Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Dundun. Hello, I am Liza Trigger and I'm Kara Klank. Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Every week we talk about an episode of Law and Order SVU, the crime that it is based on, and we have an amazing guest every week that was in the episode we chat about. And right now we have huge news to share with everybody. Yes, Kara and I we're lucky enough to be invited to a Zoom bachelorette party and there was a stripper on Zoom. We got a Zoom stripper, and I think that's the best thing that's happened to me.
In twenty twenty one, we got our own personal Bolo.
Y'all.
We just told you guys last week about the world's most epic bacherette party on real houses of Atlanta, and then we had ourselves a virtual version of it and it was really really hilarious and funny, and was my toddler sort of in and out. Yeah, she was okay, it was five o'clock.
There was another mom breastfeeding and pumping during the strip tease as well, we're a varied group of women, and he didn't pay for this advertisement, but we are going to shout out Billy Rock Entertainment.
Billy Rock Entertainment. If you need an online exotic dancwer, this guy did so he did like honestly, he did like performance art, like lyrical movement and then like and then he like gets a cape. He I mean, he takes off his you don't see penis or anything like, but I don't think that's what anybody was like really going for. But like he was really sweet. We were like tipping him venmo. We had a really good time
in the chat. You think it's gonna be awkward. I don't know, maybe we just have a good group of girlfriends or something, but like you think it's gonna be awkward, and it was really fun. Like the chat was making me die. Like everybody was being great.
I mean, it was weird when he kissed his cross necklace and made a movement to the Lord in the sky while his while he turned his cape into a skirt and showed us his butt cheeks That was definitely a silly moment.
He also was in his kitchen and there was like a little placard on his table that said Blessed, so you could tell he loved the Lord immediately and we were all on board.
He also saw his treadmill. There was a garbage can in the background. But my favorite part of Billy Rock, besides his perfect eyebrows and body, was in the beginning he went, oh, I think my roommate has some vodka.
I'll take a shot with you guys.
And it's like you could have lied and said it's your own vodka, Like why why did you tell us you had a roommate, Billy.
You don't let us have a fantasy that you can afford to live alone, Billy. But he was Yeah, he was amazing. So again, then I kept thinking his roommate was going to walk in. Then I kept thinking, oh, man, the roommate's going to come home at some point. This is going to be a real sitcom. But you should Billy Rock Entertainment. It was. It was so fun and funny.
So my daughter was having a full just like woke up too late from a nap and was having a meltdown and just needed to be with me, even though my husband was home trying to take care of her, and she was sitting on my lap. And then but for the beginning part of the bachelerette, and then when the strooper came out, I was like, Okay, we need to walk away. And then I just kept like popping
back in to like see the strooper. But then she would be coming following me to be like, what are you looking at, mama.
There was also two girls driving in a car while watching the shop show.
People were commuting. That's the beauty of the online strip show bachelorette party is that you can be a girl on the go and you can still attend, you know.
It was incredible. We also had dramatic injuries. Your daughter got injured. I had to take my parents cat to the er twice because they're so annoying.
It's been a really emotional week. Yeah, my daughter had her first injury that drew blood where she hit her head. It's very she got the glue, the surgical glue. She's fine, but you know, it's like for me, it was like my husband was more traumatized than anyone else. He was likely I was like, I have to talk him down. He's sensitive, Yeah he is sensitive, but yeah, she was fine. It was just like, you know, when you're calling plastic surgeons and you're like, hy, I have a twenty three
month old. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to get a plastic surgeon in LA to pay attention to you when you're not getting your tits done.
I didn't realize that cuts and scrapes lead to plastic surgery.
If it's on the face. If it's on the face, you know, if it's a really big laceration, like you really do kind of want to get a plastic surgeon so that you don't get a bad scar. She didn't end up needing it. I just couldn't tell, you know, like I'm not a doctor, so but it was. She got on the phone with my mom. My mom's a doctor, so I called my mom to see what to do, and my mind, she was all calm and she got on the phone. I showed her to my mom and she goes, I got a boom boo grandma and started
crying and I was like, I'm gonna cry. This is so this is so emotional, but it's all so cute. It was so cute. It was so cute, but it was like she had calmed down. But then seeing my mom, who she's not met in real life for the past fifteen months. She hasn't seen my mom since she's had a memory, you know, Like, so it was just cute. It's nice she know she still knows her grandma. Yeah, but then what happened to your cat?
A uti? That cat's been fucking and her thyroid was fucked. But my parents are just and it's the I don't blame them. Like my dad's brother died in surgery in Russia in the former Soviet Union because the doctor was drunk and fucked up the surgery. Oh my god. And then we've just had lots like I understand his fear. And then his other brother also died in surgery at an older age, and so like everyone is just like terrified of doctors, and they've passed it on to me,
which I'm not appreciative of. Like I wait till it is the worst case scenario before I go to the doctor. And I have friends that are like, oh, I have a cough going to the doctor, and I wish I had that.
I'm not. I'ma have a cough. But I go to the dermatologists every year to get chut my moles checked. I go to the obgi N every year for my Like, I'm just very pro especially because health insurance is so scarce. Like I've had moments where I thought I didn't have health insurance, and so when I have it, I'm like, I'm going, But I don't go just for like every sniffle.
No. And when we moved to America, the dentist tried tried to convince my mom to knock all her teeth out what and just get fake teeth. Yeah, And she's like, I'm going to keep my teeth and they're like, oh, it's not worth it. Like they were just trying to take her teeth. So they're just distrusting of medical stuff.
And so Kat wasn't eating and I was like, let me just take her, and they refused, and then they finally let me, but not over and this and that, and then my parents are like, listen, Lisa, we've lived a lot of life and this is it. We just have to say bye and let her die slowly and lets the cat die of a uti yeah, And I was like, you guys are out of control. I'm taking her. She's now jumping around, running, meeting me at the door, eating normally, just like living a full life like she
is thirteen. But they were just like, Liza, it's time to let her go.
I was like, so they distrust medicine and doctors, but they also like just they just like had a They just have What am I trying to say, I don't know. They just confusing, just like an acceptance of the afterlife. They're just like this is how she goes, sorry, it's a I guess I have a paper cut. Good night. It's been a nice life.
Like yeah, well, because our friend Julia, she did tell me. I was like, I don't know, Russia really fucked up my parents, and she goes, yeah, I guess when your government is going after you and your people, it might affect you a little bit. And I was like, oh, yeah, when you're the targeted attack of the government, you might it might affect your beliefs.
You know. I watched the Americans and I always think about that because they're always like, we're going to go back, We're going to go back, and I'm like, why are you going back? You have a very nice life in Washington.
D c they you don't brainwash their brainsh I In the group chat, I revealed my dad said he'll get the vaccine when Putin gets the vaccine. Like Putin's waiting on something. And it's like who is Putin?
Who?
He were not even living there? Why are you?
He's like, Putin has the vaccine. Putin got vaccinated a year ago. I met you. Like Putin is so vaccinated.
They're brainwashed, you know. Watching the Americans too, I was like, why do you want to go back?
Like they'd be like, I can't wait to go back with our kids. I'm like, your kids that have lived a free life in America are going to love and like every time they go back and they show the USSR, it looks so terrible on the show. I'm like people are like fighting in breadlines and like the supermarket has nothing on the shelves. I'm like, yeah, get back there. It looks fun anyway. I'm sure's beautiful parts of Russia, by the way, and don't come for me now. I was just thinking of that too.
I was like, great, people are gonna get about our anti Russia rhetoric. Putin fans are gonna what if a bunch of Putin people are listening too.
Yeah, we have. We just have like Putin fans listening to us. Oh wait, speaking of people that do listen to us, we put out a question last week about eighty as. We were like, why was Casey Novak at the scene in that episode like to Eightya's go to the scene? Why was Coreese doing the unassisted pull up to eightas go to the scene. We have upwards of five listeners who are adas, which I think is really exciting. We got at least five or six messages, which means
that there's probably more out there. Ada's who listened to our podcast, who told us varying things. Most of them said there's no way in how that adas would go to a crime scene because then they become a witness to the crime where they could contaminate the crime scene or something. But then other people were like, there are some cases where they do go for walkthroughs and blah
blah blah. But mostly it was that SVU is exaggerating it. Anyway, I'm just like shocked and honored that we have so many ada's.
And our listeners are so nice.
I'm not used to this from the internet.
We posted the article we are in a magazine in Ireland and people were like, that's what I like to see. I tell everyone, way to go, girls, I'm like, who are you guys? Can you please get on my personal Twitter and start guessing me.
You're lifting Roppo on her personal guys, Glitter Cheese, get on it. She needs this. But let's get going because we've got a great episode for today. It's one of the most haunting and favorite episodes, and it's probably one of the ones I've seen the most times. I've seen it so many times. You say that every single episode Lisa Haunting, you are just haunted. I know Lisa is perpetually haunted, but I have seen this one like several several times. All right, let's get into it. This episode
is stranger. It is season ten, episode eleven. We open the episode with a little boy running scared down a hallway like a little red Herring for the show and his mom. He runs to his mom's arms and it turns out it's just his aunt, Nikki is chasing him in a mask and she's like, take a chill pill, mom, We're just playing.
But also, what is that mask? A burned man?
Yeah?
The mask is pretty terrifying. It is like just like a ghoule mask. And then in the living room, Erica and Nikki's parents are playing Wei. It's just like a real sign of the times. It's just like two old people playing like we baseball, And I kind of love that the mom who I recognize and looked up from her. IMDb plays Jesse Pinkman's mom and breaking bed. So she answers the door and a girl is standing there and
she's like, can I help you? And the girl's like, it's me, and then the mom doesn't recognize her, and then Erica comes up behind her and notices the shamrock tattoo on her hand and goes, mom, it's Heather and gives her a big hug. Now he cuts to Olivia and Elliot getting a scoop from another detective. Heather Hallander went missing at age fourteen, four years earlier. I just don't really buy the people's faces changed that much from
age fourteen to eighteen. But it does turn out that she was much heavier when she went missing, and like now is super super skinny, so that may have changed.
