Ep 11: Staša Gejo - A look into isolation

There was always rumors like that, like, oh, look at these crazy parents. They're trying to live their dreams through their daughter and they're forcing her because my dad was like, please stop climbing with them. Please stop. Rest, rest. Like he's someone very big who, you know, did big things and then I'm just hanging around. Welcome to the season two kickoff of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host Jinni and I'm super excited to introduce my guest for today.

Stasa Gejo. This is super special to me because she has been my favorite climber on the circuit. So I'm so happy to have gotten the chance to talk to her in season two. For those who aren't familiar Stasa is a boulder and lead climber, more of a boulderer from Serbia who has been competing in international cups since 2011 as a youth climber. In this episode, we'll learn about Serbian funding in the sport and OQS. We'll get a glimpse into what bouldering isolation is like.

Here are some tales from the commentary booth and hear her reflect on the 2023 season. Hope you enjoy this episode with Stasa. All right. Yeah, we can just get right into it then. How are you doing today? Yeah, pretty well. Doing a lot of trainings, going from one to the other session, visiting different gyms. So yeah, it's good. You just moved to a new location recently? Well, I mean, I've been in Munich for the last four years or four years and a few months, but I have checked in a flat here.

Oh, okay. Okay. So not too bad. Yeah. Well, it was just the holidays. New Year's is coming up. Do you have any New Year's plans? Actually, tomorrow morning I'm flying to Stockholm where my sister lives. So I'm going to spend New Year's Eve with my sister and her family. Okay. Exciting. Do you do like New Year's resolutions by any chance? I know. Never really. Well, anyways, they're kind of pointless, but I don't know. Maybe I did do them when I was a teenager, but totally not anymore. It's not.

If there's a resolution that can come at any point. So yeah, that's true. Yeah. I don't think I have any either. I was wondering if I should make some, because I ask everybody and then they asked me back and I'm like, oh, I don't have any. I didn't think of any. I was wondering if I should though. Do you have like year long goals that you think of? Well, my year, technically it's not like a calendar year. I see it more as the season year, like early related competition season.

So like my new year has already begun with the winter training and started like end of November. So I'm already in 2024. I think 2020 is basically some paper. So yeah, like after the season ends and when the new one begins, you kind of see what you want to get better at, which new skills do you want to learn? I don't know. I wish they go back to handstands a little bit. So maybe that's something I'd like to get a little bit better at besides all the climbing stuff.

But yeah, it's like you set yourself some goals. Obviously my main goal is to qualify for Olympics and then there's like some other goals on the way there. So yeah, so I look at it a bit differently, but yeah, new rules, revolutions. I don't know. My whole life is at this point in time revolving purely around climbing. So it's all basically related to that. And handstands, I guess. Yeah, that will help me get my shoulders a bit stronger. Also related to climbing their foot.

Yeah. No, actually, I recently watched a video that inspired me to want to do handstands, but I have never been able to do one. So I don't think that's going to pan out. Me neither. Oh, me neither. I've never been able to do a full one. No. Oh, come on. I mean, what I do is I just throw myself up against the wall and then I try to balance it. I feel like I'm doing everything wrong. Firstly, I'm so uncoordinated upside down, like I know where my legs are, where my head is.

And then that comes the balance as well. So yeah, there was a point in time where I was doing my bachelor's and where I did handstands and the break between study and a couple of hours maybe. And then I would just do a few handstands and then continue studying. And I came to a point where I could lift off the door or the wall for 10, 20 seconds, but I haven't really done it since, so now I'm back at it again. I feel like my shoulders need to be stronger.

I'm back at it again, I feel like my shoulders need a lot of stability. So that's one of the things to improve it, I guess. Yeah, maybe I should try it out. And then I've seen those videos where they do, I guess, like a cartwheel on the boulder. Oh, those show up this year. Oh, I really hope that never comes to the world. I mean, I can do cartwheels. Also, an interesting thing that I've realized is that my whole life, I've been doing cartwheels on one side only.

So right hand first, then left hand. Then I realized, oh, I don't think I've ever tried the other side. And then I tried it and it was horrible. It was like, you know, children trying to learn it for the first time and horribly wrong. So then I've practiced that. It's still a bit clumsy, but I can do it now on the other side too. It's just weird. It's like so unnatural. Yeah, definitely. I mean, pretty impressive, I think. I have never managed to either. So good for you. Good for you.

Do cartwheels first and then handstand. I think it's easier. Yeah, I think that's true. I, you know, my shoulders, I can't take it right now. Maybe later. You can only get that. All right, so we can get right into it.

First, do you want to just give a brief overview of your climbing career, I guess, and like how you started climbing, when you started competing, all that good stuff? I'd say I started competing when I was, how old was I? Like seven years old, perhaps. I usually take it like approximately the age of like the year 2004. Because this is the first time I went to an international competition. It was in Bulgaria in Velikotrnov. But I was, yeah, six or seven years old.

So it wasn't very successful nor serious, I'd say. But this is around the time where I pretty regularly did like these kids national comps and tried like, I competed as much as I could. Also, because my parents couldn't always get like my grandma, one or the other one to babysit when they took their club and the other members to competitions. So at a certain point where I could also technically climb or do something there, then they'd take me just with them.

So I was very, let's say an angry little person who was the youngest in the category and was angry because she couldn't win. Yeah, so I was basically super competitive from the very beginning, like, oh, I want to win. But you're like half the size of everyone else. I was like, I don't care. I want to win. What's the older, the older end of that range for the youngest category? It depends. Like it really depended on competition to competition. But sometimes it's like eight years old and younger.

That was usual. And then, I don't know, they probably didn't let kids that are younger than five years old compete, obviously, but I think there was one count where I was two years younger than the weather. But yeah, so that went on and I got better and better, started eventually winning, satisfying my well, competitive needs that having given bigger balls, I climbed a lot outdoors because we have a family house in the country. It's called the Alashnitsa.

It's close to the city of Nizh, where I was born. So yeah, I spent basically, I think, once or twice a week rock climbing. I think that really improved my technique because kind of rock forces you to find solutions technically. Most of the time when it's like slab or vertical. So I think that played a big role in my climbing development and developing my own style. And at the age of 12, I think it was 12, but it should be as long as my memory holds, maybe a rock.

But at the age of 12, I was either the youngest female or maybe the youngest ever to do an 8b route. So maybe my stats were wrong, but there was something like this. At the time, that was a big thing to do, like an 8b route, Red Point. As a 12 year old person was pretty big deal. Nowadays, kids much higher grades, they do nine A's at that age. It's a different world now. So I shifted from kids' comps to youth competitions, which are way more official. It's under the IFSC.

And yeah, I've won quite a lot of medals there. And I basically crowned my junior years with basically winning every competition within two years, except the last world championship where I got seven. But the year before in ARCO 2015, I won the world youth championships there in Bouldering and in combined. So well, yeah, that was the first time I fulfilled one of my really, really big goals to become world champion.

And about that time, I started shifting already towards the senior categories, making my first finals, which then led me to now having three world championship bronze medals. And yeah, World Cup medals, all of them brought so far. I was very close to a silver one this year, but I made too many attempts. Which one was that again? Why, Brixton, yeah. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I was just going to quickly take my stats out because I'm just a bit confused if I'm getting my numbers right.

I'm not really sure, but let's see. How often do you check those? Not that often, actually. Just when I need some together, okay, three world championship. Is it one? Two? No, two bronze medals. Very confusing world championship. Innsbruck third and then Moscow third. Yeah, okay, that's about it. Yeah, correct. There are two in the championship and then another three in the world. Yeah, I also won the European Championship in Munich in Bouldering in 2017.

And this was like the most, I think also the highlight of my career so far because it was a super final, which really, really rarely happens. And it was a funny cop because they couldn't find an organizer that year for the European Championship. So they had to organize it within a world. So the best idea they could come up with, the organizers that you see at the time, was to have the semifinals results define the European Championship.

