Zebras w/ Mike Doyle

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Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

I am your host, Kara Klank and I'm Liza Trigger, your other host.

We talked SVU crimes. We have celeb guests.

It's a jam packed episode, like always, fan favorite episode, can't wait, but I have huge news. What So I went to our local dive bar yesterday, you know, Johnny's, and with a few of my friends and it was bingo night and I won bingo twice. Oh my gosh, I love bingo. I want dominoes and then my own little like bingo set. But the dominoes were such a good prize. But yeah, I won once and everyone was mad, and then I won twice and then people were kind of annoyed, but.

They were like, this is rigged.

But I was just lucky and fun. And she made my vodka soda so citrusy. I fucking love it there. But again I was home again by like ten something. I was in bed by eleven BM.

Oh my the world, this is crazy, A new girl. It's a new person. I went and did a show last night. But then I was home and everybody was a buzz on the internet, and I know, listen, we're always in the time machine now, but so this will be old news.

But were weird? If we didn't mention it, you would be why.

Yeah, Marisha Carte did last night win the People's Choice Award for Best Dramatic Actress or something amazing. She looked great. Everyone's like, look at her hair. I'm like, yes, those are beautiful extensions. Her hair is like down past her tits. Practically, it's wild. She looks great. She's giving a speech where I don't I don't know. I didn't watch the show.

It's so rude that it almost.

Circles back around to being hilarious, like she's just the most clueless woman on the planet, Like, who even has their purse? Like when you go present an award, When you see people at award shows, they have their purses on the red carpet. Maybe they're not they don't have them on stage with them.

You're also not doing lip gloss, and people are trying to make excuses like maybe she didn't think the camera would be on her, and it's like you're standing right behind the it's also distracting.

It's so rude.

It's Yeah, instead of all eyes being focused on this speech and this person winning, they're looking at you.

Now.

I just don't think it's all innocent and clueless. I think she's an evil bitch.

Like you think she's doing that shit on purpose.

Well, I think he's pro life and she did, and she just wanted to like do something instead of listening to her talk about pro choice.

Yeah, but like, inconsiderate people are bad people. So even if like clueless and inconsiderate, are they the same.

No, I think she's inconsiderate.

It's like you don't think someone is winning an like you're on stage with a person giving a speech, Why are you digging in your purse and starting the lip gloss? It's inconsiderate, Like, I don't think it's just like, so's funny. She also kidnapped her daughter in the middle of the night and threw her into a juvie jail, So like, I don't see past that.

Yeah, I haven't seen that at all, But like I I honestly was thinking about it how I thought Marishka would take it, and I was like, I bet Marishka will think.

This is funny. I'll defend her and she could laugh about it. Yeah, like it is crazy. Well, I think I'm also taking out my anger for the people who are like so everything is just so black and white in our culture now where it's just like Lisa Rene is evil and Kathy Hilton's an angel, and that kind of storyline makes me hate her, even if I don't truly you know what I mean, because it makes me like she's not an angel, she's I just bet she's

I'm glad she won, even though I don't know.

I don't really even know People's Choice Award, like, don't worry one. Yeah, it's like all based on people and fans and stuff.

So I think that's kind of cool because Jennifer Aniston, I don't think ever won like an Emmy or anything, and no one gave her respect, but that bitch cleaned up. But the People's Choice she is America's fucking sweetheart. We really likes her. I just don't like how much she pedals products now and I get it, honeymaker mind, but you are probably worth like what five hundred million dollars, Like, yeah,

Yeah.

I just saw Ali mccowsky wearing them today on Instagram.

They look hip. Okay, Yeah, Dave Mazzoni is the one who got I was.

Like, ooh, but the big problem is you can't use him on a plane, and that's usually where I use big ones.

Oh they don't even have a chord that comes with them.

They don't. But listen to this. On our last there's no cord. But on our last flight that I saw a guy in front of me and it's like a little attachment that you can plug into the TV screen. So I texted Mazzoni immediately he goes, you knew I needed this, and that makes me kind of excited for technology. And yeah, it like as a Bluetooth you can plug into your as.

You screen out.

I'm like, I just saw guy using it the other day and I was like, oh, hell yeah, well was it the guy on the flight. It was the guy that kept We were in the lounge of the line with him. He was the one in the scooter. It was him who had it. It wasn't him, but I know him. No, this was like multiple flights ago.

I saw a guy with this, and I go, oh my god, this is amazing because I'm so sick of on the airplane, like always pulling my thing out in the middle of the movie by accident. Like I would love to have my wireless on. So that's cool, That is wild.

Yeah, the listeners to know that if that's something outside of the insane price tag that is keeping you from Bluetooth. Yeah, big headphones, there's a there's a compartment.

Maybe it's like a big the big ticket item you ask for this holiday. Speaking of this episode's wide releasing on December twentieth, Happy Honkah. We're in the middle of Honkah. Happy almost Christmas, Happy everything else that you celebrate. If you celebrate something else, hope, happy holidays. Ever this best of us for the rest of us. Yeah, what I mean, I don't know, do you have any holiday thoughts?

Do I have holiday thoughts?

You know?

I love when everyone you know, whether it's Christmas or even the Super Bowl, which I'm not even a fan of.

But I like when everyone's connected.

Like I like when everyone's doing the same thing at the same time, even if it's like a blizzard or natural disaster.

I'm like, we're all connected.

Yeah, and the pandemic in a weird way, was like wow, I'm I'm having the same experience as someone in like New Zealand, India, like Japan, like all over the world. We were all having the same experience of being locked in our houses.

So I know what you mean. Well, I'm still in China.

I mean those videos of people being dragged out of their apartments, I know, I don't.

I can't. I Hunger Games usk, yeah, it's Hunger Games. Ask.

Yeah.

I love Christmas.

I also am someone that did movies movies for Christmas growing up, so like, I love an American Christmas. I want the pajamas, I want to lounge, I want to watch the movies. I want us stalking like, I love it all and I'm doing My good friends invited three brunette Jews to their house, so we're gonna just like go. I love friend's house and I already pre ordered Magnolia banana pudding in cupcakes delivery and my Italian Shircos pastry

Yeah, that's my that's my step in the game.

That's what I've always done that as a kid, even like I would be like, I'll give you money if you go do it, I'll pay for it.

Like I just don't want to do anything.

Yeah, my family loves the kids like to go out to a movie on like Christmas night, like the night after Christmases, after the meal or whatever, we got to a movie, Like I remember we all went to go see Django one year. We saw The Favorite a few years ago, Like we always go to a movie.

That's cool, you still do it? Mine is such a memory of my past. What would you see this Christmas? I don't know what's out the coming out this Christmas. Tarantino like releases movies on Christmas. I feel like all the time. I so every time someone goes, oh my god, this movie is amazing, I go, I have not even heard of it. Someone at the bar Astro was like, this movie it's the best, it's the best, and I'm like, I did not even I I haven't even seen one ad one tweet, nothing about it.

And it's like, so it's so different because also like movies are coming out for like a week and then streaming, you know, like all the like things are coming out, Like I heard that movie spirited, that holiday movie was very good.

Well, but you can always watch it, you know what I mean.

So that's act like very kind of looking really quick to see if I can find anything that's something was.

Like baby, I love you, or like baby it takes to like something Baby I feel But people like Triangle of Sadness. I mean, I still want to see Pearl. I haven't seen my Halloween movies of this year yet. I know that's where I'm a.

I do want to see that. I do want to see the menu that looks.

Good that that was talked about yesterday at the bar.

Yeah the menu.

Yeah it's a dark comedy, yeah comedy, And I.

Would like to see that. And I can't think.

Oh, and Casey just did flag us our little ten minute thing, which reminded me I did for some reason. Whatever go through all of our one star reviews just to see to see what's that. And I'd like to say, if you don't like the intro or us talking about non SVU stuff, you know what you can do fast forward it. You don't tux how about that? You don't know how to fast forward, you don't know how to go ahead. It's like God, they don't stop talking, and it's like you just go. I listen to lots of

It's never love that.

I mean, that's my favorite thing. But if you do like us and you want to come see us live. I'm always you know it's me. You're weekly hawking of our tour day. We are going to be in Philadelphia on January nineteenth, in New York City on the twentieth, although I believe that show is sold out, but you never know. Sometimes when we post the homework, people will trade tickets underneath, so marketing your calendar you might be

I also forgot. We're in Indianapolis on the twelfth.

And we just announced we're coming to Vancouver for just for laughs Vancouver on February twentieth. I think we'll also both be around doing a few stand up shows around those dates as well. So all that shit's on, that's messed up live dot Com. Guys, go get some tickets, Come see us in Canada, come see us in on the East Coast and in Indianapolis.

And it would be fucked up if we did not mention Christy Ally. I know she has been questionable with her brain and mouth. Uh recently in the past few years, but what a superstar. We went a lot to both of us comedically, acting, hair, beauty, everything, so yeah, and wishing the best for her family, yes for sure, sending like, you know, love to her kids.

