The Third Guy w/ Rick Gonzalez

Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.

I'm one of your hosts, Lisa Traeger. I'm the other host, the other half of the circle. My name is Kara Klink. And you guys know what we do here. We talk about an episode of SVU, We talk about the true crimeas based on and then we interview a super cool star from the show, and we are do.

You think of Seinfeld every time I go Hello?

No?

Okay, why what's that?

It's an episode where Jerry has like a voice for his girlfriend's stomach where and he kept going hello. She found out about it and was like so offended and was like, how dare you? And then she goes, you need to choose, like you that saying hello or being with me, and he goes, I need to think about it. And then Elaine and Kramer and Everyone's just like, we're actually sick of it. Please stop fucking saying.

Oh, I don't remember that episode. That's crazy but.

Then but then he says it one more time to really annoy her, and she runs off and slams the door.

I think of hello, Hello, Hello with ru Paul sometimes when we say that, but that's yeah, but we are dying to say hello, hello, Hello to all of you guys in person.

We are on tour this fall.

Just a reminder, guys, the tickets in DC are flying, so get those DC tickets because you don't.

Want to do I'm doing stand up in DC too, Please come to that. Yeah, it is.

Before the pod stand up September eighth and ninth, I believe, and then we're doing our show on the tenth. So that's it's my I'm a perfect TMU weekend.

It is because it's my first time in the big room, so it's kind of a t so we really.

Got a packs. Go see Lee's in the big room. Babies, she is one to catch and listen. We're going to be in Atlanta a City Winery on the twelfth, We're going to be in Charlotte on the thirteenth, and rally on the fourteenth. Those are just our September dates. Obviously doing a ton more. Go to Thats Mess Up Live Dot com that tells you all of our dates. Also, Toronto, we're finally coming to you, and we changed our date.

You know what from Global Entry is you have to like put your last five addresses And I was like.

You know what, I'll wait in line. What are the Yeah?

But yes, come see us up from September to December. We're all over the country and we're excited to see you guys. And stay tuned cuz as of the this release of this recording, we will be performing in Chicago. A Chicago show has been announced. We will be there on November fifth. We're so excited. Yeah, and the Chicago venue is Park West, which is a huge fucking deal.

It is awesome there. I've been to concerts there, shows. It's really a staple of Chicago and it's like a huge honor to be there. So I cannot wait. It's a big venue. So from the suburbs, from the city, drive on in. Maybe you live, you know, four hours away.

Do it?

Come and see us. Yeah, I'm so excited about that. Yeah, we love Chicago.

Everything. Well, we have to obviously talk about Jonah Hill. It would be psychotic if we didn't, like.

Yeah, we do, we do, we do. I've been like, I've been reading the context.

The funny thing is anyone defending that behavior because it's like, whatever you think about it. But I guess it boils down to if you believe that men should tell women to not be around other men and address modestly, then you see nothing wrong with this. But I'm really shocked by all the Jonah Hill defense.

It's like, isn't he a tour If you don't know what we're talking about, Yeah, if you don't know what we're talking.

About, I don't know.

I think he's I actually think Jonahill's kind of beloved. I think people do love him and like being known is a dick, Like we were at a party with him one time.

Yes, but guess what that person's no longer with him because he's a manipi, a little piece of shit.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Like he caused a lot of problems for her, Like this isn't a first thing, but like maybe we know that, maybe that's not common novelge.

He's also not in any Beanie wedding photos. He's not in one wedding photos she posted. She posted like three carousels. He's not in any pictures. Wait, do you know what's really cool about Beanie's wedding? Her flowers are paper.

She's allergic to flowers, so they had all the flowers are made of paper.

She's allergic to flowers. That sucks.

Yeah, well listen if you don't know what we're talking about. Basically, Jonah Hill used to go out with this girl who's like a professional surfer and a model, and she posts photos of herself in bathing suits surfing with guys surfing like whatever, And she released these text messages from their relationship where he was basically telling her like, I don't want you. If you want to be in a relationship with me, I don't want you. Posing scantily I don't

It's well, someone I forgot what because I was I was trying to look at everything on the internet about it, but someone posted, like, we keep saying for men to go to therapy, and I've been against it because not me. This is what I saw online, because therapy has just made men stronger because now they have all this language. And what's crazy is Jonah Hill did a show being

It's especially because you're in the limelight.

You're a person who's very out there and like you're in movies with women, you have relationships with women on sets. I'm sure like she's not telling you what she feels comfortable with you wearing, or you kissing a woman in a movie or whatever like goes on with your career. You know, it's like it's just going from him. I mean, maybe maybe he is. I don't know their relationship, but I doubt it.

No, I fully doubt it. He's so backwards. This is so old, Like he's a swarp. He's always been a swerp. It's just he's never been great. It's like you're a fucking Nepo baby to an incredible career to Scorsese and go fuck yourself.

I don't know.

I Another thing that I saw was like, also, these men, they don't go for subservient women.

It's not like like you can find women that believe in this.

You can find women that believe in pressing modestly and serving your husband.

Like there are women that exist these types. Some men don't want that.

They want to date a powerful, cool, baddie of a woman. I don't use battye, but that was one of the tiktoks I watched. But it's like they get a battye and then they break her down and try to control her, and that's what they get off on. These narcissists, like controlling lunatics. They don't want someone that's grew up religious

But also the key to Palmer, that's what I was just.

Gonna say this joy they followed each other.

Oh really Yeah.

I was talking to a mutual friend about this yesterday. I was like, what's gonna happen? Like, she's a fucking badass, like the fact that she famous. We don't even know her name. It's Keky Palmer's baby daddy. We don't fucking know who you are. Ye, we don't give a shit about you. You're not the man of the house at all. We don't know your fucking name.

So they previously they had, they been previously broken up before this.

No, and one friend thinks it's a PR stunt because she had a speaking engagement that wasn't sold out and now it's sold out.

Wow.

I was.

I was like, why would he publicly like shame her when we like her.

We don't know who you.

Are, right, Well, here's the background on that. In case you're a person that's not living on Instagram like us. Like basically, Kiki Palmer went to an Usher concert, she got brought up on stage.

She's like looking really sexy. She's got this like sheer.

Dress on with like pant panties and underwear underneath it, Like she looks hot. And her baby daddy, whose name is fucking Darius Jackson, I've never heard of him. He posts a tweet or something and goes like, wow, really, come on, you're a mother, like, and then everybody's out there being like, you know, it's totally normal for men to not want the mother of their children like out there clapping like their ass cheeks out everywhere.

But like there's videos on.

His Instagram of her clapping her booty, so it's like she didn't do she gave Palmer like that.

Yeah, point like stop, this happens in port.

But she can show off her body when you control it. She can show off her body when it's like a video you're taking and you post it, but not when she's on stage with Usher.

It's because he.

Felt probably like jealous and like she was, you know, because it was her and Usher like acting all cute or whatever, like flirty, and I just couldn't believe this guy too. So these two stories came out like in the same week, and everybody's just been going nuts, and it's so many men defending the thoughts of the men and so many women being like, what's wrong with you guys?

Like, but this isn't even news.

No, but there's women because I follow this podcast and they like there was like a story's war. But all these women too, are just like whatever he said, what do you wanted? If you didn't like it, you should have just left, Like you're acting like a victim, and this obsession with being a victim needs to stop. And it's like, no, he's a manipulative piece of shit. It's like we know men like this.

It's like there are people that are charming and manipulative and vicious. You're like people are talking about other people like they're just average Joe Schmos, Like there are people who get off on this and this is what they're good at and they like to do this, and I don't understand why we're giving a pass to it. Yeah, and the guys being like it's just a boundary. Like they're like, we wanted.

