Spring Awakening w/ G.K. Umeh

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

These are our stories, done done.

Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. My name is Lisa, my name is Kara, and welcome to our podcast about the greatest television show that has ever been on television, Law and Order SVU. We talk an episode we Talked the True Crimates based on we talked to a special guest. We got a fun one today and first we chat and catch up. And it has been a wild little bit of time since we've talked, because it is.

But what happens is every time, it's like with life, I think of something like, ugh, I gotta talk about it on the intro, and then I don't write it down because I think I'll remember it, and then of course I don't remember it, Like why it's delusion over and over again for decades, like you're not going to remember it.

And just so you guys know, we want to keep things authentic for you. So I will ask Lisa something and she'll be like, let me tell you. On the pod because she wants you guys to hear me react because if she tells me something like overtext or on the phone, like we're not going to repeat it like a reality show on the intro, so that I have to like fake my reaction to it.

Again.

So now this is like truly where we catch up and I have not. Yesterday we recorded for three hours and I couldn't be like, how was your special taping? Like I literally, I mean obviously we checked in about that, but I haven't heard a lot of the details.

Wow, No, there was one wild story and there's like a photo proof, and so I wanted to get your reaction live for the listeners.

And I also literally just yesterday I forgot Sydney posted you walking out on stage four it and I hadn't even seen a full of the outfit. Well yeah, of course she kept being like can I post it? Can

But also I went to Michelle Buteau's taping that like two days later at Radio City, and then the next day we were like catching up on the phone. No big deal, but I was like, how are you feeling? And she goes truly dead inside, I feel nothing. I'm like I felt the same way. Oh my god. Really afterwards, I felt nothing, and everyone obviously wanted to have really kind reactions, and I was just like, truly, I would sit in.

A dark, cold room alone right now.

I need it, Like I don't know what it is, but it felt reassuring that someone else also.

I think it's because you just like gave it all out there and you just had nothing left. How did you feel the day after your wedding?

Hopefully not nothing, but I was just wondering because that's what I related to, because there was like flowers. I don't know, Yes, I well, I cried.

I was so sad it was over because I planned it all myself, like I spent so long working on it. I'm like a bitch when things are over. Rosi's last day of school was yesterday, and I was like crying for her, like, you know, she doesn't even give a shit, and I'm like.

Oh school, oh a bitch that way I thought you like screamed at a teacher.

No no, no, no no no no. Like I was like, like I just I get sad when things are over. I used to cry when my recitals were over, even though I was like gonna do dance again in the fall. Like I just was like always sad when I used to cry when TV shows would end. Every time I watched a series finale, I would like die. I mean, I don't know when things end. I get very I mean that doesn't feel like that's a revolutionary, but I'm

Yeah. Yeah, So I'll tell you the story that I've been waiting to tell you.

So I'm excited.

I put a list of stylists together, I send it to the production company. They each other like this one dude said he wants he's so interested and he wants to make you a custom piece with this designer he works with I. Of course, I've been following this guy for years. I go, I would love to work with him.

So I'm like, literally, my heart is seizing right now. Oh yeah, because I have been talking to you through fitting after fitting, and now I can't I okay, go. So the first thing they bring out a rack.

We go through it while the guy's drawing, and I'm saying what I like, what I don't like. The fact of the matter is this guy he's an archivist. He's not a stylist, and he needs to take it off of his resume. We put him on do not workless all over town at this point, and I'm gonna tag him because he doesn't seem ashamed of his work. I can't wait for you to see this photo. So I am also a procrastinator. I know working with artists like I believe in them and the process, so I just

Are you like at his place of business, like his studio. He's a NEPO.

His mom owns a two story home on the water in Williamsburg. Here we go, there we go. The amount of times he name dropped I Spice and Lena Dunham. I like, I wish I got a dollar for every time he said those two people's names. So there's a photo of my face. At the final fitting, the designer lost all the buttons. Everything is handstitch. The sleeves aren't done, the buttons aren't done. It's not pressed. I keep telling him. I go, my arms are tight. I can't move. They're like,

What are we gonna do? Oh, it doesn't matter, no one we'll see that.

And she takes them aside and has to like fully like punish them, like being like like how you're play on that, and they're like, don't worry, everything will be done. But I'm falling apart my specials. In four days, I have no outfit, nothing is done. He's lost the buttons and they're gaslighting me, and I'm like, what is happening? So the EP hires a stylist Friday night, a different one. I woke up Saturday at six in the morning because

But elevated instead of to costume.

But also she looked at the photos that was showing her and she goes, that's a cheap fabric. That's not real silk. They lied to you. But also, why would you wear that silk for a live performance. You would sweat through it like no actual person would do it. And I don't think they realized the magnitude of this moment. I think they picked other jobs over this one and focused on that. They weren't listening. They did not care, They did not care about me, the show, the client.

Nothing.

For the thousands of dollars that they were getting paid, I could have bought a Versachi outfit. Yeah, okay, So now I'm going to show you the sketch to what I received. Are we gonna be able to post this? Oh yeah, I want to tab that they don't see a stake. Okay, okay, if I'm gonna, oh, they'll be tiktoks. I just this is okay case so you could take your mic off too. So this is sketch to final outfit.

Oh my god, that is completely insane. And then me, this is what I got.

Oh, oh my god, I'm gonna show you the puckering, but you also went to look at the fitting. Look at this, and it's like, this is like Prouday, is like a high school student could do. Like that's in a fashion class.

That's what I was gonna say. I was like, I was gonna say, this looks like something somebody wore when I was in Once Upon a Mattress.

Yea, yeah. Everyone keeps saying it's like what you would wear to, you know, the Wizard's school in Wicked.

And I don't think of you as like a big sweater, but she's right, like even a little bit of like pitt sweat. If you raised your arm, it would have which, by the way, they made it so you couldn't raise your arm. Maybe that was part of the plan. Fuck dude, Okay, we're gonna sorry. This is probably annoying if you're listening. So they made it in twenty four hours.

So Friday they like, is the fitting, Nothing is ready. And then by Saturday night I had a dress and it's like, oh, so we've been doing fittings for over a month. You made this outfit in a day and it looks like shit, we know you didn't go to the special button person. You said you were supposed to go to and basically the designer he's twenty one, like it was the stylus job to keep him on track or find plan B or just.

Work like, get what are you doing?

It was Yeah, honestly, everyone said that I handled it pretty good, and our girl Candace like killed it on hair and makeup.

I felt like so pretty. This is like me on the trial. Oh yeah, your makeup and hair looked gorgeous.

But this is my face at the final fitting, Lisa, this is a blessing, Like thank God, Like nothing sewn, nothing ready, everything handstitched. So what the what the lady got you?

The new woman like was that like that was like ready to wear stuff or she had something made for you. No, there was no way. So right, it was like a Zara top.

The leather jacket was like expensive, and then the skirt was this brand called Aqua. I work out pants from them, and oh yeah, adda is it? They have dresses that blew me that I've cried on and it was blooming yes.

Yeah, But Lise, that either your face you look like you're on the verge of tears.

I mean, you look so down.

But I got to give it to you, because I think I've seen you get more mad at like hotel employees that don't let us check in on top like early. So the fact that somebody could have ruined this moment that you've truly been working for for fifteen years and you only look like that in that photo is actually surprising to me.

Like, no, because I kept saying I had mental breakdowns, and Sydney kept going, you really kept it together.

Julia's like I would be in a all crying and I go.

Yeah, I just trusted the people, and then once Saturday happened, it was just like so calm. But Saturday morning, I was just buying like thousands of dollars of dresses, paying for like expedited shipping, returned all of them obviously.

Yeah, of course, but I just was, oh my god, nervous. I'm like, I can't believe you did not text.

Me about any of that. I don't know well, also no apologies, no knowledgement, and basically did.

You leave it with them where you like, fuck you, I'm not wearing your bullshit on my thing, bye forever.

Yeah, they never reached all the EP because my thing was like I also don't want to pay them and so that's a different thing, Like I don't know if I'll be able to get out.

Of that or not, but you absolutely will not pay them.

Well, I don't know what product, Like, I don't know what if there was a cont like I don't know, but they did not deliver it, so they're dealing with it. But I just didn't want to stress, like I just it was important for me to keep it chill because of me. But then thinking about the two of them day of, they're so chaotic, like like this woman was

They did not care about me. They did not care.

And he chose to do a music video and he made twelve suits for this music video and obviously it's a famous person's music video.

But it's like, you guys chose the wrong thing, like go fuck yourself.

But oh, I'm gonna make a full TikTok, you know the noises where it's like like whatever versus what I got? Yeah, yeah, And I'm gonna tell like if you're not embarrassed, then I'll fully tag you and all of it. How about that you should write what I paid hundreds of dollars for and had five fittings and spent hours of my life collaborating draw on versus what I got. And he made it out like yeah, clear to be like, you know, you're not even paying my full rate and it's like yeah, no.

