Twenty-Five Acts

Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.

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Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast another episode. I am Lisa Traeger.

And I'm Kara Klank, and you know, we talk SVU. We talk true crime, and then we interview a guest sometimes, but first we catch up in chat. Lisa, what's going on with you? You're all over the place.

Well huge morning plane. Jane did follow me back on Instagram.

Thanks excuse me? Yeah, so that's pretty good.

I wonder maybe I can stalk her in New York and get my claws in her because I am so excited.

Yeah, oh my god.

Actually, as the release of this of this episode comes out, we will know who the new queen is. We don't because obviously we're in a bit of a time machine.

When are we getting the reunion? Like I loved the lip sync. I think we should talk about it.

I think it was Friday. It was a lip sync battle with all the eliminated queens. Oh, I didn't know that. I haven't watched.

Yet Oh okay, I thought it was that reunion.

No, it was a lip sync battle. I kind of turnt.

It was awesome because you know, I don't love the sit down reunion that much for drag Race. I certainly do for Housewives, but for drag Race, I don't love it as much.

I do love it, but the lips.

What I love about it is like the Limited, you just get to see the Limited queens shine and give them another chance to solidify their careers post show. So I love that that outfits were fun, the vibe was fun, and then I love the reunion no matter what. But I'm wondering if it's going to be one of those live finales where it's in then like at the theater and it's the Queen's because that or what's gonna happen?

Or do we not get a reunion anymore?

Like I'm devastated, well, because why would it happen after the finale? That's or maybe it will be after the finale.

I'm pretty positive finale is the nineteenth, because I googled it because my brother's coming to town, my brother who got me into drag Race, and we're planning to go watch it at a bar somewhere, and so I've been like texting around with people being like, where are you watching finale? So I feel like it's definitely happening, But I don't know if there's going to be the same kind of sit down, spill the t vibe that they've had.

Maybe they were like just replaced. I don't.

Especially with playing Jane and all the drama that's been caused, and like there's just been so much stuff. So I definitely want to talk with the girls. I mean the mandatory meeting, Like why would they miss out on that kind of opportunity?

I know that's what I was gonna I was just about to say, a mandatory meeting. You're right, maybe they're gonna do it like the shit they do on the stage at the live shows where they kind of bring out a little clumps through me so they talk. Yeah, maybe they're gonna do that. I bet they will. I bet they will. I'm just surprised because I usually know a couple of people that go to the live and I maybe I'll just text my one friend who usually goes and be like, did that did it happen? Did

Then I felt like a fool because then I saw a post that said Rupaula is retiring, and then I took a springshots to read it later and then and then in Baltimore, I was talking to some Gaze about it and they're like, god, you're so straight.

That was like from ten days ago, and I'm like, I am. I want to let you know solidarity. I fully fell into that.

It was the fitness Gaze instagram that I follow and they said they they go.

It's a parody account. I go, yeah, I thought they were reposting it. It's a big deal in the game. He's retiring, Like.

It's not crazy like ru Is, you know, running himself ragged with all of these things. So I don't think it's crazy, like but I read it out loud to Jared and was like, oh my god, RuPaul stepping down. Like I fully fully walked into the trap. And I also remain a straight person that's been fooled. But I'm excited to watch it, especially with my bro show him the sort of fun la drag race bar scene. But anyway, I'm excited. Obviously, I was talking to my friend Jed, He's on team Nymphia.

I'm Sephira.

I think it's Sephia's to lose pretty much, but because I think they're gonna want to keep Jane for an All Stars obviously, you know they need another season of her wreaking havoc.

Yeah, but you know they given't. I hashtagged playing Jane tonight, Listen. I was all team Saphira. She is credible and good at everything, but the one slip up just really it's in my head. I think the twin challenge was a giant flop. She obviously had a pivot last minute, but like, I just can't see her the same and it's unfair because she is so good, but I just I can't look past that little blue underskirt, the puffy thing.

I just can't.

We're also coming off of like a Sasha season where Sasha made zero mistakes, and so yeah, I can see why there's a little bit of but.

You're allowed to flop.

It was I couldn't look past the flop because plane Jane also, you know, had a lip sync last week or two weeks ago and it did true. But I just love her face and the episode you didn't see she's wearing a Google eye outfit, and I do love Google eyes, so they're out.

Famously gave one of our friend's kids a two pound bag of googly eyes for.

Their birthday, right, you I did a long time ago. Yeah, I think this is like six years ago. I know you love googly eyes. Well.

I also had one of my dreams come true where I did get to tell on a child at an art museum that was touching the art. So it was it was ridiculous. She kept touching the art and the dad was just kept being like, I mean, don't touch it, but like kept letting her touch everything. And I said what the fuck twice to this family and they did nothing. So I ran out and I said there's a kid in there touching art, And boy did this.

Man run fast and he caught her mid touch.

And then the mom made a face of like what like, okay, relax, and it's like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like I think I think if you're I think you should.

Be kicked out of a museum. I do. I do.

I think if you touch art you should be immediately escorted out.

Reason No, not cool.

I mean there's reasons why I haven't brought my son to many art museums.

You know he can't be.

Trusted, but oh, absolutely not. I'm glad you fucking got it taken care of. I mean, I know this is gonna be old news. We're in the fucking time machine, but just let me have this. Taylor and Teresa Judais side by side at Coachella. What is happening with life?

Yeah, there was a tweet that said, one day I'll have to explain to my grandchildren why this is framed in my home. And I loved that he also lifted her. I mean, it was a big day. It was a big day. She was drinking.

I forgot it was Coachella until all those picks started pouring out.

Yeah, it's fun and she's like a genius. She gets to just get drunk at Coachella with this hot ass dude who's lifting her up. But also be promoting her album all at the same time. It's magic. I'm lucky to be a part of it. I'm not a part of it. I'm not a part of it. I'm glaring at it on my phone.

But I just saw an article that I almost sent to you but got distracted. Like New York magazine or somebody has an article that's like Taylor Swift, like broke up our friendship or something. But I don't know really the context of the article. It's just it was like about like someone as a swifty being friends with a not swiftye and it didn't go well. But obviously there's underlying issues. It's not like Taylor broke up their friendship,

Ending Okay, it was only posted five hours ago. You really got your hands on it quick.

Yeah.

Well, I actually I'm a new subscriber. I get the print versions of New York Magazine sent to me and the cut. Oh it's one of my I thought for New York. You know what, I miss magazines. I'm gonna be here a while.

A magazine's a great thing to like throw in your bag. For the subway too. You know, we're not We're not lugging around books.

We're just not.

No.

And the articles are long. I mean the articles are long in there. These are investigative pieces. So okay, let's see. This is ending a friendship over Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift remains a constant source of comfort and understanding. My friend has become a distant memory.

Okay.

I mean like they intrigued me with the title because I was like, what happened?

But then I didn't get to click yup.

Well, I mean I was sending one of our I was sending a friend while talking to her multiple photos and she kept going, why are you doing this? And I was like, oh, I thought I was trying to explain something to you. She goes, I got it. I'm like, god, I got got it. I don't remember what I was

But and I also hate that.

I'm like, oh, I'm just so happy that this billionaire found love.

You know.

But here we are, I mean, but I'm just like, I'm happy that she gets to be in the crowd and mostly left alone.

But also we got the picks.

But the sushi restaurant she goes to is an omakase spot, and it is about four hundred dollars a person, even though it isn't a strip mall in La over A. Yeah it's but it's like a FedEx strip mall place. But it's been a celeb hot spot, I guess for twenty years. I did read an investigative report on why celebrities life to go there, Pulitzer.

Prize winning report, I'm sure.

And she was wearing a skirt that only costs forty dollars, Like I like that.

Yeah she I think she probably does a lot of mixing of high low, right.

Like that's her total thing. It's about relatability.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Gucci sneakers were definitely not forty dollars.

But wait, really quickly, back to what you were saying about the kids touching the art. I have another kid thing I want to run by you. That happened to me. It didn't happen to me, it came into my life in the past few days. So you know that we belong to like a swim club in La okay, and it's you've been it is. Look, I recognize my privilege in being able to go to a pool, take my kids to a pool. It was important for me for them to know how to swim. But it is not fancy, right,

You have to be dry to enter that area.

Or you can go down these treacherous backsteps and they are like treacherous, they are treach.

You've seen them. Like you're talking to me like it's.

Either I've been down there, and then if father was like, my daughter's in there, can you help her?

And I'm like I guess.

Yes, Like and it's like if I go down there, if I have my kids alone, you're telling me that in like a two hour period, I would be going down there once to get them in bathing suits, down there for diaper changes, down there for bathroom changes, and down there for a swim change. Like I'm going up and down this set of stairs three to four to five times in a few hour period if I'm by myself, and I obviously took it to a Facebook group as

Like this is crazy. So what do you think? Well, I don't know because.

We went to the pool, and I guess it's kind of the situation like I think we were the only people doing that, But it's also not an issue to me. Yeah, I do want to know the like what the elegance they mean? Do they mean like we got we have pedophiles here, you got to be here? Like is that what they're saying what I'm saying, or is it like it's like these are children I don't know, or it's like like who is uncomfortable by a naked kid?

Well?

