Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. Happy New Year. I guess it's been a while.
We recall the second Well, this is the second episode to really come out in the New Year, or maybe the third. It's the third, but this is our first time like recording. You guys know, we're time machine and everything. Plus it was the holidays and we were we had to record stuff in advance so we could live our lives for the holiday.
And now we're back.
We're back, and we talked SVU True Crime, we talked to celeb guests, and up top we catch up. You know. Yeah, this was the longest we hadn't recorded ever. I feel like we really took a holiday break.
I didn't. It was a real break.
But you know what's comical, all this stuff. I was like, and I'm gonna catch up on this. I'm gonna watch all of that. I'm gonna take notes on that, and it's like, honey, if I did anything besides watch Real Housewives of Miami, like I don't even think one task, it felt it really.
Did feel incredible.
I'd never feel like my life is too overwhelming or stressful, but doing nothing nothing felt great. And my parents are obsessed with me. So then they are like, you deserve it.
You know, they like me doing nothing, feeding you grapes. I you know, everyone that has a kid listening to this podcast knows this is the worst time of the year. It's just seventeen full days of no childcare for my children, and we all got sick at Christmas. My kids both had ear infections in both ears.
I was sick.
I just got out of it because I finally got a doctor to give me an a bio. Why are they withholding I don't know the antibiotics.
It's like, it's not that your mom just give you prescriptions.
She sometimes will, but she sometimes is like, I really think you should see your doctor. You know, she just tries to be a little bit like you know she does. I mean she called in pink eye drops for my kids immediately they didn't really get pink eye. But then our friends got all got pink eye. Oh my god, my god. Yeah, great nightmare.
Well I used to get pink eye. It's my nightmare.
Like I had it once when I was like eleven, and I just still remember the feeling of like my eye being shut and not being able to open it and like I ugh. Anyway, we didn't really get it. My kids got a little bit of like, uh, the start of it, and we did the drops and it like never really materialized.
It never got to full pink. How did they get your characters? Are they swimming?
Like?
I don't understand how this happened.
No.
I think it's like you get congested and then she goes into your ear drums and it's just like kids just get them.
I don't know.
Like I brought Rosie on a lark because I knew Oscar something was wrong, and I brought Rosie just to be like check her out too, and her ear infection was worse than his. The doctor was like looking at them, grading them out of ten, and she was like, well, that's a ten out of ten and your daughter and I was like great, cool. She was barely complaining about it. But they've taken their antibiotics.
They're all good. They're on the men.
We were all getting over Like, I mean, I've been reading about this on like Twitter and online and stuff, like everybody has these this like two week illnesses right now that like they can't shake, like coughs, congestion, whatever, And I'm at the tail end of mine. So I feel good now, but oh my god. Anyway, We've done a lot of fun stuff with our kids. It's been fun, but it's just like.
Fuck, Like would you go into the Natural History Museum Natural History Museum.
We've gone into like other kids places like the Southern California Children's Museum, the Kids Space. Uh, there's this place called Peekaboo near us where like our babysitter takes them sometimes.
I messaged you, Karra, was it the day after Christmas or something where you posted five stories about the Bob Baker marionettes And I was like.
I love it.
You have not posted about anything this much, not even our own podcast. It was just like story after a story of these marionettes.
So cute. I don't know.
I just like I took a bunch of pictures and I was like, these are my best five, and so I post sent them in my stories and Lisa was immediately like, fuck, are they paying you?
And I was like no, I just like it.
Well, because our friend Jaron was in San Diego posting about a hotel often and I went, is this a sponsorship?
Yeah?
They gave me the room for free.
And I was like, on con because he kept being like and then they have this and look at this gym.
I'm like, what am happening?
I wish I could say I was sponsored by Bob Baker's Marionette Theater, the oldest Marionette theater in the country, by the way, everybody, if you're interested in Marionette, really, yeah, they say it at.
The beginning of the show. They're like, we're the oldest working Marionette theater. I mean, I can't imagine there's a ton of Marionette theaters everywhere. But anyway, we've taken our kids to do lots of shit. And I will say I've caught up on a lot of television. I watched all of White Lotus everybody it's happened, I've watched them.
But I have an amazing question. This is he's gonna stump and fuck people up. I think what's the better theme song? White Lotus or SVU. Oh, isn't that break or brain?
That's breaking my brain?
Because you know what happened is like I was on TikTok for some reason and I saw a DJ like mixing the White Lotus theme song into like a dance tune, and I was like, fuck the slaps.
That theme song is really fun.
I mentioned White Lotus on a set a while ago, and at my walk off music they played the White Lotus theme and it was just like, my god, it just is good. But SVU is so good too, and it gives me the same I want to dance. I would never fast forward. This is so good.
Also, the White Lotus one is such an earworm, like it's been in my head for like a day at a time where I'm like, oh my god, stop like stop making the noises of the White Lotus song. Whereas I so I do feel like if I had to listen to it for twenty four years, I might not like it as much as the SVU theme song, which has never bothered me in twenty four years and the amount that I watch it.
It's just like, you know, so I don't know to.
That baby on the internet that went to the two Themes song. We did post that, and thank you all for sending us that as well. Love so many gifts, well so many so to us. We get all this SVU stuff and I am so guilty of this I sent. I can't believe I keep talking about our friend Jared,
but I sent him this. There's a place in New York where it's make your own charcuterie board, and it's like, like, I think it's a great idea, actually, but you go in and you just pick stuff like Chipotle and they make like a board for you.
And I sent it to him.
He's like, yeah, I got it, and it's like, oh yeah, duh, Like he's known for that. We're no for rest of you. It's like, but I'm just sure guilty person. I'm so guilty. I will always send the thing.
And they're like, yeah, yeah, people just think of us and they send this you thing.
But wait a minute. So speaking of I.
Posted this on our account stories, but I caught up on OC and last night I was watching the newer episode, which I know by the time this episode comes out it won't be that new.
But Maloney's in therapy. Stabler's in therapy, yes, and he's and.
It started out as the It started out as the therapy that you have to go to when you discharge your weapon and him being like, can I get out of here already? The same shit he always does. And then his female partner like convinced him to go back. So he goes back and he actually starts opening up and I was like, holy shit, is twenty twenty three the year? So why did he open up about his wife?
And you know, the guy just said something. The therapist said something to him that I think struck a chord where he was like, yeah, everyone acts like it's so unnecessary to be vulnerable in therapy and stuff. Well then why are you so scared to do it? Like why are you fighting so hard against doing it? Like basically something like that. And Stabler, you could tell, was like oooh, like you know, and then his partner convincing him to
go back, and he thanked her. He was like, thank you for convincing me to go back, Like it's a whole new year of Stabler.
Maybe maybe the show, maybe the people in charge did here or calls and if they if they want to and Marishka Stabler together, we need therapy, so yeah, maybe, yeah, I never want them to be together. But my biggest thing was, like he hasn't worked on himself in so long. Yeah, so you started real houses in Miami? Where are you are you? I started this season?
I okay, So I already watched I dabbled in one, two, and three, so I know kind of like I knew the Joanna Krup of it all, and like Marisol and her crazy mom and all that.
So I sort of.
Am like familiar with a couple of these people. So I didn't go to four. I started with five. I just I figured I could go back to four later. So I'm on five and I'm probably four episodes in, like I'm getting into like the weird shit with like Martina Navratilova and her wife where her wife is like stop making me make food for you when we're alone or whatever, and like Martina's like, wait, what have I got myself into?
Well, I'm poortant. You thought you've seen the news though?
Yeah?
That so we wish her, I know, sending her.
She has a recent health diagnosis, and I really I hope she's okay, but yeah.
She'd go back to watch season four. These women's like like Miami has become like close to New York. I think it's so good that these women give like they go hard, but they do love each other. Like the best part is when you could tell they're actually friends or like that's what's have connections and they do they care about each other. Like when Alexia's mom died, they all go to the feudure like they're there for each other, but they will be like, wow, you live in that place.
That's where hookers live. You know, they're so fucking mean. But the reason I thought of it was because Alexia and her family has been have been through so much. You know, their son, her son got no an accent, but then her older son beat up a homeless person went you know, god like, but really this was years ago, and she just keeps excusing it of like he was just scared about his brother this and that, and it's like, no, we're all going through something like you have to acknowl
she just keeps excusing it, and it bothers me. But she has Teresa energy, so I'm like scared to even talk about her. And then you know, he the charges got dropped, but there was like charges of domestic violence and he got into a fight with like the new husband and all this stuff, and he refuses therapy.
She won't push him, and it's like he needs therapy. Honestly.
There's something about him people, Yeah, there's something about him that really freaks me out. His monotone, like weird energy with his mom, Like, I don't know, he seems like one of those freaky quiet ones you gotta watch kind of guys.
I don't know.
And she's just even in the reunion about the domestic violence. She goes, domestic violence is a real problem for men. Women lie all the time. And you hear Julia on the couch, Oh my god. Yeah, and you hear Julia on the couch go, no, domestic violence is a big problem, and she goes, yeah, but there's both two sides. And it's like these are the mothers and the parents that create, Like you have to know your kid sucks.
I don't know. Yeah, it's like it's really.
It's tough because it's like you want unconditional love from your parents, but you need a parent to be like, it's fucked up what you did and you need to get help.
Yeah, yeah, and you need a parent that's going to burn your license at a pizza place because you've got caught drum driving Elliott Stabler.
Yeah, but I'm loving it. They're so rich.
They're really like I love the like the colorful, like wardrobe of Miami, Like everything is fun, the titties. I think Larsa Pippen looks like a weird Kardashian Like I don't know, but I like, yeah, I mean, I'm still getting a handle on who they all are. Like there there's one woman that I think might not be a housewife but just is hanging out and I'm like, are you it? Like you know, I'm just trying to figure them all out right now.
But I like Gerdy No, I love Gerty, but also Ira Madison sweeted this and it was like.
Us Miami is the best it's ever been.
And in reality, it's just like Lisa's life falling apart before our eyes, you know what I mean. It's just like so for those who don't watch, like this is because I know what I talked to, They're like, is
this real? And it's like, no, this is real, Like obviously there's produced parties and conversations, but like their lives are real, And so for those who are not watching, there's a woman who's been married to a piece of shit for fourteen years, a Russian Jew like me, but he legit after fourteen years, was like bringing his girlfri like legit, just told her like, I'm divorcing you, get
out of the house, take your fucking kids. And then while she was away working, like brought the twenty plus like twenty four year old girlfriend to the house with the kids, kicked his mom and the nanny out of the house, is out clubbing with this girlfriend while still married to this woman, and this woman is like dealing with it in real time, like and he got busted on a hot mike talking about it. Yes, a hot
mic cheating confession. It's like, yeah, it's he but you look at the old footage from even eight years ago, and it's uncomfortable to even watch.