Men to go to therapy because you know, they keep shooting people. But yeah, they've they've gotten more powerful with all this language because I know a psychopath that I had blocked for years, and a friend just reached out that he's continuing his same old tricks and he was screaming, you're a gaslighter at somebody, and it's like, yeah, they now all learned.

All they had a language.

Yeah, but it's telling the men I do believe that this thing that I own you now and no one else should look at your body because it's mine.

Yeah, but then date another girl. I don't get it. How do you date a surfer and then tell her she can't surf with men or post photos of her surfing? Yeah, and the unstable woman stuff. That's like the guy Cyrus from Summer House Martha's Vineyard, Like he's the one. He's like, I don't want you out with your friends that are single out and about, and a single friend had to be like, do you not think I care about my own safety? Like why do you think I'm not looking out for myself these men?

But he has a wife now or he.

Has like a child now, and so that's another thing that this like other blogger was saying that Sarah's just like bitter and angry that he's now moved on and has a child. But the timing, like the timing of it is weird and like, you know.

Like people are like these are private text messages. It's like she's sharing it to tell women like this is she shared it to be like this is not cool, Like this is not like this behavior might seem like it's a guy because I think some women could take that as like, oh wow, he's like jealous. He doesn't want like he really cares about me so much. He doesn't want anybody else to like have me or whatever, because like he's so obsessed with me.

And it's like, no, this is.

Controlling, bad behavior and couched in fucking boundaries and therapy speak. But the thing that a lot of people are saying about the kiky thing online is they're like, there's no ring on her finger, Like if you were married, this would be a different story. It's like, why would it be a different story if they were married. She can wear whatever the fuck she wants. She's geeky bomber. It's so fucked up.

And like the podcast that I love that was arguing with this other woman who kept defending Jonah and the victim stuff that she also says she goes her posting this could save a lot of women's lives, like this is the beginning of something worse, like you know, like this is important to discuss.

Wow and get out there.

But he's always been aswerp like that, because that's the joke in the movie. This is the end he plays like a super nice, amazing, smiley person because it's so not like the rumors about him, and he's known as being like.

A piece of shit.

Yeah, I bet he doesn't like look PA's in the eye. I bet he doesn't say thank you. I bet he's a bad tipper. I think the worst of him. If you have ever interacted with Jonahill, please dm us, please let us know, Please.

Let us know.

Even though I love super Bad, super Bad is the reason I got into comedy, Like that movie came out and inspired and changed the trajectory of my fucking life. Love super Bad, but I'll stick with fucking Seth Rogan for my stanship from that movie. Yeah, because it's the belief the chief it's the belief that you feel that a woman needs to change to fit what your insecurity is. Yes, and that's what's weird, the defending and the dudes being like whatever, that's just what he feels comfortable with.

If you don't like that, leave And it's like, yeah, but the belief in isn't of itself contributes to inequality.

Yeah, and the disrespect.

Why are you not sharing posts and going, look what a badass my girlfriend is. Look at her fucking surfing. I could never do this, like you know, like it's just I can't. I can't get on board with this massage naw. But Kekey seems to be taking it with no problem. She's like, I'm a mother, she says, Stevie to the bullshit, I don't know what that means. Somebody tell me I'm gonna get sluded. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get flooded with the fucking dms. I just said, slutded.

But I'm glad we got to talk about it together.

If you also have not watched Survival of the Thickest yet, it's been out for two weeks, what are you fucking waiting for? Get on there with Netflix, baby, dm me, I'll give.

You my password. Well, no, they've really cracked down on that.

Oh is that true. I don't that's one of the only ones I don't share.

But that's funny.

Yeah.

No, they've cracked down now, like you have to pay more for each thing you shoe. Yeah, but they're not going to pay the writers. No, I don't know what the money is for though. It is not for the writers. And no, that's for sure. Oh, I forgot I had something to talk about. I knew I had something to talk about that did not involve Jonah Hill's dumbass.

Okay, I you know the Idol.

Everyone was saying it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's bad for women, whatever. So I was like, I'm not going to watch like I have, I have a lot to watch. I don't need to watch it. I was out one night and someone that I really like was like, listen, it's so bad.

It's good. It's so fun. It's so bad. It's good.

And I couldn't sleep with the like the jet lag, I said, up till eight in the morning, I watched all five episodes.

Oh no, and let me tell you, I loved it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

No.

I think it's because.

If no one told me it's not us doing a feminist rant at the beginning of our podcast and then you loving the idol.

No, it's true. I contain multitudes.

The people that I have told this too are like, oh, are you a contrarian?

I go, no, I'm actually quite basic.

I believe I'm very a part of the popular culture. I don't think I would feel this way if it wasn't so panned. But because it was so panned, I expected the worst thing ever, that was so bad I'd be laughing at it, And instead I was like, I'm into it, and the first episode is really good and I learned some stuff from it, and I like the comment and she is also the sexiest woman alive. Wow, And it was so funny. A friend was like, let me check. I'm what does she look like Miley Cyrus?

She looks a little like Kiera Nightly too to me. Oh, not to me.

The other person she feels like to me is who's the other whatever? I can't even think of it. Probably Kate Mau, but her mom looks like Kate Moss. But anyways, the Weekend is a bad actor, like same with Harry Styles in that other movie. It's like, why can't we just have a real actor, like that would be fair, Like they're past, they're do fine. But it's also what's cool. So it's about the music business and industry. And I love Hollywood, I love pop stars, I love rich I

Yeah?

Yeah, And the ending is bad.

And also it's like it was so bad they only did five episodes instead of six, and it's like.

Just give us all the episodes, and I don't want to ruin this.

The only like glaring plot hole to me was in one scene Choicevon is being horrifically tortured, and then the next episode he's fine, He's just like friends and down, not wanting this kid. He gets like he gets tortured and assaulted, and then the next day he's like friends with everyone.

Okay, we're oh.

God, we're getting the twenty five. I met Choiceevon once at drag Race. He's a sweet, sweet person.

Well I didn't meet him, but my funny moment was he was at Jumbo's clown room. But he is so frail that he was his dollar bills weren't flying all the way to the stage stop so but he was behind me, So I kept helping grab the dollars and throwing him to the women.

You were doing like assists, yeah, like layups. He wasn't a pro at throwing the dollars.

Yet, Oh my god, amazing.

The fashion is just so sexy. It is gratuitous. There's like extra nipples when they shouldn't be. There's a straight up fingering till she comes seen while everyone at her work is watching and not into it.

Like it is fucked up. But like that. First, I liked it, I didn't hate it. Sorry. There you have it, guys. Lisa's review of the idol. We have to get started.

Casey just gave us the twenty minute Flag, which is our extra.

We really have to start Flag.

Also, this episode has a lot of language that is outdated in our culture and society, and I did my best to use terms that are appropriate and correct. But I did quote certain characters that speak in a way I would not, So there's a mix smash of that in the episode as I recap, And you know, I did the best I could. I don't want anyone to think there wasn't a lot of thought and care put into it. If there is a lapse or a moment where I don't say something right, that's you know.

I fucked up. But there was a lot of care.

Put into how I and when I said the words first not so.

Yes, just a little heads up going into it.

I don't want to read any angry emails or anything rude. If you have a helpful message for next time, that is great, yeah, but any attitude unacceptable. Yes, it's always a little tough to go back into season one. We know that, but go to Thats Messed Up live dot com. Get tickets to see us live, and please enjoy today's episode.

All Right, we got a season one baby.