But what happened was that Yana Ganderes and I had the exact same score in semifinals, so we shared the first place and there was no count back because it was two groups. So they were like, okay, we need to crown a champion somehow. How are we going to do it? Well, in this particular case, you have to go with a super final. And I've never been in an actual international level super final before. That happened only once before. So they gave us one of the men's semifinal bowlers.

I don't know if they changed it a bit, maybe slightly tweaked it, but in this format, every move counts. So no classic start. There's no like four points. They just told us, well, you can start however you like. And yeah, then every move counts. So one climber goes, one attempt. The other climbers behind the wall. Then the other day, then we switch. I go behind the wall, Yana comes out. And then if Yana climbs lower than me, I win. If Yana climbs higher than me, she wins.

But there was a massive jump, already like second move. So we both fell on it, like two rounds in. On the third round, I think, I managed to stick the dyno. And then I did two more moves and a plus. And then it was like, well, either Yana falls on the jump again and I win, or she does the jump and then we see how far she gets. But then she fell on the jump and technically then I won.

And before that, I thought when I heard that the system is counting every move, that Yana was already then way, way better at climbing and endurance. At that time, I didn't even continually lead as far as I remember. Not that much at all. So I thought, oh, she's going to get me. Immediately, she has more endurance than me. If this is like by the number of moves, she probably wins. But then yeah, then it was a jump. And that was the play advantage. It was a super intense competition.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've actually seen it. I'm assuming it's online somewhere that we could watch. It is online. I think there is like a short review of it, but also some slow-mo's. It's on YouTube. Okay. I'll find it. I'll link it and we can all watch and see the highlight of your career.

But going back to you growing up amongst climbing. Yeah, you come from a family of climbers. And I was wondering what it's like growing up in that environment because I think a lot of people who get into climbing just like recently got into climbing. And so they have no idea what it's like growing up in that kind of environment. And I was wondering if you kind of ever felt like you were forced into climbing or competing because I think your parents also did competitions.

And I think a lot of people who grow up being forced to do certain activities kind of grow to resent it. So yeah, it was a wonderful experience with that. Well, I'm still not resenting it, I think. So that's a good sign. So my mom competed a lot. She was doing all the national and Balkan championships and she was third, I think, or even the Balkan champion at the time. And so there was like this whole competition vibe and outdoors vibe in my family. My father is an alpinist.

He went to the Himalayas, to Andes, to... He was like a mountain guide all over the world. And he also basically founded this climbing club in our town and bolted some roots in this climbing area where I lived in. So yeah, it was a whole basically climbing environment. I was playing with the gear when I was a kid, when I was really, really like a toddler. And then I saw everyone basically as a child, you copy what everyone else is doing. Everyone's climbing. I want to climb.

And then I convinced them to put a top rope for me, or rather convinced them to just tie me up. What did I know what the top rope was back then? And then if it were too hard for me, then I would cry because, oh, I cannot climb or I'm scared of the height or the classic toddler tantrums. But yeah, as I was getting more and more into it, I had phases where I didn't want to climb at all. I would just play around and not be bothered.

And there were periods where I really wanted to reach the top as many times as I could. But as how it developed to me getting into actual competition climbing was more that we started traveling. And we went to Slovenia, often to Bulgaria, also to Austria, where I had a chance to compete with kids my age. And I was making really, really good progress, like year by year, season by season. We went on training camps all over Europe, or Balkans also.

And I was improving and then I slowly started getting to the podium and getting really psyched to train. And so we saw that, I mean, rather my parents saw that I have quite a potential. So they said it would be a pity to waste it. So we basically put everything into designing and traveling and going to competitions and basically for them also to develop in their coaching, as well as me developing in my climbing and training as well. If I was forced to climb, yeah, on occasions, probably, sure.

But it's just because I was a child with no discipline, no sense of discipline and planning. What does a 10 year old know or a 12 year old know? How often they need to train and what they need to do. So these things are normal. It wasn't tortured really far away from that. It was just like, well, yeah, today we're going to go outdoor climbing. But no, I don't want to. Well we're going. So pack yourself and go. This is how I learned the discipline.

And because there were no other coaches, well, my mom and dad had to do it to teach me how this training process works. And yeah, if your parents are your coaches, there is this continuum and not a clear line between coaches and parents. It intertwines a lot. So this part, the private part gets a little bit more difficult to handle at times. But when there is no one else to show you that, what are you going to do?

This is what you have and this is the activity you've chosen you like and you enjoy doing. So yeah, sure, sometimes it's going to be hard, but it's not the end of the world. I wasn't living my parents' expectations or whatever. There was always rumors like that, like, oh, look at these crazy parents. They're trying to live their dreams through their daughter and they're forcing her. Like really, I hated when people made those comments because it's like the easiest thing to say. Poor thing.

I mean, come on. Okay, debunking that myth right here. Yeah. I mean, sometimes like, yeah, sure, on a few occasions you're going to make your child cry or that child is not going to want to go to training. But also nowadays, sometimes I don't want to go training. I'm like, oh, everything hurts. I just want to stay at home. But then I have to kick myself and then go. And I still do that to myself. You know, someone's got to do it.

And if you want to be successful and if you want to improve, that's sometimes, yeah, this comfort that you have to deal with, which I think is absolutely natural and normal. So yeah. I think by climbing up upbringing and well, general upbringing was great. And I think my parents did a really great job in teaching me what matters, how to be disciplined, how to work smartly and too hard, not over training. I think I learned everything. Right. Good to know.

Good to know that you weren't forced into anything you didn't want to do. Yeah, I think that makes sense because even if your parents force you to do something, you also personally have to enjoy it and put in the work to actually get good enough at it. There were things I was forced to do that I didn't like doing and I still never ended up getting good at it because I didn't like it. So yeah, that's a pity.

It's sad to see when someone's forced into something, you know, and you can see that it's not so tortured. But these things happen and sometimes for parents, it's also hard to know which is the sport for their child. You know, their parents that send their child from one sport to the other, they try five different sports within a year and then they end up not liking anything. But you have to try to guide them somehow and then maybe you make a mistake and that's not it.

But in my case, of course, I liked a lot of other sports. I wanted to play football and I did play it in school a lot, but it didn't go with climbing. It was a priority then we decided once we started really sacrificing a lot and giving everything in for the competitions. And then suddenly I start getting really good in football and people want to get me in their clubs and whatever to play, I don't know what leagues, teenager leagues. And then my dad just, nope, no football.

She needs to go to the competitions. She'll get injured. They'll break her legs. I'm not allowing it. So yeah, the school league was the maximum I got to in football. Yeah, makes sense. And I think people just kind of, people want to like make up that story because it makes it, it makes things more interesting. You know, it makes it a bit more like, oh, there's like a tough upbringing there. It would be interesting. Yeah, no, no.

It's the right way to go. Let's go into your World Cup experience. Another thing that viewers don't know a lot about, people always want to know what's going on behind the scenes in isolation and just what's going on in your mind as you're competing. And I think Matt Groom also really wants to know what goes on behind the scenes in isolation. So this is something he wanted me to discuss, I think. So what is it like in isolation? What do you do? What do other athletes do?

In isolation you spend, well, between two hours and then I guess the upper limit doesn't exist but technically some people stay in for about four hours sometimes or longer if they're more competitors. But it all comes down to the ranking and the starting list. So if your ranking is good in ball drink, you start within the first. So and the people without the ranking are then randomly sorted in the bottom half.

And then yeah, someone has to start last and therefore we have this isolation, which some people are starting to be more and more against it. And there were some changes trying to be made to include Flash also into ball drink like it's in lead where we don't have ISO in lead. We watch each other, we have the demonstrations and then the start list is randomized. But I'm also amongst those old school people who really like the isolation and I don't want to give it up.

