Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on.
These are our stories, done done Yay.
Another episode of That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
My name is Lisa, Hello, and I'm Kara, and we cover SVU episodes. We recap them, we talk about the true crime they're based on, and then we usually interview a fabulous guest from the episode, which we will be getting in the works very soon. Now that the strike is over, we'll be getting guests back into the rotation and can't wait until then. We chat.
Yeah, I'm really excited.
I guess we should start talking about horror movies and Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Is is that going to be over and over and over again? No, I actually have something to say. My tattoo is healing worse than any tattoo I've ever got gotten in my life. I am pissed. It still hurts five days after. It shouldn't be hurting like this. It is the thickest, scabbing and dry. It's just like it's like nothing else I've ever experienced
in my gosh. I email the tattoo shop obviously it's too early for them, and then I messaged our friend Melissa because she's tatted, and she sent it to her tattoo artist.
But like, yeah, that's I guess. My question is, like, is that an indication of the tattoo artist when that kind of thing happens.
I think he overworked the skin. I do.
I think by the end every time he rubbed, it's a small tattoo, and I did think it took a little longer than it bled more than I usually do. I should have now, looking back, I should have taken another skin. I should have let it breathe a little bit. Like I don't know, but I've had those issues with other tattoos, Like yeah, I just have probably over twenty at this point, and it's nothing has ever looked this thick.
I mean, sorry to be gross to.
Everyone, just starting off your day with some thick scabbing well because it hurts.
And but the tattooartist who got back to me was like, it's just really angry. You know, I don't think it's infected. I've been online, you know, it's I just think it's gonna be a longer road than I would anticipate. And I think it's also because it's in a place where I'm wearing clothes and maybe hugging the pillows, like right, it might just be like that. But it's just it's tweety. So tweety looks scary. Tweety is thickly shedding in a way that is not peeling. It's supposed to like peel,
like a thin layer of peeling. This is thick scabs.
So yeah, instead of sweety tweety, it's like meaty tweety, like we're not loving this Frank and Stine like Frankenstein.
And so it's just like, I it's not what I want when I have to fly home, you know, I'm gonna be wearing sleeve. It's just like fuck. No, I think it was I think it was the art. I think he overworked it.
I do.
I think he went in too much with the color and like went a little too rough. Oh I think he was black. I don't know, but I know that I'm only gonna go to people I've gone to before, Like I don't know.
I usually also go to random people.
I know a lot of people are like you know, they research, they find real people, they save up.
It's a big event. I'm a real last minute girl.
So I've also dropped into shops all the time, all over the world, and nothing.
Like this, wow wow wow wow thing like this. I'm wishing you quick healing and well, not quick at all. It's I think it's gonna be the longest that I hope it likes not magically starts to heal better.
Yeah.
Well, in other great news, I'm really having a like I'm already in World eight for Mario, like I am. I got all the way to Bowser and lost, but like to get to the final Bowser a childhood me would have never imagined.
Never imagined.
Even when I was watching the youtubes of certain levels, I was like, I will never be able to pass this, like this is insane, and I'm like, am I at Bowser's castle?
That's amazing. I feel like I beat a game once when I was a kid, but I don't know which one it was, Like I remember facing off against Bowser at the end, but it was regular nes like probably just like Mario one.
Like but yeah, but if you went to the eighth world, because there is a Bowser at the end of Every World.
No, No, I think it was like we beat the game like my brother and I like tag team and worked on it together. Wow, I remember.
I just don't know how it would be so cloudy, like you don't remember losing your shit, like that's like a memory.
Right, Maybe I like watched him do it, but like I feel like we worked on it together and like beat beat one of the Mario game, but it it would have only been that one. That's like the only one we ever worked that hard on. Oh god, I don't know.
But I'm not starting, but I have like it saved at a certain point, so I just go to these levels and I'm practicing and going through it. I'm like keeping my arsenal of supplies till the end because that's my big you know.
I think I've already told you about this whatever.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm really happy.
Once I feel ready, I'm gonna do the full the full journey.
I can't wow at once.
Yeah, and just like really see if I can like fully beat the game in ones that like like kind of like the children did in the eighties.
Who knows the switch has really changed your life? Okay, I went and I saw Mariah Carey and concert at the Oh My God Friday, and like I guess I just like didn't realize how christmasy it was going to be. And it was so awesome. It was so magical, like you just walked in and it was like snowflakes and like jingle bells and like really really fun. We had
fine seats, not like amazing, not terrible. And she was so different than when I saw her last time, Like I think I may have talked here about how I was going, and like I saw her five or six years ago with Lionel Richie, and she did like forty minutes up top. She barely walked. She did not take a step on the stage that was unassisted. She was lifted up by beefy men or carried or like pushed across the stage in a throne. It just all felt
very kind of like lazy, you know. She was just like showing up and was like whatever, and sang a few songs, like never finished a song, and like whatever. She was strutting around. I don't know if she's on ozembic or what. She looks amazing strutting around the stage not a person helping her. I was like look at her walking on assisted. I can't believe this. And then like her kids are out there with her, they're like
part of the show. Like when I saw her five years ago, she brought them out and I was like, oh my god, this must be so crazy because she just brought them out and they just saw thousands of flashlights, like and people screaming for them. And now they're like part of the show, Like it looks like an old navy ad, like a lot of it because it's just
like her and her kids like doing fun stuff. And then at one point, like my friend Liz, who had come up to visit me and to go to the concert with me, was like, I don't know if she's going to do anything non Christmas. And then at this part of the show she goes, you know, some people were wondering if I was going to do any non Christmas songs, and I was like, yeah, Like she did a ton of hits and it was whoa. I'm sure
she did. She did Always Be My Baby, she did We Belong Together, she did Oh my God, like I think it was was there a fantasy heartbreaker? Shake it Off? I think she did Dreamless. She didn't do shake it off. I think she did Hearp Fantasy God. Now I'm like, why don't I remember the set list exactly? But it was just really fun and she sounded amazing, like she sounded like she does in recordings, which was making me
wonder if she was really singing. But my friend Liz kept going, she's a diva, of course she's really singing, and I was like, yeah, yeah, no, for sure, it's just like, you know, I love that rationale, she's a diva. Yeah, And I was just like, no, I mean, it's not weird for her to sing with a backing track. I mean she sounds just like the recordings, and that's kind of rare. You don't like see you know, performers not well, it's also not been the track record. Yeah, she has lip synced.
Matteo famously goes, he's gone to this Christmas show, I think every year for many many years, and one time he did like a red carpet like holiday thing, and I went and just saw her do like just the hit and she was not singing.
Yeah, So for people to be like, is she singing?
Is she not? It's you know, it's like the history of it too. Yeah, And I didn't really care either way. I just said, I wonder if she's singing, and my friend was like offended. She was like, of course she's singing. I was like, but it sounds so much like I went to go see Laura and Hill do, and she did like a lot of the mis education. It was the a twentieth anniversary of mis Education. She is riffing, she's doing different versions of it, like Mariah just sounded
like the studio records. But everyone was having the best time. Everybody like like light up jingle bell hats and shit, like it was just fun and like Christmassy, and like there were a bunch of like funny old gay men behind us that were having a time, and we just kept turning around and being like laughing with them. And I just had a good time. It was great. Was there confetti? No, maybe there was down by her, but no not no, not like not a big confetti thing.
No.
But you know, the projections were like snowflakes. It looked like snow and like, oh my gosh, and like she did a bunch of alpha changes. She looked gorgeous, like she had hot dancers. Like it was great. It was a very joke and she they said, Katla told me she was going to show up at eight thirty. She was on that stage at eight thirty. I was still getting a drink. I was like, show might be a
little bit late because I've been places. I was at Foxwood's Casino one time, gambling, just talking to these old ladies. They go, we're here to see Mariah, but it's been two hours and she's not on the stage yet, and they were just playing slots because like, she's notoriously late, but she's she's got it together for this tour and she's really doing it and she looks great, she sounds great, and she's on time. And that's my review. Yeah, the
Queen of Christmas. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice. I didn't do much.
I did.
I did watch the movie Casino, which I never seen. Okay, so I famously saw it in the movie theater with my parents on a Friday night in a packed theater, and it watching it now, I can't imagine what the people around.
My parents were thinking. Well, how old were you a child?
Hold on, let me see when this came out nineteen ninety five. I was born in eighty seven, so I was eight years old.
Oh my god.
I was eight years old in the Casino Theater. I mean I I do like a joke about this, and like I was like, how funny I saw Casino as a kid, and I'm like, this fucks me up for sure.
There's no way this did not fuck me up.
There is so much blood violence, cutting off fingers, stabbings, bearing people alive after beating them to like as they're like you see them breathing as sand is covering their body, like.
Bodies was the was were any memories like flooding back from like, oh yeah, I remember watching this when I was eight, Like, well, I do a bit about this, and I do reference like you know, the guy that gets buried alive, and so I had a distant memory of that and like people coming out of trunks, you know what I mean, Like I do remember like trunks opening up.
I remember Sharon Stone, She's like a horrific drug addict. Like it like so much death, destruction, mobs.
It was.
It's really bloody, it's really wild.
Oh my god.
But I also famously did take my niece and nephe used to see Keanu in the movie Theater, which did have.
But the tone of that is a lot more goofy, like even though there's some violence, it's like goofy, like Casino is like do people do this? Do people bury each other alive? Like I don't know, I could see that being really really I'm trying to think, like my parents were really so strict, like we didn't go out to movies that much as a family because you know,
like taking eight people to the movies is untenable. But I remember just like seeing Ghost in the theater with my mom and I was probably twelve, but still like during the pottery scene, she was like, close your eyes, but are they just doing pottery or are they Yeah, but it's like sexual and like I think she was like but she was like kidding, But you know, I can't even remember a time that I went to a movie with my parents where I was like, this was
a mistake because we barely went to go see anything. Well, we went every week, that was our thing, but they always took me to fuck up stuff, but it wasn't always so packed. Yeah, I think this was the first show because we also went to the cheap movie theater where it was a little delay movies like they'd been
out for a few months. Already and so but we wentever we and maybe it was because it was opening night at that theater, like it what every seat was filled, like I was being like I just like felt self conscious because also like they would bring cans, and I feel like opening a can in a packed theater is a sound that haunts me. Oh I used to do that, and you have to go like ichw and like try to like make a noise while you're doing it.
That's what we Well, yeah, my dad didn't give a shit, so he just opened it.
He saw nothing wrong all the like a warm gingeral burped went.
But that they weren't at all like we should get I might even ask them this on Thanksgiving, Like I just don't understand.
Their point of view.
And I wonder if it's because they had such like wild upbringings in a way, you.
Mean for bringing you or for bringing in the sodas for them.
Not leaving once. Like there's so much blood shooting people, you know, stabbings, like you would think you'd be like, let's get out of here, I just or let's talk about it later and be like this is crazy. There was just never no conversation about any of it. That's not even the craziest movie I watched. I had no supervision at all in any capacity.
Well, I think also because like your sister's older, Like maybe they just kind of like forgot how old you were most of the time. Like I don't know, maybe they just were like, she's fine. I don't know, Like I you should ask them about it at Thanksgiving. I'd love to hear the report back. I mean, I saw pulp Fiction in the theater with my friend at too young of an age, I think. But that was my own doing my parents.
Yeah, but did you But that movie is so fucking good.
But I was in eighth grade and I had like never seen somebody like get eighth grade is fine, eighth grade hire high. I was traumatized by it. Like just like the gimp and all that stuff happening. Say, I don't know if it is it gamp or simp. We've had this conversation before many a time, But that sounds like a limp, you know, like it sounds different, Like the whole thing is bring out the gimp. The GIMP's sleeping casey am, I right here, you're the cinephile.
