Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies.
These episodes are based on. These are our stories. Done Done, Hi, and Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger. We talk SVU week talk crimes. We have guests, celebs. It's really a jam packed, amazing podcast and we love that you listen to it. What's that bitch? I have not been in the country for over three weeks.
I'm back. I'm back in New York.
Had an aggressive cab driver and I feel right at home where I belong.
I like it.
But he had the worst toenails I'd ever seen, and it might haunt me forever.
I'm sorry, How did you see your cab driver's toenails? Well, he put my bag in the car, obviously my bag is and he was wearing a man and he was wearing a mandle. He was wearing a mandles and it was like some of the it was the worst. It was. It's gonna haunt me forever. I can't I really can't handle a bad toe. I really really can't, Like, I just like.
Put on a clog, sir, what are you doing? Yeah, it's like a nylon.
I don't know. It was crumbling in front of my eyes. My husband gets pedicures like regularly, and he is like, I can't believe I never did these, Like I feel like I'm walking on a cloud and it really has improved things. He's got good feet now.
Yeah, it's nice that men have learned, like, I don't know, just get your feet done.
Yeah, yeah, we have to look at them so fucking get it together. It's like the least you could fucking do, like nose hair and fucking toes. Just do it. Yeah, I agree.
I also say something horrific in London and I don't know if you want to be horrified to or not, but it's gonna live in my mind.
See, I want to know it's not that bad. Okay.
Basically it was unfortunately a man on the street with his laying down with his butt fully out covered fully and shit everywhere, smeared shit, and there was like a crowd around him.
So I went ooh, I wonder what's going on?
And then I saw him and then a woman was helping him, but I was like, this will not leave me.
So those are the things that wow, can we put like a pickup in where I go. Okay, if you're one of those people that got offended at that thing, Lisa said a few episodes ago, yeah, LEAs fast forward because that's another poop con and I don't even like poop humor. But nothing of this fun. You're not laughing, You're just telling me the story. But it is wild.
I was like in Lapland, in the pure forest in the Arctic, and that wasn't the first thing I told any of our listeners. All I said was there was shit in an ugly toe. That's like what I came back from.
Literally, you were on the trip of a lifetime for ten days dream trip, and you're like, oh, I saw a guy covered in shit in London. First thing first reported.
My friend got married in a beautiful ceremony. But that's what I said because I also was like an amazing crew in production and I was obsessed with everyone and I can't wait to see them all again. But the first story I told you was like the one person I didn't get along. Yeah, it's like not a good brain time.
I was like, yeah, was it? It sounded amazing. Well, this one fucking bitch.
But even that's fun, you know, like we experienced that on about threat party once.
It is fun to have a common enemy.
Yeah, you know, yeah, it keeps the tension off of everyone else because no one's gonna hate each other more than that bitch.
So it's like nice, Yes, for sure, a common enemy can be fun.
Yeah, what did I miss? Your child turned one? You know, my child says you don't like Oliver. He's like locked in the cupboard like Cinderella cleaning already.
A little nugget, my little smiley nugget. Oscar turned one. I made it to a year. Yeah, I'm excited. We're having a little birthday party for him this weekend, joint with another one year old. So it's like a little party. Because Rosie's birthday was so recently, it's like I just can't get involved in another full solo party. I needed someone else to share the work with me. So joint party this weekend the day I land from New York.
It's just gonna be great. I can't wait. Yeah, you guys, so Kara is meeting.
Well it's not for me, but we will both be in New York together this weekend, so we will probably go live. We'll go live, and this is in the past, so you'll you will have maybe seen us live together in New York.
We are in the time machine.
Is so annoying and now it's even more annoying, and we're so happy to be at the Wundry family.
But it has made the time machine even more aggressive. Yeah, it has made it hard. Yeah. But well, like speaking of the time machine, I just want to touch on this very briefly because it is annoying. But this is time machine, so this will have the old news. But the Amber heard verdict and Johnny Depp verdict just came out moments before we were recording this podcast, and she got found guilty and it's just, I mean not guilty because it's not a criminal trial, it's a civil trial.
She has to pay, she has to pay. She got asked to pay him ten million and then three million, and he has to pay her two million. So I don't even know if this bitch has eleven million dollars. I also feel as though she I think they have been in a mutually abusive relationship. That's my opinion from what I've gathered. But I also think people are acting like she completely invented all of her abuse, and I don't think that that's true, And I think that that's
misogyny at its best. So and also bots have been taking over the Internet supporting Johnny Depp, like there have been troll farms in job.
But people have loved Johnny Depp for years because like they, I mean, people have Johnny Depp. There's a man with Johnny Depp tattoos all over his back of all the different characters he's played, you know what I mean, Like, yeah.
I just I've never realized he had such a deep fan base. But I also think that right now the world is on fucking fire in so many different ways that this is like the case that everybody feels like they can joke about. Talked about this on Hysteria today, but like everybody feels like this is like, oh, this is two celebrities that are just like seeing each other
for money. This is like the funny thing, like the punchline news story that we can talk about, and it just feels like she's getting Monica Lewinski, that's all.
Yeah, I mean, I also do think she's a crazy bitch like I do. Sure, And so to me, I'm just pissed because also, like what you said with the bots, it's like in cell like bait, it's cat NAPTI in cells. To them to have a false accusation out there, to have one woman lie, it's like this is all they need forever and ever. So that's why I'm mad at Emberhurd, because it's like, you're gonna make it harder for fucking everybody, any women to come forward anymore.
Now people have to be scared about civil trials. And I also think he was abusive to her. You don't, I don't know.
I've been not paying attention because I've been so like bummed about what this is gonna do for like victims to come for decades.
Yeah, it's a bummer. It's a real bummer. And this is civil luckily it's not criminal. But like he sued her for defamation over something that she wrote in an op ed. That's what the whole case was about. She wrote and said I'm a victim of domestic violence. She did not name him like nothing, and he started this whole lawsuit that brought in so much more dirt about
him that he defamed himself. Like now there's all this shit everybody knows, Like he's got old managers and old agents saying, this fucking guy orders a case of wine to his house every day. He's got a staff of forty people, and like they all are on eggshells around him because he's a psycho, Like he shows up late to set, he punched someone on a set. I mean, like he's not He's no angel, fucking Johnny Dutch. No, I don't think so.
But you're totally right because I've only just been on the internet, like just Twitter, Instagram, and yeah, I did not hear or see any of that.
Yeah, the.
Amber being like a dumb bitch, I understand, like calling someone that's a victim of abuse like a crazy bitch might be seen as bad, but also crazy bitches could get attacked, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's the whole idea of like perfect and imperfect victims that's annoying, where it's like all these people that might lie or have records or do other things can still be abused.
People in jail get raped all the time. So I like my moments of being a crazy bitch. Yeah, I've been a crazy bitch in some moments of my life.
You know, I don't know if I trust her in terms of like I don't know what I let her borrow a top.
I don't know. Yeah, on the Amber Heard trust scale, it's like I let her borrow a top.
I don't think i'd let her watch my kids. But you know, yeah, and she's allowed to be a crazy bitch. I mean that's at the end of the day, you know, and she could still be someone that deserves empathy.
And justice and justice in a fair trial. Yeah, it's all. And what's wild is like everybody's making money on this, Like right wing websites are like post spending all this money to push their Amber Herd Johnny Depp shit on Facebook and also like Etsy people are making like you know, like justice for Johnny shit, and like YouTube people are completely pivoting their content. They're like, Okay, no makeup to toial today. Instead, I'm just gonna give my hot take
on the Depth Herd trial. Like everybody's just trying and they're getting thousands and thousands of hits. Like everybody's just like obsessed with this shit right now. So I just figured we had to address it. But it feels like it's misogyny, but I also think it was a mutually abusive relationship and that she's not completely innocent, but that she has been a victim in my opinion.
Yeah, I just seem scared what this will do forever, Like I'm just so annoyed to sit at any comedy club ever again and this topic come up, Like I know, but it's just like.
Me, so I hear exactly what you're saying.
Well, because even so I just went on Instagram obviously it's a tick and I'm addicted, and it was Whitney Cummings Live with Tiffany Hattish and she was saying the craziest shit. I was like, I have to log off because I also caught it in the middle. But Whitney was pretty much saying like, you need to think twice before you come forward, because then your name is going
to be associated with this person forever. And you need to pick your battles and anytime you get abused, you better write it down, send an email, tele friend, because that's what you need. And it sucks, but you need evidence and you need to realize if it's worth it or not to come forward because of your name, and you'll always be attached to this person. And I was like, oh my god, like, shit's about I just like I don't know. Yeah, I'm just nervous for everybody else forever,
and it's always like one step forward, eighty steps back constantly. Yeah, because even like years ago, I got into an argument with a bunch of comics and they were talking about the few women that light about Bill O'Reilly. I was like, but didn't dozens of them tell the truth?
Yeah?
I'm like, why is that not more worrisome to you? But that's because they're all rapists, so they're like nervous. But I don't know, so it might be something I skip in terms of being super invested in.
Oh yeah, I mean, and no one will talk about it in two days. I just feel like this woman's life is probably like gonna be you know, who knows. Maybe she'll sell a book and that'll be the money she has to pay Johnny Depp, who knows. But on Hysterio today, after we talked about this fucking train wreck for a while, we also did our sanity. They do a thing called Sanity Corner, and I talked about All Stars seven, which is bringing me a lot of joy right now. You just got back and you were able
to because Lisa has not. Lisa has not quite negotiated the world of a VPN, so when she's abroad, she doesn't have the access to all of her Famously, she thought of VPN was a stick, so you know, like we definitely have to give her a little So she hasn't been able to tune into what I am finding to be a delightful fucking season of television.
Oh yeah, I mean I'm only in the first episode, but obviously already cried when Shaikule and Naomi Campbell had the moment. Naomi Campbell's eyes turned wet and I was like a puddle. And then Jada's crying is she good enough or not? And that's actually where I pause to get onto our lovely little zoom recording.
It's just everybody is excellent. It's like, you know, we watch these seasons and there's like three or four fillers at the beginning, and you're like, Okay, let's get to when we get to the compety, like you're not really gonna be that competitive, and like everybody's good. Everybody has their own strengths. No one goes home, so there's not really a lot of like caddy bitchiness. They all love each other, They're all awesome, like fucking Raja rules Like I don't know, I don't even know.
Raja's always been to my number one fashion queen, and I'm just glad she finally gets the chance to.
Like, I just think she's so slady beautiful, even in confessional, I'm like, you're gorgeous, like and the like I want. This isn't a spoiler, but last night on the episode, there was just a voiceover where Raja's coming down the runway and it's her own voiceover going, fuck, I look good. I was like, yeah, you're right, Like my husband, I just started like cracking up. It was so funny. But yeah, everybody's great. I love Jinks. I don't know. I don't know who I'm going for. I think I'm going for
either Raja or Jinks. And I think that's just because they haven't they're they're farther back for me, like they're more classic. But like, I don't know.
I think everyone thinks Shinx is gonna win, so we'll see, but I do want it would be fun if either Trinity or Monette took it just to yeah, settle the score.
Shay are like also amazing competitors, Like they're really well Shaye to me.
I mean, I'm only one in but like her confessionals are so funny and so like snappy into the point and clever, and I'm like, I cannot believe we get to talk to her, Like, I know, it is really shocking that Shay has taken a love for us, because I don't know if we're worthy of it.
I'm not sure.
No, But what I watched in the UK, they're drag races on Netflix. I just rewatched five, six, seven and eight, like you know, while I was in bed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh so.
One of my favorite things in life are people doing impressions of me, and like especially non Americans because the accents are so good. But my friend Emma did the best impression of me. She's like, your stories are always one eye open, it's just you going, I don't know if I'm gonna make my fly.
We'll see I made my fly. Yeah, like your bed ones were you know, there's a little bit of eyeliner on there and one eyes open. They're so funny. And then one of the nights in Finland.
I shared a room with a DT, an Indian comic who's incredible, and but I sleep with a laptop. And then she the next morning got up and she's like, you need help. She's like, you're fucking sick. BoJack Horseman the saddest episodes. I go, what are you talking about? She goes, when Sarah Lynne dies, that's what you're sleeping to,
just the most tragic episodes of television. I'm like, I don't know, and she goes, you know, I woke up in the middle of the night and she's like, I slowly closed your laptop so quietly, and she said that I woke up, Like what's going on?