Did I talk on this podcast about the time that I brought Rosie to that this kid's museum and she got her clothes wet and she was potty trained, and like, but I didn't have anything for her to wear. So she was wearing a super long T shirt covering her private area. And someone called the staff on me and said I had to put a diaper on her, and I was like, she's potty trained, I'm not going to put a diaper on her, and they were like, well, you just like she has to cover up. But I

But I'm just like, I don't know.

I'm curious if someone complained, like why they did it?

What's going on?

Well, they say, also it's health stuff because they serve food out there. But it's like this was like Wednesday Thursday when everybody just started coming because it got like nobody's eating.

Do you think it's there because of you?

Oh no, no, not at all, not at all, not at all, because a lot of people do this.

I see it all the time.

Wait, how did they respond to you once you wrote the email?

I didn't write back saying fuck you, I'm gonna keep doing this. I was like, Okay, if you could like put up some kind of curtain makeshift like changing area on the upper area so that I don't have to go down into the depths of hell to change my children, like that would be great. They're like, yeah, we have to follow like LA Health code. I don't know if we're gonna be able to do that. And I was like okay. I was like, it's just very difficult with children.

And someone in my and.

The group was like, do you like you're asking us to do this like thing, but your your physical space is not like designed for people with young children.

In mind sorely till I was a long time.

It was just underwear and my sister in the Soviet Union, I mean, until she.

Got to America.

Like, I don't know, I think it's it's not a worldwide global issue.

It is. Yeah, it's pure If.

Somebody wrote next thing you that next thing, you know, they're gonna say no breastfeeding, Like it's like what you know, But I don't know, wanted to.

Throw it out for you.

Uh, I don't think they're gonna fucking do anything. And I also think, according to everybody that posted on this post that I made, that popped everybody off. No one's going to stop doing what they're doing. Like everyone's gonna keep doing it. So it's like be discreet, like don't let your kid like just like run around fully naked.

I guess, like, oh wait, but I went to the Outsider Museum, the American Visionary Museum in Baltimore, and there was a flyer outside of an exhibit and it said having children makes you no more a parent than having a piano makes you a pianist.

Oh pretty good, look at that. Yeah you hear that, casey.

But yeah, So I took a photo of that, and then I saw that fucking kid touching the art and I'm like, I hope they see this fucking banner too.

Yeah.

Yeah, So anyway, just another day in like not being able to, uh have my children naked anywhere I go, even though that's my goal.

I think if we should be able to be naked, but I guess we were the only ones, so it's like, as no one else doing it, but then in this group, it seems like everyone's doing it.

Yeah, because I went to.

The beach with one of her other friends and this was a big beach and her kids were fully naked and people were not into it because there are the only ones. So it's like it's not a big deal. I think kids should be able to be naked, like that's the point. Yeah, But because they're not, then your kids are the only naked kids right in a hundred plus kids.

So that's why it's weird.

And obviously it's like I will take my child's lead on this too, like in case anybody is like gonna you know, like if my kids suddenly are like no, no, no, I want privacy, Like they know about privacy from like going to the bathroom and stuff like that like, if they suddenly don't want to be naked, I'm not gonna

Yeah, I don't know. I'd sick of weird. It's a weird thing.

Well, my dad made me pee outside when I didn't want to, and all of our friends that we were going to Disney with did see me, and it was humiliating.

So not.

That was another part of the email was no letting them pee in the bushes, And I was like, listen, I go when I wrote, I go, I'm not talking about that part. That part I'm fine with. We're not we should not be letting them just like use the bathroom wherever, but like you know, at a you know, at a property.

But yeah, I think it's just because there if it's the only one, because if ever I'm thinking of like the heckling thing where it's like, what, what's the big deal. I'm like, well, no one else is heckling, so clearly this is an issue. Yeah, or like it's weird, but they're the weird ones because who cares.

Yeah, thank you, thank you. I knew you'd be on my side on this. It is.

It's not a sciatal thing. It's like a big oh my god, it's so funny. I was getting a facial and like we were vibing, but then me too came up and then it was like, oh great, Oh no. She's like, I don't know, you're an adult, you can leave, and I was like, yeah, I just think it's a little more complicated than that. I know.

It's like, well, you're having a great conversation with somebody and then they just like bring up the most terrible stand up comedian and they're like I love them.

You know, You're like, no, we were doing good. Well.

So my train to Baltimore was delayed I think like two and a half extra hours, and so I was on there for a while. There was i would say, a child like a freshman in college next to me watching clips of Michael cha and so I thought it was funny. But then I saw Ben Shapiro came up in his Explorer page and I'm like, you better ignore that, bitch. But he was watching golf, and I'm sorry, Like golf did not have this kind of a moment ever in my life. Like, I don't understand how golf has a

My brother is my brother David has always been super into golf.

I don't know what it is.

I don't know how does he feel he knows there's been an explosion right, like there's got to.

Be or he's just always been into it.

Well he's always been into it, like because he's always been into it. He was a caddie when he was a teen, and like he loves it.

No, I know, but how does does he realize that it's the current?

Do you feel like that's total or do you think it's just because the masters is happening right now or like.

WHOA, I think pandemic because it was an outdoor activity and I think that, but it's kind of like I was talking to a group once and I was like, oh my god, everyone's skiing and they're like, no one is skiing in my feed, and so it's like, oh, I might know people that are doing something different in skiing and it's not universal. But I feel like golf is everywhere, like the outfits every like it just seems more popular than ever before.

And also because.

Now your algorithm knows that you like sports, so they're seeing how many sports they can get you into.

Before even comics, comics are golfing now, like people are golfing that I would never have expected our golfing.

There's golf podcasts with young comedians. Last year I went to when we went to Moontower, I did the golfing competition.

I don't know how to golf. Yeah, so yeah, it's popping off. Golf is having a moment.

But I don't know if it's a scheme thing where it's just in my world. But like, I just never felt like comics were out there golfing on their free time. Like I know someone that is selling their house right now, Like my sister knows them to move to a different house to be closer to the golf course. I know another family that's moving to a different town to be next to a better golf course. These are good, Yes, I like, and it's new to me. I understand moving

Just don't like it.

And the Masters just came out and said they're including women would take away the magic and majestic nature of the tournament. So God, and the country club that was near my house obviously didn't allow Jews.

But well, I think I've talked to you about this. How my dad drove me to a bird they party at the country club in my town when I was in fifth grade, and the whole way there told me about how they don't accept Jews and to not not bring it up that I'm Jewish. So I spent the entire party being like, Hi, like totally freaking out because I was like eleven, and I was like, are they going to find out and make me leave?

Like it was?

But you know, that's just my dad being stupid. But I wanted to point out if anybody is interested while we're a golf club.

No, if anybody wants to come to a golf no.

Revisionist history Malcolm Gladwell's podcast, which I think I've mentioned before, has an amazing episode that I believe is called a Good Walk Spoiled. It's from many seasons ago on his podcasts because I've kind of fallen off of it, But it's about golf courses and how they fucking take up

I'm just like Wow, these rich people just know how not to pay taxes and it's over.

It's incredible.

It's truly incredible, the thirst for evil and power.

But you know, from the beginning of time.

As always, our intro is veering into a bright, happy, funny.

Noes Caine killed Abel for what a horse or something like shit happens?

Oh God?

All right, Well I did talk about this on my story. I know Casey is mad. Do not shake your head. I think you're gonna laugh. I think you're gonna laugh. Okay, So yesterday I got in I'm leaving town again tomorrow, so I filled. I have a giant laundry backpack. It's filled to the brim. Then I took all the sheets and towels in a garbage bag. And then I had two dresses for dry cleaning. So I'm holding it all.

People were sitting on my stoop.

They definitely saw my ass like I, but no one helped me. And I feel like that is not the community that I want to be a part of, Like, fucking.

Tell me my ass is out.

But also I had to stop wearing short dresses with no underwear like that is for some reason, I keep doing that, but the butt has never been out. I think it's because I'm not thinking. When I'm doing laundry. It's like, oh, yeah, kay, take the underwear off whatever, put something on. Yeah, and it's like you need a length, you need a little bit of length. Okay, Well Casey did not lappy put his camera off, So.

Casey turned his camera off for the underwear story.

I've definitely helped a girl before and said, girl, your dress is like caught into the back of your purse or like whatever, you know, like you gotta we got to help each other out here. People come on, Yeah, the world is ending, we need help. But let's pop into this episode because this is one people have been asking for forever.

We've been dying to do it.

And here we go, Okay, twenty five acts. We're getting

I don't like that one bit.

Not a great start to that episode of just Finn being like, Yep, you gotta frisk people randomly it works, because I think it's been proven that it does not. And Munch is like, it could also be the heat wave we've had twenty days in a row over ninety degrees.

Wow, it would work if they stopped and frisk the whites.

Yeah, you know, because it seems like the whites.

Are out there shooting at a lot of places.

Yeah, yeah, the whites are at the top of the mass shooter roster.

Absolutely.

Yeah, So maybe stop and frisk would work if they targeted a different demographic.

Just the thought, just the thought.

Yeah, but I have read before that crime rates do rise in hot temperatures, that summer always has more crimes, like and I think that's been proven.

I did a quick.

Google and it does seem started by studies. Although I guess you could also say correlation doesn't equal causation. But I'm not going to spend any more time on this. If you want to research that, feel free hell, or you could just watch Do the Right Thing. Yeah, it's all about a hot summer.