And I mean, there are quite a few people who still share this old school sort of opinion, but there have been more and more suggestions to try to switch to the Flash format and it's already been done on the European cups and the youth cups. But it brings a lot of other organizational problems and also excludes this problem solving this which is quite crucial in ball drink. It's like in lead it is not as pronounced as it is in ball drink. Sometimes that's the main trick to solve a ball drink.

So although yeah, it is just a qualifying round, but anyways, let me not bother you with this topic. But yeah, isolation is basically a space where you have no information about the outside world. So you have no idea who did what, what are the results, what are the boulders? You know nothing. And there you can warm up. There is a warm up wall.

Since Corona there are also like these pull up bars or like just bars where we can hang our hang boards to warm up if there's no already provided finger boards. So what happens is for example, my routine is to start stretching, enjoying mobility exercises two hours before the start or like two hours, 10 minutes perhaps. So I do that for around 30 to 40 minutes.

In between I also start warming up my fingers on the finger board, but this mostly consists of yoga elements with classic warm up exercises, some elastic band exercises as well. And then after those 30 to 40 minutes, I start going onto the wall with slow traversing, big holds, slow start basically. And then starting with defining some boulders until you, like basically just as if it were a training session where you warm up and you start gradually from easy to harder pulls.

And in these like remaining hour and a half, I take usually two rests of like 10 to 15 minutes in between so that I don't get too tired. And then the rest is just saving your skin and trying to do moves and boulders that include as many different elements that could appear in the competition as possible.

So you would try toggle catch, paddle, dinos, high step, balancing, like anything that you can try that you think is most likely to be on the combat that gives you like a general wide range to warm up. So this is what we do. Sometimes we join like in small groups of different people that do stuff together from different nations as well, or it's teams separately. Thankfully in climbing people are still open to like join in or to let you join them.

So for example, if let's say a Korean hulk coach has a really cool boulder that I want to try and I don't know all the details and I can ask them, hey, can you please tell me how this boulder went or can I join you in on this boulder? Can you explain it to me? And like almost all the time people are very happy to welcome you in their boulder and be like, yeah, sure. Here's the start. You go there and then there.

We're trying to do this and this and if there's like a liminates or like a specific move you want to do and they find that too. So this is nice like boulder. Boulders it looks also like a little session. But I also heard that it's more pronounced in the men's warmup that they give each other such hard boulders that they already start the competition in the ISO. And apparently this happens way more often with men and that the coaches try to like pull them back.

And this is also like an old trick of maybe more experienced climbers when the new young guns come in like 16, 17 year olds, like the strong ones that they want to show off and they just give them like something really hard all the time. And like to basically tire them out or to make them, yeah, they make them feel good but then they get a bit tired. And the strategy. Yeah, the more experienced ones don't care so much about the warmup really or how they perform on the warmup.

There's not much ego involved in that. Oh yeah and females, I think this was done to me once because my dad was like, please stop climbing with them. Please stop, rest, rest. He's like, no, I have to do this another boulder and this boulder and I need to do this jump. And all that old crew was like, hey Stasja, come over, let us show you another one. And of course my performance on the competition itself was horrible. Even though I was great in the warmup.

Have you ever paid it forward and done that to someone? No. Not that you're willing to admit. No, no. No, I haven't done that. But yeah, and then when it's about 15 to, it's like 10 to 15 minutes before your start, they usually take you off the isolation zone and you go to the transit zone behind the boulder. So basically around 20 minutes before your start, you should do your last toilet run, pack your snacks, sort what you need immediately with you.

Frying shoes, another pair of shoes, liquid chalk, fan, snacks, stuff like this, water, other liquids. And then I try to sort things out and you get some boxes where you can sort the bags and the shoes and everything. So yeah, you give yourself also a little rest, it was like 20 minutes before the start. And then it goes. Then behind the wall, yeah, it's two groups in the qualies and semi-finals, it's just one group.

And you have the chairs, it's basically just a chair, maybe a water dispenser and your

box with your stuff. And all the people are basically coming in and returning to the same place. So you can see who came back earlier, who's in which boulder, you can try to figure out, calculate or see which chair they're on or something like this. So this is the place where you start getting some information in, but it's just basically from behavior. It's either the crowd cheering and then the moderator will probably say the name of the person who's climbing something.

And then you can figure out, yeah, okay, this boulder is to be done quickly, this one's hard. You can see the pattern of what's going on when you arrive behind the wall, but that's it. We're not allowed any electronic devices, nothing that can have an internet or Bluetooth connection. So nothing with a wireless connection. So smartwatches, headphones have to be wired. You need to have this mp3 player without any connections possible.

Yeah, everyone leaves all the electronic devices in like a bag at the entrance of the ISO and then the coaches or whoever picks it up at the exit, you will exit the isolation conditions. Yeah. And so do you prefer to listen to the crowd noise from ISO or are you one of those people who wants to just zone out and not know what's going on? Depends. Mostly, mostly it's pretty upsetting, I think. I don't like it. So I like to pump up my volume as much so that I don't hear the moderator.

Like I can probably hear the crowd, but I don't want to hear the moderator and which name. Sometimes it's easier for me not to know literally anything where I just close my eyes and try not to see who came back when so that I go without any expectations, without any pressure, just blank, just go in and climb. Sometimes I like to know what's going on so that I can be better prepared. It depends what kind of mood I'm in that day.

If I'm more nervous, I'd like to know less, but if I'm really hyped up and if that crowd makes me even more motivated, then I'll probably just listen to each other.

Okay. And how do you feel between qualies versus semis versus finals? I guess like physically and emotionally. That's a very good question because there is a massive difference between the rounds. So in qualies, in qualies I go a bit more chilled in because I almost always make semifinals. So I trust my ability. It's been only a few occasions that I haven't made semis. So I go a little bit more tactical.

If I see it's going too well, I try to do a couple of attempts more so that I'm not really first, but that my rank is a little bit lower so I don't have to start last. I hate starting last. So if I see that I'm doing a little bit too well, then I just try to add on more attempts. My chances of not winning the round are better. It's super satisfying when you win a round.

Don't get me wrong, but then you regret it the next day when the holes are much, much dirtier, but sometimes you can't control it. If you've played too much with this tactics game, you can be out very easily. So qualies is a little bit more chilled because the boulders are not so brutal usually. And then semifinals, it's a fight to death. I think semifinals are usually the hardest, physically the hardest round. Yeah. Because this is where you have to sort the field from 20 to six in bowling.

And it's a very tough thing to do. And because finals, you'd think finals might be the hardest, but for finals people usually don't have much skin left and everyone's tired. So technically, yeah, it depends of course, come to come. But finals is more a show off. They want more boulders for TV. They need at least two ballers top, at least one top by everyone or like almost everyone. So now this is like TV tactics, which I don't like. Nobody likes it, but then it makes the finals shorter.

The audience likes it. Yeah, the audience likes it and it makes it more based on attempts than actual number of tops, usually, like not depends. But semifinals is the most stressful and the toughest. Because it doesn't let you breathe really. It's four boulders, really tough, really tough boulders with yeah, two parts in each boulder. It's like if you do the first part and you get the zone, the top is usually not granted. Like you can still mess it up.

So in qualies, you try to save your skin so you have perfect skin for semis. And then in semis, you try to give your best so you can make the final because this is the hardest part basically. And then in finals, there's so many different factors that can play along. Like it's your style, everyone's a bit more tired. This is also like this long-term endurance thing or like power endurance, how long can you push. So the three rounds are completely different from each other.

Also, I think the finals are pretty boring when it comes to the waiting time because it's no rotations. It's four minutes and then you wait until you're next round. And then there's also commercial breaks. So yeah, you wait for 20 minutes plus extra two to 30 minutes between climbers and commercial breaks and stuff. Of course, if everyone flashes, it goes faster, but I always found it like really boring and like, ah, I need to wait.