Like I fully woke up that I needed the laptop. And she's like, laptop is your noise machine? Like for my children, yes, Like they need a white noise machine, and that's your white noise machine.
So those are like the twos. Oh I had caviar pasta. Now I'm like, have you eaten anything good? But when I'm back in.
La, well, well we're going to San Diego. Fuck. I fucking I want bells bagels so bad. I guess I'm a saying I'll tell you the soft mic. It's kind of boring. What'd you have? No, tell me no. I just tried this new place that's in our neighborhood that's been saying it was going to open for like two years. I think you know what I'm talking about. I don't want drug front or not. Well it's not a drug front, but they need to work out some kinks. I'm gonna go back in a few months when the kinks are
worked out. What's the kink they've been It's a place that serves slices. They give you a buzzer. I'm like, I shouldn't have to wait for a butt, Like heat it up and give it to me, like Saborro has mastered this, Like give me the piece. And then I got a pizza bagel that was just like eh, But like I am going to try it again in a few months. I just feel like it's cute and like they have a great salad. I know that's like not really a selling point for like a full pizza place,
but like, yeah, we can cut this. This is like a review of a local of a local. I don't think it's that bad. I don't think it's boring.
I think people need to know about bagels and slices that were into and not into.
I had.
I had for the first time reindeer reindeer tongue.
Oh my mo. I definitely haven't had anything remotely cool. But like, that's amazing.
A lot of white fish. I mean I went fishing. I fully, like helped a fisherman like nets in the lake on his little boat, and I was like pulling fish and he was bopping them on the head like unconscious, and like some of them were still flopping in this bucket and in the water, and like I thought I'd have feelings for them, like I am a compassionate person that does like animals. I felt nothing for these fish. They were flopping for air. It's not a p you're
not interested. I bled a fish out, he held it, and I stabbed it in its neck as blood poured out, and I felt nothing.
You went full yellow jackets over in Finland. Huh.
I did well because it's like I either Paris Hilton and go I don't know, or I fucking act respectful and do the job with these fishermen where it's like this is this guy's had this fishing company since nineteen eighty seven, you know, what I mean. Like, so to me, I was like, I'm just gonna do what they do. I'm not gonna like be offensive. But then I also had to question, like what's wrong with I felt that they were looking at me different.
I mean, I'm a pescytarian. I don't know. Fish don't make any noise. It's not like they're like no like as you you know, like you no just swarming around. But it felt great.
It was just like grabbing these fish with my bare hands as they flipped and flopped in my hand.
I mean it was like it was I challenge. Cannot wait to like fucking crash in a plane with you, and you keep us alive by catching fish with your bare hands. It's gonna be amazing. Yeah. I'm gonna get a knife soon. Yeah fuck yeah, just don't forget to put it in your check luggage. My fucking crazy dad always goes through security with a knife on his belt and forgets. Oh my god.
There was a little dog training at the airport today learning how to be a drug dog. But it kept harassing people that like might have just had lunch, you know, cause it was a job that was training. And I was like, you're like panicking a lot of people right now, can you take your puppy away? Like this old couple was having a heart attack.
Oh my god.
Watch the old couple just had so much coke strapped to the inside of their shirts.
No, but one of the other comedians I was with the park Rangers gifted her an axe. But she's also like from South Africa, not a citizen like all of these things, and with an axe, and she did get held in customs for a while.
Oh my god because of the axe.
I didn't ask cause I didn't want to message her just in case they were going to use her phone, like I didn't know how deep.
It was going to go.
I was like yeah, I was like, we can't message her about the acts.
You thought so many steps ahead. I love it. Okay, a massive intro because we haven't caught up in a long time, because you haven't seen so we're going to be in New York.
So next week's intro is going to be even more exciting because it's going to be stories about us being RecA.
Yes and going to see our friend Allison Levey show, which we have plugged a million times, which I believe. Well, actually it was extended so I believe it's playing the whole second half of June. If you're in New York and you haven't gotten tickets to Oh God, an Hour about Abortion at the Cherry Lane, please go get them. You guys don't want to miss it. We're seeing it this week and we're so excited. A couple more little
pluggy plugs. I am going to be a guest on another Exactly Right podcast called parent Footprint, which is a podcast about parenting. If you're interested. The host is doctor Dan and he is is really charming and lovely to listen to. And we just talked about parenting and stuff and we had a great time. And that comes out on June sixteenth, if you're interested on the Exactly Right Network. And then, guys, you know, I'm gonna tell you we
are coming to Minnesota. Minneapolis this weekend, the nineteenth of June. It's Father's Day, but it's in the afternoon. Take a break from your dad or your husband, or whoever is the father figure in your life and come see us at the I don't know, it's the Minneapolis Comedy Festival all It's.
A venue a little too big for us. It's gonna be a problem.
We really need you guys, We really need Minneapolis to like turn out because you know, they booked us in something that I think was a little ambitious. Where they did it book us in a place that was the ambitious was Chicago. And we are almost sold out. We are very likely going to be sold out on the twentieth by the time this episode comes out, but I believe there's still a few tickets left for the twenty first that's a Tuesday of June twenty first of June.
Come see us at Zanies Downtown. And yeah, our bio has all on Instagram, has all of or that's messed up. Live dot com actually is where you can find all of our tickets in my hometown. Bitch. Also, this is old news, but new news.
But we did get reports from a costume department person from Law and Order SVU or no she works she made it was.
A friend of hers who worked there. Like, so the listeners, why don't ask your friend? Well, a listener asked their friend who works in the costume department, Like, is there anything to this whole purple thing? I listened to this podcast where they're obsessed with the fact that everyone's always wearing purple, and we know it's the color of domestic violence, and there's all these other theories everyone has. And the woman that wrote back from a costume department was like,
literally no, like there's nothing to that. Like a lot of times, because it's so dark where they shoot, certain colors like teal or red will show up as purple, but it's not a conscious thing that they're doing, and it's not about domestic violence. I guess that's just a coincidence and we're all colorblind. I don't really know, but that's that on that I don't know the costume Tea Hunty, Yes, Hunty.
Did you see the video of Gigi Hadid and Emma Chamberlain on the red carpet of the met gala talking like two gay men from like two years ago?
No, it's like pretty funny.
It's she's just like, oh my god, I saw you and you slay. She goes, is slay major, sligh, You're a major. So I did see this. I did see this.
I don't think I knew it was Emmer Chamberlin, but I saw I saw the Gigi doing that.
That way, we have oh my god, Cravis the wedding, I mean we have to go. I don't know what to do, but do you have any thoughts on the Cravis wedding.
I don't know what it is, but I'm happy for those two when I see their posts. I'm like the Kardashians in general, I'm like enough, but like those two. And Corney's always been the most boring one to me. And she looks like she seems like she's dead to me all the time, like her eyes are dead, her voice is dead, and she seems a little bit more alive with Travis, and so I like that. I want them to live and be alive together.
I watched his architectural digest on YouTube, and I always love when celebrities think things that are very regular only special to them.
So he was like, yeah, we're just so.
In love and we really go all out on Christmas and our birthdays. And I was like, yeah, that's like a very normal thing to do to just like get your partner a nice gift on holiday and.
Tell me you're going all out on Flag Day, bitch, I want to do something different.
So then he goes, yeah, she was holding this candle and was like, you gave this to me three years ago. And he's like we're just so connected, and I'm like, you're just so cut off from the regular world, like you're truly a regular couple. But it seems sweet and they like their kids, all like each other. I just wish the best for them. Yeah, yeah, but I don't care about that card oct Oh. I do have fucking gossip, but I don't know.
If it's mine, it's hell. And he seems like a good guy because I saw him doing a makeup tutorial with like his teen child and I thought that was really sweet, Like she was doing a tattoo cover up on him and he was like her model, and I thought that was really cute. So I think he seems like a good guy. Anyway, let's start this. We could
talk about God, we have to start. We have to be like we have to literally be like Race Chaser, where we start a separate podcast called hot Goss where we just talk about other shit that doesn't have to do with drag, right, you know what I mean? Like they do a podcast, Why would you like talk about their own shit? Yeah? Kay, I have to do. Yeah.
From Sex and the City, just like that. Chay is on the cover of a magazine Saw I see that.
Saw all the fashion. Chay is back in the fucking site. Guys, babies, all right, let's start this episode. We've got a good one for you, guys. Don't move a muscle, Okay, So we are covering today Stolen Season three, episode three. Exciting. This is a wow, very close to nine to eleven episode. I just realized the air date is ten twelve, two thousand and one. And okay. The episode opens in a grocery store and this new mom is like carding her baby along with her, and she asks the stock boy
like where's the baby formula? And then she leaves the cart with the baby in it at the top of the aisle. And I don't really have a problem with that. It's just there's no reason for it. Like she walks over to a place where there's so much space to park a grocery cart and starts loading up formula into her arms, and it's like, it's not like it was a weird corner where you couldn't fit the stroller. So
she leaves it at the top of the aisle. And I get it that this is a cold open of a television show and we have a tragedy to get to. But it just seemed weird to me. And then she gets all this formula and she starts walking back to the cart and done, done, the baby is gone. She's like, Emma, she starts, she drops all the formula, starts screaming, my baby. Someone stole my baby, and then we cut to Benson and Stabler on the scene getting the run down from
a uniform cop. The baby is six weeks old. It's very young. Emma dera check. And Stabler's immediately blaming the mom, and I know I kind of did as well, but he was like, you know, one second solid takes, but mine was just like, logistically, I really don't have a problem with leaving a baby for two seconds, but I guess someone could take them, and that's what this episode
is proving. And Stabler's like, oh no, sorry. I wrote a note where I was like, okay, Stabler, you never answered a call from Live while you were watching Dicky at a supermarket like ease up. And then they're searching the whole store and the mom has checked all the other babies that were in the store and none of
them are her baby. And then a uniform shows up and is like the Motor Vehicle office down the Street just found something in the ladies room, and it's like, this is the second episode we've done recently where SVU likes to act like the DMV is helpful, Like I just cannot believe that the DMV is like, hey, we've we found some clothes in your case, like right as it's unfolding, but you know, we love a good fiction.
So in the bathroom of the Motor Vehicle office, they find baby's clothes and I drop her and some capsules which and Live identifies the drug as librium and she thinks that they just like watered it down and gave it to the baby to be quiet. And they also find a baby's pink bow with a lock of hair cut off, and it's like, you can just remove the bow, like most babies have pretty short hair and it's not going to really give away the gender or the sex.
Excuse me, like it's weird. So anyway, yeah, like you could just take the bow out. I get the bow as an identifying thing. They're like, so there's the creepy like little lock of baby hair that's being sort of passed around and you know it's that's the credits, and we're like, where's this fucking baby. This is stressful. So back at the store, the mom Michelle is like, how could this happen? And I looked her up because she
looked so familiar to me. And her name is Carrie Green and she was in Goonies, she was in Summer Rental, and she was in the movie Lucas, which are were like big movies that came out for me, like around the same time. Like I remember watching Lucas all the time. It was with one of the Cory's I think is in Lucas. I think Corey Haim is in Lucas. And she just had a few years of being a teen queen in movies and now she just like doesn't act anymore. But she that this SV I think was her last
thing that she did. But I just thought that was interesting that I thought I recognized her, and it's from her being a literal eighteen year old. And so they're like, is anyone do you have you noticed anyone watching you? Have you noticed anyone paying attention to the baby? Weirdly? And she's like, stop girling me, and she's blaming herself and she's really freaking out. And then her husband Tony gets there.
So I really hate when the people are like, stop asking me questions and go get my baby. It's like they have to ask you some questions.
Like they have to.
It's such a trope of like why are you wasting your time talking to me? And it's like the one witness, Yeah, the one person who was there, we gotta ask.
You questions completely. Her husband Tony gets there and her husband.
This is actually a jam packed episode of SV I mean at Sex and the City.
It's like one of the only guys I didn't click on, so tell me.
He is the guy that tells Samantha she needs to trim her bush and she gets offended and then she's like, honestly, it's like a jungle down there. And then she like shaves his bush and he goes, wow, my dick looks huge. And so I think they fought in the cab, like for a cab. But yeah, one of Samantha's conquests.
