Underbelly w/ Charlotte Ray Rosenberg

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories.

Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, a SVU podcast.

I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU True crime. We have guests. I would say we're kind of like James Lipton towards the end of the pod, really doing a deep dive.

When you get to heaven. What would you like to hear God say? Wait, you know what we should talk about. Is it finally happened. Law and Order SVU finally hired a female showrunner.

Yeah. Yeah, we posted this on our Instagra.

I know at this point it's like a couple weeks later that we haven't talked about it on the actual pod. We posted on our Instagram like the day after we found out. But it's exciting because not only is she like a random female showrunner, she just was on like the early seasons, Like she worked on seasons three, four, five, six, seven, Like she's running.

Get to the old air.

Okay, Yeah, she's from the Golden Age baby, and I kind of love that, and you know, people love she's queer.

People are loving that. I just think it's like it's time.

You know, we've had please, yes, so many men running the show, and they've you know, they've given us some glorious stuff. But let's get Let's get a lady at the helm and no more most powerful lifeguards anymore. You know, let's get some Let's go back to like the days of just random shit happening to just New Yorkers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

We're a Housewives episode, for the love of god. Why won't they do it? Maybe it's because it's an NBC universal thing.

Right, Like what I mean, what would happen? Like one housewife kills another one?

I love it.

No, it would be kind of I bet it would be like an Erica and Tom and then she'd be like, I've been being abused. I didn't do any of it and I was forced to do it. Would be maybe the twist I'm seeing. Yeah, or gentshaw Than is like, well, I'll tell you what if you let me, if you let please plead me out, I'll let you know. The guy in charge and he's like a trafficker or something. I don't know.

For being so demanding, I should have better ideas.

Judge Josh just just doing her thing, jun John just doing elder abuse.

And then they get her or there's like a twist where they go to some like slums and they realize the Chase own it, and that's how they get caught with all of their stuff.

They go to they go to Bougie Kids and they find out that all the kids have been modeling, and then they haven't signed any of the contracts and they're being overworked.

Wait, did have you seen the trailer for the Next Generation?

No?

I saw the just the instagram.

I'm excited. It looks fun.

It's just like basically a reality show of young people living in New York.

Yeah, but four of them are housewife like children. I saw his mare and his son. Who else is it?

Gia Teresa's daughter okay, and then Riley Candy's daughter.

Okay. Her name's Riley, right, Yeah, yeah, her name's Riley.

But Riley never speaks.

So I'm excited to see how this Riley literally is the most monotone person I've ever seen on television.

So we'll see what happens.

And then ari Arianna Arianna Beerman. Yeah, so Kim Kim Kim's Olia's daughter. Yeah, and she seems kind of funny. But you know, I just really I have a tough time with like young young people getting plastic surgery and yeah, like I'm trying to think of Like I saw the Instagram and I didn't recognize all those faces, do you know what I mean? I only recognized Brooks like Ariana's front and center in the photo, and I did not recognize her.

Well, well, I also just see her as like a child's with pigtails for cheerleading. You know. So I haven't thought about her in a while, but I'm excited and I will be watching. Yeah, but it is all the mouse monotone kids, because brooksmarks is also monotone.

Gotcha.

I feel like I gotta watch the trailer. I haven't watched it. But it's silly.

I mean, it's like young twenty rich Yeah, people living in New York. I'm excited.

It's just it's gonna be some summer fun. Nuts for sure.

Love it.

Yeah, it's so fast. Oh wait did you see You probably did?

But like, uh, I see was in some Adidas commercial where the first thing he says is that's messed up.

Okay, I saw, well we posted about it on the this thing, so I saw that, but uh, wait, what's going on?

I mean within a month.

Yeah, I'm I wonder if he's like, hey, I'm doing an ad you gotta put this in.

It had just been like a few years since he'd even said it on the show, Like I know, more than a few. I think it's been a long time. They like purposely stopped. I mean, sure, are they communicating with us? Yeah, I don't know what you want for he subconsciously telling he's uh yeah, he's telepathically telling us he wants to be on the pod.

Oh so I did do the Petting Zoos stand up show? Oh yes, tell us? How was that? It was amazing? So I got there and I no one had picked chinchilla.

Well.

I walked in into this one comic had two snakes on her body, so that was tough for me to be around. But I got to meet a beard a dragon and hold him and his her I apologize. Her name was Sydney, and then I got to have like a parrot on me and his name was Signior and that was exciting. But then for the show there was also like a weird creepy lizard, the snakes, a tortoise, and a dove. But I did go with the chinchillas

So cute.

Yeah, I have something to bring up actually, and then and I hope I'm scared that who I'm about to talk about listens, But I don't care. Did I already talk about this this group dinner? Did I talk about this group dinner? I went to a group Okay, I went to a group dinner. And it's one of those places with like a lazy Susan in the middle of the table. So all the food's on the table and there's a communal dish of like I wouldn't have eaten it. But let's say, like a bushroom a long mushroom salad,

What the fuck are you doing?

Yeah?

What are you doing?

Did anybody say anything?

I was?

I was the last minute and these are not my people.

Oh you're not not not your circus, not your monkeys. That's fucking crazy. I'm just talking about it on that that's so I've never seen anything like that's so crazy. Yeah, oh my god, Ill, that's really feld in a big group dinner.

Oh yuck, yuck, Oh my god.

I can't eat anything today, so this dinner talk is making me hungry.

I am.

I'm prepping for a colonoscopy tomorrow, and wow, it's not gonna be fun day for me.

I have to I'm not getting knocked out on drugs as fun Tomorrow.

I get knocked out on the drugs today.

I have to literally drink a full gate, like four gallons of a potion that's gonna make me die.

So I'm not.

Really that pumped. But I also can't eat anything all day, so I'm gonna feel light as a feather tomorrow. We're in the time machine a little bit. This episode's coming out before after right after the finale of drag Races, so if you watch drag Race, you already know who wins. But I'm still shook but happy with how the last elimination went. I was done. I was done with Susie too. I needed her to I needed her to Charleston right off the stage.

I was done.

I liked her.

I thought she was talented, she was good at some of the first stuff, but like, would I go pay money to go see a Susie two show?

Not really? No, And you know, she's young, and I think she's like seeing her errors, like I think watching it the interviews and stuff I've seen, and she seems pretty like self aware of I just have, but I just it really irks me. Sasha Valor did this too. I just hate queens who think they are smarter and better than other queens because they're pretentious. Yeah, none of you are smarter and more cerebral than like a lot of these fucking queens. So I don't like that attitude

Come in various different ways, Like there's different your references. Just because you have references to things doesn't make you the smartest person you know.

No, And it's also your willingness to like grow, change, like take notes like she does it.

She could take a note to save her life. I know, And but I was surprised.

I have not seen on the show in a very long time, and I'm trying to even struggle to think of when there has been somebody who's been doing so so so well, and then at right before the finale they get cut, Like I haven't seen that in a while.

Yeah, you're right, you know, like someone who has that many wins.

And is like but then it's like you self are saying that you're dominating this competition, like.

Come on, girl, Like well no, and you know, like Bob and Bunett I feel or like whatever.

YouTube by watch it was.

Like everyone keeps being like, oh my god, Susie's the front runner, and it's like Anna nervous.

Anya is the front runner.

I want viar, but it's like she's it's not even our opinion. She's won four or five challenges, she's at the top. She only lipsticked once, and like it was yeah, Naomi Small's had a really good opinion on that. On your Race Chaser, she was like, you used to have to make your twins outfit. Now people just bring something, you know, the coats like, and they help bring it.