I've never seen that.

Oh yeah, it's good. It's really good.

I got it.

Actually, So I just got into a movie game. Vulture has one. Now it's like every weekday the Grid. I told you about it.

It's hard.

I found the site where they got the game from. It's called moviegrid dot Io. I'm fully addicted. I just hit archive over and over. I played NonStop, and it just hit me. John Tooturo's in that one and I should remember that.

Oh okay, great, great, file that away, file it away.

Because he was just in one of them. And I picked three other movies and so.

Now I'm it. It is hard, but it's really fun.

So if anyone loves the movie game and a grid moviegrid dot io, I'm not getting paid.

I just was literally on spring break with my kids for you know, eight full days of face to FaceTime, and.

Oh it's been so funny.

Our friend posted like kids going back to school tomorrow.

Holler if you celebrate like I can't wait? I like, why already?

I just dropped them off an hour ago, and it was like them, I feel so free. But I've been playing so many games. I've been going to bed early, like in hotel rooms with them and shit. So like, I'm playing Wordle, I'm playing Connection, I'm playing the new thread is it called Threads that we play now? Playing Strands? Threads is is on Instagram. I'm playing Strands. I'm playing the mini Crossword, and then I go into spelling me

But I do feel really disconnected from society because I'll do guess it like it shows you the percentage of people that also guess your guests and the amount of times that's at one point seven percent, zero point nine percent, two percent.

I'm like, for Wordle, you mean no, for this movie? Grid Game. Oh, I'm like shocked.

I'm like, I guess I'm the only one watching Friends with money? Like what, like I put Forces of Nature two point nine percent of people.

I'm like, what's going on? I don't know, Like I just feeled Arlington Road four percent.

I'm like, I'll bet you what it is is like it's mostly men playing that game, and you have like a female perspective of movie watching.

I mean, you know the amount of Dark Night and Avenger, I mean and Avengers ever just to Bradley Cooper's and The Guardian's if you don't know an answer, just throw in an end game Avengers.

I bet.

Yeah.

It's just like men think they kind of own the movie space. I feel, and that's why I think that maybe that game is that's where you're getting those percentages.

Yeah, he's just not that into you two percent. I'm like, what star studded a classic, A book that I read as well as a movie I consumed as well.

Look one just came up, Murder by Numbers one point seven percent.

Just watch that on a plane and I loved it. What would you guess? Ryan Gosling released from two thousand to twenty ten. I we why didn't think that of a No. No, I'm literally I'm stumped. I don't know.

Yeah, like that's a good guest murdered by numbers, gus like oh two weeks notice or no, that's not even him?

What's what like, Gus? Oh the Notebook?

Yeah, I didn't even really watch The Notebook until like a year ago. He didn't really come into my consciousness. I feel like until like Drive and like that era, which was I think twenty ten's so.

Yeah, I've also guessed Lars and the Real Girl. Well, well I did see that. That was a low percent too. What's find a movie where he's shooting people and he can fly? That's the one? It is?

No, he put sixty five percent of people guessed the Notebook.

Oh, got it right. He's a rom com man. I guess.

Okay, So we're in the squad, everyone's talking about crime whatever, and in walks Adam Baldwin, who is Captain Stephen Harris, And I don't like this guy in life or on the show. On the show, he is a poor man's vincent and offrio to me, and off the show. He was involved in gamer Gate, so he's a no thank you for me anyway, he is standing in for Daddy Craigan while he like wipes the whole stink of the Chrissa Gibson, Barganzel Deally a controversy off of him. Everyone's

It's so funny that you think he's a Danafrio type. To me, he's a Surproco type.

That's so funny that you're bringing up Surproco because that there's literally a reference to that in five minutes in the episode Oh wow, like two.

Minutes from now.

And I googled Surproco to talk about it because I don't really know who Curproco is.

I've never seen that movie. No, who's the guy, the blonde guy, ah who comes in?

H Terry Curproco. Yes, he gives me that vibe. It's just like a brute of a guy who comes in. SVU doesn't understand victims once the boss benson around, acts like a dickhead, and then at the end goes, I guess I respect, I know, I hear what.

You're saying, but that guy's a little bit more like he did, like Benson the Boss do what I say.

Like, and this guy is more like just creepily even keeled. And that's I guess where the Jenofrio comes in for me, Like he's just kind of like I'm gonna switch things up, you know, he's just very like ugh, you know, and he's like you, I don't know. There's more evidence to why he sucks later in this episode too, But truly, this is so funny because, like I wrote, he informs the gang that he wants to move some pieces around

Is good to remember for my game.

Yeah, and he ended up getting shot and they think that fellow officers like led him into He survived the shooting, sorry, but he They think fellow officers like led him into this shooting because he was about to, you know, testify and get all these people fucked up.

But I guess Sirpoko was one of the good guys.

And I don't really get why we're calling Amarro that is he some kind of whistleblower, Like I don't I didn't see the movie, so I really don't know the reference. But Nick's like all good with me, and Olivia is like kind of making a weird face, and Olivia follows him and is like, hey, just FYI, I didn't ask for that switch, and he goes, I know you didn't. I did ooh, and she looked surprised, and he's like, you know, the thing about you live, you need to have a partner you can trust.

And then he walks away.

And this is related to like her kind of questioning his integrity about whether he was really trying to hook up with Carissa Gibson, the sex worker who ended up dead in Craigan's bed and there was just some mistrust happening in the previous episodes. So now we're in Harris's office. He's watching some right wing Fox News type show where some berther bitch is popping off about Obama and Munch comes in to be like night boss and asks, oh, are you an Adam Kane guy? And that's the guy

I think it's one of those.

Dude, I did not know Iced Tea is a Cain's guy because my nephews love Kanes and now I can relate to them a little more.

Yeah. Remember there was a time where he was working the drive through. People were just pulling up and like they were like, holy shit, get iced tea is at the drive through.

I don't remember that, but I'm looking at the picture sure of him doing it right now.

Yes, well, I think it's probably because I read all of our dms and we were getting DM.

That a lot from people that were like, look at Icedy. So yeah, he is a chicken man. But this guy, Roger Bart, I thought you might be interested. He's one of these guys that you just know you've seen him in something, even if you don't know his name. And he is a Broadway baby, but he also has a shit ton of on screen credits. He wanted Tony for playing Snoopy and You're a Good Man Charlie Brown. He sings the song go the Distance from Hercules, which was

I'm still floored. I cannot believe that man saying hercules.

Can you believe it? I can't. I am distance.

Yeah, that's that's not a face I attached to that song.

I know.

Wow crazy, he's Actually it's because he's a good actor, because I hate him.

Yeah, yeah, I.

Think he plays a lot of like kind of smarmy people, you know, like he plays a lot of kind of like I think in episodes he's like an agent.

Or something like. I don't know. He He's not usually a likable dude, I get, but he was snoopy. But maybe he was wearing a snoopy. Yeah, I don't know.

I've never seen I've only ever seen You're a good Man, Charlie Brown at the Boys Camp that is the brother camp of my camp. So I've only ever seen it with like a twelve year old playing snoopy. But this guy is introducing this author who wrote essentially a fifty Shades of Gray book. He even mentions fifty Shades of Gray, which I don't think a lot of people know. I think a lot of people do know, but I think don't know that Fifty Shades of Gray started as Twilight fan fiction.

Did you know that? I did not. Yeah, like it was Twilight fan fiction.

Were the main characters, and then she sort of developed it into this whole fifty Shades.

I think it's a trilogy.

I've never read a word of fifty Shades because I heard the writing was atrocious, and you know, I didn't feel the need. But the guy says, this book makes fifty Shades look like a Disney story. So they cut backstage and the author is Anna Chlumpsky, Anna Klumsky.

Do you say Klumsky? I don't ever say it. I go, you know from V Yeah, my god, yeah that's what I said.

Well, Anna Klumsky, who I wrote in my notes, made her way into my heart via My Girl and worked as a kid actor.

That's a movie.

I've never seen it. Oh my god, I know about the Beast, yes, but you have to watch My Girl. It's such a great movie. Dan Ackroyd, Jamie Lee Curtiz.

It's so good. I love it so much. Oh my god.

I saw my Girl in the theater as like a child, and she worked actually for a long time as a kid actor.

She's actually an uncle buck.

I thought My Girl was her first thing, because you know what I remember about the poster of My Girl. Remember when they used to have posters that said and introducing I remember the mask posters all said and introducing Cameron Diaz, and these posters for My Girl used to all say and introducing Anna Klemski or whatever.

So I remember thinking that was her first thing.

But according to iem Tob she was an uncle buck, which is another amazing eighties classic. And she actually took a break for like six years from acting and went to University of Chicago.

She's from Chicago.

She went and got her degree, and she actually after she got her degree, she started getting other jobs, Like she got a job like fact checking for the Zagat Guide. I mean, this is again, this is quick Wikipedia looking up guys. I do more research for the crimes, but for random actors, I just check a couple sources. But like it says that she got an editorial assistant job for like a sci fi imprint or something, and then she.

Was like, I think I'm gonna go back to acting.

And then wildly comes back to acting and stars on probably one of the funniest on what I think is one of the funniest shows of the past of all time, Beep, and she is.