Got this guy. I there's another Sex in the City down the line that I'm gonna note too. That's why I said it was Jampack. Okay, yeah yeah yeah. So he's like, well, good thing you're here. Stabler's like, we need your help. Calming your wife down, and the guy's like, yeah, story of my life. She's apparently been having a tough time because being a mom is hard, but these guys
are like, I wish you would just chill out. And the husband reveals that this is the first time Michelle has been out of the house with Emma, so yeah, six weeks she's been stuck in the house with a newborn, and Stabler is trying to tell the husband that his wife is probably going through some postpartum depression and he's like, yeah, whatever, if I thought she'd hurt the baby, i'd take her away.
But that's like, also very much not the point. And I think this is another way where sv is ahead of its time, Like this is two thousand and one, We're talking about postpartum depression on a network show. I don't really think that they were doing that a lot
at that point, So bravo to SVU. And in the next scene, they're downloading Craigan and it seems like they're talking about Michelle, like how Michelle could be the one who got rid of her baby in a postpartum depression fuel break of some sort, and Craigan's like, would she have been rational enough to plant the clothes, and Stabler's like, I can't rule it out, and it's like, actually, yes, you can rule it out. The stock boy saw her with the baby right there, and then was there two
seconds later when she was screaming. That's hardly a window of time to plant baby clothes at a DMV office down the street. So I really think you can rule that shit out right now, But I digress. Craigan thinks it could just have also been someone desperate for a baby who just grabbed the baby, and he tells Stabler go back to the mom and figure it out. And then Stabler tries to you know, commiserate parent to parent with Michelle about how hard it is, and Michelle agrees.
She's like it is hard, but she's like, I'm so blessed to have Emma and I love her so much. Like there's absolutely no confession, no breakdown happening here for Michelle.
Now they've got some kind of mobile unit that's happening that they brought to be right outside the grocery store, and they're sending out all these apbs for Emma all over the place, and Munch is like, all we found was a woman with a suitcase in her shopping cart, and they're like, go check the and it's like, why was this not the very first move before we accuse the sad mom? Why did we not go straight to
the grocery store security tapes. But anyway, Finn's with the security guard and he goes, someone's watching this all day and the guy goes, this is not a Vegas casino, and I thought that was funny. Like, no, nobody's like watching the grocery store security cameras like a hawk to see if anyone's stealing cucumbers. So they see a woman swoop by Michelle's cart grab the baby on tape, but they can't see her face. It's like from behind, and
that obviously clears Michelle. And then they get another camera angle on the exit and they see this lady wheeling a suitcase out of the store. So it's like, yeah, the baby is in there. I guess. I don't know how she went to the DMV office to drug the baby. I don't know. It's a little bit confusing of an episode. It's only season three. I don't know if they've got
the well oiled machine happening yet. But and now we're back in the SVU mobile home, and Craigan's like, all right, let's rule out the mom for the moment, and it's like maybe forever. And then they found the show where this lady bought the suitcase and she paid with a credit card under the name Susan Young and she works
at social services. So now we've tracked down Susan Young in a park and she's like, yeah, my purse was stolen this morning and from the substance of youth center where I work, and they show her a pic of the person walking out of the store with a suitcase, and she's like, uh, Alicia, And she's like, Alicia's one of my clients. She's a crack addict and she was doing really well. She'd stopped using since she got pregnant. She had the baby last week and it was stillborn.
And so they're like, do you know where she lives? And she's like, of course, I do this as SVU. I have her address memorized. And so now we're at Alisha's apartment, which looks kind of nice, and so they think, Wow, she's got a job, or she's got a sugar daddy, you know, And then Stabler's like she's back on the pipe. After he finds you know, her like little box of drug paraphernalia, and then Live finds a stack of hundreds in the closet, so it's like thousands and thousands of dollars.
And Alisha comes home, sees the cops and makes a run for it, so they run down the stairs after her. They grab her. They demand to know where the baby is. She says she gave Emma away. She had to. She promised them a baby and her baby died and they're like, who did you promise the baby to, and she's like a lawyer, Mark Sandford, I gave the baby to him in Chelsea. So now the detectives bust into this brownstone in Chelsea where they hear a baby crying. They go upstairs.
A woman comes to the door and she's on the phone with someone saying the police are here. But then she tells them, oh, I was on the phone with the police, and Olivia's like, really, let me check your phone and she did not dial nine one one last, So the woman is lying she was calling someone else and she's like, I just take care of the babies. And then they find this nursery filled with cribs. And
by the way, this brownstone has nothing in it. It's like very sparse, empty brownstone except for like a room full of cribs and a woman taking care of them.
So that definitely like she doesn't even get to sit down at work. Yeah there's not one extra chair.
Yeah, I don't even know if there's like a microwave to her to make a little ramen. Like this place is very empty, and she's like, all these babies were given up for adoption. This is just kind of like a way station and before they head off to their new place, and this is all on the up and up, and Elliott goes around looking at all the babies and then he IDs Emma from a photo and they arrest
the caretaker woman for kidnapping. So now at the hospital, Elliott and Olivia are downloading Daddy Craigan and they're like two girls, one boy is what we found. They're in excellent health while taken care of. The brownstone was rented to Adoptions Incorporated, very creative, and Mark Sanford signed the lease. Someone named Mark Sanford, so they don't know who. So like for somebody who is maybe doing something illegal, this man's not really covering up very much like everything's under
his name. Everyone knows his name. It's just Mark Sandford, and they don't really know who these other two but babies belong to, but they're going to find out. So Michelle and Tony get Emma back, and it's a very rare happy ending for anyone on Law and Order SVU and Tony, you know, side talks to Stabler and goes Michelle's going to see a doctor. Oh wow, postpartum depression advocate Elliott Stabler everyone, he's done it. And now Munch and Finn are interrogating the caretaker and she's like, I'm
an RN. I was hired to look after the babies. And they're like, you didn't think this empty brownstone was kind of weird and she's like, they're just chilling there before their adopted parents get them. This is all fine. Dog Mister Sandford is a saint, she says. And they're like, okay, that's very cute. Now give him up or you're an accessory, and she's like, okay, his office is in Quegardens. So she's very loyal for about two seconds and then she gives him right up, as she should well. Also, she
thinks that nothing is wrong. Why not give him up, you know what I mean, like, exactly, bring him in here, clear everything up. This is all normal. Yeah, So they catch him, this guy Sandford, leaving his house with his briefcase and like a filebox put that he's putting into his car, and he immediately is a lawyer, so he's like, I'm not talking to anyone without my lawyer. So they arrest him for kidnapping. And this actor is named Bruce Altman.
He has a one hundred and eleven credits. I've seen him. He was a very big character on Mister Robot, and he's also been in Orange as the New Black, and this is his only SVU, but he's been on seven episodes of Original Recipe as well. So I just thought that felt like he was one of these you see him everywhere kind of guys. So he's now talking in interrogation with his lawyer and he's like, I've never put
an abducted child up for adoption. And his lawyer is our old pal Josh Peis aka Hank Abraham, but in this episode he's Robert Sorenson, so he plays He does three episodes as Sorensen and then he does seven episodes of sv You later as Hank Abraham, and I think he looks better with gray hair.
Oh yeah, you like a better gray daddie like him as a brunette here was very off putting to me.
Yeah, yeah, he looked weird and young, and yeah, so many men just age. They look better at the age. And so he's like, listen, Alicia gave a baby to me two years ago. She hit me up again when she was pregnant again. I had no reason to believe that the baby wasn't hers, Like, I've had one successful adoption with her. And they're like, oh yeah, and then you also like load her up with cash that she'll give you her babies or whatever. And he's like, that's
for expenses and medical fees. And they're like, he gets a very nominal fee from the parents, a very modest fee, and it's like twenty thousand dollars per couple. So this man is getting paid. And then Cabot's watching this all go down across the one way glass as usual, and she's like, I don't know, guys, kidnapping is a stretch. We can't prove he knew what Alicia did. And if you prove he sold Emma. It's grand larceny. And Craigin's like, this is a person, not a lexus. What are you
talking about? And Cabot's like, look, we can hold him for six days on the kidnapping, can you make a case in that time? So off we go to try to make that happen. Finn and Munch are to quote Craig and surfing the web and they're on Sanford's website that looks like a Craigslist for adoption. It's like, here's a little blue eyed girl that just wants to make
you her mommy or whatever. It's weird, and Finn asks Munch if he's ever considered adoption, and Munch goes, the kindest thing I could ever do for a kid is not adopt. So I love that Munch is proudly child free.
Love that for him. Finn is running down Sanford's history, and Munch has a ledger of Sanford's and reads out all these babies' birthdays and I don't know why, he's just like reading birthdays out loud, and one is a baby boy born January second, nineteen eighty nine, and that piques Craigan's interest and Craigan's like, how do I find
out this baby's name? They figure out the corresponding page and he's like Steven Talmadge, and Craigan looks like he just struck gold, and Munch and Finn are just like, nothing's registering for us here. Craig's like, we don't know what you're talking about. So Craigan takes off, and of course this is an old case of Kragan's where he remembers the missing baby's birthday exactly, and he's at a diner.
It's a diner in the title card. It looks like much more of like a dark sort of restaurant bar, but they're calling it a diner, and he's giving Munch and therefore us the viewers the rundown. He's talking about how in eighty nine, a woman named Jennifer Talmadge was found murdered in her apartment. Her four week old son,
Stephen was taken from there and never found. Both the case of the mom and the child are still open, and his old buddy, Max Greevy was the cop on the case and he worked it really hard until he was murdered on the job in ninety one. And so now Munch is like, wow, this case has been kicking your ass for twelve years. And Craigan's like, I just know Stephen is still alive and this is a huge
lead after twelve years. And he's like, yeah, Jennifer Talmage's parents call used to call me once a year on Steven's birthday for updates, but the call stopped three years ago. So he's like, Munch, I really need your help with the case. And Munch is like, oh yeah, yeah, all right. So Craigan shows up at a front door and when it opens, the woman goes, oh, my lord. She is
so happy to see Captain Craigan. And this is an actress named Celia Weston, who you've seen in everything, I think most recently she was on the Thing about Pam on NBC with Rene Zawegger. And their house is really big and old and like handcrafted. Look it's like a cool sort of like it looks like it would be in like Vermont, like Massachusetts or something, but it's probably in up Hudson River Valley, New York or something. And so they bring Craigan upstairs to show him Steven's room
and they're like, we celebrate all his birthdays. We buy him presents every Christmas. And the room is like a full toy store store, like they've never lost hope. They've got this whole room with like bikes and all kinds of great shit for Steven, like should he ever reappear? So now in this holding cell, Craigan and Cabot are talking to Stanford and his lawyer again, and Craigan is
very antsy. He's like, you killed Jennifer and you sold Steven, and Cabot is like, let me offer you a deal if you cooperate, and Craigan's like, the deal's good for ten seconds, and the lawyer's like you're bluffing, and Craigan's like, nah, I'm gonna nail your ass to the wall. And then he bounces out of there, and Stanford and the lawyer look kind of concerned, but it's like they barely gave
them a second to consider a deal. And then Cabot chases Craig Craigan out and is like what the fuck, dude, Like I could have used that kidnapping charge as leverage if you just hadn't gone all macho cop on me, Like what the hell, and Cabot's like you're too close to this case. And he's like, damn right, So this is a Craigan episode. This is a damn Floric heavy episode. So Munch is working the case and he's looked at the file and he's like most interviews just said Jennifer
was a great person. No leads. There was only one set of prints at the scene and there are no matches in you know, Cotis or whatever does fingerprints. And Craigan checks in with Elliott and Olivia on the other babies. They're all set to join their new homes. Sandford did everything by the book. The parents consented to the adoption, all the paperwork is good, like he's everything's on the up and up. They do find out that Sandford is
triple dipping. He basically tells three families he's got a baby for them, and then he tells two of the families the mom changed her mind and keeps the money. And that's thirty thousand dollars per couple. So he's making
ninety k per baby. And this is in two thousand and one, and it is fucked up, Like, I do have a friend going through the adoption process right now, and it is really crazy because you pour a ton of money into it, and then you have like literally no insurance like it can just so, yeah, he's shady.