And every thought that you have just stands in your head for so long. And semifinals and qualifiers is just pump, pump, pump, pump, five minutes in, five out. The only thing you need to focus on is to recover in the five minutes that you have between the both. And finals gives you a lot more time to think, which I really don't like. Oh, I get that. Yeah, like the dark thoughts seep in. You just go in circles.

Which requires then a different kind of like mental strength. Sometimes I've had finals where I've held my concentration perfectly well. And usually at these comps I did really well also in finals. But as soon as it goes dark, it's like never a good finals for me. But yeah, also this amount of rounds and the tiredness makes you more susceptible to these negative thoughts. But I think I've learned a lot of tactics and they work I think better and better when I have finals.

But sometimes sometimes you just don't have the energy for it. But yeah, that's part of the game. But it's also something that I'd like to work on a little bit more as well. To be like, to stay tough until the end. In Laval, this is what I did on the last comp. I feel like I managed to keep it cool even though I was really nervous. Maybe the most nervous ever. But I could keep it cool and stay on track until the end. Yeah, what kind of mental tactics do you use to stay focused?

It also has a lot to do with music. With what kind of music? Dancing also or just some kind of jumping. Like staying lightly physically active and kind of pumped up and reminding myself of my qualities, of my being confident, staying confident. Deep breaths usually help me a lot to calm down and not be too pumped but also not too nervous. But usually it is just turning inwards, clearing the head and just breathe. I would love to see climbers playlists for staying focused in ISO.

You should share that. That would be so interesting. It's all like in material MP3 files that we download somehow. Well if you ever have time create a Spotify playlist, share it out. I'm sure people will be very interested to see.

And so when it comes to viewers watching semis and finals, people always talk about setting and height a lot. And you are one of the taller competitors which I love because I'm technically a little bit taller and I feel like everyone I know is super short so it just doesn't work for me. How often does your height come into play for you when it comes to route setting? There was a time I think two years ago where it was in my head all the time where I saw myself being too tall in every boulder.

But in the last two years since it's become a problem, I've found ways to work it out. And I've trained a lot the weakness and I need to find a different body position or I need to make my body work a little bit differently than the others do. It's mostly difficult if it's really feet in your head, stuff like this.

Usually in slabs they try to make you put your foot next to your face which for me then creates a massive lever and then it's hard to get out of certain positions and to try to stay in balance or the path that you need to take is way longer. So it's details but it's something that can be worked on but the problem with it is that it takes so much longer and then sometimes the adaptability is a bit more difficult. But now yeah, it's working better and better I must say.

The most disappointing thing is when I see that it's harder for me because I'm taller and I try to accept it as it is and then I work through it and I just brainstorm and see and trial and error, see what works. And then someone comes, oh yeah but it's so much harder for you, you're so much taller. And then when someone really confirms it in my face, come on, I'm trying to forget about it. Don't give me that attitude. I know, right?

So when you hear it that often, it gets in your head but I haven't had this experience as much in the last couple of months or like the second part of the season. So it's better and I think also the root setters are probably a bit more aware of it since it was talked about a little bit more and I've raised this issue a couple of times. So when testing, all sorts of heights are trying to do a boulder and then they see if it's possible or not.

But it's always going to be some things will be easier for taller and harder for shorter and vice versa. It's inevitable but now the idea is to make it really possible and as fair as possible for everyone, for every body type. I think it's quite okay. Yeah, do you think there's one that's like being taller or shorter that's more of an advantage or disadvantage?

Because a lot of comments, it's very easy to tell when being too short is difficult because they just like can't reach it or it's like they have to jump a lot further. And so that's what all the comments kind of start to get geared towards. And yeah, is there more of a disadvantage being shorter? Nowadays, I don't think so anymore. Also being jumpy is something you can train and while making yourself smaller is something that you can train a little bit.

I would say it's impossible but it's way more difficult because there's often a lot of stress in the back, in the lower back when you're basically trying to deadlift all the time, I think. But also with shoulders sometimes. But yeah, that it requires you to be way more mobile and way stronger in your end points of the range of motion. But maybe it's a personal thing. I felt like training jumping was way easier for me than training mobility.

So naturally, short climbers need to have this leg power that they can jump off the ground and basically be able to do dinos. So this is the show of leg training that climbers like to avoid. So I feel like maybe it's a cultural, climbing cultural excuse to not train legs and then the relative was short but we can't reach. But yeah, there are certainly a lot of moves where they're way easier for me where I have to jump minimally to reach them, where someone needs to do a full power output.

But as I said, there was a time I think two years ago or even last year where shorter climbers had a massive advantage. And also bouldering used to be a thing for taller people. So if you were short, you had nothing to do in bouldering, the lead was your discipline. And this was a thing back, yeah, 2012 till 2000, maybe 18. So everyone was just really tall and they were always bouldering, big moves, jumps. Let's just see as far as we can go.

But in female category, the last two to three years, they were a lot of good but very, very short climbers. Like the best climbers are just really short now. Everyone's around one meter 60. And it's pretty insane to me. I just can't believe this is happening, but it's like a massive shift happened. And now everyone's suddenly much shorter, like on average. So of course then the setting kind of adapted, putting us taller people on a little bit of a downside.

But I think this season it was way more balanced out because people got aware of it. So I think now it's quite okay. Interesting. So you could feel the difference as the years passed. Yeah, there were years. Maybe I improved. I don't know, but there were less situations where I couldn't move because something was too close.

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on. So back to the show. This is kind of a detour, but I just wanted to ask about your commentating of World Cups as well. While we're on the topic of World Cups. I only recently learned that co-commentators get paid now and you've done it quite a bit. I mean, I guess you probably also did it before you would get paid to do it. So what kind of drew you to commentating and do you have interest in doing it more in the future?

I feel like I've done it way more often before it was paid than now when it's paid. So no, I didn't make a fortune out of it. Yeah, co-commentators are paid 100 euros per round. And I think it was a strategy probably to encourage people and maybe as a possible career option like further on. For me, I got brought into it by Charlie Bosco back in the day. I think the first time I co-commented it was 2016 maybe. I can't remember if it was ARCA, probably ARCA or Paris, the World Champs.

One of those two. And yeah, I hit it off pretty well with Charlie and he really liked inviting me also to the commentary box and I enjoyed it a lot. And then when Matt took over, we also caught an amazing vibe together in the commentary box really. It just worked pretty well from the start and as I already had some experience before.

But nowadays, if I don't make finals, sometimes I feel a bit too tired to do the commentating and I feel like I'd rather watch than commentate, whereas before it was vice versa. And I did, I think, more lead commentaries than boulder. As in lead, it's a little bit less dynamic, so I prefer to talk to someone while I watch it. Whereas in bouldering, it's a little bit more intense and also I usually am pretty tired if I don't like, or even if I'm in the finals, I'm tired.

It's a pretty intense competition. So either I watch it there on the spot or sometimes I stay in my hotel room and watch the stream because I don't feel likely enough to go and watch it in person or I don't want to mix with people. It depends. But yeah, commentary is fun.

It was interesting to start doing it when Eurosport took over because you get like, I've probably met also explained, you get like different clues and you can hear when there is like this cut time when you have to stop talking and stuff. I was a little bit afraid prior to my first Eurosport commentary, but then I got into it quite well. So I think it was pretty good after that when I figured out how it works.

But yeah, I don't know. It could be a potential thing to do after the climbing career. I don't know if that position will change because in a way I feel like maybe having athletes co-commentate is not the best thing because I feel like you'd want to have a professional do it so that there are two professional commentators and not athletes because yeah, sometimes you're going to have good co-commentary, sometimes not.

And to have it sort of balanced, I feel like it's better to have a professional one. I know a lot of athletes who share that opinion. So maybe it will become a thing where former athletes will become, like will form a base for which they will be then hired to do the commentary because they have nothing to do with the competition then personally. It's just that job. And if you take athletes, there's always the emotions of everything that's connected to the performance and so on.