Well, it's not just your opinion, it's scientific proven that there's more jokes per minute in that show than anything that's ever been read.

Yeah, it is. It is the best show. And she's great in her role.

Like I really, I think it took me a little minute to come around to like Amy as a character because she's supposed to be a little bit annoying, but she's so good in this part. And actually the year that Beep came out is the same year she did this episode. And I think also when she came back to acting, she came back to original recipe in two thousand and seven, so I think maybe she's like, I got a soft spot for the Law to Order universe, Like even though Veep's taking off, she's like, Oh, they

So dude, it's a tough episode. I wouldn't want to know. I mean, yeah, it's tough.

Yeah it is.

It's really really brutal. But she's very great. She's very good in it, I think. And she's done that Anna del v show. She's in shit all the time. She's now like fully well known and is a wonderful actor. So anyway, this guy goes, she's hot, rich, kinky, and I think I'm in love Joscelyn Paley and introduces her and she comes out. He goes, I don't know if I should kiss you or spank you, and she goes, why can't you do both? And it's like very yikes, and I just realized, Fuck, we are not even at

So boom.

Now we're in what I thought was a hotel room with an amazing view, and they're having fun. They're making out, it's getting hot and heavy, and then he slaps her across the face and quotes her book where he goes act to I say when you can touch me, and she seems into it, okay, and then he tells her to.

Get on the bed.

Then he's like, get on all fours and then he takes off his belt and says you need to be punished and slaps her very hard with the belt, whips her with the belt, and she's like, okay, wait, I don't like this, and she tells him that it hurt and to stop, and before she can say anything else, he basically has her like yoked with the belt and is choking her and he's like, you don't get to tell me what to do. And thank god we're at the credits because this is very scary and violent. So

I told her not to call.

She confirms that they went out to drinks and then they went back to Caine's place and they're like, you have a lot of bruises and like a horrible ligature mark on your neck, and she's like, yeah, he got handsy. And they're like, girl, that is from a belt. That's not like somebody giving you a ask tap during foreplay, Like this is from a belt. This is fucked, and

And she adds, but I was flirting with him all night. I told him I wanted to dominate me.

I can't now call that an assault, And Benson suggests, why don't you get a rape kit? And Amanda's like goes straight for the scare tactic. Remember that this is early. Rollins still like this is only the beginning of her second season, and she's like, yeah, girl, don't forget you could have an STD want to get that rape kit? Like, so she immediately goes for like worst case scenarios, scaring

You know, it's like a whole process.

Rollin says, there are also rumors about this guy that he's handsying forward with women, and Finn and Munch randomly race to defend this guy.

They're like, now we've seen him at benefits. He's one of the good guys. Like he's at the benefits for the police widow. Like they haven't works, I know, like it's not season fourteen guys, like they like police widows battered women. He never says no to you know, charity, but then they're like, you mean he never hears no.

So then Harris plays traffic cop. He sends Munch and Finn to go talk to this guy before he lawyers up, since they apparently are his number one fans, and then he sends Benson and Rollins to see if Jocelyn has had time to process like in, which he kind of does in air quotes because he's looking for charges to get pressed. And then tomorrow, why don't you go follow

Did we know this? No, we did not know that Rollins had a degree in forensic science.

Like this is no, she really gives off criminal justice.

Yeah, like this is the only time that's been mentioned. Like this makes her random career change in the season twenty four make a little bit more sense that she's like a professor now, but it doesn't explain why she's also an IT expert. But you know, that's always what I feel like they've leaned in on more than her being a forensic science major, which, by the way, I took forensic chemistry in college because I thought it would be all true crime, and shit, it was hard as fuck.

I think I got like a c It was hard. Anyway.

This asshole is like, he's basically like, why don't you share your experience with her and not me? He didn't like how back in the school just now she tried to tell him, like what it's all about with sexual assault victims. So he's like, you can tell your little girlfriend, how things work at SVU. You don't have to tell me. So again, I don't like this guy, and thankfully this is his last episode spoiler alert, he's only in three.

He's playing dumb.

They're like, oh, it's a matter of something happened to Jos, Like he's being really, you know, mister nice guy, and they're trying to act like they've got his back. They're like, why don't you tell us your side, you know? And he's like, guys, you read her book. We acted out a few scenes. She wanted me to be in control, and he's like the belt was her idea and they're like, I thought you were in control and he's like everything

I gotta go and then he just.

Walks it walks off, and Munch is like, wow, no, charld charges f and I hate this case already. So now we are at Intimate Adventures, which is I guess an erotic bookstore where Jocelyn is doing another book signing and some lady is confessing to Jocelyn that this book gave her her orgasms back after her third kid, and Jocelyn's like, cool, cool, cool, next, and then Benson and Rollins roll up and she's like, I'm kind of busy, but then of course talks to them anyway, and they're like, girl,

And then who.

Should strike up a toast at that moment, But Adam Kane he's just suddenly there and he thanks her for unleashing the inner venus within every American woman and every American man is deeply grateful, and Venus I think is like the main character of this book. She starts to freak out now because she's face to face with the sky. She wasn't expecting it. She runs off. She gets to the elevator to leave. Twenty five people get off this elevator and then she's the only one getting on it,

So now top of bac too.

Thank god, we get like graced with a commercial break here, unless you're watching on Hulu, in which case you just keep rolling along. Jocelyn shows up at Benson's apartment because you know, her door's always open, and she's apologizing to Olivia, but she's like, I just I couldn't handle a police station right now, she tells Benson how Adam Kin showed up at her party, he wasn't on the list, he made a toast, and then she's like, he was so angry at me that I went to the cops.

Did you guys tell him that I went to you?

And Benson goes, well, we did send detectives to talk to him, and she's like, so shood.

He's like, why would you do that?

This is all your fault, and then Benson like calms her down, brings her over to the couch and Jocelyn tells Benson basically that he did it again, describes the whole scene that we just saw and says, I froze, I didn't say anything, and then he said.

If you screw with me, you'll be sorry.

After he was done with the second assault on her, and Lives like, are you ready to press charges now? And now we cut to Rollin's watching the elevator footage and I'm like, this guy had to have known there are cameras in elevators and that, like, you don't really have that much time to assault someone before another person gets in there.

It just seems like.

A very ballsy move, and then right as I type that, Rollins goes says the same thing.

She goes, this is brazen.

He had to have known the cameras in the elevators, so they But then Amarro goes, yeah, but he also probably knows that it's Act nine of the book is Elevator Sex, and Tomorrow admits that he read the masterpiece the night before. So Munch says, it doesn't look like she likes it, and Finn goes, but it doesn't look like she's resisting either, and it's like, again season four teen, Finn, what is happening with you today? You're like, stop and frisk? Why didn't you say no? And push him off? Like

That was a tough case, and.

They're like, yeah, he's a Brooklyn DA but he's just requested a like a lateral move to Manhattan, and he's got big brass. And then he kind of makes eye contact with Benson and says ego instead of balls, and he thinks that this kind of high profile case is just the kind of thing that gets Barbara horney. So now we're in arraignment and Barba is like wiping the

Well, also with Barbara, the most popular like gift and photo of his face is from this episode Oh really yeah, where he's like look like determined but sneaky like he does like this.

This is the episode.

And there's also a scene coming up that's a very iconic, you know, Barba seeing that people have asked for us to cover.

Oh my god, god.

So Rollins and Benson shake hands with Barbara, and he's like being very charming. But our girls are skeptical, you know, they like never trust a man right away. So they're updating him on the details, and he's like is she credible? And they're like, well, she's concerned about the optics, but she was assaulted two times. And Barbera's like, I didn't ask if she was assaulted. I asked her she was credible, Like his signature like cutting straight to the point. Then

You might not like me when this is over.

And she's like, I don't like you now, and he's like, love your honesty, bitch, let's talk. So he starts hitting her with questions about her personal life, going all the way back to college. I can't tell how old this girl's supposed to because the timeline gets very weird here. Now Barba's meeting with the boys, and it's munch fin and tomorrow and Tomorrow's like I did some digging, and it turns out that he prays on young girls who are new to the city, but Jocelyn would be the

And then uh oh, Rollins pops in to let them know that Kine has just leaked his monologue for that night's show and it's all over the internet, So he's basically preempting the media spirestorm that's going to come from him getting charged with rape. He's letting everyone know that he is a victim who's about to be thrown into the ring of fire.

Of the millions of men who are accused of sexual assault and are perfectly innocent that we see every year, it's an epidemic. And that's heavy sarcasm, in case anyone's not picking up. We see Jocelyn watching this whole monologue on an iPad in a coffee shop.

She looks stressed.

Kate admits that he did have sex with Jocelyn on this monologue, but he does not, you know, admit to it being obviously an assault and the gang is like, pretty smart of him to get out in front of it, right out of Letterman's playbook, And Munch is like, yeah, but Letterman didn't rape anyone.

And we're gonna get more on that later. Yeah. I was fucked up that he said her name.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well it's a full like it's a it's witnessed intimidation and like it's it's fuck ducked.

Yeah, And who led him into that party? I know?

Well, he reminds me of like a Bill Maher kind of guy. And Bill Maher, you know, just dropped his agency because they didn't invite him to an Oscar party.