He's not putting up. I don't think he's kidnapping babies or killing people per se, but he is shady for sure, And it just sucks that there's already no insurance for parents that are trying to adopt in the adoption world, and then to have lawyers be greedy and dishonest, is it's like an extra hurdle to becoming a parent for
these people. It just sucks. So they find out that none of these parents snitch on him because they don't want to get blackballed by other baby brokers, and it's just really fucked how the whole adoption system is even working.
But Thinn finds Sandford's old phone records, and Craigan's like, all right, everybody dig in, just like handing out thick ass folders of phone numbers to everybody, and Munch is like, well, there was something about Jennifer's roommate Rebecca in the file where Greevy was supposed to file up with him but then never did, and so Munch hends that heads out to Westchester County to talk to Rebecca, this roommate. This seems insane that you would not talk to her college roommate.
And she said that Jennifer had one boyfriend, a guy named Rob, and Rebecca knew he was trouble when he walked in. I'm not allowed to sing that, but I think you guys know what I'm saying. And she had seen him walking around campus with another girl, so she knew he was a two timer, but she was like, jen was naive. He was her first. They went out for two weeks before he broke up with her, and then they're like, did he give a reason? And she goes, guys never do, okay, and then she says, did you
know she was pregnant. She's like yeah, she couldn't really hide it, and she knew Rob was the father and she tells them, yeah, his name was Rob Cook. So this woman has all this fucking information and has just been sitting there for twelve years just knowing who the
father of this murdered woman's baby is. And they definitely would have found out who the father was in the first investigation, Like they would have figured that out somehow, emails, phone calls, like they would have figured out who impregnated her, because he would have been a suspect. So it's really, well, they only dated for time two weeks.
Yeah, so if she's pregnant nine months later, it's like, yeah, they should have talked to the roommate, but it wasn't.
Like and the roommate is the only one that knows about Rob. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like two weeks. They only dated two weeks. I know, but you're in college and you're like, you've got like a but I don't know. I just feel like you wouldn't only one, not one friend would know that. Like a bunch of my friends would know. If I was dating someone for two weeks, or even if I hooked up with someone one night, a bunch of my friends would know.
Probably I don't know, but I just think that this something about who the paternity of a father would have come up in the investigation, and it's just kind of strange. But Rebecca said, oh yeah. They're like, oh, did she ever let the father know? And Rebecca goes, yes, she sent him a letter. So now Munch and Cragan journey back to the Burbs, where they find Rob Cook playing catch with his sons on a grassy lawn. It's very Pleasantville. And the actor is David Aaron Baker who's playing the father.
And he's been on Anther SPU called Infected. I don't recall that right away who he was or what that episode is, but he's a law and order he's a dick Wolf standby. He's been on Original Recipe, Criminal Incent, Trial by Jury, and two svus. So this man is in Dick Wolf's rolodex. And he was also in an episode of Sex and the City as Ted in an episode called Secret Sex. And he's a sports doctor who Miranda fucks, and he likes spanking videos. But you knew
that right, Yes, I do remember him. I just remember her punching him by accident. I just remember that part. I don't know if I remember the spanking videos. So they want to see a birth certificate for his son because his son is around the age that Steven Talmadge would be. And Rob Cook says, my wife has it. My ex wife. She's in Maya Pak and we were recently divorced. And they tell him this is about Jennifer.
Her son disappeared, and we think you're the father. So now they are in interrogation with him, and he's like, yeah, I read about Jennifer. We were in the paper. I didn't think the child was mine. We only slept together like one time. And it's like, I guess you don't know how pregnancy works, and Munch does back me up on that, and he's like, yeah, it just takes one time. So again, completely to me, unbelievable that they would not have talked to this man. But I guess you're right.
It has been nine months and they only dated for a short amount of time. But he tells just to me, they're saying that this man, Max Greeby, worked this case for years like it was his own child, and so I'm like, yeah, he should have talked to the roommate. He's a dumb bitch.
But in terms of like lots of people know or like who it was, it seems like she didn't have friends and was naive, and yeah, that makes sense to me, but yeah, yeah, yeah, the roommate.
Of it all does not make sense. But like, and if I were the roommate, I would have gone to the police and been like, did you guys ever talk to Rob Cook, Like, did you talk to the father of the baby, like if my friend from college got murdered. But it also seemed like their friendship was weird because they were like, were you guys close? And she's like, we were roommates. It was weird. So he's like, listen, Jennifer was a rebound girl for me, Like I was
on the ounce with my girlfriend Linda. I did not kill Jennifer. I did not know she was pregnant. I never got a letter. He's like, I broke up with Jennifer because Linda told me she was pregnant. And this guy has clearly never even glanced at a condom. And he says, we got married as soon as the semester was over. And that's Brandon, our son, and that kind of explains why he has this baby that's similar age
to the missing boy. So now we're with Melinda, who is swabbing the son Brandon, while his mom, Linda is like, do we have to all do this? Like this is you know, she's that woman who's very much like against finding out who killed someone. And then she bickers with Rob about why how he couldn't keep it in his pants and Rob is like, we were kids, Like you need to let go of this thing that happened twelve
years ago. And then Linda refuses the swab and wants an attorney, and then they threaten her with a contempt charge, so she just does it. So back at the precinct, well, she has like a killer line hold on. She goes, I do have contempt for this or something? Yeah, I have plenty of contempt for this. Yeah I thought was fun. Yeah. I looked her up and was like, oh, she seems like a kind of like a good play is a good bitch? Like who is she? And I don't think
she's really done much more acting. But back at the precinct, the DNA has proven that Brandon is the son of Linda and Rob and has nothing to do with Jennifer. And then Finn finds something Steven Talmuch's adoption papers signed by his mother, and then so that's a twist. We did not know that Jennifer was even considering giving her baby up for adoption, and now they're like, now it looks like they're signed, and that's what was given to Sanford.
So Craigan's talking to Jennifer's parents and they're like, no way, it's impossible Jennifer had considered adoption early on, but had changed her mind when we offered her financial support emotional support, said we would watch Stephen while she so she could finish school, like kind of, you know, a perfect parental reaction to a young pregnancy. So when they show the adoption papers to the parents, the parents were like, that
is not her signature. There's no way in how my parents know what my signature looks like do you think your parents know what your signature looks like, Lisa, No, yeah, they would never be able to be like that's not it. They would have to for sure bring out a passport, which is what they do. They get Jennifer's passport to prove that this is not her signature, not even close.
Back in a holding cell with Sanford, Craigan shows him the forged signature and tells him like, you're fucked, Like this is not a legal adoption, and he's like, I did not forge this signature, and Cabot's like, yeah, you're actually just a criminal who defrauds couples desperate for babies, so a jury will buy that you did do this, so you're definitely screwed. And he nods to his lawyer like all right, let's make a deal, and Cabot's like, okay, here's what's on the table. No jail time, and you
pay back all the couples you defrauded. And Craigan adds, and you give me Stephen Talmadge. And he says, Okay, a woman came to me with a baby claiming to be his mother. She had the original birth certificate. I had no idea she was a fake. And then I saw Jennifer's pick in the paper. But I couldn't risk go And they're like, but you couldn't risk going to the police because you're a dirt bag and a criminal,
and he was like, yeah, pretty much. So like you could have left him at a firehouse or something, but instead you like put him up for adoption when he had family out there and you just wanted money. So it's pretty fucked up. Cragan demands the adopted family's information. So now again we're in the burbs. This is a very in and out of the city episode. Craigan rings the doorbell and we're at the little sign on the
door says like, welcome to the Blake's. So we're at the Blake's house and inside there's like a bunch of boys in baseball uniforms, because apparently that's what everyone's doing out there, is playing baseball, America's pastime. And the mom comes downstairs and is like, boys, Tyler, go outside with your friends and welcomes the cops in because I guess in this universe everyone loves the cops. And Craigan looks at Tyler like they share a look when he leaves,
and so like, yeah, this is clearly Steven. And the mom confirms that Tyler was adopted by Mark Sandford, and after they tell her, she is really really upset. She's like, what am I going to tell my husband? What am I going to tell Tyler? And then we see that Tyler's standing outside the kitchen and he's listening to this whole thing, and he looks like his entire world just
blew up, because it basically did. And she calls for Tyler to come into the kitchen and he's like, I'm not going, and they're like, you're not in any trouble, and his parents are like, we'll go together. His mom says, we'll go together. So it's just really sad because this kid just seems like he's living a nice little life and now these cops blow in to ruin everything, and so now we've got Craigan and Rob Cook are looking at Tyler through the one way glass and he's confirming
to Rob like, yes, Tyler is your biological son. And Craigan's like, he's had a good life. They raised him as their own child. And Rob's like, but I'm his father. He belongs with me. I never would have abandoned him. And I just I sort of hate this guy. Even though they try to act like all the sides are right on this one. I don't like this man. I hate him too.
And there is a good point later on the stand where I'm like, Okay, good point, but like let him live with his parents and then you can see him when you want and you can hang out and be a part of his life and grow a relationship. But just like, steal this kid from his life is insane. Yea his friends, his home is like I hate this man too, especially like.
The age of twelve, like twelve to eighteen, Like those years are so like itself to have no relationship. It's so selfish.
It's like he's not thinking of the kid at all. He's thinking of himself.
No, because it's like I don't know. I'm judging that they're all in New York suburbs. It's not like anyone lives across the country or anything. You could definitely arrange some kind of visitation schedule where you like build a relationship, like you're saying it's crazy, Yeah, go.
To medieval times, go to his games. Yeah, the boys do play dates. Like you could be a part of his life. You don't have to snatch him as your own.
I hate him and just like and also the two v one aspect of moving in with two brothers is so like fucked up too. So Craigan is explaining what's going on to Tyler Slash Steven's adoptive parents, and they're like, we didn't do anything wrong, like he's our son, we've raised him. And Craigan says, yeah, but Tyler's father never consented to the adoption, so it's nullified like that. It's just that's it. And they're really really sad, and they're like,
you can't take him away from us. He's only ever known our home and us as his family. How can you do this to us? And like, honestly, Craigan, I'm just mad that your old pal Greevy didn't do enough to find out like who the dad was, because this all could have been avoided. But Cragan, I know. Craigan
and Cabot are walking, so you bet you're ass. They're talking and Cabot's saying she can't find him a foster home this late, so she's gonna have to put him in a shelter, which Craigan calls a hell hole, and he's like, why can't he just go with his maternal grandparents, who have a right of natural guardianship, and Cabot's like, the law does not give automatic custody to grandparents, and then Craigan like flips out on Alex and is like, don't think about the law, think about the kid, and
she's like, don't you think I am. It's like very tense with Craigan and Cabot, as it has been the whole episode, and you know, Cabot's like, everybody wants a piece of Tyler right now. Maybe the best place is for him to be somewhere neutral, and Craigan's like, tell that to his grandparents, and I also don't think some more neutral is like a shelter that Craigan describes as
really shitty and horrible. But the grandparents are now talking to Cragan and they're really upset and they're like, we lost our daughter and now you're saying we can't have our grandson. And Craigan's like, not unless a judge says you can, but you can apply for temporary custody. And he breaks the news that Tyler's biological dad, Rob is also probably going to claim his parental rights and that his rights supersede yours, and they're just like so sad.
They're like, Jennifer was our only child. This is like our only you know, family, and she's the grandmother is pissed at Craigan for giving them hope and then taking it away. So now Tyler's talking to Cragan. They're having like a sweet little outdoor moment, and he's like what
happens to me now? And he's like, you'll be in a temporary home until the judge decides, and he's like, I just want to go home to my parents, Like to the Blake's like, I don't really want any of this to be happening, and he's like, I don't care that the adoption was illegal. My parents loved me and they've always been good to me, and Craigan's like, I didn't want to take you away from your family, but I was just doing my job. I was just following the law. But my job is also to protect you.