He never liked, well, well, what's crazy too, is like I knew about it from you. I knew about it from just being like I follow Bravo accounts, so like I knew about the cheating before I started the season. And the way they are editing it is excruciating, Like if you know about it going in, they're making her look so dumb, like she just keeps talking about how happy they are.
She keeps talking about how they're on an Upsuing's not dumb, it's denial, it's hope.
I know.
But she doesn't really have parents. She does like Lenny is her world. She they're like knowing the editors, knowing that this is happening. It feels like they're doing her a little bit dirty, Like, oh no, I think they're making her victim. I think there were Now we're like Lisa.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.
I guess I haven't. I'll tell you something. I'm just getting up to the part with the Discovery. I'm just at the hot mic, like I'm the next thing I'm watching, so I haven't actually watched it yet.
He's editly number one.
I feel like everyone cares about her now, even though she But my whole thing is like when you marry for shallow reasons, Yeah, this is what you get, Like you expect true companionship and care when you married someone from my and you married someone for hot and it it's like he was gonna leave her because she couldn't get pregnant, Like he doesn't care about her.
Did she get pregnant? Thought?
Okay, But like the earlier seasons, it was very much like he's gonna leave me if I can't give him a child, and it's like, yeah, because you're not you're not truly in love connection. Yeah yeah, and he used you and now it's all falling apart, and it's like, but how did you think this was gonna work? I think the most jealous I've ever been is Nicole. I think Nicole is amazing. This neurosurgeon with a bang and body and a rich fiance was obsessed with her.
I thought she was an anesthesiologist. Yeah she is. What did I say? Neurosurgeon?
She's the same as what Tiffany Moon is, Right, they're both anesthesiology. They make yeah, which is a very complicated line of medical work.
I feel like I'm very lucrative.
I mean we have, Yeah, it started, but I did have a list of stuff. I know Ja Shetty.
Do you know him?
But yeah, why do I know that name? He's a popular podcast. He used to be a monk. He's like a guru of joy and happiness.
I don't know.
I just didn't know if I trust him or not. And I'm curious of our viewers. I didn't I did a deep dive through his instagram and I liked some stuff, but the idea of like Monk of the Earth, Salt of the Earth, people becoming influencers bothers me. And then his wife had a video of like how to properly drink water, and it was like.
Have we all been doing it wrong? It was annoying.
It was like room temp and it's like, shut up, stop stressing people out. Like if people are drinking water, let them drink it the way they need to drink it.
That's the least they're drinking it. Just drink water, everybody.
I told you I've been having a lot of problems with my thyroil. Like I've just been having problems. And I told my you know, coffee, I guess irritates it. And I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna give up coffee. And my endocronologist is like, that's the least of your problems. She goes, there's like ten things you need to stop doing before coffee. I have have coffee. She's like, you, I hear coffee and that's how I
fill with water. It's like, none of us, that's our biggest problem, Like we're all struggling to like take care of ourselves. We don't need some you know, bitch with light eyes telling us that.
We're drinking water wrong.
But they had this cute moment where it was like, she goes, you know, I'm sometimes I'm a brat and I asked you to get me my water bottle, but it's closer to me and you still do it, And how do you deal with me when I'm annoying?
And he goes.
I just realized, like that's how you need to be loved in that moment, and why wouldn't I do it? And I was just like, wow, you aren't. You guys are enlightened and focused. But then I'm like, but are you dead behind the eyes or not?
I just don't know. I just don't know. But listen, wait, we have huge news. We have huge news.
First, I'm going to say this episode comes out on the seventeenth, and on the nineteenth we're going to be in Philadelphia. There's still a few tickets left. On the twentieth, we're in New York. It's sold out. But look, maybe check the comments underneath the homework post. Sometimes people get COVID and they're giving away their tickets or whatever.
The twenty first, we're in Boston.
There are still a few tickets left for the four o'clock Boston show. Come see us. The seven o'clock is sold out. And then we're in Hartford on the twenty second. That's the last day to this big fall tour. So come to Hartford and see us on the twenty second. But the big news that I'm making you wait for is that tonight, Lisa and I are going to be on Watch What Happens Live.
Yeah, we're so excited.
Obviously, you guys know that besides U s FORU, our true love is Bravo, and we're so excited to be bartenders. We're not on the couch for bartenders, which is great, and we're gonna behind the bar.
I'm excited about is the people that are the main guests. I don't know if they're Bravo heads. So I'm hoping that he leans on us. Maybe he asks us a couple questions about what's going down in Bravoland.
Yeah, So anyway, if you have Bravo, tune into us tonight behind the bar. I'm stressing out trying to find an outfit, but hopefully I look presentable and uh, you guys can check us out there also, guys, we have tons of fun merch up in our merch store. It's like on our bio of our Instagram, or you can go to Thats Messed Up live dot com and scroll down to the bottom. The merch link is there, and that's also where you can get tickets for all of our shows. But we've got like a new beanie, a
fun fanny pack. I've been bringing the fanny pack around the name of fanny pack. Oh, mine just came like like during the break. Are you sure, I'll check the mailbox. I haven't checked yet. I'll check the mailbox. But I thought it would be like more of a package because it's thin. It's no, it's like in a thin little package. Yeah, I'm excited for that. And you know this is embarrassing.
I would rather not do this, but give us a little review, give us some five. Yeah, the Taylor Swift fans did come for us hard, and we would love to get our numbers.
Yeah us some stars throw some stars on the old I just recket those fucking wheat.
Review tell them, tell people why you enjoy us so, because I don't think we're you know, misogynists that are pick me girls.
But some people do. Some people think we which is so funny to me. I did it. Yeah. Misogyny is that you're not allowed to ever question a woman.
Yeah.
I was gonna say, we're missing dress yees like one hundred percent missing drifts. All right, but let's get started.
We have a hot episode for you guys today. Okay, we are doing a more recent one. This is from last season. SE's in twenty three. Tangled Strands of Justice came out April of twenty twenty two, so earlier this year.
I don't know when this episode's coming out, so Mike twenty three.
But it's such a good episode, reminiscent of the early years.
It really is awesome, really a great one. I'm so glad we got to do it. We open on a flashback and it is September eleventh, two thousand and one, and at seven am, So damn if you pay attention to that, you know something's about to go down. So a big group of cops are about to search an area in Harlem for a girl named Aretha Green, thirteen years old. Last scene in the park going to get her scooter or something like that, and hasn't been seen again.
And then there's a young Garland there, Christian Garland or departed from the show de more Barnes.
I almost said our dearly departed to more Barnes. But he's not dead. He just left the show.
And he's there wondering do you think we're going to find this girl? And his boss is like, son, we find old men and toddlers. Kids this age don't get found, and I think he means like they're either dead or they've run away. So the boss cop suddenly gets a radio call for his whole unit to mobilize to a different location because something's going on at the World Trade Center and it says, oh, yes, Sesna just hit one of the towers. So we're like seeing nine to eleven
happen on this show in real time kind of. And Garland just kind of stares back at this lake in the park and then just follows his boss. And now we cut to present day and the cops are at that same body of water, which is called the Harlem merror Meer, and there's talking about how this kid was fishing and he found a fingerbone and then there's a black bag filled with bones and when this cot bends down to look at it closer. This eel comes slithering out and it really freaked me out. But it's very
flatsom and jutsam, so I kind of love it. And he says, get this to the morgue. Like I think he's like pissed that he got busted in front of everybody looking freaked out because of the eel really freaked him out, so he's like, get this bag.
To the morgue.
So now we cut to a totally different scene a bedroom where a young woman in a tight dress is kind of tiptoeing around and she steals a watch off the bedside table as a very hairy man sleeps there, and she opens his drawer of his you know like drawers, and steals six more watches that are in like their own cases so you can tell they're pricey watches. She grabs her shoes and she gets the fuck out of there, and then we see the guy roll over and be like, baby, are you in the bathroom?
Where are you?
Kendall, So he's been I don't know Rick rold or trick rolled. I don't know what's going on. But we cut to our hairy victim walking the cops inside his bedroom, showing them where eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars in watches used to be. And with him is Detective Nadia Zabo and she works in with the Major Case Squad. And this is a fun fact. This is a Broadway diva named or Fe and she is the wife of Andy Carl aka Baby Dodds. So that's a fun little thing.
She's played tons of roles on Broadway and she's been on SBU before. She was a smaller part in the episode she paints for vengeance, but this is her big role as this detective who I think you guys are gonna love her or hate her.
It's a great role.
And the squad, the Major Case Squad Chris hate the character.
Yeah.
The Major Case Squad I looked up investigates homicides, kidnappings, burgery, larceny, and robberies that occur within the five boroughs of New York City. So I guess is this I believe is happening in Queens. But anything she covers all the Burroughs and basically any precinct can toss something up to Major Case if they feel like it's worth it. I never really looked into what major case was. I've heard them
talk about it, so I thought that was interesting. Anyway, this dude thinks the watches were stolen while he was out the night before because he doesn't even assume.
That it could be Kendall.
He thinks she just went back to her dormant NYU and they met on Sugar Baby's website, he says, and Detective Zabo's like, okay, bitch, so you've got some kind of arrangement with this girl. And he does not like her what she's implying. We are in a committed relationship, and she kind of like you know, raises a brow and he's like, look, I help her out sometimes, tuition books, whatever, and she's like, well, guess what, dude, we just checked and no one with that name goes to NYU. So
he's like, that's crazy, Kendall. You feel sad for this guy. He's like he's been robbed and now he's like his whole relationship is imploding. And he's like, she's never lied to me before. She's like a sweet injured fawn. She was even sexually assaulted in like, you know, I was trying to help her get over it. Kind of and then perks Zabo's ears right up. She's like, when when was she assaulted? And he goes a year ago and
I was helping her get over it. So they go to the bathroom and there's a lipstick message that says sorry daddy tests today xoxo with like a kiss, and so she goes wipe it all for Prince, get the DNA off this mirror or whatever. So now we cut to Garland in a Florida hotel room on a family vaka watching the news about the skeletal remains being found in the New York City body of water, and obviously this is peaking his interest and he remembers the old case.
So now cut back.
To major case and Detective Zabo is showing the man with the watches Kendall through the one way glass and he's like, yeah, that's her, and she goes e vaal, which means bravo, are well done in Farsie and he's shocked she speaks Farsie and she goes it's a long story, but we never hear a second of it, Like, we have no idea why she speaks Varsie, why is she you know? But whatever, So it's sad, and he goes, you really found the watches on her? I thought she
liked me. It's like a sad moment. And then he's like she did, but she did and she didn't or something like that. She's got some kind of quip. And then Kendall's lawyer is our girl, Mausam macar and here is where she's playing attorney Dara mclauney, because we interviewed her when she was the victim in the gamer Gate episode, but she has this recurring role in later seasons where she's this attorney named Dara mcgloney.
And we've talked to a lot of people, but for some reason with Maozam, we do get extra excited.
It is yeah, I don't know why, but we're I just she was.