Yeah, and I'm I mean, I guess I'd be pissed if I was a client for over thirty years and I probably make them a you know, some money. Yeah, but he is a smarmy guy, right, Yeah, maybe it's Bill Maher because he has this other story where on his rider he says he needs like a limo and he went to perform at a college and they didn't have a limo and he said, I'm not going and

Diet cokes are your limo, and they're a little bit easier.

I'd say, that's a little bit more of a reachable, attainable goal and if somebody won, but.

I have that, but you know what that I'm thinking about it.

I recently just did a college and I arrived and I was like, you know, I'm here, where's the car? Like, where are you? And the students went, We're on our way. We'll be there in forty five minutes. And I said, I'm gonna grab an uber and she responded, no, don't do that. We're already on our way. And I said, I'm not waiting forty five minutes. You should have planned better. Was there a confusion with my flight time?

H huh?

And she went we were in class and I said, well, you can turn right back around. I am taking an uber. That is for I'm not waiting forty five minutes for you. It's like insanity. But then in my head I'm like, yeah, I guess that's twenty one. Indeed, I didn't mind. I didn't mind waiting forty five minutes for a free ride, I guess.

But like they're probably like, she's gonna be so excited we're picking her up.

Yeah, okay. So Barba basically is like Cane forced our hand. We have to strike back. So Munch and Fins show up at a restaurant to bring him in, and Munch calls him Citizen Kane and he's like, come on, guys, I can come in tomorrow with my lawyer.

We don't have to do this here.

And they're like, if you want a privacy, you shouldn't have popped off on the internet, bitch, and they purp walk him out of the restaurant. Paparazzi bulbs all a flashing, and he starts blaming the NYPD for the quote unquote Hooker scandal and says the NYPD is just trying to distract from their big scandal. And he says, the court of public opinion, baby, that's my wheelhouse, and Thin goes taking down rapists, that's ours.

Banging on a.

Good one, A good one, A great way to end the midpoint of the show. So now top of Act three were in court and not only is this the episode that blesses us with the first appearance of Raphael Barba, it also is the first appearance of the legendary Rita Calhoun played by Elizabeth Marvel, who we've all seen in a million different things, and Homeland is one that I love her in. She in House of Cards, she's just in everything, and she is of course defending this asshole.

Now.

She's going to move to have the book admitted, he says, which will eliminate rape shield laws, which are the rape field laws are meant to limit victim's sexual history as evidence in sexual assault trials, but if the book gets admitted, then those won't apply, and Thenson says yeah, and they're going to find out whatever lover inspired this book, who's going to testify that she likes it from behind?

And then game over.

It really is so fucked up how you just have to be a perfect victim, Like you can be assaulted and then like somebody can just bring in an ex boyfriend that's like, yeah, one time we did a fucked up sex move and it's like, well you wanted it then, Like it's just really wild. How you have to be squeaky clean perfect to get any justice, it feels like, and Harris said, well, why don't we find this guy first? So Rollin says, well, Jocen went to Silver Spring College

And it's like, why.

Don't you just ask her who her ex boyfriend is before you hit the road for Soft Shell Crab down in Maryland.

But they're on their way.

So now Finn and Muncher and Maryland chatting with some dorky soccer coach who explains that he and Joson were together for four years.

He thought they were going to get married.

She broke up with him because she had so much going on with the book, but she never really told him what the book was about, and he only found out about the content of the book.

From looking at his mother's copy of it. And he's like, yeah.

It was kind of weird because everyone started asking me like personal questions about my sex life when the book came out, and like they were like, oh, yeah, they asked you about, you know, rough stuff and domming and he's like yeah, and the thing is, we didn't do any of that. He's like, we mixed it up. Sometimes I was on top, sometimes she was. And it's pretty funny. This guy did not mix it up. And he says Jocelyn told him that he was her first and that

Like what's what of it?

And they're like, it's just kind of weird that you went from being his intern to the producer of a food show in two months? And did you know that he was only allowed to have male interns after you left? And she's stonewalling, but like, you know, you can tell she knows exactly what they're getting at. And they're like, babe, remember how you had to come to work with a broken wrist and bruises on your neck. And she does have a very good fishtail braid going on in her hair,

Yeah, belt shit, Yeah, alter your moral yeah.

Like honestly the sweetest guy until he gets a belt in his hand and then he's fucking doctor Juckyl. So is that the bad one or mister Hyde. I don't remember, actually do Maybe doctor Jeckell's the good one.

I don't know. I'm sure you'll tell me. Back to the college where all the clues are.

Tomorrow is now chatting up Jocelyn's advisor, A professor, and she doesn't know how Jocelyn could have gone into BDSM. She said, there's not really any older professors having affairs with younger kids these days, which seems like a weird thing to dig for granted, And then on his way out, basically she's no help. And so on his way out he notes her harpsichord and she's like, oh yeah, they say it was.

Owned by Albanoni.

And Amaro's like, yeah, yeah, what's his most stream song on Spotify? My wife loves it, and she goes his adagio, it's his most beautiful work. And get this, he didn't even write it. His biographer composed it two hundred years later. And Tomorrow's like, no kidding. And I can't tell if he's even picking up on clues or not, because he kind of has like a dumb guy face a lot of the time. But back at the squad room, they're gathered around the bulletin board and it looks like Jocelyn's

We're not getting any of them.

It looks dark as hell in the squadroom, like I'm assuming it's night. But then they get a call from Tomorrow and he's like in Maryland in broad daylight, with like a college clock tower behind him. It's very jarring, and he goes, I think we might be asking the wrong questions. I need another day, and Barba's like, Nope, going to the grand jury now, and like hangs up.

She's like, she's an academic.

She just sucks, like her life is fully falling apart on top of two rapes, and it's like, why don't you go to the cops. It's like, I guess we should just show this episode to everyone that says it.

I know, I know, because they did dig and they found out stuff, and no one is perfect. So none of this really like matters in terms of getting assaulted, But you know.

I think it does help Barbara to examine though. Oh yeah, I feel like this really helps him on the stand bring down this motherfucker.

Yeah, he figures out a way around it. Because it's a TV show.

Unfortunately, I feel like in real life it would have been like okay, taste, like no one's gonna believe you, but he's a wonder. He's a you know, a magic lawyer.

I also hate that they put all lies in one category, yeah, where it's like, well, you actually didn't graduate school, so you're a liar all the time, you know, Like right, people lie, everyone lies.

Yeah, one time you lied about your age to get into a bar, so clearly you're lying about your assault, like it's wild. We find out Professor Jobson is an academic, was worried about her reputation. Basically what she told Tomorrow, I don't want to be associated with that, you know, smut, And Jocelyn admits I own ninety thousand dollars in college debt. The year before this book came out, I made twenty six hundred dollars writing like it is a tough fucking business.

I know plenty of fucking people who do that. I know plenty of comedians.

Who talk about sex constantly and make it their brand when I know for a fact they are prude as hell and not super sexual. People do it all the time people come up with, you know, characters and brands for themselves. So she says that she was into having sex with Caine that night and that it was fun until he started hurting her, which is like literally the same exact words that girl Katie said. And then she

That, it's like, nobody is doing this for Clout.

It's insanity well, the easy way to prove that is to be like, Okay, tell me the victims' names. Tell me who accused Bill Cosby? Right, tell me they did it for attention and fame? So tell me yeah, yeah, yeah, so true, so true. Tell me who all these women are that have come forward? Who is the person that accused Kobe Bryant?

Yeah?

And where's their their MTV cribs? Where's the where they used all the money and fame that they got. I want to see their gorgeous house that they live in and their successful lives, a free of trauma.

Yeah, it's just it's like you can't think of one person crazy.

You're right, that's so true. Say the name. So uh oh, it's Rita's turn. This is not going to be pretty.

She's pointing out how many times Jocelyn is lied about writing this book, like you've been lying for months, You've been going on book tours, interviews every single time.

You're lying about right now this book.

And then she plays the clip from the interview on Raising Kine where Jocelyn says, you know, women do it all these days, and sometimes they just want men to throw them down and take control. So you know the fact that that is said on an interview the night of the assault.

Is you know, damning. I guess to a jury.

She goes at Jocelyn pretty hard about lying about sex for money, But the argument is pretty empty, like I said, when you consider she could have stayed quiet and kept making tons of money, but she spoke out and lost everything. Anyway, when Calhoun is done, it does not look good for Jocelyn. Now we've got Professor Dobson on the stand and she admits to writing the book, And I'm like, what's funny is that fifty Shades is honestly supposed.

To be super bad writing.

Like everyone I've heard is said, it's absolutely horrible writing. And it's funny that it's like this very erudite, like educated academic is like putting in references to Albaloni and stuff like.

I don't think that's how fifty Shades really looks.

But I wonder how a good writer would write a series of erotic fiction. If you have any recommendations for a series of erotic fiction that is actually well written, let me know.

My friend Jackie.

Does a stream called Akatar where they talk about I think it's called a cord of thorns and roses.

I might be getting the C word wrong, but it's smut.

It's like erotic stuff, and they love talking about it and they get a ton of people are into it.

It's a huge thing.

But I don't know if they would say She always tells me the world building is amazing, but I don't know if she would say that the writing is awesome. So if you have any RECs, please message me. I'd love to read some horny literature that's actually good.