What she looked like.
But I don't know. It just seems weird. To me, and then the detective reveals that she ran Everyone thought she ran away because her parents were about to ship her off to Da Da dn fat camp, which is what they call it in the episode. And Lisa's going to talk for a second about her actual experience with a weight loss camp, and so if anyone has a
problem with that, please fast forward a couple minutes. Lisa, I didn't know if maybe you wanted to weigh in here as someone who's been a counselor at a fat camp.
I did work at fat camp. I would just say the one I was that was immoral, but I'm sure there are some good health based ones. But they were giving these kids diet doritos and making them run up a hill and yeah, it was intense.
Okay, meanwhile, what's a diet dorito?
Can I have some?
I didn't know.
But what was very very cool it was the fat camp that was featured on MTV's True Life, So obviously, at twenty years old, I was very thrilled about all of that.
And it was just like the movies like I had.
I found bubblegum and hair dryers and rolled up socks. There were snacks like candies were everywhere I did find. I mean I had the teen girls, so I also found bags of prescription pills that weren't allowed.
And it was a dark place.
Because our number one job was we had to walk around the camp at night to make sure people weren't fucking. Oh those kids are horny. They're horny. They're horny like our listeners. We so we would have to take flashlights and go on nookie patrol to make sure people weren't humping. And we didn't have like a baby being born at camp.
Yeah. See I worked at an all girls camp, so I didn't really have to deal with that excepted dances with the brother camp. But sounds like your camp. It was a problem.
Yeah, and the population is four girls to one guy, so it was just like people.
Yeah, the guys were raking it in. I don't know.
Wow, it was a wild place. But I got fired because I failed a breathalyzer and I was underage. And then I had a great time in New York City after.
They bussed me. Yes, I always hear about your trip to New York after you got fired from Vacuum.
Yeah, the firing sucked and I got betrayed by my co counselor, and she told on me because I was wasted the night before and I was underage.
Judas, Judas for sure.
She was from Oregon, and I fucking hate her, and she talked to her boyfriend on the phone every night. I just it's like, let a girl be hungover. Like, I can't believe you would want someone to get fired for drinking too much at twenty years old. Yeah, for being fun. It's not like I had to like six year olds. I had seventeen year old girls, which one of them is my friend. One of my campers was eighteen years old from Sweden and she's a famous opera singer.
But also you're like an adult at eighteen in Europe, so it was weird, Like she was like, what are these rules?
I can drink and live a life in Sweden.
But after I got fired, I was wheeled away in a golf cart and she just waved to me slowly.
And as I got sent to New York, one of us, oh and I walked on fire.
We had like a special event and we wrote things that bother us on boards and then we broke the boards, and then we burnt the boards, and then we walked on the burning boards, like we got over our issues. Should we do that when you come to La Yes, burn some boards.
We'll do it in my backyard, on my fake grass where our friends already burnt a hole in my one. So the detective shows them the old missing poster. You see the like the missing Heather, and you're like, Okay, I guess this could be her. But this girl Heather that's back now says that she's been a sex slave for the past four years. So now we're at the
Hollanders home. Olivia and Elliott go to interview Heather and she won't, like immediately come out of her room, and we're getting a lot of attitude from Niki, the quote unquote screw up middle chip that she calls herself, and she just freely admits that she used to call her sister howther Heffer, and that that's kind of what happened the day she went missing. She stormed out of the house because she was upset that her sister called her this name. And Nicky's like, she probably blames me for
the whole thing. And then Heather comes out and is like, I never blamed you one time, and she is just so self centered.
Your sister comes home from being a sex slave and missing, and you're just like, oh, so you blame me, huh, yeah, Nicki sucks. She looks like she loves Paramore, which is a great band, but that's her vibe, very Avril Levine type, you know, Kristin Ritterer another breaking bad reference, but looks like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, punk rock. So Benson notices that Heather has already showered, and Nicky's like, yeah, three times. Hope no one else needed hot water. It's like, your sister was a sex slave. She can shower as many times.
As she needs. And do you pay the water bill?
I don't think so, it seems like your parents do. It's very hard response. We're definitely getting some red flag vibes from Nicki. So now they're getting like their story from how He Elliott and Olivia, and she says that a man grabbed her. She doesn't know his name. She's
been with him the whole time. He made her call him daddy, and he kept her in a concrete room and then one day he was drunk and forgot to put the padlock on the door, and she just ran out into the basement up the stairs and kept running, she doesn't know where or how far. Then she says, the last time he sexually assaulted her was yesterday. So Elliott gathers her clothes and Olivia is like, what about your underwear? And she's like, he never let me wear
any very creepy we see. There's like a long scene of Heather getting her physical exam as she recounts like how the man grabbed her and like what her life was like in this basement, and like she said, basically what happened was she after she got into the fight with Nikki, she was crying in the street. A man came up to her and said she was too pretty to be crying. So please don't let a man say that to you. We're all pretty enough to be crying.
You can cry whenever you want. You're too pretty to cry is basically a level up from you're pretty when you smile. So he lured her into this van. She didn't get in, but he put ether or something in a rag over her face to make her pass out, and then all she remembers is she woke up on a concrete floor naked. She screamed for help, pounded on the door. There was a mattress on the ground. She said she just laid down and cried, and then he would come in. He would lock the door from the
inside and like get on top of her. And basically she was like, if I couldn't be nice, he'd let me starve to death. And she thought she went a week without eating, and it was actually two days. So I think that just goes to show how long we think we can survive without food, but mentally it's much less time. He kept her in the room the whole time, no windows, no running water. He would lower a garden hose down and they were like, what did you use
for a toilet? And she was like a lawn chair with a bucket over under it, So pretty pretty horrendous. They try to retrace her steps. They're in Columbus Circle, which seems like I don't know, I don't know how.
Many confusing place in Manhattan, like besides anything downtown because there's no numbers, but that's circle and how the streets go with the park. I have meetings there and get lost every single time.
Right, because there's different the subways get out at different points of the circle, so you don't know. If you don't know the area. I used to live near there, so I know the area. But like you, if you don't know you're north or south, you can literally just end up very lost there because it is just like a huge rotunda. But it doesn't strike me as like the kind of neighborhood where I don't know. I think,
if you're living near Columbus Circle, I don't know. I guess you could have a basement with a with a sex lab and and I suppose anywhere. So I don't know what I'm talking about. So she thinks Olivia is judging her for not getting out sooner, and Olivia's like, girl, no, I'm not. Heather gets really confused. There's like the camera is spinning, so we kind of are like having the same feeling as her of like where am I where is this? Like car at car horns are beeping. It
starts to freak out. She's basically having like a PTSD moment, and she just asks if she can do this the next stay so she can be with her family. So the vessidence Stabler drop Heather at home at the top of X two. The press suddenly shows up and starts snapping pictures of her, which I just think is like so wild. I mean, do they honestly do that? Do they get in the faces of like people that were captured as sex slaves?
And like I thought there were rape protection laws where you couldn't just publish photos of people that have been right, I.
Think there are. That's what's like so wild about what happens next, Like Elliott basically tells the photographers to erase the photos and he kind of just moves menacingly towards this photographer who backs up, because I think we would all back up if Christopher Maloney was coming at us at a court. Let go fully in, yeah, or just lean in. But you know, if he was coming at you with his classic Elliott anger eyes, I think you'd
probably get moving. And so this guy eventually falls breaks the camera, and then the next scene is Craigan reading off like these demands from the newspaper.
He works for the leg but also the journal so there's a journalist and a cameraman. But the journalist is like, I'm a young teen sold into sex slaver. We gotta sell paper, Like do you hear the words coming out of your mouth? You fucking trauma lunatic?
And I think the new York Ledger is supposed to be the New York Post like the entire time, like just kind of like a CD paper that people still read. But is like, really, I've said it before on the show, I think the New York Post should only be used to line bird cages. But Craigan's reading off like that the camera costs five thousand dollars and they want disciplinary action against Elliot. Elliott's like, I never touched the guy, and he's right, he never did, so the guy just fell.
But then they pull up the paper and the paper says sex slave in the city as a fan of sex in the city. Not a cool pun, not funny, Like, I just don't that that's the kind of shit that they put on the New York Post headlines all the time.
I would like to say I was in Ireland once and there was a store called snacks in the city, which is a good pun.
Yeah, sure sure. Heather's sister, Erica, the older sister, shows up at the precinct. She's pissed about the photo in the paper. She complains about the miss person's detective. She's like, all they ever did was call us once a month to see if we'd heard from her, and like she was like, I had to set up my own website to get tips, so I and then they're like, oh, did you get any and she's like not really. So she feels guilty for not going after Heather that day
four years ago. She kind of reveals that. So then we find out later that Nicki, the bitch sister, of course showed Heather the photos. So now Heather doesn't want to leave the house, doesn't want to go do the scene re enactment to find out where she ran from or anything like that. Munch feels like something's up with Nicki. Munch gets a little bit of like a light bulb. He's like, I mean, I think maybe she saw her sister get abducted, Like her bad behavior could be guilt.
And also with like her photo being published, her abuser could see that and no like and that track her down. It's like so fucked up and irresponsible.