And and we just reviewed her book on Chelsea Devonte's Celebrity Book Club. If you're interested in remembering Kirsty, go back and listen to our episode.

I mean, you.

Said it was the worst book ever, and she hated it a great book. Chelsea said it was the worst she'd read. All these things can be true.

She can be a bad memoirist and a trumpy scientologist, but also a huge part of my childhood, an amazing an amazing actress. She was amazing on Cheers. Look who's talking all kinds of things. She was huge famously. Yeah it takes two. I loved that one.

And I really love for Richer and Poorer and Tim Allen's also become a maniac or could have always been, who knows, but the for Richer and Poorer really played a lot in the Tragger Household and ours.

My family was obsessed with a movie called Mad House. It was a PG thirteen movie about too many guests coming to visit a house at the same time and the people going crazy, and it's from nineteen ninety. It's her and John Leroquett and s v Alum and it's amazing. It's so crazy. But we watched it so much. I don't know if it was like on hbolop. We were just watching it all the time. Love it was. She was truly a hero of mine. She made me want to be a single mom. When I watched La Who's talking?

Yeah. Oh which, oh gosh.

You know, hopefully by the new year, Kara will be caught up on White Lotus.

Oh, we got to talk about it.

I know.

I'm sorry, it's like I just I don't.

I just listened to Megan Faihie unless Culturistas today too in the car and she brought up us for you a little bit, which was exciting. Okay, excuse me, well, because they were talking about guest starring and if she's been on a like this other show, and she went, no, my big moment was.

SVU, So I like that she gave the shout out.

Okay, so let's get started, because I'm obsessed with this episode.

This episode.

Yeah, this episode's huge, Jess. So you know, you may have seen us do this in a live show, but I think our recap today is going to be different, and we're so excited to bring you this classic Stay tuned.

Zebras Season ten, episode twenty two.

We've done this live a couple times.

Yeah, if you've seen us do this baby live, still listen because I think we're going to have different opinions and not opinions, but observations. We will pretty much always feel the same about this episode. It's a classic we in case you don't know, when we go on tour, we do episodes that usually aren't based on a crime.

We try to do classics.

But as I was going through a bunch of different episode a bunch of our different resources that we used to see what stuff is based on, I noticed that there is a case that this is based on. So we decided to do it for the pod, and we got a cool guest. So it's all coming together and Zebras is happening when it's supposed to happen. But we've done it on the road, and we hope that you enjoyed that if you saw it.

Yeah, I yeah, I'm excited. It's it's a pretty guest forward. I would say, yeah, a clue, but not too specific of a clue. Listen, we open up on rollerbladers that are very into safety and guess what, Karen os one of the bladers. Yes, the blader is my friend Kevin,

Because he is a Broadway baby.

He tours all over right now in the touring Castuff Come from Away, So if you've seen him Come from Away in your city, he plays the mayor of the town as well as other parts, because everyone plays a million parts in the show, but he's the best, and he is the one getting to live our dream of rollerblading into you know a body.

Yeah, and there's helmets knee pads, elbow pads, risk cards, and the daughter's pissed. She's like, why do we even do this? Like I clearly suck at this. Dad like, why can't we do something else? And he's like, we're having fun. And then he starts rolling down a hillbridge in Central Park. He's not ready for that kind of incline and he falls into a bush. And then after his daughter pulls him out, they see that he's covered

That's a good point.

And then they start looking in the bush. Where's the blood coming from? The daughter's shrieks so loud, obviously a dead body and from the scream we cut straight to Benson and the Stabler on the scene. Stabler is wearing a baseball hat and I think it's hot and that's that and their first lines in the scene are stucky, what's up? And this is a stucky episode? So trigger warning, trigger warning, and stucky is played by Noel.

Gall No is it Noel Gallagher from Oasis? Noel Fisher, Yeah, Noel Fisher.

That would be so funny if it was played by one of the guys from Oasis.

Yeah. I don't think that's that crazy of a mix up.

No, it just made me laugh because the Gallagher brothers are like these weird brothers that fight each other.

I know, they're such dorks. They're such dorks.

So yeah, Noel Fisher, I know him really well from Shameless and he's in He's an incredible actor, but this is one of the most hated characters of all time, and it is what it.

Is that it shows how much how good he is because you want to kill him. But then everybody that you meet that like no Zimmer has seen him and other stuff like, is obsessed. So all of our comments about Stuck you're about Stucky, don't come for us. Noel fisherheads, we realize he's a good person.

So Noel Fisher in Shameless plays this character whose sister is no As Ellie Porter, Noah Porter's birth mother. Oh wow, so they play siblings. Okay, yeah, they're the Milkovich's cool.

I've never seen like a second of Shameless, I gotta watch it.

Yeah, Mickey and Mandy Milkovich. So Stucky starts to fill them in and it's early thirties and then he goes, just bookoo lacerations. And you told me that's a word in French, but I both thought it just says a lot. Yeah, I thought it was slang like bookoo bucks Like it just always seemed like slang to me. And I just thought it was so disrespectful to the dead woman. But I guess it is a real French word. I think his tone is very disrespectful.

He's acting way too excited for a woman that has many lacerations.

Yeah, so yeah, I wrote she's slashed to hell. So maybe I'm stucky too, you know what I mean? Maybe I'm disrespectful to this a too stucky Yeah, deep stab wounds Kansas driver's license. Her name is Rachel, thirty two years old. Benson notices she has her wedding rings song, so probably not a robbery. Stucky leans down and he has his own theory and he's like, what if she's in cahoots with the mafia. This is a message. And

Fuck.

So everyone just runs off, starts looking for a baby. The baby's in the stroller, alive, and on the baby's forehead it says innocent. Benson exclaims, damn, maybe we are looking for a zebra credits.

Yeah.

I just feel bad for Zebras because they are so cool, but they're no one's number one animal.

I think we talked about this at one of our lives.

They are so one of the wildest animals when you just see them, because I don't understand how that's camouflage anywhere. So it's just like when you think of like whoever created animals, You're like, wow, whether you believe that's God, whether you believe that's evolution. I'm just kind of like, how did zebras get in there?

But I know, but like if I if I was going to Safari, I would be like, can't wait to see giraffes and elephants, even though zebras are so cool, but they're no one's favorite.

True, You're right, what is it like? No one's like can't wait to go to bots and see the zebras.

It's always just like can't wait to see a lion and they look just like cats.

Who cares about lion? I mean I do, I would love it.

But I'm just saying it's weird that zebras are not more popular since they're so beautiful, totally unique. They have a lot to bring to the table. Okay, so yeah, we open up Zebra's right, we're back. Well, yeah, I just know that there is a funny joke about zebras from childhood. You know what's white and black and red?

All over or something like a zebra and a blender or something. I was sunburned.

Zebra, oh oll mine is so violent.

Yeah, the blender going straight to blenders. Crazy.

We open up back on a nurse holding the baby and we hear voices like damn, who would do this? And Benson's like, maybe you can tell us. So we see that it's the data the baby and the detectives are behind him and they ask the guy, did your wife have trouble with anybody? And he's like, we don't know anybody in New York. I went to a talk on hydroponics.

Cool.

Rachel took Evan to Central Park to take pics, but they didn't find a camera and that really upsets him. He's like, please, we took photos all week and I need those photos. Those are our last photos. Please find my camera. We're back on the scene and yay, the camera was found, but by Stucky and he's like this is a shitty camera. Who gives a shit? And it's like, fuck you, bro, not where it's for the pictures, you know. So they have to explain to this dumb ass, like so.

Like zero, if there's bedside manner for a CSU tech he has like negative like he just doesn't have any common sense.

Well, I wonder if it's like also a clue to his so seopathy or like that he's a psycho that in his head, he's not like, oh, the husband would like to look at photos of his dead well last moments of or on the earth of his wife. Yeah, Instead it's like this camera sucks. Was this even worth the overtime page? Like he's just not connected to humanity. Well, that's why he's a scientist. Most doctors and scientists are pretty cut off from Yeah people, Yeah, come out, come

So what happened?

And Stucky says, if only babies could talk, right, And it's like, yeah, there's a movie about that, which is really good.

Look who's talking?

Yeah, the best, one of the best, one of the best movies of all time. And you know, famously a movie that made me want to be a single mom when I was growing up. I love that movie so much and I was like, yeah, the dad is an asshole.

Like I just want to have a baby and have me be me and the baby. I love Kircially with the baby. I was like, that's it. I'm going to be a single mom.

I mean, I obviously had no idea what that entailed, but I was like, take men out of it, me and the baby.

That's so cute. O'Halleran does find a clue in the photo. There were a bunch of people in orange vests working department and employees. They are out now asking a guy, and this man at the park responds to Finn and munch is going to their public service guys.

Finn asks if they're.