That's exciting, you know, because if you're a longtime listener or you're just joining us, it's hard to find season one. You know, guests people, this was over twenty years ago. It's like, it is really difficult. So it is always a treat and a joy to be able to go down into the season one archives. This episode is called The Third Guy. We start with a knock knock. A man in a base jacket is entering an apartment. He's like, hello, Hello, and it's a very lived in place.

You know.

There's a lot of stuff on the door hooks, the door is worn out, the yellow paint magnets on a fridge. Someone I think has lived here for a long time. And he's like, hey, you left the door open.

And he's creeping around and he's like missus Bernstein and he passes bookshelves and he keeps exploring and then we hear an oh my god, and the place is torn apart.

Things are thrown everywhere. It's a mess.

And he continues, it's a big ass apartment and then uh oh, we find missus Bernstein. She is tied up by the wrists with pantyhose on a bed frame. She's in her nineties, her legs are open, and he runs off.

It's very graphic, like it's very Season one.

They were really trying to get us, like they were like, this show is gritty, this show is edgy. You are going to see an old lady tied to a bed like dead, legs splayed open like it. Yeah, like season one. I mean, the pilot episode is Balls getting cut off by a warlord. So yeah, they started strong.

We cut to Benson and Stabler and a whole mess of cops investigating, and they're like this is too much of a mess for one guy. But like they haven't seen my apartment yet, you know what I mean. So they walk in inside and they're like not good. And then a man we don't see it. All we hear is guy ejaculated on her thigh.

We're in the cold open. Okay, so.

This is wild, but there is an ejaculate on this old woman's thigh, Like we don't even hear a hello. He's not like, hey, guys rough crime today, who get red. There's not even a good morning. Did you get coffee? It's straight ejaculate like SVU does not fuck around, and so what's you know, Like, we don't get a time of death. Nothing straight to seamen. So Benson burrows her brow, burrows, furrows.

And Stable's like, gross, how.

Could you think of like doing that to someone that looks like your grandma?

And this is gonna be a theme.

Stabler is just mostly grossed out by her age, like yeah, not the crime.

He just keeps me like, but she's old.

So we have credits done, done, and we're back and it's JK Simmons, JAK Simmons. He's the season one bed Huang and Stablers walking away from each other, and they're not talking and walking what I'm used to. They're like opposite directed, like they're walking in opposite direction. So it's a little shocking. It's not a walk and talk. Cragan is immediately accusatory to Stable. He's like, why the fuck did you bring in the shrink? And he hates Skoda.

They I mean, we never get to the bottom of this. Why does he hate Scotas so much? It's so weird, It's not I think it's like, you know, I think it's part of the whole vibe in the beginning of SV where they hate the shrinks. Oh that's right, because they're like they did it. There's no excuses, right, like no mental you're right, you're right, yeah, why don't you

So Cragan's like wants to wait to bring him in, and he's like, can we just pause, and Sailor goes too late, already brought him in. So now it's circle time and Stabler's in the the middle leading the meeting, and it is that iced tea is not here, like it is confusing for me. So the woman's name is

And JK. Simmons is standing.

There kind of hovering, and they're like, who would do this? And he goes, well, I think someone's sexually inexperienced. Late teens early twenties a social misfit and someone that does intermittent like menial work, and of course hates his mother. And Craigan's like, can it I want to hear from the purp how he feels about his mother. Why don't we get to work instead, and so he traffic cops everyone to get to work. You know, let's canvas the neighborhood and let's head to the Emmy for some info.

Like what?

So Lance Reddick lets them know that she had a heart attack. She was so scared she had a heart attack. So then Munch is like, oh, so technically she died of natural causes, and it's like, shut up.

This isn't a philosophy class. This is like, this is real life.

Stop like so much Munch from day one, and Jeffries is like, shut up, Munch, this is obviously murder too.

Like this isn't just natural causes.

And we hear about Volvo bruising, but no internal tearing.

So this is like so fucking graphic.

And they said that he was like too flustered and overly stimulated and that's why he came so fast, and maybe that's why he wasn't able to cause more damage to the body. Benson and Stabler are doing a very slow walking talk and they're talking with a neighbor and I'm obsessed with her.

She's in the movie in her shoes.

She's also I don't know if you remember missus Cohen and Sex and the City, like when Aiden is trying to she buys the apartment next door and they want to start construction and then Lady Cohen, like Carrie, helps her down the stairs and she goes, I'm not leaving for thirty days.

Read the contract. Yeah, I remember that, lady. Yeah.

And so Stabler is carrying her brown paper bag groceries and I'm obsessed. And so the scoop is that you know, she had jewels and she would wear them to temple, and so he's writing down what kind of jewels and old Lady Cohen has a surprise and she goes no, no, no, she sold all her real good jewels before the robbery. She needed money. She only had costume jewels left, like all her jewelry was costume jewelry. It wasn't real. So they go directly to a pawn shop and there's a

Why would I want this trash? And they're like, yeah, no, we get it, you wouldn't take it.

But someone came in to try and he goes, I don't deal in stolen goods, and it's like, we get it, you're apawn man with integrity, but did anybody try to do it? It seems like an Abbot and Castello routine. It's just like, we get you wouldn't do it, but did they someone try it? And so finally he goes, two kids did it. But he doesn't have his their info because he didn't do the sale because it's illegal, so like why would he have their info?

But he does describe them.

They're Colombian or Dominicans something like that late teens. One was tall with a fade and the other one was short with a hand tattoo of Barb's wire across the fingers and a dagger with blood drops. And he's gonna work with a composite artist. But he's not happy about helping the police at all. So they go to check with the guy from earlier in the beige outfit that found Missus Bernstein, and he's ready.

To help out. He's really happy, he's hyped to help.

He's like, and you know what, I would even lie for you whoever you want me to id you tell me and I'll do it. And they're like, no, no, no, we're not regular cops. We're cool cops. You don't have to lie for us. And he's just like so upset at the crime and what happened to the poor lady. And they're like, well, what about your partner, Jimmy, And he goes, well, he was down in the truck. Maybe he's got some scoop. So there are tanks everywhere. I'm like,

It's like a denim jacket with.

White like sheeps for lining and classic Stabler classic. And she says one of the dudes looks like Carlos, the other one's Alfonso. And she directs them to the apartment right next to the bodega, and she says they sit on the stoop all fucking day, hassling people. And then

It's really incredible.

So Rick Gonzalez I recognize immediately from old school, and he's on organized crime as Detective Bobby Rays and he's a cutie. And then we have Eugene Byrd he's the other one and he was like on Ghost writer in the nineties.

He's incredible. He's just like, you.

Know his face yeah, And they obviously split the boys up immediately, and Benson and Stabler are with Ricky and he's like, ask Carlos, I mean with Alfonso. I don't know where I came up with the name Ricky, oh, because his name is okay, but now I know. And

He's like, fine, I'll give you my semen too, and so.

They all get DNA tests and suspender Kraagan meets Benson and Stabler and they're like, they're both gave up their semen, so I don't think it's gonna match, and Stabler's like, well, there's probably a third guy. Hello the episode title, and so a blonde girl and a bob with a straight across bangs wants walks in in a trench coat and by girl, I mean a grown woman who is a lawyer, and she's.

Like, what the fuck?

So we have these two and who the fuck is this third John Doe and Saber's like, well, we got the DNA back and neither of them is a match, but they did Robin ransacks, so we have them on that and she's she's pissed. So she's like, so you're going on some fishing expedition and Craigan's like, yeah, we're sex crimes, not robbery, so of course we're fishing for the rapists. And she's like, okay, but I just wanted a heads up, and they're like, we're trying our best.