It just sounds like a slur, you know, what I mean to me, I'm like, what the fuck did you just say to me?
Like it doesn't sound polite.
Well, the other thing is that we used to, like, you know, the like wiry like thread that you use to make bracelets at camp that's like plasticky. We called that gimp.
Well, I'm on, Oh, Urban Dictionary actually has pulp fiction in it.
One.
It is a derogatory term for someone that is disabled and has a medical problem that resents results in physical impairments.
So you not make that up? You did make that up? No?
Oh, you all looked at me like I was nuts.
I was like, it just seems like a slur. Not, no, it does, but like I also know it as this like plastic thread, which by the way, has its own Wikipedia page. I'm chatting it to you right now.
Then it's or it's an insult implying that someone's incompetent, stupid, et cetera, or to imply someone's uncool.
I don't think I would use that.
And then three a sex slave or submissive, usually male, as popularized.
By the Yew pulp fiction.
Yeah, but like then the example is, look at that gimp in the wheelchair, and it's like I don't think we got to come up with a different name for a submissive sex slave.
Yeah, it can't be so close to something that's like a slur, basically not.
Close the exact same word.
Yeah, no, I know, but like.
It just has the I mean, Quentin Tarantino doesn't. Okay, let me do simp Urban Dictionary. What does that mean?
Simp is like somebody who's like kissing your ass, Like you're simping for someone, right, Like, aren't you like if I simp for you for like.
Well, that's why I thought it meant that. Yeah, it means a man who puts the hose before the bros. So, but that's because I thought, like simp is like a cook and so that's why I thought it was in the sexual of submissives. I thought it was all a thing, But I guess it's all different. Well, let me see these necklaces you're talking about.
Yeah, like this like the it's like at summer camp we would make like if you look online, it's like you could see a gimp key chain or whatever, and it's like it's just it's wild.
It's just oh, I've never seen how is it? Okay? Pretty thread?
I guess They also call it lanyard or something like.
I grew up calling it lanyard. Lanyard.
We call it gimp. I don't know why.
Okay, Yeah, for us, it was like lanyard. Yeah. We also someone made us fusion beads, a sign that says done done. I loved fusion beads. Is that what they were called? Those were like my fucking favorite thing.
Were you iron and make them?
Yeah, into cool shapes and like a horror. Oh, I fucking love them, I really want to. I actually got my friend had surgery and so she had to stay in and I got her a big per Oh it's pearler bead too, Like got.
That, oh pearler bead.
Okay, I got her a bunch because I thought she could do it in the home.
Well, this crafting section of the of the pod has really popped.
Off, I mean unhinged, an unhinged intro for sure. We also did go to a fun party. The food was delicious.
Yeah, I mean I got kind of the last of the vegetarian food and I was like waiting for there to be another tray of it, but I was late, So it's my own damn fault. But the food was really good. And then there was assorted donuts for dessert and which were fine.
Yeah, nothing blew me away. I've had better donuts in our neighborhood. Constantly. Sorry, sorry to slam this millionaire's house that we were at, but I'm saying yeah, but.
It was a fun. It was a fun party. Saw some old faces, some new faces. I met a kind of famous face. It was like everyone was kind of famous. I met this famous YouTuber who I was like, oh, I worked on the Streamy Awards when you were the host and I wrote that song you had to sing and she was like, oh my god, totally like it was so crazy. I was like I can't believe. I'm like I never met her like on that, Like I
was in the room when she was rehearsing it. But they were never like here's the person who wrote the good as Hell parody song that you did. You know, like it is wild there.
It's like you could just be really famous. And I mean this isn't a new concept. It's just very niche. It's more niche now the monoculture is dead.
Yeah. Yeah, Well there were people that were like tagged and photos the next day that I had, like seen at the party and was like, who is that? And then you click and it's like they have half a million followers because they're huge on TikTok or something. I just don't know who everybody is. Well, this is the thing because I feel like Taylor is so monoculture. But I'll be like, who cares about it? At my stand up shows and people do not clap. There's like six
people will clap or four people. No. I was telling my friend Liz about some Travis and Taylor stuff because you've truly invaded my brain because I used to be and I don't care person and no, I'm like, I don't know, is it real? You know? And and she was like, oh, I didn't know any of this. I go, you didn't see the kiss? Like I was like, I couldn't believe she didn't know, like any of it. Like I was the you and the conversation and it was
really funny. But yeah, there is no monoculture anymore. Everybody is. I mean, we're an example of it. We're a podcast about a very specific television show that you can listen to, though some people don't even watch the show and listen to us. But you know, everybody's peeling off to their exact You can get something in your exact interest anywhere you turn.
Yeah, because now that I don't have Instagram, I've been like on TikTok and I'm like, who is this woman?
And why am I listening to her? She needs to get away from me. Actually, wait, I have one more thing before we start. We are on tour, Babies. We have a few more shows left in December, and we really want to see you guys there. We're going to be in Sacramento on December thirteenth. We're going to be in New York City at City Winery on the sixteenth, and a second show. Does still have tickets available to the nine o'clock show. Let's pack that show out so that it's just as fun as the sold out six
pm show, guys. And then Philly, we'll see your little butts on the seventeenth. And then in the new year, we're kicking off in Seattle at the Wet City Comedy Festival on January seventh. Lisa will be there on the sixth. I think you can buy passes for the whole festival, but we also have tickets to just our show on the website. Which is that's messed up live dot com. Please go there to check all locations and get tickets,
and yes, don't just google our tickets. Some people write us and they go, is this how much the tickets are? And they show me a screenshot of their cart that has like one hundred dollars tickets in it. Those are scam sites. Don't get scammed. Go to that's messed up live dot com and that's where we have all the legit links to our shows.
We've been talking too long and we must start. So get excited, get into episode, to.
Start a gimp bracelet, and get ready for another great episode of podcasting. Okay, I am so excited to do today's episode. It's surveillance. It's season three, episode eighteen, and Lisa kept going, you know, it's the one with Emily Deschanel, and I'm like, yeah, she's a cello player. But this one had truly left my mind, Like little bits and bobs of it were like I've seen this, I've seen this, but this is not a one that I've seen a
ton of times. And so I got the thrill of like it feeling like a new episode to me.
You know, that is very thrilling, but also through this I did some digging and the dis Chanel's are nepos.
Oh yeah, I'm talking about it. Oh I didn't know. Oh I knew they were. Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah they didn't.
I also thought that, like Zoe was so much more famous and successful, but Emily got Bones in two thousand and five, Like they've both really been in this. I mean Zoe is more like famous, but they're both very successful.
Yeah, well, I'll just get into it now. This episode stars Emily des Chanell. She's the sister of Zoe Deschanell. She's the lead actor from Bones, which I love to say, like that shout out to Greg Johnson who does a great joke about how the voiceover for that show was always like next up on Bones. They are classic nepo. I kind of always think when they're siblings that get famous, they're nepos. Like what are the chances of both of you being so successful? I mean, I don't know. We
talked to Kimberly Williams and Ashley Williams. They both got into it kind of like not being nepos, but like.
Wait, what Mari, the Blondes, the Fannings are they nepos.
Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question. The Fannings feel like they got to come from something. I don't know. Maybe that's just me like profiling white blonde people.
But oh no, the.
Elle Fannings considered a NEPO because her sister is Dakota, but oh okay, Dakota.
Busted in and then Elle followed. I don't know, maybe that's just like I just feel like Rooney and Kate Mara like all these different the I feel like, oh, the the Nyllen Halls, like est of us is, you know, like all kinds of people. Anyway, So their dad, if you want to know why their nepos, their mom was an actor and their dad is a cinematographer and like like a long dp cinematic yeah career, like yeah in there really killing it. Yeah yeah yeah.
I feel like that's one of the jobs where if you're not in the industry, you might not even understand or know like how vital it is.
Because I don't think I knew.
Oh, I mean, I think cinematographers are like the most important person kind of which I've only realized from like being like a little closer to the biz.
Oh, see.
I never thought it when I first heard of what it's because I remember my friend dated someone in high school who I hated, who wanted to be a cinematographer. I'm like, that's not even a real job. The director does it. I'm like, you're an idiot. He's like, you're an idiot, and I was the idiot.
And then you see cinematographers and dps in action, and it's like they're so important.
It's like mass important.
They make the movies look beautiful and set up the shop in a way that I thought the director got all the credit for, you know, yeah.
But it is the collaboration. I think all the good stuff is like when dps and cinematographers and directors have worked together before and like have a rapport, Like that's all the good shit you see. But you're right, like I can't name other cinematographers, like even though there's they're so important.
Well, I worked with one on King of Staten Island. That is so important and he made such an impact on me. Could not remember his name for the life of me. He has an oscar he did there will be blood. I'm like the most important man my club. So even but on survival the woman who is the DP. Like, what I was impressed with was the.
Attention to detail, Like there would be one thing of tinsel hanging from the ceiling and she's like, rip off that one piece of tinsel.
It's at fucking my shot and it'd be like, what the fuck, Like I don't know it was, It's just impressive. But yeah, they're nepos and I just learned that today humiliating.
We should have known, we shouldn't.
Yeah, No, I feel like I always knew that they were netpos. And Zoe is obviously a singer, actor, whatever, and as mayor is now married to one of the property brothers. Emily is married to an actor from It's Always Sonny in Philadelphia named David Hornsby, so their children will continue to be neppos. And she seems like she has a more chill vibe than Zoe, But I mean,
what the fuck do I know? She also went to all the two of the very fancy private schools that are here in LA so you know, they were probably always knew they were going to be in this biz.
So that's omen Salter always says. She goes, well, my children are going to be nepos. So I have to with that.
Yeah, yeah, I guess my kids are comedy nepos. I don't know if that's going to do anything for them. But we open on this episode with Emily d Chanelle making out with a man and older movies and TV from like a little I feel like we're moving away from like loud, sloppy kissing noises in movies and television because my miss Offonio really hates that. But when you watch old stuff and you see people making out in
old movies, always such loud slapping noises. But anyway, she's like, you want to come up, and he's like, I've got an early morning and after last night, I bet ar rest.
So I don't know.
Maybe they had a fuck vest last night. Who knows. He kisses her hand, but her hair is covering it, so it does look like he's just kissing a chunk of her hair. And she's entering the apartment now, and she, like so many of us, just leaves the door open right behind her for a second while she drops her keys, and a man rushes in from behind her and attacks her, hits her, knocks her out, then pulls out a knife cuts a huge chunk of her hair, her recently kissed
hair off and done done. You know, not good. We cut to the crime scene. Evidence numbers are on the ground, there's blood on the carpet. We find out that this girl's name is Cassie Jermaine. She's a cellist with the Manhattan Symphony. Her boyfriend dropped her off after a date and then a purp jumped her, tore her dress. It looks like rape, but there were no witnesses. She's in the bedroom and according to this cop, the guide did a number on her. So Benson is stable rushed back
to the bedroom to talk to her. Cassie's telling them what's up while an EMT examines her. She's like, look, I blacked out. When I woke up, I was bleeding. He shredded my clothes, he cut my hair. He didn't say anything. And then the EMT goes, mind if I show them. He doesn't even really wait for her to answer, and just like opens up the blanket that's around her shoulders and we see that she has the word horror written in bloody caps across her chest. So we've seen
branding before on this show. This might I don't know when they first started. But this is an early season, so they do love to do this and this, uh, you know, send messages on people's skin. Well, what city were we in?
I think we were in Toronto, right where the actress from the episode Zebras who had Guilty written was in the audience.
Yes, that was awesome.
Yeah, it was very exciting.