It's very very fucked up. So basically, Olivia says that the medical exam revealed that she did have scarring from like long term abuse, but no fluids. No fluids were in the exam, but they did find semen on her dress, so that's good. That they got some evidence, and then, of course, exactly the right moment, Munch gets a tip a phone call. So Munch and Finn go to see this priest who says he witnessed something. Munch goes, it's kosher, like he always has to get a Jewish joke in
which I love. This priest says that he's seen Heather at Mass the last four Sundays and she seemed like she was in a spiritual crisis. She was with a man in his fifties, but it's not a man who's on the membership role, so they can't give him any identifying information about this guy. And the priest said, The priest goes, I mean I wasn't comfortable dropping a dime. I was like, all right, cool, priest, what's the light the lingo here?
Like?
So he the priest is like, should I talk to her? Munch is like, we got it. Olivia asks Heather if the man ever took her outside, and Heather like very fervently denies it, and then Olivia asks her about the church, and she freaks out on Olivia and tells her to leave. And at the precinct they're all chatting. Wong says that albursts of rage, aren't weird abuse victim? And Munch goes if she was abused, and it's like they already got the medical exam saying that she had trauma like physical
like it was already confirmed that she's been abused. So I don't really know why Munch is being a jackass here, and Cragan's like, for all we know, she ran away with her boyfriend. It's like, this has been confirmed. You guys need to shut the hell up.
And you're in the special victim and you've been there just to reminder seasons now you know.
They're all abused.
Like I just love that there's always one arguing when it's been proven tie every week for a decade.
And then someone's like, and what about her vitamin D deficiency? And then Munch has like this bizarro theory about how we all have vitamin D deficiencies now because of too much sunscreen. I'm like, okay, okay. Cragan's like, our choices are bone disease or skin cancer. You can't win. I'm like, you guys are so New Yorky, like you're allowed to
get ten minutes of sun a day. Wang explains that Heather was totally under this guy's control, so taking her out in public might have been like the ultimate power play for him. And Elliot's like, why not scream in the church? And I'm like, do you guys remember what happened to Jeffrey Dahmer's victim who escaped. Jeffrey Dahmer had a victim who escaped, went up to two girls. He was so drugged that he couldn't speak. The police showed up,
the police gave him back to Jeffrey Dahmer. So I don't think that there's any guarantees that screaming in church is going to get you saved, and it's probably going to get you ultimately very punished by this person that's keeping you captives. So, and you know we've learned about there is also the Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, and Whong talks about another case where the captor and the victim went out and did karaoke together, so like this has a precedent,
you know. So then Benson gets a call that Heather has attempted suicide. Since she goes to the hospital, they rush her into surgery. Eventually she's okay. Olivia goes to see her and apologizes and Heather said, She's like, I'm sorry I made you so mad. Like Olivia feels like responsible for this suicide attempt, and Heather's like, I didn't do this because of you. I just dreamed of being back with my family for so long, and I feel
like a freak. I don't belong anywhere. Nobody's comfortable around me. NICKI hates me. My mom will look me in the eye, and so like, Olivia tries to comfort her, and Elliott goes to talk to the doctor, like any tips did she say anything when she was under in a seizure or anything like that, And the doctor mentions he goes, well, Heather's parents are both type A and Heather is type B, so there is no way she can be their child.
And this is a classic SVU tidbit, a lesson that I will keep forever. But I guess right before surgery or anything, they always have to ask the parent for blood transfusions because there could be.
Some cheating or adopting or whatever.
Yeah, and I like that's something that I've kept with me from this episode forever.
But they always have to check too. They always do like a rapid test on their blood test so they can avoid like lawsuits. So at the top of act three, here we are. There's no way Heather is the child of this woman because she has admitted to not having any kind of like infidelities or anything. Olivia is like, how could her own family not recognize her? And then they talk about the age difference and the weight loss. I don't really think she looks like the old Heather.
I don't know about you, guys. So then they zoom in on the tech like they overlay their faces first, which is interesting, like her face is more like oval, Like even if you lose weight, your face shape kind of stays the same. So and then they zoom in on the tattoo and it turns out it's a mirror image tattoo. It's not like you don't if you overlay them. The little stem of the shamrock gos the other way.
So Elliot's like, oh, she's a con artist. So Olivia goes to talk to Heather first and plays some.
Passive aggressive games. I would say, Olivia is there to play, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Olivia shows up. Heather's working on study guides for college. It seems like a real bounce back from like yesterday you tried to kill yourself and today you're like, my dad says I should go to college, Like okay, everyone deals with trauma in their own way. I was like, if I was in the hospital, i'd be watching SVU,
but you do your guides. Olivia has Heather's old clarinet because we'd learned earlier in the episode that Heather was first chair clarinet and had actually been kidnapped the day before the spring concert. So Olivia's like, play us a little ditty, Heather. Then Heather's like, I don't really, I don't. I mean, I don't think I could. I don't want to, like, and then she is like what's the story behind the tattoo? And Heather's like, I got it at a tattoo parlor
and Olivia is like, actually you didn't. Nicki's boyfriend gave that tattoo to Heather and they've all got in big trouble. So we're going to run this DNA and we're going to find out that you're not Heather. Heather breaks down. Olivia's like pissed off and is like is any of this real? Like why would you do this? And She's like because I needed a family and they needed a daughter. So now we're at the Hollanders home. Erica calls Heather, let's call her Feather now because she's fake Heather. So
Erica calls Feather a rancid bitch. Nicki says, I knew it, and the mother knew there was a connection missing, but blamed herself. And it turned out that Feather got all these details from the Internet and then some of it when she arrived from like looking at scrap books and like picking up on family like chatter, and they think she's an edp and emotionally disturbed person. And the family wants her arrested, Like who's paying for her in this hospital?
Like? Get her out again? Nikki, so concerned with finances. I do not our insurance. You are a dependent, Okay, we know that you are not paying your own taxes, Like I just have never seen such a fiscally like conservative punk life.
Yeah the water this hospital bed girl? Enough? How much is your hair dye budget?
All right?
So now we are in court. Heather is being arraigned one count of identity theft, one count of fraud. The judge is Judge Andrews, who I recognize, so I looked her up. The actresses named Lindsay Krauss. She's played a judge on seven episodes of SBU and this was her first appearance. Fun fact, she was married to the playwright David Mammott and is the mother of Zosha Mammot aka Shirshana from Girls.
And she has Jim teacher vibes. Oh, I think she has rich lady vibes. She has rich lady vibes to me.
She she has almost an accent of like, young lady, this prosecutor is giving you an open window.
Like maybe, yeah, I'm just going off physicality. Sure reminds me of my junior high gym teacher.
Is so bad with that hair. She she does have a short haircut and sort of a t and his tan, which is every gym teacher I've ever had as well.
And honestly, I would love to have a show Shana SVU episode.
Oh yeah, I think she would be really good. I don't know what she's doing. We should try to work that out. Let's call some people. She's doing indie movies.
She's doing indie movies, but now you know, she's probably pickling stuff. I bet she's gardening, pickling, maybe making resin necklaces. Yeah.
Yeah, Feather is living a really bad life, like basically at court and she's like she turns around and begs the Hollanders, like not to do this to her. There's Gray Lick, my least favorite person is They're asking for twenty thousand dollars bail and her lawyer's like, she's indigen she has no money or friends or family, and Gray look's like, well, if she would give a name, she'd be less of a flight risk. The judge is like, this is a window for you, my darling, and Feather
won't do it. Erica has like a full freak attack like breakdown in the courtroom and like because she's convinced that Feather knows where Heather is, and you know, Nicky's like she doesn't know anything, and Erica's going crazy. This is at the point of the episode where I realized that Erica has something I like to call Broadway face, Like I can just immediately tell that Erica is a
Broadway star. And of course I looked her up and she is two time Tony nominee Kate Baldwin, So why when she was screaming, I was like, this is a woman who knows how to play to the back of the theater, Like, so she is a Broadway gal. Wait what plays was she? She was in Hello Dolly with About Middler, I think, and she's been in like is it Finnian's Rainbow? I think, like she's been in a bunsh of.
I saw Hello Dolly with Bet Midler twice.
Oh, I bet you maybe, yeah, you probably saw her. I saw that twice. I was dying to see that, and I went to New York the day after it closed.
Anyway, well, I went one to previews and like someone had a heart attack in the audience. She messed up words. She it was like it was truly before the premiere. It was the previews. So it was kind of a mess. Not really it was amazing, and you know, I cried, I'm you know, seeing Bette Midler. But when I went a few months later, I felt really lucky that I got to see it a few months in and see Bette Midler just like fully in it fully like it was awesome.
I'm still like devastated I didn't get to see it. Bet Miller's like my childhood and like adulthood hero. I'm obsessed with her. So Munch and gray Lick basically get Erica. Once she's calmed down, they get her to the precinct where they kind of like revealed to her like you're the one that gave all this information to this girl, Like everything that you posted about on your blog helped her build this woman, like build like a case to
become this your sister. So she's humiliated. Well, she kind of calms down and is like, Okay, this isn't like a huge conspiracy where this girl knows where my sister is and like did a body snatching thing, and like we'll try to replace her. Elliot says, Sbu is taking over Heather's case. We're really going to try to find her.
Olivia tracks down where Feather got the tattoo and finds out that the guy who paid for it with a credit card is named Carl Vasco, and he matches the description that the priest gave of the man from church. So they go to visit this guy, Carl Vasco. He fucking runs immediately iced Tea Sucker punches him while he's running.
Well, this had some of my favorite moments because as he starts running, Stabler says, we got a runner. And then when Finn punches him. He goes, we got a dropper. Yeah, and I liked that, Yeah for sure, lot because it's not even a saying, it's just like it's just I don't know, I really loved it. Right.