Do you understand? And Tyler's like okay, but like I'm still I'm still annoyed. And then Craigan tells him that his maternal grandparents want to meet him, so right before they go in, Tyler's like, do I have to hug them? And I'm like, good instinct, Tyler, old people do smell
very weird. And so then they open the door and the grandparents are standing right there and they're like it's like a very sweet moment, Like their eyes are welled up with tears, and the grandmother calls him Steven and he's like, my name is Tyler, and they're like okay, hello Tyler, and it's just really emotional and the parent grandparents are crying and Tyler's like, please don't cry, Like yeah, really good acting. Yeah. The poor kid is like has
so many adults. He's carrying the emotions of so many adults right now, like these grandparents and all these people, and it's just like a lot for a twelve year old. So Cabot knocks on Cragan's door. They basically make up. They start to plain ice and work together, and Tyler is going to need a lag guardian, Cabot says, and
she's like, what if I volunteer? And Craigan's like, yeah, but the law favors the biological parents, which is true, and then Cabot says, the law also says that the kid is old enough and mature enough to decide who he wants to live with, and so if I'm his attorney, I'll fight for what he wants, which is to live with the Blakes. So now dun Dune, we're in court and Huang is testifying that Tyler is an articulate, intelligent twelve year old, well adjusted, good at school, lots of friends.
He is definitely the product of a happy home. And he says, They're like, oh, would you recommend him going
to live with his biological dad right now? And he's like, actually no, that would be basically like him waking up and hearing that his parents had died in a car crash, Like it would be a sudden traumatic loss, and that could lead at this age, with this kind of trauma, it could lead to behavior problems, depression, a lot of you know, bad things down the line, and Huang is like, I do not recommend at all that he go live
with his biodad. And next on the stand, Missus Blake, the adoptive mother, is on the stand showing a photo album of Tyler's milestones, like, you know, talking about his first birthday. We had one hundred people. It's like very sweet, and he's she says, he's the center of our lives. He gets love. We don't have a lot of money, but he does not want for anything, and she's terrified of losing him and says, please don't punish us for
someone else's crime. So now Rob's lawyer cross examines and is like, but can you imagine how Rob feels losing all those years? And it's like no, because he has two other sons and he was literally walking around in his twenties jizzing and every woman on campus and it doesn't really seem like he cares too. He knocked up.
And then he says, well, if your child was lost but taken in by a family and raised well and then you found him when you want him back, is that what you meant by the good point, Lisa.
Yeah, yeah, but now that you say it out loud, he wasn't trying to find him.
Yeah, you didn't know he existed. Yes, but so it's a little bits a different situation. Yeah, but so she has to say yes to that question, even though it's killing her the mom she's like, yes, I would want him back, and so it's very sad. And then Rob is on the stand being like, listen, I'm rich. I can provide for him. He'll have brothers his own age.
I don't know why that matters. Tyler is my flesh and blood, which I just find that like very arrogant, like just that you feel like because he's your like he's your flesh and blood, but like it was like from a relationship you didn't even care about, Like you didn't. It doesn't sound like you cared when she was murdered that much either, like you just saw the pick in
the paper, like I don't know. And he's like he admits that these adoptive parents did just as good of a job as he could have done, and he's like, it's imagine how hard it is for me to put them through this, Like he's kind of making it all about him. I just do not like this man, and it's and then I wrote in my notes the same thing as what you were saying, Lisa, like have visitation, let him stay in the life he's used to and you just finished a bitter custody battle with your ex.
That's what Cabot asks him, and then she goes, what if your wife had won sole custody like she was suing you for and you weren't able to see your kids whenever you wanted, And he goes, yeah, it would crush me. And then he apologizes to the Blakes on the stand. Why doesn't the kid get to decide?
It's like that's annoying to me too, Like, yeah, if you're claiming to care about the kid and he doesn't want to go with you, why don't you just leave it at that? It's like about this guy, Yeah, yeah, because I think the grandparents would be chill.
I think the grandparents would just be happy to.
Be in the in his life and not like, yes, you must move into this room, Like I think they would be chill.
So it's just this guy who's doing this all. Yeah, I hate I just hate this situation. It's terrible. So in Craigan's office. Cabot says, this case is ripping her guts out because it's all good people. Again, cab It, I don't really think that Rob is a great person. And Elliott and Olivia walk in and explain that all of Sanford's adoptions have been legit. There are no stolen babies that they can find, so this does seem like even though this man is a crook, he's not like
a kidnapper. And then Olivia's got a nice little piece of scoop. She's like, you know what, Linda, Rob's ex wife, gave birth to her son a month after Jennifer gave birth, and her hospital roommate was a client of Sanford's, and she said that she recommended Linda to Sandford. How do they know this? I don't know how Olivia would have possibly tracked down the hospital roommate of Linda and that she remembered what she said to her twelve years ago.
But that's what's happened, I guess. And they compared the signature on the adoption papers to Linda's signature on the DNA release forms, and Craigan's like, let's get Linda in here. So something's going on. The next scene is very classically lit dark interrogation scene. Linda looks like she's truly sitting under like one of those old timey solitary swinging light bulbs, and she's like, why do I care if my ex
gets to keep his love child. She's very cocky and she's very bitchy, and Craigan accuses her of intercepting the letter that Jennifer sent informing Rob that he is the father of her baby, and they say, why did you ask about an adoption attorney? And she goes, I knew Rob was cheating, and I didn't know he'd propose, so I just like wanted to have my options of maybe, you know, getting rid of this baby. Even though Rob says, I broke up with Jennifer because you know, Linda was pregnant.
So the timeline of this doesn't really work out because she had her baby a month after Jennifer, and if Jennifer was pregnant in that two weeks, that means Linda couldn't have been pregnant already. They've only been together for two weeks, so Linda, this is just impossible. This timeline Linda was in two weeks. No, they were together for two weeks, right, and then they broke up because Linda goes, I'm pregnant. That's impossible. Her baby's a month younger than
Linda than Jennifer's. Could she have given birth early? Uh oh, yeah, I guess it's possible. You're right. I guess it's possible. Jennifer gave birth like a month or two early or something. Yeah, that's possible. Okay. I thought I was about to write into IMGB with a strip continuity problem. But anyway, so it is all confusing this end.
Yeah, I mean, I love the twists in turns of it all, but it is confusing.
Yeah. So Jennifer's signature is on these adoption papers. They show it to her and they're like, this is your handwriting. We compared it to you know this other signature, Like this is yours. So they go, you got the letter, you went to see Jennifer. Something happened and Jennifer was dead, so you impersonated her and you took her baby to Mark Sandford. Craigan goes, just tell me you didn't mean to kill her, and I can help you, and she goes, I want a lawyer. So guilty as fuck that's exactly
what happened. Crazy twist, you know. But that's another reason why it's so insane that this guy, Oh, he worked this case to the bone. He worked it. Like it's like that you didn't talk to the roommate who would have told you about Rob and you would have found out that there was another woman and there was like other like either one of them could have been you know, suspects. So yeah, it's like Craig and your friends sucked. Yeah, And it's also very much me being like I could
be a cop. I've watched a lot of SVU, so who knows how it was really going back in that uh in real life, even though this isn't real. So back in court, the judge is like, yeah, this is a very different kind of case for me. Most of the time, nobody wants the kid, and now everybody wants this kid. I like, she's it's rare to see so many people pulling to get one kid, and so she talks to everybody.
She's like, I was explaining this episode to someone I wish I remembered, but they were like, what's it about this kid?
What does this kid have to offer? What's so great about this fucking kid. Yeah, they said he's popular and good, makes good grades. Maybe he's like a sweet little boy knows. So the judge is like, Rob, you're good, Blake's you're good. But the law recognizes the biological rights of the parent, so she awards custody to Rob Cook. So Cabot was just full of shit when she said that the court lets Tyler decide. That's just like not true, Like, well, I think the judge gets to overset anything. I guess.
I don't know. It's fucked up. The judge is fucked like yeah, like I think that there also should have been a part where Tyler took the stand to tell the judge what he wanted. But also I don't know, Like I am a CASA, so it's my responsibility to write a letter. I write a report to a judge like every six months, saying this is what she wants, and if it was something like this, it's like usually I feel like what I've seen in family court is like the judge takes into account what the child wants,
especially if they're of an age where they can decide. Obviously, an eight year old might be like I want to go live with my grandma, because she doesn't lets me do whatever, you know, But like a twelve year old can say, this is where I want to be, so it's it is. It's kind of surprising to me. This verdict also not covered at any point. Now he has to live with the two sons of his mother's killer,
whoa like, are you kidding me? He has to just be there with his two brothers and be like, hey, so remember when your mom killed my mom and then it ruined my whole fucking life because I got adopted and then I had to come back to you guys, Like this would not pass. Like to me, this would
not pass like home screening or psychological screening. If that woman was on trial for the murder or like ended up getting arrested, like getting convicted, this would be considered I think, like psychologically unwell circumstances.
No, I hope mister Cook comes to his senses.
Yeah, So the Blakes are crushed when the judge reads the verdict and the uh tyler runs to them and hugs them. The grandparents look sad, everyone is bummed. It's not nice, it's not great. And then Cab walking out with Craigan and she's like, I really prefer Pop prosecuting. At least then I know who the bad guy is. And Rob and the Blakes are standing on the courthouse steps and they're at least talking, so it sounds like everyone's going to have a relationship with Tyler, whether or
not he's living under anyone's roof. They're all it's not like Rob is saying, Okay, say go bye to your parents. You're never going to see them again. And Craigan and Tyler like share this sort of sad look and it kind of looks like Tyler's like, what's up, dude, I thought you were gonna help me, and like that's like the look kind of and then they just that's it and it's very sad. And then that is dick Wolf.
Maybe there'll be an episode where Tyler kills Craigan. Yes, And are they going to let him go by Tyler? Are they going to start forcing Steven upon him? I think Tyler. I think Tyler for sure, because it's not like Rob named him that, you know, like his dead mom named him that. I think the grandparents would be the only ones holding on to Steven.
But yeah, that's that.
A good episode for season three, like to have that much any twists and turns and fun stuff.
Yeah, it's a great episode. Yeah, totally right. And I know nothing about the crime that this is based on, and I like to do that on purpose. I leave my Lisa crimes. I like to keep myself virginal for those it's fucking sick dude, We'll be right back. Oh right.
This is mostly based on a crime a murder, bad bad man named John Robinson, and of course he was seen as the ideal family man. I mean, all these articles are just like. He coached his four children's various sports teams in the Kansas City area Sunday school teacher volunteered as a scout master. He you know, he loved to mow his grass and grill burgers. People are like, he smiled, he laughed, he told stories, good handshake, congenial type of guy.
This is like literally also the description of BTK.
Yeah, immaculate yard, elaborate decorations for holidays, which obviously made him the most perfect con man manipulator of all time. Do not trust anyone with a well manicured lawn that is a murderer waiting to happen. Any dude who's like I love my lawn. That's a killer. Check his shed. So he actually went to prison in nineteen eighty seven for fraud and then he got out in nineteen ninety three.
And then in June.
Two thousand is when authorities uncovered bodies of multiple women in Beryl's Dexter style on his farm and in a storage locker.
Baryl Girls. That season helped me up. Girls. That season was really fucked up.
It was scary because people are like, oh, after the Trinity Killer, Dexter was bad, and it's like, no, it's not. I mean it had season five is still good.
Well Julia Styles, because Julia Styles is like a living victim, like The Trinity Killer didn't really have living victims, and it was Johnny Lee Miller. I don't know.
I thought it was good in the barrel of it all, and just like having a group of men get together to murder together, It's just like it was scary and believable and like, oh.
So yeah.
So then there was barrels and one of the women this is how it all ties together, was found that she had a baby girl at the time of her murder, and the baby was alive and now a teenager living with john Robinson's brother no an investigator who worked the case, Rick Ross, said he was one of the most dangerous criminals that he had ever encountered, and he said that to ABC News.
So this is a done done.
To like the Max, and now we'll travel back in time and learn about this case. So this fucker was married in nineteen sixty four and he married a woman named Nancy Joe Lynch and he started working at Chicago Hospital and Nancy Joe then eventually managed the trailer park where they ended up living, which I think was helpful to him to get away with stuff, but I don't know.