Yeah, it works.

And it's like they focus too much on that because even without the coat, like those dresses that aren't, it's like such a detachment from everything else she's done, which is like really like black culture vibes. So like, yeah, while you're while the twin, But I guess you don't know who you're gonna be making over.

I don't know. I just I liked it that you have you used to have to make.

Those and that she said yeah to better creativity instead of like this will work.

Yeah.

I also think Jewels Sparkles has kind of come from behind yeap o fun.

She had an air of fun. She was good and competitive, but didn't take it like seriously. It's it's been fun.

And I don't think I went back into my into the thing. I was googling last night. I was like, I don't know if a Latina has ever won Wow, so Jewels could be up there too.

I don't think Sam will win.

And Sam did also have outerwear and did lose the lip sync for me, so I don't know.

I yeah, that was crazy.

I'm happy to see Susie go Sam is more entertaining to watch for me. Yeah, but if we're talking like Susie had a better runway had a better lipsync, I.

Do kind of feel like it's between I do like Lexi a lot, but I sort of feel like it's between uh Anya and Jewels.

For the family loses, it's her fault, like it's oddious to lose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll see what happens. But she's already one. Hopefully she goes for being a cook, so being you know, a performer, full time performer.

Yeah, I've got to watch.

I'm gonna have to watch just on TV because apparently Sarah Sota, Florida does not have a gay scene. Everyone's telling me I got to drive to Tampa or Saint Pete Beach and I simply don't have time to do that. But I will be watching, and I can't wait to see what happens.

Yeah, good TV, Good TV. You know, I'm soaking it all in until the drought of the summer.

All right, should we get started? I think so let's kick it off. You guys know what's up that's messed up. Live has all of the links that you need. Lisa's tour dates merch. You know, you could leave us a review whatever you feel like doing. All of our promo codes are there. If you're in the market for some shit and you want to use our promo codes, go for it.

Let's go.

Okay, we are doing the episode Underbelly from season eight. It's episode seven. This baby came out in two thousand and six. This is an episode that I've seen, like, it's just one of the ones I think of is I've seen the most times, Like I've seen it so many times, and this like the girl in it, like everybody, and I'm like, oh, yeah, Like I don't know. It's just I wouldn't say it's like a favorite or anything because it's obviously very dark, but I've just seen it a lot, so I knew.

And not to give it much away, it's the tattoos. Like the tattoo is definitely the calling card of this episode, but I don't seen it in forever.

Are these storylines make me sad? I know, I know it's awful, but you know, but I do.

Love the time too, of just a night A nice one word episode title.

Yes, Underbelly the underbelly of the Beasts. So this episode starts it's nighttime where probably like on the west Side Highway area where boats are, but we could be on these river too. I guess a bunch of drunk teens are getting off a boat. It's probably like their prom or something or homecoming, I don't know. They are wearing suits or tuxedos. And one guy's like that party sucked,

And this girl is fourteen years old?

Tops Melinda says cause of death is the old BFT blunt force trauma.

Beck is with Stabler. I forgot it's a beckup.

I it just like it sucks because do I love Connie Nielsen Shore the moment I see this bitch, I'm pissed.

I'm like, Matt, Yeah, And this is the episod.

This is like an episode of Complicated Feelings.

Does a good job.

I just like I the hate I have for Beck is insane. I know.

I feel like that's probably why I don't watch this episode. To be honest, I that's true. I mean, I it's funny. I think of this as like an old school episode I guess season eight, but like, yeah, it is a Beck but.

Yeah it's wild.

And she asks like, oh, did the girl fall off the boat? But Melinda's like, well, she's been in the river at least two weeks. The cold water has kept her like very preserved, like she has not decomposed a lot depending on the current. We just did an episode about currents and bodies being found in water. But depending on the current, she could have really been dumped anywhere in the Five boroughs because if she's been floating around for two weeks, like you know, it's sort of wild

It's a dog paprint. It's very blues clues.

And she's the third rape homicide victim with that tattoo in six months. The other two they're like, why have we heard about this? And it's because the other two were not in Manhattan. Sandra Garner sixteen, a runaway from Wichitah, was jumped dumped in a junkyard in the South Bronx. And then another victim is still unidentified. Her body was found in the weeds by Newtown Creek, which I had to google and it like runs along the Brooklyn Queen's border.

Put it on a tramp stamp, like so crazy.

I think he just wants to show up that he like knows that Yale are bulldogs and he knows like their fight song. Anyway, Finn suggests maybe a tattoo artist could recognize the style. Shockingly, Beck has a tattoo hookup. She's like, we should talk to Miguel Alvarez. He does

So maybe it's in a sexy place.

But now we're talking to Miguel and we're at his studio and he's like, this is my work, referencing.

This woman who's getting a full back.

Piece of a tiger on her back, and he's like insulted. He's like, you know, if you show me the Mona Lisa, I can tell you it's Da Vinci.

But like you're asking if you drew a stick figure.

This story line, this little side quest is the craziest thing ever. It's one of the worst tattoos ever, the most simple. And they are going that tiger that they walk in on that's like a multi day it was.

It's like, ah, this was so silly to me.

This was a Philly is When they go, I have a friend at this exact department that owes me a favor, you know, I just write it bothers me.

And he's like this guy's like insulted. He's like, anyone could do this, dippy little pot print, Like what the fuck are you talking about? And then he's like They're like they see a sign or something that says like, you know, must provide ID, and they're like, oh, do you ever tattoo anyone underage? And he's like again, I'm a fucking artist, like I don't do that. I get ID, I keep it on file. But he of course does know of this one guy in Brooklyn. He knows his

A Bart Simpson moment. This is from early Simpsons.

I can't believe they did this, And I wonder if there was a Simpsons.

Why does Bart get a tattoo and he has he fakes a note.

No, it's not about the note, it's like the heart and it's Emma like mo, well he has moth and mother isn't finished.

When Marge grabs him. It's it ends up being a heart that says.

Moth, and they have to spend like their savings getting it removed. But this it was supposed to be mom, and they made him go home at moh gotcha?

Oh my god, that like straight out of Assassins.

Well, I mean I one time added my name to a friend's mom's note to get a second ear piercing. So I've never actually forged the note, but I've put my name in and pretended I was someone's sister. I let that whole close up very quickly. It was all for not But Lenny is like, yeah, here's the boy's note, and Stabler's like, uh, Dicky did a better job forging my signature when he was eight, so this is actually

Did all their tattoos.

It's just funny to me that this professional man in Manhattan knew exactly who in Brooklyn would do this, Like it's a I mean, I know, it's a TV show. We got to get from A to B, but it's like wild. He's like, all right, I did them, but they told me they were eighteen. They told me they

Like well, because on this podcast, we do take a stance that reuniting is the top goal, but not when you meet this bitch, not when.

I was gonna say that exact same thing, Like.

This is one of the worst. This is one of the Yeah, I mean I want to strangle this woman. And I don't know how the detectives did because the kids were probably there. I'm like, I don't know how they didn't try to fuck with her.

Yeah, Like I'm a my work in cos sets like we always are are working towards reunification. This woman would not have passed a like a check, I don't think, but maybe she was, you know, faking it to try to get her back. And it's really sad this story, Like this poor foster mom is like I wanted to fight with her, but my lawyer basically told me, like I it was no use, like the bio parents have rights,

She was trouble.