Scales, which means bottom feeder, parasite, low life, con artist type. I did look it up and he's like, oh no, these are like public and talks boys, fair beats, chill criminals. So they ask if any of the people were suspicious, if he saw anything. He didn't notice anything, but he's down to give all the info on all the morning crew and they're actually all at the boat house painting except for one guy, Peter Harrison, who had to go home early because he was bleeding.

He cut himself on a glass bottle.

He's doing ninety hours of community service for menacing, which does not seem like a chill crime at all. He does not belong with people that are just not paying for their train tickets. He actually tried to push a woman off a subway platform and one of my biggest fears. And Benson and Stabler go visit Peter at his home. They knock knock, show the badge and the people and the voice of the other end not impressed, and he's like, if you don't have a warrant, I don't give a fuck.

Yeah, because I just.

Like to listen to what people are talking about. I'm a snoop.

So then they bring up this woman in the park and he was like, oh my god, she was taking photos of me. She was gonna geotag me and let everyone know my location, and then you know, the black helicopters were gonna come down. So then he so he approached this woman and he searched her first, and then she he saw wires and she wasn't cooperating with him, but he ordered her to abort the mission, and in that moment, his attorney walks in and says, and I

We have a warrant.

So we're at his home and Stucky's making fun of him, and it's confused why this dude only has one plate, one cup, one fork, and Munch's But do you think Stucky has friends? Like, maybe he has more plates and forks and knives, but there's no way he has friends.

Yeah, you don't think he's entertaining.

Yeah, I don't even understand how a person like Stucky would operate in New York City like that. In a way, Stucky, I appreciate what a bad character he is. I like where we're going, but he is a departure for the show of this kind of character. We've never had such a cartoonish wackadoo. Who is like Stucky in the SVU universe.

I feel like, who's that guy that's in Law and Order? Who is in Blackish? Anthony Anderson? He was annoying to me, like over the top, but that was only one episode.

Yeah, but like someone with like no social skills, who's made it to the top of this field in New York City where you have to imagine that, Like, I bet you he is. He's just one of these people that's just like very BookSmart and just has zero social skills.

And that's like the problem with him.

But we find out later spoiler if you've watched already, he's unhinged.

So I don't know, I just wonder, like, is he in a book club? Who are his friends?

Like can you imagine him walking down the street going to start about like living life in New York?

I don't see it, but you know whatever.

So Munch is on this guy's laptop and is like, damn, this dude is paranoid as fuck, and he has all these websites open about surviving gang stalking, nine one one truth, nine one one, nine to eleven, Truthers, Vatican stuff. And Finn opens the closet and it's pepper An's style, just five shirts, pants, all the same, all black, with six pairs of shoes and so the sixth outfit is missing, but why not the shoes? And that's a huge mistake and he actually has a knife in one of the shoes,

So then Stabler's there and he starts to.

Say Stucky's catchphrase, and he's like bing bang, and before he can finish, O'halaran's like, please stop, please don't say it. There's also blood on the on the guy's shoe as well, and Stabler's like, this guy is toast his defense. Lawyer walks in though, and and I guess she's just allowed in the lab whenever she wants and she barely right. That seems that's suspicious to quote Cardi B that's weird, Like why, like lawyers shouldn't be allowed in there. She

He hands it over.

She looks through the file and then smiles and she's found a contamination. He says, no way, and she's like, well, the evidence number from the murder and from my client's apartment are both listed under the same voucher number, and that's a big no no. Stabler grabs the file and fuck and Ryan goes stucky and lawyer the lawyer says, commingled evidence. I love the word commingled. Lawyer says com mingled evant. So my client walks right out the door,

I never clocked this until here, like with a minute. She opens the door, she sees Stabler like she gets Judith light Horn dog eyes like her eyes like soften up and she's like, oh, Elliott like and she's like, what akwinkie dink I'm in my robe, like it's so funny to me.

But he explains, He's like, I actually just need some help with this case. She's like, you know, listen, your department runs the notion of credible DNA, so the results are unreliable. That would be disastrous and overturn hundreds of convictions. So you got to talk to Cabot and see if getting this purpose really worth setting a lot of guilty people free. And so we're at arrangement and the court

Defense is going to argue you did.

Like we don't care and we bring in Peter and it's time to decide what they're going to do with this killer. And we meet an eighty a named Kristin Torres for the people. Cabot's stuck in traffic so she couldn't make it, and Julia Zimmer, the defense is like, or she didn't want to be like a laughing stock, and you know, with this career ender of a case. But the defense attorney calls for a full dismissal. Stucky is so sad. He's furrowed, crybrow vibes and reacting to what's happening.

He's so stressed out.

And defense asks like to come back when they have a better case, and the judge's down and it's like gavel dismiss, dismissed without prejudice. Stucky yells, you can't dismiss. He's guilty, your honor, and the judge leans in and smiles and goes, oh, you must be Dale Stucky, and his response is that he's good at his job. And the judge's like, you're diluded. If this is your definition of doing a good job, you're in the wrong line

Your meds and I like that.

Julia Zimmer says, thanks, Dale, we couldn't have done it without you, a real twist in the knife in his gut of embarrassment, and sta to Peter says we'll be watching you. As he walks out of the courtroom, Dale looks sad. He then runs down the court steps yelling for the detectives. As you know, they put sunglasses on and walk down really sexy on the court steps and they don't have time for him. They're like, you botched

Bro, you did fuck up.

He calls him selfish and says, I'm going to do anything I can to get you run out of CSU until you're working at the motor pool where the only thing you can screw up as an oil change. Stabler walks off in a huff and Benson is like little miss good cop and says, Bro, people would make mistakes.

We just have to figure out a way to fix it.

And he says how and he's walking away, and Benson goes, oh, Harrison has a shadow, two of them in fact, and Finn and Munch are following Harrison down into the subway and wildly we're in Coney Island, a busy, busy day at the Pier Amusement park and Finn and Munch are full sunglasses in black they look like goths at a carnival. And there's an Aladdin style fire spitting sword guy and the killer enters a haunted house and the detectives cut

Like it's so crazy. Why are you riding the ride one?

If you take the exit one, if you take the entrance, there's only a couple ways in and out of this haunted house at Coney Island.

No, they like fully didn't, like they could have closed the ride down, but I guess they're just following him.

But like they did the ride.

And it looked like a great haunted house like there, you know, it was ghoulish, there was like fun stuff. But so they lose him, obviously, and it's just like it's funny to look for someone in sunglasses and Finn is wearing ladies' frames for sure.

Yeah, they're both wearing sunglasses inside a house. Like I'm however, did you lose him?

What silly?

And the fact that like you get out of court and you just run to Coney Island.

Is really funny to me too.

If there's people that listen to this podcast, because people do tell us they listen and they don't watch.

You got to just go on and look at this.

The way that Finn and Munch look coming out being he cupped out of a haunted house in a little spinny ride, both wearing sunglasses, frantically looking for the killer that they've lost is lah.

It's like Chef's kiss television moment. I love it.

I know it's really wild that we haven't enticed you to watch yet. I mean, I'm just obsessed with us, but so wild. So we're at the precincts, we're no longer in Cony Island, and it's Stabler yelling like I can't believe they fucking lost him, and Huang and Benson are there with him, and Huang says, yeah, it's gonna be hard to find him because he's so paranoid and believes all eyes are on him. So he's like got a lot of places to hide, and he's a pro

Like, of course we lost him.

We tried our biss So then Munch is like, maybe it's someone else's.

Stabler's like shut up, like he's not having it.

Of course it's this guy Stucky comes out from under the pier with a can of cola and there's a nice bloody fingerprint, so that's good, okay, And then it's like a really cool shot where Stuck he's in the middle of Stabler, Munchfinn, and Benson and I bet this is like a huge day in the actor's life though, Like whoever who else gets to stand in the middle of all four detectives over them, Like that must have

But how is he posting and running?

So someone named Gwendolen is chatting with him on the site, so maybe we can find him through her, and Munch goes, Okay, well I know her, so I'll do this, and he says that he knows her from a jfk assassination site and she has some great pictures of the Grassy Knoll. So he goes to meet her at Overthrow bookstore. And I used to go to a place called Overthrow Boxing, so I kind of like that and it's a it's fucking Carol Kane beloved that. I love her so much.

My favorite thing she's in because it's the holiday season coming up, Scrooged. I'm obsessed with Scrooge. She's one of the ghosts. I love her so much.

Yeah, Carol's belove it film, TV, animation, stage and she has like a really signature voice, a lot of blonde curls are cute, and she's smiling and she's happy to see Munch.

He's not in the Forum anymore.

He's retired from that, but he's underground working on exposing the truth. And she's like, it's got to be so bad, you know, with all these cell towers they're watching us. And he says that they're on to Peter and they're trying to find him. And she's like, oh, you know him and he's like, oh yeah, I heard him give a great talk on homeland security. And it's like, where is he booking talks like he's he's just a Joe Schmow, you know. She says he knows too much and that's

You did it to yourself.