We watched this episode together in a hotel and we both are.
Like, Masam, yeah, we were like, it's our.
Friend, but you know she might literally ignore us at a party, so who knows. And she's like, what's going on? My client was living under a different identity. How did you find her? And Zabo like evades the question and is like, tell your client to confess to grand larceny.
She might not even do time.
So now back in New York, Garland is fresh from his trip to Orlando, meeting up with Benson at a diner and he shows her the missing poster of Aretha from two thousand and one and he thinks it's her.
And now we're at the credits.
I mean, can you believe, like we've literally been in ten locations across different time periods. This is like the most packed credits pre cold open of all time. So top of Actwan Garland's telling Rollins and Vinnie Barberino fucking velasco how Aretha went missing September tenth. He's not for me, his like goomba voice, like I don't know. He's like, uh, he seems like a guy who always has his mouth
open a little bit, you know what I mean. And Garland's explaining, He's like, look, Aretha went missing on September tenth of the year of September eleventh, and he was I was barely out of the academy. We were performing a grid search around the Harlem Mere that was never finished because of the attacks, and the investigation got completely sidelined. And Rollins is like, isn't this a homicide case?
Chief? And it's like he's not a chief anymore.
And we find out that he's about to become deputy mayor of the new administration. So homicide and all the other departments besides sp are about to hate his guts, and so Benson's like, I'll deal with homicide, and he goes. My boss at the time was Karl Mannix. He was the duty captain. He's retired in Hempstead, which is on Long Island, and Rollins and velasco. You take the lead on this, Benson says. And she sends them to Long Island. But she goes, but not on your motorcycle. She's such
a mom. And so now we're on on Long Island talking to the boss cop from the Aretha search and he's old. Now he's got an oxygen tank. And Rollins is once again in gorgeous outerwear. You know, you can't ever knock her for that, And Mannix remembers the whole case.
He's like, oh, yeah, I.
Would love if people were knocking her for it, being like great, another camel.
Coat, yeah, another camil trench. Yeah. So Mannix remembers the whole case. He's like, yeah, she seemed like a nerdy kid, like she didn't see like strike me as a runaway, and they're like, yeah, so the investigation kind of got pushed to the back burner, and he's like, try pushed off the stove, like there was before and after nine to eleven. But during he says, I think there were a lot of tragedies that went unsolved, like during the
days around it. And so he says the mother called every day for months, he had no leads, and they were busy pulling bodies out of the rubble of nine to eleven, So it sounds very like, you know, traumatic for everyone. And he talks about how guys his age lost a lot more after nine to eleven because I think of I think he's basically talking about all of the illness that came to first responders, and he's like
some of us were luckier than others. He taps his little oxygen tank and goes, I've had lung cancer since twenty sixteen. And then when he hears about how they found the body and it might be Aretha, he does the sign of the Cross and tells the detectives he hopes they see it through and he says, tell the mother he's sorry, and we see Carisi on the phone now in a different scene coming down the steps and he's obviously on the phone with Rollins and he's like, yeah,
I'm gonna make falaffel tonight. And I'm like, I wonder if Coorsi's falafful is any good? And he gets approached by our best friend. You do, Yeah, I think he's good in the kitchen.
It took me a second, but I was like, yeah, yeah, it's like making a meatball, right, but what different? Yeah, But like the problem with falaffel is like it gets so dry, like you really have to figure out a way to like make falaffel. I feel like, no tastes like a bunch of like keene wall of oporating in your mouth.
Not that it's made out of quenoa. I think it's it's it's chickpea or something, but you know it, oh.
I do.
But I like it when you get it in the sandwich and it's got like all that sauce on it to make it give you some moisture.
You know.
I used to love going to that Falaffel place near the comedy cellar.
Yeah my mood. Yeah, so that is amazing, Moon.
But uh yeah, I don't think many people just pop them in their mouth. But Cafe Mogador has great Falaffel humusplate. I think it's one of my favorites ever. And then obviously Peeda In and Skokie. But you're right, it's a delicate balance because you want to crunch and you want it moist.
Yeah, totally, but not too dry but not not dripping.
So yeah, yeah, I love Meddle. Yeah, we want to right, so good.
So while he's like, he hangs up with a Falaffel talk and he gets approached by Miglauney aka our best friend Mouseam and she explains her case and she's like, it's kind of weird how major case found my girl, Like she has a burner, a different idea, like no idea, Like he didn't know any of her real details. And they're being really cagy about how they found her, and Cariese's like, this isn't really my wheelhouse and then she's like, hold up, you know you know who my client is.
He was one of Henry Messner's victims last year. This is the kid from Born Psychopath in season fourteen, who then returned in season twenty two in the episode called Postgraduate Psychopath and she goes, you know, the psycho who speared you in the ear to carees ring any bells, and he's like yeah, and he's like, who's the victim, and.
She goes Libby Blandon.
So if you remember this episode, she was the daughter of Henry's psychiatrist who he sexually assaulted and tortured, so it was a really brutal assault. We cut to Benson saying, damn, that was a brutal assault, and they're like major case was able to id her twelve hours from the initial report, Like how would.
You be able to do that?
And mglaanney heard one of the detectives say that they didn't need Libby's DNA because they already had it. But she's never been arrested in New York and Lives Like even if she'd been arrested in another state, that's like too quick to rush DNA.
So this is very weird. This is like red flags for them.
So Libby's already been ro r and Live is like going to take this one on personally because this girl needs an advocate. So rollins we're playing both of these stories at the same time. We're back on the Aretha storyline. And rollins walks into the morgue to get some scoop on the girl from the mirror. And this is male Milinda named Frank Wood is the actor and he is playing Emmy Abel Truman, and he's been in a couple
episodes that we've watched lately. Actually, I just watched like an episode from two weeks ago on SPU and it's really good of this current season. I know I've been shitting on this current season a little bit, but this episode I just watched this morning at five thirty am when I couldn't go back to sleep, was really good. And it's called A Better Person. That's the episode, and I really liked it. I'm not done. I I'm like five minutes from the end, but because you know, my
kids woke up and ruined my life. So the Emmy says he's got some info. He's working on a genetic profile. He can't determine cause of death definitively, but maybe it was a skull fracture and water washed away most of
the evidence. But they do have all of what he calls meta data, which is like the overalls, the sneaker souls, the watch band, like all these possessions that were with the bones and says it's poss and you know, Rollins is like, is it possible she was down there since two thousand and one and he goes it is and then he wheels out the kicker, which is a tiny baby skeleton of a fetus twenty to twenty four weeks, and Velasco goes field Bones like in this dumb fucking voice,
and then it's like, yeah, she was pregnant, and that's a big done done, and that's the end of the act. So now we are talking to Aretha's family and her grandfather is like, oh, yeah, those scooters were so popular, because this is like why Aretha went into the park that night, because she'd left hers and her mother, Cora, who is an amazing actress. This woman is Cora is played by Nicki Micheau, and I thought she was so
good in this episode. She's been an episode of Vieps, she's been in Six feet Under, she's in good trouble, she's got seventy two credits working and she's a great actress. And Rollin shows Cora a picture of the watch and she goes, I did give Aretha a watch like that for a good report card, and then they look really sad because it's starting to really look like that's her, and they're like, well, we need to make sure do
you have anything with her DNA on it. So she takes them back to Aretha's old room and she's like, I always saw Aretha ran away.
She'd been depressed. I thought I did something wrong.
So it's like so sad, and then she gives the detective some of Aretha's baby teeth that she kept in a little baggy. So now now Live is talking to Libby and she's like, I haven't talked to my mom in months. She blamed herself for all the Henry stuff, like so much that I started to believe her. So I think she just needed some time away from her mom.
But she's still her mom had her number for emergencies, so when her mom's receptionist called and said get to the office right away, she thought it was a huge problem and ran to her mom's office and that's where the cops were ready to bring her in. And she says she's never been arrested before, she's a first timer. And they're like, so, what's up with the different identities, And she's like after my I just didn't want to be Libby anymore. I have a different identity for everyone
I date. And she's like, it's not like I make a habit out of this.
I just wanted to.
Feel taken care of. Bijean was safe. I shouldn't have taken the watches. I wonder why she did take the watches. It sounds like this guy gave her a lot of stuff.
I don't know. I really don't know.
An impulsed yeah, but she says, the only time I've ever given my DNA is when SPU did my rape kit. So now things are starting to get really fishy. So now we've got boss Lady Lives strolling into major case squads, obviously in a long ass coat, looking like a badass, and she goes right up to Detective Zabo and she introduces herself, and Detective Zabo's.
Like, I know who you are, why are you here? And Live asks her, I.
Kind of want to know how you id'd Libby Blandon and Sabo basically pulls the like I don't come down to where you work and ask how you put rapists away thing, which you know.
It's like, bitch, you're caught. You got to say how you found out soon?
But Benson's like, look, this doesn't have to be a pissing content and Zabo's like, great, let's not make it one now, if you'll excuse me, I've got d D Five's like, she really is not scared of live at all, and you know, in real life these two are friends, So I kind of love this dynamic. And now Liv is talking to Careesi about Zabo and she's like, yeah, she's a real ray of sunshine, and she's fucking defensive as hell and lives wondering is it possible that she
accessed Libby's rape kit to get the DNA? And Caresee's like absolutely not, no way, Like that place is rules on rules on protocol. A cop would never be able to access a victim's DNA. He goes, that's inconceivable, and liv says, okay, well, I put in a call to the General Council at the OCME anyway, And the OCEME is the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, so they refer to it a lot in this episode. Meanwhile, Velasco and Rollins are finding out that the bones do belong
to Aretha, so we have solved this case. That was Aretha and what we've sold the identification excuse me, not the case, and the fetus was a boy. The DNA of the U I guess the paternal DNA was not in codis and not a familial match, but he was African American. So they go tell the family and Garland goes too, and the mom is so sad. She goes, she's been in the water all this time, all alone.
It's so sad. She's like, I want her breaking. Yeah, it's like really really because like all these years you thought you did something wrong, twenty years of thinking maybe your daughter's out there alive but just choosing not to talk to you. But the whole time she's been blocks away from you, dead like horrible. And so she goes, I want her remains. I want to bury her, and they also then decide to break her the news to her that Aretha was five months pregnant, and Cora is not hearing that.
She's like, that can't be true. She was just a baby.
She starts to get really upset, and her dad jumps in and is like, I think you guys got to go now, and they're like, okay, but we do need to talk to you later and she's like. He's like, okay, but for now, get the hell out of here. So now Live is doing a walk and talk with the General Counsel for the OCME and she's like, there's no way a victim's profile was actually, it's just impossible. Victim
DNA is never uploaded to any database. So they go talk to this dude named Harry and he admits that he fully ran the DNA from the Crime against the Victims of assaults in twenty twenty one and found her file and the case was still open pending trial.
The General counsel is pissed.