I told her she told her school that my boyfriend was touching on her and ACS wanted to kick wanted me to kick him out, and I wasn't going to kick him out, and like, it's so crazy, how bad this woman is. The story gets interrupted by Stabler, who heroically saves the song, and as he's about to scoot into traffic, the mom doesn't even flinch, like they specifically go to her reaction and she's like, what's up, Like

But you know, what are you gonna do? You can't win them all.

At the group home, there is a man telling them that Chantel vayner a wald a few weeks after she got there, which is you know, a military term absent without leaving. But it's like anytime kids leave their group homes, it's a walling. They can be gone for four hours. They can be gone for five weeks, you know, and a lot of time that like I've talked about this before, but a lot of times that's what adds to like the nickmic when they have like the like the number

You know how it is?

Why don't you tell me how it is?

Boys come by, we kick it outside, Chantelle ever kick it with anyone? You know, he's trying to be a hip Stabler and I always enjoy that her and this other girl are telling them about Victor. He's this guy with a tricked out suv. He'd buy Chantelle chips and soda. Another girl is continuing the story. He's like, oh, yeah, he wanted her to run off with him. He said he'd buy her anything she wanted, clothes, jewelry, but she told Chantale to trust him because they're all the same.

I guess it's not a Snoopy support group.

Yeah, and like, but they're definitely trying to always get it on our heads that like this job is too much for Beck, like she can't. She takes every case so fucking personally, and this is her second to last episode. But Beck's like, I just can't sleep right now, knowing that some like child sex workers get about to get beaten to death by a psycho John and Stablers are like, well, like this will help you sleep.

Do you know how many Sean tall's there are?

And like she's like we should just get out there, we should go, like go figure it out. And Stable's like, where where should we go? Did you check with Vice about where the baby hooker stroll? He asks her, and he's like, well, I did the legwork, so I know where they are. And the main area for like the younger sex workers is East New York, which is a neighborhood in Brooklyn. It's kind of out by JFK, like where you rent a car Howard Beach. And he says, I talked to Vice and we set up a sting

And Beck is like itching.

To get out of the car and question these girls, but Stabler is like hold tight, like you gotta find the killer. But she's like a dumb bitch who always jumps the gun. So she starts to get out, and Stabler alerts with other units, and I guess the whole sting is just he moved it up to.

Tonight because that's what Beck wanted.

I thought maybe they were just going off to do their own thing, but no, it's a whole group of people vices.

There.

A bunch of cop callers roll up on these girls, their sirens blazing. They make all the girls stand up against the wall. They flash them pictures of the tattoo girls from the photos, and none of them are saying anything like none of them Nope, sorry, don't know her,

They got they got adopted.

So now we've got Belinda in I don't even know if we're in wood room blinds because there are no lights on, like it is simply the lights are turned off.

It's the darkest room of all time.

There's like a flashlight on this girl practically, and she's arguing with them about the girls being dead, and they're like, the girls are dead and she's like, you cops are so dumb and you're lying to me. And Beck's like, okay, cool, fine, you want to see the autopsy photos. So you know, she's done being sensitive to this girl at all, even though ten minutes ago she was like I can't sleep knowing these baby sex workers, and now she's like, you want to see your dead friends and she slaps the

I love him and.

We're getting married when I'm old enough. Yikes. It's sad. But she, you know, she's in another episode. I'm mis understanding. She comes back. She's just like, I don't know, I love Belinda. Wait when she comes back, it's she's Belinda again. No, no, just like this girl's face. But no, her name is Abby Stewart. In the next one, Oh okay, okay, okay. I was like, but she takes to stand. It's like another big episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So she looks

She's like, I've watched the DVD so many times.

It's like, wow, I never really thought that Pretty Woman was going to be like the kind of movie that influenced a younger generation to want what's in that movie?

You know?

But there we are, there we have it.

I'm like, it doesn't look great when George from Seinfeld is trying to attack her, but anyway, she goes, yeah, this rich guy comes and he picks a girl and if he likes Sree takes her away to live with him. I dated him once, but he didn't pick me. And Stabler asks, oh, well does this guy hit you and she goes, well, he spanked me, but like a lot of guys are into that. And then suddenly Beck that softens Beck up. She's like, I'm gonna give her my jacket.

That's like a I think that's like an interesting creative choice because it shows how fucking young she is. Yes, yes, absolutely, but she thinks that's like an ancient old man.

Yeah.

And she she.

Looks fifteen to me.

I mean she's so young looking, this girl, like they got the perfect actress for this.

She just has like a baby face.

So he's a managing partner at a white shoe law firm, this guy, Blake Peters, and he has a bunch of domestic violence complaints from his ex wife, but they were all dismissed with anger management courses or whatever. And Finn Goes always knew those were a croc. It's like, thank you, finn. I don't think anger management maybe the first time. If there's multiple, like domestic violence things, you have to go to jail for a little bit.

Sorry.

It's also annoying because, and we've mentioned this before, it's like I wonder why they'll get violent at work?

Yeah, you know friends.

Yeah, it's like weird that it's such a you know, you need a it's anger management. Yet you know how to manage it perfectly at your home, right, at your job. You never punch a judge. You're a lawyer.

You never punch a judge in the face. Right, But a woman, no problem. Your wife got it. So they pull up a bunch of articles on this guy. He likes tennis, polo, water sports, Like, we get it. He's rich and he's remarried from the wife that he used to beat and now his new wife looks barely legal, they say. So they shot to the apartment and this woman answers the door and she's like, did something happen

So, but this time he struck out.

This white shoe associate not having it, does not want to bond with Finn his loss.

So yeah, yeah.

Finn calls Stabler and is like, yo, we're struck striking out at his work, Like we don't know where this guy is. Beck looks up his credit card and is like, all right, well let's find out where he's been charging.

Right? Yes?

She is an the episode, she's Candy, but she's played by Constance Wu and this is one of her first gigs. You know, it's twenty, it's two thousand and six. She this is like literally at the bottom of her IMDb so's I don't.

Know, it's just because I know when I think about guest stars, her face doesn't come to my brain.

Yeah.

I don't really think of her as like an SVU moment, but a fun one.

Yeah, yeah, a fun stuff role. Yeah.

And I can't really tell it's a confusing role because she's saying, I'm nineteen. I swear I go to Manhattan Tech. I work at a restaurant and that's where I met Blake. She's like, I saw he had a wedding ring on, but I wanted to party. It's no big deal. And Beck's like it was to the girls he killed. So

So she also is like in school and has another day job, like it seems like she's doing it all.

Yeah, yeah, she's really she's really trying to get through Manhattan Tech, you know. But now we cut to Blake telling Stabler I didn't kill anyone, and they're like, oh, what's up with your knuckles, like because they had said, like Melinda had said earlier, like look for this guy to have like really fucked up knuckles because he's beating these girls to death, like with his fists. So the guy goes, well, no, I do a lot of work

But Stabler starts laying into.

Him on like like oh, yeah, you just pick up underage sex workers and then you beat the shit out of them or whatever. And he's like, no, I don't hurt these girls and they love it, and Stabler's like, yeah, you're paying them, dumb ass. They're gonna say that they love whatever you want them to say. And then Stabler shows Peter's the autopsy pictures and he's painting the pictures Stabler style, like this is what you do. You use them and then you beat them and throw them away.

Guy did any puked.

You know, they never think like if you piss your pants or you puke, they think you're innocent.

So who should walk in?

While Stabler is talking to Peters, but Benson comes strolling into the precinct. She looks beautiful scub bangs and she finds Danny Beck sitting at her desk right across from Stabler, and she's like, I'm looking for Detective Stabler. And Beck's like, he's an interrogation. Maybe I can help you. I'm his partner, Danny Beck. It's it's interesting to be that Beck wouldn't know like what live looks like, like there's no pictures.