That was so great. And in Toronto we met the sister of the guy who plays the foreman in Beef. Oh my god, yes, the guy what it was, the guy who punches Olivia and the face while she's dressed as a Russian cleaner. So was Guilty in Atlanta?
Then?
Yeah, yes, we met her in Atlanta.
Wait, since we are just mentioning to our stuff, I do want to give a shout out Craig's Cookies in Toronto, whoever gave us the Nibs Cookies changed my life, Killer Killer and Cleveland Susan Suzin l Chocolate tears, chocolate covered Friedo's one of the best things. Kara and I both ate to the point where I was about to say it out loud, and then Kara goes, I think this is the best thing I've ever eaten, And I was like, that's what I was just the.
Best, say, the chocolate covered FreeDOS were. I was like, these are the best thing I've like ever put in my mouth, just salty, sweet, crunchy all together. And many people have written me telling me that Trader Joe's, like chocolate clusters or something like that, or crunchy clusters might give me the same satisfaction, So I will be looking out for those. I'm a Trader Joe's nut and I've never seen those, so I hope they're not like foreign
to California. No, but I've seen online, like you know, people were really into like some fried pickle hotgh dog thing and it kept selling out, Like when Trader Joe's has a new fun item, or those peppermint cones, like it seems like you have to get there at Monday at nine am or you're at a luck, So that might be one of the popular items that peppermint jojo. I love a peppermint jojo. Oh my god, those go quick.
If you find one, let me try one because I love peppermint.
Oh wait, so this it's expensive.
But at Sip and Snack, we live by a bougie bodega.
They have like McSweeney mcsworley's.
I don't know, both are wrong, but they have a pint of ice cream that's twelve dollars, which is a lot. But I bought the peppermint stick flavor ones and it's paid ice cream.
It was to die for. No, you don't do that one day ice cream is what we had on parents weekend at camp. When parents come show weekend, there's peppermint stick ice cream. That's like the only time you get it the whole summer, and it's like my favorite ice cream and you just don't find it in a lot of places. Well, it's right near our house. It's just Atnately. Twelve dollars. Well, I'm gonna treat myself one of these.
But when I dug in I understood the price. I would say that I think it's overpriced, but I was like, this is delicious. Everything at Sip and Snack is wild. It's like you go in there being like I'll just grab a candy bar and it's like cacao nibs. Like it's very but whatever. If you live in Los Angeles, go there. It's really cute. If you're looking for fancy snacks.
I've been talking about the chocolate covered Britos to everyone. I can get it face to face, and everyone always asks milk or dark chocolate, and I go, they asked us what we liked, and we said milk, and then everyone looks at me with disgust, and I'm like, fuck you.
I'm done pretending dark chocolate is good. It's bitter.
If I want something bitter, I'll fucking eat Celery, Like, get the fuck away from me.
I want milk chocolate.
No, I think it's so good and it's so Everybody acting like milk chocolate has not raised us is crazy.
It's so good sweet. I just can't do it. Then don't eat candy, you fucking bunch.
I love sweet. Look at Casey, Casey loves dark. What do you like?
Do you like dark chocolate? What are you eating?
Casey?
I am milk chocolate all the way. I don't know when dark chocolate took over the universe. It's really a pandemic and I hate it.
I'm all. I'm milk chocolate all the way. Yeah, thank you for speaking out and speaking up and being on the right side of chocolate history with us, because yeah, I.
Mean, like whatever, I understand if you are being health conscious and you're trying to limit your sweets, and you go, I just have a little dark chocolate to feed, my feed, my feed the beast at that.
Sure, sure, but be honest, you don't like.
But to act like, to act like milk chocolate is disgusting, is so crazy to me. I think it's so good. And I hope we hate our chocolate over here. We have a lot of UK listeners. I know you hate all of our chocolate over here anyway, but look, this is what we were raised on and this is what we eat, and I love it. That chocolate from that Chocolates here in Cleveland was delicious. We ate chocolate covered oreos. We were eating all the chocolate covered stuff they gave us and it was so freaking good.
Yeah, Kara, but you flew back home and left me with the box of chocolates that I then continue.
To eat the whole week.
And I was I was supposed to be a host gift, like I was gonna with my friend. I was like give it to our friends.
I was like, hey, I'm staying, do you want some candy? And then I had probably four to five chocolates today.
It was just so good. A little bit of dark chocolate. I guess on like a chocolate covered strawberry, maybe I can do, but like, I'm really just not It's I'm over like I don't like it, the dark chocolate. It's not for me. But anyway, I'm a strawberry that is, sir. In some situations, I'll do it, but it's not like I'm milk. I'm a milk girl. So anyway, Benson rides along with Cassie to the hospital while Stabler chills at the crime scene and at CSU tech is like, I
got something. There's a smash lamp on the ground that happened during the struggle, but the tech has found a tiny hidden camera inside of it dunk Dunn, who is bugging this woman's house. Stabler goes, oh, so somebody could have watched the whole attack, and the guy goes, no, they still are. The camera is live and we see the POV of the video and Stabler in the tech are in black and white like staring into the lens
and that's when we hit the credits. So top of Act one, Munch is now at the apartment with Teru aka Morales aka friend of our Podge, Old de la Fuente and he's got a fancy machine that is trying to detect if there are other cameras in the place. And he picks something up on the machine and finds that there's another camera inside the smoke detector, and that one was aimed right towards the bed, and Munch is like, I've got hangnails bigger than that thing, and I don't
like hearing that. Finn is there and he and the CSU guy just found another one. So that's a total of four. So this is a high tech peeping tom. They say, Okay, Kara, you're gonna be mad at me. I did tell you something disgusting that happened, oh in Pittsburgh, and you obviously reminded me.
You said hang nail, and I should I know it? Should I tell Casey?
You have to.
Okay, Lovely people came to my stand up show. They came to the podcast as well. I might get a message from Pittsburgh, but I think, you know, basically after the show, someone decided through crowd work it came up.
But basically he holds part.
He holds a fingernail behind his ear, and it's his backup fingernail because he likes to pick at his nails, and then when he doesn't have any nails left, he always has a nail waiting for him behind his ear, and he takes He took out the nail from behind his ear and showed me the loose fingernail and then put it. I keep gagging. I'm sorry, this is this is probably bad for anyone listening for you on the pony.
And then he put the nail back in his ear for comfort. So that's that.
Are we talking like the clipping of when you just clip a nail like the little crescent moon?
Okay? Yeah, God, do you have a comment, Casey?
No, I mean we're recording this on Halloween, and that really felt like a horror story.
Bookiest thing you're gonna hear, spookiest thing you're gonna hear this Halloween, that's for sure.
And it's fine.
We all have deep, dark secrets. But to show me your comfort nail you hide behind your ear after I'm you know, feeling good after a nice fun show was hard and I did kick him out. I go, you need to leave, I go. Our time is done here and you need to get out of here. But they were great, you know who they were with? They were with the espresso martini guy. I think, unless I'm mixing it up, but I feel like we love him, and he was.
With with our friends. I think, I think I'm not fucking it up.
So I don't know if you regret hearing that, Casey, or if anyone had to listen to my gag noises on the podcast, but I have a really sensitive gag reflux. I've poked on a dick, like things happen. Oh god, wow, it was just bud light strawberry.
He's covering his eyes. He's like, oh no, it was just bud light Strawberina. Oh no, Okay, back to the episode. I gotta go to like a chunky puke on the dick. It was just you know, Strawberita. I gotta get to a harvest festival and remember a dick being puked on with bright red fruit punch for the next couple hours. So this they're saying that the receiver for this these cameras is one hundred and fifty to three hundred yards is the range. I don't understand yards, Like people are
always like, ah, a couple hundred yards. I don't really know what that means. This is four hundred and fifty to nine hundred feet, and nine hundred feet is like a quarter of a mile, so that's like about like yards. Confuse me too much, Like a quarter of a mile is basically like the radius, the max radius, and that's like that seems kind of close, but in New York City, that's like thousands and thousands of residences and like offices,
which Munch points out. So at the hospital now, now, Cassie's wrapping up her exam when Olivia comes in, and Cassie's like, any news on the rape kit, and Benson's like, no fluids or lacerations, but Benson said, that's not unusual. And She's like, she just wants to know if she was raped or not. And Benson's like, we just don't know for sure yet. The haircutting, the clothes tearing, the writing on the body does prove it is a sexually motivated assault. Can you think of any enemies you have?
And she's like no, Benson's like his voice, smell, shoes, anything. She's like, it all happened too fast, you know, she was knocked out within seconds, so she doesn't get anything. Nobody else has keys to her apartment, she said, and Benson breaks the news about the hidden cameras, and she's obviously understandably freaked out and is like how long and like how long have they been there? She's like, we
don't know. Could this be the same guy. It could be like the person that planted the cameras could be the person that attacked you. Benson promises that we've swept the apartment, the cameras are gone, and Cassie's like, where's my boyfriend? He's outside waiting to take her home, and she's like, it'll never be home again, which you know, I always think about that on these shows when people get like a they did an episode of this with
that blonde actress I can't remember. I don't know her name, but where she is attacked in her home and what it is like to go back to.
Is it the one with Michael J. Fox's wife?
No different one but Tracy polland those are early ones, and I do love those episodes because I think those really really handle like the like trauma really well and like what like how different people respond afterwards. But this one was like a more recent episode. It's like this girl with blonde hair. I think it might be called Wonderland or something like that that's coming out of nowhere. But she gets attacked in her home and then she comes back to it, it's torn apart from the police,
it's covered in like black fingerprint powder. She has to get her locks changed. It's just like kind of the reality of like what happens. You don't just like go home and go back to bed after you leave the hospital, after you know, you file a report. So it's just you know, interesting, you.
Know what else just hit me?
I wonder if we're gonna get a bunch of dms from people being like I keep a fingernail behind my ear, how Darius?
So no, no, no, if you do that, you need to not write us. We can't hear about it. I can't hear about it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not I'm sure I do something that grosses you out and we're just not going to talk about it. So in the hospital waiting room, Stabler is questioning the boyfriend and he's immediately like, you don't think me the boyfriend, the one most statistically likely to attack my partner attacked my partner,
do you? And he's like, don't forget whoever had those cameras was spying on me too, and you know he's like the only person she had problems with was her conductor, Robert Prescott. He's been after her since she joined the symphony six months ago. She says she said him straight, but he's like, I don't buy it. This conductor guy does not take no for an answer. He goes ask Valerie Baxter. She's the violinist he was involved with last season.
Rumor is he was abusive. A month after she left, he hired Cassie, turned her into his little pet project, set her up in Valerie's old apartment. He owns the apartment, so that's a huge done done h. Reagan is talking to Benson and he can't believe this guy, like, maybe didn't sexually assault the woman since the attack was so rageful, and they're like, well, maybe he didn't have a chance. The police got there five minutes after this alarm was
triggered because she never entered in her code. The boyfriend was in a cab. He's alibied it wasn't him, And then they're talking to Cragan telling him all the details that they learned, but it's confusing.
Like how did the boyfriend leave within a few seconds and miss the person coming in, Like the trade off was so fast that person could have been waiting in the hallway for hours, Yeah, like hidden somewhere else, you know, just like waiting for her to come home, you know. So they're talking to Kragan, giving him all the details they learned about from the boyfriend about Prescott the Maestro,
and it's possible that he planted the cameras. Munch suggests, oh, maybe he got tired of being a couch potato or Finn says maybe he hired someone to spice up the show. So Benson points out, either way, the point was to humiliate her, cutting her hair, writing a horror on her body.