One is like I don't know what to tell you. But the minute you said NEPO, it all became clear.

But a liar like so his uh, his grandfather is an artist that has a mural at the train stop outside of the MoMA. Wow, but he kept talking about how poor he was. I should have obviously known that's an EPO. Yeah, I don't think.

It's to work.

And then it was just I should have my spidy senses should have gone out sooner.

But I was trusting the process. But thank god.

And then everyone that was there was just such a professional and sooga at their job.

I really was so chill.

I didn't have to think about anything because everyone just nailed it in like such huge ways. And also the director, I don't know if you know Tom sick, I do, Okay, So he moved to Florida. I've never seen someone look hotter after they moved to Florida. He moved to Florida, he got married and had a kid and his family was down there.

So yeah, but he can kind of go anywhere. He just travels.

He's working on an HBO show now, Like it's fine, but everyone wanted to fuck him. It was wild. At the after party, everyone kept being like, who is that? He is married, but I've just never seen Florida give someone a glow up like him.

Wow.

Maybe he just needed a little vitamin D you know, he just needed like a little bit of sun. I was like, damn, fine, that is so fucking funny. That is so funny. I'm so excited. I can't wait. Obviously, everybody keep your ears and eyes and everywhere.

That came and it just felt like, yeah, the two shows were so I know, it was the classic, Like the eight o'clock I got everything I needed, And then ten o'clock was like fun, loose, yeah and fun, and.

You'll just edit together a mix of the of the stuff you need and the loose. Yeah, I'm gonna get the first cut this week.

Ah. And then but I haven't watched the full two hour because that's a nightmare. I'd rather watch the cut and then go back and like see what I need to change. I'm like, I can't watch these blind I mean, I don't watch anything like a man puts out my clips, like I don't want to watch anything.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have to let me watch a cut. I want to watch a cut. Can I watch a cut?

Yeah?

If you want to, I can't. Let me watch one on Adult Flight. So that was like the disaster, and then everything else was just great. You know, our friend mind Tucker was there taking pics and she's great. But also, and I don't know if I should be spreading Michelle's news like that, but it's just hard not to be a straight size because she also is getting a custom look made by a very famous designer I'm not going

Perfect. I literally wrote on her Instagram, like I texted her after a thing and she was like, she said it was good, but like I was like on her Instagram yesterday her hair looked fucking incredible, incredible. You know, I'm a hair girl and I just fucking was like this hair out of this world.

Yeah, but I was like, I can't believe you can be as successful as her be at Radio City and still get fucked over in this weird.

Way, haven't you? And I talked about this many times. Most people are bad at their jobs. Like I think that you're like lucky when you encounter people that are good at their jobs. Like I think a lot of people are bad at their fucking jobs. There's a lot

A good job. Yeah yeah, it was wild. But now at one point though, like after that fitting, we actually looks like on the phone doing the you know, crisis management with EP trying to hire someone new, and I was just like Olivia poping for you, having a drink at the bar, and then we ended up like having some drinks, eating whatever, and then by the end of the night, I was laughing so hard. I was crying on a street corner because it was and yeah, it

But yeah, and it was probably like just a wave of adrenaline, like you were spent after but then by the time you had a little bit of fun with your friends and like loosened up again, you were like, this is the best night of my life, you know.

Yeah, but I was so tired. I went to bed at ten pm that night because I canceled my shows. I had three shows that night. I was like, honestly, I can't even the night after no, that Friday, like it all.

This was like a long Friday. Oh oh, the Friday of the fucking disaster. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. I uh. I was like, oh, I can't, I can't do anything.

I can't.

I was just like, I actually need to just.

Go to bed.

Yeah, and I did.

But you know, it is one of those things where I felt over prepared that I wasn't really stressed.

I'm like, I know these goddamn jokes. I've been doing them for fun.

Yeah yeah, over a.

Decade, yeah yeah, and like it's fine.

Oh and I'd like to make an announcement to everyone that came to the New Orleans shows, thank you so much, obsessed with you. Because of the Saturday ten PM show, the venue is changing their frozen espresso martini recipe because you guys were such menaces, so what congratulations? You were so drunk they had to change the recipe of their in house drink.

What's in it? I mean I had one and I was tipsy, Like it was good. No, It's like there's this place called Alta near NYU, like university place in like tenth or something, okay, and it's like it's delicious. It's like Spanish tapas. They're seeing Angria. I think they put vodka in it, which is like not a Sangria thing. I don't I can't say for sure. If you have two, you're like blacked out and they're so beautiful. They come in like a big tall wineglass and the color is

So I don't know. The recipe.

Could be vodka. I'm extra vodka. Maybe there's grain in their espresso Martini's. That's crazy. I love you making history in New Orleans.

Well because one girl, and I'm sure you're listening, because you told me eight hundred times that you listen to the podcast. But in the middle of the show front row, I'm doing jokes, and she just kept heckling, going, I love your podcast.

I fall asleep to your podcast. Oh my god, that's like very flattering. But guys, time and place like, let's all just take a look around and do a time and place check.

Then her friends were wasted, and then I guess her friends were puking outside of the oh the dumpsters, but the staff of the venue was taking out the trash and they didn't see her there and they accidentally heaved the trash into the puking girl.

Oh my god.

Yeah, what the fuck? What a night? Yeah, this mom daughter duo was out of control. I mean, people were out of control.

I love the mom daughter duos that come to our shows. They're fun. They are fun. My mom could now.

Not when they're wasted we're already at twenty. I saw Spike Lee on my street. I don't know if I already told you that he was scouting. There was all this crew, and then a few days later I saw him again filming, so obviously they were out and about, but he was crossing the street as I was dropping off my laundry and I just smiled really big and gave him a peace sign, and he nodded and smiled. Yeah.

I was really so fun, a little fun little interaction. Yeah he's so little, Yeah he looks he looks like a tiny man. Can you please talk?

I've really talked for so long, but thank you for going on that journey.

Listen, it's been twenty minutes. I wanna we should wrap up and get going to the episode. I do just wanna please say. I do just want to say that I lost a very dear friend of mine last week. And he's somebody who I have talked about on this podcast a lot. His name is Jed. He was my dear friend from third grade. We were both biggest gossip in high school together. He sold merch at our first LA show. He was one of my biggest supporters and

But also just like.

Hug your friends and tell him you love him, because you just never know when you won't be able to anymore. And I don't to bring it down because we had a really funny conversation about your fashion blunder.

But no, and it's not I mean, it's really sad, but I think thinking about Jeed as a person is joyful.

Yes, he was.

Really funny, really like down to gossip, like down to talk shit. He loved TV, he loved pop culture, drag race so much, and he loved you so much. And it was a joy that I got to meet him. Yeah I can text, Yeah, I'm good.

I'm leaving in fifteen minutes basically for the service to fly back home for the service. And do you want to mention the Northwestern Fund And if anybody is interested in making a donation on his behalf. His family is giving money to the Destined Lab, which is at Northwestern where he attended and is very close to where Lisa is from, and it supports programs for students from modest

And and you said that the funeral today er tomorrow will have like a dance party at the end.

Yeah, there's gonna be a big dance party. And they just asked me last night if I could MC the after party, so that will be and are you and I will, And I have to say, it's not the first time ID of a memorial, So I guess I'm available for all of your two afterlife needs.

Well.

One of your friends who when she gets drunk, repeats herself over and over when we were all together once, she just kept praising your memorial MC skills over and over again.

She listens to the pod and she knows who she is. Yeah, but Jed loved SVU. He was always writing me being like I was looking back at our old texts and he was like, what are we doing with Rowlins? I mean, are they bringing her back? Like we had thoughts and opinions, and so I just wanted to give him a big.

Well And the prom photo you posted, I have seen that.

I've heard Jessica mcclin talk baby. We weren't dates. We just took a picture together like that was just my party. Yeah, but yeah, I just I just wanted to give a shout out to Jed and thank you guys for those of you that have like reached out to me about it. I know a lot of you have been sending me messages and comments and stuff, but I appreciate you guys. And now let's get on with the show. We have a great show, we have a great guest, and it's going to be a fun one as usual. That's messed

All right. We're here doing Spring Awakening, which is also a musical, so I do find this weird. Do you have any thoughts about that? Well?

I feel like this is a Warren Light, right or is it not? Yes day it's fifteen, I feel like that's Warren. It's definitely on purpose because that was such a fucking hot musical.

But is there a parallel to the musical? Like maybe I'm not saying I guess there Isn't there an abortion?

You would have to tell me because I actually have never seen Spring Awakening and I don't know a thing about it.

I mean, time is crazy, and I did see this when I was twenty years old, so sixteen years ago I saw Spring Awakening. But I feel like there's an abortion and or baby thing. Maybe that's the connection, or maybe there's no connection, But you're right knowing Warren Light, there's got to be something. So anyone that DM DM okay season fifteen, episode twenty four or twenty three on Hulu. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know

Like he didn't he thought about being a pedophile.