Of her anywhere.

I don't know anyway. Benson is not even interested to Google. Yeah, yeah, you didn't google, or you didn't look up one article, because like we're people.

They go in two.

Thousand and eight, when did Google? Really?

When did the verb question?

I don't know what? And embarrassed for me?

Where we ask jeeves ing? Where we ask Jeevesing? In two thousand and six, still like what were we doing?

We were binging? Also people were trying to.

Yeah.

So Benson looks a little bit shook when she hears the words i'm his partner, and she goes, I'm just gonna go talk to Daddy Craigan, and you could see Beck is still not kind of like, wait, how does this woman know everybody at the precinct? Like she's not really inquisitive here, and she is a detective.

So it's weird.

So just to place you in time, this is the episode right after Benson's stint undercover as persephone James, the episode Infiltrated, which we've covered, where she goes undercover with an Eco terrorism unit and she walks into Craigan's office and he's like, whoa live, You're back, Like nobody told me. I don't have a spot for you. And Benson's like, yeah, yeah,

To take some time.

And meanwhile, Benson's like staring Daggers through the window, watching Elliott put his hand on Beck's shoulder and the two of them being very flirty. Like the body language between them is very different than his body language would live.

He never came up to Libya while she was at her.

Desk looking at a file and like put his hands on her shoulders. You know, Like, well, he's on a break with his wife at the moment too. That's true, that's true as well. Yes, yes, let's be clear about not like cheating, right, but he's even when he's on a break with his wife in later episodes with Benson, he's not that the flirty. The flirtiness is different than

And Stabler's like, I don't know.

Maybe they wanted to leave with Blake Peters and Victor couldn't let that happen. If you lose control of your stable, you're out of business. And Stabler like the way he's talking to her, he's like soft talking to her. He's not talking in a regular voice. He's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know, it could be it could be this. Like he's just really like talking to her in such a quiet like, hey, I can actually be really gentle

I feel like, she goes, what are you stupid? Why are you working for this pimp?

Like she doesn't like always take it from like the same soft Olivia way. So anyway, Belinda's telling Danny how Victor doesn't like the girls to ever talk about his business. He gets mad and hits them sometimes if they don't work hard enough. One time, she says, Monique got this big tip and wanted to keep some of the money for a new dress, but Victor found out that he was holding she was holding out on him and be up so bad that she couldn't work for a week.

And she asked if she can.

Keep the photo of the girls that they've been using, you know, of them with their tattoos, because she doesn't have any pictures of them. She's like, I always ask Victor if I could go see the girls after they got adopted, but he told me that they were uptown girls now and they didn't want to see her, and that I would embarrass them in front of their new

And she's like, precious Olivia, like, why are you jealous of this woman? You didn't even have enough care to google it. You said, yeah, it's weird, it's weird to take this out on her hate I hate it. R Yeah, it's so Reelson, what the fuck I know? And then he's like, I know you're a good cop. I wasn't trying to spy on you. I want to introduce you to someone. This is Sister Peg.

She runs an outreach program for hookers his words, and Sister Peg goes sex workers Elliott, which I do feel like two thousand and six, that's early, Like this is season eight, Like that's early with Sister Peg using the right terminology because they keep going on and using hookers. They keep going on using other language on this show for quite a while before they start using sex worker regularly.

So they send Sister Peg in.

To talk to her, and Beck goes, okay, meanwhile, you and I can go pick up Victor.

Belinda gave me an address.

She said that he like, you know, he's got this woman named Venice who owns the house where Belinda lives, and every night Victor waits there to collect all the girls money. So now they're at Venice's house and they're banging on the door and she's like I'm coming, I'm getting my clothes on. It's like stalling or whatever, and she's like, do you have a warrant? They do not show one. They barge right past her. She did ask for a warrant, but they just are like out of

This is actually one of my favorite this scene is that's one of my favorites ever. And I think about it all the time.

Best moments.

And I wasn't sure it was Underbelly, but as soon as I saw Venice, I go, oh, my god.

The guy. I love this.

You're right, I'd never remember and now I'll remember forever what episode it is.

Yeah, Like I always I'm like, because we've tried to find other pimps before you know, but this is the one where so basically they're like, what the fuck is going on?

I won't this bitch sit on the couch.

And earlier she said something like don't mess up my couch because they started looking for weapons underneath the gu like, so we're like, why are you making such gon deal about the couch girl.

So they realize something's up.

They open up the sofa bed, unroll the sofa bed, and who is wrapped up inside Victor okay, and it is Michael K. Williams, who is well known for playing Omar on the Wire and he's been in tons of other things, an award winning actor who sadly and tragically died in twenty twenty one after using heroin that was

I was like a Golden glove boxer or whatever.

And he basically is laughing in Stabler's face, going, I'm about to walk up out of here. I'm gonna be in the dr watching my girl splash around in a pool, drinking a Kuba libre and smoking a koheba. And for some reason, this little speech has been in my head for decades, Like I have literally had this speech in my head forever about drinking a kuba libre and smoking a koheba in the dr, like I always remember this

So the two of these they're sparring.

This is probably Stabler's favorite kind of guy that he likes to have a little back and forth with. So now we're back with Beck and Belinda and sister Peg and they need Belinda to sign a statement against Victor and she's like, but he never did anything to me, like I wanted to do all that stuff. And they're like, yeah, but baby, did you have sex for money and then give it to Victor? And she's like yeah, and they're like that's a crime, unfortunately, so you know, like sadly,

This is the monologue that lives in my head. Oh yeah, like she's yeah, I just I love the library, my.

Mom blobbed out in front of the TV watching her stories. Yeah, and then she goes like they go, well, there are good foster parents, and Belinda's like hard passed, like no one has ever taken care of me except for Victor. He is my daddy. And sister Peg is like, well, do you want to stay with me? And Belinda is skeptical because She's like, I know how the system works. I can't just like live wherever I want. Sister Peg is like, well, actually, I'm a nun, so I only

He loves me.

And it is like, I think this episode also really just like convinced me how fucking brainwashed these girls are a lot of the time. Like even if like a guy is like hurting them or killing their friends and has you in a life of servitude, basically you're like, no, no, he loves me, Like like nothing can get that out of your head, you know. And obviously they know who

And we know what comes next. Yeah. I don't know if any child has ever been sent to Sister Peg and not brutally brought outside.

Like has it ever worked out?

Sister Peg needs mace, she needs a taser, she needs mace, she needs a security guard, she needs something.

At that place, it like does not work.

He is attacked every single time someone has a slumber party there.

Basically, the criminals are like, she's with the nun and they're like, oh easy, I'll be right there. You know, they just going so we basically she agrees, Blinda agrees to sign the shit and she's gonna go live with Sister Peg. So now we're at arraignment and it's Casey Novak up against victor's attorney Hashi Horowitz. Okay, a classic victor plea not guilty, And Novak's like, I want big bail.

She just says high bail. She doesn't even like name a number.

I would say, he literally joked to our detectives about leaving the country. I would say, we he's remanded, you know, and or he has to release surrender his passport. And Hashi goes, that's just a prejuador, the prejudice the jury. And Novak's like, he pimped out a fourteen year old girl. And Hashi Horowitz is like, oh, well, why hasn't she been arrested? Then that's a crime. And Novak goes, she's

You know he kind of, you know, Michael K.