Why did I say games so many times?

Haha?

So Carlos is the leader obviously, and Alfonzo does whatever he says. So they're like, if you don't help us, we'll find like a good deal and then you're gonna do the max and you're gonna have a cavity search have fun. And so now we jump straight to Stephen Foster High School and the principal of the school is legend Michelle Hurst. She's in five episodes of SVU, all different characters, Claudette and Orange is the New Black, and she's in an episod sort of Sex in the City.

I don't give a shit.

So but she says they actually did not skip school on the fourteenth.

They were suspended already.

So now they're looking like who are the friends and they're like, well, there is one friend, but you'll actually need a warrant. And they're like why is he someone's son or something? And she's like, well, so she explains that him and Carlos have history but not anymore, that he cleaned up his act and it's not who you're looking for. And they're like, well we'll decide that. Can we just get a name? And I guess she doesn't

Like socio or feelings boy?

And so they end up pushing our boy Alfonso, and he's they visit him in jail and he's like beat up and it's really sad.

I mean, he clearly commits crimes, but like I don't like him with a black guy.

And Carlos is like, I'll be fine, and they are like, stop trusting the sociopath.

He will turn on you.

And they explain like, you can avoid jail time by helping us find the rapist. There's only a deal for one of you, and he's like, well, can Carlos get the deal too?

Very frustrating. I'm sure this is.

How parents feel all the time, Like with kids, yeah, followers, it's like, what the fuck are you doing? And so the lawyer whispers in his ear and he's like, I just want to think about it, and Saylor brings the table and goes, what.

The fuck do you want to think about?

Like this is the biggest decision of your life, Like you know, I don't understand what you're doing. Your whole life is either fifteen years max jail time or you get all free.

What the fuck do you have to think about?

But they're gonna give him twelve hours to think about it, and then it goes to Carlos and you know he's gonna take it. And then we cut to the next day. Benson and Stable arrive at the office and they report that Alfonso wants the deal but doesn't want to screw over Carlos. Stabler calls him an idiot. Munch says Carlos would sell out his mother for half a pack of marborough mar Marlborough's, Marlborough's.

How do you say it? Marlboroughs? Why is that so hard? I don't know.

It is a little bit of a It is a Marlboroughs. It's like a little bit of a Burrows. Sounds like Marble's in your mouth.

Ultra lights. Please, let's go to the nightclub.

So the DA called and there's a taker for the deal, but it's Carlos, and they're like fuck. So they go to meet him and they go this deal was for Alfonso, and he goes yeah, And Alfonso didn't know what to do, so he came to his good friend me and I advised against him. So the detectives are bombed. They don't want to like give a deal to the psychopath. So the bangs Ada says the deal is contingent on an

So he starts talking.

He's like, yeap me and Alfonso climbed through the window, but he thought all would cry and bail, but they did end up doing it and ransacking the place. But then they were super pissed they couldn't find anything, so they trashed the apartment and then there was a noise that scared them and it was a cuckoo clock, and so they Alfonso ran out and then Carlos chased him down the stairs to catch him, and Stabler's like, so

And he says that he dragged Alfonso.

Sorry, I asked back up there, and when they went back up, there was a white guy there in a beige uniform, and so sailors like, hold up, so none of you raped her, And Carlos continues that the guy was carrying a clipboard logo on the pocket and he walked in the door that they left open, so Sailor's like, hold on, you're telling me the delivery man raped her, and he says, yeah, how sick is that?

Why? And then it's like, but why wouldn't you just tell on the Stranger Days?

I know, I know that's what I don't get. That's like a hole to me. Yeah, well, I know everyone's like trained to like not talk to the cops and fuck the police, but like, you have why do you have loyalty to this white guy?

Yeah? Yeah, he gives a shit.

So they're at the precinct chatting and they're like, damn, so the good citizen helper did it. So this happened at nine thirty according to like the cuckoo clock noise, but stand in call nine one one for another twenty three minutes. So this is plausible, But I also don't want Alfonso to spend fifteen years in jail for the ransacking. Yeah, so Craigan is like, we're talking about the dude who called for help and tried to save her and stayed for ems. That's wild and JK. Simmons is like, yeah,

Of the blue.

Stan actually called him a few months ago and he went on and on about this cush amazing job as a pharmaceutical delivery dude, and how he's like boffin half the women on his route and boffin.

Boffin is a new.

Term for I've never heard this term, but boffing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know this term. Oh yeah, I know that term. That's a that's like a fucking dorky term. I was for fucking yeah same boff yeah, boffed like that.

I think it's old and no one.

Says that, yeah, And so they pressured him to like give more scoop on his sex and rape behavior, and Jimmy says he talks about sex and women all the time and making special deliveries and they ask about Bernstein and he's like what about her? And they're like, well, did he make any special deliveries to her? And he's like, nah, I don't really know, and then he runs to get the paper and they think he's lying. So they agree,

And they're like, and you raped missus Bernstein and he denies it.

He's shocked by the accusation. He said, I never touched her, and then Maloney quickly goes, but you gave her CPR.

How'd you do that? And so they kind of got him.

So finally he begins to spill and he's like, Okay, I didn't give CPR.

I didn't even find her.

They're like, you're lying again, and they're like, we have witnesses.

We know you're lying. And he's like, you have this all wrong. They didn't see me.

They saw Jimmy, the guy with the beanie, and they're like you want us to believe you're covering for Jimmy.

And he's like, no, I'm covering for me.

So he finally has to confess that, like he's supposed to make the deliveries because Jimmy is not certified to hook up the tanks, but when the building has no elevators, like, he makes Jimmy walk it up. And so Jimmy was taking forever, so he decided to like go up there, and the new tank was by the door, so he's like,

So they do have to cut Carlos loose.

So it's a big mistake because them they did cause the first heart attack, and she wouldn't have died from the second heart attack if it wasn't for the first one. So they could have like kind of convicted all of them or charged all of them. But Carlo's big mistake. He is loose, and so now they have to go to try to get Jimmy and they're like, you understand your rights. He's like, fuck yeah, let's do this. So

And Scota is so calm. I love him. He's so chill.

He's not all worked up by Cragan. He is not into like he's so I love this character and he's like, all I did was put a sticky note on a file on your desk, which was the deed file.

And what was on the sticky note?

So they're like, well, what was on the sticky note and basically on the sticky rope note just said our word question mark comedy gold. Comedy gold for those which remember this is two thousands. So they're using the R word very liberally throughout this entire episode, like it's not a big deal, and obviously it's not said anymore no, but it is just like that the professional so like psychologists just wrote our word question.

It's just kind of incredible.

And he also said that it shouldn't have even left the office, and the Bang's lady says, well it did. And finally, the Bang's lady has been in this episode so many times, like we've seen her a few times, so I have to acknowledge her. Her character name is eighty A Fahee, she's only in this episode.

I look her up. Her actress name is Catherine Borrowitz and she is married.

To John Teturo.

Oh no way, they've been married since nineteen eighty five, and she became a social worker in twin sixteen, and so she left the biz.

Yes, and so she said, well it did.

The sticky note made it into the discovery packet, and now we have a hearing on Monday, and anything they find to refute his mental retardation would be great, and

Einstein got bad grades.

And Benson's like, sure, we'll go argue that he's Einstein.

Ha like.

So they go for his.

Work records and he did have difficulty sustaining employment.

He was even fired for McDonald's.

But you know, he lived in his own, unassisted apartment in New York City, which is not easy.

So they go to the apartment.