She's like, you didn't check with a supervisor and he's like, well, the request came from major case, not some shitty, low level detective. And now he's like it's not illegal, and Lives like yeah, because no one thought to create a law about something so fucking unethical, like no one would do that, And the General Council is like, this is
against our protocol. We will be launching an investigation, and Lives like yes, So hold the DA's office and he's like and she goes, please tell me you've only done this this one time, and his face says fuck no, I do this all the time. So at the precinct, Cora comes in to talk to the detectives and she's like she's gotten herself under control now and she's ready to talk about like figuring out who did this to Aretha. But she's like, she didn't have any boyfriends. She was
a good girl. She was all about school. If she had a boyfriend, I would have known about it. And she said her grandfather, Aretha's grandfather, was always watching her while Kora worked, so you know, it wasn't like she had was a latch key kid with like all this time where she could have been entertaining boyfriends. Now we're talking to the grandpa and he's remembering nine to eleven.
He's like, oh, I remember us watching the news all day and we thought maybe Aretha went down there to help, like, and he says she always came home after school. Sometimes boys came over, but it was just to study. And he said he was always there, but you know, sometimes a guy has to take a walk, and so if he ever left the house, Red was there. And they're like, who the hell is Red? And the grandfather's like, oh, oh, I better not say anything else. I don't want Coora
getting pissed at me. So we find out later that Red was Coorra's boyfriend and that he would occasionally be alone in the house with Aretha. But there is nothing in the police report about a boyfriend. So now they ask Cora about it. Coora is upset when they asked her about Red. They're like, She's like, who told you about that? And then she's like, this doesn't bring Aretha back?
And then she you know, pulls it together and is like, Okay, Red was married, we were having an affair, and I didn't want to drag him and his whole family through this whole thing. He was an ex ray technician at the hospital where I worked as a nurse. After Aretha's disappearance, he moved to Uniondale, which is also on Long Island. We're doing a lot of visiting to Long Island this episode. So now Benson is meeting with TRILD Division Chief Lorraine Maxwell.
And this is Betty Buckley. She's been recurring in a few of these more recent seasons. And I didn't know this, but she is a Broadway legend. I don't even know if we've ever talked about this. She won a Tony Award for originating the role of Grizabella in the original Cats. So big, big Broadway baby here, and.
You could tell she's highly educated, she's rich, she's powerful, she's thoughtful.
She went to Barnard, you know what I mean.
Yes, totally Trial division chief. I don't really know what that means, but it seems like she's well compensated, and she's just as disgusted about these tactics that were used to track down Libby. They found two other cases where there were convictions a kid who was assaulted at age nine and then later picked up at age seventeen in the Bronx and convicted of carjacking, and then a sex worker who was raped two years earlier and then was recently convicted of forgery and wire fraud. And then now
there's Libby. And they're like, we did find that all six of the breaches in the system were made by this same guy, Harry Kent, and they were all at the request of Detective Zabo. Okay, so liv Is like, yeah, Henry should have stood trial for Libby's rape, but he got himself back into the mental hospital and Libby's probably been spiraling, and Cariesy's like, yeah, but the victim did id her she had watches like she had the watches, and Benson's like, I don't give a fuck. This set's
a dangerous precedent. The whole case needs to be thrown out. And Maxwell's like, I'll call the Queen's DA and I said, I wrote, I'm not sure how Queen's is involved here, but I know it's because that's where the crime took place of the theft of the watches. Velasco and Rollins are now back on Long Island talking to Red, Cora's
old boyfriend, and he's sad to hear about Aretha. He's like, after she disappeared and then it was nine to eleven, I just wanted to get my shit together, so I moved my family out of the city to Long Island. And he said Aretha was really smart. She wanted to be a doctor. She was all about schoolwork. He offers to give his DNA as long as his wife and kids don't find out. So he really doesn't seem like the guy if he's like so willing to come forward with DNA and talk to the cops.
And he says, tell Cora, my heart goes out.
I haven't start I haven't stopped thinking about her and Nina And they're like yeah, and they're like, who the fuck is Nina? And they're like, Aretha's little sister. She'd be pushing thirty at this point, is what Red tells them. So, now, why is Cora leaving so many details out of this?
Live is on the phone with Rollins and thinks it's weird that Cora hasn't mentioned Nina, and then you know, they figure it out and then she hangs up, and right as she hangs up, we see Detective Zabo blowing into the precinct like a hurricane and she's like, you got.
Some nerve, Captain.
Everyone's on my ass, but thank god, my captain has my back. And then she's like you're gonna need it. You on ethical bitch, And then she she's like, you violated NYPDS protocols about victim privacy and lives, Like, do you know how hard it is to get a victim to come forward and submit to an invasive rape kit, Like the least we can do is not use their
DNA against them. And then she's like, well, tell that to the mother of a twenty five year old boy shot during a carjacking and live like shuts the door to the office, and this is where we get the real fucking tea. She goes, why don't you do some actual investigating instead of trading sexual favors for shortcuts to the DNA database.
Done? Done.
She's been fucking Harry Kent, this DNA guy, to get him to look up DNA in her cases, which is wild. And then Sabo turns it around on Benson. So maybe she knows some shit about Benson's past, because she goes, you're scolding me for doing favors for people I'm involved with.
That's rich.
So she's obviously talking about Dean Winter's aka Cassidy because you know, in a previous episode she was like kind of housing Cassidy while he was on the lamb for allegedly killing his molester, which he did not do, but he was.
You know, a suspect.
And so I guess everybody knows that about Benson in the cop world.
And it's like, yeah, so she's fucking the nrty lack guy.
They always been the rules at sv you know, for Simon, she did a lot like.
For Simon, for Kathleen. I mean, they're all doing shit for family. I mean, if I had a cop relative, i'd be like, hello, parking tickets, like come on.
So like I got.
Another fucking I got more money that I have to pay for my fucking towing that happened months ago. Oh why yes, because when they took my car, my registration was expired, so I got an additional ticket for that, even though I updated it. But I haven't been home, so it's now instead of ninety dollars, it's like two hundred and seventy dollars.
But like, fuck everyone, fuck la, fuck cars.
I just like, I just want some I want to live like mister big you know, I want baba.
I just want like driver, Yeah, I want a driver. Yeah. I want to be like Bethenny Frankel.
I want to be crying hysterically and the man driving me around going, oh, miss Lisa, it's okay.
And he's your best and only friend. Yeah, when you're going through a tragedy, okay. So anyway, Benson's like, fuck you, Sabo, I've never put a rape victim in jeopardy, and she goes, oh, you've never put your finger on the scale for a former partner or an iab rat so I don't know if she's bringing up maloney there too, because.
I'm borrow, yeah, borrow or tomorrow.
So it's like they're shit going on, and it's like, damn this bitch ros.
Yeah, there's a lot of nonsense at SV.
Yeah, and this bitch knows lives business like she knows everything.
But it's so different.
This is like all stuff for this is like you are violating victims rights and privacy and going against the like Fourth Amendment rights to close cases instead of actually do I love what she goes, how about you do some investigating Like that's my favorite.
Yeah, she's like, go do some investigating, get some subpoenas, like actually figure this out, Like you're kind of you're just doing it for shortcut, because like you found this girl in twelve hours, you could have maybe found her other ways, you know anyway.
Uh.
I Also, that guy wouldn't have called the cops if he thought Libby had done it, yeah, because he likes He probably wouldn't have You're right, he probably would have just tried to get in touch with her and said, babe, come back, I want the watches back, but I forgive you. So after she makes that accusation about the former partner and the ib rat lives, like, get the fuck out of my office, and they keep screaming at each other,
and it's like a full fucking showdown. Like I don't think I've seen live have a back and forth with like another person like this or not in a while.
Like it's a great showdown. And then she slams the door in Zabo's face and she's like bye, and so that's the end of.
Actuating she sucks Zabo.
But like it's usually Surproicoh, it's usually some guy with eyebrows and it's really annoying and enraging. But this was like entertaining. This is entertainment. This was like such a good scene. You could tell their chemistry. I was obsessed.
Yeah, yeah, And so h top of A four, they're talking to Korra and she says, well, the cops never asked me if I had another kid. And Nina was upset about her sister and she was crying, so I sent her to a neighbor's house. I didn't want the cops to get her like more upset. And it's like, seems weird. There wasn't like a picture of the other girl in the house. Like the cops just never knew there was another child residing at the residence.
That's weird.
So they say, we need to talk to Nina, and Cora and her dad are like, naw, we don't fuck with her anymore. She chose drugs, she chose life on the street. And the mom says, I haven't seen her in five years. I already lost one daughter. I didn't want to watch another just fade away in front of me. So sad, but also she could be traumatized about her missing sister. So they go sorry to her, and she goes, don't be I ran out of tears for her a long time ago, is what Cora says about Nina.
And then she's brutal. What a sad life?
Yeah, and she she says she always thought that they'd find Nina before they found Aretha. So she's really sad. So they look up Nina's record. She's been in and out of jail, prostitution, possession, and now she's in a
halfway house. So they go there and the guy there says that Nina's been doing really well and that she's been working her program, but that then her grandfather came by to visit earlier that day and Nina seemed really upset and they went out for she went out for a smoke and she never came back, and he's scared that she's out trying to score. So now, sorry, it's still confusing with going back between the two stories. Libby now is at Cariese's office and she's like, what do
you mean, Like, why is my DNA out there? And they're trying to kind of explain it to her, and she's like, I should just plead guilty.
I did it.
I don't want to be like Henry Messner and like play the system and lives Like, okay, you can make restitution for what you did, but like, we can't set this as a precedent that people can find DNA this way. And they're like, well tell it to the Queen's DA because the Queen's granjury just handed down an indictment. So now at court and Queens Libby pleads not guilty and is roward. Detective Zabo is in court following up on
her shit. She walks out and runs into Benson and Maxwell as they're walking in, and bet Maxwell's like, oh, Hi, what's up. We're gonna of you all of your arrests and you'll be hearing from us. And she's like Zabo goes glad you have the time for that, and then walks out. I mean, she sucks, but she's a great like she gives good attitude, you know what I mean, Like if she was on you'd want her on your side, I think. So the judge is so pumped to see Maxwell.
He's like, he's like, Lilian Maxwell, to what do I owe? It's not the US open like he loves this woman, and she's like, I've been trying to get in touch with the DA of Queens DA DraCos and the judge is like, oh, I can put in a call.
All you have to do is take me to a steak dinner.
And I like seeing this, uh you know, this handshaking going on with these weird judges. So they go see the DA DraCos and she's like, what's up.
What do you want?
And they're like, we want you to drop this case and she's like why the girl's guilty of a felony and Thenson's like, yes, but this detective should never have access to the DNA, and Lilian's like every subsequent finding is tainted and the DA goes under what law and she's like, I have sympathy for rape victims, but they don't get a get out of jail free card. And she's like, if I drop this one, where does it stop?