And he pulls on a rope that's hanging from the ceiling and liquid and smoke happen, and our boys are coughing, they're struggling, but also Finn is like bending down into the smoke fumes. We're back from a commercial break and our boys in blue are okay, and Finn is like, honey, I've shared a car with Finn for a long time and I've smelled a lot worse. Oh, Hallarin's on the scene. He's like, no, listen, you guys, joke all jokes aside. You're lucky to be alive. A couple more seconds breathing

Thank god. You know, a girardi wasn't the last. Yeah, I was just gonna say she was his girardi, but a good one. Yeah. And she was actually his trustee until he turned twenty one. And she wants to take care of him and help him, and she knows that he could be a danger in himself in the community, but she's the lawyer and so like, the detectives know this,

Yes.

He comes into the studio at night and then he's always gone by the morning, just a little vampire artist. And they go look at his paintings and Benson says, wow, Teacher's like incredible, right, and Stabler's like it's like the Dante's Inferno meets Newsweek, and the teacher's pissed. He's like, a collage isn't just for school children? And I love collaging.

Elliott didn't get what oh so stupid.

Then starts analyzing out loud and the crew hates him. They're like, you're in the wrong building. Oh are you just gonna solve the crime for us? And then he's like, come on, it's super clear these are the faces of the guys he's gonna kill next, and Stabler says, why don't you put it down before you can daminate more evidence, And then to respond to that, he's like, well, one of these people look like Live and it does. It straight up looks like Live and had her homecoming. Is

People are following me.

I can't see them, but I know they're there, And Stabler and Benson are watching in and they pushed in as he talks about mind control, and she's yelling, no, Peter, and she says he was thrown off by the paper with his face that says madman on the loose, which I think would get anyone kind of stressed out, you know what I mean.

I don't know, no one would love that.

And Benson's like, well tomorrow we'll say the city is safe again, and it's like until next week's episode, honey. So Zimmer, though she's conflicted. She like, you know, did she do the right thing as a lawyer, But you had to sell. You had to help yourself, babe. He yils Trader and says you'll pay, and Stabler walks him off cuffed. Stabler puts him in the back seat, and Zimmer's like, I'll meet you at the precinct. But when she gets into her car, it starts filling with gas

But she is dead as hell. Like she gets moved and she is dead like it's shocking. It's like at the top of the act, next act and you're like, oh, I guess she didn't make it, Like I was shocked. Oh I thought you. I thought we knew she was dead on arrival when that gas just I just.

Don't know how quick gas works.

I always thought they broke the window, like when I when I watched this for the first time, I was definitely like, well they got around. I'm sure she's just passed out and she'll just cough and come back to life.

But no, Yeah, I guess sometimes we forget we've seen these eight hundred times.

Yeah.

So the car turned into a gas chamber basically, and then in the little mirror flap in the front seat, it says guilty, so he must have rigged the car Before going up to talk to her. Ryan says he'll take the car to the lab and haula with anything in my Heather Thompson, but he'll let them know if he finds anything. So then they're like, fuck, what about the other friends that betrayed him? What if he left

Yeah?

And also you like used a personal relationship to help this case, and you know that might have been tough for you. I was the water throwing looks improvised to me. I'd be really interested to ask Carol Kane if she just like it seems like she just picked it up and like threw it like because not enough hits him.

Like, I don't know.

I really love that, but I also did really quickly want to circle back.

On the wiki of the fandom for SVU, Munch.

Is listed as having four ex wives, Gwen Munch, Billy Lou Hatfield, Felicia Munch, and then unnamed ex wife, which I love.

I thought there was one three. I didn't know there was four. This says unnamed ex wife. It's totally possible.

When he talked about unnamed ex wife, he was talking about Felicia or Gwen or Billy Lou. I don't remember the talking about Billy Lou. But I you know, I never got I never did a deep dive into Munch's personal relationship.

But we gotta get Munch. What's what's been stopping us. We gotta get money. Yeah, I have lived in Paris. Let's get his ass. Let's get his ass. We'll get high on zoom and we'll ask him about all his

I'm shocked.

I mean that's how they did Jurassic Park. Oh yeah, the whole premise of Jurassic Park is that they found dinosaur blood in the in the in the fucking mosquitoes and rebred dinosaurs.

So yeah, I don't watch Jurassic Maybe.

I'll watch it again. Maybe it'll really I've only ever seen the first one. I've never seen another one. I'm not in the Jurassic universe like our old pal Stephen Morris. But like, yeah, I don't I don't know. I just know that from the first one, life finds a way, I know.

But maybe I should watch it again because even you know, I'm recording now from our friend Julia's house and they're big Jurassic Park house.

Oh they're j heads. Okay, yeah they are, but I don't know why. It never like tickled me in that way.

So anyway, this gas to death bug is going to be their star witness and we're gonna nail him from a bug. And Ryan says that cops in Finland did it recently and then and Jurassic Park. So but they also found a message in the car that says one down, three to go, So who is next? Who is next? Who needs revenge? And then they're like, oh, fuck Judith Light. So they run to help Judith Light and she's pissed that he would ever even think to come after her,

How about the Waldorf? And excuse me, who's paying for this?

Yeah?

Like, is there a fund for judges that need to go in hiding because they won't just go to a motel. We've got to have a Waldorf fund for them.

I know, not even yeah, the Waldorf, But I want to know in terms of like four seasons, the Ritz and the Waldorf, like where they all lie in terms of the top notch. Like I know they're all five star, but I wonder if I don't know that's a fancy. If you're one of our richer listeners and you've stayed at all those hotels, please message us and rank them.

Yeah, I want to know.

I feel like a lot of successful working comedians are out of four seasons, but I also wonder if there's just tons of four seasons where people are going always curious. So anyways, Judith Light says, my house is safe, and then she sits down and all of a sudden she screams in pain. Something stuck her fuck and she passes out into Stabler's arm, and she says, I don't feel good. Benson picks up a full syringe. Was that in the cushion? Like,

Great I wonder the same thing because she had to have sat on it in a way that it depressed perfectly to give her the full dose, as they say, And like, I don't know how that happens, but whatever, suspension of disbelief, I'm just glad she gets carried out by Stabler since she's so horny for him.

But I just hope she's not gonna die.

And Mercy Hospital is six blocks away, so they rush her to the hospital. She's coating and they wheel her off. Benson and Stabler breathe deep as she's scurried away on a stretcher. Time passes and she'll be okay. And we find out that potassium chloride was in there and that's used in lethal injections. Stabler calls Craig into fill him in that our baby girl is safe, and he tells him o'haleran wants them in the lab. So Benson sent Stabler off and she's gonna stay with the judge for

Our hottie is dead, Stanley wives what. I don't know. We knew that then, I didn't know we knew it at this point yet. But he is dead.

It's so fucked up, yeah, because he's like and then once you like, yeah, lean your head to the side, I feel like you're dead.

Yeah, that's the that's a man.

And it's like it's just such a fucking plunge right into the heart.

It's not like, yeah, yeah, our baby is dead.

So sad to see such hotness be stuff be snuffed out, and in that moment, Stabler walks in looking for him and then sees the computer and the DNA match is drum.

Roll Stucky fuck bing bang bong, and then he sees the legs of dead Ryan o'hallar and in that moment he gets whacked in the head by a fire extinguish shirt, not the first time in the show Stucky is a psycho. He leans over Stabler and grabs the gun, and in that moment, his cell phone starts ringing, so Stucky answers Elliot's phone and it's Benson. He's like, hey live and Benson shocked to hear Dale's voice and he is like, where the fuck is Stabler? And he says, oh him

And that's a direct quote. Usually I add a lot of flare that he.

Said popped off, like that is him or I'm joking And I wrote that as a joke.

I don't remember anymore. I think he says hasn't popped yet. Okay, you may have added the off.

You and Stucky's powers combined created this sentence.

So he goes, so, yeah, so they just stepped out for a quick soushe and we'll be back and tell him I called, and then they hang up.

So Stucky is wet with excitement.

He pulls Stabler by his legs and tapes him to a chair and tapes his mouth shut. As Sabler comes to Stucky's there, being like, you're surprised, right, You didn't think I could do anything?

Huh?

And he peels the tape off his mouth and Stabler's like, what have you done?

Suck?

He's like, okay, big time detective. You can't figure it out. And he pulls the knife out of Ryan's body and is finally hitting Stabler, like what is happening? And he goes, fuck, you try to kill Judge and you gass Zimmer And he's like, yeah, I killed Ryan now too, and now you're gonna die you ready, And he starts cutting him and blood is squirting, and he said you shouldn't have been mean to me.

What a child?