The landlord lets him in, there's tons of books, and Sailor's like, well, he can't be our word. He has got books, and so the landlord is like, you know, he is a big reader. He reads the paper on the stoop every morning, and he's kept every receipt he's ever had. He always pays in cash. There's no check books, there's no diaries. He does have tons of porn and even in the kitchen the stove is filled with books and newspapers. It's just like everywhere. And then we find

But he's so friendly.

He talks to who ever sits beside him, and they're like, so, does he ever come off as slow or anything. She goes, well, he's not in a hurry. He studies everything item on the menu. And it drives her nuts because even though he reads my item on the menu, he always just gets the special. Every time, he always orders the special. She walks off. Benson's like, it's weird that nobody like that saw him every day, picked up on his developmental

She was just really tired.

And they asked why he missed so much school, and she's like, I don't know. He was usually an angel, but when he had a bad day, I just kept him at home and they're like, and you never thought to test him?

And she's like, yeah, I don't know. I never I never thought about tests.

And they're like, well, like to see if he had learning disorders, and she's like, he's not our word, and she's his mother, she would notice something like that. And they're like, well, what's the when's the last time you saw him? And she thinks and she goes, huh, I guess when he left the home. And Benson's like at eighteen, and she goes, listen, I'm not the best mom, but raising seven kids by myself, it's just a lot. He never had girlfriends or luck in that area. She didn't

Scored a sixty eight.

Jimmy scored a sixty eight on the IQA val and Sailor's like, fuck, but like what if he like he didn't have any reason to try his best?

What if that's the fuck up?

And so Benson then adds like it's fucking on that nothing, not one thing from his home was something in his own handwriting. Stabler then finds a porn box and on the porn box it says insatiable bondage sluts. And then Stabler goes, that's nice. So and the staging of insatiable

We're seeing it. We're seeing it right now.

Craigan doesn't care, and he just wants to push forward in the case he knows he did something wrong, and Scota shakes his head and they walk off in opposite directions and we cut straight to court stablers on the stand, He's like, listen, he lived alone and had a job and there were no there's no prior info about him being disabled anywhere, and the judge is so suspicious and like staring at him or wants the fuck stablers so fucking hard. I can't tell the exact vibe the judge

But it's just it's interesting.

So the defense is like, you know, you found all these books and you use that as evidence for your case, but do you know the links the community will go to to disguise their inadequacies. They'll sit in public and pretend to read them, and they point at the two who like The camera goes to the two feuding balds in the courtroom and they're sitting a row apart. The defense layer continues, a lot of people that are developmentally challenged will wear a watch even if they can't till time.

Yes, but he also read it to him.

Stabler says, So, now Jimmy's on the stand and he remembers hearing Stabler explain his rights and he's now asked to say them out loud, and he begins and he does say them, like you have the right to remain silent, and he finishes the whole thing. But then the lawyer goes explain it, and he smiles and goes, those are your rights, and they're like, well, explain the rights, and he can't, and they're like, well, explain the court of law. No idea, due process, no idea roll of a judge

So nobody asked you are you mentally retarded?

And he says no, And the defense is obvious, like, you know, people deny this all the time. We went over all of this. This is very common, and the judge goes, okay, noted. Jimmy stands up and points to his lawyer and end quote says, I am not retarded and he could prove it by telling everyone what he

Are you proud of yourself now?

And so now Craigan is walking down the work hallway with his head laying low and shame, and Scoda runs after him and says that they should work together to make a recommendation for the core when he has time, and Craigan's still being a dick.

I'm like shocked. I thought he was, like shame.

He's like I'm fresh out of time, doc, and he's like, just write the report and put my name on it. And Scoda's like, what the fuck? What is eating you bitch? Like what is going on? And Craigan flips out and he's mad because it's only two IQ points away from not being considered developmentally challenged, and Scoda's like, yeah, but he was devastated by what he did. You saw that, and Craigan goes, no, what I saw was remorse, which

Do you remember her?

So we open back up on Jimmy but and he's being admitted to a center and Scoda is in a Newsy's type hat and he's walking Jimmy in and Jimmy is like, you know, getting escorted out of a van, handcuffed, and they walk him in and he is so upset

It's like they're trying to scare you.

It's like going into an institution where they're like trying to freak you out by you know, people that are suffering from like probably schizophrenia and really intense shit. And Scota's petting him and he's shaking his head and repeating no, no, no, and he has tears in his eyes.

And then I'm like, maybe jail would have been better. I don't I don't know about that. I don't know if there's any.

Good because then he could have been like people would be violent towards him. Yeah, and this is the saddest It's dick Wolf Baby ever, Like.

It's so sad.

It's really tough, something bad, But this episode is dark, no justice, it's really fucked up. And Carlos goes free. They tied her up. Yeah, so so bad. This episode's tough.

This is a very gray.

This is a very like SVU making us think and pushing us to our limits.

Yeah.

Yeah, but we've got some interesting cases. So just listen to a couple of words from our sponsors and we'll be right back. Okay, So the first case that I think this episode draws from is the murder of Mabel Monahan. And Mabel was a sixty four year old widow living right here in LA but actually Burbank to be specific, which if you don't know La, Burbank is like its own city, but it's directly attached to the rest of LA. It's where a lot of like movie studios are and stuff.

Now, weirdly, Mabel.

And her former son in law, Tutor, stayed friends. Okay, they just maintained a friendship after they after you know, he divorced her daughter. And the problem was that Tutor, her former son in law, was a gambler and a con man. So all these rumors spread that Tudor had hidden one hundred thousand dollars in the home of his best friend former mother in law for a rainy day fund, like that's where he was stashing one hundred k in

So that's the whole crew.

The whole posse of five of them. On March eight, nineteen fifty three, the gang all heads to Mabel's house. Barbara knocks on the door, talks her way in. I'm having car trouble, blah blah blah. Mabel is suspicious but eventually lets her in and the other guys follow into the house. They search the house, they cannot find a safe anywhere. The safe cracker, the guy named Shorter, claims that when he got there, Mabel Monahan was already on the floor bleeding with.

A gag in her mouth.

Everyone yeah, well, the safe cracker was actually called in later, so they called him in later. So he's like, when I got there, she was on the floor, and so sorry, I should have been clear about that. The other guys came in, but it's very unclear what happened. This whole thing, this whole fucking heist is a train wreck from the jump, like no one was in charge. Everyone has a different story. They tore this place apart and there was just nothing there.

So vice versa.

When they realized they fucked this whole thing up, they jump into separate cars and they take off. Shorter, the safecracker, and Santo are in one car, and Shorter told Santo he wanted to help get help for Mabel, and Santra goes, quote, I don't give a damn what you do. That woman stopped breathing before we left. So Mabel's body was not found for two days because of this wrong address fiasco, and it was found by her gardener who noticed that the door was opened. The place was ransacked a lot

They definitely murdered him.

This is the fifties. They probably dumped him in the Los Angeles National Forest or something like that. Who knows, but we never find this guy again. On June third, nineteen fifty three, the rest of the group, Perkins, Santo, True, and Graham were all indicted on charges of conspiracy, commit burglary, robbery, and murder. So John True decided to save his own ass.

Like I don't know if electric is more chill, but I know, like hearing gas chamber is kind of like geez.

And there's like a famous thing where right before she went in, somebody said to her, like the guy who was doing it was like, take deep breasts so it'll go faster, like just inhale the gas and get it done.

And she goes, how would you know, like you're still alive, I guess.

Like so anyway, that was like her famous last like some of her famous last words. So the other case this is based on is Johnny Paul Penry, and this is a really sad case. Penry had brain damage from birth related to being breach, which is when the baby's head, the baby tries to come out feet first. And his mother also suffered from schizophrenia and treated him horribly and

End quote.