So in nineteen eighty four, Robinson put up a help wanted ad in the paper for a sales rep job and hired nineteen year old Paula Godfrey and let her know that she would be traveling to Texas for some training, and she disappeared. And the training was for screen printing. So I guess in the eighties screen printing you had to leave the state like you couldn't learn how to screen print. So Godfrey's father confronted Robinson, who said he
didn't know what he was talking about. But then right after that interaction, letters signed by his daughter started arriving saying she was safe and fine. So then in nineteen eighty four, around Christmas time, he then started an organization called Kansas City Outreach Program to help down trodden women. Is that a word we still use today? Down trodden? I don't know sad sad women with no luck. So he went to Silver Hospitals and social workers and told
them about his program that he's starting. And Karen Gaddis is a former social worker, and she said that he explained the program worked with young pregnant women or women with newborns to help them get them back on their feet in a place to live. And after Christmas he called and said, guess what, I got a girl. I got a girl from the women's shelter in Kansas City and he met with her and she agreed to go into his program. So that woman, her name is Lisa Stassy,
and she was nineteen years old at the time. And there's another social worker named Sharon Turner Jackson.
So her and.
Gaddis both were like, yeah, we were definitely suspicious of his desire to find needy white women with children right before Christmas, like the night before Christmas. So they definitely were like, Okay, this is weird, but I guess not weird enough. And it seemed like Lisa and John connected. So he put up Lisa and her four month old daughter, Tiffany up at the Roadway Inn hotel, and he promised her to help her get to Texas to train for the silk screening job, like everyone wanted a silk screen
Like I don't understand. So he also offered her eight hundred dollars a month for living expenses and promised to find her a babysitter. And so he really promised her a lot of stuff that obviously got her excited to
like come stay. So then cut to one day, Sassy's family got a call from Lisa and she was hysterically crying and she was telling them that she had to sign four pieces of paper and they're like, don't sign anything, don't do it, and she said here, they come now, and she hung up and that was the last time that her family ever heard from her. But then they received a letter that was supposedly from Lisa, but they knew it was fucking weird because she sucked it typing
and she wouldn't have typed a letter. They're like, she wouldn't This isn't her And I think computers were like pretty.
Rare in the eighties, so I don't know.
Yeah, So that was eighty four and now it's eighty seven and it's time for like his fraud charges in prison time and we'll get into more details.
About the fraud.
So but right before his arrest, another woman in her mid twenties disappeared named Catherine Clampett. So that's what happened right before he got into jail. Now he's in prison, right and he starts a relationship with the prison librarian named Beverly Bonner, who is married to the prison doctor. So he's just like this master manipulator. So he starts dating the librarian. And once he left prison, Bonner left the prison divorced her husband to be with Robinson. But
also it's like where is Nancy Joe? They are still married, So he's still married to Nancy Joe. He is having this like affair with this prison librarian he met in prison while being a criminal, and also had this other relationship right before with this woman named Catherine, and also is helping single women. Okay, whatever, So Bonner went missing. Obviously, like is anyone surprised Bonner is missing, but he continued to collect her monthly alimony checks and then continue to.
Sought out other women.
The authority is like, once all the bodies are found, think that Bonner was died in nineteen ninety four, but they can't really be sure.
Now.
Then the Internet happened and he got five computers, and he had a ton of aliases, and he started searching for sex in the BDSM community. So he was this balding grandfather but also was advertising himself as a sadist looking for love slaves. And his wife, Nancy was just like in the next room, typing away. Like while he was typing away searching for victims, she was just living her life, like not really suspicious at all, like kind of you know whatever, didn't care where this money was
coming from. From all these checks, he's stealing whatever. Yeah, like how'd you get these five computers? We live in a trailer part. So in nineteen ninety seven he met Isabella Luika and she was a young Polish immigrant and art student.
Do I hear another screen printing coming on? Okay? But a young Polish immigrant art student.
She was living in Indiana and he just was trying to convince her to come to Kansas and to be his submissive, and she disappears as well, and he like, basically he had this whole thing where he's like, I'm rich, I travel a lot, I'll take care of everything. Just come be my slave and I'll pay for everything. And okay, so this is where it's like, I just don't I understand when you're desperate and you need help. But like he said, listen, you're gonna be so busy. I need
you to sign some blank pieces of paper. And it's like, wouldn't you not do that?
I don't know. It's like yeah, me question it.
And you can't like think how you're gonna act in these fucked up situations, and maybe it's like, oh this is too good to be true, like yeah, I get like someone to help pay for me, and I get to work and like get fucked. I don't know, like hell yeah. But he would later obviously send these letters to women's families, posing as them so the relatives didn't think they had been killed.
This reminds me of at my school, I think maybe my elementary, my middle school. You were allowed to write the note yourself as long as your parents signed it like to get out of a homework or get out of whatever, and I would go, Dad, can I have your autograph? I would like pretend like I was collecting autographs of everyone in the family and then like write a note above it. I was a con person. Anyway, I think it only worked like one time.
No, that's sweet though, it's like definitely a little bit different. And also like I understand that the times were different, so like we didn't have constant communication with our families, but or these are different types of people. But like also just sending a letter would be strange, Like if I'm used to talking to my child and suddenly I get just these letters without anything. But they had time to call, Like they had time to write but not call,
Like that would just be suspicious. Yeah, it would just not It's not normal. But like I said, they didn't. It's not like everyone had computers and phones at the time.
Right.
So now it's nineteen ninety nine.
We're in Newport, Michigan, and Robinson scams someone named Suzette Troughton who is twenty eight.
So he is he moving around the country with all this well she no, he's convincing people to come to Kansas. Oh got it?
Okay, So he's from Illinois, he works in Chicago stuff. But then we're actually going to get to it. So he lived in Kansas, but he went back and forth and committed crimes in Kansas and Missouri and played a lot of jurisdiction games to continue to like.
Keep getting out of crimes.
Gotcha, And so he like played the system to keep getting away with crimes. But then at the end it fucked him because he had to do two trials, one in Kansas and won in Missouri for all of his crimes. So he thought he was like being so slick, but then he ended up getting fucked at the end.
Okay because of it.
But yeah, he lived in olith Kansas in this trailer park that his wife managed, and then was convincing people off the internet to come to Kansas because he's rich and he just needed help and he would pay for everything.
Ted, gotcha? Okay? Cool.
So for Susette, the scam was not b DSM six. It was he persuaded her to work as the caretaker for his fake elderly father. In reality, his dad had been dead for a long long time. But what's so wild about this? She went out there and visited him to twice. The job seemed legit, so I don't know what fucking old man he found. He also showed her
his mansion and guest house. Don't know what these things were, how he did it whatever, Yeah, but he made it seem very legit, and she was gonna be making sixty two thousand dollars a year and she was super excited about it and to use the money to train to become a licensed nurse and then eventually and registered nurse. He picked her up from the airport in a limo like it seemed legit, and then he you know, she was told that she'd be traveling for a month to
start the job. And after she disappeared, her mother started getting emails from her. But she knew something was off because everything was spelled right, and she goes, no, no, no, this is not my daughter because everything was spelled right, so she knew something was off. But then the spelling games continued. But the things that she did spell wrong that was weird was her dog's names, and she would never spell her own dog's names wrong. She loved those
fucking dogs. And so this disappearance is whenever kind of came crumbling down. So within days there was a task force. Because the mom was like, these are not emails for my daughter. She would like where are these dogs? She would not leave without the like you need to figure shit out. So the authorities released the names and in some cases photos of the women and the baby who
disappeared that might have been linked to Robinson. So just as a little recap, there's Paula Godfrey nineteen, reported missing in nineteen eighty four. We have Lisa Stassey nineteen and her five month old daughter Tiffany in nineteen eighty five. We have Catherine Klampett twenty seven, reported missing in nineteen eighty seven, and then Isabella kay Luika twenty two, missing in nineteen ninety nine, and all of the women were living or staying in Overland Park, Kansas at the time
they vanished. So then they found the dogs. They found Pica and Harry Susette's dogs abandoned at the trailer park where Robinson lived. So on March first, two thousand, they realized that like these abandoned dogs were found at the the trailer park, and that's the same day that Susette disappeared.
So they found one of the dogs adopted already with a new family, and when they called him Pika, his ears perked up and his tail started wagging, so he responded to his given name, so they knew something was they were close to something. I know it's a different spelling, but it is the name of the disorder that the kid gets when he licks the lead off the cars.
In the other episode of That's.
So Funny, I was thinking Pika chew, I was saying, okay. So then they made Suzette's mom, Carolyn Trout, and a tape recorder. They made her like they didn't make it for her, so they gave her this tape recorder to call Robinson and to tell her like hey, you know, to tell him like listen, where's my daughter. And he's like, don't worry, chill out. She left with someone else, Like it has you know, she she ditched me, I have
no idea where she is. And Carolyn kept pushing him and was like, I think I need to report her to the authority and he's like, don't report her missing.
I'm sure you'll hear from her soon.
And like clockwork, letters started arriving to all the family right after the call, and again, they knew it wasn't her because the dogs names were not spelled correctly, and that's not what she would do.
She was obsessed with those dogs.
So they continued to follow him as he brought women in from all over the US to put up in hotels, and the investigators would rent the adjoining rooms and being and like pay attention to what's up, So you are right in terms of like he was bringing other women to Kansas. They also then went through his trash and found shredded documents and there was one that helped them locate a storage locker. It's like, how many other people were they going to watch him bring until something terrible happened?
Like it is fucked up to just sit in a hotel room like terrorizing these women, I don't know.
So they had to make a move.
So after he was trying to lure down women from some farm, they decided they'd had enough and moved in and they arrested him at the Santa Barbara States Mobile Home Park in olaf But I love that it's called Santa Barbara Estates. It's like making it sound like coastal and this like this trajectory of this crime in this recap is like as confusing as the episode.
Honestly, there's like so much happening. Yeah.
So June two thousand, he is held and charged with aggravated sexual battery of two out of town women and stealing five hundred dollars worth of sex toys from one of the women. So two women that he met in local hotels for some sado masochistic sex, but he ended up assaulting and robbing them, and so he was arrested on Friday, and they spent the weekend making all the discoveries.
So he was bringing in these women.
The cops had this room they were watching, and still these women got assaulted. That's what's so fucked up that the cops just kind of like used live women as bait without them knowing that they were bait. Like it's fucked up. Yeah, but so you would just use rollins. Yes, So because of the investigations starting whatever, So Friday, he's arrested for harassing these two women, assaulting them, and robbing
them of all of their sex choice. And during the weekend they started like a full hardcore investigation and they needed to find evidence. So his farm was fifty seven miles south of Kansas City, and some hardworking cadaver dogs smelled some stuff around the trash and police found barrels and blood started pouring out of the barrel and once they looked in, that's where they found Suzette Trappin the
second barrel was Isabella Luiica. Now in the storage locker that was in Raymore, Missouri, was fifty four miles northeast of where he lived, and there were three more barrels there. And the manager of the storage unit was interviewed by the New York Times, and you know, they were like, yeah, he would pay his rent on time, often in person, and then in quotes he would run through here, I
guess to check on his bones. And I just thought that was, oh my god, he would run through here, I guess to check on his bones, maybe just like the word bones.
But it just made me kind of like, I mean, I think it's also a very funny quote from a person not who does not comprehend that this is like a serial killer. Yeah.
So then some of the women they found in there, they didn't even know we're missing. So that's like Bonner, who is the prison library, and they found they found a mother daughter duo named Sheila and Debbie Faith.
The duo had not.
Been seen or heard from since nineteen ninety four, and Debbie had cerebral palsy and used a wheelchair. So he really like went after people that like really couldn't get away. He convinced them to come out because they were living off of only one thousand dollars a month from the government and food stamps, and they were in a really
desperate situation. So we moved them to Kansas and then got her a po box and then continue to collect her government checks for years and pulled in over eighty thousand dollars in their checks over all of the years.
So he's like a con man.
It's basically like I think we talked about this with other killers or serial killers, like they don't want to kill, or maybe they do. It's like it's just a necessary thing they have to do to get what they want, you know. It's like, well, yeah, she was making too much noise, so I had to kill her. She was annoying. So that's what this guy. It's like, it's not even about the murder. Maybe it is, but it is about like I want that money, so you have to die.
Yeah, So was he like sexually assaulting them, Like, how is he murdering them? Like, oh, I'll tell you about that.