And it's like live is like what message does it zend to rate victims to know that their DNA could be used against them? This will completely chill reporting and set us back decades. She goes, well, then you should be fixing your problem with the OCME, like, I guess, and they're like, we're not dropping this, and she's like, well't me neither, bitch.
So I don't know what you want to do.
And then Maxwell leans in and goes, you're not on a moral high ground here. This is quicksand and they walk out and the DA does look nervous. She looks like, fuck, maybe I shouldn't have put this all into getting like the watches, like it's watch theft and the watches have been returned, like this seems like an.
Easy case to drop.
Velasco and Rollins are now at this you know, sketchy building, questioning a dealer about Nina and he goes, she didn't have the cash. So she's out trying to do sex work to make money for it for drugs. So then they find her and she is is, you know, just walking away from a car or whatever, and they're like flash their badges and she's like, I was just giving that guy directions and then they're like, no, we need
to talk to you about Aretha. So in the next scene, Nina's with them in the precinct and she's like, yeah, my grandfather told me they found Aretha.
I thought it was another one of his lies.
And then so they're like, we told Cora about how Aretha was pregnant, and Nina's like, why'd you tell her that? Like I knew she was pregnant, but I didn't want my mom to find out and her my grandfather said it would kill her, and it's like, so he knew she was pregnant. Like everyone knew this girl was pregnant,
except for Cora. So then we find out through a Garland Creesy walk and talk that the grandfather is a match for the fetal bones Done done, so he's not Cora's biological dad, and he refused a lawyer, so maybe he's ready to confess. And now we're talking to this grandpa that we've been seeing the whole time, and he admits that when his girlfriend told him she was pregnant, he had doubts that it what might not be his child because he was in the National Guard and he
was out of town all the time. But he said, I stepped up the right thing. I married her and I treated Cora like my own child. So this explains why the DNA doesn't match. So then he admits that Aretha dying was an accident. When she told him that she was pregnant, he said, you cannot have this baby, and she said she was going to tell Coora her mom, and he tried to reason with her. He says he got angry. He shook her and she fell against the tub and hit her head. He did not mean to
kill her. He loved her. She was the light of his life. And then he goes and us together. She was not my grandchild, so it was not a sin against God. And it's like she was thirteen, you fucking freak like and you are by all accounts her grandfather like.
And I like that.
It's like shaking sent sense to her and the senses don't tell your mother that you.
Are like what, yeah, I.
Mean the mental gymnastics of this man, and I hope he dies a terrible death in prison.
Right, So he's gonna die and ice cold.
Yeah, it's just scary to think that you are living with a person that's supposed to care about you for years and years and this is who they are deep down, just hiding their monstrousness.
It's scary. Yeah, completely, so awful, manipulating everyone.
Everyone's life's gone to shit, everyone's miserable around you, someone is dead. You don't think you've done anything wrong. You're the sister's a drug addict, like, everyone's having all this issues, and you're just like, what, I.
Didn't do anything.
Yeah, yeah, it's not a sin against God. It's like you've done something illegal against the law. You've done something in many way two things, killing her and raping her are both illegal. But if it's not a sin against the Lord, we can live with it.
That's this kind of person that, Yeah, I forgot that the Bible lets you like rape kids and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, So we we find out he's gonna die in jail, so they're gonna go tell Kora. As for the DNA situation, Maxwell's like, I think I got it figured out and then she tells Live this like crazy. She goes, well, I had dinner with that judge who's obsessed with me. He got sauced on too many drinks and told her that he asked Mausam maccarr's character to request a bench trial for Libby, and then he's totally going to find her not guilty.
You know, a bench trial.
You know this, Lisa, But just in case anybody forgets, is I think when you put it all in the judge's hands. So I think we saw this in the episode Poison with Tom Scarett. The woman knew that he favored her, so she asked for a bench trial, and so he's going to find her not guilty, and then he's got some ideas about her other convictions as well, because he's got the scalding hot tea on Da DraCos
whose husband was cheating on her. So she cut and pasted this judge's signature on orders for a wiretap, and he just knew about that, and he's just been sitting on it. So now it's like, you know, he basically forced her hand on this.
And so now we click on the TV.
As always on this show, we click on the TV right as a you know, a press conference is going on and the DA from Queen's DraCos is making a statement and she's sitting there. She's got SABO on one side of her, she's got the OCME General counsel on the other side, and she's going, we found a huge flaw in the system and we're going to fix it.
And it's wild.
Like Benson's like, you're going to fix the flaw that you created and then like wanted to ignore until you've got your fucking ass handed to you for being a psycho. And so now she's crusading about making this practice illegal and like Benson's like, wow, that is hootspa.
But either way, it got done.
And Betty Buckley's character goes, I've learned the best way to get anything done is to let other people take the credit.
And she ain't wrong.
Another Yeah, that's a that's a really good lesson too.
Yeah.
I mean, I know, we you and I have been talking about things where we're like we need to make people think that they thought of it themselves, you know what I mean, Like you have to kind of play into people's ego a little bit sometimes.
To get what you want.
Okay, so in the final scene, Cora and Nina are like walking hand in hand, like arm in arm, like thank god they're back reunited at least, like, you know, the family's not completely shattered. And she's like over the whole thing with her father who's not really her father. She's like, it's over now. All that matters is that it's me and Nina. We're going to have a service
for Aretha. And then they they you know, walk off, and we hope that at least they have some closure and can work on their relationship and that hopefully Nina gets her life on track. And Garland says to Rollins and Careesy like this is kind of case. Does not make me miss being a cop. And then he's like, godspeed guy's checulator. And then Releasi go arm in arm off into a beautiful New York day And that's Dick Wolf Bibbie.
But a great rate episode. Yeah, really good.
And I so, how are the two cases related, just like DNA and evidence and finding safe mistakes in the system, Like what why did they connect? Why do they make these two oh tangled strands of justice?
Because I thought that was DNA?
Well, yeah, I think it is because I think DNA is eventually what busts the grandfather, and it's like it is a very important part of Aretha's case as well. So I kind of wish there had been more of like a discovery of that, Like there wasn't much of a discovery, which just like, oh, so it turns out he's not really the dad, like and the DNA matches, like we just kind of bypassed that, like that was more of a tell, don't show moment.
But yeah, this is a great episode.
And sometimes I don't like the ones where there's three stories going on at the same time, but two it kind of works for me.
Yeah, so we can handle two. I can follow, you can follow an A and a B.
But yeah, I know that this is based I've read very little on what this is based on. So I'm looking forward to you telling me so we will be r B.
So this is obviously really current since it was also a new episode, but it is hard to research things that are truly happening within months from today, like a few months before, like all kind of active. It's pretty interesting and just a different experience. But so this is based on two crimes. We're going to focus on the DNA part since the other crime has been covered in a few other SVU episodes, so we will talk about it one day, but we're just going to focus on
the DNA psycho situation being used of victims. So, in twenty sixteen, a victim who is in San Francisco had her DNA collected and stored in the system in a domestic violence and sexual assault case. Jane Doe, and she will be referred to that throughout. Her identity has not been revealed. She told police in twenty sixteen that she had been raped by her mother's boyfriend, who also then
killed her mother. Doe and her sister were being sexually abused by their mother's boyfriend and that someone from her school reported it to the police, and the girl and her sibling were taken out of the home, which prompted the boyfriend to confront her mother about the allegations and then he straight up fucking murdered her.
The officer, and I know, the.
Officer who investigated the sex abuse came to the funeral to apologize, And that's like very Elliott Stabler.
Nobody needs you at a funeral.
You can schedule an appointment in a week or two like you're supposed to protect that family. You did the wrong thing. You took them like you did not protect everybody. And the funeral is not the place to get forgiveness unless you're there just just shickley mourn, like fuck this guy. So for a long time, the woman understood and knew the police was never there for her best interests. And then her DNA was using an unrelated property climb slash theft,
slash burglary. It's kind of unclear what it is, and every source kind of says something different. Her DNA was in the police Department crime lab database and was tied to a burglary in late twenty twenty one, years after her twenty sixteen assaults. She was arrested in December twenty twenty one and charged with burglary, slash, retail theft, slash proper.
I mean, I don't know.
That it sounds like shoplifting. I'll be honest, Like it sounds like shoplifting. It's like not the worst crime.
No, And she ended up having was held in jail for several months because she could not afford bail.
Fuck you are you serious? Yes, yeah, for burglary, retail theft. This is why we need to get rid of cash bail Ugh.
She said, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, that the incident made her feel like she was reliving her trauma all over again and reliving all that stuff. This obviously caused a national outcry from advocates, law enforcement, legal experts, and lawmakers, since this could affect victim's willingness to come forward to authorities after being assaulted.
They very well covered this in the episode.
Already we know that eighty percent of like sex crimes do not even get reported at all. It's so invasive, it's so fucked up. Rape kits don't get tested. It's it's already so rare and brave that people come forward, and then to have this happen is just pretty horrible. And it also violates the victim's Fourth Amendment rights, which protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures. And there is already a federal law that prohibits the inclusion of victims
DNA and the National Combined DNA Index system. Yet the San Francisco Police Department Crime Lab director said that this was standard practice. Dan Crane, a biology professor at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio.
Whoop.
I don't know why, but our friend went to college in Dayton, not even at that school. Okay, But he said even with the federal law that in general, there's a lack of state and local laws across the country that restrict what can be done with local DNA databases. Most law enforcement, he says, act like stamp collectors when it comes to collecting DNA, and the more people they can get in the database, the happier they are.
This would be like a munch Field day if munch was still on the squad, like you know, he was so against the whole like collecting our DNA so they can use it for other shit, like big brother of it all.
You know, too bad, he's gone, too bad. He's living a life in France. But I'm just saying, like, you know.
Yeah, and I like the idea of the stamp collecting because it's kind of like, you know, they won't try cases if they can't win because they care about their record or they you know, it's just like all about them and it's not about anyone else. Or even like how cops have to go like ticket people at the end of the month to get their quotas everything is like about them and their and their stats and their information and how much DNA can we get because we're lazy fucks who can't do our job anyways.
District Attorney CHESSA.
Budin Boudin whatever is the benson of this whole situation, but is a man. And I had to go through my notes and change the whole way through. I was fortunately was recalled.
Yes, I was. Yeah, I'm sorry.
I didn't know if you were going to get to that, but it's such bullshit. I've read a lot about that.
Yeah.
I definitely thought it was a woman the whole time because of how good he was and caring. And then I was in his name, and then I was like, oh, that is a man. He has been recalled in. Yeah, we'll get to it. So she was searching through see, I wrote she. So he was searching through hundreds of pages of evidence against a woman who had been charged with this felony property crime. But after learning the source
of the DNA evidence, Boodin dropped the charges. Bo was quoted saying that this treats victims like like evidence, not human beings. Shortly after this incident, the crime lab stopped the practice after receiving a complaint from the DA's office and changed its operating procedure to prevent the misuse of DNA in the future, because if police have access to data, they will find a way to search that data.