He wanted to be a pedophile, but he didn't actually do anything, so he never got in trouble. I think the.

Episode is literally called thought criminal right, because it's like it's like, can we be arrested just for our fantasies and our thoughts? And it was like I feel like we covered it, no because we want to get that guy.

But why have I talked about it? Or do I just watch it because it is a show I watch. I'm like, no, I've seen it though I've seen it a few times, so what's that? Yeah? But whatever, But the torture room is fucked up, but he's never physically done anything.

But he is a known pedo who admits to it.

But you can't, Like you can't if someone's just thinking about being a pedophile.

I guess there is no law. Thought yeah criminal.

Hello. So anyways, Amorrow walks over and is like, get the fuck out of here, and the pedos like this is a public sidewalk detective fuck off. And so there's a thing and he takes a photo of Amorrow, and that sets Tomorrow off like he's the fucking hulk. He starts beating the shit out of this dude on the ground, continuous punching like the camera's obviously broken, pieces everywhere, and the guy is being taken out on a stretcher with next support and Tomorrow is arrested, hands behind his back,

Poem with the two two diverged.

In a wood, Robert Frost Robert.

I'm like Mark. I was thinking Mark Twain, probably.

Robert. So Pipa Cox is up there and she's working on the end. We all know Pippa Cox. The former guests also helped me get tickets to a Juliet We'll never forget. And I think either just got engaged or married to her girlfriend there was like a people.

There was like people, there was a people there. We do follow her. We're big Pippacocks fans. Yes, congrats Jessica.

Yes. And so she's she's up there working and there's a custody of baby boy Dough And if you remember that episode, it's one of the babies she saved. It was the foster care Russian kid. The mom gave him away to pedophiles. Rosanna arcuts in it and a.

Guy in a wheelchair The Great we covered it like in the last few months. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

So that's the baby Dough and Benson's in the galley watching. She's very connected and it's iconic family Court judge Ruth Linden played by Jane Howdie show. That's a fun I think kudoshell is how you say it, that makes more sense.

And she is so good, like she's in Only Murders in the Building is like her recent I would say, claim to fame. But I saw her in what is that Tony Award winning play? Is it called The Humans? I think it was called The Humans. I saw it in La and she came like the I think most of the Broadway cast came to do it in La and she was She's so excellent.

She's really great. Yeah, I would love to see her on the stage. So she's a up set.

And I saw her in A Dolls House Part two with Laurie metcalf Wow, It's like, I go to so much figure but.

I really don't. Oh, it was so good. I know. Well not only so Laurie Metcalf is in Horace and Pte. But no one got some meeter her because she came on the one Monday, like on a Monday when she was off and filmed this like full thirty to forty minute monologue. The whole episode is just a monologue of her, and I'm just like, I memorizing So I just can't believe memorizing all of that, doing that on your theater day off and then still doing eight more shows of a Doll's House.

She's so tough. I mean, she's like, I think one of our best, she's the best, Like getting that show getting on is like my favorite? Why can't Yeah, she's yeah good.

We're lucky to have hery right, Okay, So, like I said, this episode is gonna have a lot of these moments. There's so many yeah things happening. So anyways, the judge is very upset. I that this is the best we can do for baby boy Dough. And now we cut to tomorrow. He's being mugshotted. He's bleeding from his head. He wants a call, but they're like, you're getting processed. Okay, now we're back in court. Benson approaches Papa Cocks and she wants to visit the baby.

The baby, and Pippa is down with that.

Then Chantal from Social Services takes over and she's wearing a hot pink suit and I feel like she is an enemy because is she not the sho that invests?

Yeah, she's our enemy, and that she's the one that makes Benson's life a living fucking hell when she's like adopting Noah and is always like why aren't you around constantly like you should be available, you should be in this hospital, and it's like, you know what she does, she found this fucking baby, And Okay, I knew that there was an air about her that I hated, and now I know it because she did wear a hot pink suit, but I hate it.

She's like, what's the sergeant's interest in the baby?

You know?

And now we're back to Tomorrow, and finally Tomorrow gets his phone call and we see Rollins arriving. That was his phone call, and they're gripping the bars face to face. This is, you know, a moment, and they're they're planning, don't talk until you're lawyer. What happened? Blah blah blah. There's not privilege now it's Benson shows up with Declan Murphy aka the guy from Grounded for Life aka Donald Loge.

Donald log famously the second baby daddy of Rollins, the second baby daddy.

Honestly, I'm shocked you didn't fuck more people in the precinct like I. But he he is a hothead. He really does flip out. He's really kind of wild. I think we can find out late or he might be bipolar or something, because he does have an air of a little to him. No no offense. Okay, so we do want him on the pod. He's yelling at Tomorrow

That's wild, jam packed jam.

You're right. I never even thought about that.

But this episode is the intersection of like seven different episodes. It's really wild, Like I did not put that even together, but tis yes.

And so now we have a young lawyer in the white blinds room with Tomorrow and he's sitting like a bad boy in detention and they're having a meeting and the iab dude, I could not find him in the IMDb, which I thought was really fucked up.

So maybe you can help me I was searched.

Well. Also I was watching another episode that you're covering later. You know, we were court multiples, you guys, And so I had Peacock with one episode, Hulu with another, and then all my articles out and I was fucking up, Like I was trying to find Jane how to show, but I was looking at a different episode and I was like, what the fuck? And then it happened again with this guy. But I wasn't Spring Awakening. But I can't find the IAB investigator.

I think his name is Michael Potts, is the actor, and that I am. And you know cold Draper, you know what's sick is? I had it purple, I went on it. I went on it. It's purple, am I are we right?

Yeah?

It is him, right. We've seen him before too.

He's been in like, uh, he's working, he is y.

But he he was in above Suspicion. I think he was in a lot of the shit that I had to do with. He no, but in this specific yes, for sure, he's this man works. But yeah, also in many episodes like the above Suspicion, he was part of all the IAB when they were like closing in on the Ganzelle all that shit.

Yeah, okay, So Michael Potts is our man, and he's the IAB guy who's like, bro, there's dozens of witnesses to unis. They like, no, like, and no one thinks that you were defending yourself and that against the victim.

And Amarro flips out.

He's like, that's not a victim, that's a fucking psychopath. And it's like no, no, no, no, you you were off duty. This is serious trouble. Two officers pulled you off an unarmed civilian. You are being charged and they ask with what, and the interviewer turns off the camera and basically is like, assault too, and you better hope you're VIC pulls through. So we're in cornet, which makes me feel like they have his back a little bit. Yeah, Like IAB sucks,

I'm against police brutality, but this guy's fucking like two seconds away from stringing some kid up in his little kill room, like he's got like he hasn't acted yet, but I mean they are intentionally making him the biggest creep ever.

Yeah, one hondo. So we're in court and tomorrow, YadA YadA, raman, what are we gonna do? First time? Not first time? You know, he has shot an unarmed child, the worst cop, the worst cop so sexy. So basically bailo is half a million. That's a lot. And the lawyer is like, hey, can you put your house for collateral? And I think this is so funny. He's like, I can't ask my

You know, we never had to. I don't think he really ever had to put his house up. Kathy would have been pissed.

So the pedophile's wife is really mad and she's like in the galley and she's like, you motherfuckers won't stop wheel you. So Robin's, Benson, and Donnell are having a meeting and nobody is budging on this. They're all they're acting like it's outrageous though, so they're like, sorry, the charges are being pressed and they're like what the fuck, and it's like, come on, guys, and then Finn does his classic pops out of nowhere, pops out of nowhere.

Rollins is like, so did the room service ever come?

And he said no, and they're like, yeah, bro, you were a scam and you were a victim of a scam.

And then it dawns on him and he's quite sad.

And Finn is at the corkboard at the work breaking down the case, and there is surveillance of the elevator and she obviously lied about the room service. There was only one call. No one ever called for help. They went out the stairs. They also have a pick of him from the elevator, but he's hidden fully and there's four cases recently with a similar mom. So donn Alla is like, Okay, let's answer the ad. So he's going undercover.

There's no way.

Yeah. Yeah. And this this actor is.

Canadian, but I think his parents for Irish and so he when he was on Sons of Anarchy, he was I believe you guys can correct me if I'm wrong. I believe he's like the head of like the Irish motorcycle gang that comes over to the United States. Like he always likes to do Irish So that's like he's like showing off his Irish accent here.

I feel, oh yeah, because that's the thing. It was a German tourist. It's always tourists. It's midtown hotels, and so he yeah, he really brings on the Irish and he's ready to play some cop theater everybody. So Rollins is in the lobby on the phone, and we see

I think he's just kind of like, I don't think he wants to just get her. He wants the guy.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And the hopping girl enters and she is from Shameless. Okay, she's Lip's girlfriend. Who is you know, played by Jeremy Allen White and she's amazing.