Williams looks a little bit like he got got for a second there, Victor. And Casey tells Stabler and Beck that pimping out a kid is a seafi. If I convict him, you've got fifteen years to build your murder case. And they're like okay, and Beck's like, I'm too keyed up to go home.

Anyone want to go get a drink?

So now Staylor, Beck, and Novak are at the bar and Stabler is like fawning over how good Beck was with Belinda, and It's like, you know, it's like dog, she's not even on Benson's level, like you're just separated in horny, Like why are you like complimenting her so hard on like how.

She's treating this girl.

And Beck's like no, no, and Stabler's like, see, she can't even take a couple of men, and Novak goes, it's probably because you never give them, like you've never said a nice thing to me in my life. And then she goes, and then Stagler goes, but that's why I like you. You know, no one wants a sensitive man. It's like, okay, no, back. I don't think that's true either, but you know it's for her purposes as having a detective.

So she leaves.

Plus she can probably feel that she's third wheeling hard because these two are like quietly giving each other compliments over a beer. And so she leaves Stabler and Beck alone, and Beck's like, I gotta get going, and he's like, well, you left your car back at the station, babe. And he's like, I'll drive you. And she's like, no, no, I'll take a cab. And he's like, it's fine, my car's right up back, I'll take you.

Okay.

They get to his car, which it looks like it's a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top.

Have we seen that before? We know that was his car.

We've seen him once driving with Kathleen when they saw the Once he was driving with either Kathleen or Marino Kathleen, and they saw the fire, remember they saw like a they saw like a car on fire on the side of the road or whatever.

They stop to help him.

We've seen Stabler in a car a few times and I'm like, you have a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top, or you a sixteen year old at my high school.

But also, how do the kids fit in there?

What kind of car for a family of six?

Is that?

Also, it's like New York City, anyone with a knife can like break into the soft top, Like it makes no sense.

I didn't even notice that.

But it's like it feels like classic, Like he just feels like a cool guy, like probably from his lifeguard days in Astoria, like driving a soft hop up. So he opens the door for Beck and then as she's about to get in, he just grabs her and pulls her in for a kiss.

It's kind of out of the blue.

You'd think he'd like wait for a sign or like a little bit more consent, but she kisses him back and they start to make out, and then one of their phones rings and they silence it, and then a pager beeps and they ignore it, and then another pager beeps and they're like.

Okay, maybe if we're both getting paid.

Something's going on and they look down and it's a nine to one to one they both have from Kraigan.

So Stabler calls him and it's bad news.

Obviously, Sister Peg was attacked and she's in the hospital. Sister Peg cannot catch a fucking break like and Belinda is gone, so dundun, We've got to stop the makeout session and get there to.

The And I wonder, like this was like two thousand and six.

I remember watching this episode, and I used to back in the day around this time, want Stable and Benson to at least make out. I didn't want them to like end up together, but I always wanted there to be like a kiss. And I can't remember how I felt about this kid. I remember hating Beck, but I wonder if the fans were like, well, at least we're seeing something him, something with you know. But like I'm

Don't I think maybe she would stop even offering for people to say, I know my track records bad they find us, we have no c Yeah, I just how is this keeps being a plan?

And how are they finding her?

So is She's just like listed like it's so, I.

Mean whatever, Maybe Belinda like told her him where she was because she's like so trapped by him. But like this guy took Belinda, so she tried she goes, I try to stop him, but he hit me in the head a couple of times and I passed out. So also goes more to like how this man attacks people as he goes right for the fucking head. And then she described him as having a scar on his face, which is a you know, distinguishing characteristic of Victor Boudin

This is another classic moment. I guess this episode is way more. It has so many more classics than we think. This is one of my favorite moments and some s FU history too, like it's sticks out. It's an interesting thing. Yeah, but going I keep stopping you right now, It's like.

This is like this is you know, uh, this episode has a lot of classic elements.

So he calls Victor Bodine.

This UNI goes Victor Bodine and surprised, some young kid steps forward like definitely not Victor, and they're like, what's your name?

And he's like Victor Bodinea.

They're like, cut the shit, like what's your name and he's like, my name is actually Jason Young. And then the guy goes, oh, Jason Young who got bailed out three hours ago.

So that guy made no fucking wasted no time.

He literally got out of jail, went straight to get Melinda knocked out a nun like, he went straight there. He's only been out for three hours. How did he find her again? Who knows?

Now they're talking to this kid.

They bring Jason Young in for questioning and they're like like, why did you switch places with this guy who you just met? And they're like, no, no, I've known Victor my whole life. He's a legend in my neighborhood. Plus we find out he promised him an iPod very of the time, an expensive little eye, probably an iPod Touch and Beck goes, you threw away your future for an iPod and the kids like, what are you talking about

Like, helping a criminal get out of jail wasn't there. I know.

I'm like, how fucking stupid are you?

Yeah, Like, I mean, obviously, this dude is very manipulative and like rocking people to doing what he wants. But it is like, you thought this wasn't a crime. You thought helping someone is jail was just chill.

Well, Victor told him he was also going to get away with it because soon the lawyer was going to come spring him out and then no one would ever be the wiser.

But unfortunately, the guy you helped.

Get out of jail immediately committed a crime within ten minutes of getting out.

So you fucked up.

You trusted the wrong neighborhood legend. And so he's freaking why is he a legend? Why ruining children's live? I know, I know, get a new hero, Get a new hero. He's like, uh, he definitely doesn't realize he was going to get in this much trouble. And they're like, okay, well you can try to help us, maybe we'll lower your sentence or something. Tell us where you were meeting Victor for your iPod touch payment and it was Venice's crib. So now we're back at Venice's house. She's in the

Skanky ass ho.

We've got scan cost Central, you know, is a famous quote from Iced Tea, which, by the way, a listener did make us travel mugs that say scan cost Central on them, and my children grab it out of the cabinet all the time and play with it. And I'm always like, can we just not play with the scan cost Central mug? If another parent is over here, I

You're gonna let him?

Do you like that?

Like both of them are like literally speaking in a microaggressive accent a lot of this episode, and Venice spills he's got a loft by the river, down by the Williamsburg Bridge, And I'm immediately like, damn, you know, that's nice real estate down by the Williamsburg Bridge, North eleventh.

That's nice.

So when they get there, the door is open to the to the loft with two pack suitcases propping it open. Beck and Stabler like creep into the place with their guns drawn. They don't see anyone at first, but then they hear Victor slapping Belinda and screaming at her in the next room, and they're like they she walks.

Out, I didn't he leave her?

I don't get like, just go to the DR, Like, I don't understand making a pit stop.

I think he probably was gonna kill her eventually in the DR so that she can't testify for this case. Because if they, if they somehow extradt him from the DRS, she's already signed this document saying that he pimped her out. So it's like, if you kill her, she can't testify. I guess I'm assuming he was like literally about too, but I don't know.

Luck of them, Yeah, and so.

Beck and Stabler also, yeah, I would also say it draws attention to yourself to be a full grown man traveling with a girl who looks fifteen, you know, like I would like, that's not your daughter, Like I would say that that's uh, he probably would have been better off just yeah, go to the dr by yourself. So Belinda walks out of a room at one point and they try to grab her and she's like, no, get

Like, I don't want to leave you, Victor.

Like she's like professing her love the whole time this is going on. And this is always what I remember about this episode two Like day on this girl, like even as he's like holding a gun to her head, is like, you're my one true love, you know, like and just can't break out of the like spell, and so he brings her out the door down the stairs.

But Stabler saves her.