Oh well, some of them he was meeting up to have sex with, right, Like and Bonner he had that relationship with. Yeah, And I don't know what he did to the other women's It doesn't explicitly say that there was like any sort of rape and stuff. Yeah, that's not like what he's known for, right, Right, So the evidence started to pile at this point. There were seats from the roadway in from like nineteen eighty five, where Lisa Stassey's name was on the receipt of staying there.
They found these blank letters with the signature of his victims. So he was charged with five murders in June two thousand and he was held on a five million dollar bond, and then his defense attorney would be a great SVU character in terms of like evil. A direct quote from The New York Times from Robinson's lawyer Byron Cirilla was, I resent the fact that people are now claiming that mister Robinson, either directly or indirectly, as a serial killer.
And it's like, okay, you resent that he killed people? Like it's just such a crazy out of touch quote to me.
Even if you are you killed more than two people, you're a serial killer. I mean, like that's just the fact multiple barrels.
Yeah, I wonder if that Deck season Dexter was like kind of inspired by this. To be honest, I would want to hit up on some of the writers and find out or I guess.
I guess a lot of people can hold people in barrels. But this is just so interesting that this man just goes by John Robinson. He doesn't have a middle name, which most of these people do, most serial killers do, and he was never given a name or anything. But I think that's like you usually get a name when they can't find you for a long time.
And maybe he was, but he was killing for a long time, but they weren't even looking for him.
But they weren't even connect it. It wasn't like they were like, oh, we're looking for the Green River killer because we just keep finding all these bodies in the Green River. It was like they found him and then they found all his bodies.
Yeah, which is scary because that means how many fucking how many like Richard Ramirez style without any like actual patterns and different things are there, you know.
But Richard was a creep out and about.
Like people knew he was shady like this, Like this guy was like, oh yeah, he's so funny, grilled a lot his long looked great.
Yeah, that's scary, like the guys that have like the mask on of like me Joe, Yeah yeah.
And for just I mean, obviously he like compiled a lot of money, but like to kill a mother daughter for one thousand dollars a month just like pretty fucked up. Yeah, pretty fucked up. So he's a ruthless motherfucker who used whatever promised would work as a lure. Like that's the thing. He didn't have an MO. It was like come work for me, or yeah, come fuck me, or you know. Also, they connected to him to four people who had gone missing. I mean, there's just like a lot of different connections
and I just don't know what's going on. But July two thousand, Morrison, who prosecuted the case in Kansas, added an aggravated interference with parental custody charge involving and carrying away of the baby of Tiffany's Stassy. So Tiffany, Lisa's daughter from the eighties, was adopted by a Midwestern family and at the time of this article living with them, and that couple though, was Robinson's brother, so is Donald
Robinson and his wife. So the police received a tip that the adoption had to do with the brother and stuff. So that's why they finally went and got DNA samples from the family and it was confirmed that the fifteen year old was Tiffany. Don't know who tipped off the police or in any way, but somebody did and it is Tiffany. So her adopted uncle and family member killed
her fucking mom and gave her to the brother. So like they were at fucking family parties and hanging out, like she's this little kid hanging out with her uncle John. She didn't see him a lot because you know, they were in Illinois.
But that is so fucked.
She said that she didn't know the truth about John, but said she always felt weird around him, with an off putting feeling in the gut of her stomach. But John, the thing is, he brought fake documents to the couple and helped facilitate it and had a certificate of adoption, but it was not a legal adoption.
But he had all of this ready, so is he. It's really wild.
And they do believe that the brother and his wife were victims of John Robinson too and were not at all in on the crime. And Tiffany says that she actually remembers her mom crying when she found out, going what did John do? How could he do this to us? So it is pretty clear that they were trying to have a kid and they couldn't. And I think John was like, I'm going to get my brother a kid. I think that's what happened.
So like he thought he was doing Oh so do you think he took Lisa on purpose? For Tiffany, it wasn't like oops, I killed this woman that has a kid. Now I got to get rid of the kid.
No, that's why those social workers thought it was shady that right before Christmas he was looking to help single moms and like young like.
Women my kids Christmas shopping for his brother. Yeah, that's what it was. That's fucked. Oh my god.
So it was the guys of like, oh, I have this program and then it's like, oh, look I have this baby.
Here are the forms.
And then he also did take money from his brother, like his brother owed him fees for this adoption, PA, like this fake adoption that was not legal. Wow, Like no basement for this guy, No, not at all. So the trials started in two thousand and two in Kansas. Morrison, the prosecutor said that there was over twenty three thousand pages of police reports and more than one hundred witnesses. Where were those witnesses before? As just rolling the barrels around?
I like, what so, Kara. They discovered eighteen hammers on his property and it was concluded from the autopsies that he killed his victims with a hammer, but the technicians were not able to connect the specific hammer to the murders.
Yikes, that's brutal, brutal. It took the jury less than a day to deliver a guilty verdict. On October twenty ninth, two thousand and two, he was sentenced to death. January two thousand and three, Won jurer of the death sentence, told ABC News that since he was such a good con man, like even from jail, he conned Beverly Bonner and like, they were afraid to give him life because the same thing could happen, and so it was the only appropriate thing was death because he, like you said,
has no basement ceiling. No, Yeah, so more twists, like I said, since he committed crimes in Kansas and Missouri. Once that trial wrapped, they sent him to Missouri for an another one, and with all his scams and crimes, he played jurisdiction games, like I said, so this like
screwed him, which I kind of like. In Missouri, the authorities offered him a deal where if he pled guilty and then gave infoo where the remains of the three women who had not been found yet, And so the plea happened and they like he like never gave any info at all, but they took so like what did they earn if?
Yeah, well I give him a deal if he's not even going to give you the names or where they are. But a plea deal went through and he still did not cooper.
Also, he was probably like what is it? What deal could possibly be good for me? When I am already getting the death penalty in Kansas? Maybe yeah, but like Missouri can't really really threaten me now because I'm going to die in this other state. I don't know.
But also like fucking I mean, we're asking someone to like not be a piece of shit when yeah, really a piece of shit.
Yeah.
He is now in his late seventies on death row in Kansas at the El Dorado Correctional Facility and is appealing his death sentence. Now updates on Tiffany's stassy. So she was sixteen, you know, when she found out the truth about her life. So Tiffany was raised as Heather. So Heather's biological father wanted to meet her, but she was confused and scared and said she didn't want to meet him. But she did become really close to her maternal grandmother, who is Pat Sylvester, who passed away in
twenty eighteen. Since the adoption was not legal, the Robinson's actually legally adopted her when she was eighteen, and she decided to keep the given name that she got Heather, and she liked her parents, so she stayed there. As of twenty twenty, she is thirty five. She married a man and is a proud mother of some boys. And she is also now looking to connect with her biological father, Carl. She can't find him, and she's tried really hard and
wants to make amends and move forward. She just wasn't ready at the time of finding out, and she also still hoping to hopefully find Lisa's remains one day to properly bury her mother.
Oh my god, that's intense. Yeah, and that is that. Yeah, that is the case of John Robinson. Oh my gosh, thank you for all of that research. I'm so surprised I haven't heard of this man, especially because I know about the barrel murders from Dexter.
Yeah. I don't know why we don't know more about him, because it is also like salacious, you know what I mean. Yeah, there wasn't even that much like articles about him or pieces, you know.
It was just like a couple of giant newspapers. And it's like I can kind of see why someone like him would be able to get away with it in the eighties. But then it's like in the nineties, it's so funny that he like embraced technology because it's like, dude, the only reason you're not busted is because there's no way to trace you. And now you're just hop you have five computers now and you're just gonna let people
like make a full trail. But maybe people didn't really know yet, like that your computer stores everything forever.
And if there's more, if you want more. There is a twenty twenty like there's a twenty twenty eight. Ooh okay, good time and they talk to Heather and stop. So he's fucked though he's probably one of the worst people we've talked about, and we talk about terrible people. Yeah, well now we you know, we do have a legend. We have a true fucking legend coming onto our show. So get your fucking panties out of a twist. Untwist those panties and get ready, guys. Today's guest has an
IMDb resume like you wouldn't believe. We are talking the talented mister Ripley, snowfalling on Caesar's American Horse Story, Modern Family, and Aliza Trigger classic How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days? You guys know her today as Margaret Talmadge. Please enjoy our chat with legendary Celia Weston.
Well before us.
View, I do want to touch on How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days, my ultimate favorite movie, and my parents were from Russia, but we learned bullshit from that movie.
We play all the time.
Such an iconic scene and I was wondering if there were memories if you get stopped on the street and if people think of you when they play bullshit now forever, like we do as a family.
Everyone knows that film. It has never not played and I don't think. I don't think there's been a day since it's released that it was allowed to play on television that it hasn't. And I know I watched it this past week, you know, I can't.
Get enough of it.
But one day, some time ago now, I was going to a screening on Houston Street, the Far East theater there that has some multiplex and they have special screenings there sometimes, And as usual, I was early and I haven't looked down at the box office, and I thought I saw a familiar figure and I just kind of walked towards it, and it was Matthew mcck just deciding
if he wanted to see a film. You know, he has some time to kill, and so I just walked up behind him and I said, it's your mom, and he turned around and we had a nice big hug and I said, that film, my gosh, it's just been a cash cow.
And he said, the gift that keeps on giving.
I thought, yeah, I bet your gift package is a little bit bigger than mine.
Yeah, but I'm not complaining.
I love it. That's so funny. I love you going up to Matthew mcconey on the street for a hug. That's so fun. And then we interviewed the actor Daniel Sunjata on our podcast a few weeks ago, and he mentioned this show Echoes. And then when I was looking up what you've been up to, I saw you're going to be an Echoes and it looks amazing. What can you tell us about that project?
Well, you probably know a lot more about it than I do, but I did have it in my notes because I loved doing it.
I loved my part.
The writing was beautiful, and we worked with women directors and I'm sorry we still have to make that distinction, but and women, I second ads and that was thrilling. The costume designer was wonderful and helped so much in making distinctive my character.
Because you know, I'm I'm not lit. I don't have the Internet.
Or mart phone, so I can't keep checking in for these things. But if you know when it's airing, tell me.
Oh, we would love to know. I don't know. I'm not sure, but it sounds like it's going to be one of those Netflix bingeable shows that everybody's obsessed with.
To me, of course, I don't have Netflix.
Yeah, well, so let me ask you. I mean, I waste most of my life on my cell phone, computer, laptop.
So what are you are you reading?
What do you do with your lovely days that you're not sucked in by a cell phone?
Well, I text and I'm addicted to television and it's an occupational hazard, so I have no shame about it.
Well, let's let's dive into your Let's dive into this episode Stolen that you are a main character in. I know it is from many many years ago, season three of SVU, so when they were a little baby show before they became the juggernaut that they are now. And I don't know if you remember, but like you know, you your character Captain Cragan comes to see you after many many years of your daughter's murder case, like kind of going cold. And I've never seen anybody happier to
see Captain Craigan. You're like, it's Captain Craigan. I was just wondering if you liked working with Dan Fluorrek. We got to speak to him on our podcast and we love him, and we had a lot of scenes with him.
Yes, I think he's very appealing. Obviously that shows from his endurance on the series. I tell you what I remember, especially was what a beautiful home we were in. And I have no idea where that is in New York?
Is that does that exist?
It's like a just after turn of the century, beautiful construction and craftsmanship and all these homes.
Do you know where we shot it?
You know, they just drove me there.
I know.
That's what all the actors say. We're always like, where were you in that scene? And they go, we just get in a van and then we're in a new place, like we don't.
Know, we're in a trailer.
Yeah, you know.
Don't call us, We'll call you.
And but it was beautiful and I was happy for them to at least have that having lost their daughter.
Yeah, that was a beautiful I.
Do remember this scene, the last scene for us in Captain Craigan's office, when our grandson is being introduced to us for the first time since his abduction, and we're in Craigan's office and the door open send boys brought into us, And I do remember how impactful that was.
And that it was short and sweet.
I don't even know if we had lines, but I do remember I had this amount of time to live everything that she was really feeling and was gratified that that did happen.
I felt as an actor.
But then to see it, to see actual a real flood of actually.
Dropping dripping with a like a shadow as they came down on that all right, that you know you want to have the real emotion but then also have real water works with a shadow.