Like, So they want to talk to Prescott, obviously, but his secretary said he's upstate looking at investment properties. And the lab tracked the cameras to a place called Quark International, which is a spy shop, and Live just tracked down Valerie at the New York School of Music. So now they're talking to Valerie, and she's telling Benson and Stabler
that Prescott told her she had a gift. She seems like a little bit like meek Valerie, She's like a little bit nervous talking to them and you know she's a violinist and putting her violin away and stuff, and she's like, yeah, Prescott told me I had a gift and we'd work late into the night together and he would drill me until my fingers bled. But it worked. I was feeling the music on a deeper level than I ever thought it possible. And then she says things
got sexual about a month into the private lessons. He made her feel special and that she could be a concert violinist, and he became abusive only after she said she wanted to bounce. So this guy's very controlling. One night, when he was asleep, she found she went to go get a blanket out of a cabinet and she found a video camera aimed through a hole in the wall, and there was a row of tapes with women's names on them. And she was like, that's when I realized
I was just another chapter in his tape collection. And when she tried to end it with him, he turned vicious. He berated and threatened her, and she's like, I couldn't pick up my violin without shaking. So now Munch and Finn are at the spy shop and I'm sorry but this just reminds me of my friend who I won't get into this too much, but Lis, I think you know the story. My friend was working for her brother and trying to help other people at the brother's business
get certified for this really bureaucratic government test. So she was taking the test, and she went to a spy shop and bought a spy button for her shirt. And she went in and I honestly think it's this shirt this store, because she told me where it was. It's kind of near the Empire State Building and I think that's where this is. And she got this spy thing, and she was taping herself taking the test so that she could help other people. And it's just one of
the funniest things. I can't get into too much detail about it because they don't want anybody to get in trouble. You can't go into detail, but I do want to add she was doing good work because a lot of the people she was helping were English second language people. Yeah, and so the test was just unfair to people who might not have a grasp on the language. So she wasn't just cheating for fun. She wanted to have exactly
exactly and the test was worded really really confusing. Even her brother who's the boss, goes, I don't think I could pass this test like it's so worded crazy, And then for people that are like ESL, like it was just impossible and they're all great at their jobs, they just needed to like pass this test. So but didn't you say that didn't get caught and it was a
funny punishment. She did get caught, and her only punishment is that she's not allowed to work in that industry anymore, and that is not something she's ever wanted to do. So it was actually fine, But I just think it's hilarious that they even were like monitoring it so closely. But damn, Like, I wonder if people are just cheating on the essay constantly. So now they're at the spy shop.
They're talking to this nerd. He's showing them all his sneaky little cams and recorders and he's like, yeah, since nine to eleven, this stuff's been flying off the shelves because we're what are we like, not even not even six months from nine to eleven when this episode comes out, and they do mention it quite a few times, so he looks up the equipment from the apartment and he's like, WHOA, Like that's quite in order. That would have run you
a couple thousand dollars worth of like spy equipment. And so it was ordered online and it was charged to Herman Garfunkel in Queens, who they of course tracked down and he has been dead for years, so this is the case of stolen identity. The stuff was all delivered to a PO box at a You Mail It which is near Cassie's apartment and near the conductor's penthouse, both within range of the camera. Do conductors make a lot
of money? Like, I didn't know a conductor would have like not only a penthouse, but another apartment he rents out and then investment opportunities upstate. Like my uncle's a professional violinist and he has a nice house outside of Atlanta, but like a New York City penthouse feels like And I know sectors would make more money.
I wrote conductor salary, but it's all trained conductors. So one second, Oh, it's how No, I think, Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I think you have to come from family money. I think it's like you're in the arts, like I'm sure he has family money. The salary estimates for orchestra musical conductor are only fifty to sixty nine k. You're in LA and then to be an orchestra musician is eleven to twenty seven per hour.
And this is in La. Okay.
The comparably music conductor salary. This is from October twenty twenty three. The salaries of music conductors in the US range from thirteen grand to three hundred and fifty one thousand, with a median of sixty three thousand.
Even if he's making three hundred and fifty thousand the top, that's really not penthouse money in New York City.
No, I think he comes from money. I think it's one of those jobs.
It's like it's like you'll meet someone that is on a board of a chair and it's like you obviously come from wealth, or you have a bout a bag.
Exactly. Okay, So anyway, that's caught my attention. So Craigan's like, we need into that penthouse, and Cabot's there to be like, Babe, we do not have enough for a warrant. And they're like, what about Valerie being taped without her consent? And she doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and she's like, it's not really about the right to privacy, it's about keeping the government out of our bedrooms. And the courts are like really horny for that protection, but I don't.
It's so weird that you'll just let like a spycam into people's bedrooms. Anyway, Craigan argues that it's the same as breaking and entering, and Cabot's like, no, he owns the apartment, he has certain rights to entry, so whatever he may have taped the attack, we need a reason to search his place. And Cabot's like, okay, but you have to limit the warrant to the receiver or any videos and equipment. It's like, why didn't you just say that to start? Like at first she's like there's no way,
and then she's like, okay, you can do it. But so anyway, this man has a very lackluster penthouse. They're in the bedroom and there's barely any furniture. They're searching his bedroom and then live walks over to this huge armor that has literally every single thing they're looking for, a camera aimed at the bed, tons of videotapes. They start bagging them up up and Olivia's like, looks like
we have a long night ahead of us. Cuts to Benson and Stabler watching their tenth homemade porno from this conductor, and Benson goes, he really seems to favor that one position there and it's really funny, and Sabler's like, at least he's consistent. So Finn and Craigan and Munch bust In and Finn goes, wait till you see this. They all sit down to watch it, and done. Done. It
is Cassie in his room. They're kissing there. She seems very consensually hooking up with this man, seemingly and this was recorded last month, so she's obviously been keeping a secret, maybe out of fear or embarrassment, and the Maestro wants to let her know whose boss, So let's get him in. Let's get them in there. Craigan says, that's the end
of act one. So now Benson and Stabler have Cassie in interrogation Wooden blinds not Cement and bars and they're like, tell us the truth, like, what's up with you in Prescott? And she's like, he threatened to ruin my career, Like she said, I met him eight months ago at the Castle's competition. When I won, he offered to bring me in New York City. Sex was not part of the deal. And she does have the exact same voice as her sister, Like when I was listening to her talk, I was like,
you sound like Zoe Deschanel, Like they sound alike. And she's like, he got me the best instructors. He introduced me to all the right people. He set up my debut here in New York, and he was there whenever I needed him. And she's like, I guess I fell in love. So then one night she stopped by his apartments to surprise him with a birthday gift, and he was in bed with another woman. So she told him it was over. She was quitting the orchestra. He flipped
out and said he invested too much in her. He showed her the tape and he's like, hey, babe, you leave. I tell everyone in this business about like I'll just show this to everyone. And it's like that would also make you look crazy, like you know, like I don't think you'll get much conductor work if everyone thinks you're like secretly taping people that you're fucking and so she threatened the police and he said, it's my word against yours,
go for it. And this was a little over a month ago, and they're like, has he's threatened you since? And she's like, well, not exactly, but I've been getting phone calls and flowers every after every concert she gets home, there's flowers at her door with a card that says, ah, my love me. And whenever she gets to her apartment, the phone starts ringing and when she answers it, the person hangs up. So she thought it was Robert the conductor, trying to intimidate her, and it's like, girl, how do
you think he knows when to call? And she finally gets it. It's like, yeah, he's been watching you like she never thought he would ever hurt her, And she gives the name of the florists, and then Finn knocks to let them know that the Maestro has arrived with his lawyer. And the maestro's obviously reminding me of the Seinfeld with the Maestro. I'm sure you as well. So now we've got the Maestro in interrogation, but he's in cement and bars, so you know different, you know, well,
he's not he's not a victim she is. So he's in Cement and Bars and his lawyer is the gorgeous Trevor Langan, mister MRSCA Hargatea aka Personal laundry spokesperson Peter Herman, and he is arguing that this is all private acts between consenting adults, and Olivia's like, oh, did they consent? And she and he goes of course, And they're like, what about Valerie. She didn't consent to be taped, and he goes, oh, you guys didn't notice what a fragile
baby bird she is. She had visions at stardom. I did everything I could to help her, but there was only so much I could do with the material. And then Stabler goes, well, you did every which way you could, and Langan goes, watch it, detective, and the guy goes, I promise you a good time was had by all everyone. Everyone involved loved my NonStop missionary. So what about Cassie? He goes, yeah, I enjoy working with her. She's very talented. And they're like, she lives in your apartment and what's
with the apartment. He's like, it's a tax right off for my loan out which I rent at a loss to visiting musicians and new hires. And I also have two other apartments on the in the sixties, so on the Upper West Side? Are they loaded up with cameras too? What about the flowers and the love notes? And he goes, I don't even know what you're talking about. And he's like, you don't think me a creepy sex nut who tapes every sexual move I make without my partner's consent could
be responsible for this attack. And he's producing her New York debut on Friday. He's like, I'm gonna make her a star. Why the fuck would I do that? Like, why would I mess with that? And they're like, oh, because she rejected you and you don't like that, And where were you when the attack happened And he goes, as a matter of fact, I was with a woman. And he goes, they go, give us a name, and he goes, you already have a name. It's on the
last tape, time coded and dated. And this guy's very cringy and live looks like she wants to kill him. And his name is Michael Nader. He actually passed away in twenty twenty one. He was on Dynasty and all my children, and I watched him on all my children for years. His character's name was Dimitri. He had dark hair, he looked different, but he was on all my children. That voice, I remember it. He has a really like
kind of this guy ose. So anyway, of course, this is the moment Craigan busts in as usual to pull one or both of the detectives out. He summons Elliot. He's like Elliott out here, Craigan says. Munch and Finn called from the concert hall there's been another attack. So at the concert hall, Munch says, when they walked in, they heard the scream from the lobby. They came back from the break and found a message for Cassie. Her cello is lying on the ground. There's some flowers and
a note in the strings that says die bitch. That looks also like it's written in blood. Whose blood? Benson asks, and she looks confused. This isn't an attack though, This is just like an incident, like no one is attacked. But Craigan, you know, loves to bring the drama. So back at the precinct, we've got Stabler, Daddy, Craigan and Huang and Benson is with Cassie. Sabler says, the florist remembers the guy, but he never gave a name, he paid cash. He was just a white guy, medium height,
medium build, blonde. Finn still thinks Prescott could have hired someone, and Huang's like, no, no, no, no, this is all personal like and they're like, the attack is so personal. There's no way that anybody could have been a surrogate, he says, but we've eliminated the two men she's involved with, and Huang is like, well, what if it's in eroto manic.
He believes he's in a relationship that doesn't exist, and munchgoes, sounds like me and my four ex wives, but I'm bump, and he goes, he might not even be in the orchestra or no Cassie at all, Like he could have just been set off by a look a hello, anything
that he just thinks is an affair. And Stabler says it reminds him of a case where a guy thought a newscaster was sending him secret signals during the broadcast, and Fing goes, what happened as if it could have gone anywhere good, and he goes, no, he followed her home and he shot her and when she told him to go away. I looked this up. I tried to see if this was based on anything real, but I
couldn't find anything. So I don't know. And uh, like the case to have a newscaster you mean or yeah, but the case of somebody thinking a newscaster was yeah, the case of somebody thinking a newscaster was communicating with them and sending signals and then killing But I don't it could be real, but I'm sure that's I'm sure newscasters have gotten like stalked before, but I don't know if this is. This actually happened in New York around two thousand and one, which is what Elliot's alluding to.