I think her name is Emma Greenwall. Yeah, so when we were trying to figure out who to get for a guest on this episode. Her name is Emma Greenwall. Yeah, and like she got all this fanfare from being on like Shameless. I cannot find anything from her in the last like four years. Like I think she's she moved abroad. I think she lives in London and she's just kind

But I mean, if this was a scripted series, this is what we would be investigating right now.

I mean, she has no she only has eleven acting credits and they stopped in twenty nineteen, so I don't know. I think she's married and has a kid, and I don't know if she's just like out she does yeahland, Yeah, I know. It's like so shocked. I don't know why. It's like a woman just had a career change, and we're like, what the.

Fuck is going on? What happens? She's like living life, having a good time, and we're like, why isn't she posting more? Something is wrong?

I mean, I bet you she could. She could easily be like after her kid is like more school age, be like I'm back, and I'm sure she's like beautiful and talented. I'm sure she'll get more and.

Very talented because she's a mess. She's a mess in this episode. So then she right away is like, oh, it's an old Pa picture, so she knows what's up as well, and she starts making out with him right away.

He's like, hey, do you want a drink?

She asks if she can order room service, and she makes the call, and then downstairs we see a man in a den in vest and a white tank top with tattoos and a little hat going upstairs and Donald pays pays her, and he's trying to stall and wants it slow and not rushing, and she wants it to like be faster obviously, like get the fuck out of work, and he's like, no, I can pay you for your time.

But also why are you to also like rape these men with a gun, take the take the money and run like what I don't understand. Yeah, he's he's just a bad guy.

Yeah yeah, okay, so but also why does why do they have to take the passport? So cause he's asking wallet passport, no games, Why do you need the passport? Maybe they sell them. I don't know.

Yeah, passports seem like they get flagged. Like I don't know if you can use a fake passport very easily.

I don't know. So he turns to the dresser and Finn opens like a conjoining door room and boom, it hits him. He falls, Finn arrests him, the gunflies pink skirt tries to grab it and Benson goes, you move, I shoot, and she tries to act like out of it, like oh no, I'm a victim, and Benson goes, bitch, you're done. So we're back at the office and little Tino the pimp got a lawyer in a nice suit,

How soon we forget? It is crazy? I mean they are he has.

Done more pro bono, like I he has done nice things for people. Yeah, but he likes to do a few pro bonos every year to keep him an honest lawyer. And then Murphy says oxy moron and then rollins. So he goes to meet with his client and Rollins spins her chair to look at Benson. He goes, he's tall, and Benson walking to her desk says, like, that's a

No, me neither, like, because we always talk about like, I think that's the a guy that understands what she does, A guy that could pay for her to like go to the Bahamas and like have a nice life, you know, and when he knows Noah, he knows Noah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've I thought he's been. I've always thought he'd been. He'd be a wonderful endgame choice.

But is he a bachelor? Is he with people? Or do you think he dates a lot of hotgart Like what's he up to? Trevor Langan?

I don't know if we've ever even gotten like a like a little snippet of him.

You know. No, but I wonder because I like, did he get separate? You know? I just but I want them to end up together. I think that's that's going forward. That's the answer I'm giving to everybody. Yeah, that's my goal for them to end up together. Blended family hanging out or you know, he just stops Noah, But I'm I don't know if Trevor's kids are and he's been on so many episodes. We got to get him, we do,

Just too much.

I don't know how to handle it. He I feel like we have to do him after Olivia. I don't know after Marishka. Yeah, in this weird way.

Yeah, but he like I think he starts out like a dick in his first few seasons and then it's like later in seasons he starts taking on the cute like extra not even cute.

But he does. He did defend you, so it is crazy that she's being so mean and calling him this mouthpiece. So she defended him in season eleven when she was framed for the murder of the biker guy because there is like science where you can copy DNA right right. Someone I was gonna say, did he defend her during the William Lewis stuff?

But that was not I think that it was just Elizabeth. I think Rita Calhoun defends her during the William Lewis shit, but she never gets in there.

Yeah, but it is interesting because like Elliots had to pick lawyers, and he picked CC Pounder Pounder. But I'm just saying, like, in my head, the best lawyers are the ones that they hire.

Yes, the ones they go for.

I don't know.

Ja counter is Carolyn Maddox, Yes, Carolin Maddox. So to me, these are the best of the best. But Elizabeth Marvel, we know is the best because she makes us so mad. But Trevor doesn't make me as mad as the They're like the you know as the oil tycoon hairdoo. And like I wonder if Benson would ever hire Buchanan or something.

No, I don't think she would. Yeah, there's there's so anyways. Okay, so now the lawyer meeting is with tomorrow. The pedal the pedophile is awake. There's no sustained injuries, thank god, but so he'll be fine. But the wife and him are adamant about seeing him be prosecuted. The DA is also gung ho to get him on all charges because they're really trying to crack down on police brutality. And Tomorrow goes, fuck this, this is a pedophile. Why do you love this pedophile? And like he has a fucking

Another person tying in other episodes. The lawyer is Lorenzo d' sapio, who is the guy that Rolin's sister is the law is the lawyer for Kim Rowlins and then she like basically starts a relationship with her because she's a cross Lorenzo. They bring Lorenzo to Sapio back like I love how Like Rawlins is like, I'll get you a lawyer, I'll get you. My sister's shady ass grifter lawyer, and here he is. But damn, because I just I so vividly

Yeah, pretty psycho, but I'm wearing it as we were. So now we bring in the German Man and he identifies Ellie immediately in the lineup, and Trevor's like, to Benson, though, like, you're not seeing Ellie as a victim. She was pimped out at sixteen. Benson says she tried to pull a gun on Murphy and he goes, yeah, because her pimp made her like it is it is uncharacteristic of Benson,

So now the man.

We go back to the lineup and it's the lineup for the pimp. He picks the wrong guy. They do all look very similar, facial hair, bald like gray hoodie, and it sucks. I feel really bad for him, and I hate when the defense attorney in the room in front of the person who just failed the lineup is like, and I'm gonna go get my exonerated client, go fuck yourself. You have to make this rape victim feel worse, like fuck off. So Murphy's like, listen, let's try to see

They all hug itets a really sweet hug.

Murphy wants Benson to talk to Ellie and maybe that will motivate her to talk to Tino.

Okay, yeah, we're bouncing back and forth. Get over it. So from the hug we.

Go back to work and yeah, so they think the baby's gonna motivate Ellie to talk back to the prison yard tomorrow and Unch are chatting. He tells him that his marriage is over and John and then John's like, you need to trust me. I've you know, I've been divorced three times and your marriage is dead and Amarro goes, but my marriage is my life, and Munch goes, Listen, you're always gonna have your daughter, but you shouldn't have to live this way, Like you got to get out

But they're all sing like this is Kraigan when he got framed for the murder of Carissa, Like this isn't a miscarriage of justice.

We've got to get him out of here. And it's like, no, bro, you.

Fucking went off on somebody and beat him to a bloody pulp. It could have been cool to just like one sucker punch, be like he took my photo, he came at me with his camera. He beat the fuck out of this guy. It's really hilarious that they're like, we we gotta help you here, man.

So basically Munch is like, you're a good cop. Wilkes is a bad guy, and he goes, you know, you just fucked up on your but like you fucked up, but your instincts are right, and we're gonna get you out of here. You fight for the victims, and you fight for the survivors. So then and then a surprise,

Ugh.

She used to do business with Tino, so she knows the exact you know, Peto couple, and she's like, oh, yeah, he sold her like a ten year old girl once. And that's the ten year old girl in pigtails that we meet in the episode Oh What a dark, dark, twisted web. And she does not want to go against Tino and because she knows that he'll kill her, and then a classic drop of like again, don't go to

I don't know.

So all hands on deck, tons of guns, swat team, They're all running into the house. Kids everywhere, crying, screaming, pregnant women. And then the mom's trying to hit Fin with a frying pan. I really love her. She is pretty slapstick. And then she and then Benson's like picking up a forty and the mom, Yeah, put down my brew, bitch, And so I really like that, like you're not having your beer, like you're going to jail. Tino is running

It's like I like to crochet and he likes to imagine murdering and molesting children. It's like we just have our things, you know, that's marriage. Like this woman is Delulu town like huge.

Yeah. So Rollins then is like, well, I went into your like husband's chat rooms last night and shows her all these mean things he writes about her, and he writes stuff like, who wants to do my boyish wife? I'd get off on watching you torture her while she begs for her life. She was born to sub and this was all last night, and in the mo like

She's like, I gotta go, I've got a meeting.

Uh wild.

Yeah, So the wife's weighing it out.

So we're at court now with baby Tino and I mean little Tino, and so what will happen? So the mom and him are out on bail, so that's kind of annoying. And then he turns around to stare at Benson in the galley and wait.

I have a question. I have a question. When they got him after the the sting, right when Donald Logue was like proteting, wasn't he out on bail?