Victor runs for this suv, gets in and starts driving it. They look like they're on a rooftop of the building too. He starts driving it directly at Beck and then she has no other choice.

She's saying stop, stop, stop. He's driving right at her.

She shoots at him like three times and she hits him like you see the bullets hitting. And in the next scene it's the morning and he is dead. He is dead head against the sheering wheel Victor did not make it. So they're loading Belinda into the ambulance and she's like, can I see him? And they're like, it's probably best that we just cut it off here, and she's like, he loved me. No one else has ever loved me. And then the ambulance takes off, and then

Cool.

She's not gonna be horny for you after this case, Stabler. She's upset. Every case gets in her head. She doesn't want to continue the makeout from earlier.

You know, Yeah, it's I just don't like seeing him this desperate either, I know, just like strange and uncomfortable and I can't I don't know.

And the next episode is the l Fanning episode, and that's where Beck calls it quits. After that one, after a little girl sets her house on fire, she's like, I think I got to move on. I think I got to go back to where'd they say that she came to victim? She just likes dead people homicide. Yeah, but Craigan says something like Warrens sent her or something like that, some other department I hadn't heard of. But anyway, whatever, we got to get back into where Beck came from.

So it's about how the live victims are harder.

Yes, and yeah, she's also Danish assigned to the SVU.

It's why it's just wild.

Yeah, not a Danish exchange program. All right, Well, the crimes they're here. So Matthew Tompkins' case. On the streets, he was known as Knowledge and this guy sixty three three hundred pounds and according to a lot of sources, he won Pimp of the Year.

Yeah, and when.

They were organizing that, huh, Yeah, they were searched. So when they like eventually searched his properties, they found a giant four foot Pimp of the year's statue And it's from a DC competition called the Player's Ball, and it goes to the pimp that convinces everyone that he made the most money in the biggest name for himself that year. But also drum roll, he was a bronx mailman at this he was a mailman. He was a lettercari hey, so he was like this mild mannered mailman and then

My god, And in two.

Thousand and four she said that she brought in like two hundred and twenty two thousand, two hundred dollars one year, like in two thousand and four, and was only given twenty dollars a day.

Obscene, obscene, It's just I mean.

Another said she was practically at like a slave, and that was to news Channel ten and Amarillo, Texas. It's from the ap but like wild story for them to pick up, yeah, from this Texas paper.

Or news channel.

December two thousand and five, he is busted in his hummer and the ego is what really got him because he did an interview with a Florida magazine and they used the name Brandon, which was an alias of his, and so the FBI came knocking not long after that. So, if you're gonna be doing illegal stuff, I wouldn't do pr. Yeah, it really wouldn't do press. But it was also part

I was like, I was like, why is he staying in the postal service? Like once he starts making this money, Like why stay in the postal service.

I guess, just to keep up the.

Front that you're like working a regular job, but you're also using the postal service your advantage.

Damn.

I mean, it's like diabolical and he figured it out, he did.

But you know who I always think about Gus Fring. Is that the from Breaking Bad? Yeah? Poios armanos baby, Because in my head, I'm like, I would just not sell drugs if I didn't have I don't want to work at the chicken spot, Like I just can't imagine clocking in as a chicken shop manager. Like I guess you could take vacation time to be at your property. It's probably about the love of the crime. I have

Okay.

Anyways, so he also had a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars fine, but also money from monetary losses suffered by the victims, so he owed them a bunch of money and shocking, he also resigned from the postal service after he pled guilty. So if you were wondering, one of the former girls said in court, if he gets out, I know he'll do it again.

And that was a Channel nine news and Trenton, New Jersey.

But via the AP in New Jersey in twenty thirteen, they passed the bill that got unanimous approval that victims of human traffickings, criminal records would be expunged, and it happened to some of the women in this case Trafficking Prevention, Protection and Treatment Act that Atlantic County Assistant Prosecutor Danielle S. Buckley called, in quotes a paradigm shift where sex workers are not just seen as people committing crimes, but more

So thanks, great, take that, Hashi Horowitz.

Yeah, so one of the women was the first for this bill to work for. And you know, she had a really hard life. Father murdered at five, mother abandoned her ten years later. She had a son at twenty, and then fell for this man who introduced her to heroin, and then met a man Tompkins, who promised to help her make money and reunite her with her son, but instead controlled her life and pushed her into the sex business.

Yeah, like a week long, like like a day pass. I just want to read a couple of things, and I'm.

Out of here. Yeah, I'm like, should I get ahead of schedule because I only have it for a week. I don't want to keep giving them seven dollars every time I want to read a paper. But truly nothing about this man. It was really difficult, but this so Carlos Curtis was found guilty in sex trafficking, corsion, enticement of a minor, transportation of a person for prostitution, and

C B A lot of that, I guess, I don't know DC.

People call it the district, but oh yeah, that's the district, honey. He was the first pimp tried, So both of these cases actually of huge legal first things, like she was the first, you know, in the previous case, it was the first to have this bill work for her, this victim's bill. And this guy was the first pimp tried in the district under federal statute. In an effort to use federal anti trafficking laws as a tool to prosecute pimps so they would have stiffer penalties than the local

Why I mean, I guess, well, I'll voting in prostitution is not exactly violence, but it feels well, this violence adjacent.

The judge was so like, I'm obsessed with this judge. So Kessler, okay, So she disagreed and said the earlier conviction was indeed violent, and with the Maryland drug convictions as well and the district pimping conviction, it all works out. And then she was quoted and this is what you're getting at. Putting a girl out on the street for prostitution exposes her to beating, to assault, to murder. So in that way, it is very fucking violent. You know.

Yeah.

Fuck you know. So this judge is the shit. March thirty first, two thousand and four, this federal judge issued a nine count indictment and he was found guilty of six of the nine charges on July second, two thousand and four, and he was sentenced to six concurrent terms

I guess it's like if he's eighty five percent, I mean, he's not going to do it again, right, he doesn't have the capacity.

So yeah, So he tried to get out many times before, so like there was it was the same reasoning, but he was denied tons of times, Like he tried to appeal and get out, like, oh well all the time, but because of the convictions and discipline history, no one really cared. But basically the court document said that the defendant at this time in no way resembles the defendant sentenced in two thousand and six and he got supervised

That's that all right, Well he hated to do I can all agree on something, and I hate to say like it if it's the first federal case, it's like that does send a message to other sex traffickers and like pimps that you know you could also get back to back life sentences, you know, like.

This, man, I know, it just makes me feel like I don't want them to make an example of Luigi. I know, I know I don't either. I don't either.

But a one time it feels different than running a business.

It's very different. It's just like nuance is so important in our world, is like void of it now. But it's just like yeah, for this, I'm definitely like fuck everyone.

Yeah, so true. But we have a great guest coming up, so don't move a muscle. Our guest today has been working since she was thirteen years old, when she made her acting debut in the film Little Manhattan. She's also been featured on shows like FBI's Most Wanted and Inside Amy Schumer. But you know her best as the paw print back tatted underage sex worker Belinda Halt aka Passion. Please enjoy our chat with Charlotte Ray Rosenberg.

It's actually wild saying your face because you've been in it in our minds since season eight. It's like wild and that is thank you. What a classic episode, such a good performance, What a little what a little How old were you?

I think I was fourteen?

Yeah, like that was I may have been thirteen, I know I was playing fourteen.

Yeah, and how did it? Did you know?

You were like a sex worker on the street abuse? Like, how do you kind of prep for that at thirteen? And your parents are like, let's do this?

Yeah?

I mean I grew up in New York City at the time. My mom and I watched the show.