So it's a little bit different and probably more subjective when you have athletes. But people seem to like that. I like that input and to explain what's happening because probably people don't know much what's happening behind the scenes, behind the wall and so on. So I think it could be a potential career spot for former athletes or for someone who's deciding to do just that and that it will move on from having athletes do it. So that could be an option for far future for me, I think.

I mean, sure, I'll probably, yeah. I mean, it's an option. There's a lot of options. But yeah, as I said, I really like working with Matt. So that's also, it's fun. Yeah. I think a lot of people would hope that you would go back to commentating. I think you're a lot of people's favorite co-commentator. So people want to see it. Are there any embarrassing moments that you can think of when it comes to commentary for you? Oh yeah, of course.

Often there were some phrases and Matt didn't even want to tell me what I said, but apparently I'd say something that could give hints towards other sexual meaning and that I would totally not notice it and then would just go on live. I think one's the worst was, the one I remember was when I was explaining why sometimes people choose to do heel hooks and some choose to do toe hooks. And they said, some people are heel hookers and the others are toe hookers.

Perfect. And I realized that as soon as I said it, I was like, oh, that was a dick driver. And I don't know what else happened today. Something happened in the cold time. I can't remember what it was, but we both got so confused and then there was the cue time and this like silent time. And I don't know, there was like, we said it was like a technical incident, but something happened where I said something that Matt started to stop me, prevent me from saying something.

I don't remember what it was. But then we just kind of tried to get the sentence completed. And then the cue time came in and we were both like, what is going on? Yeah, stuff like that, but not that much. Okay. No, that's good. I don't remember hearing that. Do you know which comp that might have been with the hooker talk? Maybe it was Chamonix last year. I can't remember. It was some lead comp. If I have time, I'll dig through and try to find out.

I think I did last year, I did Coper and Chamonix. So one of those, I think maybe it was Coper last year. It's hard to remember. Yeah, that's embarrassing. Then apparently when I said, when I told Matt, like, did you hear what I said? What a stupid thing to do. Oh, you said something way worse. Like, what did I say? I'm not going to tell. You didn't look back and try to find what it was? No, no, I don't look back.

I don't think I've ever listened to any commentary in my mind, except if I wanted to see a certain part of the video, but yeah. Okay. I'll try to find it. If I can find it, I'll link it and we can all take a listen.

Everyone will relive it. Everyone will see what I said. So let's move on to stuff about funding and you being a one person team. So there is no Serbian team, I guess. You are kind of the entire team. So how does that kind of work? Well, there is a team. It exists. It is me and there are other members of the team, but they do not go to competitions that often. They visit one or two per year, perhaps. The ones that are close by. International or?

Yes, yes, international. Either European Cups or World Cup in the nearby vicinity of the city where the people live in. But usually most of the time it is just me and my parents. So my dad is the head coach and my mom is the physio. So we've done this our whole life basically. So we just keep doing it. So the funding comes through a personal program by the Olympic Committee of Serbia and also the Ministry of Sports as an elite athlete.

These two organizations have basically supported a good part of my career and they made possible to travel abroad and to travel to other continents. Because the US and East Asia were usually the furthest ones to get to and the most expensive ones. So there's also good support from the federation, from the National Climbing Federation as well. But yeah, their budget is not as big as the other two I've mentioned before. So they jump in when there's a need for it.

But it's good to leave the rest of the budget for other kids who are competing and then potentially other seniors that want to take part in that competition and then for other things that the federation needs to do. But yeah, without the Olympic Committee and the Ministry of Sport, I probably wouldn't be able to travel far and that often. But yeah, this is what keeps me going. And of course, this is also related to results. So if you have good results, you get awarded for the next year.

So I need to perform. If I don't perform or it's less than a certain position, then it's less money and so on. So there's always some kind of pressure, but also not that much because the people that work with me from these organizations are very, very kind, very supportive. And it's really nice to have such contact with these people and to feel supported, to feel like belonging. Because yeah, as you said, there is no team. There is a team, but it's not big. And I'm the only competitor.

So I don't have this kind of company usually from the same nation, from the same team. So it's nice to have this kind of support and the sense of belonging to an organization, to a team, to a bigger team in the sense like the Olympic team certainly, to have that behind me, to support me, to lift me up when it's good times and when it's bad times, it's a lovely group of people and I'm happy to have that in my life. Oh, okay. So that's like other, just like the Olympic team of Serbia in general.

Yeah. So it's like the National Olympic Committee that has funding projects for teams and individuals who are like prospects for Olympic games, then they're in Olympic sports and they then fund like the great year-end programs and so on. And there are people who then follow your results, follow you, contact you often, support you and so on.

And it's like when I say the Olympic team of Serbia, I mean also all the athletes who compete in the Olympic disciplines, former Olympians, hopefully future Olympians and so on. And it creates this kind of, this sense of unity with the others as well.

Sometimes we have like some stuff to do together or like photo shoots or certain activities or we visit the sports fair and then there's this committee stand and then a lot of people from this team come that are involved in any kind of like program with the Olympic committee. And yeah, it's a very, very nice thing to do. And this is also one of my biggest reasons why I want to go to the Olympic Games because I want to be like also in person, in competition, I want to be a part of that team.

I want to be there with my whole nation. Like with all the athletes who compete at the Olympics, I just want to be with them and experience that kind of event. That really, really motivates me. I don't think anyone has any confusion why people would be motivated to be in the Olympics. That'd be a dream. Yeah, there are different things about Olympics that motivate people. Like someone just wants to be the Olympic winner, you know, or you just want to be a part of the experience.

But this like nation connected reason is really, I think, one of the few biggest things about

it that I like. Yeah. And so I guess specifically, I'm not sure what the climbing scene is like in Serbia. I mean, you don't currently live there. So I'm assuming maybe the gym scene there is not as built out or there's just like more access to like coaches and centers in Germany. What resources do you feel like you have access to and what do you wish you had access to? Yeah, Serbia sadly is still not following the trends as would be expected in 2020-3 now still.

It has massively developed, thankfully, and there are a lot of people who climb and a lot of people climb outdoors too. I feel like this elite scene is more on the side of the rock climbing, whereas the beginner and commercial climbing is of course more popular. In their bouldering gyms, there have been quite a few openings, especially in Belgrade and also in Ijsh, we have a new wall since a year or more than a year, which is great.

And I find they have like a really, really good place to train when I go home. And I'm really, really happy to have that. Because when I was a kid, it was not even close to the conditions that now exist in my hometown. But yeah, there is not enough coaches, not enough room setters, even though there is obviously work being done in this area. We bring foreign specialists and they hold seminars in Serbia to teach people.

I still believe that more work should be done, but it's also like we don't have enough people in it that have been there for a long time to be able to gain this knowledge and experience. So it's all fairly new, so to say. But yeah, I lived in Slovenia from 2014 until 2019. And I was there for schooling and also training. And then I enrolled in the master's program in 2019 in September, October, and in Munich. So I'm still here.

And yeah, here I have like a little base in Munich and a lot of neighboring cities that have amazing gyms and really good root setting that I can access. So it's maybe currently for me in this part of Europe, yeah, for me the perfect spot to be in. And of course it will require some traveling to Austria further down south, back to Slovenia also and to France for some training camps. But now I feel like I'm very, very central.

You know, I have a lot of opportunities in the nearest cities around me. And so back to the financial portion. I think climbing has always been a very collaborative sport. People are always reading routes together, helping each other out. And ISO, like you had mentioned, even though it's like a competition. And now that there's more like money and fame tied to it with the Olympics, are you like concerned that's something that's going to change or go away?