Not they are not to be trusted.
Our DNA is ways too sensitive to leave it for access by cops and prosecutors.
On any whim that they decide.
Yeah, not to mention they could like misuse it, like plant it, you know, like there's so many reasons why that should not be.
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that, and yeah, So August twenty twenty two, California lawmakers approved a bill that would prohibit using the DNA profiles police collect from sexual assault survivors and other victims for any purpose other than aiding and identifying the perpetrator and to differentiate between their DNA and the suspects. Senator Winers legislation to protect sexual assault victims DNA past the Assembly and it received well.
One source set it received a unanimous vote, and then another source said that there was a single dissenting vote and it was from an assembly member Marie Waldron, Republican, San Diego County.
So I don't know, but we can't be surprised.
Not shocking, and it's so not surprising. And so I did read about San Diego and Orange County and they have wild DNA practices that ACLU and MUNCH types alike have been having a lot of issues with. So in San Diego police were stopping juveniles and only letting them leave after they end quotes consented to the collection of DNA from children.
What.
Yeah, it was later outlawed, of course by California state law. But in San Diego they were just like bullying and stopping juveniles and being like, we're not letting you go unless you give us, unless we swab your mouth.
Yeah, because it's like trying to it's just kind of trying to like create a full database of all people and all of our DNA, and I just find that that's too scary. There's some that just kids. There's too much room for misuse and mistreatment. You know, oh one Hondo in Orange.
County, And I know that's not San Diego and has nothing to do with victims, but it's just like it's just so telling because it's also like super Republican y military air yet that are all about freedom and little government, and yet they're totally fine with taking people's DNAs against their well, you know.
It's fucked up.
So around Orange County they have a spit and a quip program where if people agree to provide a DNA sample for the local database, charges in petty misdemeanors will be dropped. The OC database has one hundred and fifty thousand people's DNA who would otherwise not have it, So just something to think about.
It's so funny because it's like my dad never would get an easy pass and he'd be like, I don't want the government tracking where I'm going, and I'm like, you're such a loser, and like, get through tolls faster.
No one is fucking tracking where you're going.
But then like something like this, I'm like, yeah, the government shouldn't just have a bunch of loose DNA like to just know.
So it's like if you don't pick up your dog's shit was one of the examples in the article, and you get in trouble for a petty misdemeanor, they're like, we'll drop it if you just let us have your DNA. Yeah, but I've also given my eyes to clear, so who am I?
Who am I to judge? But your eyes are not a thing yet.
I'm wondering, and we'll get into this when we do this episode. But like, you know, how they found the Golden State killer like partially through ancestry dot Com DNA.
Like, I'm wondering how that's legal.
Well, even though I do think let's find old serial killers that way, but I don't think let's like compel people's DNA.
I don't know.
Yeah, Maine and Maryland have just did legislation about like ancestry shit, but and not how to use DNA or not.
But yeah, you know, for a different fucking day. Right.
So the bill that I just talked about was sponsored by both the DA's office and the Prosecutor's Alliance of California, as well as Black Women Revolt, which is a group that provides resources and focuses on anti domestic violence advocacy for black women. The only approved use of victims DNA is to identify the perp, and that is that September thirtieth of this year, twenty twenty two, the Governor of Cala, Gavin Newsom, approved the bill and it was filed with
the Secretary of State and signed into law. And I was trying to I tried really hard to find what the laws are in all the different states, and I was not able to find it.
Yeah, it should be a federal law, really, but well it kind of is.
The federal law exists of this banner of like that database is separate from that, but then like these local precincts just kind of because that means that like the federal stuff's for FBI and CODIS and like that stuff, and then these fuckers. But it's kind of how Benson said, They're like, we didn't have to make good law about it because this.
Is so fucking we never thought anyone would fucking do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can.
Actually track a bill, which it's a cute little website because I think about I'm just a bill from Schoolhouse RDE.
Yeah, yeah, and so I like just like seeing.
So the bill was intered in February twenty twenty two, which acted fast. You know, she committed the DNA was used to charge her in December twenty and twenty one, made it past the Senate, August past the Assembly, and September signed into law, so pretty quick. I don't know how other bills do it but just a cute little website. So just recently September twelfth, twenty twenty two, and PR reported that Jane Doe filed a lawsuit against the city,
which I agree. The woman's attorney, a Dante Pointer, which sounds like a pasta, said to have PR. This is government overreach of the highest order, using the most unique and personal thing we have, our genetic code, without our knowledge, to try and connect us to crime.
Agreed.
What adds even more anger to this is how there's so many untested rape kits just sitting around, not used for their intended purpose, yet they found time to use.
It against victims. Right, good point.
So Pointer, let the New York Times know that the case against the man accused of sexually assaulting Jane Doe was ultimately dismissed. But that's hard for me since he killed her mother, so maybe he was just charged with murder but the sexual assault was dismissed or what. But it's I agree it should be able to be. But because it's a Jane Doe, we can't really find information. I don't know who this man is, I don't know who her mother is.
I'm sure he went to jail for the murder and that like maybe there just wasn't evidence besides her word versus his and the sexual assault.
I don't know.
Yeah, and so it sounds like it was the sister too like that.
I don't know.
But it's also the New York Times, So I believe the papers, you know, America's paper, but I just I don't know the paper of record. That's what that's the saying. My friend Fracks, she always goes the paper because when I when I got to be in the Times, she goes the Paper of Record. Yeah, like really really cute. But I for some reason said America's paper instead. But
I meant that also. Since Boudin and Quotes was testing the public's willingness to support progressive district attorneys amid headlines for rising crime and was progressive, he was put under a recall, like kar said earlier, and is no longer the DA for San Francisco. He lost to Brooke Jenkins
in June of this past year twenty twenty two. Since Brooke has taken over, arrests have gone up twenty percent, even though crime rates have not changed significantly, but about one hundred more arrests a month are being brought in and yeah, and at the end of the day, no matter what laws are set up, we have cops and labs self governing themselves and doing whatever they please with the info they have.
And it's kind of fucked up. And that's it.
I hate that he was recalled because I really feel like he wasn't given like a chance really, like I think he was only nominated a few years ago, and like he was not given a chance to San Francisco does have a crime problem, but like, look at how more arrest is not a deterrent to crime.
You know.
And also they were saying, how like there's been a decrease in major vite like giant crimes, but crimes of petty petty like crimes have gone up part like car robberies and stealing. And it's like that's a societal problem because people don't have money and food, you know what I mean.
Dmic like in a pandemic that like hurt a lot of people economically as well.
Like instead of that, why don't we like I don't know, make eggs not you know, eight dollars, Like there are things that lead to the crimes that are happening that do not help arrest because then.
You have to owe for your jail time and you have to get lawyer.
Like yeah, but in terms of like giant crimes, they did go down right major co Well, I'm glad that this got sorted out because of all places, California would never let that go.
But I wonder if, like in.
Not to be stereotypical, but I wonder if in Red States, where they have kind of a law where they always talk about law and order and like, you know, sorry that you're a victim, but you committed a crime, like the vibe that this DA has and like that even some of the detective I mean even Careesi was like, well she did do it, you know, Like that vibe is definitely going to be around in other states, And I wonder if they're going to make these laws too.
Yes, but the reason there is law and order is you have to investigate, you have you have to prove it.
If someone did something, it's up to you.
To like build a case, you know what I mean, Like, right, well, thank god we have an incredible guest, you know what I mean. But this is actually I mean this, this is actually one of the few cases I guess we cover that like a law was passed quickly and this is not allowed anymore.
And like the government working quickly and efficiently, which is.
Because if it wasn't for this bodine guy who knows, yeah, like, she could have just gone to jail and none of this would have been uncovered. So it is pretty incredible that he did that. Yeah, little or little mister Olivia Benson.
Yeah, well, let's get right over to our guests because we had such a fun time talking to this person. Okay, guys, our guest today is a true renaissance woman. She has been in the Broadway musicals Saturday Night, Fever, Pretty Woman, and Legally Blonde, the last of which she was nominated for a Tony. She also frequently performs with her husband, actor, singer and former guest of the Pod Andy Carl aka Baby Dodds.
We could call her missus Baby Dodds.
And you know her as the nefarious detective Nadia Zabo from today's episode. Guys, please enjoy our convo with the fabulous or Fe.
We rewatched your episode yesterday together in a hotel room in Orlando, and it's you're so good. It is such a good episode.
Thank you.
Even though we saw it a few times already.
It was just truly riveting your It's you and Marishka in that office yelling at each other.
It was good stuff.
Chemistry.
Yeah, I feel I feel like not a good SVU expert right now. But what was the role you played in your first SVU when you were in season twenty one?
I felt I think that was like a cameo. Oh yeah, it was like a smaller thing. It was very small. It was top like the first scene before everything starts, and I played Tony in She Paints for Vengeance. I was the club owner at the Shady Club where Shenanigans were happening.
Okay, yeah, okay, and then we get you back as I mean, I hope this character.
I hope she recurs. I would love to see my face off.
I don't quite know what they're waiting for, but.
Yeah, another Benson and her like butting heads.
We need it.
I just think they should be such a lesson.
Yeah, and you guys like stole the idea in the end and got all the credit, and it just yeah, I would love to get more action. But does your character think she's doing the right thing or does she know it's bad?
But she doesn't care. Did you think about that?
I think that people like Nadia always think they're sanctimoniously doing the right thing. That's my it. So I don't think she thinks she's doing anything wrong. And I think that as far as that big showdown scene, you could tell by what she was saying, it's like, no matter what you say about me, it's not worse than anything
you did, you know what I mean? So I think she justifies her existence or her actions saying oh, really, well how about this, or then you get a twist with her where she's like, tell that to the mother of a twenty five year old who was killed during a car japp right. She just absolutely has a rationale and a justification for all the shenanigans.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, So how take us back to the beginning? How this part even came about? You had done this smaller part in season twenty one. Yes, I know your husband has been a had a recurring arc in a totally different season. Yes, and you're friends with Marishka. So how do you get to the Dick Wolf universe?
You know, honestly, it was because I just wouldn't stop bugging Marishka and Warren light honestly, and I hang out with war I've spent a lot of time with Warren, and I've spent a lot of time with Marishka. Very lucky that you know, Marishka is someone who's a part of our lives, and she's always like, we got to
get you on, we got to get you on. So it was really her idea, and it was about doing it the right way and the right time, because I was always like when Andy was on, and I didn't know them all that well at that point in time. I knew Warren, but I didn't know Marishka as well. I was like, where can I be on? I could
be like this and I can you know. I just was always like coming up with these ridiculous ideas, and you know, finally I think I think my turn came up, honestly, you know, and it was it was luck, but it was something that was in the mix for quite some time, and Marishka was very, very motivated to have me on with her. She very specifically didn't want me to just be, you know, some character that didn't get to play with her and I and when we did, she paints for
Vengeance and she was the director of that episode. So when we were together, she's like, I need you back on, I need you with me, I need you in scenes with me. So this was something that was marinating for quite some time. Honestly, this was not like a random hey, let's get hurt. It was very orchestrated. It just took some time and then we got felled by the pandemic, so you know, but it was in It was in
the works for quite some time. It just happened to mesh and coolate at that moment, and I couldn't be happier.