So they said that this guy might not stop till he kills her. So we got to find him, and he's probably near the receiver that picked up the video signal. But Warren slow going because it's for so many like, you know, buildings and areas, focus on anybody that was in or out of her apartment between then and now. He had to be there to plant the cameras, so
let's find out how he got in. So now we're at the building talking to the super and the building, he said, got a total security overhaul, security codes, alarms, no one's getting in or out without permission from the tenant. And they're like, well, what about when there's maintenance, and he goes, well, then I go and I wait in the apartment. If the tenant is going to be out,
that's policy. So in the last month, he said, Casey had one maintenance thing, which was like a clogged kitchen drain, and then there was a security tech that went there to install the new alarm system recently, or to check on the new alarm system. Excuse me. The guy was up there for maybe an hour and he's like, what do you mean. Maybe I thought it was policy that you stay there, and he's like, well, turned out I had a little problem in the same time at another apartment.
But he gets the work order and the name of the tech is Ray Campbell. So now we're talking to a supervisor and he's like, oh, yes, it's nine to eleven. Security has been huge, Like I don't know, I don't know why nine to eleven. Everyone's like, now I need a spy camera in my bedroom, But that's what is happening. He's like, I had to hire new guys. Ray's one of my best guys. He's been here ten years. They're like, well, what was wrong with Cassie's system. He's like, I don't remember.
I probably serviced millions of people. But he looks up the work order and he goes, that's odd. This isn't in the system, this work order. And Ray was at a totally other location that day, a block away. So they're like, uh, where's Ray. He's on a job. So they go talk to Ray. This guy is another soap opera guy. There's like so many, there's like four soap opera people in this episode. This guy is played by
Joseph Adams. He's a soap guy. And Stabler asks him about the job and he goes, yeah, I remember installing the system there a couple months ago, but I haven't been back since. And then he shows him the work order and he goes, yeah, that's my employee number, but that's not my signature. And he goes, maybe it's the same guy who stole the rest of my stuff. It turns out a month ago somebody broke into his truck, got tools, a jacket and a hat, and like he didn't even think to check to see if the guy
took any paperwork, like who would want that? So this guy poses a security tech to gain access to Cassie's apartment. Only three addresses within the broadcast range of the cameras are serviced by that company. One is Cassis, which means the receiver's got to be in one of the other two buildings. And I was like, that is kind of a strong like why does the receive I guess that does make sense because like, how else would you have access unless you But how does this guy know what
buildings are accessed by this company? I guess he took a ton of work orders. Anyway, the signatures don't match, but Sabler also found a work order for an unauthorized DSL line in the basement of one of the buildings. They're like, send Munch in fin over with a tech so over there. Finn is like, why don't we always get stuck with these glamorous gigs? And Munch is like it's our can do attitude, and Finn's like, I should have just been a garbage man if I wanted to,
like go through nasty basements. And Morales has got something. He's like, there's a box with a DSL line and Munch goes, oh, like what connects my computer to the world Wide Web? And yeah, Munch has narc energy all the time. They find the receiver and Morales has to explain to them basically what streaming is and they cannot believe it, like it is two thousand and two, like none of us had any idea, like what you could just be like sending out video on the Internet that
people could be watching in real time? Like what? So you know, Morales is like, welcome to the information age. My name is not Tarru, like I'm a person. And so back at the precinct, they're explaining that this guy is putting the video out over the Internet, but not for public consumption, like only one computer is hitting on it. So they're like because Stabler are like how many hits?
Like thinking that this is going out as some kind of like creepy you know, voyeur porn or something, but it's just going to this whoever is the doer's computer. It's for his personal use, it seems, and the computer belongs to a guy named Terry Willard. We're meeting a lot of people, We're going to a lot of locations.
This episode's twisty and turvy. They go to Terry Willard's apartment and they make the landlady open the door, and his apartment looks like pretty modern for like a weird computery, Like, man, I don't know, I was expecting it to be creepier, but then Finn like strong arms a door open, and we find this guy's little stalker clubhouse room and there's photos of Cassie everywhere Stalker City. Fens and finds a nineteen ninety seven college yearbook from Indiana University, so he's
been stalking her since then. And they're like, yeah, talk about your groupie from hell. Terry's her number one fan, which feels to me like a reference to misery, but maybe not. And then that's the end of act two. So at the top of AC three, they're taking tons of evidence out of this guy's apartment, computers, boxes of stuff, and the woman who let them in is like trying
to defend them. She's like, he's a good man, he's sweet and gentle, and then you know, finally, when they talked to her a little bit more, she drops a bomb that this is her boyfriend and it's ever since Thanksgiving they've been boyfriend girlfriend, and then that was their first date, like they were both in town and she invited him to like a diner, and you know that's when their relationship started. She says she's never been inside his little stocker cave because it's his office. I have
no need to go in there. And that's we hear that all the time. You know, Fritzel's wife never went down to his basement. That's his workshop, certainly not where he's keeping my daughter and a bunch of child prisoners. They're like, did he ever mention Cassie And she's like, no, he doesn't have any friends. He has too much work. He's a partner at an internet company in Soho that's really taking off called web Trends. So now we're at web Trends and we find out old Terry got laid
off a couple months earlier. He's not a partner because he's not a people person. He's just a really great website designer. But they had a dump ninety percent of their staff. When the sock tanked, like the whole place is empty. It's one of those like huge office floors of like a startup where all the cubicles are empty and he's like, now we're almost bankrupt. They said Terry
went ballistic when they told him about his layoff. The last few weeks, he'd seemed distracted and they were like, oh, why he goes He probably heard the rumors, which of course, I'm like, they've paid the humans and the nests, and he goes. I would have kept him on, but his work habits became erratic, Like I guess he would have been in the top ten percent that didn't get fired, but his work habits became erratic. He was missing days of work, coming in all tired, like he'd been up
all night. So when they finally canned him, he just like snapped. And so that's interesting. And now we're with Morales looking at all of Terry's footage and it is so creepy. He's been basically downloading silent footage of Cassie
doing her whole day. He's got cameras on her whole apartment, and then he makes little DVDs of her day, like he cuts together and scores it with music, and he's done twenty days of like you know, Cassie's life, like just okay, here she wakes up and here's a little song. While she's brushing her teeth and like, here's her having
sex with somebody. So they go to the day of the attack, and unfortunately everything is off camera, like the camera's not right in the entryway, and then the perp shuts the door so there's no light, so they really don't have anything. Then Moraless hands munch a bunch of papers and goes, but you might be interested in this. And it turns out that this like little script that's in his hand is called the Legend of Cassie and Terry. So this little freak fan fiction of his fake relationship
with Cassie. It's an online journal. It started four years ago at Indiana University when he first heard her play the cello. It follows her all over the world to competitions. But then the story takes a turn when Terry goes to prison for credit card fraud because he needed a way to pay for all these trips. He's like following a violinist do all around the world. If we learn anything from Anton Krasnikoff, it's that you know, you line up a lot of shows in this line of work,
and you're all over the world. So when Terry gets out of jail, Cassie has graduated and moved away. He goes online. He buys her social security number for forty five dollars, uses it to trace her to the symphony, but nothing in the journal ties him to the attack. And his girlfriend hasn't seen him in two days, so he probably knows we're on his trail and Munch reveals
but he's still in town. This guy has half a dozen online aliases, and he goes to public computer cafes and coffee shops and bookstores and stuff where they have computers and internet, and he visits these sites and they're tracking his movements, and if he stays online long enough, we can track him. But I don't think that's how it works with online, like you sign on and your
IP address is there. It's not the same as like keep the caller on the line, which, by the way, I was just telling Casey about this movie Black Christmas I watched with Jared. It's like an old horror movie from the late seventies, I think, And the way that they would track phone numbers is everybody's phone was in this massive room, like everybody's phone number, and you would have to keep the guy on the line while a guy just went around checking every single box to see
where the call was coming from. Like, they keep not being able to get this guy because they can't get to the boxes in time. Jared goes, when we were watching it, he goes, wait till you see how they track phone calls. So that was interesting for me having watched this show. But I don't think that's how it works, Like you have to be online firs certain amount of time, like if you sign on, you're on. There's the IP. So they're like, well, maybe we can flush this guy out.
Tell Benson and Saylord to bring Cassie in for a chat. So they bring Cassie in. They show him the picture of the guy and she's like, that's him and they're like, yeah, he followed you from college and he's obsessed with you. And she's like, I don't know this person. I've never seen him. And Wang explains, well, he thinks you too are in love, and having the cameras on you helped further his delusion without risking rejection. And she's like, how
do you know? And it's like, bitch, that's doctor George Wong. He just like knows everything, so don't And he also kept the whole journal, like we know everything. So she's like, can we stop him? And they're like, we think we can, but we need your help. He basically goes to this I Love Cassie site that he made like two to three times a day, and they want her to dedicate her show to him, her big violin concert debut that she has on Friday, talk about him in press interviews,
let him know how much he means to you. Like this is sick, Like I feel like they could in other ways, just I don't know. But it's like, hey, cello, lady, you're good at acting, right, just pretend that this man is your best friend and you need him to come to the show. And she's like, but this guy is nuts, and they're like, don't worry. We'll cover every entrance and g him before he even gets near you. Trust us, we are cops and we never fuck up l ol.
So they're like, this is our best chance to get him into a controlled situation and we just can't do it without you. So now we cut to the concert hall. Everyone's in place. Stabler's like in a tux with a
clear security piece in his ear like regular security. Morales is behind the scenes with facial recognition software, and Munch is like, I didn't know we could afford this, and it's like, Munch, you know how much the NYPD gets, like a billion jillion dollars, So like you're the conspiracy guy, I feel like you would know that, and moralesy.
Yes, Sturday, I went to the Walgreens like prescription, you know, pickup like in the car, but all these cop cars parked in the Walgreens parking lot to the side of it, and I was like, what's going on? And they were all outside the car eating donuts like truly out of a cartan.
They all had boxes.
Of food on the on the on the roof of their cars, their biggest two piece, and they were just snack and I was like, oh my god, that's so funny. Yeah, because there's just cartoons of themselves. That's really good. So Morales is explaining how the software works, like it scans faces and compares it to Terry's profile, but it allows for weight loss, weight gain, facial hair glasses because the photo they have, if Terry is old, they get a hit asle to man and a beard. They grab him.
This guy looks confused and then it's like oh, another hit, and this guy, Terry looks like a lot of people, it turns out, so actually Morales is like, I just set the threshold really low, so we would definitely get the guy. So they're just like pulling random men aside, and Cassie's backstage with her boyfriend An Benson, and she is understandably freaking out, and they're like, don't worry, we
got you. We're gonna get him. Just think about the music, not your stalker who attacked and possibly raped you, who's just out in the audience maybe, And so she like goes out and starts playing, and then they let the first guy they grabbed go and Finn goes sorry for the inconvenience, and I'm like, you know, the most polite cops in the biz, you're just not going to get that. I feel like I've never heard a cop say sorry.
So then an usher walks up to them and hands them a box that he found outside Cassie's dressing room that's addressed to her, and they open the box and inside is a dead rat nasty. So Stabler gets a call on the head piece that they got another hit. So Cassie continues to play her boyfriend's in the front row. I was even like going through points where I was like, is it the boyfriend? Like I know he had an alibi, but maybe he had like found out about her affair
with the Maestro and got like I was. My mind was going a lot of different places. So they try to bring the stalker out and he is making a scene and like he's like, no, Cassie invited me. Cassie invited me and keeps yelling that because he's obviously watching all the press for her interviews for her debut where she's going, Terry, hope to see you there. So also Benson is in a hot little LBD and Stabler is in a tux as they like haul this guy out. So that's the end of act three, top of AAC four.