I'm afraid it will, but maybe not that fast. I think it's kind of an advantage to have both old school people in climbing and the new school people in climbing to keep the balance kind of going so that the sport doesn't go fully commercial and forget its roots, so to say, the culture and so on. It might happen sooner or later, but so far it's been quite all right. It hasn't had too much of bad influence, but also there hasn't really been, I think, enough financial inflow to the athletes.

I feel like we all need a bit better sponsoring contracts than the companies can afford. This is the second vicious circle. The outdoor companies don't have enough money because they're outdoor companies and they can't give a lot of their budget for a lot of people. And then the athletes don't earn enough from the sponsors because it's still considered to be an urban slash outdoor sport, which not. Like competition climbing, sorry, has nothing to do with being urban or outdoor.

Yeah, but sadly it all still runs in a kind of a different world, so there are not that many sponsorships that come outside of climbing. There are some, but a bit more nowadays, but still not as much as it should be for an Olympic sport. But yeah, so far when it comes to interpersonal relationships and contacts, I think it's still quite all right and quite as it was.

Maybe there are some new kids coming in who are new to the world and see it from different perspective and have come in the time and place where it has become way more commercial. And this is the world they know. So like the difference sometimes is noticeable, like with ambitions or maybe, yeah, how you show yourself to the world, but yeah, not such drastic differences really yet. Hopefully it'll still be a nice environment to be in.

Yeah, I hope so too. Yeah, okay. So looking back on the 2023 season, I think you mentioned it was not the best season for you. Now that you've had a little bit of time to reflect on it, how are you feeling about it? Still bad? Low lights, highlights? Yeah, I think when we talked last time, it was still quite fresh from the end of the season. But now when I look back, really I just can see how much progress I've made.

It was a really chaotic season because it was so many competitions on different parts of the world in such a short period of time that people needed to skip comps, you needed to be tactical about it, and it was pretty hard to endure it all. But in the end, yeah, I mean, I had pretty great results. I had a bronze in Brixen and the silver on the European Qualifier, which was probably the performance of the year for me.

I was so flowy and really strong both mentally and physically, so I felt that I really peaked at the end, so to say. Yeah, there were a lot of unfortunate moments, of course, but it was a process. The last competition of the year was the most important anyway, so everything before that was kind of the path towards it. Even though I missed out on the Olympic ticket for just one spot, well, again now for the second time, I don't think it was bad.

I think it was a pretty great experience for me, a good introduction to know what's the format going to look like at DOQS in terms of the amount of days, the amount of rounds, rests, and so on. Pretty exhausting though, but now I know what it is, so it doesn't come as a surprise at DOQS. But yeah, all in all, it was all right. It was all right. I think it was good. There was a lot of positives, a lot of learning how to deal with myself, approaching problems, people.

I've realized actually, I thought that this new generation of people are just really closed in their own bubble and nobody wants to communicate and nobody reaches out, nobody approaches. I thought, well, nobody approaches me like, what's up with all these people? The people that I know, of course, I have a normal relationship with.

But every time that there's something new and they seem to communicate within their own small circles, I thought, yeah, I don't know, everyone's getting too proud or so and so on, but then I've heard that I'm probably not the most approachable person either.

And then when I started approaching people myself as a already much experienced, I won't say old, but experienced in the comp scene, when I started approaching the kids and talking to them, being the first one to break, then I would figure out how many of them are just really nice and kind people. And this spread of kindness was something that really motivated me on a few comps.

Just being there and seeing how nice people are was really cool because I've judged it otherwise before as I didn't have the full picture. And when you don't talk to someone, you don't know who they are and what they do. You just see them compete and how they behave. So that was very inspiring to have this sense of a community again. That's just pretty nice. That's one of the biggest takeouts of this year as well. Well, yeah, sadly, I have to do the work and the approaching, but it's worth it.

No, I think that makes sense. I mean, they're younger. They probably have watched you climb and are probably fans as well. And when you're a fan of someone, it's very, very, very, very, very scary to approach someone

and try to talk to. Yeah, I've heard that some people were scared of me also. I think Brooke said that. I think Brooke was really terrified the first time I saw her or something like that. I think she went through a mom and I know her mom since I was a kid. And well, Brooke was I think still around there, but we didn't know each other and she was really a toddler back then. And I've approached Robin in ARCO, I think 2008 maybe. It was really a long time ago.

And my parents used to have these VHS videos of her training, like yeah, training movies of Robin, Robert True, Everest filled Robert True. And they were really big fans. And they were like, oh, let's get to know each other. Let's greet her. And then we met and it was really lovely. I mean, I didn't watch these videos. I was really tiny. So I know, but apparently my parents, she's a big memory. So I said, okay, let me meet someone like that. She was really lovely.

And she remembered me from then and then we always greet each other in every competition and she watched me grow up basically. And then Brooke came into World Cups. She told mom Stasha is really scary. She just started laughing because Robin doesn't know me being scary. And she's like, oh Brooke, it's fine. She's actually really nice. That's funny. It's good to know that other competitors also get really scared. It's just, it's scary talking to people. Yeah it is.

Is there anyone that you're scared to talk to? I don't know. Maybe, I don't know if it's really fear. I don't know if I'm scared, but it's definitely not on the same level. Like Adam Andra perhaps. He doesn't visit competitions that often. So I don't get to interact with him almost at all. I don't know if we've spoken a few words even a few times, but it always feels like he's someone very big who did big things and then I'm just hanging around. That's a little bit how it feels.

But everyone else I really, I know for a long time now. So it's not a big deal anymore, but Andra is not around that often. So I think most of it. And this is just such a big name, you know, that yeah, when you're not used to someone like that. It's funny because also maybe people would feel like this with Yanya as well, but with Yanya it's like completely the opposite because I've trained with her when we were teenagers. So I know her for a long time since she was 14 basically.

So we're really good friends and yeah, that's quite the opposite side of it. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I hope you can meet him one day. Have a nice chat. Maybe.

We'll see. So yeah, back to the 2023 season, you were also juggling university and getting your master's degree along with the season. So how did you manage that? I had to give up on some free time activities firstly. Like I play viola and I played in some amateur orchestra here in Munich. And I realized that I need to finish uni this summer and that I don't have enough time. So I had to give up playing viola in the orchestra and maybe reduce the social activity.

But yeah, I spent a lot of time on my computer while traveling, just working for the thesis. I started beginning of January. And I can recall working a lot while being on some tour somewhere in the competitions. And I had the thesis handing on the day of the Chamonix qualifications. So it was tiring. I found it very hard to keep the concentration up with the volume of climbing. It's like when I'm done with the training, I'm so low on energy that I can't focus.

So this was a little bit tricky to handle, but I managed to find some kind of a rhythm how and when to do it. I was more productive if I worked in the morning and then went to training and vice versa. Or I had to wait till this initial tiredness fades away and then in the evening I could be more productive. But it went well and I finished. I graduated, so now I'm not a student anymore. Thanks. For a few months now. And I still feel like I don't have time to do everything that I want to do.

It's always like that. It doesn't matter how many things I have to do, I never have enough time. Maybe you should just do everything anyway and it'll still just feel like you don't have enough time, but you're doing more. Yeah, I think that's more of a solution. But not doing more in the sense doing more stressful things, doing more things that I like. So I like programming, I like researching, I like writing.

And now when I don't do that, I probably do more other activities that take my time, but I don't have the benefit of it. I don't know, binge watching probably. And maybe also trying to pack in to meet all the people in one day if I can and then I stress out when I get late to every consecutive meeting. Or now I just pop up a million things in my schedule and then I stress out to finish them all on time and not to be able to catch this and that and that.

And I somehow managed to schedule a lot of traveling as well. So everything that I couldn't do during the season, now I'm visiting those places and people. So yeah, I feel like I spent half a month maybe in my flat and the other half somewhere else.