Yeah, so like after that scene in the office, did you guys like high five after?
Oh god, yeah, she's just Marishka. So there was a moment in the scene where we're at my desk when Ma Marishka Olivia comes to visit me, and she's like, you know, kind of being cool, and I'm like, you know, I did a slow turn. I like she said something and I just like did this. And after the scene, Marishka's like, you really scared the shit out of me with that look, because you know I was doing I was playing it a little bit more mild and kind of warm and fuzzy for lack of a better way,
and she's like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Let me have it. I was like, I don't, you know, I'm new here. I can't you know. She's like, do it. You give it to me, scare me, give it to me. And Marishka basically directed my entire performance out of me, so you know, yeah, but she was like she literally I could see it too. Her eyebrow went up and she was like oh because she was yeah, she was really And I just did this very slow, which she had said, try this, and I was like, yeah, sure.
She's like, yes, I'm sure. And I just did this like slow pan to her and she was like that's it. Yeah, and she was like look at me. I got chills.
It was.
It was. She's a really In addition to being all that Marishka Hargatea is, she's also a really phenomenal director and she knows exactly what she wants it to look like and how the scene should go and voila.
Yeah, when did you decide to go by one name become a mono named performer?
I've been a mono named performer since I was six years old, and I literally cannot stand that people think it's a thing that I got from someone else. I'm like, let me ask all of you, find me three more or Fays on the planet. Yeah, tell me about their last names and if they're using them. And it was, and I've said this before, but I'll say it to you.
When I was in grade school and they would do roll call, they were already so put upon by the fact that they had to yell out my name during roll call that the last name went away a long time ago.
I've bet so.
The Orfe was always just or Fae. But when I got a record deal back in the nineties and I had to join the union, you know, you had to join after when you were a recording artist, cause Sagon After were not one at that point in time. And I had been in SAG already as just or Fe because you could pick any name. And I was like, well, mine's real. That's how it all happened. So it's actually just legally my name.
So wow, it's.
Not what kind of name is that my mother made it up based on Black Orpheus the opera? Oh wow, So it's no, there's no other I mean, people are always giving me my origin stories and I'm like, yes, it is that, but it's this, you know what I mean, and it's not. You know, occasionally I'll get you know, other people who are named this name spelled the same. They refuse to admit that it's after me, but it
is because my mother made up the spelling. But then come to find out, there was a recording artist like a thousand years ago who put out a record with my name, like I mean, decades and decades ago, which is why there are issues with my birthday because people think I was born the year my record came out while I was in the womb. Oh, hence why I'm one hundred and seventy On certain places on the internet.
Literally there is a recording artist who put out a record called Orfe spelled exactly like mine.
Oh wow, And.
I'm like, oh, okay, so I was born this year, which wasn't also my birthday, it's not, and I put out a record in the womb. I am prolific, beyond I'm magically prolific.
So amazing. Did you grow up in an artsy theater home?
Not even remotely. No, No, I will say my adults were very into phenomenal music, from R and B to you name it. There was good music my house, so the music taste was stellar and that definitely, you know, permeated to my my fibers.
Yeah and you, But you grew up in New York and I read on your Wikipedia that you went to LaGuardia.
I did.
My dad went there too, did did he but a lot, but he's much older than you, so he went when it was actually depends on who.
Put a record in the womb, so but he's about that old.
But but yeah, like so you.
Didn't grow up in an artsy house, but you had like an artsy upbringing, right because you were going to like art schools.
Yes, yes, and I was, but I was very self motivated. I did not have a mamager. Nobody in my family was in the arts, artistic people, photographers. One of my mother's first jobs was retouching headshots with the old school way with an eraser and a lead pencil, you know what I mean. So they were very artistic visually. I, on the other hand, can't draw a stick figure. If you if you literally, if the world's fate depended on my artistic abilities, it'd be curtains armageddon. Yeah.
So wait, and didn't you and Andy do a big show in so at Sony Hall.
Recently we did October fourteenth. It was the best, It was the best. It's We have a concert series that we've been doing for quite some time, many years. Again, there was a little bit of a thwarting during the pandemic, but we have a series called legally Bound. You know, play on words from legally Blonde. Oh my god, we're so brilliant and we've been doing concerts everywhere all over the place. We haven't gone overseas with it yet. We're hoping that happens at some point in the near and
distant future. But yeah, we've toured the show. We started at Lincoln Center and then we just went everywhere. We've done it in La Miami, San Francisco, and lots of stuff in the Tri State area and you know, the urbs and all of that. So, yeah, we have a concert series called legally Bound.
That's awesome.
Yeah, we talked to Andy a little bit about you guys working together, because we love to ask couples that are both in the business, like do you guys like to work on auditions together? Do you like to like be in the same things together?
And stuff?
We love being in the same things together because for some twisted fate thing, we have unusual chemistry for a married couple, because you know how that can go. Yeah, it's sometimes oil and water. We just happen to the fates were kind to us. So we love working together. We cannot stand auditioning each other, and that is something we have to do. Yeah, because I'm very much like, all right, let's go, let's do it. Let's I'm not even gonna look at the sides, let's just do it.
And Andy will be meticulous. You know, he's a virgo, I'm a Arees. It's like we're virgos. Let's go. So but in general, auditioning can be so heart wrenched, lee wretched that neither one of us is in a good mood to do it anyway. Right, So it's just, you know, it's challenging all the time, but working together is phenomenal.
I lovely Gly Blonde love the musical. How was it? You know, such a famous role? Like how did you prep for it to make it your own? And then like no, it was this like classic thing, like the process for that.
You know, it's so weird because it was such a famous movie. And then the musical has had its like do so much after the fact, do you know what I mean? Like, yes, we got tony nominations, and we were very popular when we were on Broadway, But I mean, this is a show that should have run forever and ever and ever. And it's like, somebody just put a comment on the post I did today with Andy as
Emmett that apparently nobody knew Andy covered Emmitt. So somebody said, you know, if this show came out when there was TikTok and when there were social media, you guys would still be run. And this poster, this comment was absolutely true. If it had come out during social media, I think I think Facebook and Twitter were just starting to exist,
so there was nothing but word of mouth. There was nothing but you know, so when people were coming to the theater, they were actually motivated to come and see the show, as opposed to like it trending somewhere, you know what I mean. But it has become such an unbelievable phenomenon at this point that it's it's interesting that we're all much more popular because of it now than we were then. As far as like listen, first of all,
you can't copy Jennifer Coolidge. Ye, she's literally inimitable. Okay, she's an icon, she is everything that she is. So for me to kind of go and start to talk like this and you know, kind of give that no, you know, it would have been a disaster from the top, you know what I mean. And Jerry Mitchell, our director, is he and I are very very very close friends, and he knows how I work. I know how he works.
This was our first time doing a big musical together, but we knew each other and he knew Andy, and I was just like, you know, let me kind of infuse what it is that I do as a performer, who I am as a performer, and then take the best aspects of movie Paulette, slash Jennifer Coolidge Paulette and do some kind of a blend that's going to make
sense to people. And you know, I had the the the additional gift of being able to sing, so no one could say, well, like, she doesn't sing like Jennifer Cooley, you know what I mean, So like I got to have that as my own thing, so no one could compare that. But if they were able to compare in any other way than kind of costumes or visual or who Paultte was to l it would not have worked out.
Well.
I I just was lucky enough Jerry allowed me to kind of give it my my spin.
You know what was I going to ask you? Oh, are you what are you working on right now?
What am I working on right now? We have you know, we optioned I don't know if Andy told you, we optioned a book called The Dancer. So we're kind of trying to fit the pieces of where it's gonna go, who's gonna be in it, and you know, things like that. Michael yuriy is our lead, you know, so we're all
kind of you know, involved in that. There are a lot of concerts coming up after the new year, so we're kind of working on that and auditioning and waiting for you know, the next good gig and maybe waiting for res for you to call me back.
Because Nadia they got I mean they left the door open because it's like they didn't suspend that character. She got completely walked away like she was the savior of Noah the Queen's homicide.
What if you guys have to work together like major keys, Yeah, that would be fun, Like they should do that, but you have to work together.
I would do it doesn't matter like I don't care.
Yeah, it was.
It was just about the not even just about It was the best television experience I haven't. I don't have a zillion mile resume for TV. I have had, you know, good stuff episodic wise, but that was hands down my favorite professional experience I've had in TV. Hands down. She knows it, they all know it. I make no bones about when I'm happy. It's like, you know, i'd be crazy not to me, you know what I mean?
Yeah, totally classic questions is what are your favorite craft service snacks and go tos?
Oh?
I love candy, I'm I'm really it's it's it's a problem. So yeah, I love like gummy bears and gummy worms and starbursts and things like that.
Yeah, yeah, totally, it's a thing.
That's our problem. Was reading that you're a tattoo girl. You have a lot of hidden tats. They're all that's smart. Yeah. I feel I have a lot of tattoos, and I feel like any time I do get to be on a set, everyone is panicking. Well because you have to really stress this people out.
But it shouldn't stress the makeup. So good. I mean I had to cover my ankle tattoos twenty some odd years ago when the makeup wasn't as good for Saturday night Fever because they're the you know, when you're wearing a dress and heels, Yeah, you can see them. And I mean Annette could have had tattoos, but they were like now yeah, so.
Are you?
Are you going to get more?
You know, I love them so much. I just don't know where else to put them, where they're properly hidden, yeah.
And.
Where they'll look good in a in a red carpet situation, you know what I mean. Like, and there are certain parts of my body I don't want them on, and I've never wanted them on or else I would have done it already. So I have to figure out where the next one or what the next one will be, because they all mean something to me. They're not random, so that when I'm you know, sixty seventy eighty years old, I'm going to look and be like what was I thinking?
You know, they all mean yeah, but you can switch them. You can always get you know, have them covered up and changed.
Oh my gosh.
So you mostly just worked with Marishka when you were at SVU, Right, you didn't really did you really have scenes with any of the other cast members.
I did in the episode. One of the first two scenes that Marishka's not in were with the other guest.
Oh, that's right, the other guest stars. I guess.
I was just kind of like, did you have any interactions with like Iced Tea.
Or like, you knowinety bay stories.
I did with the first episode, the Tangled Strands of Just No Revenge.
Yeah, Oh my god.