So Olivia does some very questionably legal police work where she goes, oh, I thought I heard him come down into the basement, so that she can check out the basement and see if like feather story checks out. Olivia goes down into the basement finds exactly what she had described. The mattress on the floor, the tub, the lawn chair, toilet, like it's all there. It's like a true, true nightmare.
And I know it's because these people are sadists and evil, but like, if you're gonna like hold someone captive forever, why not make it nice? I never why not?
I just so yeah, her a bed.
I just don't get it. I mean, I get there, I shouldn't be able to understand it, but I just I'm like her, just get some plumbing. What's the issue.
Yeah, Okay. So Warner says they got DNA from Vasco, which he did not have to offer because basically Finn gave him a bloody ass nose. So his DNA was all over the place and it matches the semen that was on Feathers dress. So Olivia's like, great, about to leave the room, classic Warner move where she goes, I'm not finished, okay, and.
Her curls are looking extra luscious.
And yeah, she's got that bounce.
Baby.
She ran the DNA from Feather's rape kit, found out that her name is Kristin Vusilik. She is in Kotis for being kidnapped six years earlier. Her mother thought it was a parental kidnapping by her husband, Carl Vusilik flashes a picture of Carl Vusilik. It is Carl Vasco. So he held his own daughter in a dungeon for six years as a sex slave. That's like a big twist.
Then we see a great scene that Olivia and Elliott do all the time where they kind of do like a good cop bad cop, they do sort of like a feminist misogynist thing together where like Elliot's like, Eh, you're on the rag, get out of here. Let me talk to my man, face to mace. Basically, what's crazy is when they first start questioning Carl, He's like, I'm a good man, I pay my taxes, I go to church, I volunteer, I'm a pillar of the community. It's like what, Like,
how can you be so delusional? And then he's like, they're like, how about your ex wife Marcy? And he's like, she's a shrieking, man hating, ball busting bitch, not too different from some of the reviews we've gotten for this podcast Lisa, and I'm like, oh no, she's a man hating ballbusting bitch after being married to a prince like you, How is that possible? Elliott kind of like, though gets tries to get on his side, is like, I know
the type. They get into a fight right in front of him, like it's obviously a game that they play. So Elliott appears like an ally and he's like, I want to talk to Kristin, like she's a good girl, she'd never say a word about me. And then he goes, where's Kristin? I want to see her, And Olivia goes and I'd like to see you castrated with a rusty
steak knife. Neither are going to happen, but we can both dream, which is very similar to a line she has in another episode where she goes and i'd like your balls in a blunder, But ain't life a bitch. That's like a very Olivia. It's a very Olivia delivery. And so then they get into a thing where Elliott's like, you need to take a sick day, you're on the rag and she goes, you touch me again, I'll see you for sexual her husband. These two are ahead of the times. So Olivia goes to talk to Kristen.
Well, first she she exits the interrogation room and Craigan acts like he just saw Yeah, whoa, guys, that was great, and she's like panting like She's like, yeah, that was incredible, yeah.
Because she loved where their chemistry comes from. His scenes like this where they act like they want to kill each other and then have makeup sex. Okay, so she says, So she goes to talk to Kristen in the tombs because she she's already like on her way to or she's in Rikers, like and she's like, I cannot let this girl spend a night in Rikers after what's happened to her. So she explains to Olivia how she gained
Carl's trust over time he started letting her out. She had to work up the courage to run, and when she got out, she didn't turn him in because she just wanted to kind of join the Hollander family. And she was so ashamed of her what her father did. And Olivia's like, why didn't you go home to your mom? And she's like, my mom died. My dad showed me the news clipping three years ago. And Olivia's like, that's a lie. Your mom is alive and has never stopped
looking for you. So they let her out. She reunites with her mom. Beautiful moment. Carl is romanded without bail, Olivia to give Kristin and Marcy the good news that he's not getting bail and Kristin has gone missing. She went to go quote unquote talk to someone and they're like, well, the only people she knows are the Holenders. So they go to the Holenders. The mom is like a terrible liar. They're like, have you seen Kristin? She's like, no, I haven't.
Like she's just like she really cannot lie, and then Erica is like, wait, we just saw her and Nikki together. What are you talking about? So then the mom admits that Nicki said she knew Kristin wasn't Heather, and that she better leave before the same thing happens to her that happened to the real Heather. So Erica's freaking out. She's like, mom, you knew that Nicki had something to do with Heather's disappearance, and the mom's like, I did, but not until much later. I didn't want to lose
two daughters. And I want to mention there's another episode like this on SVU where a girl comes back and says that she's this missing daughter. That turns out the brother killed her and the father helped cover it up because much like this woman, she didn't want he didn't want to lose both of his children, which is allegedly what people think happened in the Jambonnet Ramsey case. But this is for another day. So we want to know
where did Nicki kill Heather. So now they're at this rooftop where Nicki is making Kristin climb a ladder of some kind of like smokestack or chimney. I don't really know what the function of this thing is in New York City, and you've got to come up and see what happened to the real Heather. Is what Nicki's saying.
But does this happen because Kristin has been abused for so long that she doesn't know how to say no and she's going along with it Like I would punch Nicky in the face.
Yeah, it seems weird, like Nicki doesn't have a weapon or anything that's compelling Kristin to go with her. I don't really know what's up, how she's made.
Maybe she's always confusing and.
Nikki out like Kristen's kind of slight, and Nicky seems like she could really like cut a bitch, So I don't know. Maybe she's just worried she's gonna like beat the shit out of her. I don't really know what's going on, but she's like trying to get her up this ladder, and Nicki's basically like Heather caught me doing drugs. She was going to tell mom and dad, so she killed her. It just seems crazy.
Well, Also my favorite thing ever is you know Stable and Benson show up to the crime scene because it's their job, and then so is Heather's sister, Like what, I just love that they brought her along to this crime situation.
Yeah, so Nikki is about to like jump into the chimney. Again. I don't know what this chimney thing is. I don't know, well that immediately kill you. Where does it lead? I don't know what this thing is. But she's like, you've always hated me, the whole family has. And then they eventually talk her into coming down, and on her way down, she just kind of looks at Kristin and is like, the police gave up looking for Heather a long time ago,
why did you pick us? But in a way, it's good she did, because now Heather's murder is solved.
But where is the body?
Is it in this heat thing, in that like smoke stack thing?
Wow?
Yeah? Which at this point it's been four years, so it's probably like, you know, just decomposed bones, you know. But I'm just really glad that Kristen gets to be with her mother.
I know.
Well, wait until we get into the real If you guys think that was traumatic, wait until we get into the real crimes.
Louise and I want to mention the woman. I mean, great actors everywhere, but she just kills it like she's such a good actress.
The woman who plays feather slash Kristen. Yeah, yeah, and that was stranger. So hangout and we will be right back with the real life cases that inspire this episode.
So this episode is based on a couple crimes and one of them is the case of Frederick Borden Boredan.
I don't yees French, but.
And there's a documentary made about him in twenty twelve called The Impostor. Fun fact, I did see it on my twenty fifth birthday with my ex boyfriend, which is insane because like you're supposed to celebrate, and after we had sushi with my family, we went to watch crime documentary. That was the most insane thing I had ever seen.
It's truly unbelievable from top to bottom. But so in nineteen ninety four, a thirteen year old boy, Nicholas Barclay, went missing from San Antonio, Texas, and it didn't make the news, you know. The mom, Beverly says, it was news to us, but no one really cared. And the last day, what happened was he went to play basketball and he was supposed to be home by dinner and
he called home but his mother, Beverly, was asleep. His older brother Jason answered the phone and said, Mom's asleep, walk home, and that was the last anyone had seen Nicholas, So that was it. And then there's a sister, Carrie,
and she this was really interesting to me. I'd never thought about that, but she goes the emotions of when you find out something like this, she said, twenty four hours of crying, then you're worried, sick, and then you get mad, then get scared, and then you get empowered. So they really did try to find him, but they didn't really have big time support in any way. And he was a really cute, blonde, really fun kid, like all his whole movies seem like I would have loved
to babysit this kid. So then the documentary goes to three years and four months later after Nicholas Barclay's disappearance in Lenaris, Spain. The police get a call from a tourist couple that they found some teenage boy that is scared and alone and is just like fucked up and it seems like he needs help. The police come and they try to interact with this teenage boy and he's
not speaking. He's not talking, so they take the kid in. Now, this teen boy ends up being a twenty three year old man named Frederick, and it is not a kid at all, and he gives advice on how to be an impostor, and he's like, you just have to fully fucking believe it and make everyone else believe it, which seems like obvious advice, but basically like, you have to act like a fourteen year old damaged kid to be able to get away with it, and that's what he did.
And then further down in the documentary, I'll share it now, you find out there was no tourist couple. He called the police pretending to be this couple calling and saying they found a teen So already he's setting the cops up to believe there's a teen boy when it's clearly a twenty three year old man. So it's pretty fucking shocking.
And he has a long history of impersonating people. His mother was a single mother who kind of didn't really like him that much, and his dad was from Algeria and bounced, but his grandfather was super racist and was like, you need to abort this kid. So he just like grew up in not a very loving home and so from a young age pretended to be orphans and different
kids to get love from other people. So he would constantly pretend to be a kid to get into shelters and juvenile centers and just take identities of children to feel like he belonged. So that's kind of the background of this guy. Wow. Yeah, And he says, like with the cops, you never tell them what happened. You don't say anything to make them believe that something awful happen.
And I'd like to say I use this tactic once because when I was in college, I started stand up comedy and was like, I don't need college anymore, but I had to finish, and so I was like really bad at attending class. But my mom always told me never lie about health or like personal trauma. That's like bad energy in the world. So I had to get a pass on all of my absences. So I just basically made it seem like something horrific happened to me, but I didn't share what it was, and every teacher okay.