Weekly, oh, calegeously.

So we were huge fans.

We you know, I knew it was a I was also yeah, for better or for worse. My parents let me watch really brutal stuff from a very young age.

So you know, you go, you grow up fast.

Yeah, on the street, those New York City kids, they grow up fast.

That's true.

Yeah.

We do live shows on the road and we get a lot of mom daughter duos, dad daughter or grandma's like it was wildly it's a family show.

Yeah.

Everybody always says I was watching it when I was way too young to be watching it. It's like, I don't know everyone's watching it, and like when they're ten.

Well, we need to have lessons, like I bet your I bet this episode helped people in the future, you know, I hope, Yeah, I bet they'd people like wait this, I don't want I don't want to do that ever.

I don't know like like having sex with children is bad, it's a good life lesson. Yeah. I remember at the time it was the idea of being you know, sort of like Jodie Foster and Taxi driver was like a big selling point, and you know, it never it never crossed my mind that it would be problematic in any way. And I had, you know, sort of boheman parents.

In that way.

I was just watching the episode like right before I signed on, and it's it's it's wild looking back and just I got a little emotional like myself.

And just like dress up in that outfit.

I mean that outfit is amazing, like it it also reminded me and this is like a little sus But I I remember like that pink sort of bathing suit top I had like no boobs.

And they like made me have big day. They like stop you, They like made me have boobs, which is like cut, it's a little weird.

That's so weird.

Uh yeah, well I just think what's what's weird is like the show either casts like little kids to play little kids, but usually when it's like a teen, it's like a twenty year old playing a fourteen year old or a thirteen year old, and you're like the actual age, Like I don't think that they do that that much. So I feel like that's a testament to your acting. They were like, she can handle this, you know.

Yeah.

Do you remember the audition, like what besides?

Yeah, tell us more of like what came into your mind watching it and when it was happening and they were giving you the boobs, do you remember feeling a certain way about it or like I.

Think at the time, I was just like, yeah, like that looks hot, like cool? Yeah, Like I was, you know, I was like really into being sexy, and.

The in later years I was.

It was when I was sort of like wait, wait okay, but I was they I was playing fourteen and they so what.

Was the message there? But yeah, I remember the audition.

It's you know, in Chelsea Peers where they also shoot. I mean, I don't remember the actual inside the audition, but I remember being really excited about being cast as I think to this day it's like the kind of hardest character I've been cast as because I think people usually see me as more like soft or.

You know, more precocious.

And I was so excited to meet Marishka, like idol, and then a bit disappointed when I got said and I mean, I guess I had read the script ahead of time too, but I was like.

Oh, well, you know what, we're disappointed For a second, you were going to have like this story of how she was mean to you. And then I was like, oh, yeah, it's fucking back.

No, no, I I can tell you about how fucking amazing Marishka Hargay is though, because when you originally reached out about this podcast, I assumed that it would be about a later episode. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was I was utterly delighted to know that this episode was about Underbelly. But no, no, she was amazing, So yeah on set, I didn't meet her at the time,

And you didn't care about Maloney at all in terms of it was all about Marishka, right, yeah.

Yeah, I was just like, oh, yeah, that's the guy. Okay, cool.

Did your mom come to set with you?

Yes, she was. She was totally excited. I mean again, because we were such fans of the show.

We were just like, oh, look there's the jail cell, and like there there's the interrogation room. And it was almost this, you know, it was like the ultimate fan experience.

But yeah, she was there.

And I remember Connie Nilsen like also trying to teach me how to cry in like our little scene we have together, and I didn't.

I didn't quite squeeze out a tear.

Well I started in season seventeen. Oh yeah, you were really crying on the stand.

Oh yeah, lots of squeezed out a lot of tears.

Yeah, we we.

It's funny because we covered this episode already on the podcast. This is the episode a Misunderstanding from season seventeen, and I remember saying, oh, the main girl in this is the girl from Underbelly. But then I'm really kind of glad that we got you for Underbelly and not for that one, because we're obviously going to talk about both.

But in that you got to the two big lawyers, like and it's one of the evil defense attorneys we like, don't like on the show, was your so, Elizabeth Marble, why don't I wash?

And Delancey Delaney.

William Delaney William Yeah, he's Buchanan to me, it's so hard.

So how was it working with the two lawyers that we love?

Well, they were fabulous and yeah Raoul as Barzo, Oh my god, they were Yeah, he was Delaney is his name plays Buchanan?

He was mean, he was really, he's Spain.

We had him on the podcast and we were like, you're so nice and thank god, because if I saw you in the street, I would probably like, well, no, what's his Twitter?

Bio? Was like the guy you love to hate or something. Yeah, like your least favorite person on a.

Show that's really good.

Yeah, excellent, jerk excellent.

I remember being visibly repulsed and upset at him, just like how it was just so like how he was like violating my personal space. And but did you know that Marishka directed that episode?

We didn't know, so you really got to meet her? Did you tell her about Underbelly and you caught up?

Yeah, And so this is where this is the moment where I get to like gush about Marishka, because not only did I finally get to meet with her and work with her, you know, as an actor, but she was It was like a life changing experience for me working with her, and I actually I recently reached out to her about it because I have been transitioning more into filmmaking and I was telling her that, you know, even though I didn't quite realize it at the time,

And it was the first time.

I saw like, oh, because you know, especially coming into this industry at such a young age, I had such an idea of what it meant to be a director, and of course it was very patriarchal and very male, and you know that like almost having a megaphone kind

Yeah, yeah, that's the majority opinion. And it feels like everybody's like, just she's uh. And it's like you just hear about other like number ones on call sheets who are just assholes, and you're like, but look at the longest running live action show on television is run by this person that most people are like, she's the best person ever. So it obviously can lead to success. You don't have to be a dick, but I'm obviously mostly talking about men. I feel like that's around when she

You know how was We're you know the boy playing a rapist.

That was funny.

We sort of it was like, I feel like, not what you would normally hear about an assault, assault a victim, sort of actor dynamic. But we talked so much about I think, especially being adults, like trying to find the innocence of being kids, and even the you.

Know, from his perspective, like what he was going through.

And I think the way the way it was sort of put together, like we we really want it, and Mirish I think really wanted to create a lot of ambiguity and a lot of grayness, and because that's so often the reality that you know, if people don't fall into a specific type of victimhood, it's just it doesn't count or something. And also just you know, not in

And yeah, that that episode is based on something that happened at Saint Paul's, the boarding school that was like highly publicized and it was like very similar of like the guy dressing like a boy, like with the you like, putting on like the Harry Potter look or whatever, like the guy and the real thing did that as well, which kind of shows how lawyers and parents like made everything so complicated in the episode as well, you know, because the difference in the real case, I think is

Not in this episode.

Right, this guy's he's got he's got a he's got a really, really Protestant looking mom, so I can tell you real bossy parents when.

She's like ye wow, is that like I mean, honestly, from that, I just remember Marshca like telling me what like a great job I was doing, which is like, yeah, it just just like the speaks to I remember she said something about like, oh, like you're you're so natural, like you're you know, like you're raising the bar or something.

Constantly telling you you're a piece of shit, you know.

And yeah, I just think like she gave so much of that like affirmation that it just like allowed us to just be. But yeah, no, it's just it's something I've been thinking a lot about as like I've started working with actors and as a.

Director, So tell us about that. What are you up to?

So I wrote and directed my first short film, like this past fall, I produced a feature film that's gonna be premiering at a festival that I don't think is officially announced yet, but it's very exciting.