So this guy, Johnny Paul Penry, only went through first grade of education when he was nine. His IQ was fifty six, according to a state psychologist report, and according to the report, it said, quote Johnny seems so seriously impaired that he is incapable of intellectually functioning at anything like an age appropriate level. So at twelve, he was institutionalized at the Mexia State School for the Mentally Retarded.

So in two thousand.

And six, the US Supreme Court refused to reinstate the sentence. His lawyer said that his IQ was between fifty and sixty, with and I as they said in the episode, and IQ of seventy is used as the threshold for intellectual impairment. Prosecutors remained convinced that Perry was not intellectually impaired, pointing to two television interview clips he did that had been

Things could be related in any way.

In two thousand and eight, Penry agrees to a plea bargain in which he was given three consecutive sentences of life without parole for Carpenter's murder and sexual assault, and as part of the plea deal, he had to certify that he was not intellectually disabled.

They're like, we will not kill.

You, you'll spend the rest of your life in jail, but you've got to tell us that you're not intellectually disabled. Even though by IQ is there seems to be a lot of evidence that he is. He matched address to a door, you know, Like when he was on death row, he was an outcast. He was shunned by other inmates because of his intellectual disability. His like we said his IQ was sixty was fifty six. He spent his days coloring with crayons and looking at comic books that he

I mean, I guess I get the.

Point of view of like these people care for the victims, but like this urgent rush and obsession with the death penalty and I don't kill him, kill him then say you're not this and that, Like I don't.

I just I don't understand that, Like.

Especially when there's like a there's like court documents like noting a lifelong abuse, like lifelong abuse, like how you know it's just so it's just sad all around, this whole this whole case. But yeah, but we've got a really cool guest that we got to lend your pal.

We got off from all of the darkness of this episode, so please stay right where you are.

I just want to give a quick disclaimer before we introduce our guests that this interview was pre taped. It was taped before we knew about the SAG strike, which we as both members of SAG Lisa and I are we fully and wholeheartedly support. So just in case anyone's wondering, no one is going against strike rules with this conversation, and just wanted.

To give you guys that heads up.

All right, our guest today is a very talented actor whose face you will recognize. He's been in so many things, movies like Old School and Coach Carter. He was a series regular on WB's Arrow and if you're like me and you watch Law and Order Organized Crime, you will recognize him as Detective Bobby Reyes, who is a regular and part of Stabler's team over on that show.

But you know him today as the.

Poor teenage dirt bag with not a lot of choices Alfonso Cardenas. Guys enjoy our convo with a very talented Rick Gonzalez.

I love this like.

Trajectory you have where like SVU was probably like one of your first jobs season one, and now you're back twenty three years later on the on the reconfiguration. What am I trying to say that? Yeah, yeah, you're back in the Dick Wolf universe.

Back in the universe.

Yeah, I mean it's organized crime, and so we're in a different world and it is very strange to go from you know, I did that episode in nineteen ninety nine and and then I never I've never thought that coming back to that world would be possible, you know, I thought, you know, it's like a rite of passage, right. I'm sure other actors have come on here and said that. So it's like this idea of like, well, I did it, you know, I did my my bid so to speak.

It's just very strange, well, not only as an actor, but like as probably a New Yorker to pretty fun getting arrested on the streets of New York by Ice Tea.

Oh I.

Well I when I did this season, Ice wasn't there yet.

Oh my god, you're right at season one?

Yeah, no, it was nice. It was just Mariska and men Too and Maloney.

Yeah, and most of my scenes were really just with Marishka and Chris.

He gets really into your face too.

Yeah, didn't get into everyone's face.

Yeah, it truly looks like he's.

About to kiss most people that he's like, he does.

Get so so close.

Oh for sure when you joined OC, did he like remember you from ninety nine or where did you have to jog his memory or like what I.

Had to jog his memory?

Yeah?

Yeah, for sure. I walked in.

I was like, hey, we did the thing a long time ago, and he was just.

Like okay, yeah, all right, great, great?

You know I'm sure, I mean, how many episodes is this man has done?

Right?

I know it's there's a lot of guest stars. Yeah, I barely I barely remember what I've done last week, so I'm sure like he's not gonna remember.

But well, also your co star, the other bad guy, and that's Eugene Bird was an arrow.

Where did you guys overlap?

No, we did it, but Eugene is a good friend of mine, and so that was the first time I met Eugene doing Law and Order. And he was on Arrow the season before I got there, so he was there season four.

I got their season five.

He plays Diggle's brother, which is David Ramsey's character, and yeah, we just sort of always cross paths overlap. But I've always been rooting for that guy because he's such a good actor. So it's always cool when that stuff happens. But I remember when we did the SVU episode, he was like, man, I want you know, I want my character to, you know, like kind of be Latino like

Eugene. He's like, I don't know me.

It's like, you know, they pulling me away, you know. I want to tell you like don't say anything. And I'm like, oh, you want to say no? They said naha. He was like, oh yeah, yeah, give me that, give me that.

I want to say that, you know.

So we were like I just love that, you know, like in the beginning, like that was one of my I think that was like my third job ever, and it was just like immediately, like you know, you connect with someone you know and you're doing fun things like that and you're you're able to give another fellow actor, like you know, ideas and choices and and from that moment on we just stayed friends, you know, living in California and stuff like that. So, uh yeah, that's what

Oh that's awesome. Now both of you are successful. It worked out. Yeah, they are working. Your IMDBs are robust.

We do okay.

So we've like interviewed, you know, over a hundred actors that have been on the show, and like, oh yeah, we get a lot of like Marishka's really warm, Marishka's really amazing, Like we love Marishka.

And then with Maloney, everyone's like.

Love him, very professional, but they always tell us that he's like a little bit more serious, a little bit more like you know, reserve, like kind of in the like in his like in his process or whatever. Then I look at the instagrams of you guys on the OC set. You whileways all look like you're having a blast. So what's the tea? Like, has he loosened up? Is he how do you find him on the on oc Because you guys are all like playing pranks and jokey jokes.

It sounds like.

So I guess my perspective is like, you know, we show up and yeah, there is this side of like we're trying to get the scene done and we're trying to get the work done, we're trying to figure it out.

A great photo. This is a nice little.

Tableau of our number one. But yeah, I mean I think to us, it's just like you gotta have fun. You got to kind of loosen up, you know, and just bring levity to the to the day.

And I think that's what he is.

You know, I think he's sort of like taking a step back and having a good laugh and you know, being able to because I think we do have those moments even on the show, you know, we try to find those fun moments between us, especially this last this past season, we've tried to find it a few times, which was cool, and I think that allowed us to sort of be comfortable.

Do you work out together? Are you know, any exercises with Maloney?

Not together or no, but we do trade war stories and you know, notes.

Like hey, what'd you well?

My thing for me is like every morning I see them and I say, what'd you work on?

You know, like what'd you do in the gym? You know?

You know, and I'll just poking produm, you know, and like let me feel the bict.

In because I stalked you on Instagram and your family. You have a muscular family. You guys are out there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my wife is the most muscular of all.

Wait, I want to switch it up and then we'll go back to sv you how is it being in Lady Gaga's music video.

We're gonna get right to the.

Point here, right right, right, We get into the meeting potatoes.

Yes, yes, we have a notes document where we like take notes about you and ask rod our questions down and this is in caps with a many many exclamation points.

We are very excited about the Judas video.

That was It was so random. They came out of nowhere. I was like, like, I'm sitting on a couch with my wife and manager calls like, so you're gonna then Lady Gaga.

Wants you to be in a next video, and I'm like, she.