Then? Yeah? So like once you fuck up? Like how and then they get got to wear an ankle bracelet. I guess that's why they're letting him go. This judge is a dumb bitch.

It's like, we just keep letting this fucking very violent criminal just keep getting out on bail. It's so wild. This might actually be a plot hole though.

Yeah.

Yeah, because he was out and then they like apprehended him at this illegal daycare. He runs from the cops, evades arrest, and then it's like, oh, okay, bail again, Like I don't it's wild.

Fuck to circumstantial or something whatever. He doesn't have to wear an ankle bracelet. Ellie is really scared, but she's in a nun type home and she's nervous, but she's drinking tea and they're gonna prep her and they're gonna work on getting Noah back, but first it's about staying clean. And Ellie shakes her head and she understands. Benson gets up and says, call me if you need anything, and Ellie says, I'm going to do this and I don't. I don't want to know what to grow up in

Let's fucking go.

The IAB guy then says that your client will still face administrative charges, but no one even cares. But he's like this isn't over and he gets up and leave, so hell yeah, he's not getting punished and he does get to keep his shield. This is crazy. He did beat a man senseless, but also Rolins like we should still arrest the pedophile, Like now you're letting a pedophile go, like this can come back in the future to bite

How can because she blackmailed?

Like he now actually has the freedom to go attack kids or do whatever he wants because there's the blackmail stuff. Oh, because they would say, oh, we were blackmailed, that's why we did that. So this is on rollins if he abuses a child or buys any point or does anything, like yeah, she knew that, she knew that he would download child sex abuse images and now he's just free to like they can't you know what I mean?

Like it is selfish and bad and also what was his the wife said, could you please drop the charges because you said all this embarrassing stuff about me online and I'll leave you or what? Like what what what prompted it? I don't I don't really get the blackmail, I guess either.

You know. Oh yeah, but maybe he knows now not to download anything.

But no, it's the it's freedom for him now, right, But like why did he not go still go after tomorrow? Like he could still go after tomorrow? Like the wife went to him and said, you said all this mean stuff about me online and he.

Was like okay, no, well they have they have evidence that he would like get the stuff, like they like the wife knew. That's why Rollins was like, we both know he's going to download stuff, and the moment he does, I'm gonna arrest him.

Got it because she crack So like.

The moment he does it and downloads this childborn, I will arrest him. And you fucking know he's gonna do it, and she wants to be with her pedophile husband. She loves him.

Oh so okay, So then she convinces him. Okay, yeah, it's the downloading. Okay, got it. I was like, what is the what's the actual threat here that he was mean about his wife on the chat room? But yes, okay, got it.

But you're correct.

I mean, like that is it does put this guy with the upper hand because now he has But what's the proof. Maybe Rollins has no proof because she just went and saw the woman in person, so it would be like he said, she said, she said, she said, if the wife is like, oh, this cop came to me and blackmailed me, says who you know? Who knows? I just hope they arrest him.

Yeah, or we see something in the future like hello, like let's get an episode going. Yeah, So Murphy tells Benson and Rollins and Finn the news and Rollins does some acting skills like wow, I wonder how that happened. So then Benson chases down Murphy to try to fight to make sure he's brought back to SVU, and Murphy's like, fuck that, I'm not wasting a favor on this guy. Okay, Like every favor you give you owe back three times more. I'm not doing it for this lunatic. But then Rodlans

And then nun goes, are you kidding me?

And so a search happens, lights dogs fuck like, and then the little Tino's ankle monitor does show that he was in the area, and they're searching the area and he is back home and claims that he's been home the whole night. But it's like you do have an ankle monitor and they find a burned up body. They show us the burned up body. It's crisp. It is bad, it's really sad, it's awful. A witness heard her screaming there was a bunch of guys. They all kept coming.

Says, like this is weird. This is like a weird fuck up. I get it's like we wrote this character, and we wrote this storyline for Benson, but and then we wanted to get Brooks Shields to be her mom and stuff. But like she says she grew up in foster care and then Trevor says she has no family, Like how is that possible? Like she has a Social Security number, it's easy to find if she has a living relative, you know, so this is a whole to me.

Well, Ellie, but I don't know if Grandma Sheila knew that Noah even existed, Like I wonder if they lost contact, changed name, Like you're right, I wonder I wonder if fuck yeah, I mean Ellie, Like it's one thing to be a runaway.

But it's like if she's in court, like then they would have had to find her real name.

Like she's got a social Like I mean, Brookshields isn't really the real grandmother and she's just a psycho killer Grandma Sheila. Yeah yeah, interesting, Okay, But when that all gets unfolded that like Johnny d is the dad and there's a grandma, like I feel like Benson yells at him and goes, this is your fault. You fucked Yeah, why didn't you find it, so maybe it's more addressed. But maybe he he fucked up. It isn't a writer fuck up. Maybe Trevor fucked up. Yes, possible, possible.

Addiction is tough. Ation is tough.

So then the judge is like, okay, but also like definitely is like this guy's hot, like you can tell she is into him. And then she also notices Benson is there again, and so she's like, okay, Noah Porter will be an orphan of the state unless Benson, you rescue the infant. She says yes, and you know, you're also the only person that's ever taken interest in the kid consistently, and then she suggests, do you want to be the foster mother to this baby? Benson is stunned.

It's like I can put you to four episodes where you don't yeah, and it's not about you.

Like so Benson and Noah sit in the chair and you know, they're cuddling, and it's a really sweet, sweet ending and of course a twisted journey ahead that will you know, we'll get through the whole saga on the pod eventually. But this is not dick wolf baby. It's like a nice sweet and no, there was a burned woman. It is a dick wolf yeah.

Yeah, but this is this is cute because it's like, I love this Noah. I love this little baby. I don't this doesn't look anything like what future Noah grows up to be. I honestly think this kid has brown eyes and the new Noah has light eyes. But whatever, this baby is very cute and I'm here for him.

Thank you.

That was a very entertaining recap. Lease, I have to tell you you had me laugh. You had me laughing today.

Huge.

There is such a fucked episode. Yeah, but I got two crimes to talk about, and one is fucked and one is kind of heartwarming. So at first I researched these opposite and then I was like, no, I'm going to do the fucked up one first and then followed up with the heartwarming so that we have like a nice, you know, palate cleanser before we go into our guests. So Ellie Porter's murder I believe is based on the

I just got so excited because I thought maybe they were into like UFOs or something, and then the reality hit me.

Yeah, sorry, it's unfortunately it's not an ET.

But my green card when I was a kid does say alien on it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. I think that is kind of like a weird a government word. Yeah. And then weapons trafficking, assault, homicide, rape, kidnapping, ID theft, home invasions, carjackings, prostitution, robbery, vandalism, Like there's nothing.

These guys don't do a lot of a lot of different crimes.

Yeah, they're extremely violent, which I think is telegraphed in Little Tino's like very sort of like nihilistic violence where it's like, yeah, fuck it, like I killed somebody, like who can you know? Like they're violent, they're focused on expansion. They recruit a lot of teenagers. So while most women are initiated into this gang through sex, Brenda was like

Who did this?

Like that's like this is the guy who's higher up that they think orchestrated it. And then there was a fourth member of the gang named Oscar Garcia or Alana. I'm not super comfortable with how many gang members are named Oscar in this story, and he was there at the murder, but he didn't participate. He apparently thought they were just going fishing the same way that Brenda did, and when he turned around, he saw them stabbing her and he ran away, and he ended up testifying against

His lawyers argued that, oh.

There's plenty of high up gang members that wanted Brenda dead, like everybody knew she had turned to the police, and like they even played tapes of Rivera using like codd gang slang, like seemingly ordering her death. But the jury did not go for it. So he was convicted of an earlier murder though, and he is serving life in prison, but just not for Brenda, so he is out of but who knows. It sounds like he's getting a lot

Money and who to greenlight.

You know, aka murder. So sixty Minutes also interviewed Cis Naros, who is serving life for Brenda's murder, and he told the police quote MS. Thirteen has rules, you understand, and when you break the rules, we all have to decide if you deserve to die. And he told them that talking to the police is against their rules. He said to sixty minutes, I considered her a friend. She was a gang member. She was a homeboy. That's what we

I didn't.

It's like, you know, I didn't want to do that. But it's like that's the gang. It's I mean, it is like a cult. Gangs are culty in the brainwashing, you know. So sadly, Brenda, you know, I'm glad these two guys got convicted, like they went away for it. Brenda's murder also led one of her best friends to step up to testify against the gang. She was like so horrified that they would kill her pregnant friend. But then when sixty minutes asked this girl, like, what are

End quote. So I hope that.

I hope she's okay, okay somewhere secret. Yeah me too, but like, well I'll just say this too. After the trial, Oscar Garcia or Alana, the one who didn't really do anything but testified, he was facing deportation and was terrified that because he testified, as soon as he got back to El Salvador, he'd be murdered, and his lawyers were fighting to keep him in the States since he testified and helped put these other guys away. I literally searched

And they just weren't.

