadn't done comps in such a long time and I had been like in the isolated box of the lockdown, I actually like, because we obviously had the combined format for Tokyo and I got out to do speed first. And it actually just felt so overwhelming for me. Like I wasn't

prepared for that environment. Whereas Paris actually with even more crowd, I actually went out still feeling like way more prepared and it didn't feel as overwhelming somehow, which is interesting because obviously the crowd was much, much bigger and the environment was much, much bigger. But yeah, just having that exposure before Paris was like with all the world cups and things

was really, really good. No, yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, I think taking a break from competitions and then going back into like a first competition is kind of just like the worst feeling ever. Just because you're like not used to that pressured environment. But yeah, let's get into

the... Go ahead. Oh, good. I was just going to say after the lead route in Tokyo, I was like sitting in the chair and I was just like crying and crying and there was just like a camera like right in my face. And I was just like, ah, yeah, in Paris, I was just like, the camera's there, but I was like, that just is such a different contrast to the experience. It was like, oh my God, why these people filming me? Don't look at me. I hate this. And then in Paris, it was like, yeah, let's

go. Show the world climbing. Yeah. Okay. No, that's really interesting actually, because I think people kind of make a fuss when the cameras are really in the climbers faces when they're having emotional moments like that. I guess how did it feel being in that position in Tokyo? Yeah, not great for me in that time. Because even after that, you go through the mixed zone, like after you've climbed and I couldn't talk. There was so many interviews that I wanted to

talk to me, but I was so hysterical that I couldn't even talk to them. So it was pretty intense and it was such a shame that the first time climbing was in the Olympics and we could have been showcasing it, I was just so upset and couldn't even... It was so rough. It was like, oh, you know how you enjoy in the Olympics? And it was just like, I'm not, honestly. I can't even lie to you right now.

Yeah. So it was a bit intense and yeah, pretty rough time for that. So I'm glad that I was able to go to Paris and represent it and actually be able to talk to the camera and that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, I cannot imagine how it would feel having a camera in my face if I were sobbing, but also as a viewer, I'm like, it is good to see people's emotions and it makes it interesting. Yeah. I mean, I understand the necessity for it, but yeah, at the time it was a bit rough,

but that's okay. Okay. So going into the 2024 IFS season that you just came out of, you actually did a lot of the World Cups in 2024 season, unlike a lot of the other athletes who

were competing in the Olympics. I guess part of that was so that you could get the experience and make it feel like the Olympics was just another World Cup without all of the added pressure. Did you feel a difference in the season with a lot of the other athletes not competing? Yeah, I did actually. I mean, I think in general, when there's a lot of the top athletes not at the competitions, it can feel a little unusual, but I think it also then made the comps,

when everyone was there, feel a bit more special. I really enjoy it when, yeah, there's a lot of athletes there and everyone's competing and everyone's warming up together, it's really enjoyable. So it definitely feels different when there's a lot less athletes. Sometimes it can also be nice though, the competition is a lot quicker for qualities and things, which is nice, I think, for a lot of the athletes who don't have ranking points or something like that.

But it did make the comps that the athletes chose to go to, who weren't doing many comps, quite intense. Like I said, I think when you choose only a few comps, you then have a pressure to perform at that one competition that you're doing. So I would say that it was, yeah, the environment was a little more tense in general when everyone was there.

Yeah, that makes sense. And you had a really amazing 2024 season with better results than you've seen in the past, especially in LEAD. I guess, do you attribute that to anything in particular? I don't think it could have just been that some of the Olympic athletes weren't competing. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. While I've been training in Switzerland, I've been training with the Swiss athletes, especially like Sasha and a bunch of other

really amazing LEAD athletes that they have, has really, really helped me. And I was even able to join in on some of the Swiss team, like LEAD sessions with the LEAD coach, which was really, really nice and I think really helped in my LEAD climbing this year. They were all really helpful and yeah, I would pretty much dedicate it all to the Swiss team as my LEAD results.

Okay. I guess as a boulder, what do you feel like is the thing that really improved your LEAD ability in terms of like training or mindset or anything like that? I think something I really tried to focus on, at least in the pre-season for LEAD, was like the panic that I got when I would start getting pumped. Whereas when I saw something that I did a lot of was just watching like the Swiss athletes and how they reacted on the wall to certain things,

which was really helpful for me. So like Vincent's watching Sasha climb, like when he's really, really pumped, he can still just stay relaxed and like take a breath and continue on. Like even when you're pumped, you know, you can have that feeling where you just like keep fighting and it's possible. But I think all the time I would get pumped and get frazzled and like start chalking up a lot and

that kind of thing. So something that I focused on was even like not climbing with a chalk bag in the sessions that I could focus on the wall on resting. The certain things like that a lot really helped and watching different body positions on the wall that the other athletes would do just helped. And so how did you balance LEAD and bouldering training for this Olympics? I would say it was a little hard. I do feel like I always am kind of doing one better than the other.