Knows who I am, you know, Like it's like yeah, and then fast forward to like we meet her and we see the whole creative direction and there's like this whole Jesus aspect, you know, sort of recreating like moments of Christ's life but in the version of like Biker Gang.

You know.

And I was like, huh okay, and then Norman Ritis is gonna play Judas and I'm gonna be Jesus. It was like it was actually a lot of fun. I knew that they asked me to, So I did a movie called Biker Boys a long time ago, and I did learn how to ride a motorcycle, but I didn't learn after that.

I didn't continue it. I didn't. So the idea was, hey, can.

You ride you know, Lady Gaga, you know, on the bike with you? And I'm like no, it's like, well you did Biker Boys and we know you can ride.

I'm like what that was like a long time ago.

I haven't been riding. Norman rides. He's a very good rider. He does that for sure. And so the idea was, could we figure out the whole rigging of the bike so you can have her behind you? And I don't think they were trying to do that, but eventually they had to. And that made me feel so good because I was like, I don't want to be responsible for killing Lady God.

So I would not have been good.

Well then, yeah, it would just be like I wouldn't have been able to do you know, organized crime.

I would have been in jail. Yeah, things would have shame.

I would have really really pivoted your career, I think, pretty in a not great way, very very quickly.

Did you steal anything from that side?

I should have. I don't know why I didn't. And this is my problem. Guys. I do all these cool shit and I don't steal.

Yeah, you're to steal.

I follow rules and you're not supposed to.

In my position, you're supposed to just steal it, take it with you, because that's you, that's forever.

Well.

I just saw an interview with Reese Witherspoon and in her contract for Legally Blonde two, she said she keeps all the wardrobe you have to s well. Also, it's like in your position too, It's kind of one of those things where it's better to ask forgiveness than ask permission. Just take something and then be like I didn't realize, you know I did.

I didn't take my jersey from Coach Carter. I don't know why I didn't do that.

What else? I didn't take anything from old school.

Now, granted, the cool thing was all the pledges, sort of like we all gave each other gifts. So my so in my storage, I have gifts from Patrick Adams and like I just got a bunch of stuff from different people.

Rob Kudrey gave me his Brooklyn jacket.

I still have it, Like I just like we all just gave each other gifts and stuff. So like in my mind, I'm like I didn't think to like steal the the elephant costume or like, oh know, something from the.

Show, you know, for the film, So but an arrow I did.

I was like, I'm stealing my jersey, I'm stealing the mask. But to that point, everyone was like, here, here's the guns, here's the the leather holster.

Do you want this?

And so at that moment I was able to just people were just giving me stuff. But I guess, like in the two thousands and like twenty ten's, I wasn't really taking stuff and I'm like, oh, what do.

You want to?

So now I'm like, now, how do I get a hold of the stuff that I was in before?

And like, I don't know if it's gonna be that easy to get so right.

I wonder if they have those jerseys and there are like warehouses and stuff.

I wonder if you costume it's.

Got to be on the Paramount lot for sure, Yeah, somewhere buried in the Paramount lot somewhere over there.

And then they just give it to me, Like.

Ah, it's my goal.

I'm gonna I'm going to IMDb who did the wardrobe and figure this out for you.

Mind you there's so many people who get replicas made of that jersey and I'm constantly signing it. Yeah, and I'm like, ah, I'm like, man, I just that's such a bummer.

I need my own another classic. How was Old School?

Was that like a huge moment for you?

You were young?

Cool, big hit? No great?

I don't know if it well because it was I did Bichel Boys and then I did Old School right after that, and I mean things were starting to pick up, was working and stuff, and but we didn't.

Know that movie was going to be a hit, you know.

And I think I think time has sort of created like the cult energy to Old School. You know, it needed time to like for people to digest it and to really enjoy it. I think in the beginning, I got a lot of free beers at bars, you know, when that movie came out, it was a lot of free drinks. But as time moves on, you know, people sort of herald it, you know, And I think that was sort of that was definitely Will Ferrell's first big hit.

Well, it created like the time period because then it was four year old version and crash, like it was just like all these fun ass comedies that came yeah and started it. Yeah, Like there were these big comedies too where everyone's quoting them, like everyone's like we're going streaking and everyone's like saying all this stuff like you're.

My boy Blue.

Like that movie just was like a quote factory. Like I mean I remember seeing it in the theater. I think like I was, I was on board with Old School from the stars from the It didn't have to marinate with me. But yes, I hear what you're saying, like, yeah, these movies that like they do well, but then they take on like cult status and like oh, I feel like it gets memed and stuff too.

Still you know, oh for sure, what do.

You get recognized the most for when people come up to you? Are they like they're not giving when the beat now that the beer rush is probably over a little bit, like what is it arrow or like what are people?

I think Coach Carter is probably the biggest.

Yeah, I think Coach Carter and probably the more significant is probably the film when people sort of feel more connected to or emotionally connected to.

But I mean a lot of people.

Do record, you know, say you know loved Old School and and just love that film.

So I get a lot of that as well.

But people are never like I loved you in that one episode of Law and Order SVU from nineteen ninety nine when you played Alfonso.

Well, that has happened.

That has happened because there are some diehards and listen, I didn't know this existed, that there are people that go to bed, but before they go to bed, they watch SVU. You gotta like do like a few episodes and I'm like, man, that's a hardcore breed person.

That ye're talking to a lot of our listeners.

I mean, wow. And I had a friend of mine in New York and that's what he does.

It's like, yep, gotta catch a couple episodes on USA and then I hit the hay and I'm like, you're a special breed.

I think it's like yeah, because of like it's like formulaic, like you sort of like know, you know, it's like there's gonna be the crime, and then there's gonna be the red herring, and then they're gonna find the guy and then they go to court. Like you know, it's a little bit comforting in that way, like it's been on for so long.

Psychologists have some theories okay, And it's like when you've grown up with trauma or chaos or something, it's like comforting because it's normal to you. So it's kind of twisted a little too, but like it's not as shocking when you've lived some nightmares or something.

I guess, well, here's my thing.

It's like, like, for example, my episode sweet Old Lady gets raped and killed. Yeah, ain't that like eleven thirty at night to see a sweet old lady get raped and killed before bed?

But this is also like a very you're at this episode that you're in this very like gritty in the sense that like like now they'll show like if they find an old lady dead, you'll just kind of see like a little bit of gray hair and like the hands. The last one, they just show like a full dead lady lying there like tied to the bed. I was like, damn, this show was in its first season just making swings

I'm not shitting on you know people. I love y'all. I love I just think it's funny, that's all. Yeah.

Yeah, but you know what was wor So I was watching SVU last night, but then I put on the Ultimatum on Netflix, which is like lesbians putting ultimatums on each other and hearing lesbians fight. I had to change it back to SVU, like it was more grading of them talking about their relationship. And I was like, put back the the Heinous Crimes.

Yeah, while so you have now so you okay, So now you guys just did a like a little crossover for the finale of SVU right where.

You were back.

So how does that like are you guys like, so, now do you feel like there's a big difference I guess between like does it feel different when you're on the OC set versus the SBU set or do they kind of just like, yeah, no.

It feels different. Yeah, No, it definitely feels different.

It's like you're walking into a different You're walking into a different house, you know, and it's like this someone else's house and the way they you know, have the carpet or like it's just you're just like, wait, it's different, and their energy is different, you know, the way we sort of set up our shots is different from how they do it, and I remember Brent and I walking in them, and obviously we didn't have much to do when we crossed over. It was very It was a

And I'm like, at.