He goes, you always made fun of me. Men ha ha he says he was trying to help Peter is a bad man and should be in jail, Like, sure, I screwed up a little bit, and Stabler's like, you just killed the girl and stuck. He's like, yeah, but I did it so we could get Peter. I'm a hero and Stabler is like, Harrison is in jail, You're not going to be able to push this on him. But he has a plane to frame one of his paranoid pals and there will be nothing to link me to any of this as soon as I get rid

It's perfect.

And Benson's acting a little crazy and Stucky's like, you're lying, and Benson's like, you think you're the only one who is living a hell because of this prick. And she walks to Stabler and starts slapping him in the face back and forth, quoting Stabler live do this, live, do that. I'm sick of it, sick of it. I want to

I'm so hot. She goes, dale, if I say the word you're it and the word.

You become instead of a CSU person a detective on New York and MYPD like, it's so crazy, and Stucky is crying and thinking about it, and he does like the sound of it, and she's like, yeah, we can.

You know, we get each other.

We're connected, We're so connected, she says again. He says, well, finally,

He's like, how did you know? And she's like, well, stuck.

He said, you went to get sushi, you and raw fish, And then Stabler laughs. I'm glad he's like fully bleeding from his abdomen and has time to giggle a little bit. And we've talked about this, what would be our sushi? You know, like how would you what would we know? Yeah, and you're a vegetarian, but like you would go to a steakhouse with a friend, like you would order something.

Yeah.

But if if somebody said, like, oh, she just ran out to grab like a pulled pork sandwich, you'd be like what you know? Because even when I ate meat that wasn't like thing I would have sandwich. Yeah, So minus pull pork sandwich, yours would be I know you don't like stuff. Yeah, but it's olives, Like I guess's at to go get it? She went out to go get a bunch of olives for martinis or something.

No, I mean I don't really eat Indian food often, but I've had it like four or five times at a restaurant with friends, so like, yeah, I don't know, I've had some most set like that's the thing. Like, even if I'm not down for something, if someone's like, let's go eat here, it's like, helly, yeah, let's do.

It right, it would be tough to get that. So I'm trying to think, like what figure it out?

Absolutely, if someone said we went out for mushrooms, that would be us connected.

We both Yeah, our eggplant parmesan. I don't know. I don't like that. Yeah, I don't either.

So if someone said, like Karen Liza went out for egg plant and portobello mushroom sandwiches, call the cops, Call the cops, Call the cops. Yeah, or outside of food, what would I'm trying to think what where I would never go?

Oh?

Yeah, someone said I was golfing.

I would Lisa is just out, you know, hitting a couple balls around, working the back nine or whatever they say in golf.

Oh yeah, so funny. Yeah, that would happen to me too. Yeah you would.

Yeah, you wouldn't golf, but your Connecticut would maybe do a fork in it.

I would Mini golf. If the if for ad Mini's not in there, I've been kidnapped.

And then they stand over Ryan and Stucky and Stabler says what a way to end done, done, It's over a bitch, it's stick.

Wolf, and it's like, what do you mean do you mean what a way for O'Halloran's life to end, or like what a way for this saga to end with Stucky? Like it's it's one of the most insane episodes because it's like, why did Stuck you have to kill so many people? Like he didn't have to play a full revenge spree.

We couldn't.

He could have just killed that girl under the boardwalk and like with the thumb print, that would have been good, killing his lawyer, going after a judge like yours.

Well, no, it's anyone that wronged him.

So the defense attorney was like, couldn't have done it without you, Stucky. So that's what made him want to kill her.

Oh okay, So basically Stuck he's going on his own revenge spree. I thought it was more he was trying to frame Peter for his revenge spree.

But then it got too late that it was like classic where anyone that humiliated him.

Had to die. Yeah.

Yeah, for someone to be like that but also have this like ding Dang Dong dorcas personality, you know, Yeah.

Don't trust anyone with a catchphrase.

Yeah that's true, as we say, that's dick wolf baby.

Let me be and then we'll get into the fucking crime. And you can all go pee too.

I get yeah, go take a quick pee and we'll be right back. Okay. So obviously this episode is off the walls bonkers, and there's not like a true.

There's no Stucky character.

But I would say that the Peter Harrison character is based off of a famous case of a man named Andrew Goldstein who was diagnosed with schizophrenia as you know, in his teen years, and then in January, on January third, which is my sister's birthday of nineteen ninety nine, at age twenty nine, after failing to take his medication, he pushed a thirty two year old aspiring writer, Kendra Webdale off onto the subway tracks at twenty third Street station,

She was well read.

She was like super disciplined, like would wake up early to run and made friends really easily. Like everybody just had great things to say about her. And she moved to New York to make her dreams come true. She loved the city. She'd lived there for three years. She was trying to write a screenplay. She had done a

But it wasn't just New York.

This crime triggered a full nationwide debate about mental health and don't worry.

We still haven't done that much about it.

But records show that Andrew Goldstein had been voluntary harraly hospitalized more than a dozen times before killing Kendra. In the few years before he killed her, he'd like more than a dozen times. His most recent stint had been just six weeks earlier, and in the two years before the attack, he had attacked physically with physical violence thirteen other people, including two psychiatrists, a nurse, a social worker,

So oh, I've heard about real. Yeah, this is a really interesting law and it's interesting.

It's funny to me that the episode didn't bring it up, Like they talked about a mental hygiene warrant, which we talked about in the Nashaun Williams case about the man who was, you know, allegedly spreading HIV wantonly, But like, you know, Kendra's law would have been a perfect thing to incorporate into this episode. And maybe it was just

Crazy.

I was thinking, Oh, I wonder what the three states are that don't have it. It's Massachusetts, Maryland, and my home state of Connecticut.

And I'm shocked.

I don't know why they don't have this because it seems like a much more I don't know, like integrated and like dynamic way to handle someone that is a danger to themselves or others because of mental illness. So and again, I am researching this off of like articles. I only have a certain amount of time to get this into the podcast. If you're like a mental health professional and you are like, fuck Kendra's Law, please write to me, but come to me with calmness, because I don't.

So that is important.

But because his group's study found that in about three nine hundred and fifty eight orders for treatment under Kendra's Law, forty two percent were black, but they only make up sixteen percent of the New York State population, while thirty four percent were white and they make up sixty two percent.

So a spokesperson for the state's Office of.

Mental Health said, her name is Jill Daniels, and she had a semen that says it's misleading to compare the race and ethnicity of those being treated under Kendra's law with the race and ethnicity of the general population. The law is used a lot more in urban populations, and like that's more the proportions are more similar to the adults that are receiving intensive care in those urban areas.

And another argument is that.

Black and Latino populations with mental illness might not have access to care at the onset of mental illness, which makes them more likely to end up in crisis that needs intervention. So these are just things I'm reading to try to present the pros and cons. Gresham and his group don't want to eliminate the law. They just want to remove the part about compulsory treatment but keep the part about offering better.

Access to help mental health services.

But then the argument for that is that that would like just hobble the law completely, like it wouldn't really be a lot Like most people are that are in the throes of a mental illness, that mental health event are not going to agree to this treatment. So that's the lowdown on Kendro's law. To get back to the man who did this crime, After two trials and a plea bargain, Andrew Goldstein was sentenced to twenty three years

Few years ago.

Judge Carol Berkman said of this case, quote, I have no doubt that someday, probably after we are all gone, people will look back at our treatment of mental illness under the law and be shocked and appalled.

End quote. So yeah, as of.

Twenty eighteen, there were four hundred thousand people incarcerated with mental illness, and unfortunately, like it's a cliche to say that prisons have become our mental institutions, but it's true. And Andrew Goldstein in twenty eighteen gave a very interesting interview with New York Magazine.

It was written by two people.

One person is an inmate at Sing Sing with him, and the other person is like a different writer for New York Magazine, and they wrote this together, and I just thought it was really cool the way this guy was like talking about why he was in jail versus why this guy's in jail, and like or prison, excuse me, and like, just he was able to interview him, like in the facility. So anyway, this article is really really interesting,

A perfect woman. I know.

I don't know. To destroy a perfect life like that is a horrible thing. I don't know why I did that. Obviously, you know, mental illness. He had no knowledge of his crime, which is interesting because the prosecution in the case tried to you know, they want to win. They want to win cases. Him pleading not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect puts him in a mental institution. It doesn't count towards their conviction rate. So he ended up

He like let her.

His friend was like, go have some fun with my girlfriend. He's like, I felt her boobs.

That was it. Like he didn't.

It doesn't seem like this was like motivated at all by in cell behavior. This was a guy who was having a full psychotic break and was off of his medication. He said he was still a virgin in prison at forty eight years old. So even he entered prison at twenty nine, and he had zero violent misbehavior reports in nineteen years of prison, so he was not you know, when he's on his schedule and on his medication, he's

I can't find.

Anything about what he's doing right now, obviously, I don't think anyone's like, but you know, hopefully he's staying on his medication and you know, he's served his time. And in February of twenty twenty one, Governor Cuomo suggested that we should expand Kendra's Law because there was an uptick of violent crime by people with untreated mental illness in New York City. But I'm like also, like, yeah, that was also the heart of the pandemic. Like I'm sure

I don't know the article in.