I don't know, it's not as it feels like in this case, and maybe in real life, who knows, it wasn't as locked up as like we take you to a farm in Wisconsin and you never see anybody you know ever Again, like she was contacting people she knew, and I think that's kind of how she got sucked back in and sadly she just didn't realize that they knew she was working with the cops. So I think that's a little bit of Ellie's murder is based on

We can't even have fucking libraries open on Sundays. I know why they shut it down.

But it happened to fall within the six months that they found this baby and that this all went down. They just said it was like so many little miracles, like piled on top of each other, like oh, this program and this and that.

You know.

So Pete, the partner who didn't find him but you know, raised him as dad, eventually wrote a book called Our Subway Baby that he calls quote a love letter to our son, which I love. It's available in hardcover and ebook and also in a Japanese translation, and I'm linking to it in our sources. And Kevin is grown up and is like twenty, you know, twenty three or four years old now. He graduated from Swarthmore, which is like truly the number one liberal arts college. It's like one

End quote.

So I thought that was like such a sweet story.

I had never heard it before.

And yeah, hopefully Kevin is just like living a great life with his two dads still. But there is in one of my sources a really sweet picture of them, like on a family trip and Kevin's like tall and cute and has these two cool dads and it's great.

So well, and to have like a liberal judge, yeah totally isn't a big it. I don't know. It's just I wonder if family court judges have to be different vibes. But no, because we know about judges that were paid off, but that was just courts maybe it's different. I just I do wonder there was a reason the family court, like certain judges could expedite stuff. I am curious why it ended. Why wouldn't you want to get babies from

They said, like certain cases of abandonment. So it's not like they're just gonna be matching up random kids in the foster system to other parents, you know, It's like it has to be like fully abandoned. No family found like a three month search one on for this woman. But I'm just so glad that it happened during this pilot program because otherwise that kid could have just totally been fed into the system and instead he found this

We get to our guests looking up the book Our Subway Baby, and it's ninety three percent five stars. But I was like, I wonder if the fucking one star one percent or some homophobic fucks I want it and then it was actually like, oh, it wouldn't download on my kindle the font was too small or something like that. So I was like, oh, that's good.

Oh it's like an old person that can't use their kindle.

Yeah, I was. I was relieved. There. I love that. Yeah, damn, we never really get such heartwarming news on this podcast.

But also like, yeah, we gotta be baby. You can leave a baby at a fire station the subway. It worked out. It worked out well, but that's the subway is busy though.

True.

They are going to be found a see.

Fourteenth Street, They're gonna be found. Yeah, that's a busy's that is busy. Yeah, it might be me.

Coming home from coming home from a show.

I wonder how long the baby was even out there.

I know he was he was when they found him. He was like in good health, breathing, you know, like everything he was. You know, I don't think that there was you know, critical care that he needed. But nice story. Okay, let's get into our interview. This is a fun one. Today's guest is an actor and a musician. Multi talented. You've seen him on poker Face, Gossip Girl, and Lights Out. He's also been on SVU four different times, always playing some sort of evil man, but you know him today

Yes, she's well, she's actually a good friend of my sister and brother in law and so okay, she's kind of like over the years of me doing episodes of SVUSH and she's been like, okay, so tell me about this episode and what really happened with SO, and can you tell me is SO and SO going to live?

And I'm like, you know, I can't tell your stuff, you know, before it airs.

And then she mentioned this podcast to me a while back and kind of piqued my curiosity and got me into it. And then as I was looking through, one of the first ones that I saw was an episode you did with an actor named Mark Taulman. Oh yeah, it's actually like a loose friend of mine. But interestingly enough, we have like these multiple intersections career wise because he was.

So he was. He's obviously been on SVU, which is why you got talk to him.

But he did a show for NBC called State of Affairs with Catherine Heigel, and he and I were actually both cast for that because of how similar we look facially. We're both like similar complexion, shaved head. Yeah, except he's like six foot four, so he's you know, like half a head taller than me. But and for the episode, Catherine Heigel, I believe, if I'm not misremembering, her character fell in love with a guy who worked for the

The reason why she goes so hard in the paint.

She's like, I gotta see I gotta save this guy if there's any way we can is because I'm reminding her of her deceased boyfriend, who maybe later in the season turned out not to be the season I don't know. I will confess I did not see the entire seasm, but something along that line. So he and I met and I was like, I think we got cast, because he's like, yeah, I think that's part of why.

Yeah, Oh my gosh, small world. We're also both loose friends with Mark Tallman and I went to high school with Catherine Heigel.

Oh really, that's fine.

Really a lot of connects, a lot of connect You have had all these different parts, like because you were in the episode Educated Guests, where you were like a corrections officer captain, and then you're awakening Yes, yes, who who you know?

Good?

Not the most scrupulous captain.

I love the fact that he tries to pin off his role in the sexual assault that took place as like him just doing research for the job.

Uh.

Which was a very funny moment on the show because they were trying to figure out a way to get the line that I delivered Danny Pino and Richard Belzer in the interrogation room, the late Great Richard Belzer.

The line that I delivered to them.

They rewrote it like five or six different ways because the census kept being like.

It ended up being like below E can I speak freely here.

Yeah, I think so.

It originally it was and I didn't have sex with the It was just head, right, that was the original line, and they were like, no, you can't say that, so they can't say head.

May I mean this is also I think I said.

I think I said it was just a BJ, which like the part about that is like then it was just head sounds like the way that somebody would say it in real life saying it was just a BJ. Like by the third or fourth take, every time we cut, the crew was laughing.

It was like, you know, there's.

Like you're in high school.

I mean, that's such a.

Weird there's just right, there's no way to say that with gravitos, you know, So it became kind of a silly line, but it was fun.

Uh, And that was that was a great episode of work.

That is so fine. You mentioned Richard Belzer and I'm curious how it was to work with him. Then Terrogah like, yeah, what a special.

Guy, Yeah, what what an incredible talent? And uh, I think actually truly, I didn't remember it at the time. So he interrogates me with Danny Pino in the Educated Guest episode where I was kind of like the false bottom back guy, you know, like I'm the bad guy, but not the real bad guy. You got to go through the floor to get to who really did something wrong, which is you know which also interesting that the star of the episode.

Is Natasha Leon.

Yes, and then I saw that you were in an episode of poker Face where you're in her You're in the band with Chloe seven year, which great episode.

So that would be the second time that she sent me to jail so far in my career. But yeah, no, so that was great to get to work with her again. But so on that episode, I got interrogated by Belzer. But then in the Spring Awakening episode, I think that might be the last episode he did because.

It was the last episode of season fifteen.

And that's when like Danny Pino's character has had this whole thing where he up a guy and he was, you know, I ab was coming after him. Yeah, and then Belli actually bails him out, you know he's supposed to be in.

Like, which is wild to me because the bail was half a million dollars and like, even if Belser retired, great invested great to have a loose half million is wild.

If the bail was half a million, he's putting down fifty k, right, Yeah, he's bonding.

Out for tempt Yeah yeah, that's yeah.

And so he bonds out with him and goes the other four fifty If Danny if Amaro's character skips, which you know he's not going.

To right, Okay, So it's a little bit morelosible.

It's still like fifty thousand cats to just be able to I got you, I got.

You, especially a man with that many ex wives, Like he's got to be paying some you know, alimony, I feel like all over town. But so you who knows. Yeah that was He left at the end of fifte of season fifteen, and then he had like a couple of little guests. Spot cameos later, but that was the end of like, you know, bellser as a regular, Munch as a regular.

He was fan.

I didn't realize I was. I was actually looking into it. Is he the same character on Homicide Life on the Street. He was right, He's the only.

Right, he's been the same character on like four or five.

He has the record of playing the same character different show.

Yes, Yes, because I think he did like one episode of X Files where he played much like he's literally playing and I think he's been on The Simpsons and Sesame Street as Munch, like he's done like so many much. He's just everywhere, Yes, Munch forever. But yeah, so you went from being law enforcement to this like real piece.

Of ship.

And then and then you did a more recent episode where you play this like really not bad guy.

Yeah, wait, you're the is he Are you the bad.

Guy at the end of Tommy Baker's hardest.

Fight at the end.

Yeah, I'm the guy that you get to when you go through the false bottom, but I'm a more sympathetic bad guy.

I'm like, oh my god, because I was watching just your scene where you're confessing, not confessing where you're confessing the relationship, and I was like, so sweet they had this hidden relationship.

But I didn't.

I didn't get to the end.

I've only seen that one once. Wow. But you weren't a bad bad like the other guy did the murder, but you were you manipulated and hit the Well.

No, he didn't die. He doesn't die. Oh yes, he lives the hardest fight, you know, but he doesn't die. Uh you know, so it's oh.