I know when we were fresh to America, my mom read Danielle Steele. Yeah, yeah, daniel Steel is huge. The font of her name on those books iconic.

I can see it in my mind right now, right as you said that, I was like Danielle and I used to like have bookstores, Like I feel like my dad would always take me to bookstores and just look for an hour, and I would usually just read Sweet Valley High books, but sometimes I'd go over to the and like just look at the like horny covers and be like, what's this? You know, but it always felt

And she's quite a good actor. She's on these shows meaning Jocelyn, not even meaning Anna Klemsky, like, she's on these shows being like I don't know, time me up, timey down, like you know, all this like double entendre. And she's really not into any of that shit at all. So she's doing a good job.

And she's the woman says, well, I'm a laughing stock in my field now, and it's like, whatever, bitch, laugh all the way to the bank. Like you don't have to ever teach a class to board college students ever again.

You can literally live out your.

Fantasies you can buy a piece of Albanoni's ashes if you want. You have so much money from writing these books. But she says she's testifying because she's sickened by this guy using her words as a smokescreen for assault. And now it's Calhoun's turn and she goes, but everyone thought that Jocelyn was the writer, right, and that these were

Like it's it's completely about.

Power and like liking that someone is scared and that you're controlling someone and like hurting them, you know, Like we always talk about Louis c k like he wanted to just jerk off in front of women. He could have hired sex workers instead. He wanted to make these other female comedians feel weird and awkward, like that was part of it for him.

So yeah, all of the like defense stuff and all the excuses, they're just so retro.

Yeah, like they're so old timing. They've been debuned, they're done. Yeah.

Yeah, just because you have fantasies and dress like doesn't mean you want to be rape Like. I just the mental gymnastics these fucking rape apologists to do.

It's insane. Yeah. Yeah.

So he's saying, yeah, I get ladies because I have a hit show, but I'm also kind of okay to hang out with. I'm told he's really smarmy and shitty and he's doing a great job this actor. Because I do hate him and want to kill him. He always follows his partner's lead. He says, if they want dominance, he does that.

He says Jocelyn wanted a mutually satisfactory rough sex game that she initiated, and then Barbara goes to cross examine, but it's late, so the judge is like, cool, at Barba, you'll talk tomorrow.

Barba's like begging for it. He's like, can I just do thirty minutes? Can I just run at this guy for thirty minutes and then pick up in the and she's like, I have to go. So in Barbara's office, he thinks that the professor's testimony kind of canceled out Jocelyn's.

He's calling it a draw.

So they're sort of not in a good place or a bad place, but it's not, you know, looking great for a win. So now it's Benson, Rolins, Munch, and Fin and the latter two do not have any good news. They're like, we can't find any of the other victims, so we can't introduce any prior bad acts.

And Barba's like, well, maybe we can get him to open the door. So back in court, Barba's questioning Kane. He finally gets his moment and he asks, this is like, so, this is the scene I'm talking about. This is like probably why Raoula Sparza stayed on the show for so long and why people immediately loved Barbara, because this is one of the most wild courtroom scenes we've ever seen, and it's his first fucking episode.

I truly forgot about Like when I saw this, I was shocks because I knew, you know, he always tapped dances and does something great.

But yeah, I mean this is up there with the girl taking off her shirt or Gray like getting that guy to stand up with a bone, you know, and saying that's not an objection you're raising you know, So this is to me a top ten court moment. He asks Kane what excites you about having sex with Jocelyn? And the guy's like, what excites anybody about having sex? And then you know, Barba's like, was it the belt? And then the guy's face changes and he goes, oh,

Why would she?

And he goes, she wanted to role play, and Barba's being super tricky. He's kind of talking to this guy like, oh my god, I like don't know anything about kinky stuff.

Could you like tell me about it?

Like that's kind of his vibe of how he's getting this guy to like He's like, I'm just like a regular meat and potatoes missionary guy. Can you tell me how you know you get into kinky stuff?

Like how do you start that?

Do you just take your belt off and then just give her a few hits with it, and then he prods so hard. He goes so like where does the buckle go? And the guy's like, what do you want me to like show you? And Barba's like kind of and Calhoun objects and Barba's like, come on, I'm curious, and the judge allows it, which.

Is the funny.

Jared was sitting next to me when I was watching this reading and he.

Goes, are you kidding me right now? Like what judge is gonna do this?

So Barbara takes off his own belt, puts it around his neck, and he's like, show me how she likes it, and he keeps saying like he's trying to get this guy horny in court about the belt, and he just keeps goading him, like come on, pull on it, show me how you like it, Show me how you like How hard do you like to pull it? Da da

Anyway, Right at that moment.

She sorry, I know I'm behind, but it is also just so rich that the whole time it's like, you're a liar, You're a liar, You're a liar.

And how easily it was proven.

Nah, bitch, you're the liar, you know what I mean to the guy, like it was.

Just such sweet justice.

Yeah, like you thought you were gonna fucking get away with it. You thought you were gonna fucking get away with it. Yeah, acting like she was the pro as you fucking did that, fin.

No, and a guy like this, there's no fucking way that it's just Jocelyn and these three interns, Like, there's no way, Like, but people don't come forward for powerful guys like this because they know he's gonna go on TV and do a fucking monologue and ruin their lives.

Cause even the elevator that's bold, like everyone's you know, it's like at.

A party, it's public, the doors can open at any moment.

It is wild too that it's like, did they show that video to the jury? Like I'm sure they did, But it's like that, whether you agree to the night before or not, he clearly like shoves her in the elevator, and I don't know, but like Finn said, I guess she wasn't actively resisting. So maybe the jury needs to be handheld through exactly how victims react. But Benson's little convo with this sky Harris ends because she gets a text that the jury's in, and that's the last time

I know they were talking about four the July. It must be summer.

She is tanned, baby, and out on the court steps they're all chatting, and Barba's like, yeah, the jury just finally saw that sicko for who he really was.

And Jocelin's like, like, what do I even do now?

My rep is in the toilet, and Barbo goes, if there's one thing about America they love a comeback, and then Live gives her sort of like a sad look and like that's dick wolf baby.

Well for men, they love it. For men, they love it.

But we are being positive to Lindsay Lohan right now, But it's usually like the Robert Downey juniors.

You know, like why own a rider?

She stole from a couple stores and took years for her reputation. Yeah, Robert Downey Junior, I mean Rob low I think.

Made a sex tape with a mind underage.

Yeah, it's and we're like, god, yeah, I want to do Atkins because of him.

You know, it's like it is why.

I Josh Roland allegedly like assaulted Diane Lane and he's in fucking dune and hosting U S and L I mean truly, yes, we love a come back for men, but also for men's back. Kathy Griffin's back, she's torn after seven I fucked up. I'm just adding to the list of positive women who have come back after year.

Lindsay Lohan took over a decade, I know, you know what I mean. It's it is kind of wild how long it takes for women and the men.

Maybe it takes a bit. But like Robert Downey Jr. I don't know how.

He's likable at all. Is he actually worth it? Like, well, what has he done? He was just a drug addict, you know, good for him. I'm glad he's sober, but I hate his attitude. Oh really, Like this has nothing to do with drug use, you know, sobriety's hard addictions.

Hard drugs are fun. He's just smart. I hate him.

He takes himself too seriously, Like anytime there's a joke or anything in an award.

He's just so uppity. He's uppity. I don't like interesting. I met him one let me.

Know if you guys are Robert Downey Junior heads. I from a distance really don't like him. I think he is iron Man without the fun suit.

Like I don't think that's think anybody has to love RDJ. But I'm curious that the people who do.

I'd like to know if I'm wrong that he's like a smarmy asshole.

When I met that, he was nice when I met him, and he and his wife, he's very obsessed with his wife, so like I love that him and his wife are like a duo, like she's never not with him, Like they're very tight.

Well, yeah, she's the one who got him sober, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she put in a lot of work.

And I thought you would like that he thanked his stylist at the Oscars.

I didn't see that.

Nobody ever has done that. And he thanked his stylist, Erica Cloud.

Yeah that's great. I think people have done that, but it is great that he's done that. Yeah, I think it was like no one had done it at the Oscars.

Or something like that. Like as I read something about it that was like it was unprecedented for a stylist to be called out whatever, But.

Yeah, people love that once iow got that attention from the assistance. I remember when Schumer won her Emmy, she brought up hair and makeup. So now everyone's like, hmm, what lower level in pat can I think? So everyone thinks I'm really relatable and down to earth and I treat people NICs.

Can I just give a shout out to Crafty please? Craft Services get up here. They've got like rice Chrispy treats. They're throwing them out to the audience.

And thank you to my nanny. I could not have been here without your support. And hell, you know, all right.

Well we're going to take a quick break and we'll be back with crime not even.

A crime, not a crime. It's kind of nice. Well a crime. It is a crime, So this is a nice day for us. I'll be honest. You know, it's very rare that the episode is worse than the real crime. Yes, no one is trapped in a basement, no one's buried under concrete, no one's in a you know, a human trafficking ring. Trying to escape and it is just a little extortion.

It's nice. It's really been nice.