New York magazine, like it's in the show notes, like, but it's so worth reading. It's really interesting. And they talk to one guy I forget. He's just kind of a person who's taken this up as like a personal thing where it's like when we talk about mental illness, it's like it's anything from depression. To someone like Andrew Goldstein,

Yeah, I'll go with it.

Even Wildlife's a little more grounded, and that's like a monkey calming out of a basketball.

Yeah, but I'm sure that's all like real details from actual animal smuggling. I mean, has a CSU tech ever gone completely fucking postal and killed a bunch of people to a frame an actual murderer but also get his own revenge out on people like.

It's great, It's it's nuts. Uh.

And you know, wouldn't you love to know Sucky doesn't die? Wouldn't you love to see what stuck he's like in jail he's getting Oh that's actually making me sad. Stuck he's not been a good time in prison? Sure, or they like that he killed police people. Oh so maybe he becomes like a little leader there.

Yeah, I would actually love Like, you know, sometimes they have to go to former con artists or criminals to help like crist present day criminals. I would love a Stucky return from prison helping them on a case, Like I would love that.

That would be so okay sucky.

So when you were planning evidence and going through a complete.

Crazy we hate him and stuff, but now I want him back.

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to know what kind of like little gang he's running in prison, the Big Bang Bong Crew. But don't go anywhere, because we have thrilling guests. Thrill be happy, guys. Our guest today is an SVU favorite who I believe has appeared in the most episodes of anyone who is not a full time cast member aside from a child.

But you know, we love this We love this actor.

He can be seen in other films like The Invitation and Rabbit Hole, and he wrote and directed the comedy Almost Love. But you know him as dearly departed forensics technician Ryan O'Halleran. Please enjoy our conversation with the very talented Mike Doyle.

We so much for being here. We're really excited.

This a big sv you get for us as you are a huge well you.

Are, and Kara found that you have a record.

Yeah, you're the number one most well, you're the number two most recurring character on the show besides Noah Porter Benson. But I don't think that counts because that's three different actors.

Yeah, well, you.

Know, including twins.

I didn't realize that held that distinction, but that's pretty cool.

Yeah. Fifty three episode wow, wow.

Yeah, fifty two as as O'Halloran, which I wanted to ask, like, how did this how did your SVU journey like kickoff? Because you were originally on season three in this episode called Prodigy, where you are by the way, the thumbnail on IMDb, so they probably thought you were a big deal and you're just playing like a medical an assistant Emmy, and then two seasons later you come back to start off as Oh, how did that work out?

How did that go?

So you know, I, like every actor in New York had been auditioning for SVU for a very long time unsuccessfully, and my agents were like, tomorrow, Toney can't do these reshoots. Would you consider filling in for her? And playing the part, and at first, you know, you're like, wait, I don't want to blow it on like the me. They're like no, but it's going to recur. So I'm like, I was like, dude, I was like, I got this recurring part on Law and Order SVU that never recurred.

It's just like I.

Did it, and I was. I have to say, I was pretty bad. I do remember Chris and Marishka on their off camera like because it's like, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a muscle. I learned to train and speak the speak. I think that's why I lasted as long as I did. But when I was playing tomorrow's part, I was I was messing up the language like left and right, and.

Chris and Marishka are off camera like it's great, No, you got it, you got it, Like it's just awful.

So yeah, so that recurring part never recurred and I was like, oh, that's amor. Cut to a couple of years later, I'm doing a play with Chad Lowe, who's friends with Marishka and Peter. They come to see the play. Chad's like, hey, they're having a game night on the Upper West Side.

I'm like, I don't want to go.

I'm not going to know anybody, like you know, it's like you get like weird and self conscious and all that kind of stuff.

So I go there and Neil Bayer also was there.

And I said for him, yeah, and Neil is the best, like he will talk about him, but I I remember when I met with him once on another unsuccessful SVU audition.

He's like, oh, I wrote the episode of Er that you're in, which we shot in like.

Nineteen ninety nine, and I was like, oh my god, I'm so proud of that work. Jessica Capshaw is my wife. I play this like you know, law student loses his mind. Anyway, it was a connect. And then he was at this party. We had a great time, like you know, playing running charades and like it was that. It was that Bob Balaband's like beautiful pre war, huge epic apartment.

Martha Plimpton was there.

Oh my god.

It was just like a who's who and it was so fun.

And then three weeks later I get a call and they're like, oh, hey, uh you there's a part, not the part you played, a new part on SVU that was just offered to me, which never happens as an actor.

Would you do it? I was like, and then that was the beginning of my journey on SVA.

You must have made an impression at that game night.

I guess I did.

And I mean, hopefully you've never missed a game night since.

You know. That's what I when I meet with young actors, I'm like, go to everything.

Yes, don't be a douche, but just go, Oh.

My god, what a great story. I want to go to a game night at Bob Balaban's house. I mean, it's CSU language, easier than m E language.

Uh No, it's funny because like you know, I you know, I've been off the show for a long time.

So I'm like, I'm gonna go back.

And I watched my first well parts of my first last night, because I do remember that, and then part and then I watched Zebra's and in that first episode I had to say, I'll put it in my gas chromatograph, mass spectrometer and ice ghost.

To me, He's like, man, that sounds like you say that every day.

I was like, I have been for the last five so I could say it properly here.

But it was so that.

Job was especially challenging because it's like speaking French without any sort of mastery, and it's like you don't have these scenes like with people in the sense that you're not really dialoguing with people.

You're sort of monologuing and.

Like, you know, forwarding the plot and invariably, you know, a director would be like, we're gonna do it in one so you would go from like your microscope to like your computer to like some other piece of machinery whilst saying all this like blood, spatterer pattern and you know, like all this crazy stuff. So I trained myself because I knew. I was like, if you can't say the words you're gonna I'm gonna be super short lived. So I would like vacuum my apartment. I would like, you know,

Wow, Yeah, you're right. It is a lot of show and tell.

You're like, the blood's over here, and look what I found here.

I didn't wow, blood here and seamen all under my purview.

Now when you did read Zebras, were you pissed? Did you have like a heads up. What were your thoughts about?

Uh, yeah, it was I you know, because Stucky came on.

I thought he was just this little annoying upstart, but he was you know, it was always designed for him to come in and kill me. But I didn't find out until Zebra's was released and I was doing a play up in Williamstown. It was like an hour before I went on stage and I got the call that they're like, they're going to kill you. And I was like, oh, so, yeah that play was not my best performance. My friends

I know, I can't believe it. No, heads up?

Yeah, it was, yeah, it was.

But you know, look, I think the decision was made in fact, I you know, I know this.

Neil has told me. It was in the beginning of the season.

It was two thousand and eight and there was the financial crisis and they were worried about budgets and so they're like, we need to trim But there were a

That's great advice.

And it's funny, you know.

Watching Zebra's last night I was I was like, it's still and of course I'm biased, but like.

It's still has a really nice look to it.

And I think that was also something that Neil created, like it was very sort of you know, shadowy, contrasty dark. After I was off the show, I was shadowing Peter Leto, who directed, because I direct as well. And it was the episode with Isabell whu Pear and Sharon Stone.

Oh yeah, it was the best.

I mean powerhouses and uh it's an interrogation scene and is All watches the playback and it's at night and she just goes, I need more light. And the DP was like, yeah, I know, it's a night scene, and we played with contrasts. She's like, I need more light, and so they goosed up the light and then when they set the camera she's like she's like motioning for them to raise it a little higher, because you know, she knows, she knows how to photograph herself.

She knows her angles.

You know.

At that point we also always reminisced the Neil barriers.

There was like humor underneath it all too.

There was like a current of funny and yeah we miss it, but away no.

Shit, yeah, I mean there's the uh I mean just in Zebra's that whole.

Bing bang bong thing.

Oh god.

I also had I can tell this because Chris is good friend. But when you were saying about the language, I also had like some motivation, which was, you know, because everybody it's like it's you know, the show. It's fourteen hours a day, sometimes more, and everybody just wants to like, you know, go home. And you know, bloopers are funny on a blooper reel, but when they happen in the moment, it's not funny because it's time, it's money, it's all this, So you know, there's a there's a

What do you so? You said you and Maloney are pals.

What do you make of you know, his his new Zadi status, his butt taking over the internet?

Etca excit zady status.

Yeah, I know, but like you know now, it's on the cover of People magazine.

I've posted this picture you can see in my Instagram. We have a picture of Chris. This is at a party at Marishka's house. He's straddled doing a split and I'm behind him like this with a drink resting on his buttsheet.

I mean, because it's it's you know, it's a shove.

It seems like a stable surface.

Yeah, carry and drink.

So you you guys knew ahead of, ahead of the times that the ass was great, Yeah, before the public.

Yeah, I clocked that pretty early on.

Absolutely well.