A lot of traveling at the moment. What are you binge watching? Oh, now I'm sitting movies in Pirates of the Caribbean. So I have two more. And then Big Bang Theory also. Interesting choices. Yes. I always thought Big Bang Theory was annoying, but now that I've rewatched it, I haven't watched everything before, but now I just started from a season and I just go on in the eternity. Now I find it pretty funny.

Yeah, people started memeing on that show a lot because they would take out the laugh track and then it would be not funny at all. But yeah, it'll ruin it for you, so don't watch those. I don't know. I'll try it because I still think some things are pretty funny. But it's a good thing. I've never noticed that, how it would be without the laughing, without the audience. It might ruin it. So maybe you don't do it. And then you have to watch the spin-off show as well. Young Sheldon?

Wait, I forget what it's called. There's a spin-off show. Oh, you watched it. So I watched The Big Bang Theory a while ago and it was still on TV airing back in the day, but only when I'd catch it. And I think also why I didn't find it so funny is because I watched it with Serbian subtitles back in the day. So maybe the translations were odd and then I usually focus more on the text than on what I hear. I'm more like visual person, like my audio understanding is behind my visual comprehension.

So maybe this is why it wasn't so funny. And then I started watching Young Sheldon maybe the beginning of this year or like maybe during summer. And then I watched the whole of it. And how it started, I saw some shorts, like some inserts on YouTube, which I found super funny and I thought, maybe this show is really cool. And then I watched the whole Young Sheldon and then I was like, oh, well, now I have to watch The Big Bang Theory. Should I watch it? Is it good? Which one? Young Sheldon?

Young Sheldon. I've never seen that. Yeah. I find the rest of the family funnier than the actual Sheldon. So if you want like really funny Texas speaking people, then it's good. It's pretty funny. Okay. I'll give it a watch. Thanks for the recommendation. Yeah. It's like so Texas-y and so like traditionally from that state. Yeah. Also the behavior, like the vibes in the sound.

Okay. I'll see. And you also, I didn't know that you were still playing viola up until like before this season. Is that something you're going to pick back up? It's a thing that I put down and pick back up every now and then. Like in seasons I did six years of musical school. I started a little bit late also, so I had to like run through the like so-called elementary music school that last six years, but I did it in four. Like I had to do two years in one year twice, stuff like that.

And then I enrolled in the high school. I did years one and two, but then when I moved to Slovenia in my third year of high school, stopped like the music education, but I continued playing in the school orchestra where I was. So yeah, then when I enrolled in uni, this is where I stopped basically in the bachelor's and then yeah, picked it up every now and then, replayed some old stuff. Maybe if I found something new, I'd play that and then left it again and then picked it up again.

So yeah, I think I'll pick it up again soon. I have some stock on the place. I haven't touched my violin since I started climbing really, but I imagine the strings might kind of hurt on my fingertips. Depends. Depends how you play because for me, it's more like above the fingertip ones. So to say. So depends the sliding, like switching positions can sometimes be painful. And the second finger mostly because I kind of landed flat, but the first two are fine.

It's usually the third finger that is sometimes a little bit more difficult, but I mostly find it painful if you have like capsule injuries, but like any kind of actual finger injury. Some positions are really painful. I had it once or twice. Yeah, especially going to the last string, like turning over is hard sometimes. Oh, interesting. Yeah, but usually it works. I'm going to try it. You should. Get back to it. Of course. I'm going to try it today, right after this. Nice. Thank you.

We'll see how that goes. And we should. Interesting. Thanks. I've been inspired. I'm glad to hear. Okay. Oh my gosh, we're running out of time. I just want to ask really quick about OQS preparation and then we'll do a few discord

questions and then I'll let you go. So yeah, OQS, can you just briefly explain how OQS is going to work for people who aren't as familiar? It's a very confusing process, honestly. Like the hollow Olympic qualifications are very confusing. So OQS consists of two competitions. One is in Shanghai in May and the other one is in Budapest in June. So it will be run just as all the Olympic continental qualifiers, basically the same system. So you have qualifications, semi-finals and finals.

And then it's in both disciplines combined. So qualifications first, qualification boulder, then qualification lead. Then they sum up the points, take the 20 people, my people go to semi-finals. And then to say boulder semi-finals, lead semi-finals, sum up the points, take the eight people and then it's finals. So at the end of each event, you have your ranking one, two, 48. There will be 48 people there. Each of these places get a certain number of points.

It's like ranking points, nothing to do with climbing points. So just to denote the certain place that you hold after a competition, that's all. So the same is done in Budapest and then they will sum up these points. The ranking points will be summed up. It's basically like a general ranking in the end. And the top 10 in the general ranking go to the Olympic Games. But top 10, as long as the conditions are fulfilled, maximum two spots per country.

And then also if one French person or female French is in top 10, since they already have one spot and they have one host spot, they don't count in this one. So the 11th person also goes instead of this. So yeah, the French already has a spot, but they're allowed to send their athletes because host spot is the last one that is like filled up or given to a person.

Therefore they have the right to go to all QS and well, maybe use that event as a way to choose who the person will be for the host spot. I don't know. So they are allowed to send their athletes, but if they're in top 10, then they don't count in this whole scope. So yeah, you have two per country, so that means there's one more Japanese. So if there are three Japanese in top 10, only the first one counts, just two fall out and then you pick up people and so on.

And also there's some trick with the universality, like this Olympic solidarity spot. I think Vanna needs to be top 35 for what I've heard on that comp to be able to go to

the Olympics. If she doesn't make it, then also one more spot goes from no QS. I think this is also where I'm not 100% sure. But yeah, it's top 10, but with eliminates. Gotcha. Yeah. And so how is your mental game going into OQS? It's pretty well now because it's still the beginning of the training. It's still like basic training, basic buildup. Yeah, base endurance, base power. There's not much complex stuff going on yet. Not that many more comp specific things to be trained right now.

It's all physical basis. So yeah, I mean, mentally is just going through it and giving your all. It's just about finding those physical limits and then pushing through. This is that, that's like the part of the preparation now. And then in the following months, it's going to change and develop into more technical, more specific automatic things. Is there anything special to prepare?

The usual, it's a lot of fitness, a lot of spray wall climbing, like a lot of repetitions, circuit training, stuff like that. And also like the OQS competitions are happening quite close to the actual date of the Olympics. So does that affect anything? Like does it make it more stressful because then you have to like peak at different times? Yeah, it is a bit tricky because you technically have to peak twice. But I feel like qualifying is pretty important. So I'd rather peak soon as well.

I'd rather go to the Olympics and rather than not go. So I feel like there is no playing with this, with the OQS. It's really going to be tough. So it has to be top, top form for both of those comps to try to hold it, hold onto it. And of course, World Cups kind of lost their sense now in this year. But yeah, I think it's also, OQS is an amazing preparation for the Olympics. So it still gives you a month and a half to recover and prepare, which is quite okay.

But I think it should have been organized a little bit earlier because our idea was when we talked about it in the athletes commission was to have it like March, April, May latest, but then it all shifted and everything got postponed. So that's main juice. That's a little bit unfortunate, but it is what it is and gives us still enough time to prepare. Are you planning on taking part in any of the World Cups before that? I don't even know if they put out the schedule actually.

Yeah, there is a schedule. So I'll go to Shanghai for the World Cup in the beginning of April and also two weeks later is like a European Cup in Plagenfurt in Austria. So these are the two comps I'll do before. Then it's Shanghai OQS. So we go to Shanghai, come back and then go to Shanghai again. And between the two, I will not be doing any competitions. Makes sense. Well, we are looking forward to seeing you compete in the World Cups and really praying for you for OQS. Thanks.

We want to see it happen. Good luck to you. Yeah, me too. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Yeah. And so, okay, a few discord questions from the community. So first one, you're very expressive with your emotions on stage. Do you ever get negative responses to that and does it negatively impact you? Well, I think it affects me negatively when I have negative emotional responses. But it's who I am and it's how I've always been.