To except for one.
Should I. I don't know if this is if you guys think I'm a bad person now, But I had to.
Pass college.
And I didn't actually lie. I was just like, oh, things are hard, okay, So he's playing lots of games. He knows if he doesn't talk, they'll eventually have to put him in a shelter. And then after a while of him not talking and them not being able to identify him, they get fun. They get annoyed and they're like, listen, kid, if you don't tell us who you are, we're going to fingerprint you and we're going to find out. So
then he goes. He understands like, oh, if they fingerprint me, I will get caught.
I will go to jail. What am I going to do?
So he tells them that he's an American that ran away and he's willing to contact his family back in America, but since the time zone difference, they need to let him into the office at night and he will call his family alone, and he wants to be left alone.
And they agree to this. This whole story is unbelievable. This is the Spanish police.
Yes, yes, So they let him into the office at night, alone in the office, and he ends up calling a New York City police department saying.
Hey, I'm a cop in Spain.
We found a kid here that's American, and starts describing himself like can you help me find him, and they're like, well, we can't, but we will connect you to the Center for Missing and Exploited Children. So he pretends to be a police officer to get information from the center and they're like, it could be this kid. So then he goes send it over and then we can check if this.
Is the kid or not.
So they send him a photo of Nicholas Barclay and he goes, yep, we got him, thank you.
So now he's gonna be Nicholas Barclay.
He's a very quick thinker, pretty impressive, and so he finally admits like, I'm this kid. I was taken into a sex slavery ring and I'm kind of scared to call back home, but this is my sister, and let's see what happens. So Special Agent Nancy B. Fisher, who I'm kind of obsessed with, she's in the FBI in San Antonio and she works there from nineteen seventy eight to two thousand and four.
Wow, that's impressive, like twenty six years.
Yeah. Wow, your math skills are even more impressive. I can't believe you did that. But yeah, so she was like, oh, I have to interview him asap. As soon as he gets back from America, she says, it's super rare to find a kid that's me for years. Usually they're never found or they're found dead, so and to be found in a different country like that rarely happens, and so they needed to see what happened to this child. Then he gets a colored photo of the boy, and this
kid is blonde, blue eyes. He's brunette, brown eyes, and he's like, fuck, fuck funk, what am I gonna do? So he ran away and wanted to go hitchhike, and then the people that picked him up from hitchhiking were American authorities that were there to help with the case. So he ends up getting picked up by an agent that.
Was like, are you Nicholas.
We've been looking for you. So his plan goes awry. But the saving grace with this case is Nicholas had a gap in his teeth, and so does this guy. So the gap is like so instrumental. He ends up dyeing his hair blonde. And Nicholas, who is thirteen, had tattoos, so he had a girl in the shelter tattoo him, so they had similar tattoos. The sister meets him and it is like, you look like uncle Pat, I love you. And then he's like covered up. He looks like the
invisible man. I mean he's wearing glasses, hoods, scarves, like so covered up. But the sister is so happy to see him and starts showing him tons of photos.
Like do you remember this? Do you remember this? This is your mother? Remember remember remember? Yeah, So showing him.
All these photos, and you know, the sister says, he was really quiet, he was really different. He held back, he was whispering. But you know, he was tortured for four years. What do you expect. You don't expect to see the same person. So the judge and the police and the Spain people don't believe this, but the Americans and the sister are like, no, we do. So the Spain people test him and show him photos from his life. And because the sister Carrie showed the photos, he knew.
So he got four out of the five photos correct and named everybody. And so by that point they're like, okay, this is obviously Nicholas Barclay. So they declared him a citizen, gave him a passport and flew hi him on over And the thing is in the hotel overnight. He thought, Okay, I have a passport. I can do whatever I want. Now, I can run away and live my life. But then this yearning for love and family, and he was like, this is obviously a loving family that I can be with.
Like they flew all the way over here to come get me, and this is a small, all town vibe, like she has never been out of the side of the country.
She this was her first time flying like this.
Okay. So he shows up to San Antonio. The family meets him. They're all like, Okay, he's quiet and weird, but we don't know what's happened to him. We're just happy to have him back. And then he is very disappointed because he's in San Antonio, Texas. So he's like, I'm going to America, and he of course expected city life and metropolitan people and everything, and then he's just in Texas.
And is like, what the fuck is going on?
So he arrives at the house and one of the fears he has is that the real Nicholas will come back, and that's obviously gonna fuck them over. They wanted him to have a normal routine, so they watched movies lunch dinner, and they really like helped him out. The only thing that's weird is Jason, the brother didn't really look at him, came to visit and just said good luck and then left. Uh. And so that's his only interaction with his brother, Jason, who is the person that took the phone call from
Nicholas the last moments that he was left alive. So a little shady. So November fourth, nineteen ninety seven, the FBI lady meets him to do the first interview and get accounts of everything, and she immediately is like, this man has a shadow of a beard.
This is what is going on. He is not a young teen.
He was very nervous and uncomfortable. And then at this point he's supposed to be sixteen, Yeah, okay, well four yr yeah, seventeen sixteen, seventeen seventeen, yeah, but he's really twenty three. And then the story he claims, I hope no one is living through this kind of horrendous stuff like but he says it's a military sex ring, that the military took him, that the military put him in a van and a plane. He was chloroformed all the time.
He was subjected to high ranking military sexual abuse, raped, molested, broke his hands, they burnt him, he had to eat insects. His foot was broken, He was experimented on. They put needles in his eyes and that's why his eye color changed, because they needed to change his eye color so he wouldn't be identified. They used torture techniques on him with headphones, screaming, yelling.
If he spoke English, he was beaten, which is why he had this accent because everyone's like, why is he speaking in a French accent?
What's going on?
And so he came up with this idea that if he spoke English they would beat him, and that's why he speaks so weird now. They put solutions in his eye and then at one point he was able to run and he just like ran, ran, ran, and ran away, and like he should be a writer on SVU.
Yeah, I was gonna say that literally sounds like he just watched a marathon of SVU on USA and then was like, Okay, here's what happened to me.
So then the FBI was very shaken by this account and said normal people don't come up with this stuff. And he did have cigarette burns and broken limbs and he had all.
Of these things.
So he was like, fuck, yeah, this is the last border I win. So they told him do not go on the news, do not say any of this because we need to catch these people that didn't exchange.
I am intrigued, beyond intrigued, like I know nothing about this story. It's so wild.
So then he ends up going on the news because to him, he goes, if I'm on the news saying I'm Nicholas, it makes it more and more real. Yes, So he totally defies their orders and goes on the news. And Charlie Parker, who I want to marry, is a private investigator who is like not, I don't believe any of this. He makes it a personal mission to investigate
this case. So then the PI was like, Okay, the eyes are different colors, and to me, it's like you don't even have to be that talented of a to realize that, Like, what the fuck is going on with everybody? And then he learned this tip from Scotland Yard that they use this ears like for a long time they used ears to identify people because ears don't change and
ears are just as good as a fingerprint. So he called the FBI Lady he got a photo and basically the ears didn't match, so he knows that this is blowney. So the PI calls the FBI woman and but that Nancy is like, but why would a family take in a stranger? You know, Okay, that's not him, But that's really fucking weird that this family would take in someone that is clearly not Nicholas. But he goes to high school, he starts his new American life, and the PI, God
bless him. He thinks this is a spy, that he's going to bomb everyone, and he is like an intelligence person that's here to do terrorism. So they bring him to Houston with this new information under the guise of a forensic interview to help him with his trauma, but really it's more investigative.
And Bruce D.
Perry is an MD and PhD at the Texas Children's Hospital.
He knew immediately something was wrong.
He goes, this kid did not experience these things because he is not going through the normal physiological change that happens in a person when they talk about something this traumatic. And I think that's why Olivia Benson in the episode knew something happened to fake Heather because she was going through those physiological changes when describing the trauma, like, you can't really fake those, So that's why she knew something
was up. He also was like, no native speaker would ever have an accent.
Okay, like paiging Hilaria Baldwin, paiging Hilaria Baldwin, Like, he goes, even if you, like we're an English speaker, went somewhere else, you could always speak English.
Like, the fact that he didn't know what was up is very strange. So a full investigation starts based on this information. I mean, if you can believe it, this is where it gets. It's even more wild. So the FBI contacts the family and she goes, hey, you don't even have to show up at the airport. This is not Nicholas. This is a fraudulent man. We will take care of it. We'll pretend everything's normal, but don't show up to the airport. They land, Carrie is at the airport.
Who's Carrie?
The sister?
The sister Sorry, no, it's fine, so the sister.
So the FBI lady Nancy's like, hey, Carrie, this isn't your brother. This is a strange man. You don't have to come get him. Don't come to the airport. Carrie, the sister, shows up at the airport anyways to pick up this man that the FBI has told her is not her fucking brother. What is going on? So Nancy is like calling the state's attorney office, like I don't even know what to do in this situation. So they're like,
just let her go, we'll figure stuff out. And Carrie in the documentary's like, I don't really remember her saying that, Okay, the PI could not let it go. The pi's doing lots of stuff, lots of work, and he's talking to the neighbors, and the neighbors say that that family was pretty fucked up. The cops would be called two to three times a week. There was fighting, screaming, and there was always issues. So the FBI lady is like, great, I'll get DNA.
Yeah, that's what I don't understand from the beginning, why they didn't just test this kid's DNA to see if it's like matches the mom or the dad.
I don't think their brain was like, this has never happened before. Yeah, this is the first case of its kind where someone was able to impersonate a child and get access and citizenship into this country. Yeah, so like this is not you know, it's set a precedent. I'm sure they're going to handle these things different, but they don't really assume it. So the fbilady goes to the house to talk to the mom Beverly, and it's like, hey, we're going to get the DNA. That's not your son.