I'm still not positive where this is going, but I'm starting to get idea. In interrogation with Stoker, Terry played by this guy's name Nate Mooney. He's also been on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but a lot of other stuff. This guy's worked a lot, like one episodes of like every show you've ever heard of, and he's like, uh no, Cassie rules, she's the best. There's no one like her. I heard her playing in college one time and when she looked at me and she smiled, and I just
knew from then on that we'd be together. And so it's like when men are like, why don't you smile, It's like, this is why, Like you smile at the wrong freak and he's planning your honeymoon in his mind and buying your social Security number online, you know, like this is why we're just frowning or we're at rest,
you know. So they go, you sacrifice so much to be with her, and he's like, it's not a sacrifice when you love someone, so you know this man is has problems, you know, so it must have stung for you to see her fucking another guy. Huh. And he goes, it wasn't her fault. He got her drunk and took
advantage of her. And it's like, but don't you see her having sex with her boyfriend and the maestro, like you know there's multiple And then Stabler and Craigan start tag teaming like Ryley up Terry, Like nah, she threw it in your face after you gave it all up for her, like you did everything for her I'd want to slap the shit out of her if that was me. And he's like, no, I never heard her. I love her. It was horrible the way he beat her. And they're like,
how did you know she was beaten? And he said I saw it, and they're like with the spy cams and then he tries to backpedal on that and he's like, no, I just like found a website online that had a spycam of her, like and it's like this episode does have a lot of weird math, like he planted the spy cams, but also the Maestro uses spy cams, so are some of them his and some of them the Maestro? Like it is really confusing, like what's happening with this
math of this episode? And so what about the cello the rat? And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. And they're like, well, then why are you on the run and he goes, well, Amy says, you're trying to put me in jail for something I didn't do. And Amy is the other They go, oh, yeah, your other girlfriend.
Amy.
It's like the landlady at the place that let them in, and he goes, he's not my girlfriend, she's my landlady. And they're like, well, she says, she's your girlfriend, and then he goes, well she lied, and Stabler yells at him and calls him a liar. Tell us the truth and I'll convince the DIA to go easy on you, Craigan says, and he goes, I told you I would
never hurt Cassie. And so now Cabot is weighing in and she's like, honestly, we have nothing to tie him to this assault, no forensics, no witnesses, just a mank full of photos of her. They're like, what about the cameras? The credit card fraud, It's like, she goes, we can't prove it was him who used the card like it?
But yeah, because I guess if you use a credit card that you stole and you get it to a mailbox that you've registered in someone else's name, if they don't have you on camera, they can never prove that it was like you who set it up. You know. So just a little tip for those of you trying to commit credit card fraud, just please don't take mine. I can't change all my numbers again. So his fingerprint was found in her place, they said, and Cabot's like, well,
that's trespassing at best. And it's like Jesus, like what about stalking? And Cabot says, stalking has to prove that he tried to frighten her, but he intentionally tried to stay hidden. Cassie had never even seen this guy until his arrest, So I guess stalking is like, you know, showing up at someone's work, like letting yourself be seen, like you know, and this guy was fully in hiding.
So they're like, well, what about the case in New Jersey where the landlord got thirty years for planting hidden cameras. Cabot goes, that guy recorded sound, which elevated the charges to wiretapping. Terry did not record sound, just video. It is wild, all these like little things before we got with the technology, you know. So they're like, well, we can get him for burglary of the van because he did they found the stolen tech uniform. But that's it
until the law catches up with all this technology. We've got this guy on burglary and maybe trespassing. And I was looking it up to see if it's been updated, and it's I found it's said on the Internet. In many states, it's legal to use hidden cameras in your home for security purposes. However, cameras are typically not out in areas where people have a reasonable expectation of privacy,
such as bathrooms, bedrooms, changing rooms. And in New York, it is a felony to use a hidden camera to do an upskirt or a down blouse little quote unquote both of those phrases, To secretly photograph or record someone under or through their clothing, to monitor someone when they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, to monitor someone without their knowledge or consent, or to use or install imaging devices for no legitimate purpose. Because I remember my friend. Oh,
and then it just says felony. Disclosures in New York at least are punishable by up to four years in prison and a five thousand dollars fine. Misdemeanor is three hundred and sixty four days in prison and a one thousand dollars fine. I love how they're like just shy of the day. Three hundred and sixty four days just a leap year in prison. But we have a friend who was talking to a comedian that got like me too, Like, after all this stuff came out and he called her
and she recorded their conversation. But she did it in Nevada, where it's legal to record someone without them knowing. There are some states where you can record someone without them knowing, and those other states where it's totally illegal to record someone without their That's why banks it always says, this conversation may be recorded for quality assurance, like they have to always let you know, all like if they're taping
a call. But our friend taped this guy, and she goes because I was in Vegas and I'm allowed to do that, So it was But did she know that's how she planned it. She went to Vegas to make this call to like y, she just happened to be She just happened. Oh my god. I mean, yeah, she might have taped it anyway and just not like share it. But then she's like, then I realized I didn't do anything wrong because in Vegas it's legal, or Nevada it's legal. Anyway.
The gang is all together now in the precinct chatting. Finn is like, well, at least we shut down this little freaks operation. But Munch is like, no, the internet's forever. I read that somewhere and Stabler's like, what a hell of a way to achieve immortality. Benson walks in and says, Amy posted Terry's bail. This guy got busted stalking another woman and she's bailing him out. Like how blind can love be? One of them says, and Stabler is about to get a union Cassie when Craigan comes in, face
fall in and goes too late. Cassie's been shot, done done. So now we're at the hospital. The boyfriend Kevin is there and he is played by Robert Bogue, also a soap guy. He's on like hundreds of episodes of Guiding Light. If you're a Guiding Light gall or guy, I never watched that one. I was only the ABC soaps, One Life to Live, All my children in General Hospital. This guy, Robert Bogue, is also in an FV episode called Legitimate
Rape from season fourteen, and he works a lot. He's still working, He's in tons of stuff, but he's on edge. When they get to him in the waiting room, he's like, he's like, she's still in surgery. He's really really worried. So this is when I officially dropped my theory that he's involved, and he says, Cassie came to pick him up from work. I forgot my wallet, so I went inside to grab it, and then I heard the gunshots.
I ran back out and found her lying there. The doctor comes out and is like, she's gonna be okay. She got really lucky. So then the cops pull the doc aside. They're like, tell it to us straight. She's like two slugs to the back. One hit a kidney and the other one just missed her heart. It was small gun, close range. You can talk to her when she's out of recovery. So they get a hit on Terry's activity at a cafe two blocks away, and Sailor
goes to check it out with Munch. So now they're at a place called Joe's Cafe and they're looking around and they see this kid on a computer just watching Cassie take her clothes off on a video, this little teen. He's like oh, and he's like what the guy that was sitting her left, So I'm just like watching his porn. It's like not a big deal. And everybody keeps describing this guy as scraggly haired and it's kind of a burn.
Like everyone keeps going, I don't know, medium height, medium builds, scraggly hair, and which would be my nightmare if someone said I had scraggly hair. And he says the guy was blubbering about a chick leaving him for another man. And then they show a picture of Terry to the teen and he goes, yep, that's him. The kid goes, he left ten minutes ago, and he also left Amy's credit card behind the front desk. So they send this kid to go off and do his homework. Stapler's like,
do we have homework? Get the hell out of here. And then Stabler sends Munch and Finn to go see what Amy is up to, and they catch up to her as she's leaving her apartment building and she's got all these grocery bags. And she is played by Jennifer Laura Thompson, who is a Broadway baby. She was Chenowit's original understudy in Wicked, and she did get to go on and play Glinda in Wicked, and she was in the original cast of Dear Evan Hanson on Broadway, so
she's done a lot of Broadway stuff. She's like, I really got to go. I'm on my way to make dinner for a friend in Brooklyn, and you can kind of tell by her diction that she's a Broadway girl, but she is playing it like kind of good creed, Like I'm I didn't really get it at first, but now I am like, oh yeah, what is up with this woman? She's creepy. And she says, Terry hasn't been home since he got out, and they're like, oh, well, he what about your credit card? He has your credit card.
They're like, She's like, where did you find that? They're like at an internet cafe, and she goes, there must be some mistake and she goes, well, someone has shot Cassie. And they're like, she goes, not Terry. He's the gentlest man I know. And they're like, well, we just want to make sure he doesn't hurt you, and she's like, you've got him all wrong. And then she just gets into her cab and they don't believe a word she's saying about this dinner in Brooklyn, so they decide to
tail her at the hospital. Now Cassie is awake, and she remembers nothing, of course, much like her first attack, just a sharp pain in her back and falling to the floor.
Suddenly I've really been going through it.
I know what I like, and it's it's such a fucked experience too. Like I know a lot of people have been through stalking, but it's like you, I think
you mostly know who the person is. You know, some guy you went on one date with and then broke it off with and he's delusional, but like to have it just be someone that you don't even know, You've never laid eyes on them, who knows how much they could have been around you your whole life because you never recognize them is so creepy and like, I don't know.
The violation just one other episode, like an in Cell episode where this guy is killing all the.
Chads or whatever.
Yeah, and then the girl's like, I don't even fucking know you, and he oh, hold it, hold it's manifesto.
Oh is that the episode?
Yeah, there's ones where they look at his picture and they don't remember they don't remember him, and even though he was like a busboy at their restaurant where they waited, like, they just don't remember him. And that's like an in Cell's like, that's that'll really get an in cell going, you know. So suddenly in the hospital room. These guys come in with like four huge bouquets of flowers for her, and they're like hold up, and they grab the cart
and it says together forever love Me. So they chase down the delivery guy like it's him, and he's like, I deliver flowers. And now Munch is on the phone calling them, being like we've been following Amy all over creation. She's switched cabs twice and she's ended up at a dive hotel in Spanish Harlem, room six o two. So now Benson, Stabler, Munch and Finn are all there. They knock on the hotel room door and she's like go away, and Benson's like, imagine the cops are like, okay, bye,
So Benson says open the door. She opens it. She's standing there in a bathrobe, freshly showered. She's like, Terry's gone, and there's window open, so you maybe d with like a curtain blowing, so you maybe think he went out the window. She says, I was going to take him home to Oklahoma so we could make a new life, but Terry wouldn't leave the whore, and I warned her to leave him alone. And so we find out Amy's
the one that attacked Cassie. She has she has a delusional relationship with Terry, who has a delusional relationship with Cassie, And so she goes she wouldn't listen, and they're like, so you shot her. She goes, I had to stop her. I'm the only one who really loves him, and then they kick open the door to the bathroom and holy shit, Terry is dead on the bathroom floor with blood spatter everywhere.
Like it is a particular the early seasons of the show. Like, I know they've gone back to a lot of really gross violence in very recent episodes, but the very early seasons they did like long shots of the dead body, blood splatter everywhere, Like I don't really think you see as much of that in the middle seasons. But it is a gruesome scene in this bathroom. And then they just you just the cameras on Amy going I didn't know what else to do. She has so many men.
Terry is all that I have. And that's dick wolf baby.
So that you thing, two delusions is that's that's us view at its finest.
Two delusional people, two different guys that do spy cams, like so much going on. But also and this girl.
Just wants to play the cello.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you think though that when did she kill Terry? Did she just kill Terry while Benson, while Munch and Finn were outside calling him back up, or did she kill him earlier and then go home to her apartment and like that's what she had in the like shift stuff in the bags.
No, because I think she killed him in that hotel room and then showered there to get the blood off.
Yeah.
I think she stabbed him a ton in close range and had to shower.
But they were following him, so they must have been right outside the hotel when that happened. But it looked like that would have taken a long time. There was just so much blood everywhere, I know, but you hit an art and it really splirts. According to Dexter, I don't know.
Yeah, but she because also it's like so classic like blaming her, blaming the cello girl, where it's like, no, you're this guy is the one chasing her?
Yeah, no, he fucking exists.
Yeah, there's the delusion is deep on all the levels here.