It's also fun to hear like sillier stories about Maloney because a lot of people say he's very serious, he's stretching and like Marishka's kind of a silly one and he so it's nice to hear some silly They're.

Both pretty silly, you know.

I think they have to be serious to a point to you know, to produce that show, you know, day after day after day. But like there is definitely there was always a sense of fun and a sense of play and and it was you know, it was a great set to be on.

Really.

So I read that.

I read the New York Times article that they did on you, like twelve thirteen years ago about how you died so many times on screen. Did that lower the number of times that you got killed or because I feel like then, since then, I've seen you die a couple more times.

Yeah, you know, I think that is the fate of like many a guest star that you know, you're expendable.

Uh.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I died when that article was like seven nine something.

At the time of the article, it was seven, but it's got to be up highed now because.

I'm sure I've got a good five on top of that. Yeah, you know, it's funny because like I was thinking, you know, a friend of mine was a is a is a writer at the Times, and I was like, and I was telling him, I was like, oh, I was like, I just found out I'm getting killed again.

He's like, don't you get killed a lot? And I was like, yeah, I guess I do.

He's like there might be a story in that, So he pitched it to one of his one of his co workers, and then they did the story and then there was like a Nightline episode and the CNN thing and now it's sort of that thing that people are like, oh, you're gonna die in this, you know, and like, no, I'm hopefully going to stay alive.

And it was cute how it ended with your mom being like just calling the check if you're okay, like you, she has to keep watching her some die. Mom's do

In Zebras, I think that scene that last big chunk. I think we shot it over three days, which is a long long time. So they would wrap me in like dry cleaner bags to keep the blood wet in between takes and then yeah, because I was laying there for quite a bit of that what was going on even though you know you don't see it in certain shots, but they you know, they always keep you around.

And you would just like bounce to lunch with like wet blood all over yourself and then come back.

Yeah, just another day.

Wow.

Yeah, you're in another hugely iconic, beloved show on this podcast, and that is Sex and the City. Ah, anything you'd like to tell us about your time on set?

That was also an amazing show to be on at that time. I think it was season It was like the third season, so it had you know, it had it's like it was really being celebrated. And I had met Michael Patrick King through some through X actually and and oh god, I was. It was like it was not a great time for me because I was like I had survival jobs that were not the best and

I was like, yeah, oh my gosh.

It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool.

And he's he's amazing and awesome and Slattery is is fantastic.

Who's still a good friend? And yeah we had a great.

You're really popular all these friends.

I don't know about that, but it's so funny because like my cousins in New Jersey who are like, you know, you know, like there, you wouldn't necessarily think, you know, the guys would be watching sex in the city and they're like, Mike, why did you say no?

What was his name?

Willie Garson?

To Willie, it's like, say no, damn. I was like, well, I didn't write it.

You wanted a muscle guy.

Well this might be silly, but yes, Stabler, Benson, munch Finn, who is the Carrie, Miranda, Samantha Charlotte.

I want to play this. This is too hard.

I saw Lisa wrote this question and I was like trying to do it in my head. I was like, who's the sluttiest one? I don't know, Benn, I don't know. I think Munch has been married like six times clubs.

But but who do we want to be the sluttiest? Is the question?

Okay? I like where you're going with the.

Who's the carry? I mean, Marishka has got to be the carry?

Right?

Yeah, that's that's pretty alb. Who's the Charlotte? Let's go back, let's go kind of.

Stabler's a Charlotte because he's so Catholic and he's always like acting like what the rules are and telling Marishka like what's what in terms of like what people what, what kids should be able to do, what women should be able to do and stuff.

I don't know, that's just that's the Catholic.

Oh that's Protestant. I always mess that up. Yeah, I forget that. Yeah, I forget.

One of those Christian ones.

Oh God, that's really hard.

Uh yeah, what if?

Well?

I feel like Munch is like the what's the Cynthia next one?

Miranda?

I feel like that's Munch, and then that gives us Samantha and Charlotte.

Yeah.

I don't feel like I don't feel like Finn is too slutty though, but he's not so innocent either.

But he also has like the good one liners and is like really deadpan the way that Samantha kind of is.

So yes, it's you know, there was one episode I forget what it was, Ice, one of the you know, stalwart episodic directors came up, and you know, it was like, I I think, you know in the scene, you know, you just got the news, you know, and so there's a there's a pressure of time and like.

You know, maybe some more urgency.

And I was like okay, and the director was the way and he says to me, it's like no matter he goes, no matter why it is or how no, no, what do you say, No matter what it is or why.

It is, he goes. I say it the same way. It's so great. Ice is the best.

He's he's he's like such a such a good heart, sweet guy.

And yeah you met Coco. Oh yeah, we heard cocos out a lot on the set.

Yeah, yeah, she was there.

Her mom hung out to Coco's mom who they look like their sisters.

But yeah, I've seen her.

Yeah.

He's got this like viral clip going from like a Late Night show where he when he found out what residuals were, like he thought he was only gonna do SVU for like a season or two, and then he found out what residuals were and he's like, I'm staying here for as long as I can.

Yeah, it's the gift that keeps on giving, it is.

Yeah, I'm very grateful to Neil Bayer for, you know, really changing my life.

You did give us some tidbits, you know, iced tea stay able. Are there are, Maloney, Are there any other like really fun moments with the cast or being on set that stick out to you that you think our listeners or us would be kind of obsessed with.

We have, Like I mean, there's some gag reeal moments like with.

You know, I always felt like I had to you know, like you know, because this is like when you come in for you know, as a guest. You know, you want to not take too much license. But like Mariska would be like she's like a okay, she's like in this. In this you know, there's the one where we sing solid like a rock, but solid like Barack because I think he was just elected two thousand eight, Okay, And

I don't remember.

But then and we had shot it, and like it was clear that we were done shooting the scene, and the director's like, no, no, no.

We need one more. And was like what She's like, why do we need one more? And they gave me her golden globe.

So I was like, well it was it was clearly carried out with this blood instrument, and I just grabbed it. Like there was a There was another one where Peter had to I was on a I don't know what episode it was, but I was on a ladder and I had to reach into a wall niche and like take out something, and they put in black bean.

Dip, No, not black bean dip.

And of course, when you don't know it's black bean dip, you're like, what is this squisky brown material?

You're soaking in it?

I do see the almost love poster behind you. I'm actually in Michelle Buteau's Netflix show and yeah, we were.

Filming last night and I told her that I was going to name drop her.

Oh that's so fantastic. So are you in it? Are you in Atlanta now?

No, we're shooting in Bushwick.

You.

Oh yeah, I didn't know. That's right. The other show that she's on is in yeah, The.

First Wives Club. Yeah, The First Wives is in Atlanta.

Yeah, Oh, congrats, that's so great. I read the pilot.

She sent me the pilot, and I love Michelle more than words can express. And she she is just like a force of nature, so funny and also so big hearted.

And she did. She just is I can't say enough about her.

She's really town she's said really amazing things about you as well, and she loved doing that movie. But sometimes I'll watch it's like she's a really good actress.

It's really cool to watch her.

Yeah, I saw her.

She had a she you know, does the show Adulting, and I went to her live show with Colin Donnell, who plays her love interest in the movie, and she was just talking about, like in the they had a guest on, but they were talking about like body positivity, and she's just like, she's like, you know, She's like, actually, I got to play a part where I had a sex scene and I wasn't the best friend the next day,

Like, Mike, you have a story. Come on up. And I was like, oh no, I was like, no, I'm good. She's like, come on, come up.

And so I told the story on her show and I felt so sort of like, you know, it was it was an honor to be part of it.

Well, are you gonna talk about the first kiss or what?

Yeah, it was.

It was in a It was in a made for TV movie when they used to have m Ow's Movies of the Week.

Oh yes, I saw that on your eye.

It was called on the Plane Road later. A Loss of Innocence is a Mormon tragic love story set in the twenties with nine O two one o's Jenny Garth and Melrose places Rob esties. I'm married to Jenny. We own a dairy farm. My half brother Rob comes into town. He's a piano teacher. He starts teaching my wife piano. They get two clothes. I'm like, what's going on? And we go out on the deer hunt. She forgets to pack my jacket. He shoots me dead.

First death.

Yeah, first death. And uh yeah, so oh so the kiss.

So Jenny and I had to kiss, and I'd never kissed on screen before, and and so I go in for the kiss and they're like kiss, kiss, and she pushes me away and she's like, no town, and the whole crew is like, what.

Did I didn't know?

I want to make it look real. I got it.

Yeah, well, no one teaches these little these things until you're there and you stick your tongue into some way.

Yeah, I mean especially back then there was you know, we didn't have intimacy coordinators because it was the olden days, you know.

So yeah, no one taught me that.

Is a cute story. I like that. I want to watch it.

Well, And you have a new movie, right and is it in post product that you wrote directed and.

Yeah, and your yeah passing through it's called uh yeah, it's it's out.