She refuses, like she becomes hostile. The FBI lady says that she's laid down and was like, absolutely not, I refuse and the mom and the doc is like, I don't remember that. So like there's a lot of forgetting here, a lot of amnesia going on. And they didn't need to prove who he was, Like that's what family is saying. They're like, we don't need to prove who he is.
We know who he is. This is Nicholas.
So it changed from a grieving family to something suspicious, because why would you let a stranger to your home unless you had something to hide?
What are they fucking hiding?
So after Beverly refused the blood sample, suddenly the impostor was like, oh, they killed Nicholas and I'm in danger. Like now I'm not scared. Nicholas is gonna come back, like this is fucking twisted. They know I'm not Nicholas and they don't care, and they're pretending that they like me. So now he becomes scared because he's like, who are these fucking creeps? And then he suddenly is like, oh,
she showed me all the photos of the family. She set me up for all this, like you know, she prepped me for pretending to be the brother and decided you're going to be my brother. So he's like, whoa, they're even bigger liars than me, which is like, hold your horses, your psycho. So we get news that, like Jason, this older brother is a bum and a drug addict and only cared about himself and this is from Nicholas's
old childhood friend. We get this information and then what's interesting, the PI noticed that a couple months after Nicholas's disappearance, Jason called the police and said that Nicholas tried to break into the house. And the PI said that this happens all the time, where if like you killed somebody, you'll call the cops to like have fake sightings. So it seems like that person is still alive. So anyways, Frederick's like they fucking killed someone.
This is crazy. I don't want to do this.
The FBI Lady Nancy is like, I need to get a search warrant because the mom and sister and cooperating and we need DNA and Prince. The PI starts tailing him, following him, and in March nineteen ninety eight, Madrid called and identified the Prince and yeah, it's a fucking guy that's wanted by Interpol and his name is Frederick Baudin. Also he agrees to meet the PI for pancakes, so he starts talking to him, and Frederick to the PI goes, I'm not Nicholas, and you fucking know it, and straight
up is like you know what's going on here? And he had a pattern of false identity. They figure everything else. There's like a two minute montage of all his identities. At this point he is faked being like around forty people.
Jeez.
Yeah. So March fourth, nineteen ninety eight, the story broke. He got arrested and he's the only person in US history, like I said to him, personate a child like that. And then the sister is like, I'm sad, and then it's like where's Nicholas And then it's also like, how can I be so stupid that I thought this was Nicholas? So the impostor calls the San Antonio police and says they killed him, like you need to open this investigation, and everyone's like yeah, but he's great, Like why are
we believing him? So then it's kind of fucked up, and basically the investigation goes nowhere. There's no evidence about Nicholas. There's no evidence that the mom knew or the mom helped, or that Jason did it. I think that Jason killed his brother. I do, But Jason ended up overdosing, leaving a drug rehabilitation center and overdosing. So he's dead and the family thinks that they're making him the scapegoat because he can't defend himself. But it's like he called you,
you knew where he was. He never arrived again. You know, this is what they think. The movie wants you to think, is that Jason did it. So it's kind of tough. Okay, So he's in jail. He gets six years, and this is my favorite, most insane thing. He continued to scam people on a phone in his cell. What why is happening?
He's own bone in their cell.
There's videos of him in his cell with his own payphone calling people and ruining people's lives and calling parents of missing children, lying saying that they found him, and no one is stopping him. Like, you have to watch the end of this documentary. He is legit in a prison cell, terrorizing parents and no one is stopping him. I'm like, how does this happen? But what pisses me off the most is a woman saw him on tea and was like, I'm going to marry that man, and
he got married and had five children. I'm just like, why can I not find love in my life and this lunatic? Yeah? This woman Isabelle, was like I felt bad for his story and I just wanted to be with him. And so he's the father of five children.
Jesus.
So after he got out of jail, he got deported and immediately started faking being other people.
He was a missing fourteen year old boy. But at this point in two thousand and three, isn't he like thirty three years old?
Oh?
Yeah?
Point or like receding hairline. The other stuff I watched on it, they're very shady. They're like, this fucker is balding and he's pretending to be children. But yeah, and then I read that he had a YouTube channel, and I was like, oh my god, everything, this is the best.
I can't wait.
And there's no vlogs, there's no content, so I was very upset. That's pretty much it. And then I don't know.
If he's divorced or not.
He's obviously a liar and that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Oh and then wait, so then he pretended to be one other person, Reuben Sanchez Espinoza, at a youth shelter and lived there and then ended up going to college as this kid. And then a representative of the college saw him on the news and was like, holy shit. So like he got caught again pretending to be someone in college and served a six month long conditional term.
That's really it's just the psychology of that, of like never being able to be yourself and having to always be someone else's really wild. But of course in this Asview episode, she was not quite so diabolical. She was just trying to, you know, fit in after she had a horrible trauma, which is based off of the one of the most horrible cases I've ever heard. It's literally stuck with me for years. It's complete nightmare.
Fuel No, and I need to say, Kara mentions this constantly. You mentioned this case all the time.
It's just so disgusting and horrible that like, I'm going to take you through it really quickly, and it's just really, really awful. It's the Joseph and Elizabeth Fritzel case. Joseph Fritz as an Austrian man who kept his own daughter imprisoned in his basement for twenty four years, repeatedly raping her and fathering seven children with her. So how did he get away with this? How did he do this? In nineteen seventy seven, when Elizabeth was eleven, he started
sexually abusing her. The thing is he had five daughters and two sons with his wife, and I tried to find out whether he had assaulted any of his other children, but I couldn't find anything. And apparently he just had a real thing for Elizabeth because she was very strong willed and spirited. And like they say that people like sociopaths, psychopaths have more fun breaking a strong willed person's spirit.
So in nineteen eighty one, nineteen eighty two, he starts to turn a hidden portion of his basement into a
prison cell. In nineteen eighty three, when Elizabeth is seventeen, she runs away from home, but much like I mentioned with this, Jeffrey Dahmer Caith police find her within three weeks and return her to her parents, and sadly, this is helpful later to Joseph in painting her as this troubled teen who had run away before, even though she's running away from her father who has been repeatedly abusing
her since she was eleven. So one day in nineteen eighty four, when she's eighteen, he lures her into the basement to help him put up a door to the basement, and once she helps him put up this door, he chloroforms her locks her in there, which is where the episode I think gets a page out of this chloroform situation, and he convinces his wife and everyone else in their lives that she has run off and joined a cult, and he says, I had to create a place where
I could keep Elizabeth by force if necessary, away from the outside world. She did not adhere to rules anymore. She would spend whole nights in dingybars, drinking alcohol and smoking. I only tried to pull her out of that misery, so he thinks he's doing a good thing here. And keep in mind this man grew up in the time of the Nazis. And there also was another similar kidnapping like this in Austria, And there's an interesting New York Times article about how sort of Nazi culture influenced both
of these kidnappings. But after he kidnaps Elizabeth into the basement, she's there for four years. She sees no other human being except for her a rapist father. Sometimes he would leave her without food or electricity to punish her, just like in the show up to ten Days in Darkness. Once he left her, her mother, Rose Marie, which is too close for comfort to my mother's name, allegedly had no idea like Apparently the basement was Joseph's area where
he worked on projects. He was an engineer, like he did work. No one ever went down there or questioned why he would go down there. This man was so ballsy that he even rented rooms out in his home. There was one guy that rented a room in this house for twelve years who said he heard noises coming from the basement, But was always told, oh, it's old pipes and stuff, so this is like horrific, horrific. So then in nineteen eighty eight, she gives birth to her
first child, Kirsten. Kirsten ends up in the basement until she is nineteen. In nineteen ninety she gives worth to Stefan. Stefan is in the basement until he's seventeen. And now this kid has trouble walking because he ends up at full height at seventeen. He's five to eight and the room is only five foot six, so he has to walk hunched over all the time. And apparently all of them had to spend a lot of time lying down because the room is so small and like physically short.