It doesn't really feel like I had consistently felt good in both the whole year. But to be honest, I also didn't really feel like I was reaching my LEAD potential the whole season until copper, where I kind of always felt like something was kind of missing for me to like make the next step in my rope climbing. And I didn't really know exactly what that was. Like, I guess I still kind of don't know what the difference was between copper and the rest of the

comps. But it just, it felt really easy to like, just, yeah, I don't know, on the wall, everything just kind of felt right. And copper was the first comp where I felt really just like, really happy with every route that I did in the comp. Whereas I'm always, yeah, kind of less sure like all the other comps like, oh, yeah, I feel like I could have done this, but something wasn't quite right. And then I felt like I was just kind of like, oh, yeah, I feel like I could

have done this, but it's something wasn't quite right. And so, yeah, I think balancing boulder and lead is quite hard. But like I even was considering for next season to just do bouldering, because it can be quite hard to do both. But I ultimately made the decision not to just with the way the season's laid out. It doesn't really make sense. And also, I just love both of them so much that I'm just gonna have to hopefully find an even better way next year to balance both. So

maybe it's something I'm still working on. I'm entirely sure. Okay. So I mean, in terms of training for it, is it just like 50-50? Or do you like front load bouldering training or like front load lead training? Because it kind of comes at different times of the year, sort of. I haven't seen the schedule for 2025 yet. Yeah, it's pretty combined next year, actually. So it's pretty

similar times. Yeah. But I will be doing mostly bouldering training, just because that also improves your lead so much, the stronger you are and the better you climb the easier lead fields. Usually my take on it is bouldering training and then a few weeks or a month before the first

lead woke up, I'll do a really intense lead focus and endurance, building up my resistance. But this preseason, I will also be making sure to include some rope sessions that I'm still feeling confident and not losing that feeling of being on rope and the feelings that I got last year or this year for lead climbing. So I guess mostly bouldering, but also a little bit of lead. Well, hope to see

that it works out next season. And also congrats on your first ever World Cup medal, I believe. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, how did that feel? So good. It was so good. Yeah, I mean, for one, I just Prague is such a fun comp for me. Like I remember last year, I came seventh and in the semis, I just had so much fun. Like it's just such a great comp. And so I knew coming into it, I was like, oh, well, I know I'm going to have a good time. And after coming off a few like fourth places

and making some finals, I was like, if I'm in finals, I'm making podium at this comp. Like it's going to happen. This is the comp it's going to happen at. So yeah, once I made finals, I was feeling pretty good. Also nervous. Like I was like, okay, well, like, what if I don't do it? I really want this. Like I really want to make podiums. So there was like a few doubts. But yeah, also like going out, looking at the boulders, I was like, okay, yeah, you can do this. Like it's

a pretty good round for you, I think, with the style. And then yeah, actually making the podium. I didn't realize that I had after the last boulder, I thought that on attempts, Anon would have been third. So I like went over and everyone's like, good job. I was like, oh, yeah, thanks, you had two. And I was kind of like, oh, damn, like again, I'm going to be fourth. Ah, so frustrating. And then yeah, like looked out into the crowd and my coach was like, you can do that. And then I was

like, so stoked and like my sisters ran over and the Swiss team and like everything. And it was, yeah, it was really, really, really cool. I was so happy. That's awesome. How, I guess like, what is it about Prague that stands out to you in terms of like being more fun than the other World Cups? Yeah, I don't know. I think I really enjoy the city in general, like it's really good food, good coffee, like cafe culture. I quite enjoy the venue. And I think the last two years,