Also, Kara did mention fifty Shades of Gray, and that came out June twentieth, twenty eleven, and this episode came out October tenth, twenty twelve. Yeah, so just like the timing. But that book, you know, it was on the charts, I think for weeks. It was crazy. Everyone was talking about it and our society is so not into books. When I googled, like release date fifty Shades of Gray,

It just also I think says a lot about like like how sort of puritanical we are and repressed as a society that like this book about like I don't know, he ties her up and stuff. Everybody's like, ooh, I read it in the bath when my kids are in bed, like and all that.

You know.

It was like so like, but I want everyone to be in touch with their sexuality, of course, but I just wish we were in general, and it wasn't like this sort of like shittily written fan had to bring everybody out of their sexual shells.

Yeah, but you know it was a nice way for the elders to get involved.

And hey, it brought me Book Club, which you know is one of my favorite movies and franchises, so I'm happy for it.

Yeah.

And so this and they mentioned his name in the episode, is about David Letterman and this guy, Joe Halderman.

And this story has everything.

There's jealousy, extortion, cheating on air, apologies, pretty fun. Vanity Fair called it an explosive triangle Burkett's ambition, Halderman's bitterness, and Letterman's self loathing. So thank you for that drama, Vanity Fair and Burkett. It's Stephanie Burkett. We'll get into that. So, David Letterman, if you don't know, look it up. I mean, what are we talking about here? A legend? Yeah, I was a Leno girl famously, and I apologize, but.

I never really was into anybody late night. But I used to read those top ten list books and crack my little eleven year old ass up, Like I thought the Top ten was the funniest thing ever. And if I would be at somebody's house that had them, I'd just be like I'm not talking to anyone, and I would just be like reading those I.

Loved them, and he has beloved I was he won the rating, like he was the top dog in terms of ratings, and I think like respect and some people love Letterman.

I think also what I love about Letterman is like he did kind of tease people a little bit. It's like now you know, now there's like a thing where people talk about like prom king comedy with a lot of.

The talk show hosts. They're just like, I can't believe I'm meeting you.

This is so cool, You're so awesome, and like it used to be Letterman being like what's this all about? You know, like being a little bit more Carson, like I think in the teasing and having like a rapport with the famous people like didn't Lady Gaga and Letterman like famously like really hit it off and like love to like rip each other and stuff.

Maybe I have no idea, No, it could. It could very well be.

He had a lot like whaty Harrelson, We'll talk about later, Like he's been on it.

I think it's twenty like hundreds of times or something.

Oh wow, Like he has guests that come on dozens of times.

He really does. Can you are you googling most frequent guests? Oh no, I was googling Gaga Letterman. Oh I'm curious who the guests.

Regis Philbin It says one hundred and fifty total appearances.

Oh, he loves Julia Roberts.

That's that's one that he loves, Robin Williams, Tom Hank Yeah, people, Oh, Amy Darris, who doesn't love her?

So?

Oh Howard Stern but like Cher called him an asshole, and just famous moments. You know, the titties, Drew Barrymore's titty is on the desk, you know Madonna, there's just he Yeah, he had something. I was unfortunately on the NBC side. But he has loved and you've been living under concrete if you do not. I have never heard of David Letterman. Or maybe you're young, maybe you like Conan. Okay, so what does he do now?

He has like Netflix shit where he interviews people, right, and he's got a big ass beard.

Oh and I'm sorry to bury the lead. David Letterman lives in my town.

Oh okay, So I passed his house all the time and we would see him driving. He did not have a good reputation in our town. Though he would turn off his lights on Halloween, no trigger treaders. He would like drive his car kind of like fast through town, like not really talk to people, Like he didn't really have a great rep in New Canaan.

Well, after doing some research on this, and I'm not diving into it at all, but he's had a lot of crazy stalkers.

Okay, well, I guess that makes makes sense.

A lot of stalkers showing like camping out on his tennis courts, like he lives on well, now he's I think in Westchester or something because on a golf like.

Yeah, he may have moved. He may have moved. He he had a house where I when I grew up.

He was also had a house in Saint Barts. I mean, this motherfucker's rich. Like I didn't realize how rich he was. He has like five or six houses a Tribeca loft. But he did have a lot of obsessed, weird fans, and I actually think we forget about that with all celebrities, Like the amount of stalkers and obsessed people that probably try to get to them that we don't know about is astronomical.

As my guess.

Yeah, there was a lady that tried to break into his house to New Canaan, and they booked her on my family friend's lawn because they like wanted to get her off the property. My family friend that I used to babysit for it live right across the street.

Oh my god.

Yeah, his house wasn't very attractive either, but I think it was like I think he probably liked how it was like not a ton of windows. It was like it was it looked like the back of the house was the front of the house, do you know what I mean. So I think he kind of probably what you're saying makes sense. He did have like a lot of famous stalkers.

Yeah, and a lot of what I was reading about him is like, like I mentioned this self loathing, like he had low self esteem and hated himself and stuff like that. Like I guess he was some kind of weirdo. But you know, he has a lot of homes and is still working to this day. Okay, Joe Helderman, this guy, you know, he's not some gremlin stalker that I'm talking about from the depths of the swamp coming up. Actually a respected guy at CBS he was a producer in

That's his baggage, war zones and alimony.

Yeah, but he had covered conflicts in eighty six countries. He worked with Dan Rather a bunch, and he was he was really known to be the guy like he was there for the Saddam Hussein interview and stuff like, you know, really good. But April nineteenth, nineteen ninety six, he had hit his limit doing like all these wild news things and went to forty eight hours. So I apologize,

She was mean to him.

And she started as a writer's room intern, and then after graduating college, she got a low level CBS job, splitting her duties between the Late Show and forty eight hours Hello, And at forty eight hours she had met Joe, who was seventeen years older than her and a producer, and in that stint they did start dating. So she is dating and now living with this man, but hated working at forty eight hours. She missed the late show, so in two thousand and four she got this assistant

And that was in Vanity Fair.

So Joe's point of view, and this is told to a friend of his and a colleague named Bob Arnott Arno.

I don't know, do you know who this is?

No, but I think it would be Arno, probably Arno, really, that's wild French maybe.

And then sometimes they say he's a doctor, sometimes not. I'm not putting it in front of his name. You need to prove it to me. I don't know who you are. But this motherfucker was out there chatting. He is like such a gossip. So this is a Joe told his friend, and his friend went on Good Morning America, you know what I mean, and Vanity Fair and told it. So we have to take this point of view with

On these trips as well. Ooh fuck. So they would go on these trips. She was just all around town.

So he did confront her after reading the diary and was like, why are you And so she promised to end the fair and convinced him not to break up with her. Then August two thousand nine, this guy Joe sees the two of them embrace and he didn't like it and it just pissed him off. So basically, like Dave gave a ride home to Brittany and in a Tesla and this is oh nine, so this is like Tesla's were different. What Yeah, it was an electric Tesla

So that's like what got him pissed.

So then September ninth, two thousand and nine, he goes and gives David Letterman's driver a sealed envelope that's waiting outside of Letterman's Manhattan home and he said, give this to Letterman and it's marked privileged and confidential, which is funny because why would you write that so big on a thing, Like if it's a secret, it should say like bills on it, you know what I mean. Like it's so funny, but also who is this driver that would give it to I'd be like, get the fuck

And I wonder if.

This would be the service you would get if you were anybody, but like, Letterman is so beloved, so they really got move in on this. And Joe had demanded a two million dollar check to keep all of this secret, so the mat Manhattan District Attorney's office hands him like a fake two million dollar check. Joe goes deposits the check in October and he was arrested the next day, released, of course, on bail two hundred thousand dollars.

So October first, two.

Thousand and nine is when Letterman goes on Late Night. I remember this moment and he kind of like confesses all of this, and I think that's the only thing the episode took from Letterman is that on air thing, because there was no belts, there's no rate but years coming out and even now in the future, you know, with me too and different powers and hooking up with bosses and interns and all of that.

So yeah, there is a lot of ethical stuff. I remember this too, though. I remember this him going on TV.

So what do you remember.

I just remember being like, this is so weird, how somber he is.

What year is it. It's two thousand and nine. Yeah, I don't remember.

I probably was reading about it on fucking blogs. And shit because it was like Perez Hilton Times of twenty four hour news cycle and a celebrity gossip Like I probably was like, but I just remember him being so somber and being like this is weird, Like this isn't normally how you see David letter.

Right, he was doing bits and the crowd still kept laughing and clapping because they didn't understand. So I did watch it, and he had guests after, which was shocking to me, Like what ay Harrold sitting Kim Kardashian, we're guests. I kept figuring it out, like did he do it at the end? How did he continue the show? Like what's going on? But they love him. The audience loved him,

I'm sorry, Yeah, of course you do.

And I've talked to this person about it and stuff, but you know, there was kind of a reputation where if you fuck Dave.

You got promotions.

So you know, we can talk about like ethical implications and stuff. But this episode we watched is so horrific and I just feel isn't that? So he told the Late Night Show on October first that he had sexual relationships with female members of his staff. He talked about the extortion, the two million dollar check, and the story started out with He's like, listen, I have a story to tell you. I had to go downtown today and testify in a grand jury. I have received a package.

He really like milked it.

So he talked for eight minutes before he brought up the affair. So for eight minutes he's just setting the scene of the blackmail, the process, the extortion, that they have evidence of dirty things that he's doing, and they're.