Yeah, I was. I actually noticed that. I was. I thought that scene was so emotional and really powerful, and I was like, how did these actors get their eyes to like fill up with tears and then only let like one or two juicy tears fall like at a certain time, Like it's really it was really impressive. I don't know. Do you, like, what do you usually do? Do you are you good at crying on cue? Do you usually think of something super sad in your life?
Or you know, you just live it and you have ways to get yourself there. But I do remember in working on Ang Lee's film Ride with the Devil. It was a Civil War era film and I was a widowed farm wife.
I won't make you go through the whole story.
But a battle between union soldiers and renegades non soldiers happens in my home and there's a big shootout with my young daughter's life and jeopardy and mine, And so I remember aang asking me, you know, I was crying because of the circumstances, but I remember him asking me for a tear on on like a word, and while I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do this shucker, And I did. And they didn't use that shot in the scene at all, but no, I know, but you know, I was glad I could deliver the goods.
Well, back to SVU, do you have an opinion on what should have happened to your grandson?
What did happen?
They sent him with his.
Biological father d Yeah, we didn't know about or the biological dad didn't know he existed. So they took him from his adoptive parents and gave him to the biological dat And we were pissed.
I see that.
I guess we just felt just knowing he was alive and could be in our lives somehow was what my takeaway on it. So and then best and those I do remember being in the court scene because I remember Stephanie Marsh coming over and introducing herself to me. We didn't have anything to do but reaction shots in the gallery, you know, in the court scene. But she came over and introduced herself, and I thought she was just charming.
I'm sorry, that's all.
I took away from No, that's totally fine. We were just like, let him visit his grandparents and let him stay with his adopted parents. We had lots of thoughts, you know, but that's our job. And have you always lived in New York, well, bless your hearts as Southern gal.
No, I've been here since drama school, since college.
Do you tend to just book a lot of Southern roles, because I mean, I'm sure you have, like you've gone to drama school. I'm sure you can like hide your accent. But do you think it's just like something about you you just book all these roles as a Southern lady or.
I know that I bring an authenticity to it, and I take a lot of pride in that, because there's nothing more heinous to a Southerner than the lack of.
That and rendering a Southern persona.
And I have a very good ear so I'm happy to be able to delineate pretty specifically between who's from where and they're level of education, their economics of their lives and things like that. It always just depends on the writing, you know, and the role as you guys know, That's what draw.
Is one of my big story.
I was gonna tell you to tell Celia about seeing Palms in the movie theater.
Oh yes, I saw Poems in the movie theater with my new baby, Like I had like a two month old baby with me, and I took her to see Palms with some friends, and I just like loved that movie so much, and I guess I kind of wanted to know what it sounds like. You really appreciated the experience on echoes of having all these female directors, and I was wondering, like about your experience on Palms with this like powerhouse of actresses and a mostly female cast.
Oh yes, it was wonderful. It's a third film I've done with Diane Keaton.
On the other two she directed, and I just admired her so much. Of course, the location was outside of Atlanta, and it was incumbent upon us to make out a Southern character.
But I love that.
I mean, I knew that woman like mother's milk, you know that all of this superficiality of being so welcoming and gracious and yet underneath just this is my world and you're just maybe in it, but conscribe or get out, all couched in that solemn nicety and welcoming.
So I loved that role that I got to be the villain.
I was wondering, You've played so many characters in so many different roles. Is there is there ever like a Is there ever like a role that you're like, well, I wish I got cast as that like a like something you're dying to play.
Oh my gosh, let's start over and just talk about that.
It's a cruel world. Yes, that has definitely happened. And I've had.
Letters, you know, more than one actually from directors after did something did not go my way saying, you know, maybe we should have done this together.
Ooh, like letters of regret. That must feel good.
I'm saying, that must go good.
Yeah, it does.
I mean it's not like I have thirty on a wall somewhere, but when it happens, you go, well, yeah, me too.
By way, if you came back to a law and order franchise or you know, specifically s view would you what kind of character would you like to play?
Have you played a killer?
Have I played a killer?
We need you back as like, oh killer, No one would suspect are you gay?
Oh my gosh.
I probably have to play it in a caller here and embraces and canes, just to do the actually take a person out without if it's just mashing some pills and putting it in a drink.
Yeah, I think I could do that.
Oh yeah, I mean they don't. They don't show a lot of murders in action on us. For you, we usually just find a body, you know, that's true. So I think we could easily.
Yeah.
I can imagine telling detectives like please leave my house without a warrant, you know, family.
I can see that in my fantasy. This has been so wonderful. I don't know if you have anything like to add about, you know, an interaction with iced tea or something, but you don't. You don't have to if you don't.
We had so little interaction with the actual cast. You know just what I said, because Dan Floord came to our house and then we're in the courtroom as supernumeraries and with cutting to reaction shots. We weren't ever you know, being interrogated in a room or those juicy things and where they're trying to get our fingerprints on a coke can or that stuff.
Get to do that, didn't get a coke out of it?
No, no, yeah, we need you back on the show. That'll be my request.
What an icon.
And obviously love a lady that stays in New York, Like I feel like all the coolest actresses we talked to are always like.
She's just like a Southern actress, like swishing around New York being like hello, Matthew McConaughey, it's mega mama. I love that.
Like, yeah, so accomplished. We really get to talk to the best. I was watching Old Drag Race, like I set up top and like Dennis O'Hare was a judge, and I'm like, we fucking talked to him.
Yeah, it's kind of wild, yeah, yeah yeah.
And then our friend Joel Kinbooster was like, oh, I'm shocked that you were able to get him, and I'm like, honey, have you seen who else we get Dennis o hair should be so lucky.
No, we loved him. Oh my god, he was a dream. This was a twisted one. Yeah, the real life case was super twisted. The case in the episode was just kind of one of those classic SVU like more like morality quandaries that they give you, like what's the right move here? You know, I didn't really think what happened in the episode was the right move, but whatever.
No.
I but yeah, they should have given the boys.
They should He should have been able to stay with his adoptive family and just like visit his highlation. Yeah, and then he could have like a big fun family. But like what the fuck just being like nope, you're out of there. I hate that dad, and I only think of him as the sex and the city guy who likes to be spanked, so I can't even take him seriously as a father. I'm like, go home and watch your sick o porn, sir. But yeah, the crime was upsetting.
Yeah, I mean these kind of crimes I feel like, don't really happen anymore where someone like is able to go untraced, like luring people across the country because like they I mean, he started to have like email, right, and that's kind of how he got busted.
Yeah, and also and it's also twisted and you I think you do jokes about this right about like said Bundy having a girlfriend, Yeah, quiet girl, Like I also this man had a wife as he's just like luring women to their deaths.
I mean, Fritzel had his own daughter in the basement and his mom and his wife had no idea her mom like it's it's really I wonder if it's like they know but they can't face it, or they really don't know. I mean, like when you hear the Green River killer's wife talk about him, she's like he was a perfect husband. And this man murdered. I think he's one of the most prolific serial killers of all time.
He murdered like upwards of fifty women and mostly sex workers, and he just had this wife who was like, he was the best husband. And actually when he was married to her, the killings went down. I don't know, I don't know. That's fucked, Like it.
Is fucked, and that he is not more known, like the fact we didn't know more about him when he like inspired Dexter episodes too.
Yeah, with all these yeah, how some of these things. It's it's interesting because It's like it's like how we talked about how the the shark eyed guy who kill all all his kids, Like I forgot the name of that Wes Marcus Weston, Like that was buried by the the case of Scott Peterson, or like right now, I feel like the only reason we're paying attention to Amberherd and Johnny Depp is because there's like not really anything else. There's like nothing else going on in the news to
like rival it that. You know that, So there's just these certain crimes that dip like that pediatrician that molested all those children. Why is that not Why is that not something we all know about? You know, Like it's crazy, like you're looking up that shit in like Delaware newspapers that that's it. Like it's crazy what gets national attention, is all I'm saying.
Yeah, Well, after talking about Dexter, I was like, wait, are we promised to season two for New Blood?
And I don't think we are. I think that they'll do it right.
I want it. I want some ghost stuff. I want it. I just want Michael Seahall working, you know.
I beg him. I believe in his talent, and I just I want him really well, and that could be part of the problem is he might have something else going on. I mean, it's kind of hit it hinges on him.
You don't think that.
There's a possible like HBO show in development with that guy now, because I would have known about it. I'm a big fan. Okay, she's just got Google alerts for Michael C. Hall.
No, I'm gonna look it up right now if he has anything in pre production. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I feel like I would have known if he has an upcoming project, yeah, upcoming projects one? All right, he's in the Gettysburg address. Okay, maybe that was about Lincoln's getty Burgh. Okay, so he's in something not interesting that sucks. Oh, Jason Alexander's in it. Good for him.
It's just like a historical movie starring a bunch of people that we consider to be washed up. I guess. Okay, let's see. So I don't know what we've learned from this episode is you should let twelve year olds decide if they want to live with their fucking mom's murderers sons or not, and also wear a condom.
You fucking loose dicked lunatics in college, pericondom abortions about to be illegal, stop willing ill Yeah.
Actually, so there's someone who's.
Been really trying hard to lure me on Instagram, and I had a couple of drunk nights in Finland that I was like, all right, I'll talk to you. But and I've complained about this in the past, the like quickness that people want to come inside strangers is shocking to me, even like on tender like third messages are like can I come inside you? And it's like you don't even know my last name. That's insane to me. Yeah, that's insane. That's insane that you're with message that you're
willing to just like jizz so freely. Yeah, maybe I could take some screenshots. Wow, I just don't understand it. I just don't understand if the risk involved is really worth it to stop jizzing in people, stop being loose in college, take responsibility. Yeah, stop marrying women that are clear killers.
I mean, yeah, be sexually free, but don't you know, don't fucking uh. And also yeah, I don't know. I feel like this taught me like a little bit more about the adoption process and how difficult it is, which actually leads us into what would sister peg do? Oh wow, look at you. Well, I really didn't even mean to do that, but I know, but that was impressive. You could be on the view honestly with that kind of transition. Have you better watch it?
Oh my god, we haven't seen each other forever. Megan McCain's book was such a flop. That flop, bitch, I was so funny you saw about this. She sold three hundred and twenty two copies of the book like lejo yes, And so then she went to her dad's grave and put the book in front of his grave to help try to sell it. And then I saw a clip online that I reposted that was like someone cut all of the time. She goes my father, my father, my father, my father, And it was over six minutes long.
Like everything is on the back of her father, of her living off of John McCain's name.
Wow.
And I don't even know.
If he was that well liked. It's like, you're moderately liked. Father is who you're name dropping.
I don't like Lisa, that is a floppy yaw. Oh nah, Like I could sell three hundred books.
Oh yeah, I mean just your summer camp friends alone. Yeah, yeah, you'd be able to sell a thousand books.
Well, and our listeners, my summer camp friends, my mom group, yeah, like, and then I take it to the That's messed up people. I bet you guys buy a few copies. I don't know, like, but that's wow. Well listen three, I'm actually going to talk about a book that you should Actually this isn't a book, never mine. I'm going to talk about an article that you should read, not a book. Are what
would Sister Peg do? Segment? Guys, this is every week we tell you an organization, we point you to an article, a book, some kind of resource that can help flesh out what we talked about on today's episode, and we wanted to point you towards this article that's called This is What Nobody Tells You About Adoption by Andrea Ross.
It was for the Huffington Post and as an adopted child herself, Ross discusses the types of trauma that a child can experience when their adoptive parents don't have the tools to help them navigate not only the life they brought into, but the questions surrounding their heritage, and she wants to to reframe the narrative around adoption, which has also been centered around a harmful myth that children have been like quote unquote rescued or saved, and offer a
more nuanced perspective that can be helpful for those who are raising adopted children. And I have friends who are in that process right now, so I know that this affects a lot of people, and it's really oh, it's like very heavy on a lot of sides, and I think this is a great article that will give you
more infos. So it is in our show notes. I can't really read it out to you right now because it involves a lot of backslashes and numbers, but check out our show notes for a link to that, and as always in our Instagram stories called WWSPD.
Yeah, thank you all for always getting involved and learning about things. Now next week we will be doing Legacy and that's season two, episode four.
Watch it on Hulu, Peacock VPN.
Not a stick, or you can visit your local library maybe even you know who knows. But truly a pleasure to have listeners as special as you.
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