And then it's like you go back to the evidence and you're like, oh, that's why there wasn't a rape and that's why this and that's so yeah, and then you go back in time. But I do like her boyfriend because he's like, fuck the maestro, I don't care.
I love you, I'm there for you.
And I like that. Oh God, twisted, twisted.
Well, I'm gonna do the true crime soon, and so much of it, it's interesting, is outdated technology, and like law is not catching up to tech, where it's like this crime is so outdated today. Kind of it depends what state you live in. Okay, so listen to our commercials, really listen. So the case that I will be doing is it's the Susan Wilson case.
And that is a common name.
Okay, So this happened in nineteen ninety seven, if you can take yourself all the way back there to those Hourioas nineties and her husband Gary, So they moved into a quaint little neighborhood Monroe in Louisiana. They got a bigger house and they just were feeling super lucky about
their new home, new neighborhood, new life. Down the block from Susan lived her a friend from high school whose name was Stephen Glover and he went to Gary and Susan's wedding, and he was also a deacon in their church and even helped get them their house.
Their kids all played together, but.
Then all of a sudden, it started to feel like this dude knew a little too much about them. So one day, Susan remembers like her college yearbook came in, And this makes me think, like why would college yearbooks take so long, or like was it just from her old home or are they young? Like h was a grad school. Like this kind of confused me in terms
of timing. But so her college yearbook came in, and then that night he came by and he said something like, oh, I know what you've been doing all day looking at that yearbook, haven't you?
And that's when it was.
Like, okay, that was kind of like how would he have known that? And that's according to CBS News. And then also like the families had keys to each other's houses, which is regular. You have my keys like you give you want neighbors to have your keys. I remember our neighbors had our keys when I forgot my keys from school after I broke the door that one time.
You know everyone had.
Keys, do you know, we had like no keys to my house growing up, Like my house, the doors my house was just open all the time, Like I don't even know if my parents had keys to the house. Well, well that's interesting because like my friend Lindsay, like her back door was always unlocked, like we would always just walk into her family's house.
Yeah, I don't know.
Well, my version of a security system when we would go on vacation was leaving the TV on. He was like, Oh, people won't break into your house if they think you're home watching TV. And I was like, with the car gone from the driveway, I think thieves are a little bit more advanced, Dad, But yeah, we just like never ever were locked out of our house or ever had keys to our house.
Wow, that's wild.
No, WI had keys and I lost them often, but it was totally normal for neighbors to have each other's keys.
But yes, it began to.
Worry Susan because one weekend, she and her sister went into Glover's house like they snuck in, so they did have keys. So they ended up sneaking into Glover's house and they found something. They found a videotape, and her sister was like, they watched the tape, she goes, wait, isn't that your bed, And then all of a sudden, she saw her image on the tape and then it was like, holy shit, that is my bed, that is me,
and then there's a camera focused on our bed. She then they went into his attic and they found like a thirteen inch TV under the installation, and that's where he was like watching stuff I don't know.
And then it.
Hit her like there were little tiny holes in the ceiling of her home. But she didn't think that the holes were big enough for spying, Like she didn't even think about the holes. And then all of a sudden, she's like, oh my god, all of these holes are like camera things. So she couldn't sleep in her bed anymore, obviously, and she started to go a little nutty and like would sleep in her closet and little like she just, yeah, understandably,
stopped trusting everything. And then they started finding other little holes everywhere, and they found little holes over the shower and in the child's bathroom, but like no tapes from that were ever found.
But Glover was also spying in his home too.
There was just like he put a camera in the room next to his hot tub where guests would change to go into the hot tub. So but he got no time for invasion of privacy, not any because so the district attorney, Jerry Jones said, you have the peeping tom, but and there are laws against that, but there was no laws against the video part of the crime yet. This is nineteen ninety seven, so technology was ahead of
the law. But it's like, you obviously know it's wrong to videotape people in their home without telling them, but there just was nothing on the books.
And but cameras existed before.
This, you know what I mean. Like I don't understand.
I just feel like camera technology only in like the late nineties, was getting so small where you could even do like anybody would have noticed a camera before that, like you know, if you had dressing room.
Yeah, but we're talking about tiny cameras.
But like remember the season one episode where like Carrie's of Sex and the City where Carrie's friend it like likes fucking models and taping them and then Samantha wants to fuck him, and then his camera was full size, you know, it was a full size So it's like there were cameras. I don't understand why the law, Like you needed them to be tiny to protect people from being hit, like taped without their knowledge.
Yeah, it's just strange to me.
But like, so then this guy Jerry Jones, the DA was said if he peeked through a window, he could have been arrested, but since it was a camera, it
could not be prosecuted. But it's totally not true because when my building super climbed on a ladder and spied on me in the bedroom window, I was told by the NYPD no charges could be filed because he wasn't jerking off or videotaping, and because he like with the ladder, like since he's the super of the building, you would have to prove that he couldn't be there and stuff. But like he wasn't a ladder whistling and it like elbows into my apartment. But the NYPD said, no jes,
no tape, no, no nothing. So it's like this guy in Louisiana is saying we have peeping tom laws, and then in New York cut to like in the twenty teens, there are no people tom laws. He needed to leave evidence, So it's like it's really fucking annoying.
Yeah, but I wonder if that had been a regular guy and not your super, if they could have gotten him. But because he's the super, he can always say he's fixing shit.
Yeah right, no, we can sure, but you would have to give someone a heads up while you're in their window.
I think that Corny was just like lazy. It's great, I'm the thing, it's right. But I'm wondering if he was just like a random dude that climbed up a fire escape and was peeping, if he would get busted and that this guy was probably like, oh, their window was shaking, I had to fix it, you know, like he made an excuse that obviously should have still told you. Yeah, he's so scary. Yeah, it's just like it's annoying.
It's like the cops will do anything to not do work or something, or they'll go shoot an unarmed person too much or too little. So eventually this dude just planned guilty to unauthorized entry and he got three years probation. So that's not really like, doesn't make anyone really feel safer. He admitted that he taped them, but he denies that he taped the children, and he did offer an apology through his lawyer, Susan brought a civil suit against Glover
for invasion of privacy. I was not able to find out how that ended. Susan in the DA though, they began a quest to pass laws making video voyeurism a crime. So she successfully lobbied for passage of a state law that made video voyeurism a felony. And then September two thousand and three, the House and Senate criminalized video voyeurism before it went to President Bush's desk, and then he codified it, so the Video Voyeurism Prevention Act of two thousand and four went in.
And then do you see my notes? What is that symbol on past code? Oh?
I don't know. I like copied and pasted it. I don't know what this code is. Maybe we'll post it on our stories.
It kind of helped, like two s's overlapping each other a little bit, like yeah, with like you know code, let us know, Like, but yeah, I have no idea what that is.
So it's eighteen US code. This symbol eighteen oh one. And this was, like I said, it was really hard to search for this because kind of like parental alienation syndrome. Most of the stuff was defense attorneys helping you beat these charges. It was like rows and rows of Google pages of defenses. I watched a bunch of videos of defense attorneys being like were you found? Like were are you charged for video voyeurs? And I'm gonna help you? And this is unfair. It was just like so many attorneys,
I mean, defense attorneys gotta work. So it was just like all these people because the laws are tricky, like there's security cameras, and then it's like what you said in your findings where it's like if it's a place where it's presumed privacy, but how do you prove that? And who owns what? And with the sound on and off, it's like it is really.
And then that recent episode of SVU where Live is getting peeped on when she's in the shower of that motel room when she's in her bedroom with the way, yeah the towel was a huge moment for us. By the way, I just google that symbol. It means section never seen it in my life.
Shine, but I didn't. I just put it in Google. I don't know, so funny, but I guess I thought you would know it. You are my Google. So it's eighteen US Code section eighteen oh one. Okay, cool, that makes sense, So we have a new symbol section. So yeah, like there were just tons of defense attorneys for this. But in Louisiana I found that if you are found guilty,
you do have to register as a sex offender. And other states have harsher laws too, So like by two thousand and seven, thirty four states made video voyeurism a felony, but from state to state it does depend if it's a felony or misdemeanor. Like in some states videotaping someone in their own bedroom is still a fucking misdemeanor, Like it is really wild. And then the Spokesman Review, which
is a paper in Spokane, Spokane, whatever, Washington. I think it's Spokane, we've been there, or into Folkan.
I think they say Spokane, Yeah, spoke okay, Spokane. That's that sounds okay.
Actually, So that paper says that she that Wilson is one is the one that prompted all these states timpost penalties for videotaping people without their knowledge, and she is pleased by the Federal Act. But those are like federal case. So like the federal laws, they like, if.
You tape someone on like federal land parks, like all of that kind of stuff, secret bathrooms and stuff like that, because I guess there's this Federal Act overall, but then state to state they're still always they do their own thing. Yeah, being a.
Lawyer is so.
Complicated, Like I couldn't even find I just I just wanted a straightforward list states misdemeanor, felony.
Are you on the list or not? And it's like you can't find that.
Everything is so convoluted and difficult for at least me, Like I just whenever I look for laws states to state, it's so complicated. And then it's just like all these articles and all these inclusions and all these pieces, it's pretty wild. The federal actors say that violators can have fines up to one hundred thousand dollars and sent to prison for a year or both. But she also, like Wilson, said that the way the evidence was handled was really
fucked up. Like the cops would say to her like, oh, it seems like you've lost some weight from the videos, and they refer to her as a performer on the tape.
Oh my god. Yeah.
And then my favorite was the New York Post had an article and it was titled make Peepers Pay.
I thought that was good. I didn't even take anything from the article, but I did.
I like like that. And the case did become a lifetime TV movie. And that's the other thing that made this research hard because it was all reviews about the movie and information about the movie. So the movie is Video Voyeur, the Susan Wilson story where Angie Harmon played Susan.
Oh my gosh, lawn Order Royalty Angie Harmon, Yeah, and I see it just sucks.
She was she's a Republican, but oh she is boo. Maybe she's changed her ways. But yeah, she's married to like a football player. And yeah that track she's so beautiful. Oh yeah, like in twenty thirteen, it's Risolian, I'll star. Angie Harmon talks homosexuality, politics and believing in therapy. Okay, great, she goes, I'm a liberal Republican.
We actually exist.
Call it naivete or stupidity, but I didn't know that unless you're a Democrat, you aren't allowed to talk politics in Hollywood. Oh, she goes, whether you're gay or straight, it doesn't matter. That's nice.
Yeah, that's all well and good until her party starts taking away right the rights of the gay people, you know, the bars like, yeah, she goes.
I believe in therapy, I don't believe in staying in it for life. When you have an issue, talk to somebody. Yeah, why do we care what she said? Ah, because she's resoli or maybe she's asles. I actually have no no, I meant wait. Twenty nineteen, Angie Harmon slammed by conservative fans over feminism shirt.
You went to the dark side. Yeah, see, you're never gonna be good enough for them over there, Angie. If you're not like all the way with the Republicans, they're not gonna keep you. Yeah, she wrote a shirt.
She wrote a shirt that said feminism is for everybody, And yeah, I believe feminists hate men. They're jealous of men, they wish they were men, just some twelve.
Okay, thank you for telling me about this though. That's interesting. I didn't know about this case and what a pioneer got. Susan Wilson, I'm sorry that happened to you. But you made fucking lemonade out of lemons. They're making these making the peepers pay, as they say, But join us for a post mortem because we still don't have any guests all right, post mortem time. I guess, I don't know, are we all becoming numb to just being videotaped all the time now that we have.
Our No, I would be really upset if I found hidden cameras. I don't think the prevalence of cell phones in our labs will preface for that, absolutely.
And in hotels and anything.
Just like you do act different when you're by yourself, and it is crazy to imagine that someone can see her.