Okay, what's the name of the movie, just we can keep an eye out for it. Yeah, it's called Honest on a String.

Okay.

So yeah, I love acting and I love telling stories in that way, but I've also fallen in love with with directing, and it's been really cool seeing you know, obviously today that's just such a norm actors, directing, writing, et cetera.

But it's funny like looking back and even.

You know, when I started, it was it wasn't really as much of a thing, you know, especially for women.

And did you continue watching SU after you did your episode, like as a family or did it kind of change everything?

That's a good question.

I remember we because we were religious about it, like every week, you know, I had a dance to the theme song, and after the first time I was on it, we just sort of stopped and we didn't have a Sasiz.

Made you lost the magic? Yeah it did. Did you watch your episode?

Of course your family and how did your fai like parents react to seeing you in this. I mean, your mom was on set.

But my parents are really funny. They were I think they were just.

Like Yeah, like that's our girl, Like that's our girl, like walking in such our daughter's passion.

Yeah, oh my god.

Well wait, I have to ask you obviously about your big break film, Little Manhattan, that I don't know. The Internet says that you just you just booked this off of an open call? Is that factual? Because the Internet lies all the time?

Good question, because yeah, I do feel like there are so many sort of fictional pr stories out there, but.

This one was wildly true.

Wait, what is the first stutted movie?

Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see this.

This movie, Lisa, I thought you would like. I thought it's got Cynthia Nixon our face.

I'm looking at it right now.

Yeah. And Bradley Whitford, Willie Garson from Another City. Yeah, we've had Josh pa Us on the podcast We're Gonna Get Bradley Whitford one day and Josh Hutcherts. Did I mean it's like star studded. Wait, this is so cute. I need to see this. So I remember this movie coming out and seeing like a clip of it or.

The preview of Dylan's candy Bar shirt and this picture. Yeah, it's so amazing.

I remember because your character's name is Rosemary, and that's my mom's name.

And I was like, isn't that that's so sweet? A little girl with my mom's name or.

Whatever, Like it just stuck in my head because of that, And also I think I lived in Manhattan by this time, but that this movie came out, but I was like, wow, it must be so cool to be a kid in Manhattan. But you also wore a kid in Manhattan, So tell us about like making this.

Yeah, I I think it was really The writer directors were a husband and wife, lovely, awesome, cool team and they I think really it was one of those examples of in casting, it's like you can look for the actor who is the best.

Actor, or the person or the person the actor who's the person you know.

I'm saying that in a weird, convoluted way.

But.

Yeah, it was like a weird I my aunt in Long Island saw ad in the newspaper for an open call audition and mistakenly thought it was an American girl doll movie, okay, and.

I was into American girl dolls.

And I remember I couldn't like make the open call because I had a piano recital or something. But I made like this collage because I had never I had never auditioned before. I had never I didn't have an agent or anything. I just like made a clause of like different photos of myself and it was like Meet Charlie because I was like sort of channeling American girl.

Anyway.

It was not it had nothing to do with American girl dolls, but anyway, it was like, you know, a million They had already cast Josh. He was like seasoned veteran already by then, and I think they just wanted a girl who was like just a real New York you know, I.

Grew up downtowns.

It was very different, but I think they just wanted like a.

A real New York City kid or something.

And it was again, I mean, I was definitely I definitely realized it was not a normal thing at the time.

But you know, as I as I got older, as I realized.

What a shit storm of a difficult you know, profession and auditioning and all that stuff it was, I definitely sort of fell into a once in a lifetime sort of experience.

And then I you know, I just like rolled up to set and of course, like my first day.

On set was shooting with Cynthia Nixon, and as I mentioned, my parents let me watch anything, so I had already been watching Sex in the City by that I was like a huge fan and I was.

I threw up because I was so nervous, and I was just like, oh my god, what's going on?

But yeah, it was just like really fun and I just did it and then it was like, Okay, I guess I like acting.

That's wow.

And then do you and your little on screen boyfriend, Josh Hutchardson keep in touch.

No, I haven't talked to Josh in a while. That would be. That would be I remember, like I was also.

I had later done a pilot that was like never picked up a CBS pilot, and Jennifer Lawrence was in the pilot as well, like just a day player role like as my friend or something and humble brag.

But I just remember like being in college.

I went to Northwestern, I majored in theater, and I was like struggling to get cast in, you know, my the student theater production that I wanted, and then I remember it was the same time, like Hunger Games were blowing up, and it was like.

Josh Utterson and Jennifer Lords, and I was like, I made a huge mistake. Oh god, yeah, but yeah I was.

I was his first kiss. And I hope that's not my biggest claim to fame in life.

Oh but it's so you like, I don't know, you're so cute in that, You're so like like that.

I just remember the cover of it so well.

Also, I just looked up that married couple that wrote and directed it really quickly and they co created Big Mouth, Huge hitch show that's out now.

Yes, crazy and Jennifer back from.

Two sweet little kids walking around New York falling in love to kids humping pillows and one of the most pervy shows out there. I know, that's so funny.

They were, they're they're they're awesome. They're so cool.

This is so exciting. Yeah, so much.

About this film you made when you were just a baby. This, I mean this episode of TV you made and the movie. Yeah, to meet Belinda, I am thrilled. Belinda whole passion forever. Well, she was delightful to love a city kid that she's loved talking to. I love talking to a city a city kid, Yeah, Manhattan kid. She's getting into directing. We need more ladies behind the camera tooo, so the female show runner at SVU and we got Charlotte ray Rosenberg behind the camp camera now.

Well, and to give a shout out to the survival of the thickest seventy percent women and people of color crew. So that's cool, yes, huge, yes, yeah, and it's like a great set to be a yeah yeah yeah. Women directors killing it. Oh my god, that's episode horrific. What I can't stop singing where in the middle of a hot stop take over.

Yeah, it's so good. I sing it like all day long.

As ye lady in office this episode. Oh this is too late. I wonder if married women are gonna have the right to vote or not. We'll see. We'll talk about it next intro. The vote's happening. Oh yeah.

Also the head of like, now we're just gonna start like reporting all this like it's funny.

Uh.

The head of Congress, the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, just made sure that if you're in Congress and you just had a baby, you cannot vote remotely. They do not want anybody voting remote people.

People have been bringing their babies, but you.

Better get you better pack up, put your diaper on and get your ass to DC after you've given birth, something that a man could never fucking do.

And so yeah, but yeah, so if your birth certificate doesn't change, doesn't bet your ID, and you don't have a passport, you're not gonna be able to vote the Party of Family Values.

Okay.

Anyway, Uh, this episode wild, this episode crazy. As we said always, I'll never forget that fucking tattoo as long.

As I live.

It's literally part of the logo of my kids school, Like it's like a little pawprint, and every time I see it, I'm like, that looks like the fucking underbelly tattoo. But oh, we gotta keep we gotta keep these teen girls away from these fucking bad guys.

We gotta.

I felt so bad for Belinda. She was between to rock in a hard place.

She can't go back to Ohio, she can't be with a pimp who's got himself wrapped up inside of a sleeper sofa.

Yeah. I'm honestly just thinking about the women voting now, I know, Zara.

I threw a wrench in to the post mortem this week for what would Sister Peg Do? We're our weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization and article, a book, whatever we are going to point you to Protect All Children from Trafficking. This is an organization called Protect All Children from Trafficking abbreviated to PACKED. This is the first US organization to focus on the commercial sexual

Give us a follow, thank you so.

Much, and next week we'll be doing the episode Terrorized, Season eighteen, Episode one, don Dove.

Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you bye.

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