Manu Hasler has set the Prague. And I really seem to enjoy his style of setting. So kind of combination of those things, I think. I didn't realize that. I mean, I guess I know that that would make a big difference. But I didn't realize that they, that you can like kind of expect them to be setting certain comps. So then you can kind of expect that you would like the style more. Yeah, but it's interesting because usually it's not like certain setters set at a certain comp,

so to say. But I, we realized after this comp in Prague that he had set for it twice. And I guess I didn't put two and two together, but I was just knew that I really enjoyed Prague last year. And as well, like with the crowd was really big and the music was good. And then I enjoyed it a lot again this year. And it was like, oh, okay, I guess there's a common theme where he's also setting the boulders that were there. So yeah, do you like know who's setting beforehand

before the comps? Yeah, it's usually in the info sheet. I don't check that often, I guess, because I don't am going or a lot doesn't really like change that much for me. But yeah, we can find out if we want to. Okay, I was just kind of wondering if there's like a person's name that you see as the center and you're like, oh crap, this is not gonna go well. I think sometimes we'll see it and be like, more intrigued. We'll be like, oh, interesting,

I wonder how this comps gonna go like seeing the style. But there hasn't been a comp where I've been like, oh, I'm not psyched on that. So that's good. Okay, that's good. Yeah. I think I heard you say on another podcast somewhere that you climb your best when you're having fun. And I do hear a lot of people say that. But a lot of times when I hear that, I wonder how much of that is actually just I'm only having fun when I'm climbing my best. Yeah, that's a good one. This is something that

I've been thinking about a lot this year, actually. Because obviously, yeah, I've had a great time, like, pretty much every World Cup has been a lot of fun. And I was like, oh, you know, this makes sense. Like, I'm gonna climb well when I'm having fun. But then yeah, I was like, also though, I haven't really climbed bad. So it's interesting to know. Yeah, like if, yeah, if I'm having a bad comp, is it just as easy to say, like, you can still have fun and it's okay? I don't know, it's

also something I'm still trying to work out a bit. But something that I do try and just focus on every competition is like, trying my best doesn't necessarily mean a certain outcome. It's like, whatever I can do on that day is my best and trying to just be okay with what that is. And also just trying to focus on every round. Like, I definitely found in Innsbruck after Salt Lake when I had made finals, I was already thinking about climbing in semis to make finals, rather

than focusing on qualities. So I wasn't able to like stay present and it didn't enjoy it as much. And then I didn't climb as well. So it's kind of like the whole process that you have to have to enjoy climbing and then also climb well, I think. Can you think of a comp where it didn't go well, but you still had fun? I guess, I don't know if I would even consider Innsbruck not well, but in semis, I don't feel like I climbed my best, but I still did enjoy the round. I mean, it was a brutal

round. It was like one top got you into finals. So it was really hard setting, but I did enjoy the style quite a lot. So I felt pretty beat up after, but I was like, to be honest, still some fun boulders. Way too hard, but a fun round. Maybe that's one of them. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Okay. And last question I kind of had about the IFSC season. I guess this

is also kind of just like a general question. I don't remember what prompted me to wonder this, but do you prefer when finals are in the same day as semis or when it's separate? And like, how does it affect your preparation? Yeah, that's also a good question. I think for lead, I really like it when we do semis in the same day. And I think that's also a good thing. I think it's better to have semis and finals in the same day and then finals is by itself the

next. Just in terms of like warm up and that kind of thing, it just is a lot easier. For bouldering, I think it's better to have semis and finals in the same day. Because to do a quality round in bouldering and semis, we've done that. I think it's only happened once in Innsbruck and it is way too tiring. So yeah, I think for lead, I like qualies and semis the same day, but for bouldering finals and semis in the same day is better. Well then, I guess looking far into the future,

the Olympics will eventually be in Australia in 2032. Yes. Time is moving fast. It is still a little while from now, but do you have eyes set on that? Yeah, I do. A part of me really wants it to be like my last competition where I retire because it's what Akina Gucchi did for Tokyo. I just like that would be really cool. But then also another part of me hopes that I'm still doing well comps

after that. So I'll just want to be there either way. Yeah, I mean, why not? If I'm still enjoying it and wanting to, I hope to be climbing for a long, long, long time like Shane Kim and stuff like that. So I'm all to go to them. How old will you be at that time? 31, I think. Yeah, not bad. Yeah, I guess you would definitely be on the older end of athletes who are competing at that time, especially if you want to continue doing it after. Can you imagine anything that

would make you not want to go for the Olympics? I don't think so. I mean, I'm not someone who I don't want to have kids or anything like that. Oh really? So that wouldn't be something that stops me. Yeah. You're already certain about that? Yeah, pretty much. I've kind of known for a while that I didn't want to have kids. I have a lot of sisters and I then already have a lot of nieces and I love spending time with them. And yeah, I think I, like I said, I want to be climbing for