Yeah, it is his hardest fight, but not as hard as.

Not the one.

That's what I mean. You're in too many episodes.

But you know what's funny about that is, so I have a daughter who's actually a freshman at UCLA right now.

And oh my god, I started doing SVU.

She was, I guess seven or eight years old at the time, and so, you know, I was, you know, I got this show. It's it's one of the biggest shows. It's a New York institution. It's a big deal me getting on this show. She said, oh, it's great, I can't wait to see it. I was like, you know, probably not going.

To get to watch this one yet, you know.

And so then has she seen it yet?

Well, so then years go by, right, and and I do Little Tino two seasons later or three seasons later, and she's like, oh, you're going back to you great, So now I get to watch this one cause you're a little bit older.

I was like, this one's this one's even right.

And so finally, you know, when I when I did the Field Diaz character, which was two years ago, I think, yep, she's in high school, she's she's young woman. She can handle the subject matter, and she said, Oh, Proby, that's great. You finally get to play a good guy.

I was, like.

Good Red Harry technically a career criminal or corrupt law enforcement officer.

But I'm still not a good guy.

But I feel like I'm echoing ever closer to that neutral portion of.

Yeah, well now you're due for lawyers. Yeah, I got to do for like either a lawyer or like a person somebody, a person who helps victims in some way.

I hope.

So I could see you as a lawyer on that show for sure.

Yeah, I think we'll also, you know, as you age, you get into more of the kind of mature man of a certain age role.

So that's what I'm hoping for.

So this episode, did they bring you in to be Little Tino? So your first like, so tell us about getting stabbed to death or that.

Well, you know, I like to believe that that little Tino didn't actually die. Okay, you know, he survives those goes on, He you know, recuperates his life and becomes a credit to society. I don't know, maybe that's not in the cause for him, but that was you know, that episode was a lot of fun. There was there were a lot of moving parts, there we went that

We got to hop around a bit. Uh.

That episode was donal Log's last episode of the show before he moved on.

I think that's when he went to go do Vikings.

Fantastic actor, such an interesting character as a human being and an incredibly gifted artist as well.

And so he comes in, you know, we're talking for a little bit.

We'd like done the table read where in our rooms there's like a bay where they have all the rooms for the talent, and obviously, you know the series regulars have their kind of wing. But then the special episode guest stars have another side that we were on and as he says, ah, yeah, GK, your last name Ume, I was like yeah, yeah, Ume, And I started to explain the you know, the origins of an.

Amy's like that's Ebo right.

I was like, yes, that is Ebo, which the Ebo is, you know, our nation within Nigeria. That's my my father's people are our tribes, so to speak. And usually, like at best for most Westerners, if they see my last name, they'll say, oh, is that African or they'll maybe even guess West African or Nigerian. But I think that's maybe one of two or three times in my life that somebody who is not of African descent came and said, oh, that's Ebo, isn't it. And I said, as a matter

And it turns out that his parents were involved.

I don't want to mistell his story, but some some sort of like missionary work and they met over there, so he has, like I mean, he's just truly truly a citizen of the world. You know, he like speaks fluent Spanish. He's lived in many different countries, and so we really struck up a conversation and had a lot of fun working with him and just getting to know him. And then he was off to wherever, Scandinavia to shoot Vikings for a season immediately thereafter.

But it was it was a lot of fun.

And then you know, I got to hang out in an interrogation room with Iced Tea, which you know for like for Adolescent GK.

That was like you know that fantasy camp.

Yeah, I mean I was in an interrogation room with Iced Tea, like wrapping his lyrics back.

To him, like you know, yeah, well he did.

But so there's a song that he has on the Power album, which was like huge, huge album of the one of the biggest uh we West Coast hip hop albums of that era, even before n w A and uh there's a songwriter called high Rollers, and I started wrapping the lyrics.

Back to him. He was like, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Uh, actually that's not what that line is.

I was like, he's like a lot of people think that, but it's actually speed of life because the light the line goes speed of life fast.

It's like walking bare of foot over broken glass. But my entire life I thought it was speed of Light.

Yeah, fast, and you think you know speed of life, Comma fast because the rest of the verse everything is like a first part set up in a second part description. That's the way he splits up all the rhyming couplets. And so I hadn't even picked it up because it's one of those things like I memorized it in my adolescent brain and never re evaluated what.

I was actually. Yeah, so that was cool.

So he corrected me on that, and.

We all just kind of had to remember lyrics, like listen to them and memorize them. It's like now Spotify like every song, yeah, I can show you can kind of like you know, but we had to just kind of.

Got down with the album wider notes and run it back and listen to it again.

I'm going to get this song if it kills me.

But your musical right used to do music.

Yeah, I was actually my I came to New York as a musician. I came to New York as an MC and I was rhyming, and I was in live hip hop bands and I was doing MC battles and all of that type of stuff. So iced tea was like fundamental to my development as both a writer and

But you play instruments too, right, I do.

Actually I had to take down some of my guitars because I was getting too much echo in the room. But yeah, so I played, I played guitar, I play bass and sing a rap.

I do all of that.

Oh.

I was just gonna get back a little bit to the episode and talk about Tino's wardrobe. Clock.

They have a lot of a leather vest.

I mean the best. Also, it was we were shooting that in like this time of year. It was because the last episode of season, so we're shooting that in like mid to late May. It was seventy eight eighty five degrees in the street and I'm walking around from my trailer back to set in a leather vest.

I'm like, oh, this is.

And fake tattoos? Right? Uh?

No, I mean did they add tattoos?

Those these are I think that one was actually all my tattoos.

I don't think they Yeah, they might have done like did they do a tear drop?

And I grew you know, I grew out like the chin strapped beard and all that, But I think the tattoos might all been mine on that.

Well, wait, in your episode of poker Face, you're in a band, and are you really playing music with the band in that episode?

So that episode, the guitarist in that band is a guy named John Darnell who's from a very well known band of.

The Mountain Goats I believe is the name of the band.

Oh yeah, and they've toured for like thirty years, like they're all over the world, and he is good friends with Ryan Johnson.

He and his production partner wrote all that music.

So that was all original music written by them, And so I auditioned for that.

That was the like kind of the beginning of the.

Era of of the modern self tape for me and auditioned for that in my kitchen right over there, and they were like, oh, can you also can you actually play bass?

I was like, yeah, I play, babe.

They're like, okay, put yourself on tape plane, you know, just laid down a couple of baselines. So I did it, sent it in and forgot about it. This is my That's like, I'm very superstitious. Like once I've done an audition, I don't talk about it anymore. I don't think about it again. That's how I make peace with myself. And if I hear something, it's a pleasant surprise.

Yeah.

But so I put it out out of side, out of the moon, and definitely more than a month, like six weeks went by and my agency called and my agent at the time, John was like, so, uh yeah, they they're gonna make you an offer for poker Face.

I was like, that's amazing. Spence, which one was po poker Face?

He's like, poker Face, Oh, it's this one and it's Ryan Johnson's the EP.

I was like, oh great, that's amazing.

It's cool.

And so you know, the Caston's gonna get in touch with you. You double check your size card and then.

You had to like do rehearsals and like learn this well.

So then so the.

Check I still don't know, you know, I still don't remember what the show was. I don't remember the audition piece or the size or anything. And they they they, you know, they get touch with me from production. They send me all these details and they're like, cool, and our music supervisor is gonna be get in touch with you. He's gonna send you the sheet music if you want, but he'll get you audio files MP three's and songs

I got it. I can play it for the role. Don't worry.

If that's what you need, I'm your guy. And so I'd like had to learn these songs and then like, as I'm getting further than the process, they're like, oh, well, don't worry because the songwriter he's playing the other member of the band. So if I was like, oh, I really have to learn these songs because otherwise torturing the music of the guy.

Standing next to me. So they went from zero to sixty.

Uh.

Suffice it to say, I spent my entire Memoriality weekend playing bass.

But I got to set on Tuesday and I knew the song, so yeah, I did.

Oh my god, that was a fun episode. And Chloe Savigny also fantastic a svu alum.

Yep yep and and a fantastic talent, and she and Natasha obviously very close as well, so it was like kind of a homecoming for.

Them and it was yeah, a little busties.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That was great.

How was it having all those kids on set? Do you remember it being kind of a madhouse of a ton of twins and parents and like, so what.

They do in instances like that because they're for that shot specifically, there's so many kids, Like, there's not nobody superfluous is even in is on set for that. They shoot that completely separately to make sure that they can have you know, because there's very strict rules as far as like usage, how many you know, how much time you can have a baby on camera on set, et cetera, and going back to their chaperone slash parents, what have you.

So I didn't. I wasn't even in the room for a year. I literally you know, I wish I could.

I wish I could give you some juice there, but I literally, In fact, the way that scene ends there, you know, is Marishika is like search the house, He's here somewhere, right, and so then yeah, and then it cuts to me jumping out of the second story window onto the roof of a truck, down to the ground and running down the.