I'm just I'm I've been on so many I just can't keep the string. I was only with Iced Tea and Jamie for my uh scene with the paints for Vengeance. Yeah, moment when Marishka was directing. So I was just in a room with the two of them and the one actress who came in to like be like yeah, sure, you know, she got really upset and she was like, yeah, this place is disgusting basically, So it was just us and Iced Tea is the coolest human being alive, yeah, hands down, And.
We just hear so many good things about him and Mariushka. It's like no one has any shit to talk about them. Everybody just loves them so much.
Because it's it's real, like, yeah, you know, Iced Tea is just I don't know if Andy's told you, but Ice is Andy's idol, Like he just adores him. And Iced Tea and Coco came to Pretty Woman and Ice was like smiling from ear to ear. I was like, dude, you're freaking smile. Look at you. He's like, yo, I had a good time. Like he's just the coolest, coolest, coolest guy on the planet. I'm nice and generous and like, you know, people go up to him. He's not all. You know, I'm a star, I'm ic t. Mrshka is
the same way. She doesn't act like, you know, a huge, mega mega mega mega star.
Yeah, no diva behavior.
Yeah, what are the difference between outside of like tapes, but like theater auditions and like TV movie auditions.
Uh, theater auditions are notoriously endless. I was just having this conversation with somebody a moment ago. I auditioned for Paultte and Legally Blonde for.
Six weeks, Oh my god. For six weeks.
From the first time I walked in till the day they told me I finally got the role was a six week period. TV It's quick. Yeah, audition, you get it or you don't, and they're usually like shooting the next day. So I think that's much kinder. Yeah, I really do.
Wait, you waited six weeks or you had to do stuff for that I had to do.
I had to go back for callback after callback for six weeks.
Yeah.
It was not every day for six weeks, but from the time I first went in till the time that I got the role, it was a six week process. Damn, I'm traumatized.
I feel like they showed that in Smash a little bit.
Oh really, Okay, Yeah it's true.
You know, I actually remember now when you were entangled you you have a lot. I think that having a mono name like you, it pays off because I remember the first time I googled you was from when you were entangled Strands of Sorry, she paints for vengeance.
She paints for venge because I pay for Tangled Strands of justice because I.
Was like, who's or fe like, why does this person have one name? And I just was like, who is that? I googled you and found out about you being on Broadway and stuff, and you found.
Out it was one hundred and ten year old site.
Yeah, I was like, ooh, she's great for one hundred and ten. And then when Jimmy told me he knew you, I was like, I know who she is because I googled.
Her and I just saw her on this new episode. Oh my god.
So it's all like, you know that name intrigues people, well, thank.
You, or revolts them. It's only one or the other. There's nothing in between.
Well yeah, so is there anything you want our viewers to our listeners sorry, to like check out, Like the Legally Bound series.
I think I think that there's a lot of music that we have out that they should all check out. We've got legally Bound Live at fifty four below the CD it exists. There's the Christmas single Baby Please Come Home, the old Darlene Love Classic. I mean, it's all available on Spotify. But hey, if you want to purchase like an autograph copy, you can go to pot Way Records and there's you know, the the the Archaic CD but it has our you know, autographs on them. So yeah,
fifty four. You know, legally Bound Live at fifty four. All of my older music is on Spotify now, even like the out of print first CD I made when I was a kid, or in more that's available now and what do you want for Me?
Uh? With the single what do you Want from Me?
Yes, the or FA CD, the or f A CD I made when I was in Legally Blonde. I'm hoping some music person finds one of my older songs and makes it a big freaking hit. Now that's really the dream.
That's a techno remix for TikTok.
Yeah, yeah, seriously, Like you know, Kate Bush, two words, that's it.
This is cool. I hope we see you in so many things.
Yeah, thank you. From your Mouth to God's Ears.
Oh a great episode. Yeah, such a good episode. She was so fun. Just a great episode.
And the end I think it's one of those moments, not a haunting SV moment, but the line of like, if you want to get things done, it doesn't matter who takes credit for it, Like, yeah, you got to allow other people to take credit for stuff if you want to get things done. And I just think that's something important to remember.
Like, and I think women have been doing that for century.
Yeah, you know, like that one hits. But if you're a woman, you're like, yeah, I guess I fully have like, let my ideas like just just to make it happen.
Let some man take a credit for it, you know. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I don't know. I can't think of a moment.
I yeah, I think I want attention for stuff, and I'm glad to remember that that doesn't matter as long as, yeah, things get fun.
But this episode, you know, while the cops are doing whatever they can to get convictions, I can't believe this happened in real life.
I'm glad it got spotted.
I'm glad that it's like, I can't believe that we have to like make laws against stuff that just seem so morally reprehensible, but you have to like put it in writing so that nobody tries to do it.
But I'm glad it's been done.
But also, of course there's no law written about it, because.
Men do the law. They don't even care.
I mean, yeah, marital rape what wasn't illegal until the nineties I think or eighties. So yeah, it's so, yeah, of course there's not laws to protect this. They don't even test the rape kits.
Yeah, by the backlog.
These motherfuckers, so they don't get how hard So Idaho, Yes, I sent you a thing about I guess one of the survivors.
Just so people know what we're talking about. We're talking about this murder. This this murder that we've talked about on the podcast before that I'm were I think we're all very invested in finding out the truth about these four college students that were murdered seemingly at random. They had no suspects for a really long time. Over the winter break, a suspect emerged. I posted about him on our Instagram. He looks like fucking William Lewis. And then Lisa go on with what you were gonna say. So
they arrested a god. But there's one survivor who saw this is this is all from Instagram, So I don't really know if what's true what's not. Yeah, but one survivor saw the attack or leave or come in like she knew, but then did not call the authorities for like nine more hours or something like fell asleep.
Yeah, And a lot of.
People in the comments are like, fuck this bitch, why didn't she do it?
This is shady. She must have something to do with it.
But I always think about one of our early episodes, Colleen stan and the prosecutor. They're saying stop expecting people to do normal things in abnormal situations. So I feel for this girl, like if she was just like so scared or in shock, or you know, like little kids in SVU sit in the closet and don't call for help like it happens.
So I don't know, but I understand the comments. I don't know.
It was just another like layer where I'm like, I hope this wasn't a hit.
I hope this wasn't a little duo situation him.
I mean, we've had a few people write to us that say that, like they live near where this guy lives in Pennsylvania, but it's not very he was going to school on the Washington state border or something like very close to the border of Idaho.
I guess. So I don't know.
I can't imagine like what you know, like what's worse to find out? I guess it doesn't matter if like this is a loved one of yours, but like if it's random, or if it was cahoots, or if like yeah, or if the stories are getting commingled. And we covered a case like this, the Tulsa massacre, where it was just like a bunch of students being murdered in one home and the same thing. The judge did the same thing for this case where it's like on lock no
one can talk to the media at all. And I wonder what about these types of crimes that make that happen.
Yes, I want to know that too, Like what is it where you think that the publics help. I guess they figure that since there wasn't a suspect for so long, whatever the public could offer in terms of help has been done, you know, like and now this man's identity is out there. If you know something about him, you
know who to contact. Like there's really not a lot of like tips or help we can't expect from the public anymore because it happened so long ago and they only just But there were two roommates that survived.
We say survived.
When we say survived, I think they were just upstairs sleeping, is what I originally read. Like they just didn't get attacked. I don't know if this guy planned to get all
of them. Didn't know that there were six of them, but like he killed four of them, two of them apparently, like like you were just saying, woke up in the morning, didn't call cops for a long time and we're only just finding out now that maybe that One of them says she saw the guy like leaving the morning of the attack or something, but he was in a mask that covered his nose in his mouth, but she said she described his bushy eyebrows or something, so like, I don't know if maybe she could I d him.
I don't know.
And she said she heard crying and a male voice say it's okay, I'm going to help. It's like, so, I don't know. This case is so fucking weird. But what's the weirdest is that he studies criminology and criminal justice. Yeah, but what do I say, Yeah, sociology is good, criminal justices those are.
The badt.
It is what it is. I don't make up the rules.
No, I didn't. I totally made that up.
But I think we got to be like fingerprinting these criminology students.
I just feel like sociology people become like public defenders, and then criminal justice people become parole officers. Like that's my breakdown of what I believe. No, but this is just an amazing episode. I think it's I love their fighting in the office, I love the passion, I love the wild story but grounded.
I don't know. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I would like to see or Face character back.
I would love to see Naughtia Zabo back because her and Benson, I think because they know each other personally, like her and Marishka, like they just had a really good bitch chemistry and I like that.
I also want to see Andy Carl and Orfe together like we saw them separate. We know that they're together, but I want to like go dancing with them or something.
Didn't.
I want to see what's up because I wonder if she talks a lot and he's chill, or if they're like both chatty kathy, like, I just want to know their dynamic.
I love that. I'm always curious about that too, for sure.
But okay, let you know another thing I'd like to say about Orphe is, you know these singers, they can't party, they can't treat, They twenty the instruments.
Yeah, you know, like you cannot.
Maybe hopefully she's eating some edibles at night, but it is tough. Yeah, yeah, it couldn't be me. I just uh, you know, well that's what Bridget ever it said. Bridget Everett was like a classically trained singer, and then when she've realized the lifestyle, she was just like.
No, no, I'm not doing I'm.
Gonna do Joe's pop where I get wasted and sing at the same Yeah, cabaret.
I'm gonna do cabaret. Like, yeah, there's a comic who I really don't like. But she has said this too, where she's like, I was gonna be like an actole. And then when she started going on auditions, she was like, ugh, like these people are so like doing like you know, like yeah, She's like and she walked out. She's like, I don't want to do this. And that's girl. Gargoyle guy, gargoyle girl, garth?
Did you ever do that one?
Now?
But I like that.
I think if I have a home, I would buy some gargoyles. I think it's funny.
I like it.
It reminds you of beating the beast. Oh yeah, well if they come alive, that's for sure. I'm a girl.
What can I say? I'm a gar girl, I'm a gargoyle girl. It's hard to say. Okay, let's move on.
Let's get into our what would Sister peg do for
this episode? You know, what would Sister peg Do is our uh segment where we direct you guys to a book, an organization, an article, something that will give you more info and what we talked about today, and we wanted to point you this week to the organization Black Women Revolt, and that is an organization that's dedicated to increasing awareness about the impact of intergenerational violence in the black community and removing barriers for black women who've experienced domestic abuse
to receive access to culturally sensitive resources. So if you know anyone that is that could use this kind of service, please send them to Black Women Revolt dot org or if you just want to check out their resources and donate, go ahead to that website, black Women Revolt dot org. And that will as always be on our Instagram stories the day of the episode release and will be saved forever in our WWSPD highlight.
Amazing.
Thank you for that, and we will continue on next next year, next episode Abomination season five, episode eight Hulu Peacock, get on it, and thank you so much for listening, rate and review, and we'll see you next day.
Bye bye.
That's messed up as an exactly right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.
At Glitter Cheese.
As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien.
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media dat The dun