a long time and focusing on that. So yeah, it's not really something I was very interested in from a young age and still I'm not. Okay. I think that makes the choice a lot easier actually, because I don't know, I feel like it must take, I mean, it definitely takes a lot out of you, like mentally, but also like physically, it's like a huge, it's a huge thing to ask. So yeah, that's good that you've already made that decision because then you can just like plan your life

around that. I feel like I'm kind of in like this undecided phase. So it's like, well, I don't really know what to plan for because maybe I will and maybe I won't. Yeah, it's an easy decision, I guess. I feel like I'm kind of lucky that I do since I was like maybe 16 even. I was like, nah, nah, it's not really for me. Yeah. Okay. Well then it'll be a lot easier for you to keep climbing as you

get older. Yeah. So outside of climbing, is there anything that you've been like particularly enjoying recently or anything you've done in like the past couple of weeks when you haven't been climbing that you really liked? Yeah, I'm really into baking. Like I said, I'm like vegan and gluten free, so it always adds a little extra challenge to that mix. But yeah, I really like baking. I think eventually one day I want to like own my own gym with my sisters and have like a little

bakery on the side of it. Oh, that would be so nice. Do you have like a recipe that you want to share? I am obsessed with like lemon and poppy seed cake at the moment and like a lot of citrusy things. Is it easy to make? Yeah, pretty easy. I usually do like a one bowl like situation and then you just pop it in the oven and it comes out delicious. So yeah, maybe I'll check out my Instagram at some point. Maybe I'll put a recipe up or something. Right. Highlights. Yeah, I'll add that to the show

notes if people want to find out. Yes. But yeah, actually when we were in Korea, Korea has like so many amazing bakeries and cafes and they have salt bread. Have you heard of that? No, I don't think so. Okay, it's almost a cross between a croissant and like a fluffy bread and they put like this really coarse salt on top of it. It's like one of the best things I've eaten. It's actually insane. And we can't find it in Australia, like a vegan version. So I tried to make it the other day.

I failed really hard, but it's something that I'm looking forward to trying again and testing out because yeah, it's quite a fun process. It's almost similar to making croissants. Like it takes a lot of time and patience. So it could be an interesting one. Well, I hope that works out. Was it vegan when you were in Korea, the salt bread? Yeah, vegan and gluten free. I don't know how they did it. It was so fluffy and amazing. So yeah, Korea's on another level with like vegan gluten free

gluten free baking type of stuff. I know. Really? I wouldn't have expected that at all. Yeah, they have like the highest amount of vegan gluten free bakeries out of anywhere I've been. It's insane. Yeah, that's really surprising. Like usually when I think of Asian countries, I think it's like pretty meat heavy and like even Korea like, or not dairy, they don't like drink a lot of dairy, but just like dairy and like cooking and stuff like that. Yeah. I think Korea's one of

the places that's like, they have a lot of vegan restaurants and cafes. It's like not super easy to find them, but once you do, there's a lot. It just means that like a lot of the restaurants have like no vegan options until you go to like a vegan place. There's not like a lot of options just in the regular restaurants. You have to like find them, but when you do, really good. Yeah,

I guess this is kind of one of the discord questions that we'll get into early, but someone asked how do you navigate a vegan diet while traveling for competitions? Yeah, it can be pretty hard sometimes. To be honest, in like Europe and the US and stuff, it's quite easy. And we usually get Airbnbs so that we can cook our own meals, which is really helpful. The hardest place that we've found is usually like in the competitions in China, just because the buffets

don't usually offer like, yeah, like offer anything vegan, which is quite hard. But so for comps like that, we take a lot of our own food. Like I'll take oats and protein powder and things like that. So breakfasts and then we do a lot of cooking in a kettle, to be honest. Like in the hotels. Yeah, we'll find a grocery store and find like rice noodles or something and boil them with vegetables and just buy like some soy sauce or stock or something like that, which can be a good

tip. Hopefully for next year, we're going to get like a little like travel cooker, which I think will be a little more hygienic and better. But so far, that's been our solution.

Yeah, and you seem to, I guess, really enjoy Japan and Korea. Any like particular reason? Like is it just the climbing or the culture or are you like a weeb or a Koreaboo? Yeah, I mean, Japan, for sure, I mean, the climbing is amazing. And it's kind of like one of the first, I think it was my first World Cup was in Japan. I just remember going and climbing at B-Pump and and like meeting a lot of like my role models in climbing and inspiration. So it has like a special

place in my heart, I guess. But I also, I'm like learning Japanese. I love the food. I love matcha. It's like, I love just in general being there, like the shopping and I just love Japan in general for everything about it. And Korea is pretty similar, I guess. I again, the climbing style is really fun. The food is good. The people are really lovely. I love K-pop. So there's just a lot of things about them that I really enjoy. Do you like watch anime or like K-dramas or anything like that?