First, I'm walking and I want to stand next to Mariska and Chris because I naturally you want to just ask for information because I'm walking in the scene as the character, And I'm like, all right, what's going on with those guys? Have they talked?

You know?

And I see that Brent keeps going and I'm like, well, why are you walking over there with? And then I see my color of tape on the floor over there, and I'm like, ah, Okay, they don't want me here. I need to keep going, so I'll just keep going. And then come to realize like, hey, you're coming in. We got you all ready to set up to go

In the phrase we get the most.

Everybody always says it's like a well oiled machine over it as for you, But it's all I mean, the shows look very different, and they like the pace is so different of both. Yeah, so I could see how it would be different. I just was wondering since it's like both Dick Wolf and like, you know, what the differences were.

I think that.

I think the idea too, is like, hey, we wanna we're all in the same universe, but how can we differentiate? So we have to do that in terms of pace, timing and also look right, Yeah, so I think we're sort of a little brighter than s for you. As for you, it gets to be a little more grittier and heavier, especially because of the content. But yeah, I mean it's it's it's kind of like how they have to sort of find their way through it, you know.

Going back to season one, you're a young act. You do have to cry. You are crying. Was that like, oh fuck, I have to cry today? Or are you like, oh, I've learned this. I went to the Fame High School. I'm say no.

I think when it comes to that kind of stuff, Like I remember reading Sean Penn talk about Mystic River and like he was saying, like there was the scene where he finds out his daughter died, and it was just and he just mentioned that, you know, those moments are he tries not to think about it. He tries, you know, because it's just you know it's coming, you know.

And I think on that day I was so hungry though. It was like my third job, so.

I was just really hungry to just kind of like and I think also too, your learning and growing at the same time, like everything that I've learned so far, how do I apply it and at the same time, how can I enjoy this at the same time.

So the idea was doing the scene and I start to.

Cry, and I think my head starts to like, you know, you naturally you cry, you want to, like your body wants to hide, you know, you want to, like, but the camera can't see you. So as I'm crying, I feel a kick on my shin and it's Chris.

You know.

And as soon as he did it, I looked up, you know, and I guess the scene's finished. And then we call cut and Chris is like, camera can't see you if your your head's down. I'm like, oh, right, thank you, you know, ouch by the way, you know, but thank you.

So yeah.

I mean, I think it's those those moments of like, you know, he's trying not to you, try not to like you know, it's like.

A it'll be fine, We'll be all right.

I like that he kicked you. He did that's he did a fun tip.

This was amazing Outside of OC, Is there anything else that you want people to know where to find you?

Something that's upcomings? Like locked into? Are you locked into OC right now?

I am? Yeah.

I think we're picked up for mid season, so twenty twenty fours, so depending on when the strike's done obviously, and then we'll get at it. So I would imagine sometime this year we start getting into that.

Rickoncillas, Yeah, Wow, he gets a song, he gets a song that he was so cool.

What a cool dude. Season one to organize crime.

Baby, it all comes back around once you're in the Dick Wolf universe. That's why we just need to find a body and I know we'll be series regulars by twenty seventy five.

Oh my god, I love.

That article you posted like a month or so ago about people like the article is positive about our podcast, but then it was like and they keep begging to be on the show, but it hasn't happened for so far.

No luck.

Yeah, it was like putting us on a top podcast list, but then also being like the hosts often talk about wanting to be on the show. No luck yet, Okay, we're not trying that hard, like we're just begging on our pod. This is a horrifying episode. The ending haunts me forever.

It's a really, really terrifying episode.

And I feel as though, also, like we talked about it, just was there was just a grat like now you can totally tell how they the camera skirts around the face of the victim, like you don't see like you won't see a dead old lady hung up my hand like tied up with pantyhose. On the show these days, you know, they've kind of softened.

Some of that.

I would disagree since last season they burned Feen in the opening credits.

Yes, that's true. That's true. You're right.

I think it like stopped in the middle, and then they came back this season with some gruesome shit and then the mummification like last yeah, sees it Warren Light's last season.

He really let us have it.

Yeah, Warren Light was trying to go out with a bang and traumatize all of us so we would remember his name forever. And by the way, Warren Light's in a fucking public feud with Ryan Murphy. Ryan Murphy might sue Warren Light. Did you read about this?

Yeah, but explain it to the to everyone, it's about field and stuff.

Yeah, it's like about the Writer's Guild.

Like I think he Warren Light just tweeted some shit about how Ryan Murphy was like keeping some of his shows in production and not being in solidarity with the writer's strike, and Ryan Murphy was like, that's not true and threatened to sue him.

And then I don't know how details, but you can google it.

Yeah, but Warren Light is the captain of the Writers Guild East. That's like what yeah, and he all but I think he stepped down as that role since this lawsuit came forward. No, I think they said it's forced him to give up his captain ship. It's just fucked up because all we hear about Warren Light is how much he cares about actors and the ar and plays, and his plays are incredible, Like he really cares about

I would have been doing it.

I didn't get it, but I can't wait to see who got the part I auditioned for.

I am really curious.

But if I did get it, I would be crossing the picket line.

I'll tell you that much. You heard it here first.

If I got cast and Ryan Murphy's American Horror Story, I'm scabbing.

Well, you know, we're finding out out in like two days whether we're striking as actors.

We'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

Oh, but at least it's happening after your premiere, so you're at your premiere having fun. I don't know if there's a big post mortem from this episode, Like what did we learn that the government is willing to execute people with mental mental problems?

I don't know.

Or also that schools, I mean, the mom was a bad mom and she admitted it, but like, why did no one notice this boy couldn't read? Yeah, Like what is going on at the schools that like a child just fell so hard through the cracks in this like capacity, Also, Craig it the Bald versus the Bald really got me this episode, like.

It really did.

How Craigan just could not be like, like this is sad. Yeah, yeah, Craigan was like they were really they show you. Craigan softens up a lot in later seasons, because this is early Craigan obviously season one, and he's like, I don't care if this guy has issues, get him in jail.

An amazing actor and to the point where Joel Cambuster goes, Wow, honestly, I can't even believe you got him, and I was like, are you fucking kidding? Speaking of American horror story, But he's all, isn't it no Dennis o hair?

Oh h?

I was like Joel, Yeah, Dennis o' haair, Oh my gosh, But yeah he was. He was a really big person. But we get so many celebrities, We get like the biggest hot shots in the fucking world.

On this show.

Yeah, no, I'm I love who our guests and Rick Gonzalez was an awesome on us. Well, and I think for this week let's just move into what would Sister Peg Do? I think you guys know that's our weekly segment where we direct you guys towards an organization, an article, a blog, a podcast, something to give you more info about what we talked about in today's episode.

And I wanted to point you.

Guys to a document on the ACLU website titled Intellectual Disability and the Death Penalty. And this covers the case of Atkins versus Virginia. We're in the Supreme Court rule that quote executing people with intellectual disabilities violated the Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel and usual punishment. It also covers three factors that must be quote taken into account in order for a person to be classified as intellectually disabled.

So just more information on that whole topic, you can.

Go to ACLU dot org and as always, the link is in our show notes and we'll be posted in our stories on our Instagram page, which is Thats Messed Up Pod.

If you're not listening to our Instagram, what are you doing?

If you're not following, and we save those forever in our WWSPD story highlights so you can always see the other organizations we've directed people towards.

Thank you so much for that, and next week we'll be doing the episode Class Season seven, episode seventeen. We're obsessed with all of you. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate it.

And keepollow us on threads, follow us on threads. God, oh my god, we got a thread we got on threads.

Bye.

That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Karraklank and at glitter Cheese.

As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.

Thank you so.

Much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and to our.

Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media, Dun Dun