And it's just it's just such a crazy example of how like the law never is like up to date with technology and like that there was barely anything this woman could do when this guy was just like invading her privacy in her bedroom for like months. I mean, I don't know how. I don't remember how long the well I did place cover the fame.
Like the most famous case of this that I know is for Aaron Andrews. So Aaron Andrews is was at at ESPM. But she's an NFL reporter and you know as a podcast and a clothing a sports clothing line and stuff like that. But this guy was going to every like in three separate hotel rooms. He would get the room next to her and like set up cameras and like peeping tom and there was all these videos of her naked that he put together and put on
the internet. But my thing is how was he able to request to be near her every single time?
What a psycho? Yeah?
But he did get jail time and fines and then like she was awarded fifty five million dollars, so twenty seven million from him, and then Marriotts owed the rest.
What yeah?
Yeah, So four years later Andrews won a fifty five million dollars lost suit against Barrett and the companies that manage the Nashville Marriott hotel where the videos were filmed. Oh, I guess it was just one Marriotte every time, But I don't know like she did she always get the same room. How did he find out? And how We're like, how did they? How was a man able to request to be near her and the hotel there was no red flags or nothing?
Yeah, because it's like we check in together and we're like, can you put us close to each other? Like if possible? But like yeah, if I was just like waiting for you to go upstairs and then going can I get a room near her? Like that would be.
Or you would request a specific number, but like, how did he get it every time?
Did? Like? Was she just in the presidential suite?
It is? It is wild, but she was.
Just on Hoda's podcast recently talking about it, so it's a little bit Wait.
Did you say, like how he actually took the videos? No, he was just okay, how would he drill a hole through a way?
Like a secretly filmed her several times through a peep hole while she was naked in her room. So I also don't know how there's a peep hole, but was it? I just can't imagine Aaron Andrews being in a room with conjoined doors. I really like, there's no fucking way unless there's like a producer on the other side or people that she worked with, Like, I just can't imagine her being at But I guess she was just at a Marriott, So I don't I don't know. I don't
know what ESPN is doing. But yeah, he put the shit out online and he sent two and a half years in jail.
Fucking good man. I guess they've caught they've caught up now, Yeah, he.
Was released in twenty twelve, but I really remember that and like something she said. She goes, yeah, people were like this scandal, and she's like, it wasn't a fucking scandal, you know, And just the way it was framed, it's like she truly was a victim of a crime, and the media was trying to portray it as some like
salacious scandal. And I know that was annoying for her because like, yeah, a scandal is if but even if like someone if like you make the video, but even if someone puts it up without your consent, that's a crime.
So it's like, I don't know.
Yeah, Like in this interview, she's saying that a friend called her to tell her about it and was like, there's this video, and she goes, no, there's not, Like I don't do that. I don't send those videos, Like I don't have like that. If somebody did that for me, like I'm the same, like I don't. I just like don't take videos like that. So it's like if someone's like Cara, there's like a pornographic video of you going
and I'd be like, Jared, what did you do? You know, because like there's no way like this could be like, you know what I mean, we're just like not filming.
So but yeah, and now that I'm like a full football fan, it's my feed is so much football.
Yeah. I just saw thinking from a week ago that Aaron Andrews was having dinner with Tom Brady in Beverly Hills.
I don't care about him. I think he's a loser.
Well mean neither. I don't care about him either, But I was wondering if that was in your for you page now that you're a football girl.
No, I really don't care about him.
And when I was talking to Sarah Tiana, who is an NFL expert and a comedian, so I cornered her and she was telling me great things about Travis boots on the ground is that like he's great, She's never seen him be a creepy red flag in any capacity they've been out and about, and like he is respectful and kind and she just has only the best things to say about him. And then she was like, oh, he's like they're gonna be like Tom Brady and Jose and I go, absolutely not. That is disgusting. They are
like Beckham and Posh. If we're gonna do anything, and She's like, oh whatever, and it's like, I guess if you're like a football fan, you do really love Tom Brady, but he's just such a douche tool to me.
Tom Brady's the one that gave up to tomatoes because they cause inflammation and caused a million people to start doing that, like not eating night shades and stuff.
They also didn't end up together, and Gazelle gave up her job. Gizelle quit modeling for like twelve years, you know what I mean.
No, the thing about Tom Brady that kills me, and I hope we don't have a ton of Tom Brady fans that are gonna come for us, but like, it kills me that the women that are that eighty for Brady is based on are real fucking women. And he executive produced that movie and appears in that movie, and he never met those women, Like as when that movie came out, those women had not met Tom Brady. Maybe they have now, but at that time they had not met.
And I was like, you can't go meet the women who are obsessed with you that you're making a movie off of their story.
Now, he sucks, I did see because he is in my feed sometimes, like a younger football player asked advice. He was like, how do I balance You know, my family and the excitement and parties and all that, but I have a job to do. And Tom Brady gave like a two minute kind of speech of like, none of nothing else matters.
This is your job.
People are relying on you, and it's not a party, and you know you owe nobody nothing in a way. But I'm just saying, like, compare it, like being like, oh my god, Travis and Taylor will be like Brady and Giselle is to me the most awful thing. Like Taylor is not gonna stop working and making music, you know what I mean, Like, and I think he likes that. And I bet Tom Brady just wanted someone at home.
And I don't know, I just don't like him, maybe because he was on the winningest most team and stuff and I think they won because of him, and then he proved it by going to Tampa Bay.
But like, I don't like him, and your story proves it. He can be a good football player. We just I mean, that has nothing to do with me. He's just not like Travis.
I heard his magnetic lights up a room, charismatic funny y.
I'm loving those old sweets where he's like I just watched the squirrel go to town on a nut damn. Like he seems funny, but yeah, just more energy.
Like to me, Tom Brady's a robot and it looks like he had what is it, the boogle fat removed the buckle fat.
He is he looks like a buckle fat king. I don't know if he actually did it, but that's what I think of. Buckle fat removal is like just that like Sally like sunken in cheeks kind of.
Because I also understand to be a champion, you must be a little nuts you know, you need to. It is, you have to be very competitive, You have to work very hard, go above and beyond everyone else that's the best in their game. You have to like I think he lead the team, Like I get it. It is you really have to have that spirit that makes you want to do more more. But I don't know Sean White had that. And he seems cool. He seems like he would have a bowl of Lucky Charms and celebrate
his birthday with a beer, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I just like, don't respect someone that can't eat tomatoes because of you know, the sugar content, Like I can't.
It just sickens me. And he I heard he wasn't even nice to his other son. Remember he had a whole other White Bridge Am. Yeah. I don't know.
I truly don't know.
I don't I can't even believe I've talked this long about something I have no idea about. But I know I hate him.
All right, Well, but I love you.
That's safe to say. Lisa will not be planting a tiny surveillance camera inside of Tom Brady's home.
I wouldn't want to spy on anyone, or even when people are like what magical power would you have? Or superhero power if you could have anything anyone that's like mind reading, walking through walls invisible, those are freaks.
That's a red flag. I think invisible could be kind of fun, Not because I want to watch people. I think you could like, like I don't know, I think you could, like I think it's a re things about like you could like I don't know, I could find out like who killed John Benet, Like there's like so many things you could do if you turn invisible. You could take money, teleport teleport, Yeah, like teleportation is if you want to be everywhere, or you can have like intense detectives.
I just think those three like.
Invading the ability to invade people's boundaries. If that is your number, you can fly like you're picking invisibility over flight free.
I would do flight, but I also think invisible could be good. But I don't think about it as being able to like listen in on people's conversations. I think about it to be able to do whatever I fucking want, no one can see me. What would okay?
Yeah, I think it's like it perks my ears up where I'm like, you're not trustworthy if you want to be invisible, but you're your number one is not invisible.
No, I do like flight. You're not going to pick it. I just did this at family camp last year where we said what would your superpower be? And I think I said flight, But then when people said invisible, I was like, good one, I would do that too.
No no, no, no no no no no an invisibility cloak. No for me, it's full teleportation at all times, Like I can't even think of anything else that would come near it. Oh yeah, yeah, you could just pop and be somewhere. Yeah, we would never have to get on a plane ever again. Yeah, can you tell what your bags? You would be anywhere you need to be.
I don't know.
I would honestly rather shit my clothes. I don't know what I would do think about that. I really didn't think about that, but.
I was like, so I teleported to Spain and the airline lost my fucking toilet trees, Like that would totally be us.
I was just talking to someone who said, when they fly, they don't pack and they buy stuff when they land.
What.
Yeah, Yeah, I just did a panel about travel for another podcast, and there was just one person on the pod that was like, I don't know, I just think of it as an venture and I don't really care what happens. And I'm like, you got to be like, I'm so opposite of that, Like I'm planning every everything, you know, Like I can't think about being lax about travel.
But you know, but while you're there or no, she's like getting to the airport, she doesn't really care about getting there super early, Like she never checks the bat like you know, it's like she's kind of like I can sleep anywhere if I have.
Delays it's something, But why is she flying?
I mean comedy.
Oh it's someone that does comedy.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's just more pressure, like you can't not get like if if your one o'clock flight gets delayed, you miss your show.
Yeah, like I you know what I mean.
It's like, yeah, when I'm when I'm coming home, when I'm just when I have nothing going on, I'm the most relaxed.
I'll fucking get a voucher. If you need me to switch, I don't give a fuck. You're like, you're one of those if you have flexible travel plans, please see us for five hundred adulta bucks or whatever.
Well, it would have to be over a thousand. Yeah, be cash. I follow Erica.
Hello, oh she reads the fine print, so would I would try to get the max money. I just feel when there's work involved, that's what adds the pressure.
It's not like just being there.
Even missing a family holiday or an event doesn't bother me as much. It's like to miss work is fucked.
Well. My husband famously missed his grandmother's funeral because Delta had a staffing issue, and they gave him like fifty bucks voucher or something. It was crazy anyway, always back to the flights. Always we're always bitching about.
I mean, I'm just dreading getting on the planes tomorrow.
Oh my god. And I went to pick up my brother at Lax last night, like just kind of forgetting because it was like Monday before Thanksgiving and it was crazy just getting into Lax like crazy.
Yeah, I'm gonna leave like an hour before I would normally leave. Yeah, yeah, you'll be good if you do that. I think I'm definitely doing that because even the parking spot's going to be crazy.
I don't know what I'm gonna do. This is a giant mistake, it really is. You do us. You've gone to a lot of lengths to avoid eatings Thanksgiving at a steakhouse with me and my children, and I get that, you know, I feel like that makes sense. Let's get into our what would Sister Peg Do, because you know
speak we're mentioning Thanksgiving. We're in the time machine as usual, and for this week's what would Sister Peg Do, which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards a resource, a book, a website, an organization, something where you can learn more about what we talked about in today's episode.
Nothing really fits in for us on today's episode, and so with the holidays coming up, we wanted to point you guys towards a resource for anyone struggling with, like any mental health difficulties during this stressful time of year. It's like a very crazy time of year. There's family issues, there's you know, work issues, There's all kinds of stuff creeping up for people, and I feel like the holidays
are a time that really taxes our mental health. So we wanted to point you to the nine eight eight Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. The nine eight eight Lifeline provides twenty four to seven free and confidential support for people in distress, US prevention and crisis resources for you or loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States. So for more resources, go to nine eight lifeline dot org.
You can chat with the nine eight Lifeline there and if you or someone you know is having a crisis called nine eight eight amazing. Yeah, take care of yourselves this holiday season, and next week we'll be doing a Misunderstanding Season seventeen, episode two. Can't wait.
You're all the best, XOXO forever see you next week. That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Keraklank and at Glitterchase. As always, please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina.
Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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