Yeah, I not so much at the moment. I just watched culinary wars, which was really good. Which is like a Korean cooking show. But I do yeah, I do really get into Korean dramas. And I've watched a little bit of anime, but not as much anime. Yeah. Okay, anything you'd want to recommend? Haikyuu for anime is amazing. And actually like really motivating for competitions and climbing,

I think. And feeling a bit down sometimes I think it can be a really good show. And my favorite K-drama is Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-ju. So those are like kind of sports related, right? Haikyuu is the volleyball? Haikyuu is the volleyball one? Yeah. I guess do you ever so like sometimes if I am like not super psyched to go do a climbing session, I will watch like climbing on YouTube or like watch climbing competitions. Do you ever watch competitions to get psyched for training or competitions?

Not a lot actually. I feel like I'm getting more and more into music as a motivation. But I would say that there have been times when I've randomly got a lot of inspiration from like watching outdoor videos of people. Like if I'm just scrolling on YouTube or something and I see videos come up and they're like, oh wow, okay, this made me really inspired for rock. So it could be something that I should try out actually.

Well, I mean if Haikyuu works for you to get psyched, I guess that works as well. Yeah, true. One of my last questions, is there a little fact about you that you would like repeated on the live stream other than just she goes by Osh? Yeah, it's actually funny because I've said like, oh, you know, like you can call me anything. I really don't mind. But now it's kind of funny when people just like on the street will be like,

call me by Osh because I guess it's like a nickname. So one of my friends calls me Osh. Because I guess it's like a nickname. So one of my friends call me that. And it's kind of a weird feeling to have like strangers now know me as Osh. I'm like, oh, oh yeah, okay. Yeah, it's a funny one. But yeah, a fact that I want people to know about. I don't know. I feel like that's such a hard question. I feel like people know most things about me now. Like usually my like pictures that I'm vegan.

Yeah. And it has to be like really short. Yeah, maybe that I love to bake. Okay. We'll see if that one gets picked up instead of the other one.

Okay, so I think those are all of my questions. We can get into some of the discord questions now. The first one I'm not sure about. This person asked, could you imagine doing a Swiss bouldering comp next year? Not sure if you're eligible. Yeah, I think I technically can compete at the Swiss Cups. But I don't think I would just because I don't really think it fits in that well with like preseason training and stuff like that. But maybe I'd go and watch in Gia if I'm around.

I mean, are you planning on doing this like huge travel season again this year? Or are you going to stay in Australia more? No, actually, I plan on doing Beat Trip again. So I'm going back to Europe in January. Where I'll be in Switzerland for a little while. I'm really keen to do some training in Paris and a little bit maybe in Germany. And probably I'll go to Innsbruck for a trip. You got to when you're in Europe.

And then from there, I will go to Japan before the first World Cup of the season in China. And pretty much just like hopping around from comp to comp until September, when we have World Champs in Seoul, and then after that head home. So another big year. Wow. Smaller than this one. Okay, so like another 9-10 months.

Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, would be. Yeah, I feel like for me now, when I think about it in like a lump sum, it's like, damn, but the year goes so fast that it honestly doesn't even feel like it. And then when I get back home, it's like everything's back to normal. So it's kind of crazy. I don't know. Well, that's kind of good. Okay, next question. This person read in your profile

that you know Japanese. Do you have any particularly interesting experiences in Japan? The first one that comes to mind is once my sister and I got back late from training, and we wanted to find some soba noodles for dinner. And we found this tiny little noodle shop and there was like all these old ladies there, like who were the cooks. And I was like trying to communicate with them that we were vegan and like just telling them the foods that we couldn't eat

and the foods that we could eat. And I was like trying to do it in Japanese while they also trying to speak some English, which was like a really wholesome experience. That was pretty nice. Kind of satisfying. Yeah. What level do you feel like your Japanese is at? Honestly, I've been doing it for so long, but I feel like it's never been that bad. Honestly, I've been doing it for so long, but I feel like it's not that great. Yeah. How long have you been learning?