All laughing, they're clapping like it is.

You know, they have awkward moments, but they're still in it because it's David.

You know, they're excited to be there.

I must not have watched the whole thing because I remember just him being like, you know, but I don't think I watched an eight minute Joe okafon.

And even after he confessed, there were bits. I mean, he got an applaud break. He straight up said I had sex with staff and there was an applaud break it.

It really was wild.

So, like I said, there was guys, I did watch it, but the first state minutes, yeah about the DA the envelopes, all the dark shit, and then he does say, I straight up I did it, and he said it would be embarrassing if it were made public, perhaps it would especially for the women.

And so people loved that joke. I can't believe it.

Wow, yeah, you show it's like nine minutes in like fifty seconds and at the end he goes Woody Harrelson coming up next. I mean, it is wild, but there there were bits and confusion, absolutely, and.

And it continued for days.

You know, that was like on a Monday, and he was making jokes Throughout the week, like October fifth, two thousand and nine, he did a joke about the weather, saying, if you're starting to feel the chili fall weather, take heart that it is far far chiller in the in his home, What.

Far chiller in my or something like that.

The audience is sympathetic to him, and I guess. Throughout the week he also made nods of how he's like bash Bill Clinton and the Spitz, you know, Elliott Spitzer and all these guys, and how now it's him. And on the next Monday he comes in and he did a joke about, oh, this weekend, I was raking it, raking my hate mail, shit like that. And he also he did take stuff seriously. He apologized to the staff. He talks about how horrible it was and how how hurt his wife was and how it's you know, mean

Wow.

So it's like, why I don't understand you've been not married this whole time? Why would you get married at this moment and then do like I know he didn't think he would get extorted, but it's just confusing. You were together for since nineteen eighty six. Just do the Kurt rustle of it all with Goldie, you know? So, Like I said, it's cheating and their adults, but also

I don't know why I wrote that and thought it was important. I just I liked it.

And it goes on to say that the host did foster a vibe of workplace sexual misconduct. Like I said, women who had sex with him did have better opportunities. Allegedly, I feel dangerous talking about any of this. And he did the rigamaroles. He sat down with Oprah with his friend regis, you know what I mean, Like he made the rounds.

This was everywhere, Now Joe, what happened to Joe?

So at first he pled not guilty, but he was facing fifteen years for extortion. And you know, there was so much media attention from October until like the final sentencing. There was months of so much in the media. So he ended up actually pleading guilty to attempted grand larceny. His lawyer said to CBS News that the scheme was fueled by both financial problems and romantic jealousy after reading

You get to just chat to America.

And so he began his prison sentence met in May of two thousand and ten. He served four months of his six month Sentenceman did not appear in court at all, and also the deal included four and a half years probation, a thousand hours of community service, and five hundred of those hours will be in a Connecticut homeless shelter. And I guess thank you ABC News for that detail. And he was at Rikers. Okay, so he got out for

I have not talking about people remember this.

Yeah, and Stephanie, you can't find any of her appearances on the internet. Her segments have been scrubbed from the history, unwritten, like unwritten from the show's history. There was one was it Vanity Washington Post. There was some sort of an opinion piece that talked about how sad it was that her whole tenure on that show was scrubbed away because she was such a great correspondent and they had such great chemistry and it's like she's ceases to exist in

That's another tie in with the episode is like we just talked about it, like.

America loves a comeback. Look at this fucking guy gets out of jail, immediately gets another job, no problem. David Letterman saw no problems, like had nothing wrong. This girl had to leave entertainment. I mean, she's a lawyer. She's not like canceled or dead or anything. But like, you know, it's like, fucking what we just talked.

About, being on the Late Show is probably a great fucking gig. You know, he was paying for her fucking college. It's yeah that you're right. The guy went because David Letterman's beloved. This guy tried to extore David Letterman and he got a job right away, straight out of Rikers, And yeah, it is.

It's wild.

And it's just like she was a pawn between this guy, you know what I mean, Like this guy was like I'm jealous, but also like she's dat, she's hooking up with these old ass losers. This guy was seventeen years older than her, with paying two alimony payments, he had two ex wives. Yeah, he's paying over six thousand dollars in alimony. It's nuts, it's nuts a month a month. But yeah, so she saw something in him. Lived in a house in Connecticut. I mean, she obviously has weird taste. Well,

It's light, it's nice. Yeah, it's a little light. You know, a few months in jail.

We don't have a guest today, so let's pop right into that post mortem.

Baby. I hated seeing the belt. I really didn't like it.

She was she's such a good actress, like you really felt her on the stand. And this is one that I actually haven't seen that much and I never really remember. And then when I remember, I go, oh god, nothing.

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a tough one.

I mean I think it's like as like in so many episodes of this show that they highlight is like you can kind of stop sex whenever you want. You can stop any kind of like physical activity, you know, anytime you want, and like that, everyone tries to act like yeah, like.

I just don't even understand why you would be like what that's it.

It's like is that or it's sick?

It's yeah, or like or anything like she wrote a book about sex, so she loves it. She had posted a photo on Instagram where she's wearing a skimpy dress, so she loves it. It's like anything that's like outside

That was what the girl at the face she was saying, because were talking about Merrilyn M.

Manson and she was just like, I don't know. I mean, she was an adult.

He didn't she didn't have to go in and do that, like it was an sn M type thing. And I'm like, yeah, but he is a freak, Like I don't know, but wait, did you hear about the Vinnie from Jersey Shore thing. Have I talked about it on this podcast?

No?

What happened?

So, you know, I'm obsessed with this guy. His podcast is pillow Talk. I don't know why I'm endeared to him so much. I truly have such such a crush on him. His name's Ryan and he has porn stars and sex stirkers on his pod mostly and sometimes they do fuck on the pod. He brought his friend with cancer on and two of his favorite porn stars did have sex with him.

But that's not digress.

So they had a girl on and you know a lot of these porn stars like they fuck famous people, like they fuck all the rappers actors, like that's is in their dms and so like they all have fucked Chris Brown, Like they're all just out there like that's who's fucking celebrities. And so she said that Vinnie from

Like sure, I do not know? Wow, I God, Lisa, nobody is safe.

I thought Vinnie was like the one good guy from fucking Jersey Shore.

Yeah, you would think it'd be the situation or something.

Yeah, yeah, you tell me the situations and this shit like that.

I'm like, yeah, got it tracks, But Vinnie's Vinnie. It's Vinnie oof oof.

And I mean like yeah, not not not to kink shame.

But that's a lot. That's a lot. It's tough. It's tough.

I think you got to do a couple therapy just to figure out why you want that.

I do think that like no judgment, but you know judgment, but.

It's like what your facialist is talking about. It's like, consider what was happening in the real crime or the real like extortion that you talked about in this week's episode. Like sure, this girl is like kind of having an affair with David Letterman. She's an adult, but like he's her boss. There's power dynamics, there's all like does she have the ability to just walk away if she wants to?

We don't know. Well that's what I said to her.

So you know, even if it's not criminal, I'm like, I'm not saying everyone's a criminal, Like it doesn't have to be criminal, But if tons of women all over have the same experience of feeling pressure or giving in or whatever, there is a collective experience and there should be a name for it or a thing or like, yeah, a name for the person who pressures you, like we have sex pest. But like, if if everyone is experiencing it, you cannot dismiss.

It as well. You said it.

You know. It's like if all of us feel uncomfortable at one point of our lives when we're young, then, like we need to address it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

But whatever, I just yeah, but this is like a harrowing episode. Also, I guess, like, figure out a fool proof plan. If you're going to just write erotica for your college professor, let's figure out a backstory. Let's figure out where you learned all of your knowledge about Uh, what's the guys.

Yeah, you didn't like that she didn't have enough lies planned, she.

Didn't have enough ries plan, she didn't have enough lies plan. Like, if you're going to go on talk shows stuff, people are going to ask you where you got into all that stuff?

Like I just wanted.

I was assuming that these two smart women would have had more of a fool proof plan to keep the deception alive. But I really hope that in the extended universe of SVU, Jocelyn has started writing, you know, her own fiction and it's going well and.

People like it.

Yeah, you know, should we get into what would Sister Peg do? Yes, this is our weekly segment where we direct you towards some kind of resource that'll help you learn a little bit more about what we talked about today, and just apropos of the conversation. We were just having I wanted to highlight this article I found on the Planned Parenthood website called Sexual Boundaries how to Set Them. It's a quick read that helps define sexual boundaries in

And that's that.

That is a good one And next week we will be covering girl Dishonored season fourteen, episode twenty. Thanks so much for listening or obsessed with all of you and I like seeing you guys on the streets all around. I mean at the Amtrak in New York and in Baltimore. I ran into listeners at the train station. You know, they're everywhere to go.

I gotta go to my target more often. That's the only place people see me.

We love you, guys, and that's the scary.

I do get a message sometimes and it's like, oh, I saw you at this place, but I didn't say anything. I'm like, what was I alone? Were you just watching me alone? Like interrupt? I like I can't. I'm like nervous. Hi, it's my hair brush, Like it's stressful, Like what if someone sees me when I do have amiltown, you know, Like it is a scary, but.

Yeah, message us, email us, we love you guys, See you next week.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

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