Gangway behind the house. Right.

So when they were going to shoot that, I was like, you know, I've been working out a lot and I've been doing you know, they had just gotten into snowboarding, and I was doing like a lot more like acrobatic agile stuff. I had studied for a number of years at the USA Shatland Temple down in Chinatown, and I was like feeling I was feeling myself a little bit.

So I was like, you know what, Laurren, I want to do this stunt.

I got this because like, yeah, we got to start the let's let's see how it looks on the day and if you're still feeling that, we'll talk about it. And they had this stunt double who was like a parkour specialist. I wish I could remember his name, Fantastic. I got a picture with him somewhere in my my Instagram, but fantastic guy. We got along really well and said very cool dude. But he had a full head of hair, you know, beautiful hair. And they were like and he's like, yeah,

So you know, I'm feeling better and better I'm looking at it. He's like I'm like so how would you do it? Like what what? What? When you look at this, how would you break down this stunt? He's like, what's two moves.

It's from the little roof of the porch down onto the truck, which is like make an eight foot drop, and then from the truck down to the ground, which is like a nine foot drop, right. And he's like, and I'll probably because it's a confined landing area on the truck, I'm not going to roll. I'll just you know, kind of like take the landing and absorb it and then I'll jump down to the ground, roll out and keep running. It's like, yeah, yeah, okay, that makes sense.

And so so it wasn't even warning.

I think it was the second ad comes over, It's like, do you get what's this? Somebody saying that you wanted to do this stunt? You feel like if you've done parkoup before. I was like, you know, you better, you better tell the stunt guy he needs to shave his heads.

Once I saw that water, I was like, yeah, I'm not kidding.

Yeah, you're gonna like surf right off that Yeah.

And he did it in one tape, oh man, in one take.

And so the shot is he jumps out, he climbs out the window, jumps down off of the porch, jumps down off of the roof of the panel truck that they had coincidentally parked in the.

Driveway, and then he runs up the gangway to this little garage. It's like eight feet tall.

So then I shot that part run down gang way and like starting to climb up on the roof. Then he gets up on that roof, jumps over into an alley and tries to run away.

And doesn't make it, and they they bag him in the alley.

The the other Stunty, who was Kelly Giddish's double for that scene, she has to climb the roof after him, follow him, follow him up across the roof, jump off down behind the roof so they shoot the scene. He does the whole thing one take, she follows him one take. They do it and after the young cut she's like, I think I broke my ankle.

Oh my god, jumped off the roof.

She broke her broke her ankle. She rolled out of frame so as not to interrupt the cut. She didn't make a peep.

And wait until it's a cut to like, yeah, madic, I think I broke my ankle. And I was like, yeah, are some tough motherfuckers. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I was just like I was so odd and I was like, yep, you are, y'all and made her from some different stuff because like having that presence of mind, like I understand being tough and being able to do it. I get that, but also like she was still thinking about the sh shot as she came to the realization that her ankle broke.

God, I wonder if she's broken her ankle like ten times.

She's like whatever was I mean, she's just such a bad as that.

She was like, you know, she's like, yeah, at this job, it's anybody's like, oh my god, I'm so sick. You're like, hey, this is a job. This is what it is. Thank you so much. Did we get it? We got it awesome? You know, And that was it. And that was the take and.

If and I watched it. I watched it today because I was like.

Oh, I remember how this and you could you would never be able to tell, never gave it away.

Do you have something you'd like to plug or anything coming out with you?

You know, I would love to.

I'm actually working on an interactive media project right now, and I'm not allowed to say anything about it. There's an NDA that is ironclad and bulletproof. I think I have literally said as much as I could say without getting in trouble. I hope that saying that I'm working on a non unnamed project doesn't get me in trouble. But uh so, I'm very excited about that, having a lot of fun on it, but I'm not able to speak about it.

Okay, Well, we'll have our po like our listeners follow you on Instain. I'm sure you'll be announcing it on your social channels. Thank you so much for I.

Really appreciate you. It's been a lot of fun.

Oh my god, little Tino, it must be so cool to get to work and then they're like, put on this little vest, get a fedora on your head, Like that seems awesome. I know. The idea of just like.

A really badass like sex trafficker essentially wearing a tiny little vest is so funny to me. Sp you really kills it.

Yeah, you really brought up a great point. Like the pimps are also known for fashion. It's weird.

Yeah, they're like, is there ever just a pimp that's just wearing like a ratty track suit or like do they have to look maybe they have to look good to present a certain image of like how you yeah to each other. I can't believe he had to learn music to be in that episode of poker Face. I mean, I just think it's like you never know the talents of these people that you see on television and what they're doing. I think we all assume that they're just

Well also sometimes like you know, I'm auditioning all the time, but I I rely a lot on my teachers, like I barely prepare and I'm just like trying to. And then I'm like, oh, there's people that are learning music over a weekend. You have to.

Step it up, like there are people really in it. Like when you hear people that are like, well, the character's Italian, So I just like learned a little Italian over the weekend and threw that into my audition and you're like what the fuck? Like, yeah, people, that's how.

I know I'm not a real actor because I'm like less prep for that I can do and get away with it is what I do. And then you hear about these people that are practicing for these auditions for so long.

Yeah, yeah, it's really cool.

Wait did we already talk about hacks in the finale and all of that?

Oh, and I watched it last night and I would love to talk about it and you cry or no, I didn't cry, but I went I went fuck. And I texted Hannah and said that finale fuck, like wow, Like I.

Sent her way to Ernest of a text message that she did not respond to and I'm humiliated.

Well, I sent her text and then I saw her stories and saw that she's literally at a party celebrating her special and was like, sorry, I think you're at a party for your special.

Congrats on that, like and then I.

Just backed out of the text chain, like Homer Simpson into the bush. He just have such a dynamic. It is beautiful to watch. The chemistry is amazing. It's so good.

I was talking to someone because I keep bringing up hap Hacks and they they won't watch it because they auditioned for that part and didn't get it. And I was like, yeah, it wasn't yours to get get over it, like she's perfect.

Yeah, it's like everybody I know in the world auditioned for like the Jamie Lee part in Crashing. It's like you just can't, like, come on, we all went for that. Uh but what was I going to say?

Well, you know, I got offered one audition for that show, and I wrote to the team, I go, I talk way too much about him and I would be a hypocrite, So I'm gonna have to turn this audition down.

Thank you so much, but thank you very much.

But thank you. Oh I mean some sort of integrity, but yeah, I was like, yeah.

One of my friends was like, you'd be so great for this one role on the show, and I go, oh, really, And then when I saw it came out it was Marissa Janet Winnaker or whatever the like Broadway girl. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, think they gave it to someone else. But what was I going to say?

Oh, speaking of Broadway, we got yelled at for not bringing up Aaron Villette right to fight.

Yeah is that at a live.

Show, because I don't think we've done an episode he's in.

But I was just watching Svie because that's what we like.

Yeah, And I was watching Personal Fouls and then I saw this guy and I went, this is one of the hottest people I've ever seen in my life. And then I googled it and it's Eron Viette. And now I understand why everyone was mad that we didn't talk about him, because he is the hottest person ever.

And what's hilarious is like, when we do our live show, don't I say that I can't memorize his face.

Oh, I think, I'm like, this is.

This guy that everybody's obsessed with. I can't memorize his face, like I just can't remember him, like he won't stick in my brain.

No, I got giddy and I followed him immediately. I was like, I guess I'm going to a Broadway show. I like, obviously he has a beautiful wife. But yeah, yeah, I the listeners were right, yeah, hi. Wait And another thing that listeners.

Another thing listeners just pointed out to us that I would like to do a clarification on when we did last week or two weeks AGO's episode Possessed and we talked.

About buzz from home alone.

We do not google every single person that is in an episode of s View that we're covering. I look up their IMDb sometimes I see if they're still working. I did not google him, and I did not realize that he is like under there's an investigation into domestic abuse for him or something like that. And I just I apologize, like, we just cannot. I cannot. I do not have the time to do that kind of vetting

Know, like I guess from now on, any man we talk about we have to see if they're a criminal or not, like do you beat your wife? I mean, who we have, We're gonna.

Have to hire a special Google assistant to google every man that we ever talk about on the show and go let us know if there's ever been an allegation or currently because it's simply man or bear, guys man or Bear, Oh my god, the manor Bear. So let should we get into I mean, this was a this was a wild episode. We are like just to get finished up our post mortem here. We are going to cover more of the whole like Johnny d Little Tino

I'm like, we're so focused on the burning and the gang, but that one was that was really it.

Was a little bit of likeness.

Yeah, and next week we will be doing Infiltraded season eight, episode six, so watch that be with us.

We're obsessed with all of you and say hi when we see you.

Yeah, love you guys. See you next week. I get texts later and I'm like, I need a heads up so I can not look as insane in soul Cycle. Thank you.

Bye.

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