To festivals now and we'll see. We're waiting to see where it lands.

But I am in it, uh, Amy Ryan, of many many things, isn't it.

She's awesome.

And you like writing directing obviously you like that as much as acting or.

I do, Yeah, I do.

I've got a couple of other things that I'm you know, on various stages of not happening, but you know, eventually they will, you know, everything as you know, moves like at a snail's pace, and then it, you know, takes off. But yeah, I'm trying to direct more actually than I've

Oh that's awesome. You should direct it, gon sp you that's exactly what.

You know. That's Chad Lowe's first directing was I know, yes, now he directs all over the all over the place.

I know he's such a good guy.

Wait, do you.

Want to tell us really about also about the Accidental Wolf? Is what that's like? A oh project that's going on for you?

Yeah?

So The Accidental Wolf was created by Arian Moyett, who is Stewie on Succession.

I thought you were going to say family guy and I was like, no way.

Stewie right, Yeah, he's Stewie and he's an amazing you know, he's nominated for Tony for his work on Broadway.

Years ago.

He had this idea for this thriller series and he's like, here's the pilot script, Kelly.

O'Hara is going to play your wife. You're this couple that gets sort of.

Pulled into what appears to be like a phone scam, but it's actually it's actually a bigger web of intrigue that he was able to raise the money and develop into three seasons with a remarkable cast, like it's Kelly O'Hara and Judith White plays my mom, and Dennis O'Hare and Lorie Metcalf. It's like a who's who, like Arian talk about people, who knows people and like has a

Running for congress and uh, but it's uh.

It's a high stakes, high action, high octane thriller on Topic, which was just one of the new streaming services that I think people will enjoy it. It's like it's very digestible in that like it moves very quickly, very like short sort of chapters that you know that are sort of you know, compel you to press next episode.

Amazing, Yeah, binge able love that. We had a blast talking to you. I feel like we could talk to you for another two hours, but sous talked to you.

It has such a fun walk down memory lane.

Good.

Thank you and thank you for all the tidbits and little moments because we we don't always get those, so thank you for so elsteners.

Are going to love that stuff. So that's awesome. Thank you so much.

Yeah, and the show is great.

I listened to I listened to a couple episodes before I came on, and you know, just so I get a sense and like you have you know, a it's a you have a nice h dynamic and before and like you get your guests to say some great and hopefully not two incriminating things.

Yeah. Do you think we can hang out with him?

Yeah?

It feels I mean we have a mutual friend. It feels like we could. I don't know.

He's so cool, creative, looks amazing for his age, fun, charismatic, No wonder he's so popular, great memory and an overall great guest. Yeah, I mean, well, it's annoying. We can't say he's a cast member because.

He is no full Yeah, you have a cast member, but just not in the let's just say not in the opening pack shot.

Never in the opening shot.

Well, and I'm sure the deal wasn't as good listen as someone that's now a guests are not a recurring there's a difference.

But ah, in our heart he is the cast. What am I even saying? I don't even know anymore? But yeah, well that was it was just a treat.

Yeah, and this episode, listen, I appreciate that s few has been on for twenty four seasons. I think they can drive a little bit off the side of the road sometimes, and that's definitely what this episode is. It's like the wildest, most unhinged twists.

But yeah, I just want to know what Neil Bahar and everyone was thinking of, like, we need a stucky, we need someone to drive, Like, I wonder what the discussion was, what the motivation was to have someone so annoying and incompetent and an evil break like and why they really wanted to kill someone because it was the season finale, so they really wanted to end with a bang, Like I wonder if there was a lot of discussion. It's just it's interesting how they decided to irk all the detectives.

Was Stucky, Yes, Yeah, how they brought in this like truly cartoonish character and then made him not only the wildest like attitude in person, but then also made him a murderer and a full psychopath. But I guess, you know, he's an example of of what happens when you bully someone too much. I suppose everybody, Uh, just be a little kinder to the Stucky in your life or they'll probably kill you.

Yeah.

But he was unwilling to learn either, because it was like he was rude in other episodes and Sailor kept trying to help him, like, yeah, can you not make fun of the baby in the shallow grave please, like stop hitting her with the shovel.

Yeah, and then he.

Does it again and it's like, ah, the camera's bullshit. You know, It's like he keeps not learning because if he was annoying but was like got it boss and changed or.

Yeah, he doesn't have the sensitivity chip.

You know how Jennifer Aniston used to say Brad Pitt was like missing a sensitivity chip or something like that. I think that's what Stucky's missing as well, doesn't have it.

I forgot about that. That wasn't that was a big pop culture, big moment. That was a huge moment that he fucking left her. I bet he regrets it. Well, no, because now he has all these kids. I'm sure he really loves but I bet he regrets what he did to Aniston now that he's like, yeah, an alcoholic with terrible tattoos.

You know, who's like in a lawsuit with his wife over their vineyard. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don't know what other post mortem like takeaways we have from this episode, because it is so I guess know.

Your friends know your friends, and if someone says they're eating something they shouldn't be eating, you call the authorities if someone's not there or answering. Yeah, but that happened once where you weren't answering any calls or texts, and I don't think Jared was either, And I got into my car to drive to your house, and then finally Jared's like, she's sleeping and I went, okay, well that's fine, but it just doesn't make sense to what her person. So I got in my car to go to your house.

I love it you were gonna face off against my stucky.

Kind of well, because you know, if I slept in it would be a little different. But for you because it was also in the afternoon, so you would have but you were sick, you had COVID or something. Yeah, it made sense. But once finally Jared was able to respond. But in that moment, I was like, something, something's up. That's so funny. I was calling Lauren. I was like, do you know what's going on? And you were just like sleeping, which is a normal human activity.

Everyone deserves rest. I just it was not.

I am usually quite responsive and I'm usually never sleeping, and I usually have COVID too, So yeah, it's it was a weird combo.

But yeah, also, I mean, I don't know. This episode did have a lot of like there was like some you know, there was a lot about mental illness that that is really it brought a lot of that to light.

That was Oh, it's scary.

And sad, and this is a controversial take, so you know, but you know a lot of the people commenting about Kanye is very much like mental health issues do not make you anti black and anti Semitic and and you know, miss agist or whatever. But then it's like if you are suffering from schizophrenia, it might make you those things, like you might if you can think aliens are after you or you know, satellites are following your every move?

Is that that big of a leap? And are we not?

Yeah?

Like why would that be?

So if you think exactly if I agree with you, actually, I think if you can think that aliens are following people are following you, then why could you not think that the Jews control the government? Like these are these are tidbits you've read somewhere on the internet by people that are anti Semitic, and now you're like manifesting they're being manifested like into your mental illness. I feel like I don't know, I don't know. It's the Kanye thing

Is the problem?

Yes, that's the thing. It's like stop letting him on your shows. For each Yeah, guys like put you know, he needs like a seventy two hour psychhold or something.

Yeah.

But and I also understand the position of like people that stuff for mental illness, being like, don't lump me in with that guy, like I don't become racist.

You can't say that, sure that.

I'm also like, yeah, but you can't say it can't lead to this, like who fucking knows?

I don't. I don't know, well, right, I don't think.

We're saying like yeah, because I don't think anyone's saying all mentally like mental illness is anything from like you know, isn't it anything from like depression all the way to like complete disassociative fugue states. I mean, like it's a spectrum. So it's like, no, we're not. No one's trying to

It, Whereas I with you or someone else that we were talking about, someone that ended up having Alzheimer's or a stroke, and after the stroke they just couldn't keep their inner thoughts in her anymore.

Me Me, I have a family friend who had a stroke, and like, after he had a stroke, he just started saying everything he thought like no small, like any small fleeting thought that you'd be like, wow, thank god, no one can get into my mind. He was just pushing them all out. So yeah, and that's from a stroke, you know. I mean, like, I don't know things happen. The brain is a complex thing.

Yeah.

I just stopped fucking with him years ago. Yeah, I guess the people that are newly distraught, it's like weird gi he was before, he was antimic, antisemitic, he was like a narcissist asshole, Like I haven't liked him for a long time. Yeah, yeah, but you know whatever.

But yes, we're giving him a platform now, yeah, we're giving let's go.

But this leads us right into Sister Peg or what would Sister Peg do? Segment, which you guys know is every week we try to give you guys an organization, a book, an article, a podcast, something to help you know inform more of what we talked about in today's episode, and this week we would like to point you towards the Treatment Advocacy Center, who's stated is to quote eliminate barriers to the treatment of mental illness, and the organization

Thank you so much for that.

And next week, our first time ever, we're doing a doubleheader, double episodes.

You gotta us double the homework, guys, schedule it out. It's the holidays, You're gonna have some extra time.

Yeah.

Season seventeen, episodes twenty two and twenty three, intersecting lives and heartfelt passages, enjoy and feel sad, have fun, guys. I that's messed up as an Exactly Right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.

Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.

And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.

Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

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