I think since like, I would say properly learning. I'm pretty off and on, especially throughout the season. Like during the comps when I'm getting a bit more fatigued, I don't do it as much. But like in pre-season, I was doing it pretty like quite a lot. But I feel like I'm maybe just above basic. I don't know. Hard to say as well. With like the random topics that I know and don't know. Yeah. I mean, are you just doing it through like Duolingo or something else?

I was doing a lot through Duolingo, but also YouTube and then like podcasts and things like that. I feel like it's probably a hard language to learn. So it's cool that you know any. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. So last question. Do you feel like gyms in Australia are too focused on profits and not

focused enough on progression in the sport? For example, setting harder boulders, thorough testing of those boulders, et cetera? I would definitely say that gyms in Australia are more focused on commercial climbing than on professional climbing. And I think, yeah, I think there are a lot of people in Australia who are

wanting to get more and more kind of competition style setting and things like that. But because it was such a small community, a lot of setters are kind of getting a bit burnt out and don't quite have the energy for it at the moment, which is a bit of a shame. So yeah, I mean, I do a lot of my training on on spray walls and things just because I think it's hard for gyms to keep up the

standard of competition style climbing, especially like World Cup level. We do have a lot of really some really good setting in Australia, but it's just not still not at the level of World Cups, for sure. Yeah, I guess like what is kind of the level of difficulty of gyms in Australia? Like, do you feel like you can learn and progress on it? Or is it kind of like you go to the gym and you can do everything? Yeah, I would say most of the time it's maintenance in the gym for me.

It doesn't usually, usually like occasionally we do get some really great sets, but most of the time it's kind of like, I don't get anything too mentally and physically challenging. And that's why I do a lot of like spray wall or like illuminates, I guess. That's kind of one of the biggest issues for me in Australia is they're like for training, I don't get that like extra

push that I need to progress as much as I want. And even if that's not just in boulders, it's also in like the environment and the support in Australia, just in general for competition climbing. Which obviously when I go to Switzerland and everything, I can train at the Swiss Training Centre around other athletes with a coach there. So it's like just the environment leads to progression in such an easy way. Like having competition around you. Yeah, exactly. And in a

motivating way to like the people are really great. I think I just like click really well with the team there too, which is really helpful. In Australia, something that I want to work on is like it not being a kind of maintenance place for me to train, but somewhere that I can while I am back home also progress. So still working on it. Yeah, I mean, I guess your sisters also climb a

bit and you mentioned that you were kind of considering owning a gym one day. Is that something like super far in the future or are they like, you guys are doing a little research? I think it's still pretty far, unfortunately, in the future. At the moment, just don't have the funds for it. Especially while I'm already trying to fund for this. It is quite expensive. Yeah. And right now, the focus is on like just funding the seasons and also being able to like bring my

sister as my support person. That kind of thing is taken up all of that. So one day it will happen.

Oh, I guess I forgot to ask about that in terms of like how your sister manages to travel around with you for the whole season. Yeah. So this year I tried to like fund as much as I could for her. She also like had some savings from work in general and she did do a little bit of work overseas as well, setting in some gyms. But yeah, because she's coming to support me a lot of the time I wanted to try and make sure that she wasn't going at a loss. So I tried to cover as much as I

could. Yeah, we did pretty okay this year, but still tough every time, I think, for two people. Yeah. Does she like set for you a lot when you're training and like abroad? To be honest, she doesn't set as much. I mean, she does set a little bit on spray walls and things like that. And she also helps sometimes in warm up for competitions. But most of the time, she's there like as a support. Like we talk about climbing a lot. She does like a lot of debriefs

with me and kind of like my mentality. And then also like, yeah, we're really close. So having her just around as we're traveling makes it a much more enjoyable experience for me. Any like favorite memory from the past season that comes to mind with your sister? I think Prague really stands out. Like making podium with both of my sisters being there was really cool because we were all like, we were kind of had a feeling that Prague could be the

one that it would happen at. And then when it did, it was like, just really exciting. It just, yeah, it was really nice to have that like all the work we all put in. Like it's a big team method. It finally come out and it be all together was really special. Okay, that's really sweet. And I think that's probably a good point to end on. I think that's all the questions I had as well as the discord questions. Do you have any like final thoughts that you want to get out there?

Not really. Yeah, it was fun to chat with you. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to like let people know where they can find you? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Oceana underscore climbing. And then I also have a YouTube channel, Oceana Mackenzie. Check me out there. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you for joining. Thank you for joining me today. And it was amazing to talk to you. Thank you. It was really fun. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber. If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.