So this was one of the bigger like long-term projects of mine to try to kind of calm it down a bit, not in the sense of restricting myself of emotional expressiveness, but rather to control the negative side if it comes. There were times I think three years ago when I was really getting pretty angry at myself like for making mistakes and stuff, but it's always like a few layers down. It's like accepting of yourself and your mistakes and starting over.

And a lot of the things I never thought I'd have to deal with, but as you grow up, sometimes you forget how you were when you were younger and you didn't have such like mental responses. So then you actually put work in and yeah, change, rewire yourself and your way of thinking. Because as you grow up, you change and your brain changes and your thoughts as well. So there was also good progress on that this year. But I don't know if I get negative comments.

Mostly I think friends and family would point out to me sometimes, but mostly people like that I'm that expressive. I think it's good. Photographers like it a lot because they don't like it when it's completely not expressive. They hate it. They have nothing to shoot then. I've heard these complaints so much. They're like, oh, you're the easiest to shoot. There's always going to, something's going to come up.

No, yeah, it definitely makes it more interesting. Yeah. Okay. Any noticeable differences in how each national team trains since you've kind of been around? Yeah, it does. Actually you can see the patterns of what the base training consists of and how they do their plannings. So far I had to experience with a combination of what the Swiss used to do, the Austrians used to do, the Slovenians and so on.

It all has a similar idea, but slightly different approaches in number of moves, number of repetitions, how many times per week what when you do which exercises. Mostly they differ in what particular exercise for a certain thing. This is where I found the most variation. But it's usually just in the base training like this what happens in winter. But it follows a similar way of thinking.

Is it like, are you going to do, I don't know, four by four or three by six or are you going to do eight moves or 10 moves? Are you going to do it with weight, no weight and so on? There's stuff like that. Do you have a favorite national team training plan? No. The perfect one would be a combo of all of those, just picking bits and pieces from every

one. Okay. One person said, I lived in Munich for quite some time. What do you like about the city or about Germany in general? I like Munich because it's so nice and orderly. There are people that don't like this at all about Munich, but for me, it all looks kind of peaceful, so to say. Not too chaotic. It has just some really nice landscapes and nice spots in the city, like a lot of nice parks as well, pretty buildings, nice architecture. Each part of the city has kinds of different vibe.

I fell in love with Munich when I started coming in for the World Cups basically. It was always, I want to live here one day. I also said about Stockholm, but I still haven't lived there. I think the weather there is a bit too much for me. Here, it's still a lot of nice sunny days, but also a lot of rainy days, which I didn't know was a thing in Munich. That was a little bit disappointing, but okay. There's a lot of rainy days here too.

I mean, everything in that European area can get a bit gloomy. Yeah, it depends. I think everything south of Austria gets a little bit more sun. Yeah. I don't know. But I'd miss some mountains around here. It's pretty flat around Munich. So I have to drive for like an hour or two to get to the first mountains. Nearly when I drive to Innsbruck, which is two hours away, that's where I get the most beautiful mountain views. But yeah, Germany is an interesting country.

Sometimes it's too orderly, unnecessarily orderly. Sometimes the order depends on which view. But I also have a lot of international friends here, which makes it more colorful, so to say, or doesn't make it feel too German. Most of my friends are climbers, but also from different countries. We all live here for a while and found our ways how to fit into community here, people in the lifestyle here. So yeah, I feel like I've found a nice way of living here.

As an American saying that it's a two hour drive to get to Innsbruck is completely insane. That's not long at all. Yeah. For me, a day trip is two, two and a half hours maximum. Two and a half is still, I'll think about it if I'll do a day trip. So yeah, to Augsburg I have one hour, to Nürnberg I have almost two hours, Innsbruck two hours. Geez. Yeah, that's different. Switzerland, like Ticino is like four and a half or five hours max. Wow, yeah. And still don't go there enough.

I did a nine hour drive two days ago to get back from Vegas to San Diego. So it shouldn't usually take that long. There was just a lot of traffic, but I'm like, I'm broken physically and mentally from that. I don't drive to Serbia. I can't permit to an 11, 12 hour drive. I cannot do it. It's a lot.

It's awful. So yeah, it's under. Yeah. Okay. This was a comment that someone really needed you to know. They said in the 2022 season, you were co-hosting for a lead finals. Yonia ended up topping the route before she clipped. She waved and you asked her why she waved when you were interviewing her. And this person really liked that. Oh, okay, because as a friend seeing her do that, I was like, what is wrong with you? Clip first, wave second.

The funny thing is that sometimes I just, Yonia does stupid things sometimes and not really stupid, but rather clumsy things. She used to be really clumsy. Oh really? A bit younger. Yeah. When she falls for boulders, she would really often land on her face. I don't know how, but yeah, you've probably seen it in comps. And I think she told me recently that she started hearing me in her mind when she's about to do something stupid. She hears my voice telling her, come on, just do this thing.

I think it was a bend in like semi-finals and there was like a tricky slab. And I watched her and she was hesitating so much on the last move. She stood there for, I don't know, maybe 20 seconds. I don't know, or it felt like eternity to me. And I just held my head and I was like, what are you doing? Just stand up. And she was like trying to go and stop and go. And I was holding my head and I wasn't even close to her.

And after a while I heard your voice in my head telling me, oh, come on, Yonia, just stand up. I was like, well, I'm proud I'm in your head.

Such decisive moments. Yeah, that means a lot. Okay, last question. Are there any outdoor boulders and projects that you're currently interested in or working on? Yes, there is just one that I'm very interested in. The others I've kind of lost myself in finding proper projects, so to say, because I also haven't spent much time outdoors either. And I found only one that really attracts me, but it's also really, really hard. So it's a very long, long-term project.

So it's the Big Island, the 18th Fund. Every time I'm in the Fund, I go and play around with it. I find it really fun to play around with. I'm doing the original beta OG Dave Graham. I span it out. I still miss one move, but the rest I've basically done and worked on. It's just about connecting sequences. I've done quite some good progress. Now this autumn after Laval, I had one good session there. But yeah, other than that, nothing that I've really tried that I've devoted myself to so much.

There's a couple of things in Frankenjura, like the leader with father and son, soft HC or like 8B plus HC, which is almost always wet. And the hardest part is not to slip off the holds and to kind of over grip. And it was really cold when I tried it last time. I was too humid, so I didn't manage. So yeah, I'd like to do that one. Just because the fact that being wet is the crux is just a little bit annoying and I just want to get it done.

It's a nice route, really nice route, but this is like a very unpredictable thing. But yeah, these two currently and yeah, there'll be probably maybe more if I start like devoting my time to actual projecting. I guess you probably won't have a chance this season before OQS. Probably not. And I'm honestly also not interested in it. I put so much focus on the OQS preparation that I feel like if I go outdoors, it's going to feel wrong.

And so far I've always been the person who needs the balance of both. I crave outdoor climbing in nature to be able to train properly afterwards. But now, yeah, this is probably the first New Year's that I'm not doing any outdoor climbing. Like no, I plan no climbing trips. Maybe I'll go somewhere for a weekend because Frankenheuer is close and maybe drop by Zillertal or something. But yeah, that's no trip. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that makes sense.

You've got to stay focused on LQS and we want to see you make it to the Olympics. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that's all the questions I had. Thank you so much for joining me. Is there anything you want to shout out or let people know where they can find you? Yeah, if you can mostly find me on Instagram, I'm bad with replying, but I think I read and open every message. So I'm really grateful to everyone who texts and expresses their support in any way. So yeah, that's the way to go.

Other social media platforms I'm not really on. So yeah, Instagram is the one I think. Okay. And I'll leave the link down below. All right. Well, thank you so much. It was amazing to talk to you. Yeah, you too, Givi. Thanks. Those are good questions also. Oh, thank you. Yes, I try. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise you are a super fake climber.

If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.