In nineteen ninety two, she gives birth to Lisa, but after five months, Joseph takes Lisa and leaves her upstairs outside of the home in a cardboard box, staging it to seem like Elizabeth left the baby there because her cult wouldn't allow babies. Okay, He does the same thing to a baby named Monica, born in nineteen ninety four, and then in nineteen ninety six, Elizabeth gives birth to
twin boys. One dies, Michael, dies and after three days and Fritzel cremates the body, and the surviving twin, Alexander, is also taken upstairs at fifteen months old and like discovered and they call these children foundlings, like their children that have been abandoned. And so the notes are that the notes are from Elizabeth and are like, please take care of my baby, and they're in her handwriting because he's forced her to write them. Oh my god. Yeah,
So basically he's also playing god. He's deciding which of these children gets to come upstairs and live a quote unquote normal life with him and his wife, and who has to stay down below. So he's also raping his dogs in front of his grandchild, in front of his children, in front of his children and grandchildren. Yes, so then if the final child is born in two thousand and two, Felix, but he has to stay in the basement because at
this point Rosemarie cannot handle any more children. Keep in mind, this woman has already raised seven of her own children. Now she's taking in these three quote unquote founding children that are her grandchildren. But social services is involved in this. Social services is there like approving them to have these children like they like they officially adopt these children. It's insane. So in two thousand and eight is when this thing
fucking blows up. Finally, thank god, Joseph allows the extremely ill Kirsten, who is nineteen, to be taken to a local hospital. It's later believed she was suffering from kidney failure. Her appearance and everything that's going on with her like a severe SEVERER vitamin D deficiency. I would imagine that makes the hospital kind of suspicious that they're like, we really need to talk to her mother, we need to know more about what's going on with her, and like
did she a band? Because he told everyone that he just found Kirk Kirsten leaning up against his house and that she was abandoned by the mother. So eventually, I guess he probably realizes that this whole house of cards is about to come falling down on him, because he eventually brings Elizabeth to the hospital as well, and the
doctors because they want more information. Elizabeth's teeth are like wroughten out, like she hasn't been outside in twenty four years, like he has never let her out, so it's obviously very alarming. He ended up releasing Elizabeth as well as
Stefan and Felix too when this whole hospital thing went down. So, after Elizabeth has promised that she never has to see her father ever again, she gives a two hour video account of what has happened, and she starts it by saying, no one will ever believe me, which is wild, and luckily the world did believe her, because this man is
a full monster. So two thousand and nine, after a four day trial, right before his seventy fourth birthday, Fritzel pleaded guilty to the charges of murder by negligence of his son Michael, the one the twin who did not survive, as well as decades of enslavement incestr I mean he raped her three thousand times or more. They say, like it's fucking horrific, false imprisonment, coercion, everything, And he is sentenced to life imprisonment in a psychiatric institution. But it's
like a psychiatric jail in Austria. It's supposed to be pretty tough. Like I don't think it's I don't think he's in a white, padded room, but I think that it's it's probably somewhere in between what we think of as like a psychiatric facility and a prison here. And what's insane insane is that Fritzl was previously imprisoned for breaking into a woman's house and raping her at knife point. So he was known for that, he had a record, and he was known for indecent exposure, and he served
a twelve months of an eighteen month prison sentence. Again, I mean, what is happening with these prison sentences? That is not enough for raping someone a knife point. But in accordance to us with Austrian law, his criminal record was expunged after fifteen years. So as a result, twenty five years later when he applied to adopt all these children, the social service authorities did not know about his criminal history. Really think that you should ever have anything expunge that's
a sexual assault, but okay. He had apparently a very fucked up relationship with his mother, who beat him and called him satan. And eventually later in life, his mother moved in with him and his wife into the basement and he locked her in the attic and bricked up her window, telling neighbors she had died, and kept her locked up until her death in nineteen eighty. And it's unknown how long he had his mother locked up, but some newspapers have speculated it's twenty years.
And what's missus Fritzl's Like she didn't know the mom was in the attic. She never asked about these babies. Is she being abused by what the fuck?
I mean, I'm sure in some way he had some kind of like hold over her, But the basement was just his area, and like she never went down there, and she thought her daughter ran away to a cult. I mean, she says, she's not quoted. They nobody ever talks to her in any of the interviews, Like, no one ever has gotten to talk to her, and she
Elizabeth had a really hard time with her. They were staying in a facility together, all getting therapy, and then I think she told the mother to leave because I I think she was having a really hard time like swallowing her version of the story. But they have since, I think formed a relationship and the children do see their grandmother. And this guy, is he dead already or what? No, he's still in jail.
Good.
He at first tried to argue that this was consensual sex with his daughter and that he wasn't a monster, and saying, oh but he would bring the children's stuffed animals, and once he even brought a Christmas tree down to the basement. And it's just like really gross. And in our sources there are photos of the downstairs, like it's a little bit more like how you were saying before, Lisa, like why would you not kind of make it nice.
I'm not saying it's nice in any way. But there is a toilet, there is a tub like it wasn't a mattress on a floor, and like a bucket. So I guess they just kind of got used to it. They had a television, they had a radio, like they I don't know. I guess that's how they survived. Nobody understands how Elizabeth didn't go insane, Like nobody can understand how that happened. I had one child in a hospital. I really cannot imagine having seven down a fucking basement.
It's just really really horrific. But I have to mention, like the the sliver sliver of a silver lining kind of happy ending. Not happy ending. But Elizabeth has had extensive therapy, as have all her children. She lives with all of her children. They got new identities, They moved to a tiny village in northern Austria. And this is what I think is so nice. The entire village knows who they are and protects them. Like if reporters come, they're like, get out of here. No one wants to
talk to you. Like they have like full security around their house with like CCTV and everything. But also if anybody just kind of wanders into the town and finds out where they are, this town has like got it on lock. And Elizabeth has fallen in love with a security guard who was originally hired to protect her. He's twenty three years younger than her and get it girl, And she got her license and loves to go shopping.
And Joseph had a bunch of his teeth knocked out while he was in a prison brawl because a bunch of the inmates made a fake dating for him on a German dating app dating profile. So I thought that was pretty funny, and I'm happy that he's in jail and toothless. And that is the story of Elizabeth and Joseph Fritzel. It's horrific.
Yeah, it's just like obviously the actions are all so fucked, but also what's so daunting is the.
Years a lot. Yeah, it's just it's so long. I mean, we've there have been stories of like this other girl in Austria was kidnapped. I believe she was in a in a basement situation for like six or eight years, and like Elizabeth Smart was kept for such and such a moun time of twenty four years and having seven children, and then some of these children were raised with no sunlight, like they said. Little Felix like he luckily was so young. I think he was born in O two and got out.
He was like five or six when they got him out, so he doesn't even remember that much of the basement. And he just was like pressing his nose against the glass, like looking at the stars when they got him out, because he had just never seen anything like it. And what was the Nazi connection, Well, they were just seeing like these men that grew up in a Nazi time like felt the sort ethnic cleansing or like what he
felt like, Oh, my daughter is unhelpable. She's a whore, and like she carouses with alcohol like I need to. It's my job to keep her locked up and stop her from being part of the regular world, do you know what I mean? It's like to me, it feels like it's just like an ideological similarity. It's not like Nazi said you should do this, but you know, just you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm I'm glad that she has therapy, and I'm assuming like the government gives her money, and yeah, I have a feeling that like because she's been provided security and the seat, and like I have a feeling that the government just like literally gives her a stipend and like they're all covered and that no one heard her give birth.
It's really wild. I mean he had like you can see diagrams of like it was like his workshop, and then it was like behind the workshop, like where the room was created. And eventually she begged to have the place expanded. She's like, I have four people down here, like, can we have more space? And he let them expand it, but they had to dig in the dirt with their own hands. Like he's like, honestly, truly, I don't think I've heard of a fucking worst criminal. He's so awful. Yeah,
well thanks for that, You're welcome. I'm just happy that they're all like in this village living together and they get to go outside and kind of hopefully live happy rest of their lives after what's happened to them. Yeah, but we're going to have a very talented guest as soon as we come back. Liza. I'm so excited for our guest today. She has run the gamut of crime shows. She's been on Castle, We've seen her on Scandal, We've seen her on Criminal Minds, and most recently, she was
on ABC's Marvels. In Humans, you guys know her as Heather Hollander slash Kristin Muslik. Please stay tuned for our interview with Ellen Woglam. Tell us how it came about, Like, did you audition for this part? Like we like Lisa was saying, like we do so many like comedy auditions, the two of us that like we never have to like cry on cue or anything like that, So like no, they actually it was.
Well that's going to make me sound way cooler than I am. But it was a straight offer.
Oh okay, okay, I know only offer only.
I have a feeling that's just the way they operate. I don't think that was like personal to me, but I had done a lot of I think I had done.
Maybe they had seen a I think I did like a finale of Cold Case or something where there was a lot of crying. So it was a straight offer, which was surprising, and then yeah, I went to New York. And but also it's also kind of nerve wracking, and that happens because since you have an auditioned, you don't know what I mean.
I would prefer straight offer anytime, but but you don't know that, like what you're.
Doing is what they responded to and they like, but that I feel like is more for comedy.
It's harder with that. Comedy is so much it's just a different muscle.
And so with comedy, I feel like if it's a straight off, you don't know if like they thought you were funny, You're like, well, I know, we haven't. You know, I don't know what you're responding to.
We were looking at your impressive resume and like you were really like a crime show girl leading up to SVU, like you had done Criminal Lines and CSI and Cold Case. So maybe I just saw you and all that stuff and we're like that girl can cry.
Well.
And since then you've done some more Dick Wolf too.
Yeah, Chicago Fire and Chicago p D. Yeah, they've been they've been good to me.
How do the sets differ.
Well, you're in Chicago, right, you want to know that was so you can't swear.
You can swear, you can swear, say whatever you want.
Well, now, it was so fucking cold that like you'd be outside wearing I think we were trying to do fall and it was in.
The middle of winter in Chicago for Chicago.
Fire and PD and so I'm in a tiny like barely jacket and crying and you're just like, this is their icicles.
Like it was just so hard to do. So that was hard. Chicago filming outside in that winter was hard.
New York was We were indoors for most of it, and it was just an amazing experience. I remember, you know, Mariska, I don't know at that point how many seasons they had done.
It was a lot.
And she still went into work every day excited about the work, committed to the work, like engaged, and you know, sometimes you'll go on sets, especially if you're doing a guest.
Star, you're kind of a visitor, and that was not the vibe at all.
It was super collaborative and so kind to all the cast and crew, and it really sets a precedent for just the tone on set, and I remember being so young.
And there's been a couple other experiences.
One was I did a series we only were on for a year but called Outlaw with Jimmy Smith's and he was very similar in that he you know, when you're number one on the call sheet, you really set the tone for how everything goes. And I just remember watching both Mariska and Jimmy and going, That's how I'd want to be if ever I was number one, Like,
That's how I'd want to conduct myself. Like, you know, it was a mix a great She's also really funny, so a great mix of you know, people joking and laughing and a lot of love, but also extremely professional when it needs to be professional.
So it was really that episode with all.
The I mean, I love all the jobs I've done and grateful for all of them, but that's the one when people ask what was your favorite job that you've done?
Is definitely that SVU Also because it was there was meat there, so it was fun to do.
Yeah, your character was multi multi layered for sure. Yeah, and you had to scream at Marishka like.
What was that like?
You had to just like fully be like get out of here. I don't want to talk to you.
And I know that's I hate whatever I have to.
I think I revisited that just because this and I hadn't seen any of the episode in so long, and I was, you know, watching your face.
You're like, oh god, that's my crease. When I do that, it's like, oh, it's great.
She was. So we became friendly afterwards, and like I would go to dinner at her house, you know when if I was in town.
She really took me under her wing. So it was great.
That's a dream to be a's house for Yeah.
Wow.
When the episode came out, did you watch it with friends and family? Was it a party or is it not? Because the subject matter is so fucked up?
Like, oh no, what happens?
I think by that point that subject matter it got to point I had done so many of those, like.
Rape my tones.
It's a laughing matter, but I just had and then I think the last one I did was Scandal.
Afterwards, I was like, Okay, this is getting a little like, let's put it today. But my friends watched it.
In that opening scene where the mom Tess Harper, who actually played she played my mom on a series I did called Crash as well.
So when she opened the door and I'm like, you don't remember me?
Do you?
My friend?
So that was really funny anytime then, like when they would come over and I'd open the door, they'd be like, you don't remember me?
Well that scene I've always been curious when you lift your hand like shocked, like you don't remember me, and the tattoo obviously the giveaway was that naturally did.
You did you know? Did the director tell you to do that?
Was? It was like, could you win?
Could you put your hand like right here where the cameras, we can get that tattoo and make it like you normally put your hand with.
A tattoo across your face and say you don't remember me?
Do you?
You don't remember me? You're like, I have a hair muddling green? No, it seems natural and contest. Sure, So wait, were you a brunette back then?
No, that's a wig?
Okay we thought we knew it, Yeah, we knew yeah, And.
They they put my hair in braids underneath that wig so tight that you just be on so much at of them all.
Day because the the headaches because like you guys at home cannot see her. But she has this beautiful mane of blonde tresses that are very like wavy and curly, and that is not what we saw on that episode. No, it was definitely like a brown with like some jagged bangs, and so I was like, I wonder if that was her real hair. Good to know?
Good.
Yeah, You've worked a bunch in New York and LA and as you said, Chicago, like do you have a preference? Do you like La better just because you live here?
And now I love shooting on location because I love hotels.
In my love room service, Yeah, girl, after ours to order?
Oh well, I always ordered two lattes in the morning just because I once enough and then I don't know my order, probably a burger.
I remember when I was in Chicago doing Chicago PD and Fire, they put me up at the I think it was the Ritz, And so that's paid for, but room services and paid for like your room is paid for, but any incidental you have to cover. And so every morning they really get you too, because they were like, would you like coffee, miss Walk And I was like, of course.
Down in the lobby.
And then when I went to go check out, they gave me, well, I thought it was a complimentary coffee, and they gave me the bell and I remember like.
Getting to and I was like, oh, I actually really can't afford to stay here.
How much was it a thousand dollars? Oh my god?
Because you also have to eat rooms of over stuck because you'll get home late and restaurants are right open.
So I got room service and they brought this soup and it was the most ridiculous if I've ever seen. It was in like a coffee creamer that then the guy like poured into a bowl, and it was so small and so expensive, and I remember just looking.
At the guy and I was like really, and he was like, I mean he need too, because it was just it was comically small.
A thousand dollars is would that's it?
That's definitely a tear wrenching bill to get. I would cry.
Yeah, I did.
I was like, I you know, so that's the things you say, these really nice hotels.
But then you know, I guess then you just cross your finger that they play that episode a bunch of times and that your residuals will pay for the.
Yeah, so everyone go stream that episode like a lot.
Because wait, so you have already you've said you've played like this victim a million times. But like, if you were to get a call back to SVU, like, what would you want them to be calling you into play like lawyer, judge, like judge, a mom, like somebody out like a different kind of criminal.
Oh that's a good question. Let's pitch it too.
Yeah, well we're hoping, we're hoping you're listening.
Maybe i'd be the bad guy. Oh I've never.
Played the bad guy because you just don't look like a bad guy. You look like such a nice person. But that's always the funnest little twist, isn't it.
Well, not to insult you, but you could be like the woman that what's her name for Epstein's woman Gallain. Yeah, yeah, I don't, but you can be the decoy or the person that does the because you're because you're not suspicious or whatever.
That's a good idea.
Okay, thank you.
I don't know if you would be offended. You look like you would trap when he's getting maxwell energy from you.
I feel like you're really good at grooming young girl. Yeah, that's a good one. Something like that.
Post mortem time, and I do want to give us props. I think we've learned that we're incredible at realizing if someone's wearing a wig or not. So I don't know if it's our drag race viewing or what, but we're fucking on it.
I have to say, Lisa, I think that's probably more you. I did think hers was a wig. But I've recently been very much awoken to the fact that I believe that so many actresses it's their real hair, such as Nicole Kidman in the Undoing, And many of my gay male friends are like, you're insane. You've never seen Nicole Kidman's real hair, And I'm like, you're right. I don't know why why I think she has this beautiful mane of red hair.
Anyway, someone tweeted, and I agree, They're like, can Nicole Kidman do one movie in her real accent?
Like why can't we get one Australian part from her?
Yeah?
I just don't understand that.
She's not that great at an American so I think we should just let her live. But anyway, this obviously these crimes were horrific, this episode is horrific. I would say what I've learned is that if your long last sister comes home and tells you that she's been a sex slave for six years. Why don't you not worry about how many showers she's taking. Why don't you just let her take as many showers as she wants and don't worry about the water bill?
Niki. Also, I learned never let your spouse have a room or a dungeon or a place that you do not inspect constantly.
Thank you, thank you.
This is my tool shop. I'll be the judge of what.
This is my primary area. You know what I was wondering too, actually thinking back on it, How did that woman not realize how much food was going missing? Like he was feeding five people down in that base, four people down in that I don't anyway. I've also learned, like for as well as from so many cases that we've covered, Like women are so fucking strong and resilient, it's insane. Like I truly don't think.
I don't know.
Show me a story of a man being held captive in a basement for twenty four years and being forced to give birth to children with their own parent, and how they can come out of it and try to make a happy life for themselves. I just don't think you're gonna see it. I think most men would have gone insane by then. That's a really good one. Yeah, Like, I just think women are so strong and like I just I like I said, I had one baby in
a hospital. This woman had seven babies in a dungeon. Like, she's extremely strong.
Also, we learn this almost every week, but that Marishka is incredible to everybody.
So yeah, a never ending lesson. Yeah, oh yeah, don't buy the New York Posts. Sex Slave in the City is not a pennycute title. Not that New York Post ever wrote that, but it's clearly based on the New York Post.
They've done lots of bad things. You just told me.
Recently they like outed, Yeah, outed an AMC who had an OnlyFans. Yeah, they're great, Like, how is that even news?
Motherfucker? We're in a recession. Like, yeah, people want money and you gotta do what you gotta do.
Yeah, if you need like newspaper to like scrape up your dog shit, then you can buy the Post. But that's it.
No one is using newspaper to pick up dog shit. I don't know.
I don't have a dog. It's not going to protect you.
I don't have a dog.
I don't know how it works.
Yeah. Also, you know this isn't right, but if you have someone comes to your home claiming to be a miss you, you can't trust them. Get a DNA test immediately. Like, I don't know.
That's the thing that's wild about this case you took us through is that it was in the nineties, and like you could have easily just been like, okay, great, left. We could just get a droplet of your blood to compare it against his, and we'll be on our way, Like just to even or to compare it even against the mothers, to make sure that you're a child of the mother.
Yeah, just don't take in loose strangers. Also, don't allow people to have phones in their jail cells when they're known to call and commit crimes.
That was on that Chameleon podcast. I was telling you about two This guy was running scams out of jail too. Like, I don't understand how people have all this access to internet and technology and jail.
But well, in SVU, I've learned that sometimes the real big gangs are run from the prisons, and like the outside gang is actually just taking orders from the inside prison stuff.
That's a sure.
We've learned that through episodes. Throughout time, we learn a lot from this show. Can I add one thing that I learned? Yes, if you're going to come back as another human being, you don't have to look anything like them.
Yeah, you can just impersonate someone with different air. You have a news job, just get a cheesy tattoo and you can be that person.
But actually to spin that in a good way, you know, the impostor guy from the doc, he was very much like you just have to believe it and convince people. And maybe we could flip that in a positive way of like when you go to job interviews or go out for an opportunity, Oh yeah, bake it till you make it, baby, Like you got to convince people that you deserve these jobs and opportunities and moments, and like.
Yeah, yeah, I think we can all take a life lesson from an impostor.
For sure, go flirt with someone you thinks out of your league and be like convince them that no, you're gonna date me, You're worth it.
Yeah, so just to spend some criminal knowledge. Okay, now it is time for what would sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment where we direct you guys to resources, articles, organizations that touch on the topics that we discussed in today's episode. So this week we are going to be shouting out the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Their website is Missingkids dot org. You can donate, you can find resources on getting help, and find out a lot about their work and education at this website, and it's really a great organization, So please head on over to Missingkids dot org for more.
Next week were covering the episode Broken Rhyme, Season eighteen, episode six. You can catch all the episodes on Hulu and peacock. And if you'd like to get to know us more in our comedic stylings, we do both have comedy albums out Kara Klinks is called Undefeated and one of the best album covers out there, and my album is called Glitter Cheese and my titties are out on the cover, so you know, just for that, Yeah, listen to our albums.
Thank you so much, and we'll see you next week. Bye bye.
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